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The Microsoft High-Profile Exodus Continues

snydeq writes "Bing principal Scott Prevost is the latest of several high-profile exits from Microsoft in the wake of Bob Muglia's departure, causing some to question the long-term outlook for Redmond, InfoWorld reports. While the departures have spanned the company's business divisions, the concern centers square on the Microsoft core: 'Microsoft's numbers are looking good in the short term, but the future of core products remains unclear, and so far, Redmond's cloud and mobile strategies don't seem to be paying off.'"

331 comments

  1. Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by hduff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given how Microsoft has faltered in the marketplace, has failed to innovate and continues to misunderstand its customers, perhaps the old guys need to go.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    1. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by LostCluster · · Score: 2

      Yeah, either the younger Google execs are going to take over, or they're going to need to find some exec talent among the younger MS staff... BillG is just a figurehead spending his wealth rather than earning more. Looks like the end of an era.

    2. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BillG? What does Gates have to do with this? Microsoft has been Ballmer's show for a while now.

    3. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't say they've failed to innovate. Their cloud play is pretty good and has more features than dropbox, such as computer-to-computer sync over the internet, they offer AV and security for free, they allow over-the-internet streaming from home. They didn't just start doing these things, either - they've been at it for a few years now. These plays do need some polish, but people are starting to take advantage. I think something is changing at MS, and part of it is that the old guys are leaving, and new ones who 'get it' will come in. Perhaps MS won't be as evil under new rule.... perhaps.

    4. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by yeshuawatso · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's time for big (err...meager) Bill to make a comeback. Let's face it, Ballmer isn't and never will be an innovator nor a visionary. He's like what would happen to Jobs if Jobs lost his ability to understand the simpleton market and create products that can only stand up to media attention and not nerd potential. You know, Jobs is a salesman. Ballmer however is good at churning profit from stuff that already exist, and might be the reason Microsoft is always playing catch up. What is the most innovative product Microsoft has created since Gates left? The Office ribbon? Windows 7 "snap" features? Bing's pretty pictures on the search page? The last two innovative products Microsoft had to offer was the xbox 360 and the Surface. One product is so old people are buying them because they're sick of playing their Wiis and the other is an overpriced coffee table with consumer potential but targeted at businesses that would rather use a more portable, cheaper, non-windows touch tablet.

      If their is anything Microsoft is holding back that's truly innovative, then Ballmer needs to step aside and let someone with an actual vision of the future execute it, because the last product launches where he's been at the helm have just been utter failures.

    5. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Copying is not innovation. Releasing an AV to correct problems in your own OS is not innovation. They allow streaming? As opposed to what, denying it?

      It is your computer slick.

    6. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's the most innovative product of 2010? The Kinect. It's not even a contest.

    7. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by high_rolla · · Score: 1

      I would argue that the iPad UX is the most innovative. Obviously tablets existed before now so the tablet part of the iPad is not innovative, the UX however is (despite it largely being the iPhone UI) and I think relevant proof of that is the fact that virtually every other major player in the industry is scrambling to copy them.

      --
      Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
    8. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Stregano · · Score: 1

      I am not so sure that I would say the iPhone XL is the leading innovator. I would have to agree that the Kinect is. The simple fact of it is that the hardware itself is amazing.

      --
      The world is how you make it
    9. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Copying can be innovation if your copy is better. See any Apple product in the past ten years.

      Releasing the best AV on the market for free is innovation, even if it is to protect your own system. If it's not innovative, then why can't Kaspersky or Eset or Norton keep up?

      Allowing streaming isn't innovative, but it is good. Do you really think Apple would allow open-source competitors to AppleTV to run on their platforms?

      Microsoft isn't really the evil monopoly they used to be. They are oftentimes inept (Zune, Surface, Kin, Vista, Office '07....) but they do have their hits as well (Xbox, Windows 7, MSSE). To deny that really just shows prejudice against them.

    10. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So.. the most innovative product of the year, according to geek central (/.) is tied between the Kinect (a piece of proprietary game interface hardware), or the UX (UL?)(UI?) of the IPad? You know what? I surrender. If this is the best the tech world can do, I'll find a new hobby. Maybe model trains, I heard they like to innovate.

    11. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 0

      How PC-centric (actually PC-myopic, just like Microsoft) of you to think so. There's a whole world of phones and tablets and netbooks passing both of you by.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    12. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by lostmongoose · · Score: 1

      Moving the iPhone UI from one device to another device that has identical function, only larger, is not innovative.

    13. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Funny

      Microsoft has been Ballmer's show for a while now.

      This only goes to show that you can't fix some problems just by throwing more chairs at it.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    14. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Kenshin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Kinect is the most innovative product?

      By Kinect, you mean the more advanced version of the EyeToy, right?

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    15. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Enderandrew · · Score: 0

      You can play games with just a camera? Good thing their competition hadn't already invented that way back in 2003.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EyeToy

      You can argue that what is selling the Kinect is a massive marketing campaign, and software like Dance Central. And again, Dance Central is a rip-off of Groove, which also came out in 2003.

      So ripping off an 7 year old product but doing more to market it is the most innovative product of the year?

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    16. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      See any Apple product in the past ten years.

      I have to say this is a bad example, since Apple seems to have a cult following that are going to buy Apple products no matter what. Kind of like Amiga had back in the day, you know the type that would just go ON AND ON about how wonderful their Amiga was. Thing is, I think the Amiga was much more to the PC market than what Apple is today. Ahh, but there's a skinny guy in the same old jeans and turtleneck, and you get white apple stickers when you buy the product, and all their products are instantly recognizable. Since they are top of the line (prices), they really know how to go after the show-off/jealousy factor. No, Apple is never about the product. It's the branding.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    17. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the branding.

      Keep telling yourself that, and some day your wish may come true.

    18. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Moving the iPhone UI from one device to another device that has identical function, only larger, is not innovative.

      Considering how difficult it has been to make Android "tablet-ready," I'd say you're underestimating it.

    19. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kinect is for the Xbox 360 game console, not PC. Maybe later, but not yet.

    20. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by RandCraw · · Score: 2

      Riiiight, nothing new or interesting in the iPad. No innovation in the Chevy Volt or the Nissan Leaf either.

      I'll grant you, Microsoft can make and market a better toy. But they can't invent one. "Microsoft Innovation" is an oxymoron.

      If you recall, the Kinect was invented at Carnegie Mellon three years ago by a grad student who _later_ went to work at Microsoft:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Lee_(computer_scientist)

      Oops, Johnny Chung Lee left Microsoft already. He just went to Google:
      http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2011/01/hi-google-my-name-is-johnny.html

      Yet another high profile exit from Microsoft, I guess.

    21. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      and who is kinect developed by? oh thats right PrimeSense.

    22. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 2

      Absolutely. GOOD RIDDANCE.

      They should fail. The market demands they fail. They've only survived as long as they have because of their artificial Windows monopoly on OSes and software.

      Why are they still trying with the Zune? I heard the latest model sold somewhere like 2,000 copies total. Wow. Meanwhile the ipod and iphone are EVERYWHERE. My grandma has one.

      Also, they keep pushing IE. And who the hell still uses IE? Its a complete joke. Free products (firefox, chrome, opera, etc. etc.) are far superior. Why do they still put money into fighting a war they long ago lost?

      Haha, and then there's Bing. I keep hearing ads on the RADIO for Bing. Like anybody listening to the radio is going to go "oh man, I'll search Bing tonight instead of google!" What a JOKE.

      Then there's the great flop that was Vista, so they rushed 7 out the door while it was barely a service pack to Vista so that they could get people to buy more software they didn't need and keep the company afloat.

      They have to be bleeding money like nobody's business. Most of their design decisions are terrible. I hate to sound like Steve Jobs, but they have no culture. Everything aesthetic they've just copied from apple or linux. (or, if you go back long enough, xerox)
      Frankly, for the good of computing, they need to fail.

      Especially Ballmer. Durr, I don't think anybody is going to want to buy an iphone. :p

      --
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    23. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      >> It's the branding.
      >
      > Keep telling yourself that, and some day your wish may come true.

      Nothing cures your regard for Apple as a technology company as fast as using a Mac.

      Of course most people don't. Macs are an expensive proposition if you haven't already drunk the cool-aid. Not many people are geeky enough to blow that kind of money on "just trying something out".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    24. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by jedidiah · · Score: 0

      The really "innovative" thing about the iPad was using ARM to yield something that is cheap enough for the average consumer.

      It's just an overgrown ipod. Nothing at all innovative about changing the size of something.

      It doesn't matter if you claim it originated from the ipod or business windows tablets.

      Either way, it is terribly lame in terms of "innvation".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    25. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 2
      Not being a console gamer, I have actually heard of the kinect, and I guess it is pretty innovative. But, if you judge the number of sales, this tells you kinect is not a revolution: weekly sales of the Xbox 360 are still below the Wii and the DS3.

      On the software side, Kinect Adventures is selling quite well, but it's only slightly above Wii Sports which has been out for 218 weeks. Moreover, if you plot the total sales of Kinect Adventures, you see that sales have collapsed. Part of this is due to the holiday season being ended, but there's a very likely chance that your "most innovative product" is a fad. In contrast, Wii Sports is picking up in its sales, yet again. Granted, the Kinect could pick up and make a splash, but so far, it looks like only people who already bought an xbox 360 really want it.

      I'd like to point this out from a report on Microsoft's quarterly earnings:

      Other highlights included Kinect and Xbox sales, which helped the Entertainment and Devices business beat $1 billion in annual operating profit for the first time ever... Microsoft's Xbox business racked up more than $7 billion in operating losses in the early years, but if it continues to crank at the current rate, the company might finally start earning back its investment in a few years.

      I hate to say it, but if the Kinect is the most innovative MS can get after spending $7 billion, they're screwed.

      Lastly, as anecdotal evidence, I visited my sister and her gamer husband over the holidays. They did have a kinect, but we spent the time playing guitar band instead. They didn't even mention it as a "must see".

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    26. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      What is the most innovative product Microsoft has created since Gates left?

      Surely kinect has to fit in there somewhere.

    27. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by daemonc · · Score: 1

      No, I think the good Dr. is referring to a device which uses an infrared projector to cover the room in an array of invisible dots which are then picked up by an infrared camera to rapidly create a 3 dimensional map of objects in the space, not an over-priced webcam.

      --
      All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
    28. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Moving the iPhone UI from one device to another device that has identical function, only larger, is not innovative.

      Considering how difficult it has been to make Android "tablet-ready," I'd say you're underestimating it.

      Android is a hell of a lot different to iOS. iOS was pretty much a tablet OS already.

      What specific difficulties are you referencing that Android has had to overcome that iOS has already 'innovatively' overcome?

    29. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      So ripping off an 7 year old product but doing more to market it is the most innovative product of the year?

      Yeah the iphone is just a ripoff of the nokia 3210. Seriously it's pretty obvious you've never actually used kinect if you think it's fundamentally the same as eyetoy.

    30. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe he is talking about the eyetoy: kinect?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EyeToy:_Kinetic

    31. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by ocdscouter · · Score: 1

      I think we need to take a closer look at the upholstery before we write off the chairs completely.

    32. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by wmac · · Score: 1

      Could you define innovation? (the thing that you want to see from MS)? Perhaps you mean iPad (an mp3 player) or MacBook etc? Or perhaps a software which does magic?

    33. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a toy for their game console experiment is the biggest innovation for a company whose core products are operating systems and other software?
      I don't know but perhaps they need to put their heads in the game.

    34. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      It's not the chair, but the meatbag you place in it to keep it warm!

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    35. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by MoeDrippins · · Score: 1

      I was with you till the Windows 7 comment. Mind you, I'm no MS lover (and perhaps irrationally biased against them), but Windows 7, as far as an MS OS goes, is quite good. Maybe I had worse luck with Vista than most; maybe that was MS' plan all along, but I'm forced to live with it for my employment, and Win 7 was an absolute godsend compared to Vista.

      --
      Before you design for reuse, make sure to design it for use.
    36. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Certainly not! It would disprove his point.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    37. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have some friends who work at Microsoft. They say it's a great place for a well paying steady job, but not the place to go for innovation. Apparently, years of Microsoft enjoying unquestionable dominance in the market has led to a new generation of senior leadership that hasn't ever really had to face the business consequences of mismanagement or lack of vision. Consequently, so I'm told, getting beyond mid management at Microsoft is based mostly on whether the seniors think you're a cool guy to have a beer with at their posh "off site meetings", rather than one's technical or managerial ability.

    38. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      In other news, the iPod was just a more advanced version of the Diamond Rio, the iPhone is just a more advanced version of the Palm Treo and the iPad is really nothing more than a Poqet PC with more horsepower.

      Sometimes, implementation IS everything.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    39. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Do you have any idea what the kinect is? Eyetoy is an overpriced glorified webcam with some object segmentation and gesture recognition behind it.

      Kinect is a stereoscopic camera combined with an infrared depth sensor. This provides the xbox with a 640x480 RGBD image it uses for full-body skeleton tracking, facial recognition, gesture recognition.

      If that wasn't enough, it contains motors, an accelerometer, and a microphone array for body tracking and voice recognition.

      With very little modification, the same sensor used for playing silly dance games on the xbox can be used for everything from teleoperating humanoid robots to an augmented reality midi device.

      Seriously, comparing the kinect to an eyetoy is just so far off base it's not funny.

    40. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      For the trifecta, the iPad should rhyme with a product named like Neo, or Freeo, etc. :)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    41. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by jon3k · · Score: 2

      iPad. Sorry. It will usher in an entire new era of computing. I don't like that it's an Apple device any more than anyone else, but it's opened the floodgates. In 10 years we'll look back on the Kinect as a really awesome toy and the iPad as the first true beginning of the mass adoption of a new form factor for computing. Now let's just hope Android can steal the lead with Honeycomb.

    42. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By Kinect, you mean the more advanced version of the EyeToy, right?

      Yes, exactly like a Bugatti Veyron is a more advanced version of a VW Beetle.

      Eyetoy = webcam
      Kinect = webcam + depth sensors + multi-array microphone + motorized pivoting base

      But yeah, same thing....

    43. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? Have you even used EyeToy? Your comparison is like comparing some cheap lego imitation house to a skyscraper.

    44. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by lennier · · Score: 1

      In other news, the iPod was just a more advanced version of the Diamond Rio, the iPhone is just a more advanced version of the Palm Treo and the iPad is really nothing more than a Poqet PC with more horsepower.

      Sometimes, implementation IS everything.

      Yes. I had a Palm Treo for years, a Palm Tungsten and III before that, was buying and reading eBooks online back around 1999 - I bought Stephen King's "Riding the Bullet" in 2000 just for kicks - so when the iPhone came out I was "so, now the iPod has finally caught up with the rest of the PDA/smartphone world? About time! By the way, when is Palm going to release a new device?"

      But for the media it was all "STEVE JOBES INVENTS SUPER MOBILE INTERTUBES THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!!"

      The iPhone's a nice successor to a category created by others, and it stepped neatly into a niche left wide open by Palm's utter self-disintegration and Microsoft's inexplicable inability to carry through on their temporary lead in the phone space - but it's not the total revolution the tech-unsavvy public seemed (and still seem) to think it was.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    45. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by lennier · · Score: 1

      And who the hell still uses IE? Its a complete joke. Free products (firefox, chrome, opera, etc. etc.) are far superior.

      Sadly, there's one place where IE is not only competitive with Firefox but completely outclasses it: enterprise manageability.

      Have you ever tried to centrally deploy Firefox patches to 2000 computers? Or apply Firefox proxy settings via Active Directory Group Policy?

      Firefox is a joke in the business space, and that's really really sad.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    46. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by neural.disruption · · Score: 1

      You realize that EyeToy is just an USB camera, right?

      Also you realize that Kinect has lots of IR detectors and emitters besides the camera, and is being used in lots of research lately, right?

      But bollocks maybe the non-MS researchers behind the holograms, the interactive interfaces and such are just lazy lads copying EyeToy.

    47. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will the last one to leave please turn out the lights?

    48. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Whilst Ballmer is buggering up M$ it is Gates that keeps him in the chair. The most damage that has been done to M$ is the routine firing of any threats to Ballmer over the last decade. As a result M$ has lost some of the best and brightest to protect the ego of an insurance salesman and that same attitude has crippled MSN.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    49. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      To gamers. For those of us who don't care about gaming (which is many people) the Kinect is meh.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    50. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by joebob2000 · · Score: 1

      perhaps the old guys need to go.

      I know guys from Google. They ran the first projects that made Google more than just a cute name. They created the tech that made Google stand out from the rest.

      They are the old guys.

    51. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by kai.chan · · Score: 1

      Wrong. How is Kinect "innovative" when it is functionally no different on a console than PlayStation's EyeToy that was released 10 years ago? Kinect games brought absolutely no innovation in gameplay. The data that the Kinect can capture and being projected onto a 2D TV screen for a console is no different than doing image recognition with the EyeToy 10 years ago.

      Sure, Kinect hacks are coming out to produce interesting things, but Microsoft didn't create those hacks. And in fact, Microsoft didn't even make the Kinect sensor, they just bought the technology and spent a ton of money marketing it. Microsoft provided no innovation in 2010, much like every other year.

    52. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Kinect is cool. No doubt there. But it's not cool in an "iphone" sort of way. It's a game controller that, BTW, makes the game player move around alot. Ever see gamers?

      Moving around alot is the definition of what they try to avoid! So I'm guessing it'll be something like Wii fit - popular for a while until people realize that the image of who they want to be doesn't fit the reality of who they are willing to be.

      But in other fronts, they seem to be blowing their load hard in the wrong direction!

      They predicted that mobile computing would be a big, big deal, some 10 years ago. Windows CE/mobile spent 10 years trying to find its home, making tiny, incremental improvements, only to be spanked robustly by a Unix derivative (iOS) and then spanked again by another (Android) in short order with 1/10th the resources spent on Windows Mobile. Their recent Windows 7 Phone launch was almost exactly 18 months too late, so Android continues to rapidly ratchet up to market dominance after iOS proved the market for mobile devices really exists, just like Bill predicted 10 years ago.

      Then, there's Windows Vista. No need to discuss what a train wreck that was! Windows 7 is actually a relatively decent O/S (if you ignore its many, flagrant security holes due to fundamental architecture limitations) but now, after years of trying to convince people that the turd of Vista was chocolate flavored, nobody trusts them anymore!

      After spending billions upon billions and 5 years of losing money, they've finally managed to make XBox profitable. (as long as you ignore interest on the billions already spent)

      You really think a multi-billion coming up with a game controller is remarkable?

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    53. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by xtal · · Score: 1

      Microsoft hardware has always been pretty good.

      Too bad they're a software company. :)

      --
      ..don't panic
    54. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      But my point is, they sold vista as a completed OS product, and it wasn't. Almost nobody was happy with it. What should have been FREE service pack updates to improve vista, instead went into a rushed new OS product, that everybody had to buy all over again.

      I don't mean to say that windows 7 is absolute trash. Its a solid operating system. But my point is, Vista was trash, and they tried to sell it to us as a solid OS. Then, when we found out it wasn't, rather than support it and those who bought it, they got everybody to buy another so they could bring in more money.

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    55. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      Ah, fair point. That would definitely be a drawback with firefox.
      Are any of the other competitors (chrome, opera, etc.) any better? Or is IE really the only enterprise solution?

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    56. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not as though they came up with that on their own:
      PrimeSense's 3-D camera is a key component of Microsoft Corp.'s Kinect motion- and voice-control technology for the Xbox 360 game system

      ...and they certainly had the resources to do so, but they can't deliver.

    57. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a) Because it is different from the EyeToy.
      b) Kinect games brought innovation in gameplay.
      c) Kinect isn't about projecting a capture onto a 2D screen...
      d) Microsoft did make the Kinect sensor; what they didn't make was the IR ranging camera (which is an incredibly obvious differentiator to the EyeToy). In particular, they developed the 3-dimensional skeletal mapping software.

    58. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether something is innovative or not has nothing to do with whether it is proprietary (with the possible exception of the innovation of non-proprietary licenses themselves, but I would consider those legal innovations rather than technical ones).

      iPad UX is a technical innovation but I think that innovation belongs to previous years when it first showed up on the iPhone. If you don't think UX is a technical innovation, then I'm afraid you're contributing to one of the major problems with non-proprietary software.

    59. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      I would argue that the iPad UX is the most innovative

      Innovative? Well, OK. I'm sure it's purely co-incidental that the chap who led development of it bungied briefly into Picsel Technologies in the early 2000s, said "Oh, you're selling a unified multimedia 'UX', mostly to Far East markets that North Americans will never have heard of, how interesting...[scribble scribble]... well, I'm off to Apple now, kthnxbye".

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    60. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by kikito · · Score: 1

      You mean, the Wii?

    61. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem isnt age, it is bitter, greed and arrogance.

      Balmer is the problem

      Also, the CSP's are the real core problem that drive people out and drive people not to care about their work, all they want is PROMOTIONS. It is MANDATORY, been there done that. Got tired of it as there is no real heart in it (there is no real money in it either compared to what I get now).

      I worked there 7 years in many countries and different Business Units.

      I was glad to get out. Never looked back, Started my own.

      Microsoft is for "students" that are blind and work 80 hours a week and have no life. Once they spend a couple of years there, they want to leave too.

      Promotional driven developemnt is the core microsoft and it is now back firing.

    62. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by gtall · · Score: 1

      Bill coming back wouldn't help them. He built the sclerotic organization over which Ballmer presides. And technology passed Bill by long ago, his technical grasp is irrelevant.

      It isn't Steve Jobs thinking up new takes on old markets that drives Apple. It is their staff that come up with bright ideas that Steve is good at sifting. He had to be good because one misstep could sink Apple. They are not that big of a company, their stock valuation does not make them a big company.

      MS's problem is their sclerotic organization and entrenched fiefdoms. For a new fiefdom to start, the others would have to allow it. They won't because they view it all as a zero sum game. Their 90% penetration of the PC market has infected the whole organization. There is nowhere to grow if you view the world as 90% yours. It isn't but I don't think that is how they see it. So innovation gets smothered in its crib.

    63. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creative, certainly. Innovation implies economic viability in addition to creativity. We will see.

    64. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the most innovative product of 2010? The Kinect. It's not even a contest.

      You gotta be kidding, Dude ARM's CPU innovation whoops everybody's ass. Um you do realize that without it there would be no tablets what so ever as there are now. So lets just put the record straight its the ARM Cortex A,M & R Series of CPU's.

    65. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by MoeDrippins · · Score: 1

      Ahhh, I see; I totally misunderstood you there. My apologies. Yes, Win 7 by all accounts was what Vista should have been in terms of reliability.

      --
      Before you design for reuse, make sure to design it for use.
    66. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by N1AK · · Score: 1

      The iPad is most innovative product of 2010 in the same way that The Beatles becoming available on iTunes "Was just another day... you'll never forget". That is, only if you're fanatiscism for Apple has left you incapable of relative comparison.

      iPad's are great hardware, a great platform and host some great software. They're still the premium tablet (imo, though I won't be getting one). The fact it isn't very innovative isn't actually a bad thing.

    67. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      You can read what Matias Duarte himself has to say about it.

      As for the potential tablets in particular, Duarte notes that those who initially brushed aside Apple's iPad when it debuted a year ago underestimated the impact of what Apple did in bringing the multi-touch screen to a larger-size device. "I think those skeptics were short-sighted," Duarte said. "That's the genius of what Apple achieved with that iPad."

      Taken from this article, which came out after my post, else I would have cited it originally.

    68. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chevy Volt?
      Nigga GM had dat EV1 out when you were swimming in poppa's nutsac boyeeeeeeeee

    69. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      Was the Palm Tungsten a phone then?

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    70. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by yeshuawatso · · Score: 1

      Not really. The kinect is just an extension of the Xbox 360 which I already said was one of the two best innovations since Gates departure. Microsoft didn't intend on it to be used outside of the Xbox and outright condemned developers for extended it to the PC, only to later retract their own statements when someone whispered to Ballmer that they make more profit from the device than the Xbox. Furthermore, the kinect was Microsoft's RESPONSE to the Wii, not a whole new innovation. It was half assed done by Sony and their eye cam for the PS2 well before the Wii, except Sony's lacked depth perception.

      I know some want to cheer for Microsoft, but let's face the facts, if they don't do something soon, they're going to be left out of the future of computing as more and more people choose mobile platforms, including cheap ARM tablets, to replace their laptops, the way laptops replaced desktops. Apple and Google are eating Microsoft's lunch right from underneath them and the company lacks a true visionary who can see beyond x86 PCs.

    71. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      None of my friends who are "serious gamers" have any interest in this, it is a toy. It can't be used to control anything other other than specially designed minority interest novelty games, and can't be used without re-arranging your room and seriously pissing off your neighbours. It can't possibly be claimed to be a new input paradigm.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    72. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about the durability of the 360.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    73. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Innovative product for 2010?

      This technology has been under development at the MIT Media lab for many years.

      You are giving Microsoft credit for very little. It was designed in Cambridge and manufactured in China. What did Redmond add to it?

    74. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what? Sure it is a more "advanced," but it's not doing a whole lot more than the stupid eye toy.

    75. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by ilguido · · Score: 1

      The most marketed piece of hardware of 2010, maybe. Moreover it was developed by an Israeli company, Primesense, not by MS.

    76. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Kinect games brought absolutely no innovation in gameplay.

      Because optical full body skeleton tracking has been done before in a $150 consumer device. I'm not sure you really know what the Kinect is. Eyetoy provides a 320×240 RGB image. Kinect provides 640x480 RGBD image, so it has an extra depth dimension which is the key innovation of the kinect.

      Eyetoy enables rudimentary color detection, edge detection, and gesture tracking. The depth information provided by the kinect goes far beyond this, as the devices provides full body motion tracking, advanced gesture recognition, facial recognition, person tracking (with integrated motors), and voice recognition (with microphone array).

      So far the coolest things I've seen with the kinect are automatic login via face recognition, and simultaneous full body tracking for two player games. This is something eyetoy was never capable of, or any console for that matter. Thus, innovative.

    77. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given how Microsoft has faltered in the marketplace, has failed to innovate and continues to misunderstand its customers, perhaps the old guys need to go.

      Old guys?? No new graduate worth his/her salt wants to work there either!

    78. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      In other news, Toshiba supplies Apple with multi touch displays. Apple can't deliver!

    79. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said "created". A company called PrimeSense created the kinect, Microsoft merely interfaced it to the Xbox.

      Like DOS and Windows before it, Microsoft is selling what is mostly the work of other people as their own.

    80. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Is it? Sony had similar stuff in the PS2 days not with such a fine grained resolution but still it had something.
      Besides that motion tracking is not that innovative.

    81. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Exactly, might be a blessing in disguise.

    82. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I just heard some sad news on talk radio -Software/hardware company Microsoft was found dead in its Redmond home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss them - even if you didn't enjoy their products, there's no denying their contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    83. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Cowmonaut · · Score: 1

      Really? The market demands that such a large and influential company just disappear and create a power vacuum? I mean, I get the anti-MS attitude, really I do, but some of your points seem to be more the rantings of an anti-MS fanboy then anything else.

      Vista;s Service Pack 1 came out February 4, 2008 and Win7 came out October 22, 20009. That's like, 20 some odd months apart. And given Vista came out January of 2007 its not like things were just all rushed out (remember, Win7 was technically in development while WinVista was). And really, Win7 is an amazing OS. Personally i had no problems with Vista because my home PC was overpowered so I don't feel my expectations were set low. I manage ~1300 computers and the ones moved over to Windows7 have comparatively far fewer issues. The thing is rock solid and easy to recover in the odd event it does run into an issue. Mind you my *nix box at home still has a better uptime (over a year since the last power outage).

      Also, anyone actually involved in the computer industry knows how widely used IE still is, despite the advantages of alternative browsers. With so many people looking to use their PC as an appliance (as Steve Jobs predicted back in the day) and so many old corporate webapps dependent on it its no wonder either.

      By the way, when the Zune first came out it was the second most popular mobile device after the iPod. Agreed that doesn't seem to have lasted long. Latest story regarding it I can find regales how they fell to single digits of market share. Having used a 1st generation Zune and multiple versions of the iPod this doesn't surprise me, even with the integration with the Xbox I like.

      Honestly I would rather see some new blood in Microsoft, and new ideas not get squashed. Their corporate culture needs to adapt. A company that big won't just die overnight and its decline would be more harmful for computing as it gets more desperate.

    84. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Copying can be innovation if your copy is better. See any Apple product in the past ten years.

      Agreed.

      Releasing the best AV on the market for free is innovation, even if it is to protect your own system. If it's not innovative, then why can't Kaspersky or Eset or Norton keep up?

      Because Microsoft has the source code, and Kaspersky or Eset or Norton do not. Microsoft also has internal discussion records of the time when the vulnerability was introduced - knowingly or unknowingly. Why is that so hard to understand?

      On the other hand, it was incredibly shameful that third parties were doing a better job of protecting Microsoft's closed source, closed bug-database, closed internal discussion product earlier. So much so that Microsoft themselves displayed a warning if you ran without anti-virus.

      Microsoft isn't really the evil monopoly they used to be. They are oftentimes inept (Zune, Surface, Kin, Vista, Office '07....) but they do have their hits as well (Xbox, Windows 7, MSSE). To deny that really just shows prejudice against them.

      Agreed. Though I think their new found non-evil-ness is not from lack of trying.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    85. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except it was designed by PrimeSense

    86. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Successful yes, innovative, no.

      Much like the iphone, which was based off smart phones before it and then given a few twists that made it successful, the Kinect is based on technology that's been floating around for a long time now, technology that has been looked into by their competitors as much as ten years ago.

      That said, I've yet to see a single raving or significantly positive review of a Kinect title. Its neat, and cool, and interesting from a geek perspective, but I don't see it as a gaming add-on worth getting until some really interesting games come out for it.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    87. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Its more obvious you never used Eyetoy or the more recent Eye.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    88. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      Rats and ships.. Just sayin'

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    89. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      That says nothing about the difficulty, just about the impact the device had.

    90. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Its more obvious you never used Eyetoy or the more recent Eye.

      Wrong.
      The eye is just a camera to do 2-dimensional tracking or 3D point tracking with the move wand. The kinect has IR and RGB cams as well as a CMOS sensor so it can do 3D depth sensing and bone mapping. Anyone who has actually used both knows that these 2 devices are VERY different.

    91. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1
      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    92. Re:Mayeb Not a Bad Thing? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
      Everything is based on something else. People get innovative mixed up with invention, and sometimes even concept.

      As for lame, well, the Ipad consumers don't think so. The IPad did - is doing -something that is pretty cool, which is to appliance-ize the browser for the living room. It isn't the only computing device likely to be in the house, but it's great at setting there, and not taking up much space. Then you want to use it? Pick it up and use it. That's not original, either in invention or concept, but it takes something that has existed, made it suck a whole lot less, and got people to buy it. And in the business dictionary, that constitutes innovation.

      My family has gone from a 15 inch laptop to a netbook in the living room, and when the time comes, we'll have the IPad. The Kinect? Sure, that is pretty cool innovation too. But the IPad has certainly had a lot more impact.

      Of course it you just love MS and hate Apple, I'm full of it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. YES! by trendzetter · · Score: 0

    The demise of Microsoft, isn't that where we all have been waiting for? I hope the go bust soon, just like the USA also.

    1. Re:YES! by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Wont happen in your life time. MS or the US. Both are way too rich... and if it comes to that MS has mice, US has nukes.

      Besides absolutely nothing is stopping MS from reinventing themselves and releasing a Linux distro.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  3. Long Term Strategy to Take Down Apple by HeraldMage · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, the future of Redmond is secure. They're strategically letting all these folks go, so that they can all go work for, and eventually destroy, Apple from the inside out. It's like the Cylon infiltration of the human race on Caprica in BSG...

    Or Google, or both.

    --
    Ich suche die Leidenschaft, die keine Leiden schafft.
    1. Re:Long Term Strategy to Take Down Apple by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      facebook?

      I applaud this as their most (only?) innovative idea yet!

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
  4. Bing by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bing principal Scott Prevost...

    Considering Slashdot's other Bing story today, I can't say I'm sad to see him go.

  5. Vote of no-confidence? by kenrblan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This could be a simple case that the departing employees simply have no faith in the direction Ballmer is leading Microsoft. When the ship is headed toward an iceberg and the captain is being stubborn or unaware, the best course of action is often evacuation.

    --
    Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. - Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or it could be a case of the old guard being very wealthy and tired of the rat race. Past a certain point of wealth you should be concentrating on fulfilling some exotic desire and not being a product manager filling out paperwork.

    2. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is a good point. Also, it's possible that too-rich, too-old, undermotivated managers are at the heart of Microsoft's apparent stagnation. It won't hurt them to bring in some younger, hungrier talent.

    3. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by sunwukong · · Score: 4, Funny

      When the ship is headed toward an iceberg and the captain is being stubborn or unaware, the best course of action is often evacuation.

      Otherwise, it's just like throwing chairs on the Titanic?

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

    4. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by Stregano · · Score: 1

      Either that or one of them left for normal business reasons (somebody tried/succeeded in screwing him over) and the oerson working under him pulled a "if he is walking, so am I". It happens all the time in a business. It happens to M$ and everybody flips out.

      --
      The world is how you make it
    5. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Also, it's possible that too-rich, too-old, undermotivated managers are at the heart of Microsoft's apparent stagnation.

      This sounds very logical... it would be in-line with the corporate reasoning behind the "streamlining" of the amazing health benefits they used to have (well in addition to the fact that health insurance is outrageously expensive and getting more and more so).

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    6. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by ocdscouter · · Score: 1

      That's deck chairs to you, Sir!

    7. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      "Rearranging Deck Chairs on the Titanic" was a great song, by the Refreshments (or part of the band), I remember getting a tape of it in the mail back in the 90s when I used to correspond with bands I liked. Lyrics here; a cover on YouTube here (couldn't find the Refreshments version, unfortunately, but the cover sounds good too -- thanks for the memories!). "I realize now my time was better spent drinking." :)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    8. Re:Vote of no-confidence? by Alarash · · Score: 1

      I dislike Microsoft as much as anyone, but I actually prefer Ballmer's way than Gates'. At least now they are starting to open their formats, contribute to open source (jQuery for instance), even allow the Mono Project to live even if it can potentially pull customers away from IIS, etc... Their core products are not too good, but in my opinion they are moving into the right direction. I'm not saying they are not evil or anything, please note, just trying to put some fairness in the comments.

  6. That Microsoft Icon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Why did the slashdot re-design not also update that stupid Microsoft icon here? It is so dated and lame, I wonder if anybody over 20 even understand the references to it.

    Even fucking facebook has the real logo on this site, and you guys can't use the real Microsoft logo by now?

    1. Re:That Microsoft Icon by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Why did the slashdot re-design not also update that stupid Microsoft icon here? It is so dated and lame, I wonder if anybody over 20 even understand the references to it.

      Now it looks like Woody Allen. Not sure that it helps the under 20 set, though. What would you suggest? Ballmer's armpits?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:That Microsoft Icon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS...

      Nah, also dated. Nobody under 25 would get that one. Or connect it to MS. "Developers and MS? If anything, developing for Windows is a pita, why would that..."

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:That Microsoft Icon by wiredlogic · · Score: 0

      Agreed. A more appropriate slur would be a Pakled allusion.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    4. Re:That Microsoft Icon by sltd · · Score: 1, Funny

      "I wonder if anybody over 20 even understand the references to it." I'm 21 and I understand it just fine. Now get off my lawn!

    5. Re:That Microsoft Icon by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Seriously.... Gates doesn't even work there any more, and Apple is more borg-ish than MS, what with the tight control over hardware.

      I know /. is strictly anti-MS, but they could at least update the picture to a flying chair, if only to stay relevant.

    6. Re:That Microsoft Icon by Verdatum · · Score: 1

      I'd suggest Clippy; regardless of who gets it.

    7. Re:That Microsoft Icon by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      No. Bad idea.

      Could cause seizures and other health problems.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:That Microsoft Icon by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I believe I have the perfect MSFT logo: A picture of Ballmer with his tongue out wearing a beanie that says "I heart Apple" since his rein has been a whole bunch of "me too" plays such as Zune and it would be certainly more topical than the Gates borg.

      I mean you can just picture the guy at meetings going "And with this next product we will make MSFT just as cool and hip as Apple with consumers! Yes we will! We will! STOP LAUGHING AT ME!!!"

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    9. Re:That Microsoft Icon by h00manist · · Score: 1

      Why did the slashdot re-design not also update that stupid Microsoft icon here? It is so dated and lame, I wonder if anybody over 20 even understand the references to it.

      Even fucking facebook has the real logo on this site, and you guys can't use the real Microsoft logo by now?

      Yeah perhaps Mr. Smith is the more updated version of the Borg, fitting to represent Microsoft.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    10. Re:That Microsoft Icon by h00manist · · Score: 1
      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    11. Re:That Microsoft Icon by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      Apple is more borg-ish than MS, what with the tight control over hardware.

      Not true. Apple develops. Microsoft assimilates and adapts.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
  7. Simple explanation by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you are fully vested in your lucrative stock options and the share price can't go anyplace but down in the future, you'd be crazy not to cash out.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Simple explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are fully vested in your lucrative stock options and the share price can't go anyplace but down in the future, you'd be crazy not to cash out.

      Uhh, maybe you haven't heard but you don't need to quit to exercise stock options. Just sayen.

    2. Re:Simple explanation by jumpingfred · · Score: 1

      Microsoft now gives RSUs since as you point out the stock gain is not great anymore. They made the change in 2003. RSUs are basically outright grants of stock that are available for you to sell after some vesting period.

  8. Ex-Microsoftie by halo_2_rocks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked for Bob for a few years and had alot of admiration for the guy. I left about 2 years ago during the mass layoff and it was the best career move I ever made. Microsoft has become (and was becoming when I left) a horrible place to work. Please, if you are considering a professional career in software development, DO NOT work there. Almost anywhere else is better. I currently work for a small software company as a CTO with about $100million in sales last year and the work environment difference is night and day. The reason Microsoft is faltering is because it has moved from a fun, innovative place to work to a serious personal and professional nightmare. You have to go through a political circus to justify you job there (your two reviews per year) where you have little input in the final determination about your job (the politics of Microsoft). I shudder to think about the years I wasted jumping through those hoops instead of working on product and helping customers. Again, avoid working at Microsoft at all costs.

    1. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Amouth · · Score: 1

      a small software company as a CTO with about $100million in sales last year

      sorry but 100m a year isn't considered "a small ... company" by anyone. smaller than MS yes.. but not small.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    2. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stock market considers that small

    3. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by PinchDuck · · Score: 1

      You know the economy is healing when conversations turn from "Grab any job available" to "Never work at THAT place".

    4. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Stregano · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I went from one of the biggest players in the telemarketting/call center field as a programmer (they easily had a few hundred programmers) to a company that has less than 10 employees total. You want to talk night and day, my friend. This tiny company is amazing to work at. I have only worked here for 6 months, but it is still hard to adjust. I am still paranoid of that "evil eye" looking over everything I do, but it is not there. We are free to code how we want as long as the end product is up to spec. It is a great place and gives me the ability to branch out and learn new things instead of being confined to specific standards that need to be done for the 100+ employees. I actually make my own personal standards now. I think they are pretty good (then again, I wrote them so programmer's ego means I always think they are good). My personal suggestion for anybody out there, if you are in it for money, stop the comp sci degree, get a business degree, and work in IT for a big company. If you truly love this type of work, the smaller the company is, the better (well, as long as they have a decent track record behind them, of course).

      --
      The world is how you make it
    5. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by sdguero · · Score: 1

      Interesting. A friend of mine works with some ex-M$ employees and they all rave about it. Of course none of them worked there past 2005. I wonder what M$ can do to fix the problem...

    6. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by ArundelCastle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe I'm stuck in the 80s, but it seems like you just described IBM.
      Quick, what's the Microsoft Company Song?

    7. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 2

      Your experience echos every developer I know at Microsoft who isn't working on one of their dev products. People talk about EA burning out their game devs, but Microsoft seems to do the same thing.

      Lack of communication between and within teams despite an abundance of useless meetings, customer-focused red tape, developer infighting, and poor management all make progress slow to a halt.

    8. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Yaa+101 · · Score: 1

      That is the trouble with most big companies, if you are into politics these places are a great way to spend your days, for all other people it's a nightmare.
      Most awful things are the hypocritical political correctness and the backstabbing that takes place by these so called political correct hypocrites.
      It's an environment where psychopaths thrive.

    9. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how many hours per week do you work at this amazing company?

      When you hit your early thirties, what you'll want to do is to clock-out after 38 hours and go and enjoy life for yourself.

    10. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Amouth · · Score: 1

      I'm in his same situation (originally not as large a company but still large) and am at one with 16 people..

      10 years ago when i started here i worked 60 hour weeks.. but i also had to do everything.. as we have grown and devised and implemented roles i was able to cut back.. right now hold around 45 hours a week and that is a good level for me..

      i'm one of the types of people who can't just sit still.. some times i go home eat dinner and do a little work just because i'd rather get something worthwhile done than to sit on my ass and watch the boob tube..

      one of the benefits of working for a small company though in my mind is they are a lot more understanding of personal situations - right now i take one day a week and work from home so i can spend more time with my son, but i can do this because they know and i know that unlike others i don't pad my time.. normally i only log 3-6 hours on that day (during his naps) but i also make sure i'm available if they need anything.

      the flexibility is wonderful - and not something that was available or would have even been considered when i worked for a larger company.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    11. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a small software company as a CTO with about $100million in sales last year

      sorry but 100m a year isn't considered "a small ... company" by anyone. smaller than MS yes.. but not small.

      500 employees is the cut off from the SBA. 100M is easily a "small company" officially.

    12. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I resigned this year, and halo_2_rocks echoes exactly my sentiments about the nightmare. It isn't about the work or customers anymore.

    13. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick, what's the Microsoft Company Song?

      Start Me Up?

    14. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by Stregano · · Score: 1

      Late reply to you bro. I work around 50 hours a week out of choice. That is not counting the freelance job I am working on and my own personal software I am working on. It is rare that I am not programming 10-12 hours a day during the week, and 8-10 hours during the weekend. I guess my views on working at some of these places really show my age (for some reason, everybody can tell I am in my early/mid 20's when I post about my job).

      --
      The world is how you make it
    15. Re:Ex-Microsoftie by ArundelCastle · · Score: 1

      Start Me Up?

      "You make a thrown chair flyyyyyyy..."
      Damn, too easy.

  9. Microsoft can't be all things to all people by hilldog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I still don't get why Microsoft feels they need to be a player in every category? Why Bling, smart phones, mp3 players, games, cloud computing, tablets and all the rest? Why not be a focused company with the leading office suite? Or an innovate O/S? Yeah yeah I know the investors must be kept at bay like howling wolves at the corporate door but how many missteps can a company make before they and we realize they are just followers and no longer leaders?

    1. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by dave562 · · Score: 2

      I agree completely. It seems like Microsoft has some sort of complex where they feel like they need to be involved in everything that has anything to do with personal computers or consumer electronics. It would be great to see them jettison all of the dead weight, clean up the company with some serious re-structuring, and then focus their enterprise on providing a solid OS and application stack to developers and businesses.

    2. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by oracleguy01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think part of Microsoft's problem is that in the Office and OS markets in particular, their biggest competitor is themselves. They've made their products good enough where people don't bother upgrading when the new version comes out.

      They could intentionally break backwards compatibility with former products to try and get people to upgrade but that doesn't really work for them. Case and point: they ended up releasing the backwards compatibility add-on so Office 2003 could read and write the 2007/2010 file formats.

      I doubt they will really give up trying to break into new markets, they have their huge install base of core products to fall back on. It isn't like they are hurting for cash.

    3. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by dakohli · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It's because if a Company isn't growing, then it's not healthy. (according to the big time stock analysts)

      The more fields your business dominates, the safer it is. So, something can't come along and kill your business completely. The only thing missing here seems to be a viable long term plan. MS does its best when it can leverage one product with another. Right now the jury is out on Windows Phone 7, however the desktop is safe, as well as Office, and while they seem to have missed the ball on slate type computers, they seem to have solidified their hold on laptops and netbooks.

      Their fear might be, if they were to focus on one thing (desktop) then something innovative could come along and wipe them out quickly. Now, they are spread out among several markets and one innovation cannot come along and give them serious trouble.

      My two cents: It will happen eventually, but they are delaying it magnificently.

    4. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by bunhed · · Score: 1

      When you can't hit anything with the pistol, you haul out the shotgun.

    5. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by chowdahhead · · Score: 1

      You just said it yourself, because shareholders don't care about how strong earnings are, they want to see growth. Compounding this is Microsoft continuing to think that they can leverage their monopoly position in the desktop and business to gain traction in other markets. Microsoft has always been an aggressive company. It's their nature.

    6. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by high_rolla · · Score: 2

      It's largely due to their model I'd say. Their core business is Desktop/ Server OS and Office. Their strategy is to keep you locked into their core products rather than make you want to stay with their core products. It seems their approach to this is to try and make sure everything else you do leads back to a logical decision to do it on Windows.

      ie. If you use IE as your browser you are essentially locked into Windows. If you use WinMo 7 on your phone then it is easier to manage on Windows. If you have an XBox then it plays better with other things if you have a Windows Desktop etc.

      I see it as a self sustaining model as long as it works. Their dominance on the Desktop helps them extend into other areas and once they are strong in other areas it feeds their dominance on the desktop. The only problem with this model is that losing either causes it to crumble (if people are there because they have to be rather than want to be) and I think we are witnessing the beginning of that crumble in many areas (smartphone, tablet and search being good examples).

      With respect to smartphone and tablet segments, I realise MS is good at coming to the game late and muscling in but Apple and Google are the dominant players here and two companies MS has not been good at competing with recently.

      --
      Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
    7. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      Because they have to diversify, sooner or later the OS and office suite markets will become commoditised.

      They are trying to enter new markets now while they have a significant source of income and can afford to take serious losses for a few years before they establish themselves (see xbox). If they have no replacement revenue stream when their core ones dry up, they would be pretty screwed.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by ejtttje · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's an outgrowth of their core strategy of embrace, extend, extinguish. If there is a category using non-Microsoft products, it is a potential breeding ground for competitive technologies to take hold and spread into other markets where it could displace Microsoft. I interpret their faltering steps whenever they try to do something new as a result of being focused on simply blocking competitors as opposed to actually having any innovative insights of their own. (i.e. they decide to move into a market based on strategic value, not because they have any idea what they're going to contribute to that market.)

    9. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by elashish14 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course they won't give up. You have to diversify as a business. Suppose cloud computing had an overnight revolution and all of a sudden you don't need a specific operating system anymore? Suppose Windows was found to be infringing on some stupid patent that all of a sudden would require massive code rewrite and/or licensing settlements? Suppose some other example that just made Windows and Office no longer relevant.

      You _have_ to diversify if you're a business. You never know when things will crash, or if some dark horse suddenly takes the scene by storm and makes you irrelevant. You can't just sit on your chips. You have to use them to make more. Otherwise, you run the risk of perishing. Fast.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
    10. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because, at least in the tech field, growing companies mean that they are healthier companies because they are taking market share from non-growing companies.

      How many people would consider Microsoft to be a healthy company now?

    11. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      It seems like Microsoft has some sort of complex where they feel like they need to be involved in everything [...]

      Yeah I had a floor-mate like that my freshman year in college; after a couple weeks he had earned the nickname "Topper" because he always had a story that topped the previous one. Fucking annoying little shit -- just like Microsoft.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    12. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Suppose cloud computing had an overnight revolution and all of a sudden you don't need a specific operating system anymore?

      I've recently started looking into AWS (Amazon Web Services) and they have VMs available for both Linux and Windows. I find it enlightening that the Windows price is higher -- similarly, if you really want to know which of two activities is the most risky, ask an insurance actuary. They know, just as Amazon knows that it costs more to manage/maintain/acquire.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    13. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Because MS is paranoid. And has always been. For MS to win, they feel everyone else has to lose. That's why they have to be in everything. Any other company can't make any money especially if it threatens any of MS businesses.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    14. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Market valuation. Paul Thurrot was just talking about this in the SuperSite for Windows podcast this weekend. If you're an investor, you might have noticed that MSFT doesn't really move significantly. The industry is mature and the company is mature. As Thurrot pointed out, and I agree, companies that feel pressured to keep up double digit growth will often resort to getting into businesses they don't really need to be in. An example Thurrot uses was Mars Inc. if I remember right. The company makes chocolate candy (M&M's), but you can only growth so much, so the company began to sell non-candy merchandise like M&M's branded toy. Microsoft has to eat a lot in order to survive in the market, and that means variety.

      But it's not necessarily a bad thing to jump into every tech category. Even if Microsoft doesn't lead in Zune and Bing, what Microsoft accomplishes there could be used to improve Windows, and that's probably what most non-enterprise consumers care about. You could make the case that Microsoft should be a player everywhere just so that it doesn't miss the boat the way IBM and HP did in the '80s.

    15. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by WATist · · Score: 1

      What they really need to do is invest, grow and incorporate if they can't innovate internally plus clean their management house.

    16. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it". They're not selling these things at-cost. Given a fixed supply of computing resources which has to be divided between Linux VMs and Windows VMs, yes, the relative resource usage will have some impact on the price because they impact the supply curve, but we cannot in fairness pretend that we know the demand curves are equal. This is a business with high capital barriers to entry, so competition hasn't whittled down Amazon's margins.

      In short: you can't determine a whole lot about the cost to acquire, manage, and maintain various OS VMs based on the prices charged. It may be that it's even worse for Windows and it's made up for by low demand for this particular use-case, or it may be much better for Windows if the demand is closer to greater marketplace trends.

    17. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an outgrowth of their core strategy of embrace, extend, extinguish. If there is a category using non-Microsoft products, it is a potential breeding ground for competitive technologies to take hold and spread into other markets where it could displace Microsoft. I interpret their faltering steps whenever they try to do something new as a result of being focused on simply blocking competitors as opposed to actually having any innovative insights of their own. (i.e. they decide to move into a market based on strategic value, not because they have any idea what they're going to contribute to that market.)

      You nailed it.

    18. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      The paradigm of endless growth, myth, this does not work. Just because the business guys do not get it does not mean they are right. First we live in a world of limited ressources second, growth at one point can only happen at the expense of others. And as general rule, there is no endless growth every growth has its end and the end usually is a regulating collapse. Business is no exception but the rule, the various economic crashes in the past are proof.
      And this cycle will repeat ad infinitum until we get away from a grow interest rates based system!

    19. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They haven't made good office products, they've made products which people have gotten used to using.

    20. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in the Office and OS markets in particular, their biggest competitor is themselves. [...] They could intentionally break backwards compatibility with former products to try and get people to upgrade

      Windows on ARM would do that (for at least one cycle), and a story recently said they've got it working.

    21. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Eravnrekaree · · Score: 1

      the desktop is not going anywhere. Do i want to work on a spreadsheet on a 4x4 inch screen? hell no. Do i want my documents becoming the property of a big corporation and if i lose internet connection i cant get them? Hell no.

    22. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Shareholders seem to be very happy with dividends. If they weren't, Microsoft stock would have be already trashed.

    23. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by dakohli · · Score: 1
      Mod this up!!!

      We have a flawed system!

    24. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by dakohli · · Score: 1

      I don't think I said that the desktop might be replaced by something else, however my point was that the Microsoft Desktop might be replaced by another Non-MS Desktop. I'm with you, I think the Desktop is here to stay, however I do think that our Data will become much easier to pass around between devices.
      I see cameras that will automatically sync with our digital picture frames/printers and other devices. I see creating a document that becomes available across a wide range of devices instantly without having to save it specifically to a network drive. Sharing data with my family without thinking.
      The real trick here will be to control it, and protect our privacy.

    25. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by space_jake · · Score: 1

      They don't want to put all their eggs in one basket.

    26. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      Here's the philosophy: if I make the sale and lose X dollars, then I'm just losing X dollars. For every sale I don't make, I'm effectively losing 2X dollars, because I'm not only not making the sale, but also giving my competitors additional capital which they may use to compete against me.

      If they're not in a market, then they think that they are "losing" twice the entire revenue for that entire industry because any of the players in that market could rise to power and bite them. Of course, they're right, to some degree: Google rose to dominance in search while Microsoft barely had an offering.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    27. Re:Microsoft can't be all things to all people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perishing is ok.

      Textbook finance theory teaches that if you need to diversify, it is better to hold stocks of companies in the diverse business. Or better - distribute dividends and let the share holders do it themselves.

      Or, create a new company focused on the new business and spin it off. Then, if one fails, it is unlikely to bring down the other with it.

      Of course, this is not the way things are done. Again the standard explanation is agency theory - managers would rather secure their jobs than increase share holder value.

  10. Resting on past laurels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Other than maybe Xbox which isn't a major cash cow when have they released a hit product? The vast majority of their revenues still come from Office and Windows and related products. Take away those core products and there's virtually no company. It's not just innovation they seem to have trouble coming up with new products that a majority of people like. If they did have to start from scratch even with all their cash reserves they'd end up a minor player.

    1. Re:Resting on past laurels by winwar · · Score: 1

      I understand this point but does it really matter? If you took away the databases from Oracle, there wouldn't be a company. If you took away the processors from Intel, there wouldn't be a company. If you took away the trains and rail from CSX you wouldn't have a company. Plenty of respected companies depend on mature core products that cannot be replaced. That's how and why they are successful.

    2. Re:Resting on past laurels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not 1984 anymore. You can score a hit without changing the world and even without getting much notice. Microsoft has had a few hits, but mostly in development tools. Microsoft Visual C++ is and has been an excellent product. I first started with Watcom and Borland. Microsoft Visual Basic was pretty big deal, as was C#. DirectX is a very big deal. I can't think of anything else that competes with Open GL in the commercial sector. Microsoft Virtual Earth is a hit, but it's not a product with a specific audience. Microsoft is also doing things in robotics for the defense industry. Zune was a hit, but next to the iPod everything gets eclipsed. Obviously though, much of MS's hits rely on Windows itself remaining a hit.

    3. Re:Resting on past laurels by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      The difference is service. Oracle and CSX provide services - Oracle might provide hardware/software, but it's licensed, not bought. Intel makes widgets, but it continually comes out with new generations of faster and faster widgets.

      The problem is there comes a point where nobody wants to upgrade their OS. And it's software - it doesn't degrade over time. It doesn't "wear out" so you have to buy a new one like physical widgets. In my own personal experience, I've already reached that point. I use Ubuntu now, but prior to that, I'd been on XP for years after Vista had come out, and had no reason to move. Microsoft saw that coming, and has been trying to diversify like the blazes, so that when the crunch-time came, they'd have something else to fall back on.

      It doesn't help that Microsoft also has a competitor that it is utterly incapable of competing against on price. Free is hard to beat. If Intel saw some rising phenomenon that spelled the end of processors, or CSX feared the development of a technology that would render rail obsolete, you'd see the same sort of behaviour in them you see in Microsoft.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    4. Re:Resting on past laurels by minorproblem · · Score: 1

      Xbox & entertainment accounts for something like 20% of their revenue. I don't know many people who would call 20% of 20 Billion chump change. The biggest strategic threat to Microsoft at the moment is the cloud, it has the potential to steal away small business customers, and this is an area where there is a lot of profit.

    5. Re:Resting on past laurels by Ed_1024 · · Score: 1

      ...it's software - it doesn't degrade over time. It doesn't "wear out" so you have to buy a new one...

      Are you *sure* you've used Windows before?

  11. High Profile? Um.... by Aphrika · · Score: 1

    Sorry, never heard of him. Can someone name 10 'high profile' Googlers, Facebookers, Tweeters (maybe not that one), IBMers, Applers? Maybe five... two?

    No, because maybe it doesn't matter. Was he some epic tech innovator, or just a business management type dude? My money's on the latter, and that means nowt.

    1. Re:High Profile? Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I used to work in Bing. Heard of Powerset but not this guy. Principal dev managers are a dime a dozen anyway. There were higher profile people who departed but did not made news.

    2. Re:High Profile? Um.... by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

      Product Manager, i.e. herder of developers. Came from Powerset, who Microsoft bought to pump up MSN Search into BinG!!

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    3. Re:High Profile? Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, never heard of him. Can someone name 10 'high profile' Googlers, Facebookers, Tweeters (maybe not that one), IBMers, Applers? Maybe five... two?

      No, because maybe it doesn't matter. Was he some epic tech innovator, or just a business management type dude? My money's on the latter, and that means nowt.

      For google, there are at least some people who would be recognized: Ken Thompson, Rob Pike, Theodore Ts'o, Andy Rubin, Guido Van Rossum, John Hennessy, Chris DiBona (of /.), Vint Cerf, Larry McVoy, Bram Moolenaar - and we can round it over with Sergey Brin and Larry Page (and even more with execs Eric Schmidt, or even Marissa Mayer)

  12. Re:first bitches by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Gawd, pennystock spammers in /. now, how low did we go!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  13. The person who needs to leave by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is Balmer.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:The person who needs to leave by davester666 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > The person who needs to leave ...
      > is Balmer.

      Why? Does Microsoft bring some inherent value to the software development field?

      IMHO, they have done more to hamper the entire field than everybody else, primarily by using illegal methods to kill a number of really innovative operating systems back in the 80's and 90's.

      And they still try to freeze new markets by spreading FUD while copying existing products instead of actually making something new.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft brought computing to the masses. They had some shoddy products over the years, but they also had an equal number of great products. Overall, I like Microsoft. What ever "harm" they have supposedly done hasn't affected me or most people at all.

    3. Re:The person who needs to leave by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      The masses were already using computers, Commodore were big, as were Atari. They basically played a bait and switch with people who wanted the openness offered by the x86 clone market.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And you'd still be using a Commodore or an Atari if it weren't for the Wintel oligopoly. Do you honestly think said Commodore or Atari would be running at 3 GHz and cost less than a clothes dryer?

    5. Re:The person who needs to leave by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everything old is new again. Some big companies get founded (or expanded way beyond their original size/scope) by famous entrepreneurs (Gates, the Watsons, Westinghouse, Ford(s), etc, etc.) and then are followed by nameless/faceless people who could never live up to the savvy or inspiration of the founders. Your post applies word-for-word to IBM in the late 70s; they'd lost all the big names and the big new innovations, the magic had just worn off, leaving only a whole lot of ugly underneath showing through. Microsoft will weather this. They'll go on to become just another large software company with uninspiring products, like any other - think Computer Associates. You don't criticize General Motors for not making Ferraris, why criticize Microsoft for not making OS X? Also, it's really kind of funny that Slashdot still uses the Bill Gates Borg icon for Microsoft, it hasn't been remotely true for years.

      Apple (almost) went through this (voluntarily) once already with John Scully, it's about to happen again when Steve Jobs dies "suddenly". I expect a lot of "Apple loses their mojo" stories following that.

      And before anyone says I'm some kind of Microsoft asrtoturfer, let me say that I'm a Gentoo-using Microsoft hater of long, long standing. I'm just saying that none of this should be surprising.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    6. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You are delusional.

      Are you honestly trying to say that there were as many Commodore and Atari computer owners as there are Windows PC owners?

      What bait and switch? Even when I got my first PC (a Kaypro 8086) I knew that I didn't have to use MS-DOS. In fact I used PC-DOS for some time, switched to MS-DOS, switched to DR-DOS, never bought Windows 3.x, switched to OS/2, switched to Windows 95 and FreeBSD, switched to BeOS, switched back to Windows 2K and decided to stick with MS ever since because every time I give some Linux distro a go, I end up not liking it. How was that in any way preventing me from having a choice or baiting and switching?

    7. Re:The person who needs to leave by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft has made software development loose something like 20 years of progress. Their main innovations are virus and anti-competitive strategies. Too much of the developers' brain power of these last years has been used to adapt software to new versions of bug-ridden software from Redmond. Maybe is it good that this madness comes to an end and that we can innovate a bit in software insteand of doing reverse-engineering of poorly documented technologies.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    8. Re:The person who needs to leave by digitig · · Score: 1

      Well, my first computer with any Microsoft software on it was my fourth computer. What bought computing to the masses (in the UK at least) was cheap hardware -- the Amstrad 1512/1640 in the UK, although Acorn and Tandy/Radio Shack gave them a tough run for their money in the early days (Commodore and Atari were seen more as games machines here)..

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    9. Re:The person who needs to leave by Zelgadiss · · Score: 2

      Balmer was BillG's right hand man, he is part of the old guard - except unlike BillG he has no vision whatsoever.

      By replacing the old guard, I suppose some of us hope we will get a "new" different MS - hopefully innovative and non-evil.

      MS has a tremdous amount of resources and probably some very smart people working for them, it would be nice to see them put it to good use.

    10. Re:The person who needs to leave by exomondo · · Score: 1

      They basically played a bait and switch with people who wanted the openness offered by the x86 clone market.

      Bait and switch? how so?

    11. Re:The person who needs to leave by DeathSquid · · Score: 1

      The Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 1 ROMS were Microsoft code, so MS have been around forever. Back then, they were the good guys. I recall that their Zilog editor/assembler was the best around at the time.

    12. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Kaypro was actually my second computer, but my first "PC" (as in x86). My very first computer was a Commodore VIC-20. We bought both computers when we were living in the UK (I was an Air Force brat). Cost was our concern when we got the VIC-20, but after my father saw that I had a genuine interest in computers, he bought me the PC.

      So I don't disagree with you about cheap hardware, but Microsoft did have a large part in making PCs accessible and functional for a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't have had the inclination or money to get one. That in turn drove competition amongst PC hardware manufacturers, which in turn improved production efficiency, which in turn drove down prices. That is why we can buy powerful laptop PCs for less than $300 USD now when something like my huge, beige metal box 8086 with 1MB of RAM, floppy drives and a CGA display cost more like $5000 USD.

    13. Re:The person who needs to leave by tedgyz · · Score: 1

      >

      MS has a tremdous amount of resources and probably some very smart people working for them, it would be nice to see them put it to good use.

      Absolutely true. The question is, can they rise above the hoards of mediocre employees to make a difference? I watched DEC succumb to this fate, long before Compaq and HP ate them up.

      --
      "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
    14. Re:The person who needs to leave by digitig · · Score: 1

      The magic words there are "PC hardware manufacturers". What made the difference was the use of generic components and a common operating system, which was IBM's doing, not Microsoft's. Had IBM gone with CP/M rather than MS-DOS I reckon they would have had the same success because it wasn't the OS that made the difference.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    15. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Had IBM gone with CP/M rather than MS-DOS I reckon they would have had the same success because it wasn't the OS that made the difference.

      You're partially right, but the fact is that IBM didn't go with CP/M. They went with Microsoft because they felt it was a better business decision. That decision placed Microsoft squarely in the middle so they ended up being the company that really got the ball rolling on PC adoption.

      IBM didn't want to open the market to generic hardware makers and clones, which is what really hurt them. They tried to introduce proprietary interfaces like MCA once the clone market started taking off to kill generic components. The end result was that most people didn't go for IBM because they could buy cheaper clone PCs that would also run their Microsoft software.

      History is replete with "could haves" and "should haves", but the fact remains that the current popularity and affordability of PCs is in no small part attributable to Microsoft. Had IBM gone with CP/M instead, it could be that DR would be in the exact same position as MS is now; love, hate and everything, just under a different name. That possible outcome doesn't negate history though.

    16. Re:The person who needs to leave by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      exactly. They got it wrong.

      The CHAIR needs to stay.
      BALLMER needs to go.

      There's sure to be a "soviet russia" joke in there somewhere...

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    17. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Balmer was BillG's right hand man, he is part of the old guard - except unlike BillG he has no vision whatsoever.

      Under Gates, Microsoft corporate mission statement was "A PC on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software". Concise and honest. And quite meaningful - if you think about it, pretty much everything MS did in 80s and 90s can be directly traced to this statement.

      Under Ballmer, the current version is "Help people and businesses throughout the world realize their full potential" - i.e. a bunch of generic useless marketing drivel.

      And that's all you really need to know to explain the difference between MS then and MS now.

    18. Re:The person who needs to leave by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      I have conflated your post and your signature: so the Wise have been trying to update their shit to work with Microsoft, and the Fool just uses Linux? I completely agree that Microsoft has retarded software development by at least a decade, likely more, due to their anti-competitive practices that have resulted in numerous corporate corpses.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    19. Re:The person who needs to leave by guruevi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes. I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but back then Intel-based computers were freakin' expensive. The only reason they persisted was 1) severe mismanagement within Commodore/Amiga which had some of the best selling computers with really great features (color display, 8-bit sounds) and 2) the IBM PC internals were very open (as in any company could expand on it).

      The only reason Microsoft got in it's position was mismanagement within their competitors' base (especially Apple) and Microsoft already had a foot in the door selling OEM DOSes to computer manufacturers. Microsoft also sold their products much cheaper (between $15 and $30 compared to $60 for DR-DOS, $250 for CP/M and $200 for OS/2) while those other OS'es had far better system management especially once the 386 came out (Protected Mode and 32-bit being severely behind in MS-DOS until 1998).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    20. Re:The person who needs to leave by Draek · · Score: 1

      Why? Does Microsoft bring some inherent value to the software development field?

      Yeah. They make kickass keyboards and mice for us programmers to use ;)

      Also Visual Studio is incredible, but Eclipse and the rest ain't bad either while Logitech sucks with the strength of a thousand suns, so in the event of Microsoft's demise I'd be more worried about their keyboards.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    21. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      loose - loosened lose - lost

    22. Re:The person who needs to leave by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      Probably not, you point out the benefits that the hardware market being opened up has given us...
      Now consider if those same benefits had extended to software as well?

      Openness in software basically got sacrificed or overlooked as people moved to open hardware, so now we've got to a state where hardware is highly competitive but software is largely dictated by microsoft through marketing and lock-in.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    23. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM did go with CP/M. It was called "86-DOS" or one of the variants of CP/M for the 8086 platform, itself derived from Q-DOS and in competition with Digital Research with "CP/M-86" that already existed. It was Microsoft who purchased the rights to that operating from some other Washington State programmers and repackaged it as PC-DOS 1.0 and later MS-DOS. Much of the file structure and even the commands were identical to CP/M, with about the only difference being that the command prompt for MS-DOS was the "A>" rather than "C>" of CP/M.

      It wasn't even Microsoft programmers who wrote the original version of MS-DOS, nor was it even the superior operating system that sold IBM, but rather the insanely stupid move by Gary Kildall to treat the representatives of IBM as if they were white trash and not worth his time. Had Gary Kildall simply walked out of his office to meet the IBM reps, taken them out to a good dinner, and treated those guys with just a little bit of respect, it is very much possible the history of computing would have been different.

      IBM's move with Microsoft was to license Microsoft BASIC and to commission a series of compilers for the IBM-PC. I will give credit to Bill Gates, however, for the insight that perhaps he could capture the operating system contract at the same time and scrambled to put something together even if it was an inferior product to what Digital Research could put out.

      As for the open architecture of the original PC, that was in part because it was essentially a clone of the S-100 bus computers already on the market and that almost everything in the original IBM 5150 (also known as the "PC") was made by somebody other than IBM. I remember reading a trade journal at the time which suggested the only thing that IBM actually made for the computer was the trademark logo sticker placed on the computer chassis, and even that was suspected as an outsourced component.

      Had IBM stuck with the original IBM 5100 computer and aggressively pushed that machine into the marketplace, computing history would have been substantially different. Unfortunately the mainframe guys felt threatened by the machine because it could run software from the mainframe computers without modification. Then again, the closed nature of the 5100 and its proprietary hardware might have eventually killed that line like eventually happened anyway with IBM computers in the PC market.

      The real pioneer was not Bill Gates nor Microsoft, but rather Ed Roberts and the Altair 8800 computer, without which the IBM-PC would never have been possible in the first place. That is where the open standards came from which IBM was able to exploit, including where the original market for Microsoft products came from that caused Microsoft to even exist as a company when IBM went shopping for operating systems in the first place.

    24. Re:The person who needs to leave by Jerslan · · Score: 1

      ... think Computer Associates ....

      CA is still far worse than Microsoft IMHO. They buy an existing company for the product, then sit on it for 20 years making few to no improvements or upgrades. Just look at AutoSys... *shudder* The "GUI" tools for it are practically useless (or at least the ones we had were); vi, awk, sed, grep, and make were far more effective (but to be fair these tools can still be more efficient than the most well thought out GUI's).

    25. Re:The person who needs to leave by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      You don't criticize General Motors for not making Ferraris, why criticize Microsoft for not making OS X?

      Because, unlike GM and Ferrari, Microsoft and Apple largely overlap for the home and professional (not business) markets. Microsoft wants Windows to be more like OS X -- one look at the Aero UI should tell you that.

      MS's problem is that Windows still has tons of baggage internally that MS is forced to keep for backwards compatibility. Apple finally made the break between OS 9 and OS X. If MS attempted such a break, their business customers would revolt.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    26. Re:The person who needs to leave by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The masses were already using computers, Commodore were big, as were Atari. They basically played a bait and switch with people who wanted the openness offered by the x86 clone market.

      No, that is simply not true. People using Commodores and Ataris were generally people interested in computers in themselves. Microsoft made it possible for every business and home to be able to afford a PC, and the importance of this shouldn't be forgotten.

      Of course, hardcore geeks have never forgiven MS for this, it changed a relatively exclusive hobby into something that everyone had access to.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    27. Re:The person who needs to leave by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      back then Intel-based computers were freakin' expensive.

      No they weren't, that's the whole point. Apple and Amiga computers were the expensive ones.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re:The person who needs to leave by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      MS's problem is that Windows still has tons of baggage internally that MS is forced to keep for backwards compatibility. Apple finally made the break between OS 9 and OS X. If MS attempted such a break, their business customers would revolt.

      And at the time, only a relatively small number of people working in things like graphic design were using Macs, the overall market share was insignificant, so Apple could afford to say "fuck you" and rely on the already-strong Fanboy element in Macland coming along for the ride, whilst expanding their market share base into something like double digits.

      Plus, OS9 was the worst OS in the history of the world, its only competitor being Windows ME in terms of amount of time spent crashing.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    29. Re:The person who needs to leave by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      What you said supports my point.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    30. Re:The person who needs to leave by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You'd rather code on a MS than Logitech keyboard? I use a combination of Logitech and Dell keyboards, and find both more appealing to my hands than anything by MS.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    31. Re:The person who needs to leave by Risen888 · · Score: 2

      Even if I accepted your premise that they "brought computing to the masses" (which needless to say I don't), they don't get to charge rent on it ad infinitum. They've been out-innovated, out-engineered, and just flat out-hustled by the competition for the last decade. They can ride the wave for a little while longer yet, but make no mistake, their fifteen minutes are up.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    32. Re:The person who needs to leave by phillymjs · · Score: 1

      "Apple finally made the break between OS 9 and OS X. If MS attempted such a break, their business customers would revolt."

      Except, they sort of did with Windows 7, and they solved it the same way Apple did-- an XP compatibility environment.

      Technically, there's not much stopping them from doing it for real-- throwing out all the 20 year-old, backward-compatible cruft and making a fresh start from the ground up, while providing a VM for legacy applications. Virtualization technology has improved by leaps and bounds over what was available when Apple transitioned from 9 to X. Hell, since 2006 I can (with the help of VMware or Parallels) run Windows apps on my -Mac- and have it be damn near seamless, there's no reason Microsoft couldn't do the same thing.

      ~Philly

    33. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      doubtful

    34. Re:The person who needs to leave by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft did no such thing...
      Compaq and all the other makers of IBM compatible clones did that, MS just followed along, getting people locked in to relatively cheap software just as they were getting themselves out of being locked in to expensive proprietary hardware.

      MS prices have steadily increased, both in absolute cost and considerably faster in overall percentage of the cost relative to the hardware. DOS used to be $30 of a $2000 computer, now windows is $100 of a $300 computer. It is hardware that has become more affordable.

      The masses *did* use Commodores, many of them were not interested in computers and a lot only wanted to play games (since they couldn't see any other use for a computer at the time). Commodore sold millions of the C64 and a fairly healthy number of Amiga systems too.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    35. Re:The person who needs to leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without Microsoft, nobody would have used PCs. So Commodore sold a few million. Wake me when they've sold over a billion like Microsoft has.

  14. Microsoft have a challenge by gabrielr · · Score: 1

    but with the right people can grow existing markets and create new ones, where I apply?

  15. Mobile strategy by mark72005 · · Score: 1

    The mobile strategy is pretty lame, after all - setting themselves up as a low-rent copy of Apple.

    Combine this with no tablet presence at all, and you have MSFT positioning itself as trying to hold onto the shrinking desktop market.

    1. Re:Mobile strategy by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      The mobile strategy is pretty lame, after all - setting themselves up as a low-rent copy of Apple.

      Well, it worked for Windows, didn't it?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  16. Re:first bitches by anti-human+1 · · Score: 1

    Go ahead, we'll all continue to buy AAPL stock (Apple Computer)

  17. Give it a rest already by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 1

    WinMo 7 has been out for 3 months. In that time it has not gained complete dominance (or close) of the mobile market. Paint me surprised?

    How long was it until Android started gaining any real traction? A lot lot longer if I remember correctly.

    Et fin.

    --
    throw new NoSignatureException();
    1. Re:Give it a rest already by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Hell it has not sold many phones at all. WInMo 7 is stillborn. They will lose money on this and keep it up until WinMo9 when they finally manage to force a product onto the market.

    2. Re:Give it a rest already by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      It sold 1.5 million in the first six weeks. Not exactly floundering.

      http://mashable.com/2010/12/21/windows-phone-7-sales/

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    3. Re:Give it a rest already by chowdahhead · · Score: 1

      This is what I think also. Like the XBox, Microsoft will lose billions in subsidized hardware, advertising, and development to pull marketshare, and they will continue dubious patent threats against Android handset manufacturers to increase production of Microsoft devices. I have to believe that even Microsoft can see the value and future direction of the mobile space, and that they're in this for the long haul.

    4. Re:Give it a rest already by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      It's 1.5 million sold by MS to operators and retail stores. There's still no publicly available figure for the number of phones sold by those operators and stores to actual users.

    5. Re:Give it a rest already by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      The good news is, Windows mobile 7 outsold Kin. Bad news is, it didn't outsell WinCE 6.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    6. Re:Give it a rest already by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      In the first six weeks, 1.5 million shipped to retailers. That was in December. Then MS announces last week that 2 million have been shipped since it launched. That means in the busiest consumer month of the year (December), MS was only able to move 500,000 phones. Even LG has noted that WP7 sales were less than expected. I'd hardly call that a smashing success.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    7. Re:Give it a rest already by Draek · · Score: 1

      I still remember the same thing being said with respect to Android and the futility to go against Apple's dominance, and yet here we are.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    8. Re:Give it a rest already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How long did the XBox take to become a force ? 5 years ? 10 years ? These battles aren't "3 month" battles. An MS guy told me this is a 5 year battle win Win Phone 7.

    9. Re:Give it a rest already by Airline_Sickness_Bag · · Score: 1

      >

      Android had to start out at ground level. Microsoft had been making smartphone OS's for years. (Windows Mobile 2003; Windows Mobile 5; Windows Mobile 6; Windows Mobile 6.5)

  18. It is about choice Neo by deadline · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Many people first used Windows not by choice, but by mandate -- there was no other option and the Microsoft monopoly made sure it stayed that way. (unless you bought a Mac) My guess is many people have found the MS experience frustrating and a general PITA, but there was never any other choice. They had to live with the shoddy time wasting experience Microsoft called computing.

    Now given the option of having their "desktop experience" on their "phone" or "pad" I am sure many people are interested in real alternatives. My prediction is no matter how hard Microsoft tries to play the "we are the future of computing because we invented everything" song and dance, most users will chose iOS and Android for exactly that reason. Hi-tech karma at its best.

    --
    HPC for Primates. Read Cluster Monkey
    1. Re:It is about choice Neo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One man retired. Company in ruins.

    2. Re:It is about choice Neo by rsborg · · Score: 1

      If Microsoft doesn't cannibalize windows, someone else (probably Google) will do it for them... Apple is already taking a large chunk of the high end.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    3. Re:It is about choice Neo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sorry but this is a pile of steam s**t that you are spewing. Obviously you did not go through the nightmare pre-Windows. Hardware only worked with specific pieces of other hardware and software. Apple in those days sold you everything and heaven forbid that you connected something that was not Apple blessed.

      Windows is where it is because people chose it. It was not forced down their throats. Though what did happen is that momentum with Windows caused things to slow down and become overweight. Through all of that time I have used Windows and Linux. And with the release of Ubuntu 10.10 I have to finally say I don't need Windows. Now FINALLY things just work with Ubuntu!

      I would not say that most people will choose iOS and Android because iOS is so locked down it makes Microsoft look like open source. I find it stunning that you hate Microsoft, and call Apple an alternative. Apple is not! Android is...

  19. How about... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    They do that thing they did with other corporations and their products?
    Like Google, Apple, Intel, Android, iOS, Facebook (both the square AND the rectangular version), SONY...

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  20. Last one out... by haus · · Score: 1

    ... be sure to power down the NT box running hotmail.

    1. Re:Last one out... by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 2

      It's actually a BSD box, but don't tell anyone.

    2. Re:Last one out... by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      I thought they ran Linux. Oh, wait, it is bing that runs it.

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
    3. Re:Last one out... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      If they kept it running FreeBSD it would still work, and they would be much more proeminent (ok, untill they started losing data and cancelling the accounts of people that don't check their email on vacations). But they changed to Windows as soon as they bought the company, and lost most of its clients.

  21. Depends on the number of people by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I've worked in a large range of companies.

    I'd say anything under 100 people is "small", or small enough that you gain most of the same benefits in terms of increased responsibility and some lack of excessive management that you get from a "large" company.

    A company that size, could be doing 100m in sales (didn't say if that was gross or net after all).

    Even if it's mid-size though you can often be better off than with a truly large and ossified company. Certainly I think that would be true early on in your career where increased variety of duties means you learn a lot more.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Depends on the number of people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sales are sales. There is no such thing as "gross sales" or "net sales", dingus.

    2. Re:Depends on the number of people by Amouth · · Score: 1

      i agree - i work for a small biz - and i could see my self in a mid sized one - but never in a large corp.. there is a point where the politics take over and people lose sight of what is important for the company and it's people. i wouldn't last more than a year in that environment, because i don't like playing games just to be able to do my work.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  22. Steve Ballmer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps it is time for Steve Ballmer to go?

  23. maybe Balmer needs to go by bunhed · · Score: 1

    I don't know what goes on in Redmond but I have never been able to figure out why Balmer speaks out loud. I have no doubt he is a smart man but the guy scares me and as a face for a company that I am supposed to trust with my business, I think that a simple logo would be far more reassuring. I think if I worked for him, I would have the old resume spic and span too.

  24. But who will fill the power vacuum? by zanderz · · Score: 1

    Many industry observers fear that Muslim extremism will prevail in the struggle over the future of this proud corporation. Obama is urging Balmer not to run again for CEO, as many citizens call for his ouster via Twitter, SMS and phone messages. The army is showing forbearance as employees demonstrate freely and peaceably in the streets. The whole world watches as the outcome is bound to send ripples through the entire industry.

  25. And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...Roz Ho, destroyer of worlds, still works for Microsoft. I guess Windows Mobile 8 for the win then, eh Roz? Maybe this time you'll get it right.

  26. Mini Microsoft finally checked in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with a new post, his first in about four months. He was so quiet after Muglia's departure that I was beginning to suspect he was Muglia! As usual, check out the entertaining and informative bitching^H^H^H^H^H^H^H posts from readers, who seem to be mostly Softies, ex-Softies, along with some trolls pretending to be same. It's the public online version of Redmond's water color.

    To sum up, he thinks that Windows President Steve Sinofsky is waiting in the wings for Ballmer's eventual departure.

  27. Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Foredecker · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have no idea why this made the news. The artcile says he is "a" principle development manger, not "the" principle development manger.

    "Principle" is a job title:

    • Software Devleopers (lowest rank)
    • Software Devloper -II
    • Senior Software Developers
    • Principle Software Developers
    • Partner Software Developers
    • Distinguished Engineer
    • Fellow

    Mangers go like this

    • "Lead" - manger of individual contributes
    • "Manger" manger of mangers
    • "Director" manger of manager of managers
    • VP

    For several years, I was "a" princpiple development manger in Windows. Im now a principle lead becuase there was a specific team I wanted to be a part of. If I leaft, it would be news.

    -foredecker

    --
    Jibe!
  28. Or instead the... by sokoban · · Score: 1

    ... Developers, developers, developers, developers.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
    1. Re:Or instead the... by h00manist · · Score: 1

      ... Developers, developers, developers, developers.

      That's what Linux/open source needs.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  29. How lucrative can they be? by amightywind · · Score: 1

    Microsoft's stock price is down 20% over 10 years. Their chart really stinks. Most options have long expired. That alone will drive away the best people.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:How lucrative can they be? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      You don't think the "velvet handcuffs" aren't renewed from time to time?

      I thought it was the general practice to keep granting appropriate number of ISO/NQSO/RSU for your mid-to-high-performers... at least that's how it was when I was a big-company employee.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    2. Re:How lucrative can they be? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's why years ago they switched from "stock options" to "stock grants", giving away the stock instead of asking the employee to purchase it. (Of course, the employee gets fewer shares now, but the benefit to the employee is generally much greater, especially with a stock that's trending down long-term.)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  30. Borg Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's a different picture of Borg Gates then I'm used to is all I can say.

  31. I've always found it disturbing by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

    Steve Ballmer should have been fired immediately after his infamous DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS monkey dance. Seriously. This is the guy you want running the biggest software company in the world? However, all the articles I've read always say two disturbing things:

    (1) Microsoft's Board of Directors thinks Steve Balmer is just wonderful because during the 10 years he has been CEO Microsoft's revenue has tripled and profits have doubled.

    (B) Even if they wanted to get rid of Balmer, there's nobody who can replace him. Really? What happens if he dies suddenly tomorrow

  32. Healthy by Corson · · Score: 1

    I would say these changes are healthy for Microsoft. Come to think about it, if someone really believes M$ is in a bad position then it's time the "culprits" got going. Or maybe the Redmond folks are just looking foward to replenishing their higher ranks with younger people who don't carry the scars of the times past. Either way, predicting the demise of Microsoft (again!) has really become boring. Trial and error is the name of the game and they can afford it.

    1. Re:Healthy by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Losing a vast majority of the senior executives is "healthy". What have you been smoking? If you lost a large number of execs where you worked, you should be looking for another job because it's not good news. The problem with your supposition is that MS is not replenishing their ranks. Some of the major execs have left and have not really been replaced outright. Either Ballmer or another exec takes on more responsibility. And I don't know if you've been paying attention but MS isn't exactly attracting an influx of young talent. Over the last several years, they've laid off people more than they've hired.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  33. You should have it this good. by westlake · · Score: 2, Informative

    Given how Microsoft has faltered in the marketplace, has failed to innovate and continues to misunderstand its customers, perhaps the old guys need to go.

    Microsoft Reports Record $0.77 Earnings Per Share in Second Quarter

    Among the factors driving Microsoft's record revenues and earnings per share was the 55% growth in revenue for the Entertainment & Devices Division, as the success of the Kinect sensor boosted sales of Xbox 360 consoles, Xbox Live subscriptions and Xbox games.
    Microsoft Business Division revenue grew 24% year-over-year. Office 2010 is the fastest-selling consumer version of Office in history, with license sales over 50% ahead of Office 2007 over an equivalent period following launch.

    Microsoft announced it has now sold over 300 million Windows 7 licenses, and Windows 7 is now running on over 20% of Internet-connected PCs.

    The company announced that during the quarter, it bought back $5 billion in stock and declared $1.3 billion in dividends.

  34. History repeats itself by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Back when "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM", they had an exodus of top talent, too -- just before things went south for the company. Luckily, they were in the process of repositioning them self as a service company instead of a hardware company.

    Both companies followed the same "fat-cat" syndrome. Small lean company innovates and captures a large part of the market. As company grows, focus shifts to maintaining status quo. Company becomes too large and lazy (fat cat) to respond quickly to changing environment. Somebody else becomes the new lean tiger. Pattern repeats for new comer. Fat cat isn't just for technology companies. It happens in all industries. It's just that change occurs so quickly in technology companies that instead of taking decades to be toppled, it happens in years. Both IBM and Microsoft lasted longer at the top of their game than most technology companies, but the same forces are still at work.

    Back when they were trying to bust up Microsoft for being a monopoly (again, same thing happened to IBM), was when they needed to change. Microsoft had the opportunity to get rid of all competition with Office by improving the product. Instead, they chose to change file formats to try and make the competitors incompatible. That is a very short sighted solution, as it also makes your own installed product base incompatible. Next, they re-did the interface, but still didn't really improve upon the functionality. Next they played around with pricing structures and actually started to remove features, accept for the top end product. Again, not a long term growth strategy. A similar scenario played out with the browser and the OS itself.

    Meanwhile, others in the tech industry have been chipping away at Microsoft. Nobody is saying that OpenOffice/LibreOffice will topple Microsoft Office. It doesn't have to. Just like Mozilla, Safari and now Chrome, it only has to take a percentage of small percentage of market share to make a big impact on Microsoft's bottom line.

    It's like the prevent defense in football (American Football, that is). It may keep the opposing team from making the big play, but gives up a tremendous amount of yardage in the process. Then, one small mistake and the opposing team scores.

    Microsoft, like many before it, has become too large and inflexible to adjust to quick change in the modern market and relies on protecting itself with a prevent defense. The problem with that is that in football, you only need to keep the other team from scoring until the clock runs out. In business, there is no clock to signal the end of the game.

    1. Re:History repeats itself by Pro923 · · Score: 1

      What you described is exactly what is supposed to happen in a healthy free market driven economy. It's just the life cycle of a company. What I still can't get my head around is where the US government gets involved in "bailing out" these aging companies. Had we just let nature take it's course, we'd have less major auto manufacturers and the door would be open for innovation - but I guess we have to put that off and wait another several years for the bailout money to run dry.

    2. Re:History repeats itself by Stuntmonkey · · Score: 1

      The golden rule of tech is simple: You've got to love the product. Not developers, not market share, not a clever strategy, not the bottom line -- you've got to love the product. You must have a burning need to improve it, polish it, and then replace it with something better because you love that even more. I'm not convinced that Balmer has ever loved the product. They're a big company so it will take a long time for the world to pass them by, but the direction is unmistakeable.

    3. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >It's like the prevent defense in football (American Football, that is). It may keep the opposing team from making the big play, but gives up a tremendous amount of yardage in the process. Then, one small mistake and the opposing team scores.

      It really is like prevent defense, but the difference (and why prevent defense tends to be effective) is there is an end to a game. In business, your play ends when you end, rather than by the clock. No wonder Microsoft is losing.

    4. Re:History repeats itself by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      What you described is exactly what is supposed to happen in a healthy free market driven economy. It's just the life cycle of a company. What I still can't get my head around is where the US government gets involved in "bailing out" these aging companies. Had we just let nature take it's course, we'd have less major auto manufacturers and the door would be open for innovation - but I guess we have to put that off and wait another several years for the bailout money to run dry.

      What you say is true, but leaves out the human suffering that goes along with it. If people were able to freely locate wherever jobs were at the time they were needed, that would minimize the suffering. There is an excellent book titled Aftershock: The Next Economy and America's Future, by Robert Reich that goes into much more detail than I could ever go through here. It should be a must read for every politician and anyone interested in the US's economic growth.

    5. Re:History repeats itself by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      So, instead of letting people couple with change you want to avoid suffering by giving the market to less able companies, that are less productive, what makes everybody poorer. Exchanging a little bit of suffering on the short term for a huge amount (it compounds with time) of suffering on the long term, that is what people do best.

    6. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with that. Growing up, my Dad was a leather tanner. Along with his brothers, they owned and operated their own tannery - which for many years was very successful. Some time in the 80s, leather tanneries in the US became unable to compete with the cheaper costs from the companies overseas. Where was the government back then to step in and bail out the US tanneries? Of course they didn't, this role of government was unheard of back then and would have been considered insane. We all moved on... The reality is that an economic system HAS to mimic the laws of nature and natural selection. Anything other than that becomes a phony - where you're borrowing against reality, and you're actually stunting the growth of what "could have been" if a vacuum were created. I'm not cruel - and I don't think that people who's professions become obsolete deserve to starve, but I couldn't be convinced that ANY government intervention on the success or failure of any business would lead to anything but eventual disaster.

    7. Re:History repeats itself by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      The problem is, following your reasoning, that taken to its logical conclusion, there will be no manufacturing business left in the United States. Why, because labor is so much cheaper overseas. So, yes, the government could keep out and let wages follow supply and demand. With such a large supply, overall wages decrease dramatically. Then there aren't enough consumer dollars to purchase goods and services, which causes more layoffs and things continue to spiral downward.

      Right now, the middle class does not have enough purchasing power to sustain the economy (unless they borrow). The economy requires exporting goods to other countries. As manufacturing shrinks, in the above scenario and in real life, what is available to export decreases, too. Ultimately, there are two choices either we accept high unemployment (and the associated government subsidies) or we all accept a significantly lower standard of living.

      There is, actually, a third option. Accept a flat standard of living until the rest of the world catches up at which time amercian labor will be competitive with emerging markets. However, to most people, that would seem no different than a lower standard of living.

      Unemployment is at record highs, how many more people would you want out of work if the government hadn't stepped in?

  35. As an ex-Bing'er myself... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can see why people feel the need to bail out of Bing and Microsoft. I worked in Live Search and then Bing for four years, finally getting up to L65 SDE until I left last year. Internally, it's politics as usual just like with the rest of the company. No one cares if you're doing good work unless you have friends in high places. The yearly reviews and the stack-ranking (forced evaluation curve) really hurt morale, and the fact that the OSD unit is losing $2 billion a year doesn't help. I talk with my colleagues from Google, and from what I can tell from comparison, everything going on inside of Bing is second-rate. The management style is worse, the day-to-day work schedules are worse, the experimental platforms are worse, the tools and map-reduce system are worse, the food is worse and quite expensive, and heck, even the building I worked in sucked (you have to take one elevator, then take the stairs, and then another elevator to get to the cafeteria on the top floor). I still remember my last division all-hands when the VP cheered us on, saying that our search share had increased -- only that it was because we had bought share from Yahoo. So to my former friends still inside: congratulations on your ever-increasing gain in NDCG! No one outside cares.

  36. Is Microsofts strategy partly why they leave? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One can only hope that the real reason the good people are leaving in droves is the business methods and strategy.
    If I remember correctly a key statement from Steve (The Balrog) Ballmer was something to the effect... very soon hardware will be worth nothing and IP will be the real money. This implies that the Microsoft strategy is to deliberately devalue the worth of high tech goods, and in this they have certainly succeeded.

    The methodology is to make reusing a product not worth the effort for the consumer...they just go out and by a new device and in doing so wind up paying money to Redmond indirectly. This troll at the bridge economic strategy has worked very well....but with the advent of cheap internet and business ready tablets the equation changes. He who builds the most robust and longest lasting mobile hardware will win the OS war. Lets face it the fastest and quickest boot with features that are really simple is the way to go. Things like I7 sandybribge is a huge overkill, and will not be economically effective on tablets. So the historic Intel/Microsoft way of doing things is about to hit a brick wall.

    The only real ace Microsoft has left is to play they the old... It Only Works With Genuine Windows... game, by making sure that their mobile device OS offering is absolutely the only way to connect with the office.

    My prediction is that there will be a flood of cheap consumer grade tablets and only the ones that can connect to the home or office net will succeed. So unless Apple goes to bed with Ballmer and Android finds an effective citrix like capable app that can run .net crap and work like the Linux Citrix client to do remote work Microsoft will just wait it out and push out the competition the same way they screwed over IBM and Netscape and and ...

    One can only hope that the people that are leaving Microsoft see the economic consequences and are starting to realise that perhaps very soon the business and home consumer is going to revolt at the costs to society of all this material waste and stupidity created by 1; our greed 2; the corporate greed and legislative stupidity that allows one corporation to dominate an entire industry.

    All you have to do is see the child labour being used currently in the third world to extract all the gold and rare earth elements as cheaply as possible from circuit boards to realise that what Microsoft is doing is completely unsustainable and will eventually cause huge economic woes for more than just the US and the so called first world. Just perhaps some of these intelligent and dedicated individuals that have been working for Microsoft are starting to see the consequences of the Balrog of Mount Rainier. Cutting down all the trees leaves a clear vista, but beware when you can no longer see a forest because there are no trees. If there is another severe economic downturn Microsoft will be an early casualty, because the business and home consumer just is not going to run out and buy the latest and greatest. Like during the depression people will just make do with what they have, and the business strategy of Microsoft will fail miserably.

  37. hiybbprqag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hiybbprqag, I say.

    1. Re:hiybbprqag by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      hiybbprqag, I say.

      Copycat!

  38. Look at that! by morgauxo · · Score: 1

    It's like rats deserting a sinking pirate ship.

  39. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Good lord, it's "principal"!

  40. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    helpful hint: you might want to turn on the IE option that puts the red squiggle under misspelled words.

    posted anon so as to merely whisper.

  41. Good riddance by bl8n8r · · Score: 1

    Finally.

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
  42. Doesn't MS have mad cash reserves? by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    As in they could coast for years without bringing in a dime?

    I wouldn't count them out any time soon.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  43. Not exodus -- viral bloom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's not an exodus. It's the next stage of viral infection. The carriers are now spreading out to other businesses to finish the transformations. (Many businesses began transforming years ago, as the BillG became their CEO's god). It is necessary for these infectious units to leave the mother colony because the hosts are beginning to notice the damages from the parasite.

    We will achieve the One Microsoft Way. You will become a proper revenue generation unit regardless of what business or government you serve. We thank you for your contributions to our cause.

  44. bureaucrats! bureaucrats! bureaucrats! by yalap · · Score: 1

    Tried renewing our partnership membership today. After jumping through several hoops (and wading through too many conditions, clauses, initiatives) finally was able to qualify to join. But wait, we would be better using this option in the same partner program! let's join that! it is more money but it's worth it. Click to join, more hoops, more agreements to click on, more questions and answers and finally we qualify for it. But wait! there is another membership!? you can't do that! Impossible! So go read the support forums, here is a list of 20 you can read to get help. Each link 'access denied'. You want Google GWT? download it. Java? go download it? PHP? apache software? linux? click a link and you get it. Microsoft is stuck defending their huge government and corporate accounts and have a bureaucracy to match. And by eating their own dogfood (everything must use Active Directory/IIS/Sharepoint/Exchange) they have become a monoculture of technology. Maybe it's time for the Baby Bills model.

  45. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot "interns".

  46. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kinda makes you wonder if s/he's a great coder, doesn't it? Not because it's a big mistake, but the title is on his (I'll assume male) business card and clearly he is slightly obsessed with it. I think a really good coder should have excellent textual recognition within a very restricted domain/vocabulary, so they can quickly spot when something is out of place.

    What I'm saying is I call BS on foredecker being all that at MS.

  47. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got an idea for Microsoft: hire people who can spell.

  48. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "artcile", "Devleopers", "Devloper", "manger" (repeatedly), "princpiple", "leaft"... are you stupid, drunk, or both?

  49. Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by bussdriver · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) it was developed and researched outside microsoft - they bought the tech and payed to have it mass produced; the concepts involved are even older.

    2) The motion capture craze was created by Nintendo years ago and before that they attempted the idea with the failed power glove because the tech wasn't good enough back then to pull it off. (Although I saw a university VR lab put that glove to use as a 6degree motion controller)

    3) Kinect is not that innovative, its an improvement to an existing idea of Nintendo's. Arguably, its not even an improvement because for many Wii games you only need the acceleration motions to play just fine and after the 1st hours of swinging around like an idiot I discovered I could do just as well sitting down using much smaller motions. I'm not just talking about the simple applications where the motion is really simple. Its more flexible to different styles of input. The kinect is a literal minded approach to somebody who doesn't quite "get it" which is typical Microsoft thinking. Take the motion thing and throw money at it and buy everything that lets you technically do the thing as well or better at an initially HUGE expense. They miss the concept of your natural inclination to move the controller about while STILL holding a controller and go 150% for capturing my body's motion. Its great for dance and stuff but its targeting an even SMALLER niche than nintendo's technically limited approach. If Nintendo did kinect, it would be done better because they are the true creative thinkers.

    1. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nintendo had nothing to do with the Power Glove.

      Motion capture never caught on because the equipment for it was never very good, until Kinect.

    2. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by exomondo · · Score: 1

      1) it was developed and researched outside microsoft - they bought the tech and payed to have it mass produced; the concepts involved are even older.

      Most companies do that. It's the *product* that is innovative, pulling all the tech into one product for the consumer.

      2) The motion capture craze was created by Nintendo years ago and before that they attempted the idea with the failed power glove because the tech wasn't good enough back then to pull it off. (Although I saw a university VR lab put that glove to use as a 6degree motion controller)

      And the idea for tablet computers was around long before the ipad. But look at where they are, again it's the *product*, the execution that makes it a success, an innovative way to allow consumers to have those existing inventions.

      3) Kinect is not that innovative, its an improvement to an existing idea of Nintendo's.

      You obviously have no idea what kinect is if you think it's merely an improvement on Nintendo's idea. You might as well say the Prius is not innovative at all, it's just an improvement on the Model-T. And iphone isn't innovative, it's just an improvement over Nokia 3210, which was just an improvement on the Motorola DynaTAC.

      They miss the concept of your natural inclination to move the controller about while STILL holding a controller and go 150% for capturing my body's motion. Its great for dance and stuff but its targeting an even SMALLER niche than nintendo's technically limited approach.

      That is not a *natural* concept, if you're controlling a full-body motion avatar in a dance game, or fitness game or anything like kinect Adventures then the most natural inclination is to NOT use a controller. Unlike Nintendo they aren't marketing this as the be-all and end-all, it's just best for certain cases, just as the best controller for a racing game is a racing wheel.

      If Nintendo did kinect, it would be done better because they are the true creative thinkers.

      Probably not. The Wii is too gimicky and niche as it is and the power glove wasn't their invention.

    3. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by ediron2 · · Score: 1
      Huh, I coulda sworn Johnny Lee was (A) innovative and (B) working at microsoft. And that his blog (procrastineering.blogspot.com) raves about the smarter-than-him crowd he's with. (what the hell is wrong with slashcode? I've got sixteen \n's and 2

      tags and this paragraph still won't end!)

      The rest of your rant reads a lot like antimac screeds calling osx, the ipod, then the iphone being co-opted rehashes of (insert mumblemumble). That doesn't matter -- Kinect is better by the bottom line: it sells like hotcakes and has features that force the market to compete with it.

      tl;dr: Kinect is a game-changer.

      Sorry it doesn't fit your vision of Microsoft being a kludgeworks, but neither do (for their own reasons) Win Server 2k8, XBox Live, Powershell, Windows 7, Sharepoint, etc. The truth is somewhere in between. Given corporate tendencies to bloat with bureaucracies, I'm actually impressed with the last few years of MSFT.

      (Full Disclosure: I admin Linux servers at work and have 2 of 9 of my own computers/handhelds running OSX or Linux -- so I'm definitely NOT a win fanboy)

    4. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by ediron2 · · Score: 1

      (.... sigh, johnny went to google Jan 18, 2011... why the hell didn't *that* exit make slashdot?) That reinforces the braindrain message from TFA, but I still believe many microsoft technologies drive markets. Not Bing (how busted do you have to be to copy a competitor and still score several percent lower?)

    5. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      Ok I may have been reaching with the Nintendo Power Glove since I remember it as a kid and don't know the specifics behind it other than the impressive hacking done with it in the late 90s as a controller for a quarter million dollar VR machine of the day.

      Motion capture caught on with the Wii not the Kinect; have you been in a cave? Or does that huge success not count because YOU were not interested?

    6. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      The concept goes mostly Nintendo; MS gets no credit. Kinect's method of implementing the general concept (and being more literal minded) is NOT that new. The implementation is new to the consumer market but the technology involved isn't that new or theirs. Seems like a logical cheapening of existing stuff.

      Innovation is a marketing term, there is little going on in the consumer sector and far more going on in universities than people realize.

      Prius - nope. not innovative from what I've seen; having followed that sort of thing for some time I didn't see anything clever outside the transmission design - quite clever and I've never thought of good uses for planetary gears... doesn't mean that somebody else hasn't thought of using them in a transmission... maybe they get some credit for that. But using a mix of gas and electric isn't new at all. The electronics system possibly, but that isn't my area.

      The wii has many games that are "too gimicky" but a lot of people don't get it-- the 1st party titles are not like the others.

      Power glove-- possibly your right; don't know other than I was a kid when it came out - not worth looking it up.

    7. Re:Kinect is not Microsoft innovation by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The concept goes mostly Nintendo; MS gets no credit.

      Exactly which concept? You do realise kinect is a 'controller-less' product, unlike anything nintendo has.

      Innovation is a marketing term, there is little going on in the consumer sector and far more going on in universities than people realize.

      And we're looking at it in terms of products delivered to the consumer. Most consumers don't care about the origin of the research, just about who packages a whole lot of those different technologies into one consumer product.

      But using a mix of gas and electric isn't new at all.

      Obviously, but the computer systems involved in making it work seamlessly are.

  50. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you were a Principal anything, you would know how to spell "Principal".

  51. Good, Get Some New Ones. by neural.disruption · · Score: 1

    So much noise about some CS bachelor turned into IT Manager. He wants to leave? Good for him! What does that means to MS? Almost nothing, they'll just promote some younger and more energetic developer to take over.

  52. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

    Good lord, it's "principal"!

    That's right; we all know Microsoft has no principles.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  53. "The iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business" by westlake · · Score: 2, Informative

    URL Fix: Microsoft Reports Record $0.77 Earnings Per Share in Second Quarter

    Here is another look at Microsoft's second quarter.

    Microsoft may be a big, sprawling company, but it's hardly acting like a deer in the headlights facing a speeding Steve Jobs at the wheel. Given the decades-old and often bitter rivalry between Apple and Microsoft, that narrative is tempting. But a deeper look into Microsoft's report reveals a company that's surprisingly nimble for its size.

    First of all, the idea that Microsoft can't create a phenomenon like the iPad anymore simply isn't true. The iPad sold 2 million units in its first 60 days. The Kinect sold four times as many, tapping mainstream interest much sooner.

    What's especially interesting is that the Kinect sold so well despite the lack of buzz in the tech media. Comparing Google search and news trends for the word "Kinect" with that of "iPad," and you'll find that the iPad attracted much more of the public conversation. And yet the Kinect's 8 million sales in November and December surpassed the 7.3 million iPads that Apple sold in the entire fourth quarter.

    Factoring out the effect of the Windows launch, Microsoft estimated growth around 3%, "in line with PC market growth." Again, 3% growth isn't terrific, but it's nowhere near as bad as the headline figure suggests.

    Even if Microsoft's Windows revenue does start to slide in coming years, the company can weather the blow. Sure, Windows revenue makes up a quarter of Microsoft's total sales. But its business-software division -- including Office, as well as SharePoint and Exchange -- contributes 30% of its revenue, and that division expanded its profit by 35% last quarter.

    Other divisions are seeing similarly strong profit growth. Microsoft's server and tools division, which makes up another 22% of revenue, saw its profit rise by 21%. And the entertainment group, which makes Xbox and Kinect and accounts for 19% of revenue, posted profit growth of a whopping 86%.

    The threat of tablets to Microsoft is real and shouldn't be trivialized. But neither should Microsoft's ability to keep sales and profits growing in other areas of its broad-based businesses.

    No, the iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business

    1. Re:"The iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business" by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      No, the iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business

      On the corporate side, probably not... yet.

      On the consumer side? It's already eaten heavily into netbooks, where Microsoft had finally managed to gain some sort of majority.

      In the tablet market, which Microsoft had pretty much all to itself for the past *10* years? Microsoft will be lucky to even become relevant in tablets again, what with Android coming into the picture there (nearly the rest of the tablet market belongs to Android-powered tablets). This is in spite of the fact that you can buy an HP Slate 500 right now with Windows 7 on it.

      Six months is too early to proclaim the death of anybody, but if the iPod and iPhone are any indication, Microsoft is going to remain toast in the tablet realm for a very long time. It may even have one hell of a fight on its hands just to keep hold of consumer PCs and laptops as time passes and tablets make even deeper inroads.

      Incidentally, the big hopes that the pro-Microsoft crowd have pinned on WP7 are beginning to fade. The Kinect is even shaping up to become a passing fad (so far, the only data on Kinect we have is during the past Christmas shopping season - a perfect time to sell toys, you know... and the Wii is *still* out-selling the thing by almost a factor of two).

      Is Microsoft going to die or go broke? Probably not in this decade. However, I can very easily see Microsoft being slowly forced to cede the entire consumer market, (save for maybe the XBox) to the competition. Microsoft will likely end up being a corporate/enterprise software house, and probably spin off or sell the whole XBox side of things (after all, they have yet to realize ROI on it, and the next gen is likely due in 2-3 years). They're probably going to lose the mobile realm to Apple and Google. They've already (IMHO) lost the tablet market to Apple and Google. After that, the rest starts moving inward, as people realize that they really don't need Windows for much at home anymore.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:"The iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business" by Draek · · Score: 1

      Remember back when we all believed Linux would rule the world through netbooks? and how, only a year later, we were complaining about how pretty much every new model came with Windows 7 instead?

      I sincerely hope Android fares better than good ol' Ubuntu did, but you can't blame me for having my doubts about it.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    3. Re:"The iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business" by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Remember back when we all believed Linux would rule the world through netbooks? and how, only a year later, we were complaining about how pretty much every new model came with Windows 7 instead?

      Yes, but there is a big difference: Microsoft had Windows XP to throw into the breach. In the cases of mobile and tablets, they don't really have much of anything: Windows Phone 7 is a move in that direction, but apparently isn't appealing all that well. In tablets, Microsoft insists on using a pen/stylus centric Windows 7 - that's not going to get them very far...

      I sincerely hope Android fares better than good ol' Ubuntu did, but you can't blame me for having my doubts about it.

      Understood, to a degree. But again, netbooks, which look like laptops (only smaller) already had Windows XP right there.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:"The iPad Is Not Killing Microsoft's Business" by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Anticompetitive practices killed the Linux netbooks just like they killed the Linux PCs, and by doing that, they doomed the entire netbook market to be filled with pieces of junk, with very little market appeal, since very little innovation is possible when using Windows.

      Now we are seeing that innovation migrate to another kind of device, the smartphone. That is making it popular, and it is yet out of the reach of Microsoft. Maybe when devices become more powerfull, the non-Windows ones will start to be unavailable for selling, just like the netbooks, and the specification (followed by the price) of all of them will go up just enough to run Windows. If that happens, expect creative people to launch another class of device, that is just not powerfull enough to run Windows, but that has plenty of interesting uses. Again.

  54. Scott Prevost who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love bashing Microsoft like the rest of us, but this guy was only a dev manager! Why don't we talk about the college hire tester who left for Goldman Sachs this month on the front page of Slashdot, while we're at it!

    If you're not familiar with Microsoft, dev managers are middle management. They manage line managers and have little impact on the product vision, features, or strategy. The principal title is very misleading if you think he was important. Plus, he was only there for 2 years -- which should be suspicious to any hiring manager. From his LinkedIn profile he now is a VP at eBay. Who wouldn't make a jump from middle management to executive? This looks more poorly on eBay to me than Microsoft.

    And I'm not saying Microsoft is the place to be... but what a non-story!

    His profile

  55. Strategy? by aaronfaby · · Score: 1

    "...Redmond's cloud and mobile strategies don't seem to be paying off."

    This statement assumes that they actually have a strategy.

    1. Re:Strategy? by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      "...Redmond's cloud and mobile strategies don't seem to be paying off."

      This statement assumes that they actually have a strategy.

      They have clearly pushed themselves to the media, and have received pretty positive press. They have had a half billion Marketing Campaign. Launched on multiple Phones/Carriers/Counties/Manufacturers. As well as various patent threats payouts for their FAT filesystem and ability to get emails from exchange to make the golden boy Android look more tarnished. Thrown in a bit of Monopoly fun Xbox Live/Office...all done on high end hardware to make it perform well. I think they have pretty much done everything other than produce an OS that Customers are willing choose a phone with.

  56. Speak for yourself, not for 90,000 employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I'll say is that I don't share your experience. I'm pretty happy at MS. I'm sure it varies from team to team but I've been pretty impressed by the customer focus my product group has compared to my prior work experience.

  57. Re:first bitches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh, what do you think MS employees do with their stock awards anyway?..

  58. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I leaft, it would be news.

    Yes, yes it would. Blooming would probably make some headlines also.

  59. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does being a princpiple Devloper manger require being able to spell? Or were you only in Windows ME?

    While the developer information looks mostly correct - I thought there was an SDEIII, but may be mistaken. Distinguished and Fellow have nothing to do with rankings or seniority. Merely a very large bonus and some publicity. The management chain you listed also isn't very fleshed out at all in comparison, and is missing quite a few levels - even the level you claim to have been isn't listed.

    Given the number of mistakes and misconceptions given by your post, I highly doubt you actually worked at Microsoft - especially in the position you stated.

  60. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no idea why this made the news. The artcile says he is "a"
    principle development manger, not "the" principle development manger.

    "Principle" is a job title:


    •        
    • Software Devleopers (lowest rank)
    • Software Devloper -II
    • Senior Software Developers
    • Principle Software Developers
    • Partner Software Developers
    • Distinguished Engineer
    • Fellow

    Mangers go like this


    •        
    • "Lead" - manger of individual contributes
    • "Manger" manger of mangers
    • "Director" manger of manager of managers
    • VP

    For several years, I was "a" princpiple development manger in Windows.
    Im now a principle lead becuase there was a specific team I wanted to be a part
    of. If I leaft, it would be news.

    -foredecker

    You couldn't spell developer until the third try and you have yet to spell manager correctly, wtf?!

  61. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From your resume you write tools that run timers. No one outside Microsoft would give a shit if you leaft.

  62. Bill Gates... by antdude · · Score: 1

    Does that mean Bill Gates will return to fix his company like Steve Jobs? ;)

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  63. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is Slashdot, if Microsoft's landscaping company quit it'd be news of their imminent demise.

  64. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For several years, I was "a" princpiple development manger in Windows. Im now a principle lead becuase there was a specific team I wanted to be a part of. If I leaft, it would be news.

    Headline would read "person who can barely spell finally gets canned"

  65. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no idea why this made the news. The artcile says he is "a"
    principle development manger, not "the" principle development manger.

    "Principle" is a job title:


    •        
    • Software Devleopers (lowest rank)
    • Software Devloper -II
    • Senior Software Developers
    • Principle Software Developers
    • Partner Software Developers
    • Distinguished Engineer
    • Fellow

    Mangers go like this


    •        
    • "Lead" - manger of individual contributes
    • "Manger" manger of mangers
    • "Director" manger of manager of managers
    • VP

    For several years, I was "a" princpiple development manger in Windows.
    Im now a principle lead becuase there was a specific team I wanted to be a part
    of. If I leaft, it would be news.

    -foredecker

  66. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > "Principle" is a job title:

    No, "Principal" is a job title.

    "Principle" refers to your ethical and moral framework.

    Certainly you can be a principled developer, but it means something completely different to a Principal Developer.

  67. The flip side by aclarke · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, you apparently managed to parlay your time at Microsoft into a job as CTO at a $100M company. Whether or not Microsoft sucked (I believe you), it sounds like it was a stellar career move.

  68. Reality check, please by mangu · · Score: 1

    55% growth in revenue for the Entertainment & Devices Division, as the success of the Kinect sensor boosted sales of Xbox 360 consoles, Xbox Live subscriptions and Xbox games.

    A Christmas launch sure helps, but how long will it last?

    Office 2010 is the fastest-selling consumer version of Office in history, with license sales over 50% ahead of Office 2007 over an equivalent period following launch.

    Hmmm, sort of. If you RTFA you will see that " "Office Deferral" refers to copies of Office 2007 sold at the end of 2009 with guaranteed free upgrades to Office 2010. Half of the consumer revenue increase is due to an accounting technique that shifted items sold in 2009 (viz, Office 2007 with an upgrade guarantee) to income in 2010." and that " reflecting licensing of the 2010 Microsoft Office system to transactional business customers [which is to say, one-time sales]" .

    Also FTFA " If you take out the spike and the deferral, quarterly Windows revenues were up 3 percent year-to-year. If you include the deferral but ignore the spike, you see a 5 percent decrease in Windows revenue year-to-year. And if you include the deferral and the spike, Windows sales were down a whopping 30 percent compared to last year."

    In conclusion, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Accountants' jobs are to pull such numbers from their asses that make the balance sheet look good for investors.

  69. Foredecker - 0 in HOSTS files? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject-line above, & this url:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1467692&cid=30356844

    You said you'd get back to me on this years ago here, in regards to HOSTS files no longer being able to use 0 as a blocking "IP Address" in HOSTS files (vs. the larger & slower parsing 0.0.0.0 + especially 127.0.0.1, which still work in VISTA/Windows7/Server 2008, where 0 does not (but still does work in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003)).

    So - just checking again now: Any word on this as to why it was done?

    APK

    P.S.=> It doesn't make any sense to make the HOSTS file larger than it has to be, bloating it (by 5-8 characters per line using 0.0.0.0 or 127.0.0.1 vs. the smaller & faster 0) & slowing it down on reads/re-reads... did you ever get a determination WHY it was removed (and yet it still works in older MS' Windows NT-based OS')... apk

  70. What are the arguments for company stability? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    The more fields your business dominates, the safer it is.

    What's the value to society of company stability?

    I understand clearly why you as an investor want to use diversification to stabilize a stock portfolio (that spans multiple companies). But who benefits from having one particular company be stable and secure? Risk-averse investors? Don't they buy bonds or ultra-stable, ultra-diversified portfolios anyways?

    1. Re:What are the arguments for company stability? by dakohli · · Score: 1
      Good question.

      I don't think the benefits for society really come into the equation. I mean, you could argue that it provides taxes (minimised of course), jobs. Don't forget that this particular company produces some of the basic software (Windows itself) which is the basis for much of our communications (internet) enabling society itself. But I think these are just the happy side-effects of the massive profits it generates for its major stockholders.

    2. Re:What are the arguments for company stability? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      I mean, you could argue that it provides taxes (minimised of course), jobs.

      But so do other companies---what are the arguments that specifically Microsoft should be stable? If Microsoft got disbanded today, several small $OS Support Contractor companies might form to make use of the available labor and knowledge. What's the benefit of Microsoft compared to the alternative?

      Also, taxes tend to be a net loss to society: the make the marginal price of the taxed thing be different from the marginal cost, which causes inefficient allocations as well as underproduction. Providing jobs isn't a benefit in and of itself: hiring people to dig ditches and fill them up again doesn't create value, it's just a transfer with a high labor cost. Just give them the money and skip the ditches, then the world has more free time in total.

      Don't forget that this particular company produces some of the basic software (Windows itself) which is the basis for much of our communications.

      We could move off of Windows and onto Linux, BSD, Haiku, OS X, [...]. We have to lose some coordination games on the way---who switches from MS Office to Libre Office first? And we might have to work on improving Wine in order to preserve the investment made in Windows API applications. But if we can solve this, we should be good to go, right? Oh, but good on you for finding an argument specific to the company in question.

      I might buy that it's a benefit to the Microsoft employees that they save the friction costs of finding a new job, and the users of Microsoft's products will save similar transaction costs in switching to new products. But that's a one-time gain (or loss avoidance), which shouldn't overrule a long-term increase in productivity. Then there's the general level of churn, of these "recurring one-time" costs, but Microsoft is just one player in a sea of churning companies.

      So I'm not really sure, still, what the social benefit is, except keeping the level of churn down. This doesn't seem to outweigh the problems of monopoly... err, bad stuff.

    3. Re:What are the arguments for company stability? by dakohli · · Score: 1
      Yep, I really don't know either.

      The company has inertia right now. There are no moves to break it up, so I suppose the folks making the extreme high salaries that are running the thing are the ones that really make out like bandits.

  71. yea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...because like a committee, once a company is created it almost never goes away. Especially when it's a corporation. The world changes all the time, and like it or not, businesses that are needed today won't have a place in the future. Try to tell them that tho, it's like talking to your cat. I'm sure people who ran wagon building companies thought the same way. MS, stole and slightly changed an innovative OS way, way back in the day and has since then innovated less and less each year until they can release an OS (windows 7) that is only a slight change from their previous OS (vista) and think "we are the best company in the world". Windows 7 is no where near to being the best OS no matter what measuring stick you use.

    Now we have MS trying to be the best browser (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) and them trying to be the best search engine (bing?!?!?! I coulda told you that was gonna suck just from the name) and we even have MSNBC now. In the end, you have a fly-by-night back-alley company that stole it's original software and just happened to be in the right place at the right time just to balloon to a company that is a jack of all trades but a master of none. The faster people leave MS the better it is for the rest of the world.

  72. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... you have a "Manger" who is a "manger of mangers" eh ?

    Is this ultimate "manger" the one that the baby Jebus used ?

    Or if it's a typo it will still make a great WWF name !

  73. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As /if/ you were a manager when you can't even spell it. Back under your bridge, troll :P

  74. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by jomama717 · · Score: 1

    I think you mean "intnerns"

    --
    while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
  75. They're not leaving; they're infiltrating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They aren't leaving Microsoft, they are invading enemy territory to kick out the FOSS and bring back Microsoft products to regain lost ground.

    Just you watch. The Munich migration from Linux to Windows 7 will be the next high visibility project!

  76. Mobile and Cloud paradigm shift by jkeelsnc · · Score: 1

    None of this is surprising. Windows 7 is pretty good and so is office. But these are not the paradigms of the future. Mobile and cloud computing together are the future. I think that the Meteoric rise of Android proves it. As well as the continued popularity of the Iphone and other mobile devices. I think the Ipad's success proves it as well. M$ has barely shown up lately for the mobile space. WP7 is decent but it doesn't have all the details and functions of the Iphone and Android. It amazes me how Android has barely existed for a little over a year (at least in the minds of consumers) and it is already a platform that is sophisticated, (relatively) easy to use, and has a large market full of usefull apps. Only the Iphone rivals it. And vice versa. Blackberry also has stagnated lately. The deal in the mobile space is Apple Ipad, Iphone, Android phones, and with honeycomb you can include Android tablets. Google is not going away in this space and certainly not Apple. Both have been visionary and innovative while M$ continued to rely on their desktop and corporate server Hegemony to live in lala land and hope for continued automatic replacement and upgrade sales for Windows and Office. They can no longer guarantee this market anymore. It is changing fast and M$ is asleep at the wheel. Interestingly enough, Linux has actually pushed forward into the consumer space in some forrm (finally) I mean this in the form of android. Now I wonder what is going to happen with intel? I mean they are not going away right away. But really they need to come up with something better than ATOM in the mobile space if they want to survive. I don't understand why they sold off their ARM division and products anyway. Especially now that ARM is growing in the mobile space and even the slumbering giant in Redmond has realized that the next version of windows will need to run on the ARM architecture.

  77. The China of software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft is the China of software. It copies software inventions, produces them for Windows and markets them aggressively. Spreadsheets, wordprocessors, operating systems, and even 'PowerPoint' (think Harvard Graphics). And then there is the Internet.

    So losing creative leaders is nonsense. How creative is it to copy. Common the place runs on marketing and hype and a semi monopoly.

  78. Getting tired ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... of a flat stock price. It's making all of those compensation plans based on stock options look worthless.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  79. The difference between IBM and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well written summary. But the difference between IBM and Control Data, is quite small: they suffered similar occurrences about the same time, and radically different fates as a result. If we narrow our focus, a similar case might be made between SGI and Sun.

    I just want to point out that there are companies who have a moment in history where things go pear-shaped.

    Not that many people successfully predict this outcome, InfoWorld least of all.

  80. Kinect is PrimeSense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS didn't create Kinect, they licensed it from PrimeSense.

  81. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what is a "manger"? are you from texas or something?

  82. Re:Why is this news? He's not super-duper-senior by Foredecker · · Score: 1

    Dang! I wrote this during a meeting in a bit of a hurry. This will teach me to not screw up cut-n-paste. I sure brought the spelling police out in force. Here is a correctly spelled and edited version.

    I have no idea why this made the news. The article says he is "a" principle development manager, not "the" principle development manager. he most certainly is not an executive. There are many “Principle Development managers” at Microsoft. How this departure became news is a mystery. Microsoft is a big company – people come and go all the time.

    "Principle" is a job title. The individual contributor levels go like this for software devleopers:

    • Intern (not really a rank but part of the general idea)
    • Software Developer (lowest rank)
    • Software Developer -II
    • Senior Software Developer
    • Principle Software Developer
    • Partner Software Developer
    • Distinguished Engineer
    • Fellow

    Managers go like this

    • "Lead" - manager of individual contributors. Almost always senior or principle level.
    • "Manger" means manager manager of leads. Always principle or better.
    • "Director" manager of manager of managers. Always principle or better – usually partner.
    • Vice President (rougly equivlent to distinguished eigineer)
    • Senior Vice President (like Jon DeVaan)
    • President (like Stephen Sinofsky)
    • Ballmer (known to Slashdotters as Cheif Chair Thrower in Charge)

    For several years, I was "a" Principle Development Manager in Windows. I am now a principle lead because there was a specific team I wanted to be a part of. It certainly wouldnt be news worthy if I left Microsoft.

    -foredecker

    --
    Jibe!