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Shadow Scholar Details Student Cheating

vortex2.71 writes "A 'shadow writer,' who lives on the East Coast, details how he makes a living writing papers for a custom-essay company and describes the extent of student cheating he has observed. In the course of editing his article, The Chronicle Of Higher Education reviewed correspondence he had with clients and some of the papers he had been paid to write. 'I've written toward a master's degree in cognitive psychology, a Ph.D. in sociology, and a handful of postgraduate credits in international diplomacy. I've worked on bachelor's degrees in hospitality, business administration, and accounting. I've written for courses in history, cinema, labor relations, pharmacology, theology, sports management, maritime security, airline services, sustainability, municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, postmodern architecture, anthropology, literature, and public administration. I've attended three dozen online universities. I've completed 12 graduate theses of 50 pages or more. All for someone else.'"

542 comments

  1. No engineering? by mangu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FTFS: "I've written for courses in history, cinema, labor relations, pharmacology, theology, sports management, maritime security, airline services, sustainability, municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, postmodern architecture, anthropology, literature, and public administration."

    Hah! I'd love to see how this guy would do a physics or calculus paper...

    1. Re:No engineering? by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      A good math class will include some research projects of some kind. For instance, I remember back in Calc 1 I wrote a report on the math behind fonts that allows them to scale (can't remember the name for it anymore), complete with code to draw and scale using the squiggly lines.

    2. Re:No engineering? by DeathToBill · · Score: 1, Funny

      Exactly - when I read the list I thought, "So, nothing that matters then..."

      --
      Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
    3. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 2, Funny

      code to draw and scale using the squiggly lines.

      Splines?

      It's pretty funny that you wrote a report on this but can't remember the name for anything :p

      --
      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:No engineering? by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Informative

      He says he doesn't do anything that requires math (or video documented animal husbandary).

    5. Re:No engineering? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Engineering students just copy from each other. The penalties are harsh though, I had some friends that were caught doing it for one of the easiest possible classes and they were all instantly failed from the course. I've never personally cheated during my coursework, but from my own anecdotes I would say about 30-40% of my classmates were cheating. Either by copying homework solutions directly from solutions manuals, from previous years papers, or by copying the work from someone else.

      People would also always be trying to cheat during exams, trying to copy other students answers or bringing in cheat sheets that weren't allowed. The intro classes were the worst, to the point where students were not allowed to wear hats in class because some students had previously tried to tape answers underneath the bill. The only calculators we were allowed were simple scientific calculators, no graphing calculators since students would try to cheat with those as well.

    6. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's flamebait if every I've seen it.

      In what world do you live in that accounting, sustainability, maritime security and ethics do not matter?

      Would you really like to live in a world where your employer had no money to pay you, farmers had no crops left to feed you, and pirates and foreign armies were free to invade via sea to rape your wife and daughters while everyone else either watched idly, or cheered them on?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:No engineering? by Moryath · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I had professors who simply gave every student the chance to bring a note sheet to the exam.

      One 8-12x11" sheet of paper. Both sides. Put whatever you want on it. The kids who printed it up with every possible item in 3-point font failed, those who put down the relevant concepts and formulae in a quick and easy-access format succeeded, because the test was actually structured to test whether you had learned the concepts and how to apply them.

      Of course, this requires that the professor isn't a lazy asshole who's been using the same, unchanged scantron-based multiple guess test for the past 20 years.

    8. Re:No engineering? by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      Meh, it's been years since then, and I've never had the greatest memory, though if I was at home I could look it up in my old textbook. It was something named after the guy who developed the math behind it.. The only other detail I can remember is that the dude who came up with it worked for a European car company and used it to determine how to build the curves on the bodies of cars.

    9. Re:No engineering? by martas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you need a humor transplant, dude... GP was funny!

    10. Re:No engineering? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      A paper? He'd probably do fine. An exam however? He'd flunk it quite badly.

      This is the difference between subjective and objective metrics.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    11. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's not what he implied, the article is about writing scientific papers and therefore I assume that the parent meant that all the scientific disciplines mentioned are not important. Not the subjects, that's a difference.

      Now, I do agree that is a bit harsh but I have to agree that anyone dumb Joe can probably become good at any of the above mentioned subjects -- but you would need intelligence to excel in mathematics, physics, engineering and the like.

    12. Re:No engineering? by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      The subject matter, the grade level, the college, the course—these things are irrelevant to me. Prices are determined per page and are based on how long I have to complete the assignment. As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything.

      It's nice to know that our beloved engineering is safe........for now.

    13. Re:No engineering? by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Note that animal husbandry is okay, as long as it's not video documented.

    14. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Could be Bezier splines. I worked with my dad on a CAD plugin he wrote that converted geometry into splines for a machine that cut ceramics/textiles. I'd forgotten the "Bezier" name too to be honest.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    15. Re:No engineering? by nstrom · · Score: 1

      You're probably thinking of Bézier curves.

    16. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mon dieu, Google est ton ami!

      Pierre Bézier

      Pierre Étienne Bézier (September 1, 1910 – November 25, 1999; [pj etjn bezje]) was a French engineer and one of the founders of the fields of solid, geometric and physical modeling as well as in the field of representing curves, especially in CAD/CAM systems.[1] As an engineer at Renault, he became a leader in the transformation of design and manufacturing, through mathematics and computing tools, into computer-aided design and three-dimensional modeling.[1]

      Bézier patented and popularized, but did not invent the Bézier curves and Bézier surfaces that are now used in most computer-aided design and computer graphics systems.

      But I cheated; I used to be heavy into computer graphics. That name came to me pretty quickly. Anyone who's ever gone halfway through a 3D programming tutorial would have come across Bezier curves :D

    17. Re:No engineering? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Probably not well. He says he doesn't do math. It's fair enough really. Everyone can't be good at everything.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    18. Re:No engineering? by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      That was it!! Thanks!

    19. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you talking about Bezier Curves?

    20. Re:No engineering? by holamundo · · Score: 1

      The subject matter, the grade level, the college, the course—these things are irrelevant to me. Prices are determined per page and are based on how long I have to complete the assignment. As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything.

      It's nice to know that our beloved engineering is safe........for now.

      Not really. There are engineering courses that do not require maths. From non-technical ones like "Engineers in Society" to technical ones like "Web Security" (of course it can involve maths but you don't need maths to write a paper on web security).

    21. Re:No engineering? by elh_inny · · Score: 1

      Surely you're talking about Pierre Étienne Bézier

    22. Re:No engineering? by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      It's not that they don't matter it's that degrees and the subsequent salaries that they probably command are often over valued.

    23. Re:No engineering? by umghhh · · Score: 4, Interesting
      In my time at school some of our teachers gave us free hand - bring what you want and see if you succeed. The problem was that these were the most difficult exams of them all as they required:
      • understanding of the tested subject
      • ability to solve puzzles related to subject

      And as such exams are time limited no dead tree or electronic material can really help you solve the task in time if you have no clue. These were exams I actually enjoyed as I could pass (albeit not w/o difficulties) and majority of my colleagues (the cheaters and those that learned by the letter) needed few more attempts usually.

    24. Re:No engineering? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I had a lot of classes like that as well. Half my classes were actually open book, but the book didn't help you much if you didn't know what you were doing to begin with.

    25. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah! I'd love to see how this guy would do a physics or calculus paper...

      This guy would probably fail, but I'm sure there are others with a more scientific background who could do this. Coursework is trivial, as this doesn't even require coming up with new ideas. But, I'm pretty sure this works even up to the PhD level, if done properly. The key is to stay under the radar, so that no one will bother to check your results. Heck, you can even get bogus papers through the peer review process at a mediocre journal if they sound only boring enough.

      However, it will be much harder to find someone in science/engineering with several years of work experience to work for only 66k a year.

    26. Re:No engineering? by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      I have a BSEE and every one of my classes required a lot of Math...even Engineering Administration. Classes like "Web Security" are not engineering courses and fall more within the realm of "Information Systems", "Business Systems" or whatever they are calling it these days that can be picked up by anyone with an engineering background in a weekend.

    27. Re:No engineering? by Ash+Vince · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hah! I'd love to see how this guy would do a physics or calculus paper...

      When I studied Physics we had hardly any coursework. There was some but I don't remember it as I never did any. 80% of the course was based on reeling off mathematical proofs in exams.

      In this type of course it would be just too easy to cheat so they force you to reel the proofs off under closed conditions with a limited supply of reference material (if any) provided.

      I do remember when I was studying Physics though one of my house mates who was studying Sociology and Cultural Studies had to write an essay on Neil Stephenson and his book The Diamond Age. He had about as much interest in Science Fiction a I do in Sociology but he chose that book as he knew I had a copy. He also knew I liked the author.

      On the night before his assignment was due in he came and asked me for some help. I proceeded to waffle on about the book based on the leading question he had been given regarding it. He sat there with his pad and took notes as I pointed out the sections of the book that were relevant to the question and gave some examples of the how the technological change (nanotechnology) in the book had changed the separate societies that are mentioned. It probably also helped that I was studying Physics so had some idea of nanotechnology.

      After an hour or so he took his 1 or 2 sides of A4 notes and went upstairs to churn out an essay based on my ideas. He gained a first for that paper, and permanently changed my opinion of humanities subjects: Most of them are so easy to pass they should not even be taught in the same college as the sciences of engineering subjects, they are certainly not the same academic level and do not require the same amount of study. All they require is the ability to structure your ideas (or someone else's) into a well formed English essay.

      Incidentally the guy who wrote that essay passed sociology and now works as a building site labourer. I failed physics and work as a lead software developer for a fairly small but very friendly company. I guess the employment market does not really value his sociology degree either.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    28. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      What kind of university did you go to? When I did my bachelors and masters, I would say that probably a handful of students (of ~60) *perhaps* cheated during the first year but then they fell out. *No one* in my class of ~30 Master students cheated. Really. Except exchange students though, they cheated all the time (this is also reflected in the nationality of the students ending up before the disciplinary board -- Indian and Pakistani students numbered *vastly* more than anyone else).

    29. Re:No engineering? by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      I just don't think it's right for women to take animals as their husbands...

      //No, I'm not that stupid.

    30. Re:No engineering? by HazMathew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hardly ever used my "cheat sheets". By the time I was done studying and had created my sheet I knew the material well.

    31. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you do accounting? Do you even know the basics of how to read a financial statement?

      Just because you personally don't understand it, doesn't mean it's worthless. If you were running a business, you would quickly understand why accountants get paid so well.

    32. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 1

      I don't actually think he was joking though, which is the part I don't find funny.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    33. Re:No engineering? by dcollins · · Score: 1

      I guess I'm constantly surprised that this is received as an amazing innovation. Most math textbooks I see come with a tear-out formula card. I just let everyone use those on my tests (statistics, trigonometry, etc.) I disallow writing anything else on it so it's not a how-small-can-you-write exercise.

      But I guess most instructors don't do that... for the life of me I can't imagine why memorizing formulas at that level would be desirable... (sigh)

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    34. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, that is the difference between what an obsessive math freak thinks are subjective and objective metrics. There are very useful objective metrics in most humanities disciplines. They aren't as widely practiced as they should be, but they do exist. And as someone else put it above, it's just as easy to cheat on a math exam as it is to cheat on a paper.

    35. Re:No engineering? by Mikey+Kristopeity · · Score: 1, Insightful

      i am michael kristopeit. i don't cower in the shadows with you and the feebs.

      why do you cower? what are you afraid of? you're completely pathetic.

      ring ring ring ring ring ring ring banana phone.

    36. Re:No engineering? by martas · · Score: 1

      Well, I prefer mistaking serious statements for jokes to the opposite. So, if you keep saying that, I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and go "LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALA."

      Soo.... Yeah.

    37. Re:No engineering? by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Hah! I'd love to see how this guy would do a physics or calculus paper...

      It's not his specialty.

      I'd love to see a slashdot user write a paper in "philosophy, ethics, architecture, etc" as well.

      But yes, you can have a calculus or physics paper ordered online, only not from this guy.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    38. Re:No engineering? by need4mospd · · Score: 1

      Note how [i]most[/i] of these are basically bullshit courses. Someone with a decent vocabulary that is really good at writing bullshit could easily pass most of those courses with minimal research. I've taken a couple of those classes on the list and they were probably the ones I took least serious because I knew I could skim the books a few nights before the final and ace it.

    39. Re:No engineering? by need4mospd · · Score: 1

      tag fail

    40. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm currently studying theoretical physics, with rare exceptions all our exams allow the use of note sheets, class notes or even entire books. They are in no way easier and really test the students comprehension and intelligence. I will probably never forget my 6 hour exam on general relativity. 6 hours of arduous thinking and calculations with the aid of Wald, MTW, Ortin and friends

    41. Re:No engineering? by Xtravar · · Score: 1

      In my experience, the teachers that allowed cheat sheets were usually the poor ones. They didn't want to accept the sad truth that their lectures were terrible.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    42. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had professors who simply gave every student the chance to bring a note sheet to the exam.

      I had a Physics professor who provided the cheat sheet for the final exam. It contained every formula that had been discussed throughout the entire year.

    43. Re:No engineering? by jythie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A variant of that idea I rather liked. I had a professor who liked to give 'tests of 2'... i.e. every answer on the test was '2'.... but better show your work.

    44. Re:No engineering? by x_IamSpartacus_x · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I had a friend whose professor allowed this too. He said pretty much what yours did, that "You can put whatever you want on it, front or back." My friend was in an advanced logic class so he brought an empty 8-12x11" sheet of paper and a postgrad philosophy major who stood on the piece of paper and gave my friend all the answers. Because it was a logic class the professor allowed it. A professor who can admit that he's been outsmarted by a student is a pretty good teacher if you ask me.

    45. Re:No engineering? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      I'm a professor of Physics. I've graded 286 papers this term for my class of 56.

      Why is there this wide-spread myth that physicists don't need to write or that writing has nothing to do with the sciences?

    46. Re:No engineering? by Stooshie · · Score: 1

      RTFA. He says he doesn't do Maths papers.

      --
      America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
    47. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Well, I prefer mistaking serious statements for jokes to the opposite

      Not always the best course of action.

      There's a game store in town that looked like it was closing down one night with the gate half open, but I asked and the guy running the place at the time said it was still fine to come in. So a few days later when the gate was half down I just popped in for a look at some games and the store manager got irate (there were a group of maybe 5 or 6 of the employees standing there having a chat). I had never seen him before and he looked like a scummy kind of guy, so I assumed he was just kidding. I just laughed and looked at the guy who'd let me in the previous time. He confirmed that in fact the guy was not kidding. It wasn't much fun, I haven't wanted to go back since.

      People often think I'm being serious when I'm actually being sarcastic. At least online I tend to put silly emotes after jokes, which is why I write :p so much when doing instant messages or whatever.

      It's pretty common for geeks to be rather narcissistic and assume that what they do is more important than what everyone else does. Sure some of the topics that this guy had to write essays on aren't much fun for geeks, and may seem worthless/stupid/evil. But in the real world they are often even more important than the engineering that goes into a product or service. Many products succeed or fail on their marketing or aesthetic value, and not their technical prowess.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    48. Re:No engineering? by friedo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Similarly, I had a Calc professor who gave all the answers on the test, but you had to show all the work on how to get there.

    49. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were trolled. Hard.
      It was funny. It still is funny like jokes that all engineers are homosexuals.

    50. Re:No engineering? by blargfellow · · Score: 1

      As a physics undergraduate, I wrote a grand total of 0 papers for my physics courses.

    51. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You can put whatever you want on it, front or back."

      Hmmm.... it's a good thing he didn't say "and", or if I was the instructor I would have said "Nice try, but logically your exam assistant can't be on the front *and* the back of the paper at the same time".

    52. Re:No engineering? by tophermeyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Boom. This right here.

      I had them. Occasionally they were helpful to reference complex formulae or names/dates I never cared to memorize. But the activity of summarizing concepts and creating the cheat sheet was all the review I needed to handle the exam.

    53. Re:No engineering? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      The final for my highest logic course had only one problem, open book, open notes, books from the library, whatever. The goal was to prove A && ~A from three givens, and I did it in 2 hours, with 92 steps, which was four better than the professors answer.

      And all the guys in comp sci mocked me because philosophy was "useless" and couldn't understand why I was the better coder.

      In short, I don't see how bringing a grad would help in a logic exam (even less than a math exam, because you always know the answer, since you're either proving something is true or false) and despite philosophies reputation, no logic prof I had would have allowed any such nitpickery.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    54. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My favorite was a Math teacher who used to let us use whatever program we wanted on our graphing calculators as long as we wrote the program ourselves. It was a great strategy. By the time you were done programming all of the formulas for the test into the calculator, you knew the formulas so well that you barely needed it.

    55. Re:No engineering? by Saib0t · · Score: 1

      "You can put whatever you want on it, front or back."

      Hmmm.... it's a good thing he didn't say "and", or if I was the instructor I would have said "Nice try, but logically your exam assistant can't be on the front *and* the back of the paper at the same time".

      Simply fold the paper in a moebius strip (or, more simply, fold back 2cms)

      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    56. Re:No engineering? by martas · · Score: 1

      Point conceded.

      (Ouch... that hurt :] )

    57. Re:No engineering? by jayme0227 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm.... it's a good thing he didn't say "and", or if I was the instructor I would have said "Nice try, but logically your exam assistant can't be on the front *and* the back of the paper at the same time".

      Just fold over a corner or something and make sure that part of your foot is on the folded corner. Problem solved.

      --
      But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
    58. Re:No engineering? by bored_engineer · · Score: 1

      Engineering students just copy from each other.

      I noticed that some students shared answers to assignments, but I never noticed students within the engineering department cheating on exams. I seem to recall seeing somebody cheating on a chemistry exam, and a non-elective history course. *shrug* Perhaps it's because I went to a small school.

    59. Re:No engineering? by HikingStick · · Score: 1

      Actually, I was one of those kids who, when allowed, filled my crib sheet with facts and figures in miniscule type, writing in multiple orientations on the paper, and using multiple ink colors for multiple "layers" of information. The prof later confided to me what I discovered on my own--the creation of a crib sheet is just one more interaction with information that helps students internalize it.

      After writing those crib sheets, I found I rarely used them (unless I was looking for some specific, obscure points that was sure to score brownie points with the instructor).

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    60. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a similar experience back at school:

      We pupils needed a pocket calculator for a test in physics. But the only calculator I had was my new HP48GX (spent all my money on it, so couldn't afford an additional simple calculator). I asked the teacher whether I was allowed to use this HP, noting it could convert units, solve equations--and it was programmable, anyway, so it could do anything I wanted. I really didn't want to fail if he'd find this out on his own later, so I told him everything upfront, fearing he'd force me to buy or borrow some other calculator!

      But he replied: "Anonymous Coward," [well, I had another name back then ...] "if you can handle this calculator during the test without making any stupid error, then you certainly do understand all the physics and mathematics involved. Of course you can use it!" If all teachers/professors/officers were as intelligent!

      Just for the records, I didn't even use the advanced features, but it was a relief I could enter the operator after the numbers ... I hate everything non-RPN. :)

    61. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting? No.
      Funny? Very.

    62. Re:No engineering? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      There are valuable humanities courses, but yea, there is a lot of bullshit as well. I was a Cog. Sci. major (Philosophy, Comp Sci, Neuroanatomy), so I was forever dealing with people on both sides of the fence.

      Math people largely think that all humanities are a complete waste, and extra-ordinarily easy: then they take a hard class, do poorly, and claim that this proves it's all bullshit, rather than proving that there are actual skills involved and they don't have them.

      Humanities people by and large think that heavy science loads are inapplicable to the "real world" and only useful if you're going to be doing it for a living. They get bitter if you try to make them take those courses, and therefore there are always a few easy science classes out there for the humanities people.

      I went to a school that required 2 math, 2 science, 2 english, and 2 sociology classes to graduate, regardless of your major. It was a good thing. You could tell because EVERYONE hated it.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    63. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had an AWESOME Calc / Physics professor. He would administer tests open book, open notes, open calculator. His tests were crafted so that if you didn't know your shit, no amount of calculator work or notes would help, so he didn't care.

      Then he would call each student into his office to grade the test in front of the student. If there was a problem, he would talk you through it, and if you showed your work, it would be easier for you to defend your thought processes. If you were able to say "well I applied this rule and then got stuck and tried this... etc" then he would give you points that he felt were fair and you could contest him on that if you were able to defend yourself well enough.

      That was, by far, the best instruction I have ever received.

    64. Re:No engineering? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll reply to you of a few possible posts.

      I begin to think that meta-organization is becoming more important now. The guy with "bring in the grad student" did it right. It's how business really works. Courses reward the Specialist, but business rewards the Jack-of-all-trades if he can make himself CEO and is really savvy with hiring.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    65. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a professor at my school who said students could bring "one sheet of notes" to the test.

      The students, including my friend, got together after class, bought a white bed sheet and covered it with formulas.

      At the beginning of the test, the students hung it at the front of the room.

      From then on this professor gave more specific guidelines.

    66. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      So who did write them for you?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    67. Re:No engineering? by melikamp · · Score: 1

      May be I am misunderstanding, but isn't (A && ~A) tautologically false?

    68. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In my time at school some of our teachers gave us free hand - bring what you want and see if you succeed. The problem was that these were the most difficult exams of them all as they required:

      • understanding of the tested subject
      • ability to solve puzzles related to subject

      And as such exams are time limited no dead tree or electronic material can really help you solve the task in time if you have no clue. These were exams I actually enjoyed as I could pass (albeit not w/o difficulties) and majority of my colleagues (the cheaters and those that learned by the letter) needed few more attempts usually.

      They're also the most representative of what most people need to do in the real world. Solve problems in real-time with access to reference material if they need it.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    69. Re:No engineering? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      I find that sad and a little tragic. What school was this at?

    70. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      If the dimensions weren't specified he could have twisted it into a moebus strip.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    71. Re:No engineering? by rtb61 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      There was once a time, when all those essays, reports and projects were treated just as a learning aid and only added a minor percentage to the final grade, everything was basically down to tests and exams, your passed or failed based upon your ability to recall information and handle the stress.

      Apparently this created a gender bias whereby makes performed better in this regard forcing a grading restructuring. Now when you think about high grades can be achieved for not necessarily doing the work but for the cheerleader set to seduce geeks and nerds into doing the work. There are courses that have no exams at all and all grades are based upon 'er' project work.

      Now personalty I have found the work reflects the exam style of grading, where you were under pressure and expected to be able to produce the answers immediately and any project work was expected to be credit worthy only any higher and you were wasting time on that project when you should have already moved onto the next.

      Likely I am a bit biased, as I always seemed to be able to guess the right areas to cram the day before exams, making them a less stressful experience once started.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    72. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he "wrote" it. :P

    73. Re:No engineering? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Like I said, it was the worst in the intro classes like Mech 101. In the higher level classes it didn't occur too much during exams, but exams were only a small portion of the grade for most classes.

    74. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, I've got that one beat. I took a Physical Chemistry exam once where the professor told us that we could bring in our notes, textbook, books from the library, computer, copies of old exams in the test bank, ANYTHING we wanted. It was a fucking disaster. The average on that exam (class size ~ 200) was 40%. I scored a respectable 68% with a 3x5 note card.

    75. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the night before his assignment was due in he came and asked me for some help. I proceeded to waffle on about the book based on the leading question he had been given regarding it. He sat there with his pad and took notes as I pointed out the sections of the book that were relevant to the question and gave some examples of the how the technological change (nanotechnology) in the book had changed the separate societies that are mentioned. It probably also helped that I was studying Physics so had some idea of nanotechnology.

      After an hour or so he took his 1 or 2 sides of A4 notes and went upstairs to churn out an essay based on my ideas. He gained a first for that paper, and permanently changed my opinion of humanities subjects: Most of them are so easy to pass they should not even be taught in the same college as the sciences of engineering subjects, they are certainly not the same academic level and do not require the same amount of study. All they require is the ability to structure your ideas (or someone else's) into a well formed English essay.

      I have a humanities degree and an engineering degree. Neither was easier than the other to pass, they just required very different skills. I note that you "waffled" but he had to "structure" the ideas into a "well-formed English essay". Don't you wish more engineers had that ability? And why do you assume he only used your ideas? To get a first he would have had to have shown how it linked in to the rest of the course, something he would have had to do himself when he got back upstairs.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    76. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see a slashdot user write a paper in "philosophy, ethics, architecture, etc" as well.

      I've done all of those, and looking back in this thread there's at least one other /. user who almost certainly has.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    77. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you read the news?

      THIS world is like that :P

    78. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm studying engineering. We get a big ringbinder full of databooks with almost every nontrivial equation we'll need. You need to basically know them all or at least very well where they are because the exams are short, but it beats the science students here who have to memorise anything. Also, we often get the answers (Not just the numbers, but the full worked solutions) to stuff we have to do. The work doesn't actually count for anything, and most people realise there's no point in copying it all out and impressing the marker since you'll just fail the real exam, horribly.

    79. Re:No engineering? by onkelonkel · · Score: 3, Funny

      The professor supervising the final English 100 exam tells the 800 or so students in the exam hall “You will have 3 hours to complete this exam, not one minute more. Start writing when I say go and put your pens down when I stop.” When the three hours is up all the students stop writing except for one. He keeps furiously scribbling away as the papers are collected and stacked on the professors desk. As the last papers are stacked the student runs up to the front, paper in hand. The professor says “You know the rules; there is no way I am going to let you hand in that paper.” The student draws himself to his full height and in tones of Shakespearean high dudgeon says “Do you have any idea who I am!” “No” says the professor, and “I really don’t care.” “Good” says the student, slides his paper into the middle of one of the stacks of exams and walks out the door.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    80. Re:No engineering? by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Preparing a good note sheet requires the student to understand what formulae are important, and write them down

      in a quick and easy-access format

      That means going through the course material while thinking hard about the concepts and often means you understand the subject matter much better by the time you are done.

      I often prepared a "cheat sheet" even where it was forbidden, only to find out I did not need it during the test. Preparing the sheet actually was a good way of learning the stuff.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    81. Re:No engineering? by shadowrat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      this is OT, but in the real world, none of this is considered cheating. I'm a software engineer. I consider the lone wolf programmer who does everything in secrecy on his own to be a bad fit for my team. I want people to work together. I want people to compare notes and review each other's code. I want multiple people to be involved in working on one cohesive application.

      I suspect other engineering tasks are similar. When someone is building a building, is it forbidden for the other engineers to work together?

      Even when it comes to writing reports, having someone else do it for you is considered outsourcing and the ability to manage outsourced work is highly sought after.

    82. Re:No engineering? by dhermann · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, what an amusing and highly unverifiable anecdote! On the internet, no less!

    83. Re:No engineering? by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      bezier?

    84. Re:No engineering? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yea. If you can derive a contradiction from the negation of the corresponding conditional you know that the argument is logically valid. Or, in english, if you can prove that the negation of a proposition leads to a logical contradiction, then the original statement is true.

      You can also use it to prove points that are irrelevant to your givens. Since (in deduction) your premises are all assumed to be true, if you can use them to form a logical contradiction, then you've basically divided by zero in that modality, and everything is equally valid.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    85. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a professor who did the same thing, Anything that would fit on the 8.5x11 sheet of paper could be used during the test. So a student brought in a physics grad student to stand on the paper and the teacher allowed it. He modified the terms after that semester.

    86. Re:No engineering? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      If it were a management class, sure. But for a class where your grade depends on your ability to exhibit a mastery of a skill, then that's absurd.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    87. Re:No engineering? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

      That does make it difficult to stand on. I am guessing the post-grad must have had small feet.

      --
      -
    88. Re:No engineering? by Imagix · · Score: 1

      I'd have to agree. Anytime the prof said that you could bring a cheat sheet (or worse, open-book exam), you knew you were in for a ride. This wasn't going to be a regurgitation test. And usually if you had to look the stuff up, you wouldn't have time to complete the test.

    89. Re:No engineering? by xSauronx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm going to university now. Im an older student, at 27 years old, and started in a community college wit the intent to transfer out. At the CC I had to take intro trig and college algebra.

      I hadn't had a math class in a decade.

      Turned out....the math professor at this little dinky community college was an *excellent* teacher. Very thorough, very knowledgeable, very very good at teaching the material. The guy had a Ph D from a state university (maybe in physics? I dont recall) so everything he had to teach here was stuff he knew inside and out.

      He allowed notes for the tests "write whatever you want on it. formulas, sample problems, fill it up, I dont care. If you dont know the material you will fail"

      He wasnt kidding. He even gave out last years tests (he always rewrote them) as study guides for the next test. If you didnt really know what you were doing, you were going to fail.

      Wish I had more teachers like him. He was thorough, interesting, and an excellent communicator of the material (this is a huge issue with a lot of instructors)

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    90. Re:No engineering? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

      Cheating in engineering will only get you so far. Early courses are generally large enough that a certain percentage of cheating will go unnoticed. As you reach your upper graduate coursework, it will become cleaer who learned the earlier material and who relied upon others.

      --
      -
    91. Re:No engineering? by xSauronx · · Score: 1

      My professor allowed notes and calculators, but *required* work to be shown. If you didnt show it and had the right answer, it was wrong. Unless the problem was tremendously easy (say, something easier than a basic unit conversion) you had to show how you got your answer.

      In that case, if the answer was wrong but the process was right (perhaps you fat-fingered on your calculator or shifted your decimal to the wrong place) youd at least get partial credit for knowing *how* to do the problem

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    92. Re:No engineering? by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      in the real world, none of this is considered cheating

      That depends what you're talking about. Is a job interview "in the real world"? Is a bid for a contract "in the real world"? Sometimes you do want assurances that the work you are looking at was done by the person who is showing it to you.

      I'm a software engineer. I consider the lone wolf programmer who does everything in secrecy on his own to be a bad fit for my team. I want people to work together. I want people to compare notes and review each other's code. I want multiple people to be involved in working on one cohesive application.

      Yes, but you also want to know that everyone on your team could in theory have done their parts without help, given enough time. It's the difference between being a valuable part of the team and being dead wood.

    93. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But those who possess both skill sets get to skip half the classes and still construct solid essays from whatever facts they remembered for A's and B's in these classes. This is why my fellow high school, honors classmates and myself referred to essay writing as "bullshitting".

    94. Re:No engineering? by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      How the hell is this flamebait?

    95. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey look at me i'm somersault and i have teh assburgers

      everyone treat me special because my parents didn't smack me around enough

      forever alone...

    96. Re:No engineering? by RobertinXinyang · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have run into the, "single page of notes," option many times. I have to say that it is extremely helpful to me as I have a poor memory of things like formulas and names. This is due to a named and diagnosable cognitive issue. Being in my final semester of an MBA program (with no cheating, mind you), I make up for it in other ways.

      I remember one instructors comment on the idea of books during exams and tests. It was during my undergrad yeas sin on of my engineering classes. His comment was, "no one is ever going to ask you to do anything significant and tell you that you can't use the book." In fact, I have found the opposite, people love it when they can come me with a question and I am able to, quickly, give them a referenced answer.

      Returning to the point of note sheets in exams; one thing I do not like doing is giving people copies of my exam notes. The reason for this is simple. There is tremendous value in making the note sheet. Further, it is personalized in regards to style. I tell people asking for a copy that, of course, they can ave a copy; however, to do well on the exam, they should use it as a basis for forming their own note sheet, not to use the one I had written as it was.

      That advise evolved to small study groups helping to insure that all at the study group had written a note sheet, and understood how to use what they had written (slightly off topic, running these groups is a great way for nerds to pick up on impossibly hot woman). I have sense taken this process to another step in my classes, I ask that all study sheets be written in the students own hand, to be turned in with the test for comparison to the handwriting on the exam. It should come as no surprise that there is a direct correlation between extensive note sheets and not only the students exam performance; but with, admittedly based on conversations with students, the students, overall, grasp of the subject.

    97. Re:No engineering? by IorDMUX · · Score: 1

      One 8-12x11" sheet of paper. Both sides. Put whatever you want on it. The kids who printed it up with every possible item in 3-point font failed, those who put down the relevant concepts and formulae in a quick and easy-access format succeeded, because the test was actually structured to test whether you had learned the concepts and how to apply them.

      Indeed. Before I switched to EE, I was a physics major. In both the (good) second and third year Electricity & Magnetism physics classes I took, I tended to perform the best on exams where I memorized the least.

      Not intentionally, of course... I would show up for the exam with my sheet of notes, and realize, looking at the first exam question, that I had no idea how to do this problem. But I remembered Maxwell's Equations, and I remembered my 3-d calculus shortcuts, and I remember us applying these techniques in class, so I was able to derive everything I needed from this starting point.

      I aced both classes, and can still (6 years later) derive dozens of principles I haven't used since switching my major ... as long as I can assume the metaphorical, spherical cow.

      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
    98. Re:No engineering? by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      I had professors who simply gave every student the chance to bring a note sheet to the exam.

      One 8-12x11" sheet of paper. Both sides. Put whatever you want on it.

      I'd put a netbook on it. Problem solved.

    99. Re:No engineering? by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Our electronic circuits prof always used 3.14 as the answer. But he'd throw in the occasional 1.73 or 2.72 just for fun. (root 3 and e).

    100. Re:No engineering? by SETIGuy · · Score: 1

      Just because this guy isn't qualified to do that sort of work, doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there doing it and making a good living at it. If there's a need, someone will fill it, whether or not it's moral, legal, or safe. Welcome to Econ 101. I sure that the guy from TFA above writes papers for that class.

    101. Re:No engineering? by Latinhypercube · · Score: 0

      He's not saying those jobs are unimportant. Just that anyone with a brain and a spare hour or two could do them. Capitalism in action.

    102. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I graded for some of my professors when I was in engineering school. The people who couldn't follow directions (copy the problem statement, identify the known values, put your name on the top of every page, staple the pages together in order, etc.) were the ones who quit going to class by mid-semester, and who quit. I could reliably predict (95% accuracy or better) who would fail freshman classes and drop out of school based on seeing only the first 2 homework assignments.

      Then again, it is also theoretically possible to get a degree in engineering without having ever arrived at a correct answer, getting partial credit for following directions and keeping the work neat (graduate with a low C average). In practice, it never happens - people who can follow the directions and give answers that make sense in the context of the problem (correct sign, order of magnitude, and units) tend to be able to get the right answers.

    103. Re:No engineering? by infolation · · Score: 1

      Pierre Bézier

    104. Re:No engineering? by Moryath · · Score: 1

      No spherical chickens?

    105. Re:No engineering? by Khopesh · · Score: 1

      FTFS: "I've written for courses in history, cinema, labor relations, pharmacology, theology, sports management, maritime security, airline services, sustainability, municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, postmodern architecture, anthropology, literature, and public administration."

      Hah! I'd love to see how this guy would do a physics or calculus paper...

      Keep reading. If you quoted it, I shouldn't have to tell you to RTFA...

      As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything.

      --
      Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
    106. Re:No engineering? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Or, in english, if you can prove that the negation of a proposition leads to a logical contradiction, then the original statement is true.

      While I know what you mean, I bet Godel would have a field day with that statement.

      Too bad about the flamebait, though. Got a stalker?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    107. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 1

      My dad smacked me around more than average from what I can tell. Mild aspergers is a possibility I suppose. I've had a few gfs too but I don't particularly care if I'm single forever more. Was all that meant to be particularly funny?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    108. Re:No engineering? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      it is also theoretically possible to get a degree in engineering without having ever arrived at a correct answer, getting partial credit for following directions and keeping the work neat (graduate with a low C average). In practice, it never happens - people who can follow the directions and give answers that make sense in the context of the problem (correct sign, order of magnitude, and units) tend to be able to get the right answers.

      Interesting hypotenuse. I take that as a challenge, sur.

    109. Re:No engineering? by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1

      Given the topic of the article, I think it's a safe bet that ethics don't matter (or don't matter that much) for a number of this person's clients.

    110. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA
      He stated he doesn't do anything with math in it.

    111. Re:No engineering? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      I note that you "waffled" but he had to "structure" the ideas into a "well-formed English essay". Don't you wish more engineers had that ability? And why do you assume he only used your ideas? To get a first he would have had to have shown how it linked in to the rest of the course, something he would have had to do himself when he got back upstairs.

      Just what ability are we talking about here? There's no reason to assume that what the OP "waffled" about made any sense whatsoever except in his own mind. If that was the case, then the final essay based on those waffles was pure form, no content.

      Here's an old experiment worth reading about on that very topic.

    112. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to assume that the person writing the essay knew nothing about the course or the book, either.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    113. Re:No engineering? by shawb · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, it's obvious that you cheated because of something you did right: accent marks. It's possible that you are the exception and know the control characters, but more likely you just copied and pasted the name in from another source. Probably Wikipedia.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    114. Re:No engineering? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Except that he ended up being a labourer (according to the OP), which is somewhat unlikely for true intellectual types. That's no proof, but it raises questions about your interpretation.

    115. Re:No engineering? by ildon · · Score: 1

      He can if it's OR and not XOR.

    116. Re:No engineering? by ildon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm an engineer (well, comp sci, so sort of) and I can write A+ English papers all day. I just fucking hate doing it.

    117. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a math class of mine, our professor told us to bring up to two sides of a cheat sheet.

      A friend of mine turned the textbook into a (really long) mobius strip, and got away with using only one side. The professor was amused, and let him use it.

    118. Re:No engineering? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Mine did that, usually in the lecture before the exam. First thing I did when studying for the exams: rewrite the cheat sheets by hand.

      Unless the prof sucks, the value of cheat sheets is in the creating, not in the using.

    119. Re:No engineering? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You don't happen to still have that proof, do you? I'm intrigued.

    120. Re:No engineering? by FoolishOwl · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was guessing that the point of the exercise was that there was some flaw with the givens -- a reductio ad absurdum.

    121. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      I think it represents the market for humanities degrees.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    122. Re:No engineering? by FoolishOwl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Neither was easier than the other to pass, they just required very different skills. I note that you "waffled" but he had to "structure" the ideas into a "well-formed English essay".

      I certainly do.

      I've recently started an entry-level job in IT, in a network operations center. The computer networks we monitor are quite different from each other, with a mix of Linux, Unix, and Windows servers; the networks of corporations and teams are even more complicated. I've found my co-workers to be generally knowledgeable about the technologies involved, though each of us has a particular forte, of course.

      What has really stuck out is that there's a much wider divergence in my co-worker's abilities to explain what we're doing. Some are quite good at setting out context, and how particular details of technology and procedure fit into that context; others, when questioned, just explain technical details, neglecting context; and a few, when questioned, will just jump into fixing a problem, making no effort to explain what they are doing or why. The training documentation consists largely of lists of URLs for Web frontends to tools and archives of documentation, without a word of explanation what the tools are for or which of the thousands of linked documents are important to read. Many of those links are dead; most of the linked documents are just as poorly written.

      In general, I've seen that an enormous amount of time is wasted by poor communication, in particular by the neglect of context. Data is a necessary condition for knowledge, but not a sufficient condition.

      The liberal arts, for all the bad reputation they've gotten, are necessary and sorely under-appreciated by the tech community, because the liberal arts are supposed to teach the art of communication. In saying that, I must admit that there's good reason for the bad reputation of the liberal arts and the social sciences, as there certainly are a lot of students who coast through their coursework, on their way to careers as pointy-haired bosses. Part of the trouble there is the inflation in credentials; another part is the bizarre world of managerial culture. But in general, I think we'd be better off if more people took the liberal arts more seriously, and if more science and engineering students took more humanities courses, even if we had fewer liberal arts majors and more science and engineering courses for liberal arts majors.

    123. Re:No engineering? by blargfellow · · Score: 1

      Purdue.

    124. Re:No engineering? by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      I disallow writing anything else on it so it's not a how-small-can-you-write exercise.

      Ice-cold can of Coke + phase-change ink from erasable pen -> I pass your physics class :)

    125. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has been my experience at the community college. My community college math teachers were frankly phenomenal. They knew the material inside out and knew that teaching was their entire reason for being there, so they did it very, very well. My favorite teacher I followed for 2 years, and she gave out copies of quizzes, homework, etc., along with solutions afterward, so you knew what was going to be on the midterms and final. The class still followed the normal grade curve...even though she didn't grade on a curve. And if you didn't know what was going on, you *would* get nailed on the test, because it was a novel application of the procedures.

      She was the hardest-working math teacher I've ever met. :)

      Weekly quizzes and in-class worksheets (which she would make up anew each time she taught a class), which she'd have graded and returned by the next day of class, able to give her lectures without notes or a book...I only hope I can find some teachers like that in the 4 year I've entered.

    126. Re:No engineering? by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Lofti Zadeh has mod points?

    127. Re:No engineering? by Magic5Ball · · Score: 1

      Or that person uses a European keyboard layout, or an enlightened text input system such as found on OS X. To compose an accented character requires pressing Option and the character representing of the diacritic, and then typing the character on which it is to appear. Option+e Shift+e produces É. Memorizing, as for the extended ASCII control characters, does not scale well to all of Unicode.

      Like input systems, academic systems vary in different parts of the world. I look forward to publishing a paper deserving the honour of being recited from memory (if only in parts) by scholars inspired by the Confucian system. Until I produce much more significant work, I'll just have to make do with being cited by people who've only skimmed the abstracts.

      --
      There are 1.1... kinds of people.
    128. Re:No engineering? by noodler · · Score: 1

      "Hah! I'd love to see how this guy would do a physics or calculus paper..."

      I'm far more interested in how he managed to write 5000 pages worth of scientific papers in one year, as he claims in the article.

    129. Re:No engineering? by EdgeyEdgey · · Score: 1

      Well, the GP post was certainly well structured. No waffle there.

      --
      [Intentionally left blank]
    130. Re:No engineering? by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to assume that the person writing the essay knew nothing about the course or the book, either.

      Not sure about the rest of the course but I know he never actually read the book.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    131. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Please don't feed the trolls. There is little chance that they will starve and go away but they seem to have less energy when they get less food.

      IMO responding to emotion-related trolls is a sign of depression, go do something that makes you happy :p

      (That's just what it means to me, though, you could be different)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    132. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This has been my experience at the community college. My community college math teachers were frankly phenomenal.

      I have one of those lame degrees from a community college too, I've been to two of them. The last math class I took was a business math class and it was stupid and boring and even when there was a VERY easy way to shorten a step algebraically the instructor would not show it. When I am showing people how to solve problems with algebra you know it's easy because of what my last math class was like; It was a Pre-Algebra class taught by an Asian guy with shit pronounciation. I could literally understand one word in three. I was failing so I dropped out; I didn't have time or money for tutoring atop working full time and going to school full time.
      The plural of anecdote is not data, but what you should take away from this is that great instructors aren't at community colleges, but simply where you find them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    133. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Is this flamebait because it is apparently sexist? It is a proven fact that men and women are different.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    134. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I have a humanities degree and an engineering degree. Neither was easier than the other to pass, they just required very different skills. I note that you "waffled" but he had to "structure" the ideas into a "well-formed English essay".

      You're really reaching here. He waffled because it was verbal and from memory. However, this is still cheating because the assignment was to read, understand, interpret. He skipped the reading and the understanding was done by someone else. The student in question is now swinging a hammer so this is a pretty reasonable interpretation of events.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    135. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      When I went to work for Tivoli systems, shortly after the IBM acquisition, there were two call tracking software packages used. One was the classic IBM RETAIN application which they run on various mainframes. The other was an OS/2-based screen scraper for it called ACME. Any time RETAIN was updated ACME would start to fail in new and wonderful ways, so I learned raw RETAIN which is cryptic but not really that hard.

      This is interesting because when I got there, there was one bad, old, outdated cheat sheet being photocopied and passed around between a handful of RETAIN users. Now, we're talking about a support organization where nearly every member had real systems administration experience, and people are still worshipping at the god of Xerox. So I whipped up a cute little colored HTML page in Netscape composer, with nice appropriate-color mockups of the tn3270 screens. And I installed Win2k on my OS/2 machine and used it to play Diablo after hours until I got a PC fast enough to play games at home; IIRC I moved out to Texas with a 486SX.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    136. Re:No engineering? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I have been on medication for depression a couple of times, but just try to deal with it naturally these days. Doing Parkour has kept me pretty happy this year, but I've been trying to rest my calves the last week or two since I've obviously been overtraining.. :/

      --
      which is totally what she said
    137. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      I never disputed that it was cheating (though only at a marginal level), I only disputed the claim that humanities degrees are not at the same academic level as science and engineering degrees.

      On one course I did at college (pre-university) one guy was struggling badly with calculus. He'd failed badly once, and had to pass his resit to stay on the course and to keep his job (for which the course was mandatory). Two of us sat there and coached him, not in the whole calculus syllabus but in the three specific types of problem that had always come up on the paper before ("If it's a polynomial times a trig function, integrate by parts..."). At the end of that, if he'd been presented with a random calculus problem he would have had no clue at all how to proceed. But he knew the types of problem the examiner always set, and he passed comfortably. Incidentally, he never once needed calculus in his job. Was that cheating? Well, he was supposed to learn the syllabus, but used somebody else's knowledge to extract just those bits he needed to get through the assessment. How is that different to what happened in the case of that book assignment?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    138. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How is that different to what happened in the case of that book assignment?

      Homie is now wearing a yellow plastic hat and steeltoes possibly in part because he never learned to read and interpret written communications. It's a commonly lacking skill. Indeed, a skill people really need to succeed. The guy in your anecdote clearly didn't need the calculus, but everyone needs language skills. That's how it's different. It's not the cheating that differs, it's the results.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    139. Re:No engineering? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      No doubt. Been around long enough. Strange place to pick though...

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    140. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      That has nothing to do with whether Humanities or numerate subjects are a higher academic standard.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    141. Re:No engineering? by Slime-dogg · · Score: 1

      I have a humanities degree and an engineering degree. Neither was easier than the other to pass, they just required very different skills. I note that you "waffled" but he had to "structure" the ideas into a "well-formed English essay". Don't you wish more engineers had that ability? And why do you assume he only used your ideas? To get a first he would have had to have shown how it linked in to the rest of the course, something he would have had to do himself when he got back upstairs.

      I have a CS degree and work in the industry, and this is fairly noticeable. One striking issue is that the way a programmer or "math-head" communicates is completely different from the expectation that the "Arts-Head" understands. The problem arises within the communication channels between developers and end users. Developers will list out key points and assume that the end user has the capacity and understanding of the key points to reassemble them in the way the developer expects.

      This is where there truly is value in the humanities. I've done all the math, science, and "difficult" material. Sure, it is brutal to those who don't understand. However, instruction in philosophy, languages, sociology, psychology, anthropology, or medicine could be just as brutal. Those studies are fascinating, because they deal with all of the shades of gray that appear in the world. There aren't strict rule sets that force a black and white way of solving things.

      In CS, grammars are the backbone of languages. In humanity, grammar is a fluid structure that is subject to the whims of society, and its use of natural languages. I don't think that there are many people who can grasp both of those concepts at the same time, at all. Math and science are no more difficult than humanities, than humanities are more difficult than math and science.

      --
      You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
    142. Re:No engineering? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      We're way off in offtopic land, but since we're here, why not play it out? If I wanted to be on topic, I wouldn't have commented on an offtopic thread.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    143. Re:No engineering? by digitig · · Score: 1

      Those studies are fascinating, because they deal with all of the shades of gray that appear in the world. There aren't strict rule sets that force a black and white way of solving things.

      That was the biggest jolt when I started doing the humanities. In engineering and CS, when I turned in an assignment I usually had a pretty good idea how well I'd done, because there was usually a correct answer, and there was usually a way I could check the answer I'd submitted. In the humanities there is rarely a correct answer and what matters is how well you consider conflicting arguments and evidence and how well you make your own argument. I suspect this is why, although there are fiercely-held positions in the humanities, the humanities are much less prone to "religious" wars than geekdom is. The "pure" geek expects there to be a single correct answer to "how should a program be indented" or "how should variables be named". The humanities person is far more likely to see the issues as debatable.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    144. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo.

      I'm one of those Profs who allows cheat sheets on exams. And the reason I do it is because it helps give students a way to structure their study time.

    145. Re:No engineering? by izomiac · · Score: 1

      In my time at school some of our teachers gave us free hand - bring what you want and see if you succeed. The problem was that these were the most difficult exams of them all

      In other words, a test that mirrors real world applications? One that tests comprehension rather than rote memorization? IMHO these kind of tests are rare for two reasons. The first is that they're hard to make and almost impossible to grade objectively, as there usually isn't just one "best" way of doing something. The second is because student efforts don't correlate as well with performance, so the student who studies inefficiently or lacks talent cries foul when another does better with far less work.

    146. Re:No engineering? by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      I left out part of the quote I was directly responding to.

      I note that you "waffled" but he had to "structure" the ideas into a "well-formed English essay". Don't you wish more engineers had that ability?

      That was probably obvious, but I hate it when I introduce errors through mistakes during revision.

    147. Re:No engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a professor that also allowed us to bring all the stuff we wanted to the final exam. He recommended us to bring sheets with all the formulae and the notes he provided, written by him.
      The problem was that he was an awful professor and nobody who assisted his classes had a clue of the subject (statistics).
      I assisted to only the first classes, and then I gave up, as many of my mates did.
      I never studied the subject... until the day of the exam. I spent the night before googling good tutorials and guides about statistics. I have good googling skills and I'm able to read fast and rapidly discard bad tutorials. After printing all stuff I selected, the next day I went to the exam, and actually started to learn the subject while in the exam.
      It was amazing. All was very clear then, thanks to the well written notes I found the night before.
      If I remember correctly less than 20% passed the test, and I was above the average of those who passed.

      It amazes me how well written notes can make you understand difficult subjects faster and better.

    148. Re:No engineering? by MichaelKristopeit194 · · Score: 1
      "Mikey Kristopeity" is operated by a pathetic individual attempting to steal my identity.

      to the individual responsible: i assume you welcome death. present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    149. Re:No engineering? by MichaelKristopeit195 · · Score: 1
      "MichaelKristopeit0" is operated by a pathetic individual attempting to steal my identity.

      to the individual responsible: i assume you welcome death. present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    150. Re:No engineering? by MichaelKristopeit191 · · Score: 1
      you spend your days pretending to be me. i spend my days actually being me. do you NEED to be me? OR do you simply NEED to NOT BE YOURSELF?

      you're completely pathetic.

      "MichaelKristopeit0" is operated by a pathetic individual attempting to steal my identity.

      to the individual responsible: i assume you welcome death. present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

    151. Re:No engineering? by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 1

      A variant of that idea I rather liked. I had a professor who liked to give 'tests of 2'... i.e. every answer on the test was '2'.... but better show your work.

      Haha, at Cal, every homework for my Signals and Systems course involved at least half the answers being 0. How you got the zero mattered more than the answer.

    152. Re:No engineering? by MichaelKristopeit212 · · Score: 0
      re-moderating your troll posts with your network of moderation enable accounts?

      you're completely pathetic.

      "Mikey Kristopeity" is operated by a pathetic individual attempting to steal my identity. they hypocritically game the systems of control on this website while condemning my use of multiple user accounts.

      to the individual responsible: present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i'll bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

  2. It's the American dream by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    If you have enough money, you no longer have to try.

    By the way, I see obvious homework projects on the freelancing sites all the time now (some with the actual homework document posted). Thankfully, myself and most of my colleagues avoid bidding on them.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:It's the American dream by Auroch · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you have money, donate enough of it to a university and get an honorary doctorate.

      --
      Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
    2. Re:It's the American dream by rwv · · Score: 1

      If you have enough money, you no longer have to try.

      I'm not sure I think this is a bad thing. The whole idea of "retirement" is that you've worked hard enough that you no longer need to work.

      The trouble is when people are spending money that they didn't do any meaningful work to earn. Thought, if mommy and daddy have worked so hard that they can afford to let you cheat your way through school at least their wealth is being redistributed. I guess the thing to be weary of is what happens once the cheaters get high-ranking positions in the business or political world. That's when the entire economic system turns to shit.

      Is their any way keeping track of the cheaters and blacklisting them from ever managing any sizable projects or organizations?

    3. Re:It's the American dream by h00manist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...what happens once the cheaters get high-ranking positions in the business or political world. That's when the entire economic system turns to shit.

      Read any newspapers lately? Heard of Enron, Tyco, Ireland, Greece, Fannie and Freddie?

      Is their any way keeping track of the cheaters and blacklisting them from ever managing any sizable projects or organizations?

      You could start with the Fortune 500 and extrapolate to any organization with similar accounting and management methods. Um, yes, that's basically just regular accepted business method - lies and obfuscation.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    4. Re:It's the American dream by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      And so, the cheaters from college are potential corporate psychopaths: not interested in anything but their own profit, and won't hesitate to use any means, legal or illegal, to achieve that. And to hell everybody else.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    5. Re:It's the American dream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is us who are dumb for not spotting and/or reporting obvious manipulations.

  3. Impressive, but.. by intellitech · · Score: 1

    Stroke your ego harder, why don't you.

    --
    vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
    1. Re:Impressive, but.. by angiasaa · · Score: 1

      Once the muscles on one arm start bulging obviously more than the other arm, he ego will take a beating but everyone will know. :)

      --
      Geekism is your _only_ God!
  4. And try as he might, by angiasaa · · Score: 1

    he could not find a better employer! :)

    --
    Geekism is your _only_ God!
    1. Re:And try as he might, by h00manist · · Score: 1

      Maybe he was turned down as a speech witer. He obviouly likes to let people know the truth eventually.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    2. Re:And try as he might, by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      It pays better than many (most?) non-tenure-track faculty positions. Adjunct faculty get really low pay for huge amounts of work grading the papers that he writes. The comments on the chronicle site were great-- even a few people suggested that he pull a milo minderbinder and hire himself out as a grader as well.

    3. Re:And try as he might, by angiasaa · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I think he's doing a great job. But wasting his talent.

      I loved the comments. And the fact that he's willing to take a jab at the unshakable education system speaks volumes about his position on morality. It's a fine line to walk but he stands his ground firmly, and I feel it's an honest enterprise.

      He is not violating any laws.. In fact, if I look at the bigger picture, I'd say the system created him, not the other way around.

      --
      Geekism is your _only_ God!
  5. No science? by unixcrab · · Score: 1

    Interesting the lack of scientific subjects amongst his claims. Yes, he mentions psychology but I'm talking about things like physics and mathematics which are not that easy to plagiarise or regurgitate from other sources without justification.

    1. Re:No science? by Spad · · Score: 2, Informative

      Science & Engineering papers usually depend on new work or research, whereas a lot of the subjects he mentioned just want you to repeat whatever the current received wisdom is with your own little bit on why you agree with it

    2. Re:No science? by augustw · · Score: 1

      Science & Engineering papers usually depend on new work or research

      Not at undergraduate level they don't.

    3. Re:No science? by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      science and physics course work you can copy much easier by yourself as it's "absolute truth" from the course material(that's been running in any given university for couple of decades with the same problems and assigments). it's much harder to prove that you copied 1+1=2 than to prove that you copied sentences directly from someone else.

      here's a nice plagiarism tip: use a source that's in another language than the one you're submitting in, then just translate. it's a method many many many songwriters, book authors, reporters, national heros etc have used with great success. the less has been translated to any given language the easier it is.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:No science? by zandeez · · Score: 1

      I earned my Computer Science degree the old fashioned way. Hard Work. This is why the World is full of people who cannot do their own job properly, because someone else did the learning for their qualification.

    5. Re:No science? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect a combination of two factors:

      1. Humanities and soft sciences, in my experience, tend to be taught in courses whose grading depends much more on take-home essays than in class exams. Unless you have a smartphone with a nice camera, and a very on-the-ball internet cheating service, you can't really cheat in class over the internet; but doing so on a take home is absolutely trivial. Math and hard sciences often have take-home problem sets, some even worth a few points; but those are mostly just drill/practice for the exams that will curb-stomp you if you haven't done the work outside of class.

      2. I'm sure that internet cheating is a large enough business to support specialization of labor. The writer of TFA clearly specializes in writing. He/she probably has a good academic prose style, and good research skills, along with a jstor subscription or nearby university library. Quite possibly, he did a liberal arts or social science degree, which gave him the necessary practice; but found the job market unexciting with those credentials. Those things would equip him to produce adequate material in a wide variety of writing-heavy areas. If his skill is in writing, and he gets enough business, why would he turn away paying customers in order to brush up on his math, which, unless he has a genuinely unusual talent in the area, could take a couple of years? Presumably(and, taking a quick look at rentacoder, certainly), there are equivalent people who specialize in math, CS, and science. If his area of comparative advantage is writing, why go up against people who have a comparative advantage in other areas?

    6. Re:No science? by dargaud · · Score: 1

      here's a nice plagiarism tip: use a source that's in another language than the one you're submitting in, then just translate. it's a method many many many songwriters, book authors, reporters, national heros etc have used with great success. the less has been translated to any given language the easier it is.

      Yup, and the most well-known french 'rocker' who became famous cloning all the rock songs of the 50s is now the leading campaigner of DMCA-like campaigns in France against copyright infringement. Dishonesty doesn't kill and it pays very well indeed.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    7. Re:No science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Science & Engineering papers usually depend on new work or research

      Not at undergraduate level they don't.

      Really? I'm an Undergrad Engineer and I'm doing research (new, not reading and recompiling like an english major) for my classes

    8. Re:No science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interesting the lack of scientific subjects amongst his claims. Yes, he mentions psychology but I'm talking about things like physics and mathematics which are not that easy to plagiarise or regurgitate from other sources without justification.

      It's not that much more difficult. A friend's father wrote some twelve PhD dissertations for other people for a living, in mathematics and economics, at the Sorbonne no less (not exactly a degree mill). All the while he never completed his own, for personal reasons. Basically it's all about having at least some grasp of the ideas behind it, and about being express yourself in the language and jargon of the subject.

      If you know the methodology and the style of the typical paper or dissertation well enough, I don't think there is a fundamental difference between subjects. I have degrees in Oriental philology and CS, and I don't think it would have been that much easier to write a paper in the former just because it's not considered a "scientific subject". After all, knowing a language or two (to the extent that you can do critical editions of ancient texts in it) doesn't come cheaper than calculus or compiler construction. One shouldn't be too smug as an engineer - other people do hard work, too.

    9. Re:No science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are forums online where this kind of activity is rampant, so there's no need to pay someone to do it for you. It's easy to ask a quick "how do you find the partial...", question. Maths are abstract enough to capture a large knowledgeable audience on the interwebs whereas more specialized topics requiring actual research would never engender such replies.

    10. Re:No science? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Depends on the class. My senior design class involved original research that was published to a peer reviewed journal. Although, that's not typically the norm, however my group wasn't the only one that did so either.

    11. Re:No science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not at your University.

    12. Re:No science? by dkf · · Score: 1

      Maybe not at your trade school.

      FTFY!

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    13. Re:No science? by szquirrel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The writer of TFA clearly specializes in writing. He/she probably has a good academic prose style, and good research skills, along with a jstor subscription or nearby university library. Quite possibly, he did a liberal arts or social science degree, which gave him the necessary practice; but found the job market unexciting with those credentials.

      Go back and read TFA. I'm saying this not to be an asshole but because it's genuinely fascinating.

      The author states that:

      * He went to college to be a writer and found out that there's more than one way to get paid for what you write.

      * He uses mainly Wikipedia (for background), Amazon for the free pages, and Google Academics for the abstracts. Everything else he spins from educated guesswork and outright bullshit with lots and lots of filler.

      * He doesn't edit his work at all, this helps him work faster and heads off requests for him to "dumb it down".

      * His clients often thank him for making typos (presumably because it looks more authentic that way).

      He's not producing high quality work for top honors, he's producing "good enough" work for the sake of graduating at all. It may pay to get A's but C's get degrees, etc.

      I've said for years that not everybody needs a college degree. I would guess (I would hope) that this guy is helping along the raft of mediocre graduates who won't ever really use their degree except as resume fodder. Unfortunately this just devalues college degrees even more so that employers keep on requiring degrees for jobs that don't really need special training.

      He's right about one thing, blame the colleges that are more interested in collecting tuition fees than in producing actual, competent scholars.

      --
      Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
    14. Re:No science? by Alioth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And there's also an *awful* lot of waffle in these types of things, too.

      When I was a first year student, one thing I had to do on my degree course was Industrial Socieology. A group of us were sitting around in one of the computer rooms one evening, having been given an assignment for this course, and we were having a bit of a group-moan about the awful paper we had been forced to read first. The first paragraph of this tortured and abused the English language as far as it would go: a single run-on sentence full of long obscure words and we decided the authors of these ghastly things did it just to sound "academic" and "learned" when in fact the whole damned thing was completely devoid of actual content.

      So what we did is found some English "obfuscation" program on the net (I don't remember what it was called, this was a while ago, but think of one of those "Jivespeak" things except it turns what you wrote into "academicspeak") and turned our essays, by means of this program (and a little, but not a lot, of correction of the obvious grammatical problems the program introduced), to convert all our essays into "Sociologyspeak".

      A+ grades all round. What we handed in looked pretty unintelligible.

      Some years later I got around to reading "Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman". I was most amused to see that Richard Feynman had made exactly the same observation as we had (he explained he read this mountain of impenetrable prose which basically translated to "People listen to the radio. People read books", and that was about it). I felt vindicated :-)

    15. Re:No science? by isilrion · · Score: 1

      Science & Engineering papers usually depend on new work or research

      Not at undergraduate level they don't.

      Not in some universities, I grant you that. But at least in Cuban universities, undergraduate level science papers required a lot of original work... Even some undergraduate level exams could require a lot of original work. I used to teach one of them. A typical exam question was, "prove this theorem", where "this theorem" was a something I thought of when preparing the exam.

      (Actually, if you didn't include one question like that, some of the students would get really disappointed. Now that I think about it... I've haven't seen a student complaining that the exam/assignment was too easy since I left Cuba, even though the ones I've seen are much easier than their Cuban equivalent.)

    16. Re:No science? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Frankly you can get in trouble if it's too good in college. You don't want something that will stand out, especially if you're not going to buy ALL your papers.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    17. Re:No science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was Belgian until 3 years ago.

    18. Re:No science? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Just remember; one of your coworkers who can do the job probably enabled the rejects at someone else's workplace. The cheaters who graduated didn't cheat off each other.

    19. Re:No science? by samjam · · Score: 1

      Don't be slack.

      Post a link to this "Sociologyspeak" filter.

      Some of us have essays to write for friends before we can get back to coding.

    20. Re:No science? by HikingStick · · Score: 1
      I recently finished my M.A. degree and am not surprised by this individual's line of work, nor the ease with which he (and the hiring students) pull it off. I, too, am a writer and, given enough reference material, can work up a reasonable paper on almost any topic in a relatively short period of time. As I neared the end of my program, I considered hiring someone to write one nagging paper, just because life was crazy (with a full time job, wife, kids, etc.), but chose not to go down that path. As painful as the process was, I got it finished, and caught up on my sleep over the next two weekends.

      I've used the methodolgy he described before--using Internet sources to bring me up to speed (or narrow my focus tightly) on a topic before settling down to write, and then using online resources to help me identify additional supporting citations and materials. Finding a quote you like in another paper on the same topic isn't harmful, so long as you cite it propery, or simply use it to direct your search to other sources. All of my papers were expressions of my own knwolege and/or views, but I often needed to find additional sources and citations to satisify specific requirement for an assignment. I had one prof who required the use of different source material for each week's essays (beyond those listed as required reading, though the topics were covered fully by the multiple course texts), and this effectively turned the assignment into a farce (I'd write the essay and then seach my bookshelf or online to find other citations I could work in to support my existing arguments/points).

      I only had one paper that I came close to BS-ing my way through, and only because it was for an elective course that I really hadn't wanted to take (but did because the next available graduate elective I could use would have delayed my graduate another semester). You know what makes BS possible these days (imo)? It's the ability to write cohesively, with good sentence structure and grammar, and with an easy-to-follow flow (i.e., good transitions between paragraphs). I think most profs have seen writing skills sink so much that they are just awed when they encounter (outside of English or Journalism programs)students who can write well. A good writer can place enough specificity amidst ambiguity to come across as well-read and well-reasoned. Other factors are (imo, as both a recent graduate and as a one-time instructor myself) the push towards cookie-cutter education (standardization of course materials across all sections each and every term), a checklist mentality regarding required elements in a paper (e.g., syllabi listing that the final paper shall address specific points {details--not themes or topics} or include 'x' citations and sources), and time pressures on the instructors/TAs that are reviewing the papers.

      I do disagree with one of your summarized points, however:

      Everything else he spins from educated guesswork and outright bullshit with lots and lots of filler

      That may have been how it began, but if he has been doing it as long as he suggests, covering the range of topics he listed, he likely has learned much of it as well as if he had taken the courses himself. While I don't agree with what he's facilitating, he provides an example of someone who can acquire much knowledge without obtaining a degree in a specific field.

      I, for one, believe oral examinations should be part of every college program (except where not possible due to disability or medical condition), in addition to required papers, essays, and exams.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    21. Re:No science? by Chrononium · · Score: 1

      I'd like to offer that in my doctoral program (engineering/applied physics), nearly all the exams from the upper level graduate courses were take home, in that you couldn't possibly ask a meaningful question on an exam that would consume less than an hour of work, assuming the answer had to be rigorous. I never cheated, but honestly, the exam was sufficiently difficult and original that it didn't matter how many references you combed through: if you didn't know your stuff, then there was no way to complete the exam.

      The problems that this writer tackled (at least the ones he/she described) were largely analysis or superficial synthesis problems. That is, the material usually asked for heaps of creativity (same in my field), but without requiring a deep knowledge of the subject. Because when you get down to it, your professor is just about the same as other PhDs: at most a few doctoral degrees propping up lots of experience. The experience, however, is usually second hand, as the graduate students actually do the work and the professor just gets to read about it (if that). The architecture of Academia is setup allows for cheating, as the professor is rarely a deep expert in all of the subjects he/she must teach. Simply put, the systems of professors and peer review only have a shot at filtering crap from honest students.

    22. Re:No science? by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Hard sciences are tougher to write about without deep expertise in the field. It's not that the soft sciences are "bullshit-prone", but they convey their concepts verbally, which is easier to grasp intuitively without a formal education. To write a paper in mathematics, one must devote much time to even get the notation and understand how a proof works.

    23. Re:No science? by digitig · · Score: 1

      I did some research for my engineering degree, but most of it was "reading and recompiling". I also did some research for one of the English modules on my humanities degree (finding a statistical discriminator between two classes of text based on verb use -- the sort of thing used in forensic linguistics, which is pretty analytic nowadays).

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    24. Re:No science? by digitig · · Score: 1

      we decided the authors of these ghastly things did it just to sound "academic" and "learned" when in fact the whole damned thing was completely devoid of actual content.

      When I was doing humanities at university we looked at research on the extent to which people do that. It's not just academia that uses language in distinctive ways to distinguish insiders from outsiders and to beef up weak content. And within academia, it's not just the humanities and social sciences -- a lot of published science research does it too.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    25. Re:No science? by budcub · · Score: 1

      My college friends used to complain about "Anthrospeak" quite often, and when I took a upper divisional Anthropology class I found out exactly what they meant.

      For example, we read a paper written by our teacher (an Anthropologist) who was studying a primitive tribe in Africa (it might have been the Bushmen) and tried to teach them how to play the game Monopoly. It took a lot of work, and the whole thing turned out to be a failure because of cultural differences. People didn't want to charge their friends rent when they landed on their properties, and they would haggle down to the last dollar. They also didn't like the fact you couldn't use pennies for setting prices.

      I just paraphrased the article to make it sound interesting, and it could have been an interesting story, but the way it was written, filled with obscure jargon and twisted narrative made it a terrible bore. I can't really describe it any better than that. In reading Anthropology/Sociology Journals (the two were a combined major for a while at my school) I'd see what would look like an interesting topic but the writing would be so bad it turned me off to the field completely. I'm pretty sure it gave me some bad writing habits since I thought this is how you're supposed to write.

    26. Re:No science? by serialband · · Score: 2, Insightful

      science and physics course work you can copy much easier by yourself as it's "absolute truth" from the course material(that's been running in any given university for couple of decades with the same problems and assigments). it's much harder to prove that you copied 1+1=2 than to prove that you copied sentences directly from someone else.

      You've probably never graded any assignments. For something as simple as 1+1=2, what you've stated is true. For complex math, science and engineering equations that require multiple steps, there are enough variations in arriving at a correct answer that you can easily spot the lazy cheaters. People indent differently. People start different parts of the problem first. In a class of 30, I easily spotted the obvious duplicates, even when I saw the 2nd student's paper hours later. Except for the obvious duplicate, no two papers in that class of 30 had the same organizational structure to arriving at the final correct answer. There were a few that had similar structures, but still varied enough to be different. Of course a single duplicate isn't necessarily a sign of cheating, but if you notice someone duplicating several problems and several assignments, it's obvious they're just copying. The answers may be absolute truths, but the process at arriving at the answers differs quite a bit from person to person.

    27. Re:No science? by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      Humanities and soft sciences, in my experience, tend to be taught in courses whose grading depends much more on take-home essays than in class exams.

      That is the fault of the courses. I read English at a university that cares more about standards than about reducing adminstrative costs. I think something like 80% of my final grade was based on formal, strictly-moderated exams. Not so much scope for cheating.

      Similarly, I am unable to understand how people are allegedly getting away with having graduate theses written for them. How do you successfully defend a thesis you did not write? It doesn't sound like something you could do at an institution that cared about examining theses rather than just weighing them.

    28. Re:No science? by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      * He uses mainly Wikipedia (for background), Amazon for the free pages, and Google Academics for the abstracts. Everything else he spins from educated guesswork and outright bullshit with lots and lots of filler.

      Most real students do the exact same thing. Well, most real students who know how to use the Internet, at least, and the others would if they knew about it.

      Professor requires that three sources be from actual honest-to-god books? Fuck going to the library, and certainly fuck actually reading a significant part of any of your sources; Amazon sample pages and Google Books give you everything you need. Granted it takes a bit of skill with a search engine and the ability to recognize the parts that are most likely to be useful just from the table of contents, but most often you can get enough for a source in a typical undergrad paper from somewhere in the first 10 pages or so of the book's introduction.

      Need more sources? 90% of the time you can get all you need from the references section of one or more Wikipedia pages.

      Managed to get a topic you already know quite a bit about? Just write the paper, don't bother to find sources until you're already done. This is ideal, because you can search for exactly what you need; saves reading a bunch of crap you already know to find the parts you want to use.

      These techniques won't necessarily help if you're expected to actually know much about the topic, but as best I can tell "writing emphasis" courses and most 100-200 level English and History courses exist primarily to teach the above skills.

    29. Re:No science? by hazem · · Score: 1

      So what we did is found some English "obfuscation" program on the net

      That reminds me of the Sokal Affair, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair), where they guy made up some gibberish and managed to get it published.

  6. what a douche! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "..municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, "

    guess u didn't really get the meaning of that one mate..

    1. Re:what a douche! by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Informative

      RTFA. He appreciates the irony.

    2. Re:what a douche! by oobayly · · Score: 1

      Just because he doesn't have any ethics doesn't mean he doesn't understand the concept. I studied engineering, so I've never had to write a paper on ethics. The fact you can write a paper on it gives me the feeling it more about working out how to screw somebody over while still being "ethical" in a business sense.

    3. Re:what a douche! by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      Theology is a little disturbing too.

    4. Re:what a douche! by martas · · Score: 1

      heh, that was the best part of the whole article. OTOH, it's not like academic dishonesty is explicitly forbidden in the bible, unlike homosexuality, so who cares, right?

    5. Re:what a douche! by Hungus · · Score: 1

      Theology is a little disturbing too.

      Why? Regardless of ones particular viewpoint most theology is lies. The religious person only believes their own theology to be correct the rest are lies, the atheist believes all theology to be lies and the comparative theologian is often times just trying to compare the lies.

      --
      Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
    6. Re:what a douche! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Some poor saps persist in believing otherwise(hence the usual 1-required-ethics-course-per-MBA-course-of-study...); but the study of ethical philosophy and behaving ethically really don't have much to do with one another.

      There are, arguably, a few cases that are genuine conundrums, where "ethical common sense" doesn't tell you anything, and you have to call in the professionals; but the vast majority of the time the person in the situation isn't acting ethically because they know ethics, or unethically because they don't, they just either care or don't(sorry Plato).

      In fact, it might actually be easier to study ethics, as a matter of philosophy, if you are an amoral sociopath yourself. For normal people, so many ethical conclusions are simply blindingly commonsensical. It takes an active effort of will to ignore that and focus on why 'ethical' is what it is. For an amoral sociopath, treating 'ethical' as a dispassionate exercise in descriptive taxonomy and constructing theoretical patterns and structures that govern it is much simpler, no emotionally salient ethical instincts to get in the way.

      An analogous situation might be an atheist studying theology. An atheist doesn't believe in god, so their study of theology would have no operational relevance; but they will be fully capable of doing textual analysis of whatever 'sacred' text you plunk in front of them, in exactly the way an English major could analyze the character of 'Tom Sawyer' from the text, without believing in his existence.

    7. Re:what a douche! by Amouth · · Score: 1

      of all of them pharmacology is the one that bothers me.. that is a subject that can get people killed.

      the other? eh let the people who cheated pass and then fail in real life.. but i don't want their lack of understanding the subject to get others hurt.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    8. Re:what a douche! by Znork · · Score: 1

      but i don't want their lack of understanding the subject to get others hurt.

      On the other hand, what's more worrying in pharmacology, people passing tests by cheating or tests designed so that cheaters can easily pass? Personally I'd find the latter at least as worrying, if it's an indication of testing methodology in actual pharmacological research.

    9. Re:what a douche! by Gravitron+5000 · · Score: 1

      Passing an ethics course was mandatory in my country (Canada) to be awarded an engineering degree. Ethics do not only apply to business. Cutting corners and bad decisions can lead to all sorts of catastrophes (See the Tacoma Narrows bridge failure or the Deepwater Horizon oil spill for a couple of examples)

    10. Re:what a douche! by Amouth · · Score: 1

      i'll agree both are worrying..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    11. Re:what a douche! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Shrug. If he's written any papers on ethics, he'll probably know that most modern ethical theory is relativist: you may think he's wrong, but your opinion carries no more weight than his. It's been more than a hundred years since a good moral absolutist entered the scene.

      That's pretty much why I stopped taking ethics classes.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    12. Re:what a douche! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Shrug. It's perfectly valid to end up an ethical relativist after taking an ethics class. Or a utilitarian. Neither one would see anything wrong with writing term papers for a living.

      I've taken a ton of ethics classes; none of them have any component that deals with how you ought to live your life. They deal with various theories, what they say, and what their flaws are.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    13. Re:what a douche! by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "..that is a subject that can get people killed."

      Even the very best of them give sugar pills to half their test subjects.

    14. Re:what a douche! by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Regardless of ones particular viewpoint most theology is lies.

      Certainly, from almost any self-consistent viewpoint one can take, one would conclude that much theology is unjustified either because it is built on false premises or because it is not justified by the premises on which it is notionally based, and possibly that some of the remainder reaches correct conclusions merely by coincidence, despite being based on false premises and/or faulty reasoning.

      Characterizing it as "lies" is an assumption of ill motive, which is not necessary in most viewpoints (except, e.g., those that include as a premise "all false claims are deliberately false".)

      The religious person only believes their own theology to be correct the rest are lies

      Not at all true. Theologians -- even from religions that are, at the time, being used to justify wars against each other -- often accept ideas from theologians of different faiths and build upon them. As I recall, there was quite a significant exchange of ideas between medieval Christian, Jewish, and Islamic theologians.

      Certainly, theologians will think that some parts of the theology of different faiths (or even that of different theologians within their own faith tradition) is wrong, but that certainly does not mean that they will think that all theology but their own is lies.

    15. Re:what a douche! by oobayly · · Score: 1

      Didn't have to do it in the UK. However I do question the concept of teaching ethics to adults. How many people do you reckon sat up and thought "Holy shit, cutting corners to the detriment of safety is unethical"?

      For the people who already have a built in sense of ethics (at the undergrad stage in life), it's a bit of a waste of time. For those who simply don't give a damn, they'll just blag their way through and pass unless they're very obviously sociopathic, or just plain stupid.

      Take for instance the sign at my local petrol station: "It's a criminal offence to leave without paying for your fuel". It seriously concerns me that people have to be told this, however I do wonder how effective the sign is. How many people have been pulling away, read the sign and thought "Oh no, I'm destroying somebody's livelihood, I'll go back and pay". I suppose it may jog the memory of forgetful people, but on the whole it's preaching to the choir.

      Now teaching ethics to those at a younger stage, that's a plan. Whilst not being religious, I do see the merit in a religious upbringing as it's a simple way of explaining why one shouldn't do "bad things". Not that a Baptist friend agrees that God should be used as a boogeyman for children.

    16. Re:what a douche! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Why should absolute be required? If a man and wife are ok with an open marriage, why is it ok for someone that isn't to condemn them? How do you reconcile when entire cultures have conflict over what is or isn't ethical? The culture most like you gets to declare what's right for everyone (not that you'd personally say that, but that's how it works out in history)?

      And relativism doesn't mean that his opinion is exactly equal to yours in that if the two of you have a disagreement you are required to concede to him. It means that there needs to be awareness of the environment when resolving the conflict. Manson wasn't ethical because he didn't think what he was doing was wrong. And no, his opinion doesn't share the same weight as mine (unless the number of mass murders outnumbered the number of non-mass murders, which isn't a self-sustaining culture).

      I don't know about you, but the people I've met and talked with in-depth that had complaints like yours stopped taking ethics because they were nutjob-conservative who believed they had the right to personally assert what everyone else should do, and no one should tell them otherwise. But then maybe I've not taken the right ethics classes, as they haven't been ethics theory, but ethics for engineers or other such specific applied ethics classes. But they do touch on things that were ethical when done and wouldn't be now (many such examples in psychology) and since ethics, by nature, is dependent on the culture at that time and place, it is necessarily relativist.

    17. Re:what a douche! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      The problem with relativist ethics is that everything becomes relative. Murder? Relative. Theft? Relative. You need to be able to say, "In all cases, this thing is wrong" so when a Manson comes along, you can deal with him without going out and holding a vote.

      The biggest problem with absolutist ethics is that people start trying to apply them to things like polyamory...Why is this a moral issue? Is anyone getting hurt? Being lied to? Being stolen from? No? Not a moral issue.

      Whenever you start trying to lay down an absolute ethical theory, this exact objection comes up. Every society has something that they do, that other societies disapprove of, and so no one can agree on an absolute standard, so they fall back to cultural relativism, which is just as shitty as individual relativism.

      Traditional religion (in its self-appointed role as "Arbiter of concrete moral standards") always screws this stuff up, so people become disenchanted with the idea of a bunch of stuck up assholes telling them that eating pork makes them sinners.

      But the fact that religion doesn't do it right, doesn't mean it's the wrong answer. Relativism sucks, and it doesn't reflect anything meaningful in human interaction...There are no ethically relativistic societies out there.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    18. Re:what a douche! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The problem with relativist ethics is that everything becomes relative. Murder? Relative. Theft? Relative.

      But, the fact of the matter is, it is. Duels used to be common. A sitting Vice President killed a man in a duel, and a man that would later go on to become president killed a man in a duel. Not that politicians are to be held in high regard, but if "murders" can take or continue to hold office, then it isn't as absolute as you imply.

      There were tribes in the US where theft was considered a virtue. Being able to sneak into an enemy camp, take something of value, and escape was lauded, not condemned - even by those stolen from. So again, who are you to state that is wrong? For one, it was thought to reduce the tribal wars because they would have their Indian Ninja prove the prowess of the tribe over the other and they'd not have full-out battles.

      But there's little that can be said today that would defend the practice of duels, but premeditated killing of humans is still accepted and done in the US on a regular basis. So taking of life is a relative thing. Many countries even refuse to extradite for certain crimes because of that practice.

      The biggest problem with absolutist ethics is that people start trying to apply them to things like polyamory...Why is this a moral issue? Is anyone getting hurt? Being lied to? Being stolen from? No? Not a moral issue.

      I think it is a moral issue, though we may be quibbling about the definition of morals. Morals as "proper behavior" would indicate that some people think that open relationships (or drug use, or tattoos, or anything else you can think of) isn't "proper behavior." So that would make it a moral issue. But, even if it is a moral issue and "wrong" couldn't it still be immoral to enforce one's views of morality on another?

      Perhaps (some) moral relativists fall into the category of moral absolutists who believe that morals needn't be enforced for all cases. Just because it's immoral doesn't mean it should be wrong. For instance, lying is considered immoral (well short of the white lies, which are debatable), but as long as you don't materially harm the other person with a lie, they don't fall afoul of the law. Using the law as the definition of "wrong" (yeah, don't go there), something can be "wrong" and not immoral (speeding) or immoral without being "wrong" (lying without provable harm to someone).

      There are no ethically relativistic societies out there.

      But the fact that there are lots of them out there without matching ethics means they are, in practice, relativistic. Otherwise, there's be one set of ethics universally applied over the world.

  7. Legal Cheating by digitaldc · · Score: 0, Troll

    "I didn't much care for my classes, though. I slept late and spent the afternoons working on my own material. Then a funny thing happened. Here I was, begging anybody in authority to take my work seriously. But my classmates did. They saw my abilities and my abundance of free time. They saw a value that the university did not. It turned out that my lazy, Xanax-snorting, Miller-swilling classmates were thrilled to pay me to write their papers. And I was thrilled to take their money. Imagine you are crumbling under the weight of university-issued parking tickets and self-doubt when a frat boy offers you cash to write about Plato. Doing that job was a no-brainer. Word of my services spread quickly, especially through the fraternities. Soon I was receiving calls from strangers who wanted to commission my work. I was a writer!"

    And that's how capitalism works, friends. From the smallest college to the largest corporation, cheating is profitable.
    Legal cheating the way of big business in the US and all over the world. Just look at how businesses avoid paying taxes with off-shore locations, lobby for de-regulation, hire illegals, and use corporate espionage to further their relentless pursuit of profits. So what makes this guy any worse than any business in how they bend and break the rules? He just learned how to work the system for his own profit, just like every other big business.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Legal Cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what makes this guy any worse than any business in how they bend and break the rules?

      This guy's buisness relys on someone else violating the rules to exist. I guarantee that every one of those students he sells to signed an honor code that stated they wouldn't do presceisly what they're doing.

  8. The trend? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're all bullshit courses and degrees! Take that, no-science majors.

    1. Re:The trend? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      That isn't his specialty. I guarantee you could find a "him" for physical sciences. The trick would be finding a physical science course load that wasn't heavily lab focused (Note: I don't doubt you could find this, just saying it would be your first challenge).

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  9. I saw this when I was in School by ndavis · · Score: 1

    I have to say I think this is a very large problem and part of the reason why a Bachelors degree doesn't mean as much as it did in the past.

    While I didn't cheat (although I was tempted at times) I had numerous friends who did. They had more free time then I did, had more fun but also didn't really learn anything from the classes they had signed up for. I think in the long run this leads to longer education times as people are forced to go for a Masters (where cheating can still happen). At the same time colleges are becoming less about learning and more about taking a students money and giving them a degree so they can get the next cash cow in.

    1. Re:I saw this when I was in School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you missed the part where he mentions that he does masters and PhD thesis papers...

    2. Re:I saw this when I was in School by Eivind · · Score: 1

      It's easy enough to fix though. All you need to do is have actual in-school-exams that count for the majority of the grade.

      It's not as if the Internet is magical - the essential quality that enables rampant cheating, is the fact that you're allowed to do the work in a environment where nobody knows if the candidate handing in the assignment, is the same person who wrote it.

      Even without the Internet, students can and have cooperated with eachothers, if I am really good in subject A and you're really good in B, the logical choice is for me to write 2 essays on subject A, and for you to write 2 essays on subject B. We both get better grades, and the odds of being discovered as cheaters are miniscule, assuming each work is actually only ever turned in once. (the only cheating they've got any hope of discovering, is where blocks or entire essays are copied verbatim or near-verbatim from one paper to another)

    3. Re:I saw this when I was in School by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If your class has a written component, your exam should have a written component. IF you put them both together, it should be obvious who is having their papers ghostwritten.

      Most writing-heavy classes I took had short essay midterms and finals, with 2-3 papers. I'm not sure why this isn't the case anymore...Even in the old days, frats, sports teams, whatever, would keep papers from their older members, and recycle them after a few years. If you don't make the student do some work in front of you, how do you know for sure they're doing any work at all?

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    4. Re:I saw this when I was in School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that the education system is actually interested in rooting-out such cheating. It's not.

      Colleges and universities are paid for bums-on-seats - sometimes that means bums-that-graduate, but usually not. They don't care if you're cheating, as long as you're attending classes, labs, whatever-is-mandatory, so that they get paid then they're happy.

      Who cares if you're cheating your ass off to pass? Why would they waste their time checking assignments and papers for plagiarism? It's not in their interests and would make work for academics who feel that they have enough work to do already.

  10. No STEM by dcollins · · Score: 1

    Notice there's no STEM items here (science, technology, engineering, mathematics). Highlighting that all these "soft" type courses accept, potentially, a lot of BS. (I think philosophy classes are enormously important, the root of our culture, but still... I know it's BS'able in many cases.) No wonder some students find the actual hard sciences -- that have actual right and wrong answers and require justification -- overwhelmingly difficult in comparison.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re:No STEM by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The big difference is the amount of coursework. My degree only had a couple of modules that were more than 20% coursework, while people in humanities courses had a lot that were completely assessed by long essays. Paying someone to do all of the coursework on my degree would, even if they got 100%, only just be enough to move you up one grade boundary. The coursework was mainly there so you knew before the exam whether you really understood the subject.

      To cheat, you'd need to pay someone to sit the exam for you. There were a couple of cases where students were suspected of doing this. They were foreign students with (very) rich parents who were thought to be paying someone else to basically pretend to be them for the entire degree. It's pretty difficult to prove, but it's also a lot more expensive so less of a problem than paying someone to write the occasional essay.

      I think philosophy classes are enormously important, the root of our culture, but still

      Philosophy is the root of our culture, philosophy classes are not.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:No STEM by dcollins · · Score: 1

      Replying to myself. FTA: "My customers are your students. I promise you that. Somebody in your classroom uses a service that you can't detect, that you can't defend against, that you may not even know exists."

      Um, no, actually I can guarantee that no one is using your services for work in my classroom.

      "...As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything."

      There you go.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    3. Re:No STEM by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      The question is, though, whether there is no STEM because this guy doesn't do STEM work, or because there is less cheating in STEM...

      With our cheating-outsourcer sample size of 1, it is difficult to say.

    4. Re:No STEM by Schadrach · · Score: 1

      I took a philosophy course as an elective. My professor had a simple solution to this problem -- instead of grading on "long" essays, he graded on "short" essays, to be produced in class as tests.

      He'd list ~7 questions regarding the recently covered material as topics, you picked one and started writing. He was "generous" enough to let you stay over by a good 15 minutes if it was needed. 2 page minimum, 3-5 was typically expected. He was pretty brutal in grading them too.

    5. Re:No STEM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct, sir. Science is much more difficult what with all that memorization of formulas that give out pat answers. none of this soft thinking for you I see. No "What is the quality of blue?" or "What would Lincoln have done at Hiroshima?" No sir! Just the facts for you. Facts and hard science. As a matter of fact if you can just create a computer program that would yield the same answers. Feed in the data and out comes a pat answer. 42, sir, and not a jot more.
      Puh-lease. Science people have it so simple. Just read a book, memorize a few facts, and wham-bam another freshly minted Phd. - original thought one hundred percent optional.

    6. Re:No STEM by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      In the graduate program I'm in, I can assure you that there's no internet-based cheating on homework. When 2/3 of the class sits around for 8 hours jointly working on a single problem out of a 5 problem set, the chance of finding someone on the internet able to solve it is probably pretty limited. Especially so when the professor is impressed that the group of us solved it, because he never could, and just intended it as an exercise for us to discover how complicated the problem is.

      While this is an extreme case, as a few other people have said, STEM classes generally involve "I'm going to watch you do it" sort of activities. Tests, labs, etc. The majority of humanities are "go home and return with something" sorts of classes. When you graduate with a STEM degree, you've generally been forced to take a bit of humanities. When you graduate in humanities, you very well might never have taken any sort of engineering, calculus, chemistry, physics, etc. The pool of people able to cheat on STEM is significantly lower than the pool of people able to cheat on humanities due to this, and the order of magnitude less people who get STEM degrees.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    7. Re:No STEM by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that isn't not easy to cheat in a science class? It's just different. All you need to do with a lot of assignments is see the solutions and essentially copy them, more or less verbatim. That's just easier and cheaper cheating. (A lot of textbooks have solution manuals circulating, some even on the web. I know because I've found them.)

    8. Re:No STEM by cervo · · Score: 1

      It's been my experience that in many mathematics/computer science classes there are no papers, or very few. I think in computer science only one or two senior level classes had papers in my school. And in graduate school only one 700 level class had a "paper" which was basically a summary of a Research Paper. In social sciences the papers are often more work, requiring the citing of multiple sources. Most of my math classes (at least Calc, Linear Algebra, Discrete, Partial Differential Equations, etc..) were all exams/homework with the homework being optional (except in two math classes where there were a few graded problem sets). However if you don't do the homework, very rarely do you pass the exam....

    9. Re:No STEM by augustw · · Score: 1

      Notice there's no STEM items here (science, technology, engineering, mathematics).

      There's no law, either.

    10. Re:No STEM by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Shrug. I think it'd be more work to fake your way through a liberal arts class than a big math/science class. I took classes that had more than 1000 students in the section, where the exams were given by TA's who'd probably never seen you before.

      For the price of a fake student ID, you could have someone take the exams FOR you. Easy. I once took a geology class where I only came to class for the exams, and aced the whole course. I did roughly the same for physics (I went to the practicums religiously, but never to class). I never saw my TA at the exams, and, indeed, I took the exams at the wrong location every time, due to a scheduling conflict. My professor might have been there, but I don't know because I didn't know what he looked like.

      In short, just because this guy specializes in liberal arts, doesn't mean there aren't people out there who can churn out easy science classes. And saying that, "Well you couldn't do hard science classes" misses the point: the people who do this stuff are doing it to knock off course requirements. It'd be equally hard to bluff your way through higher level liberal arts classes, with maybe 10 other students, and a heavy dependence on class participation.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    11. Re:No STEM by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Eh. I hated the exams in CS, and was good at the programming (which is a weird reversal for me, but I digress).

      The point is, if you could do okay on the exams, and good on the programs, you'd do fine in the class. The exams were usually nothing but book theory and pseudo-code. The programs were take home work. It would be trivial to go to a coder-for-hire board and outsource it.

      Judging by the performance of my peers, I think many CS majors didn't learn a damn thing about programming in school. This would explain why.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    12. Re:No STEM by digitig · · Score: 1

      When you graduate in humanities, you very well might never have taken any sort of engineering, calculus, chemistry, physics, etc.

      You'll probably have done some statistics, though.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    13. Re:No STEM by digitig · · Score: 1

      It's been my experience that in many mathematics/computer science classes there are no papers, or very few. I think in computer science only one or two senior level classes had papers in my school.

      But did they have programming assignments? And did any students get others to write their programs for them? They did when I was at college.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    14. Re:No STEM by cervo · · Score: 1

      In math classes, with the exception of numerical analysis, no programming assignments. Basically just homework problems and then exams.

      In computer science classes most had at least one programming assignment (a few like data structures and intro programming had many assignments). But there were some that were entirely theory based (or just had a lazy instructor...e.g. I had an operating systems class with no homework assignments.....).

    15. Re:No STEM by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Notice there's no STEM items here (science, technology, engineering, mathematics).

      I see at least two science items, only one of which is a social science and thus probably outside of the scope of what you intended if not what you said. So, no, I don't notice that at all.

    16. Re:No STEM by dcollins · · Score: 1

      Name the ones you think are STEM fields.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    17. Re:No STEM by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Why, yes, I would, in fact, like fries with that.

    18. Re:No STEM by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      I agree with your assessment (GE requirements are skewed towards the humanities as part of a western/liberal education), but not entirely with your logic.

      Based on the communication skills of some of the STEM graduates I know, I say there is no way in hell they all passed their humanities requirements without cheating. Additionally, those humanities requirements are pretty low level at a lot of schools. Very simple English, maybe a few semesters/quarters of another language, a little history, and they're about done... and I'd argue that nearly all of these classes teach skills that are vital to graduate/post-graduate-level work in all fields.

      Humanities majors in most schools (well, all six of the colleges/universities I've experienced) do have basic science and math requirements as well. Perhaps not necessarily physics, but they most certainly had to pass a low-level natural science, some sort of life science, and a basic math course (probably statistics--and don't give me that "statistics isn't math" speel, I've heard it before). I'd say these courses are about as low-level as their humanities counter-parts that are required of STEM majors.

      As for the overall skew, I do think it makes sense to have more humanities requirements than hard science/math requirements. Scholars in both the humanities and harder sciences need to master English and the related fields to publish their papers. Humanities scholars, however, have little need for physics or calculus. Most humanities rely on a good knowledge of statistics, and this seems to be about the average requirement for a humanities degree. It makes sense to me.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  11. anonymous coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    don't be so smug, engineering-assholes, a little humanities would go a long way toward civilizing you.

    1. Re:anonymous coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're plenty civil, we just don't like listening to people spout off bullshit like this.

    2. Re:anonymous coward by martas · · Score: 1

      i know i'm not supposed to feed the trolls, but dude, you're funny! this is a prime example of irony, if i ever did see one. (get it? he's criticizing the engineering-assholes for not being civilized, thus displaying his own lack of manners? funny, right?)

    3. Re:anonymous coward by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Funny

      don't be so smug, engineering-assholes, a little humanities would go a long way toward civilizing you.

      Yeah, then they would be ... like .. civil engineers :-)

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    4. Re:anonymous coward by kabdib · · Score: 1

      Take away his TV, internet and phone and see how he likes civilization . . .

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced technology is insufficiently documented.
    5. Re:anonymous coward by ildon · · Score: 1

      What a civil and polite post you've created.

  12. It's the modern way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Business calls it "outsourcing".

    1. Re:It's the modern way by FullBandwidth · · Score: 1

      Exactly, I could use a little freelance work myself, and I have a Liberal Arts degree - where do I sign up?

      --
      My friend Debbie Ann is so promiscuous, instead of an appointment book she needs a package manager
    2. Re:It's the modern way by cepler · · Score: 1

      Don't bother, it'll get shifted over to India and China soon enough.

    3. Re:It's the modern way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a liberal arts degree and you're looking for work? What happened, did McDonald's have an employment freeze?

    4. Re:It's the modern way by Zuriel · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have a Liberal Arts degree - where do I sign up?

      http://mcdonalds.com.au/careers/join-us

      Sorry, someone had to say it. :P

    5. Re:It's the modern way by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Actually, one of the hardest things to shift is language-specific stuff. Pretty sure you're going to get caught when you turn in a paper in engrish.

      Math and science on the other hand...

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    6. Re:It's the modern way by Eightbitgnosis · · Score: 1

      Come on now! They could totally make it as far Starbucks

  13. OMG by TDyl · · Score: 1

    ...it's Stephen Bloody Fry

    --
    Todd: I hope it proves as delicious as the farmers that grew them
  14. The source of the problem by 2.7182 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can't really test students with projects/papers. They cheat. Even if they don't use a professional service. I spent years teaching CS students and it was always a problem. It helps to use detection software, like the system Berkeley provides. But the humanities just have to suck it up and admit that they need to give only in class exams.

    1. Re:The source of the problem by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My wife ran into that and caused hell for an instructor.

      She turned in 10 years ago a paper on a subject.

      last semester she use the same topic and paper as a basis for her new class, updated it with new info.

      You can not plagiarize or cheat from yourself. But it was marked as copied from another student. So she challenged the school and won.

      Software makes the teacher lazy. Get off your ass and READ, you can tell if johnny pot-head wrote the paper or if he copied a lot of it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:The source of the problem by happy_place · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I believe one of the reasons why students cheat on the Humanities is because we don't value the humanities and we force students to take course that they simply aren't interested in. Sure, I suppose there are those who could use these services to go through their whole education and use this as a crutch--I bet there are those that get in over their heads, but I don't see this as the trend, because eventually you have to be able to hold an intelligent conversation with people. What I believe these services do is allow students the opportunity to get through work they simply will never have any interest in--or they BELIEVE they won't be interested in. When was the last time a person with an English Degree really had value in society? And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world? Heck, this guy that's writing all these papers, probably is the most entrepreneurial English major around.

      Sure professors can do more to breathe life into their subjects. Sure they can test harder and stop giving the same tests to students and using the same identical curriculum year after year (which is where most cheating in college occurs, btw... just ask the foreign grad students who have whole batteries of "study aids" that they pass around in secret). Sure they could even find new ways to teach the humanities, or they could even get rid of the requirements for those who don't value the arts of taking them... but ultimately I think mostly we just need to take a step back and start acknowledging that these classes are worth doing a good job at--even if they won't be the primary source of income for students.

      --
      http://www.beanleafpress.com
    3. Re:The source of the problem by jeff4747 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No the source of the problem is the value of the degree exceeds the value of the courses.

      The piece of paper at the end is the important part, the classes leading to that piece of paper are failing to provide sufficient benefit to the students.

    4. Re:The source of the problem by j0nb0y · · Score: 4, Informative

      Many schools have a rule that you cannot use work you did for a prior class.

      --
      If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
    5. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymusing · · Score: 1

      I believe one of the reasons why students cheat on the Humanities is because we don't value the humanities and we force students to take course that they simply aren't interested in.

      I agree with you. Unfortunately it's not limited to courses in which students are disinterested: this "shadow scholar" apparently wrote a dozen graduate thesis! I would assume that someone in a graduate program might actually be interested in the topic...

      --
      Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
    6. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When was the last time a person with an English Degree really had value in society?

      Many people with English degrees become teachers. I've had several such teachers, some quite talented. Are you saying teachers aren't valuable?

      And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world?

      When you work for a small company that can't afford a technical writer. Holy fuck is it annoying to completely rewrite document after document produced by a bunch of slackers who think because they know how to ping something that means they can be practically nonfunctional at everything else including such basic things as language.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    7. Re:The source of the problem by 2.7182 · · Score: 1

      For programming projects, the software gives a number indicating how similar two projects are. This is a flag. Then the instructor considers the projects on a case by case basis. For one thing, if there is code in the book they are allowed to use or code given in class, and two students use it, then the two projects get flagged. Then, I, the instructor looks at it and checks to see what was going on.

    8. Re:The source of the problem by i.r.id10t · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've seen instructors fail students after using Turnitin.com's service. What was "non original"? The bibliography page... but on a 2 page paper, the bibliography is 30% or so, and the instructors never looked to see what wasn't original, just how much wasn't original.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    9. Re:The source of the problem by Culture20 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Many schools have a rule that you cannot use work you did for a prior class.

      Then every paper will begin with an alphabet, rosetta stone, etc. If you know the material, it's immaterial where you learned it.

    10. Re:The source of the problem by arivanov · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sure you can.

      Have a seminar and make the student present the paper to peers. That is what good universities in Europe do and they have had to deal with the shadow scholar industry for many centuries. If the class is too big split the class and have the grad students run the seminars helping them out on a round-robin basis. They need to learn the trade too.

      In fact in most cases the other students _WILL_ catch them for you. There is nothing as merciless as an audience of your peers especially if they are getting a grade percentage or grade bonus for successful critique. Especially in humanities.

      Divide, conquer, rule.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    11. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the most important skills that the humanities teach students is how to write properly - not just the first draft, but a formal, finished work of scholarship. Now how exactly do you expect the humanities to test that skill in an in-class exam?

      It is not just the humanities that need to do assessments on more in-depth assessments than can be accomplished through a three hour exam. Would you replace the dissertation with a six hour exam? [Our friendly plagiarist has said he has written more than one dissertation.] As someone with an undergraduate degree in the humanities and a graduate degree in CS, I' think I'm probably one of the best qualified people on Slashdot to make this comment: if the only assessments you are doing in the classes you teach are in-class exams, you're not teaching your students enough.

    12. Re:The source of the problem by jythie · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps 'valued by society' would be a better way of putting it. Teachers might be valuable, society does not hold them in high regard.

    13. Re:The source of the problem by Skater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The piece of paper at the end is the important part, the classes leading to that piece of paper are failing to provide sufficient benefit to the students.

      College: You're doing it wrong.

    14. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most institutions see self-plagiarism as unacceptable.
      Sorry dude.

    15. Re:The source of the problem by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      My college uses a simple method. All disciplines have a discussion in the end of the semester. In that discussion the students are supposed to explain their assignments' written reports. If you know what you did, you can explain it. Catching a cheater is extremely simple, and the teachers are heavily trained on that.

    16. Re:The source of the problem by h00manist · · Score: 1

      No the source of the problem is the value of the degree exceeds the value of the courses.

      The piece of paper at the end is the important part, the classes leading to that piece of paper are failing to provide sufficient benefit to the students.

      Yes, the way schools, education, knowledge transfer and development is structured is all obsolete. Knowledge is not the real value in many schools, paperwork is. If someone studies completely outside of schools and simply learns more than many graduates, most people will say "but you don't have a degree." As if that were the main purpose of study. Thankfully there are a handful of places that don't care, and simply test your knowledge before you are hired.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    17. Re:The source of the problem by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      This is the problem with turn-it-in. I've found a quick google search to be faster and more effective (my school only does manual professor submissions). Copy and paste random text from the paper and then off to google (which also catches exact quotes from their textbooks that are not cited faster than I can confirm them--reminds me, it's time for a re-read).

    18. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using your own material from 10 years ago should still be quoted and properly documented in the bibliography. It's still using prior work.

    19. Re:The source of the problem by cervo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well you can. You just have to have them explain the project/paper and ask questions. I think for computer science the best thing you could do is have a programming project and then an "interview" with the student. If they have no clue at all what they are talking about, then obviously they cheated. If they had someone else do it for them and then they studied the code and looked up everything until they understood it, then I would have no problem giving them an A because they learned the material which is the point of having exams...to make sure they learn the material... In that case it's not much different from slapping together the various algorithms from the text book along with examples from the language documentation for system calls into a coherent program.

      Basically everything is copying. It took years to get binary search correct on its own. Most students are just parroting out algorithms from memory that they got from a book which is more or less copying anyway. Programming is really about slapping together a bunch of algorithms/library calls into a coherent program...

      Also even an open book take home test is not so easy to cheat on. If you say define term x, define term y, then the answers are in the book/google/bing/etc.. If instead you come up with some problem that uses the stuff but is not so obvious, then only people who really studied will get it. Often the cheaters all get it wrong, and it becomes obvious they cheated because they all get the same exact wrong answer....

    20. Re:The source of the problem by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      ... this is also the more fun way to do things in terms of grading and for the students as well.

    21. Re:The source of the problem by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      When you work for a small company that can't afford a technical writer. Holy fuck is it annoying to completely rewrite document after document produced by a bunch of slackers who think because they know how to ping something that means they can be practically nonfunctional at everything else including such basic things as language.

      I would easily have traded any of my undergrad humanities classes for a class on technical writing. My school simply didn't offer it. The humanities departments expected the technical departments to teach to their own writing styles, and the individual sci/tech departments just expected that through 4 years of education you will pick it up. Trying to learn effective technical writing by mimicking journal articles and the APA style guide (social "scientist" here) is daunting.

      Probably some value to it from an educational standpoint. Though the end result is you inevitably get some very educated people who just can't write effectively.

    22. Re:The source of the problem by cervo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Plus there's nothing like the professor asking sitting in the back of the room asking tons and tons of questions about every aspect of the paper deliberately exposing what you know and what you don't know.... But it only works with a good professor. Some can't even be bothered to read the textbook at all even though the class is not the area they are researching.... My biggest pet peeve is when I get an exam and a question is "wrong" but then on further review the answer sheet is wrong. Then the professor has to give everyone credit for that question, even though my version is right and a lot of the other ones are wrong..... That really pisses me off!! Anyway assuming the professor at least read the book, and his lectures are not full of inaccuracies/wild speculation because he is too lazy to look it up, then he has a good idea of what you should know and what you shouldn't. so while questioning you about your paper, he can question using concepts in the book and see if you can apply them. Also some stuff in papers is open to speculation, even that if you have completely no clue then your speculation will be random guesses... Whereas many times based on the way the paper went, you can do an "educated" speculation....

    23. Re:The source of the problem by chrb · · Score: 0, Troll

      You can not plagiarize or cheat from yourself.

      Actually, you might be able to, but it is an unusual case. For some doctoral theses, you are required to sign a plagiarism notice stating that the work you are presenting as original has not been previously published elsewhere, even if it was credited to yourself. If you copy some of your previous published work, present it as original and don't cite it because you want it to appear as new work, then you may well be found guilty of plagiarism.

    24. Re:The source of the problem by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      The humanities just need to acknowledge that 99% of their students view them as a hurdle they have to leap on their way to whatever degree they are really after. Cheating on these subjects is obvious: why waste study/work time on a subject that has no value when you should be devoting more of your time on a subject that may be the focus of your career?

    25. Re:The source of the problem by catchblue22 · · Score: 2

      No the source of the problem is the value of the degree exceeds the value of the courses.
      The piece of paper at the end is the important part, the classes leading to that piece of paper are failing to provide sufficient benefit to the students.

      The "source" of the problem, in my opinion, is the shifting of education from being something of value in and of itself, to it becoming something of value largely based on the future financial gain to the student. This corrupts the purpose of education, making it a selfish pursuit instead of a noble search for truth. When education becomes a selfish pursuit, it subconsciously licences the student to use whatever means are necessary to receive the credential. Do you think Einstein sought his theory for money? Newton? Galileo? Aristotle? Plato? Socrates? Most of the posts I read here circle around the real philosophical issues without directly addressing them.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    26. Re:The source of the problem by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      I think you might have found another source of the problem!

      "Sure professors can ... stop giving the same tests to students and using the same identical curriculum year after year."

      So when the Professor reuses work it's "teaching" but when the student reuses work it's "self plagarism!"

      I can see the lesson learned right there - "get out of English and learn how to manipulate power so you don't have to follow the rules made for peons".

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    27. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, yes, you CAN self-plagiarize.

      Your wife needs to get off her lazy ass and WRITE.

    28. Re:The source of the problem by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can we begin with "loose" vs "lose"?

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    29. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think that everybody has to be a professional grade technical writer, just be able to employ correct basic grammar and formatting. Honestly that's something that people are supposed to master in high school, but performance at the university level remains abysmal for many. (Even in exclusive humanities-focused programs. I was in the Honors Program at Seattle University which hand-picks 25 students a year, and even there I was confronted with grammar so terrible in paper reviews that I started diagramming other students' sentences on the backs of their papers. Seriously, there were long "sentences" with no verbs.)

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    30. Re:The source of the problem by digitig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I believe one of the reasons why students cheat on the Humanities is because we don't value the humanities and we force students to take course that they simply aren't interested in.

      Cognitive psychology, accounting and pharmacology (three subjects from the list in the summary) are not "humanities". And you can bet the only reason that person wasn't doing maths or computing coursework was that he wasn't up to standard in those subjects. People cheat because they want the results without doing the work.

      What I believe these services do is allow students the opportunity to get through work they simply will never have any interest in--or they BELIEVE they won't be interested in. When was the last time a person with an English Degree really had value in society?

      If they don't think they will be interested, why do they choose that subject?

      And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world?

      The "techie world" isn't a world, and the techies that can write good proposals and reports and can communicate effectively with customers or with other departments in the company are likely to do better than those who can't.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    31. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't feed the trolls.

    32. Re:The source of the problem by chrb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And I've seen an instructor pass students after they turn in ~10 pages of nearly identical answers. Years ago when I was marking CS Masters degree coursework, I noticed that two papers were almost identical. The only thing changed was the spelling had been corrected in one version. I took it to the course organiser, who said he agreed that it was certainly copied, but we should drop it because a) it just wasn't worth the hassle and b) these were foreign students (Taiwanese) who were paying a lot to be at the university, and it may be a cultural thing that they don't see copying as a bad/prohibited thing, and it just wasn't worth the hassle of following the official plagiarism process.

      Another anecdote: several hours before a big programming deadline, I am sitting in the lab, and one of the guys from my course comes in. He's one of the guys who isn't so knowledgeable about computers - computer science students tended towards being geeky and into programming, math, electronics, physics etc. but there were always a few who were just there for the qualification so they can get the money whilst learning as little as possible (to be honest, these were the ones who were usually doing joint degrees in business or management)... with about 4 hours to go, this person asks his friend to send him a copy of his work, and promises to change all the variable names and add a few dummy declarations, so they won't get caught. It was blatant copying, he didn't have any idea how the program worked, and he didn't care how it worked.

      Another interesting anecdote I have comes from an EE friend of mine. He got so fed up of people stealing his work that he stopped using the lab printers during normal hours. He was known as one of the more knowledgeable people on his degree course, and it was just completely normal that, coming up to a deadline, he would print his circuits and associated text ready for handing in, and it would get stolen by someone while it was sitting next to the printer.

      So, whilst I agree that it is sometimes difficult to tell whether or not cheating has really taken place, there is no doubt that people do cheat. I think we should actually use more automated systems to detect possible cheating, pay people to find out whether it is cheating, and have strict processes and penalties in place to remove habitual cheats. Doing otherwise just devalues the whole academic institution.

    33. Re:The source of the problem by digitig · · Score: 1

      As someone with an undergraduate degree in the humanities and a graduate degree in CS, I' think I'm probably one of the best qualified people on Slashdot to make this comment

      Undergraduate degree in humanities, undergraduate degree in engineering and postgraduate degree in CS here. I beat you by one :-) Unfortunately I agree with what you're saying, so there's no point pulling rank.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    34. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when the Professor reuses work it's "teaching" but when the student reuses work it's "self plagarism!"

      When the professor reuses work in pursuit of a qualification it's plagiarism too. Don't forget - the idea of teaching is to disseminate existing knowledge. The professor isn't seeking grades from you.

    35. Re:The source of the problem by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world?

      A software developer who can't communicate is worthless.

      On the other screen of my computer right now is a design proposal that is every bit as linguistically complex and eloquent as any essay or term paper I wrote in school. It is a deliverable requirement for a major software project and is, in fact, more highly valued than the source code that will eventually back it up.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    36. Re:The source of the problem by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      In addition to technical writing, being good at English will also help you speak more effectively. Speaking and writing effectively are exactly the skills you need to make yourself understood by users, fellow programmers, testers, administrators, and the poor sap who has to maintain your code 5 years later.

      For instance, compare this comment:

      /* Allocate available memory block */

      with this comment describing the same function:

      /* In this function, I loop through the linked list of available memory blocks, and find the first one that is marked as free, mark it as allocated, and return a pointer to that block. */

      Which code would you rather maintain?

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    37. Re:The source of the problem by MrSenile · · Score: 1

      Many people with English degrees become teachers. I've had several such teachers, some quite talented. Are you saying teachers aren't valuable?

      When I see teachers get paid 15,000-30,000 a year on ten-year contracts dealing with thousands of students, most of which are uncaring drones, and forbidden to punish or even help failing students who basically don't care, per government rules and guidelines, then yes, I can honestly say teachers, in our given environment, really aren't treated as a valuable commodity.

    38. Re:The source of the problem by story645 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would assume that someone in a graduate program might actually be interested in the topic...

      I make fun of my friend for being in an EE master's program where something like %40 of his coursework is non-EE. He likes the material, but he's also in it 'cause the job market is so lousy that a masters is becoming somewhat standard.I also know plenty of guys in the masters program 'cause they want to become management. Then there fields like education or psych where a masters is required for most positions. Basically it may be that money, not interest, is the motivator for being in a masters program.

      --
      open source modern art: laser taggi
    39. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      I only had three public school teachers before my mother became fed up with the public school system, none of which particularly impressed me. All of the good teachers I ever encountered were in private schools. Then too as you allude, the problem is systemic, not so much with individual teachers or students but the policies of school administration that are detrimental to student development.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    40. Re:The source of the problem by Combatso · · Score: 1

      I don't know if I would agree with you... I mean, i can't speak for society as a whole, but for the people I interact with, I would say we hold teachers in high regard... Perhaps its because a few old friends have become teachers.. or perhaps becuase we enjoy education..

    41. Re:The source of the problem by gorzek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      God, I wish I had mod points.

      In the world of enterprise software, you must have well-written requirements. And specs. Everything needs to be written down so five years down the road you aren't left wondering why you did something a certain way. Or, God forbid, you get hit by a bus and some other poor sucker has to figure out what you did and why. I've seen programmers whose written English is so poor as to border on illiteracy. They write specs that are complete nonsense. It doesn't matter how good a programmer you are if you can't put what you code into plain English so others can understand it.

      On the subject of cheating, I recently had a candidate who was given a coding assignment so I could gauge their programming abilities. Nothing too serious, I just wanted to make sure this person could actually code, right? They submitted something blatantly copied from a website. Very little Google searching turned up the original source. I don't know what's worse: that they didn't think they'd get caught; that they thought I was too stupid to figure out what they did; or that they simply didn't care enough to do the assignment on their own. I mean, if you'd cheat in the process of applying for a job, why the hell would I want you to work for me?

    42. Re:The source of the problem by Combatso · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is why i dont equate cheating with copying... The purpose of education (in my lowest-common-denominator-speak) is to copy your instructor (or course material).. We copy their notes, we copy their conclusions... most importantly, we copy their process for drawing conclusions.. Cheating to me is sidestepping the process and being given the conclusion..

      I did a little teaching at a local college, it was just Second year VB6. I told students its much easier to google up an algorithm, than to try and rewrite it every time.. The real test is how you use them.. Students that called sub routines often (re-use code) rather then past the same logic over and over again.. those are the ones I knew had a knack for code.. The marks I gave out were mostly on interaction... The ones that asked questions, and specifically, the ones the re-asked the question when it seemed contradictory to any prior advice I had given them... The ones that stay quiet in the back, or dont show up for class... then suddenly turn in a perfect project, would get my attention... then I would set out to decide if they were savants, or just cheaters... I was happy to find out most were savants, as they had been tinkering with programming concepts at home and at previous schools..

    43. Re:The source of the problem by Combatso · · Score: 1

      This is true... having had to suffer through a class on Photography on your way to a career as an analyst certainly is painfull.. especially when they pile work on.

    44. Re:The source of the problem by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      I spent years teaching CS students and it was always a problem.

      I once received a lower grade (due to curve) in an upper division CS project course because other people in the course, who had connections to resources from previous course iterations, cheated. It makes it hard for honest students who really want to try to implement something from scratch and have an honest go at actually learning something to compete with the cheaters. Of course, now that we are out in the real world working as software developers, who is going to be better: the student who has actually written code and gotten his own projects bootstrapped or the one who had good grades but cheated? Most of the CS cheating, in my experience, occurs in lower division lab courses (I once had someone steal my assignment off the print queue and was forced to defend my implementation in a meeting with the professor; the other guy got busted for cheating), but it happens in upper division as well. IMHO, the CS departments out there need to take a tougher stand against cheaters. Of course, these days the parents hire a lawyer and go after the university for accusing their "brilliant" son or daughter of cheating so I can understand the reluctance of some professors to pursue the matter, but letting it go only punishes honest students and encourages cheaters.

    45. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is incidental. The source of the problem is the basic failure of the relationship between business and citizens. Most citizens want good paying jobs. Business wants labor to be trained before they are hired. But, high schools don't successfully prepare students for work or college. Therefore, business demands college education. Now the colleges see that they can make a buck by enrolling all these new students and lowering their standards. However, the institution designed for cultivating the best and brightest has been effectively reduced to a diploma mill. Hence, all the cheating.
       
      Who can blame the students? They are not the best and the brightest. They want a job. The piece of paper stands between them and gainful employment. Therefore, they will do whatever it takes to get it. Business doesn't demand that people actually know anything. They demand a piece of paper.
       
      What we need is more trade schools. Business needs to get together with the people (and the government) to design schools that will fill the needs of the job market. Business needs to bite the bullet, and help pay for said schools. Graduates would be trained, with experience, so that they can step into their new job. This would satisfy the needs of business, and the needs of the student who doesn't care about Pavlov's dog, or the integral of e^-x. Then college enrollment would go down, and they could get back to the business of educating people who actually want to be there.

    46. Re:The source of the problem by Firethorn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was thinking 'in the commercial world' - English majors are mostly an 'internal product' of the teaching world. You generally don't become an english major if you're looking for work outside the teaching environment. Which would make for some distortions, since most works in english aren't written by, or even reviewed by, english majors.

      That's not to say that I don't value their education and teachings, but that I honestly see more personal value in a technical writing course than I do most literary appreciation type courses. Because I'm NOT going to be the one to write the next great novel - I'm more likely to be trying to write regulations, personal evaluations*, reports, documentation.

      *One line bullet statements; it's not real english.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    47. Re:The source of the problem by ciaran.mchale · · Score: 1

      Holy fuck is it annoying to completely rewrite document after document produced by a bunch of slackers who think because they know how to ping something that means they can be practically nonfunctional at everything else including such basic things as language.

      That reminds me of an old piece of graffiti: I used to want to be an engineer. Now I are one.

    48. Re:The source of the problem by bsolar · · Score: 1

      Are these teachers valuable due to their English degree?

    49. Re:The source of the problem by backwardMechanic · · Score: 1

      Or maybe it's easier/quicker/cheaper to test if someone owns a piece of paper, rather that whether they learned anything?

    50. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 3, Funny

      You know what's ironic? (And I'm surprised nobody's called me out on it yet...) I realize after review that I put a sentence in that post without a verb. I have met the enemy, and he is me.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    51. Re:The source of the problem by jafac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your statement is true; and suggests an economic inbalance; an unnatural inflation in wages in the US job market. . . which, in my observation, is true: to match, certain other (heavily subsidized and/or legislatively monopolized) segments of the economy whose costs have spiraled out of control: entertainment, medicine/healthcare, law, banking/finance (especially including housing and automotive).

      The "matriculated class" deals with these highly-inflated segments. The "uneducated" do not; usually. The governmental interference in these segments has been meant to address problems of income shortfalls in the working class, but instead, inflated those prices; made the degree into some sort of "magical piece of paper" - required to gain entrance into the magical land of >$40k salaries and bennies. (which, used to cut it back in the 1980's, doesn't cut it anymore. now it's more like >$100k, or >$150k for that standard of living). Unfortunately - the associated skills learned are not even roughly equivalent to 5 years professional experience in the field.

      Why does the government need to interfere in these segments of the economy by subsidizing? Because of our ideology. So we can pretend to be a free-capitalist market, while, in actuality, being a heavily corporatist/socialist economic system. Because our government lacks the very fundamental power to create its own currency. (and therefore, is not a real government.) Because of this: these subsidies are "for show" subsidies - and only act to distort the market. They help no-one, and long-term, to more harm than good. Due to the geometric progression of interest owed on borrowed money, eventually, we (the "responsible parties" of the government debt) are going to be completely screwed.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    52. Re:The source of the problem by mikestew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world?

      It's not valuable at all if you're content to be the low-level code monkey who just does what he's told. The instant you need to communicate proposals, specs or requirements to other people, it will serve you well to not come across as borderline illiterate. I've actually heard the ol' "you know what I meant" defense from people that would never say that to a compiler. (Well, they probably say it same as I do, but they wouldn't expect the compiler to take them seriously.)

      Hope you like working for The Man(tm). If you want to strike out on your own, it's been my experience that potential clients or VCs often hesitate to give money to folks that can barely string two words together in a proposal or business plan.

      Essay writing is valuable, as are other less technical subjects. Despite whatever we might have thought in college, we don't spend our entire day feeding instructions to a machine.

    53. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is anybody valuable due to their degree? I think people either have a talent for their field or they don't. Some people can coast off of a piece of paper earned through regurgitating lecture notes, but I don't think many if any truly excel in and/or advance their field as a direct result of their degree-earning process.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    54. Re:The source of the problem by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      I think you're conflating the education process with the final result of that process.

      Einstein and the others had completed their education, and were driving forward the boundaries of knowledge. Aka scientists.

      The guy who's going to code yet another database front-end app will not be driving forward the boundaries of knowledge. He has different educational needs because he is not, nor will he ever be, a scientist.

      Typically our education system funnels everyone towards an education where you could create cutting-edge research. After all, that's what the professors want to do. However, the vast majority of students do not want this and will not make use of it.

      We'd probably be better off creating multiple education paths, where those seeking more of an "Engineering"-style education can get the training they need to do their future job. Meanwhile, those who wish to do groundbreaking research can get a more "Scientific"-style education.

      I'd argue that I just described the difference between a bachelor's and advanced degrees. However, we've spent a few centuries mixing the educational needs and degrees.

    55. Re:The source of the problem by ironjaw33 · · Score: 1

      For some doctoral theses, you are required to sign a plagiarism notice stating that the work you are presenting as original has not been previously published elsewhere, even if it was credited to yourself.

      This is interesting, as my PhD thesis is essentially a compilation of my published conference and journal papers. Of course, I do cite these papers in my thesis.

    56. Re:The source of the problem by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Offtopic or not, your book sounds like an interesting book and one which I'd very much like to read. Good luck in your endeavors.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    57. Re:The source of the problem by davidwr · · Score: 1

      No the source of the problem is the value of the degree exceeds the value of the courses.

      A college degree or any other multi-year task shows you can start a long-term project then see it through to completion.

      To an employer, this is an asset.

      No doubt some employers over-value this but it does have value.

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    58. Re:The source of the problem by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know what's ironic? (And I'm surprised nobody's called me out on it yet...) I realize after review that I put a sentence in that post without a verb.

      That just might have something to do with the fact that not all verbless sentences are wrong, or inappropriate. They're just bad style from time to time.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    59. Re:The source of the problem by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which code would you rather maintain?

      Preferably one in which the meaning of the latter would be readable in the body of the function without resorting to describing the algorithm in English.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    60. Re:The source of the problem by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      My point was that someone who's getting a degree will often feel that the school's graduation requirements requirements do not confer sufficient benefit to them.

      Back when I got my degree, we had relatively simple general ed requirements. We had to take 2 courses each division. Loosely, the divisions were "Arts", "Science/Math", and "Language/Applied Sciences/Philosophy"

      It was trivially easy to find 2 courses you wanted to take within those broad divisions. As a result, one didn't cheat because you were getting something of value - you actually wanted to learn the stuff.

      For the year that followed me, the College changed the general education requirements into a byzantine system that required far more total general education courses with much more specific limitations. In fact, the general ed requirements became so bad that it was literally impossible to double-major in less than 5 years.

      Since it was extremely difficult to find courses that satisfied the requirements, the students were taking a lot of courses they didn't care about. As a result, they blew off the classes and cheating became a major problem.

    61. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they are incompetent. If you wrote it before you have already proven that you have the skill. The only reason they want you to write something new is because there is merit BS'ing out words.
      Those schools should be named and shamed.

    62. Re:The source of the problem by h00manist · · Score: 1

      I think the importance of writing skills gets well laid out in this story about Brockton High.
      http://millermps.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/brockton-mass-large-school-reform-that-works
      [...]All Brockton teachers, including Bob Perkins, the math chairman, incorporate writing lessons. [...] organize a schoolwide campaign that involved reading and writing lessons into every class in all subjects, including gym.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    63. Re:The source of the problem by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      ...Then marriage, kids, 30-40 years of coasting, and retirement with a million and a half in your 401(k).

      Heh, I wish. Or rather, I don't. OK, I'm married, but I don't have kids (never wanted them, and the future I see is not one I would wish to inflict on my offspring).

      I will never get to retire, and I will die (by many people's standards) a pauper, but I will still consider my life fully (if not well) lived.

    64. Re:The source of the problem by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      One of the most important skills that the humanities teach students is how to write properly

      I used to think likewise until I read some work of the (now fortunately deceased) supervisor of some of my friends in the course of writing their PhD (history) theses. I was appalled to see such abysmal writing mannerisms ("This is Spot. See Spot run.") in formal writing, and I was even more appalled to see how she had managed to perpetuate this infection in the work of her students who then continued to unquestioningly pass it on as gospel.

    65. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only had three public school teachers before my mother became fed up with the public school system, none of which particularly impressed me.

      "None of which" implies that several exist, so why the singular system?

    66. Re:The source of the problem by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Well at the moment I consider myself ... an okay writer, I guess. Demo mada jouzu ja arimasen.... People praise my writing sometimes but people are biased to give praise to not sound like assholes. It's not completely shitty, so it's accepted.

      To that end I am studying technical writing some. A little improvement would go a long way.

    67. Re:The source of the problem by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Your argument is that we should all offshore our papers to India, to demonstrate we can manage a multi-year task. The actual content of the course doesn't matter.

      Instead, I was arguing that it's up to the educators to make better classes, so the students want to learn the material.

    68. Re:The source of the problem by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fully/well lived? By now or by then? Or is this a continued project?

      Consider someone who does nothing.. maybe plays Go, works, comes home and meditates a lot. A person who sits around calming themselves, focusing introspectively, and considering everything around them, thinking about things, trying to understand things. Seems like a waste of time, right?

      Many people I know actively reject knowledge. They "don't want to know, don't want to learn" anything new. When I try to explain simple things that are new, I often get cut-off by anyone over 30 who figures they learned enough in college and now should be able to put up a brick wall to all new knowledge and just watch TV and work. (By the way, parenting problems much? You're watching TV, who is watching the kids....)

      I have difficulty respecting this. Zero-feedback self enrichment I can respect. You're useless to me but you have a job, you get paid to work, I can't demand more of you. What I can't deal with is people around me that want to just stop, as if they're now working so they're now entitled to close off the entire world and live in their little life like they're finished ... well ...living. These are the people that get laid off when the company moves on, or that get lost in the growth of technology or the market, and complain it's not fair they no longer have a job. These people are cogs in machines, easily replaced and overall worthless... necessary, but worthless.

      Why would you actively avoid any form of self-enrichment, any and all forms of mental exploration, any new knowledge? Why recoil from the thought of putting anything new and technical in your brain? Why throw a tantrum like a child if something suggests you might need to think for fifteen seconds to figure something out? I don't get it.

    69. Re:The source of the problem by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      He's cynical, but unfortunately he's right.

    70. Re:The source of the problem by hesiod · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or, God forbid, you get hit by a bus and some other poor sucker has to figure out what you did and why.

      Why are hypothetical programmers always being hit by hypothetical buses? Also, why is it always suggested that they are poor at documenting their hypothetical code?

    71. Re:The source of the problem by gorzek · · Score: 2, Informative

      For "bus" you may substitute some other sudden or not-so-sudden tragedy. The point is, the people who work here today may not be here tomorrow, and the software must still be maintained in any case.

      It's not just documenting code that matters, it's having documented specifications. The specs say how the system should work. The code says how it does work. These things are not always the same and it's worthwhile to know where you have discrepancies.

      Programmers often seem to think of documentation and other paperwork as useless overhead. Some of it may be, but bona fide requirements and specifications are invaluable for any kind of large, complex system.

    72. Re:The source of the problem by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      My point was that someone who's getting a degree will often feel that the school's graduation requirements requirements do not confer sufficient benefit to them.

      Especially if they're in the redundancy faculty of redundancy.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    73. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Informative

      The antecedent for 'none' was 'teachers'. The real mistake which would have been damning had you pointed it out was that the pronoun 'which' should have been 'whom'.

      (And before any criticism is leveled at my punctuation, I take the British approach to quotes as it is more logical.)

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    74. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you know the material, it's immaterial where you learned it.

      But work you did for a prior class represents knowledge you had, not necessarily knowledge you have.

    75. Re:The source of the problem by Rary · · Score: 1

      You know what's ironic? (And I'm surprised nobody's called me out on it yet...) I realize after review that I put a sentence in that post without a verb. I have met the enemy, and he is me.

      What is unacceptable in a university paper can be acceptable in a forum posting.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    76. Re:The source of the problem by ngg · · Score: 1

      And not only doctoral theses. My undergrad university (and I'm sure many others) prohibited turning in work that had been originally done for a previous course. It really doesn't seem that unreasonable: if the courses are so similar that you can reuse substantial parts of your prior work, then why should you get course credit? You don't usually get credit for taking a course twice (yes, yes, advanced topics / independent study / etc. aside)

    77. Re:The source of the problem by scamper_22 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Unfortunately, in a highly credentialed society we depend on grades to determine who is fit to do work and who to listen to.
      It's the entire premise behind progressivism... that academics can give you the answer better than the trial and error of a free society.
      Well who do you propose to listen to in a progressive society? The ones with the best grades in the academic system.

      Personally, I'm much more of a free market person where we should have as few barriers to entry as possible. If you go to school and get your degree and it helps you be innovative or provide better services... wonderful.

      Yet in the credential oriented world, your success is determined by the grades you get... thus making cheating such a key thing students need to do.
      And unfortunately, all the things that test critical thinking and ability (projects/papers... )are too easy to cheat on.
      So the best you can do is grind people through really really really hard regular exams and test to hopefully weed out enough people to then test them in more detail.

      This is largely what things like Medschool. There are loads of exams and test... and many of them just memorization. This weeds out so many people. Then once that is done, they can go to more of the practical and analytical sections. But those are hard to test and residency is where you learn the real work... and no one is going to fail your residency.. they know you've invested too much.

      A free society as messy as it is... is much better than the alternatives. Unfortunately, academics hate messiness and want everything to be systemic.

    78. Re:The source of the problem by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world?

      When the editor of a trade magazine contacted me to ask if I'd like to write some columns for him, I was happy to be able to put a few coherent pages together. Being able to list your publications on a resume could be pretty valuable.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    79. Re:The source of the problem by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The humanities just need to acknowledge that 99% of their students view them as a hurdle they have to leap on their way to whatever degree they are really after.

      Right, because nobody actually wants to graduate in humanities subjects. And even if they did, they'd be vastly outnumbered - almost a hundred to one - by scientists and engineers fulfilling those "breadth" requirements.

      I hope you aren't a math major.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    80. Re:The source of the problem by Doomdark · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I used to think this way, but over the years I have come to conclusion that talent as a factor tends to be overrated. Talent is important mostly for the absolute best in the field, where it can differentiate; but below that, hard work actually matters a lot. And hard work typically comes from enthusiasm of individual, and is part of virtuous cycle (see "10k hours rule") of one working hard doing things one likes, which is influenced by positive feedback.

      This is just to say that while degree itself may not be all that important, having had to actually work to get it helps a lot, and so most people with degrees are better in their profession as a result. I certainly knew how to program well before college. But I also learnt a lot in college, and it would have taken much longer to get equivalent of theoretical knowledge. I was motivated to study of course, so just copying papers or code would have been of very little value.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    81. Re:The source of the problem by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can argue by anecdote too!

      All my schooling prior to college was in a public school system. While they didn't pay their teachers at great rates, they were better than most of the surrounding area, which definitely helped. I had a mix, but most were either competent or better than competent. My second grade teacher in particular did some really innovative math teaching, and my fifth grade teacher taught me a great deal about writing well rather than just writing correctly.

      But none of that really counts as evidence. What might count is that my public high school had higher average SAT and AP scores (among those who chose to take those exams) than either the Catholic high school or the private rich-kids high school in the same area.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    82. Re:The source of the problem by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      if the courses are so similar that you can reuse substantial parts of your prior work, then why should you get course credit?

      For the same reason that "if the courses are so similar that you can reuse substantial parts of your prior work", why should you pay for it?

      That's the core of the administrations' concerns these days.

    83. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure you know what a verb is? All of your sentences contain verbs.

    84. Re:The source of the problem by hesiod · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I understood what you were saying, and agree.

      I just recall seeing "hit by a bus" as a common argument for commenting code -- more than any other sudden cause of death/disappearance.

    85. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why?

    86. Re:The source of the problem by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1
      You fail at proofreading even more than I do. You can't even find an error when you're told it's there:

      Even in exclusive humanities-focused programs.

      No verb in that (or this)! Now, slag off AC.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    87. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in order to turn it in again you would have to have it wouldn't you.

    88. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it may be important to create a design proposal that is at least functional and clear, the fact that it would be more valued than the actual product shows how the corporate world is broken. The product itself is less important than the paper we are required to write about the product. So very backwards.

    89. Re:The source of the problem by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ugh, one of my worst classes was a writing class done this way. Most people, and myself, were in engineering or science or social sciences. The star student however was a philosophy major. He would rip apart everyone's paper like it was a competition (we were NOT graded on a curve and it was pass/no-pass), and rip it apart in a way that made it clear that you were an inferior human being. And the grad student instructor would always agree with him. I had liked writing before, and the only thing I learned in that class was that I no longer liked writing. I still don't decades later.

    90. Re:The source of the problem by catchblue22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you and I have rather different conceptions of education.

      Einstein and the others had completed their education, and were driving forward the boundaries of knowledge. Aka scientists.

      I think the above statement indicates your conception of the purpose of education. You imply that the purpose of a scientific education is to "drive forward the boundaries of knowledge". At first this sounds very much like what I think. However, I believe there is an implicit assumption that the sole purpose of "driving forward the boundaries of knowledge" is to increase the material well being of society; aka to make money. If you do believe that, then our ideas of education differ greatly.

      While education can and does increase the material well being of society, this cannot be its only purpose. If I were Socrates, I would probably be able to ask you a series of questions that would lead you to realize that the assumption that education is only for material gain leads to logically fatal self-contradictions. But I am not Socrates. So I am left to give some quotations from Greek philosophers:

      "The purpose of education is to teach us to love beauty." Plato

      "The educated differ from the uneducated as much as the living from the dead." Aristotle

      "The un-considered life is not worth living." Socrates

      The above quotations point to a type of education which I believe is increasingly foreign to contemporary students. You see glimpses of it, in passionate scientists like Carl Sagan, or Richard Feynman. However, I believe that most students today receive an education that seems intended to make them into drones, drifting through life with no other purpose than to fulfill a role in a huge bureaucratic machine.

      The fact that in the public sphere we have largely ceded education to the purpose of wealth creation is disturbing to me. By your comment I can tell that you didn't have a conception of what I meant from my original comment. Many of my educational ideals are gained by reading the writings of the ancient Greeks.

      I believe that it is very important for more of us to begin reading the Greek Philosophers again. Their ideas, their ideals were what lifted civilization out of the Dark Ages. Greek philosophy is what sparked the modern scientific revolution. The Greeks gave us our ideals of law and justice. They were the first moneyed society, and many of their tragic plays can be seen as warnings about the perils of money. The Greeks created the first recognizable universities, and our modern educational system is largely modelled after Greek institutions.

      So if you really want to understand my ideas of education, read some Greek literature. Read Plato's "The Apology". Read some tragedies by Sophocles. Read the Iliad. Twice. Read some Aristotle. Study some philosophy. Read Kant. Read Locke. Then come back and tell me that we should educate the vast majority of citizens to be corporate drones.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    91. Re:The source of the problem by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Because it's sudden and unlikely. The most common reason is probably quitting, followed by being fired. And, though vastly more likely that being hit by a bus, they aren't proper topics for work discussion. So "hit by a bus" is used as a euphemism of sorts.

      "Comment that better so the guy who replaces you after I fire you can understand it" doesn't quite have the same ring to it, even if a much more common occurrence..

    92. Re:The source of the problem by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "When was the last time a person with an English Degree really had value in society?"

      Teachers that teach other people how to speak and write in English? Sort of a bad example there, but I've sort of been saying what you've been saying for a while now.

      Forcing students to take classes which have nothing to do with their desired professions instead of just teaching them the basics early on and then letting them choose the classes in high school merely increases the rate of failures and wastes a tremendous amount of time. Usually people don't do so well in classes that don't interest them, and if they do manage to do well, they will have wasted their time as they will likely forget this useless information quickly. It's a lose-lose situation. You run the risk of failing an entire year because of one useless class. That is inefficient. Also, changing the educational system to what I said above may also increase expertise in desired subjects (as they could put more of their time into learning that).

      Naturally, some students may change their mind about their desired profession later on, but as I said, information that you don't use is quickly forgotten, so even if they are forced to take every class in existence, they will need to take another class on the subject that they need anyway because they will likely have forgotten it. There's simply no reason for things to be as they are now.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    93. Re:The source of the problem by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I think the issue is that taking a paper you wrote n-years ago, doesn't prove that you -still- know it, only that you did then.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    94. Re:The source of the problem by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Whether or not they are interested in the topic may not matter if they despise writing papers.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    95. Re:The source of the problem by Eightbitgnosis · · Score: 1

      Your right, alot of bad grammar gets passed on

    96. Re:The source of the problem by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I've gone all through school with the minimal amount of effort required. I'm fascinated with this stuff, but I'll be damned if I put any effort into your* little essay. This doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm doing, or that I'm not learning - I just get a different value out of the effort/worth formula than the paper-writing freaks seem to consider normal.

      I, personally, wouldn't hire such a service - I do think it's dishonest. But I could certainly see how others with different value systems would.

      * - not actually you - I'm sure you get the expression.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    97. Re:The source of the problem by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      My failure to respect a course's want for me to write a fluff paper does not have any bearing on my having learned the material or not.

      Writing papers should not be a general way to evaluate such retention. It has it's place, and passing/failing people for every subject under the sun by them is not it.

      This is one of the real failings of the system, in my opinion.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    98. Re:The source of the problem by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      However, I believe there is an implicit assumption that the sole purpose of "driving forward the boundaries of knowledge" is to increase the material well being of society; aka to make money. If you do believe that, then our ideas of education differ greatly.

      I have no idea how you got that from my post.

      IMO there's fundamentally two classes of education: Those that prepare you for a career/job, and those that prepare you to further our knowledge. We need a lot more of the former building on the successes and failures of the latter. The fact that we call both "education" is a lack of subtlety in our language.

    99. Re:The source of the problem by Marful · · Score: 1

      Then what is the point of getting a degree?


      I mean, afterwards, it doesn't prove that you know anything related to your field, after all that was years ago and covers what you knew then and not what you know now.


      The distinction between now and then and knowing is, quite frankly, absolute pure bullshit.

    100. Re:The source of the problem by plover · · Score: 1

      The piece of paper at the end is the important part, the classes leading to that piece of paper are failing to provide sufficient benefit to the students.

      College: You're doing it wrong.

      No, the college is doing it wrong if they're not holding up their end of the tuition deal by providing sub-standard classes.

      What is a college? It's not bricks and trees and streets named after long-dead benefactors. It's a group of people with a good reputation for passing on valuable knowledge. In other words, it's branding. If Harvard Law School graduates end up with a reputation for losing 100% of their cases, a degree from Harvard Law School would be worthless. But they don't - Harvard Law graduates have a high reputation amongst the legal community. Other lawyers believe these students worked very hard to graduate. The brand has a high reputation.

      So if these colleges get a poor reputation for grinding out ill-prepared idiots, their brand will be devalued as nobody will respect their graduates' degrees. That's a quick path to destruction for a school.

      --
      John
    101. Re:The source of the problem by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Fully/well lived? By now or by then? Or is this a continued project?

      Obviously it's still a work in progress, so the answer is yes, yes and yes.

      Why throw a tantrum like a child if something suggests you might need to think for fifteen seconds to figure something out?

      I hope your question is rhetorical, since what you say in no way contradicts my post.

    102. Re:The source of the problem by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      I'm going to call bullshit on this. This would have resulted in him flunking literally the entire course, which is not something a professor can do without expecting to loose his tenure.

      I've seen stupid uses of it, but none that severe.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    103. Re:The source of the problem by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      There's a difference here. The doctoral committee is more interested in whether or not it's been published before. Also, they don't expect you to do more work simply because you already did some awhile back. If your entire thesis is comprised of your prior works then that's just fine.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    104. Re:The source of the problem by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "if the courses are so similar that you can reuse substantial parts of your prior work, then why should you get course credit?"

      Because they're required courses? No one in their right mind takes two identical courses.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    105. Re:The source of the problem by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Well I happen to think that the idea of a degree is obsolete as well. Unless degrees start coming with expiration dates unless you 'refresh' it somehow...

      I don't understand your last bit though. You say there is no difference between having known in the past and knowing now. How can you explain that without making no sense at all?

      If I used to know how to build a raft (random example) but I no longer remember, then I can't exactly go about building a raft should I need to, can I?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    106. Re:The source of the problem by EdgeyEdgey · · Score: 1

      I always took the phrase to be a threat; what would happen if you didn't document.

      --
      [Intentionally left blank]
    107. Re:The source of the problem by chrb · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      If your entire thesis is comprised of your prior works then that's just fine.

      It's fine for some institutions and types of PhD. It is not fine for others, where the institution will insist that the work must be original and not previously published.

    108. Re:The source of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haha actually it sounds like you learned something else: you're a huge baby that is easily discouraged by mean, mean people, who then have huge power over the rest of your life:)

    109. Re:The source of the problem by Marful · · Score: 1

      I don't understand your last bit though. You say there is no difference between having known in the past and knowing now. How can you explain that without making no sense at all?

      I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I am not saying that you can't forget things, I am responding to when you said:

      I think the issue is that taking a paper you wrote n-years ago, doesn't prove that you -still- know it, only that you did then.

      I.E. that the arbitrary assumption that because someone wrote the paper in the past that they in fact don't know it now is bullshit.

    110. Re:The source of the problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      For the same reason that "if the courses are so similar that you can reuse substantial parts of your prior work", why should you pay for it?

      That's the core of the administrations' concerns these days.

      Not really. You still need the piece of paper to differentiate yourself from the legions of people who want the same job.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    111. Re:The source of the problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      On the subject of cheating, I recently had a candidate who was given a coding assignment so I could gauge their programming abilities. Nothing too serious, I just wanted to make sure this person could actually code, right? They submitted something blatantly copied from a website. Very little Google searching turned up the original source. I don't know what's worse: that they didn't think they'd get caught; that they thought I was too stupid to figure out what they did; or that they simply didn't care enough to do the assignment on their own. I mean, if you'd cheat in the process of applying for a job, why the hell would I want you to work for me?

      Why would you want to hire someone too stupid to reuse code?

      You could perhaps provide some more logic to explain why you feel this way, but from your comment, that's the feeling I get.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    112. Re:The source of the problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As long as employers care more about the piece of paper than your actual skills then the college, whose job is to serve the students and not the employers, is only doing its job by acting as a degree mill.

      Employers have created this situation. The rest of the market is just trying to keep up with demand for papered idiots.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    113. Re:The source of the problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You didn't learn that you have to sometimes solve your problems diplomatically. You needed to make yourself a nuisance to the people who could make your life hell. The grad student is the check on the star student, the instructor is the check on the grad student, the dean is the check on the instructor, and you are the check on the dean; if you are in a school which is treating you like this, then you ought to vote with your feet, and go to another school. You did research the institution before you attended it, right?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    114. Re:The source of the problem by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      How does that contradict what I said? They don't care what you learned, they care that you paid the requisite tuition for said piece of paper.

    115. Re:The source of the problem by stonewallred · · Score: 0

      Maybe get rid of humanities? WTF do I need to know about 14th century Art if my major is Social Work or EE or Psychology? I personally pay to go to college for an education in my chosen field, not the fucktarded shit losers who have no skills think I should learn to be "well rounded". If I wanted to be "well rounded" I get a job as a college professor and sit on my ass all day getting fat and being lazy.

    116. Re:The source of the problem by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      Correct. There is a company in town who spent a couple thousand per tech to have them all "certified". And surprise, surprise, surprise, they all managed to get "certified" by the national organization, so now the company can make the advertising claim their technicians are "x" certified technicians. Only problem is that their techs are morons as are their installers and their calculation manager who designs the systems. I go out to their jobs about once or twice a month as a contract company tech/troubleshooter for one of the manufacturers and these morons are at fault every time. Sized wrong, designed wrong, or installed wrong. But they all got that fancy piece of paper.

    117. Re:The source of the problem by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      An education is a piece of paper from a recognized institution saying you have been educated. Knowledge comes from self-learning, done for personal satisfaction.

    118. Re:The source of the problem by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Oh, well then.

      Still, I don't quite get why you react that way. Just because you knew then really doesn't mean that you know now! Unless you've got an eidetic memory or something (and in that case, you should put this fact in it: not everyone does)

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  15. Students will only punish themselves by Albanach · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Students are placing a lot of trust in these folk. What if one of the writers sells an old laptop on eBay and the recipient posts the hundreds of essays on the interwebs. If you were to wait twenty years before doing so, you would probably find at least a few of the clients now hold well paid jobs. Similarly, these folk are at very great risk of future blackmail when their job, family and home are on the line.

    Students will eventually suffer if it becomes too much of a problem. Courses will simply revert back to 100% final exams.

    1. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone who steals their way in life like that, will deserve every bit of pain it brings them. But the sad truth, is that someone who has street smarts, who cheats instead of study, will always fare better than someone who does not.

      Nice guys finish last ...

    2. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Amouth · · Score: 1

      Courses will simply revert back to 100% final exams.

      i would have preferred that when i was in school..

      my favorite part of doing classes by distance ed (even as i was taking others on campus) was that all the course work was put out ahead of time.. i would take 1-2 weeks and every night just sit down and crunch it out.. at the end of that the class was over for me except the exam..

      honestly the slow pace of classes is what i hated the most.. i would much rather get them over with - summer classes where easier and more informative than normal semester classes.

      if they would have had 100% finals i would just read and learn on my own and stop by to ask questions and then show up for basically any special lab/review sessions and the final - and i would have been much happier that way.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    3. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just like in England...

    4. Re:Students will only punish themselves by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      "Integrity won't keep you warm and sane." -NoFX

      It's terrible because it's true.

    5. Re:Students will only punish themselves by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Why should this guy lose a laptop or someone should post it on eBay?

      This guy could just note his client list in a little black book. And watch their careers. If any of them make it big, he will have a great steady source of income. Some would call it blackmail, but it is more likely to be grayish mail. If this guy is smart he would not go for money but power. Become a deal maker.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    6. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Spad · · Score: 1

      I'd be more concerned about the fact that you're not actually learning anything by doing this. The days when simply having a degree was enough to get you a job are long gone; if you can't demonstrate actual knowledge of the subject in hand then you're screwed.

      If you're going to cheat your way through a degree then you might as well just buy one from some unaccredited online "university" - it'll be a lot cheaper and worth just as much.

    7. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure I follow.

      After a person graduates, it's hard to take their degree away. Even if there is very clear evidence on cheating in one class, the hassle for the university may not be worth it to attempt. Not to mention the damage to the universities' reputation; can you imagine a university essentially stating, "We're so poor in monitoring students, we give away diplomas to anyone who pays"?

      I posit the opposite conclusion as you: if this were found 20 years later, everyone involved would pretend like it didn't exist unless some sort of media attention were brought to it.

    8. Re:Students will only punish themselves by fermion · · Score: 1
      Some think that colleges are there to force students to learn. Far from this, schools are there to provide opportunity. Some students will take advantage of this, some will not. Suffering becomes immediate because they are wasting their money. The solution to this is accept and fund students who are interested in learning, rather than just hanging out and partying.

      In terms of 100% finals, this should almost be the norm. Paper should be formative assessment, with a combination of in class and out of class writing. Finals cannot typically be essay as they must be graded quickly. Thesis should be rather difficult to buy as they must be defended.

      I think what we are actually seeing is a rise in the "professional" degree, often funded by corporate. Schools are willing to play because these degrees are profit centers, often $50-100K for a degree.Corporate trusts schools to award valid grades, which is then used for reimbursement. In fact no party has great incentive to prevent cheating, so all parties are complicit.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    9. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who has worked at a university I have to let you know that after the grade/degree is final it is final. There are no consequences of finding out afterwards, and the potential for blackmail here is minimal.

    10. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As someone who has worked at a university I have to let you know that after the grade/degree is final it is final. There are no consequences of finding out afterwards, and the potential for blackmail here is minimal.

      Sorry, but that's not true. I knew somebody whose PhD was rescinded due to plagiarism. The guy basically chucked away ten years of his life, because he can't do anything related to the field he studied - nobody will write recommendations for him.

    11. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of my courses didn't do 100% final exams, unless you failed the exam. Project based courses would be 60% project, 40% exam, you must pass the exam to pass the course.

    12. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      future blackmail when their job, family and home are on the line

      If they're working in academia and forged their doctoral thesis, okay.

      Other than that? "Sir, you have been employed with us for fifteen years, but we have been tipped off to the fact that two decades ago you paid someone to write your mid-term paper. Please clear out your desk."

    13. Re:Students will only punish themselves by khallow · · Score: 1

      Other than that? "Sir, you have been employed with us for fifteen years, but we have been tipped off to the fact that two decades ago you paid someone to write your mid-term paper. Please clear out your desk."

      Yes, there are some businesses like that. You also just lost your degree because your university was contacted with definite proof. And your customers have been warned.

    14. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No blackmail... if anyone noticed (highly unlikely), just say "Well, that mysterious online paper was copied from the one I wrote".

    15. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why even go that far. some of these cheating sites also sell some of their papers to the anti-cheating sites that schools use. Remember Mercenaries will play both sides if they can get away with it.

    16. Re:Students will only punish themselves by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      honestly the slow pace of classes is what i hated the most.. i would much rather get them over with - summer classes where easier and more informative than normal semester classes.

      Oh god, so true. Just about every course but my foreign language ones (French) were far too slow. 8-week online courses are much better, but truly most could be 4-week courses if you cut out all the bullshit.

  16. also he may be a liar by FuckingNickName · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, why are we prepared to take it on trust that this man who claims to make his life from cheeters isn't himself cheating the system by exaggerating the extent of his abilities and achievements?

    If it is easy to write an undergraduate nonscientific essay, it is even easier to fake correspondence.

    1. Re:also he may be a liar by dargaud · · Score: 1

      So let's ask him to publish extracts of 'his' multiple theses...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    2. Re:also he may be a liar by martas · · Score: 1

      i think it's somewhat irrelevant whether or not he's telling the truth, since intuitively it seems implausible that what he describes doesn't exist, from a simple demand/supply point of view (and i know the demand is there...).

    3. Re:also he may be a liar by FuckingNickName · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which, of course, won't be plagiarised...

      Except he can't release evidence because that would get the non-authors in trouble.

      So we can't reasonably falsify his statement, as he is aware.

      I get the feeling this man is a scientist and a troll, and he intentionally indicated that he was not writing science/mathematics/engineering papers to mock the other disciplines as bullshit.

      8/10 very good effort.

    4. Re:also he may be a liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's written on the internet. ;-)

      Notice, there is no mention of his writing bills for Senators or Congressmen. Those are only done by industry insiders, where the Senators or Congressmen get paid to say they wrote them. And the others get paid to vote on them without reading them!

      Personally, I don't care how much a student cheats. What's more important is how much he learns, how easily able to get the correct answer to problems, not what he submits to professors in an artificial setting. When he starts working, as his boss, I'd want him to get the correct info fast. Now, if he wants to marry my daughter, that's another thing...

    5. Re:also he may be a liar by DiamondGeezer · · Score: 1

      Why didn't anyone think of this before? You must be a genius.

      --
      Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
    6. Re:also he may be a liar by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Except he can't release evidence because that would get the non-authors in trouble.

      Which would be great...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    7. Re:also he may be a liar by szquirrel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except that his story isn't that hard to believe. I can remember busting out 20-page papers overnight when I was in college and I'm not a particularly fast writer. It's easy to imagine that someone with enough practice and motivation could churn out papers like this for a living.

      Today I code web applications and I recognize the process he describes. He has essentially built a research paper "framework" that lets him quickly build products that fit a baseline set of requirements. In fact it sounds like he rarely even has to come up with a true finished product, essentially building one proof-of-concept after another. It's amazing how fast you can work when you honestly don't care about the details.

      How many code geeks will spends hours and days and weeks over meaningless bullshit projects just because they can? This guy does the same thing with words and he found a way to get paid for it.

      --
      Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
    8. Re:also he may be a liar by thelordx · · Score: 1

      He is a friend of mine. I can assure you (for whatever that's worth), that everything in the article is 100% true and accurate.

    9. Re:also he may be a liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the risk of pointing out the obvious, why are we prepared to take it on trust that this man who claims to make his life from cheeters isn't himself cheating the system by exaggerating the extent of his abilities and achievements?

      "NEVER TRUST A CHEATER."

      That's what I tell my students in my philosophy classes.

      I sometimes make this point by offering to sell "all of the correct answers to the multiple choice quiz for $0.25."

      If someone offers, I tell them all the correct answers are "A, B, C, D, and E."

      Seriously, the way to deal with such cheating is by making the assignments in a class more connected with the particular material in that class, so that only someone who had done that particular set of readings would be able to do well on that assignment. I hated grading generic papers written on some vague topic related peripherally to the class, so I stopped giving assignments like that. Now, I ask quite specific questions that have to be dealt with in a very specific context. It's the difference between asking a student to write a paper on "Hume's epistemology" and asking a student to evaluate Hume's view based on the three specific readings we've discussed in class that each point out a different problem with his epistemology.

      I know that there is a place in academia for allowing students an increasing level of responsibility in selecting and organizing their papers, but I think that the level of the course should determine this. Rather than allowing freshmen to write such papers, we should be leading them through the process of discovering really interesting ideas and engaging them in the art of conversation, and then move them from "neat ideas" and "great conversation" to logical analysis of arguments and formal written papers on carefully chosen topics, and only then allow students to pick and organize their own papers.

    10. Re:also he may be a liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is obviously a modern day Leonardo, so he doesn't have to exaggerate.

    11. Re:also he may be a liar by gsslay · · Score: 1

      And if he's not a liar, he's seriously lacking in moral fibre. It's depressing that he uses the tired old argument "I am not the reason your students cheat". Perhaps you are not, but you are the one doing it. That makes you personally involved and attempt to claim you're just a cog in the machinery is pathetic avoidance of your personal responsibility.

    12. Re:also he may be a liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not likely to be a liar. When I was in college back in the stone age (1980s), I made extra money by typing papers for students who couldn't type, and was paid $1 per page (pretty good money at the time, especially since I typed at 88wpm). I would also edit their work in the event it needed it, for no extra charge. One of my friends also typed papers like I did, but she also worked for another outfit that billed itself as a "Research Service." What that service did was pretty much what this fellow describes. She would get an assignment, usually for a wealthy foreign student with a limited command of the English language, and research their papers, write them and submit them to the student. She was paid $10 per page. This was before everyone had a desktop computer, when electric typewriters were cutting edge technology. This was before Google and Wikipedia. We were undergrad students and she was writing graduate theses for these folks.

      She was good. She was fast. After graduation, she ended up working at NASA as a technical writer for the space shuttle program.

  17. So I guess he doesn't sleep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And sort-of works for an organization more secret then the CIA. Lawrence Block is that you? Heh

  18. Total bullshit by nysus · · Score: 1

    Just the tone of the article is a giveaway. Another giveaway: google "widespread cultural, social, and economic change that would define" which he says is one of his stock phrases. Surely someone would have posted at least one of the papers he claims to crank out. Aside from references to this one article, nothing comes up.

    --

    ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

    1. Re:Total bullshit by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

      "widespread cultural, social, and economic change that would define" which he says is one of his stock phrases.

      Sounds like Tom Friedman to me.

    2. Re:Total bullshit by Spad · · Score: 1

      I can't say I've ever posted any of my undergrad work on the internets; mostly out of shame, but that's beside the point.

    3. Re:Total bullshit by khallow · · Score: 1

      Just the tone of the article is a giveaway. Another giveaway: google "widespread cultural, social, and economic change that would define" which he says is one of his stock phrases. Surely someone would have posted at least one of the papers he claims to crank out. Aside from references to this one article, nothing comes up.

      Why would they? The professors have a good reason not to (because publishing students' course work could enable future cheating). And the students wouldn't want to risk having their cheating exposed. Remember, even if you already graduated, you can lose your degree for this sort of thing.

      One bizarre aspect of this sort of thing is the possibility for blackmail. If this guy is to be believed (and you may be quite right that he's full of bs here), then this guy knows literally hundreds of clients, many whom will go on to well paying or powerful positions (perhaps spread out over the world). Further, he's working through a business that probably handles an order of magnitude more people than that. There well may be thousands of people a year eagerly getting themselves into a position where they can be blackmailed. When you add it that it has the potential to destroy a graduate's future, then this has the makings to be a remarkable, low cost (they even make a profit!) factory for blackmail and extortion.

    4. Re:Total bullshit by Permutation+Citizen · · Score: 1

      Sure. One should read this as fiction.

  19. School to Corporate Prep by mbrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It doesn't take students in higher education long to see cheating and lying are the norm, even required. It prepares them for what they are about to have to do for the Corporations.

    1. Re:School to Corporate Prep by hsmith · · Score: 1

      Yes yes - the evil corporations - we all know the government is filled with truth telling citizens!

    2. Re:School to Corporate Prep by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Those behaviors are rewarded.

      Other than taking precautions not to break any major laws, there is no reason not to be a sociopath in a society that admires it!

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  20. Wonderful Article by crow_t_robot · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This article is loaded with gems. This one particularly caught my eye:

    I, who have no name, no opinions, and no style, have written so many papers at this point, including legal briefs, military-strategy assessments, poems, lab reports, and, yes, even papers on academic integrity, that it's hard to determine which course of study is most infested with cheating. But I'd say education is the worst.

    These are the people that will be future teachers that are too inept to do their own course work that will eventually fail their own students who will in turn purchase academic papers from a professional writer. The vicious cycle continues.

    This appears to be a business that will continue to boom for a long time especially considering how everyone is pushed toward college these days.

    1. Re:Wonderful Article by Spad · · Score: 1

      Well, until all the cheating pupils taught by cheating teachers get to the "Professional Writer" stage, at which point they'll be too dumb to supply the next generation with custom-written essays any more and the whole system will collapse.

  21. That's really amazing and conflicting by vadim_t · · Score: 1

    This article gives me a very mixed feeling. On one hand, holy crap, that's one clever and dedicated guy. I'm not sure about how good is his output, but from the sounds of it, it could be pretty decent, and he takes the job very seriously. I think if he applied that towards some other endeavour he'd be worth his weight in gold. There's got to be a place somewhere that could use his skills for a better end.

    What is really a pity is that what he uses the talent for is for unfairly advancing dribbling morons that shouldn't have passed high school.

    1. Re:That's really amazing and conflicting by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      I suspect it's thoroughly mediocre. Which is to say that it'll get you a "C" in the worst case, probably a "B" or even an "A" under the right circumstances. Any reasonably competent writer can churn out most undergraduate coursework for a humanities or soft science course without being all that expert. I graduated with a degree in History, but I took classes in Lit, Comparative Religions, Philosophy, and Sociology. I got "A" graded papers most of the time in most of those classes, I can't see any reason why I couldn't do so for someone else.

      The conundrum for humanities and social sciences is this:

      Professors want to encourage research rather than rote memorization, thus they prioritize papers over in-class tests. The problem is that papers, by the very nature of being outside research, are easy use this kind of cheating on. You're not *supposed* to be regurgitating facts from class, you're supposed to be finding sources and making connections. The nature of that sort of work is that any reasonably competent researcher and writer can do it for you, precisely because it's not directly related to what you've done in class. Assuming the students actually do the work, this is the best way for them to learn, but it's really easy for them to get someone else to do it.

      The solution, it seems to me, is a combination approach (this is how most of my upper level history classes did it, it would have been much harder to cheat in any of them this way). Make research papers an important part of the grade (say 50%) but not in themselves sufficient to pass. Also give tests, and make them an important part of the grade (again 50% is good) but not in themselves sufficient to pass. Make the tests conceptual rather than fact based. Require students to write short answers rather than using multiple choice. Short answer questions (for 1-2 page definitions of "short") are great in three ways:

      1) They show that students understand the concepts behind the material rather than simple memorization of facts.

      2) They permit a level of error on unimportant details with penalties that scale with the level of error. An overall excellent short answer with a single minor error of fact might still get full points, whereas a minor error of fact in a multiple choice test is simply wrong. Multiple errors, or more serious errors can affect over all points in a relative manner.

      3) It give the professor a writing base line that s/he knows was produced by the student. Is studants ezzay queshions wriiten like thes, but their research papers are all in clear, concise and well written English, you know to be suspicious of the papers.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    2. Re:That's really amazing and conflicting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually he could be helpful to rather smart kids. Ones that actually are good with math and science. The thing is, a lot of colleges and universities require humanities classes for people doing science majors. Let's say you're already cramming on a math and computer science courses to keep high grades in those subjects, it's likely you don't really give a rat's ass about the psychology and English lit bullshit. Yet you may need good enough grades on those pain in the ass humanities courses to keep your GPA up for other reasons. This service fills in the gaps that can allow a student to focus on their core subjects relating to their major without worrying too much about the padded curriculum that the academic system foists upon them.

      Of course there's a really easy way to bust cheating on essays. It simply requires the teacher takes the time to do a post submission interview. If a student can't discuss and make sense of five points explained in their own paper, fail them on that paper. (Yeah, I know - a student could memorize the paper they paid somebody else to do. However it's highly likely if they're already doing that, they don't have the time to bother reading it.)

    3. Re:That's really amazing and conflicting by digitig · · Score: 1

      I suspect it's thoroughly mediocre. Which is to say that it'll get you a "C" in the worst case, probably a "B" or even an "A" under the right circumstances. Any reasonably competent writer can churn out most undergraduate coursework for a humanities or soft science course without being all that expert. I graduated with a degree in History, but I took classes in Lit, Comparative Religions, Philosophy, and Sociology. I got "A" graded papers most of the time in most of those classes, I can't see any reason why I couldn't do so for someone else.

      And yet most students of those subjects don't get "A" graded papers most of the time. When I went to my degree ceremony, it wasn't a very long line for the first-class honours in any subject. Which suggests (to your credit) that it takes more than reasonable competence to get those grades.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  22. Obligatory South Park ref by justleavealonemmmkay · · Score: 4, Funny

    You told us to write an ese, so we sent letters to our friends in Mejico

    1. Re:Obligatory South Park ref by justleavealonemmmkay · · Score: 3, Funny

      The actual text "I wrote three eses: my ese back home, my ese in Denver, and my ese in Glenwood even wrote me back."

    2. Re:Obligatory South Park ref by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      I heard it years ago as "I got pregnant because, for my midterm, they said I had to do an essay."

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  23. Shadow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't the Shadow Broker that guy from the Mass Effect universe?

  24. leik omg! lol! by Sean_Inconsequential · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "thanx so much for uhelp ican going to graduate to now".

    He helped Lolcats graduate. Now they can "haz cheezburger and duhploma."

    Honestly, I would love to be able to afford to go back to school. I would absolutely bust my ass the entire way through, and do so proudly and without complaint. This is either sickening and disappointing or i am just old and cantankerous.

  25. Yeah, but by xx_chris · · Score: 2, Insightful

    have you scored a -1 on Slashdot for someone else?

    1. Re:Yeah, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Edit: What I meant to say was, have you scored a -1 on Slashdot for someone else you bunch of pasty faced, basement dwelling, linux-humpers?

    2. Re:Yeah, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, l SUCK COCKS

      <p><p>
      Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

  26. +1, Informative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always suspected.

    1. Re:+1, Informative by MichaelKristopeit196 · · Score: 1

      you are NOTHING

  27. Ethics by Ltap · · Score: 1

    The ethics thesis he wrote really did it for me. I wonder if the people farming out their thesis-writing saw the irony of their position.

    --
    Yet Another Tech Blog
    (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
    http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    1. Re:Ethics by Sean_Inconsequential · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, It could make a rather interesting thesis: pay someone to write a paper on ethics for you, use the paper as part of your thesis showing how easy it is to have someone else do the work for you and use the paper written for you, your correspondence, et cetera to question the morality of having someone else do the work for you. I am sure i could explain it better but i would rather pay someone else to explain it better in my words.

    2. Re:Ethics by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Don't worry - his clients obviously take academic ethics about as seriously as they take business ethics. I mean, it's not like this newly minted MBA who can't spell properly would go on to, say, take on some important job like managing mortgage-backed securities for Countrywide Financial.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Ethics by Spad · · Score: 4, Funny

      "The Ethics of Cheating on my Ethics Thesis: Did I Cheat? Can You Tell? Does It Matter Anyway?"

    4. Re:Ethics by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      This brings up another reason for these services. I remember back in grad school a number of students writing their papers, turning them in, and then submitting the same prompts to paper writing companies to see how they could have done the same work differently (helpful when dealing with a largely commuter school where inter-student interaction is lower). Other students would write their papers and then buy a second paper before submission in order to evaluate their work before submission (Is that cheating or peer review--kind of a fuzzy line there if they still turned in their original work).

    5. Re:Ethics by digitig · · Score: 1

      When I first started studying ethics I joked that I was doing it so that I could justify whatever I was going to do anyway. By the time I'd finished I'd decided it wasn't a joke. But there's no real irony. Few ethics courses have a practical exam.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    6. Re:Ethics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm on a horse.

    7. Re:Ethics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similar things have actually happened. From a similar article on term paper mills written in 2008:

      You have to make your own fun. In business papers, I'd often cite Marxist sources. When given an open topic assignment on ethics, I'd write on the ethics of buying term papers, and even include the broker's Web site as a source. My own novels and short stories were the topic of many papers — several DUMB CLIENTS rate me as their favorite author and they've never even read me, or anyone else. Whenever papers needed to refer to a client's own life experiences, I'd give the student various sexual hang-ups.

    8. Re:Ethics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was offering to pay! Why'd you do it for free?!?! YOU JUST STOLE SOMEONE'S JOB!

  28. Really? Tell me more! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two questions:

    1) How much money are we talking about?

    2) Can you legally use the title as if it were a 'normal' doctorate?

    I'm curious. I wouldn't be above buying myself a nice cushy astronomy doctorate or some such...

    1. Re:Really? Tell me more! by Byzantine · · Score: 1

      Yes, if you're awarded an honorary doctorate, you can use it, although in many (most? all?) disciplines it's considered poor manners to use any title you haven't earned. And why go to all the trouble and expense to get an honorary doctorate if you can't use it around the people whom you presumably got it to impress?

      Semi-unrelatedly, at some colleges, the highest administrator (Chancellor, President, whatever) is referred to as "Doctor" regardless of his or her actual academic achievements (and permitted to wear doctoral academic regalia at suitable occasions). Once they quit/get fired, they go back to being whatever they were before.

  29. Ha! Obviously he hired someone to write it! by syousef · · Score: 2, Funny

    code to draw and scale using the squiggly lines.

    Splines?

    It's pretty funny that you wrote a report on this but can't remember the name for anything :p

    That's proof that he hired someone to write the report ;-)

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  30. The one nice thing about a music degree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    It's tough as hell to have someone else walk up there in your tux with your horn and give a recital in your name.

    And that 10-pager I wrote on French opera in a two-year span of the 18th century, the only one in the class that got an A -- I'd like to see some shadow writer pull that out of thin air in 6 hours like I did.

    ....yeah, I'm just trying to make myself feel better after finally raking in the salary that my peers got right out of school.

    1. Re:The one nice thing about a music degree... by ginbot462 · · Score: 1

      Being manager of the Starbucks now?

      I kid. I kid.

      Regional Manager.

      (bonus Starbucks Hierarchy Search )

      --
      Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story :: Battlefield Earth : Organized Religion
    2. Re:The one nice thing about a music degree... by Arterion · · Score: 1

      That's what you get for going to the university to study performance. Or maybe you're teaching, but salary there is a different problem. I majored in music (vocal performance) for about a semester. Now I'm doing EE. I figured I can learn the music theory independently, I can still be in ensemble, and there's no possible way for the school to beat the quality and price I can get on my own for private instruction. That's probably the case unless you're going to a really good music school.

      And what am I free of? Recital attendance, endless rehearsals, form and analysis, class piano, music history(!) -- do as much or as little of the music curriculum as you want. If you want to perform for a living, I don't see how an academic degree is very useful.

      When I'm done I'll have a useful degree in something I enjoy. I can still audition for anything I want, and if I'm good, it won't really matter what my degree is in. The only thing I can't do is teach music, which is something I have no interest in anyway.

      The kicker is that, with a degree in performance, there's STILL no measure of how "good" you are. With almost any other degree, you can reasonably assume is the student passed the require courses, they have at least a basic proficiency with those subjects. You can assume someone with a physics degree knows calculus, or that someone with a nursing degree knows basic biology, and so on. With performance... all you know is that they've studied it for at least four years. That may be saying a lot, or may not be saying anything at all. That's why you still have to audition, and why, unless you just really want the music major experience, I think music degrees are useless unless you want to teach.

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    3. Re:The one nice thing about a music degree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got an A--? The worst grade imaginable?

    4. Re:The one nice thing about a music degree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The difference is I posted anon in hopes of multiple +1, Funny nods and to specifically avoid using my karma bonus to self-insert tl;dr anecdotes irrelevant to the topic.

      I agree with your thoughts on the employable value of a music degree. My last line was far more in amusement than actual bitterness. Life experiences are vastly more important to me than salary; I regret nothing.

  31. Batman Narration by CriminalNerd · · Score: 1
    It's an interesting article giving us the perspective of one of the many faceless writers who provide the many essays and papers that cheaters love to outsource to the Internet to get their high grades. It is saddening to see that there is a non-trivial amount of people who treat their post-secondary education as another mountain to cross in a taxi instead of participating in the planning and preparation of the hiking trip to enjoying the learning experience(s) that they might otherwise miss during the hike across said metaphorical mountain. It's especially saddening because the incompetent and ESL students that the author specifically mentioned are the ones who would stand to gain the most if they tried to get help through avenues other than hiring someone to write their non-technical papers for them. At my school, there tends to be a huge overlap between the two because the students still don't understand the concepts despite being tutored by competent students speaking the same languages as said problem students. Plus, for some reason, there are a lot of foreign students who decided to come to my school (which is known for its technical and math-related programs) for the English department and such. Maybe they were aiming to transfer departments after the first year or something but that rarely seems to happen and you can just see them struggling to keep up in their studies when they have no grasp of the English language at all. But I think the bigger reason that they are a big portion of the writer's customer base is because in the US (I'm assuming they're students in US schools), foreign students (non-citizens) who come to the schools do not get the benefits of financial aid and the like by law and thus, have to pay the full tuition (high school to post-secondary) and thus, they can afford to sprinkle a little money here and there to people who are willing to do their homework for them so that they can take their prestigious post-secondary degrees and use it to get jobs everywhere. Maybe not all of them can afford paper writers but here at my school, there a sub-school/department that the students refer to as the Indian Department because the only people in its programs are international students from India doing graduate-level degrees and they're all incompetent at what they do (with the occasional super-competent guy every couple of years) and they're there only because they bring the school a lot of money. How these incompetent guys manage to maintain 4.0 GPAs while failing miserably in the undergrad level courses that they take is a mystery to everyone here (they take the undergrad level courses because they had a choice between said courses or the harder graduate level courses). Now I'm thinking that there might be an overlap with the third rich kids demographic.

    P.S. Am I the only one who read every other paragraph in the article with the phrase "I am the goddamn Batman" at the end?

    I do not mean to be insensitive, but I can't tell you how many times I've been paid to write about somebody helping a loved one battle cancer. I've written essays that could be adapted into Meryl Streep movies. I am the goddamn Batman.

    On top of the ego rearing its head here and there, there is a sort of in-your-face shadowy narrator voice that you would expect to see usually in a film-noir like detective story or a grim-dark rendition of Yet Another Batman Comic.

    1. Re:Batman Narration by CriminalNerd · · Score: 1

      Of course the narration can be explained by his short background history of being an aspiring novelist who was snubbed by his supposedly loser school's English department. And then now you know why he's retiring: He's going to try and become a /novelist/.

    2. Re:Batman Narration by pnuema · · Score: 1
      It is saddening to see that there is a non-trivial amount of people who treat their post-secondary education as another mountain to cross in a taxi instead of participating in the planning and preparation of the hiking trip to enjoying the learning experience(s) that they might otherwise miss during the hike across said metaphorical mountain.

      My sister-in-law is a junior high school gym teacher - which in my state requires a masters degree. How in the FUCK can we justify making someone go to school for 6 YEARS in order to teach junior high school gym?

    3. Re:Batman Narration by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      It's an interesting article giving us the perspective of one of the many faceless writers who provide the many essays and papers that cheaters love to outsource to the Internet to get their high grades.

      It is sad to see that there are many people who treat their post-secondary education as another mountain to cross in a taxi, instead of participating in the planning and preparation of the hiking trip and enjoying the learning experience(s) that they might otherwise miss during the hike across said metaphorical mountain.

      It's especially sad because the incompetent and ESL students that the author specifically mentioned are the ones who would stand to gain the most if they tried to get help through avenues other than hiring someone to write their non-technical papers for them.

      At my school, there tends to be a huge overlap between the two. The students still don't understand the concepts despite being tutored by competent students speaking the same languages as said problem students. Plus, for some reason, there are a lot of foreign students who decided to come to my school (which is known for its technical and math-related programs) for the English department and such.

      Maybe they were aiming to transfer departments after the first year? That rarely seems to happen and you can just see them struggling to keep up in their studies when they have no grasp of the English language at all.

      But I think the bigger reason that they are a big portion of the writer's customer base is because in the US (I'm assuming they're students in US schools), foreign students (non-citizens) who come to the schools do not get the benefits of financial aid and the like by law and thus, have to pay the full tuition (high school to post-secondary) and thus they can afford to sprinkle a little money here and there to people who are willing to do their homework for them so that they can take their prestigious post-secondary degree and use it to get a job anywhere.

      Maybe not all of them can afford paper writers but here at my school there is a sub-school/department that the students refer to as the Indian Department because the only people in its programs are international students from India doing graduate-level degrees, and they're all incompetent at what they do (with the occasional super-competent guy every couple of years), and they're there only because they bring the school a lot of money.

      How these incompetent guys manage to maintain 4.0 GPAs while failing miserably in the undergrad level courses that they take is a mystery to everyone here (they take the undergrad level courses because they had a choice between those courses or the harder graduate level courses). Now I'm thinking that there might be an overlap with the third rich kids demographic.

      You need to work on your use of the passive voice.
      (You are hit by wall of text. Roll 10d4 damage, save for half.)

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    4. Re:Batman Narration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      holy block of text, batman. seriously dude, paragraphs are your friend.

  32. FTA by DavMz · · Score: 1

    FTA:

    As long as it doesn't require me to do any math [...], I will write anything

  33. Duh. by boxxa · · Score: 1

    There is cheating in college?! No way. A lot of the papers including research and also computer science classes are full of cheating. People would pay $100 a project that took you maybe 2 hours if you knew what you are doing and near$1,000 for research papers. Its become a pretty marketable business and there is a lot of sites that have always taken advantage of it. It will always win too since the work people are doing for paying "client" is submitted to the person and not posted online to get caught by plagiarism crawlers.

    --
    Bryan
  34. Delegation is the key by petes_PoV · · Score: 1
    And people delegated their work to this guy. Obviously exhibiting management potential. The REALLY interesting discovery will be whether the people who did buy their coursework, rather than doing it themselves turn out to be more or less successful than the "honest" people who did it all themselves.

    That sounds like a piece of research that's just begging to be done.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  35. Ethics! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice how he says he wrote ethics papers. :)

  36. relevant xkcd: Impostor by majid_aldo · · Score: 1
    --
    --- widget evolution: enhanced, plus, super, ultra, extreme, exxxtreme, ultra-extreme, ..etc.
  37. Missed something... by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    I've completed 12 graduate theses of 50 pages or more. All for someone else. All while taking tech support calls for Dell

    Now its believable.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Missed something... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      No that makes it less believable. Someone who works at a Dell call center and speaks English? Do they ride to work on a magical unicorn?

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  38. Consult Feynman? by mangu · · Score: 5, Funny

    In my time at school some of our teachers gave us free hand - bring what you want and see if you succeed.

    The best anecdote about this was a physics exam at CalTech where the teacher allowed students to "consult Feynman", which was the standard textbook.

    One student grabbed the exam sheet and ran to professor Feynman's office. Feynman, practical joker that he was, was glad to do the whole exam for him.

    1. Re:Consult Feynman? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did he pass? ;)

    2. Re:Consult Feynman? by Combatso · · Score: 1

      no Feynman got his post graduate studies with the help of an online custom essay writer.

    3. Re:Consult Feynman? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took a luggage-wheels stack of texts and the head of the Physics department to the exam room for one of these. He sat there with me the whole time, ready to help, but the only thing I asked him was to look up Avogadro's number. I didn't actually need the number, but used it to make one answer more amusing.

      I got an A, and he got an anecdote.

  39. Fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As much as I am sure that these things really happen this sounds like a piece of prose/fiction to me. It's well written and well structured but just sounds too much like the stereotypical "antagonist with good intentions gets disillusioned by society and thus turns bad".

    It was an entertaining read, though the exaggerations sometimes surpassed my suspense-of-believe.

  40. There smart people who are not cut out for essay by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    There smart people who are not cut out for writing essays.

    Not only that when you have filler courses like art history (A professor had this story) that in the class the student would turn in short papers saying art is great but for the final they turned in copied from on line a long paper about art theft and how it affected art prices in the year X.

  41. I used one of these services once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once paid one of these online services to write a 3 page summary of a philosophy article. I was way to busy at work to write a decent paper so I though i would outsource(if its good enough for IBM than its good enough for me) The product returned to me was garbage, and, if I handed it in, would have resulted in a c grade at best. Whoever wrote clearly didn't carefully read the article, and instead focused on a few key sentences which he/she thought were important. The writing was verbose and not in the proper style for a philosophy paper; very disappointing.

    1. Re:I used one of these services once by digitig · · Score: 1

      The product returned to me was garbage, and, if I handed it in, would have resulted in a c grade at best. Whoever wrote clearly didn't carefully read the article, and instead focused on a few key sentences which he/she thought were important. The writing was verbose and not in the proper style for a philosophy paper; very disappointing.

      But just what most users of the service would want, because it doesn't raise their head above the parapet.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  42. Did you read the article? by maweki · · Score: 1

    He kinda wrote, that he would not do math papers
    "As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything."

    Ok, he did not kind of write it. He wrote it.

  43. "All for someone else" isn't quite correct by Tomsk70 · · Score: 1

    More accurately would be "All because someone paid me to"

  44. Honor Code by mdsolar · · Score: 1

    I went to a college with a signed honor code that obligated you to turn in cheaters. I had a great deal of difficulty signing it because I was not sure I could turn in a friend. With perspective, I realize that turning in a cheater may turn their life around and future chances are better for that person. More extensive use of honor codes might help this situation.

    1. Re:Honor Code by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >I went to a college with a signed honor code that obligated you to turn in cheaters.

      That's so the school can cover its ass while it buries its head.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    2. Re:Honor Code by nblender · · Score: 1

      I cheated once, in high school. I was hacking Apple ][ when I was 10 so I developed the ability to type at 100+ WPM by the time I was 15. In high school, I made extra money by typing in papers for other students... Just typing, not creating content. One day I was running behind on a social studies paper and decided to re-use the same paper that I had typed up for a fellow student under a different teacher. In the end, my teacher ended up grading both papers and 'we' got caught. (At that point, the teacher didn't know who had plagiarized whom).. I fessed up, the other student got off free, I was threatened with suspension but it was clear by my reaction that this was not normal practice for me so the teacher gave me 2 days to do the paper again and I continued on with my life. I never cheated again during school or life, after that.

      So probably the best thing that could happen to some people, is getting caught. The ones who continue to cheat even after getting caught, well they're doomed to life as Merchant Bankers.

    3. Re:Honor Code by mdsolar · · Score: 1

      A place where an honor code works very well is in the game of Ultimate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_(sport)#Spirit_of_the_Game

      Players call fouls against themselves. I remember getting help with typing in HS though you would have hated me as a customer because I had to be there to decipher what was to be typed.

  45. Online Universities by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1
    From TFA:

    "I've attended three dozen online universities."

    I would be interested to know what percentage of his business comes from online university students and what percentage from traditional university students. I wonder if the dramatic increase in the growth of online universities has correlated to an increase in this business.

  46. This is what you get when people are pushed to be by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    This is what you get when people are pushed to be in college when they are not cut out for it.

    Also by making them get B.S, M.S and PHD just to get jobs does not help. In some jobs you don't need to write long papers and or it's not your job to do that much writing on the job.

    I don't think lot's of people are using stuff like this to cheat (as in to pass without knowing anything about the class they are in) no they just are not good at witting long papers. They can do the short lab and or homework papers but not the big papers with not having to use people who are good at essays but don’t know that much about the topic.

  47. comedy by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

    I've written for courses in history, cinema, labor relations, pharmacology, theology, sports management, maritime security, airline services, sustainability, municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, postmodern architecture, anthropology, literature, and public administration.

    .

    You gotta admit, that's pretty funny.

  48. Future managers of America by Angst+Badger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I certainly hope most of the students who use these services are going into management, where they'll never be required to use any skills.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  49. Frustrating... by jythie · · Score: 1

    The depressing/frustrating thing here is I have actually been pondering going back to school to get a higher degree, but the process of convincing them to let me in is... well... a hurdle. This piece makes me wonder how many of the other applicants have had a bit of 'help' with things like entrance essays or even just getting their previous degree.

  50. Other forms of payment by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

    I know someone who did similar work in the early/mid 1990s. He wasn't as good as the guy in the article purports to be; he seemed to mostly wind up doing glorified book reports for first-year English coeds.

    He took his payment in phone sex, earning as much as a half-dozen sessions for one fairly short paper.

    If about 15 years ago you entered a certain small, prestigious, east coast university where your first English comp paper was to be inspired by "Everything That Rises Must Converge" and you got some old guy off over the phone in exchange for the paper, then thanks for the memories and thanks for passing my email address around to your friends. :-)

    1. Re:Other forms of payment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phone sex? I'd have asked for real sex.

    2. Re:Other forms of payment by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      I don't care how hot they were, I wasn't going to drive 1500 miles for it.

    3. Re:Other forms of payment by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      I know someone who did similar work in the early/mid 1990s. He wasn't as good as the guy in the article purports to be; he seemed to mostly wind up doing glorified book reports for first-year English coeds.

      ...then thanks for the memories and thanks for passing my email address around to your friends. :-)

      Did you frequently confuse the third and first person in those papers as well?

      I know plenty of people who have done this, but it was usually for real sex. I think you got a raw deal, although that's based on my memory of STDs being relatively uncommon 15 years ago.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  51. *Yawn* by fishbowl · · Score: 1

    My problem was always with groups of people working together on tasks that were expressly required to be individual efforts.
    I have more respect for people who straight-up cheat than I do for that.

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  52. I know its too late to get this read... by orphiuchus · · Score: 1

    ...But did anyone notice how these are mostly BS degrees anyway? If you cheat your way to a degree in underwater basket weaving then, well, I guess my respect level for that degree was already in the right place. Now if this is going on for doctors and engineers then I see reason to worry.

    1. Re:I know its too late to get this read... by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      But did anyone notice how these are mostly BS degrees anyway?

      I thought they looked mostly like BA degrees. Didn't see any physics, mathematics, or computer science listed anywhere...

      (ba dum tsh)

    2. Re:I know its too late to get this read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is going to devaluate my Television-Repair-Academy Diploma sure as hell.

  53. Re:Front and Back by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Mobius Strip FTW!

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  54. obligatory xkcd Re:No engineering? by jthill · · Score: 1
    --
    As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
  55. And all soft courses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And all soft courses. I suppose it's the only way (other than politics) to make any money from ethics degrees.

  56. Essay writing in the techie world by dtmos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And since when is essay writing all that valuable in say the techie world?

    Are you kidding? It's especially valuable in the techie world -- a world that incessantly suffers from misunderstanding by the general public. Ask yourself how popular Linux would be today, if Linus had published a well-written series of introductory articles about it in the popular press, 20 years ago. Ask any small company: The technical writer is key to the success of the organization, because he/she introduces the product to the customer -- either directly, in the company documentation, or indirectly, by ghostwriting articles in the trade and popular press.

    If you don't believe me, try the following. Take a collection of your peers. Ask them each to write a four-page article for the trade press presenting and explaining Moore's Law. Now compare their papers with Gordon Moore's original. Which one is easier to understand, and more persuasive? Which one do you think would still be remembered 45 years later?

    Words matter.

    1. Re:Essay writing in the techie world by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Ask yourself how popular Linux would be today, if "

      Bitches had man pages and couldn't hang, fuckin' noobz!

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:Essay writing in the techie world by Doomdark · · Score: 1
      Ask yourself how popular Linux would be today, if Linus had published a well-written series of introductory articles about it in the popular press, 20 years ago.

      Simple answer: none more popular. Linux was not usable for most people back then, so why would they care?

      Consider this: Minix was the operating system that was well documented by such articles. How popular is it nowadays, compared to Linux?

      Btw, your point of usefulness of documentation and publishing is completely valid. I am just focused on trashing your case study here. :-)

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    3. Re:Essay writing in the techie world by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If I had a nickel for every time I suffered personally for running into a Linux manpage that says "this manpage needs to be filled in", I'd have a shitload of nickels.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Essay writing in the techie world by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Ask yourself how popular Linux would be today, if Linus had published a well-written series of introductory articles about it in the popular press, 20 years ago.

      Consider this: Minix was the operating system that was well documented by such articles. How popular is it nowadays, compared to Linux?

      Oh yes, I vividly remember the articles about Minix in Time and People. Reading comprehension fail. P.S. Please learn to use quote tag.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  57. Someone who makes his living helping others cheat by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    Someone who makes his living helping others cheat is surprised at how rampant cheating is. Is a gas station owner also surprised that most everyone that comes to his store is looking for gas?

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  58. English & Liberal arts not for the weak-minded by Aquitaine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was a liberal arts major at an Ivy League school and graduated with a BA in English. I later lived for a year or so with a fellow graduate who had taken a job for one of these paper mills for the money. I saw the kind of people who ran the place as well as the kind of people who needed work done.

    All the points about how this is easier with a humanities degree because you're not being tested in class are correct, but they're not a complete picture. Liberal arts degrees are indeed much easier to get than a science degree for the simple reason that you can't BS your way through math and physics (at least nowhere near as much as you can through the humanities). But a humanities education isn't meant to train you as a scientist or for a specific career, or a group or specific careers. It's meant to give you the intellectual tools to analyze anything. It's meant to make you intellectually agile, so that you can learn new (and possibly completely unrelated) fields very quickly. It's meant to give you a sense of what it means to be a damn human being and to give you the chops to appreciate arguments and ideas that might be contrary to your own, and to get to the bottom of why that is.

    My experience was that, if you did the work and applied yourself, you got exactly that. But the nature of the work is such that there are not as many external factors forcing you to do the kinds of things you have to do in organic chem. It used to be that this kind of intellectual laziness would mean you washed out, but these days, even at an Ivy, you have to be pretty terrible for that to happen. I've seen resumes and letters from some of my fellow graduates with English degrees -- people who, presumably, ought to be expert writers -- and they aren't. Sometimes it's just because they're lazy, and sometimes it's because they got all their credits studying ultra-specific intellectual theory, whether it's queer theory, post-modernist theory, feminist theory, or anything else that makes for interesting graduate work but shouldn't be forming the entire basis of your undergraduate curriculum. But the grad students are pretty much forced into claiming an intellectual niche and working it to death, and that is reflected in the classes they teach. All of this in the name of a 'broad' intellectual base!

    My recollection is that my friend was not writing papers for top tier schools most of the time, but it did happen. I remember that a lot of her clients were in one- or two- year master's programs (and sometimes MBAs) and almost always had the attitude that they just couldn't be bothered to do it themselves. Even if it started out as a single occasion where some kid just couldn't finish one paper on time, it became like a gateway drug.

    And the people who ran the paper mill were absolute scumbags. This one was in NYC. They would withhold payment from their writers, promise things like health insurance and not deliver, and otherwise screw the people doing the work as much as possible so that their margins would be as high as possible. But they always had work.

  59. A kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had professors who simply gave every student the chance to bring a note sheet to the exam.

    One 8-12x11" sheet of paper. Both sides. Put whatever you want on it. The kids who printed it up with every possible item in 3-point font failed, those who put down the relevant concepts and formulae in a quick and easy-access format succeeded, because the test was actually structured to test whether you had learned the concepts and how to apply them.

    Of course, this requires that the professor isn't a lazy asshole who's been using the same, unchanged scantron-based multiple guess test for the past 20 years.

    I'm one of the kids who printed it up with every possible item in 3-point font. I aced that exam hard. Suck it :D

    1. Re:A kid by xSauronx · · Score: 1

      I didnt go that far, but inevitably (in another post here I mentioned Im bad at math due to lack of practice) Id have a topic or two where I would almost always mix up something. Id have basic formulas and rules on the sheet, and maybe 2 or 3 example problems for material that I always screwed up.

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
  60. Doing Something New Is the Test by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    The real test of a student isn't just their reporting on what's already known. The real test is their doing something new.

    A better higher education paradigm would be spending a minority of time researching and reporting what's already known in a subject, for which no points are awarded. Then splitting the majority of the time between using that knowledge to produce something new, no matter how trivial - though requiring the base knowledge from purely historical knowledge - and the final task: educating others (teachers or classmates) in the new knowledge.

    It's a lot harder to "just copy" the new knowledge, and even harder to fake teaching it to others. Such a system does require the teachers to know what's "new" and what's already known, but that kind of survey should be the work of the school itself, since it requires lots of low-skill "search the literature" work.

    But this system would do a lot more than verify that students are educated. It would produce a lot more knowledge, and in the way that it's actually produced in "the real world".

    Networks have revolutionized knowledge. They are therefore radically changing education. The momentum could be harnessed to power increased quality, rather than cheating.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Doing Something New Is the Test by Peeteriz · · Score: 1

      It is non-trivial to produce something new and adequate, given how narrow&deep research areas are nowadays.
      In higher education it's typically considered that you would need a basic degree to reasonably understand the concepts that are discussed in some paper, and a masters degree + specialization in a sub-area to even understand if some idea that you have is new, done previously or rejected long ago. Developing and validating new concepts is generally the learning style of doctorate studies and post-doc research.

      Heck, try doing something new in Optics 101 - if you can, then it's at least a patent-worthy concept, if not an ambition for a Nobel prize. Try doing something new in area such as interpretation of Shakespeare's plays, where every imaginable nuance has been covered probably a dozen times.

      There is no way that even a third of third-year students in say, compsci or physics would be able to generate new knowledge. 90% of students wouldn't even understand the concepts and components in which to learn about the 'new thing' if it was repeatedly taught to them, let alone develop it themselves and explain it to others. You have to learn to stand up before you can run a marathon, and it generally takes a few years = a college degree to learn the basics of some area. In medicine, it takes years to just get a reasonable understanding of what exactly you are talking about when you mention body part X - and of course, you learn it and prove that you've learned it

      In summary - your idea is not new, it has been done and is done, but not for the masses - that was how people got their degrees in middle ages (when PhD was pretty much the only degree that was given), and that's how people get their narrowly specialised advanced degrees nowadays. With very few exceptions, even the most advanced people would NOT be able to do a new thing for every first year course that they had; if a comp-sci PhD student is doing his thesis on new algorithms for quantum computing, my money is that he wouldn't really be able to create any new knowledge (without investing a few years into it) in, say, OS concepts or digital signal processing, which he had studied earlier but which are different subspecializations. Just as you wouldn't expect most heart surgeons to be able create any new knowledge at all in biochemistry.

  61. Did he write TFA? by BigSes · · Score: 1

    I can't get over the fact that this "professional" writer insists on starting many of his sentences with And and But in TFA. I certainly wouldn't want him writing for me, much less pay him to do so.

    1. Re:Did he write TFA? by TDyl · · Score: 1

      And this is a problem? But on the other hand, maybe not. And did you make little quotation marks in the air when you thought about the word 'professional'?

      --
      Todd: I hope it proves as delicious as the farmers that grew them
    2. Re:Did he write TFA? by Musicologynut · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the difference between spoken and written English.

  62. May I See Your Resume? by dixon1e · · Score: 1

    You are one well rounded fellow. I wonder what your resume would look like applying for another position. Better, I wonder what the reaction of any recruiter would be upon seeing it.

  63. What if it's Massechuttsetts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just don't think it's right for women to take animals as their husbands...

    But what about guys in places that allow men to have husbands? Is that okay?

  64. Good luck with that in some classes by davidwr · · Score: 1

    That may be fine if the topics are broad but if they are narrow it doesn't make much sense.

    If I'm taking freshman Calculus and some of the problems are identical to the problems from the last month of my high-school Calculus class, well, the answers will be the same too.

    On the other hand if college Freshman English class paper is "write about the influence of Mark Twain's peers on the book Huckleberry Finn" and you did a similar paper in high school, you shouldn't be allowed to "just turn it in." You should, however, be allowed to reference it as part of a new paper that incorporates new things you've learned in your current class or, if you didn't learn anything new, you should be encouraged to ask for a substitute assignment.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  65. Re:The source of the problem...Paper by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that's why this guy prefers his work be rewarded with MONEY, not credentials. Ironically, neither printing is necessarily worth more than the paper.

  66. Spence on shadow conformance by epine · · Score: 1

    I listened to Spence on Growth the other night. He's the guy who came up with Signalling (economics) and won a Nobel prize for it, and then went off to do whacks of other high level stuff.

    The premise of signalling theory is that the competence you gain from your education can be entirely ignored and the educational system would still have an economic function.

    As for ethics, he's quite right his ethics are no worse than many of our leaders of the future. I have no doubt he does acceptable quality work. You can see that from the article. Students are pretty harried, so a lot of what even the good students produce is no great shakes. And he's a professional, with years of experience and crib sheets to draw upon.

    My favorite part was that he "never edits" and gets thanked for the authentic mistakes. Just like slashdot, fire and forget.

    The key assumption from Spence is that it costs less (by some metric) for a good student to earn the credential than the bad student. It's pretty clear at $2000 for a term paper, the bad student is taking it on the chin.

    It's a basic problem in economics to determine who has the goods and who doesn't, without spending more on the discrimination than the discrimination is worth. University is the assembly line solution to this problem.

    Shadow conformance is as inevitable as prostitution when society commoditizes human capital to the extent that global trade implies.

    More of the problem explained here: Ken Robinson: Changing Education Paradigms

    (Had dim recall of the particulars of that link. Search google on "the world is thinking" to recover FORA.tv, hadn't the first clue about the guy's name so I searched FORA for the keyword "sir", and it came up first hit. That's funny. I could have found him the long way through TED.

    WARNING: FORA practices bait and switch: you think you're watching the whole video, but clips are cut off abruptly as unpaid previews. The clip by the good Malcolm Gladwell on taxation would have been interesting to watch to conclusion. It's like his brain is loaned out from the Men in Black brain archive, and gets recalled from time to time, and to kill time without it, he writes another book.)

  67. There, fixed tha.... oh never mind! by SGDarkKnight · · Score: 1

    I started to do a series of "There, fixed that for you" replies based on the comments made. However, there were far too many spelling and gramatical errors for me to continue.

    --

    ...A no smoking section in a restaurant is like having a no peeing section in a swimming pool...
  68. Re:English & Liberal arts not for the weak-min by Skrubly · · Score: 1

    I've seen resumes and letters from some of my fellow graduates with English degrees -- people who, presumably, ought to be expert writers -- and they aren't.

    Another article from a few years ago by a paper-mill writer pointed out an aspect of this I hadn't thought of before: people generally don't write good essays because they don't read essays on a regular basis. Most text that is read during the course of getting a degree isn't presented in 'essay' format. For an English degree you read a lot of novels but very few boring analytical essays. However, you're expected to write boring essays on a weekly basis.

    Halfway through getting my English degree I realized that it wasn't a degree in 'writing' as I had assumed before - it's more of a degree in reading, because I did a hell of a lot more reading than writing. Close reading, analytical reading, boring reading, obscure reading, incomprehensible reading; a lot of goddamned reading. Writing was a necessary portion but not really the focus overall. At my school the difference between the general English degree I completed and a Creative Writing degree was two classes.

    One thing that always baffled me working in the corporate world was the amount of customer-facing marketing and website material that was never proofread. That's how a company ends up with a full-page advertisement in the local paper proclaiming that they are The #1 Internet Proivder!

    Overall, TFA makes me sad. I've written for money before but not for other people's schoolwork, and I don't know how I'd feel if I was offered a grand to crank out a thesis. It sounds like a tough way to make an easy living.

  69. Re:The source of the problem...Paper by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

    "This guy" is doing a job of writing papers.

    I'm speaking of his customers, who value their degrees far more than the irrelevant courses they have to take to get a degree.

    Such as an Art History major being required to take Calculus.

  70. Re:English & Liberal arts not for the weak-min by Aquitaine · · Score: 1

    Another article from a few years ago by a paper-mill writer pointed out an aspect of this I hadn't thought of before: people generally don't write good essays because they don't read essays on a regular basis.

    That's because you are supposed to learn to write in grade school, aka 'grammar school,' and not in college. The school I went to recognized that most incoming freshmen don't know how to write and so required all students in all majors to take two semesters worth of writing seminars (100-level English courses). That's two semesters you probably should've spent learning actual material instead of re-treading over what your K-12 education failed to teach you.

  71. lolstudents by Thouv · · Score: 1

    i can has thezis?

  72. "But I have not yet gone to college" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't this bring back memories?

  73. Re:English & Liberal arts not for the weak-min by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberal arts degrees are indeed much easier to get than a science degree for the simple reason that you can't BS your way through math and physics (at least nowhere near as much as you can through the humanities). But a humanities education isn't meant to train you as a scientist or for a specific career, or a group or specific careers. It's meant to give you the intellectual tools to analyze anything. It's meant to make you intellectually agile, so that you can learn new (and possibly completely unrelated) fields very quickly.

    "Anything" except math or science, apparently. I see this claim a lot from holders of degrees in the liberal arts, both ordinary and from full professors, but I find it difficult to take seriously. Do they genuinely believe that scientific and technical fields require any less mental agility and analytic abilites?

  74. Hey, his career gives people like me a career by sandytaru · · Score: 1

    On the one hand, it rather angers me that people out there are able to buy their way through undergrad (and grad school too) by buying papers. I wrote every single paper I turned in, and even if I had wanted to cheat, could not have afforded it.

    On the other hand, I now work as an IT technical writer, and I'm surrounded by very smart people who are not very adept at writing things down. Since it's an area I excel at (from writing all my own papers and doing technical documentation for all the companies I've worked at even when it's not in my official job description), their lack of writing talent has ensured that I have a long, happy career ahead of me as a technical writer.

    So march on, paper mills! Churn out more terrible writers from college so that I may continue to have easy work available!

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  75. So a funny somewhat related story by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    My undergrad general chemistry class was somewhat like this. You could bring in notes, but only 3 index cards and it had to be hand written. Really it didn't matter that much since you largely didn't need notes for the test. Not sure why the limit, probably just to try and keep kids from bringing in entire copies of the textbook and wasting time going through it.

    So we are getting ready for the first test and I see a girl in the row ahead of me get out a note card with the periodic table of the elements on it. Not a photocopy, hand drawn. Looked pretty detailed too, atomic number, symbol, weight, etc. Probably took her a long time to do all that.

    Now I'll admit, a periodic table would be really useful on a chemistry test... Which is why the classroom featured two massive ones at the front. Each side had about a 20 foot display, that was clearly readable from the back, with all the information on it. These were permanent wall fixtures in that room, they were not brought in and out. They'd been there for years.

    Somehow she had apparently missed that in class. Way to effectively spend your study time there :P.

  76. Everyone is missing the important part... by SETIGuy · · Score: 1
    The important and insightful part is who his clientelle is because it tells a lot about what's wrong with our schools and our society.

    From my experience, three demographic groups seek out my services: the English-as-second-language student; the hopelessly deficient student; and the lazy rich kid.

    For the last, colleges are a perfect launching ground—they are built to reward the rich and to forgive them their laziness. Let's be honest: The successful among us are not always the best and the brightest, and certainly not the most ethical. My favorite customers are those with an unlimited supply of money and no shortage of instructions on how they would like to see their work executed. While the deficient student will generally not know how to ask for what he wants until he doesn't get it, the lazy rich student will know exactly what he wants. He is poised for a life of paying others and telling them what to do. Indeed, he is acquiring all the skills he needs to stay on top.

  77. Best math class I ever had by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Was somewhat similar. First all the problems had sensible answers because the teacher didn't randomly make up polynomials or such, he started with the answers and constructed the polynomial form that. So the rules for the test were you could use anything you liked, notes, book, calculator, even go and ask him questions. He wouldn't give you the answer but would clear up misconceptions. When you answered a question, you chose how to do it. If you wanted, you would write the answer and circle it, nothing else. If you did that and the answer was correct, full credit. If you were incorrect, no credit.

    You had the option of showing your work. If you showed your work, he'd trace through it and show you where you went wrong. The more of it you got right, the more points you'd get up to missing only a single point on the problem if all the work was right, save for some small error (like an arithmetic error or sign error or something). Also if you did something particularly clever in the solution, something he didn't think of, you could get extra credit. I remember noticing that two parts of an equation were the same thing despite begin stated differently and just canceled them, he hadn't noticed that and got some extra points.

    That was an extremely effective class. I enjoyed it and learned a lot. That I did learn was confirmed when I went to university and absolutely aced the precalc test. His testing style was extremely effective at teaching, and didn't rely on stupid things like "You can't have notes or look at the book." It was about problem solving, not memorization.

    1. Re:Best math class I ever had by pablodiazgutierrez · · Score: 1

      That's how all math exams are taken in Spain. I was surprised to find so many Scantron type of tests when I first came to the US.

  78. Re:English & Liberal arts not for the weak-min by Aquitaine · · Score: 1

    Do they genuinely believe that scientific and technical fields require any less mental agility and analytic abilites?

    It isn't a question of less or more, but simply different skills -- though there is definitely crossover (and probably more than either side would like to admit).

    My first job was as a programmer and now I run a web design business where I still spend about 80% of my time writing code. Of course, I also took several semesters of CS in college, but then part of 'liberal arts' is that you're supposed to still have some science training as well ... something else that gets left out a lot, or else people take a survey course in geology and that somehow does it.

    Following logic in written arguments or rhetoric is a different skill from following code or the logic behind a proof -- but if you're good at one, you probably have the capacity to be good at the other, if not necessarily the training.

    My take on what liberal arts is supposed to be is that you should know a little bit about everything, at least such that you can hold an intelligent conversation with someone in any field and have a fundamental (if not very complex) grasp of what they do. To some people, this makes you a dilettante, but frankly I've found it pretty useful over the years -- and I've run a business, been a professional actor, written tons of code, written for the Onion, written marriage ceremonies, learned to fly an airplane, and been an amateur game designer. I've probably never been in the top ten percent of any one of those things, but I'm fine with that.

  79. Fake article, fake person? by agrajag9 · · Score: 1

    Why does this entire article smell of fakery to bolster ad revenue? I know people like this exist and while in school I had people offer me their services in this department on several occasions. But this whole article smells fishy. The numbers barely make sense and he seems way too altruistic. I also had a professor in college who claimed to have taken a writing class and there were people like this guy in there and apparently they all wrote garbage papers. Anybody else smell fakery in this article or am I just spitting conspiracy theories?

  80. Irony of the pseudonym ``Ed Dantes'' by WillAdams · · Score: 1

    Somewhere a statue of Alexandre Dumas shed a tear that the name of his character who embodies revenge as an instrument of social justice and is a paragon of integrity is being used as the pseudonym for this person who helps people fake their way through life at the expense of others.

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  81. Not Just Students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My uncle claimed last year to be on the cusp of starting a career in this type of work. I got the impression from him that only about half of the work was from cheating students; the rest being from Middle Management types looking for a more in depth synopsis then an abstract could provide... "Insert obvious comment here"

  82. a prolofic blogger can average 5000 words a day by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Or a journalist. Like the this shadow-writer. Especially if they are widely read. With web you can generate a fair number of believable references on any subject. Then stuff it with quality prose.

  83. how do you avoid self-plagiarism? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    At this prodigious rate of 5,000 pages a year? I might re-visit a topic in my blogs or an online discussion group and possibly regurgitate sentences I wrote weeks before without knowing. I only have a limited degree of creativity.

  84. I paid for this comment by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 1

    I gave a co-worker a can of Mountin Dew to write this comment for me.

    1. Re:I paid for this comment by ctid · · Score: 1

      You should have found one who could spell.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  85. In one situation it is called cheating, in another by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it is called outsourcing.

  86. Blackmail retirement fund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's an idea.

    Keep a database with all the e-mails sent and received between yourself and your clients, and continue to do your work for 5-10 years. Then consult your database, going back a decade, and look-up your previous clients. Whoever has become successful in life, or at least remained wealthy, earns an offer of "pay me more, or this goes public".

    BOOM, retirement fund.

    And, just like that, your grey market job is elevated above the majority of American occupations.

    After all, if the current economic climate demonstrates anything it is that doing well via ethically questionable means IS the American Dream.

  87. I dont get it. by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    I get how a person can write paper for high school kids or some of the easier beginning stuff for university, but he mentions a lot of things that would of been a lot harder.

    So is this guys a super genius or are university papers actually very easy to write?

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  88. dear college by blackoutdustin · · Score: 1

    does anyone care if students cheat on some paper? can't students already buy their way into higher tier colleges? writing a paper isn't proof of real knowledge anyway, but if some humanities professor thinks his material is relevant let him test on it. fucking waste of time most of these courses. here's a thought, let a student study what they want and achieve real success without piling on extra "well rounded student" courses. the fuck does some kid with asperger's care about art history? (unless of course, he REALLY cares about art history, but then he'd be an art history major) sincerely, some college kid with asperger's who doesn't give a fuck about art history.

  89. Hang 'em all by BlindBear · · Score: 1

    I feel for the ESL students, good luck and keep plugging away, the other trash bags should just be hung and the corpses left in the town square. These people are criminals! Hang 'em all!

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    I prefer Classic Slashdot.
  90. Re:English & Liberal arts not for the weak-min by dbIII · · Score: 1

    It's meant to make you intellectually agile, so that you can learn new (and possibly completely unrelated) fields very quickly

    That's the entire point of going to University no matter what degree you take. Of course some people treat it like a trade school but it's not supposed to be that.

  91. Re:English & Liberal arts not for the weak-min by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    So you are telling me that when you go to work for a company built around cheating, you are liable to get cheated by your employers? Imagine my shock!