Slashdot Mirror
Actress Sues IMDb For Revealing Her Age
Alain Williams writes "An actress has sued Amazon.com for more than $1m (£639,000) after her age was posted on its Internet Movie Database. She says revealing her age on the site will lose her acting opportunities. From the article: 'The lawsuit states: "If one is perceived to be 'over-the-hill,' i.e., approaching 40, it is nearly impossible for an up-and-coming actress, such as the plaintiff, to get work as she is thought to have less of an 'upside,' therefore, casting directors, producers, directors, agents-manager, etc. do not give her the same opportunities, regardless of her appearance or talent."' So is her career dependent on lies?"
Seriously Slashdot, it'd be cool if you outed her.
That's the same reason I was forced out of pr0n. They couldn't believe the stamina this 45 year old had. Kept breaking the women.
Trolling is a art,
Step 1. Someone figures out who the acress is.
Step 2. A quick lesson in the "Streisand Effect".
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I don't think it is based on Lies just not revealing information. In a normal interview it is illegal to ask an applicant's age. The movie industry is probably different, but I would imagine that asking somebody's age during an audition would also be Illegal.
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
Well I wasn't going to hire her because she's getting old, but now that I have seen the ease with which she sues people, she's on the top of my list!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
how old is she? No, wait, don't post here, or we'll get Slashdot sued!
Given that acting involves portraying emotions and actions that are by definition not real, I would say yes.
Addressing the larger point, it's hard to argue against wanting to maintain control over one's personal information. Very hard.
I think she just guaranteed that a piece of data that nobody looked at is about to be scrutinized by many. Her 'Jane Doe' status can't last for long...
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
From the article she won't provide a name but she is from Texas, of Asian descent, has an Americanized name, and is approaching 40. Any ideas?
Time to offend someone
Or she could just be a shitty actress.
Despite attempting to remain anonymous, this is the best way to ensure information about this person's age gets widespread media attention.
From other sources, (last nights local news I believe), she is of Asian heritage and lives in Texas.... so maybe.
I wouldn't say her jobs is based on lies, just the industry.
Acting is a profession that is very public.
Even if IMDB didn't list her age, that wouldn't stop Wikipedia, or a fan, or former schoolmate from posting that information on the Internet and having it forever shared with the collective knowledge-base of the world.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Nope, not Maggie. Maybe Asia Carrera :-)
IMDB has become so hideously ugly and poorly designed that no one will notice anyway.
Like usual, it looks like this is a little more complicated than it looks at first. It seems they only got her real DOB when she entered it while signing up for an account; I would guess that they might not have made clear that any information entered in the account creation process became public. So, maybe a leg to stand on in that respect - but very hard to believe she will get far claiming that her DOB should not be printed if she doesn't want it to be.
"If one is perceived to be 'over-the-hill,' i.e., approaching 40, it is nearly impossible for an up-and-coming actress, such as the plaintiff, to get work as she is thought to have less of an 'upside,' therefore, casting directors, producers, directors, agents-manager, etc. do not give her the same opportunities, regardless of her appearance or talent."
I'm pretty sure this statement only applies to the porn industry, which will narrow down the guesswork by a lot.
Should she not be suing the studios for age discrimination instead? That (if anyone) is who is truly hurting her career.
You'd think that listing a shitty role, in a shitty B movie would degrade your ability to land a future job more so then your age. Sorry, you're old as fuck .. not for this Earth, just for this role VS Sorry, you just plain suck.
-- Brought to you by Carl's JR
another case of Job Security through Obscurity.
No, just withheld information.
Meryl Streep, Julianne Moore, Demi Moore, Susan Sarandon, all still working and I could easily go on. Hell, even Cloris Leachman still gets roles. Being over the hill has absolutely nothing to do with casting.
Unless this unnamed actress is involved in the "adult film industry," I don't think she has a point.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
I'm gonna sue IMDB for not posting any of my info, making it impossible for me to get any jobs!
Maggie Q?
According to imdb Maggie Q was born in 1979; happens to be the year I was born in and my age is no where near 40. Calling withholding her age a lie is a bit harsh, especially when whoever she is works in a profession where perception is everything.
All careers in Hollywood are based on lies. Having myself attempted to break into commercial voice acting, it was often a question as to whether you (as a voice actor) should include your mugshot. The specialty of the woman who taught my classes was the "teenage girl" part. Why not use an actual teenage girl? Because she was a much better actor in her 40's and 50's, yet can still sound like a teenager. Is it a lie for her to audition for teenager parts? Would she have gotten the audition (just the chance to tryout for the part) if she included a picture of herself as a 40-year-old?
Keep in mind that Bart Simpson wouldn't have the voice he does if Nancy Cartwright hadn't come in to audition for Lisa's part. Does that make Bart's voice a lie?
From a certain point of view... ;)
Every woman actor I know has been advised to reduce her stated age by at least 3 years. The presumption is that everyone will assume the age is a lie so if you tell the truth you put yourself at a disadvantage.
Not Asia Carrera, too smart.
The question is: Who is she?
The over/under betting is: How long before we find out? (There are a lot of clues to narrow this down.)
But also: Is her contention correct that this is how her BD found its way onto IMDB? She acts like there is no other possible way, but that's hardly a certainty. I'm guessing that this is like that Skanks of New York website where the lawsuit is intended to discover who actually posted it by forcing IMDB to defend itself by revealing the IP address and account information of the actual poster in their defense. In this way the Plaintiff gets access to information that she is not truly entitled to receive legally otherwise -- much like RIAA/MPAA mass subpena lawsuits that are dismissed the moment that subscriber information is matched to dubious IP numbers. In fact, I'll go so far as to opine that the Plaintiff already knows that IMDB didn't do what she preposterously alleges, and is only misusing the court system to uncover the actual person involved in order to punish them for telling the truth about her.
Last question: Will she profit from all this publicity? Probably yes in the short term.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Isn't that the case with most professions? As long as you can preserve the perception that YOU aren't the screw-up | problem | at fault, you can lever that perception into a series of promotions over you co-workers dead bodies.
Then jump to another company and lather, rinse, repeat ...
The existence of the Peter Principle would argue in favour of this.
I do not think she has a leg to stand on. If the information is public and IMDb tracks actors, then I imagine it is within their rights to post what is in the public domain.
we don't expect ageism (although we find it in our tech field); but in the visual entertainment field, OF COURSE you are going to be judged on looks. age is part of that.
people who enter this field usually have a clue that they have a short window while they're 'golden'. hey, YOU picked your career and probably made good coin 'in your day'. did you make the best of it while you could? how long did you think you could milk that cow, anyway?
I just have no sympathy for movie or music 'stars'. none at all, sorry.
lets talk about ageism for engineers. THAT hits home and is fundamentally wrong. but taking a job based on what you look like - you should have known better, lady!
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Yes you can shout "Streisand" and make fun of the futile effort all you want, but she should be allowed control of her own privacy even if she's going about it the wrong way.
Really? First Amendment right out the window, huh? Forget slander and libel, you can't even publish the TRUTH if someone perceives it as damaging?
Should be great for those in politics. When your opponent points out something you said or did, which will just slaughter you at the polls, just go ahead and sue him for damaging your career.
I'd bet that "up and coming" really means "She's never had even a decent supporting role in any film that more than 1000 people have paid to watch, but we're sure she's about to break through to the big time any day now". I'm sure she'll eventually be identified and I also bet that when we find out who she is, everyone is going to say "Never heard of her".
FUCK HER. If her birthdate was not public then it would never have been posted on her profile in IMDB.
Not to mention, all it would take is a couple of phone calls by a director to find out her age.
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
Sounds like she is just the right age to start playing a late 20's character on TV. That's how it works right?
The article mentioned that she is an up-and-coming actress. Sounds to me like a waitress who is an actress wannabe looking to 1) get attention, and possibly 2) sustain herself financially while she devotes herself to her "art" (i.e. she hates being a waitress and is looking for a relatively easy payday). It's probably not someone we've ever heard of, almost certainly not someone who would meet the notability threshold of Wikipedia.
That having been said, though, it does seem to be a pretty gross violation of privacy to me for IMDb to publish someone's birth date based only on information they submitted, a date that they didn't get from some other public source. It may not be a big deal to you or me, but that doesn't matter. It's private data, and it should have been held in confidence.
So is her career dependent on lies?
isn't yours?
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
First, the assumption that everyone in entertainment is a multimillionaire is just plain stupid, and you should be embarrassed for thinking that. Believe it or not, there are people who act for a living who make less than the average plumber. (And lacking skills in plumbing, can't afford to change to that career.) It's only the top-billed actors and actresses who can pull in that kind of money. Most of the bit part actors and people who'se names you don't recognize don't actually make that much.
Second, the famous actors don't have to worry about their ages being public, since they get roles and auditions based on being famous. They're already _in_ the door, so they don't have to care. The point Jane Doe is making is that as a less known actress, she doesn't have that advantage (or that money), so she needs the illusion of being younger.
Of course, it's still stupid, and hopefully will backfire horribly on her.
Betty White. Ok we can toss that stupid court case.
Why hide her age? Maybe she was hoping to appear on Glee along with all of the other 20-somethings there.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
"Is her career dependent on lies?"
You do understand the nature of acting right?
"So is her career dependent on lies ?"
Isn't this true of sales people? Especially software vendors?
The principle that we each should be in charge of the release of our personal information is a protection for you and me as well as for aging actresses.
As for determining which information about someone is "trivial," I suggest not outsourcing that either.
I don't think that working in the public eye should necessarily cost you all your privacy, even on straightforward things like this.
Also, with acting, there may not be enough roles _for_ older actresses. That's likely also an issue, but a different one.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
I wanted to be angry about this. I even had a post written up about how the judge had better eviscerate this woman and her lawyer for such a stupid lawsuit. Then I went against all Slashdot policies and read the article. It is not quite what we think.
She is definitely mad about her age being disclosed, and that is probably the basis for the damage amount -- but her actual claims are about how they got her age. She is claiming that they got her birthdate from a subscription to IMDBPro and is claiming breach of contract and invasion of privacy.
I am not commenting on the merits of that claim, by the way, but it is certainly different than "somebody disclosed a fact about me, sue them!" Much as it pains me, perhaps the calls for evisceration have to be put temporarily on hold. Meh. I guess I have to find a patent story and call for evisceration there instead.
It's Nicole Bilderback.
Eat more bacon!
Can legislate audiences' sexual interest. Old actresses simply can't get the job done.
They don't include most musical info. They don't list the songs (and artists) used in a tv show or movie.. If there is an original song or score, I can drill down the cast & crew and find the musical contributors but even that's not certain. Seems to me if the info is in the credits, it ought to be in the Internet Movie Database. Besides, unless Jeff bought IMDb simply because he loves the movies, Amazon is missing an opportunity to cross-sell music. Also on new tv episodes the episode cast is often incomplete. But on older episodes it's usually complete so perhaps there is some latentcy in getting the data. Anyway, I guess I get more than what I pay for it, and it does have a pretty nice iPad app.
She'll get a much better payday (but perhaps much poorer acting opportunities) if she files a suit against the entire casting industry for widespread age discrimination.
Nope, not Maggie. Maybe Asia Carrera :-)
Looked at her Wikipedia page, she posts her own birthday on her own website. So, not her.
WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
Isn't that the case with most professions? As long as you can preserve the perception that YOU aren't the screw-up | problem | at fault, you can lever that perception into a series of promotions over you co-workers dead bodies.
But the difference is that in this particular case you are the screw-up | problem | at fault if you're nearing 40, perception over and out.
#1) if she's "approaching 40" but still considered "up and coming" my guess is she ain't going too far regardless of the age report
#2) all actors' careers are dependent on lies
#3) front page? slashdot? really?
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
The principle that we each should be in charge of the release of our personal information is a protection for you and me as well as for aging actresses.
As for determining which information about someone is "trivial," I suggest not outsourcing that either.
Is there a helpdesk?
It's not how old you are, it's how old you look. The actual age is pretty unimportant. I'm curious how anyone can define this as "quite damaging". I guess we'll find out, since she'll have to actually show damages if this ever goes anywhere.
The BBC article is light on the details to the point of distorting the issue. There's a better write-up at Paid Content, which also has a link to the complaint. It's not just about ageism; the Jane Doe alleges that IMDb pulled her birthdate from her credit-card information and then published it, ignoring takedown requests.
No statement is true, not even this one.
If you don't have a proper legal argument, it's going to be summarily dismissed with prejudice and she'll have to pay their legal fees.
Liberty.
"The actress - referred to in court documents by the placeholder name Jane Doe - lives in Texas, is of Asian descent and has an Americanised stage name."
Lucy Liu perhaps though she is already 40+ - She is shown on IMDB as DOB 2/12/1968 making her 43 I think. I cant think of any other actresses matching that so she must not be that much of a "well-known" big name star. Perhaps a wannabe big name star who is on the way out and is desperately holding on to the hope someone will hire her.
No surprise on the Texan origin though. That state must be one big court house! I wonder what the golden girls would think of this case. I know they are still getting gigs and they are like almost 100 years old. And what about the girls from Sex and the City?? They must be claiming senior discount by now!
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
Because if IMDB was able to find this lady's age, surely there are many other sources on the Internet able to do the same thing. Does that mean she's going to sue every single source out there that happens to list her accurate information?
Loading...
It's Nicole Bilderback, born June 10, 1975
Obvious publicity stunt.
He definitely was too old. Thank gawd there was no IMDb for him or he may not have landed his role in 90210.
I read this article yesterday and if I understand correctly, the problem isn't that her age was revealed, but that the personal information she used when signing up for the site was used to get that information. If true, this seems to be a complete misuse of her personal information. I think ultimately, Amazon will have to provide evidence that they obtained this information from another source or convince the judge that it was within their rights according to the site's user agreement to use the information in this manner.
Wow, trolling in the summary?
So what exactly stops all the other employers out there from just classifying their employees as "contractors" and thereby ignore the entire labyrinthine system of employment law?
Because there are laws which determine whether a contractor is de-facto an employee regardless of what the employer chooses to call them. There are a set of criteria which are easy to find which are used by regulatory agencies including the IRS. Microsoft actually lost a class action lawsuit a few years back for trying to classify a large percentage of their work force as contractors when they were effectively full time employees in every meaningful respect otherwise. Cost Microsoft quite a bit of money in back pay and benefits as I recall.
you can't even publish the TRUTH if someone perceives it as damaging?
So goes copyright (though this particular issue has nothing to do with copyright). So yes, there is a basis in law for preventing people from sharing information when not "allowed" no matter how truthful it is. Though this could be considered a "trade secret" depending on the legal status of birth certificates (as where they are "public records" it could never be considered a trade secret, though most places now will only release a birth certificate to the "owner" of it - as a means to fight identity theft, making them non-public).
Learn to love Alaska
That just proves his point even better.
Wouldn't she have to fill out her actual age on her I-9 and employment papers to begin with? I mean for her to legally get paid for acting she has to give her real age.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
Nicole Bilderback meets the known criteria. Asian ethnicity with American/European name, lives in Texas, age 38, various minor parts in TV & movies. If it's her, then her publicity agent probably put her up to it in a last gasp attempt to avoid remaining just another bit part player...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Yes, it would also certainly make sense that a nobody would be trying to sue in the first place. She should be flattered that she was posted on imdb in the first place, as there are many less known actors that don't even have a picture of themselves up.
The article barely touches on the real problem here - she paid for an "IMDb Pro" account and Amazon used that info to pull an "above the line" credit report on her. These "above the line" reports contain: name, mother's maiden name, date of birth, sex, address, prior addresses, telephone number, and the Social Security Number and have no legal protection. That's where they got her age from.
So she basically paid Amazon and they used the billing information for purposes other than which she intended. That's the kind of shit that makes me never want to pay for anything on the net - and only use cash in real life too.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Really? First Amendment right out the window, huh? Forget slander and libel, you can't even publish the TRUTH if someone perceives it as damaging?
The First Amendment is tempered by the right to privacy. If your bank publishes your account numbers, home address and phone number, Social Security number, and mother's maiden name, and as a result you suffer identity theft and financial damages, does it make a difference that all of the information that your bank published was TRUE?
No.
Certain information is public. Your birthday is not, unless you volunteer it or it gets scooped somehow, most likely due to a breach of privacy. If the actress doesn't want personal information that she submitted to IMDb in the course of a business relationship to be published, she should have that right.
You're joking right? Why is this news for nerds. I could care less if some over the hill drama queen is suing Amazon for posting her age. Per the submission, all of hollywood is built on lies.
"We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
Pretty sure this has to be the IMDb page in question...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000659/
G.
If she didn't want her age to be publicized, then perhaps she shouldn't have made a stink about it. I know more about her now than I did when her information was just on imdb.
Age is a matter of public record, a birthdate is recorded on a birth certificate. So she doesn't have a leg to stand on there.
That IMDBPro revealed it could easily be a breach of contract, but I doubt that will go anywhere.
Depends. Something people don't understand is that to run a country, you need to plan. To plan, you need certain information. So some information is critical for a society to change.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Sounds like her career depended on a secret rather than a lie. Those are not the same thing.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
the lawsuit says IMDB changed her DoB in 2008. :)
Comparing Bai Ling's bio in Oct 2007 with Dec 2008, you can see that all that changes is her DoB suddenly goes back four years.
Gotta love the archive
Based on pretending to be something she's not. Welcome to acting, that's the point.
Tom Cruise is a porn actor?
That depends on whether you think Eyes Wide Shut qualifies as a porno.
FTA: "The actress - referred to in court documents by the placeholder name Jane Doe - lives in Texas, is of Asian descent and has an Americanised stage name...approaching 40"
1. All I could think of was comedian Margaret Cho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Cho , who just turned 43. (ie. slightly lying about age for the sake of posterity?"
2. She performed in Texas, dunno if she lives there.
3. That's her stage name, her birth name was "Moran Cho".
4. And she has no good movies, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0158632/ . So maybe she considers doing all B movies "up and coming". Her pics try to make her look like a hot 20 year old. Ah, the joys of Photoshop and lawyers.
I8-D
If your bank publishes your account numbers, home address and phone number, Social Security number, and mother's maiden name, and as a result you suffer identity theft and financial damages, does it make a difference that all of the information that your bank published was TRUE?
What matters is whether the bank had a contractual obligation not to divulge the information. These problems can all be solved quite easily by drafting, reading, and adhering to appropriate legal agreements. Fuck yes the bank can publish that if it wants to, unless the bank and I have agreed that they won't. (The law may differ from what I just said, but IMHO that's how it SHOULD work.)
Expecting that people "just won't" do certain things is expecting too much.
If the actress doesn't want personal information that she submitted to IMDb in the course of a business relationship to be published, she should have that right.
Did she specify? Was there a TOS? Did she read it? If her age is sensitive information why is she giving it out?
No, they took the information (which included her real, non-fake, non-screen name)... and once they had her real name, they did a public records search.
Whether or not the fact that her screen name was not her real name should have been considered confidential, or whether her real name should have been confidential, is less black-and-white.
She'll have plenty of opportunities to play the old hag on the soap operas! Oh! That's right! I went there!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Never had her DOB listed in IMDb, though - not according to the Internet Archive.
Probably lied about her age, too... not like that'd be unusual. But she can't be the Jane Doe.
Internet Archive doesn't show that IMDb has ever revealed her DOB though.
Frankly, the actress in question knows she's probably already toast, hence the lawsuit to recover lost potential wages. But, it doesn't take much effort to at least try to limit the damage in the meantime. I'm guessing this is mainly an attempt to limit pollution of any potential jury pool.
Regarding the quip in the /. abstract: "So is her career dependent on lies?"... yes, yes it is. A woman lying about her age (unless under majority) is by far one of the least of the lies told in show business. To even ask the question settles any dispute regarding @Alain Williams' gender.
Luke, help me take this mask off
The parent is referring to actresses who established themselves in their early twenties. Most established actresses fade quickly as they approach 40. Only the creme de la creme have a shot at anything other than mother-of-the-bride rolls after that. Male actors are still marketable throughout their forties.
Luke, help me take this mask off
DOB may be in the public record from public institutions in various US jurisdictions, but that doesn't give anyone who receives that information by some other means carte blache to broadcast it. Having a county registrar provide fact X != IMDB providing fact X.
What I'd be interested in someone else digging up is exactly what IMDB's published policy is. It seems IMDB is now making it clear that they publish indentifying information from any source. I suspect that will affect the number of actors signing up for IMDB Pro, or at least cause them to seek out other payment options. I see the possibility of a niche business opening.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Birth records are public record anyway, and there are tons of dead tree books that list 'famous people' and their short bio, including date of birth.
IMDb just makes it easier to find the info. It doesn't produce the original. I say they counter sue her for 2x.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The W-9 form merely looks to match a name with a tax ID. DOB isn't a must-answer question. In fact, given anti-age discrimination statues in the US, it's really more of a "can't ask"... not that it stops prime contractors from asking. Since they aren't in a position to ask, independent contractors (eg. actors) aren't required to tell the truth.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Certain information is public. Your birthday is not...
How is it not? Birth records are public. It might require a bit of poking about to find where to look, but if you can find the information in public records I would say that it fits the very definition of "public information".
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
And that's pretty much the heart of what this story is really about. It's centered around how they got a hold of such information and thus published without her consent.
Barbra Streisand effect much?
...I would avoid hiring anyone known to sue other people for something so trivial. Makes you wonder what they might find to sue you for.
paintball
The principle that we each should be in charge of the release of our personal information is a protection for you and me as well as for aging actresses.
What about politicians? Shouldn't an investigative reporter be allowed to muck around all they want? I would think there are some limits to privacy depending on the situation.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I suggest she quit blaming other people and follow the Steve Martin Method.
I would think that acting would be the one profession where pretty much anything goes. They need actors that are 6 months old and they need actors who are in their 80's. It all depends on the part, and if the part calls for a mid-40s character, they're generally going to cast mid-40s actors, or at least try. Of course, if she's trying to get acting gigs as a high school student, then I can see how that might be a turnoff.
It has nothing to do with her age. The lack of opportunities for any "up and coming" actress will be due to an enormous amount of competition. In the end, having the "right look", the talent to get it right on the first try, and awesome networking skills will be more valuable than any hangups about your age.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Well, what about going after those that obviously discriminate her rather than shooting the messenger?