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Anonymous Leaks Internal Bank of America Emails

euphemistic writes "Reportedly the information Wikileaks was set to disclose about a particular bank back from December, 'a massive batch of internal Bank of America emails' has been leaked. While the site hosting it seems to currently be down due to the obviously gigantic amount of traffic interested in this leak, the leak is said to pertain to the Bank of America's improper foreclosure on homes. 'The report came from a former employee with Balboa Insurance — a risk management and insurance firm. The employee reportedly corresponded with Bank of America employees and was told to falsify loan numbers on documents to force Bank of America to foreclose on homeowners.'"

535 comments

  1. Well, now we know why by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess this explains why Bank of America's law firm was so willing to buy into HBgary and other's bullshit about being able to take down Anoynymous and Wikileaks.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Well, now we know why by afxgrin · · Score: 4, Informative

      And why they bought every single domain name using "Sucks" and "Blows" that involves Bank of America and all their executive management.

    2. Re:Well, now we know why by Grizzley9 · · Score: 3

      Bush, Obama & crew arrested a military private for the Diplomacy leaks. Wonder who they'll go after for the BofA leak?

      "Bush"? Really? It's only mid-morning on Monday. Also, it is against the law to divulge secret-rated info the private leaked. He should be arrested.

    3. Re:Well, now we know why by naasking · · Score: 2

      They should have bought everything with "crooks" in it too.

    4. Re:Well, now we know why by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      A: "Anybody except the bank executives who were running the show..."

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Well, now we know why by emagery · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would agree if he were releasing info that endangered ongoing operations (troop movements, missile deployment sites, etc, in the midst of a battle and to the enemy), but when he's whistleblowing on the criminal actions of his superiors, he must be protected. Every agency at EVERY level must be routinely audited for corrupting, and with 54% of our taxpayer money going to feed this military machine in a time of nation crippling deficits, they deserve scrutiny most of all.

    6. Re:Well, now we know why by maxume · · Score: 3, Informative

      The only sane way to decide whether Manning deserves protection as a whistle-blower is a trial.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:Well, now we know why by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would agree if he were releasing info that endangered ongoing operations (troop movements, missile deployment sites, etc, in the midst of a battle and to the enemy), but when he's whistleblowing on the criminal actions of his superiors, he must be protected. Every agency at EVERY level must be routinely audited for corrupting, and with 54% of our taxpayer money going to feed this military machine in a time of nation crippling deficits, they deserve scrutiny most of all.

      First - Manning wasn't in a position to make judgment on the suitability of classification. At that level, classified is classified. It is handled the same way no matter what is between the cover sheets.

      Secondly - what he uncovered was hardly "criminal actions of his superiors." He was a fool to believe that what he had was all that special and worth putting his own freedom at risk. But that's how being a whistleblower works. You don't get immunity just because you thought you were doing right. You put your self at risk to uncover something so heinous as to be worth that risk.

      Finally - the point still stands. BoA is not the US Military. Manning and some corporate risk analyst are not in the same situation. But it isn't surprising that someone would believe otherwise (whether the OP is believer or a troll).

    8. Re:Well, now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that Manning didn't know what he was releasing. He grabbed a batch of several hundred thousand documents, copied them, and sent them off to Wikileaks. No way did he actually sort through them in advance to make sure he was only releasing whistleblower-type docs and not stuff detailing operational stuff. In short, he was out to hurt the US and/or the military and was unbelievably reckless in how he chose to do it. So that whistleblower defense isn't going to fly, especially in a military court.

    9. Re:Well, now we know why by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Funny how Anonymous just left out the trailing "s" and went with bankofamericasuck.com.

      I assume that was intentional to ridicule their purchase efforts...

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    10. Re:Well, now we know why by zill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only sane way to decide whether Manning deserves protection as a whistle-blower is a fair trial.

      I really don't see how he can get that anymore.

    11. Re:Well, now we know why by maxume · · Score: 2

      Sure, it is a pickle. But there is nothing strange about a soldier who leaked thousands of classified documents being arrested, if Manning didn't understand that...

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    12. Re:Well, now we know why by ronocdh · · Score: 2

      An especially wise decision, considering the third-person plural conjugation is actually more acceptable to most speakers of American English. Think about it: you wouldn't say "it sucks" when referring to the fraud committed by Bank of America—you'd say they suck, because they are humans and they suck.

      www.bankofamericasuck.com!

    13. Re:Well, now we know why by tkprit · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Maybe not, but I sure hope the case is thrown out due to the abuse and torture he is suffering while being held at Quantico; conditions that by the Gevena Act (if he were a POW) would be considered torture. There's no way he could be fit to stand trial after being abused constantly for months. He can't get a fair trial.

    14. Re:Well, now we know why by balbus000 · · Score: 1

      Or you can think of it in the noun form. Bank of America is full of suck.

    15. Re:Well, now we know why by mhelander · · Score: 2

      "You put your self at risk to uncover something so heinous as to be worth that risk"

      So if we lower the risk maybe we get to know about more than the absolutely most heinous corruption.

    16. Re:Well, now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not, but I sure hope the case is thrown out due to the abuse and torture he is suffering while being held at Quantico; conditions that by the Gevena Act (if he were a POW) would be considered torture. There's no way he could be fit to stand trial after being abused constantly for months. He can't get a fair trial.

      They're not going to let Manning walk on an espionage charge just because he *might* have been mistreated during being held over for trial--a fact that the defense would have to establish. And even if they prove it, no judge is going to say, "Terribly sorry how you were treated in the brig...bad, bad MPs! I'll just dismiss all the espionage charges and send you home." Doesn't work that way. In any legal system, abuse of the accused during pre-trial confinement is a separate crime to be addressed; it's never considered as a mitigating factor for the original crime.

      So, at best, what will happen is that there will be a pre-trial motion by the defense alleging what you claim--that abusive detainment procedures have left Manning unfit to stand trial. If the judge rules in Manning's favor on that, then the officers who mistreated him will get their own courts martial proceeding while Manning gets treated in a psychiatric facility until he's ruled fit to stand trial for espionage.

    17. Re:Well, now we know why by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1, Troll

      Being imprisoned in Quantico is torture now? I don't get this whole line of reasoning. Rendition and water boarding and many other techniques used under Rumsfeld et. al. were absolutely heinous and wrong, but this whole idea that every POW or prisoner of the military is somehow being tortured is just turning into a joke.

      Is there some reason you are making this claim, or are we just assuming that everyone the US holds in custody now considered a victim of torture?

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    18. Re:Well, now we know why by carpefishus · · Score: 0

      No abuse yet. He hasn't been beheaded.

      --
      Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
    19. Re:Well, now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are funny. You have no idea what evidense there is against him and what and when he did anything. You also have no idea what "absue" and "torture" he is going through while in prison.
      That being said...
      You have an interesting way of picking and choosing when and where to apply the concept of being fair and unbalanced. You gave two completely opposite view points in only two sentences.

    20. Re:Well, now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet the leaks ended up on www.bankofamericasuck.com. I wonder how much money they wasted on domains to try to prevent this.

    21. Re:Well, now we know why by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      So if we lower the risk maybe we get to know about more than the absolutely most heinous corruption.

      We also get a whole lot more noise from leaks leaked by other cranky disaffected soldiers that have absolutely nothing to do with exposing corruption. Not to mention the wealth of legitimately classified information that had no business being leaked in the first place.

    22. Re:Well, now we know why by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      There's some evidence of maltreatment. Though I don't that it qualifies as torture.

      For example, for a period of time he was on a suicide watch that required his guards to query him every 5 minutes to see if he was ok. AFAIK he has been ordered to keep his face and hands visible to his guards at all times. He's not allowed to exercise and has been kept in solitary confinement. Again probably not torture, but IMHO not appropriate treatment for a prisoner who has not yet been tried.

      For what it's worth I wish the Military would just get on with the trial. There's little doubt they will secure a conviction and we can finally move on. He clearly intentionally violated the UCMJ. As much as I dislike the way he's been treated I still don't grasp how people are calling for his release.

    23. Re:Well, now we know why by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      'This is Suck that we have gotten from Bank of America. It is not general Suck, it is Bank of America Suck.'

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    24. Re:Well, now we know why by mhelander · · Score: 1

      Yup, no use in pretending it wouldn't be a tradeoff.

    25. Re:Well, now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess they don't like to hire gays in the management positions, or they are preparing a significant announcement related to the sexual preferences of the management group.

    26. Re:Well, now we know why by Terrasque · · Score: 1

      I think someone should leak this url to them.. 503 errors are not cool, you know? Especially for someone who tries to cultivate an image of skillz and 1337 (and probably bunnies, too)

      --
      It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    27. Re:Well, now we know why by feepness · · Score: 1

      and with 54% of our taxpayer money going to feed this military machine in a time of nation crippling deficits,

      While I would be happy to see the number even smaller, current defense spending is less than 25% of the budget.

    28. Re:Well, now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why they bought every single domain name using "Sucks" and "Blows" that involves Bank of America and all their executive management.

      Not all of them. I can think of a few...

    29. Re:Well, now we know why by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I can deal with the noise. Can't deal with the corruption.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    30. Re:Well, now we know why by rk · · Score: 1

      You're both right, depending on the viewpoint. 54% is close to correct for what is considered the discretionary budget, which doesn't include many big blocks on the graphic you've shared that fade out if you click the "Hide Mandatory Spending" button.

    31. Re:Well, now we know why by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      How about the not-being-allowed-to-exercise, or wear clothes?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    32. Re:Well, now we know why by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I really haven't been following this story, so I wasn't aware of any maltreatment. From what I have found from a quick Google, your description does not appear to be entirely accurate (though even if it were, there is no way I would consider it "torture" - it leaves us without a word to describe techniques like nail-ripping, skin peeling, and testicle electrocution).

      Manning, who is being held in the brig at the Quantico Marine base in Virginia, has been confined to "maximum custody." He also has been subject to a "prevention of injury" order. The result is that he is kept in his cell 23 hours a day. According to his attorney, Manning is also denied sheets, forbidden to exercise in his cell and not allowed to sleep between 5 a.m. and 8 p.m.

      So he gets an hour of exercise a day, he just can't do more in his cell.

      Most recently, the attorney has alleged that Manning has been stripped naked at bedtime — the result, apparently, of Manning's sarcastic comment that if he wanted to commit suicide, he could use the elastic band in his underwear or his flip-flops. After requiring him to sleep naked for several days, the Pentagon says Manning now sleeps in "tear-proof garments."

      So he can wear clothes, but his guards figured out a way to retaliate when he gave them a hard time.

      I agree with P.J. Crowley that his treatment is "ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid." (Why on earth would he be dismissed for that!?!?) Still, not "torture".

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    33. Re:Well, now we know why by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Emotional torture is still torture. I learned that when I graduated from public school (beatings) to private school (humiliations -- physical contact was expulsion, and mommy and daddy paid).

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    34. Re:Well, now we know why by feepness · · Score: 1

      "Taxpayer dollars" fund more than discretionary spending.

    35. Re:Well, now we know why by Meski · · Score: 1

      they put the plural in the wrong place banksofamericasuck.com

  2. And... by MikeDirnt69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    .. nothing will happen.

    --
    Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
    1. Re:And... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Sadly, indeed : Whenever it is a large corporation doing something illegal they at most get a slap on the wrist and no one goes to jail, but whenever it is a single commoner you get thrown in so fast you'll leave skidmarks on the ground.

      Money == More important than human rights, privacy or even laws themselves.

    2. Re:And... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 0
      Obviously I haven't been able to see the leaks, but should something happen on the basis of a third party who provided emails that he claims were from BoA employees? How about we reserve action (and judgement) until the validity of the emails is actually verified?

      Ah, I forget. Forging email headers? Unpossible! She's a witch - burn her!

      Once the emails are verified (it's certainly well-possible that they are valid), I'd fully support legal action against BoA - but not before.

    3. Re:And... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Amen. The two words that will characterise this period of history will be "corruption" and "unaccountability". Western management has turned impunity--legal, financial, and personal--into a science.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    4. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no, something will happen. Less people will vote to show their discontent with how the politicians handle this scandal. It has been a hugely successful strategy in the past. I mean, look at how legislation is in virtual lock-step with people's opinion on, e.g., the Bush tax cuts and the public option. Also, the fact that people aren't protesting over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is immense pressure on the Obama administration to pull the troops home. The silence must be unbearable. I'm sure he's squirming in his seat as we speak. The same strategy is bound to work when they cut social security.

    5. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the emails can't be used, but this could put pressure on authorities to do a proper investigation. The emails certainly aren't the only evidence against BoA.
      These guys are so arrogant that any (honest) investigation is bound to come up with lots of evidence of wrong doing.

    6. Re:And... by heptapod · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of course nothing will happen. These leaked Bank of America emails were released during the Japanese earthquake/tsunami/nuclear crisis. GREAT FUCKING JOB THERE, CHIEF!!! It shows they're a bunch of amateurs who know nothing about timing so this reaches the broadest audience. Slashdot, reddit, and the rest will get up in arms but the people who need to know, i.e. mom & pop and that mythical linux using grandma, won't have it show up as a blip on their radar because of their reliance upon mainstream media to feed them.

    7. Re:And... by Joreallean · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Although the money helps this isn't about money... It's about the fact that these "people" are doing actions of an individual under the name of a corporation. The difference in your example between your corporation vs commoner is that one is an individual. The government can certainly throw the book at a corporation, but what happens? It either gets a bad reputation and loses the market for a while or they just dissolve it and start something new under a new name. There is no personal responsibility for any of the actions of a corporation and therefore there is absolutely no accountability for their actions. As long as we continue to treat a corporation as the "person" responsible for its actions and not the actual people in charge will they be able to do whatever they want with little to no consequences. These people have just learn to shield their own malfeasance under the guise of a legal corporation. I'm by no means saying that all corporations are like this, but at some point it seems they stop caring about the work they are doing and start caring about the state of the company.

    8. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      but should something happen on the basis of a third party who provided emails that he claims were from BoA employees?

      Hmmm.... so let's wait until that third party sleeps naked in Quantico... then we'll now for sure the emails are good.

    9. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, indeed : Whenever it is a large corporation doing something illegal they at most get a slap on the wrist and no one goes to jail, but whenever it is a single commoner you get thrown in so fast you'll leave skidmarks on the ground.

      Money == More important than human rights, privacy or even laws themselves.

      First you have to assume they're doing something illegal. Now, exactly what was so supposedly illegal in those leaks?

    10. Re:And... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Soap.
      Ballot.
      Jury.
      Ammo.

      I would reckon that you're somewhere between 2 and 3 on that list at the moment. Let's hope that's where it ends.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    11. Re:And... by DrStrange66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bank of America is too big to fail and is therefore too big to go after.

    12. Re:And... by SaroDarksbane · · Score: 0

      The corporate liability shield does not (in theory) protect you if you knowingly perform illegal actions. If you, for example, catch a CEO on tape telling his subordinate to dump toxic waste in a nature preserve, you can prosecute him as an individual. Likewise, if what BoA is doing is against the law, and they can prove in court which BoA employee was telling people to do it, that person can prosecuted.

    13. Re:And... by royallthefourth · · Score: 1

      Don't just blame the west; Deng Xiaoping created the conditions for a similar "business culture" to emerge in China. Neoliberalism will create new marketplaces until it eviscerates itself.

    14. Re:And... by s4m7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Corporations have neither bodies to be punished, nor souls to be condemned, they therefore do as they like." - Edward Thurlow, often attributed to Andrew Jackson

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    15. Re:And... by SirWhoopass · · Score: 2

      The two words that will characterise this period of history will be "corruption" and "unaccountability".

      As opposed to when? Industrial-era robber barons? Monarchies and imperial charters? The medieval Catholic Church?

      "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Winston Churchill

    16. Re:And... by kelemvor4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I disagree. While I agree with the general theme that the system is hopelessly corrupt, I disagree that this is what will mark this period in history. I largely believe that this level of corruption has existed for almost as long as humans have lived in "civilized" societies. What will mark this period in history is that it is so well documented. Never before has every nuance of humanity been so well documented. In fact, there's so many documented about humanity right now I don't believe it will be possible for a historian 400 years from now to read about the 1900's completely even if he spends his whole life trying to do it. Even communications intended by the sender to be temporary such as the emails referenced above can be perfectly reproduced thousands of times for years. In the past, there would have been no record of this type of corruption since the communications would have been largely face to face (out of technical necessity if for no other reason).

    17. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US doesn't have a democracy. It has a plutocracy. These huge financial firms used captured regulators, insiders, and like-minded ideologues to create an environment in which, once again, the rich could further enrich themselves upon the backs of the middle and lower-class. While, as you say, this has always been the case, at least to some degree, the last three decades have seen a massive concentration of wealth and power in a select elite. The recent banking fiasco is simply the pinnacle of that trend, resulting in massive unemployment and loss of homes, pensions, and what little other wealth the non-rich have while the rich continue to get richer and richer, while absorbing none of the consequences of their actions.

      But, I think to future historians, the most baffling thing of all will be how so many of the middle and lower class cheered on deregulation, defended the rich, decried attempts to correct this wealth and power imbalance as "class warfare", thus actively working against their own self-interests.

    18. Re:And... by moj0joj0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no personal responsibility for any of the actions of a corporation and therefore there is absolutely no accountability for their actions.

      Corporations may not be individuals, but they are run by a board of directors that is ultimately responsible for the actions of the company. If individual wrongdoers within the corporate 'body' are not handed over to the authorities, then the board would be held responsible. If this were the case, you'd see a lot less evil in the business world. If generals are held responsible for the actions of their troops during wartime, then surely we can hold the leadership of a corporation responsible for the actions of the corporation. Maybe not, but it makes me feel better to think so.

    19. Re:And... by KhabaLox · · Score: 2

      Now, exactly what was so supposedly illegal in those leaks?

      From the summary:
      " The employee reportedly corresponded with Bank of America employees and was told to falsify loan numbers on documents to force Bank of America to foreclose on homeowners."

      Now, if falsifying financial documents to get the bank to foreclose on a home isn't illegal, it certainly should be. And coercing, or conspiring to do the same would be in the same boat.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    20. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or it shows that Bank of America PR staffers know exactly how to contain a potential disaster. By releasing their own information as Anonymous during a time where it is guaranteed to be buried under far more pressing news stories.

    21. Re:And... by zill · · Score: 1, Informative

      You've got it the other way around, pal. BoA knew the leak was coming so they countered with DDOS attacks. But since it wasn't enough they had to drop nuclear depth charges down the fault lines.

    22. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Umm, did you forget about Enron? Ken Lay and Jeffery Skilling? Although Lay died before trial, Mr. Skilling is in jail. Global Crossing comes to mind as another whose executive ended up in jail.

    23. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for how a corporation is an embodiment (what the word means, after all) that can indeed be punished, and of course except how we don't have souls either, that's a really great observation!

    24. Re:And... by mhelander · · Score: 2

      Too big to file?

    25. Re:And... by mhelander · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've heard it claimed it is because just like we all think we are better than average drivers, everyone in the US think they're one day going to become rich.

    26. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or... if you dig deeper - maybe this is *exactly* what they wanted. Who is to say that BofA didn't leak them themselves through Anonymous, knowing that Wikileaks had it, and that a dump of everything in the middle of a disaster would guarantee the minimal amount of exposure for them. After all Wikileaks is nothing if not good at milking the mainstream media for every ounce of coverage without actually releasing anything. If I was the PR guy at BofA this is what I would do.

    27. Re:And... by carpefishus · · Score: 2

      It doesn't work that way. While I was plant manager for a chemical plant I was known as the "Designated Felon."

      --
      Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
    28. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup, I've heard that, too. In addition, many people have a remarkably inflated view of their wealth, and the overall wealth distribution in the US. Here's an interesting graph on the topic:

      http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/09/poor-people-are-much-poorer-than-you-think/

      People massively underestimate just how much wealth is concentrated in the top few percent of earners.

      In addition to this, while for the life of me I can't find the original citation, I recall a recent report that indicates that people tend to view themselves as being richer than they are. ie, they believe they're in a higher quintile than they are.

      So if you believe more people are "rich" than actually are, and that you, yourself, are richer than is the reality, then naturally you'll rail against "class warfare" versus the rich, believe you believe you, and many of your fellow citizens, will be targeted.

    29. Re:And... by jimicus · · Score: 2

      Oh, the individual wrongdoers will be handed over to the authorities.

      But I guarantee you the people at the top who oversaw the lot won't be among those handed over. The people handed over will be the salesmen and their managers at the bottom end of the organisation. It's entirely possible that top executives communicated something along the lines of "We must do whatever is necessary to achieve our goals" but they won't have said "and if that means breaking the law, so be it". Or at least, not in writing.

      It's a somewhat curious quirk of society that it is possible to set up an organisation with little or no attempt to ensure that everything is done above board or to reign in dubious practices and while the organisation as a whole may catch some grief, those who set it up and ran it will - in most cases - come to little grief.

    30. Re:And... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Bank of America is too big to fail and is therefore too big to go after.

      The CEO and board of directors certainly aren't.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    31. Re:And... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's what happens when you live in a Fascist country: Corporations are more important than citizens.

    32. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And thats why I can't bring myself to call Julian Assange a glory hog. As much attention as he takes away from the Wikileaks, he gets Wikileaks far more attention in return.

    33. Re:And... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I think that quote sums it up pretty well. Democracy might suck, but nobody has come up with a better alternative. If a significant portion of the population is willing to bend over for corporate interests and fights any effort at reform, there's really only so much you can do.

      But seriously, that blame the victim bullshit from conservatives is a large part of why this keeps happening.

    34. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very well explained! Thank you! I surely wish their could be a new rule to prevent abuse of corporations and their ability to hide behind anonymity. Perhaps we could initiate legislation that the acting CEO personally pay any fines, penalties or serve jail time for abuses committed under his watch? What does everybody think about that?

    35. Re:And... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1, Insightful

      decried attempts to correct this wealth and power imbalance as "class warfare", thus actively working against their own self-interests.

      Maybe they just don't like the methods suggested, namely an increase in the power of government to confiscate greater wealth from private hands. Maybe if their paycheck comes from one of those targets, they don't see it in their self-interest to be biting those hands, especially when only private interests can actually create wealth, while governments simply use it up.

      Besides, income taxes do little other than control inflation, since the government can print and distribute fiat money all they want. If you could trust everyone to do it, you could just have everyone (that is, the less than 50% that actually contribute via income tax) just take the taxes they owe out in the back yard and burn it up. It would have exactly the same effect.

      How about this? If we decide that we are so jealous of some one else's success, we should get together to hire some goons to go to their house, armed to the teeth, and demand they give up a vast portion of it. Then the goons can take their cut and distribute the rest to us poor folk. ... Oh, wait...

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    36. Re:And... by SirWhoopass · · Score: 1

      I think to future historians, the most baffling thing of all will be how so many of the middle and lower class cheered on deregulation, defended the rich

      Perhaps this is because the middle class gets tied in to the "rich" when it comes to taxes and regulation. In my state the governor wants to create the highest tax bracket in the nation on the "rich". Which he defines as $80k salary per year.

      While someone at level is living comfortably, they are not flying around in private jets and relaxing on their yacht. Many are self-employed and have no guarantee that next year won't see their business collapse.

      But that is the cut off. The local hardware store owner is put in the same group with Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. And then people act surprised when a large number of voters aren't in favor of "taxing the rich".

    37. Re:And... by Appolonius+of+Perge · · Score: 1

      My grandmother _does_ use Linux, you insensitive clod!

    38. Re:And... by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      There certainly are cases where the "corporate shield" is pierced and indivuduals are prosecured. Most of the time this happens when the corporation is so deeply embedded in the crime that it becomes apparent that the reason the corporation exists is to shield the people behind it. This happens most often in smaller corporations - I don't know of any case where a large publicly held corporation was pierced in this manner, mostly I would say because it has never been the case that such a corporation existed solely to shield the participants.

    39. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      namely an increase in the power of government to confiscate greater wealth from private hands

      Care to elaborate? Last I checked, tax increases have nothing to do with "[increasing]... the power of government".

      especially when only private interests can actually create wealth

      Yeah, tell that to BoA or Goldman Sachs. They create nothing, and have destroyed the lives of millions. The idea that the rich are solely responsible for "creating" anything in the US is an absurd fantasy. Are those who excel important? Yes. Do top top 1% of Americans deserve 50% of the wealth? Fuck no.

      Besides, income taxes do little other than control inflation

      What the fuck does that have to do with wealth inequality?

      How about this? If we decide that we are so jealous of some one else's success

      CLASS WARFARE! CLASS WARFARE!

      Christ, you couldn't be a better posterchild for the giant American conservative delusion if you tried. Honestly, you sound like a fucking parody. It's really quite remarkable.

    40. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too Big... Too Fail

    41. Re:And... by Shotgun · · Score: 2

      As opposed to the victim is blameless bullshit from the Democrats? Really?

      "The banker didn't tell me that there would be a balloon payment at the end of my 5-year adjustable rate. I took out a loan that I didn't understand. I'm a VICTIM!!"

      "Real-estate ALWAYS goes up in value. Nobody told me this was a bubble, even though prices were doubling every few years. I'm a VICTIM!!"

      "I was just trying to cash in on the 30% returns of these financial products that I didn't understand AT ALL! I'm a VICTIM!!"

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    42. Re:And... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      If you think that people aren't already protesting, you aren't paying attention. It is, however, true that the mass media no longer cover political demonstrations. Do you really think that's happenstance?

      The owners of the mass media today are no longer those who owned the mass media in the 1960's-80's. Even most of the local newspapers have been bought up by chains. Publishing houses are owned by conglomerates who set policy. (Editors don't cover what they're told not to cover, or they don't stay editors.) Etc. Hollywood isn't the only thing that's been centralizing.

      Today we probably have less populist mass media coverage than in the 1930's. And a far larger population. So now we are nearly totally dependent on web-pages, e-mails, and other things that are subject to centralized control. (The exact antithesis of what the net was supposed to be.)

      It's time to start working hard on mesh networks, and other things that aren't subject to being controlled centrally. Even now it will be quite difficult to create such things legally. Extremely low powered systems, however, are probably ok. On certain wave-lengths.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    43. Re:And... by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      The board of directors of most corporations do not have any real responsibility for line-execution of anything. They are there as an advisory capacity only. Let's say you have a badly-run corporation and the stock price plummets. The shareholders aren't able to sue the board of directors as they really only advised. The CEO and COO are the ones with line-execution responsibility for either following the advice of the board of directors or for doing whatever the heck is needed, perhaps in direct contravention to some really bad advice from the board.

      So the CEO and/or COO get sued and probably other C-level executives because they weren't doing their job.

      If the board of directors had any actual responsibility you would find it a very difficult position to fill. Most smaller corporations have an uncompensated board. Even a lot of large corporations have uncompensated board members that are there because it is a prestigious role. If there was any actual responsibility the board wouldn't be there uncompensated and it would be a whole lot different job than it is.

    44. Re:And... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Which is why they should find anyone who "should" have known about it and charge them with conspiracy to commit a crime under RICO. Corporations are like the mob, but because they aren't Italian, they can steal and kill with impunity.

    45. Re:And... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Wow. You are an idiot. Emails don't "prove" anything alone. You won't be able to forge a single email that has some 3rd party committing a crime, anonymously forward that to the DA and expect a conviction.

      Emails are, in fact, valid evidence. One piece of a larger puzzle put together to determine the "truth" as the court sees it. And in that context, emails are very important. Your stance is essentially "if someone releases emails, we should assume the opposite until proven otherwise" or such. Why not just take them as face value? If it bothers you so much, just add in your mind "If these emails are true ..." to the beginning of every post.

      From my experience with the finance sector (and BoA specifically), I would think they were true. After all, you know what caused the financial crisis, right? It was people at places (including BoA) committing fraud by lying about the risk of "securities" when bundling them in a manner that made it impractical for anyone to every be able to know their fraud. And no one would have figured it out if all of them weren't breaking the law in the exact same manner.

    46. Re:And... by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They are accountable in China, just not to western rules. Every businessman is committing a capital offense in China today. If they aren't, then they aren't a good businessman. So why are only a few executed, and only in high-profile cases (like lead in toys and such)? Because the actual enforcement of the rules is "don't cause loss of face to Chinese business as a whole." But if you are the head of a company that is caught doing something as bad as this (fraud to capitalize on a recession you actually helped cause), in China, even if the CEO had nothing to do with this actual fraud, he'd be executed.

    47. Re:And... by DavidTC · · Score: 2

      Perhaps you should learn how tax brackets work. Someone making $80,000 is not paying any more taxes.

      A hypothetical person making $100,000 would be paying a slightly higher tax percent on $20,000 dollars.

      I have no idea what state you're talking about, but let's assume that the top bracket pays 15%, instead of 10% lower brackets pay. That would mean, under the law you are speaking of, someone who made $100,000 would pay an extra 5% on the $20,000, which is $1000.

      Yeah, how dare we add $0 to the tax burden of someone making $80,000, and $1000 to the tax burden of someone making $100,000? How dare we take another 1% of their money in taxes to try to keep everything functioning in a recession! That's crazy!

      People like you, who can't understand basic math, and the media that refuses to explain tax differences using examples, and instead yammers about 'higher taxes on people making $80,000', are the reason this country and 49 states are out of money.

      Also, your example is retarded in an completely different way. I'm sure your 'hardware store owner' was part of the false claim that 'small business owners have a lot of money go through their hands but don't keep much of it, but have to pay income tax on it'.

      That claim is idiotic, no small business owner who had that much money going through their hands would have a business structured that was in the first place. That is an exceedingly stupid way to operate a business that is larger than 'selling knickknacks on the side of the road'.

      Anyone who has a business structured that way who makes enough money to live off of is already paying an astonishing amount of unneeded taxes, up to three times as much taxes as they would pay if they'd put their business under the correct part of the tax code! If they did that, if they actually filed some simple paperwork and made their business an actual separate entity from themselves, 'income tax' would have no bearing on anything except money they take home, instead of it being all money their business takes in.

      And I'm astonished that somehow small business owners, who at least have the assets of their business to sell off when it collapses, somehow need the money more than, I dunno, laid off workers. I guess in your universe people can't get laid off 'next year'.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    48. Re:And... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      Yeah, tell that to BoA or Goldman Sachs. They create nothing, and have destroyed the lives of millions. The idea that the rich are solely responsible for "creating" anything in the US is an absurd fantasy. Are those who excel important? Yes. Do top top 1% of Americans deserve 50% of the wealth? Fuck no.

      BoA and Goldman Sachs should have been allowed to fail. What happened instead? The government (which you want to give more money = more power) bailed them out to the detriment of everyone else. Talk about a solution being worse than the problem. Then because of these few dozen (scores? hundreds? whatever) of bad actors, you want to punish about 3.5 million people, most of whom had nothing to do with it. Those 3.5 million people do have a net worth that amounts to somewhere between 40 and 45% of the country's wealth - they also contribute about 40% of the total annual revenues of the federal government, so it's a bit of a trade-off.

      It is the private sector that is responsible for creating all the wealth in the country. Government creates exactly none of it.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    49. Re:And... by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Nothing is too big to fail, this includes nations and the planet. However if we decide that a corporation or a government is really too big to fail, then it's really too big to exist

    50. Re:And... by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      To borrow from Nixon: When the rulers do it, that means that it is not illegal.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    51. Re:And... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2
      Feel better having called me an idiot? Good, glad to hear it. I know I always have better luck in getting my point across when I call people names.

      Now that this is out of the way, let's review my post.

      What I said was that if someone can validate that those emails are legitimate, then YES, investigate. But don't put someone (whether it's a billion dollar company or a single-owner corner store) to the expense of having to defend themselves without more evidence than a single chain of unauthenticated emails.

      Note that nowhere in my post did I claim them to be invalid as evidence.

    52. Re:And... by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      As opposed to the victim is blameless bullshit from the Democrats? Really?

      "The banker didn't tell me that there would be a balloon payment at the end of my 5-year adjustable rate. I took out a loan that I didn't understand. I'm a VICTIM!!"

      "Real-estate ALWAYS goes up in value. Nobody told me this was a bubble, even though prices were doubling every few years. I'm a VICTIM!!"

      "I was just trying to cash in on the 30% returns of these financial products that I didn't understand AT ALL! I'm a VICTIM!!"

      I dunno man, I think the blame is still about 80/20. Yes, those people who failed to pay their loans are often irresponsible, but it is the banker's responsibility to accurately assess risk. Expecting a dropout earning $16k/year to pay back a $400k home loan is on par with expecting your dog to bring you a steak tomorrow if you give it a hot dog today.

    53. Re:And... by number11 · · Score: 2

      The corporate liability shield does not (in theory) protect you if you knowingly perform illegal actions.

      In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.

      Suppose you were a hacker who rootkitted a million computers. We all know that would fall under computer crime statutes.

      Now suppose your name is Sony.

      Rule of law. All equal before the law. Feh. If you're employed by the government, it doesn't apply to you. If you're a large corporation, it rarely applies to you. At least, in the USA (doesn't seem like it's much different anywhere else). It's a nice concept, would be great to see some country try it.

    54. Re:And... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Oh something will happen. The US will punish every citizen for this act of terrorism by taking away even more rights from its citizens.

    55. Re:And... by number11 · · Score: 1

      If generals are held responsible for the actions of their troops during wartime, then surely we can hold the leadership of a corporation responsible for the actions of the corporation.

      That's only if they're on a side that got conquered. No generals were held responsible for My Lai (hell, not even the gunmen who committed the crimes were held responsible.. their lowest-ranking officers did get a slap on the wrist).

      And except for war, even the top dogs are usually exempt from punishment. Sometimes they'll sacrifice a subordinate.

    56. Re:And... by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      "The banker didn't tell me that there would be a balloon payment at the end of my 5-year adjustable rate. I took out a loan that I didn't understand. I'm a VICTIM!!"

      Literally true in several cases that I've heard of. Banks were lying to consumers or glossing over the details in violation of the fair lending act. Not everyone was a victim, but many were.

      "Real-estate ALWAYS goes up in value. Nobody told me this was a bubble, even though prices were doubling every few years. I'm a VICTIM!!"

      The U.S. GDP has doubled every 10 to 15 years. When is growth "too fast" and defined as a bubble?

      "I was just trying to cash in on the 30% returns of these financial products that I didn't understand AT ALL! I'm a VICTIM!!"

      You mean the kind of financial instruments that Goldman-Sachs sold short even as they promoted them to investors? Or maybe the ones Bernie Madoff was offering?

    57. Re:And... by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      only private interests can actually create wealth

      This assertion is so mind-bogglingly stupid that I can't believe anyone would actually make it, but then I've heard enough libertarians speak to know that that is sadly not the case.

      Let's see. Infrastructure. Education systems. Everything we've gotten from NASA research. The Internet.

      Do I really need to go on? Or do none of those count as "wealth"? Or, do all of those somehow count as "created by private interests"?

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    58. Re:And... by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you've pretty much nailed the Democrats' position. At least, the position as it gets explained by people who have no fucking clue what it is, and let themselves be mislead by Fox News and other bullshit talking heads.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    59. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I guess next time they are scheduling the logistics for a major media blitz, they should check the calendar to make sure that no earthquakes, tornadoes, or landslides are expected.

      er?

    60. Re:And... by rmckeethen · · Score: 1

      Amen, brother. This is what I've been saying for years. Blaming the corporate name and logo for bad business behavior is both pointless and counterproductive. It's like the police fingering my famous twin brother for a crime I committed simply because my twin's name is well-known while mine is not. Corporations can't commit crimes -- the people making the decisions for those corporations are the ones we need to hold accountable. As long as we let crooks and swindlers hide behind the fiction of corporate personhood, the real people who actually commit these crimes are never going to see any incentive to stop fleecing the public.

    61. Re:And... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      Yes, Jeremy, those things do not count as wealth creation. What you are talking about is infrastructure. In many cases, it makes sense for government to take on the job of creating infrastructure, and while they have completely screwed it up, public support for educating populations that cannot afford education is a benefit to society as a whole.

      So those thinks support wealth creation, but they do not represent wealth creation. When the highway is complete, the money taken from citizens has not provided additional wealth, it has simply turned into a highway. Assuming the public education system actually worked, you simply have a citizen ready for a productive job, but the citizen will create the wealth for himself. And the money to do it was taken out of the economy first.

      None of those things will fill a silo with grain, allow a family to buy a bigger house, or allow a manufacturer to expand his production facility. Now, you could argue that the manufacturer now has roads to transport his goods, but he could have done that with the money taken from him and other productive members of society anyway - and still have the road.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    62. Re:And... by Stick32 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Corporation n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

    63. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      BoA and Goldman Sachs should have been allowed to fail.

      And if they had, due to their interconnections with the rest of the financial system, and the economy as a whole, all hell would've broken loose. You may choose to ignore that reality (libertarians are very good at that sort of thing), but the politicians couldn't.

      Of course, proper regulation (among other things) would've helped avoid that situation, but of course, your good buddy Alan Greenspan disagreed with that approach, so econopocalypse it is!

      It is the private sector that is responsible for creating all the wealth in the country. Government creates exactly none of it.

      a) Bullshit. b) That gives them a license to fuck everyone else to enrich themselves? Please.

      But, you go defending your rich buddies. Your delusions have lead to the greatest wage disparity since the great depression, a weak economy, high unemployement, poor healthcare coverage... the list goes on and on. But I guess that's better than being "socialist" or "facist" or whatever the new perjorative is for the left...

    64. Re:And... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      One mans "Blame the Victim" is another mans "personal responsibility"

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    65. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "mythical linux using grandma"

      O.o

      why, I never...

    66. Re:And... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 0

      People massively underestimate just how much wealth is concentrated in the top few percent of earners.

      Just as people massively underestimate just how much of the tax burden falls on that same few percent. Were you aware that about 40% of Americans currently pay no net Federal income tax at all?

      Dividing the country into a nation of stakeholders and leeches is no way to improve things. We need to focus more on the health of the middle class, not the 'rich' or the 'poor.' Economics is not a zero-sum game, regardless of what the Ivy League programs are teaching kids these days.

    67. Re:And... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      except when you have government guarantees to buy bad loans then why bother making sure they can pay it back. Just broker the deal then pass it on.

      There is no way for a business plan of, "lets loan money to people that can't afford to pay it back" can ever get anywhere in a free market.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    68. Re:And... by Aquitaine · · Score: 1

      GDP and housing prices are completely different things. GDP is basically population times economic output. Both of those things are factors in the housing market, certainly, but to pretend that nobody knew we were in a housing bubble is ludicrous.

      It's the bank's job to be honest with you about the deal you're signing. If they tell you something that is patently not true (as we know happened in some cases) then they need to be busted. But it is not the bank's job to advocate on your behalf. The bank issuing you a mortgage is not your financial adviser.

      In most markets, there is a built-in defense against this kind of thing, because your basic bank is only going to lend money to somebody it thinks can repay the loan. But when society (via the government) decides that it is going to let the banks off the hook for these mortgages in the name of helping out people who otherwise can't afford houses, all of a sudden the bank gets all the reward and a lot less of the risk. To a small extent, I think we could have done this without screwing up the system too badly -- there's an NY Times interview with Clinton's housing director where he basically says that home ownership was around 45-50% and Congress/Clinton wanted that number to go up, because people who owned their home were happier, lived stable lives, etc. So we have:

      - The market decides that, with what houses cost in the mid-90s (when most of this got going), 45-50% of people can afford to buy a house; the rest rent, or are homeless.
      - Gov't gets involved and pushes that number up to 50-55% with initial success. It makes sense if you think about it, even for a conservative grump like me: there is one group of people who can afford a house and one group of people who definitely can't, but there is a gray area where people might be able to afford one but banks are unwilling to take the risk in loaning them money, driving up their interest rate and effectively pricing them out of home ownership. Seems like a win-win to help these people out, right?
      - Gov't realizes this is a wildly popular thing to do and decides it ought to push the ownership rate toward 70%. Some people at some banks go 'this will never work' but too many higher-ups at too many banks see the money to be had and decide, hey, this is what government wants, who are we to stop them?

      I know you were referring to the genuine criminals (sleazy mortgage brokers, banks who outright falsified paperwork, etc) but the number of genuine bad actors versus the number of foreclosures doesn't add up. Most people were not defrauded or lied to. Most people bought houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have but they were being encouraged to do it by everyone else involved in the process -- especially the people whose job it had been to put on the brakes. Trying to figure out exactly how much blame belongs with the banks and how much belongs with the government is probably a futile exercise because the government doesn't want people thinking about its role in the process and so doesn't have much interest in going after the banks.

      So what's the lesson here? Seems to me that 'a small government program with firm boundaries can do a heck of a lot of good, but if you let it grow too big, it will eff everything up.'

    69. Re:And... by SirWhoopass · · Score: 1

      Feel better now that you had your little tantrum?

      I understand perfectly well how income tax works in the US. I did not say that progressive income tax brackets were the reason any state was out of money. I also never suggested that a business owner would be taxed on gross income.

      My point was that tax brackets stop rather abruptly. That small business owner who nets $80k per year isn't necessarily a whole lot better off than his employees, particularly when you factor in the employer share of social security, medicare, and unemployment that he must pay personally. Yet he is lumped in with multimillionaires because there are no higher tax brackets. Even at the federal level things max out at $373k. There isn't a $500k or $1M bracket. And then some people are shocked when there is not overwhelming support to "tax the rich".

    70. Re:And... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Jobs mean employees that pay taxes. It also means that a President worrying about jobs and economic growth has to focus on what promotes both. A corporation provides jobs. If a corporation does bad deeds you can't jail it (or punish it too much) because those jobs, that economic growth, and that shareholder value depend on that corporation.

      This is the same logic that the MPAA and the RIAA are scamming President Obama with in an attempt to use the downturn in the economy and job's loss to create a protected segment for themselves. They have convinced President Obama that he has to act on jobs and this is the only way to do it--to protect certain businesses. Never before in the history of our country has our government so bent over backwards to protect a segment of business.

      Two problems here. 1) This won't accomplish what the MPAA and RIAA claim, and 2) it will give them a position of protection far beyond the downturn in the economy, thus providing them an unprecedented seat of power to influence further and to punish those they disparage.

      The President's Administration and his Justice Department won't punish the corporations because he can't afford to punish them.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    71. Re:And... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      So those thinks support wealth creation, but they do not represent wealth creation. When the highway is complete, the money taken from citizens has not provided additional wealth, it has simply turned into a highway

      What do you think wealth creation is, other than turning some amount of resources into goods worth more than that. Yes, the Internet and GPS increased the wealth of the world. So did building a highway, assuming it was worth more than what was paid for it.

      None of those things will fill a silo with grain, allow a family to buy a bigger house, or allow a manufacturer to expand his production facility.

      And that's actually retarded. For instance, a highway system allows someone to live further from a city and keep the commute at max_time_for_commute. That means that the amount of land people can live on increases. Which directly translates to bigger parcels of land for the same cost, which again directly into bigger houses for the same cost.

      Similar land costs apply to increasing production capacity.

      But you're right. Technological innovation and infrastructure don't directly lead to increased agricultural yields. That's at least one level of indirection away.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    72. Re:And... by kramulous · · Score: 1

      First step I'd like to see is accountability for incorrect statements. Very stiff monetary penalties for every incorrect figure or statement.

      In the half hour I've been watching morning news (Australia) I have seen:
      Chernobyl has killed tens of thousands of people
      Japanese reactors are billowing plumes of highly radioactive smoke into the atmosphere

      --
      .
    73. Re:And... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      It should be that, if the government bails out a corporation, because it is felt that it was too big to fail, the corporation should be required by law to break up into smaller parts so as not to be to big to fail. No corporation that asks for help should be allowed to exist in that manner and partake of government assistance.

      But alas it seems, corporation is government.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    74. Re:And... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      As opposed to the victim is blameless bullshit from the Democrats? Really? "The banker didn't tell me that there would be a balloon payment at the end of my 5-year adjustable rate. I took out a loan that I didn't understand. I'm a VICTIM!!" "Real-estate ALWAYS goes up in value. Nobody told me this was a bubble, even though prices were doubling every few years. I'm a VICTIM!!" "I was just trying to cash in on the 30% returns of these financial products that I didn't understand AT ALL! I'm a VICTIM!!"

      Yeah, none of those examples tanked the economy or hurt me. The aggregate did. But the people who were supposed to measure the overall volatility and risk of the those loans failed. People should lose their homes, and the bankers should be held accountable by losing their jobs and/or bonus. Hell, I can see rolling-back past bonuses as well.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    75. Re:And... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 0

      And if they had, due to their interconnections with the rest of the financial system, and the economy as a whole, all hell would've broken loose. You may choose to ignore that reality (libertarians are very good at that sort of thing), but the politicians couldn't.

      Pure statist bullshit. What, you think there wasn't enough money lying around in private hands willing to pick up those assets at fire sale prices? I beg to differ. What we got instead was Larry and Richard propping up Bernie and waving his arm going "Hi, everybody - see, everything's fine, just keep partying!" What's stunning is people like you buying into this bullshit and ignoring how Bernie never seems to actually say anything himself and not even noticing the stench.

      Of course, proper regulation (among other things) would've helped avoid that situation, but of course, your good buddy Alan Greenspan disagreed with that approach, so econopocalypse it is!

      "If only we could have cracked a few more skulls everything would have been fine!" Sure, that's a great attitude. And fuck Greenspan. That court jester is at least as complicit as anyone else in causing the whole bubble and meltdown in the first place, as well as supporting the crazy ideas that keep rolling into more bubbles and monetary fakery. Why would you criticize him since he totally supports your position.

      The rest of your rant isn't even worthy of a response. I don't have any "rich buddies" and I'm certainly not supporting the criminal bastards at the top of the system that are screwing everybody. All you want to do is tear down the 3 - 7 million people in the country that actually have enough power to oppose the tyrants. Meanwhile you want to supply even more power to the gamesters at the top, as if there was something different between those at the top of the financial institutions and at the top of the Federal government, rather than facing the truth that they are the same people (and swapping positions all the time between one and the other).

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    76. Re:And... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      It's the "republic" part that causes this and defeats democracy itself.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    77. Re:And... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      What you are saying is "don't bother to revolt" because that's the way it has always been. It's nothing new. Move on.

      No disrespect intended.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    78. Re:And... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      I have never used BofA. But I know their influence. They are massive and everywhere. My niece worked there for a while. She said it was a horrible place.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    79. Re:And... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You indicated that we should "reserve judgment."

      The incidences of people forging emails in order to discredit someone is very small. Are emails easy to forge? Yup. But people don't. So reserving judgment on the very low chance that they are indeed forged is like stating that DNA evidence is useless because it's only 99.97% accurate.

      Your advice is stupid. Your stance is wrong. And indicating that an investigation should not be launched until the emails are authenticated is what makes you an idiot. Your follow up post just indicates you are the special kind that is and thinks very strongly that they are not, and that those that point out such problems are the ones with the problems themselves. But that's wrong too. Emails indicating fraud should be sufficient to open an investigation. If they were faked, then the investigation will turn to one of fraud against the person that crafted the emails. Either way, there is no way for those emails (if they contain what is reported here that they do contain, which I can't verify as the site is down and if it wasn't I wouldn't have the time to read through anyway) to exist without someone having committed a fraud. A crime was committed. We have 100% proof of that. Now, why, again, are you against investigating fraud when we have proof of a fraud?

    80. Re:And... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      I've heard it claimed it is because just like we all think we are better than average drivers, everyone in the US think they're one day going to become rich.

      I went to the government office for name changing, and am now Rick. Dammit!

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    81. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and the best part, the best thing we could hope for, the most satisfying result of a bogus leak, would be if it turned out that Bank of America WASN'T the big company Wikileaks had all this inside information about. How great would it be if Wikileaks simply stated that it had information about a large conglomerate in some sector, and then a bunch of data is suddenly released via "Anonymous"?

    82. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because planning ahead would preclude putting things on hiatus so it could make headlines on a slow news day.

      Nigger, please.

    83. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is the private sector that is responsible for creating all the wealth in the country. Government creates exactly none of it.

      That's silly. The amount of market capitalization that could not exist without the internet is staggering. And it was the government that created the internet, not the private sector. Similarly, for better or for worse, a ton of the wealth of US companies is due to military activity around the world.

      And those are just a couple of examples...there's plenty more. Don't confuse the fact that the wealth belongs to the private sector and the fallacy that the private sector created all of that wealth. The government has played a huge part in creating much of that wealth for the private sector.

    84. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you misunderstood the hardware store example and his rant against the $80k threshold. It had nothing to do with him not understanding how the taxes are applied and everything to do with voters not understanding it.

      The point he's making, as I read it, is that politicians have created a false dichotomy to create opposition to increasing taxes on the wealthy. If you define taxes on the wealthy to start at $80k/yr, people won't support it because they either make more than that and don't want to pay more taxes or they see it as an attainable goal and don't want to be paying more taxes when they reach their goal. If the public understood how the taxes would work, they might support it, but they don't. So by framing the issue in this way, it's easy to demonstrate popular opposition to increasing the taxes on the rich.

      But if you reframe the issue as raising the taxes on those making $1m/yr, more people will support it because they don't make that much and don't think they'll get to that income level. But that doesn't happen because those in power set the parameters and all discussion of the issue happens in a context where the only two options considered are yes or no. Of course the other problem with reframing the issue to include those making $1m/yr is that there are very few people in that group. Rich people have found ways to ensure that compensation takes forms that are subject to other tax considerations like capital gains rather than income taxes, so you have to choose lower income levels where people earning the money don't have the leverage to demand alternate forms of compensation.

    85. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A bubble is something that expands to the point where it pops rather than going through the natural contractions to ensure stability.

      The housing bubble was caused by lenders trying to prolong the gravy train that they experienced during the housing boom. When it became apparent that not enough people could afford 30-year fixed mortgages with at least 10% down and that housing prices would drop (and fewer mortgages would be issued) until they reflected income levels, lenders decided to tamper with the market by turning to interest-only and negatively-amortizing loans to put people in houses they could not otherwise afford to ensure that home prices would continue to go up. But what they were doing was only ensuring that when the inevitable correction came it would be a pop rather than a contraction.

      Expecting borrowers to understand the dynamics of the housing market to the point where they understood that the market would crash is unrealistic. Expecting lenders to understand it, when they were issuing loans that they would not have issued had they been funding the loans themselves is not. Lenders were writing loans to people solely because they could resell the loan and make an immediate profit, often an obscene one (one magazine article profiled a mortgage broker making upwards of $120k/mo writing crap loans.)

      Lenders knew a drastic correction (a.k.a. the bubble popping) was coming. The wife of a former co-worker of mine worked for a company that offered PMI, something that almost every toxic loan included. About 6 months before the bubble popped, the company converted all employees to contract and paid dividends of almost all cash they'd accumulated to, primarily, investors, board members and company executives. Basically, they were preparing to fold when the loans defaulted rather than pay up. Most borrowers weren't nearly as well informed or gambled that they'd get in on what would not prove to be the bottom layer of the pyramid scheme. When it's your job to know the market, you should be held to a higher standard.

    86. Re:And... by twebb72 · · Score: 1

      True. Long term nothing will happen. However, there is a prevailing reason why nothing will happen.

      Several /.'ers have already posted that they felt closing their BOA checking account is the next move. Sure, the retail side of BOA will suffer, no doubt; but the mortgage side has a significant amount more momentum, and/or/urrr, consumer forgetfulness. Its not like you can just walk away from a 30 year mortgage. That combined with the general theme of people not refinancing and turning over homes as quickly as we once were, means that these home loans are going to be retained longer by the debtor on average.

      Ultimately, BOA's stock will drop a couple points, but they'll bounce back with a viral Superbowl commercial --- everybody's happy. Bonuses all around!

    87. Re:And... by doctor_subtilis · · Score: 1

      So do you live in a non-fascist country? Let me know where that is!

    88. Re:And... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Your advice is stupid. Your stance is wrong.

      Certainly these things are possible. I don't agree with you, but I do acknowledge their possibility.

      And indicating that an investigation should not be launched until the emails are authenticated is what makes you an idiot

      So from one sample , you draw a broad and sweeping conclusion. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, I guess.

      But that's wrong too. Emails indicating fraud should be sufficient to open an investigation. If they were faked, then the investigation will turn to one of fraud against the person that crafted the emails.

      Fair point, I hadn't considered it that way. On the other hand -- in the context of the OP and my reply-- the topic at hand was action to be taken against BoA specifically -- and in that I say "reserve judgement" until the veracity of the emails can be obtained.

      Context is important, don't you agree?

    89. Re:And... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      My point was that tax brackets stop rather abruptly.

      I have no idea why you complained about what you complained then, and not about there being more tax brackets.

      You just stated that voters attempting to tax the rich didn't want to tax poor, hand-to-mouth, small business owners, or at least people who sound like those to voters.You'll have to forgive me for reacting when you sounded _exactly_ like a Republican bitching about how poor people making $80,000 were being taxed.

      Incidentally, only about 20% of US household make over $80,000, and someone who owns a small business and taking that much in actual income is, frankly, rich. Owning a small business doing that well puts them way ahead of the game, and even a total collapse of the market hits them very slowly, as they always have business assets to sell off if they're making that much money. They probably have a six month buffer for economic downturns, as opposed to their staff, who have maybe two weeks, so the idea that they have special 'saving' requirements is absurd. The people with the special saving requirements is the clerk at the register without health insurance, not the guy in the back who, in the end, owns the damn building and can sell that to live.

      Although it is a good point that voters are morons and don't know that. But next time, how about you mention that their belief is wrong, instead of just repeating 'Here what is going on, according to the voters.'? Unless you want to, quite understandable, sound exactly like the people who taught the voters that?

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    90. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's going to enforce that? And do you really think that it would be enforced fairly?

      That's a VERY dangerous path to take.

    91. Re:And... by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      except when you have government guarantees to buy bad loans then why bother making sure they can pay it back. Just broker the deal then pass it on.

      There is no way for a business plan of, "lets loan money to people that can't afford to pay it back" can ever get anywhere in a free market.

      No doubt the government incentives were a major factor in why so many fraudulent loans were issued; that does not, however, negate that these mortgages were issued fraudulently. As for the free market.. I'd say you should look into the history of snake oil. It sold rather well, despite having no redeeming value.

    92. Re:And... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, no, I live in the extremely fascist USA.

      While it's usually a degree rather than a yes-no binary state, I'd say the USA is currently one of the most (if not the most) fascist countries in existence, compared to other industrialized countries. The Western European countries, for instance, seem to be more concerned with individuals' rights and freedoms, rather than doing everything possible to prop up large corporations. Most industrialized nations, for instance, have socialized health care, where basically the government pays directly for citizens' health care costs, whereas we just passed fascist healthcare, which props up and guarantees profits to large healthcare insurance corporations, entities which don't provide healthcare at all and just stand in the way of providing it.

    93. Re:And... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      And yet the government supports the same thing with Homeopathic remedies today. For the same reason. There is value in peoples Peace of Mind even if there is no distinct difference between the snake oil and placebo.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    94. Re:And... by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      Which government is this? Last I checked, the FDA has a "hands off" approach to alternative medicine, unless that "medicine" turns out to either a.) be scientifically proven to work (then it endorses it), or b.) gets you high (in which case it criminalizes it).

  3. I will be closing my BOA account.... by Mazzie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and switching to a more reputable corporate behemoth like... hrmm... like... uhhh... doh!

    --
    Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
    1. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Switch to a local credit union. That is, by far, your best alternative.

    2. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I moved to BB&T in 2007... I've been told they didn't participate in the Mortgage Backed Security cluster-fk back then, but I can't confirm on google right now.

    3. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Funny

      I deposit my money into Sealy Posturepedic...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    4. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and switching to a more reputable corporate behemoth like... hrmm... like... uhhh... doh!

      ... a Credit Union? Trust me, you'll never look back.

    5. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Start your own bank! We could always do with a few more, competition and all that.

    6. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear Sir: If I had Mod points, you would have them.
      -A. Nonymouse

    7. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by dunezone · · Score: 1

      Come on Comrade! Chase me to CHASE!

    8. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by elrous0 · · Score: 1, Redundant

      My grandpa (who lived through the Depression) always used to say it was better to buy gold and bury it in your backyard than to put your money in a bank. And to think we used to laugh at him.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    9. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by jellomizer · · Score: 0

      It really doesn't matter who you go with. A big name like BoA starts to do something where at the time is getting customerers shortly other banks will do the same just to stay competitive. Competition isn't always good, especially when the biggest competitor plays underhanded.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Captain+Hook · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have actually looked into doing that, well I looked into setting up a Building Society here in the UK (Our equivalent of a Credit Union) but according to the Building Society Association, it needs a minimum of £1M backing with 10 members agreeing on a business plan which can take 2 years to get approval from the FSA. The last Building Society to be setup was in the 1980s.

      In some ways I think it's good that it takes a lot of effort and regulation to setup a Building Society but in a post Bankers are scum world, it does kind of feel like it's just there to stop new players entering a market which competes against banks and their huge profit margins.

      I wonder if there will be some new Building Societies started up in the future given the hatred of bankers or whether the market has now been so well sewed up and no small BS's could ever be started again.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    11. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Switch to a credit union.
      Usual benefits include no more fees for checking account, free check books, low credit interest rates etc.

    12. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Credit unions also often offer higher interest on savings accounts and lower interest on loans.

    13. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Won't work. While you could get your mortgage from a local credit union, your credit union may sell your mortgage to Bank of America. And, there is nothing you can do about it.

    14. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      My Serta fund has been consistently outperforming most of my other investments for the past several years.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    15. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only problem is, refinancing your house costs thousands of dollars so it's not so easy just to switch.

    16. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Palshife · · Score: 1

      I still would laugh. Even through the economic disaster of the last few years no depositors lost money from FDIC backed banks. Perhaps the lesson here is it's better to keep your money in the bank rather than toss it at the open market.

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    17. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by xMrFishx · · Score: 2

      It would be interesting to run a money instutition based on loaning money you actually Have, and publically displaying loan transactions, in and out on a minute by minute basis. Is there such thing as a LawfulGood bank, and could one be made?

    18. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seconded. And they're generally more efficient and profitable simply by virtue of being open and thus less corrupt.

    19. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Predius · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless you get a non-transferable mortgage. You often have to opt for a slightly higher rate if you go that route, but the option is there.

    20. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CHASE is actually one of the worst banks in the world, and this is not my opinion, it's a proven fact. Google it. As a rule of thumb, don't ever subscribe to something that keeps sending you spam everyday in the mail.

    21. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When gold is cheap, that actually could be a good idea (as long as you (a) remember where you buried it and (b) don't let anyone with a metal detector near your yard).

      But when gold is at record high prices like it is now, you really don't want to be buying the stuff in bulk unless you really know what you're doing.

    22. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Foofoobar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      yep have to admit when all the mortgage things happened, the credit unions remained unscathed. My wife and I asked our credit union about that and they said they don't report to a board but only report to their members so they are not under alot of pressure to make giant risky investments; they are only their for their members. And while other banks were being taken over left and right, you didn't see hardly any credit unions being taken over.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    23. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      If you put in piece of paper that says100$ and get back another piece of paper that says 100$ a few years later, you would claim you did not lose any money. But the 100$ you put in had greater buying power than the 100$ you get back, you have lost money.

      I am not saying Gold will not lose buying power, prices of gold has had significant down turns in the past, and only after the recent run up, gold is catching up to inflation, it has not beaten the stocks or bonds in the long run (20 years). But still it is very naive to claim that no one lost money in FDIC banks.

      Modern society has become very complex with very heavy reliance on external infrastructure in every walk of life. You can not simply disengage from the society and try to live a self sufficient life style of agriculture, hunting and fishing. And the system has become so complex even the top money managers don't really know the risks, and nor do they know how to de-escalate the race to the bottom.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    24. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong.

      Your bank account has lost a significant amount of purchasing power since 2008.

    25. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also, if credit unions aren't an option for you (which depending on your laws they may not be), at least look for a locally owned bank. They have in general been behaving much better towards their customers and depositors than the big guys.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    26. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by certain+death · · Score: 1

      No one lost money on FDIC Insured banks?!?!? I think you need to go do some research before you say something like that. The insurance is only good up to 150,000 or 100,000 dollars...people have lost money.

      --
      "My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
    27. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      So how many normal citizens in USA has this far lost how much of their money due to failed banks ?

      Burying gold in your backyard was dumb then, and is dumb now. And yes, I know gold has performed well recently. It's still not *productive*, a kilogram of gold today will still be a kilogram of gold in 20 years, no new value has been produced.

      If humanity collectively declined to invest our surplus, or atleast parts of it, we'd still be living in caves.

    28. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks to mineral rights (or lack of them), I wouldn't be burying anything of value in my yard.

    29. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please.... £1M and 10 members, and you think that's a steep entry requirement to start up a financial institution??

      You're talking about an institution who's purpose is to loan money for a mortgage to buy a home (hence the word "building" in Building Society). Given that the average house price in the UK is in the region of £200K - £300K (depending on region), you're going to be handing out that million in startup funds fairly quickly once you start getting even just a handful of customers.

    30. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by bberens · · Score: 1

      I hear this a lot, but I have never found it to be beneficial to switch away from my megabank because even though the credit union might offer a fraction of a percent higher savings rates it never seems to make up for the additional fees and restrictions required. At my megabank since I use direct deposit I never have to pay any fees except for foreign ATMs, but they're so prolific that that's hardly even an inconvenience the 2-3 times per year I need cash for something.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    31. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all credit unions do this, BofA underwrites the mortgages of my credit union. Although its in the fine print, it is on their website, but buried.

    32. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on how much equity you have. Usually you can do a "cash out" refinancing, where you refinance more than what you currently owe, and use the extra to pay for the closing costs. As long as your interest rate is lower than your original loan, you won't have to worry about higher monthly payments for the "cash out" option.

    33. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're also the first ones to go bankrupt during a bank run.

    34. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Wrong.

      Your bank account has lost a significant amount of purchasing power since 2008.

      Depends on what you want to buy... houses would still be cheaper now.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    35. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by erroneus · · Score: 1

      We need more than individuals closing their BoA accounts. We need some list of companies currently banking through BoA as well. If we had a list like that, we could release the list and suddenly find a bunch of people with nothing better to do than protest those companies until they close their accounts with BoA. If something like that were to happen with large enough numbers, the bank would simply fail. I would love to see that kind of justice.

      After all, while this housing crisis was going down, BoA shamelessly pushed harder to get foreclosures causing the crisis to become worse than it needed to be. No one can fault the banks for acting "properly" as a business will. But when they act improperly as is indicated in this case, then repercussions should occur including, but not limited to, returning foreclosed properties to the original buyers. If BoA illegally foreclosed on someone, they should be required to give it back and even have to pay damages on top of that. (I would love it if the loan needed to be "forgiven" and the people get to own their homes out-right as a penalty.)

      When a national or even global crisis can be traced back to individuals, those individuals need to answer for what they have done.

    36. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by dmorris68 · · Score: 1

      Not always, like anything YMMV. It really depends on where you live/work (i.e. the CU's available to you), and what you look for in a bank. For instance, the largest CU around here, and the one partnered with my employer, is well known to have pretty lousy service and extremely vanilla features, like antiquated systems, barely offering online banking, no integration with personal financial software, frequent banking errors that cause embarrassing checkout moments and generate fees that have to be challenged/refunded, no Saturday hours, etc. etc. I know of several people left them for the larger chain banks just to have access to these "convenience" features, even if they pay slightly more in fees or interest.

      My bank used to be a hometown bank, which was both good and bad. Customer service was great, but they too lagged far behind in innovation compared to the bigger banks. Several years ago they were acquired by BB&T, which caused me some concern at first since I wasn't sure I would like the big bank changes. However in this case it has been a very positive experience. Service levels remain high, and they've added almost all the missing features that my hometown bank wouldn't/couldn't offer.

      As for BOA, I don't think I'd ever willingly bank with them even without knowing this dirt on them. My only experience with them is from a fixed-term line of credit that we've had for years that originated with MBNA, who was subsequently acquired by BOA. Within about a year after the acquisition, with no notice whatsoever, we realized that our credit line was closed to further withdrawals. Despite never missing a payment (in fact the payments are drafted automatically from my bank account), and having no derogatory information on our credit reports, when I called I was told that the majority of acquired open accounts were closed after review, with no other explanation. I could continue paying it off according to the original terms, but we could no longer make use of the line of credit.

    37. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by gpmanrpi · · Score: 1

      Which is why you would have to be special to think that putting it all in one bank is a good idea. Once you reach the limit, there are other banks.

    38. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I should draw your attention to the landmark supreme court case of Mattress v. House Fire.

    39. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by squizzar · · Score: 1

      Presumably something like Zopa is close to this? As I understand it they're not pulling off any tricks involving lending the same capital several times.

    40. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by s4m7 · · Score: 1

      It probably depends on where you live, but I have a number of local banks and credit unions that charge next to nothing with respect to ATM fees and transaction fees. I mostly like that I know where my local bank president lives, so I know where to carry the pitchfork, if necessary. I think the point is, shop around. BoA is not the best option available for reasons OTHER than being shady welfare recipients.

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    41. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Just use a credit union.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    42. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by WillAdams · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I tried to go that route, but the nice locally-owned bank couldn't resist being bought out --- two name changes later and I now own a couple of dozen shares of a Spanish bank --- curious how honest / decent they are? Check the news:

      http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110310-709686.html

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    43. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Not an issue in the US unless one is bank ~$250,000 or whatever the maximum the FDIC will insure per depositor these days.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    44. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by s4m7 · · Score: 2

      Perhaps the lesson here is it's better to keep your money in the bank rather than toss it at the open market.

      Except of course when the banks turn around and toss that same money at the same open market, which is what they all do.

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    45. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Vaphell · · Score: 1

      maybe food and energy - you know, these daily expenditures?

    46. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by enjerth · · Score: 2

      Silly. People don't buy houses with money any more. They buy houses with debt.

    47. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Vaphell · · Score: 1

      and then FDIC runs out of money, feds come to the rescue with quantitative-eased (aka printed) money to cover the difference and purchasing power of every dollar in existence goes down - you've lost again, thanks for playing.

    48. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by kd5zex · · Score: 1

      I am sure all credit unions are different, but I pay no fees at all. In fact, the credit union I use actually gives me a dime each time I use my debit card. Couple this with the electronic check deposits via computer or mobile phone and I am a happy camper.

    49. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by trollertron3000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You basically nailed why so many corporations are suffering from corruption from within - they are beholden to board members more than their customers. They don't even care about the fundamentals of business anymore. They're too busy inventing new ways to fuck each other.

      --
      Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
    50. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

      It's $250,000 for the 'base' deposit account type, and much more for certain kinds of accounts. If you're the kind of bozo who keeps more than a quarter million dollars in cash at the bank (i.e., not invested, in a 'regular' account) and your bank failed, I suppose it's possible that you didn't get a full settlement from the FDIC. So far, I am not aware of that happening, not even once.

      The burden of proof is on -you- to show that people's FDIC-backed accounts at failed banks were not 'made whole'. Find one instance, I dare you.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    51. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Vaphell · · Score: 1

      wait what?
      Are you saying that producing paper money somehow creates new value as opposed to using gold?
      How did humanity manage to move from caves given that gold and silver were almost universally used as a store of value for few thousands years and fiat money is only a recent invention? Do you imply that the idea of investing didn't exist back then, not to mention 19th century USA on gold standard that experienced unmatched economic growth AND falling prices?

    52. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      My credit union refunds all ATM transaction fees, and I get a dividend payout at the end of the year.

      Being in a credit union is like being a bank stockholder to a degree. It is much preferable to being part of a bank.

      Find a good one and you will have very little to worry about financially if you're responsible.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    53. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Average rate of return on savings accounts, 2010: 0.7%
      Rate of return on gold, 2010: 35%

      Keep laughing.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    54. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now where's my +1 Sad But True...

    55. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by certain+death · · Score: 1

      Read up douche - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Deposit_Insurance_Corporation Prior to 2008, the limit was $100,000. I lost $45,000 that was not reimbursed, proof enough?

      --
      "My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
    56. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by PPH · · Score: 1

      First National of Nigeria. I hear they've already got a large deposit ready for me should I open an account with them.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    57. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Mazzie · · Score: 1

      I don't get spam from Chase, but a ton from Capital One. Is that the one you meant?

      --
      Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
    58. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If humanity collectively declined to invest our surplus, or atleast parts of it, we'd still be living in caves.

      Ironically, due to the illegal actions of Bank of America, a lot of Americans ARE living in caves, or under bridges, or on the street, or somewhere other than their foreclosed homes...

    59. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as there is no backlash, why shouldn't they? As long as the people who hold the purse strings still buy into "too big to fail" there is no reason to reform.
       
      Until we get to the point that CEOs can be sued into poverty or jailed for their mismanagement there is no reason to change. The majority of these criminals that went before congress on this matter just a while ago are still getting bonus checks this year that match or beat what most peasants will make in a lifetime.
       
      Let the good times roll.

    60. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that. They are beholden to their board members more than even their owners (stockholders).

      The mysterious board members tend to be executives in other corporations, so everybody strokes everybody else's back

    61. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My megabank telling me that they charge $5 for a money order was about the time when I told them they could go fly a kite, and took the remaining $200-ish out of my account and closed it.

    62. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've always liked the idea of cooperatively owned businesses, I would like to see it applied to more types of businesses. In Sweden, one of the largest supermarket chains is a consumer coop, they have better quality overall than the privately owned chains in my experience, perhaps because of the lack of pressure to cut costs from investors who only care about the profits. Members pay a one-time member fee and then get refunds on what they buy, between 1 and 5%.

    63. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have experience this also. Go the the smaller community banks or credit unions. They will WANT your business and treat you much better then Bank of America.

    64. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You lost $45k because you had nearly $150k in a regular FDIC-backed account at a bank that failed?

      Hehehe. That's not actually the sort of thing I'd admit in public...

    65. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      This is not my experience. My credit union offers 3.5% on checking (catch: use the debit card at least 12x per month; e-statements; direct deposit - hardly difficult). Savings rates are better than BofA (0.25% on Money Market, 0.2% on savings; other CU is 0.15% on savings vs. 0.05% for BOA).

      Combine this with the fact that my dollars aren't going to BOA's bottom line and it's a no-brainer.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    66. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      gold is catching up to inflation

      What does this even mean? How can an arbitrarily priced commodity "catch up" to inflation?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    67. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I hate Bank of America with a passion and look forward to the day when I become an ex-customer. I have loans on my credit cards to pay off first due to underemployment.

      What is weird?
      1. I get charged $9 to talk to a teller. Yes, I am restricted to use an ATM only unless I put $2,000 in checking at all times and agree to outrageous fines and penalties if I ever go under???

      2. Pay $125 in fees just to make sure my identity is not stolen for my credit cards. I still have to pay the interest and principal. As a result the $500 I put down each month has a small return on what I am paying the card back.

      3. I had them look me right in the eye when I asked about a cash advanced and they told no interest penalties at all if I pay it back in 2 weeks. I was going to be paid so taking $1,000 for christmas travel was no biggie. I went to pay it and BOA said ... oh you need to pay off all your credit cards first. That will be 50% interest.! I was about to assault the lady there I was so angry. They simply put the cash advance on my credit card and put it on the last month to pay off. Today I have paid at least $3,000 in interest for that $1,000 3 years ago.

      4. I was late for one payment and my interest rate jumped to 38%.

      I realize my own personal irresponsibility got me into this mess. But someone with a previous 715 credit score should not be rapped HARD in the a** for these things. I am very angry and hope they rot in jail! Moral of the story is if you are short on cash never never use a credit card. There should be laws agaisnt this.

      BOA is no different than the mob in my opinion and is a deviant evil empire. Strong words, but after they way they have stolen from me and treated me I have nothing left to say.

      I should have them paid off by September and will happily switch to a credit union then.

    68. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      I tried to compile your sig and it threw a syntax error.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    69. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Palshife · · Score: 1

      Lies, damned lies and statistics. Gold dropped almost 50% between 1989 and 2000.

      Oddly fascinated by your lack of reference on the 35% figure. Did you just make that up or something? And 35% return from when?

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    70. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by keytoe · · Score: 1

      Silly. People don't buy houses with money any more. They buy houses with debt.

      Even if I had the cash on hand, I'd have to look very hard at financing a mortgage in the current economy. A fixed 4% interest rate has a very good chance of beating inflation over 30 years.

    71. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by joeflies · · Score: 1

      I bet your local credit union is even far less prepared than BoA from being able to fend off hacker attacks.

    72. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by mhelander · · Score: 1

      He is saying that if everyone were to bury their wealth, be it gold or paper money, in their back yards rather than reinvest then that would be damaging for society's productivity.

    73. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At business school I learned something within the first 20 minutes of finance 101. The most important lesson in the class which was repeated on the final was what is a company's goal?

      If you said to make money you are wrong. The goal of a corporation is to raise its stock price, not make money. A third of the course dealt with how to trick investors by creating magical ratios of liquidity (assets that can turn to cash very fast) to make wall street happy and raise the share price. To top it off we studied how going into debt was a great thing as it gave you profit leverage. Holding off paying your suppliers was good too as you can invest the money while you drag your feet.

      The rest of the course dealt with a privately held and small companies. Now their goals was to make money as well as have an excellent credit rating and low debt to make sure adequate lines of credit were available in case of an emergency and to plan ahead conservatively without going bankrupt. 2 different worlds.

      Private companies are the way to go. They simply make rational decisions and play by the rules. The big boys don't and love risk. If the average CEO job is short you can guarantee yourself you wont be held accountable either for short term gains that cost the company later. WOW

    74. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Relayman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if you're waiting until now to be upset with BOA, you haven't been paying attention.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    75. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Switch to a local credit union. That is, by far, your best alternative.

      That's what your local credit union would like you to believe...
       
      But my local credit union doesn't hold mortgage paper - it sold my mortgage to Countrywide before I'd even signed the papers. (In fact, the earliest paperwork I filled out already had Countrywide preprinted on it.) The same is true for the credit card I have from my local credit union, the credit union doesn't back the card, it's just an affiliate/franchisee of Visa.

    76. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by tixxit · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the lesson here is it's better to keep your money in the bank rather than toss it at the open market.

      Or, better yet, understand the risks, and put your money into an appropriate mix of assets, federally backed savings/investments, and higher risk investments. Obviously what you do depends largely on your financial situation and age.

    77. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by charlesj68 · · Score: 1

      Might as well, the interest rates almost the same.

    78. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      yep have to admit when all the mortgage things happened, the credit unions remained unscathed. My wife and I asked our credit union about that and they said they don't report to a board but only report to their members so they are not under alot of pressure to make giant risky investments; they are only their for their members.

      If your local credit union is anything like mine - they were unscathed during the mortgage crisis because they didn't actually hold any mortgages in the first place. They'd either sold them to one of the big companies as soon as the ink was dry, or they'd never held the paper in the first place, acting merely as an affiliate/franchisee for one of the big companies. My local credit union even takes this 'arms length' approach a step further - their 'mortgage arm' is actually a quasi-independent (but wholly owned by the credit union) organization to whom the credit union has licensed their name.
       
      Thus while hundreds (thousands? we're a small place) of mortgages theoretically issued by the credit union have gone under - none of them appear on the credit union's books. They've already taken their profit and run.

    79. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by zill · · Score: 1

      I should draw your attention to the fact that gold evaporates at 5173 degrees Fahrenheit.

    80. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Amouth · · Score: 1

      the credit union here in NC.. charges 1$ per month per account .. 10$ a year for a small safety deposit box and zero ATM fees even on foreign (and they also don't charge fees on outside banks using their ATM's)

      they do have the stipulation that you can not run a biz account out of it.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    81. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1
      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    82. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      How can an arbitrarily priced commodity "catch up" to inflation?

      Inflation itself is just the average rate of increase in the cost of a whole lot of arbitrarily priced commodities...

    83. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by praxis · · Score: 1

      The United States has plenty of cooperative markets. Some states are more conscious about such things than others and will have more (there are more within 30km of me than the entire states of Alaska, Arkansas, Delaware, etc).

    84. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Watch out! We used to have a consumer coop grocery. It worked fine for over 40 years. Then a bunch of businessmen got elected to the board, and decided to "grow the company". Now we don't have a co-op anymore. It went bankrupt within five years. Loans that couldn't be paid, etc.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    85. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by bberens · · Score: 1

      I suggest you look at the 1-year charts for gold vs. the 1-year chart for purchasing power of the dollar. The people with money in the bank (including myself) have lost plenty of money.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    86. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Read up douche - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Deposit_Insurance_Corporation Prior to 2008, the limit was $100,000. I lost $45,000 that was not reimbursed, proof enough?

      While you do provide the one instance the GP requested, if you look past his silly challenge he does make a valid point. The $100,000 limit was well known. Many folks of quite modest education were aware of this and split their life savings across multiple unrelated institutions. I think your situation is quite the outlier.

    87. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Lies, damned lies and statistics. Gold dropped almost 50% between 1989 and 2000.

      I think gold dropped roughly 50% between 1980 and 1982, and then trended downward until 2002. There is a little noise in the graph but rallies quickly failed for 20+ years.

    88. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by bberens · · Score: 1

      Here's an example of the rates you see at one of my local credit unions. https://www.orlandofcu.org/products/savings_rates.asp#moneymarketrates If I had over $1 Million I still could not exceed 1% growth on a money market account. At the time I researched it a while back they were all essentially in the same boat.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    89. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      I should draw your attention to the landmark supreme court case of Mattress v. House Fire.

      More proof of the superiority of investing in gold rather than paper assets. ;-)

    90. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Foofoobar · · Score: 2

      Actually that's incorrect on a technicality. That's the goal of a CORPORATION... not a COMPANY. A corporation's goal is to raise it's stock price. A company's goal is to make money.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    91. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      The rates at Orlando FCU for savings accounts are 4x BOA's rates. A 12 month CD at BOA (min $10k) earns 0.6%; at OFCU ($1k min) you get 0.7%

      No institution is going to be able to offer much over 1% on large deposits thanks to the Federal Reserve's actions, but you are getting significantly better rates at your CU vs. a commercial bank.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    92. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Credit unions are also hurting. Even if they didn't explicitly cause the problems, anyone holding loans with low downpayments is now in trouble, and in some sense helped cause the runup in prices. I've noticed a lot of credit unions consolidating in the KC metro area, for example.

    93. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

      Inflation is based on the price increase of a basket of goods and services used by typical families. Gold is not part of that basket. Gold's value was falling steadily for a long time. A fixed amount of gold could buy smaller and smaller part of the basket all through 1980 till 2007, despite the spikes at y2k, 9/11 etc. Finally a bar of gold buried in the backyard back in the 1980s has the same purchasing power, almost but not quite. It has not beaten bond returns nor stock returns over that long a period.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    94. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DavidTC · · Score: 2

      Indeed, and the stockholders they do care about are in it for one thing: To watch their stock price rise, so they can dump it and make a profit.

      So CEO, brought in by the board (who are large stockholders) do crazy manipulations, like laying off half the workforce, that bring the stock price up. So board members can sell. Then these idiot manipulations catch up as the company loses value, and the stock price drops, and they let the CEO out the door with a million dollar parachute for doing the job he was hired. New stock holders come in, and old board members buy more stock, and they hire a new CEO to do the same fucking thing.

      And the thing is, it's not even a 'conspiracy'. It doesn't require any conscious action at all, all it requires is a board that cares more about short-term stock price movement than the company.

      In an actual functioning business universe, stockholders would be in it for the dividends, and stock prices would literally be rock solid-stable, at least between quarterly projections and barring disasters. They would simply be a reflection of value of company/amount of stock issued, and would only change if those things changed. There is no reason at all for stock prices to change on a hourly or even weekly basis. How would a multimillion dollar corporation change 30% in value over a week and then back?!?!

      Instead, we've turned the stock market into a lottery. Now, I don't mind a fucking lottery, I have no problem with horse racing, if people want to do that I have no objection. What I don't like is the fact we've apparently connected this lottery straight to our economy to the extent that we're operating out economy for the lottery.

      I say you get to buy stock once a quarter. That's it. Each new quarter, a company issue dividends for the last quarter, and projections for the next quarter, and whether it will issue more stock or not, and a week later on a certain day you put in buy or sell orders for the stock, which are all resolved at the same time, at the end of the day, and you own the stock all quarter.

      Period. You want to buy a fucking company, you have to, you know, actually commit to owning it longer than a damn can of frozen orange juice.

      This is such a blatantly obvious and sane way to treat stock ownership, and yet it never gets considered. Instead, the markets work more and more to make it faster to sell and buy stock, which is not the slightest bit useful for actual company ownership (Which is what stocks are supposed to be.), but is very useful for the lottery they're operating. Which uses corporations, which employ almost everyone and produce almost everything, as fucking toys.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    95. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      What bank failure was that? In almost all cases, the feds work out a deal where the buyer of the bank must cover above the insurance limit. Not to mention you had $145,000 in a checking account, knowing that it was insured up to $100,000...

    96. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's a gold bubble. Tell me what it's worth in 10 years. I'd guess less than today. In 10 years, one of us gets to say "I told you so."

    97. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by russotto · · Score: 1

      The credit unions mostly remained unscathed because they don't hold their mortgages; they flip them to places like Bank of America.

    98. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Vaphell · · Score: 1

      if burying works better than investing then there is something seriously wrong with the monetary system. Paper money allows politicians and banking system to impose inflation tax that slowly eats away people's purchasing power - don't be naive to think that wages keep up with inflation. Bugus government numbers are bogus.

    99. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm with the AC. That's not exactly something to admit to, since keeping that much in a single standard account seems silly.

    100. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Yea I know! It is time to move away from "shareholder value" being defined as stock price. Even some public companies are doing so.

    101. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      Why so keen for a new building society? There's already ample choice.

      There are also other types of organisations you may wish to consider, for example the Co-operative bank. Whilst this is a bank and not owned by it's customers, it is owned by the Co-op, a supermarket (etc) which *is* owned by it's customers. Just pop into a store and pick up a membership card.

      Actually, depending on what's available where you live you can pretty much avoid the, uh, corporate corporations. If you're looking for a department store there's John Lewis (owned by all of it's staff), for your daily there's the Guardian which is owned by a trust (kind of, but not quite a charity), BBC for telly... Often the mutuals etc are at least amongst the better options, though your choices would be pretty limited especially for entertainment.

    102. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by hicksw · · Score: 1

      Or you could pop over to Balloon Street in Manchester (across from Victoria Station) and open an account with the Co-operative Bank. Also available online for UK residents.
      --
      I am not a pretentious idiot, but I play one on the internet.

    103. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If you said to make money you are wrong. The goal of a corporation is to raise its stock price, not make money."

      Umm...raising the stock price of a coporation WILL make money - higher valuation allows the corp to borrow more money, leverage it to buy other companies, etc but most important make money for the executives and the investors who sell (or short) in the higher price.

    104. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Palshife · · Score: 2

      I suggest you look further out than one year and stop worrying about how much money you lost by not buying gold. You could just as easily have lost it buying gold (as many have done throughout history). Invest in stable, predictable products that provide a reasonable rate of return over a lifetime. One year is get-rich-quick talk.

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    105. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      I got 35% by comparing January 2010 with January 2011. Napkin number, though. Not financial advice of any kind. Anyway, my point was not "buy gold," because obviously that's stupid. My point was "OP's grandpa was right, the bank is fucking you."

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    106. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Spot gold closings
      March 14, 2001: $269.30
      March 14, 2011: $1422.25

      Numbers are fun.

      Anyway, I'm not touting gold, obviously you're right that it's an absurd, unsustainable price. My point was that the bank is a shitty place to invest your money.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    107. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      but the cash in mattress bubble is going to be popped here very soon by the inflation pin.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    108. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by markov_chain · · Score: 1

      Burying is stupid, now that x-ray works again with Bukkit 1.3 someone will find it in no time.

      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    109. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Burning1 · · Score: 1
    110. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Early on working in business you learn that the job of the corporation is to "increase shareholder value".

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    111. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Like HP was?

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    112. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought mine on a close out sale of sorts about two years ago during the glut. Things are looking up!

    113. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Thus while hundreds (thousands? we're a small place) of mortgages theoretically issued by the credit union have gone under - none of them appear on the credit union's books. They've already taken their profit and run.

      Yes, but thanks to this the members of the credit union (end-users, ie: anyone who puts their life savings in an account there) are in a much safer position than people who put "money in the bank". Your credit union knew exactly how to handle itself to protect its members. If the big guys weren't so eager to buy up bad mortgages, I'm betting the CU wouldn't have made them in the first place, simple supply and demand.

    114. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by c0lo · · Score: 1

      maybe food and energy - you know, these daily expenditures?

      If you use the money you've earned in 2008 (and stored in your saving) for the "daily expenditures", yes, you are in a deep shit (applies for retirees too). Almost the same if your salary wasn't adjusted from 2008.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    115. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      I'm not sure how your comment is related to mine. It seems to support my assertion that gold will drop because that level of increase must be a bubble, and not based on the "intrinsic" value that gold-nuts attribute to it. Or do you think that the intrinsic value of gold actually did increase that much in that time? If so, how is that "intrinsic."

      My point was that the bank is a shitty place to invest your money.

      And a mattress is a bad place to invest money too. The point he was making wasn't one of "investment" but of risk minimization. You don't lose (or make) money by putting cash in a bank. You can lose money putting it in securities. And anyone buying gold now will lose money selling it 10 years from now. Someone putting it in a bank for 10 years will just about break even.

    116. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      LOL I was just doing the same, wondering what to remove to get one more char. Protip: "Function" can be shortened to "Func". :) (PS Yours is too a sig -- or perhaps a Star Wars reference. :)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    117. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by PrimeNumber · · Score: 1

      The poster means that gold is unlike like other investment instruments that appreciate value over the years such as stocks, bonds, cds, real estate, et al. that generally exceed the rate of inflation so you actually "make" money.

      I thought it was obvious what your parent poster was saying, surely you aren't so literal minded you couldn't figure out what he/she was saying, or are you a cleverly disguised troll?

    118. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      "How would a multimillion dollar corporation change 30% in value over a week and then back?!?!"

      It doesn't need to. Stock price doesn't measure value, it measures perceived future value. And as someone who works at Nokia, I know everything there is to know about losing 30% of your stock price...

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    119. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Thus while hundreds (thousands? we're a small place) of mortgages theoretically issued by the credit union have gone under - none of them appear on the credit union's books. They've already taken their profit and run.

      Yes, but thanks to this the members of the credit union (end-users, ie: anyone who puts their life savings in an account there) are in a much safer position than people who put "money in the bank". Your credit union knew exactly how to handle itself to protect its members.

      I don't think the people who the credit union conned into buying bad mortgages so they could make a little profit (all of whom were members as well) feel particularly protected. They didn't need a bailout, but that doesn't make them any less slimy.

    120. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What locally owned banks? They were all bought up years ago. We don't have a single "local" bank. However we do have credit unions. I switch a year or two ago. I'm not so sure I've been all that pleased though with my credit union. They are actually worse than my old bank in allot of ways. I get a ton of advertisements from them. It's extremely annoying. I'm guessing that is what pays its employees wages. I do wonder though why I pay so many fees. I also have fewer services. For instance I have to print my checks off every three months or pay $3 per check. It is insane. Why can't they just send them to me? I know this is not just a credit union thing. The banks have stopped sending you cancelled checks too. I do get free checks at least and am not paying any regular monthly fees. I also have both a personal and business checking/savings account.

    121. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like to think that non-profits are going to eventually win out - effectively they are self-owned businesses - i.e. there's nobody sucking profit out as dividends, either as shareholders or as member-owners. They hypothetically make the most competitive entities, and if structured properly, they can be just as competitive as a corporation in hiring and investment in capital.

    122. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      My Serta fund has been consistently outperforming most of my other investments for the past several years.

      Just wait til your fund gets so popular others want to make a withdrawl.

      Or worse... your fund gets hot, it gets really hot... at least 500 degrees hot.

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    123. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      No. I'm saying one of the primary ways we progress, is by investing some of our surplus into creating even larger surplus and so on.

      If you've got a kilo of gold saved up (surplus: something you earned, but don't need to survive), then burying it somewhere best-case ensures that in the future, you have the same thing.

      In contrast, some people choose to invest part of their surplus in some activity with the potential to create even more surplus. We call this *investing* or *entrepeneurship* or *a business*, and the gist of it is: it has higher risk, you can lose your money, but it has an *expected* return better than unity. i.e. if you invest a certain value now, you'll *probably* have more than that value in the future, because on the average, these things create additional surplus. (if they didn't, we should stop doing it!)

      There's many different ways of investing. You could educate yourself. You could give a loan to someone else for educating him/herself. You could build a factory. You could open a shop. You could do *anything*.

      Burying the gold is choosing to do nothing. It's choosing to say: breaking even is the BEST I can hope for, so that's what I'm going to aim for.

      If everyone says "my aim is to break even", then best-case, humanity as a whole breaks even. Which isn't conductive to progress.

      By all means, keep secure those resources you *do* need to support yourself. But if you've got a little more than that ? Invest it. Put the money into something where the expected return is above unity.

    124. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      There is no such thing as value besides perceived future value for investments, so I have no idea what your point is. About the only inherent value of stock is you can vote it.

      The fact is, there are disasters that can ruin companies. Usually not by 30%, but it can happen. But I will point out that 30% of Nokia's plants didn't explode or half their stock eaten by alligators or whatever. The actual value, which is 'predicted productivity over X years plus assets' did not change by 30%.

      The actual company-ruining disasters are nowhere near as the stock market makes them out to be, and they do not happen then unhappen and then happen again like some sort of crazy yo-yo. BP managed to recover from the fucking oil spill.

      The reason stock prices go up and down like they do is solely because people think stock prices are going to change. It has nothing to do with future value of the company, and everything to do with future value of the stock, which has become utterly disconnected from actual company valuation.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    125. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      In almost every single bank failure I've ever heard of, they were acquired by new bank that covered every single checking and saving deposit in its entirety, without even calling in the FDIC.

      The amount of failures that actually required the FDIC to step in and actually send FDIC payouts is, like one of ten, and as you said it works with new banks to get them to cover amounts over that. (And amounts under that, if it can.)

      Likewise, the dead bank still owes whatever money FDIC insurance or the new bank didn't cover, and creditor will get it back in bankrupcy, if it's left.

      But having $145,000 in a 'bank account' is just stupid, period. Not just because of the FDIC limit, but because that's a stupid way to invest.

      Of course, he could have had bank CDs, which also count towards the deposit limit...but all those CDs at the same bank shows either he had an epic bank that somehow imploded, or that he didn't bother shopping for interest rates.

      If I had $145,000, I'd be walking into other banks with $50,000 and trying to dictate terms to them on an investment. They can either give me an extra percentage point of interest on my CD or I can walk down the street to a competitor. Letting them keep $50,000 of my money for a year is around the point I can start doing that, or at least around the point I'd try it with some of the smaller banks, I have no idea if it would worked.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    126. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      Invest in stable, predictable products that provide a reasonable rate of return over a lifetime. One year is get-rich-quick talk.

      Oooh, you mean like houses? Oh wait, that won't work.
      Real Estate? uh, negative there...
      Bank investments. Hmmm, this is harder than it looks.
      401k?

      Which predictable products are you talkin about again?

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    127. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      Thanks to mineral rights (or lack of them), I wouldn't be burying anything of value in my yard.

      Arizona too?

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    128. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I typically work for the private sector as in private companies. So to me this came as a surprise. But that is a company rather than a corporation.

    129. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      You having no idea what my point is ties in very closely with you saying contradictory things consecutive posts, and even contradictory things within the same post. I think you need to slow down both when reading and when writing.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    130. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by Palshife · · Score: 1

      What? Houses and real estate are the same thing. I don't know what a "bank investment" is. 401k isn't an investment.

      Research fixed income instruments. If your goal is to get a nice return over your lifetime, get into treasury bonds and just ride the compounding interest. One lesson we learned from the most recent economic disaster was to know what you're investing in. Mortgage backed securities fall into the category of fixed income. Now we are reminded to be skeptics.

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    131. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by bberens · · Score: 1

      Orlando FCU offers 0.25% on their share savings account. My bank offers a savings account rate of 0.05%. Yes it's true that OFCU offers 5x the earnings, but 0.2% growth is not even worth making a phone call. I would make more money picking up change I normally pass on the ground.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    132. Re:I will be closing my BOA account.... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      proof enough?

      Nope. It reads like a conspiracy theory. Claims of "it happened to me" with something that would be easily verifiable by millions of people, but without enough information to check it. Go ahead, name the institution. Otherwise, everyone reading this should assume you are lying.

  4. leaked? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Reportedly the information Wikileaks was set to disclose about a particular bank back from December, "a massive batch of internal Bank of America emails" has been leaked.

    Is this saying that Wikileaks' information was leaked by a third party?

    As for bank foreclosure fraud, we've known for a year or more that banks have been doing that. A common case is that all the shady asset-juggling left things in a state that no one knows who actually has the rights to it, so the evictions are rushed through without proper legal scrutiny, or even on the basis of forged documents.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:leaked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      If Wikileaks has something, this isn't it. These docs were directly leaked to ANON.

      BTW, I'm a total luddite but occasionally hang out in Anon's IRC channel, you should too, its not like its hard to sign on.

      And now I'm on the terrorist watchlist and a botnet.

    2. Re:leaked? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      If this is all WL had on BoA I can see why they didn't want to reveal it, the hype they built up was worth more to them than what was in the leak.

      Coming soon, find out what color the sky is and what fire is like (and something sinister about water)!

    3. Re:leaked? by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      BTW, I'm a total luddite but occasionally hang out in Anon's IRC channel

      Citizen, please place your hands in the yellow circles and await a law enforcement action. Thank you.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:leaked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is different information, not the info that WikiLeaks reportedly has.

    5. Re:leaked? by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      If Wikileaks has something, this isn't it. These docs were directly leaked to ANON.

      Right. Because what was leaked to Wikileaks couldn't get leaked to any other sources in the world. Not ever.

      BTW, I'm a total luddite but occasionally hang out in Anon's IRC channel, you should too, its not like its hard to sign on.

      Bashing my head against a wall is even easier and I suspect a very similar experience.

      And now I'm on the terrorist watchlist and a botnet.

      Can you spot the Fed? Bet you can't.

    6. Re:leaked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Becuase only Anon (as distinct from us Anyonymous Cowards) could be stupid enough to go public while the rest of the world watches Japan try to stop some nuke plants from melting down and find the thousands and thousands of bodies in the tsunami rubble, all while hoping the usual 1 magnitude lower after shock doesn't happen...

      Not being able to generate publicity is certainly not one of wikileak's failings.

    7. Re:leaked? by euphemistic · · Score: 1
      Well, I went from the article which alluded to it being the leak Assange was sitting on:

      It looks like the hacker group, which frequents online message board 4chan, made good on a promise Wikileaks founder Julian Assange made several months ago.

      In retrospect the word "perhaps" would have been better than "reportedly" because it really is quite the assumption, and I probably should have outright ignored any sentence that starts with "the hacker group" as a matter of principle. In my defense, I had just polished off a bottle of wine at the time of writing it. Sorry for the lack of clarity though.

  5. Woman dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If there is any connection with this to the women being shot and killed a few hours ago at Bank of America, I would had to see that connection not be made.

    Simple Google News search will get you the links.

    And here is a better link than the one posted (provides screenshots and better context of th conversation):
    http://bankofamericasuck.com/03/13/ex-bank-of-ameica-employee-can-prove-mortgage-fraud-part-1

    1. Re:Woman dead. by xMrFishx · · Score: 1

      Oh that's interesting. Quick find here http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=14244920 but there must be more elsewhere.

    2. Re:Woman dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20110314/NEWS01/103140331/Woman-shot-dead-Lansing-bank-branch

  6. let's see by fredan · · Score: 1
    1. Re:let's see by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      About the same. You see, screwing people over for profits makes for a more appealing investment. Sucks to be the customer, however.

  7. Doesn't matter anymore by Moof123 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    We've seen too many times over in the last decade (or three) that these powerful interests are pretty darn immune. Now and then someone high up either pisses off the rest, or is thrown under the bus and the perception of justice is maintained, thus muting the pitchforks long enough to snub any momentum. Sadly these guys could be found shooting orphaned kids to clear out foreclosed houses and they'd still get away with blaming it on "paperwork" or some such BS.

    So, yeah, great, another treasure trove reminding me just how rigged our "free" society is, and another false circus to watch work through the worthless media system. More depression. More pointlessness. Take your loaf of bread home and feign thankfulness that the power elite have let you eat for another day.

    1. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In their defense, they have invested a LOT of money in buying off Congress. It's only fair they get a return on that investment. That's the free market at work.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      This is exactly how I feel too about our current gov. system, as long as palms remain greased no one is held accountable.
      I would love to have some few disclosures about who got hit, to then be able to mount up a major class action lawsuit, of which maybe some of the family members of people in high places would be a part of....that way not only would there be a big media frenzy, you would actually see this go further to court, as those said politicians families who were hit, would not go unrecognized.

      but this alas, is merely a dream...

    3. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh. I know you're trying for humorous sarcasm here, but how did we ever get to the point where buying government interference is considered a part of a free market?

    4. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 1

      No. It's corruption and Lassiez Faire.

    5. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, thats Truthiness!

    6. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      It's the corporations' money. They should be free to spend it however they choose. Even the Supreme Court agrees.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Sigh. I know you're trying for humorous sarcasm here, but how did we ever get to the point where buying government interference is considered a part of a free market?

      Wrong question. The right question: how do we get away from buying government influence as a way of affecting markets? I feel the answer is staring us in the face.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    8. Re:Doesn't matter anymore by haxney · · Score: 1

      It's no longer a free market when there are such huge returns on rent seeking from the government. If the government is granting particular companies or sectors of the economy (like housing) special favors, you are no longer in a Laissez Faire situation.

      Everyone agrees that regulatory capture is bad, and if it is present, you no longer have a free market. Where a lot of people disagree is on what to do about it; either reduce the "regulatory" or reduce the "capture."

  8. Where's the beef? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    From reading batch #1 of the e-mails, it seems that a batch of letters were sent out in error and the company did not want those letters being linked to the loans. Of course the e-mails don't mention enough details. but it sure sounds like the insurrance company sent out a hundred letters claiming that homeowners didn't have insurance, and threatening to impose forced placement insurance (Balboa's business). Then Balboa realized it was in error and asked BofA to remove the incorrect letters from the loan files so that BofA employees wouldn't get confused and think that the homeowners had loan problems.

    Its misguided and a dumb idea, but not some great criminal conspiracy. The rest of the Wikileaks post is a polemic against the american banking system, which shows that they have no real interest in outing fraud and corruption, but merely want to be an annoyance to hurt the bankers.

    1. Re:Where's the beef? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rest of the Wikileaks post

      Is it really a wikileaks post? I thought the title says "Anonymous" leaks.

  9. If you want to learn more by MikeRT · · Score: 2, Informative

    Read the Market Ticker. Seriously. It is probably the most insightful site I've seen on the scope of the fraud being waged against the American public. In particular, note the number of times Bank of America or "Bank of America employees" get referenced in behavior that sounds more like it should be happening in Zimbabwe than the US.

    1. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The link replies by:

      "Banned IP Address
      This IP address is barred from all access to the forum.

      Either this address is associated with an anonymous proxy service of some kind, or it has been flagged as belonging to or being used by someone who has abused the forum.

      If you are attempting to use something like TOR to access the forum, turn it off; we do not permit the use of these proxies to access the forum.

      If you are not using any sort of proxy and believe you have gotten this message in error, send email to "info@denninger.net" and, if you get a spam intercept bounce, follow the instructions returned to you. Include enough information to identify yourself, including your login ID on the forum, and we will investigate and get back to you.

      Thank you
      Tickerforum Management
      "

    2. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first story on that site has a Godwin right at the start. There may be good coverage, but damn.

    3. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This could get ugly for BOA. Get that in front of a judge and they could say things like 'you dont know if you own it so they do not owe you money'. Do that a few thousand times...

    4. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the Market Ticker. Seriously. It is probably the most insightful site I've seen on the scope of the fraud being waged against the American public. In particular, note the number of times Bank of America or "Bank of America employees" get referenced in behavior that sounds more like it should be happening in Zimbabwe than the US.

      Read the Market Ticker. Seriously. It is probably the most insightful site I've seen on the scope of the fraud being waged against the American public. In particular, note the number of times Bank of America or "Bank of America employees" get referenced in behavior that sounds more like it should be happening in Zimbabwe than the US.

      Red some posts, he sounds like a tea-party nut in some posts, in others not so much.

    5. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There may be some good information buried in that site, but given that the latest post on it compares Obama to Hitler, well, I didn't bother. You may want to branch out a bit.

    6. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I clicked on the link and it's some nutball rant about Obama, gun control, and Hitler. Fail.

    7. Re:If you want to learn more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please do not forget this one!

      http://www.bearfactsspecialistreport.com/

  10. Russia? by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wikileaks is sitting on all sorts of good stuff about Russia. Why does Assange not release that?

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Russia? by advocate_one · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wikileaks is sitting on all sorts of good stuff about Russia. Why does Assange not release that?

      The gangsters in charge of Russia really do have no scruples when it comes to eliminating inconvenient people...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    2. Re:Russia? by Duradin · · Score: 3, Funny

      I would guess Russia has many ways of making it worthwhile to not release it. Probably very elemental ways, Au or Po.

    3. Re:Russia? by trollertron3000 · · Score: 0

      Israel too.

      --
      Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
    4. Re:Russia? by pla · · Score: 1

      Wikileaks is sitting on all sorts of good stuff about Russia. Why does Assange not release that?

      Because the mob (and by extension, the Russian "government") doesn't even pretend to "prosecute" you, they just pull you into an unmarked white van, torture you, and dump your corpse in a ditch.

    5. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or Pb.

    6. Re:Russia? by muyla · · Score: 1

      How would they poison someone with gold? It would be easier to see them trying to buy someone out with Polonium than with gold!

    7. Re:Russia? by msauve · · Score: 1

      Polonium? ITYM Pb.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    8. Re:Russia? by Kosi · · Score: 1

      Obvious solution: take the Au, buy sufficient security with it and release the material nonetheless.

      Or just leak it anonymously to every Woodward-like journalist you can find.

    9. Re:Russia? by Kosi · · Score: 1

      Because the mob (and by extension, the Russian "government") doesn't even pretend to "prosecute" you, they just pull you into an unmarked white van, torture you, and dump your corpse in a ditch.

      That only differs in the last part from what some of your three letter agencies do. OK, maybe their vans have a different color, too.

    10. Re:Russia? by Duradin · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's the beauty of Russia's style: take their gold, hire all the security you want, but one morning you'll find they Po'd in your cornflakes.

    11. Re:Russia? by Sique · · Score: 1

      No. Po. The most prominent case of someone being poisoned by the russian secret service in the recent years was a Polonium poisoning.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    12. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only semi-trolling here, but releasing information censored by a corrupt government with no freedom of speech seems to me to be closer to wikileaks stated purpose than releasing diplomatic communications or editorializing ("collateral murder") leaks about the military of a country with strong freedom of speech laws....

      setting aside everything else, you can't seriously say that assange and wikileaks don't have some sort of vendetta against the US. I can't really see any reason for this (ie to hate on the US/concentrate on and thoroughly publicize these leaks as opposed to leaks about other governments/organizations) other than

      1) It's safe, despite what various people keep spouting the US will take no legal action against assange and the cia will not risk extra-legal action
      2) It's popular to hate on the US since the entire goddamn world seems to have forgotten about what we did between 1935 and 1955 (wartime aid to allies before we joined, pressure on the western front against Germany, taking care of the entire fucking pacific theater essentially alone, massive aid to europe after the war to rebuild....)

    13. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks is sitting on all sorts of good stuff about Russia.

      And just how do you know that? I don't recall anyone from wikileaks making such a claim.
      I sincerely doubt you are personally responsible for leaking anything about Russia (or anywhere else for that matter).

      So sounds to me like you are just grandstanding.

    14. Re:Russia? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Alexander Litvinenko. Look him up.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    15. Re:Russia? by JamesP · · Score: 1

      You forgot Pb. Or maybe good old Fe

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    16. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Russia is not America, and Assange hates America.

    17. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you wondered why the Cornflakes-rooster is green ^^

    18. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the mob (and by extension, the Russian "government") doesn't even pretend to "prosecute" you, they just pull you into an unmarked white van, torture you, and dump your corpse in a ditch.

      That only differs in the last part from what some of your three letter agencies do. OK, maybe their vans have a different color, too.

      You seriously still believe that if the SELECT NAME FROM GOV_AGENCIES WHERE COUNTRY="US" are too incompetent to kill one man if they really really wanted to? That they're somehow smart enough and powerful enough to come up with reasons to prosecute him but are magically and/or conveniently too stupid to "disappear" him and not make it look like an accident, and THAT'S the only thing stopping them from doing so? Seriously?

      Methinks you need to adjust your tinfoil hat. Your conspiracy theories are starting to contradict each other.

    19. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he knew what he meant.

    20. Re:Russia? by not-my-real-name · · Score: 1
      --
      un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
    21. Re:Russia? by jackbird · · Score: 1

      I think the GP is referring to high-velocity lead poisioning, the most prominent symptom of which is hydrostatic shock and organ failure/dispersion.

    22. Re:Russia? by Sique · · Score: 1

      I know, but the greater something parent was referring to the Litvinenko case.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    23. Re:Russia? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      What? Australia or Poland?

      Yeah, I doubt that any Au was involved. It was likely somebody was a name dropper: Litvinenko. :)
      And yes, I know that Po is not poland, but nothing else was close.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    24. Re:Russia? by richlv · · Score: 2

      any sources for "Wikileaks is sitting on all sorts of good stuff about Russia." ?

      --
      Rich
    25. Re:Russia? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Nope, just in your tea, when you had some with an old friend.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    26. Re:Russia? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      How would they poison someone with gold?

      That's easy - you melt it down and pour into them.

      (s/gold/copper/, it was a standard punishment for forgery in Russia up until late 17th century)

    27. Re:Russia? by kikito · · Score: 1

      They are waiting for the Karma from Pearl Harbour to strike him instead.

    28. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here rich, let me google that for you.
      I thought that we were past this kind of intellectual laziness here. I guess not.

    29. Re:Russia? by nimbius · · Score: 1

      because wikileaks exposing corrupt dictatorial governments isnt interesting if they're already widely understood to be corrupt, and dictatorial.

      going after america is far more useful, because as we're told on the news the land of the free and home of the brave is fair and balanced for anyone to have their fair share at becoming a billionaire.

      Wikileaks challenging the "america is right" assertion is far more important than wikileaks reminding us tyrants are still tyrants. wikileaks is correcting our understanding of american government; that between the soviet union and the united states, very few differences remain.

      --
      Good people go to bed earlier.
    30. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also don't have any borders. If you piss them off, they will come to you and stir polonium 210 into your tea when you're not looking. Or, they'll come to your apartment and kill you in your elevator. Or, if they really want to make an example of you they will straight up shoot you in the face on the street in broad daylight.

    31. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Assange sits on good stuff about Russia that he won't release, therefore he shouldn't tell anything about BoA either."

      Insightful, my ass. Are you retarded? And is that the smell of sockpuppets?

      The mere fact that you can't - or won't, I don't know - do something about all the crooks in the world, is not a reason to not do something about those you can - or want to. Crooks are still crooks, even if people exist who are just as bad - or worse - elsewhere.

    32. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Checking your facts, and protecting your sources, can be a lot more difficult there. Wikileaks has shown real morals in verifying their materials before publication.

    33. Re:Russia? by Kosi · · Score: 1

      In this case, *sufficient* security would include a complete new identity and loads of fake evidence pointing to other people.

    34. Re:Russia? by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1

      Wikileaks is sitting on all sorts of good stuff about Russia. Why does Assange not release that?

      Well, if you're going to equate WikiLeaks with Assange then the obvious answer is, "Because he's in jail."

      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    35. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd worry more about Pb.

    36. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A claim like that is all the better for a bit of evidence.

    37. Re:Russia? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Hey, if only we had a way to truly anonymously leak documents to a world-wide network (one might call it a web) of computers.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    38. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's unfair, they do too pretend to prosecute you.

    39. Re:Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't you wonder how wikileaks insurance works?

      Anything bad happen to them, the russian threat is worthless...

    40. Re:Russia? by Fluffeh · · Score: 1

      Seeing as you are only semi-trolling, I will only semi-reply.

      World War 2 started in 1939.
      Sep 1940 - The US passed a conscription bill.
      Mar 1941 - US Passes the Lend-Lease act.
      Jun 1941 - US Freezes German and Italian assests in the US.
      Jul 1941 - US Freezes Japanese assets in the US.
      Aug 1941 - US introduces oil embargo against aggressor states.
      Dec 1941 - Japan bombs Pearl Harbour.
      Dec 1941 - US declares war on Japan.
      Dec 1941 - Hitler declares war on US.
      Jan 26th 1941 - First US forces arrive in Britain.

      The next war the US was in was Korea (1950-1953).

      The US involvement in the war prior to having a serious surprise attack on it's own base was freezing assests and oil embargos. C'Mon, seriously. You didn't win the war or lead the charge. You were essentially snoozing until someone stubbed your toe.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
  11. No one investigating, no one going to jail by RichMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The governement administration was pretty quick to hand them money to keep going and the oversight seems to be uninterested in putting people in jail.
    If you pickpocket a $100 store item expect to go to jail. If you force thousands into bankruptcy and put several nations into financial stress you will have no problem collecting your yearly bonus pay.

    It seems to me we need a crack down on white collar crime.

    Stop jailing people for grams of pot and start jailing people for ((( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money))).

    1. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      " ((( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money)))."

      Fraud?

    2. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by UninformedCoward · · Score: 1

      (((Institutionalized embezzlement)))

    3. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by benjfowler · · Score: 2

      The police only really exists to enforce economic rights. Generally only the economic rights of the rich and powerful.

      Seen in this light, law enforcement priorities make perfect sense.

    4. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

      (((Institutionalized embezzlement)))

      It has gone far beyond institutionalized embezzlement. It is lapping up the shores of Cleptocracy.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    5. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if you smoked a little less pot you wouldn't have trouble coming up with words. Just saying.

    6. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's the old remark: "If you owe the bank a hundred thousand and can't pay, you have a problem. If you owe the bank a hundred million and can't pay, the bank has a problem."

      It is apparent that the same idea applies on a higher level: If your bank has loaned out a hundred million and can't get it back, you have a problem. If your bank has loaned out a hundred billion and can't get it back, the government and the central bank have a problem.

    7. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Stop jailing people for grams of pot and start jailing people for ((( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money))).

      Well, there's your problem. It's not easy to prosecute someone for conduct that you can't even find a name for, let alone describe, document, and gather evidence of.

    8. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you people (US) have something in your constitution that basicly says:

      If we get to corrupt, grab your article 2 weaponry and come kill us.

    9. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The governement administration was pretty quick to hand them money to keep going and the oversight seems to be uninterested in putting people in jail.
      If you pickpocket a $100 store item expect to go to jail. If you force thousands into bankruptcy and put several nations into financial stress you will have no problem collecting your yearly bonus pay.

      It seems to me we need a crack down on white collar crime.

      Stop jailing people for grams of pot and start jailing people for ((( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money))).

      I believe the term is MBA.

    10. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Tom · · Score: 1

      Surprised? It's not really a modern thing, though we had a time between the various revolutions and today when politics at least made a pretense of being honestly interested in the common good.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    11. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      financial scammers, crooks, thieves?

    12. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not sure you are aware of this, but many people that commit white collar crime are white/wealthy and many people that smoke crack are poor/black. Investigating white collar crime is a slippery slope. Whats next? Calling out non-Muslims for being terrorists? Calling out a white presidential candidate for being born outside of the US?

      A slippery slope indeed!

    13. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by maxume · · Score: 0

      Thousands of those people put themselves into bankruptcy by purchasing homes that they couldn't even make the payments on, let alone afford.

      The banks were certainly complicit, along with ratings agencies and lots of other people, but a big chunk of the people that went into bankruptcy chose to take on loans that they could not afford in an attempt to make easy money, no one forced them to do anything.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    14. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop jailing people for grams of pot and start jailing people for ((( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money))).

      "for being an executive in the financial industry" should cover it pretty well. The few false positives we can safely attribute to statistical error.

    15. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (((Misappropriation)))

    16. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word you are looking for is "embezzlement". I am absolutely with you on jailing people for grams of pot. I am a professional who is subject to drug testing. I can't tell you how much it burns me up that I can't have a joint on the weekends, or that I might actually go to jail if I want to light up & share some smoke with friends at a concert.

    17. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      In large measure, the money was loaned out to unqualified people because the banks could package the loans up and sell bonds backed by the rather risky mortgages. If the bonds had been rated as junk bonds with high interest rates (commesurate with the risk) we wouldn't have the current problems. No, the bonds were rated AAA - investment grade.

      The real problem today and into the future is all the folks like pension funds that invested their money in these investment grade bonds that are in fact junk and are going to default. So where does that leave the Small Town, OK Teacher's Pension Fund? Bankrupt. The second wave of the bond defaults hasn't really hit yet. When it does things are likely to get a lot worse.

    18. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by maxume · · Score: 1

      Right, which is why I said that the banks and ratings agencies were complicit. That the ratings agencies were using rubber stamps is a problem, but it is also a problem that the people buying the paper weren't doing any actual research, they were just looking for evidence of a rubber stamp.

      So given how systemic the problems were, it is tiresome to see talk of the banks forcing people into bankruptcy for profits, as if that is all that happened.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    19. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by HiThere · · Score: 1

      No, that's the Declaration of Independence, and had no formal legal authority. (Wonder why?) The second amendment to the constitution is supposed to say that we have the right to keep sufficient weaponry, but generations of casuistry have corrupted the meaning, so now it's generally interpreted as meaning only officially organized groups of people have the right to weapons. (Not at all what it originally meant.)

      The real problem is, when there was a problem with the constitution, there was a procedure that was supposed to be used to modify it. But it was too much bother. So the custom became that we would just reinterpret what it said until it meant what we wanted.
      Example:
      The US can only declare war with the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. So we don't call various military actions wars. (I'd prefer admitting that they were wars, and just saying that we weren't declaring them, which we essentially never do, but that's not the explanation used.)

      They only get called wars in the popular press and in history books, etc. Never officially. The Vietnam War wasn't a war. The Korean War wasn't a war. Don't know about the Spanish-American War. World War II was officially admitted to be a war, but it the last one, and I don't know that we ever declared it. (Well, we *were* attacked. So perhaps declaration was superfluous.)

      You wouldn't think it would be that hard to get 66 people to agree that something needed to be done if it really did need to be don, would you. The Vietnam war had a hard time scraping up 50 votes for a resolution that was so weaselly worded that just about nobody who voted for it thought it was authorizing war in Vietnam. Even after the fact.

      OTOH, perhaps I *am* in favor of the draft, seeing what "The Volunteer Army" has lead to. Perhaps if people were being drafted to fight there'd be more resistance by people with enough power to significantly resist. (Still, I never *did* get an acceptable explanation of what we were doing in Vietnam. So maybe not.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    20. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by martyros · · Score: 1

      Stop jailing people for grams of pot and start jailing people for ((( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money))).

      Yeah, when all of this "too big to fail" stuff was going on, I thought: If an action has such an impact that the government has to bail you out, then that action should be criminal. People should be going to jail for this.

      Then I thought, ideally, the shareholders of the corporation, because it was for their benefit ("maximize shareholder value") that all of this evil was done. If that was the law, then the company's goal would consist of two things: (1) maximize shareholder value, while (2) not sending the shareholders to jail.

      OK, I realize this is too extreme to be practical. But it would change an awful lot in our system.

      --

      TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.

    21. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      Thousands of those people put themselves into bankruptcy by purchasing homes that they couldn't even make the payments on, let alone afford.

      That happens every year. There wasn't anything caused by the foreclosure rate. In fact, when the shit hit the fan, the foreclosure rate was on the rise, but still below historic norms. Blaming it on expected and predicted foreclosures was a lie invented by the people that committed fraud to cause the crisis. When you blame black people in the US, the tag sticks, even though it's a lie. White people in the US love to blame the minorities for everything that happens, especially when the problems were actually caused by rich old white men committing fraud.

      The banks were certainly complicit, along with ratings agencies and lots of other people, but a big chunk of the people that went into bankruptcy chose to take on loans that they could not afford in an attempt to make easy money, no one forced them to do anything.

      Yeah, but no more than usual, despite the lies to the contrary (at least at the point where the "crisis" began). The problem was the loan brokers loaning money to people they knew could never pay it back, lying to the people taking the loan about it, then lying to the other financial institutions when selling the loans to them. Then, the banks buying the loans, lied again when bundling the loans. Then these loans which required multiple old rich white people lying on multiple levels to form the fraudulent securities had their normal risk fraudulently concealed. Why was it called subprime? Because the subprime loans defaulted at expected subprime rates, which is higher than other loans. But when you lied multiple times to bundle "subprime" loans into A-level securities when they are really C or maybe B at best when properly hedged (and they weren't, not even close) and then borrow against the value of the A security when it's really a C security, when the default rates are finally noticed, everyone resets the value to a C security they really are and trillions of dollars disappear.

      The only reason they lasted that long is that the housing bubble depressed the normal subprime default rate (no reason to default when you could sell it for a gain, and even if you did, the bank would still get 100% money out, so it wasn't a negative default). It wasn't "high" default rates that triggered it. It was rates well within the normal and expected levels that revealed that high-risk loans were fraudulently bundled into "premium" securities. It was 100% caused by rich old white male bankers (well, not all are old white males, but the vast majority are). And, since the rich old white men run the country and get to name things, they named it so they could blame it on poor blacks.

    22. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by maxume · · Score: 1

      Not understanding the terms of a loan is not an excuse to default on it, it is a reason to not sign it.

      So sure, people were lied to and signed loans based on those lies, but that doesn't free them of all responsibility. "Oh, but they didn't understand what the payments would be" means they were pretty foolish to sign the loan. "Oh, but they were told the value of the home would go up and they could sell it" means they knew they couldn't afford it buy took a risk to make easy money.

      No, those people didn't create the financial crisis, but the idea that the only problem with those loans is that the bankers were taking advantage of people is a non-starter for me. And I'm aware that there are also many people who didn't do anything wrong that have ended up with loans bigger than their houses, and then many of the people in that group have also lost their jobs, and thus their houses. The fact that those people exists doesn't absolve the ones that were scheming to make easy money.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    23. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      The Supreme Court has recently opined that the 2nd Amendment confers an individual right to owning a firearm.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    24. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Not understanding the terms of a loan is not an excuse to default on it, it is a reason to not sign it.

      Who are you arguing with? You are standing on your soapbox and talking bad about people when no one ever said anything to the contrary. I talk about other points, not addressing that, and you bring it up again. Are you looking for a fight on it? Or do you think that pointing out that the statistics of loans, which expect foreclosures, somehow means that those who are foreclosed against did nothing wrong? Or even then, why do you consider it "wrong" to be foreclosed against?

      You do realize that most people who file for bankruptcy claim unexpected medical bills for their reason, right? Things they couldn't control. Oh wait, are you going to blame them for not having insurance? Then that would make you an ignorant prick, since most of them did actually have medical insurance.

      So I'm curious, why are you bringing up unrelated things multiple times and serving it up like you are looking for a fight? You sound like the racist pricks that named it "subprime crisis" and blamed Fannie May.

      So sure, people were lied to and signed loans based on those lies, but that doesn't free them of all responsibility. "Oh, but they didn't understand what the payments would be" means they were pretty foolish to sign the loan. "Oh, but they were told the value of the home would go up and they could sell it" means they knew they couldn't afford it buy took a risk to make easy money.

      No one claimed they were innocent. They were the cause of the foreclosures. You, however are ignoring the fact that foreclosures didn't cause the crisis.

      No, those people didn't create the financial crisis, but the idea that the only problem with those loans is that the bankers were taking advantage of people is a non-starter for me.

      Oh, so they didn't cause the crisis, but if I don't blame them, then you'll not listen to anything I have to say. Got it. Like I said, racist prick is how you come across. Foreclosures have happened since the first loans were given out so many thousands of years ago that no one knows for sure when loans started. They are expected. If they happen at an unexpected rate, then the bankers screwed up in giving loans, especially in this case where so many loans were new and fresh. But the foreclosure rate was well within the normal rate. And yet the foreclosures, which were expected and planned on, are being blamed for causing the mess. How can that be? If you can tell me how foreclosures happening at the expected rate causes a massive financial meltdown without the bankers creating the mess, then I'll throw more weight on the people defaulting. The individual defaulters are responsible for not meeting the terms of their loan. I'm not defending that. But it's irrelevant to the issue. The bankers asserted that they were making loans of a specific risk. That indicates a default rate they were expecting. When they default rate was reached, the system failed. That it required defaults is irrelevant. The bankers built the system themselves 100%. They defined the parameters they used. They used them. They system failed. Putting any blame on the defaulters for the system crashing is absurd. Yes, they are bad people for not paying their debts. But it's irrelevant to the issue. The system was designed by bankers to benefit bankers, and when the system was operating within the parameters designed by the bankers, it failed.

      And I'm aware that there are also many people who didn't do anything wrong that have ended up with loans bigger than their houses, and then many of the people in that group have also lost their jobs, and thus their houses. The fact that those people exists doesn't absolve the ones that were scheming to make easy money.

      Who was scheming to make easy money? The bankers are the only ones on that list. There were some people who mis

    25. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by maxume · · Score: 1

      Where in my first comment do I say anything about foreclosures causing the crisis?

      The reason my second comment "brings things up again" is because you cast the first one wrongly and I decided to respond. In the first comment, I was responding narrowly to the OP stating that the bankers drove people to bankruptcy. Looking at it, I suppose my comment doesn't really contribute much to the thread, he wasn't insisting that all the bankruptcies during the crisis were caused by the bankers, just stating that they did cause thousands of them.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    26. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by maxume · · Score: 1

      One other thing, I don't know the statistics, but I would assume that the majority of sub-prime borrowers are white (like me), so if I am being racist towards sum-prime borrowers, it is because of that assumption, not because of some other racist view.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    27. Re:No one investigating, no one going to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ( some smart saying I can't think of that means investment people who steal money)

      republicans?

  12. Big deal by rsilvergun · · Score: 0

    People were still falling behind on their mortgages. They might have kept their homes for a few more months, but that 'might' is enough grey area for BofA to wiggle out of. Maybe if this effected the rich (like Bernie Maddoff Did) it would matter. This'll fizzle out.

    I mean, we've got a Supreme Court Justice on the take and no one gives a flying rat's @$$. This is small potatoes...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  13. I have faith by acehole · · Score: 1

    That there will be a bit of noise from the rabble about this but after a week, this will be gone and nothing would be done about it.

    Such is the way the system works, throw enough money at something and it will go away.

    --
    Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
    1. Re:I have faith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, a small wave rocks the boat, but alot of small ones will eventually resonate enough to flip it over. There's only so much room under the carpet before people start to notice. Once you make enough people aware of a potential problem, they'll start actually looking for signs instead of ignoring them as part of the "oh it'll go away" ideas we've had put upon us. Currently the m£dia is something of a powerful entity being brought out by those with deeper pockets, but even the media will eventually realise the lobby behind it has nothing to back it up besides more printed money and may turn against the hand that feeds it.

    2. Re:I have faith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look over there! A commie!

  14. Re:I'm done with fraudulent banks, bitcoin from no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoin does not prevent hording.

    It will suffer the same fate as any currency based on a finite resource (like gold): over time, the money is filtered to the people who save, until everyone is poor except a select few people who have everything.

  15. Mirror? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The website is still down. Is there anywhere a mirror of the leak? torrent DHT Link?

  16. Alt-Site for emails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sites are going up and down right now due to traffic I think. I read the emails here: http://www.it-networks.org/2011/03/14/blackmonday-ex-bank-of-america-employee-can-prove-mortgage-fraud-part-1/ though there are no doubt alot more mirrors available.

  17. As a BoA customer... by FlapHappy · · Score: 2

    I'm just waiting for the "Damage Control Fee" to show up on my next month's statement. Then I'll have to pay an "Account Closure Fee" as well as a "Don't Let Your Ass Hit The Door On The Way Out Fee".

    1. Re:As a BoA customer... by LostOne · · Score: 2

      You forgot the "Fee Fee", unless they're already charging you that one?

      --

      If it works in theory, try something else in practice.
    2. Re:As a BoA customer... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      That would be the "expected fee" fee which covers the work required in preparation to charge you a fee to handle the work of charging you a fee.

  18. not necessarily. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The loan officer/VP at my local credit union was a twit who put personal opinion above credit worthiness. Some people say good, but that can work against you when she still thinks of you as a kid.

    I'm so glad she's gone, now maybe I can get a reasonable line of credit.

    1. Re:not necessarily. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If your local credit union is the only one, then find another one that you're eligible for which is a member of shared branching. That way you can use your credit union anywhere. My credit union BMI is a member, and I haven't been to a BMI branch in years. Oh yeah 9% interest on my credit card, and they said "don't worry about it" for my credit card payments when I deployed to Iraq. No late fees, no interest, just called once a week until I got home.

    2. Re:not necessarily. by cduffy · · Score: 1

      If your local credit union is the only one, then find another one that you're eligible for which is a member of shared branching. That way you can use your credit union anywhere. My credit union BMI is a member, and I haven't been to a BMI branch in years. Oh yeah 9% interest on my credit card, and they said "don't worry about it" for my credit card payments when I deployed to Iraq. No late fees, no interest, just called once a week until I got home.

      My credit union story isn't quite as awesome as yours, but it's along the same vein -- when an extended warranty company refused to refund the "refundable" policy I'd bought through my credit union on financing my car, the CU refunded the cost of the policy out of their own pocket even though the fine print explicitly protected them from needing to do so.

      They've also been able to bend policy on a few occasions (ie. allowing that car loan slightly below their usual minimum down payment). It's great dealing with people who are empowered rather than faceless corporate drones.

  19. Yes, there will be reporocussions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Members of the Senate Finance Committee will hem and haw and grandstand.

    BOA will make some lamo PR statements from the spawn of Satan that PR and Marketing people are.

    BOA will then make some "campaign" contributions to the Senators and after a few weeks, the public will have forgotten it all because the powers that be will come up with some distraction issue. A distraction issue is something that really isn't important to this country's well being: going after Muslims (Sen .King), security, non-existent terrorism threats ("possible threats as they call them"), and if everything else fails, bring up some sort of abortion issue or religion issue. Abortion is a great way to distract the hoi paloi.

    People are stupid.

    1. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by Teun · · Score: 1
      You seem to forget many international institutions were hurt by the collapse of these fraudulent mortgages.

      And they won't just let this disappear.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      BOA will then make some "campaign" contributions to the Senators and after a few weeks, the public will have forgotten it all because the powers that be will come up with some distraction issue.

      The powers that be won't expend an iota of effort to come up with a distraction - they know damn well that the public's attention span is nearly non-existent. Look at all the coverage in the last few days here on Slashdot about internet connectivity in Libya and the rest of the 'Jasmine revolution'.
       
      Oh, wait - there hasn't been any, yet the revolution grinds on while the magpie has moved on to hourly updates on Japan. By the end of the week, or early next, another shiny will come along and Japan will drop off the radar too.

    3. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course the Senate Financt Committee has no oversight of banks, or mortgages, or anything else related to the issues highlighted by the leaked emails.

    4. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      The only way that will work is if BoA's credit rating gets downgraded.

      Good luck with that one - the agencies that do the rating aren't the same folks who got screwed by buying toxic debts. :/

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      So, you're one of those people that thinks vote buying and distraction issues are an American thing.

      Over here, we have hearings on "steroid use among professional athletes". Most of the rest of the world just has a soccer match.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    6. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by ALeavitt · · Score: 4, Funny

      hoi paloi

      People are stupid.

      This is the most delicious kind of irony.

      --
      This sig has been stolen. Return it to its original user for a reward.
    7. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      If you can't play by the rules change the rules.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    8. Re:Yes, there will be reporocussions. by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Depending on the crisis ongoing in the US steroid use prosecution has become(s) en vogue.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  20. You know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because of my situation (green card holder up for renewal in a little less than a year) I am staying way out of the way of these leaks, but it makes me smile that the people at least still have some power.

  21. Herro! Dis Is Shitty Wok! Oh... Wait! by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Herro! Dis is Shitty Bank! Do you want to open a shitty bank account?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Herro! Dis Is Shitty Wok! Oh... Wait! by mind.the.oranges · · Score: 1

      Aaah, harro prease, what are the plans to take over BoA again? I forgot, hahaha.

  22. Re:I'm done with fraudulent banks, bitcoin from no by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

    Let me know how that works for you. Especially when you go to pick up groceries. Or pay your electric bill.

  23. Local Credit Union not always perfect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've been a BoA customer for about 15 years and they've never done me wrong in any way at all. I've recently paid off a car loan thru them, and only have about $2K debt on a BoA credit card account, which I'll be able to pay off to zero once I get my income tax refund. Maybe it's time for me to leave them as soon as the CC is paid off... because I don't like supporting anyone with my business, when their integrity is under such increasingly serious questionability and doubt.

    I've also held savings and checking accounts in a local credit union for many years, and currently have a boat financed thru the credit union.

    About the only thing that's been keeping me from completely closing down my business with BoA has been that BoA has a pretty nice online banking system that I use a lot, and my local credit union has provided almost zilch with their minimalistic online banking website, but they've recently switched to a new provider... all their online banking stuff is outsourced since they're too small to even have an IT department, and since the new provider is one who only does online banking websites for numerous CUs and S&Ls across the nation as their sole business, I'm hoping the new website will be a lot more robust, secure and usable.
    Also the girls who work in my CU are frequently losing or misplacing correspondence (happened twice with me in the past 4 months) , which does worry me a bit, so I'll have to keep a close eye out for that.

  24. Grey market economy by plopez · · Score: 2

    The corruption in the "market" economy (which it isn't) is making me turn more and more to the grey market economy. Bartering and selling goods and services for other needed goods and services with out using conventional financial channels, e.g. bank accounts and credit cards. Cut out the middle man and get off of the grid.Kkeep your "seed money" under the mattress. The mattress is a much safer place than putting into the hands of those thieves.

    I also have run into some small businesses which are refusing to accept credit cards now. The theives at the CC companies not only charge obscene amounts of interest but also charge obscene fees to the merchants for each sale. By cutting out the banks the small businesses actually gain an edge over larger businesses by keeping costs low.

    For the Revolution!

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Grey market economy by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Great lulz when your house burns down and you're left destitute.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:Grey market economy by Dishwasha · · Score: 1

      I actually prefer to keep my money in a safe located behind a painting in the master bedroom. Much less conspicuous that way.

    3. Re:Grey market economy by plopez · · Score: 1

      sorry I got too complicated for you by using a combination of sarcasm and metaphor...... I'll make my use of the English language easier for you next time.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    4. Re:Grey market economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you seen Bitcoin? Economy is already ~$5mil.

      I offer you to check it out on Wikipedia as an alternative to using banks and fiat money. It's free software cryptocurrency being used by many. Current trading volume on the largest exchanger (mtgox) is $50k and 200k BTC (around $200k) was sent by various people in the last 24h.

    5. Re:Grey market economy by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      In my part of the country, the police and firefighters are paid through property taxes...which you can't get out of through bartering.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    6. Re:Grey market economy by X86Daddy · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin is the future you seek.

    7. Re:Grey market economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could always just keep your money in a Credit Union...

    8. Re:Grey market economy by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

      There are at least five interwoven types of economies:

      * Subsistence,
      * Gift,
      * Planned,
      * Exchange, and
      * Theft (not recommended).

      So, there are various other directions you can move than switching from exchanging currency to bartering.

      More on this here by me:
      http://knol.google.com/k/paul-d-fernhout/beyond-a-jobless-recovery/38e2u3s23jer/2

      Or see this video by someone else:
          "Gift Economy: Refuting the Market Logic "
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy4hFVcl6Vo

      --
      A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    9. Re:Grey market economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cash is best and checks work too for the small businesses. I try to pay everything in cash. Sadly allot of business are demanding credit cards and raising costs. In my case we deal mostly in checks. However we take credit cards too (though for the main part of the business which is off-line it is unadvertised). We're even reporting cash transactions to the IRS despite most don't (we've almost never have people pay in cash though... our services cost too much for that).

  25. BoA Leaks by 4Chan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The e-mail are gone...no torrent available...and DDoS on bankofamericasucks page...

    Anybody got a mirror address?

  26. Re:I'm done with fraudulent banks, bitcoin from no by Kosi · · Score: 1

    It's not a problem of what the currency is based on. It's an inherent problem of capitalism itself.

  27. Link? by dimethylxanthine · · Score: 0

    Where's the link to download?...

    1. Re:Link? by zill · · Score: 1, Informative
  28. Incompetence Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    As someone who has worked for a big bank, I can assure you that while there are pockets of AMAZINGLY retarded people that commit blatant fraud, it is mostly just a large group of MOSTLY retarded people committing fraud and not really recognizing that's what they're doing.

    I worked hand in hand with the foreclosure group and I think I can summarize what's really been happening:

    1) Overwhelming Workload + Incompetent Staff = Mistakes
    a) Leads to massive spike in hiring through temporary agencies and the introduction of a much larger group of incompetent people into the process.
    2) Convoluted, counterproductive processes + people who can't use excel spreadsheets = Mistakes
    a) See 1a
    3) Incentive Structure - This one's a bit harder but most banks use production based incentive structures to pay employees beyond their base pay. The more work you do, the more money you make. If it's easier to get rid of a "file" (troubled loan) by tossing it to the foreclosure group and having it roll through that process than it is to help someone save their house, guess what happens. If it takes you an hour to successfully help someone (which it doesn't, it takes days or weeks) or 10 minutes to move their file to foreclosure and therefore out of your stack, and you get paid based on how many files you move out of your stack, guess where all your files go.
    4) Banks DONT LIKE TO RESCIND SALES. It costs them money.

    To me, this is all SUPER old news. I watched this happen in real time for years and the news was always WAY behind on what was happening and WHY. It's not as simple as "banks are greedy and committing fraud/crime." That's certainly a part of it, but not nearly half of it. Realistically it's "There's too much work to do and the people doing it truly don't understand what they're doing"

    It's way easier to recognize what's really happening when you look at how things are done at the bottom. Listening to CEOs and PR reps is a waste of time, they have no idea what's really going on underneath them.

    The problems we have always faced are the result of incompetence, period. More to the point the problem is people.

  29. Re:I'm done with fraudulent banks, bitcoin from no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fiat currency seems to solve the problem better than gold. We can always print more money. We can't print more bitcoins... there is an upper-limit (by design in this case).

    What we need is a system that is BETTER than fiat currency. Bitcoin is a de-evolution, back to a currency based on a limited resource.

  30. Tinfoil hat time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can't help but wonder who's really behind this leak. It smells a LOT like a false flag operation.

    Bank of America has known for months that they're the next major Wikileaks target. Now all of a sudden the material pops up "from Anonymous", in the middle of the Japan earthquake, a HUGE news story - and over the weekend. I tried viewing the site all morning and have been getting 503 errors. If you wanted to bury an inevitable major embarrassment to your company, I think this is how you do it. Wikileaks, for all their faults, would never release this while there were so many other major developing stories.

    1. Re:Tinfoil hat time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless. Anon was trying to hide the humanitarian efforts BofA is initiating to help Japan and its people recover from the multiple tragedies there.

      Smoke and mirrors by Anonymous when their target is doing something for the average person.

    2. Re:Tinfoil hat time... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Wikileaks, for all their faults, would never release this while there were so many other major developing stories.

      And you know this how? Particularly since there practically *isn't* such a thing as time when there aren't other developing major stories.

    3. Re:Tinfoil hat time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can't help but wonder who's really behind this leak. It smells a LOT like a false flag operation.

      Bank of America has known for months that they're the next major Wikileaks target. Now all of a sudden the material pops up "from Anonymous", in the middle of the Japan earthquake, a HUGE news story - and over the weekend. I tried viewing the site all morning and have been getting 503 errors. If you wanted to bury an inevitable major embarrassment to your company, I think this is how you do it. Wikileaks, for all their faults, would never release this while there were so many other major developing stories.

      The primary goal was to collapse the stock market and in consequence the US by adding the Boa leak to the already bad news from Japan. Noticeably they have failed. Hitting BoA itself was a lesser objective in the broader picture.

    4. Re:Tinfoil hat time... by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of silly season? Of course there are times when less stuff is going on and there are few if any major stories. Though I'll give you that the past couple of weeks were back-to-back with major developments. Wikileaks is widely known to take care when and how to release leaks, in fact, above and beyond the sheer infrastructure for anonymous whistleblowing, the public relations "leak" management is really their raison d'etre. Of course it's very debatable if they're really doing a good job of it or if it's a good thing to start with; many people seem to think they should just dump everything they get, possibly after some very light fact-checking and/or editing.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    5. Re:Tinfoil hat time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks, for all their faults, would never release this while there were so many other major developing stories.

      And you know this how? Particularly since there practically *isn't* such a thing as time when there aren't other developing major stories.

      Really... are you that much of a tard that we have to explain it in
      detail to you?

      TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DYING FROM ONE OF THE
      LARGEST DISASTERS IN RECORDED (INSTRUMENT) HISTORY

      is a bit louder in the static of daily news than just about anything else.

      -@|

  31. So how do shorts work? by scubamage · · Score: 1

    Well, obviously this is going to lead to a dip in BoA stocks, so how can we make a profit?

    1. Re:So how do shorts work? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      By buying BoA, because the market is moving 100% counter-intuitively, thanks to the banks. Haven't you noticed?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:So how do shorts work? by jfengel · · Score: 2

      BoA is down today, but not substantially more than the market as a whole.

      If you have an account with a major broker, shorting is trivial: you just sell the stock. It doesn't matter that you don't own it; you just click the box labeled "short sale". You'll need some money in the account to start with, but you actually get to sell it today and enjoy the cash you get from it.

      Note that if the price goes back up, though, your liability is unlimited. Today it's at $14. If it hits $20, your broker is going to be making a polite but very firm phone call that you need to pony up. If it hits $200, you get deeply screwed. I advise against playing this game until you're very aware of how it's played, and are well insulated against the risks.

    3. Re:So how do shorts work? by KermodeBear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You want to sell short. It works like this:

      A) Borrow assets (stock in a company) at the current price.
      B) Wait a period of time.
      C) Return those assets to the original owner at the new current price.
      D) Keep the difference (or lose money).

      Now, if you are shady, you can do what is called "Naked Short Selling", in which you perform this trick with assets that don't actually exist. This American Life did a great episode called Enforcers - the second half deals with Naked Short Selling and describes the process in detail. TAL has done several fantastic episodes on the financial crisis, well worth the time to give them a listen.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    4. Re:So how do shorts work? by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      If that's your entire plan for short-selling, then you forgot:

      E) Loss!

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    5. Re:So how do shorts work? by rbayer · · Score: 1

      Now, if you are shady, you can do what is called "Naked Short Selling", in which you perform this trick with assets that don't actually exist.

      And if you want to do it in a way that won't potentially cost you \infty dollars if the share price goes UP instead of DOWN, you do it by buying a Put Option. It costs you a little in fees vs a naked short (also known as selling a naked call), but the maximum you can lose is the initial fee you pay.

    6. Re:So how do shorts work? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Or just buy some put options.

      It's probably more complicated to use puts to make money than it is to sell short and make money, but the risk is all up front.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:So how do shorts work? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't you typically have a stop order along a short sale to limit risk if the stock decides to go back up? Or isn't that how it works?

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    8. Re:So how do shorts work? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      You certainly could do that, but as far as I know none of the brokers force you to or even go out of their way to recommend it. There are lots of ways to mitigate your risk, and you need to have a strategy thought out before playing leverage games.

    9. Re:So how do shorts work? by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      Now, if you are shady, you can do what is called "Naked Short Selling", in which you perform this trick with assets that don't actually exist.

      Oh, you mean like taking value out of your house in the form
      of a HELOC to fund the short?

      Hey wait a minute, if everyone did that, wouldn't that cause
      some kinda economic crisis?

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
  32. The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Your comment about "this period of history" draws attention away from the fact that the U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. Few in government are on the side of the people. Most of the really powerful in the U.S. government are helping the corrupters.

    For example, see the Rolling Stone article about Goldman Sachs, The Great American Bubble Machine

    The documentary movie Inside Job was nominated for an Oscar. It's an excellent movie about the extreme corruption. NOTHING has been done.

    1. Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      ...And if you think that's bad, consider that the US is the 18th least corrupt out of 180 countries. That is, only 17 places are considered less corrupt. The bad news is that the US has been falling in that ranking, and is the most populous country among the least corrupt 25.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    2. Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to bring facts into the discussion, but the US government is actually one of the least corrupt countries in the entire world. Sure, it's not corruption free, but your hyperbolic claim is wrong:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Map_Index_of_perception_of_corruption_2010.svg

    3. Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then again, when compared to many governments around the world, even 'democratic' ones, US government isn't very corrupt at all.

    4. Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      "perception" is not exactly the same as reality. often it's correlated, but every company has a part of it devoted to managing perception.

    5. Re:The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. by doctor_subtilis · · Score: 1

      I'd say less corrupt and more institutionalized into terrible perspectives and ideas with little forethought or ethics.

  33. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2

    Listening to CEOs and PR reps is a waste of time, they have no idea what's really going on underneath them.

    The top men know exactly what's going on. They have set up the system to be filled with incompetence and overwork because that enables them to get away with defrauding billions from millions.

    The system is broken by design.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  34. Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So now 4chan is a "hacker group"? Seriously, wtf? This is what happens when newfags violate rules 1 & 2. I doubt the majority of idiots on 4chan know how to code "Hello World!", much less qualify for the title "hacker".

  35. Banks.... by chucklebutte · · Score: 0

    Crooked banks around the world will gladly give a loan today, so if you miss a payment they can take your house away.

  36. GET YOUR TORRENTS HERE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    For some reason the torrent on TPB was marked as fake and taken down. Get it here:

    http://www.mediafire.com/?9gig97gio0g3b7b

    Download and seed!

  37. Where's the evidence of corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Looking through the emails, I really can't find the so called damning evidence.
    Are we just taking Anonymous/Wikileaks for their word now? Whatever they say goes?
    And are we just as quick to distrust and denounce the institution we've entrusted with the largest share of our financial security?
    There's irony here Shakespeare would be proud of.

    I'm not going cry foul until I see something truly incriminating. Which may very well exist...but I haven't seen it.

    1. Re:Where's the evidence of corruption? by zill · · Score: 2
      From the last email:

      Hi Peggy,
      I'm just a little concerned about the impact this has on the department and company. Why are we removing all record of this error? We have told Denise Cahen, and there is always going to be the paper trail when one of these sent documents come back, this to me, seems to be a huge red flag for the auditors: example: a scanned document that was mailed to us asking why the letter was received when the letter, albeit erroneous ( this being the letters that went out in error ) the auditor sees the erroneous letter but no SOR trail or scanned doc on the corrected letter is in the SOR and scanned in). What am I missing? This just doesn't seem right to me.

      I don't understand the lingo so much of it is lost to me. However it does seem that at least one person was aware that illegal acts are being committed. Can someone who work in the industry explain some of the the terminology (DTN, Tracksource/Rembrandt,SOR)?

    2. Re:Where's the evidence of corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we just taking Anonymous/Wikileaks for their word now? Whatever they say goes?

      Well, everyone knows that 14 year old script kiddies and Australian high school dropout hackers know more about laws and regulations governing banking than you or I.

    3. Re:Where's the evidence of corruption? by s0litaire · · Score: 2

      Basically "Tracksource/Rembrandt" is the system they use to record mortgage / loan info (i think)

      There was an email before that one you posted saying something to the effect:
      We can't completely remove Mortgage/Load records from the database but we can remove the associated Loan Reference ID, That way any mortgages with no loan associated with it won't show up on an audit.

      There was also a long list of Load ID's to remove from the system...

      --
      Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
    4. Re:Where's the evidence of corruption? by s0litaire · · Score: 1

      Loan not Load...
      spelling fail...

      --
      Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
    5. Re:Where's the evidence of corruption? by s0litaire · · Score: 1

      1. SOR = System of Record
      2.Rembrandt/Tracksource = Insurance tracking systems
      3.DTN = Document Tracking Number..

      --
      Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  38. TORRENT LINK, COME ONE, COME ALL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:TORRENT LINK, COME ONE, COME ALL! by zill · · Score: 1

      Parent seriously need some modding up.

      This is important evidence that needs to preserved.

  39. Who wants torrents? Come and get 'em! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry to reply off-topic, but I want to post this as high up as possible:

    http://www.mediafire.com/?9gig97gio0g3b7b

    Here is the torrent file. BoA seems to be sockpuppet-rushing TPB to mark the torrents as fake.

    1. Re:Who wants torrents? Come and get 'em! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Mod parent down, GP's link is genuine.

    2. Re:Who wants torrents? Come and get 'em! by HiThere · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but a recommendation from "Anonymous Coward" doesn't carry much weight. Either way. (I haven't checked, so I can't recommend.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:Who wants torrents? Come and get 'em! by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Thanks, reading it now; the link is good, ignore the AC response. Now I wish I had a margin account, so I could buy some Puts. Man, this is going to hurt them.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    4. Re:Who wants torrents? Come and get 'em! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything about you want to know about the leaked BofA files, including choice excerpts and link to complete archive is here: http://in.glouri.us

  40. Re:I will be closing my BOA account... by oddaddresstrap · · Score: 1

    ...prolific...
    I believe you mean they are "ubiquitous".

  41. Sorry but that is not what he did by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Provided that he indeed was the source of the leaked material, and it seems likely he was, this is NOT whistle blowing. That would be releasing a specific set of documents relevant to what you are blowing the whistle on. He released everything he got his hands on. Please note some of it is shit like what US diplomats think of foreign leaders. That is nothing that is of any public interest, nor in the slightest illegal/immoral/etc.

    Now regardless, he broke the law. Please remember military law is a little different from civilian law. Regardless it is illegal to disseminate classified information you are given access to.

    In a case of legit whistle blowing, then perhaps that is a mitigating circumstance (though the UCMJ doesn't really seem to provide an exception, perhaps it should but it doesn't) but in this case no. It was a leak of whatever he could get, without regard for value or harm. That really removes any moral high ground argument.

  42. So protest at the front gate to the CEO's house by Rasperin · · Score: 2

    Stop this protesting wherever you stand and start protesting in front of the houses of senators and CEO's. You want to put the fear of God into someone, protest right at there gate. Maybe even stir up a little violence. Honestly, if you aren't willing to go to jail for your believes, your words will never go anywhere...

    --
    WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
    1. Re:So protest at the front gate to the CEO's house by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Why do you think they've been hitting terrorism so hard recently? Any movement that picks up a little steam in a direction they don't approve they can just tar with the terrorism brush.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:So protest at the front gate to the CEO's house by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which house though?
      Which mansion in which state in which country?
      The problem with protesting today is that companies have multiple locations that they can operate from.

      The only central target left is their website...

    3. Re:So protest at the front gate to the CEO's house by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn to spell.

    4. Re:So protest at the front gate to the CEO's house by doctor_subtilis · · Score: 1

      Shay's Rebllion anyone? The riots during this time went right up to the houses of the rich and powerful. This is what led to the Philadelphia Convention. The rich wanted a stronger national government to do its bidding.

  43. Different leak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Different info, not the info that WikiLeaks reportedly has.

  44. Screw BoA by Virtucon · · Score: 1

    My Mortgage is with them now. Not by choice but they bought the mortgage, from somebody who bought the mortgage etc. Now I have to deal with these ass clowns and oh yeah, they've been trying to pull shit. That's why I have a lawyer and one more step out of line and I'll drag their collective asses into court.

    It's time for people to start standing up to these idiots and show them for the true fucktards they really are.

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    1. Re:Screw BoA by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This is why loans really shouldn't be allowed to be resold. How can you boycott Bank of America when you have no choice as to whom your bank sells your loan to?

      If you borrow money from Bank A, and they sell the loan to Bank B, that should not affect you at all. You had an agreement with Bank A, and only Bank A.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Screw BoA by random+coward · · Score: 1

      Get a good real estate lawyer. Its likely that they didn't file the paperwork for the transfers and may even have intentionally shredded the mortgage contracts. Your house may not even be securing that loan anymore.

    3. Re:Screw BoA by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      After they started pulling crap 8 months ago, I went out and hired a good Real Estate Attorney. In Texas, we seem to have lots of problems with mortgage fraud and the Texas AG has already gone after one company for similar practice that BoA is trying to pull here. https://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagnews/release.php?id=3458 Frankly, they're destroying the quiet enjoyment of my home and it's truly a shame that you have to literally go after them in court for things that any reasonable person would think are a slam dunk in terms of facts. They are truly a bunch of dumb fucks. I like the angle though, with my luck they'll have copies of the documents but I should give that a try as well.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  45. Ummm... Sorry... by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    But I find him no more, and perhaps less, a credible source than the banks. That site is written by Karl Denninger, who is a Tea Partier and Glenn Beck fan. Ok fine, but that does not speak to someone who is very balanced on the issues. That is a hardcore "Gold standard is the ONLY standard," kind of individual and not someone who has a good understanding of the complexities of finance and a balanced view (the phrase "bleeding heart liberals" is a favourite).

    1. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have no idea what you are talking. Karl Denninger does neither favor a gold standard nor is he a Glenn Beck fan.

      He distanced himself from the tea party shortly after the republicans took them over.

      Please educate yourself before preventing others from getting info on his site - the market ticker rocks.

    2. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spewing lies is fun, isn't it? Karl has come out _consistently_ against the gold standard. He fights flame wars on the forums against goldbugs all the time. As for the Tea Party, he was one of the original founders when the entire focus of the party was going after the rampant financial corruption. Once the Tea Party was overrun (embrace, extend, extinguish) by the neo-cons, he divorced himself from them entirely. He has gone on record on the ticker dozens of times saying that the Tea Party has denigrated into another party with a platform of "3 G's" (Guns, God, and Gays). Virtually indistinguishable from the GOP.

      If you want to disagree with the man,fine, but don't put bald face lies out there as facts.

    3. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by ikkonoishi · · Score: 0

      He was one of the founders of the Tea Party, but now decries them as sell outs. He doesn't support the gold standard, but wants the treasury to hold the currency level with neither inflation or deflation.

      Try not deciding whether someone is worth listening to before you listen to them in the future. It will serve you well.

    4. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by metlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I visited his site, and the first entry was on guns, comparing Obama to Hitler, while his site is titled, "Commentary on The Capital Markets". Very relevant and erudite, indeed. And of course, the content and quality of his site went downhill from there.

      Here is the problem, and the irony, of such sites (as I see it).

      Ever since the crash, you've all these "experts" who have a tenuous grasp at best of fundamental finance or economics, and yet who are perfectly comfortable spewing forth rubbish on the topic. It's no different from the dotcom boom -- everyone pretended to know a little something about technology, and was perfectly happy to spew forth rubbish, without really knowing anything substantial at all.

      Just read his junk on the state of the debt, and you realize that the man only talks about the market at a broad, superficial level, peppered with hackneyed hockey-mom aphorisms, without ever touching any of the fundamental drivers. Furthermore, I really wish somebody would give this guy a crash course in fundamental statistics on cross-correlation and causation.

      The problem is that armed with half-baked knowledge and strong opinions, these guys are perfectly happy telling the world what's wrong, but offering nothing more than platitudes in fixing the problems without collapsing the economic structure we've built thus far.

      Heck, what are the guy's qualifications? He has a Wikipedia entry that states that he is a "stock trader" and a CEO, but how much capital did he trade in? Unless it's hundreds of millions or more, he knows nothing about "capital markets" -- he is just a small fish in the pond. And what was he the "CEO" of? What are his educational qualifications?

      The irony of such guys pushing forth their opinions is pretty much the same as creationists pushing their "agenda" to stop teaching evolution.

      If you must, read someone like Nassim Nicholas Taleb -- his books The Black Swan or Fooled by Randomness offer a lot more on why we fucked up, than some crazy right wing rhetoric by a chipmunk with half-a-brain (no insults to any chipmunks, of course -- they are perfectly adorable creatures).

    5. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Denninger hates the gold standard.

    6. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you even reviewed any of his articles....

      I'll point you to one, there are more.

      http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2222649

    7. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but offering nothing more than platitudes in fixing the problems without collapsing the economic structure we've built thus far."

      That fact that we are even having this discussion should tell you the system is failing all by itself! We are down to money printing (ooops...quatitative easing) to fund the Federal deficit and prevent bond yields from exploding in our face!

    8. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess I should have skipped this post. . .

    9. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by metlin · · Score: 2

      This guy knows more about the markets and the economy than you or the vast majority of respected "economists" ever will.

      For one, I am not an economist, and I never claimed to be one. For another, if you are making sweeping statements like that, you'd better back them up. The man does not even have a single publication, peer reviewed or otherwise, on either RepEc or SSRN.

      I'm sorry, but it would be akin to a random blogger on physics claiming to know more about "physics" without having a single peer reviewed or refereed publication on the topic.

      And the big difference is that he's willing to tell the truth.

      ...and what truth would that be? We all know what some of the symptoms are, and we all know directionally what the solutions at addressing those symptoms might be. But that in no way makes us capable or knowledgeable in understanding -- much less fixing -- the root cause of the problem. My wife's grandmother watches House and thinks she can be a doctor, and random guys read yet another "expert" and think they know everything there is to on fixing the economy. Oh the irony.

      The garbage you spew forth is typical of what the main stream media feeds the populace and you do a disservice to people as a whole by repeating it. Let me guess, you finished a couple of university courses on Keynesian economics and now you're the expert who parrots "supply & demand!" in any thread economical...

      What garbage have I spewed forth? Calling forth some skepticism? But I suppose if you cannot refute the argument, why not resort to unintelligent, ad hominem attacks, right?

      Denninger was a Tea Party'er before they got high-jacked by the fools that now run it in a completely different direction. He no longer has anything to do with them and frequently rails on their antics. Denninger is also NOT a "hardcore gold standard" guy, so that shows how misinformed the slurs against him are.

      I could care less for his party affiliations -- I am more interested in his content and qualifications, both of which are suspect at best.

      Seriously, he's one of the few beacons of light in the sea of misinformation and outright bullshit coming from the usual suspects.

      How so? Please explain.

      Let's face it. Markets are complex systems, not unlike the ecology of our planet. Even after lifetimes of study, we've barely grazed our understanding of the subject. Modern markets as we know are really, really young, and incredibly complex. What more, unlike nature's ecology, market dynamics include a feedback and randomness introduced by the human element.

      Anyone who has the gall to say that they've "understood" such a system, or worse yet, offer solutions in fixing the problems thereof, better have some pretty mighty empirical data to back them up. The people who caused this problem were two-penny "economists" who did not understand such systems, and Karl Denninger is no less a charlatan than any of them.

    10. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Because it made you think?

    11. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Ever since the crash, you've all these "experts" who have a tenuous grasp at best of fundamental finance or economics, and yet who are perfectly comfortable spewing forth rubbish on the topic.

      And how exactly was that different from before the crash? Oh, right, your kooks are respectable....

      I mean sure, this guy is a crank. There's no denying that. But Greenspan, Bernanke, Paulson & Geitner are no more grounded in reality than this guy.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by metlin · · Score: 1

      If you notice the thread, I made the following comment:

      Anyone who has the gall to say that they've "understood" such a system, or worse yet, offer solutions in fixing the problems thereof, better have some pretty mighty empirical data to back them up. The people who caused this problem were two-penny "economists" who did not understand such systems, and Karl Denninger is no less a charlatan than any of them.

      Now, I refuse to believe that some of those guys did not know what they were doing -- I am of the belief that they were well aware of what was going on, and did it anyway.

      Some of them (e.g. Greenspan) were too sharp to not know what was going on, and others (e.g. Bernanke, Paulson) were either trying to make a name for themselves or cared more about short-term fixes and posterity from the public and the media. But do not mistake greed and narcissism for stupidity.

    13. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by thefixer(tm) · · Score: 1

      The problem with that attitude is that we're once again at the mercy of the experts to analyze and digest our information for us. I know it's veritable impossibility, but I think the reason we have so much apathy and sheep-ism in our culture is that there are just too many problems that fall down to this: the issue is too complex to understand without having a degree in whatever area we're talking about. Be it corporate morality in any industry, finance, law, taxes, health insurance...

      There's a part of me that feels like people are intentionally muddying the waters. It seems like all the really complex ways we solve things just makes more loopholes for the people with no moral compass. That the amount of BS you have to wade through is really a shield for charlatans and thieves. The more confusing, the longer it will take someone to put a foot on what it is they're doing that's not ok. (And by then they've already stolen the houses of people who could least afford to lose them, and moved on to another grift.)

      Maybe we could use some simpler answers. Or questions that are more to the point. As a private citizen, if my actions contribute to a crime, knowingly or unknowingly, I'm held accountable. So how can a person working at a bank who helps the bank steal from people not be held accountable for theft? Just because it was the corporation that primarily gained? Didn't the individual profit too? If a group of people robbed that bank, they'd all be held accountable for the maximum crime committed. You don't get 1/5 of a bank robbery because you only took a fifth of the money.

      The only way we're ever going to see this type of thing change is if we start holding individuals accountable for their actions.

    14. Re:Ummm... Sorry... by thefixer(tm) · · Score: 1

      Oh, and by accountable I mean charged with real crimes. Like theft, fraud, wire fraud, hell, they should be held accountable for any pain, suffering and health issues caused to these families as well. Call it assault with a deadly form and send 'em to real, federal, pound you in the ass prison.

      "I didn't know or I didn't think to question it" should NOT hold a lot of weight. People should know it's their job to do the right thing by their fellow man, and if they can't be good upstanding admirable citizens, they should be treated like every other dirtbag who crosses that line. Letting a company destroy families because you want that 2% raise or a Christmas bonus is not any different than knocking down grandma and stealing her purse. It just feels different because you're not actually seeing her hit the sidewalk.

      /rant over

  46. Thanks for nothing, Anonymous by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 2

    We knew all about this last year. It was on the front page of every paper and the lead story on the TV news. Unless the emails in question were written after October 2010, is there anything new?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39575033/ns/business-real_estate/

    --

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    1. Re:Thanks for nothing, Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rtfl

      Emails are from nov 2010

    2. Re:Thanks for nothing, Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first email is dated Monday, November 1, 2010. My suggestion would to be to actually research an event before forming an opinion about it.

    3. Re:Thanks for nothing, Anonymous by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      We knew all about this last year. It was on the front page of every paper and the lead story on the TV news. Unless the emails in question were written after October 2010, is there anything new?

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39575033/ns/business-real_estate/

      I think you would call the actual CONTENT being available now, "new".

      And your link had exactly ZERO to do with the release of these docs. Good Job.

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
  47. Billionairs by DarthVain · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I thought it sort of interesting that if you look at the list of Billionaires:

    http://www.forbes.com/wealth/billionaires#p_1_s_arank_-1__-1

    and look at where they got their money from.

    If you look at the USA, and ignore all the Walmart jerks, and software bubbles, a disproportionate amount got their money from "Hedge Funds". Now look around the world, how many others can you find? I think I found one.

    These are the same Hedge Funds that bought up (and demanded, and got) all the US real estate debt, causing the whole economic problem. I wonder how many of those guys are hurting? Oh wait, none because they are all billionaires. Also if you look at the names... its the exact same people that came up with the bail out plan etc... talk about conflict of interest and self serving SOB's.

    1. Re:Billionairs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just looked at that list, and, irrespective of what you said, I was shocked to see how many of the richest people were not Americans. In fact, there aren't that many Americans there at all.

      What is more, I was quite surprised by the number of Russians and Indians in the list. If I were to guess what the predominant nationality on that list would have been, I would have said American.

      India and Russia. Amazing.

  48. BoA and Taxes by braindrainbahrain · · Score: 3, Informative
    Bank of America...? Where have I heard that before...? Oh, yeah! They're the one that paid ZERO taxes last year!

    I don't know what's in those leaked e-mails, but this item is just as big - and scandalous,

    "GE isn't the only "Top 5" company on this year's Fortune 500 list that owed no income taxes. Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500), which suffered major losses in 2009, included a tax benefit of $1.9 billion in its annual profit."

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/companies/ge_7000_tax_returns/

  49. It'll never see the light of day, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I already know this is going to get modded into oblivion, but when my bank was bought out by PNC, I originally grimaced and waited for the hammer to come down and suck up all the money in my accounts there. (As opposed to, say, actually doing something about it.)

    So far, they're actually an improvement over the old bank management and remind me quite a bit of when Merchants was the local bank.

    Please, please don't go down the road that BoA and their ilk has, PNC!

  50. I did by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    I went and read his first semi-incoherent rant about gun control and Obama. That was enough for me.

    Also anyone who thinks you can hold the currency perfectly level doesn't understand how it works, or know history. Currency has never been perfectly stable and never will be. You can have it somewhat stable over the long term, at the expense of a lot more short term swings (that was how it used to be), but you can't have it dead level all the time.

  51. Corporations are only individuals for tax purposes by Tanman · · Score: 1

    If people in the corporation commit a crime, they can be charged individually. Just so you know.

  52. Re:Well, now we still don't know by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    According to what I've read, this was the work of just a few months ago. This does not seem to be the "large back" leak mentioned a while back. That was largely seen as the reason for the domain buying.

    So I would reserve judgement at this point. It's unlikely that they would start this practice a few months ago, and simultaneously protect themselves against repercussions of what they are doing. Well, actually that would make sense if a large bank leak had not already been announced.

  53. Don Henley by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    "Because a man with a briefcase can steal more money than any man with a gun." -- Gimme What You've Got

    1. Re:Don Henley by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      "Yes, as through this world I've wandered, I've seen lots of funny men. Some will rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen." - Woodie Guthrie

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  54. B64'd torrent file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the base64-encoded torrent:

    http://pastebin.com/b4ARwTZ7

  55. Even if he did trade in tons of money by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Doesn't mean he understood how it all works. There is no requirement to be a big stock trader other than to either have a bunch of money or to have people willing to give you money.

    I had an economics professor back in university who had never traded in any large amounts of stocks, yet I would say he knew far, far more about how the markets work. No he hadn't "been there" but he sure had done a lot of research.

    1. Re:Even if he did trade in tons of money by metlin · · Score: 1

      I agree with you, of course. But having known traders, I can tell you that you cannot trade large sums of money on that scale without some inkling or understanding of how the market works, or at least an appreciation for its complexity.

      Contrary to popular beliefs, the big traders are smarter than most people would think -- it's the mid-tier ones that are mostly schmucks. So, unless he worked for someone like Ren Tech or DE Shaw, or a trading desk at the erstwhile BBBs trading big, I'd question his understanding of market dynamics. Not that those would necessarily guarantee his understanding, but it would be an improvement from the rest of the clowns who call themselves "traders".

  56. Re:Corporations are only individuals for tax purpo by HiThere · · Score: 1

    If people in the corporation commit a crime, they can

    theoretically

    be charged individually. Just so you know.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  57. It is illegal by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

    Since a foreclosure proceeding is a court action, falsifying documentation is illegal. Coercing others to falsify court documents is (I belive) suborning perjury.

  58. Keep wishing, little man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody that matters cares about the opinions of surface-dwellers like you.

  59. Re:Corporations are only individuals for tax purpo by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    Can be, but in practice, aren't. The corporation buys lawyers for all (mainly to protect those at the top), no one says anything, and no one ever proves who actually did what or who knew what when. And rather than charging them all as a criminal organization under RICO, they just let them get away with it.

  60. Gold is like a house, the price can only go up by perpenso · · Score: 1

    My grandpa (who lived through the Depression) always used to say it was better to buy gold and bury it in your backyard than to put your money in a bank. And to think we used to laugh at him.

    Yeah, because gold is like buying a house. The price can only go up.

    Track the price of gold over grandpa's lifetime. Now track an interest bearing savings account over the same period, make sure to to include *** compounding interest ***. Do the same for 1980 (wan't that a huge peak followed by a crash) to today. Claiming that gold is a big win is all about cherry picking the day you buy and the day you sell. Compounding interest is far more reliable.

    Most important of all, is grandpa leaving a map to his backyard? :-) With a savings account you can turn in his SSN to the state to find lost/forgotten/abandoned accounts.

  61. SOX violation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Since this would touch the company's financial statements and fraudulently affect the profitability of a publicly traded company wouldn't this be a SOX violation and make the executive staff criminally liable?

  62. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    Listening to CEOs and PR reps is a waste of time, they have no idea what's really going on underneath them.

    The top men know exactly what's going on. They have set up the system to be filled with incompetence and overwork because that enables them to get away with defrauding billions from millions.

    The system is broken by design.

    Exactly! They implement these massively complicated rule structures on top of everything else and don't even let the officers read it before they vote on it. They're like "Well we have to pass it to know what's in it!".

    Wait. What were we talking about?

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  63. Technically, aren't you a republic? by fantomas · · Score: 1

    Technically, isn't the USA a republic rather than a democracy?

    Mind you I am splitting hairs a bit and would be interested if somebody could give me a summary on what the difference is... (I know, I should probably just look up wikipedia...)

  64. email encryption would easily prevent it by henryj · · Score: 2

    In light of email leaks and similar stories in the media, I wish there was more coverage how to prevent such leaks in the first place. I recommend services that offer encrypted email services like Hushmail and CryptoHeaven. Hushmail http://www.hushmail.com/ for its browser accessible web interface and CryptoHeaven http://www.cryptoheaven.com/secure-email-hosting.htm because of the transparent encryption for email and files which anyone can use with ease.

  65. And guess which party they give millions to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and how the supposedly pro-middle class and pro-poor Dems managed to out-raise the supposedly pro-rich Reps by 10 times in the last presidential campaign? And guess which president campaigned for and signed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act?

  66. BitTorrent? by amn108 · · Score: 1

    It would help Anonymous' professional reputation if they also uploaded the leak to the BitTorrent network... Then we wouldn't have to deal with the good old HTTP/1.1 Service Unavailable status code while someone leaches the data from the their site.

  67. To err is human, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to really foul things up requires a computer.

    While I'd moderate your post +1 insightful up to the last sentence, I beg to differ on "the problem is people". Up to 2007, a software supplier of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac used for its advertisement "Thanks to our product, the time it takes to process a loan application has come down from 20 days to 20 minutes over the past 10 years".

    The hubris of very few people who sold and were sold to the idea that the complex experience needed to handle these processes could be modeled and computerized has contributed a lot to the issue you describe.

  68. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by Carewolf · · Score: 1

    They don't actually have to know what is going on. The market has a natural emerging behavior. The CEO can muck around and just settle at the structure that turns them the highest profit, other companies can detect that higher profit and copy them, or hire the CEO to an even higher salary.

    It is hard to imagine the CEOs don't have _any_ clue of what is going on, but they could also just be closing their eyes, because keeping them closed is the most profitable, and the managers successfully keeping them closed are the most likely to be promoted.

    I do however find it highly unlikely anyone in that kind of position is smart enough to setup the system in the first place, it makes much more sense to be emerging naturally.

  69. +1 by ozgood · · Score: 0

    Lol - that was funny :) I'd give you +1 funny but I haven't had any mod points since the site redesign...? Also firefox seems to run at 100% cpu... anybody else?

  70. As a Bank of America employee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting anonymously because I work at Bank of America... but I can agree with what you've said for the most part.
    Also, remember that these emails came about as a result of acquiring Countrywide. Suddenly you've got an overnight influx of people who aren't on-board with the current company culture. This may not make sense to many of you, but as a Bank of America employee I can tell you it's real. One of the key principles of working at Bank of America is essentially "Doing the right thing". Now I can't speak for those who are involved in the leaked emails - I'm not even in that division. What I can tell you is that the general message is to do the right thing for our customers, and reputation is a big deal. I can honestly say that it is a great place to work because we are always keeping the voice of the customer in mind.

    I'm not defending Bank of America, but you have to remember it is a huge company. I can no more speak for people who may do something wrong than you can speak for Slashdot, or defend the comments in someone else's posts. When a company acquires another company, it can take a long time for the people to get acclimated. Again, not defending those who sent the emails, I have no idea who they are. I'm just saying it happens. I can be on a large conf call with 50 people... and those who are new to the bank, either new employees or acquired ones, stick out like a sore thumb.

    I don't know what happened here, and I honestly have not seen anything like the "corruption" that people love to talk about when referring to "big banks". I just do my job as best I can, and everyone around me seems to be doing the same thing. I'm not foolish enough to think that there isn't corruption of some kind at the bank, but I can tell you honestly that if it exists I haven't seen it in the 5 years I've been here.

  71. I already ditched Bank of America by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 1

    I already ditched Bank of America for CapitalOne months ago after a series of added fees where there weren't fees and cancellations of services I needed (such as the ability to withdraw money from CCB ATMs in China for free). So far CapitalOne rocks in almost every way.

  72. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    shill post. I don't know any slashdotter that posts LIKE you. in such a PREDICTABLE way.

  73. Cutting down on bank use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I post this on every bank related thing. Always relevant.

    If you've had enough of banks do what you can to avoid them, including cash if possible.

    -trade
    -p2p currency like bitcoin
    -credit unions
    -p2p lending like zopa
    -a few timedollars and a few local exchange credits can't harm

    The journey of a thousand steps starts with the first

  74. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Listening to CEOs and PR reps is a waste of time, they have no idea what's really going on underneath them.

    The top men know exactly what's going on. They have set up the system to be filled with incompetence and overwork because that enables them to get away with defrauding billions from millions.

    The system is broken by design.

    Exactly.

  75. Re:Corporations are only individuals for tax purpo by HermMunster · · Score: 1

    Every "manager" and up typically gets free legal representation by the Corporation's lawyers.

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  76. Unfortunetly, Grandpa's house got foreclosed... by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

    ...and now it's the banks backyard.

  77. because of the poor timing... by spd_rcr · · Score: 1

    While it's good that this was leaked on a Monday, choosing to release explosive documents (assumed) while Japan is facing a possible nuclear meltdown and one of the worst human crisis since the quake & tsunami in Indonesia, it will be lucky to make even a footnote on the national news.
    This should have been released back in December, shame on Assange and Wikileaks for holding information like this for their own political and personal gain. IF this is the same batch of documents on BofA, stalling has made it a complete waste.

    --
    - tensions in our lives that are attacking our minds, unite themselves together to make our consciousness blind - op'ivy
  78. Re:Corporations are only individuals for tax purpo by HermMunster · · Score: 1

    There was a time when income tax was on corporations only. Technically, there's no US law that says individuals must pay US federal taxes.

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  79. Re:Corporations are only individuals for tax purpo by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    CxO level and directors generally have business insurance (often paid by the corporation) that protects them personally. When the issue at hand should fall on a CxO or director, then the corporation generally foots the bill for all to protect them. The policies for middle management and below depends greatly on the corporation. But the protections for the top are always there.

  80. John Lewis by PrimeNumber · · Score: 1

    John Lewis in the UK is another type of organization that treats its employees very well in my opinion. And they do employ professions of all types, including programmers and other technical types.

  81. My comment was FLAME BAITED?! by tkprit · · Score: 2

    Hello! What is this?! I responded to "whistleblower defense isn't going to fly [in court]" with something OBAMA'S OWN ADMINISTRATION speaker had concerns with: Bradley Manning's treatment now would affect the court case later [if he's ever able to stand trial].

    I called it torture, and I'm not alone. Even the UN is investigating the government's treatment of Bradley Manning. Likewise, several journalists have taken Manning's treatment to task and called it 'torture' (Will Bunch, Daniel Ellsberg... the numbers are building). And [finally!] a congressman likened Manning's treatment to Abu Ghraib.

    As for Manning's ability to stand trial, after being in solitary confinement for 8 mos+, and stripped naked at night most recently (ostensibly because he's a 'suicide threat' but doesn't qualify for a mental evaluation), Manning's reportedly catatonic — not fit for trial. That's FLAMEBAIT?! Hell no — at worst, it's "Off topic", but then again, so is this whole part of the thread.

  82. can't get it to work by decora · · Score: 1

    0 peers.

    nothing happens.

  83. thats great but uhm. by decora · · Score: 1

    i have had a website up about the 'toxic debt' for 6+ months. it gives details of CDOs.

    it has almost no visitors. 100 hits a day, mostly big banks and lawyers and the government trolling google looking for specific doodas for some reason they are stuck with researching.

    now, is that the users fault? or is it my fault, for not making my site good enough? i dont mean good like huffington post, i mean good like digging enough dirt out before i find something.

    (actually i did find some things but i couldnt post them, because.. its a long story. . . )

    anyways, if my site had been successfull i could have quit my job and done more of it. instead i am pretty much about to shut the site down.

    should i blame the public? i dont think so, i used to be a 'stupid public' before i heard a radio show that approached the story from an angle i could understand.

  84. what do you think credit unions invest in? by decora · · Score: 1

    i hate to be sour grapes, but all these 'boycott BOA' calls are just about like boycotting Shell stations and thinking that it matters. the Oil all gets mixed together at the refinery, and money all gets mixed together in the back office of financial institutions. it doesnt matter if it is a small Gasoline shop in downtown, springfield, america, or a small bank across the street from it. the same principle applies.

  85. they may have just bought servicing rights by decora · · Score: 1

    the actual 'owners' of your mortgage might be thousands of people all over the planet.

    the BoA might just be the 'servicers'.

    1. Re:they may have just bought servicing rights by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      Just like George Carlin's routine "Servicing the Customer?"

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

      BoA can suck my balls.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  86. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A very convenient way for the banks to blame "the system" and not themselves. This is exactly how this leak will end up. It was a lone wolf, a singular act of incompetence....

  87. They leave you little choice... by helios17 · · Score: 1

    Hands in the cookie jar and all that... BOA mastered the art of manipulating debit card charges to insure that the maximum amount of overdraft charges were assessed to you. Instead of recording your transactions in real time, they waited until 8 pm EST to do their math. Let's say you had 210.00 dollars in your account that day, but mistakenly charged 225.00 in multiple transactions, they would debit the largest charges first allowing many of the smaller ones to put you over. @ 35.00 for each overdraft, BOA made billions, thus satisfying stockholders with easy and massive profit. Sure Wells Fargo and BOA were busted for it and there was a lot of noise from the Gubment about civil and federal charges but in the end, the story died. This leak about this particular issue isn't a surprise. BOA is a greasy bunch. Along with the Congressmen that protect them.

    --
    Windows assumes you are an idiot...Linux demands proof.
  88. Re:Incompetence Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sad thing is that people behaving like this don't realise how lucky they are to be in the position of helping someone keep their home.

    Can you imagine how it would feel to lose your home?

    An honourable person would consider it a privilege to be in a position to attempt help a person out of that misery.