Sprint Bets Big On the iPhone

hazytodd was one of several readers to tip news of Sprint Nextel's plan to grab a piece of the iPhone action in order to halt the company's downward slide. According to a Wall Street Journal report, Sprint has committed to buying 30.5 million iPhones over the next five years (summary of paywalled WSJ story), which at retail rates works out to roughly $20 billion. "To sell that many iPhones, Sprint would have to double its rolls of contract customers, convert all of them to the Apple device or a combination of the two." A separate rumor at Boy Genius Report suggests the iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive until sometime next year, with Verizon and AT&T getting the upgraded iPhone 4S until then. Apple is holding an event to unveil the new phone tomorrow.

Comments

wow

[Lindan9]

In other completely unpredicted news...

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok... why is this on Slashdot? This is business news. Maybe the Wall Street Journal or something could cover it. Then the suits can evaluate whether they think Sprint's investment will turn a profit. Y'know, Slashdot, Apple is a *company* and the iPhone is one of its products. There are engineers who design the products and much of what they do is technically interesting. Then there are suits who negotiate deals and perform marketing and that's what this story is about. It is not news for nerds. You may as well make a front-page post about the next time Apple hires a firm for janitorial services.

I know some of you religious types have an unending hard-on for Apple and think Steve Jobs walks on water and shits pleasant-smelling rosewater. So for you I have a surprising revelation: not everything that happens at Apple is newsworthy.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, rose smell is a medical condition !!!

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok... why is this on Slashdot? This is business news.

This news is important to the true believers in the Way of Steve, of course. Do you not want to help Friend Steve's liver replacement fund to complete his immortal life after he ascended from Cupertino? Why do you hate Friend Steve? Are you so cruel a human being so as to let another human being die by your neglect? Friend Steve only wants what is best for you.

I must report this transgression to the Fellowship. You should expect a visit from the Black Turtleneck Ops later tonight.

Re:wow

[stephanruby]

At least, the HP ceo won't feel completely alone now.

Re:wow

[ninetyninebottles]

Ok... why is this on Slashdot? This is business news.

The technology offerings of a major US telecom, especially a huge shift is not of interest to geeks? If the headline was that Comcast bet big and invested in buying huge quantities of Juniper routing gear including cable modems would that be of interest? Love, hate, or indifference to Apple; a major switch by Sprint to offering Apple phones is news that many geeks care about. Deal with your insecurities.

Re:wow

[gmon750]

Of course this is news. Although I'm sure all the whining AC's would change their tunes if it were an Android phone.

Re:wow

[Pieroxy]

Different story means different tune from different ACs.

Re:wow

[rednip]

This news is important to the true believers in the Way of Steve, of course...

The only people who get a better amount of satisfaction from an Apple launch than those looking to buy that product, are the trolls who think that they contribute to a rational discussion with blanket insults about them.

Re:wow

[tehcyder]

I suppose from a true Apple zealot's viewpoint it is impossible to imagine anyone genuinely disliking Apple, therefore you can only assume that any criticism is a troll.

This mirrors the kneejerk reaction here to anyone who vaguely praises Microsoft - they can only be doing it as a paid shill.

We're not all seventeen year olds with that charmingly black and white adolescent world view.

Re:wow

[rednip]

While I've owned an iPhone for the last 4 years, considering that I'm a Java developer with an MCSE, I'm hardly an 'Apple zealot'.

This mirrors the kneejerk reaction here to anyone who vaguely praises Microsoft

We're not all seventeen year olds with that charmingly black and white adolescent world view.

Pot calling the kettle black, eh? Seriously, how are you exploring a complex narrative? Do you honestly think that more snarkyness somehow proves that you're 'better than others'? Ha!

All in

[mirix]

Guess they're banking on the public loving apple, let's see how that bet holds out.

I think $20B is out to lunch though, I'd expect bulk rate if I ordered 30 MILLION widgets.

Re:All in

[The123king]

That's why the article said that it's $20billion AT RETAIL. Of course Sprint is going to get them cheaper. You can't turn a profit any other way.

Re:All in

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Yes you can, you charge the customer more than you pay and hide the extra in the monthly charges. Some phones are free to consumers.

Do you really think the phone companies were paid by the manufacturers to distribute those phones?

Now, does that mean they paid retail? Not necessarily or even probable, but your reasoning was just silly wrong.

Re:All in

[raehl]

For the iPhone, retail price is likely essentially equal to the price Sprint pays. Phones are loss-leaders, not profit centers.

Re:All in

[node 3]

Guess they're banking on the public loving apple, let's see how that bet holds out.

Yeah, what a craaaaazy bet that would be!

Re:All in

[19thNervousBreakdown]

That's ridiculous. I love my iPhone, and my contract has been up for 4 months or so. When the iPhone 5 comes out on AT&T, I'm getting one. But switching carriers for it? Hah! General hassle aside, I'll be damned if I'm giving up my grandfathered unlimited data plan.

Would Sprint really think that it'd be worth a risky deal that, chances are, will never pay off? Making a 5-year commitment in order to get a 6-month head start, where everyone knows they can just wait? In a market where most people are on a 2-year upgrade cycle? So, let's be generous and say that 1 in 2 people are actually able to take advantage of the deal. What percentage are going to be willing to shell out for a new iPhone and go through the trouble of changing carriers to get a phone they'll have to keep for 2 years 6 months early? What percentage of those haven't already had a bad experience with Sprint? What percentage of those won't be enticed right back away by one of their better-funded competitors?

No way Sprint could be so stupid. If they are, well, short selling is still legal, right?

Re:All in

[Runaway1956]

Uhhhhh - twenty billion dollar loss leaders? Alright - if you say so. Let me look again, and count those zeros. Yep. Twenty Billion - not million. Oh-kayyy - loss leaders. If you know what you're talking about, they are taking one HELL of a gamble!

I suspect that those phones are going to be sold at some kind of markup. Maybe only a slight markup, but a markup all the same. No company can afford to take a loss on that much investment capital. Especially considering the number of returned phones, for whatever reason.

Re:All in

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember Sprint. They changed the terms of my contract.

Odds of ever having a Spring account again is near zero.

Re:All in

[Lumpy]

your grandfathered unlimited plan is dead jim... the only people clinging to it are the fools.

they throttle you MAJOR HARD when you get past their 2GB plan's data point. I'm talking 56K dialup hard with latency so bad that even twitter is painful to use.

Stop spending an extra $5.00 a month for something fake.

Re:All in

[ajayrockrock]

My contract is up with AT&T and my 3GS is showing it's age so there's a very high probability that I'm getting the next iPhone. I hate AT&T though, as it's pretty expensive. Right now I pay 160 bucks for two phones (one normal, one iphone). The wife pays 100 bucks on her Verizon phone. So that's $260 going out for cell phones which is crazy.

Like you I had the unlimited data plan but had to ditch it as I needed to add on tethering for my laptop (didn't jailbreak, went the official route). It seems like AT&T want to do everything they can to get rid of the unlimited data users.

Sprint has an unlimited data plan and have recently stated that it's "here to stay". So if sprint gets the phone tomorrow and the prices are still decent, then I'll cancel Verizon and AT&T and put us all on Sprint and probably save 100 bucks a month doing that.

Re:All in

[Ironhandx]

He does know what he's talking about. The telco's make anywhere from 5-20% margins on any of those phones. The iPhone I think is around 10% gross margins, which means by the time you deal with your own distribution channels and activating it etc you're just covering costs.

Re:All in

[narcc]

Well, it is a HUGE gamble. According to the WSJ article, for Sprint to move 30.5 million iPhones in 4 years, they'd need to convert all of their on-contract customers to the iPhone -- and then double the number of customers on contract! A tall order for a provider who has been shedding customers.

They don't even expect the deal to be profitable until 2014 -- with a 1.5 billion hit to operating profit in the short-term.

Further, as the iPhone 5 looks to be a fairly mundane update, I doubt we'll see many people jumping carriers for it. The WSJ article suggests that Sprint would need to capture a full third of the iPhone market (if demand remains as strong over the next four years).

If that's not a gamble, I don't know what is.

Re:All in

[node 3]

Betting on people wanting iPhones (what the OP was referring to) is a no-brainer. It's as sound a bet as one can make. It's only the financial execution that is in question (which is what you are referring to). But the premise that people want iPhones is sound.

On the financial side of things, Sprint doesn't even have to make all that money back in the short term, all they have to do is lose less money having done this than if they didn't do this. If the iPhone can even just slow their decline, it's helping them.

The only gamble here is whether that money could have been better spent elsewhere. Using it to acquire the top selling phone seems quite rational. Do you have any better suggestions?

Re:All in

[smellotron]

So that's $260 going out for cell phones which is crazy.

Holy crapola, that is crazy. My friends make fun of me because it costs me something like $0.20 to send a text and $0.10 to receive a text, and I don't have GPS or usable WWW access. But boy, I feel better about all of that when I pay $35-38/mo.

Re:All in

[darrylo]

Uh, you're in violent agreement with The123king. There's nothing he said that conflicts with what you wrote.

Re:All in

[mirix]

Maybe I should have phrased it better. I know people want iphones, that's pretty obvious. I'm just doubting that 30 million of them want them badly enough to move to sprint.

Re:All in

[tlhIngan]

Maybe I should have phrased it better. I know people want iphones, that's pretty obvious. I'm just doubting that 30 million of them want them badly enough to move to sprint.

A VERY good question.

30M iPhones is 10% of the US population (or just under the population of Canada).

This is for a phone using a radio used ONLY by Sprint (WiMax - AT&T, Verizon use LTE, as does practically everyone else in the world). So it's a phone with 4G capabilities limited to the US market only.

I don't know what Sprint's marketshare of the US cellular market is, but 10% of the US population would be a pretty significant chunk of their subscriber base I'd think.

The one thing about the iPhone that's interesting though is the lack of branding. The only other phone sold by carriers that's the same is the Nexus S. No branding, no carrier apps, ...

Re:All in

[gig]

You're saying the public doesn't love Apple? They have a weird way of showing it.

Re:All in

[gig]

Yes, $20 billion loss leaders. The contracts on those phones will bring in $75 billion in revenue at least.

Re:All in

[MrZilla]

Making a 5-year commitment in order to get a 6-month head start, where everyone knows they can just wait?

I think you are underestimating the amount of people who are not willing to wait 6 months.

Re:All in

[Andy Dodd]

Betting on carrier-jumping with the original iPhone was a safe bet.

Now - not so safe, especially considering that iPhone market share is stalled and Android is growing.

Re:All in

[tlhIngan]

Betting on carrier-jumping with the original iPhone was a safe bet.

Now - not so safe, especially considering that iPhone market share is stalled and Android is growing.

The marketshare has "stalled" because people are buying iPhones at the rate the market is growing. The smartphone market is growing fast, and Androids are filling the gap because they're available in every price range, formfactor and customization. Heck, if you look, there probably are 1.5 or 1.6 phones being sold (without Google, using AOSP).

All that's happening is that Apple is pulling in customers, and Android as a collective whole is pulling them in faster, but individually each manufacturer may not be pulling in a whole bunch. (Apple takes over 2/3rds of mobile profits. Androids, dumb/featurephones have to split the shrinking leftovers, and those phones make a vast majority of phones sold - Apple probably only has 5% marketshare overall pulling in more than 2/3rds profits, while the other 95% are splitting the remaining third.)

Re:All in

[tehcyder]

my 3GS is showing it's age

I agree, an iphone over a year old is pretty much a brick walking.

Re:All in

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting AC, sorry, but you realize that as of now Sprint is the only true unlimited data national carrier right? you think you would pass that up just because the deathstar will have it too eventually?

I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy, so that Sprint might actually be a choice around here, instead of the joke option you pick when you don't want to own a cell phone that can actually receive calls? Or browse the Internet? Or be anything but a waste of power?

I mean, shit, AT&T has better coverage where I live than Sprint does, and AT&T is shit! Everyone I know is on Verizon because Verizon owns the only network that bothers covering the area.

Now I'm sure that varies from place to place, but - well, in the northeast at least, Sprint is an absolute joke as a cell phone provider. That $20 billion would have been better spent on improving their network than blowing it on phones.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Can they actually just go "Okay, here's a check for n-million" and build a tower, or do they have to go through years of zoning, permits, and the like to get a tower constructed?

I honestly don't know, but I do know communities are so finnicky about having those towers near them that there's significant money in selling camoflauged towers.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[h4rr4r]

In many areas the towers are already there. AT&T and Verizon are already using them. I takes nothing other than leasing space on them for another cell provider to get his gear on those towers.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[Anonymous Coward]

In many areas the towers are already there. AT&T and Verizon are already using them. I takes nothing other than leasing space on them for another cell provider to get his gear on those towers.

Ah, but you forget exclusivity periods, and yearly rate increases as well as hardware upgrades as the signal standards change.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[goombah99]

I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy, so that Sprint might actually be a choice around here, instead of the joke option you pick when you don't want to own a cell phone that can actually receive calls?

I think you are thinking about this wrong. Sprint is not losing 20B. theey are hoping for a 20B influx from either new subscribers or old ones churing to iphones. for new subscribers the payback time would be within a year since the marginal cost of new subscribers is small.

thus within 2 years that 20B should be all paid back.

the way apple books the payments usually they don't want it all upfront either. so chances are this isn't a 20B pre-pay but a 20B contract ammortized over 5 years.

thus the net effect is that sprint should have a positive cash flow to build new towers if their subscribers increase.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[reboot246]

I know that without expanding their limited coverage here in Alabama, they won't be signing up any new customers by selling iphones.

Yeah, IF you're in a major city or IF you're on a major highway, you can get service. It's just that people have a habit of traveling away from home on a regular basis.

AT&T is bad enough, but Sprint is worse.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[Runaway1956]

Most places that require years and years of zoning law battles are already fairly saturated. That portion of our nation which has no coverage isn't going to put many obstacles in the way of new towers. I have fifteen acres, and secondary highway access to it, if anyone wants to put up a tower. No zoning to worry about, just send me a notice, and I'll get the building permit! The single minor hurdle will be getting the aviation people to sign off, but since I'm miles away from the two nearest airports, that won't be a problem either.

Re:I wonder how many towers $20 billion would buy

[darrylo]

In many places, it's not that easy. Money for towers is just a part of the problem. I imagine that people screaming, "Oh NOES! Radiaaashun!", are probably the major obstacles these days. For example, as much as people like to whine and moan about AT&T coverage in San Francisco, here is one small example of what AT&T has to deal with (yes, it's a bit old, but likely still 1000% valid): http://cdn.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/06/BAT01E8QTQ.DTL

Other examples:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/west-virginias-quiet-zone-becomes-refuge-for-those-on-the-run/
http://gawker.com/372440/?tag=television (this is for wifi, but I'm sure the sentiment extends to cellular)

They'll have my name on a contract

[ackthpt]

...when they force a pen into my cold, dead hands and wiggle my fingers to draw an 'X' ...

...over where I wrote in big, bold letters NEVER A CONTRACT AGAIN!

Seriously. I get by rather well on a stupid phone with pay as you go, though I did have a run-in this morning with the scum who subscribe people into their 'Love Genie Tips' - Wise Media, I think they are called. Watch out for texts which enroll you into their program and cell providers actually allow this sort of crap.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[Anonymous Coward]

...though I did have a run-in this morning with the scum who subscribe people into their 'Love Genie Tips' - Wise Media, I think they are called. Watch out for texts which enroll you into their program and cell providers actually allow this sort of crap.

Care to give us some context? What are 'Love Genie Tips'? Is this some type of euphemism about polishing your lamp?

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[TexVex]

I get by rather well on a stupid phone with pay as you go

I imagine that for many, contract voice and data plans are very good. I, however, got sick of them after having a PocketPC for two years and then an iPhone for two years. I finally realized that 90% of my already small amount of data usage was just twiddling my thumbs, and that 90% of my actual phone usage was in a place where I was in front of a computer.

So I got a pay-as-you-go phone for under $100. It has a touchscreen, camera, mp3 player, etc. along with a Web browser that just uses pay-as-you-go minutes instead of counting bytes. It uses AT&T's network, so it has the same coverage as my iPhone did. When I'm gonna be on a long call, I just put the cellphone down, put on a headset, and talk through my computer on Google Voice for free.

Now I'm paying $70/month less and wondering why I ever allowed myself to get roped in to those contracts in the first place.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[93 Escort Wagon]

...over where I wrote in big, bold letters NEVER A CONTRACT AGAIN!

I'm in total agreement. We were on a low-end family plan, making almost no calls and spending $80+/month for the privilege.

Now we're on pay as you go. We're still making almost no calls; but my daughter has the unlimited texting she wanted, I can use my new smartphone as much as I care to - and we're paying less than $50/month in total.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[h4rr4r]

What provider is this?
Do they let you bring your own phone or is it some outdated set of midrange smartphones?

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[FsG]

Fascinating! Which plan/provider and phone did you get to do this so cheap?

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[0100010001010011]

I have Virgin Mobile. "Unlimited" data & texting and 300 minutes. $25/month (They just raised it to $35 unless you were grandfathered in). Optimus V that I paid $150 for.

I've rooted it and used it as my internet provider when on vacation with any problems. I use VOIP to get around the 300 minutes a month. For $25 it's absolutely worth it. And since it's prepaid it's $25 + sales tax on $25. Not "$25/month" + 911 fees + a ton of other fees so that it comes out closer to $40/month.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[Wiiboy1]

I have Virgin Mobile. "Unlimited" data & texting and 300 minutes. $25/month (They just raised it to $35 unless you were grandfathered in). Optimus V that I paid $150 for.

I've rooted it and used it as my internet provider when on vacation with any problems. I use VOIP to get around the 300 minutes a month. For $25 it's absolutely worth it. And since it's prepaid it's $25 + sales tax on $25. Not "$25/month" + 911 fees + a ton of other fees so that it comes out closer to $40/month.

+1. I've got a Moto Triumph on VMobile at $25 a month and I love it. Coverage is relatively good in my area, although that's not the case elsewhere (e.g. there's literally nothing in Montana). If you can live with worse coverage, it's a great contract-free option.

Plus, data is still 100% unlimited, at least until some time next year. Even then the soft cap will be 2.5gb.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[93 Escort Wagon]

What provider is this?
Do they let you bring your own phone or is it some outdated set of midrange smartphones?

It's AT&T. I didn't have a smartphone beforehand, so I don't know what hoops you might have to jump through to "bring your own phone in" - but they offer a couple Froyo phones (that theoretically will be upgraded to Gingerbread at some point).

The first month I bought the bigger data plan; but I quickly realized I'm in range of wifi almost all the time. So I get by just fine on 10MB/month.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[Anonymous Coward]

Virgin Mobile - oh you mean Sprint? Nice.

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[goose-incarnated]

Here in the developing world, I got a PAYG bundle for R150 ($18) per 3gig. On contract its R299 ($36.2) for 10gig per month. Since I tether my phone/laptop, the phone only ever gets used as a modem.

Why are you guys paying so much?

Re:They'll have my name on a contract

[k_187]

Oligopoly setting the prices + little to no government support on building out the infrastructure + we're willing to pay it.

that's not bet big...

[hype7]

... that's all in. whoever made that bet should be standing up right now.

Re:Math

[hvrbyte]

Who can't do math? 20,000,000,000 / 30,000,000 = 666.67

Apple

[gottspeed]

People will buy them, they'll offer 'em with long plans to keep the price down, and as the public gets dumber, and they will, more and more people will turn to the one button wipe my bum for me interface. Plus, you're not sophisticated unless you buy whats in the magazines, if you want to mate, you'll buy one.

Re:Apple

[drnb]

...more and more people will turn to the one button wipe my bum for me interface ...

Its a vast improvement over the three sea shells.

Re:Apple

[emeyer]

re: Its a vast improvement over the three sea shells.

How many people are going to get this reference? I'm sorry to admit that I just watched that movie recently.

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Just tell people you heard the movie had a lot of explosions and a young Sandra Bullock in very tight costumes. Most people will understand. :-)

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people are going to get this reference?

What's worse, of those that do know the reference, how many ACTUALLY know how to use the three sea shells?

Re:Apple

[hedwards]

I for one did immediately. It was a movie that deserved to be much more popular. I'm not sure who wrote it, but they did a really good job of putting that sort of detail in without providing even the slightest hint as to how one used the sea shells.

Or the somewhat more explained rise of Taco Bell to rule over the restaurant industry.

Re:Apple

[R3d M3rcury]

Or the somewhat more explained rise of Taco Bell to rule over the restaurant industry.

Only in the US. Elsewhere, it was Pizza Hut.

Re:Apple

[Totenglocke]

Well there's supposed to be a remake coming out next year, so we'll see....

Re:Apple

[goose-incarnated]

I for one did immediately. It was a movie that deserved to be much more popular.

If you really felt that way, why not name the movie? What in case I didn't know you were talking about "Demolition Man"? Huh? Then I'd never actually get around to watching it even though it got lots of good references on slashdot because no one bothered to name the movie.

Re:Math

[Anonymous Coward]

You're off by a 0. Heck, drop the last 7 zeroes, and 2,000 / 3 = 666.67.

Re:Math

[The123king]

You're right. Someone can't do maths. 20,000,000,000 / 30,000,000 = 666.67...

Re:Math

[somersault]

Ahem:

(US$ 20 000 000 000) / 30 000 000 = 666.666667 U.S. dollars

Re:Math

[Anonymous Coward]

(please check your work)

Re:Math

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, someone can't do math, but it's not who you think. :-)

"over 5 years"

[Ossifer]

Who keeps the same phone for five years?

Redo the math considering that people repurchase iphones every 18-24 months...

Re:"over 5 years"

[CBRcrash]

I'm sure that their deal allows for a refresh of their inventory when a new line comes out

Re:"over 5 years"

[93 Escort Wagon]

Who keeps the same phone for five years?

Redo the math considering that people repurchase iphones every 18-24 months...

I am pretty sure my family is atypical; but until we got new phones this year (when we switched to pre-paid), we were still using the phones we'd gotten in 2004.

Re:"over 5 years"

[tepples]

Who keeps the same phone for five years?

I do. I have an Audiovox 8610 dumbphone, and I save 90% on my cell phone bill compared to a smartphone.

Re:"over 5 years"

[rec9140]

"Who keeps the same phone for five years?"

I do!

Motorola UCH80000, Nokia 280, Audiovox 9000, Audiovox 9155gpx, LG VX8610 Decoy (This the first time in years, that I did an upgrade in less than 5 or more years) LG VS740 ALly, but 2015 or so will be the next upgrade, maybe.

Thats since 1984 or so....

Re:"over 5 years"

[Lumpy]

I have a 8 year old Iridium phone that is still active and grandfathered into a pay per minute plan.

who keeps the same phone for 5+ years? people that buy real phones instead of the consumer toys.

Re:"over 5 years"

[Cyno01]

I do. I went from a nokia 3310 to a moto razr to an iphone 3gs. Basically the 3 most popular phones ever.

Re:"over 5 years"

[CharlyFoxtrot]

I save 90% on my cell phone bill compared to a smartphone.

You can see why operators want to dump customers like you for internet junky iPhone users then :-) ?

Re:"over 5 years"

[Totenglocke]

who keeps the same phone for 5+ years? people that never use their phone instead of those who want something useful.

FTFY

Re:"over 5 years"

[gig]

Creaky old Slashdot users.

Re:"over 5 years"

[goose-incarnated]

Who keeps the same phone for five years?

Redo the math considering that people repurchase iphones every 18-24 months...

I am pretty sure my family is atypical; but until we got new phones this year (when we switched to pre-paid), we were still using the phones we'd gotten in 2004.

GP should have asked instead "Who keeps a fashionable item for 5 years, when a new model is out every year?". I use a nokia N76 to make/receive calls, so I'm probably the same as your family unit in that I won't buy a new phone to be fashionable (I do have a decent one to use as a modem, though, an HTC of some sort).

Re:"over 5 years"

[Anonymous Coward]

on the other hand, you also don't have a smartphone. some people actually want those and will pay for one.

Re:"over 5 years"

[Anonymous Coward]

Wah! Wah! says the poor guy that wishes he was cool enough to have a Sat phone.

Wow are you a whiner, looking at most of your posts, you are actually nothing but a illiterate troll.

Satellite phones are Über cool and anyone that owns one actually does a whole lot more with it than some wanna-be that thinks he actually does something with his toy android phone. Facebook and twitter is not "doing anything", just a FYI for you.

This is coming from someone that HAS A new Iridium Phone (I go through about 2 a year from damage or loss overboard) and who has a cellphone bill that is larger than your car payment... Oh wait, you probably don't own a car.. Let's say it's more than you spend on tacos and Mc Donalds in a year.

Re:Math

[Microlith]

Check your math.

20,000,000,000 / 30,500,000 = $655 per device

The question is what this will do to Sprint's fees, and what they plan to do if they fail to double their user base AND get an iPhone into all of their hands.

What are they thinking?

[msobkow]

I really gotta wonder what their executives are thinking. Why not do something to earn the market share like:

• Providing more price-competitive packages.
• Providing better service.
• Upgrading network capacity.
• Providing better 4G caps than the competition.
• ?

Honestly, expecting the sales of iPhone to be the salvation of the company is such naive wishful thinking it's scary. It's a sign of management that has no real ideas about how to be competitive, but only how to be a "me too" provider.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Missing.Matter]

Are they not doing any of that? I'm not a sprint customer, but I've been thinking of switching. They seem to be the only carrier left with an unlimited data plan, their rates seem fairly competitive, and at least in my area coverage is complete (although I don't know how it is around the rest of the country). Considering the iPhone's popularity, perhaps not having it really is limiting their growth. Perhaps maybe $20B is a comparatively cheap way of growing their market share (compared to infrastructure improvements, for example).

Re:What are they thinking?

[demonlapin]

Sprint already has very low rates and no caps. Service and capacity, I don't know. But the other two, they have.

Re:What are they thinking?

[gbjbaanb]

I know one thing that they'll be thinking - no WP7 or Android phones for sale in their stores, or at least, tucked away in the far corner and the salesmen given instructions (and bonuses) to shift iPhone stocks.

You thought it was going to be hard for Windows Phone to get some market share before, it just got a lot harder.

Re:What are they thinking?

[bdenton42]

Both AT&T and Verizon had no caps before iPhone was offered... I would be very surprised if Sprint continued to do so.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Miamicanes]

> Providing more price-competitive packages.

Compared to what? Sprint has plenty of warts, but price (at least, for individual customers with no family plan and exactly one phone who'd burn through AT&T and Verizon's caps within a matter of days and are perfectly cool with $69.95 + $10 for 450 minutes of peak airtime, and more or less unlimited everything else) isn't really something I'd classify as one of them.

> Providing better 4G caps than the competition.

Root your phone like everyone else, and the 4g hotspot caps are meaningless. Sprint chose that specific group very carefully -- the nontechnical users who actually go out and PAY for an official hotspot plan are almost exactly the same group who'll try to use their phone as their one and only means of internet access.

Sprint isn't stupid... they know the overwhelming majority of users who root, reflash, and tether for free already have the most expensive cable or DSL internet access they can buy, and use it instead of their Sprint data service when they're at home just because it's faster and works better. To repeat: Sprint really doesn't care about users who tether once in a blue moon so they can get online with their laptop at an airport somewhere while waiting for a plane. Sprint passionately cares about users who try to use tethering as a substitute for real internet service and 21st-century dialup.

Nobody who has high-end internet access at home is going to screw around with torrenting from a tethered phone, because it would be slow, suck, and annoyingly cause most of your incoming calls to end up going straight to voicemail. Likewise, statistically nobody with the means to tether is going to stream lots of HD video, because it's not free -- users who tether for free rip their content from Blu-Ray, convert it to .mkv, copy it to their 32-gig Class 10 microSD cards, and watch it from THERE. Sprint is one of the few carriers who understands that the users who can most easily subvert any controls they try to impose are likely to be the ones who fall towards the lower end of total monthly data use, simply because those users have better ways of getting online anyway.

> Upgrading network capacity.

No arguments there. Sprint definitely has plenty of room to improve in that regard.

Re:What are they thinking?

[enigmatichmachine]

Agreed completely.
My iphone data usage is ~300 MB/mo. I use netflix app daily.
My wifes is closer to 3 GB/mo. she just browses the web.

the reason? I have wifi on at home and at work.
she doesn't know what wifi is. the phone either works or it doesn't for her. I tried explaining that LOLCATS will load faster if she goes on the wifi, but if it involves doing ANYTHING, pressing a single button, she won't do it.

Re:What are they thinking?

[demonlapin]

Considering that they've made it a huge part of their advertising, I'm guessing that Hesse really means to carry through with it. I don't rate his chances as all that good, but considering that the alternative is to sell the company to Verizon, it's probably not a real waste of money. Verizon isn't going to pay much more than the value of the physical plant + spectrum licenses, and those are worth money even if the company tanks.

Re:What are they thinking?

[vijayiyer]

Doesn't it automatically switch over to wifi when available (i.e., not involving pressing a single button)?

Re:What are they thinking?

[Aranykai]

iPhones don't support connecting to remembered networks automatically?

Re:What are they thinking?

[tepples]

Doesn't it automatically switch over to wifi when available

Not if the user has turned off the Wi-Fi radio to save battery charge while away from Wi-Fi. Or should it know where to turn the Wi-Fi radio on and off based on GPS?

Re:What are they thinking?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

I really gotta wonder what their executives are thinking...

How many customers has Sprint lost because they cannot offer them the iPhone, how many sales to new customers do they continue to lose each day ? Apple sold 20.34 million iPhones in Q3 2011, let's say US sales amount to half that, those are all people who in all probability don't even consider going to Sprint because they chose their (i)phone first and carier second.

Re:What are they thinking?

[mldi]

Which is completely ridiculous considering how profitable Android phones have proven to be, and how WP7 phones have the potential to be. I realize the iPhone draws up a huge number of sales but not more by itself than everything else together. They surely shouldn't be giving all their other customers the shaft by dropping benefits and customer attention just to please the Great Turtleneck. The rest of us are basically paying extra now just so Sprint can get the damned iPhone.

Re:What are they thinking?

[mkremer]

Yes. You need to leave the WiFi enabled for them to do that though.

I assume that is what the press a single button comment was about. The person does not want to turn the WiFi on and off based on location so leaved it off all the time.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Totenglocke]

Customer service is good - I've had billing / account issues and never had any hassles at all or been on the phone more than 10 minutes, TOPS (it's usually under 5 minutes to work out an issue). I'm not sure what you mean by capacity though.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Totenglocke]

Except that other carriers will track your unpaid tethering and either charge you extra or disconnect you. Sprint on the other hand does a *wink wink* *nudge nudge* deal with their $10 "premium data fee" and they don't give a rats ass if you root and then tether for free.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Totenglocke]

Or should it know where to turn the Wi-Fi radio on and off based on GPS?

If you use Tasker on Android, you can program it to do exactly that. I do. I also programmed it to set my phone to silent when I get to work and turn the volume back up once I leave work.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Anonymous Coward]

iphones swamp the carrier signal. Sprint was only a good carrier because they didn't have the iphone.

Just watch, in 6 months people will be bitching about dropped calls on sprint. And no one will notice the common thread.

Re:What are they thinking?

[gig]

With all due respect, that is completely fucking stupid.

All of the things you listed cost money that Sprint does not have because 1) they do not carry the #1 best-selling phone of the last 4 years, which is iPhone; 2) they do not carry the only high-end $600 phone that is still available today, which is iPhone, they only have $300 and $100 phones with much lower profits; 3) they do not carry the phone with the most-profitable contract (iPhone,) which makes twice what any other phone contract makes; and 4) they have lost a ton of subscribers whose #1 reason for leaving was to buy iPhone on another carrier.

So your idea that they pretend iPhone doesn't exist is not only impractical, but does not even qualify as rational. If you were Sprint's CEO and you articulated that strategy, you would be impeached and possibly committed to a mental hospital within hours of opening your mouth.

Re:What are they thinking?

[gig]

If she does not know what Wi-Fi is, she did not turn it off to save battery. That is why Apple put in good battery management rather than leave it to the user to run Tasker like a fucking idiot. Most iPhone users do not even understand that turning off Wi-Fi would save a little battery. They are lawyers and homemakers and artists and managers and waiters and other people who did not play dungeons and dragons when they were kids.

If you go into Wi-Fi with an iPhone, it will ask if you want to join the network. But if you don't know what the password for that network is, iPhone cannot read the mind of the sysadmin and get it for you. At least not yet. If his wife doesn't want to be bothered with Wi-Fi, she does not know the passwords for the networks she is in.

Re:What are they thinking?

[gig]

An iPhone cannot remember a network it has never been on. The issue here is not that she didn't want to login to Wi-Fi the second time, it is that she did not want to login to Wi-Fi the first time.

Re:What are they thinking?

[gbjbaanb]

I'm not sure there's much in it from a service provider PoV. iPhone purchasers tend to spend more on apps, so it sounds fair they're more likely to want the device/plan and not care as much about the cost of it.

Re:What are they thinking?

[demonlapin]

Network capacity; i.e., can it handle the iPhone? As referenced in parent post.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Miamicanes]

AT&T was able to catch iPhone users who tethered because all but one of the iPhone tethering apps hijacked IOS' built-in tethering support, which was trivially easy for AT&T to track due to the way it worked. An app like EasyTether for Android is effectively untraceable by carriers if you use it to establish an IPSEC VPN, because even with deep packet inspection it's indistinguishable from an android app creating the same VPN for its own use. If necessary, we can raise the stakes and use SSH to resurrect SlipKnot to our own servers. Or masquerade it as an RDP back-channel audio stream.

There's a difference between carriers being able to cast a net and catch unsophisticated iPhone users who downloaded some point and click tethering app, and being able to catch people who are hellbent on sliding under the radar and have the technical skill to pull it off.

Re:What are they thinking?

[tepples]

If you go into Wi-Fi with an iPhone, it will ask if you want to join the network

Same with an Android device. But it still takes battery power to listen for SSID broadcasts.

Re:What are they thinking?

[MrNiceguy_KS]

In my experience, on every phone I've used, GPS uses more power than Wi-Fi, especially if the Wi-Fi isn't actually connected. I use Tasker, (and previously Mode Switcher for WebOS,) to set different settings for home and work, but it was triggered by being in range of the appropriate WiFi network. I keep GPS turned off unless I've opened an app that actually uses it.

Re:What are they thinking?

[Totenglocke]

Wi-Fi being left running will trash your battery because it's constantly searching for new networks to connect to. I used to leave GPS off unless I opened Maps or Navigation, but I got sick of the fact (this was on my Evo 4G, haven't tried it on my Evo 3D) that the app opened faster than the GPS turned on and I'd have to manually switch over and turn it on.

So...

[FaxeTheCat]

...some company has made a contract with some other company based on the belief that a lot of people are going to buy mobile phones in the reasonably near future.

Meanwhile some other company are ordering a lot of flat meat-like substances based on the belief that lots of people will buy hamburgers in the near future.

Big deal!

Re:So...

[gig]

You're right. This is like an article that says McDonald's is going to spend $20 billion on beef patties over the next 5 years.

OMG is there even that much money in the world? Where are they going to get it all?

Preview of the IPhone 5, from NMA in Tapei.

[Animats]

Preview of the iPhone 5

Re:Preview of the IPhone 5, from NMA in Tapei.

[Anonymous Coward]

NRSFW.... thanks for the heads up though douche.

20,000M / 30.5M = 655.74

[perpenso]

Who can't do math? 20,000,000,000 / 30,000,000 = 666.67

FWIW its 30.5M not 30M.

So 20,000M / 30.5M = 655.74.

Apologies to the Iron Maiden fans who were liking the earlier calculation. ;-)

And in the meantime ....

[unity100]

Customers are being bitches to the agreements and schemes made in between corporations, totally without their participation or will.

They still have

[milbournosphere]

unlimited plans that are, well, unlimited. I really hope that they mention that talking point heavily in their advertising.

Re:They still have

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the fine print .. its 5 gig

Re:They still have

[Xenx]

Only 4g hotspot is limited to 5gb.

Re:They still have

[Totenglocke]

TECHNICALLY the 3G data is "unlimited" at 5 gigs, but they don't enforce it. 4G data on phones is 100% unlimited.

iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[shutdown -p now]

The idea of iPhone 5 being a Sprint exclusive doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Obviously it would be great for Sprint, but I don't see what Apple would get from such an arrangement, other than a horde of pissed off existing customers who have a shiny new toy dangled in front of their face and then told that they can't have it right here and now.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing they got from AT&T, several trucks filled with money.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[UnknowingFool]

But would it be enough to offset the phone sales they would have gotten? At the current rate, Apple sells 20M iPhones a quarter. If the rumor is true then AT&T and Verizon customers will not have new iPhones until 2012 at the earliest. For the sake of argument only 10% of the 20M would have bought from AT&T and Verizon in the US and at estimated $600 per phone with $180 margin, Apple would stand to lose $360M profit/ $1.2B revenue in the next 3 months alone. (10% of 20M X $600 X 30% margin). I don't see how Spring could pay Apple enough money to offset their potential sales.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[larry bagina]

People are still buying the iPhone 4 after 18 months. People are still buying the iPhone 3GS after 2 years. A 3-month lag won't kill their sales (especially so if they drop the price on the iPhone 4 and the new phone (5? 4S?) is a relatively minor update).

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[ColdWetDog]

Exactly. Unless Apple is really worried about Android (or perhaps RIM, but certainly not Nokia^HMicrosoft). And they don't seem to be that worried.

But here we are again, playing "Wack an iPhone". Apple hasn't even formally announced the damn thing yet.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[Macrat]

but I don't see what Apple would get from such an arrangement

A load of cash from Sprint?

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[shutdown -p now]

That would be a very huge load of cash, to compensate for all the lost sales.

So huge, in fact, that I doubt Sprint would have that much to spend.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[Spy Hunter]

Apple could get concessions like better integration with traditional telco infrastructure. Remember Visual Voicemail in the OG iPhone, credited to the collaboration with AT&T? Maybe now we'll see IP calling, integrated FaceTime, etc. Also, Apple could get service guarantees for iPhone users like guaranteed infrastructure investments, unlimited and unthrottled data and/or tethering. Also, piles of money. Perhaps the new iPhone is more expensive to manufacture and Apple needs bigger subsidies that only Sprint agreed to.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[Macrat]

That would be a very huge load of cash, to compensate for all the lost sales.

A big assumption on your part. Apple has had no trouble selling iPhones so far.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[shutdown -p now]

That's my point exactly. Apple has had no trouble selling iPhones through AT&T and Verizon with no exclusivity deals. Why have one now, especially when it'll mean that existing customers (a considerable number of which would otherwise buy iPhone 5) would be locked out of it - because even among Apple fans, few would switch to Sprint just so they could get a new iPhone.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[j-beda]

Maybe Apple knows it won't be able to keep up with demand for some time and that being exclusive to whoever will still allow them to immediately sell every single device that comes off the end of the production line.

If that is the case, the exclusivity deal might actually be of value to Apple even without a truckload of cash as a payment. Having the newest model for sale everywhere, but unavailable anywhere is actually pretty bad from a PR point of view, The "fanboys" on the "other" carriers would possibly be more pissed if their carrier was allowed to sell it but wasn't able to meet demand compared to how they might feel towards Apple if it just wasn't available on their carrier.

Re:iPhone 5 may be a Sprint exclusive

[gig]

The only way I could see an exclusive iPhone for Sprint making sense is if it was a new low-end model made for the prepay market, which Tim Cook said about a year ago that they would do at some point in the future. I believe Sprint has more prepay customers (at least as a percentage) than the other carriers. I have a friend who has an iPod touch and a free prepay phone, and she would really rather just have a prepay phone inside her iPod touch.

Commitment?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mr. Hesse told the board the carrier would have to agree to purchase at least 30.5 million iPhones over the next four years—a commitment of $20 billion at current rates—whether or not it could find people to buy them, according to people familiar with the matter."

It sounds like someone at the board meeting was screaming "Why don't we have an iphone on Sprint!!" and CEO Hesse responded and said "We looked into it and this is what it would take." Doesn't sound like an all in bet to me.

Virgin Mobile

[darkwing_bmf]

So... does this mean Virgin Mobile will now offer iPhones to the pre-paid market?

more phones? no..

[Anonymous Coward]

They dont need more/better phones. THEY NEED BETTER SERVICE. I would have stayed with sprints unlimited $129 family plan forever if they gave me coverage for my smart phones. Instead I paid my way out of their contract to be with verizons horrible 2gb/m cap, if for no other reason than to actually have service/3g coverage.

And guess what, i do. 0 buyers remorse to have consistently workable phone.

I'm in a quandry now...

[tekiegreg]

My contract with Sprint is up soon and I was debating new phones. So I suppose I can look forward to the following in the time to come:

1) An influx of Iphone 5 users saturating what is now a pretty decent network in my opinion, about to do what AT&T did when they got the Iphones in (aka fall flat on their back)
2) I'm a Droid user, and awfully curious as to how well Droid is going to be supported by Sprint down the line...will they still bother to carry Droids, is anything else besides Droid and Sprint even going to be an option (aka Windows Phone 7)?

I worry....

Re:I'm in a quandry now...

[Totenglocke]

I seriously want to pistol whip people who refer to Android as "Droid" - "Droid" is a particular line of phones sold through Verizon which was launched with a phone simply called "Droid". If you don't know the name of the OS you're using on your smartphone, perhaps you'd be better off using an iPhone?

Why would Apple do this?

[93 Escort Wagon]

I call shenanigans.

Apple has had no problems selling all the iPhones they can make - so what would they gain by doing this? It seems like, if anything, they'd lose potential income, given that Sprint would almost certainly be paying less than retail.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[NeMon'ess]

Sprint pays them extra for exclusivity while Apple ramps up production.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sprint orders so much that Apple has insufficient manufacturing capability to guarantee enough phones to the other carriers. Since AT&T and Verizon don't want to look bad by offering such limited quantities, they opt for a later release date.

Just a crazy theory.

CAPTCHA: possible

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[ravenscar]

I think Apple has a fair amount to gain here - if they are doing something creative.

Think of the introduction of the original iPhone. Apple negotiated an exclusive deal with AT&T in exchange for a share of the revenue AT&T received from the monthly contracts. Of course, AT&T hated that deal and got out of it as quickly as possible.

Sprint is just desperate enough to try something like that - expecially if they could pick up an exclusive version of the iPhone (perhaps a 4G version or a iPhone 5 as opposed to the 4S). I have no doubt that this would drive new customers to Sprint.

I think Apple likes the idea of revenues after the sale and I have a feeling that could be part of the deal.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[UnknowingFool]

Yes but it would have to be a lot of freaking money. Currently Apple sells 20M a quarter which is estimated to be $12B revenue/$3.6B in profit per quarter. Assuming the earliest AT&T/Verizon customers get their iPhone would be January 1, 2012 that's at least a quarter. I don't know how many lost/delayed sales that translates to but at 10% it's still $1.2B revenue/$360M profit. The other thing that doesn't make sense is the current rumor is the next iPhone is dual mode CDMA/GSM. So there would be no technical reason why they have exclusivity. If it was the iPhone 4 which comes in two different models so ramping up production of two different manufacturing lines isn't a problem.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[UnanimousCoward]

Maybe Apple simultaneously developed three iPhone 5s: one with WiMAX, one with LTE, and one with HSPA+? Maybe the WiMAX model came out of production first (why, who knows/cares)? Maybe Apple is taking advantage of the situation this way?

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[slimjim8094]

It only worked in 07 because smartphones were so very terrible, and the iPhone was the only decent one. The iPhone 5 is competing with itself and a truckload of Android phones, and someone who wants an ATT or Verizon smartphone already has options. Apple will just lose out on the upgraders, who will hold out rather than switch.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[nine-times]

Well I have my doubts, but they may have a few reasons for doing this. First, it's possible that the specifics on this deal make it beneficial for Apple. Remember that it's not just about selling enough phones-- Apple's original deal with AT&T was supposedly the result, in part, of AT&T being willing to forgo AT&T branding, provide unlimited data plans, and to work with Apple on "visual voicemail". It may be that Apple has an unannounced feature that required carrier cooperation and Sprint was willing to cooperate.

Similarly, it may be that Apple decided that all iPhone 5 models should have 4G support, and only Sprint's 4G network was considered "ready". I don't know how what the current download speeds are that people are getting through WiMax, but it sounds like the HSPA+ networks really should be called 3G+. Verizon LTE is faster, but unfortunately current models using LTE suffer from short battery life. If WiMax is able to achieve superior real-world results, I could see Apple putting some weight behind it.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never seen an Apple zealot hold out for any length of time. Apple has nothing to lose. The fanbois will pay the cancellation fees to go to Sprint the day the exclusive iPhone 5 comes out there. They will then pay the cancellation fee to buy ANOTHER iPhone 5 the day it comes out on Verizon or AT&T. The exclusivity with Sprint gets Apple multiple phone sales to the same cult followers for the same model of phone. Apple stands to make MORE money.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[WalrusSlayer]

Maybe I'm not in your category of "Apple zealot", but our household has seen every model of iPhone since the first one. But no way would I switch carriers just to get an early lead on the iPhone 5. I've been eligible for a discounted handset-upgrade since April, but have been holding out for the new iPhone. If Apple really does something as boneheaded as a Sprint exclusive, I will just wait a little longer.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[narcc]

It only worked in 07 because smartphones were so very terrible, and the iPhone was the only decent one.

Don't be ridiculous. The first iPhone lacked basic features which had for years been common to even the cheapest giveaway dumb phones.

The only thing really spectacular about the first iPhone was the browser. IIRC, you couldn't even install apps on the thing. It's debatable that the thing even qualifies as a smartphone.

Even the iPhone 4 is still behind many pre-iPhone offerings when it comes to traditional features like PIM functions and notifications.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[shilly]

That's right. Apple completely misread what users really valued with their first iPhone offers. They twatted around with multitouch and a responsive OS and Safari and iPod functionality, when what they should have done straight away was put in place notifications and cut-and-paste and multitasking. It was for exactly this reason that the iPhone sold so poorly. I mean, who even remembers the iPhone now?

Thankfully, though, they've wised up a bit and appointed narcc as their Chief Twattery Officer to advise them on how to make complete twats of themselves by focusing on the features of least value to their customers. Now that they're taking his wise words on board, perhaps they can start the slow haul back to profitability.

Nobber.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

WWSD?

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[Junta]

I presume this is more on the 'exclusive' bit, not just Sprint doing the phone at all. Otherwise the doubt makes no sense.

At this point, Apple is pretty confident that probably the vast majority of the users who would buy the device would buy it no matter what, regardless of network. Apple has the brand loyalty, not AT&T and not Verizon. Sprint comes up offering a bigger subsidy chunk to let Apple charge more for a limited time and poof, instant profit without much risk. If they establish clearly that in half a year or so the iPhone 5 will land on AT&T/Verizon, that should keep users *truly* dedicated to those networks from jumping devices, and would delay (not eliminate) the revenue opportunity there.

Re:Why would Apple do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

No one has mentioned it, but my first thought is that they are concerned about the mobile market in the US. T-Mobile may be going to the mothership of ATT. Verizon has been talked about wanting to buy Sprint within a couple of years. The spectrum alone would make the deal useful to VZW.

But what would Apple get from all of this consolidation? Squat. They already have deals in place with the big 2. And if the market shifts to this duopoly, Apple's demands will be taken less seriously by the wireless carriers, even if ever so slightly. Apple wants their iPhone users to use not insignificant amounts of bandwidth. VZW and ATT have already throttle users who make use of their mobile data plans. Sprint is the only one pushing for unlimited data currently. Even if that changes in the future, Apple may want to reward them now for doing so to maintain the mobile competition.

Meanwhile...

[Charliemopps]

So Apple goes to ATT and says "Sprint's offered to buy 30 million iPhone 5s if we go exclusive with them, can you make a better offer?" ATT giggled to themselves and said "No thanks" Then promptly called a board meeting to discuss buying Sprint after their stock tanks sometime next year. They'll get all their subscribers and the Apple contract for less than the contract itself would have cost them.

I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad idea

[gabeman-o]

- BGR says that the exclusivity will only last until Q1 2012... very short lived for a $20bil investment
- No iPhone 4 users (except people who purchased out of contract) will even be able to switch without paying a hefty penalty, making it nearly impossible for Sprint to win over a good chunk of the current iPhone users. Why is this important? Many of these people are early adopters. Luring them to Sprint for a 2 year commitment would be a huge win for Sprint. My guess is that the market for the iPhone 5 is much bigger for those that already have an iPhone 4 than those who don't. Even if the exclusivity was for an entire year, it would be just in time for upgrade window and contract ending for the current crop of iPhone 4 owners.
- Sprint is a discount provider, along with T-Mobile. They really do not compete at the same level, in terms of service and coverage, as AT&T and Verizon. People are less likely to switch from AT&T & VZW to Sprint
- For the above 2 reasons, hitting the kind of sales that Sprint needs to make that commitment to Apple seems unlikely
- The article pegs the Sprint version as a WiMAX phone. Sprint has already said that their strategic direction for 4G is LTE. Why would Apple or Sprint invest $20 billion in a technology (soon to be) in decline?

If Sprint is indeed doing this, they are betting the farm on the iPhone 5. If I was a shareholder, I'd be concerned.

it was unpredicted

[goombah99]

In other completely unpredicted news...

a sprint exclusive would be a surprise to most people. It would fit with the conflicting stories we've heard. And it would make sense for apple too as a way to turn a negative-- limited supply-- in to a positive value--exclusivity premium paid by the carrier-- without raising the price.

this will make me sad. I can totally understand the logic if it's true. But I was so hoping that t-mobile or Verizon would get the iphone 5. We don't get sprint or aT&T where I live.

Re:it was unpredicted

[Macrat]

But I was so hoping that t-mobile or Verizon would get the iphone 5. We don't get sprint or aT&T where I live.

There's a rumor that Cincinatti Bell has the new iPhone in their order system and they use the same frequency as T-Mobile.

If true, that could mean buying an unlocked iPhone directly from Apple would get T-Mobile's faster data speeds.

We'll find out soon.

Re:it was unpredicted

[tripleevenfall]

what if Sprint were positioning itself to be acquired by Apple?

Re:it was unpredicted

[goombah99]

then they'd be wasting their money.

Re:it was unpredicted

[Miamicanes]

If Sprint DOES end up with exclusivity, I can almost guarantee it won't extend beyond December 1. Honestly, I wouldn't expect it to last beyond November 15th. Sprint will probably get to have it to themselves for four weeks while Foxconn builds more for AT&T and Verizon, then Apple throws open the floodgates to make as much money as it can before Christmas. There's no way in HELL Apple would risk losing Christmas sales to people who'd prefer an iPhone, but will take a high-end Android phone if it means having it to play with on Christmas Day.

That doesn't look like much of a Volume discount.

[guidryp]

$655 each?? That is more than a 3G iPad at retail.

You would think with a volume of 30 Million+, you could get a a big volume discount.

I'm off contract soon...

[Lumpy]

Hey sprint, Give me 2 of the new iphones at $99.00 each and the same plan as AT&T but with less suckage in coverage and 3G as well as a $20.00 a month discount on the service for the 2 years and I'll switch right now.

I'll jump ship if you make it worth my time.

and THAT is what they will need to do. make it worth my time to risk a change for a 2 year lock in. I should pay less all the way around if you want my business.

Re:I'm off contract soon...

[Totenglocke]

Yes, they should lost massive amounts of money to gain you as a customer. Their plans are already cheaper than AT&T PLUS they're superior due to unlimited mobile-to-mobile calls and unlimited data. You're exactly the kind of douchebag that companies don't want to do business with - you think you should get everything imaginable for less than it costs to produce.

450 minutes? I don't even use 45

[tepples]

Sprint has plenty of warts, but price (at least, for individual customers with no family plan and exactly one phone who'd burn through AT&T and Verizon's caps within a matter of days and are perfectly cool with $69.95 + $10 for 450 minutes of peak airtime, and more or less unlimited everything else) isn't really something I'd classify as one of them.

Unless one is used to cellular service costing that much per year because that's what Sprint's Virgin Mobile USA offers for dumbphones, and they don't make even 45 minutes of cellular calls a month, let alone 450. People who rely on a prepaid dumbphone (such as myself) probably have POTS or VoIP at home and use the cellular network to make only urgent calls such as to arrange rides, not unlike your urban users who turn on the smartphone's Wi-Fi at home and work.

Nobody who has high-end internet access at home is going to screw around with torrenting from a tethered phone

Except perhaps people who live outside the coverage area of cable and DSL service, where nobody offers "high-end internet access at home", where the best options for home Internet are satellite and fixed 3G/4G. They're the people who should be using Qwikster instead of Netflix.

because it would be slow, suck, and annoyingly cause most of your incoming calls to end up going straight to voicemail

Then schedule your torrents to kick in between 1 AM and 6 AM, when your incoming calls were going to voice mail anyway.

Re:450 minutes? I don't even use 45

[Miamicanes]

> Except perhaps people who live outside the coverage area of cable and DSL service, where nobody offers
>"high-end internet access at home", where the best options for home Internet are satellite and fixed 3G/4G

Please, enlighten me. Name one Google'able address anywhere in America where there's solid 300kbps+ EVDO coverage from Sprint, but cable internet or pair-bonded IDSL of comparable speed or better is unavailable at any cost. No, 153kbps 1xRTT doesn't count, nor does the ability to mount a directional antenna on the roof and get fixed wireless service through Wimax. I'm talking about literally whipping out an Evo indoors and getting anything better than sub-ISDN speeds if you're lucky. People who practically live in the shadow of Sprint's towers can barely get 4G to work indoors, and you honestly think you're going to have viable 4G service on a PHONE somewhere that's so far out in BFE, you can't even get pair-bonded IDSL or cable internet?

iPhones and Android phones aren't for frugal people who want to spend $12/month to make emergency calls. They're for people who live online 24/7, and would dump satellite TV and their landline phone long before they even contemplated giving up unlimited wireless data and top-tier broadband.

Re:450 minutes? I don't even use 45

[Maxx169]

because it would be slow, suck, and annoyingly cause most of your incoming calls to end up going straight to voicemail

Then schedule your torrents to kick in between 1 AM and 6 AM, when your incoming calls were going to voice mail anyway.

UMTS quite happily supports multi-RAB (i.e. both voice and data at the same time) so your incoming calls shouldn't end up going straight to voicemail.

Re:Math

[Caerdwyn]

Oh you mean "Americans other than myself". Those OTHERS. Those "everybody except superior, smug me".

Funny how all the expert economists hold jobs in IT that let them troll Slashdot, and all the "idiots" are the ones who are running the country. Funny how all those superior Europeans (you know, the ones who have spent the Eurozone into oblivion through entitlements and bread-and-circuses and the alleged "superior math education") are now facing waves of national debt defaults and bank failures. How could that possibly have happened? I mean... they're not stupid Americans, they're SUPERIOR!

Let's see how everyone does when the flow of stupid-American money stops and they realize just how much of the Socialist Paradise floated on the not-so-endless stream of greenbacks.

Re:Math

[Runaway1956]

ROFLMAO, smartass. I'm not awash in debt. I manage to make ends meet. I'm atypical, alright? I'm not quite as tight as my son, or my father in law was - I can't pinch a penny hard enough to get tears from the portrait. But, I'm not in debt. If I lost my job tomorrow, I needn't worry about making car payments, house payments, credit card payments, tuition payments, 2nd mortgage payments - none of that.

So, yes, I can do basic math. If I make ten dollars, I spend a little less than ten dollars. If I make a thousand dollars, I spend a little less than 900 dollars. MOST Americans make ten dollars and spend twelve. When they make a thousand, they spend 1100, and sign a note for another 500. Basic math, son, very basic. You can't spend more than you make.

Hmm, a Nextel iPhone

[countertrolling]

Where's the PTT button?

Let me Guess...

[WizADSL]

They did this because they couldn't buy Nextel again?

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[BulletMagnet]

Sprint's is supposedly replacing their tower side gear to run EVERYTHING ...

http://newsroom.sprint.com/press_kits.cfm?presskit_id=19

Retail rates.

[Anonymous Coward]

The summary states "retail rates". I don't think Sprint will be paying retail price on a bulk purchase. Only a MORON would think or do that. Hell I don't expect Sprint to even pay distributor price. They should be paying direct from manufacturer price.

The only moron I can think who paid retail rates on a massive bulk purchase was Best Buy, who agreed to pay an inexplicable $8.75 per copy on a direct from pressing plant purchase of 1.6 million copies. That's a price I'd expect to pay a jobber for a one time 30 piece order, not a freakingly huge 1.6 million pieces. It's business deals like this that makes me wonder how these people are able to be hired.

Re:Math

[optimism]

Basic math, son, very basic. You can't spend more than you make.

Actually, you can.

The USA as a country, has consistently done this, running trade deficits with every major trade partner. This behavior has been supported by the status of the US Dollar as the dominant global reserve currency (since Bretton Woods) and petrocurrency (since the early 1970s).

Even today, after decades of financial shenanigans, the US can print its way out of debt by simply creating more dollars. This is called "quantitative easing", or "QE", so the average shmoe either thinks it is too complicated to consider, or associates it with British royalty.

It's no surprise that this financial mentality would propagate down through banks, corporations, and the ruling class and eventually to the average American shmoe. You CAN spend much more than you make. The more audacious you are, the more you can borrow. Until it catches up to you. Then you can declare bankruptcy, and all of your debts are wiped off the board. It's the new American Dream. :p

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[bluegreen997]

Sprint is a discount provider, along with T-Mobile. They really do not compete at the same level, in terms of service and coverage, as AT&T and Verizon. People are less likely to switch from AT&T & VZW to Sprint

Citation needed.

I'm in a quandry now...but you're NOT on a "Droid"

[xenoc_1]

Dude, you're not a *Droid* user unless you're on Verizon. You're an *Android* user.

Android isn't going anywhere. I'd be more worried about Sprint going away rather than Sprint (if it stays in business) dropping Android phones. If you haven't noticed, over the past couple of years, Sprint has successfully bet the company on Android. Pretty much the only reason they still are in business.

Re:Math

[optimism]

~$599 phone + ~$105/mo bill * 5 years = ~$7000...didn't you realize that your little pocket toy cost more than most used cars?

Sorry, but you are insane.

My iPhone 4 32GB cost $299 + $60/month on a 2-year contract with voice, data, and messaging. That totals $1739 for phone plus 2 years of cell service.

Since a basic home land-line costs $20/mo (without long-distance service), I figure that the cell service with long-distance voice, data, apps, and text/image/video messaging is worth at least $40/mo. So, the total cost of the phone is at most $299 + $20/month, or $779, over 2 years.

With the iPhone 3GS, it works out to $49 + $20/month = $529.

I recently sold a 20-year-old Honda Civic with a blown head gasket for more than that.

Wake up.

Re:I hate this idea...

[iluvcapra]

"I wish Sprint would have fewer customers and make less money -- passing up on high-margin customers, risking buyout, a selloff of assets, and long-term degredation of the network -- because it means my Sprint reception will be better over the next 6 months."

Adverse selection at work.

Good for Sprint!

[Hohlraum]

I loved Sprint's service/coverage when I was with them for 9 years. I only switched to Verizon because of the Droid 1. I hope that this resuscitates Sprint. More wireless providers = more competition and that is great news for everyone! Now if only these wireless providers would give existing customers the same red carpet treatment that new customers command.

retghodifh

[Anonymous Coward]

frhdighidg

Re:retghodifh

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Typed on an iPhone keyboard?

Clearwire

[tepples]

pair-bonded IDSL

IDSL is 0.14 Mbps, and if 1xRTT doesn't count, neither does IDSL.

[rural areas] where the best options for home Internet are satellite and fixed 3G/4G

No, 153kbps 1xRTT doesn't count, nor does the ability to mount a directional antenna on the roof and get fixed wireless service through Wimax.

Fixed WiMAX service is exactly what I was referring to by "fixed 4G". But I'll admit that my original comment displayed a bit of cluttered thought.

iPhones and Android phones aren't for frugal people who want to spend $12/month to make emergency calls. They're for people who live online 24/7

Some people need to run applications that are exclusive to smartphones and not available for PCs. This includes, for example, the check/cheque deposit application for an online-only bank or other bank with no ATMs near the customer. Or how would you recommend depositing a check/cheque to such a bank?

Re:Clearwire

[Miamicanes]

Pair-bonded IDSL is basically two IDSL lines aggregated as PPP Multilink. It won't do much for a single user using something like RDP or VNC, but for web browsing that involves one request for a page followed by a burst of requests for separate files, it effectively doubles it.

If you're willing to get down & dirty with Covad, pull out the checkbook, and let them work their magic on dry copper pairs leased from the ILEC, they can do even more impressive things and go places where mainstream mass-market ISPs are afraid to tread. I've read of people in rural Tennessee who've gotten 460kbit and more 25 miles from the nearest CO. The catch is, it's not cheap. They're basically building a private ISP for you alone by leasing rackspace at a central office, and pulling off some fairly expensive DSP magic (possibly with repeaters along the way to regenerate the signal) to get you the fastest data possible.

It's not mainstream, because most "rural folks" who aren't wealthy New Yorkers living in a cabin in the mountains because it's cute and cool can't afford to spend several hundred dollars per month for what's basically commercial-grade internet access, but you'd be amazed at what you can get if installation fees in the neighborhood of $1k-5k and monthly service fees between $250 and $500 are tolerable. I think the pair-bonded IDSL route is the most popular solution in Tennessee, because the way phone service is regulated there makes ISDN dirt cheap compared to the rest of the country, so it's not prohibitively expensive to just order more lines and aggregate them in parallel with PPP multilink the way people used to shotgun 56k modems in the late 90s.

> Or how would you recommend depositing a check/cheque to such a bank?

If you don't want to spend significant amounts of money on internet service? With a PC, a scanner, and a dialup modem. Worst-case, you can probably run the Android emulator in wifi mode (not sure whether the emulator can use the PC's webcam, I've never actually tried it).

I figure something must be going on...

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard advisements over the weekend from a regonal carrier in my state pushing people to buy an unlocked iPhone and bring it to them for service.

Is someone having a sale on unlocked iPhones?

wouldn't it be best

[sixsixtysix]

if these phones makers dumped the exclusivity-amongst-carriers shenanigans?

Re:Math

[cyn1c77]

~$599 phone + ~$105/mo bill * 5 years = ~$7000...didn't you realize that your little pocket toy cost more than most used cars?

Sorry, but you are insane.

My iPhone 4 32GB cost $299 + $60/month on a 2-year contract with voice, data, and messaging. That totals $1739 for phone plus 2 years of cell service.

Since a basic home land-line costs $20/mo (without long-distance service), I figure that the cell service with long-distance voice, data, apps, and text/image/video messaging is worth at least $40/mo. So, the total cost of the phone is at most $299 + $20/month, or $779, over 2 years.

With the iPhone 3GS, it works out to $49 + $20/month = $529.

I recently sold a 20-year-old Honda Civic with a blown head gasket for more than that.

Wake up.

Why are you using a 2-year cost when the person you are responding to used a 5-year cost?

I don't necessarily agree with his argument, but I definitely don't understand your logic!

Re:Math

[optimism]

Why are you using a 2-year cost when the person you are responding to used a 5-year cost?

Because as far as I know, the maximum commitment for a subsidized cell phone in the US is 2 years. At least that's my experience with AT&T and Verizon.

I just tried to shop for phones & plans on Sprint's website for comparison, and it choked with the message: "We're sorry Login to Chat END TALISMA CHAT BUTTON". Ouch. Point gun at foot. Fire.

Re:Math

[mosb1000]

The contract between Apple and Sprint is 5 years, we are talking about the end user. ATT and Verizon sell it with a two year contract, so it's pretty silly to think the user is somehow going to be signing on for a 5 year contract.

Re:Math

[optimism]

you're an idiot

Wow, chief, you sure got me there.

Did you have any information to add to your earlier misinformed rant? Like, e.g., does Sprint have an unusually long contract commitment for their phones, more than 2 years?

I'll also point out: You can also buy a brand-new, unlocked iPhone 4, with no service contract commitments, directly from Apple for $649. That is more than 10 times cheaper than your ludicrous claims.

Re:Math

[Cimexus]

Agreed. Here in Australia I paid $899 for the iPhone (bought outright, unlocked, no contract) and spend $20 a month on calls and data. My cost over two years is thus $1379.

Who is paying six grand for an iPhone over two years? Even on contract on a high-end/unlimited plan it's nowhere near that much.

Re:Math

[Cimexus]

Replying to own post here. GP used a five year time period (should have read closer!) which changes the figures. Apologies to GP.

Even so though I think you'd be hard pressed to pay six grand over 5 years (here, at least). I don't think $100+ plans exist here, even unlimited ones are only in the order of $60/month...

Sprint Exclusive? Maybe in the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought that the internet was supposed to cross borders and stuff...
I know from Slasdot that Sprint is a US mobile phone company, but... how are they going to have an exclusive on a product that is sold world-wide, in countries where Sprint doesn't operate, like here in Japan?

Is it so hard to add "in the US" when you mean that? Anyway, the rumors here are that Au might start offering the iPhone soon (Currently it is just Softbank Mobile who provides service for Apple devices officially).

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

wake ur mum's face up.

article said 5 years. i said 5 years. you said 2 years.

you're an idiot.

Dude. Stop digging.

Retail rates != wholesale price.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a number WSJ pulled out of their ass from guessing the unlocked price multiplied by the number of phones Sprint supposedly is going to buy. No no company is going to pay retail price on a multi-million piece order.

iPhone sales double organically every year

[gig]

If you want to sell 30 billion iPhones over 4 years, you do this:

- 2 million in 2012
- 4 million in 2013
- 8 million in 2014
- 16 million in 2015

the reason it is easy is that iPhone sales double organically every year. The same effort that you put in to sell 2 million in 2012 results in 16 million sales in 2015.

This is a very minimum commitment, and for a carrier that runs a nonstandard network, they are lucky that Apple made them a CDMA phone at all.

Re:That doesn't look like much of a Volume discoun

[gig]

Yes, iPads are cheaper than iPhones. That is because low-end PC's cost less than high-end smartphones.

They are not buying in volume. There is no way that Sprint wrote a $20 billion check to Apple and won't pay them anything again for 5 years. They will pay as they go.

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[gig]

There is no $20 billion investment. It is $20 billion over 5 years. That is only $4 billion per year. If that sounds large, remember that iPhone sales just double all by themselves every single year. If you think Sprint can sell n iPhones in 2012, then they can sell 2n in 2013, 4n in 2014, 8n in 2015, and 16n in 2016. They could easily sell over 20 million iPhones in 2016 all by themselves.

 

Why would Apple do this?

[plumbingarv123]

I reckon your work, and webpage, are outstanding. Arvada Plumbing Arvada Plumbing Arvada Plumbing Westminster Plumbing

Re:Math

[Anonymous Coward]

oh, somebody touched a nerve did they? Ok so Americans can't do basic math NOR can spell. I hope your butthurt gets better

Re:Math

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "too big to fail," moron. Learn how to properly capitalize as well as the proper placement of commans.

You're an ignorant hypocrite.

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[Anonymous Coward]

- Sprint is a discount provider, along with T-Mobile. They really do not compete at the same level, in terms of service and coverage, as AT&T and Verizon. People are less likely to switch from AT&T & VZW to Sprint

The service quality and coverage on my Sprint phone is better than just about everyone I know with an ATT phone and comparable/better than those with Verizon, so I'm not sure what you mean. Beyond that if I can't connect to a Sprint tower and have to go out of network I don't mind - roaming is free on Sprint. In 7 years of Sprint I've had 1 dropped call, which I am able to count because it surprised me so much.

Not if exclusive..

[Junta]

Sprint may have agreed to such a high price in exchange for exclusivity. In this way, Sprint would be assuming the risk and Apple fanatics can still get their toy at the same price point. Apple is pretty sure at this point they can put their shiny toy on whatever network(s) they wish and customers will follow the device and not the network.

If they had a 6 month exclusive lock on it, it may well be worth it. Apple users tend to do *anything* to get the new toy, ETFs and all.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ummm, ok. I think.

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Sprint's LTE isn't ready.

Looking True for Sprint

[thomasw_lrd]

I have a friend that works for Sprint, is pretty high up in the company, and he posted on facebook yesterday, that big news was coming on Oct. 4th.

Re:Math

[Andy Dodd]

You're an idiot. It's silly to think that someone would sign a contract for more than 2 years for a device that will be obsolete in 2, and it's silly to think that a person isn't going to go for an upgrade at the end of those 2 years. (Again - product obsolescence.)

Also, your $105/month estimate is WAY high. This is Sprint we're talking about, typically one of the cheaper carriers. Data plans are usually $20-30/month. Voice plan shouldn't be counted, since the assumption is that someone getting a smartphone probably had voice service already.

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Agreed. I'm sure it varies in different parts of the country, but where I live and work, Sprint has the best coverage of any carrier. I work in an old building that's absolute murder on cell signal. There's huge dead zones all over - unless you're on Sprint.

Now, throw a bunch of iPhone users on and we may see coverage crapping it's pants just as badly as AT&T.

Re:I don't believe it, but here's why it's a bad i

[Anonymous Coward]

- Sprint is a discount provider, along with T-Mobile. They really do not compete at the same level, in terms of service and coverage, as AT&T and Verizon. People are less likely to switch from AT&T & VZW to Sprint

The only thing discount about Sprint compared to AT&T is the price.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I think your goal is to make me angry, but alas, I am in a good mood today. I even feel like feeding a good hairy mountain troll. These things can be funny at times.

In my original post, I said "Stop digging". I can only reassert this advice which, even though you've dug yourself a whole lot deeper now, is still the best thing I think you should do.

Just my $0.02 of course, YMMV.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I somehow doubt that my mom's face has (or has had) any goal. And no, she doesn't look very pleased when I'm angry, so I'd say your first sentence is wrong for the most part.

I noticed that it's the second time you mention my pseudo. Do you have a personal grudge against x and y?

And since I must get at your level in order for you to understand at least a word from my post, I'll say something about your last sentence: Ditto.

You turn.

No Data Cap/Throttle = Win

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple can't stand data caps and throttling for their shiny phone. Sprint is maybe the last carrier to not have those. Therefore, it's the best option. That's why Apple is kind to this idea. Remember AT&T dumping their unlimited iPhone plan and everyone being so furious? Verizon throttles their top data users, IE their biggest customers now. This is the result. Sprint is killing IDEN and moving to LTE gradually, so there will be much less overhead during a move like this without having to run the costly and archaic IDEN network anymore. Honestly it makes sense and is ultimately a good idea for both companies. People may be less likely to move over immediately because of contracts, but leaving any blind allegiance to corporations that could care less about them, they will definitely take note of the fact that unlimited is still a real thing at Sprint.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

You're beginning to sound like a broken record my friend. Do you have anything else to say (save the things you've already said)?

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Hmmm. This is interesting. Is your sole purpose to waste my time? I'm genuinely wondering.

Re:Math

[Anonymous Coward]

MichaelKristopeit[0-9]{3} = stagnated

Completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

So, you have 500 accounts on slashdot and cannot get out of your time loop. I'll say you are a robot. You're definitely not smart enough to be a human.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Hmmm. Let's see. Boooo !!!!

Scared?

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Hmmm. It doesn't look like we're going anywhere.

You're sweet.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Huuu, "we" is you and I. I assume that MichaelKristopeit### (where ### is a number) is all the same user. Given the consistency your responses so far, I think it is a safe bet.

A few questions now:
1. I claimed to be nothing? Care to point out which post of mine said that?
2. Are the two last sentences supposed to be some kind of sig?
3. Funny as you didn't mention my mum's face this time. Getting tired already? Come on, we're just getting started. Don't let me down so soon.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Why?

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I guess slashdot has been hacked then. I'm not going to bother answering all your posts though.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I'll do just that. Thanks.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

No! My mom's face hasn't been hacked at all! I assure you.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, ok, I got it!

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ah. I could have sworn I got it though. It's probably me being this "idiot" you're referring to.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

You sir have mastered the copy/paste. I think it is now time to master your refraining of its use.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I was just trying to give you an advice you know, that's all. I was not trying to dictate anything to anyone.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Wow. There's stupid, and then there's you. That's something of an achievement actually.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Thanks, I got it this time!

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Nono, I assure you, I did!

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Obviously I have since I predicted exactly your post when I posted mine. There! Eat that! :)

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Again! I've done it again! I completely own you dude!

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I'm telling you dude... Don't fight it, just let it go.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Come on now, I told you I got it. Drop the fight, you've lost already.

And yes, I know, my mum's face has already lost.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

you're responding to me, monkey... you're an ignorant hypocrite.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

You too. Just more.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Learning copy/paste as we speak. Not at your level quite yet, but learning.

ur mum's face is just more too.
you're an idiot and an ignorant hypocrite.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Dear Michael,

you're an ignorant hypocrite yourself.

Regards.

---------
Isn't it more pleasant to read really? Three words... The power of these, just imagine !

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

ok, thanks.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Of course. But seeing how yo u like conversation with me, y ou have to be an equally idiotic being.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

If you don't like it, why are you still there responding to my posts?

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

you're responding to me, moron.

you're a presumptuous idiot and an ignorant hypocrite.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock base pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

you're responding to me, moron.

It looks like you're also responding to me though

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

the first words were mine. the idiotic words were yours.

you're an idiot.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, you were first. Big deal. You're still responding to me though. Do you have a problem letting go?

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

you're an ignorant hypocrite.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I think you already mentionned this.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

i have never mentionned anything, because mentionned is not a word.

you're an idiot.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Go ahead, grammar nazi.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

you don't even understand what grammar is... grammar is the application of real words.

you're an idiot.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

So you don't know the expression "grammar nazi". Fine. With the time you spend on this website, one could think you were aware of it.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

you're a presumptuous moron.

grammar nazi applies to acts relating to grammar. using words that don't exist is not an act of grammar... it's an act of idiocy.

you're an idiot.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Fine. You win.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

you're an idiot.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

repeating yourself there.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

begging repetition there.

you're an idiot.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Yup. You're an idiot.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

ur mum's face're an idiot.

you're an ignorant hypocrite.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

But if I'm all those things, why keeping up with me? Doesn't that make you pathetic, hypocrite, idiotic and a feeb ?

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

you're an idiot.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

you're an idiot.

Re:Math

[MichaelKristopeit348]

ur mum's face're an idiot.

you're an ignorant hypocrite.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

ur mum's face're an idiot.
you're an ignorant hypocrite.

cower in my shadow some more behind your chosen air dock based pseudonym, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

my name is michael kristopeit. i have not chosen to cower. i do not hide in fear as you choose to do.
you're an idiot, a liar, and an ignorant hypocrite.

you're a narcissistic, and when at a lose for words you attempt to reiterate the words of others, as a child would.

you're less than completely pathetic.

you're exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

So I am the big troll? Funny...

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ah ah ah ah ah !!!!! Nothing to be said about it: you're a serious piece of work.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I present myself to you. I admit what I've done. Which is not what you say I've done, but whatever. Waiting for the punishment.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok! I surrender !!! ;-)

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Nice pic on Google+ by the way.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Stop bulshitting yourself. Nobody's listening.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, enough trolling now. I have a few questions:

1. Why do you keep repeating the same things over and over again?
2. What do you want with me?
3. Why do you keep posting the same things to everyone on every story?
4. Why do you troll slashdot ?
5. Why do you have more than one account if it is to post the same things over and over?

See? I can also post things that make sense.

Now, let's see if you have some answers and if you are also able to post something comprehensive.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok. I didn't get through. You're quite thicker than I expected.

Why don't you want to have a discussion? I mean, a sound one, without copy paste of "firearms", "transgressions" and "cowering in your shadow"?

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Since you qualify me as a felon, would you care to tell us:

- what felony I might have committed? Keep in mind that copy/pasting a post on an obscure online forum is far from being an identity theft.
- How am I more an identity thieve than MichaelKristopeit415? I don't see you insulting him.
- How am I supposed to know which of the MichaelKristopeit* accounts is the real michael kristopeit?
- How does the fact of having committed a felony (in case we agree that I have) makes me a criminal? No crime has been committed and identity theft is not a crime.
- How does copy/pasting the same post over and over again (for me to see, nobody else is reading this thread) help you in any way?

Since you are accusing me of being a felon, I suggest we first assess my felony.

What do you think?

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

So, we have asserted that I committed no felony, since you don't want to name one.

It's just about trolling then. Let's troll. But don't complain.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ah, but I didn't do identity theft. Where did you see me doing this?

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

ok

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Hey! That's me !

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Nobody's listening.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Here is the sound of the echo:

identity theft is a felony.
the individual responsible for the "Pieroxy" account is a criminal.

they have attempted to steal my identity. i am michael kristopeit. i live at 4513 brittany ct. eau claire, wi. 54701. i live there in the house i paid cash for with my wife and children and dogs and numerous firearms.

to the individual responsible: present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i'll bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.
----
And remember, it's just the sound of the echo (cause there's noone in there). Not me impersonating you.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

When you look at yourself in the mirror, do the mirror takes the responsibility of your face in case you find something objectionable to it? Looks like you're missing something there.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, I will.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, I will.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, I will.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok , I will

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

ok, then I will not.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

Ok, I will then.

Re:Math

[Pieroxy]

I'm confused now. Should i or shouldn't I?