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Assange Could Face Execution Or Guantanamo Bay
An anonymous reader writes "WikiLeaker-in-chief Julian Assange faces the real danger of being executed or languishing in the US prison camp at Guantánamo Bay if, as a result of his extradition to Sweden, he ends up in the hands of the Americans, his lawyers argue. In a skeleton summary of Assange's defence, posted online, Assange's lawyers argue that it is likely that the US would seek his extradition 'and/or illegal rendition' from Sweden. In the United States 'there will be a real risk of him being detained at Guantánamo Bay or elsewhere,' his lawyers write."
Of course his attorneys are doing whatever they can to prevent him shipping out. Is this news?
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
Maybe I'm missing something, but last I knew "We don't like him" wasn't a valid reason for shipping to Gitmo or executions (not that there always is a valid reason, but still...). Assange isn't a US citizen, so that throws treason out the window, so what's the justification?
Yup, it's 2011. So why does feel so much like 1984?
I'm not saying it's good that America does these things. I have a tremendous sense of schadenfreude about the American government feeling some pain for its indefinite detention and torturing. As an American, I'm disgusted that my government has betrayed our ideals, but I also know that as one person I'm very unlikely to effect change. Maybe Assange can take our government to task more effecitively than any normal American citizen could.
They are just using that as an excuse to not let him get extradited. As so many people have pointed out here before, publishing classified information is not a crime in the US. The person that leaked it to the entity publishing the information is the one that broke the law. Just because on Fox News they maintain the narrative that he should be eliminated doesn't mean it is going to happen. This is just FUD.
Granted his lawyers are just doing what lawyers do, they are trying to find some way to win. But I hope it doesn't work.
With the way Sweden made their rape laws, he is lucky that they don't have a death penalty for men saying hello to women first.
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I hope if that man ends up on American soil that the citizens of this country (US) riot and raise fucking hell. What our government plans to do is wrong, it's illegal, and they know it. So does every citizen and every member of the press.
Where genius and insanity become confused true wisdom is found
In related news, the Guardian has in-depth coverage of his extradition hearing, including a list of legal arguments he's making and how the death threats he's received from US politicians are particularly worrying in light of the shooting in Arizona. Also, the right-wing blogger behind JulianAssangeMustDie.com has been exposed. The domain was registered by Melissa Clouthier.
That's pretty funny. If the US wanted him "renditioned", they would have had him already from the UK. He's much more likely to be safe from US rendition in Sweden.
However, in Sweden, he will have to get up on the stand and answer for his sexual behavior, and that's what he's really worried about.
It's not entirely clear from what I've read that he's an actual rapist, but it sure sounds like he's a real jerk.
Yeah, because it is impossible that the US would keep someone locked up at gitmo for years without any chance of ever getting a proper trial or even hearing what the hell you are accused of.
That would never happen.
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While I believe that Wikileaks is likely some form of an intel operation/possible manipulation in and of itself to some degree, I still support the concept behind Wikileaks.
Unfortunately I think that this statement by his lawyers may be correct. It's sad, but America is no longer the beacon of hope and freedom for the world that it once was - it's a bloated, corrupted, fading superpower. In a way we're the world's largest banana republic. It makes me very sad, because I love my country - but loving your country doesn't mean shying away from criticizing the government or exposing it's misdeeds - in fact, it means the opposite. This nation was supposedly founded on dissent and the rights of man, and to hear those in power try spin the law (including the Constitution) to suit their twisted needs is sickening.
The fact that this argument cannot be dismissed as ridiculous, hyperbolic poppycock is testament to how far the United States has fallen in the world's estimation.
"I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
his stunts cause real harm to people the world over
Really? Last I heard there wasn't a single person they could prove was harmed by the wikileaks releases.
Of course the US is seeking to extradite him, to put him on trial for spying and other damages
None of which they can prove, and releasing the documents isn't illegal under US law. So what reason do they have to extradite him? Not saying it won't happen, just that it's ridiculous.
Assange is being accused of "sex by surprise", which is a Swedish law that states that you need explicit permission to engage in consensual relations each time it happens, no matter what happens before or after. In his case, the woman he "attacked" made him breakfast after her "rape", and they continued their relationship for weeks, until she met a different woman who had also slept with him (after acting like a virtual stalker towards him).
It was only after they compared notes, that they approached Assange and asked him to get a STD test. He refused, and they spoke to the police.
Initially prosecutors declined to take this case, but then the whole Wikileaks scandal broke, and a different prosecutor (from a different area of the country) was assigned to the case, and tried to peruse it.
Assange repeatedly tried to speak to this prosecutor, but she apparently did not want to speak to him. Eventually, he was told he was free to leave the country, which he did.
Now we learn that at least one of the women supposedly who accused him of this is not cooperating with the prosecutors.
I'm not sure what to call any of this, and I'm completely torn about whether Wikileaks is good or bad, but this sure as hell isn't any normal kind of rape accusation to me. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
I assume you are not aware of that the previous Swedish government was caught in a shit storm due to an extraordinary rendition of two Egyptians? They where only saved by the boxing day tsunami striking causing a shit in media focus.
So, that the current government should extradite Assange to somewhere where he would face being locked up without a trial is hyperbole, nothing else. The execution argument is so even more stupid as Sweden does not extradite anyone if they face the death penalty.
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Yep. I'm hope people in the US get the message that the rest of the world no longer thinks of us a country of laws.
This is pretty thin. It's not clear that Assange could be vulnerable to criminal charges of say, treason, in the US since he is not a citizen of, nor loyal to, the US. WikiLeaks does not have servers in the US. Moreover the 'figures' that the lawyers cites as saying Assange should be executed have no actual authority in the US. They cite Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, neither of whom hold political office and (I'm guessing - and hoping) will not have any official political power in the near future.
This is Assange's own lawyers trying to prevent extradition to Sweden, which has actually filed criminal charges against him. I'm all for what Assange does, but this is exceedingly unlikely to come to pass.
How is it that people fail to realize that if the US truly wanted him that they would have him? I almost wonder if the Government isn't using him as a diversion from something else.
Why don't we start with his own admission of people getting killed in Kenya because of his actions?
Personally, I thought "shit" was better.
Counter-intuitively, what turned out to be kind of a shitcase for Assage personally, is also a good thing for Wikileaks, as it simply draws more popular attention to their releases. Actually, I would not call Assange stupid even if he keeps blowing on this flame, as it would be quite selfless. Remember: just like any news is bad news in a fire department, any news is good news in a newspaper.
Not just in the world's estimation, but also in its own citizens' estimation.
Look, I We're not to the point of ruthless dictatorship yet.
Are you aware of the "constitutional free zone" in your country?
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Sounds like the rantings of a paranoid schizophrenic. Reminds me of the SNL skits where Assange reminds people that no matter how he dies, even if it's decades from now and peacefully in his sleep, "it was murder!".
Transparency isn't the issue, the issue s an attack on diplomacy itself. When nations don't feel like they can talk they are more likely to resolve their conflicts through non-diplomatic means. I don't think that's in anybodies best interest.
I'm a bit confused.
Are you saying we shouldn't be worried about Sweden getting mixed up in "extraordinary rendition" (ie kidnapping) because they were caught doing it?
Personally I take the opposite lesson...they've demonstrated they will do it. They may have learned their lesson... or perhaps the only lesson learned was to try harder so as not to get caught next time.
Your argument is that because Sweden has illegally rendered people before that they will not do so again?
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Assange is being accused of "sex by surprise" [...]
No he's not. This "sex by surprise" stuff is some shit his lawyers made up. Do your fucking research before running off your mouth.
Are you adequate?
More here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden
No offense to those who died. The people rising up violently as a result to finding out about massive corruption in their own government, in my opinion, cannot be the fault of the group who revealed the corruption.
If massive amounts of corruption that we know exist were finally brought to light in the US and the result was an armed uprising of citizens opposed to that corruption, I could not possibly blame who revealed the corruption as the cause of the violence.
As a famous saying, don't blame the messenger. This is not a situation of supposedly revealed anonymous sources and putting secret operations in jeopardy or anything of the sort. This is a case of people revolting to massive corruption.
I do not condone the violence, I mourn for those who died. However, even though the violence was a result of the release, I believe it is very important that people know of corruption in their government. If Assange had leaked some document showing corruption being perpetrated by Obama, or proving that he wasn't born in Hawaii and the result was a violent protest or uprising. I believe that Tea Party members would be calling Assange a hero for revealing the information and not blame him for the violence. Food for thought.
> If his *own* government wants to give him up and ship him here that really sounds like an issue for him, his countrymen, and *his* government.
His own government is the Australian government, not Sweden or the UK. And Australia is in no position to hand him over to anyone right now.
So being a jerk is illegal now?
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A butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil.
Wikileaks releases a document showing government corruption. Later, elections are called, and during the campaigns corruption is a major issue. Violence sweeps the country (as it seems to do in every corrupt country during elections), 1300 are killed, and 350,000 are displaced.
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
I'm not sure what to call any of this, and I'm completely torn about whether Wikileaks is good or bad, but this sure as hell isn't any normal kind of rape accusation to me. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
One of the oldest tricks in the spy books, is using sex-traps, also called honey pots. The famous East German spy chief, Markus Wolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_wolf , the "Man without a face" developed this into an art. He sent agents to act as Casanovas for lonely political secretaries, and the other way around.
When I first heard of the Assange allegations, I thought, "Yeah, computer geek walks into a bar, an pulls twice in four days."
Does not compute. Someone set him up with those chicks.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
If memory serves me right, both the UK and Sweden are members of the Council of Europe, as well as signatories of the European Agreement on Human Rights. Now, the agreement expressly forbids extradition if there's a chance of capital punishment in the recipient country. Which means that Assange cannot be legally turned over to US custody, since Gitmo violates the human rights treaties massively, and execution ... well, we all know the deal.
So the only recourse left for the US is kidnapping by CIA, but that's going to get them in a sticky situation too, even if it won't submit to the International Court of Justice's authority.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Not that it has ever happened before, but since anything negative said about the USA is automatically believed and embraced I think we can all agree his best defense is that if he is sent to the USA he will likely be dipped in peanut butter, and dropped in a pen full of grizzly bears. Cuz, we do that sorta thing. ;-)
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
We need to face facts. The state of our society is degrading rapidly. Those who seek to purvey a state of terror across the face of the world respect no boundaries or laws, and I'm certainly not talking about any "ragheads" or "Hajii's" pardon the overabused racist terminology. The stories and events surrounding this societological paradigm shifting point in history have done very little to point out new ideas or suspicions. These ideas and suspicions have merely bubbled to the surface, gotten out of the basement full of humming computers and empty Doritos bags, and onto the street where more humdrum workaday people can actually see them and think about them.
Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
Actually Mr. Assange's issue is that he stayed in Sweden for weeks offering to talk about the allegations but no-one would. When he left the country they wanted to talk to him. He has offered to answer questions by phone or teleconference. He has not been charged with anything. Think about the scenario where the police ask a few questions, wait till he leaves the country and demand he return for a few more questions; rinse and repeat. His point is that he does not have to return to Sweden every time the Swedish police have a question.
Interesting the sensationalist site you link to chopped out half the quotes from the Guardian. For those who missed it, the point was that due to corruption in Kenya, 40,000 kids a year die from malaria because foreign aid that's ear-tagged to be spent on vaccination is instead consumed by the government.
Pointing out this fact resulted in riots which killed 1,300 people, as the citizens tried to put in place a government which wouldn't be so corrupt. If the end result is a net benefit of 38,700 lives - it's a positive.
The point the article, and Julian, was trying to make is that it's always a difficult moral choice - deciding whether or not to release information that you know can cause widespread upset if you also know that it's information that is being kept from those very people to their detriment.
"The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
If you strike Assange Down he will become more powerful than you can imagine!
That's pretty funny. If the US wanted him "renditioned", they would have had him already from the UK. He's much more likely to be safe from US rendition in Sweden.
Really?
From cable 07STOCKHOLM506:
"Swedish military and civilian intelligence organizations are strong and reliable partners on a range of
key issues[...]. Due to domestic political considerations, the extent of this cooperation in not widely known within the Swedish government and it would be useful to acknowledge this cooperation privately, as
public mention of the cooperation would open up the government to domestic criticism."
IANAL, However it seems that a good portion of Title 18 Chapter 37 ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP pertain to him.
# 793. Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information (Gathering, yes. Transmitting, maybe)
# 794. Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government (maybe)
# 795. Photographing and sketching defense installations (maybe)
# 796. Use of aircraft for photographing defense installations (probably not)
# 797. Publication and sale of photographs of defense installations (maybe)
# 798. Disclosure of classified information (Yes. "or publishing")
For more info, try here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_37.html
Remember, they don't have to be content with what was just leaked recently. The DoJ can go back in time and drag out everything that they can prove was _EVER_ leaked on his site and use it to convict him of ESPIONAGE. If he's extradited, he's screwed.
> This is so much hyperbole it is not even funny.
Right, because we've never executed people for this sort of thing before. And, even though we'd put innocent US citizens in Gitmo, there's no way we'd do that to someone who isn't even a US national, neatly sidestepping all that "fair trial" nonsense by labeling him as some kind of "enemy combatant" or whatever.
And, even though we have politicians calling for Julian Assange to be assassinated, there's no way that anyone would ever even think of taking them seriously. Ever.
That's total hyperbole, right? Nobody here is that crazy... right?
So if you had hard evidence that, for instance, the government did 9/11 (And I don't believe it did at all, just using this as an example), and I mean hard evidence as in tape recordings of the President giving the "go ahead" for the operation - you'd sit on it and say that you have no right to release private information?
The way democracy works, any efforts by a ruling party to prevent fair, honest elections - ie, election fraud - is the most important kind of public information.
I don't really like Assange as a person either, but I wholly support the cause. If the governments "win" and manage to shut down WikiLeaks and silence Assange, what does that say about the free world? The problem with corruption is that almost nobody tries to stand up to it - it's why corruption persists. People are weak and easily bought out by money, or killed. Here's a person and an organisation who are saying "We will not be deterred, or bribed, or bullied - and wherever we get information that governments are lying or trying to hide information from its citizens that harms those citizens - we'll make that information public" and you're siding with the corrupt?
Do you realise how very rare and important it is for people to stand up to corruption? WikiLeaks may not always get it right - they're fallable just like the rest of us - and might release information they shouldn't. But by far they're the lesser of two evils - if you consider their goals an evil at all.
Don't like Assange? Fine. Don't like particular leaks? Fine. Think WikiLeaks is a bad thing for the world? Wrong - bringing corruption to light is one of the most responsible and important things an organisation can do. Especially when it makes them the enemy of every government in the "free world" because it threatens their own corrupt practices.
"The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
Actually, many Gitmo detainees were shown to be people "sold" to American intelligence as a means of getting rid of them. There have been cases where a neighbor "volunteered information" about someone they didn't like to have them taken away and, of course, it worked quite well.
I would point out that you are merely quoting the "she said" portion of "he said, she said". There is no more proof that is what actually occurred than what he said. It is just as much "bullshit" as the claim of "sex by surprise".
Remember, you can't look dignified when your having fun! Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive
There are no current formal charges against Assange in Sweden, he is being extradited only for questioning, not to face any current charges. There were charges but they were dropped before he left Sweden.
I would point out that you are merely quoting the "she said" portion of "he said, she said". There is no more proof that is what actually occurred than what he said
Correct. I originally used the word allegations but it seems to have been lost in editing. He has not been charged with anything, but I quoted some of the allegations.
It is just as much "bullshit" as the claim of "sex by surprise".
This is not true. It is a fact that he was accused of what I described. It is also a fact that he was not accused of "sex by surprise", as no such crime exists. Thus in relation to "the accusations against him," one statement is bullshit and the other is not. Whether the allegations hold up doesn't change what he was accused of.
It's not about "jurisdiction" when we're talking about rendition or assassination.
It's about being a target of the United States and not having an army to defend you.
You have a problem with the idea that Assange is a potential target for assassination or rendition and imprisonment without trial, or without even being charged with a crime? You and what army are going to do exactly what about it?
That's where we are now. Who cares about jurisdiction?
"...since anything negative said about the USA is automatically believed and embraced..."
Perhaps your government (amongst others) should start a process of thinking long and hard about why this might be.
The United States is very willing to "arrange" for people to end up in their jurisdiction when necessary.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Now, Assange's attorneys have correctly argued against his extradition to Sweden, on a number of grounds, one of the most correct and crucial being that a local city (Goteborg, or Gothenburg in English) prosecutor (Marianne Ny) cannot petition for an Interpol arrest warrant -- nor extradition order -- it must originate at the highest government level.
Now you ask, but why would the Swedes want to extradite Assange of Wikileaks to Gothenburg? Because that's where Jeppesen Systems AB, the company affiliated with Boeing subsidiary Jeppesen Dataplan, better known as Boeing's "Extreme Rendition Airlines" is located.
Beginning to get the Big Picture, now? Never have so many resources been focused to obtain one individual in the past few decades. And yes, I strongly suspect they've spent far more on tracking and ops in shutting down by Wikileaks (tasked at least three gov't supercomputers to DDoS those Wikileaking sites) and their Wikileaks Task Force at the CIA (WTF). Now why didn't they put as much effort into that fellow, what's his name?
Oh yeah....Osama bin Laden?
Perhaps you might also consider that the reason might not be what you think it is rather than assuming its cause. The US is a convenient scape goat because it's own people are so critical of it's government but there are plenty of nations that like to feed a mythology that diverts attention from their own bad behavior. The US is far far away from being the worst offender in international politics. After all the Russians dumped polonium in a dissidents dinner in a foreign country and the Mossad strangled a guy in his own hotel room, even with the illegal renditions and using predator drones in extra judicial killings I personally don't consider that in the same league.
The fact that this argument cannot be dismissed as ridiculous, hyperbolic poppycock is testament to how far the United States has fallen in the world's estimation.
The mention of Guantanamo should be a good hint why we don't think it's ridiculous, hyperbolic, or poppycock.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
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Yes and after being caught beating some kid to a bloody pulp for no reason can I claim I'm still a good person because I'm far far away from being the worst offender in the country what with some guy who fed bleech to his victims before raping them to death.
Being able to point to groups that are worse doesn't make your own any better.
The US is supposed to be a civilized western nation,
When it tortures people: That there exist countries which torture people more does not make it any better.
When it interns people without trial: the fact there exist countries which intern people more and for longer doesn't make it ok .
When it abducts innocent people from around the world for the aforementioned internment and torture it doesn't make it ok just because some other nations have done the same in the past.
Like it or not the US has got a reputation for torturing people not because of some smoke and mirrors show but simply because it's been torturing people.
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Fact is, most of the people remaining at Gitmo are bad, bad, men
Who decides what's a "fact"? No, I'm not gonna get all postmodern on you: we have a system for establishing facts like these in this country. It involves two lawyers, a judge, and usually twelve citizens.
Yes, it's difficult to use it now, but only because the previous administration fucked up the process so badly at the start. If I'm making cookies from a cookbook recipe and I add motor oil in with the other ingredients at the start, do I really have grounds to yell "this cookbook is useless!" when the cookies come out horrible at the end? And then hand the disgusting cookie dough off to my brother, and say "OK you're so smart, *you* make some tasty cookies out of this!"