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Apple Announces iLife '11, FaceTime Mac, Lion, Mac App Store, MacBook Air
Apple once again streamed their latest keynote where they unveiled iLife '11 (more fullscreen and Facebook in iPhoto, Audio editing and automatic trailers in iMovie, Rhythm correction and lessons in Garage Band). FaceTime for the Mac will connect video chat to phones with a Beta starting today. Next we get a preview of OS X Lion which will have an App Store and new UI bits shipping this summer. The Mac App Store will launch on Snow Leopard in 90 days. The New MacBook Air is under 3lbs, 13.3" screen, Core 2 Duo, solid state only storage. There's also an 11.6" version starting at $999 with 64gb of storage shipping today.
It gets rid of a lot of developer headaches, including finding a place with high bandwidth mirrors for consumers to download and fetch updates.
Yes, Apple gets a 30% chunk, but IMHO, it is a good thing to have long term.
Will the app store have the same lock down?
With no apps that can use plug ins?
No games with user maps or mods?
No sex apps?
No fat app?
$99 year fee even for free apps?
fixed price points?
will you be able to buy app and use it on all systems you own? will app dev be able to have app that you need to buy per system?
can apple pull a app at any time?
Will there be a max app size?
As Ron Gilbert just put it
"For you Apple apologists claiming Apple will never lock down the Mac, step one is in place and you all let it happen."
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Linux does it, but it sure as hell isn't better.
I am interested about the App Store coming to the desktop now.
Any hardware news?
I tried to RTFA in this story, but I couldn't find it. Is it that hard to include a link to a source?
more fullscreen and Facebook in iPhoto, Audio editing and automatic trailers in iMovie, Rhythm correction and lessons in Garage Band
Why can't all this functionality be available through one integrated program instead of being fragmented over many sources?! The end user will get confused!
I mean, App Store for iPhone / iPod touch? I get that. It's basically the first of its kind and creates its own market share. Apps which would have been trivial and/or freeware for a desktop could be sold to mobile users if they were good or early to market enough. Kinds of apps that would be made wholly useless given a full-size-screen web browser and a keyboard could have a market, too.
But for the Mac? When roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?
They are *not* locking down OSX. You will still be able to get apps anywhere you want.
Gone!
Actually, it's worse than lame as they're now locking down Mac OSX just like they do with iOS.
You mean except for the fact that it was explicitly stated that the app store wasn't the exclusive place to get apps for Mac OS X? How can it be locked down when nothing has changed beyond having a new source for downloading apps from?
I'm interested in seeing some of the apps on the Mac -- there are quite a few that do one very useful job very well. So I welcome the chance to use these under OS X.
And no, I'm not one of the trolls that somehow believes that traditional apps will be restricted under OS X. I don't even see how you could think that traditional apps could be delivered via an App Store-like interface, or that traditional software on the Mac will be uprooted for the App Store. There will always be apps too fat for an iDevice, which require a non-touch interface etc, and I don't see those going away ever.
Unless the prices fall suddenly, the new Macbooks just found a new reason to be more expensive than ever: SS drives.
Carl Sagan quotes get you an automatic +5 on all posts.
Correction: they're not doing it now. Wait a few years. Just like Microsoft with its Xbox - ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Here's a question: if you put an app exclusively in the app store, will it be uninstallable via other methods (i.e. - can you hack the package to manually/locally install)? Would this / could this be a piracy reduction vector for software developers on the mac, and is the 30% fee (brilliant, btw, Jobs) enough enticement for small to mid-sized developers to go exclusively with app-store sales? Is there even a pirate market for apple application?
It looks more like a way for Apple to get a bigger piece of the pie. That's a well played move, in an evil corporate genius kind of way.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I know that every other comment under the sun here is going to focus on the app store and DRM concerns, but I'm also somewhat concerned about the fact that CPU speeds on these new Macbook Airs seem to be... rather pathetic. C2D 1.4 and 1.86 Ghz processors? Is Xcode really that much better at leveraging the GPU, to where they can release something like this when announcing Lion and its new features that sound like they're going to brutalize processing power. With CPU speeds like these, it almost seems like they just didn't want to say the word 'Atom'.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Linux repositories are a general purpose mechanism; you can point at any "app store" you like with them. Furthermore, they do extensive dependency management and checking.
Apple's App Store gives you one source of applications and it doesn't seem to do much in the way of dependency management.
Apple clearly got the idea from Linux distributions and other commercial vendors, but they are misusing the idea to lock down their machines.
And for a huge number of consumers, they'll be quite happy with the locked down device with Apple as gatekeeper. They'll have everything they need or want, will pay a bit extra for that, and won't even notice the /. crowd wailing and gnashing its collective teeth over Jobs' "war on openness".
When will /. readers acknowledge that they're not the entire fucking market for computing devices?
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
I'm a little disappointed that they're saying that they're sticking with track-pad and mouse input verses touch-screen because "touch screen doesn't work well in front of the user".
It's true that you wouldn't want to reach out and touch your monitor in order to navigate, but I often find myself printing things out so I can work with them directly. My brother has an app on his iPad that he can use like a remote control for his mac mini (which he has plugged into his TV) it basically turns his iPad into a track-pad for his TV. I can imagine a way to use your display as just that (a window to look at information) while using an iPad like device to do work or select information for viewing on the display and navigate on the display if there's 3D or video content. I'd really like to see someone bring multitouch (on a touch-screen) to the desktop, I think it would be a lot easier to work with.
Because some people hate Apple and everything Apple does, even when it is exactly what they've been wanting and calling for. When Apple creates what they want, controlled by Apple, it is immediately called draconian and evil ... because Apple did it.
That's why.
I've seen people suggest that Apple do something, then in the very same breath say that even if Apple did what they asked for, they would never use it, because it is Apple. Go figure.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I am no Mac fan and I will never use this, but Steve Jobs has decided that there are enough users that want or don't care if they are locked down and tied to an ecosystem, as long as that ecosystem is easy enough for them to use.
So Apple will make a heck of a lot of money on this sort of thing from the type of people who want it.
For the rest of us, it gives us a great excuse to say "I know nothing about Apple products" when grandma or the nieces/nephews need help with their iProducts.
That new MacBook Air... imagine that with the Netbook edition of Ubuntu on it. Mmmmm.
They just released the hybrid device (MacBook Air) that will eventually replace all consumer devices with built-in DRM. Steve will have no incentive to allow you to buy any software outside of the App Store, since he gets a 30% cut.
No, seriously guys. You already consented. He's going to stick it all the way in.
I think people like you _want_ Apple to become some evil company because you dislike something else about the company or its users.
No, seriously guy. No one consented to anything. It's a product announcement and evil DRM wasn't part of it.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
Because we're fucking pissed that corporations keep trying to pull this shit on people.
They don't need lock down for ANYTHING except to forcibly herd people through their stores. They don't need it for security, they don't need it for clean integration. It's purely for the purposes of monetization.
If there were even the inkling that the groups pushing this shit (in any company) were going to offer an easy means of disabling this for power users, I don't think there would be complaints. But they don't. And they want to push it far and wide, and make getting out from under it a pain in the ass.
Personally, I don't think there should be any threshold I should have to cross to use my property to the fullest. Even if no one else uses it, even if they aren't aware of it. The opportunity should be there no matter what.
So go ahead and defend Apple's behavior, until Intel, Microsoft, and the like go and try to push this shit industry wide and then since you are a tiny part of the market they ignore you completely.
+1 insightful. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. You may be surprised however at the number of people who will.
The DRM will be in the new operating system that replaces it. iOS 5, probably.
Apple can keep all of their promises, and you'll still get fucked. One Vendor; One Master. There is no apologizing your way out of it.
Then RMS rides in on his gnu brandishing his katana and saves the day.
</nerdgasm>
You can call the new Macbook Air many thing but boring is not one of them. You'd have to be very thick or very biased not to see the difference between the Air and a netbook. Lets start with an aluminum unibody, hi res screen, full size keyboard and multitouch trackpad. Then there is the 7 hours of real world battery life. This thing is a work of art.
makes you think if apple will intel video in the next mini and other low end system when core2 is gone.
apple likes to drop speeds and more to fit in the supper thin case and that why you have a $700+ desktop with a old laptop core2 cpu and on board video.
They just released the hybrid device (MacBook Air)
What's "hybrid" about it? (No, you can't cite any Lion features as evidence that it's a "hybrid" device; as El Jobso said, you can buy it now, and Lion isn't available now, so it'll ship with Snow Leopard.)
Correction: they're not doing it now. Wait a few years. Just like Microsoft with its Xbox - ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.
I don't get the XBox comparison. The XBox was never open. There was a time when MS didn't do much to stop people from modding them, but those individuals were still breaching their end-user agreements and voiding their warranties.
Furthermore, the XBox is just a media device. Of course it has no business applications, but little Suzy still can't do her homework on one so it's not much of a PC either. I don't own one, but last time I checked it doesn't even have a web browser. The only computers the XBox competes with are useless Alienware junk and other 'gamer' computers, and then it's still lacking in functionality (which makes sense, there's a huge price difference).
You're comparing apples and oranges. Microsoft doesn't want you to replace your PC with an XBox, they want you to own a PC _and_ an XBox. Similarly, Apple doesn't want you to have just one of their devices: they want you to own an Apple TV for media, a MacBook for mobile computing, an iPad for reading and casual browsing, and an iMac as the central computing hub. Oh, and an iPhone for a phone.
I don't see MS or Apple locking down Windows/OS X in a similar manner to iOS. Consumers don't want that so it's really not an option for them.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
Check out the software reinstall drive included with the Air.
http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html
A USB stick with the OS on it? Kind of handy - I wish more software developers would distribute large quantity data this way. The Adobe suites and various large content video games come to mind.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Oooh ooh, I can play that game too!
Apple is not currently murdering small children. Wait a few years.
Sounds sinister, doesn't it?
# (/.);;
- : float -> float -> float =
No other details on 10.7 ?
What about a new filesystem? What about full 64-bit GUI? what about a fine new finder? what about hardware support?
Man, technical news is really thin on the ground. Only one version ago we had plenty of nitty-gritty details about Unix and Enterprise-class OS features. Instead now we have demos of music lessons. This is terrible.
Err, except that your example is exceedingly hyperbolic.
Apple is shipping systems that are locked down now. There is no reason to believe they won't try and push that up the stack if they feel users will accept it.
But people will keep defending Apple until it's too late, and they start asking $500+ for developer licenses.
Except competition from Linux and Microsoft... I mean, if people really want a DRM-free platform they'll demand it and flee to it in droves, right?
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Just like Microsoft with its Xbox - ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers...
..what?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
You mean the free market that kept them from locking down the iPhone and iPad?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
There is no reason to believe they won't try and push that up the stack if they feel users will accept it.
There isn't?
Take that slippery slope bullshit somewhere else. This is Slashdot and Logic 101 is a required class for most tech degrees.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html shows the OSX re-install disk as a USB thumb drive!
http://images.apple.com/macbookair/images/specs_flashdrive_20101020.jpg
DiscDividers tabbed plastic CD dividers: divider cards f
I don't see Apple removing the ability to run non-AppStore Apps
Just like many of us didn't see Microsoft removing the ability to run non-store apps from Windows Mobile until Microsoft announced Windows Phone 7.
What now? The new Airs aren't much different than what was out yesterday -- the only differences are a new case, a higher-resolution screen, some updated specs, stereo speakers, on-board Flash, the same trackpad as the rest of the Macbook line, a smaller version, etc. Its still an OSX laptop, nothing 'hybridized' about it. There's no more DRM in the new Air than in any other MacBook. Nothing has changed in that regard.
Second, Steve said you could still get software from other sources. It would be platform suicide to do anything else. They're just trying to make it more convenient for developers and users. I'm personally curious to look at the terms and see if open source software can be distributed using it -- in those cases it could basically be a repository just like on any Linux distro.
Finally, I haven't consented to anything like that. If OS X Lion were to implement the changes you seem to think exist, I would stick with Snow Leopard. If the changes were made retroactive and made it difficult to use old versions somehow, I could install Ubuntu. The Mac platform suits my needs for now (a Unix platform with nice laptop hardware integration) -- its not actually a cult, so I can re-evaluate my options at any time.
Quit the FUD.
The iPhone with its iOS is Apple's XBox. The main difference is that the XBox is Microsoft's last hope for finding a market with growth, while the iPhone is Apple's license to print money. Both companies, however, are keenly aware that the future is appliance computing, and that there is very little profit in providing business- or superuser-class computing environment.
Here's where the similarity is: both companies know that the biggest profit margins and the biggest potential for growth come from the appliance model. Microsoft will continue to expand the XBox to provide an appliance-like experience, and Apple will push its iOS features into all of its consumer products. The endgame is the same for both companies. And Sony, by the way.
Some people can't see a few years down the road, but that's their shortcoming.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
No, seriously guy. No one consented to anything. It's a product announcement and evil DRM wasn't part of it.
Lion doesn't have DRM, huh? Well, that's one way to ignore reality. Good luck with that.
I can still install the development tools so that I can build and install standard Unix software and use XCode to build Mac software.
The fear is that Apple will start charging $99 per year to use XCode.
I can still install Eclipse when I want a different development environment (basically when I'm not developing Cocoa-based apps.)
The fear is that Apple will start charging $99 per year to use XCode so that you can compile, install, and run your own copy of Eclipse.
And I can still install apps in any of the ways that I've always done...whether that be by MacPorts, Fink or the traditional application installation methods (dragging the .app to Applications or installing the .pkg.)
The fear is that Mac OS Xi will require mandatory verification of digital signatures in the same way that iOS already does, blocking MacPorts, Fink, and drag and drop.
...planes, too.
And how come beds don't get 20% bigger each year?
It must be some sort of conspiracy.
even if Apple never locks down the mac, the mere presence of the App store will force developers to get on the store, after all how can you compete with that much exposure and convenience? Joining the app store is survival, then it's more power to Apple, which is not a good thing.
Apple gets a 30% chunk, but IMHO, it is a good thing to have long term.
Wow, and people talk about the "Microsoft tax".
Getting 70% is a developer fantasy. By the time you find a publisher, and they sell to a distributor, who then sells it to a retail store ... a developer is lucky to get 15% to 20%. Digital distribution is a game changer. For a small developer implementing an online store with support and returns, paying for international payment processing, bandwidth, etc is non-trivial. If that adds up to less than 30% then the difference may easily be justified by the increased traffic and exposure of a high profile site like one provided by Apple. Unless you are a large corporation Apple's deal is not bad at all.
I think Linus will include DRM in the next kernel.
Bad analogy: That's not baseless. In addition, there's already DRM in the standard Linux kernel.
In the highly unlikely even that you are correct (they would literally have to rewrite OSX from the ground up to make it into the kind of locked sown system you're talking about)
Not exactly. Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) and later is already capable of checking the signature of an executable to know whether elevated privileges granted to an old version of an app should propagate to the new version of the same app. (See Code Signing Guide.) Currently, it works on a key continuity management basis: privileges from one version of an app propagate to another version if and only if they are signed with the same key. But this infrastructure could easily implement a policy to deny execution if the CA chain doesn't go up to Apple.
then I won't buy it. Problem solved.
Then what would you buy instead? I'm a fan of small form factor; what make and model of PC running Windows or Linux do you recommend to replace a Mac mini?
I was expecting Microsoft to bring out an OfficeBox, quite some time ago.
Basically an xBox 360 minus the 3D graphics. With a really tiny hard drive, Office and Active Directory integration. Keyboard and mouse instead of a controller.
I still think it would be a winner.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
iLife $49.00, down from $79.00. SuperDrive $20.00 cheaper.
No, seriously guy. No one consented to anything. It's a product announcement and evil DRM wasn't part of it.
Lion doesn't have DRM, huh? Well, that's one way to ignore reality. Good luck with that.
I'm ignoring the citation you didn't provide.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
Microsoft started the Xbox completely locked down, just like the iOS devices. Xbox will never be a viable desktop. That doesn't even make sense. The closest parallel is iTV, which sells for $100, is locked down, and is also really not a desktop.
Apple's biggest problem with Mac adoption (besides everyone running Windows on their Macs), is the lack of software. Attempting to lock down the platform would decimate the software availability. Further, you can't develop software on a locked platform, which would push their developers onto Windows systems.
They can't even DRM a song. Realistically, DRM'ing an entire operating system, which already exists and is up and running, is much, much harder.
The ______ Agenda
that takes photoshop and other pro apps out.
also how many dev's will like a office buying a app one time and useing it on like 30+ systems?
Further, you can't develop software on a locked platform, which would push their developers onto Windows systems.
No, it'd get people to buy unlocking keys for $99 per year, just as they currently do in the iPhone developer program and XNA Creators Club.
It has the App Store. How are they going to provide an iPad like app store without iPad like DRM?
And along the way, Apple is taking some of the most successful parts of iOS, like the App Store—with automatic installation of applications—and the springboard—rechristened launchpad in Lion.
http://gizmodo.com/5668805/
The words are right there. All you have to do is read them.
3x the price of a netbook. - Apple care means it will last 3 times as long as a netbook
3X more useful - for me, the full size keyboard makes it worth it.
3x less likely to break like a netbook. - I bought one last year, it is already falling apart.
It is now time to replace the Macbook Pro.
Obviously, your children don't work at Foxconn.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
How so?
Also, who provides better engineered hardware than Apple?
Who provides a better all-around OS than Apple? (I like Linux too, but lets not kid ourselves, it's not there yet. Then look at all of Apple's great software - iLife, Logic, Final Cut, Aperture, Shake, ect. ect. ect.)
Furthermore, to this day MS continues its embrace, extend, extinguish policy. What has Apple done that is worse than MS's OOXML shenanigans, 100% defective rate on early XB360s, or using SCO to attack Linux? Apple has never stooped so low with Jobs at the helm.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
Where are the screenshots? Where are the reviews? See, both sides can play that game. I think that future package managers are going to have to include a lot more metadata to be as friendly as the app store.
He is not your guy, buddy.
Correction: they're not doing it now. Wait a few years. Just like Microsoft with its Xbox - ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.
I think to conjecture this is FUD. Maybe Apple will, but until then, I reject your FUD and replace it with my own reality.
There are many reasons why Apple would NOT want to do this, especially considering that there are a substantial number of Apple users that would _not_ want this to be the only method of getting new apps.
Where is the quality control? It sucks pretty bad when you are on limited bandwidth plan and you just wasted 1.8gb on a POS bit of software. Not everybody lived in a county where you can just download anything and everything and sort it out later.
Quality control? Are you kidding? You speak as if none of the rest of us have any access to these technologies you would like to completely misrepresent. The Apple App Store does NOTHING AT ALL for quality control. You have to sort through the dreck just as if it were being sold by Frys or Amazon.
On the other hand, Linux package managers provide very nice dependency management and applications have hooks to take advantage of this. Instead of hunting down Perian yourself and finding out that there are things missing from it and some of them are even payware, the Linux equivalent just sorts out stuff automagically and gets on with business.
Replacing Simtel and Ice Walkers and Amazon isn't terribly interesting.
The main thing this allows for is greater control by Apple.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If there were even the inkling that the groups pushing this shit (in any company) were going to offer an easy means of disabling this for power users, I don't think there would be complaints. But they don't. And they want to push it far and wide, and make getting out from under it a pain in the ass.
They said that they would let you disable the Mac lockdown in the exact same paragraph where they described the Mac lockdown. Obviously, you didn't bother reading it.
Because some people hate Apple and everything Apple does, even when it is exactly what they've been wanting and calling for. When Apple creates what they want, controlled by Apple, it is immediately called draconian and evil ... because Apple did it.
That's why.
I've seen people suggest that Apple do something, then in the very same breath say that even if Apple did what they asked for, they would never use it, because it is Apple. Go figure.
No. Some people worry that Apple is out to destroy the computing experience and become a monopoly.
If Apple destroys MacOS as a real alternate platform then the market in general suffers a considerable loss.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Because some people hate Apple and everything Apple does, even when it is exactly what they've been wanting and calling for. When Apple creates what they want, controlled by Apple, it is immediately called draconian and evil ... because Apple did it.
That's why.
I've seen people suggest that Apple do something, then in the very same breath say that even if Apple did what they asked for, they would never use it, because it is Apple. Go figure.
I find it a weak argument that people hate Apple as a defense. Apple as a company gets an inordinate amount of free positive press. Maybe just maybe your sig of "People are dumb" is simply not as true as it used to be in the internet age, DRM is an example of people being more informed, and something the people simply do not want. I am seeing Apples "Walled Garden" going the same way.
My car has a computer in it but I'm not concerned that it only runs specific preinstalled software. Just because a device has a microchip and computes in binary doesn't mean that it's a PC. A lot of people buy PCs to do very limited things and now they're discovering that they can do these same things on a phone, iPad, or a Playstation. They may not need a PC now that these products are available.
But in no way does that mean that NO ONE needs PCs. There is such a wide variety of uses for a PC that to lock one down 100% automatically limits the user base. Scientists aren't going to do work on an iPad. But they do do work on Mac Pros and XServes and there is no way that iOS will work for their needs.
It's basic economics. There's no indication that the demand for non-locked down computers is going away, so there's no reason to suspect as much. Do you really think that MS and Apple are going to hand over the entire market of open-PCs to Linux? So what if a market for locked-down computers is becoming big? This is a situation where Apple and MS have to either cater to both markets or be replaced in one or the other.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
ZFS had some licensing issues, but that was under Sun. Now that Sun == Oracle, and Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs are friends, apparently, maybe a deal can be reached.
I was pretty excited when I heard that Apple was releasing a new 12-ish inch laptop.
Back in the day, my 12" Powerbook was a full-featured, state-of-the-art machine crammed into a teeny-tiny lightweight chassis that also happened to have great battery life. I still own one, and use it regularly -- it's an absolutely fantastic, and very capable little machine; arguably the best small laptop ever produced.
5 years later, it's back, and.....the processor has a lower clock speed, there's less built-in storage, fewer ports (no Ethernet!), no optical drive, and the standard amount of RAM is barely sufficient for a modern OS. The battery is only (barely) better, and can't even begin to compete with the truly awesome battery life on the MacBook Pro line.
Yes, I get that it's thinner, lighter, and that the loss of the Firewire port and optical drive are not exactly a dealbreaker today. And although the Core2Duo is indeed a better processor than a G4, it's also not anywhere remotely near state-of-the-art, and 1.4GHz is the slowest-clocked machine I've ever seen to carry that architecture.
Good design is a very big deal in laptops for portability, durability, and usability, which is why I've been buying from Apple for so long. They have virtually no competition in this regard. However, the tech specs keep slipping further and further, and I'm finding it difficult to take Apple seriously as a hardware manufacturer. The 13" Macbook Pro is a beautiful machine, but is similarly anemic in terms of performance and features. I also own a Mac Mini, the current lineup of which is inexcusably overpriced and underpowered. Apple's also gotten into the habit of putting incredibly low memory caps on their machines. The new Airs go up to 4GB, which is adequate for today, but definitely not the future. My 2006 Mac Mini maxes out at 2GB, which is killing the performance of an otherwise great machine.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I was looking forward for the new iLife, but nothing essential for the first time since they released the first version. I only use iPhoto anyway, but am now seriously considering getting Aperture instead.
Steve seems to be in bad shape, I did not feel the RDF, not even once.
"Civis Europaeus sum!"
Seriously? Troll?
Someone posts an inflammatory, unsubstantiated statement and is modded insightful. Someone asks for proof, and that's trolling?!
What. The. Fuck.
Where are the screenshots? Where are the reviews? See, both sides can play that game. I think that future package managers are going to have to include a lot more metadata to be as friendly as the app store.
Synaptic and Ubuntu Software Center include screenshots when available. But yeah - no reviews. I want to say there used to be a popularity counter in Ubuntu's tool but I don't see one now.
I've got mixed feelings on the usefulness of these features. On one hand, they're nice to have and sometimes saves me a trip to Google to decide which software I want to try first or whether it's even what I expect it to be. On the other hand, I find that most reviews are pretty inane in Adroid's Market; the more general-audience the app, the less helpful the reviews. I check reviews out for manual updates to see if people are complaining about the latest release breaking something. But in general, I turn to Google and mine blogs and forums for opinions before turning to app reviews from the masses.
It has the App Store.
So will Snow Leopard. (Yes, El Jobso said that the App Store would be available before Lion came out.)
How are they going to provide an iPad like app store without iPad like DRM?
How is anybody able to sell apps for Mac OS X without iOS-like DRM? What parts of "automatic installation of applications" requires iOS-like DRM?
What free market? Cell phones? Surely you jest. The cell phone market was and still is *entirely* controlled by the approval of the telcos that provide cell service. You can't usefully sell products in that space without getting sign off from the telcos, so in effect, a small oligopoly in each country gets to dictate what devices can and can't do.
When regular computer ISPs become more fascist than Mussolini's wildest wet dream, you might have a point. Until then, the two markets are not comparable.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
The app store will, yes, but Steve specifically stated that the app store will not be the only place you can buy Mac software. So, they get to choose what they're selling, and you get to choose where and what you buy.
When will /. readers acknowledge that they're not the entire fucking market for computing devices?
I acknowledge that I am not "the entire fucking market for computing devices." But then, that a market exists doesn't counter all arguments. Lots of people believe there's a Nigerian prince that desperately needs their help. Even more are oblivious to their desktop being a participant in bot net turf wars while feeding the constant traffic of spam. It's not me. But there are plenty of other people who are not me.
I should admit that I picked weighted examples; its a pretty safe bet that nobody is pro-scam or pro-botnet. I was going to pick on the Zune and iPod but that just gets the Zune and iPod fans all riled up. And besides, I've bought iPods as gifts before (nobody has wanted a Zune :P). I thought my wife's iPod was nice and she's been really happy with it. I warned her about the Apple store and DRM but she didn't get what I was telling her - until she moved stuff to her laptop and her DRM-encumbered iTunes stuff didn't transfer over.
For all the people whining about DRM, I find it really curious that same people use WINDOWS (DRMed), iPhones (DRMed), Locked Cell Phones and so on.
What I don't see is them buying/using Linux (small subset maybe), Nexus One (unlocked, non-tied Android), and I can't recall the last time I saw an MP3 player that wasn't iPod or Zune.
If Apple makes a product that works for people, regardless of how /. people view DRM or Vendor lock in, then it will be successful.
If you want unwalled garden where you can run anything, you'll complain that it gets virii and crapware (Windows) or you get a system that granny can't use because it is too "technical" (Linux).
The problem isn't Apple, it is unrealistic expectations that a company that serves the masses, needs to cater to the elite few (myself included). I'm not buying a Mac, don't own one. Don't want one. But then again I'm not Apple's market.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Wow, you can predict the future. Do you have any predictions for some stocks that we can all take advantage of?
Except there is evidence for apple liking to lock down things, look at the iPad and iPhone, iTV.
I'd buy an iPad over a netbook in a heartbeat if it ran osX, and had an unlocked bootloader.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
i bet if they do that, someone accidentally the whole thing!
People, what a bunch of bastards
What parts of "automatic installation of applications" requires iOS-like DRM?
The part where Steve likes to control everything.
Support SETI@home
Excellent point. Linux does it so much better. That is why MS and Apple are struggling for a couple of factions of a percent of market share against the desktop Linux behemoth.
with the new MacBook Air <3.
my opportunity to freely express myself with the potential persecution and hangings and such
i wish all my pictures came out that beautiful, but my friends aren't that pretty.
What's wrong with pounds and inches? What is so unscientific about them? NASA uses pounds and inches.
my opportunity to freely express myself with the potential persecution and hangings and such
No, there isn't. Based on Apples history, and the way the historically change, There is no reason to believe they won't. In fact, it would be stupid to think they wont try it because it's the most economical sense;however, they aren't dumb. They will push in little bits until they get enough feedback. Then they will step back a bit.
Base a forecast on a historical trend isn't slippery slope.
Had he said, the install the App store, then they will enforce specific user biometrics to logon . That would be a slippery slope because the end result is an extreme. Since they are already selling locked down devices, it's not an extreme position to say they will move it to other platforms.
Of course,, we won't know until we know. The key issue is to be sure you let Apple know you wouldn't want them to do it before they do it. The best approach is a nice letter.
I take it logic 101 was a morning course for you?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I complain about traffic laws, but still need to use roads.
I use windows because I have to.
I Have a g1. I use it for all my music, it is neither a Zune or an iPod.
You are very mypoic and seem to have no idea what goes on in the real world.
The fact that you consider tor self an 'elite few' speaks volumes.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
But what if they suddenly decide that only App Store applications can run on OS X? I mean, besides destroying a good chunk of their technical user base, generating a shitload of bad press and annoying even their casual users as their favourite freeware apps won't be available anymore? Oh, right. Microsoft sending them a nice thank-you letter is what would happen.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Um, yeah, because there's no market for people who want a slim, light laptop that doesn't have a shitty CPU like the Atom in it. Nope, none at all. A "uselessly high screen resolution"? What the hell? Yeah, too small for serious work (because other 13" notebooks are too small too, right?), yet the screen resolution is too high, which is one way of compensating for the size. Do you even read what you write??
And the same free market that sent software freedom on mobile devices back to the dark ages after iOS' release!
Microsoft - from open development in WinMo to iOS-like total lockdown in WP7
Palm - experimented with closed development in early launch of WebOS, went from full native apps to script-based applets, lost me as a customer
Google - put remote app install/kill into Android, apps are mainly script-based applets, jai- uh, reflashing required for true freedom.
Praise be to Rand! The free market will protect our software freedom!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
This seems to be overlooked by most people here.
It's as if once people get a Mac, they will never ever get anything else. Like it's heroin or cocaine.
Granted, after three months of professional use, I'm missing more and more stuff from the Mac on Windows, but even if I bought a Mac of some sort, it would probably end up being replaced in about two to three years, just like I have done with every other computer I've had thus far. And once I replace it, nothing is stopping me from getting a non-Mac computer.
I guarantee you that we haven't seen close to everything in Lion yet. There will be much more later, often those nifty under-the-hood bits. This was to show off to the public. I'm more interested in what they're telling developers.
Oh, finally, someone will actually give a reason instead of just implying that they have one!
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
FaceTime for the Mac will connect video chat to phones with a Beta starting today. What the heck is a beta? A play on words perhaps, or a mistake of words. &_& I want a beta. I like being radiated.
My Web Site
Prove me wrong without using facts.
Instant on. Non upgradable. More unibody-ier. Higher res display like the iPad.
More marketing than actual hybridization, but that's normal marketing.
There is no reason to believe they won't try and push that up the stack if they feel users will accept it.
I can think of two reasons right off the top of my head.
1. There's a big difference between moving from a completely locked down system (nearly all cell phone development prior to the app store) to a slightly less locked down system and moving from a completely open development environment to a more locked down one.
2. Apple does not command the mind and market share in the desktop sphere that it does in the mobile sphere, and thus cannot dictate the direction of the entire market the way they do in mobile.
ooh just thought of a third one..
3. Lower barriers to exit in the desktop space. No ETFs and no cost at all to switch to Linux. Even an OEM copy of Windows is only half as much as even a subsidized smart phone. Also, no need to switch hardware as both Windows and Linux will run on what you have if you're switching from a Mac.
the same way you can opt out of Disneyworld, don't go there. Don't buy a ticket and whine like a little bitch about how there's no good X rated theater inside it.
Do you not understand how computers work? Because making that transfer over isn't hard.
If think screwing over and locking out third parties is evil, then Apple already became an evil company for what it did to other OSX-compatible hardware vendors. At least with the App Store they just ban some of their competition and take some of the receipts.
And if you don't think screwing over and locking out third parties is evil, then what's with all the skepticism about Apple trying to make even more of their software ecosystem fractionally as locked down as their hardware ecosystem? Answer for me: why shouldn't they?
They know that, even if they do so, you'll still be an apologist for them afterwards.
Your example is apt.
The XBox was closed from the beginning and will remain closed. Windows was open and will remain an open platform.
iOS was closed from the beginning and will remain closed. Mac OS X was open and will remain an open platform.
Some people look a few years down the road and see the world ending in a Mayan calendar apocalypse. Running around yelling the sky is falling is not a virtue.
# (/.);;
- : float -> float -> float =
What I don't get about the new MacBook Air is the default 2GB of memory. When every $500 PC at Best Buy is shipping with 4GB, you need to make it standard. We're spending $1000 on a MacBook Air, so it's silly to cheap out on the memory. Yeah, you can upgrade to 4GB for another $100. But you shouldn't need to special-order to get what should be the standard.
Core 2 Duo is disappointing but not unexpected. NVIDIA's chipset doesn't work with Nehalem and probably never will.
SSD is nice, but we'll have to see what the performance is. Depending on the controller it could range from poor to excellent.
Honestly, Apple did what they could. If you need to buy now, both of the MacBook Air models are nice - if expensive - machines. Getting a 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo and decent graphics in a 2.3lb package is really cool. Paying $1400 to get the configuration that this machine should have as stock (1.6GHz, 4GB, 128GB) is less so, but compared to other premium machines (ThinkPad X201s, Vaio Z) you're not paying much of a premium - you're just trading less performance for less size/weight.
The problem is that this category is about to be redefined. AMD is releasing Ontario and Zacate early next year, which will contain an out-of-order processor with similar performance to the Core 2 Duo in the Air, plus a Radeon 5400-class GPU that will handily beat the GeForce 320M in the Air. All of this in 9/18W (less than the Air) and a single chip, at a low price.
Intel is releasing Sandy Bridge next year. It will have similar graphics performance to the GeForce 320M, plus CPU performance that will blow it away. All while using less power, in a single chip.
You can already buy 11.6" notebooks with better CPU performance than the Air. The Acer 1830 series runs around $700 with an i5 and 4GB of DDR3. It has the same resolution screen as the 11.6" Air. It has a hard drive, which increases the size and weight. It also enables you to have 500GB of storage or to upgrade to a fast SSD (Intel, SandForce, etc.) for around $200. The Acer also has Gigabit Ethernet and an HDMI port.
The Air's advantage is that it's built better (aluminum vs plastic), that it's thinner/lighter (2.3lbs instead of ~3lbs), and that it runs OS X. But I can't help but think that the Mac would be better off with an i5 instead. Most people are not going to play games on an 11.6" notebook, both because of thermal issues (25W+ of CPU+GPU in that form factor means lots of heat/noise) and because PC gaming isn't that popular in general. I think most people would trade a slower Intel GPU for a faster CPU, and the Air could easily take a ULV Core i5 or i7 (18W).
Ultimately, Sandy Bridge or Zacate is the answer to this category, not a last-gen Core CPU. Apple made compromises that are acceptable but not ideal. Unfortunately, that's hard to swallow in a $1000+ machine.
Instant on.
OK, I missed that part of the talk - what's "instant on" about it?
Non upgradable.
As in "the internal secondary storage is soldered to the motherboard rather than being in a removable hard drive or SSD"?
More unibody-ier.
"More unibody-ier" than, say, a current MacBook or MacBook Pro?
Higher res display like the iPad.
What makes it "like the iPad"?
More marketing than actual hybridization, but that's normal marketing.
OK, I should go back and see the part of the talk where they used the word "hybrid" (I'm assuming that's there, otherwise, it's not even marketing, it's just somebody not at Apple calling it a hybrid).
When will /. readers acknowledge...
I think I speak for us all when I say... NEVER!
The CB App. What's your 20?
Totally! Just like some guy told me that Obama's administration isn't eating babies... I reminded him that they're not doing it *YET*! Just you wait!
The CB App. What's your 20?
You're the exception not the rule. My view is not self centered.
I use Linux, Windows, Mac. I have a Blackberry and next phone will be Droid X or something similar. I have iPod, because it works with everything in my house (dock on stereo, iHome in kitchen etc), and I don't have to think about it.
I see things as tools, some are better than others at things. When they stop being useful, I'll move to something that is.
If you want to complain about VENDOR lockin, just take a look at CPU market. AMD and Intel, running on X86 BIOS based systems (for the most part). WHY? Because that is what runs Windows. The fact that Apple had to switch a few years ago is more troublesome to me than anything Apple is doing to the Mac Market.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Do you not understand how computers work? Because making that transfer over isn't hard.
No - you're the only one.
FYI: Retail stores markup prices so they can stay in business.
Apple's app store merely needs to charge around the price of a typical retail markup on their software. Major packages may get breaks but then they do in retail stores as well. In fact, someday they may pay for product placement in the app store just like many do today --by paying retail stores for better shelf space for their products!
Its nearly pure profit for apple because there is no retail store involved but given its ideal location they could charge a little more. The difference here is that they are going to pressure vendors to take prices so that the app store's end price is comparable with retail stores instead of charge premium pricing at their store. This may be something smaller vendors like if it is in exchange for FAIR placement in the store against a larger vendor just itching to buy the best shelf space or pay employees to promote their product (like MS does in retail stores.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Undoubtedly there's a Glenn Beck joke in there, lurking just beneath the surface.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
What parts of "automatic installation of applications" requires iOS-like DRM?
The part where Steve likes to control everything.
That's not a part of "automatic installation of applications". With some of the hyperbole shaved off (i.e., with "likes to control everything" modified to cover only the stuff that is controlled in iOSland), that's a part of "an App Store exactly like the iDevice App Store"; it's not yet been indicated what review process (if any) will be used for the Mac App Store. (And, as El Jobso said in the damn talk, the Mac App Store won't be the only place to get apps; he did not say "until Lion comes out, at which point all your apps are belong to us!" That doesn't 100% rule out Lion working that way, but it doesn't 100% rule it in, either.)
He is not your guy, buddy.
He's probably not Buddy Guy, either.
THIS more than anything would be a competition-crusher. Granted there are platform differences, but those could be overcome in the next-gen Mac hardware. Maybe a new form of the touchpad that you can manipulate and rotate like an iPod touch. There are some great, cheap IOS apps and games. I predict when Lion ships you will be able to run IOS apps on it.
Ask Me About... The 80's!
Yes, 2015 will be the "year of murdering small children on the desktop".
You just wait and see!
-- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
Apple is not currently murdering small children. Wait a few years.
Meh, Linux can already murder small children, and with the right command line parameters, and the beta build and a few tweaks to the code and using some specific hardware configurations, older children to!
-- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
Look, Apple isn't the first to come out with these kinds of ultralight, high-powered laptops. I used to buy them before netbooks came out. If you can't figure out why high resolution on a tiny screen doesn't make much sense or why packing a Core 2 Duo into a tiny package and expecting to run CPU intensive stuff on it doesn't work well, buy one and you'll see. Reducing the thickness from 1" to 0.7" doesn't improve the things that are wrong with such a design.
ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.
Yeah, I think they'll call their business distribution OS X. It'll be a lot like Windows.
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
You're a few years too late. Apple and Nintendo aren't viable stocks right now.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Customary/Imperial is regionally inconsistent; there are different miles, different ounces, different gallons. SI is consistent: a metre is a metre anywhere. A litre is a litre anywhere.
Let's do some conversions. If you are 1.70 metre tall, you are 170 centimetres tall. Easy peasy. But if you are 5 feet, 7 inches tall, you have to stop and do the math: 1 foot = 12 inches, therefore (12x5)+7= 67 inches tall. And it gets worse for long distances; the conversion ratios are a mess. 1 foot = 12 inches; 1 yard = 3 feet; 1 mile = 1760 yards = 5280 feet. Just to mention a few, and I haven't touched weights or volumes yet.
Now check the SI: 1000 milimetres = 100 centimetres = 10 decimetre = 1 metre. A thousand metres make a kilometre. And a litre is a cubic decimetre. Powers of ten, always. It makes sense because it is designed to make sense!
And I'm not one to say "do things like everyone else does", but in this case it's a good point: pretty much the whole world uses the SI, so using a different system is a bit of a hindrance for international trade. Who else uses the old system? Liberia and Burma. Not the greatest business partners to you can find, really.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Oh yes, yes it is.
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
Now I have to spend more cash on getting OSX Lion. iWork just seems like a complete waste of money to me, iWork 09 is almost identical, only differences are that iWork 11 looks different and iMovie has a few more features. MacBook Air still sucks. Facetime for Mac is fun though! :P
There's an app for that.
No left turn unstoned.
Err, except that your example is exceedingly hyperbolic.
Apple is shipping systems that are locked down now.
No they aren't.
They ship mobile devices that are locked down, but none of their general purpose computers are locked down. Name one that is.
I oversee a bunch of systems, Windows, Linux and Macs - the Macs include Mac Minis, iMacs and Mac Pros. Not one of them is locked down in any way that prevents me from installing anything I want to.
So, I repeat my challenge to you: name a computer system (not a portable phone, tablet or music player, but an actual computer system) sold by Apple that is locked down.
Putting moderation advice in your
Because we're fucking pissed that corporations keep trying to pull this shit on people.
So why not put your own machine together and install Linux?
Is someone forcing you to buy from Apple? (That's a rhetorical question and most everyone is going to be sure that the answer is 99.999% likely to be "no")
The market is large enough to support a wide range of users from those like my parents, who just want things to work easily (which Apple actually delivers), to users who like to tinker with their systems (which, strangely enough, outside of portable devices, Apple also delivers), to even cranks like yourself who are on some kind of anti-Apple jihad (who can buy a no-name computer and install Linux or even Windows).
Seriously, nobody's requiring that you not go out and buy whatever computer you want and install whatever you want on it. If you truly feel that Apple is trying to persecute you in some way, you should probably seek professional help before you load up your car with explosives and run it into the nearest Apple store. Do you feel like the walls are closing in on you? Do you look over your shoulder when you walk down the street, to make sure that nobody wearing a black turtle-neck is following you? These are symptoms of paranoia, which is very treatable these days.
It's not even like Apple is a very large slice of the "PC" market. Heck, Windows already uses signed installers for some things like device drivers doesn't it? Why aren't you on a rant that they're going to require that only device drivers that are signed by MS will be able to be installed in the future? MS holds a far bigger slice of the OS marketplace than Apple does, and MS seems far more likely to do something like that.
The bottom line is that there is always going to be a market for general-purpose computers that can be used in any way the user wants. As long as the market need is there, computer makers will support it. Relax, and just don't buy anything from people you don't like. Even if they aren't out to get you. Which they could be.
Putting moderation advice in your
You may want to see my earlier post #33973130 where I suggest that another individual who appears to have only a tenuous grip on reality and seems to believe that Apple is out to get him or her may want to seek professional help.
For some reason, there are a number of people who seem to hope that Apple is going to lock down their desktop systems (systems, which I must point out are not the only desktop systems sold in the personal computer market space; there exists a huge number of alternatives) purely so that these individuals can express their outrage at something which is not happening.
Even if it did happen, there are other computer systems available from other manufacturers who have no problem letting you install whatever OS and other software you want on their systems.
This paranoia that Apple somehow defines all that takes place in the personal computer marketplace, coupled with the apparently very realistic hallucination that Apple is locking their desktop systems down and somehow by extension locking all other general-purpose computers down is really ready like mass hysteria, or some kind of shared persecution complex.
Seriously, give it a rest. It's not reality. Apple is not locking down their desktop systems (mobile phones, portable media players, and Internet tablets are not general-purpose computing devices). If Apple did lock down their desktop systems, nothing would prevent end users from obtaining and using other computer systems. In fact, those alternatives are already available - alternatives which would flourish as former Mac users move to more open alternatives.
Putting moderation advice in your
You can't usefully sell products in that space without getting sign off form the telcos
While it's been proven that AT&T has had an influence over the contents of the App Store, the Android market has had relatively little influence been placed by the telcos. I can only think of one instance, Skype, where a telco has influenced the Android Market. As long as you have an android device with the Market you are not at the mercy of the telcos for selling your apps. Case in point - wireless access point and usb tethering without going through the carrier.
but iLife '11 is still distributed on DVD.
It has the App Store. How are they going to provide an iPad like app store without iPad like DRM?
And along the way, Apple is taking some of the most successful parts of iOS, like the App Store—with automatic installation of applications—and the springboard—rechristened launchpad in Lion. http://gizmodo.com/5668805/
The words are right there. All you have to do is read them.
You are quoting Gizmodo? Why don't you go any place that has a clue? Heck, the part where they say that the App Store is part of iOS should have tipped you off. But then, you'd actually have to have a clue about what you are talking about.
Fandroids hate facts.
You completely missed the point. I wasn't claiming that people who buy the Macbook Air want to run intensive stuff. I said that there are those who want more oomph than the Atom provides (which is diddly), but still want an ultraslim notebook. I didn't say that Apple was the first to do this. High resolution is fine on a small screen up to a certain extent. I really don't see 720p or so resolution on an 11.6" screen surpassing that.
Not surprising that it's an AC posting laughable horseshit like this.
No, YOU completely missed the point. I'm not faulting Apple for copying other people's designs (everybody does that). I'm saying: I don't need to buy a new MacBook Air in order to know what its problems are going to be because I have used plenty of machines like that.
And of course you want more "oomph" than an Atom and accelerated graphics, Durendal_Mac_, because OS X and its apps don't run well on an Atom with low-end graphics. You pay for Apple's software bloat by paying twice as much for the machine and getting less than half the battery life of a netbook.
Possible responses:
Also, bear in mind that prior to iPhone, things were a lot more locked down. One might reasonably argue that Apple's success paved the way for more open handsets that would have been soundly rejected by the telcos previously, including Android. Just saying.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Also, bear in mind that prior to iPhone, things were a lot more locked down. One might reasonably argue that Apple's success paved the way for more open handsets that would have been soundly rejected by the telcos previously, including Android. Just saying.
Considering that google purchased Android, Inc. in 2005, and the first iPhone wasn't announced until 2007, your argument falls flat. In addition, there already existed symbian which was open source and Nokia's Maemo. In fact, for the most part, the US had mobile phones a helluva lot more locked down than anywhere else. Yes, the iPhone was first to market but all of the arguments stating that Android only copied the iPhone, or iPhone paved the way, are wrong because of two things:
Mind you, I don't use the above to take any credit from Apple, they were innovative with the design of the iPhone. I disagree with all the "revolutionized phones" arguments, but that's my opinion. However to say that the iPhone's success can reasonably be what paved the way for more open handsets like Android is ludicrous. It was the logical progression of phones to provide features such as smartphones provide. Telcos certainly were not going to create such an OS because they preferred to keep the lock down. Therefore any 3rd party creating a smartphone OS would be more open and the telcos would not reject it.
For evidence, just look at blackberry. Long before the iPhone or Android, BlackBerrys had the most features and you could get applications from RIM for it. People could develop applications for it. The iPhone and Android just did it better, which is why you see RIM following them in their approach of the new BlackBerrys.
In fact, considering that Android was announced with the founding of the Open Handset Alliance, it can be argued that Android paved the way for more open handsets that would have been roundly rejected previously. Whereas the iPhone cannot be claimed to be open at all, especially in its original iteration where it did not have the App Store.
just saying.....
First, I've never said nor implied that Android copied iPhone in any way.
Second, Android may have existed in house back in 2005, but there was no hardware until *years* later. The first consumer hardware based on Android didn't come onto the market until several months after the iPhone app store came into existence. Go look it up.
So that leaves RIM and Nokia, both of which have app approval processes, AFAIK.
Just saying.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Yes, the iPhone was first to market
I acknowledged that the iPhone was first to market. I also never said you specifically stated that Android copied iPhone, I lumped the common argument that 'everyone has copied the iPhone' in with your argument that the iPhone 'paved the way for more open handsets'.
So that leaves RIM and Nokia, both of which have app approval processes, AFAIK.
This is irrelevant. As I stated, the only phone release, if any at all, that could be considered as paving the way for open handsets would be Android due to the formation of the Open Handset Alliance that resulted from the release of Android. The iPhone and its locked down App Store along with RIM and its app approval process (AFAIK due to the nature of Nokia's Maemo phones you can load whatever software you like, there is no approval process necessary. I could be wrong.) can't be considered as paving the way for openness because you are still locked down, only to the phone manufacturer instead of the telco.
Microsft is shipping xbox systems that are locked down now. There is no reason to believe they won't try and push that up the stack if they feel users will accept it.
But people will keep defending Microsft until it's too late, and they keep on asking $500+ for developer licenses.
What were you saying about hyperbole again?