Low Budget Air Space Photography

An anonymous reader writes "With a budget of just 350 pounds, two British PhDs in engineering sent a balloon with cameras attached to a height of over 30 km." The photos and video are pretty amazing. Especially the very hi-tech styrofoam box.

Comments

heavy!

[chihowa]

With a budget of just 350 pounds...

That's some heavy styrofoam!

Re:heavy!

[Ant P.]

It's 2011, and Slashdot apparently still doesn't support anything outside the EBCDIC character set.

£?

Re:heavy!

[gstrickler]

EBCDIC? Hello, no one supports EBCDIC. Maybe you mean ASCII.

Re:heavy!

[xaxa]

The £ symbol works for me when I type it on my UK keyboard.

Re:heavy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the weight is from the time machine.

Re:heavy!

[tsa]

What about the euro?
€

Re:heavy!

[sjames]

It works when I use the compose,l,- combination: £

Re:heavy!

[budgenator]

Does that mean I can safely throw out my drum cards for punch decks of Fortran, COBOL and RPG II programs?

Re:heavy!

[gstrickler]

Since you quoted Douglas Adams, you can throw out whatever you want.

It's NOT SPACE

[thomasdz]

30km up is NOT SPACE. 100km up is space. wake me up when someone gets a balloon up that far.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[thomasdz]

oh and by the way... Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? NOT REAL!

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Anonymous Coward]

They said "Air space" Photography. RTFS dude. No one said "Outer space".

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[hoferbr]

Actually, it's space. It's just not outer space. But the news never claimed that they reached outer space.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[sznupi]

Not only that - what is suddenly the point of having the same exact news (just with different people...) again and again, every month or two? Especially if it's something done for many years...

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Anonymous Coward]

Same purpose as posting about dupes on slashdot. again and again. For many years. :) Kettle, meet black.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[msauve]

It's not "space" by the common understanding of the term. If, by "space," you mean simply existing in space-time, so the atmosphere doesn't matter, then nothing can be sent into space, since it was always present in space.

OTOH, the OP was incorrect in implying an error. The article only claims "edge of space," which seems accurate enough to describe a height where the contrast between the earth's atmosphere and space can be clearly seen.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[sznupi]

What's with TFS image depicting planets, and linking to "space" filter?

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Rhaban]

Actually, it's space.
It's just not outer space. But the news never claimed that they reached outer space.

I just reached space bar six times.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[stewbacca]

Yeah, because the video in the story wasn't cool at all because it only went up 30km and not 100km. Riiiiiight.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not "space" ... then nothing can be sent into space, since it was always present in space.

That reminds me of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcU4t6zRAKg

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[iamhassi]

The best part about this story is it took two PhDs in engineering to do what high school kids have been doing for many years ;)

Next story: four PhDs in engineering build pinewood derby car, lose to boy scouts

Think they should mail their diplomas back to whatever website they ordered them from

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Anonymous Coward]

The atmospheric interface is 100km - is 30 km the edge of space? I can clearly see "space" at night from the ground. I don't think sending a balloon w/ 350 lb. payload to 30km is that big of a deal anymore. Maybe in the 60's, not today. The real question - is why so heavy?

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Stregano]

Actually, it is cub scouts that do pinewood derby. There is a difference between them, but not a big one (mainly age)

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[melikamp]

The point is to advertise YouTube, and therefore Adobe. HTML5 my ass. Wouldn't it be cool if someone actually started a torrent with a Theora or WebM space video with sub-half-inch pixels? I couldn't even finish watching this one, it's a mess. You would think that a university could afford 20 kbps uplink for a month, and PhDs in engineering could figure out how to seed a torrent, but no. It has to be the shittiest quality imaginable, piped through Flash.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Teancum]

What is sad is that a real story about a vehicle going to this altitude, but with technology that clearly can go much further, was simply ignored and forgotten. The difference? Pretty pictures.

Personally, I think the idea that a rocket that may go to the Moon eventually is something worth "news for nerds". Yet another "high altitude" balloon launch? Not really.

I thought the same thing.... More high altitude balloon pictures? I'll wait for the tourists who go up on the VSS Enterprise to bring back their snapshots on their cameras. Those will likely be higher quality even if it is a relatively cheap camera bought at Wal-Mart on the night before their launch, and from a little more than double the altitude.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Teancum]

It is mostly the dads of the Cub Scouts who make the pinewood derby cars, so I would argue that losing to a bunch of Boy Scouts is more likely something made by the actual kids.

Pinewood Derby competitions turn into flat out Pinewood Derby Engineering complete with wind tunnels to reduce drag from air turbulence, grinding axles with a lathe, and studies of various lubricants to beat out the competition. One interesting book I just read even went into the moment of inertia for the car to maximize the amount of energy obtained from the car dropping down the track (hint: put most of the weight of the car in the back to eek out a few extra joules of energy). Reducing the coefficient of friction on the wheels is the best way to win, however.

It is serious business, and real engineering does go into those cars.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[mcvos]

I just reached space bar six times.

I'll have a pan-galactic gargle blaster.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[rubycodez]

that's one vague boundary, could make arguments for something more than half that distance. anyway, the record for a balloon is 52km, by the Winzen Research Balloon.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Unkyjar]

350 lb. payload? *giggles* You realize they meant 350 English pounds, as in the cost of the project, not the weight of it?

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Stregano]

WOOSH! Over your head there guy:
Difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts
The people who actually do Pinewood Derby: Linky Link

While the Cub Scouts are part of the BSA, it is not the Boy Scouts that do Pinewood Derby races, it is the Cub Scouts. There is a pretty big difference between making it through Weblos and making it to Eagle (trust me, I have done both).

Please do not confuse the two.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Midnight Thunder]

oh and by the way... Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? NOT REAL!

If we are going to be scientific about it, then prove to me they don't exist ;)

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Patch86]

The title says "air space". A bit weird, but basically accurate.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Teancum]

I'm not as ignorant as you would think, nor am I confusing the two. If a Boy Scout is racing a Pinewood Derby car, it would be as a hobby and not as a "serious" competition.

Yes, there is a difference after a fashion between the two programs, especially as adults are much more involved in Cub Scouting... which is also why I was saying that it is more the dads that make the cars rather than the boys. Perhaps a Webelos (not Weblos, since you are being inane here) Scout might do quite a bit of it on their own, I am arguing that it would be a Boy Scout who would be most likely to make their own car. Supposedly it is a "joint" project between a father and his kid, but let's be serious here about who does most of the work. The Boy Scout in this case would be more than likely an older brother to a Cub or perhaps a Den Chief (an older scout assigned as a youth "helper" for youger scouts) joining in the race for fun. Sometimes there is a "family" competition for sisters and others in the family of the Cub to provide some extra excitement for those at a Pack Meeting.

While the original grandparent post may have sort of missed the mark, I sure didn't. My point was that by missing the mark and comparing the PhD students to Boy Scouts, that it was making the comparison to more proper amateurs rather than the more "professional" cars that sometimes show up as having been made by a Cub Scout.

While not encouraged by the BSA, such a race typically does become a chest thumping of adults more than casual play between kids.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[michelcolman]

Actually, a proof against Santa Claus does exist. Just Google for "proof Santa Claus does not exist". Something to do with the required speed to visit all the houses in one night, and air friction at that speed vaporizing the entire reindeer team. All calculated with exquisite precision, obviously.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[Midnight Thunder]

Actually, a proof against Santa Claus does exist. Just Google for "proof Santa Claus does not exist". Something to do with the required speed to visit all the houses in one night, and air friction at that speed vaporizing the entire reindeer team. All calculated with exquisite precision, obviously.

This is of course is assuming he doesn't use black hole powered reindeer. I like to use a magic eight ball for my precise calculations - it seems to work for weather forecasting just fine.

Re:It's NOT SPACE

[sznupi]

I came across them few times already... on one hand - commendable effort (even if some early plans raised an eyebrow, like appearing to dismiss gravity turn / dynamics of stability). But on the other - they seem to be aiming for a mostly solved problem.

Yes, small (no way around it, not with practical balloons) indigenous launcher could be nice... they might even manage to end up with something pretty inexpensive. Probably still not far from few available inexpensive launchers.
And with an awfully low mass budget to LEO, especially as far as requirements for trans lunar injection and landing there are concerned. And... apparently not working on the lander.

Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

Neat video. Of course, amateur groups have been doing this for decades, so it's not really news:

http://www.eoss.org/

Re:Not bad, but not new

[hcs_$reboot]

This one is pretty amazing: 37 km altitude, fun to watch and nice music :-)

Re:Not bad, but not new

[phantomfive]

And Slashdot has posted a lot of them. Used to be the easiest way to get a mention on Slashdot was design an interesting case mod. Now it seems to be balloon space photography.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

Neat video. Of course, amateur groups have been doing this for decades, so it's not really news:

http://www.eoss.org/

But did you see the self applying duct tape? Where do I get that?

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

And Slashdot has posted a lot of them. Used to be the easiest way to get a mention on Slashdot was design an interesting case mod. Now it seems to be balloon space photography.

Pretty sure balloon space photography takes a little more doing than a case mod.

Now a balloon space photography case mod... that would be news!

Re:Not bad, but not new

[phantomfive]

Pretty sure balloon space photography takes a little more doing than a case mod.

Probably not. At least, not a good one. I feel fairly confident in my ability to send up a balloon with a camera in it. But I would have trouble making even a simple looking case like this, this, or this.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

The next big thing will be ballon space photography with an interesting case mod.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

The REAL news is that they managed to send the balloon into the future and then retrieve footage from December 2011!!

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously - send a fucking model rocket attached to a balloon lift platform and start taking pot-shots at the moon. Even if you don't make it its cooler than this camera on a balloon trick. Well, on second thought the camera might still be needed, but 3-4 balloons with a rudimentary stabilization system could provide a launch platform for a multi-stage model rocket at the edge of space, and could feasibly hit the moon with about 8 decent size stages.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[mikael]

Maybe an Imax 360 HD 3D camera will Dolby surround sound and music specially composed by the Philharmonic orchestra will be the next big thing...

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still pretty damn cool, though.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Teancum]

I predict that it will be home-brew nuclear reactors that will be the next big thing that will follow after these balloon stories stop getting submitted or posted. At least one guy that I know is building a homebrew Polywell reactor, and if others start to follow his lead, it could get interesting.

High school science fair projects have been building Farnsworth-Hirsch fusors for many years now, including this guy who is attempting a Polywell reactor. He already got a fusor going but building a Polywell reactor does seem at least a new step in the right direction.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[xMrFishx]

Yeah, regardless of whether it's new[s] or not, it's still interesting and the video is neat. I felt some element of awe looking at the high altitude images shown and how fantastic they are. Kudos.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Z00L00K]

And I was involved into a similar project last summer: Video on YouTube

A few of the pics in the video are mine, other pics by other people or the onboard camera.

Re:Not bad, but not new

[Ugmo]

350 pounds? With a weight budget like that, they could have sent me to the edge of space. That would have been an amateur record.;)

Re:Not bad, but not new

[dogsbreath]

er... Nice to watch and good on 'em fer doing it but hardly amazing. Certainly nothing new here. The balloon tech has been publicly available for over 50 years. Upper air observations using more or less the same balloon tech have been in effect for at least 50 years as well. Co-ordinated international launches occur at 0000Z and 1200Z from over 800 locations in the world. All of the data is shared.

Lots of references available... Wikipedia has some nice stuff on it as does the NOAA.

A nice side-effect of all this government diddling around in the upper-atmosphere (and NO ONE calls it "edge of space") is the ready availability of the balloons at a cheap price. Free if you know some one in the government weather services. They never miss one or two "damaged" balloons. Hence the ability for amateurs to launch stuff.

30,000 metres is not unusual. Actually, 25 to 35 is very typical. Flights go up to 40k on a regular basis. Just depends on balloon resilience, hydrogen fill, temp at altitude, etc. Not kicking the balloon is a good thing too.

Now, if someone filled a condom with hydrogen, attached an instrument package and had it reach 30,000 before bursting: THAT would be news. Probably would make a great Trojan commercial as well. The mind she boggles.

I do wish that some of these amateurs would do something truly original. I mean its nice that people are going out and having fun, getting fresh air, building stuff etc and I in no way want to belittle their efforts, but this is /. and it would be nice to see some scientific/tech advancement from the balloon crowd. So, where's the beef?

Re:Not bad, but not new

[treeves]

Music *composed* by an orchestra would indeed be an innovation. Heretofore, almost all music is composed by individuals or small groups (e.g. two or three people working together, usually one on the tune one on lyrics). Getting 80 to 100 people to work together to create a significant piece of music would be very interesting IMHO. It'd be tough though, since the violins would never stop playing, the brass and woodwinds would all try to give themselves some good solos, most would try to keep the percussion from being too noisy, etc.

Sounds like ...

[kmf]

the http://www.astdroid.com/ project :D

Air clearance?

[theshowmecanuck]

Are people supposed to get air clearance before launching a balloon that passes through altitudes used by commercial aircraft. Just curious.

Re:Air clearance?

[sznupi]

Yes, you're supposed to coordinate the launch with local airspace authority (at least that's the way at my place...). Also, the payload should conform to certain requirements... (if it gets hit despite all the precautions, apparently)

But generally, a very straightforward formality / folks dealing with it tended to be nice.

Re:Air clearance?

[Migraineman]

In the US, the FAA has rules for untethered balloons. If you're below certain size and material restrictions, you're good to go. Issuing a NOTAM (Notice To Airmen) is highly recommended, even if you're not required to file one. Demonstrates that you're being professional about your activities.

Re:Air clearance?

[cool_arrow]

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.15.4

Re:Air clearance?

[Anonymous Coward]

i frequently issue a NOTAM to my boss.

as in im NOT coming to work this AM.

offtopic, carry on..

Re:Air clearance?

[fatboy]

Our group has never submitted a NOTAM, because we are exempt. I have audio recorded of a "near miss" with one of our group's balloons. Never saw the jet, but it sure sounded close. I think we will be filing NOTAMs from now on, even though we are not required to.

Re:Air clearance?

[sirrunsalot]

Just shows how much lower 'education' has become - these are supposed to be PhD level students

Oh, now come on. You're just being negative. It specifically says they did it in their spare time. Most PhD students probably stare at the wall and cry quietly in their spare time. At least they did something, even if it's not novel. Don't confuse this, however, with me thinking it should be on slashdot. I kinda like the recent father-son team, but there's nothing new here. Just a fun low-key, low-budget project for a couple students who may or may not be doing perfectly valid work on University time.

Re:Air clearance?

[phantomcircuit]

Looks like someone found your jet!

Re:Air clearance?

[Anonymous Coward]

You should be able to estimate a range based on doppler effect in the audio, assuming some reasonable velocity for the jet. Wikipedia's got all the formulae.

Re:Pretty cool

[unity100]

because random 2 guys with 350 pound budget did it.

Simpsons did it.

[gblackwo]

Is there anything they've improved upon versus the other dozens that have been done? I'm too lazy to RTFA after the nth one of these stories.

Time travel

[Skuto]

If you watch the video carefully, you will see they invented time travel as well!

Re:Time travel

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed... They apparently filmed this 11 Months from now!

Re:Time travel

[coolmadsi]

If you watch the video carefully, you will see they invented time travel as well!

Why, can you see a blue police box somewhere? ;)

Re:Pretty cool

[Ksevio]

Because as you see from the start of the video - it's from December 2011!

Not only did they send this into space, but they sent it back in time!

December 2011?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its amazing that they were able to send it to December 2011 and back

Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

These balloon projects are old news.....I participated in the same thing back in 1998/1999 (and even then people had been doing it years earlier)...did it for 1/2 the amount of money too, no PhD on staff either. Our balloon had cameras, wireless communication repeater and GPS tracking for recovery....and it was live on the internet at the time.

has been done dozens of times now

[peter303]

And at least three Slashdot stories in the past couple years. Its a pretty common science fair project now.
The "swiss-army-knife" smart phone is the device that makes this possible. It does almost everything you need for a couple hundred bucks..

Re:has been done dozens of times now

[bigredradio]

I thought the same thing - "This AGAIN?", but at least this time the guys putting together the video made it entertaining.

Re:has been done dozens of times now

[sznupi]

At least three Slashdot stories in the past couple months... (easy and inexpensive enough (or less, regarding price...) without smartphone, too)

Re:has been done dozens of times now

[MetalliQaZ]

Indeed. I'm surprised this story keeps getting posted every time some group of geeks decides to do this. It isn't newsworthy anymore and the pictures, while great for amateurs, are not so worth my time compared to NASA or USAF photos.

-d

Re:has been done dozens of times now

[sznupi]

The guys putting together the video apparently couldn't be innovative even regarding the soundtrack; it's non-viewable in many places / some copyright hiccups, it seems.

Re:has been done dozens of times now

[louic]

It isn't newsworthy

This is about the 10th comment I read about the article not being original. Should be modded +1 funny for the irony of it. If you are criticising an article for not being original, what about the comments?

Re:Pretty cool

[nzap]

Wait a second... what year is it where you're from?

Re:Pretty cool

[sznupi]

Random two engineering PhDs?... A lot less qualified folks are launching such balloons for many years. Also, 350 pounds is strangely expensive.

Just call it what it is (constant reporting of it, not the fun activity itself!) - some temporary media fad / phenomena.

Video from UMG?

[kwwii]

Can't view the video in Germany, it says "This video contains content from UMG. It is not available in your country."

Re:Video from UMG?

[k6mfw]

try inserting URL from hidemyass.com but from what the comments say, you are not missing much.

Server?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone should host a server on one of these, and try to keep it in the air as long as possible

Re:Server?

[Stenchwarrior]

They could run it off a MacBook Air...

Re:Server?

[sirrunsalot]

Are you making an uptime joke?

Low calibre PhD students!

[Anonymous Coward]

...should be pushing the frontiers of science and original thinking. Not reinventing the wheel. Shame on you. I recommend not completing your PhD theses and get a job at Tesco.

This has been done too many times already. Shame!

Re:Pretty cool

[unity100]

then they are of the first ones that were able to make into mainstream media. then THAT is the news.

Nothing to see here, float along...

[the_other_chewey]

"This video contains content from UMG. It is not available in your country."

Just imagine...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Just imagine yourself on-board on one of those things. But much bigger. *POP!* OMG! WTF! I'm falling! AAGGHHH!

Re:Pretty cool

[Quiet_Desperation]

Not to mention this has been done, like, 93 times in just the past couple years. It's like a new hobby sweeping the land.

No money for licenses though

[clickety6]

This video contains content from UMG. It is not available in your country.

Cool, but...

[Stenchwarrior]

It could have been way cooler if they used multiple cameras, or at least one more pointing down toward Earth. And how feasible would it have been to add some sort of shared storage device so they wouldn't run out of space and could record the entire flight?

Re:Cool, but...

[hubie]

If these were Ph.D. graduate students, they don't have a whole lot of disposable cash in their pockets. Feasibility comes down to how much do they want to spend of their own money on something that might be destroyed or lost, or how much feature creep do they want when they just want to launch it. If their motivation was to move the bar on amateur balloon launch innovation, then perhaps they could/should/etc. have done what you suggested or much more. However, if it was something more like the desire to do something they find interesting for its own sake, then kudos to them.

I think the complaints about how many of these stories make it to the Slashdot front page are valid. However, if these guys aren't making any particular uniqueness claims, then I think the people grousing here about how so-and-so did it first, or did it for less money, or whatever, should shut up and get their own hobby.

Re:Cool, but...

[mikael]

A fisheye lens would do - couple of those and you only need two cameras - use video processing to stitch the two movies together and you have a full 360x180 view. Or get one of those "Gorgon Stare" military surveillance camera systems.

Re:Cool, but...

[Cederic]

I think they're a bunch of lying pretentious twats too. They were using an iPhone as their ground based tracking device. That's their £350 budget blown immediately and they should've gone android.

Not to mention launching from Derbyshire. I hate Derby supporters. They're all twats :(

Re:Cool, but...

[kimvette]

When I watched this earlier I had the following thoughts:

  * How neat would it be if there were four cameras, one looking out each side?
  * How about a down-facing cam with a 360 view (as opposed to a fish-eye lens)
  * How about a night flight?
  * How about a flight which directs the camera UPWARD with exposure set to capture the stars?
  * How about a flight with a high end DSLR with a 10mm or 12mm lens?

The problem is, there are so many people doing this now with cheap webcam-quality cameras that it has become almost boring, because the videos are all the same; the camera is bouncing around giving a view from a really lousy angle, so the ground is not captured well, and when the dark sky is visible you can't see anything because exposure is set for the ground. I'd love to see someone do something genuinely different; even just higher quality video or maybe some sort of stabilization would make a big difference.

Re:Pretty cool

[alta]

2011 here, but it sure as hell isn't December yet.

Future is here!

[sergiy.gagarin]

Or is it that my computer's clock is really off? Because it was done in December of 2011 according to the video in the article. Anyway this hardly is something new since there was this £500 launch this summer in fancy orange styrofoam http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1288688/The-incredible-pictures-edge-space--taken-30-digital-camera-attached-balloon.html and even this 150$ launch from September 2009 and subsequent Project Icarus http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-150-space-camera-mit-students-beat-nasa-on-beer-money-budget/

Egg drop

[gaderson]

Wow, finally I can put all that 'egg drop' expertise from childhood to good use.

swinging and spinning

[pz]

I expected there to be less swinging and swaying well above the clouds. Commercial jets, at a mere 10 km high (very roughly) are able to often find very still air. Three times higher isn't very very very still? Do we have any experts here?
 

Re:swinging and spinning

[sznupi]

Their balloon had no provisions to efficiently damp acquired oscillations.

Re:swinging and spinning

[blair1q]

Simple answer: Stillness isn't a monotonic function of altitude.

Simplified more complicated answer: Air comes in layers, many layers, depending on the local weather, but there are generally several major layers covering the whole earth (stratosphere, troposphere, etc.). Each layer has its own characteristics of temperature gradient and general wind pattern. Between the layers is where the most turbulence is, because air really doesn't like shearing. And in one of the upper layers winds of hundreds of kph are typical, and turbulence is as well.

Re:swinging and spinning

[maxwells_deamon]

I also suspect the swinging parts of the video were more interesting. The camera would not show as much when it was not moving around.

Re:swinging and spinning

[hubie]

Plus, once you start swinging there isn't a whole lot that will dampen your oscillations.

Re:swinging and spinning

[qmaqdk]

At high altitudes there's much less friction from air to dampen oscillations.

Re:swinging and spinning

[pz]

I also suspect the swinging parts of the video were more interesting. The camera would not show as much when it was not moving around.

I thought about that ... seems a shortcoming of the imaging mechanism they chose. More than one camera might have been useful.

Re:swinging and spinning

[pz]

Their balloon had no provisions to efficiently damp acquired oscillations.

I know nothing about balloon design. How do you dampen perturbations?

Re:swinging and spinning

[the_other_chewey]

I know nothing about balloon design. How do you dampen perturbations?

With water.

Re:swinging and spinning

[sznupi]

Using long tether helps a bit... or an aerodynamic 'brake'/ribbon while going up. But generally: good question, for something so dainty, and with such weight constraints.

In my occasional toying in this area I might even one day try a variant of Picavet suspension, or segmented tether made from partly-rigid segments of unequal length (to get in the way of clean or even self-exciting oscillations), just to mention two (quite possibly ineffective) ideas (plus especially the second might have problems with regulations at my place, the tether can't be too strong; and both possibly getting in the way of required recovery mechanism)

Or one day I'll just have enough cash for disposable fish-eye lenses...

Re:swinging and spinning

[mspohr]

The GoPro cameras (www.gopro.com) have up to 170 degree field of view and are affordable. Would be good for this kind of project.

Re:swinging and spinning

[sznupi]

Hm, still quite expensive, when compared with new Canon digicams (A1200 and A2200 just around the corner...), and almost certainly not so nice video capabilities - heck, none of the other big digital camera makers comes close to Canon now in video (and I'm thinking about really ridiculously wide FOV / total fish-eye, to have a shot at stabilization in post-production ;>> / video per se isn't even required, just time-lapse of most-of-surface-capturing photos)

Re:swinging and spinning

[mspohr]

Canon makes nice cameras but the OP was looking for an inexpensive fish-eye lens and these Canons are merely wide angle (28mm) ... no where near fish-eye (10mm). (It also apparently lacks image stabilization.) The GoPro has a 170 degree field of view.

Also, the price for the A1200 is $229 which is not much less than the GoPro at $259.

Re:swinging and spinning

[michaelwv]

The payload is suspended from the balloon and is essentially a pendulum. Any buffeting or motion takes a while to damp down. Just the simple motion of the balloon itself might be enough (I don't know the damping function well enough to figure out what frequencies and amplitudes of forcing functions are relevant).

Re:swinging and spinning

[sznupi]

The OP is me ;p

Where were you able to find such rip-off for A1200? (while still barely available, it's already at a bit over $100 / should be sub-100 relatively soon; oh, and in practice the differences are much larger for me - the less prosperous the place, the bigger the premium on top of US prices, doubly (or triply, or...) so for niche products - OTOH not so bad for mass consumer ones)

Generally, that 170 degrees seems horizontal / full-frame. What I had in mind would greatly benefit from hemispherical (hey, people are doing lots of weird shit with optical paths of cameras not meant for replaceable lenses / knowing optometrist/optitian might help / I sure as hell wouldn't put my DSLR on-board ;p ... though some future (once the novelty factor wears off) compact mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras might be another option)

Re:swinging and spinning

[mspohr]

Sears was the only place that actually said it was in stock (at $229).

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_66610683000P

If you're looking for cheap... try this:

http://www.usbfever.com/index_eproduct_view.php?products_id=867

Re:swinging and spinning

[sznupi]

Curious reversal (momentary, I'm sure) - it's already available at my usually-price-disadvantaged place for $140, so not too bad (unfortunately it will probably remain near that level for some time)

And too bad also full-frame / maybe I'll yet cook something up with acquainted optician...

Re:swinging and spinning

[pz]

I know nothing about balloon design. How do you dampen perturbations?

With water.

Seriously? As in, you put a small amount of water in the balloon along with the helium?

Would not be legal in the USA

[Andy Dodd]

TFA implies that their comm/tracking system used a cell phone. In the USA, FCC regulations prohibit use of cell phones while airborne in general. (There are exceptions for situations where measures have been taken to eliminate interference with terrestrial networks, such as a microcell within an aircraft cabin that causes the handsets to drop their transmitter power). However, it has never been legal in the USA for an airborne cell phone to communicate with the terrestrial cell network.

This hasn't stopped numerous USA-based HAB projects from looking at the FAA regs on balloons, saying "we're legal!", then using a cell phone for their comm system without bothering to check the FCC rules and licensing for cell phones. I think one of the few HAB projects I know of that did things legitimately was Project Blue Horizon - All of their comms are in the amateur (ham) bands and every year the project has at least 2-3 licensed hams.

Re:Would not be legal in the USA

[Archon-X]

Hey!
You're that guy I'm always 'lucky' enough to bump into at parties.
I remember you saying you were part of some club, was it the TIA (Totally Irrelevant Anecdotes) or CBHFO (Can't be happy for others) ?

Please don't let me know, thanks.

Re:Would not be legal in the USA

[cvtan]

So the music is illegal, the cell phone is illegal, the lack of flight plan is illegal. Good thing this was done somewhere outside the good ole USA. I feel safer knowing this thing couldn't land on my grandchildren (not really).

Re:Would not be legal in the USA

[Teancum]

Considering how often my cell phone has been "accidentally" left on in my baggage while I've taken a trip on an airplane, I hardly think that it really causes too many problems. I really don't think my experience is that unusual as I've read the same thing from other people, and it was cell phones on Flight 93 that alerted some of the passengers on that flight that there might have been a bit of a problem with terrorists on 9/11.

Yes, I can understand why the FCC wants to discourage the practice, but I'm sure it happens far more often than most would admit.

Re:Would not be legal in the USA

[Andy Dodd]

An idle cell phone causes far less interference to the towers than one in the middle of a call.

Also the baggage section of an aircraft is significantly better shielded (no windows for signals to leak out of) than the passenger section. Your phone probably just went into "no signal" and ate your battery.

The problem is that the capacity of the terrestrial cellular network is dependent on the ability to divide the network into small range-based cells - the assumption is that a handset talking to one cell will be far enough away from the next closest cell that uses the same frequencies/channels.

An airborne handset nullifies this basic assumption, it is seen by a large number of cells on the same frequency. There was supposedly a point where it would actually communicate with all the cells and if you made a call you'd be billed for the call once for every tower in range (If this were actually the case, I wish they hadn't fixed it, it would be a good deterrent from using cell phones while airborne except in the most dire of emergencies), now you communicate with one and interfere with many others, degrading their performance. Again - probably something OK in the most dire of emergencies, but most of the time, if you use a cell phone while airborne (exception: aircraft with microcells that cause phones to drop their transmit power) you're just being a douchebag and interfering with numerous cell sites on the ground.

Re:Pretty cool

[sznupi]

Not even that, I'm pretty sure there were some media reports at least over half a decade ago. They're just ... two engineering PhDs who jumped on recent media bandwagon about one type of small fun projects done by middle-schoolers (for many years)

Is it ok to just say 'That was cool'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or do we have to piss all over it with our need to be tech dicks?

It was nice to watch. I'm glad they did it.

Re:Pretty cool

[unity100]

well, i didnt see any media reports at least half a decade ago, or longer. for me, its news. simply, probably for a lot of other people, its same too. so, it IS news.

Good example

[cvtan]

Good example of "duct tape engineering". After all, it is not recommended to use duct tape on ducts.

Re:Good example

[ThatMegathronDude]

Its called "duck tape". The plastic backing causes water to bead off rather than soak through, just like a duck's feathers. "Duct tape" has a foil backing that is airtight but not very flexible.

Re:Good example

[cvtan]

Sorry, but Duck tape is a brand name for a type of duct tape.

Re:Good example

[smellsofbikes]

I've found that it's a much better idea to use duct tape on ducts, than to use gaffer tape on gaffers.

Re:Good example

[budgenator]

The original common name was 90 mile per hour tape, most peoples first contact was in Viet Nam where the canvas roofs on military trucks often had small rips and holes patched by the tape. The foil backed tape, we called missile tape, we used it to protect the leading edges of the elevons on our missile, but I don't think this usage was widespread.

When will you be able to buy kits on Think Geek

[maxwells_deamon]

Probably will not happen for liability/littering reasons

Re:When will you be able to buy kits on Think Geek

[Rorschach1]

I can't speak for Think Geek, but I'm quietly selling balloon payload computers now. The current board rev was intended for internal testing only, but there was enough demand that we built some extras and sold them. The next version will be more flexible and will let the user run their own code on an Arduino and maintain separation from the critical tracking tasks. For now, it's really almost too simple for educational uses. With the callsign pre-set, you only have to pop in a couple of lithium batteries, plug in the antenna, and switch it on. You get position, velocity, altitude, temperature, battery voltage, and barometric pressure, and a radio range of maybe 100 miles at altitude. It's about the size and weight of a deck of cards.

You'll still need a ham radio license, though. And you'll need to scrounge up a balloon and helium. I'd like to be able to put together a kit that would use disposable helium tanks from Wal-Mart, but even with two tanks you could only lift a very light payload.

I've got another prototype on my bench that has slow-scan TV capability to send back pictures over the air (in old-school analog modes) but I haven't had time to set up a proper ground station to test it.

dante

[Anonymous Coward]

http://moekino.3dn.ru/

Re:Pretty cool

[sznupi]

Even about balloon-lifted stratospheric UAV... (after most straightforward attempt at news search; I think I've seen more than one "just a balloon" in UK mainstream media few years ago)

Which in itself wasn't unheard of since a few years even in 2005... (BTW, except for "just a balloon" media fad resurfacing in a few years and people forgetting this round, I fully except "OMG it's a spaceplane!" fad relatively soon)

Bah, humbug

[SpinyNorman]

It was news the first time someone did it, but not the 100th or whatever we're up to now. I've lost count of how many times slashdot has run "balloon takes camera to edge of space for $x" stories.

Re:Pretty cool

[unity100]

I think I've seen more than one "just a balloon" in UK mainstream media few years ago)

realize that 'uk' is not 'world.

most of us havent seen it. it didnt exist for us.

Near space

[WasteOfAmmo]

Many have pointed out that the idea is not new and they are right. Although, IMHO, it is still cool to see stories about near space activities by amateurs.

Here are some resources to explore:
  * Nuts and Volts magazine has run an excellent series of articles on constructing all sort of instruments and flight gear for near space projects. Including the basics of regulations, etc. (US centric). They still run the odd piece now and then on updated and additional tech solutions from readers.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/20356815/NearSpace-Balloon-Launch is a good read on the hobby.
http://www.hobbyspace.com/NearSpace/index.html has a one page summary of the hobby.

From there Google is your friend. There are plenty of school and private groups/clubs that work on near space projects and launches. I've seen a few science fair projects on the subject also.

It's Happened Before

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Wake me when a group of amateurs puts a rocket into orbit, or, better yet, when a group of amateurs demonstrates some kind of new technology on a piggyback payload in space. I like the DIY scene. I like the Space industry. Hell, I'm a member of both. But until the DIYer's start putting hardware on orbit, then the only thing they will be contributing towards the actual space industry is weather balloon data for a particular date (a compendium of which, for numerous dates, is actually useful in the launch industry).

In other words, I love the zeal folks are starting to develop for cheapening access to space, but there is still a huge gap between the duct tape engineers and the engineering companies that pay good salaries for professional level work. It will be news when that gap decreases down to a blurry line.

Re:It's Happened Before

[tiptone]

Support the Copenhagen Suborbitals. I'm sure there are other groups somewhere trying the same type of thing, but they're the only ones about which I know.

Re:It's Happened Before

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Thanks for the tip.

Re:It's Happened Before

[budgenator]

While NASA's Getaway Special program was canceled following the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster on February 1, 2003; a few were very DIYish such as Project POSTAR that orbited an experiment designed by the Boy Scouts.

Re:Pretty cool

[sznupi]

So you didn't even bother to check the link, got it... (hint: US newspapers) UK urls was just where I have seen similar news (funnily enough, regarding TFA url...)

And considering relative audiences - yeah, UK mass media is pretty much the world when compared to US ones / you're doing it wrong (it's usually the other way around)

Re:Pretty cool

[unity100]

let me expand your horizon : us-uk is not the 'world'.

any clearer ?

Re:Pretty cool

[sznupi]

Ah, so you've never heard the Commonwealth... (and how popular in any random place at least BBC generally tends to be)

I know this makes me a sissy,

[martas]

but that video almost made me cry. It's just... Ah, forget it.

Re:I know this makes me a sissy,

[caius112]

I'm absolutely sure that during my first space flight (as if, ha-ha), I'm going to cry like a little bitch the whole time.

GPS fail?

[catmistake]

Why didn't the GPS work until it landed? Also, when I enter precise coordinates into Google Maps it gives precise location, not just the nearest road. What happened there?

Re:GPS fail?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would imagine the GPS uses a cellular tower to transmit its coordinates, once you're out of range of the cell towers, the GPS did not have any way to communicate.

Re:GPS fail?

[catmistake]

ah, of course... gps kept working, just couldn't transmit. Thx.

Why these stories make the news (and slashdot)

[braindrainbahrain]

Jeff Foust, in an editorial on The Space Review makes the observation that these stories catch our attention because the flights and resulting photos tease our desire for spaceflight.

FTA:

"If properly described, these images are not low-cost competitors to NASA spacecraft (as some media reports try to claim) but instead appetizers for the “real thing”: actual flights into space, suborbitally or orbitally"

Thesis Title:

[Anonymous Coward]

An investigation of the use of lighter than air objects in disrupting or (better) takedown of large winged aircraft, with possible application in military armed conflicts.

I think these two blokes just snagged jobs in the RAF.

Re:Thesis Title:

[budgenator]

Those are called Barrage Balloons, pre WWII technology.

Dec 2011?

[Thing I am]

I guess they solved the time travel problem.

Re:Dec 2011?

[JBBW]

I saw that too. With the effort they put into the video they should have caught that error.

Very Cool!

[otaku244]

Love the music as well!

Good soundtrack

[arshadk]

I think the real story is the music:
Hot Butter - Popcorn
Ludovico Einaudi - Divenire
Bedouin Soundclash - When the Night Feels My Song

Re:Good soundtrack

[zobjet]

agreed. i submitted the story because of the music.

the opening says dec 2011 timewarp?

[Anonymous Coward]

but they were too dopey to have the correct year in the opening titles...

Styrofoam?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being British they would have used polystyrene.

School kids did this for like $180 USD last year

[Wild_dog!]

Last year a bunch of school kids did this same thing I think. I told my nephew about it so his class could try the same thing. I have read multiple stories about this process so it isn't really new. Have your kids school organize a bake sale or something to raise money. Purchase the stuff. DIY

Next step

[mojjy]

I think the next step would be to separate the balloon part from the camera part a bit better, and cushion some of that bouncing/rotating. The videos are still awesome, but it'd be even better if they were a bit smoother (IMHO).