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Nokia Has a Billion Reasons To Love WP7
theodp writes "A report from Bloomberg notes it ain't easy, or cheap, to outbid Google. Microsoft has reportedly agreed to pay Nokia more than $1 billion to 'promote and develop' Windows Phone devices under the agreement between the companies. Bloomberg says the agreement for the payment was 'part of a campaign by Microsoft to keep Nokia from choosing Google's Android operating system.'"
Thanks for a good laugh this morning.
Hi, Microsoft marketing department, we almost missed you guys here.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
We'll have to wait for the NEXT version of Windows for Handhelds (whatever it will look like and be called by then) to know how big a mistake this was for Nokia.
If it's going to run on ARM anyway they can always just defect back to Android if they ever come to their senses.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This was known on day two by anyone paying attention.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Right you are good sir. Having used Maemo for the last year I only recently took a look at Android - naturally my opinion is subjective, but it struck me as being a much more tedious experience, inferior in many ways. This is not to say it's bad, maemo just felt more intuitive and easier to use.
I haven't seen WP7 though I gather from the responses to the parent that it's not so great.
If its so great, how come they sold sweet f*** all of the things?
sure, the adverts were pitiful, but the reviews were generally positive. As such, I'd expect a lot more to be sold than the reported 2 million over 3 months. (eg Apple sells 40 million in the same time, Android sells 30+ million).
So, the only answer I can think of is either they'er not as good as some people make out, or people really don't want Microsoft products (ie they only buy Windows and Office because they have to).
Combine that with the great devices Nokia makes and you have ... a Windows 7 phone that still no-one wants. Nobody bough Nokias because of the hardware, it was a combination of HW and SW that did what people wanted. Sure, they fell way back int he smartphone stakes, but the old voice+sms phones were very popular and the software was comparitively very good for the time.
I think that people bought a Nokia because their previous phone was a Nokia and it ran almost the same SW, and all the menus and options were the same. Now, they have to really make a choice, and as a result, they have no loyalty - and that means more sales for Google and Apple.
There's one more nail in the coffin - if someone is going to buy a Windows 7 phone (to be different from their peers perhaps :) ), then why would they buy a Nokia one when there are phones from LG and HTC that are just as good.
No shit, 1 minute after the story is posted no less. Saw something similar happen around the end of last year too, but it probably happens more often than that and I just have missed it.
If it wasn't for the "best possible tools" crack then it wouldn't have been quite so obvious, but the rest of it is just another "part of a campaign by Microsoft to keep Nokia from choosing Google's Android operating system" as the summary says. Interesting that they'd rather see people buy iPhones than Android. And that they think that they can change our opinions just from some noob saying how great MS is. Slashdot does have a lot of groupthink, but it doesn't quite work like that.
which is totally what she said
Yeah... he really gave it away by jamming "best possible tools" and "Silverlight" into the same sentence, didn't he?
While, I know it popular to Flame MS. If Nokia isn't just taking MS's money, and is planning really throw everything they have into it. This "may" just save MS(mobile) and Nokia. Nokia has a history finding and growing niches and finding what customers want. As long as they don't just play follow the leader to what Android and Iphone do, AND (this is a big if) MS listens to them when the need want changes to WP7. I think may at least be able to compete. I don't see them taking over but they may put up a decent showing.
Ha! Anyone who has anything positive to say about MS is a shill! Everything is black and white! Ha!
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
When I saw the headline, I thought: "Nokia is rolling out WordPerfect v7???"
Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
Personally I'm waiting to see what Nokia gets out. While the older Windows Mobile's haven't really been up to current generation, Windows Phone 7 is completely different thing. It's actually a great platform, and developers have the best possible tools available for making apps and games (Visual Studio, C/C++, C#, Silverlight..). It's also fast, sleek looking and up to current standards.
Now combine that with the great devices that Nokia makes and it could be a true hit. Actually, it's the only way how Nokia and Microsoft both can fight against iPhone and Android. Nokia has always had amazing hardware, but their software side has been lacking, especially in recent years.
My next phone will be either Nokia with Windows Phone 7 or iPhone. I have great hopes for Nokia.
LOL. I guess so::
1. tool
One who lacks the mental capacity to know he is being used. A fool. A cretin. Characterized by low intelligence and/or self-steem.
2. Tool
A person, typically male, who says or does things that cause you to give them a 'what-are-you-even-doing-here' look. The 'what-are-you-even-doing-here' look is classified by a glare in the tool's direction and is usually accompanied by muttering of how big of a tool they are. The tool is usually someone who is unwelcome but no one has the balls to tell them to get lost. The tool is alwasys making comments that are out-of-place, out-of-line or just plain stupid. The tool is always trying too hard to fit in, and because of this, never will. However, the tool is useful because you can use them for things; money, rides, ect. ...
Because you sure as shit can't be talking about Silverlight...
that it could be the single best operating system on the planet that is superior to every other system in every possible way, but...
It's still A Trap(tm).
Microsoft has a very long history of blatantly destructive behaviour. They have a lot to make up for before they should be considered trustworthy enough to rely on.
Anyone who willingly buys microsoft products should be pitied, because clearly they're trapped in an abusive relationship. "Oh! He's not like that anymore! He's changed! Oh no, I got that black eye from falling down the stairs!"
i'm completely colour blind and only see in super-high-contrast, you insensitive clod!
Nokia: We've had a good think about it and we're going to start developing for Android
Microsoft: What would it take for you to start using and developing for Windows Mobile?
Nokia: *Has a think* *Pinky moves towards mouth* ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
Microsoft reps: *look at each other, shrug shoulders* Yeah, OK, I can't see any reason why we can't do that..
Nokia: Err, OK, I guess we're using Windows Mobile then....
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
that's the spirit? we know you can feel it. it's getting late?
So serious sweetners are the only way to pull it off again.
Your numbers are totally off. Apple sold 40million last year. Windows Phone 7 came out mid october 2010!
did you forget to take your meds?
1 billion dollars US.
No difference, really.
It's still selling out. The scale is just different.
--
BMO
Yes yes, I know we all hate Microsoft, but on the face of it this was a very shrewd business decision. Nokia was getting killed by the fact that people now want their phones to do such exotic things as email and Web browsing. They had no real internal direction in terms of software development, as evidenced by the schizophrenia of Symbian and Maemo, and the fact that they were trying to do it all in-house wasn't helping things any.
Meanwhile, Microsoft comes along with a ready-made solution to Nokia's woes in the form of a pretty complete mobile platform and a $1 billion payout to help with the transition. To Nokia's idiot board of directors this probably looked like a no-brainer. Meanwhile Microsoft gets amazing value in the form of a very, very large company now pushing out its software products worldwide. This isn't going to put WP7 ahead of Android or iOS, not by a long shot, but it will do wonders in terms of shoring up their position.
On the flip side of things, consider Motorola. At one point they were kind of in the same boat as Nokia, having missed the first wave of the smartphone epidemic, and went from being the company that had it all with the once-super cool RAZR to an also-ran. They got behind Android in a very complete and enthusiastic way and the results have really paid off for them. I'd venture to say that they make some of the best Android phones out there, and they're taking a great stab at the tablet market. And no one had to pay them $1 billion to do it!
In short, this is great news for MS, bad news for Nokia fans. I always thought the path to Palm's demise was paved by Windows Mobile ending up on Treo smartphones. They just couldn't be bothered to invest in an innovate mobile OS of their own until webOS, and that was obviously a day late and a dollar short...
He's not a n00b, he's a highly trained and experienced marketing person, selling the same old 'viral memes' that they think is a good way to get "mindshare" for a dud product.
They do give themselves away by banging on about the developer experience, when its a product aimed at consumers who don't give a fig about development. you could program the things using goats blood sacrifices for all consumers care, and someone trying to explain how good the product is should really be describing how intuitive it is to use, how its a new design of interface to help you organise your stuff. (too bad it appears to be so Facebook centric)
and definitely do not talk about silverlight! (besides, most phone devs want C/C++ development, not to rewrite everything they do for other platforms in .NET). If MS really was interested in "developers, developers, developers" they'd realise that devs want a common platform upon which to code so we can reuse code and don't have to write the same damn thing several times. And definitely not in Silverlight - you were right to ignore it at the PDC, go open standard HTML5 (or even Qt, go on MS, do a Qt port to WP7 like the projects for Android and iPhone). Ignore the vocal minority who demanded to keep their Silverlight skills, let that platform stagnate and slowly die.
Someone mod this insightful. The MS astroturfing has been getting out of hand lately.
Well, based on experience of both, I'd say Visual studio is a much better development tool than Eclipse. I also prefer C# to Java or Objective C.
Some of us actually quite like Microsoft's dev tools. We're familiar with them and they do the job they do fairly well.
It's not about whether it's good or not - it's that this guy obviously is shilling because of the way he talks, and the speed with which he responded to the story.
I've never used WP7, and only used iOS briefly. WP7 did look like it had a nice smooth flashy interface from the videos I've seen, but I don't base my choice of OS purely on how flashy it looks. Having said that, it's kind of funny how shit even Windows 7 (the desktop version) looks whenever I have to use it. I'm guessing Ubuntu does a lot more anti-aliasing on its interface than Win7.
which is totally what she said
enjoy your silver Nokia.
The Nokia manager doesn't care.
He's just enjoying his signing bonus & polishing his resume so he can bail ship.
Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
'promote and develop' windows phones and slide to obscurity in the process ....
..
.... DONT !
great case of forfeiting long term future for short term gain on behalf of nokia
nokia
Read radical news here
But still we are not seeing competition with level playing fields. Corporate desk tops and office applications are still dominated by Microsoft. Media entertainment market is still dominated by Apple, another closed proprietary system. For smartphones and tablets there is some small battle going on between Android and iOS. Search engine is still dominated by Google.
Instead of open battle between the companies fighting in the open duking it out in close range combat, each giant has built a fortress and are fighting each other with long range artillery. For the consumers to benefit we need level playing fields and major players in each arena.
Last century was not a battle between Capitalism and Communism. It was between Competitionism (to coin a term) and Controlled economies. By misattributing the fall of Berlin wall to Capitalism instead of Competitionism, we are working to preserve existing winners in each sector of economy. Consolidating the power in the hands of Microsofts, Goldman-Sachs, BofA, Wallmarts, HomeDepots etc instead of creating multiple players who can actually fight each other for the privilege of serving us. There is no special interest lobbying group for the winners of tomorrow, for those who could create millions jobs in the coming decade. Our political system rewards people who benefit by the status quo.
OK, here is the obligatory, Get off my lawn.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Such a shitty friend they have to PAY people to hang out with them.
It's not that at all, it's just obvious. 1 minute after the story was posted. At least this time they didn't make it quite so obvious. Last time I saw it they had several large paragraphs of pro-MS sentiment in the first post - again posted 1 minute after the story was up. The "best possible tools" line is a complete give-away though, seriously who outside of a marketing department would even say that? I certainly don't think that any programming tools available today are the best possible.
which is totally what she said
yes, quite right - 14 million for that quarter, not 40. sorry guys.
I have also been using Maemo the last year and it is a vary good linux/mobile system it is lacking in overall mobile phone performable it is still using the n900 like laptop wasting performance and battery. that could have been used better.
My next telephone is going to be a Android whit full qwerty keyboard if Nokia don’t make a new Maemo or a good Meego phone within 6 months.
Jukka Eklund at Nokia writes to the Meego Dev list: "I am thrilled to announce a little thing we started at Nokia. Basically we want to have MeeGo running in N900 device, so that it's really usable as your daily development device. Basic Handset UX should work, phone calls, SMS, web browsing. So we are concentrating on a few selected features and polish those to be "perfect". It might mean that we leave out some things in MeeGo 1.2 trunk for this edition, but that is not the default intention.
We are doing this fully on the open, and I hope this is an interesting project where we all in the community work towards the same goal: have a great MeeGo edition in the N900. This work is naturally based on the great work done already by N900 adaptation team lead by Harri and Carsten.
The wiki is up here: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition. It will populated with more information as we go, thanks for the patience.
Br, ...Also folks, be sure to stay tuned for the new Nokia N950 meant only as a (likely) unsubsidized Developer's hardware refresh of the N900. Only rumor has it that it will not arrive with a slide-out keyboard. How important is having a N900-style keyboard to you, along with the new Meego Love Nokia software continues to offer?"
Jukka
Developer Edition product manager"
[note this was posted as an article Saturday and wasn't accepted as newsworthy by Slashdot. I cannot imagine why not.]
I heard that tiger blood sacrifices were much better...
The truly scary question is which is better for the entire discussion thread, a MS AstroPost, or the improved Russian Goatse guy?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Microsoft has to keep buying business-- I'm wondering what kind of fancy accounting they're doing to prop up their revenue figures.
what a surprise? it knows that it has only one primary function. so,,,,, it's getting late?
most phone devs want C/C++ development, not to rewrite everything they do for other platforms in .NE. If MS really was interested in "developers, developers, developers" they'd realise that devs want a common platform upon which to code so we can reuse code and don't have to write the same damn thing several times.
It's not hard to use MSVS with portable C/C++.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I mean, this is /. - so whatever Microsoft does is bad :)
I am a developer, and I am currently evaluating a mobile platform to move my application to. The application requires both fairly extensive user interface and significant graphic processing. /. about its responsivness or lack thereof when handling sound, for example), as well as because our current code base while quite portable, is C/C++. These issues would make development technically difficult for us - not impossible, but simply not economically feasible. No go at this point.
1. Android: The good - our code would port into native Android quite well and work with all appropriate optimizations. But the NDK does not really have a UI component, and writing our own UI is both non-cost effective and probably won't look the way users would like it to look. Java is not suitable both due to limits on performance (see elsewhere on
(Why, oh why did they decide to put Java into the mix there? If only there was a native GUI, Android would have been perfect for us. But I digress)
2. iOS/iPad/iPhone - technically these would work, but we are not terribly eager to get into a single-platform solution. Sure, they are big and have many devices out there, but these devices are all the same and come from a single hw vendor. Aside from that there are API and optimization issues, due to some quick and shoddy decisions that Apple made when putting iOS together. The resulting product would not be as efficient as we'd like and Apple hardware does not entirely hit the target market. On top of that, some of the requirements of Apple store are incompatible with what we do, so we'd have to remove functionality or otherwise work around legal hurdles. So - a weak "may be" only because there is little choice for now.
3. Here comes the Windows part. Our code would build/run on those devices natively wiuth all appropriate optimizations. There is a native accessible (C/C++) GUI, without a need of Java shims or custom UIs. It is not locked to a single hardware vendor, so in theory we could expect a number of tablets and other devices to satisfy various user needs. A small snag - not too many devices available quite yet :)
So, personally I am rooting for Nokia + Windows. If this works out, it will provide is the shortest most direct path to give mobile application to our users.
Admittedly, I would just as well welcome a complete Android NDK (with full GUI integration, to remove any need to glue Java and native code together). Perhaps it's there already? :) It's hard to know seeing as very little of NDK is properly documented.
And now we return to our usual Microsoft bashing programming :)
Some of us actually quite like Microsoft's dev tools. We're familiar with them and they do the job they do fairly well.
Stockholm syndrome.
And as usual the windows fanboys think everybody should use windows and spout their opinions as devine fact.
Its a real shame that a supposed tech website like Slashdot has it's comments section consistently shitted up by people like Alex Belits who can't read anything pro-MS without having to play the 'shill' card. Its even more of a shame that the readers of this site, who so often like to use words like 'groupthink' and 'sheep' to describe other people, are so embrassingly and transparently guilty of exactly the same thing when they mod shit like OP's post up.
They do give themselves away by banging on about the developer experience, when its a product aimed at consumers who don't give a fig about development.
.NET).
If it was marketing people, surely they'd know abut this. But developers do care. Given an even choice, I'll pick the platforms that's easiest to develop for. Moire developers = more apps.
and definitely do not talk about silverlight! (besides, most phone devs want C/C++ development, not to rewrite everything they do for other platforms in
Speak for yourself. I want a language with memory management. Sure, some compatibility with C might be nice so I can add lua or something but I like that modern languages deal with memory for me.
The question that this raises, for me, is as follows: "If Microsoft paid Nokia $1 billion(plus the special-BFF ability to customize WP7 to a degree that others cannot), this suggests that either A) Nokia was largely willing, possibly with the customization proviso; but one or both parties were worried about Nokia's ability to keep on course long enough to iterate out a good WP7 product(not necessarily because of bankrupcy, from which they are a good ways off; but because of shareholders demanding a new plan with expected better returns, or similar pressure) or B)Our Google Overlords had an offer that needed to be outbid... If A, what hold-ups were MS and or Nokia worried about? If B, was Google also offering sweet, sweet, cash money? Or was the perceived superiority of the Android world worth less than; but not too much less than, $1billion?
You don't get as rich as Microsoft by paying for things that you can get for free. So, that strongly suggests that there was an offer(in cash or in code) worth not too much less than $1 billion on the table, presumably from Google(or possibly Intel). Who was it from? Was there also substantial cash in it? Or is the perceived delta between WP7 and the alternatives actually ~$1billion in the eyes of Nokia and MS?
I'm not sure about Nokia, since I haven't owned one of their phones in year, but after getting to play with WP7, I will agree that it is a nice mobile OS. I think most people who would speak ill of it haven't even tried it yet. Personally I like the way that the UI is laid out much more than either Android or iOS, but different strokes for different folks and all that.
My biggest reason for holding off on getting a WP7 phone right now is the outrageous prices. The cheapest I've seen was a little over $400 USD and I'm not willing to spend more than about $200 on a smartphone. Until then, I'm just going to stick with my Linux (rooted Motomagx) phone.
35 years ago Bill and Paul stuck it to MITS for putting their software on the Altair.
Now Nokia has figured out how to get Microsoft to swing the other way and pay them.
Too funny.
Sounds like Nokia will be another Novel, its just a matter of time now for them to go tits up just like Novel.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
Question: What EXACTLY is wrong with Silverlight, other than you don't like the parent company? Because while I'm not a coder I'd have to say the SilveOS full OS in a browser is a pretty damned impressive demo. I'd say if you can cook up something THAT cool in Silverlight and actually have it run smooth in bog standard Firefox with no funkiness needed you ought to be able to cook up anything in it.
Me personally I never understood this whole "hate a language" thing (except maybe Brainfuck, but that was evil from birth) since all languages are tools and it is up to the coder to use it correctly instead of acting like a monkey with a wrench beating on a bomb. I've seen damned nice apps written in everything from C to VB and the coders I've known usually didn't have any trouble picking up a language.
So what exactly is wrong with the language known as Silverlight? I haven't seen it used a lot, but that doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly usable tool, just unpopular.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
It used to be the only reasons people dealt with m$ is that they were assholes or they were forced to do so by assholes.
Interesting. Which IDE do you consider to be better?
I prefer Smurf blood sacrifices.
Let the streets run blue with Smurf blood!!!
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
$1B to ensure the death of an open source competitor? Bargain!
It's nifty that they did this, but wouldn't you say this was a day late, dollar short overall? I seriously doubt that Nokia would market anything like an N950 because they've sold Qt off to someone else and they've said they're pretty much ditching MeeGo and Symbian for Windows Phone- unless they don't have clauses in there to sneak it in under radar and the current upper management is going to quietly develop a backup plan for this if it doesn't work, the N950's not terribly likely to happen.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I agree. Nokia will be very pleased with the features.
Actually, even though I've just been using a pretty basic text editor (I use syntax highlighting and line numbers but that's about it) for all my web development stuff, I did quite like Visual Studio for C++ stuff around 1999. I haven't used that many IDEs, but it is much more responsive than Eclipse at least, and better with the BASIC IDEs and Delphi that I'd worked with previously. The lack of built in GUI design options was the only thing I didn't like, but they must have that by now?
I think Visual C++ 6 and Exchange are the only 2 MS products that I actually have had much respect for over the years.
which is totally what she said
I'm not saying that I think it's the best possible tool though as even if it was the best available tool, it wouldn't be the best possible. I haven't tried enough of the alternatives to be able to say how high it should rank, but I certainly wouldn't put it below even just using a text editor. I like being able to just hit one key to compile and run rather than bringing down my console, so in those terms any IDE would be better than a text editor.. also having a project tree is nice.
which is totally what she said
Because no one wants a web controlled by MS technology. You laugh now because competition exists with Flash, etc. But what happens when MS starts throwing around billions of dollars for exclusivity on major sites? MLB comes to mind.
It's not about technology. It's about a company that thinks in terms of total control, not competition.
iOs, Android, WebOS... was there really room for another platform? Wasn't Nokia taking a huge risk in a crowded market? Is Nokia really taking a risk with Windows 7? Just sounds like a business deci$ion to me.
www.itjerk.com
Except it isn't a full OS. If you use the web browser, it just frames the pages with your browser. It isn't running its own. A "full OS" would run entirely within silverlight and not rely on your native browser. To test, right click anywhere within the "OS." Now open a web page. Now right click within the web page. Magically, you get your browser's context menu and can open new tabs outside the "OS".
People don't buy MS because they want to, they buy it because they think they need to or because they don't realise anything else exists...
Phones are different, people know that alternatives exist...
Windows is associated with crashing, blue screens, viruses and other forms of malware. People don't want that on their phones...
When people see a product with the same name from the same company they assume it will be compatible, windows mobile has never been compatible with desktop windows leaving many users severely disappointed...
Windows mobile 6.x and earlier versions were also so horrendously bad that they have left a bad taste in many peoples mouths...
MS' most successful attempts to enter new markets have actually been achieved by distancing themselves from windows, look at the xbox for instance, i doubt that would have been as successful if it had been called "Windows Game" or something.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
I'm not going to argue that Visual Studio is bad, but saying "nothing comes close" is bullshit. I haven't even used a lot of IDEs in the last few years, but if we're talking Windows only IDEs, Borland's stuff is still pretty nice.
If I were to go back to an IDE over a text editor, I'd probably use Eclipse just for the cross-platform nature.
which is totally what she said
this reminds me of the MS apple deal in the late 1990. time will tell if nokia can handle it.
It's not running in "bog standard Firefox" if it's using Silverlight, any more than DirectX games run in "bog standard Linux". To run Silverlight you need to install an extra framework. One which is currently only available for MS controlled platforms. Even if there was a Linux port I still would try to avoid it where I could.
I wouldn't want to develop apps in Mono in case MS manage to shut Mono down somehow for example.
which is totally what she said
That's pretty insane. It took $1,000,000,000 to convince Nokia to use WP7 instead of Android. This will be offset by a certain amount for each handset that Nokia sells.
Since Nokia is in the business of being profitable, it said: "Hey, we're projecting to sell X number of handsets. That'll net us $y for each handset, or $z in total." So X*y=z. Under the MS agreement, if Microsoft's cut is 'm', the equation is: X*(y-m)=z+1,000,000,000.
There comes at time where X*m > 1,000,000,000, and that's when Nokia starts to lose money on the deal. So Nokia is making a bet that they're not going to be selling more than a certain number of handsets.
Also in their projections are two other variables: the number of [A]ndroid phones they're going to be selling, and the number of [M]icrosoft phones they're going to be selling. A*y-1,000,000,000 M*(y-m). They've got their brand, quality hardware, and Microsoft fanbase going for them now. They're also sidestepped the competition going on in Android-land. At the end of the day, they're still going to need to price competitively with similarly spec'd Android and iOS devices.
Is it a smart bet? In the short term, probably yes. In the long term, their support infrastructure an internal expertise is going to have a vested interest in staying with Microsoft. App developers will view WP7 as marginalized (and it will be), so there isn't going to be as robust an app market in WP7 as there is for iOS or Android.
Of course, I'm inclined to believe Android is the winner, long term. Just look at their market share over the past 2 years: Android has gone steadily up, at the expense of EVERYONE but Apple, who has managed to stay steady at 20-odd percent. With dual-core Tegra devices and similarly spec'd hardware, these devices are truly coming into their own in 2011 as pocket computers. Probably within 2 or 3 years, you'll be able to use a mobile phone as a pseudo-thin-client, docked via HDMI (or wireless HDMI) to a computer monitor or big-screen TV, and controlled via a bluetooth keyboard/mouse or similar device. If Wireless HDMI is viable at that time (without killing the battery) then you'll be able to use the device itself as a remote control when exported to a TV. This will outmode the PC, for the vast majority of users who simply browse the web, email, watch video, and chat.
In that kind of environment, are you going to bet your money on iOS, Android, or WP7? Innovation, device features, and price are going to be leaning towards Android. iOS devices are purposefully gimped (HDMI-out, anyone?). WP7 isn't going to have the kind of robust app market
My understanding is that Microsoft is going to be providing one billion dollars' worth of development services and infrastructure to Nokia, allowing Nokia to focus on hardware and cut their R&D costs accordingly. They're not actually writing them a check or anything.
In return, Nokia is choosing Windows Phone as their primary smartphone OS (for which they'll pay a license fee per handset), and also licensing Nokia's map products to the other Windows Phone OEMs. There's going to be money moving both ways.
Yes, I realise that this is either astroturfing or a troll, but responding to it still makes sense. This post essentially represents both Nokia's and Microsoft's best hopes for success from this partnership, and it is pretty clear that it is a very slim hope.
The major problem with the partnership is that Nokia doesn't have a Windows Phone to sell today. The best that they can do is sell people on the idea of a cool new Windows Phone that *may* be available before Christmas (not likely). Current Windows phones are getting slaughtered by everyone right now, and this announcement is only going to make things worse over the short run.
Think about it. Microsoft's current Windows Phone partners have just found out that Microsoft is willing to pay Nokia over $1 billion U.S. to compete with them. If Windows Phone sales have been poor to this point imagine what they are going to be like over the next year as all of the current Windows phone manufacturers begin their marketing campaign against Windows. Microsoft has just pushed everyone that isn't Nokia into the Android camp. Unless, of course, Microsoft is willing to make similar deals with other handset manufacturers (even less likely).
Not to mention the obvious fact that Apple and Google are both going to widen their developer lead over Microsoft while Nokia gets up to speed. Android and iPhone have tons of developers. Windows phone has almost none in comparison. A year from now the situation is going to be even worse. That means that when Nokia finally does launch its phone it will primarily launch with software Microsoft and Nokia have paid to develop internally, with a few 1.0 ports of popular software titles that Microsoft and Nokia have bribed independents to offer. Even if the hardware is sheer genius Nokia's phone is not going to be competitive on the software side.
Plus, all this assumes that Nokia's first Windows phone won't suck. I think that's a long shot. Microsoft has a long history of sucky phones, and Nokia has no history of dealing with Microsoft's idiosyncrasies. Those consumers brave enough to buy a Nokia-Microsoft phone are going to be beta testers, and if the phone is not flawless the blogosphere is going to crucify it. Not that it really matters. When it comes to phones Microsoft's brand is probably already toxic. The current WinPhones reviewed very well. That did *not* translate into sales. There are simply too many people that wouldn't buy a Windows phone if Microsoft paid them. The early adopters already have a smart phone, and they are happy with it. Heck, they probably have even invested a considerable amount of time and money in the software for their smart phone. Luring these people (and those people that invariably follow their lead) to a new platform is going to be very hard, especially considering Microsoft's history in the mobile sector.
Both Microsoft and Nokia needed to do something to remain relevant. From that perspective this deal makes sense. After all, they could hit the ball out of the park and become an actual contender. Their phone is going to need to be something special, however, or it is just going to be the smart phone without useful applications.
Meanwhile Nokia effectively (?) sell QT (to Digia):
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/03/07/nokia-to-sell-qt-commercial-licensing-and-services-to-digia
I don't know what would be needed to be sold to call it a "sell" but whatever.
Also that doesn't necessary mean they won't use it themselves but whatever.
Well I agree with you. I can't wait for Nokia's first WP7 device.
I also love developing apps with silverlight, I think that was a great idea on MS part.
This isnt about phones. This is about small portable computers with phone functionality.
Nokia will still make phones without all the bloat.
Thanks for the info!
If I only had mod points...
Get your dogma outta my yard!
It's probably a Nokia employee. That $1 Billion has to be spent somewhere.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
You don't have to use Java, I prefer to use Ruby (see Ruboto). Android is very open, you are allowed to use any language you want, even interpreted ones (those are banned on the iPhone, I don't know how the situation is on WP7)
My personal opinion is that WP7 is the first OS that actually has style. Android is ugly and iPhone is very plain, imho.
Nonetheless, I'm still very happy with my Android for these reasons:
- I was able to replace the OS with a customized version that allows me to use my phone as a wifi hotspot
- I replaced the home screen interface with a different one that is closer to how I want it to work
- I can program apps for it without owning a Mac, in fact the SDK runs on Windows, Linux, Mac and since it's open source some people are porting it to BSD
- I got Ruboto IRB from the market for free, wrote a little server directly on the phone, opened the terminal emulator that comes with the custom rom (Cyanogenmod), and used telnet to connect to localhost, all within maybe 5 minutes.
While Android is the perfect thing for tech savvy people, I honestly don't know which device I would recommend to the "average" user. Maybe it depends on the integration: WP7 for Microsoft users (Outlook, XBox...), iPhone for the Maccies (iTunes) and Android for the Google users (Mail, Calendar, GTalk etc.)
8 billion US dollars.
1 billion... Really doesn't cover that...
Deleted
Managers choose VS, not developers.
Where I work, the developer choose the tools. We chose: Visual Studio 2010, XCode, and Eclipse. Each one for a different job.
The title of this post deserve a +5 Funny!
Just wondering.....
and apparently followed a similar path to NASA GLORY....
http://comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2011/3/comScore_Reports_January_2011_U.S._Mobile_Subscriber_Market_Share
Although the raw drop from 9.7% to 8% looks like a slight dip; remember that it really a more precipitous 17+% drop in its market.
>And i agree, i challange anyone finding such a pile of crap as Visual Studio in use today. Nothing compares to it.
Why is it a pile of crap? Seriously.
This space for rent.
Whores.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
What's wrong with Silverlight - well, to be fair to it, its not a language, its declarative XML-based markup that has C# behind it to do the good bits. Its a bit like HTML + javascript overall.
But my point is that I don't agree with the plethora of languages, frameworks and platforms that have appeared recently. I know MS is trying to provide a single, common platform based around .NET for all developers to use... the trouble is, that platform is common only for Windows developers, and I have issues with that kind of lock in. I disagree with objective-c for the same reason, we all spend our efforts writing code for 1 platform and than have to manage the pain of porting or rewriting for the others.
So, for Silverlight. what's wrong with it is that its a Microsoft only language. If I have to write a XML-based markup, I'd prefer it to be a more open, standard one like HTML5 with javascript, even if Silverlight+C# is 'better'. The disadvantages of it being a 'proprietary' platform outweigh the benefits to society.
You're quite right about them all being tools, and only bad programmers blame their tools :) but if I need a hammer, I want a lump of metal firmly attached to a lump of wood, not a super-charged hammering device that requires special batteries from the hammer corporation that will only bang in x-shaped nails that can be purchased only after signing a licencing agreement.
150 comments so far and talk about IDEs and not one single flamewar post on vi vs emacs vs butterflies. What's wrong with you kids these days. Now get off my lawn!
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The OS was made available only on AT&T and Tmobile, leaving out half the market (CDMA Spring and Verizon). The CDMA support is coming this month. The numbers are not that bad for a nascent platform.
Since it's a brand new framework, apps are just ramping to 10,000, these things take their time. It's not even 5 months since launch.
>..then why would they buy a Nokia one when there are phones from LG and HTC that are just as good.
Same reason people bought a lot of Motorola Droids and Samsung Galaxy S, better hardware and looks.
This space for rent.
Stick with a cross-platform text editor. Both vi and emacs are avaiable for Windows.
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/
http://www.vim.org/download.php#pc
I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
ah, you want a language that automatically frees your memory for you, but still requires you to manually manage handles, non-managed resources, references to live objects (*especially* event delegates), and any object that contains a long-lived or external item (such as a socket, DB connection or file).
Or you could use a language that gave you much better control over your memory and object lifetimes with features such as RAII and smart wrappers, and still provide C interface where needed.
I prefer to pick the platform where most consumers buy the stuff I write. The tool itself is really of secondary importance, unless I work for free.
I haven't seen WP7 though I gather from the responses to the parent that it's not so great.
If you gather things from Slashdot's responses to MS's products... well there you go. Check it out yourself with an open mind, it's actually pretty good.
This space for rent.
Compare to Apple? Apple already has total control and is squeezing it now.
This space for rent.
No shit, 1 minute after the story is posted no less. Saw something similar happen around the end of last year too, but it probably happens more often than that and I just have missed it.
If it wasn't for the "best possible tools" crack then it wouldn't have been quite so obvious, but the rest of it is just another "part of a campaign by Microsoft to keep Nokia from choosing Google's Android operating system" as the summary says. Interesting that they'd rather see people buy iPhones than Android. And that they think that they can change our opinions just from some noob saying how great MS is. Slashdot does have a lot of groupthink, but it doesn't quite work like that.
See http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/08/1424243/Why-Do-Videogames-Struggle-With-Sex
See his/her first comment and the time and the time of posting the article. I guess you're just paranoid.
This space for rent.
Again, see his posting history and the other stories where he had long comments under a minute of posting the article... I guess you're just biased because it's MS.
This space for rent.
You've clearly never done games console development. VS2010 is way better than the industry standard tools for other console platforms.
As for Eclipse vs. VS2010, I just don't see it. Eclipse seems fine for the few days I've been using it but so does the most recent version of VS I used (I suspect it was 2008 but I could be mistaken).
As long as it has an integrated debugger I'm not to fussed.
I would like to say that it bothers me that you were marked down to -1 Flamebait for an opinion that you expressed in a forum that supposedly promotes open discussion. I wish I had the points to mod you up.
Apple was just bitchslapped by Google's Android project.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Ah, fair enough. Last time it happened, I checked the posting history and it was their very first post, with about 1000 words, a minute after the article appeared (and no subscription).
which is totally what she said
I seem to be much more paranoid than average sure, but the last time I saw it happen it was a similarly worded post, with the first post on the account, with several hundred words all posted within a minute of the article. If he's not shilling then I'm interested to know his opinion of Android. Going with only either MS or Apple seems to be very short sighted to me. Going with MS would help foster competition somewhat, but I don't think they're the best company to give a foothold in any market.
which is totally what she said
Nice Troll. Apple wants to control its own ecosystem, but they use and define open standards. There is a difference.
Jonathanjk.com
On Nokia C6-00, Symbian smartphone with keyboard with GPS and what not bought for about 200 Euros (I guess it translates into 200$) I can send my emails just fine, heck, it's actually quite comfortable with hardware keyboard.
Didn't know that Opera Mobile was that bad or made by Nokia.
The most notable thing missing on C6 and visible on on more expensive smartphones is: animations. Everywhere. Now I understand where the "dual core mobile CPU" thing comes from, mobiles are made for smoothly animating menus, it seems. Having to recharge your mobile every 4 days or less is now a norm. Oh well...
Why did Nokia have to compete with Android, is beyond me.
I'd like to point out that this was not a troll. It's my genuine experience, plus a genuine question (that I can't be arsed to install Windows and a free version of Visual Studio to find out the answer for myself).
Also there was a grammar mistake when I said "better with" rather than "better than".
which is totally what she said
That's the problem when a company gets to a certain size, they have so much money that they can outbid anyone with a more genuine or legitimate interest could afford.
It's like walking into a car rental place to pick up the car you've reserved, as a guy runs past you up to the desk and demands a car. Sorry sir all our cars are reserved. "How about $1000 for a reserved car?" Guess you're walking now aren't you? It's not fair, but I suppose that's how it works.
MS is behind, and is trying to buy market position. And it'll probably work to a degree. But that doesn't help us, the consumer. What it means is that products that normally wouldn't be in our face so much due to lower quality, will be. And things we take for granted when making buying decisions won't work the same. That leads to the consumer getting less than they paid for and were expecting.
It also is damaging to Nokia's brand, because they're basically damaging their reputation by accepting what amounts to a bribe to let MS's lower quality product sell under Nokia's better reputation. For many companies, (and I think this includes cell phone manufacturers) their brand is their most valuable company asset. The net result is MS's brand increases in value, and Nokia's lowers. They must think that's worth $1B. But that's a lot of moola, and Nokia's in something of a decline as of late, so maybe they're right and this is the most responsible decision. I can name a dozen former partners of MS and can't think of a single one that came out a winner as a result, time will tell how Nokia fairs but it doesn't look promising. We've gone over several discussions here recently about the perils of partnering with MS, my money's still on the same bet there - MS will benefit and their new "partner" will take a kick in the junk.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
A huge international corporation chooses short-term profiteering over long term viability. Why am I not even a itty bitty tiny bit suprised.
In case you're wondering why you keep being modded down, it's because you're not putting any real information in your post. You don't explain what MS Visual Studio does better than other things. I can think of a few things that other programs do better than VS (although I've not used VS for a while, so these may be out of date):
I'm sure there must be some things that VS does well, but from your post all I know is that you like it. This seems like astroturfing - if you have a valid argument that VS does somethings better than other IDEs, then list what these things are and why.
[1] This one, at least, I know is current. I'm currently teaching a module on HPC at the local university, and some of my students decided to write the assignment code in VS then port it to the Linux lab machines later. They all found that it became much easier to find bugs when they tried compiling with gcc and got sensible error messages.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Nokia is falling behind and losing market share
Nokia's market share is only slipping slightly, and their total sales has constantly increased (it's just that the market has got bigger). Their problem is that Apple and RIM have grabbed the most profitable market segments. Apple makes about twice as much money as Nokia, with under a tenth the sales.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The only reason they would choose Windows Phone 7 is a very, very large hat of money. It certainly doesn't make any sense from a technical perspective. Maybe Symbian^3 / Meego were foundering, but either Android or WebOS would have been far more suitable paths out of Nokia's predicament.
Perhaps the money isn't straight cash but it must surely add up to a lot of concessions, e.g. free licenses, free marketing, developer licences, a cut of ad revenues, a cut of app sales, premium support, privileges afforded to Nokia in the placement of icons, apps, skins etc. in WP7. Or a combination of those things. Whatever the reason, it came in a very large brown paper envelope.
Something just short of negative one billion dollars. At least, Nokia thinks so. I think they got screwed, but they can probably hang on for a couple years.
Its OK to hate a language when your vendor Datatel tells you need Java and Silverlight to make their new UI 4.x work...
Its OK to hate a language when you've had to work with SAP/CRM which only 2 years ago REQUIRED IE6 because it used Javascript, Active X and Java - I used to call their client the unholy trinity.
When you realize that one of the reasons MS does things is simply simply because they want to usurp Java or Flash - thats evil.
Not just MS wants control of technology, but Apple does as well. Apple is starting to get a deathgrip on third party portable apps.
Want to know what lock-in is? Look at Apple:
You have to use their OS.
You have to use their IDE to write code in.
You have to use their packaging tools.
You have to pay them a C note yearly for the privilege.
You have to hope that their approval process works with no guarentees.
You have to hope Apple doesn't sit on your app or updates, so you don't miss the showing in their just added list.
You have to hope that Apple decides not to take your app's functionality into their core OS, and kick you out.
Of course, your Objective-C codebase is not compatible with anyone else's, so if you do get tossed out on your arse by Apple, it will be extremely difficult to re-engineer for another platform.
The guy or company who comes up with the ability to have a single codebase that makes working code for iOS, Android, and WP7 will make a mint, especially if the program could move UI changes.
Oh come off it. Anytime someone has an opinion of Microsoft that can't be described as "dripping in hate" the Slashdot crew lines up to accuse him of being Bill Gates. It used to be funny, but these days, it's just plain pathetic.
It's about a company that thinks in terms of total control, not competition.
You mean... every company?
Hah - thats the catch! S50R5 apps support touch screen, previous versions may require hardware buttons your N97 doesn't have. Symbian fragmentation is far far more nightmarish than Android or iOS.
what happens when MS starts throwing around billions of dollars for exclusivity on major sites? MLB comes to mind.
The inauguration chose Silverlight, which I believe at the time had something like less than 20% adoption: http://politics.slashdot.org/story/09/01/17/2049257/MS-Silverlight-To-Stream-Obama-Inauguration-Events
Even if there was a Linux port I still would try to avoid it where I could.
Then you will NOT want to click on this link .
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
It gives reason to ask the question "How much of that $1B will end up in Elop's pocket?" Certainly much more than the $4M in MS stock he owns.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
I wish I had a link to the last post I accused of this. It was the first post ever on a just-created account, one minute after the story was posted, with probably more words in the comment than is humanly possible to type in two minutes.. all pro-MS BS.
I wasn't quite sure before that that any company would even bother to do such things as post shill comments to Slashdot, but I know now I'm sure that it does actually happen, rather than just seeing the accusations. We do perhaps overreact a bit though.
which is totally what she said
Damnit.. the logo is so cool.. it's kind of like the Kindle logo.. must.. resist :s
which is totally what she said
I think it sad that someone gets modded down for disagreement. I guess this is slashdot.
On the iPhone the first homescreen is for search.
On Android every homescreen is the same.
On Windows Phone 7 the left homescreen is pretty badass, but the second one (used for apps) sucks.
Apple came with the iPhone 4; better battery life, faster, HD recording and banned Flash.
Android came with a simple update that simply doubled the battery life, made the phone 3 times faster, included HD recording and included Flash (the phone's now 3 times faster and Flash draws back 2/3rd of performance, still making the phone 1/3rd faster) - you can shoot my math with this one
Now Windows 7 comes with a fancy new thing.
Google will probably just include another homescreen like Apple for the information centered stuff, bring some basic typography goodness like on the new Windows Phone, include some hubs and it has beaten Microsoft's advantage with a simple update that took 3 months to release.
Now you might say that Google's problem in fragmentation of Android (thousand different versions), but Microsoft is in for some serious problems too given they will have to support a lot of different CPU's, so apps need to be C#'ed anyway, leaving devs with serious problems as well.
Now how's Apple and Microsoft going to respond to Google's awesomeness. Well they can't because they are too slow. Google simply kicks ass.
Here be signatures
So, Dracula is buying out one of the larger blood banks? This only makes sense if Dracula admits failure as a hunter and starts to think like a farmer. Only problem is, blood donation is voluntary and we're on to him..
I think this is what you're looking for. http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1831452&cid=33967886
Microsoft partnered with yahoo and destroyed yahoo search. Look where yahoo is today (Thanks to management and MS) Now same would be done for Nokia..
I want to like Mono, I really do, but anyone that believes that Moonlight is a workable replacement for Silverlight has clearly not tried to actually use Moonlight for anything.
Thankyou. Still no other posts on that account, either!
which is totally what she said
Here's the post I was referring to: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1831452&cid=33967886
The first post in this discussion reminded me a lot of that post.
which is totally what she said
They didn't have to throw in some of their own billions? Bargain.
That's what I hear. I was by no means advocating its use. Simply pointing out there is a Linux port available if you are brave enough.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Nokia/Elop Has a Billion Reasons To Love WP7
Dollars?
Why would I want a WP7 phone? Let's look at the ads:
Apple: Look, we've got an ultra-stylish phone with more cameras than you can shake a stick at that does everything you might possibly want to do with a computing device.
Android vendors: Apple already explained what a smartphone does so we don't have to. Expect similar stuff from us.
RIM: Our phones are made for businessmen but they work for everyone.
Microsoft: Are you sick of spending a lot of time checking your Twitter and Facebook with your smartphone's browser? Be glad because we built a device exclusively around efficiently interfacing with social media!
I don't spend enough time on Facebook to need a dedicated Facebook interface, ergo I don't need WP7. Case closed. (Seriously, I don't know if WP7 even has an app store. It might, but at least Microsoft's German ads suggest that it's a very focused device.)
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
To test, right click anywhere within the "OS." Now open a web page. Now right click within the web page.
And the context menu is now diamonds.
Compared to Google? Microsoft on the web space is a pussycat.
It's actually a great platform, and developers have the best possible tools available for making apps and games (Visual Studio, C/C++, C#, Silverlight..). It's also fast, sleek looking and up to current standards.
I'll stop laughing when it is possible to write a program in WP7 which opens a TCP socket and sends "Hello World".
In the world of networked everything don't expect anyone to take a platform with no accessable socket interface seriously.
Nokia now has Elop (former MS exec) as CEO, has prematurely abandoned their most widely deployed OS for WP7, and likely pissed off a large section of their stockholders, customers, employees and suppliers (ie, the most important people to them in order).
I think that Nokia management finally realized that the money is gone and that their saunas will go unpowered without a cash infusion of some sort.
I'm not against this deal, but it's really sad that Nokia doesn't even have a WP7 phone to release or announce at the time of the "acquisition"... this stinks of desperation and complete lack of vision (guess it gets foggy in those sauna meetings).
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Nokia have sold the commercial licensing & support unit. Licensing and customizing Qt for proprietary users/vendors was not exactly their core business anyway.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
What's the use of using open source and open standards if things are Tivoized and toll booths are set up for apps and services?
This space for rent.
I like how it's "promote and develop" rather than, oh, say, "develop, then promote"
That's the Microsoft I came to know and love in room 101.
.
Am I the only one who knows WP7 as word perfect 7?
I mean does any bother checking the ambiguity of phrases they try to create when shortening an actual name into initials to sound cool? Especially in this case where Word Perfect was a competitor to MS's office.
I played with one at Best Buy the other day, and I have to say it really wasn't that bad (I think it was a Samsung or LG). The responsiveness of the touch screen was on par with my iPhone, nothing like the sluggish POS android phones I've tried (maybe I haven't tried the right one???). The large text spilling over to the next "page" is a bit annoying, but nothing deal breaking. The aggregation of social apps into the "tiles" is a little strange for me, but I can see how someone heavily invested in multiple forms of social networking apps may like this approach. I can only assume that Nokia hardware would be better than the WP7 phone I tried, so what's the deal?
Funny, professional contractors would tend to go with the tool that lets them accomplish their purposes most efficiently. "super charged hammering devices" (a.k.a. 'nail guns') and "super charged screwing devices" (a.k.a, 'screw guns') are pretty common sights on a building site.
A contractor *can* use a hammer just as well as he can use a nail gun or a screw gun. The device simply increases his efficiency - he gets more done with less effort; and in many cases, that's why he uses the device, rather than the old-fashioned tool - he saves time, and effort, and gets the job done more quickly.
For a hobbyist, building a little shed in his back yard, perhaps an old-fashioned hammer is good enough, since he won't use it enough to justify the cost of the device. But writing off the device because YOU don't happen to need it is pretty silly.
They have to pay you to take it? I don't get it, how will MS expect to make money if they can't sell software?
if by 'pretty good' you mean 'isn't CE2, CE3, PocketPC 2002, PocketPC 2003, WM2003, WM4/5/6' then yeahh it's awesome. It still felt pretty 'flat' thought compared to iphone, maemo, and android. Probably an OK starting point but hardly up to speed yet.
I wouldn't use VS for PHP. I use notepad++. VS2010 is great. For editing xml and xsl I find it useful and for integration with Team Foundation Server it's awesome. You can create user stories, link tasks then export to excel or MS Project. You can make edits in Project and then send those changes back up to TFS.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
Nokia's project's just seem to be running very late is all. Nokia has said for a looong time already that they had 1 Meego device nearly ready for launch, and they were hoping for the end of last year.
This could very well be the N950: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tojSYC0Chms
Maybe you can imagine Nokia has this working internally with Meego, and just hasn't launched it yet for various reasons one can only guess at. Note that video is from last July. Compared to the currently shipping N8 running Symbian, well I offer that comparison as supporting evidence as to the authenticity of the video above.
http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n950-meego-phone-named-very-elegant-hardware-says-cto-video-22135076/
http://www.slashgear.com/meego-gets-new-boss-promises-unique-appeal-in-n950-08138600/
Keyboard or no keyboard. Hmmm, this indicates the whole flaw in the nokia strategy. Meego's division should NOT be producing hardware in the first place. Rather, we've seen a number of S^3 devices in recent months which reviewers have praised as having nice hardware but a tired OS. The solution would have been to draft a hardware roadmap that was both symbian and linux friendly. Nokia could ship their current locked down Symbian phones but provide a rom flasher to launch semi-functional meego handsets. The community would fill in the gaps with device drivers from android. This could still happen in the wp7 era if meego isn't to be completely abandoned.
I'm sure maemo/meego would have broader hacker community appeal if current S^3 handets, numerous on contract (at least in Aus) could be unofficially supported. Instead there's only 1 single device from 2009 and they're proposing to neuter its successor sans keyboard if it ever ships at all.
Unfortunately, it is not a question of being brave enough. Moonlight is not a replacement for Silverlight in the same way that starving to death is not a replacement for breakfast. I wish Moonlight was a credible replacement for Silverlight. I could even live with a little bit of DRM, and maybe the occasional poke in the eye.
However, Moonlight is so bad that I actually have my own re-implementation of Silverlight in Common Lisp that is considerably better than Moonlight. My version uses less memory, it crashes less often, and it starts up quicker, while still offering essentially the same functionality.
(format t "~a~%" "epic fail!")
I'm not even a Lisp hacker.
For some points:
Intellisense is okay, but Clang's autocompletion seems to work better. Purely a subjective thing there though.
I wonder which VS version you use as a comparison point here. Before VS2010, Intellisense was very shoddy on more or less complicated template code (basically as soon as you'd start to use Boost...). In VS2010, the IDE actually uses EDG compiler front-end to parse and inspect code, and so far I haven't been able to trip completion even on stuff that requires a lot of effort to deduce correctly (e.g. polymorphic Boost lambdas) - though that works slower.
VS doesn't seem to realise that C is not C++, and does some nasty things treating C as C++.
Any specific examples? VS seems to decide whether a file is C or C++ depending on the file extension, and I found it to be very pedantic about what it accepts as C input. It won't even let you declare variables in the middle of the block (C99-style).
No refactoring tools (I think this is out of date, but I'm not sure how good they are).
No, this is still spot-on. There are third-party offerings (Visual Assist etc) but they are not perfect.
That said, now that the IDE actually has a full and complete picture of the code thanks to a full-fledged parser (rather than a lot of guesswork), it's actually possible to do reliable refactoring.
Though of course this is hindered by nature of C++ as well - like, what do you do with essentially duck-typed templates, where the same member reference can mean different things depending on the instantiation of function template? Well, I guess one could still do full source analysis to see all instantiations - but that doesn't really work for template libraries, since you don't know how the user will instantiate.
No static analysis tools.
All said about refactoring above applies (i.e. not there but there is framework in place for it to be done now).
So in other words I got labeled a troll and had a pile of stupid posts that never answered the technical question of what is good/bad about Silverlight because yet again /. has been taken over by the "ZOMG M$ ZOMG!" weeinie wankers, no different than the "Lunix Lusers" or the "MacFag".
Sadly I remember when Slashdot was a TECH site where one could actually discuss the TECHNICAL advantages/disadvantages of a language without having the conversation taken over by weenie wankers whose ONLY objection is their religious sheeple zealot hatred to anything that doesn't run on their "chosen" OS.
So waste your mod points, oh teat sucking sheeple. Just remember it is YOU that are lowering the quality of discussions here and making tech looking like squee loving 14 year old girls because one can't simply discuss the merits/weakness of a TECH anymore without having wastes of space like you coming out. You are an example of what is wrong with this country as every discussion now falls for the pro rassling "dems VS repubs!" bullshit instead of meaningful debates.
To give NO reason to hate Silverlight or any other language other than "ZOMG! It isn't on my worship OS! ZOMG!" just shows what a blatant sheeple fanboy you are. If you have actual technical reasons, preferably with advantages/disadvantages weighed like a normal thinking adult lets hear them, but the "ZOMG!" bullshit really needs to DIAF.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
They didn't sell Qt, they've sold the licensing part (i.e. paper-pushing clerks which deal with contracts & support). Actual development remains in Nokia with this deal.
Elop has already sold all his MS stock, and bought 150k Nokia shares.
Apple's (and presumably Microsoft's as well) response to Google's "awesomeness" is probably laughter.
Believe me, even with a "software update that doubled battery life" the battery life is still shit.
My point is, while you're busy cheerleading Android and Google, it's obvious you haven't used any of the other phones you deride.
Ranking of battery life on my phones from best to worst:
1) Motorola Q9 (winmo6.1)
2) iPhone 4
3) iPhone original (jailbroken)
4) Nexus S (ASOP 2.3- Flash not installed)
While Microsoft could possibly have more fragmentation than iOS, it's likely to be nowhere near the scope of Android since they have hardware requirements that dictate 1Ghz ARMv7 and DirectX9 minimum. Whether they use bytecode or compiled binaries, CPU arch shouldn't matter. DirectX will take care of the rest of the GPU abstraction in a way devs already understand.
I want whatever you're smoking
$1B is much less than the 37% that Nokia lost in stock value since the rumour of the "cooperation".
There's no question that Elop's timing has cost Nokia investors money, and now it appears that the first Windows phone is almost a year out. It almost makes you wonder if Elop is actually trying to drive the stock price down. I mean, honestly, Nokia would probably have billions more in market capitalisation right now if Elop had simply been a little bit quieter about dumping Symbian. The $1 billion U.S. that Microsoft is pitching in (over 5 years) is peanuts compared to the money Nokia investors lost because of Elop's histrionics.
That explains why it was that he announced that Nokia would be deep-sixing Symbian. He wanted to drive down the price of Nokia stock as far as possible before buying in.
Well played Elop.
Microsoft has been developing software for decades longer than Google has been around. That head-start should have ensured that their software is eons ahead of anything Google's engineers could ever come up with. Instead, they have to bribe another company to play with them.
I used it (WP7) once. It was completely frustrating and unintuitive. All I can say to those who are considering it is to try it out first. MS is big on marketing.
You can't just tap a field to bring up a keyboard. I used its facebook app and it posted a message without asking me, complete with a typing error telling all my friends that I was now using Windows 7. You wouldn't believe the amount of disgusted responses I got. Wanna lose friends? Be a Microsoft supporter.
He is correct on many things. There really isn't any other IDE that can compare to Visual Studio. I also hate using Java, C# is a lot better language.
If you want to limit yourself to Windows, maybe.
Check it out yourself with an open mind
I did and it is just not in the same league as the IPhone. I haven't use Android yet, but I hear it is better in some ways and worse in others than the IPhone.
I was able to pick up an iphone and use it without instruction. Nothing seemed to work on Wp7. To enter text into a field you need to tap a separate button. In typical MS fashion, it also took the liberty, without my permission and without telling me, to tell all my fb friends that I was now using Wp7.
I agree with most of what you've said, making my own comment a bit redundant but yeah, this is the way I see it. Nokia used to be THE phone hardware giant and MS used to be THE software giant. But just like MS vs the internet in the early 90s their Windows phones were squarely business phones and they ignored the first 4 years of the new smartphone wave that the iPhone kicked off. At the same time - before the iPhone arrived Nokia's software only had to deal with a black and white dot matrix display and one or two buttons.
So basically this is the best possible deal that both companies can hope for to give themselves any kind of future in the market. Will they drop in and surf the wave or have they missed their chance by half a decade? Curious to see how it plays out.
Time for me to go back to my HTC "Windows" phone that I wiped and replaced with Android...
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
The obvious solution for Microsoft is to pay consumers $1 billion to use Winphones.
You don't have to use Java, I prefer to use Ruby (see Ruboto).
Maybe, but it makes sense to use Java. The basic tools use java, most of the tutorials assume this is the language you're using and most of the community is using it. Important for when you're learning.
Programmers are lazy. We like to use the most convenient tool. In my case I need to learn a new language anyway (C/C++ is not supported all that well) so might as well be Java.
Can't anyone develop it? Who got the brand? Digia?
As said I'm not sure what would have to be included to call it "sell" but whatever.
And no, not that it matter much for their ability to use it.
You don't have to use Apple if you don't like it. Smartphones, mp3 players, online music stores, tablets, laptops and PCs all have a lot of other vendors besides Apple. And unlike MicroSoft in the past, they haven't really used their dominance in some markets to force competition out of other markets. It's not that for Verizon to sell the iPhone that Apple demands they have to stop selling Android phones.
Apple competes in a level playing field purely on price, design, quality and usability.
There is only one thing that Apple is paranoid about: Their brand.
If you understand that, then all of a sudden most of the restraints they put in place make sense. They care less about how much they sell then about what they sell. In the end they'd like to instil in people's minds Apple == "insanely great" to quote Steve Jobs.
But if you don't like their products, there are plenty others competing with them.
The want to be the Mercedes or BMW of the tech industry, but if you don't like them, you can but an Audi, or if you think they're to expensive, you can buy a Skoda or Suzuki. Apple has just decided that it's not interested in the low margin cheap stuff, as it tarnishes their brand, so you'll never find them making the tech equivalent of a Chevrolet Aveo or Hyundai Accent.
RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Laugh if you want, but Microsoft spent far more than that getting people to buy the original XBox.
I think a good way to look at the situation is to refer to the browser wars.
WinPhone7 is Opera. iOS is IE. Android is Firefox. iOS and Android have staked out the ideological mindshares (better integration with current world but locked down vs free and open but rougher around the edges). WinPhone7 offers a good product, just like Opera does, but it doesn't fulfill any real market need except for a functional product with some neat features.
And that is why neither WinPhone7 or Opera can get ahead. Even if the overall experience is better on those products, it's not enough better to pull the market.
PS Chrome browser made headway by attacking another corner, speed and simplicity. WinPhone7 could go that way, but that is not very MS.
unbelievable I would think that nokia would choose best quality not more money ... im disappointed
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