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Anonymous To Release Sun, News of the World Emails

siliconbits writes "After having hacked Rupert Murdoch's flagship news website, thesun.co.uk, and redirecting its readers to a spoof front page and pilfering its email servers, Anonymous' unofficial mouthpiece, Sabu, has revealed that the group is 'sitting on [the sun's & NOTW's] emails' with a press release from Anonymous & possibly more coming in a few hours. While that website has already been taken down, the email bounty is likely to be potentially more damaging with Sabu releasing details of two of the Sun's top three employees, Rebekah Wade and Bill Akass, the former editors of the Sun and News of the World respectively as well as Lee Wells & Danny Rogers, Editorial Support Manager at News International and Sun Online Editorial Manager respectively, as a taster of what's coming next."

363 comments

  1. I love this by Ardeaem · · Score: 4, Funny

    This scandal keeps getting worse; it's like the "penis pump" scene from Austin Powers....

    1. Re:I love this by dintech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's good to see them getting a taste of their own medicine.

    2. Re:I love this by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      And payback will be a bitch.
      There is a problem with this eye for an eye mentality. It will come back to bite you back.

      Fine the CIA and FBI cannot find the people.... But a team of unethical reporters I am surprised they haven't knocked on the guys door yet to give him a well edited interview.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:I love this by tmosley · · Score: 1

      "How to Tap Voicemail Accounts for Fun and Profit" by Rupert Murdoch

      It's not mine, I swear!

    4. Re:I love this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Hacking Voicemail Accounts Is My Bag, Baby" by one Rupert Murdoch.

    5. Re:I love this by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      This just in, Rupert Murdoch was attacked!

      http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/19/uk.murdoch.attack/index.html

      with a plate full of shaving cream, not a knife or a gun :-(

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    6. Re:I love this by beardz · · Score: 1

      I wonder how much was paid on his behalf to have this orchestrated?

    7. Re:I love this by blair1q · · Score: 1

      It's populist claptrap, but legal stupidity.

      If you really want Murdoch brought down, poisoning the jury pool by releasing the evidence is the wrong way to do it.

    8. Re:I love this by MarkGriz · · Score: 2

      Oops... Seems Murdoch stepped in a big pile of shhhhh . . . aving cream

      --
      Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
    9. Re:I love this by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      Personally I would have loved for this to have just been a criminal investigation which is should be, but I do get a fair amount of satisfaction from seeing this happen to them.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    10. Re:I love this by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      That is the problem. As much as I enjoy this happening to them the harder fall will (may) be the convictions that could have come from this. I think it is the instant gratification vs. the delayed gratification issue. If I was going to give you $10 now or $100 in a couple of years what would you take?

      --
      Time to offend someone
    11. Re:I love this by geminidomino · · Score: 2

      Be nice and clean!
      Shave every day and you'll always feel keen...

    12. Re:I love this by blair1q · · Score: 1

      You didn't include enough zeroes to make a difference.

    13. Re:I love this by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      People keep saying that this disclosure would hamper a prosecution. Seriously, how? Whether you respond with a reference to legislation, or vague ruminations regarding jurors being influenced, you're either mistaken or have discovered a surprisingly little know get out of jail free card.

      Now, if Plod himself had been hacking emails then we have a different situation.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    14. Re:I love this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      burma shave ...?

    15. Re:I love this by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because Murdoch is totally going to trial.

    16. Re:I love this by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      You assume that any verdict in any jury trial will matter at all. If a Murdoch spends a single day in jail I'll be flabbergasted, and will have far more respect for British jurisprudence than I do our own.

      Murdoch, according to last night's ABC news, is the thirteenth most powerful man in the world, right behind Putin. Nothing bad happens to people like that.

  2. Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    How could they do such a cruel thing to the good people at News of the World?!?!?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I think the correct phrase is:
      Pay back is a bitch.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    2. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

    3. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by zenjah · · Score: 1

      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

    4. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder if Anon and Lulzlzlz (what the fuck ever) realize that they are and have been doing the very same thing they are pissed at The Sun for doing. They just have different targets that in their minds, deserve it.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    5. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Funny but doesn't Anonymous do that exact same thing? I mean dumping users email addresses and password hashes hurts the users as well as the companies.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    6. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Senes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A kind word for an eye will leave you blind and your attackers unharmed. Some people just deserve having their asses kicked.

    7. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the best way to show someone that something is wrong is to have it happen to them. Perspective, now they has it.

    8. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep - releasing userid/passwords is the same thing as hacking into dead childern's voicemails for scoops.

    9. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Corporate addresses & passwords, big difference, my corporate email is actually not my own per company policy, so I don't have anything remotely personal it, most users are the same as me around here, some notably are not, oh well, read the employee handbook.

      Also, not sure why people are expecting these people to be pure white hat and benevolent. In comparison most computer break ins occur on non-targeted systems that happen to run a certain version of x software while the attacker is looking for x version of that software to fire off a vulnerability exploit.

    10. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by kcbnac · · Score: 1

      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is often crucified.

    11. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by hansraj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At the end of the game, The king and the pawn go back in the same box.

    12. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The phone hackers destroyed no property, deprived no owners of any of its use. I don't think there is any real harm here. As far the policing thinking that little girl might still have been alive, come on if she was dialing into her voice mail they should be all over the phone records to find out where from, the real story there is BAD POLICE work. Information wants to be free any secret you keep you have to work against entropy to keep that information concentrated with you otherwise it will diffuse. If you don't put energy into doing that then it will diffuse. IMHO its not News of the Worlds fault people selected weak voice mail PINs, its their fault.

      More like evidence was tampered.

      First, listening to voicemail often clears the "new voicemail" flag, and unless you're really anal, no one listens to every voice mail they have daily.

      Perhaps the bigger crime is the fact they destroyed evidence - the voice mailbox was full. They deleted voicemails to make room for more. Sure we can hope the reporters deleted the unimportant ones, but can you really be sure?

      Lulzsec at least isn't tampering with these things - these emails exist, and they're releasing it. They haven't come in, deleted emails or read unread email (and fail to reset them so the recipient never notices they haven't actually read the email yet).

      Yes, there were mistakes on all sides. But leaving my front door unlocked doesn't give anyone the right to enter my house, and especially not to go through my computer reading my email, answering machine/voice mail

    13. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by alex67500 · · Score: 1

      Off with their heads!!

    14. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      The phone hackers interfred with a search for a missing child. By deleting her voice mails it was assumed that she was still alive days later when the police checked.

      Forget the royal family parts they directly interefered and hampered the search for a missing child.

      For that alone they deserve everything they are getting.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    15. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

      Not unless the last guy is willing to put his own eye out. He should be able to evade 6 Billion blind people, right?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    16. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by VAElynx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What you have stated above is the philosophy of the coward (perhaps an anonymous one like yourself?) and the slave - yielding to evil without resistance and considering it a virtue.
      A world that is blind is still better than a world where only the wrongdoers keep their eyes, after all.
      As a wise man has said, All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

    17. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay. You tell me how you're going to stop someone from brute forcing your voice mail PIN, because there are all of ten thousand combinations. There are, naturally, going to be some combinations that are more easily obtained than others, but someone with a little patience can get through fairly quickly. And if they think your phone is interesting enough, they'll certainly be going about that.

      And by the way, deleting voice mails? Perhaps not illegal, but unethical as fuck. IMHO it's not the victims' fault that you're a bloody ignorant git, if's yours.

    18. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly - think of the children!

      Oh, wait, did you attempt to justify a morally ambiguous action by invoking the natural human instinct to protect and shelter children? I thought only dumb politicians were allowed to do that.

    19. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by tbannist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What about:
      1) Hacking the phones of the police officers investigating the phone hacking case?
      2) Bribing police officers for information on those same officers.
      3) Blackmailing some of those officers with information obtained by 1) and 2).
      4) Bribing the officers they couldn't blackmail in 3 to drop the case.
      5) Hacking the phones of politicians.
      6) Bribing police (and doctors?) for information on politicians.
      7) Using the information gained in 5) and 6) to dictate favorable legislation.
      8) Using his control of diverse news media to interfere with elections.
      9) Using the threat of interference to influence politicians

      There's a lot more to this case than just the phone hacking. Picking on "regular people" is what outraged a lot of people, but now they might actually pay attention to the other, more important, stuff.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    20. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      Nope. I am just playing the same trick that has been played a lot by politicians, media and corporations. What's wrong using the same logic now to differentiate and highlight the bigotry? Oh I see - you don't like it when it's against your argument.

      If you live by flawed logic, you die by flawed logic.

    21. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Blind Crucifier: Let me just put a nail through your hand here...ok, did I get it?
      One-eyed Victim: [with nail between two fingers] Yeah...err...ouch!
      Blind Crucifier: And the other hand...did I get that one?
      One-eyed Victim: Yeah...boy, that stings.
      Blind Crucifier: And now onto the feet.
      One-eyed Victim: But your partner already did them.
      Blind Crucifier: But he didn't tell me.
      One-eyed Victim: I'm looking right at them...I think I'd know if I had nails through my feet.
      Blind Crucifier: Okay...well, let that be a lesson to you.
      One-eyed Victim: Yeah...I've learned a lot [walks away]

    22. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Alyred · · Score: 1

      And... uh... a king is just two pawns stacked on top of each other. ...wait.

    23. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by joocemann · · Score: 0

      Personally I don't have a problem with Lulz or Newscorps phone hacking because I am naive and foolish.

      Fixed that for you. Now please quit voting, consuming, and also communicating your worthless thoughts to people.

    24. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they are and have been doing the very same thing they are pissed at The Sun for doing. They just have different targets that in their minds, deserve it.

      Gossips and whistleblowers are not the same thing.

      They are (in this case, at least) attacking a corporation which has been suspected of illegal activities.

      They are pissed at the Sun for violating the privacy of people who are not suspected of illegal activities, and for no other reason than the pursuit of profit.

    25. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

      That sounds great until a dude takes over the world with a pointy stick.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    26. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      Maybe. I do think that in a technical sense you're totally right. But in a political sense, releasing these emails is perhaps more akin to releasing the state dept cables. This release is going to change the way the police and politicians are able to cover this whole thing up. It's going to open the door on far more scrutiny from "legitimate press and blog" investigators, who may be able to hold wrongdoers in the emails to account publicly and therefore eventually legally.

      Hacking celebrities and royal family members to sell papers is somewhat different to releasing the Pentagon papers, state dept cables or these emails, I think. Even though the technical crime part might be the same..

    27. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One group did it for tabloid headlines and profit, the other did it to expose the truth and corruption in government. What they are doing seems quite a bit different to me.

    28. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      But the contents of the emails may now be in question. Lulzsec could just as easily plant emails as read them... It may just cause people to have to go back to tape but anything not backed-up could have its authenticity in question.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    29. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What NotW/The Sun/News International was doing was hacking into phones to obtain stories that were "of interest to the public" (ie provided entertainment) but was NOT "in the public interest" (ie didn't provide information to improve public life/inform the public).
      What anon/luz are have done is hack into email servers of companies which have been embroiled in a very serious scandal which has interfered with ongoing police investigations, bribed police, possibly lied to members of parliament, and has also got links to the prime minister himself. Knowing what went/goes on in such an organisation is of interest to the public and is in the public interest.

    30. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Wrong. It is the philosophy of the rule of law.

      These people haven't been convicted in a court of law of anything yet and to undertake this bit of vigilante justice is wrong and dangerous. I'm saddened to see such immature, and reprehensible actions are defended and even encouraged by nitwits like yourself.

      Argument over.

    31. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your attitude is similar to "let them eat cake" since it is all food. Anyway, dropping the bad analogy, the Sun took advantage of folks that were vulnerable and in pain, all so they could make an extra buck. Lulzsec is doing it for an extra laugh, but they aren't really hurting anyone directly. They are just exposing Rupert Murdoch's dirty laundry.

      If Murdoch is an honest guy, then not much will come of this.

    32. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by chispito · · Score: 1

      Nope. I am just playing the same trick that has been played a lot by politicians, media and corporations. What's wrong using the same logic now to differentiate and highlight the bigotry? Oh I see - you don't like it when it's against your argument.

      If you live by flawed logic, you die by flawed logic.

      None of what you said makes any sense.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    33. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      News of the World eh? Guess this has to be done...

      Quoth the Freddy:
      "Buddy, you're an old poor man
      Pleadin' with your eyes gonna make you some peace some day
      You got mud on your face
      You big disgrace
      Somebody better put you back into yo' place"

    34. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't really matter how many PIN combinations there are - there could have been 10 for all that matters. The issue here is unauthorized access to a protected resource via circumvention of security, also known as hacking. Regardless of how hard it was to hack these voice mail accounts, the actions taken by these journalists was still illegal.

    35. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Alyred · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also, don't forget one of the biggest accusations of illegal activity was that it appears that the police were bribed by representatives of Murdoch Corp. We'll see how that portion comes out in court, but it appears that it might have gone all the way to the top, hence the resignations of the chief of Scotland Yard. We may see even more as apparently, one of the editors of the News of the World during the time of the phone hacking/alleged bribery went to join the Prime Minister's cabinet.

    36. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is what happens when he law fails. Murdoch and his ilk cannot and will not be punished in our current system of law. Vigilante justice is wrong, but it is the only justice left to deal with these folks. If the law would do its job this would not happen.

    37. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, what about all that? It's the first I'm hearing about any of those things.

      What about:
      1) Journalists eating babies?
      2) Politicians worshipping Justin Bieber?

    38. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      So by that reasoning it's ok for someone to go around beating people up because you suspect them of being corrupt but it's not ok to beat someone up because of their color, or gender, or color of the hair or because you were paid to?

      Regardless of why you do it, you are still shooting people.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    39. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's ok if we rob you of your privacy? Thanks for the permission!

    40. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing in the world is right or wrong, only thinking makes it so.

      Also, you're an idiot.

    41. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Substitute beating people up for shooting. Incomplete change of analogies.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    42. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by slashing1 · · Score: 1

      As much as I like to see karmic justice for those responsible at News of the World, I don't believe gp's philosophy is that of "yielding to evil without resistance." Originally, the phrase "an eye for an eye" was a response to draconian punishments for legal offenses-- namely, penalties should be proportional to the harm. GP's concern of the whole world becoming blind is perhaps the recognition that we're all wrongdoers who deserve more punishment that we receive. Combined with gp's "two wrongs" statement, s/he probably believes that justice should be meted out by the governing authorities as opposed to vigilantes seeking direct retribution.

      Your claim that

      A world that is blind is still better than a world where only the wrongdoers keep their eyes, after all.

      is just a straw man that has some interesting philosophical implications, but I won't dwell on them here, because I don't believe we're close to such a world. Suffice it to say that I don't believe gp is advocating no punishment for the wrongdoers, nor is s/he advocating doing nothing personally, but rather acting through legal channels. Okay, enough trying to defend the AC.

    43. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In summary, you admit to having a double standard, which is exactly what I called you out on.

    44. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      A Whistler Blower is someone who has specific knowledge of wrong doing and brings it to light.

      Anon has no such specific knowledge other than what was reported and is already in the light. Yet they decide to go ahead and illegally hack into their system and steal informtion in the hopes of finding more evidence.

      Pretty long stretch to call them a whistler blower.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    45. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dicks have to sometimes fuck asses.

    46. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 2

      Hacking into accounts that are not yours is hacking into accounts that are not yours.

      Motivation is irrelevant.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    47. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by tendrousbeastie · · Score: 1

      Surely the police thought the phone was in play they should have been getting all the relevant info about who was accessing it from the network provider - e.g. cell tower, phone numbers, SIM numbers, IMEI numbers. They should have been able to catch this immediately.

      I apologise for my ignorance in advance - I'm English and yet I don't know UK law as I should.

    48. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lulzsec at least isn't tampering with these things - these emails exist, and they're releasing it. They haven't come in, deleted emails or read unread email (and fail to reset them so the recipient never notices they haven't actually read the email yet).

      How can you or anyone else know that?

      Yes, there were mistakes on all sides. But leaving my front door unlocked doesn't give anyone the right to enter my house, and especially not to go through my computer reading my email, answering machine/voice mail

      More like a-holes on all sides. Murdoch & co. and Lulzsec are both immoral gangs of crooks. Lulzsec at least more-or-less admits that what they're doing is wrong, but that doesn't make me any less desirous of seeing the lot of them brought to justice.

    49. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So you won't mind then if I break into your home, rape your wife, kill your children and kick your dog. After all, there is no Right or Wrong.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    50. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I know, but it's just that we trust them more than "the authorities."

    51. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by kiwimate · · Score: 2

      Err...I'm confused. Help me out here.

      Lulzsec at least isn't tampering with these things

      So it's okay, or at least tolerable, if they go in somewhere they're not allowed, so long as they just look and don't destroy or modify? Okay...

      leaving my front door unlocked doesn't give anyone the right to enter my house

      Ah, it's not okay then. Even if they just look around and don't touch anything?

    52. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      " the actions taken by these journalists/Anon/Lulzsec was still illegal."

      There, cleared it up a bit for ya.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    53. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by BinarySolo · · Score: 1

      Not unless the last guy is willing to put his own eye out. He should be able to evade 6 Billion blind people, right?

      Oh sure, evading 6 billion blind people is easy enough, but what about 7 billion???

    54. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, I think it is more severe to hack and release the emails of a company/person facing both civil and criminal charges/actions.

      Now all the internal email and communications that could be subpoenaed to discover the depth of this scandal and criminal or civil liability can be questioned for it's legitimacy. after all, their servers were hacked and some activist group had complete control over them for an unspecified period of time in which they covered their tracks making it difficult to know exactly what they did while in control of it.

      So in court, it would go like this, well, MR CEO, did you tell the reporter to hack the voice mail as is stated in this document? You Honor, I have never ordered anyone to do anything of the sort, it was not a company policy and if it was know, the people responsible would have been reported to the authorities and terminated, that accusation is a fabrication created by an activist group calling itself anonymous who hacked our servers and planted evidence of what they wanted the case to become.

      But the investigators have this email sent from your computer. Well, your honor, those documents were retrieved by investigators after the activist group had illegally accessed our servers and one of our IT staff showed us how these headers and identifying information can be fabricated like in this example that looks very realistic as if it was an email you sent under your court email account but from a Disney world resort 3000 miles away and 5 minute into the future from now. IF this was planted on the courts servers by an activist group, would it be evidence that you went to Orlando Florida instead of presiding over this hearing?

      The judge would then order the evidence after the break in unreliable unless supported by something the activist group did not hack into. This would likely result in only low level employees who admitted to the deeds getting into trouble.

    55. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not like any of this is secret. Go open Google News, or turn on a damn TV (Murdoch and crew were being interrogated by British MPs on TV not long ago, might still be)

    56. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by blair1q · · Score: 2

      Murdoch's employees, owing to Murdoch's leadership, believed they lived in a world where laws against hacking and bribing didn't exist, and therefore hacked everyone they were curious about and bribed everyone they were not curious about, in the common goal of gathering salacious information about people they were curious about. And they also believed they lived in a world where blackmail was not illegal, so once they had this curious information, they felt no reason not to use it, even if it meant the manipulation of multiple democracies.

      I'd like to see these hypotheses tested in a court of law. Preferably before Emperor Palpatine dies.

    57. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Both groups do it for both those reasons (albeit Anonymous' system for turning the profit is far less well-developed); you just happen to agree politically with one of them.

    58. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      True, however I think there is some moral distinction between a corporation hacking into the private communications of a large number of people, including victims of crime and a missing [later found to be murdered] girl, in order to scoop headlines for papers that they sell for profit; and a non-profit organisation hacking into the same corporation and exposing their work-related emails - particularly given that said corporation has been vehemently denying such actions for a number of years, and possibly paying off senior law enforcement officers in order to cover up the crimes. Both may be illegal, but I think it's entirely rational to condemn the actions of the corporation whilst tacitly condoning the actions of Anon/Lulzsec.

    59. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by uglyduckling · · Score: 0

      Wow, you're pretty keen on defending NoW, what's in it for you?

    60. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      That's right, no action should be judged in the light of its circumstances and moral context; all actions should be strictly interpreted to the letter of any applicable law. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

    61. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      Yes, it was a troll reply to your troll comment about children.

      Just because I mentioned somebody hacked into dead kid's vmail automatically makes it "think of the children"?? WTF?

    62. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Still, neither were relevant.

    63. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Some people have been convicted and already serving time. The scandal broke when the world learned that the phone hacking was not limited to celebrities and that police may have been bribed to look the other way. The first question is whether the same persons serving time are responsible for all of it or was it a wider plan. The second question is when did the management know about the hacking.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    64. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      There's active and passive resistance. The guy in front of the tanks in Tienanmen couldn't harm the soldiers, but was he a coward?

    65. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by chicago_scott · · Score: 1

      Numbers 1-7 deal with the police. Law enforcement in Britain and the United States have been given unprecedented, unchecked power in the past 10 years. Believe me, with the possible exception of a couple sacrificial lambs, if there's one group that will come out virtually unscathed in this case it's law enforcement.

    66. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      the other did it to expose the truth and corruption in government

      No, they cherry-pick their targets in order to support their own agenda. They are anything but universal or unbiased in their witch hunts, cracking, and playing with sensitive information. You are complaining about people working at some layer in a media business doing something, and then pretending that other people with their own specific agenda should be allowed to determine the applicability of the law when it comes to their own cracking. Hypocrites don't make for good saints, you know?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    67. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

      The original meaning of the phrase "eye for an eye" -- shortened from various forms in the Hebrew Bible: e.g. "fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth", "life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe", etc. -- means the punishment should fit the crime and is used in the context of lawful punishment for harm inflicted on someone.

      Contrary to what Ghandi may have thought, the phrase does not refer to vigilante justice or revenge.

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    68. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Ruke · · Score: 1

      You see, this is how a democracy works: You either agree with me, or don't vote.

    69. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by flyingsquid · · Score: 1
      What you have stated above is the philosophy of the coward (perhaps an anonymous one like yourself?) and the slave - yielding to evil without resistance and considering it a virtue. A world that is blind is still better than a world where only the wrongdoers keep their eyes, after all. As a wise man has said, All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

      We've already seen the arrest of Rebekah Brooks, one of the top executives in Murdoch's media empire, and Neil Wallis, former editor of the News of the World. In fact, ten people have already been arrested in connection with the case, and two high-ranking members of Scotland Yard have stepped down. In this case, the legal system appears to have been working just fine before Anonymous stepped in.

      So in this case, it's sort of like running up to someone who's just been put in handcuffs by the cops, smacking them upside the head with a two-by-four, and then claiming you're a crime fighting vigilante.

    70. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Ok so since I have a blog would you mind if I wandered over to your house opened your garage (if your car is there) and did a complete inspection on it and then held it up as an example of the poor care you take of your car. All without your knowledge. Now I wouldn't be depriving you of anything only uncovering information. Also you wouldn't mind if I popped the locks on your car so it can't be my fault for unlocking your vehicle since obviously you are using the weak locks provided by the manufacture.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    71. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Ruke · · Score: 2

      So by that reasoning it's ok for someone to go around beating people up because you suspect them of being corrupt but it's not ok to beat someone up because of their color, or gender, or color of the hair or because you were paid to?

      Absolutely! Vigilante justice, while illegal and inappropriate where there is a legitimate justice system, is unequivocally morally superior to racially-motivated hate crimes. Do you really even have to ask this question?

    72. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is where the true issue is. Also for those of you who really like a good conspiracy the whistle blower was found dead and police ruled that it wasn't suspicious.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    73. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      The phone hackers destroyed no property, deprived no owners of any of its use. I don't think there is any real harm here. As far the policing thinking that little girl might still have been alive, come on if she was dialing into her voice mail they should be all over the phone records to find out where from, the real story there is BAD POLICE work.

      I consider tampering with evidence and changing the entire nature of the investigation as harm. By accessing her voicemail, the phone hackers changed her case from missing person/kidnapping case to a missing person/runaway case. How many leads did the police not pursue because they thought the girl was a runaway? I don't know the details of what the police did or did not do so I cannot elaborate on their effectiveness but unlike TV shows depict, the police do not have access to 100% of the information instantly. And such information may not have been easy to get in 2003.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    74. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And who is to judge? Our political and legal institutions which were set up to do so and duly represented by the people?

      Or a bunch of low life trolls living in their mother's basements, who spend 50% of their time watching porn and the other 50% breaking into other people's accounts?

    75. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Cragen · · Score: 1

      Sweet. I have never heard one. Very nice. I really like that. (Can't mod you up so am belaboring the point.)

    76. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And:

      10) Hacking into the voice mail of a murdered school girl giving her parents false hope that she was alive.

    77. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And instead of being permission to do that much retribution, it is a restriction on taking retribution so that the punishment is equal to the damage done. If someone pokes your eye out, God was commanding that you may not kill them and their family for justice.

      Jesus would then take it a step further and introduce the concept of loving your enemies and doing good by them. If is from this sermon on the Mount from which we get 'going the extra mile' where Jesus suggested that when a Roman soldier commanded you to carry his gear 1 mile (which they were allowed to do), you could then carry it an extra mile as an act of love. Some have phrased it as 'the first mile is slavery, the second mile is freedom'.

    78. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      The phone hackers destroyed no property, deprived no owners of any of its use. I don't think there is any real harm here.

      I assume you have no problem with the government spying on your communications, after all they aren't destroying any property or depriving you from its use.

      But what would one except from a libertarian who supports colonialism and calls stem cell research "murdering babies".

    79. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      The original meaning of the phrase "eye for an eye" -- shortened from various forms in the Hebrew Bible: e.g. "fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth", "life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe", etc. -- means the punishment should fit the crime and is used in the context of lawful punishment for harm inflicted on someone.

      Contrary to what Ghandi may have thought, the phrase does not refer to vigilante justice or revenge.

      Or... Jesus...

      I do believe it was that dude who discouraged 'eye for an eye' somewhat in advance of Mr Ghandi. You could argue that the frustration of true believers as a result of this imposed ethic leads to greater injustices today, but I'll leave that to people better schooled in such matters.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    80. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by VAElynx · · Score: 1

      When you say "A" say "B" as well. Rebekah Brooks was released on bail IIRC, besides, interestingly , the whistleblower of the whole mess was very conveniently found dead.
      If you expect the guy who has been put on handcuffs will be released in a few hours, then smacking him is totally understandable
      Apropos, they released the corporate emails. If we are to go by the philosophy the american government is trying to push in the last decade at least, if they are otherwise honest and innocent, not much bad will happen to them out of that, right?

    81. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      That's true, so long as all the staff inside the company, like the IT guys and off-site storage company managers are willing to put their liberty at risk for no reason by covering up all traces of these emails from their internal systems, so as prevent a legitimate legal inquiry from discovering the same information in a way that would be admissible in a court of law.

      Look, once the cat is out of the bag, it's very very hard for someone to say "I did not write that email" b/c then if the court can find that in fact they did write the email, they're going down for perjury, even if they get off on the original offense. I suspect most defense lawyers at the caliber that will be involved are not going to dispute the emails' authenticity if they are authentic, they will fight this on other grounds.

      So disclosure of these emails is almost certainly going to allow the public and press to understand who did what and when, and it will force the hand of both prosecutors and defense attorneys, as well as investigators. My opinion is that this will be a good thing, in exactly the same way that Deep Throat was a good thing, in terms of bringing down Nixon and exposing his illegal behavior. Without that public disclosure, almost certainly nothing like Nixon's resignation would have occurred: he was too powerful. Murdoch's empire is *somewhat* comparable in terms of how far out of reach of normal legal processes this organization is.

    82. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    83. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by hldn · · Score: 1

      excuse me but you are mistaken. one group did it for tabloid headlines and profit, the other did it for the lulz.

      --
      http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    84. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One group did it for tabloid headlines and profit, the other did it for the lulz. What they are doing seems quite a bit different to me.

      FTFY

    85. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by AlamedaStone · · Score: 2

      Err...I'm confused. Help me out here.

      Lulzsec at least isn't tampering with these things

      So it's okay, or at least tolerable, if they go in somewhere they're not allowed, so long as they just look and don't destroy or modify? Okay...

      leaving my front door unlocked doesn't give anyone the right to enter my house

      Ah, it's not okay then. Even if they just look around and don't touch anything?

      Wellll you know it's interesting - I think it was stupid for LS to get into this business, but I'd rather have them doing it, in general, than not. Maybe it's the honesty of the thing? They cop to it immediately, often before it is discovered by other means. Certainly they're assholes, but I'd rather have groups like this charging into the shadows of potential wrongdoing than wait for justice from a system riddled with corruption. What happens next is someone starts poisoning the data, and then things become indefensible.

      I'm still puzzling out my position, really. Until I make up my mind though, I'd rather they have at it on the off-chance we actually get some real information from these untouchable organizations like News Corp.

      Actually, I'd like to see a LOT more information coming out of (e.g.) AIG, BoA, Citigroup, and so on. Sadly, we can't vote those policy makers out of office, but a little sunlight would be good for the world right now.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    86. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Let me Fix that for you

      "What NotW/The Sun/News International was doing was hacking into phones to obtain stories that were "of interest to the public" (ie provided entertainment) but was NOT "in the public interest" (ie didn't provide information to improve public life/inform the public).
      What anon/luz are have done is hack into email servers of companies which have been embroiled in a very serious scandal which has interfered with ongoing police investigations, bribed police, possibly lied to members of parliament, and has also got links to the prime minister himself and in the process compromised the legitimacy of any evidence that could be found within emails or communications stores on the servers they illegally access and manipulated for their own activist goals. Knowing what went/goes on in such an organisation is of interest to the public and is in the public interest but is sadly a lot harder from a communications forensics point or view to prove now that an activist group illegally gained access to the communications for it's own agenda and purpose."

      In the end, we have the word of "a group of activist who want to remain hidden, that participated in illegal actions by accessing these servers without permission or proper oversight who also altered some documents on them to further their own goals, when they claim they did nothing to tamper with the evidence at hand" verses the words of "a company accused of wrong doing who was illegally hacked by an activist organization who altered some contents on that server and hid their tracks".

      The loser in this mess, the public who does have an interest in the unbiased truth. the winners, anonymous who got their names in the news yet again, the newspaper org, the police and politicians who can now claim the emails were a plant, altered, or distorted and do not reflect reality with the proof that they were by the public acknowledgment of an activist organization.

    87. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Well since they didn't kill the child or even do any real harm to said child of course you do have the harm to the parents and the disruption to teh investigation vs the possible harm financial harm to thousands of people I can see your point. What Anon did was worse.
      It would seem exploiting bad security and releasing the resulting date is a bad thing at all times. Only a fool and or hypocrite would praise on while damning the other.

      "Yep - releasing userid/passwords is the same thing as hacking into dead childern's voicemails for scoops."
      Oh so you mean like Wikileaks did with all the text messages from 9/11?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    88. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Grumbleduke · · Score: 1

      Not unchecked powers - only in May an English court told the police off for acting illegally by keeping someone under arrest for more than 4 days (the legal limit) without charging them.

      Of course, the police complained about the "bizarre" ruling, claiming it would lead to the release of 80,000 criminals (or rather, suspects) including "murderers, rapists and paedophiles" (interestingly, only two of those are criminal) and asked the government to change the law, completely overriding established constitutional principles. Oh, and it has taken 25 years for someone to spot that what they've been doing was illegal.

      It took a week for the bill to get through the UK Parliament.

      Sources:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13970159
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009917/Emergency-bail-law-needed-says-Policing-Minister-Nick-Herbert.html
      http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/policedetentionandbail.html

    89. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newspapers are governments now?

    90. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      Murdoch's employees, owing to Murdoch's leadership, believed they lived in a world where laws against hacking and bribing didn't exist, and therefore hacked everyone they were curious about and bribed everyone they were not curious about, in the common goal of gathering salacious information about people they were curious about. And they also believed they lived in a world where blackmail was not illegal, so once they had this curious information, they felt no reason not to use it, even if it meant the manipulation of multiple democracies.

      I'd like to see these hypotheses tested in a court of law. Preferably before Emperor Palpatine dies.

      I'd much rather he just die. He stands in contention for single most corrosive force to modern democracy in the world today. He set up a kiosk selling hatred and lies on the grave of the Fourth Estate. We're better off without him entirely.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    91. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I've not heard about anon and lulzsec hacking dead people's phones? Or hacking the phones of bereaving relatives so they can harass them more effectively in order to get stories? I've not heard about them bribing MP's and Police investigators. I'm also fairly certain that no-one has ever placed any level of trust in Anon or Lulz, at least not the same amount of trust we place in the Police, Parliament and even the Papers (there's not much trust there, but at least slightly more than we can ever offer Murdoch again).

      If you have please tell us? If not stop trolling or get some fucking perspective.

    92. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

      Ah, it's not okay then. Even if they just look around and don't touch anything?

      From his own reasoning, it sounds like the intruder can touch things, as long as they put it back as it was. So if they reset that voicemail? Then, no problem.

      Of course, it takes an awful bit of trust for a completely anonymous organization that only exists to break laws, to assume that everything is exactly as they say it is. Apparently for at least half of the Slashdot crowd, that is not a big stretch for some reason.

    93. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by elashish14 · · Score: 2

      Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
    94. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's trolling to point out your flawed argument, especially considering the amount of hate the "think of the children" excuse gets on this website. If Fox can't use it to justify the right-wing-cause-du-jour, then you can't use it to justify anon's hacking.

      Just because I mentioned somebody hacked into dead kid's vmail automatically makes it "think of the children"?? WTF?

      Look at the context - the person you replied to said "anon and NotW did the same thing". You saracstically disagreed, and pointed out a few differences, including the fact that children were targeted. Why bring up the children, if you didn't mean to imply what I inferred? My conclusion is that your brief sarcastic response was an excuse for anon's actions based partially on NotW's treatment of children - hence my reply.

    95. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Why doesthis throw things into doubt? If they've been keeping emails for several years then there are probably multiple backups.

      Also remember the UK is not the US, we don't exclude evidence at the drop of a hat. And at this point the company is looking filthy as f*ck, they cannot get away with playing the victim here.

    96. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Well, in my experience, a lot of people will do a lot of things if the money is good enough. But here is a major problem, if anonymous hides their tracks to remain anonymous, then how can you trust any server or backup of any server after a point of any signs of any intrusion?

      And here is another situation you need to consider, well before the person tells a court, I did not write that email, the lawyer gets it removed from evidence unless the prosecutor or plaintiff can prove it's legitimacy from sources outside those compromised servers. That's something that would be very hard to do and simply altering a time stamp on those emails in the personal computers of the accused can reinforce the illegitimacy of the communications meaning it will not be in evidence.

      This differs from the cables release in that you do not have someone to testify that they did not alter anything. You have a group to acted illegally and wish to remain secret so now the onus is not on providing the emails/communications, but proving they were not altered in the process of obtaining them. And fortunately/unfortunately, in some jurisdictions, the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine could prevent the documents from ever being used in court if it can be shown that law enforcement was involved in the hacking and disclosure without properly obtaining a warrant. And since Anonymous wants to remain anonymous, a low level cop can say he had a criminal who was facing severe jail time do it to get around getting a warrant then it becomes a he said she said situation with little accountability. As I already said, a lot of people will do a lot of things for a lot of money. How much "a lot" is defined to each individual too so it might not even be a lot by our definitions.

      As for Nixon, You need to look into that a little better. Nixon doesn't seem to be behind any of the accusations by Deep Throat, he was mostly guilty of trying to keep it hidden once he learned of it after it happened. the most damning evidence against him was a taped conversation with an 18 minute gap in it.

    97. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Meh, these are tabloids, they're punishing people in the court of public opinion without a shred of evidence.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    98. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

      A riposte from the past (Voltaire) for your apocryphal quote:

      A witty saying proves nothing

    99. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      This is what happens when he law fails. Murdoch and his ilk cannot and will not be punished in our current system of law. Vigilante justice is wrong, but it is the only justice left to deal with these folks. If the law would do its job this would not happen.

      Isn't this exactly the reasoning used by every terrorist, including McVeigh and bin Laden? I'm not saying it can't be right, but there damn well better be more to it than "They've put themselves above the law (IMHO) so we can do anything we want to them." Things such as proportional response to crimes, presumption of innocence, and unwillingness (or at least a strong abhorrence) to harm innocents in pursuit of the guilty all come to mind. Otherwise your vigilante cure is worse than the disease.

      IMHO, resorting to vigilantism represents a loss of faith in the governing system we've established for society. I prefer to work towards solutions for these types of problems by trying to modify the system. Yes it can be hard, and a few guilty people might get off meanwhile, but the system will be made stronger and (hopefully) prevent recurrences. Vigilante action is tantamount to saying the system is so broken that there's no point trying to save it, and what's needed is revolution. We have to destroy the village in order to save it.

    100. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by hrimhari · · Score: 1

      Interesting line of defense... "Sir, that's not my email! It must have been planted by a hacker!"

      And the worst part is that it could raise a reasonable doubt.

      --
      http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
    101. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The moderators don't agree with you.

    102. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by tbannist · · Score: 1

      If you care to know more, you might start by reading this article. There's been a lot of talk recently about how Murdoch has been abusing his power since Margaret Thatcher's time in office.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    103. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      Tell it to the Bard, dude.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    104. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      It sure is. I am not saying they were right to do this, only explaining their motives. The same way one would explain what other terrorists thought as they did their actions. I do not support what they have done.

      I agree it does indicate a loss of faith in government. While I agree a work towards solutions would be nice, I am not naive enough to believe it can or will happen.

      The simple fact is since time immemorial the law did not apply to the aristocracy, nothing has changed. You can either accept that or not, but nothing will change it for any real length of time. Revolution will fix it for a very short time, but then those leaders will become just as corrupt as those they deposed.

    105. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by PraiseBob · · Score: 1

      It's actually a quote from Gandhi. I wouldn't call him a coward myself. He repeatedly planned and went to protests where the protesters were beaten and shot. He went unarmed, knowing that he was in mortal danger, and chose nonviolence because he believed it would save the lives of others, even if it cost his own. Most historians agree and feel that he saved hundreds of thousands of lives through his bravery.

      You can call him a coward if you like, but you cannot say he yielded to evil and went along with it.

    106. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by VAElynx · · Score: 1

      Really? For one, it wasn't him but the people who *didn't* believe in nonviolence and who he was containing barely calmed that were why the british backed off. It saved lives, sure ,but only was able to do so because of the implicit threat of violence that was behind it.

      And not being evil... the man was a fan of german fascists, and as such i don't like him at all. India has many more revolutionary heroes of far better character

    107. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...that you know of.

      Problem is, they just made the prosecution's job a lot harder now.

      The defense attorney(ies) can now point to it and fairly claim that the evidence was tampered with... and the prosecution team now has to explain to the jury what backups are, how they work, and hope/pray that the data from the backup tapes aren't corrupted (since, like most IT departments, the original IT team probably hasn't tested any of it past the usual checksum at the end of the initial backup run).

      /P ( posting anon to keep the spent mod points intact )

    108. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In principle you're right, but the people doing the investigation are the police, and some amongst them have been bribed / implicated. Plus the number one witness, a whistleblower, can't testify anymore because he's been found dead yesterday.

      " Mr Hoare had told the New York Times hacking was far more extensive than the paper acknowledged when police first investigated hacking claims.
      Sean Hoare also told the BBC's Panorama phone hacking was "endemic" at the NoW.
      A police spokesman said the death was currently being treated as unexplained, but was not thought to be suspicious."

      I'm sure the police will investigate his sudden death...

    109. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'll bite. What is Anonymous selling?

    110. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who was the whistleblower that you're referring to?

    111. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by PraiseBob · · Score: 1

      The British backed off primarily because they lost the support of people back home, and the political will to continue. They didn't lose in battle, and weren't going to lose in battle. It simply would have cost too much money to make the fight worthwhile. The British could have slaughtered any resistance, and Gandhi holding them back saved their lives, not British lives.

      I'm not sure why you think he was a fan of Germany. He wrote to Hitler asking him to stop the violence, and advocated the Jews respond with a non-violent movement. He very clearly rejected was Hitler was doing once the violence started.

    112. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it is in the world you're living in, which may explain why you have such twisted priorities.

    113. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize that you are wondering whether punishment is hypocritical, right?

    114. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The prosecution's job is made harder, hopefully by increased public pressure to actually prosecute News International to the full extent of the law.

    115. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Twisted? What's twisted about rule of law? Twisted is your preference for laws that you think only apply to other people, and reserving law-breaking for your own axe grinding and political agenda. How about you apply system cracking laws uniformly, and leave your Thought Police stuff back where it belongs?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    116. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      You act as if the IT staff was absolutely incompetent and didn't make backups. That's highly unlikely. They should have backup tapes going back close to a year.

    117. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So who, pray tell, in Anonymous are becoming filthy rich from exposing corruption in the government? Yes, there are T-shirts and coffee-mugs, they serve a purpose as PR material, and the odd buck scraped together through donations are put to use in the campaign.

      It is a decentralized idea, so there is no accounting department.

    118. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Do you imagine that Anomymous acquires only the information it releases to the public? Or that it only acquires information?

    119. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      Are you're saying Nixon didn't resign b/c Congress was going to impeach him on charges of authorizing the break-in to Watergate? And that Deep Throat wasn't dishing on that specific issue in back channel to WaPo reporters?

    120. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      "motive" - look it up in the dictionary.

    121. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good attempt at equivocation. But no, it's not quite the same, regardless of your political orientation.

      Meanwhile, Anonymous is not hacking innocent peoples' email accounts. It is hacking guilty peoples' email accounts.

    122. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I didn't know that you could know peoples true motives. It must be great to look into people's soul like that. If course if you are only going to judge people by their motives, I suggest you learn an important lesson. Every villain is the hero of their own story.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    123. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      IMHO, resorting to vigilantism represents a loss of faith in the governing system we've established for society

      That is exactly where we are at today. There is no good reason why anyone should have a shred of faith in our governing system.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    124. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      The same (not knowing the motive) then applies to you too - how do you know true motive of anonymous? And because you can not know it, you can not take stand against or for them.

      Such arguments are self-defeating. That's the lesson for you.

    125. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as Anonymous keeps going after scummy crooks like this, who cares if they profit. Everyone wins.

      Besides, hacking a girl's cell phone to mislead police and make her think she's still alive is a far cry from releasing someone's emails. One is life and death. The other is only face-losing embarrassment (assuming they have something to be embarrassed about).

    126. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      This is true, if the tapes weren't accessible from the machines that were hacked or someone picked the right person in the IT staff and paid them to make it look like it was.

      I mean common, I described a way that they could get the evidence tossed aside or have somewhat of a plausible deniability over something we pretty much know they did. Erasing the backup tapes or claiming there was a worm implanted during the break-in that caused them to be erased when restoring the systems is not out of the question is it?.

    127. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      No, I'm saying that there is not a lot of evidence that Nixon was involved in any illegal activity outside of hiding things from congress. Him resigning is by no means an admission of guilt to everything surrounding Watergate. Some people make the case that Clinton and Bush were in the same boat to the extent of wrong doing- except they refused to step down. Clinton certainly rode out the impeachment storm by distracting the populous over what it was about.

    128. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Lets present something similar for you to think about. Suppose you owned a gun, this gun was uses to attempt the murder of someone you know. Now suppose the police found the gun near the crime scene and someone recognized it as your gun. Now, you look pretty guilty don't you. Your probably the prime suspect. Now what if the person who recognized the gun also told the cops you hated the person who was almost killed by the gun and offered some communications as evidence. Not quite the same yet is it. Well, now we will suppose that your home was broken into why you were away on holiday and you kept the gun in a drawer that anyone could access easily. Let's also assume that there were 5 other sets of fingerprints on the gun besides yours, but all can be accounted for because they have handled the gun within your presence.

      You swear it wasn't you who did it, and you swear that you didn't hate the person who was shot at with your gun. You also swear that the email claiming that you hated the person wasn't sent by you even though it came from your home computer the same day you took your vacation. All the evidence pointed to you until someone else had an opportunity to gain possession of the gun, the means to send an email from your personal computer, and manipulate the ways the evidence is seen in context with a very big crime. But once all the facts are in, it's obvious that someone set you up- or attempted to make it look that way. So how reliable is this circumstantial evidence now?

      Now suppose that someone saw someone in a brown overcoat just outside the gate right before the gun shots were heard. This brown overcoat is found in the guys possession who has been so helpful to the police already. He claims that he took it from your home without your knowledge after hearing about the reports of the guy in the brown coat and the police find it has gun powder residue on it. That's it, you did it right? Or is there reason to suspect all this evidence pointing to your guilt?

      What anonymous has essentially done is created a path way to cause doubt on the weight of the evidence. So the company destroys the backups by paying a IT staffer a bonus and offering him a job at one of the other rags they produce, he destroys the backups claiming it was anonymous in their hacking efforts to retrieve the emails and take control of the servers. Now, were is your proof? Oh, you mean the proof that the activist group who will not identify themselves released in their attempt to further their own agenda?

      Also remember, there are accusations that this voice-mail hacking happened with victims and first responders at 9/11 too. So the US could have a means for prosecution as well as the country of nationality of anyone else killed in the attacks.

      The company can look filthy as hell, and still use this lost chain of custody concerning the evidence to their advantage. Even if it's discovered the backups were deleted after the release of information, they can still claim anonymous hacked them and did it to make them look guilty of more then what they have already admitted to.

    129. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Then they can at the least be charged with destruction of evidence and perverting the course of justice, which are not trivial offences.

      I'd be more sympathetic to your elaborate scenario if it had been shown that the police had declined to investigate the murder at least once and were thought to be on the take from the suspect, as we have here.

      Also the overcoat thing is a nonsense because, while possession of the overcoat as a tangible item casts suspicion on the new possessor, the same cannot be said of lulzsec.

      In fact pretty much none of your analogy fits what's going on here at all.

    130. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by joocemann · · Score: 1

      You see, this is how a democracy works: You either agree with me, or don't vote.

      Some often argue for very basic level political tests before people can vote; the idea is so that the democratic effort is available to all, but all that choose to partake must at least have an elementary understanding of reality (at least in the politic).

      I'm just saying that this guy is clearly naive and should not be voting (because voting like that is how we get 8 years of president budweiser).

    131. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Charge who? You are "assuming" that the emails are truthful representations of real events. That very fact is brought under contention by Anonymous "hacking" them and gaining access to their servers and electronic documents to suit their own purposes. Sure, they could charge anonymous, if they knew who anonymous was.

      This also has everything to do with the scenario because you were the one who actually attempted to murder the person. the other idiot feeding the cops information was just there to throw doubt into the accusations against you. You bought it hook line and sinker when you concentrated on the idea that possession of the coat made someone else suspicious. why did it make him look suspicious, because he had access to all the information that incriminated you while you denied everything and had some plausible excuse to how it could have been someone else.

      It's the same thing when an activist organization illegally enters your property and takes things they claim were in your possession or makes statements about possessions of yours on the property in an attempt to further their own activist causes.

      Now don't get me wrong, I'm convinced they are guilty of this behavior. I'm sure you are too. But when in court, they have to keep an open mind, and they have to consider the weight of the evidence before it's introduced. The fact that someone broke into the property and then yelled, look here, look here, now look at us it's out agenda and we did it again, but you will never know who we are, puts a path to the doubt of that evidence clearly in the company's hands.

    132. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      Do you have any evidence that this is the case? Because I find it hard to believe that a for-profit criminal enterprise would seek publicity the way Anonymous consistently has.

    133. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by globaljustin · · Score: 1

      "Motivation is irrelevant."

      No it is definitely fsking relevant. Your logical error is false equivalence.

      An analogy: A person drives their car onto a sidewalk killing 5 and injuring dozens.

      The driver would be a murderer by your logic, since the motivation is irrelevant.

      I hope mods adjust your score down...you are definitely trolling

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    134. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not how it works, at least not in The Netherlands. If you make a claim like that to counter digital evidence against you, the onus is on you to provide backups that corroborate your alibi. Failure to produce said backups will not constitute reasonable doubt, not in the least because e-mail correspondence is considered part of a business' legal paper trail, and as such failure to produce it is a crime in itself.

    135. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as long as you won't mind me killing you.

    136. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by acoster · · Score: 1

      I still find hard to believe that Anonymous/Lulzsec (or whoever is the driving force behind it) is just doing it "for the lulz".

      (inb4, I know that Lulzsec and Anonymous are two separated things)

      --
      "Go forth, and be excellent to each other" --Bill & Ted
    137. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Things such as proportional response to crimes, presumption of innocence, and unwillingness (or at least a strong abhorrence) to harm innocents in pursuit of the guilty all come to mind. Otherwise your vigilante cure is worse than the disease."

      But therein lies the problem, vigilantism doesn't preclude these things, and that's fundamentally why I think it's a fair argument to say Lulzec are doing something relatively fair here, and Osama Bin Laden did not. Bin Laden did hit innocent people, and in fact, targetted purely innocent people. Ignoring Lulzec's past actions for now, is it really unfair that they would hack the e-mails of news of the world journalists when news of the world hacked over 4,000 innocent people's voicemail? Isn't that precisely the type of proportional response you're referring to?

      Doesn't the current system of law in fact fail in these areas? Aren't many sentences too lenient, whilst others too harsh? Why can killing someone in the UK through reckless driving net you a suspended sentence and hence no jail time, but chipping cable boxes to get free pay TV can get you 5 years? Is that proportional? Presumption of innocence has long gone out the window in Western society for some crimes.

      "Vigilante action is tantamount to saying the system is so broken that there's no point trying to save it, and what's needed is revolution. We have to destroy the village in order to save it."

      Well that's really what's happening in much of the world. Clearly it's happening explicitly in the Middle East and North Africa, but it's happening on a much more subtle level in parts of the west. In the UK things like the expenses scandal, a change to a hung parliament decreasing party powers for the first time in decade, and now the uncovering of the hacking scandal is ripping the establishment to pieces, but even globally one shouldn't underestimate the actions of the likes of Wikileaks etc.

      People really are fed up of the status quo, people genuinely do think the only option is for drastic change, and sure in some countries that's more pronounced than others, but most certainly there seems to be somewhat of a global revolution going on- people spent the last decade being shit on by their governments under the excuse of the war on terror and now people are fed up, they've had enough, and they're pushing back. Vigilantism against the ruling classes who have hoarded far too much power for themselves such that they were serving only themselves and their corporate friends, and not the people they are supposed to represent is one of many facets of that change.

    138. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just happen to be on the dinosaur's side.

      Spoiler : it doesn't end well.

    139. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      Maybe not, but three lefts do.

    140. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I missed the video of them perp-walking the Murdochs. Oh, they weren't arrested, only their patsies? And you believe justice was done?

    141. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      A witty saying may prove nothing, but often proof is not needed (or even wanted) for belief. Many a politician has been elected by a witty, yet untrue, sound bite.

    142. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      IMHO, resorting to vigilantism represents a loss of faith in the governing system we've established for society.

      Bingo! When the system of government obviously does not work, people have no recourse. When the rich say "let them eat cake" you have the likes of the French Revolution. When people have no say in a government that governs their lives, you have the likes of the American revolution. And BTW, the American revolutionaries were the terrorists; they didn't follow prescribed rules of war.

      If anything can be done to change the present system, why are people still imprisoned for growing a plant? I'm 59 and they've tried to legalize pot since I was a teenager. In fact, looking at it in hindsight (which I hope can be used as foresight to younger folks) the fact that we were so sure it would be legal "any day now" was one of the powerful's weapons against us.

      They are called the "fourth estate" for a very good reason. Nothing will happen to Murdoch, he's done his job well. He has stupid poor and middle class people voting for those who want to destroy them. His class uses racism as a weapon, pitting black against white when the struggle is really rich against poor. Example: blacks get jailed more often than whites. Not because blacks are all criminals or because cops are all racist, but because blacks are predominantly poor. Face it, nobody would object to Bill Cosby or Oprah Winfrey living next door to them, but nobody wants to live next door to people who are now living in the ghetto no matter what their color.

      To a rich man, "nigger" means "someone who has to work for his supper". Which is what "nigger" actually means and why it's so repugnant to blacks -- "nigger" means "slave". Less than human. To the Murdochs of the world, I'm a nigger despite my hazel eyes.

    143. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Are you trolling? I hope not, I hate biting trolls.

      So by that reasoning it's ok for someone to go around beating people up because you suspect them of being corrupt

      Suspect? SUSPECT? The hacks were proven.

      ...but it's not ok to beat someone up because of their color, or gender, or color of the hair or because you were paid to?

      Ugh, what's tat nasty taste?

    144. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      When the police and the government have been shown to be corrupt sometimes you have to take it into your own hands to reveal the truth. The police were being bribed as a matter of course and employed ex-NotW employees regularly.

      How does anonymous benefit financially?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    145. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      "Suspect? SUSPECT? The hacks were proven."

      I must have missed the trial and the sentencing.

      I guess we COULD save a lot of money if we just had people punish the perps before the trial if the evidence is there.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    146. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Ahh...I see how Anon just accidentally hacks into accounts because they were forced by another hacker or they were all in a diabetic coma. So I guess they can't be held accountable because it wasn't their fault.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    147. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      The Question is, who decides when it is morally superior? So do you just get to go around looking for hate crimes and pound the perps ass?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    148. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      leaving my front door unlocked doesn't give anyone the right to enter my house

      Perhaps not but at least here in the states the law recognizes that its less bad if someone does. If you leave your door unlocked and someone just decides to have a look around your place, but does not take or damage anything, they won't be in much trouble. They would be charged with trespassing which is much less serious than breaking and entering. Personally I think that is a correct distinction to make.

      Also when you make these comparisons to the physical world understand why the laws were created in the first place. Consider that burglary traditionally is defined to have to take place at night, while during the day the acts would be breaking and entering, at least at common law. Again burglary is more serious because of peoples expectations of feeling safe in their homes at night and the value that provides society. The issue with trespassing is that it would be a irritating to have people coming uninvited into your home. Breaking and entering, and burglary go to your feeling of safety.

      So if we are going to equate hacking your voice mail, or your e-mail with someone entering your home than we have to accept that people have the same expectation of safety with these things and I don't think many do.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    149. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      You really think Murdoch's going before a jury?

    150. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be very keen to learn how you believe that anonymous is making profit. I can't but read you to be claiming that they are (even if in a 'far less well-developed' way, whatever that means). Do tell!

    151. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I don't I just know their actions and judge them by there actions.
      1. Hacking NPR because they didn't like a story? That is anti free speech.
      2. Attacking the Epilepsy forums which is just being jerks.
      3. The attack on the teen that started the no Cussing club which was yet another attack on free speech.
      4. The attack on Sony which hurt not only the company but the users.
      in other words they attack whom every they don't like. They do it any way the want and feel that they are judge, jury and executioner.
      The problem with their supporters is they just dismiss their miss deeds are "harmless" or as "colateral damage". We do live in a free society still in the west. If you don't like what NPR had to say put up your own blog post saying why. Same if you do not like what Sony is doing.
      Only the young and the foolish think that this kind of vandalism is good for a free society.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    152. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mikechant · · Score: 1

      "Suspect? SUSPECT? The hacks were proven."

      I must have missed the trial and the sentencing.

      Yes, you did. Some NoW employees have already been tried, convicted and served time for some of the phone hacking.

      As for the rest, News International has effectively confessed to wide scale phone hacking (i.e. handing evidence to police saying 'here's whose phones were hacked'). Any trials will be more about police corruption, and possibly exactly *who* knew about/authorized hacking.
      The statement "The hacks are proven" is true.

    153. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It works a bit differently in the US for criminal cases, where the prosecution is required to prove that said defendant(s) committed the listed crime(s) beyond reasonable doubt. The defendant only has to show that there is indeed reasonable doubt... and claiming tampered data while showing news headlines of "hackers" wallowing around in said data is likely more than sufficient to do just that.

      This is part of why the whole Casey Anthony trial went the way it did... the prosecution got stupid and over-reached based on circumstantial evidence, and did nothing to sufficiently tie the defendant to the actual crimes (in her case murder and child abuse). /P (yeah, me again).

    154. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      When that publicity gets it free henchmen, donations, and apologists?

      No, I have no evidence that they are. However, I have no evidence they aren't, but we all have evidence they could be. And anyone wishing to can become a "member" of Anonymous can do anything they want with it. So even if some of them are altruistic, some of them may not be. The Sony breakin could easily be them.

      Cracking someone's security, copying lots of their stuff, then bragging you copied part of it and attributing it to civil disobedience? Misdirects the victims away from what you really stole, or gives them an opportunity not to admit it if they can tell. Lots of ways to profit in there, for lots of dishonest or antisocial people.

    155. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      No, I have no evidence that they are. However, I have no evidence they aren't

      Wow, that's amazing logic right there. You should apply for a job a Fox News, you'd make a great replacement for Glenn Beck.

    156. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Just keep presuming there are no bad people in the world just because you don't know any bad people.

      You'll be their favorite victim.

    157. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      Not making wild assumptions without evidence doesn't mean I think Anonymous are paragons of morality. But thank you for putting words in my mouth.

    158. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Maybe the people responsible will maybe they won't. You consider yourself the backup for the criminal and civil law? How nice to be able to decide for rouyself if justice was done. Just decide if you like the outcome and if not, flail away.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    159. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So then...you've decided that even though some NoW employees have been convicted and are serving time, you don't think that's enough. So you want to hack in and inflict damage. Nice...Judge Jury and executioner even after they have been judged, found guilty and are serving time.

      My, aren't you special..in a Short Bus kind of way.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    160. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'm not a vigilante, but if a vigilante corrects an injustice I'll cheer him on rather than condemn him.

    161. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes they do Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they commit an even worse injustice.

      That's the problem.

    162. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by mikechant · · Score: 1

      When you say "you don't think that's enough. So you want to hack in and inflict damage. Nice...Judge Jury and executioner even after they have been judged, found guilty and are serving time." I think you're confusing me with one of the higher level posters (mcgrew?) who might have justified such acts. Maybe you should go back and check who posted what.

    163. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too...many...posts!

    164. Re:Hacking innocent people's email accounts?!?!? by chicago_scott · · Score: 1

      Four days? A person shouldn't be allowed to be arrested by anyone until they can be charged with a crime. Anything less allows law enforcement to make arbitrary arrests solely for the purpose of intimidation.

  3. Compromising the investigation by Mushdot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I'm quite enjoying what Anonymous/Lulzsec are doing, I hope it does not compromise the criminal investigations that are to follow.

    1. Re:Compromising the investigation by BondGamer · · Score: 1

      This could absolutely compromise the investigations. If the emails are leaked the defense could possibly get them suppressed and made unusable in court.

    2. Re:Compromising the investigation by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hope it does not compromise the criminal investigations

      You mean the investigations that Scotland Yard has already swept under the rug and tried to kill several times? Yeah, we wouldn't want to compromise those thorough investigations by competent, unbiased police officers. Shit, I heard they're going to put Sherlock Holmes on it, just the make sure that Scotland Yard's unblemished reputation in this matter is upheld.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Compromising the investigation by adamchou · · Score: 2

      Under what law/rule would the defense be able to get them suppressed and made unusable in court?

    4. Re:Compromising the investigation by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      I hope it does not compromise the criminal investigations that are to follow

      You mean, these investigations?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Compromising the investigation by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      Who cares? The courts have already proven that they have no teeth against corporations. Hopefully this will hit them where it really hurts by demonstrating what a heap of shitheels these people are and they lose massive business which will impair their ability to buy political power in the future.

    6. Re:Compromising the investigation by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Informative

      Jurors who have been previously exposed to evidence, and who have encountered it in a context that isn't up to the non-prejudicial standards of the court, wouldn't be considered reasonably neutral. If certain messages are widely spread around in the public because Anonymous thinks their priorities and standards are more important than the prosecutors', then that could indeed make such evidence essentially unusable in court.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    7. Re:Compromising the investigation by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's not how it works in the US, I dunno about the UK (I assume you're from the US due to your spelling of defense).

      If the authorities made no effort to induce the illegal acquisition of the evidence, then it would still be admissable in US court AFAIK. The evidence if only tainted if the authorities, or someone acting at their behest (not a third-party with no link to the authorities), performs an illegal source. Chain of custody would be an issue, I would think, because it would have to be proven (more or less) that the emails were not altered after being lifted from NOTW's servers.

      *I know this from watching Perry Mason, Columbo, and Law & Order reruns; IANAL; YMMV; if you want legal advice consult a real lawyer; Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    8. Re:Compromising the investigation by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Consequences be damned! They have a point they want to make.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    9. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There will be no investigation. Can't you people understand that Murdoch is in bed with politicians and senior law officials all over the world to forward their agenda? There were a few heads rolling for some staff, who will soon be given jobs within Murdoch's propaganda machine elsewhere, and that will be it.

      His sleaze and lying rags have been doing the bidding or police to avoid corruption issues since the 80s in my lifetime and there's probably history before that.

      If you want to see someone squirm, go after Piers Morgan and put him on the spot. He was part of the deceit machine at one point, peddling BS and govt spin.

    10. Re:Compromising the investigation by adamchou · · Score: 1

      they were able to find jurors for the casey anthony case even though the case was so widely publicized. i'm sure they can find one for this case too, if need be.

    11. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Casey Anthony case was widely publicized after it started.

    12. Re:Compromising the investigation by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      I think that applies only to evidence obtained by the court. Not criminals turning evidence in against other criminals. e.g. Paedophile jailed after burglars with a conscience tip off police about child abuse pictures on stolen laptop ( new window )

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    13. Re:Compromising the investigation by __aagbwg300 · · Score: 2

      That's a more or less correct reading, based upon your exposure. However, there would be no chain of custody here because it went from the defendants, to a third party (Lulzsec) and then (presumably) to the authorities. (Proper chain of custody would be something like: scene of the crime -> lab technician -> detective -> prosecutor.) Instead, a prosecutor can take these emails along with additional evidence to get a warrant for the originals, thereby getting a "clean" set of evidence. The clean set would be admissible and likely devastating at trial.

    14. Re:Compromising the investigation by gnick · · Score: 1

      The search for her daughter was already national news, but not the details of the case - That's true.

      But think back a few years. How many people on the jury selected back in '95 were asking, "Wait... OJ who?

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    15. Re:Compromising the investigation by maxume · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure you don't need to disclaim expertise that you don't have.

      Or maybe that should be that you don't need to argue your own ignorance.

      Or something.

      Mostly, I think real actual lawyers gain a lot more from distancing their lawyer selves from comments than fake internet lawyers do by pointing out that they are only internet lawyers.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    16. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Can't you people understand that Murdoch is in bed with politicians and senior law officials all over the world to forward their agenda?"

      I would very much like to disagree. It is my view that politicians and senior law officials have been running scared of Murdoch for years/decades and have been forced pretty much into forwarding HIS agenda on the rest of us. In the UK at least the country has been pretty much run according to what the Sun / the NotW (/the Daily Mail) have been demanding (though not the Express as try as hard as they might they aren't going to get Diana back).
      Now that the bully's power has been removed everyone wants a piece of payback

    17. Re:Compromising the investigation by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're mixing the issues here. The fact that a jury pool has been tainted does not in any way affect the admissability of evidence.

      Whether or not the evidence is tainted depends on a few factors. First off, if the evidence is illegally obtained by a third party not under the influence of the authorities, the evidence is not automatically tainted. Chain of custody becomes an important issue, however, since the prosecution would have to pretty much prove that the evidence was not altered by the third party. However, the most important one to this example, I think, would be the exceptions to the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine. Namely, whether the authorities would have inevitably discovered these documents in the course of their investigations (assuming full compliance with warrant issued by the court). I don't think there is any way the authoities would NOT serve a warrant for those emails.

      There are of course other factors involved in whether the evidence is admissable. But a third party acting completely independently from the authorities acquiring evidence illegally does not make that evidence inadmissable, no matter whether or not it taints the jury pool.[1]

      And for what it's worth... without public outcry, it's quite possible that the alleged guilty parties at NOTW would enter a plea bargain and have the evidence suppressed (legally or extra-legally, they have a ton of influence). It's why this is such a big scandal... that's exactly what they've been doing for years. Public access to the information is the foundation of the only weapons we have against the government-corporate-media complex[2] that subverts the US democracy.

      [1] IANAL. If you want a real legal analysis, consult a real lawyer. YMMV. Half of what I know about law I learned from Perry Mason, Colombo, and Law and Order. The other half comes from researching topics relevant to slashdot discussion on the internet. Do not use my post as legal advice. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

      [2] I don't think I'm a conspiracy theorist, no matter how much that line makes me sound like one. It's obvious to me that US Legislators are far more beholden to the companies that pay their election bills and hire them once they are out of office than they are to the public; especially so for media companies, who by-and-large control what information the public has.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    18. Re:Compromising the investigation by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how your example applies. Did the burglars make all of that information widely public before the creepy guy was prosecuted? Because that's the issue, here.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    19. Re:Compromising the investigation by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      You're still missing the point. It's not about how many people knew or didn't know about Simpson, or even about the murders. It's about how much of the specific, detailed evidence in the case was hacked off of servers and made public by an agenda-driven group before a trial even started. Apples and oranges, here, conceptually.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    20. Re:Compromising the investigation by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm pretty sure my analysis is correct... but not 100% certain... so I put the disclaimer there to draw attention to the fact that I might very well be wrong, and to entice responses from people who could correct me if I am indeed wrong.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    21. Re:Compromising the investigation by DriedClexler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good point, that's how Batman is able help win legit convictions: he's not acting on authorization of the police, so when he leaves the criminals at the crime scene bundled up with the evidence, Gotham City can use all they found in court.

      I mean, if all that happened in real life.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    22. Re:Compromising the investigation by maxume · · Score: 0

      Sure. I'm just sick of seeing it, mostly because I think a lot of people think they gain something by doing it.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    23. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you do realise that the running joke of Sherlock Holmes is that he's an private citizen that constantly put's scotland yard to shame.

    24. Re:Compromising the investigation by tbannist · · Score: 1

      According to this article at least part of the reason Scotland Yard has tried to sweep this under the rug is due to the bribes and blackmail from News Corp.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    25. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Specific details biasing the case? Who didn't know that Simpson was the guy in the white Bronco seen running from police just after his wife was murdered? Only people living under rocks. Who won't know the details of these hacked e-mails? The people who have no idea WTF lulzsec or Anonymous are - In other words, a lot. Public info or not, finding a jury pool ignorant of these details should be easy. To avoid tainting the case, you don't have to show that nobody knew about these or had access to them, only that some people are not exposed and biased.

    26. Re:Compromising the investigation by scorp1us · · Score: 1

      I am much more interested in seeing LulzSec become bedfellows with the government. Also, wikileaks. Once they start using information from these sources, the establishment must admit they do society some good. Both organizations while operating illegally are operating on moral grounds: that truth and fairness prevail. Meanwhile we have the legitimate government continually hiding information that is "not in the best interest" (according to them) for people to know. Who is worse? Well absent perfectly transparent government (you'll never get it) I believe we need both. Checks and Balances... The government to keep lulzsec/anon/wikileaks etc "in line" (roughly, if they get too heavy handed they get targeted by the feds) and lulzsec/anon/wikileaks etc to keep the government/corporations honest.

      In a perfect world we'd need neither, but we're not in a perfect world...

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    27. Re:Compromising the investigation by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      I could not thought of a better way to make that point. Well said.

    28. Re:Compromising the investigation by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Still not getting the point. In the case of Simpson, we're talking about the leaking of non-public information (coroner's reports, DNA info, etc). Still a bad analogy, regardless. In the case of the News of the World situation, we're talking about the actual content of internal communcations. You don't need to know who Anonymous or Lulzsec are (or care) in order to have seen news coverage of the content of stolen e-mails.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    29. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell you that Inspector Lastrade met with Holmes this very morning, and the game is afoot.

    30. Re:Compromising the investigation by maxume · · Score: 1

      I've angered an internet lawyer!

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    31. Re:Compromising the investigation by GreyFish · · Score: 1

      UK and US law treat this kind of thing differently, in the US exposing jurors to material relevent to the case isn't seen as a problem, where as in the UK it is.

    32. Re:Compromising the investigation by adamchou · · Score: 1

      the point i was making is that the jurors they found for the casey anthony case weren't exposed otherwise they wouldn't have been allowed to be jurors. they found some, but they had one hell of a hard time finding someone that wasn't already exposed to the case

    33. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fruit of the poisoned tree" is a purely US doctrine: English law has no direct equivalent. Evidence obtained unlawfully, by parties other than the Police, has been ruled admissable in precedent. If the chain of custody or authenticity of the evidence is disputed the Defendant's representatives would need hard evidence to contradict it - probably hard enough to stand up to an independent Court-appointed expert.

      If the emails did get released, and hypothetically were used as incriminating evidence in a prosecution resulting from Operation Weeting, they would probably still be admissable, especially if used in conjunction with, and to back up, other evidence obtained lawfully by the Police in the course of their investigations.

      (Disclaimer: I am not your lawyer. This is just an opinion. This is not legal advice.)

    34. Re:Compromising the investigation by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      [3] You're not nearly paranoid enough in this case.

      While I think your analysis is spot on, I think it more likely that the Murdoch empire would manage, somehow, to sabotage the publication of detailed emails that (I am assuming, of course) will massively implicate Rupurt and friends. They have too much money and there is too much riding on it to let it out.

      Thus, it may be the lesser of a number of evils....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    35. Re:Compromising the investigation by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      Well, actually there's two issues then. The first is criminals turning evidence in gained while committing a crime and is it usable. The second is the channel through which law enforcement gets access to the evidence. My example applies to the first.

      For the second: If someone posts a video on Facebook of a friend in the act of committing a crime, or publishes their manifesto stating their plans for murder, are you (general) saying that evidence can't be used because it was in the public domain first? That's false.

      Criminals turning evidence in gained while committing a crime is usable evidence
      Evidence gained through a public release is usable evidence.

      Let me clarify something though. I would have preferred that any evidence be gained through legal means. I just don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that the evidence, if there is any, is now tainted so much that it is unusable.

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    36. Re:Compromising the investigation by Thud457 · · Score: 2

      wait, so LULZSEC is Batman?
      and we all know teh GODDAMN BATMAN never beats up the wrong guy...

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    37. Re:Compromising the investigation by blair1q · · Score: 1

      In order for the prosecution to make that argument, it would have to counter the argument that the police were the ones who hacked into the server to get the evidence. I.e., they'd have to produce a chain of evidence showing who did it and how. Which, at the least, means someone from Anonymous would have to present themselves as a witness, along with evidence of how they gained access, to prove they are the ones who obtained it and that the material wasn't fabricated.

      This stuff can taint a jury and won't be admissible unless Anonymous keeps careful records and wants to change its name.

      IANAL either, but I watched Boston Legal, which is why I know more than you about this stuff.

    38. Re:Compromising the investigation by Ruke · · Score: 1

      Certainly, but again, it's not going to be terribly difficult to find people who are unfamiliar with this evidence. In the grand scheme of things, no one knows or cares who LulzSec is, and no one reads their pastebins.

    39. Re:Compromising the investigation by Ruke · · Score: 1

      We've already determined that corporations have legal personhood; I want to see this corporation go to jail.

    40. Re:Compromising the investigation by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Tainted jury pool. If people have outside knowledge (what these e-mails present) it can taint the jury pool and cause mistrials. As such the only evidence allowed in a trial is what is presented by the lawyers. Personally I may have had an issue with this in a civil suit. I had detailed knowledge of the area as it was behind the gas station I had worked at for 4.5 years in high school and part of college. I was upfront when questioned during jury selection as they wanted to know if anyone had detailed knowledge of this area. When I responded the lawyer for the plaintiff went to the judge to get me off the case because I had outside knowledge of the area. He was overruled as it really wasn't germane to the case.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    41. Re:Compromising the investigation by he-sk · · Score: 1

      The criminal investigation will most likely lead nowhere or be forgotten in a years time.

      OTOH, if the information is made public, there's a big chance that Murdoch & Co. will be tried in the court of public opinion with unforeseeable fallout. Provided, there's actually evidence of criminal behavior there. Which there is, judging by Murdoch's reaction.

      IOW, I'm all for leaking the mails.

      --
      Free Manning, jail Obama.
    42. Re:Compromising the investigation by gknoy · · Score: 1

      (Lastrade is Lestrade's lesser-known homonymical partner.)

    43. Re:Compromising the investigation by Grumbleduke · · Score: 1

      Doesn't that assume the criminal investigations will actually get anywhere, not just conclude there wasn't any wrongdoing? Maybe with some senior police officers being paid off. There's a reason the UK Parliament has had to get involved (not that they can do much good either).

      I'm all for using the legal methods of obtaining justice, rather than resorting to illegal "vigilantism" but, personally, I'm rapidly losing faith in 2 of the 3 key elements of the legal justice system in the UK; the police services and Parliament. Particularly when it comes to big media.

    44. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless the police called him in with a bat signal and gave him a mission.

    45. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in North America, it is possible to find jurors who don't know where Mexico is, and/or how many people live on the planet. Remember... we are the land of Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, a presidential candidate who wears magic underwear, and Fox News (sic). I wonder how some of our citizens manage enough neural energy to run their lungs. Most Americans think Cole Porter is a job on a train.

      The UK, our parent country in many regards, can make claim to equal parts of uninformed citizenry, though I might think the Brits do have a slightly better grasp of 20th century history.

      I am an inquiring mind. I want to see the emails, raw. It's enough for me if Murdoch is financially ruined, damn his evil soul.

    46. Re:Compromising the investigation by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      They would, however, be public. NI's lawyers will probably be able to prevent the "legal" release into the public domain, and the company might be hit with a fairly trifling (for them) fine. If they go public however, NI stand to lose a hell of a lot more than the million pounds or whatever they might fined, they could lose multiples of that in many different countries and/or legal jurisdictions. It's one of those rare occasions where law and justice don't entirely mesh...

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    47. Re:Compromising the investigation by bgat · · Score: 1

      The emails coming from Anonymous won't be admissible, due to chain-of-custody issues. The prosecution will just go subpoena the originals, however, which will have no chain-of-custody issues and will therefore be admissible. In fact, the prosecution will avoid any contact with the Anonymous emails whatsoever, to make sure that they don't "taint" the originals.

      The release from Anonymous is irrelevant to the admissibility of the emails themselves. It's a side-show.

      --
      b.g.
    48. Re:Compromising the investigation by waives · · Score: 1

      If it was that easy, the defense would just leak the emails themselves... bringing more public attention to this cannot be a bad thing.

    49. Re:Compromising the investigation by blair1q · · Score: 1

      "What originals? Anonymous made it all up." - Murdoch's lawyer

    50. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a moot point really, an investigation no matter how well performed would make little change in those corporation, they'd get a slap on the wrist, maybe even prosecute some scapegoats but that's it. Making this scandal even more public, well, now that's damaging, just how much, we'll have to wait and see, but it's much better this way.

    51. Re:Compromising the investigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got the joke, even if those other guys didn't.

    52. Re:Compromising the investigation by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      This is the UK not the US. Does the UK even have the concept the tainted evidence? I thought ignoring evidence was a US only brain-damage?

  4. Incoming Bad Pun by Baby+Duck · · Score: 2

    Outfoxed!

    --

    "Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins

  5. Noooo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a stunningly bad idea. It may prejudice any subsequent criminal proceedings against NI and thus let them off the hook. Please don't.

  6. Actually, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Uh, the newspaper is called the "The Sun" and not "Sun". You are going to confuse people who are not thinking about the newspaper.

    1. Re:Actually, no. by Ruke · · Score: 1

      Though we did attack the actual sun... that bitch was down all last night.

  7. This is terribly bad idea by danielrendall · · Score: 1

    This won't help things, and is quite likely to make taking any sort of legal action against NI through the proper channels difficult or impossible. (in interests of transparency and honesty, I posted the "Noooo!" comment above while not logged in...)

    1. Re:This is terribly bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the courts of the world had any ability to actually deliver justice, groups like Anon wouldn't need to be doing what they are doing. Sidestep the courts, get the truth out and do more damage than a "slap on the wrist" fine could ever accomplish.

    2. Re:This is terribly bad idea by danielrendall · · Score: 1

      I don't think fighting lawlessness with lawlessness brings any great moral credit to anyone. The British courts are perfectly capable of delivering justice, but reckless twits on the Internet seem to be happy to jeopardise this prospect. I repeat - this isn't going to help.

    3. Re:This is terribly bad idea by Amouth · · Score: 1

      it's the "fine" i have a problem with - people need to be responsible for their actions.. even if they are working under the orders of others in their job.. if they break the law they need to go to jail

      i know there is problem under the military chain of command for this - but when it comes to corporations there should be zero questions.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    4. Re:This is terribly bad idea by gfreeman · · Score: 1

      Yes it will. If the emails are copied and made available to the public, the police have "probable cause" to look at the originals within NI. From there it's a short step to the DPP, but if history shows us anything it will not go anywhere, though not because of the Anon/Lolz actions.

      I can't see why this would make it harder to take legal action.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    5. Re:This is terribly bad idea by tbannist · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, then the U.K. needs legal reform. After all, you shouldn't be able to escape the repercussions of your actions by pretending to be someone else and talking about them. That'd be a huge legal loophole.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    6. Re:This is terribly bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the basis in law for disclosure of those emails hampering a prosecution? If one accepts that information illegally obtained by a third party acting of the own volition is equivalent to the police hacking emails then what you describe is effective immunity from every crime!

      Kill some hookers and then tell the local burglar that you have a great new entertainment system. As soon as the flee the house to report the severed heads on the sofa you can claim that the evidence was obtained illegally.

    7. Re:This is terribly bad idea by xelah · · Score: 1

      You can't. Not unless you control the press, anyway :) What you /can/ do is have your case collapse because there's been so much negative press coverage that there's no hope of a jury being able to reach an unbiased conclusion - especially when evidence which is not admissible in court is being published. That's why there are legal limits on what can be published until the trial is over. The Sun is in trouble over that at the moment: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/05/joanna-yeates-contempt-case

  8. Pay back is a bitch by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

    Pay back is a bitch. As others have mentioned this may not be the best thing for the criminal investigations, but it will be interesting to see how News Corps responds to this since it was apparently ok for them (a private entity) to tap other private entities' phones and e-mails.

    --
    Time to offend someone
    1. Re:Pay back is a bitch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't get it. Everyone complains that the big corporations step all over human rights, they are evil, etc. Then, this hacker organization comes into being, whose only purpose is to violate the privacy of others, yet they are lauded by the very people who despise the SAME behavior in corporations. Perhaps people forgive the hackers because they are not motivated by money like the corporations. I think that's a weak excuse. Another argument might be they are only hurting people who have already crossed the line - that's BS, the collateral damage from these attacks is not negligible. If these guys focused on outing corruption, it would be different, but that isn't how they operate. They're no different from looters in a riot.

    2. Re:Pay back is a bitch by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I am not saying that this was a good thing, just that "it couldn't have happened to a nicer company". Personally I hope it affect the prosecution of these cases as it would be nice to see a perp walk for some executives for once who are actively trying to screw people.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    3. Re:Pay back is a bitch by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Considering the irrational hate and fear, is now up to physical attacks against Murdoch. I'm sure that people are a-okay with things like this too.

      Yep and good job people. You want to suck up to a partisan ideology. That's fine. You want to take your partisan ideology to the next step? Well that's okay too. You want to keep going and physically assault people because you don't like their business? You're just as fucked up as the person you claim to be railing against.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:Pay back is a bitch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The title and tone of both your posts imply approval, the way I read them.

      I hate injustice, so I can't help but disapprove of anon's actions: they don't care about guilt, they just use the crime as a cover for their hacking joyride. Like I said, they are looters.

    5. Re:Pay back is a bitch by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Well part of me does enjoy seeing vengeance metered out as probably most people do, but I could be wrong on that last bit as I am kind of a vengeful ass hole. This is why I wouldn't make a good judge.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  9. Okay, so . . . by SEE · · Score: 1

    When is Anonymous going to hack Wikileaks as payback for Wikileaks hacking people to get stuff to report?

    1. Re:Okay, so . . . by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 2

      When you can prove that wikileaks 'hacked' people. Publishing information from insiders is not same hacking. Try logic 101.

    2. Re:Okay, so . . . by cavreader · · Score: 1

      Yea I'm sure the Wiki-leaks information just magically appeared. People have been referring this latest episode as "phone hacking" which is bullshit and anyone who considers this "hacking" should turn in their geek card in immediately. People just didn't change their default voicemail passwords and got owned. This is also pretty common on luggage locks so you better get to changing them in case the someone short stops your baggage looking for juicy info to post on the front page. This type of illegal access falls into the same category as someone with a security clearance downloading gigs of classified data to a USB and walking out the door with it and sending it to Wiki-leaks during in the midst of a mental meltdown. In both cases the law was broken so you can't defend one and support the other and expect anyone to take you seriously. Selective outrage and glaring hypocrisy is what drives today's society not any search for truth and justice. And payback can be a bitch however the moron script kiddie avengers may find the consequences of their actions more than they bargained for.

    3. Re:Okay, so . . . by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      When are they going to hack the US federal government and spread information far and wide about the Obama admin's gun running program(aka fast and the furious or project gunrunner), and attempt to violate the 2nd amendment. I'm going to guess never, but people will happily froth at the mouth over Murdoch when their own government was complicit in killing people, and enabling mexican cartels getting fire arms.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:Okay, so . . . by dreemernj · · Score: 1

      So Anonymous should wait to release these emails until it has been proven that The Sun and News of the World employees hacked people.

      --
      1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
    5. Re:Okay, so . . . by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      I see, and what has not been proven yet after few resignation, one dead body and more importantly few _arrests_?

    6. Re:Okay, so . . . by blair1q · · Score: 1

      ATF implemented Project Gunrunner in 2006

      googling for "fast and the furious" would lead to a mess of irrelevant results. and no relevant ones, probably.

    7. Re:Okay, so . . . by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Except that the current DOJ gave explicit orders in the last ~3ish years who to sell to directly. The statements are already there before congress from the people who were 'in charge, or were put into charge' when Obama came to power. Holder specifically. This is his(Obama) mess, and the media is happily turning a blind eye to it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    8. Re:Okay, so . . . by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Hardly. Michelle Malkin is all over it! (Lulz)

      So is CBS News: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunner#Controversy

      I doubt Obama had any knowledge of the tactical side of the operation. I doubt Holder knew about it either, but slightly less strongly.

      ATF generally has the authority to run its business the way it wants to, and may have overstepped the law without checking first, here. 2500 guns is a blip in that traffic, and if they used it to trace the flow so they could reduce it, then that's what they did. The irony of a cop being killed by a gun his own agency sold to his killer is just that. Irony. That killer would have had a gun no matter where it came from, and would have killed that cop no matter where the gun came from. While access to a gun can make a careless child into a killer, it doesn't make a bit of difference to a gun-running career criminal.

      This is no political issue, and will be a bigger news item once it's ascertained what ATF knew and when they knew it.

    9. Re:Okay, so . . . by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Your partisan bias is showing.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    10. Re:Okay, so . . . by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Every time I'm being rational.

  10. Anonymous, go away. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't need your stuff. Your ways and the closed journalist are too similar. I hate illegal and unethic beavior where I found it.

    1. Re:Anonymous, go away. by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 1

      ohkay buddy. put down the booze or the pills or whatever.. gonzo journalism is separated from Newscorp's by _intent_. Are you here for the truth, or do you have the "truth" and merely need to make some facts up to support it? Think newscorp would publish something that didn't corroborate their pre-established position? Even wikileaks's publishing included the fact the the gov. wasn't all guns and evil, they merely published not editorialized, and that's a difference.

      --
      CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
  11. Working... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why is there a Wokring... thingie at the bottom of every Slashdot article? What exactly is the spinning wheel working on? Thanks!

    1. Re:Working... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's sending copies of a photo of, shall we say, a rather flexible gentleman, to everyone in your email contact list.

    2. Re:Working... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is there a Wokring... thingie at the bottom of every Slashdot article?

      Some of us enjoy a good stir-fry. You should try following random jumps in the wokring; there are interesting and tasty results to be found.

    3. Re:Working... by UnresolvedExternal · · Score: 1

      It is doing some marvellous AJAXY wonderment, the true purpose of which is not understandable to the mere mortal Slashdot user. Please read the sign.

      ACHTUNG!

      ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS! DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN. IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS. ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER WORKENSPINNEN.

    4. Re:Working... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      That would be OK if there really were blinking lights (or naked women). The little circle animation gets old after a while....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Working... by UnresolvedExternal · · Score: 1

      There are naked women if you wait long enough, the RealPlayer feed is buffering...

  12. Excellent ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this is real then this could prove to the public there are positive ways of hacking.

  13. Murdoch - perjurious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rupert-murdoch-denies-911-victims-212945

    "Rupert Murdoch said he had had no evidence whatever that any phone-hacking of 9/11 victims was carried out by any News Corporation staff, and said he thought it was “unbelievable” that it could have been carried out by anyone in the US."

    From http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2011/07/despite-calling-it-the-most-humble-day-of-my-life-media-mogul-rupert-murdoch-flatly-denied-bearing-any-responsibility.html

    "Instead, he pointed to “the people I employed or perhaps the people they employed” as being to blame for what appears to be the systemic use of phone hacking and payments to police."

    This is in contrast to what is described here http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2001/sep/06/pressandpublishing.uknews

    which depicts Rupert Murdoch as a micromanagement guy, repeatedly terrorizing editors if they did not obey his private follies.

    "Sam Kiley, who resigned last month as the Times's Middle East correspondent, claimed yesterday that his reports were regularly censored by editors living in "terror" of irritating Mr Murdoch."

    Ask Sam Kiley, he could probably inform the investigators in London a lot about Murdoch's behavior, and likely, to what extent he ordered the buggings of 9/11 victims. And, follow the entire chain of editors, and the people Rupert and James Murdoch employed as well as the people they employed in turn.

    So, is Murdoch perjurious? Probably no, as the hearing is no court... How convenient.

    Bring the Murdochs to court!

  14. Anonymous cannot be trusted by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If your breaking the law by hacking them, whose to say that what you released is even real? Whenever you commit the same crime to expose a crime you lose all credibility. Fighting ethical misconduct by committing your own misconduct gains nothing! You end up being as big a piece of excrement as the people you say your trying to expose. Looking forward to hearing about more arrests. At News Corp International and members of Anonymous! Knock ! Knock!

    1. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by kelleher · · Score: 2

      I agree with your post, but I have to admit that Anonymous is providing some guilt free schadenfreude....

    2. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? If so, how can anyone ever trust you again?

    3. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite.

      Example: had Anon not exposed HB Gary Federal and their nefarious plan, nobody would be wiser. Result plan was ditched. Justice would never have been served. I see the outcome as an acceptable compromise.

      Since both cases invlove the state legal aperatus (and establishment in general), and both have demonstrated bias, I think what LulzSec are doing is fair.

      The game thus far has become unplayable. LulzSec/Anon are adapting to the circumstances by changing the modus operandi of combat; asymetrical if you will.

    4. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Civil Rights protesters can't be trusted -- If they're breaking the law by riding in the front of buses or participating in illegal protests speaking out the very laws that make such things illegal, or performing their "duty as a statesman" to overthrow an oppressive government (as mentioned in their original Declaration of Independence), then they can clearly NEVER be Trusted!

      Are you now or have you ever been in violation of any law? Aha! Your vehicle exceeded the mandated speed limit! Your words are meaningless to me now!

      Also: I do not abide by laws that are unjust, or logic that is flawed. Nor do I wait idly for the next blow from my assailant's fist.

    5. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you indicating handbook play? Follow the rules? The rule of law? War? When whistle blowers are not safe, the scales of justice carry coin on one side, misinformation is omnipresent and corporate need & greed get overwhelming input into how society functions and the laws that guide them you're deeming it necessary to be the better man by not succumbing to such lowly levels as the original offenders? That really sounds like redcoats should've been fought the way the redcoats fought. I'm not sure a subscription to the play book is in order when the voices of freedom are bound by bureaucracy, limits, secrecy, regulations, borders... law. I'd say abuse the abusers quite frankly because nothing goes nowhere faster than nothing going nowhere. Now I'm not saying I'm one that subscribes to an eye for an eye but we're finding ourselves in a carnival game where that big, fluffly prize can not be won - unless you cheat. And if cheating implies "do unto others..." then so be it.

    6. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your breaking the law by hacking them, whose to say that what you released is even real?

      By hacking it they expose the fact it is there - the majority might be better off with 2 or 3 other groups with the same notoriety to verify - but overall if you don't have the ability to uncover something or check it yourself, you DESERVE to be lied to and used.

    7. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by dyingtolive · · Score: 1

      Because maintaining the moral high-ground by spreading the good word based upon what little we know resulted in keeping HADOPI, the PROTECT IP act, the PATRIOT act, and DMCA down, right? It's what's going to keep ACTA from being forced into reality? The moral high ground is putting down the corruption in the two party system? What has smiling and taking it actually won us? And if that's not a solid enough argument, I have this thought in parting: If what they're doing is so bad, why can I not help but smile when I read about it?

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    8. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by KermodeBear · · Score: 1

      I think you're missing part of the point, or just trolling, but I'll bite.

      These whackos aren't just stopping a few busses or peacefully gathering and protesting. They're releasing private correspondence, and who is to say that they're not adding and/or removing items in the process? It would be trivial to take, say, an MS Outlook mailbox file and add a few tasty mails with kiddie porn attachments. And then, all of a sudden, someone's public reputation is destroyed for something they didn't do.

      There is a reason why computer forensics has a lot of process that track and control computer data so that it isn't tampered with. The Anon/Lulz guys are obviously going after people they don't like, and so already have a motive to taint whatever data they procure. Don't think that they won't, or already haven't.

      These people aren't the good guys. They cause harm to the innocent, selectively release what furthers their agenda, and cannot be trusted. They have become the very people they hate.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    9. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anon is protesting something? They aren't just screwing around irresponsibly? What civil right are they defending, by hacking NotW?

    10. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Guilt-free? No. Anonymous can go to jail for this.

      The guy who tried to pie Murdoch in the hearings, this morning, should be given an OBE.

    11. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by blair1q · · Score: 1

      or logic that is flawed

      1. Murdoch is the government? Really?

      2. What did he ever do to Anonymous? You're saying he punched them. When?

    12. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by he-sk · · Score: 1

      When will people learn that the law is only tangentially related to ethics? Just because it's the law doesn't make it right and just because it's against the law doesn't make it wrong.

      --
      Free Manning, jail Obama.
    13. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      and who is to say that they're not adding and/or removing items in the process? It would be trivial to take, say, an MS Outlook mailbox file and add a few tasty mails with kiddie porn attachments

      Who's to say that they are? We know that the News of the World has done some less than noble things, and now we might find out just how far they have sunk. If (and I in no way believe this has happened) fake emails were inserted into those released, let these be challenged and if it turns out they're not real, then we can drop it. As it is, NotW are the ones who have to clear their name, not Anonymous.

    14. Re:Anonymous cannot be trusted by kelleher · · Score: 1
      Maybe I wasn't clear... I'm enjoying Murdoch's misfortune free of guilt due to the past deeds of his employees (with or without his knowledge is unclear).

      I'm not going to defend Anonymous or feel bad if they are prosecuted for their actions. They decided two wrongs make a right and have to live with any consequences. The same applies to the foam pie thrower.

  15. It wasn't Anonymous... by pcgfx805 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was Lulzsec.

    1. Re:It wasn't Anonymous... by sandytaru · · Score: 2

      They joined forces just before LulzSec retired. They are now AnonSec or something like that.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    2. Re:It wasn't Anonymous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From their Twitter yesterday:

      LulzSec The Lulz Boat
      This was the work of Lulz Security, dear media. We would like to give a shout-out to our bros at @AnonymousIRC though, we love those guys!

    3. Re:It wasn't Anonymous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't Lulzsec.

      It was the Louise Boat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG7IURgryjA

    4. Re:It wasn't Anonymous... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh.

      Every time I read shit like this I want to punch something.

  16. Haaaaax! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Oh, I just love hearing about this on TV, everyone is crying HAX HAX JHAX!!11!1

    STFU noobs, nobody is hacking, you just suck.

    >You have been kicked from the server and your IP banned - REASON: quit whining about hax noobs

  17. a little advice, Mr Murdoch... by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Don't embarq on any sea voyages, or you might get what Robert Maxwell got.
    On second thought, go right ahead...

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  18. no doubt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this group will release something that gets someone killed. It's just a shame that none of the hackers will be on the death toll list.

  19. Something Fishy by Zamphatta · · Score: 1

    Is it just me, or is it all too easy to hack companies & governments nowadays? That's very very strange. - SONY didn't have proper security anywhere in its worldview. - The US military just had 24,000 files stolen. - The Sun just had its email hacked. - etc, etc, etc. I'm not a security expert, but I know enough about it to find it harder & harder to actually believe that these places with highly sensitive material, are being hacked without much of a problem.

    1. Re:Something Fishy by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why is that hard to believe? It's not the case that it's suddenly become easier to hack servers, the issue is that more people have the knowledge required to do so (and that old vulnerabilities are left unpatched). I mean, some of the hacks have been basic SQL injection or URL vulnerabilities that any competent programmer would know how to avoid. Those crappy systems have been in place for a while, people are just now starting to exploit them for the hell of it. It could have been going on all this time by groups that weren't announcing that they were doing it, like the Chinese government.

      I mean, consider this: when Citibank got "hacked" a while ago, and had account details stolen, do you know what the vulnerability was? The URL of the account page looked something like this:

      www.citibank.com/my_account.asp?id=<your credit card number here>

      All they did was change the number and, voila, it turns out that Citibank was not bothering to authorize the logged-in user to view the given account. Once you were logged in, you could view any account. That's not exactly world-class security, that's something that most kids on the w3schools forum could warn you about. It's an embarrassment that a financial company like Citibank would pay to have something like that built by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:Something Fishy by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 2

      Start reading the SANS (SysAdmin, Audit, Network, Security) newsbites. (Sign up at http://portal.sans.org/)

      The depressing reality is that most security money these days is spent filling out paperwork, and getting exemptions where you don't meet the standards. That coupled with the fact that there's simply much, much, more stuff online now, makes hacking easier.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    3. Re:Something Fishy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes me even more suspicious that Lulzsec is a false flag op. The comment further up about evidence being inadmissable in court makes me wonder if certain rich people aren't being done a favour....

    4. Re:Something Fishy by Zamphatta · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what makes this all so hard to comprehend in my tiny skull. How could these companies & governments with such highly sensitive material be leaving such easy security holes? It can't be by accident, but I don't see how such stupidity would benefit them. It's like Fort Knox leaving the back door unlocked and later saying "Well, we did't have it open...so, that was good security. It's appalling to us that someone had the gall to open the door". Something's just not right with this picture.

    5. Re:Something Fishy by Zamphatta · · Score: 1

      Sounds like there's some money to be made in leaving yourself insecure. That would explain a lot.... still crazy but it would explain a lot.

    6. Re:Something Fishy by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      It can't be by accident, but I don't see how such stupidity would benefit them.

      It obviously doesn't benefit companies like Citibank to have stupid people making important decisions, but I guess that's the way they operate. These are the same kinds of companies that managed to seriously damage much of the world economy by their greed and stupidity.

      If I was to guess, I would say that a mid-level manager hired an outside consultant programmer for as little as he possibly could (you know, to save the company money), the programmer ended up being a beginner because you get what you pay for, and no one who was technical enough to look for security issues reviewed the project before it went live. And, apparently, they never bothered to have a decent programmer review the actual code either. That's simply a guess though. As to how it's possible that things like this could happen in such "important" places, well, never underestimate the bounds of human stupidity. When you're considered "too big to fail" I don't think you go around trying to cover your ass, I think you probably feel invincible.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    7. Re:Something Fishy by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Oh, and here's something else to piss you off:

      Citibank received $300+ Billion in bailout funds. They had the money to pay a decent programmer, but I guess other things were more important.

      If you have your money in Citibank, I hope you sleep tight.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  20. You know you have a PR problem by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    when your server is hacked and people are cheering. It is all part of the fall of the house of hubris.

    1. Re:You know you have a PR problem by Requiem18th · · Score: 0

      Problem is, most people don't see it this way. Most people don't know what anonymous or lulzsec are, most people don't know they are being hacked by them and don't know why. Most people don't know NotW hacked a dead girl's phone and copied her voice mail and delete4d it effectively stealing it.

      All the know, if at all, is that scary stuff is happening on the Internet and someone [not them] must do something. And that someone is Mr Government., Who then immediately claims to need some laws placed to protect us, thus eroding our freedoms.

      What lulzsec/anonymous needs right now is a good marketing campaign, or they are going to end up as the villians and not NotW who are the real assholes.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    2. Re:You know you have a PR problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most people don't know NotW hacked a dead girl's phone and copied her voice mail and delete4d it effectively stealing it.

      If by 'most people' you mean (as often said on this site) 'most Americans' then yeah sure, but we no longer expect them to know what's going on past their own front doors. But if you're in the UK then you're either living under a rock, or living/working with the most willfully ignorant people in the entire country.

      Everyone I know is buzzing about this shit - Murdoch's wife had only just lunged at that guy 10 minutes before I left my office (with everyone watching it live at their PC's), and when I got on the bus everyone was chatting about it, showing strangers the video on the their phones.

    3. Re:You know you have a PR problem by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Everyone I know is buzzing about this shit - Murdoch's wife had only just lunged at that guy 10 minutes before I left my office (with everyone watching it live at their PC's), and when I got on the bus everyone was chatting about it, showing strangers the video on the their phones.

      I can understand people getting arrested for doing illegal stuff. But what I don't understand is...just because of a scandal, why did the entire newspaper fold?

      Did everyone in the UK simultaneously say "we're not buying you anymore" and they ran out of money?

      I'm just not understanding why a newspaper folds on day one of a scandal...never heard of that before.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:You know you have a PR problem by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      /me is an American, and as an American I would like to know, was there a page 3 girl involved? If so where can I view?

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    5. Re:You know you have a PR problem by beowulfcluster · · Score: 3, Informative

      They were planning on doing it anyway and replace it with a sunday edition of The Sun. Acting like they're closing it down because it's the decent thing to do is just a convenient excuse.

    6. Re:You know you have a PR problem by xelah · · Score: 1

      Not just consumers - advertisers were pulling out. There may have been a risk of it spreading to other Murdoch media, too. Nor was it day one. News was coming out a bit at a time.

    7. Re:You know you have a PR problem by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Most people don't know NotW hacked a dead girl's phone and copied her voice mail and delete4d it effectively stealing it.

      Dude, this has been all over the news. Every newspaper, every TV news show (except Fox); hell, they even mention it on classic rock morning radio shows. You would have to be a complete hermit to not have heard of it.

      This time the breaches aren't just nerd news. The pie in the face made sure of that (which may be the PR you say they need).

    8. Re:You know you have a PR problem by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The NotW was the biggest selling Sunday paper, I doubt they wanted to get rid of it. The Sunday Sun would have been in addition to the NotW.

      Their hand was forced by the fact that pretty much everyone pulled their advertising. Without ad money the paper had no chance of being profitable so they killed it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:You know you have a PR problem by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      day one of a scandal

      It most certainly wasn't day one when NoTW closed - this scandal has literally been going on years - an NoTW employee & a private investigator were jailed a couple of years back because of it. No one was paying much attention until it was found they had been hacking a dead girl's phone; at that point there was a lot of public pressure on advertisers who then started to pull out of the NoTW one by one at which point News International decided to call it quits as they had wanted to turn the sun into a 7 day operation anyway...

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
  21. How inconsiderate.. by formfeed · · Score: 1

    ..to release the emails of a dead news paper.

  22. Not too bright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By hacking into those servers, Murdoch's lawyers can easily claim any evidence was planted. Good going guys.

  23. Guess why he fled the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guess why he fled the US...

    Jail in the UK is probably better than in the US.

  24. Slashdot = dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are doing the very thing they say they are against, even if it was done against s dead child. I saw this once and it's true Slashdot == dumb

    1. Re:Slashdot = dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it does, you've just assigned it that way.

  25. A few years from now the Internet will be censored by janimal · · Score: 1

    In case anyone is wondering a few years from now why their internet liberty will be so limited, it is this kind of abuse of freedom that will get us there. Thanks in advance Anonymous et al.

    If information wants to be free, let's all get tracking chips today!

  26. Summary: Alaskan Chupacabra by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

    That post was too long (so I treated it just like any article on /. and didn't read it), so here's a synopsis:
    * Alaska has a Chupacabra, but it's in the water (native Alaskans refer to it as Chupacabrosaurus or Cadborosaurus).
    * No one has actually seen it but some video may exist (no one knows what's on the video so an Alaskan Chupacabra can't be ruled out).
    * The fact that no one has seen it proves it is not only hiding but intelligent.
    * Calls to Alaska's Bigfoot have not been returned proving an Alaskan conspiracy is afoot.
    * Surprisingly, we haven't been able to contact the "They're Real, Really" desk at either The News of the World or The Weekly World News.

  27. Fine and all by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 0

    but I want the GOP propaganda machine known as Fox 'News' exposed for what they are. Now.

  28. Sun emails by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    And here I was looking forward to finding out what *exactly* the erstwhile Sun Microsystems was thinking when it ran a fine tech company into the ground.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  29. Re:A few years from now the Internet will be censo by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    yes we should fall into line like good little citizens shouldn't we

  30. How did this happen by jovius · · Score: 1

    Did the group just try to breach thesun.co.uk for the occasion or did they have the opportunity for some time and now decided to use it?

    It's just somewhat convenient, but nothing rules out pure chance.

  31. I don't have any use for vigilantes by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    but it is certainly true that News Corp has always been a pirate corporation http://berlin.ccc.de/~andy/CCC/TRON/material/nds/20020415-afr.html

  32. illegal surveillance by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    under color of journalism is a crime, as Murdoch & Co will soon discover. Much was destroyed by hacking, privacy, the sense of security and safety.

  33. tbannist, thx for setting them straight! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    It is pertinent to mention that one of the directors on Murdoch's News Corp. board is none other than the author of that USA PATRIOT Act, Viet Dinh, who was hired in 2003 "by ChoicePoint to advise the company on developing its government homeland security contracts." (Wikipedia quote)

    ChoicePoint, as we may recall, was that corporation which purged 91,000 Black-American voters from Florida's voter registration database, colluding with Florida neocon sleazoid, Katherine Harris. Bush "officially" won Flordia by only 537 votes, and it was later shown that the majority of those 91,000 purged (ostensibly for felony convictions) turned out to have been "in error" and were eligible to vote in that election.

    Murdoch's Fox News early on reported that state to Bush, (and I believe it was a Bush cousin and employee of Fox who did the reporting that night).

    Murdoch/Fox ---- ChoicePoint ---- Viet Dinh ---- USA PATRIOT Act: note any pattern here???

    1. Re:tbannist, thx for setting them straight! by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      Murdoch/Fox ---- ChoicePoint ---- Viet Dinh ---- USA PATRIOT Act: note any pattern here???

      Many, many people note the pattern. The question is, what is the path to mending the Union?

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
  34. Re:A few years from now the Internet will be censo by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

    Yes - the only way to maintain Internet freedom is to avoid exercising it. Good plan.

  35. NO REAL HARM?!?! by SoTerrified · · Score: 3, Informative

    The phone hackers destroyed no property, deprived no owners of any of its use. I don't think there is any real harm here.

    NO HARM?! In case you missed the details of the original case that started the whole firestorm...
    In 2002, Milly Dowler was kidnapped, then murdered later. When she went missing, News of the World hacked her phone. Seeing her voice mailbox was full, they deleted some messages (deleting potential evidence) so they could maybe get some new information. Meanwhile, the police saw that 'Milly' accessed her phone mailbox, so they downgraded her case, treating her as a low priority runaway. That meant that critical time tracking her was lost that could've got the police to her sooner and potentially saved her life.

    No harm indeed...

  36. Strangulation?! by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    Wow! Had this been ancient Palestine the Murdochs would have been sentenced to, lo and behold, strangulation... At least if there are gems in the hearing room

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_(Judaism)#Punishment_by_Chenek_.28strangulation.29

          "A sage who is guilty of insubordination in front of the grand court in the Chamber of the Hewn Stone"

    and given that the Murdochs in their senior positions must both be considered sage regarding the petty realm they were guarding, and were telling stories that didn't fit fit other observations. What were the gems? With all the ingenious lies and brilliant puns delivered over the centuries aren't they little gems in their outright own. So, they ARE in the Chamber of the Hewn Stone; in fact there must have been many a hewn stone over the years.

    No, this is not funny, at all.

  37. Re:A few years from now the Internet will be censo by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

    While this might be true, it won't affect associations like Anonymous much; what they're doing is already illegal in most places, and further limiting Internet liberty for the masses will not stop ne'er-do-wells from borrowing your tracking chip ID to continue doing what they're doing.

  38. What I would do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Publicly announce I have a ton of emails, but that I wasn't going to release them: News of the World is. Over the course of the trail, the emails presented as evidence would be made public. If any were held back, only then would I release my pool of emails. Then News of the World would be tried again for obstruction of justice.

  39. plenty of people know by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    check out Google News on News Corp, plenty of people know about this. Social Mention indicates that online sentiment regarding LulzSec is mostly neutral, with positive larger than negative.

  40. Re:A few years from now the Internet will be censo by kvezach · · Score: 1

    I find it extremely unlikely that the state can re-engineer the internet to such a point that the limitations to internet liberty can't simply be sidestepped. Even less likely is that they can do that without destroying the very thing that makes the internet useful in the first place: all intelligence at the edges, simple neutral routing between the endpoints.

  41. No, he was foolish. by VAElynx · · Score: 2

    Although the army did have explicit order not to harm civillians back then.
    Interestingly , the whole overblowing of the Tianamen square events has only recently been exposed by wikileaks

    As an aside, passive resistance has never accomplished much. Worker's movement didn't achieve 8 hour working time by bending down their heads and politely voicing discontent, for example - they did so by a series of massive strikes.
    I expect you are going to come up with Gandhi, but even he didn't .. the British preferred not to confront him because they realised he was the last barrier holding much more radically minded people at bay, and if he's removed, there will be an open, violent revolution. A threat of force is often more effective than the force itself after all.

    1. Re:No, he was foolish. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I view strikes as passive - they aren't violent or violating anyone's property, just refusing to work. Unless they actively prevent others from working, of course.

    2. Re:No, he was foolish. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      A strike itself is passive resistance. And employers hired thugs to harm the strikers, and that violence was met with non-passive resistance.

      Passive resistance ended the Vietnam war. In fact, it can be argued that the shots that ended Vietnam were fired by National Guardsmen at Kent State University.

      And there's the US civil rights movement. Probably the one thing that mattered most in that movement was a Christian preacher standing up to institutional racism and being shot.

  42. Jesusisms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first mile is slavery; the second mile is stupidity.

    fyngyrz - - posting anon due to mod points

    1. Re:Jesusisms by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Nobody's fooled by your attempt to karma whore.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Jesusisms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't call it stupidity per se, especially if you think it through from the POV of the Christian:

      * going twice the distance will initially disarm/confuse the Roman in a way that they cannot point to and call resistance.

      * going two miles means that you're subtly telling the Roman: 'this is nothing, and therefore your alleged earthly power means nothing'.

      * during the two miles, you have twice as much time to work the conversion/evangelical angle on him... especially when he's asking you why you're crazy enough to do twice as much as you had to.

      ...even from the non-Christian standpoint, it's a perfect opportunity to weird 'em out a little, which in turn gives you (albeit temporary) power over the oppressor, no?

    3. Re:Jesusisms by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      How can an AC be a karma whore?

    4. Re:Jesusisms by Khyber · · Score: 0

      By posting his name so you can read his other comments and moderate those up, duh. Did you even BOTHER reading the post or did you just blindly jump at a perceived chance to bash me?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re:Jesusisms by mcgrew · · Score: 0

      Sorry, another slashdot bug bit. His name wasn't visible in the browser I was using (ironically, FF on kubuntu, it shows in IE6 on XP). Um, if you construed that as bashing you need a thicker skin. It was a simple question; I was puzzled.

      But why would someone bother to read that comment and mod up other comments of his? That makes no sense to me. And if I were moderating today, if I were to do that the mods would be downmods just because posting anonymously in a thread you're moderating is an abuse of the system.

      I just looked him up, from his achievements page I doubt he's a karma whore with more than 2^7 +5s. That matches me, and I've never had to worry about karma. Even when I'm obviously modbombed it doesn't affect me.

      Speaking of which, uh, moderators, I'm offtopic here.

    6. Re:Jesusisms by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "But why would someone bother to read that comment and mod up other comments of his?"

      Go to reddit and I think you'll understand very quickly.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  43. Here's why: by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

    Murdoch is hoping that if enough heads roll, one of them won't be his. If the mob is satisfied before they get to him, he escapes with impunity.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  44. Irony by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    So a group of hackers, hacked another group of hackers and plan to publish their information because that group of hackers hacked some other people for use in their publication?

    head 'splosion!

  45. Mod parent up by Interfacer · · Score: 1

    +1.

    I'm sure that helping slaves escape was wrong at one time or another. That didn't make morally wrong though.
    And lynching a black man who could have been near the scene of a crime was fine too at one point. That didn't make it right either.

    1. Re:Mod parent up by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      What about if you attacked someone in order to free slaves? Should the attack be condemned on the basis that "motivation is irrelevant" according to GP, or should it be applauded on the basis that freeing slaves is right?

    2. Re:Mod parent up by sycodon · · Score: 1

      To compare hacking into someone's email account or corporate system to Slavery or any other injustice that is usually only resolved through violence is at best sophistry. At worst, it is the statement of moral coward who is struggling to reconcile their ignorant and childish views with reality.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  46. But then by VAElynx · · Score: 1

    neither do the two quotes to which i replied. So it's kinda even >:3

  47. Re:A few years from now the Internet will be censo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're so damned concerned about the tenuous freedom of "your internet," you are free to continue using it in its crippled state, or start your own and make your own rules. Ever heard of i2p? Freenet? Hell, you can even still use Fidonet if you are one of the people still using a landline telephone. There are far too many nets for the government to control them all.

  48. Great, just great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Way to compromise the investigation of Murdock's company. Now any time that law enforcement tries to use any sort of electronic document (such as, but not limited to, their emails) Murdock et al can say "We never sent that email. Anonymous hacked us and planted it there."

    Mark my words, this is going to happen. Anonymous just helped Murdock get out of trouble...

    And before someone thinks that they are being clever by saying that the investigation was swept up the rug (as someone above did) - read the freakin' news - it has been un-swept at this point.

    What morons...

  49. Going after Murdoch. NOW the cops are mad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just when LulzSec was trying to arrest old Murdoch.

    Then the cops get mad.

    Curious timing. Very curious.

  50. Murdoch's hypocrisy by unsolicited · · Score: 0

    Murdoch blames his employees for the scandal.
    Did Murdoch share % of company's profit with employees?

  51. Changed minds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The Lulzsec hacking group, which this week claimed to have obtained 4GB of emails taken from the Sun’s servers, has decided not to publish them for fear of jeopardising ongoing legal actions in the UK and US."

    http://www.psfk.com/2011/07/lulzsec-we-wont-publish-news-international-emails.html on 2011-07-21