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Amazon Responds To "App Store" Lawsuit From Apple
tekgoblin writes "Apple had filed a lawsuit in March against Amazon's use of 'App Store' in their newly launched Amazon AppStore. Apple had informed Amazon that using the term 'App Store' was unlawful because they owned the rights to the term itself. In their response Amazon indicates that the term 'App Store' is too generic for Apple to lay claim to the name itself."
For the love of sanity, please let Amazon win this one. I don't know if I want to live in a country where justice is so blind that it allows trademarking the name of the category a thing belongs to as the proper name of that thing.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
You mean like 'Apple'?
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
I think the "news" is that Amazon has responded with exactly what everyone had already predicted they'd respond with:
"App Store" is too generic.
App shop, App mart, App mall, App stand, Apptorium, Appmania, App warehouse.
It's about a 2 day old court filing. You have a very strange definition of "really old".
Amazon's response is new.
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and the idea of one click purchasing isn't too obvious. You license us a patent and we'll license you a trademark.
Why don't people try to find if a name is already owned by someone else before they use it? Why are we continually subjected to news about such clownishness?
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In a country where Cookie Store is a trademark to sell cookie, I think that Amazon doesn't stand a chance...
Like the Russian revolution was co-opted by the communists and the French by the montagnards, the information revolution has been hijacked by the megalomaniacs. Of course the fanboys and girls will still worship Jobs even if he sues them for using his products in some way he doesn't approve.
through the use and abuse of stupid patents.
You do realize that this is about Trademarks and not Patents, right?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
How many velociraptors did you have to swerve around on your way to work yesterday? If non-zero AND you don't have a hallucination problem, then I suppose this news is a bit old. Otherwise, no, it's a current event.
Amazon quotes Apple chief executive Steve Jobs in the filing referring to the iTunes App Store as "the easiest to use, largest app store in the world".
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/mac-inspector-blog/2046035/amazon-files-response-apples-app-store-suit
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Realism time - at first App Store seems generic. But when, before the Apple "App Store" launched, did anyone ever use the term "app" outside of a restaurant?
That's the key thing. The slang if you will, is something Apple developed. Like Kleenex or Windows it sounds generic, but that's because it's so widely used now that you think of it as generic when the term really originated with Apple.
So I don't think it's that silly a suit at all, though I don't care who wins it. I just think there's more of a point to it than most here would credit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And the sad thing is that this comes from the company that patented the "genius" 1-click buying.
`echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
The sad part is that no matter how silly these lawsuits are it doesn't inspire enough people to walk away from a company that uses it as a tactic to squash competitors or bring in revenue.
While 'Container Store' was trademarked, I doubt they'd be able successfully sue 'Amazon Container Store' for trademark infringement.
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Yeah, the term "App store" is pretty generic, however, in the context of what Amazon's looking to do with the term, it's pretty blatant that they'd choose that name to sell mobile applications on branded equipment, particularly when Apple has stuck it's neck out in such a way that it may in fact cause some confusion for non-tech minded folks.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Well... I did have to swerve around a box with a few velociraptors. Does that count?
Why is it that companies seem to think that they can cordon off words from the natural language wordspace and treat them as private "property"? The fact that their governments give them a piece of paper confirming ownership merely shifts the question, because governments don't have any inherent rights over the wordspace either.
The phrase that Apple might rightly consider theirs in the US market is "Apple App Store", but even that should not be treated as exclusive if Apple Records or Apple Corps or some other Apple ever wanted to open an app store.
When you adopt a generic term as part of the your product name, you have to live with the consequences of non-exclusivity.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Well... I did have to swerve around a box with a few velociraptors. Does that count?
Yes because Western Digital drives are extremely dangerous and prone to killing off anything that touches their platers.
Can Klenex sue anyone for using their name when referring to Tissue Paper to blow your nose?
I am against a sloppy application of the law.
The fact that a certain sort of nonsense was tolerated before really doesn't matter.
This isn't about being "against trademarks". Thats just stupid bad rhetoric.
This is about being against trademarks that fail the basic rules for being an enforceable trademark.
Being against this sort of nonsense is like advocating that the speed limit be enforced.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
According to a related article at The Register, as recently as October of 2010, Steve Jobs himself publicly called Apple's app store "the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone." So it would appear that even Cupertino is using the phrase app store generically in reference to its competitors. I'd call this tidbit a crushing blow to Apple's case.
Thanks, Steve! We all app-reciate it.
Amazon saying a legal reservation on a idea is too generic is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. I seem to remember that Amazon patented everything they came up with for a long period, and most of that was so obvious no one else would have considered patenting it. UserFriendly covered that a long time ago.
The article is missing the real damning part of the filing, where Amazon quotes Steve Jobs as indicating there are multiple App Stores. It is pretty hard to convincingly argue that a term isn't generic when your CEO uses it in a generic fashion.
Here's the quote:
In press releases, Apple has claimed that its app store is 'the largest application store in the world.' In October 2010, Apple's CEO Steve Jobs called Apple's app store 'the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone.'
I think the Apple lawsuit is frivolous. But there are many large American companies with generic-sounding names. For example, there is an aftermarket car air conditioning company called Factory Air, an electric utility called National Grid, and a bedding company called The Company Store. How does the law deal with these cases of companies claiming common phrases as corporate identities?
Part of trademarks is that they need to (or at least are supposed to) be unique to a degree. They are a non-generic mark that people can use to identify your brand. Well part of that obviously means you can't just use a generic term for what you are doing. You can't take an existing descriptive term and trademark it. Now that doesn't mean your trademark can't use a word that is descriptive of your field. Like you could trademark Brkello's Groceries and that would be fine. However you couldn't then go after anyone with "groceries" in their name.
App store is extremely generic. "App" has long been a term for an application and of course a store is just a place that sells things. Hence trying to say that "App store" is a unique term for a store that sells apps is bullshit.
Richard Stallman sues Apple, says it should be called "Gnu/App Store". Gnu/Apple and Gnu/Amazon both call him a Gnu/idiot.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Just what flavor is the kool-aid?
Apple should open an Apple store in Belem do Para (Brazil) which is a major city at the mouth of the Amazon. It would be the Apple Amazon store.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I posted something about this general sort of stuff earlier (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2089310&cid=35863126) and I think this is more of the same. Apple is worried. Their massive growth has all been as a consumer electronics company. Their original product, the iPod, has really leveled off. Don't get me wrong, they still make money on it but the market is pretty saturated. Their new growth has been iToys.
Well Android presents a real threat to that. When it first came out I wouldn't have said so. The initial Android offerings weren't bad, but they weren't the same level of consumer friendly and as good a toy as iOS. That has changed. New Android devices, particularly those with the Sense UI, are easy to use, good looking, powerful, etc, etc. It is a real threat to Apple, so they are lashing out.
Same shit with the app store. If they can squash Amazon's use of it that puts them in a strong position to go after Google's use of it. Try to make Apple the only platform that has a "app store".
Smart move by Amazon. I agree that the term 'App Store' is generic and should not be something Apple can trademark. But even if they lose, the "fight" will be covered by the press - who seems to have Apple fever. Rather then spend piles of money on advertising, just call it 'App Store' and let Apple's legal department get the ball rolling. The press will cover it and everyone will know there are "two app stores".
Pity all the other app stores. They will be fighting over third place. And most marketing races boil down to the market leader and the best alternative. Did Amazon just leap past Google with even offering a phone?
Place nail here >+
That made no sense. At all.
Just what flavor is the kool-aid?
It's "windowpane" actually.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Too generic like "windows" ( M$); "Reality", "English" (Microdata versions of PICK OS and programming language) and McDonalds going after Mc* etc. ?
Indeed the usual Legal advise is to keep a Trademark one needs to aggressively enforce it.
So far both sides appear to be following the textbooks. So nothing newsworthy. Not that the system seems sensible but it is what is is.
Awww, issum sad little troll? Please, trollio, tell us how I support Microsoft in my post above. Saying the term "Windows" is not generic is not supporting Microsoft, you fucking twit. You need to get a new hobby, one that doesn't involve you looking like an ass.
For the record, Microsoft sucks. Windows sucks. Why must I reboot you to install a fucking PDF reader, Windows? Twitter is an idiot. You are an idiot. And your mother grunts like a donkey when she's taking it up the ass. Just FYI, that is the noise you hear when you are masturbating in her basement: me, sticking it to her good.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
"But here's what's really going to cook your noodle..."
Was App Store a category of a thing before Apple invented it?
Lies about crimes
I had totally forgotten about "Killer App", which is obviously the use everyone would recognize instantly... but I had not been aware of really any other app uses, which your google search illustrated quite well. So I'm totally wrong on that point.
I guess Apple's case then rests wholly on the combination of "App" and "Store" then, which still may get them somewhere...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Which Apple subsequently licensed for some 'undisclosed sum'*, making the whole thing look legitimate and thus helping Amazon when they went to assert their patent against other defendants.
Watch the same thing happen here.
* $8.50 and a jar of pimento olives.
I didn't know tha Amazon had an App Store. Now I do.
Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
I have a yellow wood axe (can't recall the brand off hand) with the following imprinted on the handle: "The color Yellow is trademarked..." to whatever company it was. It is absurdities like this that make the world a ridiculous place. But I suppose since none of this capitalist BS means anything outside of our puny little planet, I guess it doesn't have to make sense.
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
Is "App" widely understood by the public to mean an iOS Application specifically?
No.
Is tacking Store on to the end of anything enough to create an original trademark?
Never.
Do people identify the term "App Store" as being specifically Apple?
No.
This fails any reasonable test from a member of the publics point of view, that counts for a lot I'm sure. Amazon has a good chance of winning and they are right to seem confidient.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
For example, there is an aftermarket car air conditioning company called Factory Air, an electric utility called National Grid, and a bedding company called The Company Store.
None of those examples are generic descriptors of the stores. It is different than an air conditioning company called Air Conditioning Company, an electric utility called Electric Utility or a bedding company called The Bedding Company.
If they were in a box on the road, they might technically be EX-velociraptors.
context
-noun
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
In the context of operating systems, Windows isn't generic. In the context of electronic devices Companies, Apple isn't generic.
In the context of app stores, "App Store" is generic.
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Should the staff be all females that practice archery?
Thing is, "Kleenex" is a completely made-up word, and even then they were so popular it was a close call (and took a lawsuit, if I recall) for them to defend the term as a proper noun rather than a generic term. If it had gone the other way, it might just be "kleenex" today, and anybody could use it, because the brand was nearly that ubiquitous.
So take something like "app store" which millions of people might string together of their own devices when trying to describe a place where you buy things (i.e., a store), that sells software (i.e., apps), and you've got a situation where it's at least reasonable to argue about whether it's generic or has the ability to be trademarked.
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Windows is not a generic term when applied to an OS, because the word "windows" does not denote "OS". It denotes a completely different thing. Therefore, using this name to name an OS makes it an enforceable trademark. Same logic applies to Amazon.
On the other hand, "App Store" is a generic term that describes an application store. Consequently, it cannot be trademarked as a name of an application store. In a similar vein, Microsoft cannot trademark "OS" as a name of its operating system, and Amazon cannot trademark "online store" as a name for its online store.
Generecized Trademark, according to wikipedia:
A trademark typically becomes "genericized" when the products or services with which it is associated have acquired substantial market dominance or mind share such that the primary meaning of the genericized trademark becomes the product or service itself rather than an indication of source for the product or service to such an extent that the public thinks the trademark is the generic name of the product or service.
Apple for the win?
Amazon should rename their store: The iApp Store.
Problem solved.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
That use of AppStore, even though not separated, seems like it would totally bury Apple's claim that the exact wording was unique. It's in almost exactly the same context
It kind of makes you wonder if Salesforce.com is not eyeing Apple now and the big pile of money they have collected...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You mean like things like "Windows" right?
No, this is slashdot. He must have meant Freeware. The clever combination of "Free" and "Software".
Start packing...
Riiiight, because the z isn't used as a 'cool' substitute for s and apps isn't the plural of app. Clearly nothing at all to do with app.
Maybe he was saying his Apple Computer Incorporated is the bestest Apple Computer Incorporated out of all the Apple Computer Incorporateds in the world? Cuz it is.
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yes, but they have to agree to the mastectomy too...
the Application Procurement Program for Licensed End-users
That should avoid any further lawsuits.
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Don't underestimate them, they hunt in packs!
Ice Cream has no bones.
Kleenex (instthat actually Kimberly Clark?) has a trademark on "Pop Up". Still waiting hopefully for them to sue everyone using pop-up ads.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Don't underestimate them, they hunt in packs!
Just when you thought it was safe to rebuild your 20TB RAID6 array, BAM! your a dead man with no backup....
Dude, that IS twitter. He's back! Oh, how I missed that entertainment.
For the record though - the reboot is actually because of the only thing in the world with such unparalleled shittyness that nothing could possibly beat it: Adobe.
Personally, I kind of like Win7, though I still kind of dislike Microsoft.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
In case you didn't notice, Appz is rather unlike App. Also that domain is based around the concept of "Warez", more than a shortened form of Application.
In any case the idea and name AppStore was around before Apple's App Store and was also a place to buy Applications from.
You're saying that it's udderly ridiculous?
One or the other should change their name to Jerk Store. They might have to license it from NBC; but it would fit either way and I don't think anybody is using it.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
erm, microsoft didn't win that lawsuit, they were going to *lose* the windows trademark and paid out lindows to drop the case and change their name.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
I think the saddest thing about all this, is that if I started a store that sold apples (the fruit), I couldn't call it an apple store without being sued.
Apple Store, no. Apple Mart, no. Apple Shop, no.
It's the same thing with Amazon. They want a name that reflects the purpose of the store.
They sell apps. It's an app store.
Then again, Apple did sue someone for using the word "pod" in their product name, so we can hardly be surprised by this (link)
http://www.bonkersworld.net/2011/03/24/eating-fruit/ :-)
And let the lawyers win instead?
Amazon will loose. "App Store" is a valid trademark. A key distinction is that "App Store" is not actually a store at all. There is no merchandize, they don't buy and sell goods. They run a brokerage. You can call a brokerage "App Store". It is the same as if you ran a tutoring service and called it "Tutor Store". You aren't selling tutors your selling tutoring services. I can find precedence in US trademarks that agrees with this; there is a nightclub called "Liqueur Store".
Amazon is using the App Store to market Android apps
Well Amazon couldn't use the term "Android Market" to sell Android apps, because then Google would sue them.
I think they should use "Android Program Emporium, Selling High-quality Internet Technologies", it has a nice ring to it.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I don't agree. You're just trying to be cool by joining the anti-Apple fanboy herd with comments like this.
One coworker has constant problems with his mouse in Win7, another suffers blue screens fairly often, but I've had no problems. I still dislike Microsoft, but the fact is, they are becoming less and less relevant. They aren't the one and only 800 pound gorilla in the room anymore. It's much less fun to hate on a company that looks and acts like it is slowly dying.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
You missed his point. If "Kleenex" produces "Kleenex Tissue Paper", can no-one else produce "tissue paper"? Of course they can; it is a generic phrase that describes something: tissue paper. They can't call it "Kleenex" but they can call it tissue paper, because that's what it is.
Similarly the existence of an "Apple App Store" does not prevent Amazon from creating an "Amazon AppStore". Nobody can start a computing company named "Apple", but they can create an app store and call it that, because that's what it is.
Did I miss his point or did you? One of us is misreading him, but I'm not entirely sure which. I agree 100% that your answer to your version of the question is correct, and that's basically what I said in the second half of my own post. I still think "can Klenex sue anyone for using their name" means my interpretation of the question is what the OP intended, but we may never know, and since we're agreeing with each other about the answer, whatever the question, it's probably not worth worrying about.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
That's mainly because Google has a trademark on the name Android and using it implies that the product is certified by Google.
Anyone notice all the Apple ads that reference the "Appstore" ("If you dont have an iPhone, then you don't have the AppStore...")? Well, that's exactly how anyone can "cordon off words from the natural language wordspace and treat them as private "property".
That sounds very similar to the Duncan campaign "If it's not a Duncan, it's not a yo-yo". Incidentally, Duncan lost their "Yo-yo" trademark because the court ruled that the name of the toy had entered general use. Trying to "cordon off words" doesn't always mean you'll succeed.
What about the Container Store.
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