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Amazon Responds To "App Store" Lawsuit From Apple
tekgoblin writes "Apple had filed a lawsuit in March against Amazon's use of 'App Store' in their newly launched Amazon AppStore. Apple had informed Amazon that using the term 'App Store' was unlawful because they owned the rights to the term itself. In their response Amazon indicates that the term 'App Store' is too generic for Apple to lay claim to the name itself."
Isn't this "news" really old?
For the love of sanity, please let Amazon win this one. I don't know if I want to live in a country where justice is so blind that it allows trademarking the name of the category a thing belongs to as the proper name of that thing.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
You mean like 'Apple'?
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
App shop, App mart, App mall, App stand, Apptorium, Appmania, App warehouse.
and the idea of one click purchasing isn't too obvious. You license us a patent and we'll license you a trademark.
Why don't people try to find if a name is already owned by someone else before they use it? Why are we continually subjected to news about such clownishness?
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The only thing Apple is pissed about is the fact that Amazon is using the App Store to market Android apps. It's specifically mentioned in item 23 of the lawsuit . This is how monopolies are maintained with the blessing of the state, through the use and abuse of stupid patents.
prepare the survey weasels.
Anyone? Anyone?
In a country where Cookie Store is a trademark to sell cookie, I think that Amazon doesn't stand a chance...
Like the Russian revolution was co-opted by the communists and the French by the montagnards, the information revolution has been hijacked by the megalomaniacs. Of course the fanboys and girls will still worship Jobs even if he sues them for using his products in some way he doesn't approve.
Realism time - at first App Store seems generic. But when, before the Apple "App Store" launched, did anyone ever use the term "app" outside of a restaurant?
That's the key thing. The slang if you will, is something Apple developed. Like Kleenex or Windows it sounds generic, but that's because it's so widely used now that you think of it as generic when the term really originated with Apple.
So I don't think it's that silly a suit at all, though I don't care who wins it. I just think there's more of a point to it than most here would credit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The sad part is that no matter how silly these lawsuits are it doesn't inspire enough people to walk away from a company that uses it as a tactic to squash competitors or bring in revenue.
I'm sorry, but this is common practice in America.
One of my favorite places to get a drink is called Gin Joint.
If you're against trademarks, fine. If you're against a very specific type of trademark (generic term for the product itself) then be prepared to battle a long list of precedent, and also be prepared to point to a dictionary that shows app store to be common usage before Apple trademarked it. But you're in America, where I can trademark the slogan Best Programmer in the World (tm) without any proof of it and attach it below my name, so forgive respondents if they think you're just picking on Apple.
BTW, trademarks do provide consumer protections by helping identify things. When I bought a car for instance, I really did want the one manufactured in Ingolstadt.
Lies about crimes
Yeah, the term "App store" is pretty generic, however, in the context of what Amazon's looking to do with the term, it's pretty blatant that they'd choose that name to sell mobile applications on branded equipment, particularly when Apple has stuck it's neck out in such a way that it may in fact cause some confusion for non-tech minded folks.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Why is it that companies seem to think that they can cordon off words from the natural language wordspace and treat them as private "property"? The fact that their governments give them a piece of paper confirming ownership merely shifts the question, because governments don't have any inherent rights over the wordspace either.
The phrase that Apple might rightly consider theirs in the US market is "Apple App Store", but even that should not be treated as exclusive if Apple Records or Apple Corps or some other Apple ever wanted to open an app store.
When you adopt a generic term as part of the your product name, you have to live with the consequences of non-exclusivity.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
will apple just go and patent the word computer already?
I'd rather see both fucking companies impoverish themselves fighting this shit out in court.
According to a related article at The Register, as recently as October of 2010, Steve Jobs himself publicly called Apple's app store "the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone." So it would appear that even Cupertino is using the phrase app store generically in reference to its competitors. I'd call this tidbit a crushing blow to Apple's case.
Thanks, Steve! We all app-reciate it.
Amazon saying a legal reservation on a idea is too generic is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. I seem to remember that Amazon patented everything they came up with for a long period, and most of that was so obvious no one else would have considered patenting it. UserFriendly covered that a long time ago.
The article is missing the real damning part of the filing, where Amazon quotes Steve Jobs as indicating there are multiple App Stores. It is pretty hard to convincingly argue that a term isn't generic when your CEO uses it in a generic fashion.
Here's the quote:
In press releases, Apple has claimed that its app store is 'the largest application store in the world.' In October 2010, Apple's CEO Steve Jobs called Apple's app store 'the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone.'
Part of trademarks is that they need to (or at least are supposed to) be unique to a degree. They are a non-generic mark that people can use to identify your brand. Well part of that obviously means you can't just use a generic term for what you are doing. You can't take an existing descriptive term and trademark it. Now that doesn't mean your trademark can't use a word that is descriptive of your field. Like you could trademark Brkello's Groceries and that would be fine. However you couldn't then go after anyone with "groceries" in their name.
App store is extremely generic. "App" has long been a term for an application and of course a store is just a place that sells things. Hence trying to say that "App store" is a unique term for a store that sells apps is bullshit.
Amazon and Apples are both objects, and thus generic terms right? Windows is obviously too generic. But, as Lindows found out, the judges have ruled that it's not generic to the field of operating system names. I think Amazon would make the same argument about Amazon not being generic when it comes to online stores.
Apple should start a new store and call it the Apple Amazon store.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Richard Stallman sues Apple, says it should be called "Gnu/App Store". Gnu/Apple and Gnu/Amazon both call him a Gnu/idiot.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
I posted something about this general sort of stuff earlier (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2089310&cid=35863126) and I think this is more of the same. Apple is worried. Their massive growth has all been as a consumer electronics company. Their original product, the iPod, has really leveled off. Don't get me wrong, they still make money on it but the market is pretty saturated. Their new growth has been iToys.
Well Android presents a real threat to that. When it first came out I wouldn't have said so. The initial Android offerings weren't bad, but they weren't the same level of consumer friendly and as good a toy as iOS. That has changed. New Android devices, particularly those with the Sense UI, are easy to use, good looking, powerful, etc, etc. It is a real threat to Apple, so they are lashing out.
Same shit with the app store. If they can squash Amazon's use of it that puts them in a strong position to go after Google's use of it. Try to make Apple the only platform that has a "app store".
Smart move by Amazon. I agree that the term 'App Store' is generic and should not be something Apple can trademark. But even if they lose, the "fight" will be covered by the press - who seems to have Apple fever. Rather then spend piles of money on advertising, just call it 'App Store' and let Apple's legal department get the ball rolling. The press will cover it and everyone will know there are "two app stores".
Pity all the other app stores. They will be fighting over third place. And most marketing races boil down to the market leader and the best alternative. Did Amazon just leap past Google with even offering a phone?
Place nail here >+
Too generic like "windows" ( M$); "Reality", "English" (Microdata versions of PICK OS and programming language) and McDonalds going after Mc* etc. ?
Indeed the usual Legal advise is to keep a Trademark one needs to aggressively enforce it.
So far both sides appear to be following the textbooks. So nothing newsworthy. Not that the system seems sensible but it is what is is.
Awww, issum sad little troll? Please, trollio, tell us how I support Microsoft in my post above. Saying the term "Windows" is not generic is not supporting Microsoft, you fucking twit. You need to get a new hobby, one that doesn't involve you looking like an ass.
For the record, Microsoft sucks. Windows sucks. Why must I reboot you to install a fucking PDF reader, Windows? Twitter is an idiot. You are an idiot. And your mother grunts like a donkey when she's taking it up the ass. Just FYI, that is the noise you hear when you are masturbating in her basement: me, sticking it to her good.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
"But here's what's really going to cook your noodle..."
Was App Store a category of a thing before Apple invented it?
Lies about crimes
I had totally forgotten about "Killer App", which is obviously the use everyone would recognize instantly... but I had not been aware of really any other app uses, which your google search illustrated quite well. So I'm totally wrong on that point.
I guess Apple's case then rests wholly on the combination of "App" and "Store" then, which still may get them somewhere...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I didn't know tha Amazon had an App Store. Now I do.
Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
I have a yellow wood axe (can't recall the brand off hand) with the following imprinted on the handle: "The color Yellow is trademarked..." to whatever company it was. It is absurdities like this that make the world a ridiculous place. But I suppose since none of this capitalist BS means anything outside of our puny little planet, I guess it doesn't have to make sense.
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
I'm trademarking it! profit!
Is "App" widely understood by the public to mean an iOS Application specifically?
No.
Is tacking Store on to the end of anything enough to create an original trademark?
Never.
Do people identify the term "App Store" as being specifically Apple?
No.
This fails any reasonable test from a member of the publics point of view, that counts for a lot I'm sure. Amazon has a good chance of winning and they are right to seem confidient.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
for using the word "dealer" to describe an establishment authorized to distribute their product.
They don't even have exclusive rights to the word "Apple", except in certain contexts, how can they have ownership of every abbreviation. App Store only started in 2008 anyway.
Generecized Trademark, according to wikipedia:
A trademark typically becomes "genericized" when the products or services with which it is associated have acquired substantial market dominance or mind share such that the primary meaning of the genericized trademark becomes the product or service itself rather than an indication of source for the product or service to such an extent that the public thinks the trademark is the generic name of the product or service.
Apple for the win?
Amazon should rename their store: The iApp Store.
Problem solved.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
That use of AppStore, even though not separated, seems like it would totally bury Apple's claim that the exact wording was unique. It's in almost exactly the same context
It kind of makes you wonder if Salesforce.com is not eyeing Apple now and the big pile of money they have collected...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You mean like things like "Windows" right?
No, this is slashdot. He must have meant Freeware. The clever combination of "Free" and "Software".
Start packing...
Riiiight, because the z isn't used as a 'cool' substitute for s and apps isn't the plural of app. Clearly nothing at all to do with app.
the Application Procurement Program for Licensed End-users
That should avoid any further lawsuits.
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
Dude, that IS twitter. He's back! Oh, how I missed that entertainment.
For the record though - the reboot is actually because of the only thing in the world with such unparalleled shittyness that nothing could possibly beat it: Adobe.
Personally, I kind of like Win7, though I still kind of dislike Microsoft.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
In case you didn't notice, Appz is rather unlike App. Also that domain is based around the concept of "Warez", more than a shortened form of Application.
In any case the idea and name AppStore was around before Apple's App Store and was also a place to buy Applications from.
One or the other should change their name to Jerk Store. They might have to license it from NBC; but it would fit either way and I don't think anybody is using it.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Hey Steve, how is your liver doing? Are you going to steal one more? That was so cool you did there. Do you have enough fanbois to suck your dick? If not, you can take a look at /., you will find plenty.
Bye.
And that in a nutshell is exactly how genericity in patent law is supposed to work. IAAL.
Another way to think about it is that words, or combinations of words, which competitors in a particular market would generally wish to use to describe their goods and services should not be patentable.
Now lets see if the courts agree on this particular set of facts.
Anyone notice all the Apple ads that reference the "Appstore" ("If you dont have an iPhone, then you don't have the AppStore...")? Well, that's exactly how anyone can "cordon off words from the natural language wordspace and treat them as private "property". This is just how trademarks work: all you need to do is convince enough people/consumers to associate "appstore" and "apple" and you're done, because trademarks are at their heart consumer protections to prevent confusion in the marketplace.
In this case, Apple will run enough ads that this becomes the case (and they probably already have a healthy start), then will commission a survey of a typical american/comsumer/smartphone user/other target demographic chosen for the purpose that shows exactly this fact. Amazon might try to counter with ads and surveys of its own, but given Apple's mindshare/marketing clout, Amazon is at a significant disadvantage. Long before this lawsuit ever gets to trial, Apple will present its survey findings to Amazon, who will then capitulate and settle because they know they would lose.
Apple is so fucking shitty, they ruin every1, take every1 to court, try to sue anything that breathes. Those are the kinds of people ruining this country. Apple has always, and will always, be my least favorite company out there, I refuse to buy any product for them or use anything with their name/logo on it. I do not understand why so many people still love them.
I think the saddest thing about all this, is that if I started a store that sold apples (the fruit), I couldn't call it an apple store without being sued.
Apple Store, no. Apple Mart, no. Apple Shop, no.
It's the same thing with Amazon. They want a name that reflects the purpose of the store.
They sell apps. It's an app store.
Then again, Apple did sue someone for using the word "pod" in their product name, so we can hardly be surprised by this (link)
http://www.bonkersworld.net/2011/03/24/eating-fruit/ :-)
Well... from the looks of Amazon's logo, they don't use the term 'App Store', which I would agree, for the sake of software distribution platforms, shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked. They do however use the entirely different label of 'appstore' which isn't in any of my dictionaries, nor are any of its words abbreviations for words that are in my dictionary. Sounds like Amazon has a more trademark-able title than Apple does.
Amazon will loose. "App Store" is a valid trademark. A key distinction is that "App Store" is not actually a store at all. There is no merchandize, they don't buy and sell goods. They run a brokerage. You can call a brokerage "App Store". It is the same as if you ran a tutoring service and called it "Tutor Store". You aren't selling tutors your selling tutoring services. I can find precedence in US trademarks that agrees with this; there is a nightclub called "Liqueur Store".
I don't agree. You're just trying to be cool by joining the anti-Apple fanboy herd with comments like this.
One coworker has constant problems with his mouse in Win7, another suffers blue screens fairly often, but I've had no problems. I still dislike Microsoft, but the fact is, they are becoming less and less relevant. They aren't the one and only 800 pound gorilla in the room anymore. It's much less fun to hate on a company that looks and acts like it is slowly dying.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton