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Cybercriminals Shifting Focus To Non-Windows OSes

Orome1 writes "In a major cybercrime turning point, scammers have begun shifting their focus away from Windows-based PCs to other operating systems and platforms, including smart phones, tablet computers, and mobile platforms in general, according to the a new Cisco report. The report also finds that 2010 was the first year in the history of the Internet that spam volume decreased, that cybercriminals are investing heavily in 'money muling,' and that users continue to fall prey to myriad forms of trust exploitation."

265 comments

  1. Thank God.... by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Will they please target the Linux platform so we can prove once and for all to all the Windows lovers that the underlying architecture protects better than the Windows design?

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's not really as true anymore, though. I'm not sure if this is the article I read on it, but http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsId=3235498

      Also, even if the underlying architecture protects better... you can't protect people from their own stupidity. They will *absolutely* find ways to infect their machines with malware even if it requires becoming root.

      Fucking users.

    2. Re:Thank God.... by Spad · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not until you get an equal number of people using Linux who are determined to see the dancing bunnies.

    3. Re:Thank God.... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What makes you think they haven't?

      What you've described would be completely unmeasurable - because the only way you can properly measure exploits is when they are successful. There is no way to distinguish between failing to exploit Linux and not attempting an exploit it at all.

    4. Re:Thank God.... by Mike+Mentalist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Stallman? Is that you?

      --
      I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
    5. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Look. I support Linux as much as the next guy. Hell, I use it on two of my four systems. That being said, I hold no illusions that Linux would remain as secure as it is today were its use as widespread as Windows...nor would it remain as secure once you get Grandpa Joe and Soccer Mom Jennifer using it daily (i.e. super widespread adoption, increasing the number of people targeting it.)

      I'm not saying Linux isn't secure...I'm saying there is no way you can compare the security of an OS that barely holds 1% of the market to the most widely used OS on the entire planet. Linux hasn't been nearly as challenged as Windows, and as such any claims regarding its security when in extremely widespread use would be speculative at best and irresponsible at worst.

    6. Re:Thank God.... by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, Richard Stallman is, to his close friends, also known as Lumpy.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    7. Re:Thank God.... by PYRILAMPES · · Score: 0

      Based on "Insert random vague reference to a possibility that criminals avoid linux do to inaccurate user statististics" then its obvious we shuold abandon linux immediately... remove it from microsofts corporate servers and all other infrastructure servers. Remove China's accepted os and all buy win7 phones with a 1 gig data limit.

    8. Re:Thank God.... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2

      Also known as, the 8th and forgotten dwarf.

    9. Re:Thank God.... by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Uh they do take over Linux servers regularly. The architecture isn't better.

      As for desktops, if you somehow get Joe Schmoe to run an arbitrary executable[1] on either platform, Joe Schmoe's confidential data will be at risk, or his machine can be turned into a spam sending zombie. So no big difference. Whether the executable gets root/admin is irrelevant for many criminal purposes.

      Linux servers tend to be more useful targets than Linux desktops. I also wonder whether there are more Linux servers than Linux desktops ;).

      [1] Doesn't have to be an executable in the chmod sense of the word- perl Makefile.PL on a malicious Makefile.PL will still get you screwed.

      --
    10. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One thing Windows, equipped with Zone Alarm, does *MUCH BETTER* than Linux is to allow the user to control which programs are allowed to access the internet. In my experience that is the single best way to detect malware as most modern malware wants to get out to the 'net either to get it's real payload or to phone home with stolen information etc.

      Once I've set up a user's PC I walk them through adding their programs that require day to day internet access then I tell them if an unknown program attempts to connect to the internet (and gets the Zone Alarm popup confirmation dialogue to appear) then if they're not sure what the program is, or why the prompt has appeared, don't let it connect. If they need help identifying the program they can always ask me.

      This single feature is the best way of detecting most modern malware (in which I include all the crap that wants to periodically phone home to "check for updates") Linux's continued failure to provide this functionality means I still can't recommend it as a desktop O/S for my users.

      All Linux's design does is make it harder to root the box. Once it's worthwhile to do so you'll start seeing huge numbers of user accounts that have been hijacked and with it's default "all program can access the internet without the users express permission" firewall.

      This *WILL* become a problem when Linux desktops become popular and we'll start seeing Linux users having their data stolen, running bot nets (under their own account) etc. etc. You don't need root to do damage unless you require full control of the box.

      A desktop O/S should now allow *ANY* programs to access the internet without the users permission (o.k. maybe DNS can be allowed from the word go etc. etc. etc.) This is a lesson that should already have been learned.

    11. Re:Thank God.... by phyrexianshaw.ca · · Score: 2

      "Barely holds 1% of the market"

      Really? I'd like to know where you get your stats from. According to numerous sources, including W3's OS Statistics ( http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp ) DESKTOP linux users number about 5%. and that doesn't include the VAST number of servers.

      Linux in the server market outnumbers windows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems in the last few months "Linux/unix and variants" passed 50% of ALL server use.

      with most of the people in Internet Security working on a platform that's NOT windows, there's good reason it's as well secured as it is. (that and anybody can find/fix a bug in the open source world. but that's another topic entirely ;)

    12. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      1%, 5%...it's still no where near the number of Windows desktops out in the wild.

    13. Re:Thank God.... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apache holds 50% of the webserver market, often on Linux. Much more valuable targets than a generic PC.

    14. Re:Thank God.... by xemit · · Score: 2

      Linux already has that capability and has had it for years in the form of Selinux. The firewall that comes with Windows can already do that without the help of ZoneAlarm.

    15. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yup. And you have absolutely nailed the refrain that the Linux community will embrace when the platform is compromised: "Hey Linux is FINE. The user community is at fault. Now that there are so many troglodytes thinking they are admins, Linux is getting a bad reputation!"

    16. Re:Thank God.... by Skidborg · · Score: 1

      I think you've answered that one yourself. Everyone knows that artists don't have any money to steal.

      --
      Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
    17. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why do you lie? Will you accept the truth once and for all?, THERE IS MALWARE FOR MAC AND FOR LINUX BASED OSes. Not as many as for Windows but that's just because both OSes hold like 10% of the market share, but, you keep saying that, it won't change reality

    18. Re:Thank God.... by eugene2k · · Score: 2

      Can't be. He wrote "Linux" without the GNU/ prefix.

      --
      Apple has "Mac vs PC", Microsoft has "Laptop Hunters", Linux has recession
    19. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apache holds 50% of the webserver market, often on Linux. Much more valuable targets than a generic PC.

      No it is not. It is a professionally admined system that is outnumbered one to millions by clients where my malware will live happily undected for a long time, and where a couple of clean-ups - that is highly likely on the Apache server -- won't affect the malware network at all.

      And that people still thinks not running as root/admin is hugely important in this picture is strange 1) most malware lives quite happily in user space 2) besides social enginering to elevate, many silent escalation exploits exists for both Linux and osx 3) if you are conscious about security, you can't just wipe the user if you have a compromised system, you have no way of knowing if it hasn't been escalated outside user space.

    20. Re:Thank God.... by Tr3vin · · Score: 1

      There were 13 dwarves.

    21. Re:Thank God.... by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Come on. Anyone with any real security sense has been saying that all along. A basic firewall and some common sense is all that's needed to keep a Windows system secure from the average attacker. Meanwhile, the SSH dictionary attacks I get daily indicate that enough Linux/Unix users have sufficiently bad passwords to make it worthwhile.

    22. Re:Thank God.... by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      ZoneAlarm? Really? That's a really poor example. Best software firewall for windows that is out there is Comodo. It has been for years. It's a bonus that it comes with a free Internet security package for use in homes, schools, and small businesses. /free advert off

    23. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That must be why there's traditionally so much malware for Linux web servers, which hold the dominant share of the market. Oh, wait...

    24. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux users are of course more savvy than most Windows users

      Clearly you've never had to deal with the Ubuntu masses.

    25. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And can you name the 8th?

    26. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and when the malware uses a system component to call home? It's not hard to use IE for that... This is the reason ZoneAlarm turns to snake oil as soon as most people start to run it (and malware writers need to work around it -- currently they can't be arsed to do even that) .

    27. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there is malware running on linux based servers, you are just too much of a fanboy to understand it

    28. Re:Thank God.... by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      First, the report is not principally about platforms targeted but about types of criminal scams. But the secondary aspect is the one sensationalized by the reporter. Second, there is a big difference between "target" and "victim lying upside down on the floor waving its legs feebly in the air".

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    29. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hungry. What do you think happened to 9-13?

    30. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it doesn't. SELinux works nothing like Zone Alarm. SELinux is secure but it takes more configuration and doesn't have the "promt the user" functionality that is required.

      And the firewall that comes with Windows allows all outward connections by default.

      Only Zone Alarm provides the feature where a dialogue is presented to the user when a program tries to make an outward connection. White lists, ACLs etc. do not provide the simple, easily understood functionality, that the users I service require.

      Trust me I've looked at all the Linux offerings and nothing is a suitable "drop in" replacement. I'd love to be proved wrong but...

    31. Re:Thank God.... by mjm1231 · · Score: 2

      Purely anecdotal, but I purchased a netbook for my 13 year old daughter about a year ago. It came with Windows 7 starter edition. I believe the very first thing we did was install an antivirus program, most likely AVG or Avast. After owning it for two days, it was infected with a virus, so I installed Ubuntu netbook edition. There were a few minor glitches (wireless drivers required a patch, adding new fonts is so convoluted that I had to create a script for that) but otherwise she has used it without complaint or incident ever since.

      So on that one machine, for that one user, Windows averages an infection every 2 days, Linux never.

      --
      Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
    32. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lumpy...

      weren't you paying attention!?

    33. Re:Thank God.... by countSudoku() · · Score: 1

      Thanks, Ballmer! I'm going to run down to the computing store and purchase a safe, closed source, expensive, fear based product right this fucking minute... wait, I'm going to finish my coconut juice first, oh then I have to fiddle with some linuxy bits here in Solaris land. Oh crap, I forgot I need to get a van and move some other junk tonight. Oh, then I need to get some medication for my royal wedding fever... Perhaps next week, FOR SURE!!1!

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    34. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 2

      Again though, you're comparing a widely-used operating system to a barely-used operating system (from a desktop perspective, at least.) The number of people targeting Linux PCs is quite likely to be exponentially smaller that the number of people targeting a Windows PC.

    35. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really? I'd like to know where you get your stats from. According to numerous sources, including W3's OS Statistics ( http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp ) DESKTOP linux users number about 5%. and that doesn't include the VAST number of servers.

      W3schools is hardly representative for the average Internet user (it might have been 15 years ago). Linux 0.98% and falling

    36. Re:Thank God.... by Lord+Jester · · Score: 1

      The problem with ZA and other Windows firewalls is the users install stuff regularly that requires internet access and get in the habit of allowing the connection. It often becomes so frequent that it becomes Pavlovian. Users see the box and click Allow without thinking.

      The same will happen with Linux. With the desktop variant, they will see a dialog asking for their password to install and do it without thought.

      As much as it pains me to say, Windows has gotten better. My Windows machines stay relatively clean without much in the way of intervention.

      IMHO, Linux is still better, but it is partially due to the users.

      As far as I am concerned, 90% of all virus and malware infections, regardless of the platform, is PEBCAK!

    37. Re:Thank God.... by CrossChris · · Score: 1

      Not that anyone else other than you has seen!

    38. Re:Thank God.... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Oh, you think the main effort of the douchebag malware writers are out there is data on webservers... How quaint.

      It's not - it's botnets.

    39. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice comment dude, nice arguments. Fanboys, aghh

    40. Re:Thank God.... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1, Troll

      No it is not. It is a professionally admined system that is outnumbered one to millions by clients where my malware will live happily undected for a long time, and where a couple of clean-ups - that is highly likely on the Apache server -- won't affect the malware network at all.

      Yeah. That Linux server wouldn't be very valuable as a long-term botnet member. About the only useful information you could get out of such a server would be the database system it's connected to and all the credit card information it processes - hardly even worth bothering with.

      Seriously: did you think about that at all before posting, or did you just click Submit and hope for the best?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    41. Re:Thank God.... by CrossChris · · Score: 1

      THERE IS MALWARE FOR MAC AND FOR LINUX BASED OSes

      Not in the real world, there isn't. The only actual virus, trojan and malware infestations in the wild are on Windows machines. It's just another monopoly that MS have (and are welcome to!). Intelligent computer users don't use Windows.

    42. Re:Thank God.... by Tim+C · · Score: 2

      But how do you steal my credit card and bank details by hacking some random webserver?

      More to the point, the vast majority of Windows exploits are trojans. Those webservers are (mostly) maintained by sysadmins unlikely to execute the "shocking pics.zip.exe" file someone emailed them unexpectedly.

    43. Re:Thank God.... by CrossChris · · Score: 0

      Your statistics must be straight from Microsoft - they bear no relation to reality! Why do 90 of the top 100 websites on the planet use Linux as their OS? Why do another 6 use BSD? Why do only 4 use Windows / IIS?

      Linux is tested against attack much more rigorously and extensively than Windows ever could be - just by virtue of its predominance as a web server OS. MS just can't compete in secure computing (they don't really want to).

    44. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 0

      About the only useful information you could get out of such a server would be the database system it's connected to and all the credit card information it processes - hardly even worth bothering with.

      I think a better question would be did you think about that at all before posting? I'd say gaining all the credit card information a server processes would be very worth bothering with.

    45. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apache holds 50% of the webserver market, often on Linux. Much more valuable targets than a generic PC.

      The market share numbers for 2010 actually state almost 60%. Apache gained over 10% according to some surveys.

    46. Re:Thank God.... by mesanchez · · Score: 0

      Hahahaha, suuuure, my god you are fanboys, can you just accept that none piece of software is 100% secure? There isn't such thing.
      I'm not saying that Linux OSes suck, i fact i used to have Ubuntu and Windows 7 as dual boot, i think it's pretty good, but what this guy is saying is bullshit.

    47. Re:Thank God.... by Witmar · · Score: 0

      the problem is that exploiting linux doesn't require breaking a complex lock, since you can view the source code you just have to look through and find the weak spot. So it is less enjoyable for hacker, there is a certain joy we receive in making an electronic device bend to our will after hours of coding.

    48. Re:Thank God.... by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Uh. Please tell me how we'd know that they had targeted a Linux machine? I appreciate your idea but are you certain you thought it through? For surely the only notice we'd have of their work were if they succeeded in exploiting it. This conundrum is surely similar to that of proving God exists. Faith in security like faith in God kinda revolves around the notion of "no news is good news" wherein if you do not hear of exploits your faith may remain strong, but hear of one and the house comes tumbling down.

      This quandary is especially vexing. For we know that Linux is deployed the world over and in ever increasing numbers. We have never heard of a Linux system being exploited. This naturally bolsters our faith, yet like faith in God, sharing our faith in Linux security is met with equal ridicule and skepticism. Oh why do heathen believe in these wicked pretenders, these idols made of spaghetti code? Why are they so easily fooled into parting with their gold for indulgences, these so called anti-virals. If only they did not bed prostitutes, but married the one that was free, faithful and true they would not catch fleas. "Come live in the land of milk and honey" you say, but "nay" is their reply. For you see, they cannot, the world beyond their nose and there is plenty of refuse on which to dine in their gutter they call their home.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    49. Re:Thank God.... by Simon80 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if this is really true. After an exploit of e.g. Firefox or Flash player, an attacker can just put a keylogger into my session. If they also want root, they only need to wait for me to type my password into a terminal emulator. It's not exactly what I would call secure.

    50. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comodo ? buggy nagware. More like commode.

    51. Re:Thank God.... by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      It's been targeted for years. Just not on the desktop. Linux's largest problem is MISCONFIGURATION by incompetent admins (and there are a lot of them as it gains in popularity ... I inherited a bunch of that responsibility recently). Windows exploits, OTOH, are largely attacks against problems with the software itself. The only thing a competent admin can do in that situation is wait for the patch, or hope there is another mitigation.

    52. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      I was referring exclusively to the desktop/personal use space...hence why the word "server" was found nowhere in my OP.

      If you'd like to try to argue that Linux is even remotely as widespread in people's homes as Windows...well, good luck with that.

    53. Re:Thank God.... by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      Because there is absolutely now way that an organization of web developers will have a higher proportion of linux users. Please. Wikimedia said 2% of their traffic was linux users, and I think that's a much more fair sample to draw from. Either way I'm happy that it's getting traction in the desktop world. I run mostly windows stuff, but I have a CentOS file server and a linux mint laptop. http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/linux-desktop-market-share-small-no-matter-ho

    54. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      You're right, there is. Less for both OSes combined than the number of Windows viruses created in a single day. None of which are in circulation.

      So it is fair to say there is no malware for MacOS or Linux in the same way it is fair to say there is no smallpox. It's in the history books and there's probably a sample in a vault somewhere, but that's about it.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    55. Re:Thank God.... by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      Henry.

    56. Re:Thank God.... by kbielefe · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should do some research before making claims. AppArmor is included by default on Ubuntu and allows application level internet permissions. Granted, it is configured very liberally by default, and I'm not aware of an easy GUIfied way for end users to grant exceptions. That's a plus in my book, though. Any system administrator is free to lock it down as tight as they want, and if the general populace of Linux users starts running untrusted software willy nilly instead of using the package manager, a strengthening of defaults is only an update away.

      Also, AppArmor handles the reverse functionality very well, which is arguably more important: software that is allowed to connect to the internet can be restricted in other ways. For example, I can set up a folder that is completely invisible to internet connected applications for storing sensitive data in.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    57. Re:Thank God.... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      You're not much one for sarcasm, are you.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    58. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      I was convinced you were kidding, until I got to this line:

      Seriously: did you think about that at all before posting, or did you just click Submit and hope for the best?

      That's what threw off the detector :/

    59. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Hey, you know they installed their own OSes, how many Windows users can even install Windows?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    60. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I'd say there's a reason he posted anon.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    61. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      You got whooshed!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    62. Re:Thank God.... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Nope. I was being a smartass. I was just dazzled by the idea that an Apache server wouldn't be a worthwhile hacking target just because it might not be a good botnet member. That logic is up there with "breaking into this bank is useless - it makes an awful aquarium."

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    63. Re:Thank God.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Shhhhh!

      Now I'll have to change my hair style again.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    64. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux (like mac) has been targeted for many years. It is just a better platform so it does not suffer the issues like Windows does. The real issue will come when Linux is not as secure as Windows and the majority of the SKs, Virus writers, etc target them. But my bet is that it is a LONG WAYS AWAY.

    65. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thought it was the Bouncing sheep?

    66. Re:Thank God.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Linux/Unix/Solaris/BSD holds 70% of the server market.

        Those are the computers that matter, that hold keys to large kingdoms and large caches of valuable information.

      Why hack janet's pc to get a single CC number when I can hack the Linux servers at A corporation and get 10,000+ credit cards that are all verified for me.

      Dont you even try the fake argument that Linux and Unices are not a target. They are a bigger target than all of the windows universe combined.

      Getting a nasty running on a root DNS server for only 10 minutes is worth more than owning 60,000,000,000 Windows machines to a cyber criminal.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    67. Re:Thank God.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      You just gave me my new sig......

      "breaking into this bank is useless - it makes an awful aquarium."

      I gotta invite you to more parties..

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    68. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      My sister would pick up a virus at least once every two months on Windows, since switching her to Linux in 2007, not one. In fact I've only had to help her with it twice since, once to install a gstreamer codec (all through the GUI) and once to set up Skype and its audio levels.

      And she's running Firefox with Flash and Java support and she never updates the thing.

      To give you an idea of how good she is at finding malware, one time she took an out-of-date XP laptop I used for LAN gaming to use at school and brought it home infected that same evening. That's when I switched her to Linux.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    69. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      [1] Doesn't have to be an executable in the chmod sense of the word- perl Makefile.PL on a malicious Makefile.PL will still get you screwed.

      Actually a lot of apps that have this design vulnerability are addressing the problem. For example recent versions of WINE won't run an .exe unless it's set as executable.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    70. Re:Thank God.... by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      That's why I run Windows XP in a VirtualBox session, so that my Linux box, too, can share in the richness that is malware.

    71. Re:Thank God.... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      /takes a bow

      Try the veal! Tip your waitress!

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    72. Re:Thank God.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      If you want ZoneAlarm-like interactive firewall alerts and configuration you have a few options:

      - Linux-firewall

      - Mandi on Mandrake

      - Fireflierd (no longer maintained though)

      You can show UFW's log file as a Conky widget or something if you just want to let the user see attempts to send traffic out through unauthorized ports.

      So now that you see that your pet functionality is possible, please start recommending Linux as a desktop OS to your users.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    73. Re:Thank God.... by e4g4 · · Score: 2

      While it's admittedly been a couple of years (and OS revisions) since I've seen it - I have seen both Mac OS X Server (10.4.11) and Linux (specifically CentOS, forget the version) machines with rootkits on them that were put there by a remote exploit (ab)used by an automated attack (in smb, in the case of the mac server - yes, the machine had the smb port open to the wild. I'm not sure how the linux box got exploited; again though, it had more services exposed to the open web than it should have). They were both part of the C&C network for two different botnets (at least, that's my guess, judging by the IRC bot artifacts I found). So while there may not be any _viruses_ for those platforms, the security track record is far from perfect. Interestingly enough, the exploit pack that was used to attack the Mac server was a dual-platform toolkit, targeting both BSD (not entirely sure which flavor) and Darwin.

      --
      The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
    74. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. I was being a smartass. I was just dazzled by the idea that an Apache server wouldn't be a worthwhile hacking target just because it might not be a good botnet member. That logic is up there with "breaking into this bank is useless - it makes an awful aquarium."

      Uhm.. Hope you are aware that Apache servers get targeted and hacked quite frequently. It is just a very different kind of operation from the botnet malware one.

    75. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again though, you're comparing a widely-used operating system to a barely-used operating system

      Why do people consider this such a valid argument?

      Suppose there were thousands of snipers shooting at every Chevrolet they saw on the road, but never shooting at Fords. Which car would you rather be riding in?

    76. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until I reached the "Oh, wait", I thought you were serious. And agreed.

      Traditionally, the malware for web servers has targeted Unix (WTF are you talking about with Linux?).

    77. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The IOH (Institute of Hackers) research reveals that Linux users are too cash poor to be worth attacking and as such the IOH recommend not attacking Linux users.

    78. Re:Thank God.... by gorzek · · Score: 2

      Exactly. If people lose all their data in /home because they downloaded and ran a malicious program, they aren't going to care one whit that the underlying OS wasn't compromised. All they're going to think is, "This Linux crap isn't as secure as I was told!" Unless it actually does protect people from doing stupid things to their own data/user space, it's not going to matter how secure the underlying platform is.

    79. Re:Thank God.... by laughingcoyote · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And if you go look at the source code, you can find plenty of these exploits, I presume? I'll look forward to hearing about them with interest.

      The fact that bad guys can find a bug means good guys can find it too. Ultimately, that makes the whole platform more secure. Not perfectly secure, and there's no such thing, but awfully good.

      But feel free to repeat that old canard about using open source all over. In the meantime, those of us who depend on real machines with real security will use *nix, unless given absolutely no choice.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    80. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it's more like 60% according to netcraft.

    81. Re:Thank God.... by DrJimbo · · Score: 1
      Pojut said:

      I'm saying there is no way you can compare the security of an OS that barely holds 1% of the market to the most widely used OS on the entire planet.

      Please see this post:

      Will they please target the Linux platform so we can prove once and for all to all the Windows lovers that the underlying architecture protects better than the Windows design?

      Slashdot warning:
      Deep recursion in thread "Cybercriminals Shifting Focus To Non-Windows OSes" at post "Re:Thank God..." .

      --
      We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
      -- Anais Nin
    82. Re:Thank God.... by moeluv · · Score: 1

      While we are trading anecdotes...
      I own a duplex and live on one side a friend and his family on the other. I do all the pc maintenance. There are 4 windows and 2 linux boxes in the house total. None of them has ever had an issue with a virus. Security software and informed users are key. Even the kids in our house know better than to install untrusted programs. Educate your users man best you can it helps.

    83. Re:Thank God.... by DarthJohn · · Score: 1

      I just turn off password authentication and use RSA keys.

      I do see some 2-3 thousand "Bye bye"s a day though... on my personal computer connected to a cable modem.

    84. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So wouldn't it be like totally smart thing to do, I mean use Linux until it's as insecure as Windows?

      Would be stupid to use a platform that is CURRENTLY the most sucky.

      Not that I believe your claims at all, but still you are dumb asshat. :)

    85. Re:Thank God.... by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should do some research before making claims. AppArmor is included by default on Ubuntu and allows application level internet permissions. Granted, it is configured very liberally by default

      Yeah, when I checked the firefox apparmor sandbox wasn't much of a sandbox.

      An apparmor sandbox that's configured very liberally by default is not like ZoneAlarm and other similar software that make companies $$$ by scaring their users (whether rightfully or wrongfully).

      --
    86. Re:Thank God.... by phyrexianshaw.ca · · Score: 1

      The point is that a LARGE portion of the world runs on linux. whether it be the embedded software running in your router, or the cache server you're pulling data from at this moment.

      Linux is everywhere: the reason people don't bother exploiting it is because it's so easy to sandbox a machine and see exactly what's going on from userspace all the way to kernel land.
      once you know how an attack works, it's easy to fix the issue. In the open source world, patches/fixes can be released/deployed in minutes/hours, rather then weeks/months.

      The difference is not that there ARE NOT EXPLOITS, the key is that anyone can fix them.

      One of the key's in what makes people target desktop users is the old saying "attack what has value". The PCN transaction machines in most major networks contain a LOT more value then the likely-already-maxed-credit-cards of most end users.

    87. Re:Thank God.... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      I got lucky awhile ago when a poorly written shell script [which I wrote] wound up doing a 'sudo rm -rf /' instead of bailing with an error.

      My important/useful data in /Users and /Volumes was saved only because I noticed the script was taking WAY longer than it should have and I have a /Library folder with a huge number of files.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    88. Re:Thank God.... by tendrousbeastie · · Score: 1

      It isn't an average with only 1 sample.

    89. Re:Thank God.... by gorzek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm thinking non-technical users should never be told about sudo. :-p

    90. Re:Thank God.... by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      ...since you can view the source code you just have to look through and find the weak spot.

      I'll get my secretary right on it...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    91. Re:Thank God.... by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

      I do maintain Windows desktops for friends and family and I haven't seen a virus in over 5 years.

      Problem users should be put on limited accounts or at least moved away from IE and pop mail. Putting friends and family on Linux just leads to phone calls about how they actually need software x or now need your help getting a scanner working.

    92. Re:Thank God.... by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

      Did you forget about this story already?

      http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/09/20/0217204/Linux-Kernel-Exploit-Busily-Rooting-64-Bit-Machines?from=rss

      That exploit left a lot of web hosts hacked. If Windows Server is so insecure then why is MSN never hacked?

    93. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes finally we will able to all marvel at the collective silence when the linux community realizes that it is just apiece of software created by people. So that means roughly 8 errors for every 1000 lines of code, so you can bet with enough scrutiny, Linux will be found full of holes. After all people did the coding and most people are thick.
      There have been weaknesses found in every OS and program ever made, so how the Linux folks think it will be different for them still astounds me, but this is coming most likely from an American who truly believes they are free, and that the US is the greatest country to live in? lol

      It's software, it's written by people, it is full of holes, and they will find them. And really a piece software which has more possibility that some member added a backdoor, or a module creator who decided it would be nice to get root wherever his module was installed. But of course all the entities involved in creating this open source software were doing it with benevolent intentions, and none of them saw an opportunity to get some code out there that might be useful in the future. I'm sure that none of the organized crime entities out there did not see an opportunity to be able to inject malicious code into an OS in the formative stages.

      How do most windows users now there is an issue with malware? The code is not written well and starts screwing up, causing errors, and slowing the machine down. But how about his, what if an organization realized it could create a backdoor and inject it into the OS? You would test it and make sure it runs so that no one will notice it or that anything is happening at all. You make sure it has all the documentation and support for an actual app that looks necessary, and run your code in the background, looking like your innocent "whatever program". If a person had a hand in it, then there are errors, if a person had a hand in it then it is possible they found a way to take advantage of you.

    94. Re:Thank God.... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      "Under 'redundant' in the dictionary it says 'see: redundant'" :)

    95. Re:Thank God.... by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

      Because it is much easier to get 10k credit cards through trojans, especially when so many janets and johns have updates turned off.

      By your logic Windows Server should be the best target, and yet criminals are going after users. Why is that?

    96. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sysadmins fault, what moron gives a 13 year old admin rights? I;m sure she's not running Ubuntu using root? Bozo nice try, blaming the tool, when it's the tool setting it up. Also no parental controls? 2 mins of your time would have secured the windows system, following any basic security tips would have prevented it.

      It's like installing a top of the line security alarm, installing a titanium door with matching locks, and then leaving the house with the doors wide open and the password for the alarm written and pasted to the key pad. You are a prime example of why Linux will be just as infected, I'm sure everything on your daughters machine is default install. You did no locking down or after install configuring. So you are an example of security through obscurity. You are in fact no more safe than you were when you had windows installed, there just isn't as much traffic coming down your street to notice your door is wide open.

    97. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because we know SSH is trojan software in disguise. If you block root access and blacklist IP addresses, these attacks are almost hopeless. Attacks against web servers are generally easier if you can do sql injection.

    98. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how do you steal my credit card and bank details by hacking some random webserver?

      By making sure the random webserver is one of the ones with tons of its customers' credit card numbers stored on it?
        Duh?

    99. Re:Thank God.... by genner · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm thinking non-technical users should never be told about sudo. :-p

      They just end up using su root.

    100. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be stupid. Can't you tell sarcasm when you read it?

    101. Re:Thank God.... by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      True, however the other family members who's accounts were NOT affected by the sucker will be singing a different tune.

    102. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not hard to make a virus piggy back browsers and email clients to access the internet. They've been doing it for years already.

      Considering Linux does have software available to do all the application based blocking stuff you hold so dear, and that doing this blocking is a very small obstacle for malware, I think you should rethink your position on Linux (and perhaps what you consider to be good security).

    103. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plenty connections (by bots and humans, both logged) hitting my ssh honeypot... you'd be surprised

    104. Re:Thank God.... by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      What I'm saying is that the attacks occur regularly. Were they actually hopeless, no one would bother trying them. The fact that they do occur means they are getting through and compromising targets. There's nothing wrong with SSH. I'm saying there are plenty of Unix users and admins with bad setups and bad passwords. Users are the problem, not the system itself.

    105. Re:Thank God.... by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      The point isn't that he's being exploited. The point is that if people keep trying it, it's an indication that it's probably successful for them some percent of the time. Which means lots of people are not blocking root access and blacklisting IP addresses, which is in turn an indication that really a lot of malware is hitting systems that are secure in and of themselves, but where the user goes out of his or her way to get owned -- by, for example, having dictionary passwords.

    106. Re:Thank God.... by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Nobody is saying that Linux is 100% free, but we are saying that there is no active malware running (actually running, not just being stored on a samba share between windows clients) on linux-based servers. If you know otherwise, why not point one out?

    107. Re:Thank God.... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Web servers are predominately linux boxes these days, have been for more than 10 years probably.

    108. Re:Thank God.... by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Lol, the only difference is that if the linux virus somehow got free, it would be lucky to be able to decimate a single computer lab :P

    109. Re:Thank God.... by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      How many windows users can even differentiate windows from word?

    110. Re:Thank God.... by AmonTheMetalhead · · Score: 1

      How can a shellscript execute sudo without somehow providing the password?

    111. Re:Thank God.... by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Sort of, the operating itself isn't being attacked, the badly scripted website framework is most commonly the target of the attack. That's sort of like saying a BMW is easy to hot-wire because you can easily steal the purse off the passenger seat when the ass-hat owner leaves the top down.

    112. Re:Thank God.... by mesanchez · · Score: 0

      And you're wrong. There is plenty of Linux malware running, check out andriod, for example. The fact that you are so confident that don't care at all doesn't means that you don't have malware running.

    113. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a better question would be: do you understand sarcasm?

    114. Re:Thank God.... by bbtom · · Score: 2

      I went to a machine the other day and found the user's password on a post-it note.

      That's common enough, right?

      Except he was in /etc/sudoers. Not any more.

      I'm instituting a new security policy: if you leave your password on a post-it note, you lose sudo. If I find your password on a post-it note again, I get to hit you on the head with a hammer. Eventually it will stop.

      --
      catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
    115. Re:Thank God.... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      "breaking into this bank is useless - it makes an awful aquarium."

      Yeah, but they give away free toasters.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    116. Re:Thank God.... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back congratulating yourself on your super security you might want to read this which shows how to write a Linux virus in just 5 easy steps that will be just as nasty as a Windows bug and then maybe you'll remember the problem isn't Windows but PEBKAC.

      I should know I fix the things 6 days a week and I'd say that more than 90% of the bugs that cross my desk were installed by the user either through scare tactics or through the promise of porn or free stuff. I'd say a good 80% of the rest were infected by outdated third party software like Java, Flash and Reader which frankly nobody ever updates. The "your flash is out of date! Run 'pwnme.exe' to get the lates verson!" is quite popular at the moment, as well as "ZOMG! U got teh Viruz! Run 'Viruzfker.exe' to kill the ZOMG Viruz quick!!".

      So in conclusion before the smugness chokes us out here let me say this: You better drop to your knees and thanks Linus and RMS that Linux isn't popular because if you got the huge teeming masses of unwashed rabble onto your OS it would come falling down like a house of cards by...oh I'd say 3:45PM tomorrow. Faster than you can say "Oh shit!" there would be emails with "free_titties.sh" and "Happy_Puppies_screensaver.py" with nice little instructions that the user would follow without thought and your precious security would be so much Swiss Cheese.

      It is the classic dancing bunnies problem and if anyone could solve it they would be richer than Gates. I have seen an AV practically throw itself in front of a user trying to stop them only to have them completely disable it because the malware offered something they wanted. Linux won't protect from that level of stupidity sorry. Hell you can't even blame it on Windows running as admin anymore since both Vista and 7 don't allow the user to run as admin but instead use the Linux model of only elevating for install yet the users put in their password and install the bugs anyway no matter how much the AV and OS tries to do to stop them.

      TLDR you can't solve social engineering with tech, just as you can't solve 419 email scams with filters. Stupid is as stupid does Forest, stupid is as stupid does.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    117. Re:Thank God.... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      The script needed the permission as it was part of an overall script to uninstall/build/install some software I was working on. I thought I had properly made sure the path to The Sudo rm was reasonable but it got an uninitialized var which rm decided to treat as "/".

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    118. Re:Thank God.... by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      What makes you think they haven't?

      What you've described would be completely unmeasurable - because the only way you can properly measure exploits is when they are successful. There is no way to distinguish between failing to exploit Linux and not attempting an exploit it at all.

      Uh we don't know the ratio, but if the absolute measure of successes is rising that leaves us with becoming less secure or bigger target.
      I agree with you, it is probably both.

    119. Re:Thank God.... by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Apache holds 50% of the webserver market, often on Linux. Much more valuable targets than a generic PC.

      How many bank accounts are likely to be compromised by keyloggers on Apache servers and how many from generic PCs?
      I think "much more" is a stretch even if the difficulty level of compromising either were the same, which they are not (server vs. desktop), regardless of OS.

    120. Re:Thank God.... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      And if you are wrong and you find that Linux is just as Bad if not worse then Windows in protection... Then what... Are you going to swallow your pride. No! you will just find an other lame excuse to make you feel happy that your life is some how better then the rest because you use a different computer operating system.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    121. Re:Thank God.... by Ice+Station+Zebra · · Score: 1

      Adding fonts isn't hard. Open the font file and click install font.

    122. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's Frank Cross. Bill Murray's character on Scrooged.

    123. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux runs the damn internet. Servers sit on fat pipes and (often) running on very expensive hardware. Servers also handle sensitive information all the freaking time making them very juicy targets. When the internet shits itself and falls over sideways because a large number of Linux boxes manage to get infected then I will take your comment seriously. Last time I checked that hasn't happened, leading me to believe you are full of shit; most likely coming from a Redmond pipe.

    124. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. You don't get to measure the truly successful exploits because part of their success has to be that they are undetected and can therefore survive to further whatever their malicious ends are. If they can be detected they aren't successful because they can therefore be stopped. (They could be partially successful and achieve some result prior to being stopped but that's not much use if you do get stopped but in the process leave behind an audit trail....)

    125. Re:Thank God.... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Only to be replaced by passwords like "Sup3rBunnyFuck3r" - which is as good as a dictionary word really.

      If it's on a post-it note, this likely indicates that it is already too difficult to keep memorized.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    126. Re:Thank God.... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      You must have done something wrong/weird then:

      --no-preserve-root do not treat ‘/’ specially
      --preserve-root do not remove ‘/’ (default)

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    127. Re:Thank God.... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      If you have credit card numbers stored on your webserver, I know some folks who would love to have a few words and/or fines with you.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    128. Re:Thank God.... by bbtom · · Score: 1

      It was six characters [a-z] all lower case.

      One of these days, I'll replace login with biometrics or something. I bet even then users would leave DNA swabs or fingerprint moulds floating around like post-it notes.

      --
      catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
    129. Re:Thank God.... by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      I've never, ever had it nag me. Grisoft's AVG, yes, but never Comodo.

    130. Re:Thank God.... by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      Try this: :(){ :|:& };:

    131. Re:Thank God.... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I think coupling a password with an RSA key is a decent enough method. The problem with that is the cost (and then you get people forgetting/losing/lending cards).

      I think we just need to remove people from the system all together :P

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    132. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why steal one person's credit card when if you break into a webserver that acts as a payment portal you could have millions of credit cards?

      Also, I believe most of those Windows computers being exploited are being used as spambots.

    133. Re:Thank God.... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      There were 13 dwarves.

      Actually there were originally 47 dwarfs.

      But when that whittled down to 8 the others began to suspect Hungry.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    134. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Stored on the webserver" is a red herring. If they break into the server, it's a simple matter to switch out the software with a broken version that logs and sends any credit card numbers that pass through it.

    135. Re:Thank God.... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      No OS is 100% secure or crack proof, and you can trojan or social engineer any system, but the fact remains that there are no Linux or Mac viruses, and saying "oh your Linux and Mac boxes can be cracked" (yes, it can) doesn't change that fact.

    136. Re:Thank God.... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Well, in Windows users' defence, Windows is a pain in the as to install (or at least was until XP, the last Windows I installed), but every Linux distro I've ever tried was brain-dead simple to install.

    137. Re:Thank God.... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      Why is your SSH port open to the Internet? That's what VPNs are for.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    138. Re:Thank God.... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      "I have Microsoft XP."

      Need I say more?

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    139. Re:Thank God.... by jaroslaw.fedewicz · · Score: 1

      You must have done something wrong/weird then:

      --no-preserve-root do not treat ‘/’ specially
      --preserve-root do not remove ‘/’ (default)

      He's on OS X (judging from /Library, /Users etc). Its default rm is not that smart.

    140. Re:Thank God.... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      That... sucks. Is it just an old version, or do they not use the GNU userspace tools?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    141. Re:Thank God.... by phyrexianshaw.ca · · Score: 1

      Rather random "the more you know", all of wikipedia runs on linux.

      http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers

    142. Re:Thank God.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So everyone who uses Wikipedia is clearly using linux..... no

    143. Re:Thank God.... by nspyraishn · · Score: 1

      @Lumpy FTR, Ubuntu Linux has been targeted in multiple hacking competitions, most notably PWN 2 OWN, and has never been successfully exploited beyond the user layer. Furthermore, as any Linux-savvy user should know, Ubuntu is by comparison one of the more insecure distributions of Linux; good luck *ever* hacking a hardened Gentoo distro with SELinux and good security practices. If Windows was open-source, then we would have a decently secure operating system. "With enough eyeballs, any bug is shallow."

    144. Re:Thank God.... by jaroslaw.fedewicz · · Score: 1

      Their version is more akin to BSDs, which is more akin to naked POSIX, which is kinda frustrating after all GNU goodness you've had. The only thing more feature-crippled is Busybox, but it has a very good reason to be like that —being tremendously small, which unfortunately Mac OS X does not.

  2. Someone who RTFA by DMiax · · Score: 2

    Could you tell me how a *scam* targets an OS? I thought the Nigerian Prince thing was cross platform...

    1. Re:Someone who RTFA by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      Scam includes schemes with dishonest elements. My best example for you is the one a few stories back about hackers embedding code into job interview resumes. The results differ depending on the OS "targetted". If you are running Xfce on Slackware with ultra custom mods derived from the Species 8472 from Star Trek scriptwriter manuals, you'll laugh at malware.

      If you're a typical overworked cube dweller running Win2000 you'll get hosed.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    2. Re:Someone who RTFA by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Scam includes schemes with dishonest elements. My best example for you is the one a few stories back about hackers embedding code into job interview resumes. The results differ depending on the OS "targetted". If you are running Xfce on Slackware with ultra custom mods derived from the Species 8472 from Star Trek scriptwriter manuals, you'll laugh at malware.

      If you're a typical overworked cube dweller running Win2000 you'll get hosed.

      If you are a typical cube dweller running Win2000 you already are hosed.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  3. Funny turn of events... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay, it's safe to use Windows again!

  4. Android app store now rejecting apps by goombah99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I see in the news that the android app store is now rejecting apps. The apps rejected were ones that downloaded other apps. Thus they were vectors for invasive software. Or at least potentially so. Likewise Moto is locking down droid with a re-incarnating system rom and apoptotic immune system. Apple has been heavily criticized for it's app store restrictions. But to me all these moves are a great idea. I don't want my phone to be so versatile that I have constantly be vigilent. Someday I might work up the nerve to let it function as a credit card. I defintely want to see years of virus/torjan free operation before I try that.

    If I wanted a toy I could program as I wish I'd buy one of those. But please let there be some severly locked down phones before we all get telphonically transmitted diseases.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by Spad · · Score: 2

      Rejecting apps because they're potential malware vectors (or outright malware) - Fine
      Rejecting apps because they offend your delicate sensibilities or the menu bar is the wrong shade of teal, at least for this week - Less Fine

    2. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by icebraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't see any problem with the Android App Store restrictions because you can choose to install packages from other sources if you choose. So, if you like feeling safe, don't mess with it. If you don't like the restriction, enable out of store installations.

      Motorola's eFuse, on the other hand, seem nothing more than a way for them to control your phone; I don't see how it protects you.

    3. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by kellyb9 · · Score: 2

      I don't necessarily see the comparison between android locking down its app store to potential malware versus the Apple app store locking down its store because they don't like apps that are in "poor taste". One is clear cut censorship and the other is meant as preventitive security measure.

    4. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by migla · · Score: 1

      If I wanted a toy I could program as I wish I'd buy one of those. But please let there be some severly locked down phones before we all get telphonically transmitted diseases.

      Well, I for one, would still want the prerogative to install whatever from wherever.

      Sure, a "locked down", malware-free repository is a good thing, but there is no need to restrict my freedom to fuck up with 3:rd party software if I want to.

      If I want to be safe, I'll just not use any unaudited third party apps.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    5. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Motorola's eFuse, on the other hand, seem nothing more than a way for them to control your phone; I don't see how it protects you.

      If somebody roots your phone, it will refuse to boot.

      I still don't want it, and there are certainly ways for malware to abuse it (Either just install a program, instead of altering the OS, or intentionally brick it to need a restore as a DoS attack), but it's not entirely without merit.

    6. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      before we all get telephonically transmitted diseases.

      Major outbreaks of phonerea and syphiliSMS?

    7. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      Motorola's eFuse, on the other hand, seem nothing more than a way for them to control your phone; I don't see how it protects you.

      Simply because no one can install software at a lower level than motorolas boot loader other than motorola.

      No one can install a hypervisor that will maintain control over the phone while still appearing to be running factory firmware for all intents and purposes.

      Okay, so it may be possible because Motorola (or someone in the chain) made a mistake, but the idea is that you can't possibly get a boot virus UNLESS it comes from motorola themselves.

      One could argue that motorola is just selling you a phone thats already infected with their crapware, but thats another debate entirely.

      From a technical standpoint, what they are doing does result in better security unless/until someone finds a way around it. Their argument is sound until a flaw is found in the implementation. The argument will still be sound, but that particular implementation will be flawed.

      The side effect to the increased security is ... you don't get to run any random software you choose.

      To me, this is no different than raising the securelevel in *BSD. It grants you some security in exchange for some loss of functionality, for most people the exchange is a welcome one. Geeks on the other hand would prefer to be able to futs with all the code on the device, so they probably won't want a motorola device, as moto said, buy something else.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    8. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Motorola's eFuse, on the other hand, seem nothing more than a way for them to control your phone; I don't see how it protects you.

      All eFuse does is prevents you from loading an unsigned kernel. It's at the bootloader not the OS, once the OS is running you can do whatever you like.

      So it can't protect you one bit.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:Android app store now rejecting apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is the thing. You should not be able to install non-repository applications easily. It shouldn't be a few clicks simple to do though. The majority of applications should be in the operating systems large central repository. If it isn't you should have to go through a few hoops. That doesn't mean a command line. It shouldn't be so hard as to require a technical support person even though instruction from such a person should be advised. That simply means you have to download the program, then go to applications -> install unvetted software, find the application, and then be presented with a warning that this software may be dangerous and generally should not be installed by non-technical persons unless advised otherwise.

  5. We can come out of hiding! by puterg33k · · Score: 0

    It's safe to use Windows again! :)

  6. That's part of the protection. by khasim · · Score: 1

    They will *absolutely* find ways to infect their machines with malware even if it requires becoming root.

    The more steps the user has to complete, the more likely that they will fail to install the malware on their system.

    90% success with a single step is only 81% success with two steps (of 90% success each).

    Three steps (90% success each) is only 73% success.

    And that's not even counting the various worms that won't work because the systems do not ship with services listening for them by default.

    You will NEVER stop trojans ... but you can reduce their number significantly just by requiring more steps for their installation.

    1. Re:That's part of the protection. by gazbo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Best part of a decade ago there was a Windows email virus (forget which one, sorry) that did rather well for itself. In order to avoid detection, it spread by email in a password protected zip file. In order to become infected, the user had to open the zip by typing in the randomly generated password given in the email, extract the executable within, then run it.

      It was then that I realised there will never be a technical solution that makes more than a dent in malware infections.

    2. Re:That's part of the protection. by TheLink · · Score: 2

      Yeah. The same users on a "Desktop Linux" (or even OSX) system would be happy to "perl bunnies", "python snake", "ruby jewels" or even chmod 755 sexy.jpg; ./sexy.jpg, and get just as pwned.

      --
    3. Re:That's part of the protection. by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      It also helps to close the "preview" pane, and never use it again. Especially in Outlook

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    4. Re:That's part of the protection. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've got one better. About the same time there were some emails going around that alerted the user that there was a computer virus infecting PCs. The email provided detailed step-by-step instructions as to how the virus can be manually detected and removed from the system. Lastly the email asked that the user forward it to everyone that they know in order to help them as well. What the email did was get the user to manually delete some system files and the continue the propagation of the email. There was no payload and the only arbitrary execution was that of the end user. I dubbed it the "Amish virus" and it clearly demonstrates that degree to which social engineering can be effective in defeating the safeguards we put into place.

    5. Re:That's part of the protection. by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Not quite that bad, but I got a call from the secretary of the Dean of Engineering one day, desperate to open a file. She emailed me a copy and the extension looked weird, so I asked her what it was. She said she didn't know, but the Dean had gotten it and needed it open badly. Who was it from? She didn't know that, couldn't ask the dean because he was away, but she and four other people had been tasked with repeatedly trying to open the file before they finally sent it to me.

      A virus, naturally, and I had to spend the rest of the day cleaning up the entire Dean's Office.

    6. Re:That's part of the protection. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If so this attack would already be popular. Interpreted languages seem pretty safe so far. And just what is it about the CLI do you think makes people happy about the idea of typing in something they don't understand?

      Tenebrousedge (1226584)
      Anon for moderation

    7. Re:That's part of the protection. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is non-sense. A properly designed system would not let users easily run non-approved applications. Those applications though shouldn't be hard to get added to the repository. That basically means the source code should be available for public inspection by third parties.

    8. Re:That's part of the protection. by JackOfAllGeeks · · Score: 1

      This is non-sense. A properly designed system would not let users easily run non-approved applications.

      "Non-approved" by who? If it's the user's home machine, the user is the approving authority, and users will approve stupid things.

    9. Re:That's part of the protection. by JackOfAllGeeks · · Score: 1

      The more steps the user has to complete, the more likely that they will fail to install the malware on their system.

      90% success with a single step is only 81% success with two steps (of 90% success each).

      You will NEVER stop trojans ... but you can reduce their number significantly just by requiring more steps for their installation.

      The problem here is that a trojan is just a regular program with non-advertised functionality. In other words, to require more steps for trojan installation, you have to require more steps for *all* installations. If users only have a 50% or less chance of successfully installing software, then they just won't use that OS.

    10. Re:That's part of the protection. by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      And just what is it about the CLI do you think makes people happy about the idea of typing in something they don't understand?

      The lure of free porn/celebrity gossip/"Is this you on being a drunken fool on Facebook?"/etc.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  7. Patched vulnerabilities vs real-world exploits by david.emery · · Score: 1

    The CISCO report highlights growth in Apple's reported patched vulnerabilities. But it seems to me that a theoretic vulnerability is not the same as an actual real-world exploit. This is particularly true when there's a zero-day exploit that causes 'badguy code' to run. If that code runs in a non-privileged account and therefore can't accomplish its intent, does that count as an actual problem?

    I'm not trying here to push the "Macs are better" argument, but rather explore the question of how we measure vulnerabilities, exploits, etc. And of course, there's the "decidability question" that others have mentioned: How do you know when an attempt to exploit a vulnerability -fails-?

    So maybe we need 3 measures:
        vulnerabilities
        attempted exploits
        successful exploits
    A lot of people have argued (the "antibody" approach) that it's better to focus on recovering from/mitigating an exploit, rather than believing we can remove all vulnerabilities. Would our current measures show the success (or failure) of that approach?

  8. Cybercriminals? by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    "Cybercriminals Shifting Focus To Non-Windows OSes"
    Ugh... I've been playing too much Shadowrun apparently, because this headline brought on all sorts of odd imagery.

  9. Macs are still no mans land by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses. Majority of its users still do not have anti-virus software of any kind.

    The pioneer who goes in first, strikes the gold.

    1. Re:Macs are still no mans land by lurch_mojoff · · Score: 2

      This has been the case throughout the whole of the last ten years and we've been eagerly awaiting said pioneer for at least 4-5 of them. Still nothing. I'm starting to suspect that there is actually no gold and that the only ones who haven't figured it out yet are some of the folks on Slashdot.

    2. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back on the mac classic it was a 'interesting' game we would play. Start with a 'clean' floppy. By the end of the week of using the different computers in the labs at school how many viri would you have on that 1 floppy. Norton was the scorecard. Macs used to be *THE* playground for viri writers. They moved onto greener pastures of windows. The new 'green pastures' *will* be those millions of un-upgradable routers/phones/tvs that have linux built in and the manufactures no longer support. There is a massive number of these devices out there. All plugged in 24/7...

    3. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Myth? Name one.

    4. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Alrescha · · Score: 2

      "Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses."

      Myth? Please point to a current Mac virus.

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    5. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses. Majority of its users still do not have anti-virus software of any kind.

      The pioneer who goes in first, strikes the gold.

      Agree with the myth being a myth (JFGI). But with just 5% Mac marketshare I wouldn't exactly call it gold :)

    6. Re:Macs are still no mans land by andrewagill · · Score: 2

      Why not just install Sophos' free version for Mac?

    7. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not just install Sophos' free version for Mac?

      Is that a good virus to install?

    8. Re:Macs are still no mans land by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Pics or it didn't happen. I have yet to see an actual OS X virus in the wild.

      Trojans, sure. Anytime you have L-series users, you'll have trojans. But an actual virus?

      Show us what you got.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    9. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses.

      Other common myths: water is wet and the sun is bright.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    10. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does linking to a Google search that doesn't list any viruses debunk a myth? (Note there has been malware, several trojans, just nothing really spread very far and no viruses I know of). As for the value, more and more malware is harvesting account information for online services and CC and banking info going through the machine. Given that Macs (like several other computer makers) sell primarily on the higher end and are concentrated in wealthy parts of the world, this results in more valuable info to harvest. 5% of the high end, without any competition from other trojans would be lucrative indeed.

    11. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses."

      Myth? Please point to a current Mac virus.

      A.

      Please see list: http://www.iantivirus.com/threats/

    12. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the oldest one I could find. They may have been the first, but then again they may have also just been the first to be caught.

      OSXleapa

    13. Re:Macs are still no mans land by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Does a trojan count?

      securemac.com should probably be told that they are completely useless, as there is nothing for them to fight against.

    14. Re:Macs are still no mans land by alien9 · · Score: 2

      a couple weeks ago I was told by Mom that her Mac had got a 'virus'... I was amused until went there and saw that actually it was sophos antivirus for mac which had detected windows malware she downloaded from rogue email... lol

    15. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      Myth? Please point to a current Mac virus.

      Here, here, here, and here.

      I'm sure there are more, but I think I've answered your request.

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    16. Re:Macs are still no mans land by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      It's a trojan, but malware exists for the Mac CNN

    17. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Poking a Mac is the near equivalent of poking a *NIX system. Given the popularity of Macs I suspect we're only having our faith in *NIX further validated. *NIX was here before M$ and will be here long after. I have no doubt there have been and will be many, many failed pioneers.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    18. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Leap malware is usually classified as a trojan, but it is certainly arguable. And it was found "in the wild" as in someone posted it to a forum. That said, since it doesn't actually work it's not a very good example. it can only spread within a LAN if the user is an admin and has changed the default autodiscovery settings in iChat. It does attempt to propagate, sort of, but requires the user to manually untar it and run it. In short, while someone tried to make malware for OS X and spread it, they failed miserably and there is no indication it ever actually went anywhere after being posted to the forum and dissected by curious users.

    19. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Please see list: http://www.iantivirus.com/threats/

      Umm okay reading the list I see: proof of concept trojan never in the wild, keylogger, password cracker, five more keyloggers, demo trojan, then a bunch more keyloggers and legitimate remote management apps. Can you be a little more specific as to where on that giant list the in the wild virus is? I searched for "virus" on the page but of the first 20 or 30 results none were viruses, except for a few that applied only to MacOS 6, which predates OS X.

    20. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2

      Going through your list we have: 1) proof of concept never in the wild and no threat; 2) failed virus that doesn't actually work, requires a user to untar and run the app, then fails to propagate except on the local LAN if the users is an admin with specific changes to their configuration and which by all accounts never went anywhere after being posted to a forum; 3) trojan; 4) trojan.

      I'm sure there are more, but I think I've answered your request.

      None of those are current viruses. Only two of them are viruses at all, the first a proof of concept never released and without a payload and the second barely a virus at all, usually called a trojan and a complete failure. Neither are ever likely to be seen by a user.

    21. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      Ok ok, I just did a quick search. Here's a whole page of vulnerabilities. The point is that OSX, nor any platform, is completely without flaws and impossible to infect. As I'm sure several people have pointed out, as OSX becomes more prevalent, you'll see people working harder to develop malware. And no, I'm not a Windows fanboi. I have several computers with OSes ranging from XP to Haiku, including OSX. To say that a Mac is unable to get a virus is like Hitler saying his army didn't need cold weather gear in Siberia.

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    22. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Or the myth that running Windows will get your virii. Been Virii/Malware free for 12 years on Windows, 10 of those 12 years without active virus scanners and the past 2 years with MSE1/2.

      Tip, don't run all your apps as admin and don't install every program you see.

    23. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trojans do not count. By their very nature they require user interaction to function. These kinds of attacks will always succeed as long as there are users willing to click "Allow" regardless of the OS type involved.

      A virus requires no user interaction. It is designed to replicate and spread autonomously.

    24. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pioneer who goes in first, strikes the gold.

      Several have tried. They all struck mud. Making a virus for a mac means tricking the user into jumping through all kinds of hoops to unpack and install it.

    25. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      No, since the user is the one fooled into installing it. As long people are able to install software in their machines you will not stop trojans, regardless of the OS unless we are talking about stock iOS. We are talking about self replicating, self installing virus.

      Now, I would like that Apple kill the "open safe files automatically" in Safari and spend more time in the OS install process to teach basic security procedures to new users to be a happy customer.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    26. Re:Macs are still no mans land by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what I want to point out. People who buy Apple stuff are usually more affluent and more likely to have a no-credit-limit CC.

    27. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      A OS 9 virus, a PowerPC/10.4 trojan, a proof of concept virus and a trojan that uses social engineering to scam $39.99 from unsuspecting users that also need to explicitly download and install it. That's the best you managed to find? Is like saying old unpatched releases of BIND are insecure and installing random software from internet is a bad idea.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    28. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trojans do not count. By their very nature they require user interaction to function. These kinds of attacks will always succeed as long as there are users willing to click "Allow" regardless of the OS type involved.

      A virus requires no user interaction. It is designed to replicate and spread autonomously.

      You are aware that you here are acquitting Windows for most malware troubles as well? It's mostly variants of trojans these days, not the viruses of past.

    29. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 1

      Trojans will cease to be a significant concern when most users look and install software from OS X App Store. We can discuss about the freedom implications of it, but from a security viewpoint it is a welcome improvement on OS X.

      --
      Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    30. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Self replicating and self installing virii? I think Win7 has 1 or two of those. Everything else requires the user to install it. Even then, those 1-2 virii still require admin privs.

    31. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2

      Ok ok, I just did a quick search. Here's a whole page [securemac.com] of vulnerabilities.

      Vulnerabilities != viruses. Realistically, to date more Mac users have been compromised by faulty antivirus software than have had problems because of viruses.

      The point is that OSX, nor any platform, is completely without flaws and impossible to infect.

      That's a straw man argument. No one said it was.

      As I'm sure several people have pointed out, as OSX becomes more prevalent, you'll see people working harder to develop malware.

      That's quite likely, but doesn't support the conclusion that they will be successful enough to impact the average user.

      And no, I'm not a Windows fanboi. I have several computers with OSes ranging from XP to Haiku, including OSX. To say that a Mac is unable to get a virus is like Hitler saying his army didn't need cold weather gear in Siberia.

      Neither MacOS nor Linux is immune to viruses, but to date the security measures implemented by both OS's have been sufficient to make the threat a non-issue for the vast majority of users. I hypothesize that this has more to do with the fact that Apple and Linux developers lose money when there are significant security issues, while Microsoft, with monopoly influence on the desktop OS market, has less motivation to actually create working solutions. I don't see the malware problem for OS X, Linux, Android, iOS, or really anything other than Windows getting nearly as bad as it is for Windows users today.

    32. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may be interested in the invisible, lightweight, and bulletproof armor I've developed in my basement lab. Since completion, I've never been successfully shot. And, unlike the competition, is blocks headshots too. The key to my success is the extra research I did.

    33. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      You may be interested in the invisible, lightweight, and bulletproof armor I've developed in my basement lab. Since completion, I've never been successfully shot.

      The difference is, there have been attempts to make a propagating OS X worm and virus and none have worked. Further, even some generic attacks on services that OS X shares with other OS's were unable to work on OS X because of the sandboxing. Finally, while you may think features like sandboxing and default settings that have very few exposed services are invisible to you, it just reflects your lack of expertise.

    34. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Trojans do not count. By their very nature they require user interaction to function. These kinds of attacks will always succeed as long as there are users willing to click "Allow" regardless of the OS type involved.

      While trojans are a different discussion from viruses, they are still a fairly solvable problem. I deal with them today by installing software I don't trust in a restricted VM, running the software, examining the changes from outside the VM, and resetting the VM to its default state. This process can and is being automated by OS's using more lightweight but just as restrictive of sandboxes. I also take exception to the idea that users should be presented with an "allow" button. That's an example from a very broken UI Microsoft uses. Users should not be given the option to allow malware free reign to control their computer with an "allow" button, particularly one that has a huge level of false positives and a repetitive, nonspecific uninformative interface.

      virus requires no user interaction. It is designed to replicate and spread autonomously.

      You are mistaken. To qualify as a virus, malware merely has to replicate itself. Viruses that do this autonomously are called "worms".

    35. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      I know that vulnerabilities do not equal viruses, but if you read the link there were several viruses listed as well. I agree that OSX and *NIX is a much more secure platform. No arguments there at all. But people want to say that they are completely bullet proof and the point of my original post was to show they are not. People get offended when someone points out the fact that their special OS is not flawless, like they invented the damn thing, and then lash back like their children were just cussed out. The fact is that each OS serves a purpose and certain ones are better at certain jobs. Not a single one of them is without flaw.

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    36. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      http://www.symantec.com/security_response/threatexplorer/azlisting.jsp?azid=O - looks like there is exactly 17 known ones.

      Thing to really worry about though - a good virus sits in the background quietly collecting info on the user and distributing itself to other machines it comes in contact without anyone knowing.

      Having watched Mac users - they are no better than Windows users in the sense than when the elevate permissions window pops up they type in their password with no hesitation. Never mind the bugs in the core OS that would let malware run as root without anyone knowing and that is probably a more serious issue.

      At least on Windows it says who's bringing up the elevate prompt, puts it on a separate desktop (so malware can't click/key the prompt), and it color codes it for risk - yellow if its not signed - red if its known malicious etc. A good chunk of the malware I've seen on Windows runs in user space, and could be cleaned up with a virus scanner if users couldn't reboot/shutdown their machine without Admin.

      Seriously - most malware notices your trying to scan the disk it shuts down the machine - if MS fixed this - these Fake AV programs would be so much easier to clean up.

    37. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      I know that vulnerabilities do not equal viruses, but if you read the link there were several viruses listed as well.

      Look, please be specific. I followed your link. It's dozens of pages long and contains the word "virus 35 times. The first dozen or so are not referencing any virus that effects OS X. I'm not going to read a whole listing of potential vulnerabilities again, as I've already done several times because that's all anyone seems to be able to link to. (Under some sort of assumption there must be some in there somewhere?)

      But people want to say that they are completely bullet proof and the point of my original post was to show they are not.

      What people? The only people that have mentioned that here so far that I've seen have been people setting up strawman arguments. Who said that?

      People get offended when someone points out the fact that their special OS is not flawless...

      Really? Who? Who here has acted offended when you pointed out their OS isn't flawless. A number of people took exception to the claim that there are viruses in the wild, but that's because for all practical purposes, that doesn't seem to be a supportable statement.

      Really what I see here is a lot more of people who don't really know what they're talking about making the argument that someone claims OS X is perfect and then attacking that claim no one made. I've worked in security for years and you know what, I don't recommend to Mac users that they get active scanning antivirus software because so far misbehaving antivirus software is a bigger risk than malware in the wild. I do recommend they follow safe practices with regard to potential trojans. Should the situation change, it might be that antivirus becomes more useful than a liability, but I don't see that case today. Others implying or stating the opposite here need to back up those claims lest they do more damage than good.

    38. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Longer than 10 years. Last Mac virus I saw in the wild was a Microsoft Word macro virus circa 1993. I'm not even sure that one DID anything, just triggered alerts. Haven't bothered with any antivirus since then, with no problems.

      Not that I'm particularly virus prone. I'm pretty cautious with my Windows boxes, too. Haven't gotten any viruses there, but I DO use AV tools that catch risks which have gotten near my computer (landing on a bad page after a Google search, getting hit with email that I'd probably never open, but AV is catching it right away, etc.)

    39. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      My original post was in reply to someone who wanted an example of a current virus, if you recall. Does that not sound like someone who's saying that it's impossible for a Mac to become infected? I apologize if I'm taking a general statement and turning it into them specifically saying that it is...it's possible I'm sensitive to the claim, but I read /. A LOT, as I'm sure you do, and I see people talk all the time about how superior their distro-of-the-week is to the M$ Nazis out there and I think it's just a bunch of elitist bullshit. I know this is /. and anyone who even thinks about defending Microsoft is a newb clearly in need of a flogging by stuffed-penguin. Like I said before, all OSes have their place, but I constantly see two trains of thought around here; Microsoft vs. *NIX...not many people are right in the middle.

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    40. Re:Macs are still no mans land by antdude · · Score: 1

      What is the best AV software to use in Mac OS X? ClamAV?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    41. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      My original post was in reply to someone who wanted an example of a current virus, if you recall. Does that not sound like someone who's saying that it's impossible for a Mac to become infected?

      No it doesn't. It sounds like someone who doesn't believe viruses are currently spreading that effect the Mac. If someone asked "has someone had hit president Obama in the face with a pie since he was elected," would you interpret that as their belief that it is impossible to hit the president in the face with a pie?

      I read /. A LOT, as I'm sure you do, and I see people talk all the time about how superior their distro-of-the-week is to the M$ Nazis out there and I think it's just a bunch of elitist bullshit.

      I do read Slashdot a lot, but I don't see this kind of claim either. I do see people pointing out various ways in which a distro or OS is superior to others, but that's a pretty useful thing to point out both so people know how things are better and so OS developers are informed about where they are behind. I do see a lot of people writing they would never use a given OS, but that doesn't imply general superiority.

      I know this is /. and anyone who even thinks about defending Microsoft is a newb clearly in need of a flogging by stuffed-penguin.

      I have, numerous times, pointed out a laudable act on behalf of MS or a feature where they are ahead of the curve in OS development. Usually it is fairly well received. Sometimes it sparks debate, but mostly from people going back and forth discussing the state of the art on each OS, something very few people seem to know across platforms.

      Like I said before, all OSes have their place, but I constantly see two trains of thought around here; Microsoft vs. *NIX...not many people are right in the middle.

      So here's the thing, when you have one single company dominating an industry as important and high tech as desktop OS's, well that one company then becomes a gatekeeper for advancement. That is incredibly frustrating to high tech loving geeks such as populate Slashdot. It's especially frustrating when progress slows to such a glacial pace. Frustration and anger with Microsoft and with a government uninterested in competition in the market will be found in almost nay forum for computer geeks. I find that perfectly understandable. At the same time, I try not to let it color my perceptions of the things MS has gotten right over the years and where other OS vendors are still lacking.

    42. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      "Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses."

      Myth? Please point to a current Mac virus.

      Alrescha seems to to be challenging the idea that Macs can get viruses and the assertion that it is a myth that Macs do not get viruses. Stenchwarrior attempted to provide examples that run counter to what he perceived Alrescha's intent to be. You seem intent on attacking the quality of his examples on behalf of Alrescha, so it was only natural that he assume you also are challenging the idea that Macs can get viruses.

      Stenchwarrior is merely attempting to point out that malicious programs "CAN" do damage to Macs, and while you are picking apart his attempt, you do not (at the core) seem to be disagreeing with him, just his specific examples and over the underlying intentions of Alrescha.

      Now I can't speak to any specific examples of people on /. stating that Mac's can't be infected or exploited, but I know that's the impression many Mac users among my friends have, so I wouldn't be surprised to find people on /. that believe the same thing.

    43. Re:Macs are still no mans land by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      "Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses."

      Myth? Please point to a current Mac virus.

      Alrescha seems to to be challenging the idea that Macs can get viruses and the assertion that it is a myth that Macs do not get viruses.

      That's not what he wrote. He challenged the idea that Macs get viruses, not that they can get viruses. Physically, it is of course possible. Proof of concepts have been demonstrated in the lab, mostly to highlight a vulnerability. Realistically, more Mac users were probably struck by lightening over the last decade than were negatively effected by a virus on their Mac. It just doesn't happen. It's important to realize this can change in future. The whole point of this article is Cisco speculating (somewhat speciously) that malware is targeting the Mac and other platforms more instead of Windows.

      ...it was only natural that he assume...

      There seems to be a whole lot of assuming going on. Assuming people mean something other than what they wrote and assuming people believe some argument then put forward and attacked. Assuming that because someone asks for an example of Macs getting viruses that they believe that macs are immune to viruses is NOT a valid assumption. It is a biased assumption.

      Stenchwarrior is merely attempting to point out that malicious programs "CAN" do damage to Macs...

      Except he never wrote that, he just posted links to vulnerabilities and proof of concept code. He never wrote, "hey, while they don't really propagate in the wild, it's possible as demonstrated by this". Instead he responded to a specific request for a virus currently in the wild with a lot of links that only make sense if you are either misinterpreting the original request or are mistaken about the content of the examples you're providing. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was the latter, while making sure to be very clear about why those examples did not match the original request.

      Now I can't speak to any specific examples of people on /. stating that Mac's can't be infected or exploited, but I know that's the impression many Mac users among my friends have...

      Are they computer geeks? If so educate them, it's easy enough. If not, fine, it's close enough to the truth to drive them away from Windows and semi-accuratly describe a difference between the platforms. Anything that moves people off of Windows will only result in better security in the long run.

      ...so I wouldn't be surprised to find people on /. that believe the same thing.

      There's a bi difference between not being surprised and leaping to the conclusion that the people you're responding to hold some belief despite having never stated any such thing... in fact to go so far as making that argument on their behalf as a straw man.

    44. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      I apologize for attempting to assert that your argument in this thread appeared to be the result a misunderstanding.

      I obviously was entirely wrong at reading you, because I had zero expectation of a massive point by point response to what was essentially a, "Hey maybe they meant this instead" response, suggesting that not everyone always phrases things exactly as they mean it. I know that I didn't mean to provoke such a strong reaction, and I'm sorry.

    45. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      "Common myth still spreading around that macs do not have viruses."

      Myth? Please point to a current Mac virus.

      Alrescha seems to to be challenging the idea that Macs can get viruses and the assertion that it is a myth that Macs do not get viruses.

      That's not what he wrote. He challenged the idea that Macs get viruses, not that they can get viruses.

      Did I really need to specify that point? One of the cool things about /. is that you get to have conversations and sometimes debate with highly intelligent people. You clearly are, but nitpicking the definition of "is" makes you sound more like a lawyer than someone debating the ideals and differences behind the different platforms that are available. Someone said what I interpreted as show me a single virus that can be given to a Mac and I gave several examples. They happened to be dormant examples, but they were available at one time, even if they are not now. The point was to show that Mac and, really, all OSes are vulnerable to malware if someone takes the time to make it work. Microsoft happens to be the biggest target because 1) they are the largest target and 2) they are the easiest target because of their open infrastructure, which is exactly what makes them so popular in the first place.

      Unkyjar saw what I was saying and I appreciate that they were bold enough to try and make you see it too.

      --
      Loading...
    46. Re:Macs are still no mans land by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      And before you rip apart my "open infrastructure" line, I don't mean "open source" as I'm sure you're going to correct me on. I just mean that it can be made to do many different things by many different types of code. Hopefully I didn't need to specify that as well.

      --
      Loading...
    47. Re:Macs are still no mans land by twebb72 · · Score: 1

      True.. but the first person to own a fax machine was an idiot.

      Ergo, only a idiot would have antivirus on a mac.

      Ergo, only an idiot would buy a Mac

    48. Re:Macs are still no mans land by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

      Macs run so fast that it can swallow a bloatware. Go Norton!

    49. Re:Macs are still no mans land by antdude · · Score: 1

      Norton and bloatware? That's not the best then. :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  10. You already proved you're wrong (ANDROID = Linux) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Will they please target the Linux platform so we can prove once and for all to all the Windows lovers that the underlying architecture protects better than the Windows design?" - by Lumpy (12016) on Thursday January 20, @10:13AM (#34939742) Homepage

    ANDROID TROJAN:

    http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952

    Since ANDROID is Linux, you've already proven yourself wrong...

    What's happening on ANDROID phones (and ANDROID is a Linux derived OS), per the URL above, is only a "portent of things to come", IF Linux ever manages to get more users than does Windows on the PC platform.

    I.E.-> Malware makers/hackers-crackers (etc.)? They're like pickpockets!

    E.G.-> Pickpockets don't just victimize a "crowd of one" or a few only, but instead, they opt to go to train stations, subways, crowded malls or streets (where a LOT of possible victims are, so they have greater "attack surface area" - this is like Windows on PC's: MORE USERS = MORE ATTACK SURFACE AREA from a SINGLE CODEBASE FOR ATTACK... & THAT is why Windows is more attacked (more users, period, by far)).

    Microsoft's getting their "bootcamp" here, their training & fixing up points of attack vs. these malware makers... Linux has YET to see that, & if it ever does? Same shit will happen to it, as is happening to Windows lately!

    E.G.-> MacOS X, once it started getting more users? It too, began to be more attacked, period... the same will hold true for Linux, mark my words (IF, again, it EVER makes it to the "most used/top #1 spot").

    APK

    P.S.=> After all: It's NOT like Linux's design precludes its webbrowsers &/or email programs that use HTML from using javascript, with its SAME BUSTED "DOM" & ALL as it is on Windows (same on Linux), & that's where the majority of attacks come from nowadays - attacking weak, scriptable apps (Office Suites &/or Webbrowsers + email come to mind, quickly)... apk

  11. Deep in the Microsoft War Room: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Mr. Balmer, we must not allow a malware gap!"

  12. trust exploitation? by andrewagill · · Score: 1

    Are they talking about confidence games? As in, ``It's called a confidence game. Why? Because you give me your confidence? No. Because I give you mine''?

    I'm not sure why Cisco feels the need to invent a new term for something that has been commonly understood since 1849...

  13. To be more precise : Which Linux ? by DrYak · · Score: 2

    Yeah, but just one question :

    Will they please target the Linux platform

    Which of the gazillion of different flavour of Linux should they target ?~
    And on which CPU : the traditional Intel-derived architecture ? The ARM on which it seems to be selling like hot cakes ?~
    Oh, you meant that diversity is actually part of the Linux' strategy to be more resistant ?!?

    More seriously :
    Serious software developer are constantly complaining that it's hard to write closed-source binary blobs that target the whole Linux nebula.
    (As opposed to open-source, which is easier to custom patch and compile, and can be adapted to various flavour by the distribution package authors or 3rd parties).
    And that's regular software which is supposed to only exhibit normal and usual behaviour.

    Now just imagine the mess that would be trying to write trojans that have to rely on exploits and other dirty hacks, in order to gain the sweet "Root" privilege and to stay stealthy.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  14. 2011, year of the mac virus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2011, year of the mac virus!

    Come on people, you knew it was coming.

    Now its going to come like a porn star, spraying all its infected goodness all over apples.

  15. The internets disagree with you... by denzacar · · Score: 1
    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:The internets disagree with you... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      From your own link:

      Like Unix systems, Linux implements a multi-user environment where users are granted specific privileges and there is some form of access control implemented. To gain control over a Linux system or cause any serious consequence to the system itself, the malware would have to gain root access to the system.

      Rick Moen, an experienced Linux system administrator, says "[That argument] ignores Unix's dominance in a number of non-desktop specialties, including Web servers and scientific workstations. A virus/trojan/worm author who successfully targeted specifically Apache httpd Linux/x86 Web servers would both have an extremely target-rich environment and instantly earn lasting fame, and yet it doesn't happen."

      Because they are predominantly used on mail servers which may send mail to computers running other operating systems, Linux virus scanners generally use definitions for, and scan for, all known viruses for all computer platforms.

      The use of software repositories significantly reduces any threat of installation of malware, as the software repositories are checked by maintainers, who try to ensure that their repository is malware-free. Subsequently, to ensure safe distribution of the software, md5 checksums are made available. These make it possible to reveal modified versions that may have been introduced by e.g. hijacking of communications using a man-in-the-middle attack or via a redirection attack such as ARP or DNS poisoning. Careful use of these digital signatures provides an additional line of defense, which limits the scope of attacks to include only the original authors, package and release maintainers and possibly others with suitable administrative access, depending on how the keys and checksums are handled.

    2. Re:The internets disagree with you... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      From that same link (just pointing out, not making a counter-argument):

      Linux is as vulnerable to malware that tricks the user into installing it through social engineering as other operating systems. In December 2009 a malicious waterfall screensaver was discovered that contained a script that used the infected Linux PC in denial-of-service attacks.

      No OS is immune to PEBCAK attacks.

      And again...
      Parent claims no malware exists for OS X and Linux "in the real world" - kinda underlining the PEBCAK issue.

      I'm not saying that there is a same or even comparable number of malware and (currently known) exploitable vulnerabilities on OS X, Linux and Windowses.
      I'm just saying that the parent is an example of a ID-10T error due to his silly non-argumented claims.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  16. Identifying phone viruses by failedlogic · · Score: 1

    At least on my Windows PC, I have enough experience and knowledge dealing with Viruses and such that I have a reasonably good idea if my computer is infected. Common sense, using the right apps and such help reduce the threat.

    I don't have the experience or knowledge of handling this with my Smartphone (Blackberry). I'm more concerned given the sensitivity of the data that I exchange on this platform - personal and business calls as well as e-mail that I don't know what adequate protections to use on the phone. I've disabled Javascript on the phone for web browsing, don't access Flash content and I've only installed a few official apps from BB or dependable vendors.

    What's worse if the general public that aren't very Tech or computer savvy. Presumably they are just as vulnerable or perhaps more so. My cousin who's a programmer has installed over 50 apps on his iPhone. I've read of people installing 100's of apps from the iStore or ditto with Jailbreaked phones.

    I'd be curious to know how difficult it would be to get rid of a virus or spyware on common smartphones since the OS isn't always reinstallable and I'm not sure if 'resetting' the phone to default values might install the original OS.

  17. That is strictly the execution part of the scam... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    And it has been fine-tuned towards the desired victim.

    If the scam was targeting people running ultra custom mods derived from the Species 8472, they would simply make specific adjustments.
    And only in that last execution part of the scam. The entire play up to that point stays the same.

    And besides the fact that "running ultra custom mods derived from the Species 8472" relies on security through obscurity, let us not forget that Species 8472 were defeated through use of malware.
    I.e. Borg nanoprobes specifically programmed to mimic their "electrochemical signatures, so that they could evade detection by Species 8472's immune system".

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  18. Away from Windows-based PCs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...to Windows-based devices. Wonderful! \o/

  19. OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    You're not seriously using the Google Fight argument are you?

    https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=the+sky+is+red

    There you go, the sky is red, 216 MILLION Google results confirm it.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by mesanchez · · Score: 0

      Did you even check out the links?

    2. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Yes they are a search for "Linux malware" and one for "OSX malware", and the wikipedia page listing the small number of Linux viruses that have ever existed.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by mesanchez · · Score: 0

      so acutally there is malware for linux and mac, why do you keep saying there isn't?

    4. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by 0123456 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      so acutally there is malware for linux and mac, why do you keep saying there isn't?

      Anyone can write malware for Linux: writing, say, a key-logger that looks for credit card numbers is essentially trivial.

      The problem is getting it onto PCs you don't control, which is vastly simpler in Windows than Linux because Windows has vastly more security flaws by design.

    5. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I didn't say there isn't any at all. Just none in current circulation, and only a tiny handful have ever existed.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    6. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by genner · · Score: 1

      You're not seriously using the Google Fight argument are you?

      https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=the+sky+is+red

      There you go, the sky is red, 216 MILLION Google results confirm it.

      It is red sometimes.

    7. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      He didn't say there wasn't malware for linux, he said there wasn't "malware infestations in the wild" on linux computers.

    8. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by AmonTheMetalhead · · Score: 1

      Also, windows has a vast army of clueless users

    9. Re:OH NOES GOOGLE FIGHT!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the link you were looking for is:

      http://images.google.com/images?q=red%20sky&biw=1124&bih=691

      Oh wait, that would sort of invalidate your point...

  20. Soo... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    For a virus to be acceptable for use on an Apple computer it must be current? Talk about elitist.

    Also, doesn't your computer have internet on it?

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  21. Mandatory makes it bad by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Apple has been heavily criticized for it's app store restrictions. But to me all these moves are a great idea.

    For me it's a great idea, as long as it's not mandatory.

    In Apple's case, it's bad because there's no other choice. You only have the walled garden mode. And for everything else, you have to rely on exploits to root your very own phone.

    In HP/Palm Pre & WebOS's case it's good because out-of-the-box you have 2 choice :
    - Joe six pack will happily use the phone in its current state, the walled garden protecting him from the dangers of the homebrew world.
    - Advanced users will simply type a specific and documented command and switch the phone into "dev mode" enabling them to install other software, add new repositories, etc. If anything gets broken beyond any recognition, java software is available to reset the phone to factory default.

    I understand the need of a walled garden. I appreciate that most company try to provide one, but I also require that the final decision should be left to the user.
    I voted with my wallet, my smartphone has no Apple logo on it.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  22. OH NOES A STRAW MAN!!! by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Google servers heat up the straw in the straw man, until it catches fire and BURNS.

    Also, you lose 10.000 internets.
    Forever.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:OH NOES A STRAW MAN!!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Your argument that my argument is a straw man is a straw man. Many Google results for something does not mean that thing is common, correct, or even exists at all.

      By creating this recursive strawman loop you are sucked into the straw man universe, where you are a sex slave to splintery straw men for the rest of eternity.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:OH NOES A STRAW MAN!!! by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      That is, until the Wizard gives him a brain.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  23. True, I do not use an anti-virus program by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    however I am not one to open e-mails from people I do not know, nor am I one who would just type in his system password when prompted.

    Unfortunately based on several local user group meetings I know a lot of people who would do both. First and foremost because they are utterly convinced in their superiority to PC users and OS X's immunity to viruses, after all if they harm OS X Apple would provide a virus program.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  24. Re:You already proved you're wrong (ANDROID = Linu by 0123456 · · Score: 1

    ANDROID TROJAN

    No OS can completely protect itself from dumb users installing trojans, though Linux can do that a heck of a lot better than Windows can (e.g. if you have SELinux configured so that the 'Natalie Portman Hot Grits Screensaver' can't access files that a screensaver shouldn't be able to).

  25. Apple phones have a Dev mode as well by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    Developers can sign and install apps on their iphones as well.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Apple phones have a Dev mode as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Developers can $ign and install apps on their iphones as well.

  26. Finally! by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    The Year of the Linux Desktop!

  27. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The graph on page 33 of the Cisco report calls BS too but the guy writing the report didn't bother looking at his chart or the data.

    Shoddy, shoddy research.

  28. More ANDROID exploits fresh on the way... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Linux can do that a heck of a lot better than Windows can (e.g. if you have SELinux configured so that the 'Natalie Portman Hot Grits Screensaver' can't access files that a screensaver shouldn't be able to)" - by 0123456 (636235) on Thursday January 20, @01:08PM (#34942160)

    I think not: After all - Linux didn't even HAVE SeLinux, initially & FOR YEARS (until the NSA "bolted it on" onto Linux distros later), & secondly? Windows NT-based OS, natively built in, already have most ALL of what SeLinux has, & before IT DID!

    Now, additionally, IF you'd like to see more of what it can do, & how to use it? See here (any of the 15 or so forums sites that guide on securing Windows of modern varieties that I wrote are on, essentially):

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22HOW+TO+SECURE+Windows+2000%2FXP%22&go=&form=QBRE

    ---

    "No OS can completely protect itself from dumb users installing trojans" - by 0123456 (636235)
    on Thursday January 20, @01:08PM (#34942160)

    That's true, especially if users disregard warning messages & "just click OK", but, that's what UAC in Windows, & Linux sudo are for... you can only hope that users pay heed to said warnings from those methods (or others like WOT in FireFox for another example, or from software firewalls rules etc./et al), & get used to "computing by 'least privelege'" as time passes...

    APK

    P.S.=> Lastly, in closing, per my subject-line above? See here:

    Soundminder Android Trojan Hears Credit Cards:

    http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/01/20/1534236/Soundminder-Android-Trojan-Hears-Credit-Cards

    More exploits of ANDROID OS (a Linux variant) are on the way... you can BANK on it! apk

  29. Makes sense in light of Stuxnet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The stuxnet attack shows that exploits aren't only good tools for scammers- they're viable weapons of war. Stuxnet sends a clear message that other countries would be wise to get off the Windows OS. To make a chess analogy, the Windows OS is a powerful chess piece, a queen. It was used in the attack against the Iranian Nuclear facilities. Now, it's off the board because an adversary shouldn't get fooled twice in a row. So, in the "Spy vs. Spy" battle, I'm sure that planning goes on to be prepared to attack whatever will replace Windows. The allegations against OpenBSD's ipsec already call that into question. Linux? Mac?

    p.s. It's clear that the four zero-day attack vectors included in Stuxnet required some serious work, or else inside knowledge.

  30. Except... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Your argument that my argument is a straw man is a straw man.

    You do realize that is the equivalent of saying "Well, your argument that I'm making a straw man argument sucks"?

    Many Google results for something does not mean that thing is common, correct, or even exists at all.

    And there you go again. Also, putting words in my mouth.

    I was not citing Google results as correct, common or actual.

    Nor was I making an illogical claim like "Sky is red" (which in on itself is true every day around sunset, it is just that most of the day Earth's sky has another color) and then using the shear number of results as a counter-argument.
    I.e... "Creating the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."

    By using results that, might I add, mostly have no connection with the "Sky is red" claim.

    Why does the sky sometimes seem to be pink and red?
    Answers.com - Why does the sky sometimes seem to be pink and red
    Meteorology and Weather question: Why does the sky sometimes seem to be pink and red?

    Is “Red sky at night, sailor's delight,Red sky in morning ...
    Is the old adage “Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky in morning, sailor's warning” true, or is it just an old wives' tale?

    Red sky at night
    Red sky at night - the meaning and origin of this saying.

    The Sky Is Red (work by Berto) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
    There were sad tales of lost war by Giuseppe Berto (Il cielo è rosso [1947; The Sky Is Red] and Guerra in camicia nera [1955; “A Blackshirt's War”])

    Red Sky Restaurant & Lounge - Faneuil Hall Marketplace Restaurant ...
    Serves eclectic cuisine downtown. Includes a menu and pictures.

    Why is the sky Blue?
    When we look up at the sky, the red cones respond to the small amount of scattered red light, but also less strongly to orange and yellow wavelengths

    I was simply pointing to results of a search containing two words.
    I can't really control what comes up on Google when you do that search, now can I?
    It could have just as well been a series of articles saying that there is NO malware for OS X or Linux.
    I did not ask for a specific result to my query, nor did I imply any kind of relation between the terms.

    I simply asked Google "Hey Mr. Google, what do you have to say about these two topics?".
    Feel free to go and flame Google cause you find their results to be not objective enough.

    Also, before you go all "No you didn't", this short course might help you with making the distinction between an argument and a contradiction.

    By creating this recursive strawman loop you are sucked into the straw man universe, where you are a sex slave to splintery straw men for the rest of eternity.

    Terribly sorry, but your original straw man WAS burned by Google.
    But if you feel the need to restate it again and support it with another one.. well... you just said what you believe happens in such cases.

    Not that I'm saying that it is, but while I do know that your beliefs are actually silly superstition - it is not my place to forbid you from believing in them.
    But I do reserve the right to point out your fallacy.

    *points at monitor*
      Nelson
    Haw-Haw!
      /Nelson

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  31. criminals want value / ease by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

    Servers running IIS or Apache with admins behind them are too much work for criminals. There are currently Java exploitation kits on the black market that nail users every time. That is just from users having updates off, not new exploits.

  32. Cybercriminals Shifting Focus To... by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    Siemans!

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  33. Windows had the bigger bang for the buck by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

    Since MS Windows has the largest share of the operating systems in the world, hacker just need to one set of code that will work on 90% of the machines of the world would least amount of work for largest "spread" of systems in the world. Also hackers has taken advantage so many of these MS Windows systems are un-patch and don't have any type anti-malware program so they just exploit bugs in MS Windows. Finally, hacker has created so much Trojan horse or hacked legitimate programs for the MS Windows environment and so many people look for "free" programs on the internet so hacks just put these "free" Trojan horse programs and the hacker take over the MS Wiindows system.
    However, now most hacker have concentrating on cross site scripts issues in web and other network based attacks. Also other operating systems like the Mac or Linux give a new challenge to these hackers for them to exploit.

  34. Security Model by scurvyj · · Score: 0

    Um, sorry to be the bore at the party but..... Linux has a working security model.

    I know m$ have worked hard to make everyone forget that they don't, but there it is.

    So while Windows CE dies a death along with Symbian, its pretty much a case of GoodLuckWithThat to these guys as far as the other OS's go.

    Apps (and stupid things like Ruby and Java) can be exploited, but they can also be restarted, locked down, and fixed, whereas m$'s crashware can't.

    QED really.

  35. Re:Thank God....for FTUs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No kidding. FTUs should be a standard performance metric for all IT professionals. "How many FTUs did you earn today?"

  36. paying for an already present functionnality by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The apple way requires you to pay (the iPhone developper license to upload code into device) to have access to a functionality (running arbitrary code) which was already present in the first place, back when you bought your device. It requires you to agree to restrictive license (which theoretically could limit what you're allowed to do as a developer). And forces you to acquire specific and expensive platforms (the iOS SDK online runs on Intel Macs).

    And require every one in the community of non-garden-walled-application users to do the same (pay + license + hardware), just for the same privileges.

    All-in-all, the Apple Dev solution is geared toward small and big software labels. Not toward individual swapping homebrew around.

    See the results : there is not a large user base paying the "developer tax" just to be able to load use and swap around homebrew software. Most of the homebrew users are gravitating toward jailbreaking/rooting the phone. Tell me when there's a massive community emerging that swaps homebrew software around using the (paid for) dev mode. Tell me when this community can install its own package manager to access 3rd party homebrew repositories beside the default Apple AppStore. (I bet you Jthe developer license forbids you to create and deploy software that enable users to download and install software from outside the AppStore - it's either buy your SteveJobs-approved iFart application from the official store, or compile your rebel app yourself on your expensive intel mac and upload it after paying for the right to do it).

    Meanwhile : webos have the dev mode accessible out-of-the-box. As in "you get the smartphone out of its box, drop a sim in, put the battery, log in, and just type the command". Everyone motivated and wanting to access homebrew can do it. No need to pay for an extra, no need to agree a restrictive license, and no special hardware requirement.

    Result: there is an active community sharing and using homebrew, without any hacking required. There are lots of simple point'n'click cross-platform tools to help install user selected 3rd party software (java tools running on Intel Linux/Mac/Windows). There are special package manager (Preware) which give access to additional 3rd party homebrew applications directly from within the phone. (So, once you install Preware, you aren't even tethered to a PC anymore, you can get your fix of homebrew directyl over WiFi/3G). And no special license signing is required along the way (you bought the device, you do whatever pleases you with the device, as long as its legal where you live).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]