Slashdot Mirror
New Red Dwarf Series Threatened By the Twitter Era
An anonymous reader writes "The announcement that the new series of Red Dwarf is likely to be shot in front of a studio audience, which hasn't happened for the show since 1998, has made one of the show's actors wary of the practicality of it. Commenting on his blog, Robert Llewellyn, who plays servile robot Kryten in the hit British SF comedy show notes: 'The fear among the producers now is that it's impossible to imagine an audience of around 400 people at the recording of a TV show like Red Dwarf, where nobody does a bit of a hint on Twitter, or sneaks a picture on Facebook or posts a bit of badly shot video on YouTube.'"
This is why we can't have nice things.
Those that want the show spoiled will have the show spoiled, those that don't (which you can be assured is the majority of viewers) won't view any spoilers.
Why are you even concerned?
captcha: sequel
How far into retardoland can these fucks get? It's like "oh no, artists can't do tours anymore since anyone can post their performance online".
fucktard is a tenderhearted description
Even more shocking is that the new series might be doomed because of a sensationalist headline on slashdot!
The fact that they are doing the new series is worthy enough news, you don't need to build up a non-existing story to promote it. Even the summary shows what a crock the headline is when it says that one of the show's actors was "wary of the practicality of it". If it was such a concern, then they could just not film it in front of an audience.
Would it be plausible to record in a Faraday Cage or equivalent, negating both cell phone and internet device access for the duration of the recording?
I can understand the appeal of actors being able to react subtly to the audience - but I always found the blurts of audience sounds annoying - ESPECIALLY in shows with canned laughter or artificially "enhanced" audience reactions.
Red Dwarf seems like it would be better with a smaller audience of insiders anyway - comedians playing to other comedians are always filthier, funnier, and less self-censoring, and I think that would be a better result.
Ryan Fenton
All Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube posts will do is generate extra hype for the show at no extra cost to the producers. No one is going to watch a shitty YouTube cell phone capture instead of the actual show. Free advertising is always good and word of mouth is extremely valuable. If someone sees a commercial for a TV show they just file that away with all the other advertising they ignore. If they get the pitch from someone they know or better someone with similar interests they're way more likely to pay attention. If I was making a TV show I'd beg my audience to talk about it on every channel they had available.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
five extras in Spiderman.. so no worries there.
I am very cross. You shouldn't have run away from me. What are we going to do with those twitter posters?
I have an idea, but who would clean up the mess?
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Red Dwarf is a classic Sci Fi series and something I grew up on and still enjoy today, but it is clearly a series that doesn't work any more. They tried to revive it before when they did a mini series and it was by far the worst episode(s) of the entire thing.
People always cry for remakes and updated versions of older TV series, but some things just don't work in the current climate. Doctor Who is a prime example of a TV series that doesn't work in the modern climate, so when it was brought back it was massively retoned to suit modern TV. But Red Dwarf can't be retoned, when they tried it, it just didn't work. Some times you just need a budget of £10 an episode and a dude wearing a spandex suit rather than massive CGI scenes and unlimited funds.
Red Dwarf is an all time classic and something I hope anything I spawn will get to watch and enjoy as I did, but it feels like the actors have no careers any more (especially Craig Charles, who is now badly dubbing Japanese game shows for cable channels) and just want to milk sucess 30 years ago.
I like muppets.
The WWF (now WWE) has had to deal with this for ages, as their shows are often broadcast days after they're actually performed.
Their solution? Do jack shit.
The fans who don't want to be spoiled, don't look up the spoilers.
The fans who do, do.
Nobody really loses out unless someone on the cast has an unexplained need for secrecy. This isn't Survivor.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
This is how I get to see the Daily Show five hours early each day: all those audience- created YouTube uploads.
Not everyone reads every twitter or is friends with the guy on facebook. Not everyone will see the youTube clip (which can be taken down quickly anyway). Even if they do it's not going to stop them from watching the show.
Once you show a show to 400 people, the cat's out of the bag. Any one of them might know or even be a TV journalist.
You've been Krytered. I suggest two hours W.O.O.
'The fear among the producers now is that it's impossible to imagine an audience of around 400 people at the recording of a TV show like Red Dwarf, where nobody does a bit of a hint on Twitter, or sneaks a picture on Facebook or posts a bit of badly shot video on YouTube.'
Wow just wow . How about adapting and embracing new technology instead of moving a step backwards ? This confirms still, how old fashioned some in the entertainment industry think. E.g. why not offer a 'live' showing per stream in HD ? If it is a good show and not some _crap_ then why are they so afraid of twitter, youtube, etc etc. Actually if enough people talk positive about it isn't that a bonus for the show? There are many possibilities how to adapt to new models but instead of thinking about the positives of using new models, these types concentrate on the new negatives.
So now live viewers will most likely have tight security before entering the viewing. Leave all electronic devices with security pick up after show etc (same old story). Because some decision makers can't think outside the box.
Until they find out that everyone's going to get it via bit torrent, anyway.
Also, have these people never heard of America? We get british stuff ages after it airs in the UK. And the UK often gets our stuff ages later. It's not like any of this is new.
They could always just fill the seats with robots.
Then at the flip of an executive-controlled switch, they could all burst into cold, robotic laughter. Even better, special appearances from Robot Wars contestants could make their way into the program to give the audience something to relate to. Kryten might even end up the next Justin Bieber.
I don't know what kind of time is needed between a show being shot, the networks needing the content, and the actual airing, but if this is such a big issue, why couldn't they drop the "live studio" part and screen the episode for the audience shortly (i.e. days) before its premier, record the audience noise then, and tack it on?
It obviously "just wouldn't be the same", but if you're that worried about it...
(Which apparently they aren't, because according to the summary, the only one known to be worried is one of the actors.)
sometimes it's hard to avoid spoilers, especially when perusing other info related to the franchise, the kind of stuff that big fans would care to look at.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
How about, I don't know, getting rid of one of the single most annoying thing about British comedies. The damn studio audience. I swear they bus in the most idiotic people around for them. I've heard the people involved with I.T. Crowd mentioning that they have to give a lecture to the audience to try not laughing at anything too dumb. In particular I remember hearing someone mention being exasperated because the audience would laugh at toilets. Not doing anything with a toilet, just, apparently, the fact that a toilet could exist.
Everything will be taken away from you.
Big deal, think of it as pre-release publicity, for free. As long as you have an audience there will be leaks.
As to the show itself, even though I thought the old cast was fantastic, go for a new one. Obviously base it on the original British version, not that horrible American version that never got released.
And as a small note, even though I loved the show, that last thing they did,"Back to Earth", was horrible and should be forgotten with as much prejudice as possible.
Whenever they reboot, respin, retcon, or remake something I love, I'm usually just happier watching what I love. The original Red Dwarf episodes are amazing. If a recombobulation ever does come to be, have a watch party and pop in the classic.
of course, Red Dwarf is a TV show and not a band, but I'm sure you wanted to point out something really interesting with your comparison.
"DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
Just borrow a TSA squad - complete with embarrassing scanner - from the USA. That'll fix it. Leave your guns AND your gadgets (and your privacy) at the door, buddy!
He's a likeable chap, but not the sharpest droid in the box. To wit, he's rabidly in favour of electric vehicles, to the point where he accuses anyone pointing out the obvious flaws with current vehicles - production costs, bad and reducing range, battery recycling issues, and that the vast majority of the electricity still comes from fossil source - as being biased shills.
So, well intentioned fellow, but rather superficial in the thinking department.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I suppose the difference is that a gig is the "finished product" and therefore by posting your phone's footage you are kind-of ruining it to some extent for certain audience groups (although most probably go to see good bands for the live experience itself). With a TV show recording, at least with how they usually record them in the UK, the audience experience is often very disconnected to the finished product, with things out of sequence, stopping and starting, seating view rather than camera view and of course the finessing / effects added later. With a comedy it can be an entertaining experience in itself, but I don't think it's close enough to the aired show to spoil that too much as a whole?
And yet The IT Crowd somehow manages to survive being shot in front of an audience of geeks.
Uh, don't watch the spoilers?
As long as they are not posted on the 8 o-clock news or broadcasted on the radio, I would call them teasers, not spoilers.
The types of people that will read about the episodes on twitter or watch terrible videos from the audiance on youtube are the same types of people that will watch an episode 15x so they can come to work and annoy me with sad quotes. Then they'll buy your show on DVD, the "Editors edition" DVD, the "Extended cuts" DVD and then the box set.
Use that to create buzz and get people more excited about the whole thing.
Yet another example of someone not getting the Internet. Nothing to see here, move along.
If they are so concerned about Spoilers, then why not do it as live television in front of a live audience? Or are modern series so stuck on special effects and multiple takes, that this can't be done like a stage play or vaudeville? Gee, it might even be "different."
I ended up watching Star Trek 5 twice because I was sure I'd never seen it and just could not remember what happened in it. I still can't remember anything at all about it. It must have been pretty bad because I can still remember the Paris and Janeway amphibian sex episode from Voyager which is pretty close to the bottom of the barrel.
I'm afraid, as a Brit, I am now legally required to murder you.
1) For liking Monty Python after the 70's have passed.
2) For linking Monty Python to English humour.
3) For thinking that any modern UK comedy show follows Monty Python.
Monty Python was "funny" in the 70's because it was outrageous. Their three worst sketches were the most outrageous and the ones that everyone remembers. 99% of what they produced was absolute shite. They are not, in and of themselves, funny any more anyway. The films? Pah. Basically designed to be outrageous / controversial with a few good lines thrown in. Follow the example of XKCD who understand this: http://xkcd.com/16/ Anyone caught with the words "Ni", "Very Naughty Boy" or "It's dead" should be shot on sight - it's like schoolkids that think they're cool because they have a designer jacket that ALL the schoolkids are wearing. Few UK people remember MP, fewer discuss them out of anything more than nostalgia, and even fewer think they are "English" humour.
What you fail to miss is that Monty Python is the exact OPPOSITE of the proper English humour. That's why it was funny at the time. Proper English comedy has nobody doing weird things. It's mostly sitcoms or standup in perfectly ordinary scenarios (e.g. a shopkeeper in a shop, a market trader on a stall, etc.). If it's "surreal", chances are it comes from the crap, outrageous side of English humour (e.g. Little Britain, etc.). However, things like Red Dwarf, Blackadder (Series 2 onwards), Only Fools & Horses (historically, but too many re-runs), etc. are funny not because of the situation, or because of slapstick, or because of "weird stuff" - the comedy is mostly background and almost all of it in simple dialogue between two people. A "newer" example would be Not Going Out with Lee Mack and Tim Vine but you'd have to watch several series to get into it, especially if you have trouble with the accents. It can't be written down or recited or told to people, because it's about inflection, and facial expression, and intangible stuff, but if it is funny to someone it's because they've SEEN it and are reminded of their reaction to it at the time. It's as much the comedian delivering the line as the comedy itself - this is why Rowan Atkinson is a comedy genius and Michael Palin (despite being in the original Monty Python line-up) films documentaries about travel. John Cleese *can* "get it", especially now, but it's more Bond-film-style humour in his case, not one-man-on-his-own.
Any fan of British comedy will instantly recognise things like these clips below but they are ONLY funny if you've actually seen the joke, delivered first in its original form, in its entirety, beforehand:
Red Dwarf, while on "Blue Alert": "Red alert sir? Are you entirely sure? It does mean changing the bulb."
Only Fools and Horses (while picking up girls in a bar): "You've got to impress 'em, talk about money" , "Yeah? I found one of those old five-pound notes the other day."
The Two Ronnies: "Four candles?" "There you are: four candles." "No, no, no, FOUR CANDLES" "Well, there you are, four candles." "NO, handles for forks."
Otherwise, it's just a bad Christmas-cracker joke.
Chances are, as a "yank", you've probably never seen anything truly British and actually funny, because you don't import them (only the crap). The US pilot of Red Dwarf was a travesty because the US networks wanted so many changes it wasn't funny any more - seriously go hunt down one episode of Red Dwarf and the US pilot and then watch them one after another - and that was AFTER a revolt including script re-write by the only original cast member to still be involved in the US pilot by that point.
You also need to give anything funny at least 4 episodes of your time. It takes me that long to "get" things like Friends, or Frasier (yuck!), or Just Shoot Me, or Ally McBeal (and you accuse us of weird stuff?) or anything else that's ever been available over here and
Honestly, surely it can't just be me who thought the audience laughter canned or not was the worst thing about Red Dwarf by far.
Shoot it without an audience, and don't add any recorded laughter either.
Solves both problems.
You're right.
You DID say 'fail to miss' though which I smirked at ;)
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
The people watching are fans the people seeking out the sneak peeks, virals, bloopers, etc are also fans. Its not like they are going to loose anything by letting this stuff get out. Most fan sites are good about hiding "spoilers" for those that don't want to know..and for those that do all it does is generate hype and buzz...which usually is something niche programming clamors for.
Personally, as a Canadian, I enjoy the surreal British humour alongside the "proper" humour. Stuff like Monty Python and The Mighty Boosh get equal laughs as Yes Prime Minister and The IT Crowd.
To disown the surreal and silly just because it goes against a standard is idiocy. Some of the most memorable and revolutionary things were purposefully done against the standard, very much so for art and music too. Monty Python laid the groundwork for generations of comedians. (Especially Canadian comedians.)
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
The tautology club is the tautology club!
Same purpose though. It is entertainment. Personally, I don't get it. Isn't it like saying "our show is so lame, all we have is what happens next, you wouldn't watch it twice".
I tend to think the twitter and spoilers etc can only help them. That is, unless they don't want more exposure, and potentially more people watching. A few spoilers (unless you call "it was horrible, don't waste your time" a spoiler) has never detracted from my enjoyment of a show, not convinced me not to watch it.
I think this is an example of "just because you can worry about it, doesn't mean that its a real problem".
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
What the producers don't realize (or don't want to acknowledge) is that these sort of "leaks" just drive demand for the product (show). They need to get their head out of the sand - this stuff is going to hit the Internet anyway, so they might as well embrace it.
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
Jokes can be badly spoiled if the "pointe" (can't remember the english wordfor that) is revealed beforehand, and Red Dwarf is mostly about jokes. In case you haven't seen it yet, Queeg500 is Holly playing prank. Other TV Shows, in particular those with an overall storyarch, and movies in general can be hurt by spoilers (thus the "Here be spoiler" titles at imdb). By the way, Wash dies in the end and River takes his place, Darth Vader is actually Luke and Leia's father and the three knocks come from Donna's Father. Spoilers are killing the fun for many people. On the other hand, I don't think fans of the show will read spoilers beforehand anyway.
"DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
I must be missing the point because I don't understand why this is such a big problem for Red Dwarf and not for any of the many other sitcoms that are recorded in front of an audience.
But there's a significant difference - English humour is NOT about the jokes, it's about the delivery. A cutting remark inserted at exactly the right time, after the perfect amount of pause, in the middle of a quite normal conversation, that takes people several seconds to realise they've been insulted - that's a key sign of an English comedy.
English comedy is not-funny with an English accent. Got it.
And then please look at the shit you export, too.
Room 101 logic: "we export shitty comedies because we can."
tl;dr: British Imperialism applied to Sense of Humor.
You go on and on about smart/clever humor and then give a "yuck!" to Frasier?
You probably need to re-read your own post and follow your own advice. Frasier's mostly incredible, exactly in the background, character-driven, inflection sort of way you've gone on ad nauseum about.
What Would Sutekh Do?
How much damage to the show's popularity can a Twitter post or a Facebook picture do? If anything, they're running a rick of one of the "badly shot videos" going viral and 25 million people tuning in to see what it supposed to look like during the actual episode.
Bow before me, for I am root.
punchline
...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
I'm afraid, as a Brit, I find your post to be such an embarrassment to our nation that I must ask you go into a quiet room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver, and do the right thing.
Surreal and nonsensical humour requires that you enjoy the "different", are not so concerned with what is "proper", and don't need at least 4 episodes of preparatory material before you can "get" the joke. Don't criticise what you can't understand. Let's take a brief tour of exaggeration, silliness, farce and slapstick in British comedy:
18th century: Jonathan Swift writes about midgets and giants to satirise the pomposity of Brits obsessed with what is "proper".
19th century: Gilbert & Sullivan based entire plots on ideas like a fully grown pirate being only 5 years old, having been born on Feb 29th.
20th century: in the 50s, The Goon Show goes surreal, blazing the path 18 years before Python. Spike Milligan is famous both for being surreal and for writing funny books which do not need to be acted out to be funny, and Peter Sellers is famous for his over-the-top characters. The Two Ronnies relied upon "stupid costumes, over-exaggerated characters [and] nonsensical situations" for 16 years. Eric Morecambe, also drawing in many millions of viewers with Ernie Wise for 15 years, was famous for slapstick.
We're now in the 21st century. We still have several of The Goodies, another surreal 70s show, as regulars on I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue in its 54th series, with guests such as the ridiculous and surreal Ross Noble. How much more bloody "proper" and "English" can you get than Radio Four on a Sunday afternoon?
It's about time to get down from your ivory high chair and catch up with the past few centuries of what us Brits think is funny. Don't be the guy giving the rest of us a reputation for having a stick up our arse.
There's at least one major TV show that is done in front of a live studio audience. Saturday Night Live seems to do fine despite YouTube, Twitter, etc.
Honestly, I can't see how this is going to work. Are they bringing back the old cast or starting over with a new one? is it going to be the same story following "Back To Earth" or a complete reboot like the recent "Star Trek" feature film versus the TOS version?
If it is a set of new characters, who are they... Lister's kids, a Rimmer Jr created by Rimmer and instructed to activate in 20 years, cloned versions of the cat, only younger, with kryten left to baby sit them all? And what about holly... crashed, hologrammed like Rimmer was or replaced by Kryten as Red Dwarf's main computer?
Personally, I think Red Dwarf needs to stay dead. The entire series is on NetFlix now if I get the urge to watch it again, and I doubt the series could survive in the same context it did in the 90's. Hell, just look at how tame The Simpsons has gotten in the last 20 years compared to the early years. They can't even show a character's butt in the current episodes without a disclaimer or a time shift, something that was perfectly acceptable early on. (Yet, the syndicated episodes are still shown with butt crackss intact.)
If you really want new brit space humor, I recommend checking out "HyperDrive" (which is also on NetFlix). Granted, the show is still rough around the edges, there is potential.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Security watches the audience, and presumably if they spot someone using a phone, that person gets thrown out.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
I think I feel a Jackson Pollack coming on....
I enjoyed 6 well enough, but 7 and 8 lost me completely. Bringing back the annoying, superior Kochansky and losing the gritty, mining-ship feel of the sets and costumes did not go down well with me. Moreover, I liked the limited cast of the original seasons, so bringing back the crew didn't work for me either.
I'm also going to say that the nanobots were some of the most annoying dei ex machinae I've come across as well. Magic tech is fine, but only as long as it doesn't become godlike.
And that's without going into the writing. As others have pointed out, Grant/Naylor made a great team. Either one on his own, not so much.
Maybe I'm wrong, and they could succeed in rebooting the series, but I very much doubt it.