Slashdot Mirror
Technical Glitch Lets Reporters Eavesdrop On Obama, Sarkozy
Hugh Pickens writes "BBC reports that a technical glitch allowed reporters to listen in on a private conversation between French President Nicolas Sarkozy and US President Barack Obama, made in a backroom meeting at the G20 summit, treating listeners to a rare insight into the importance of personal relationships in international politics. 'I can't stand him any more,' said Mr. Sarkozy of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. 'He's a liar.' Mr. Obama replied: 'You're sick of him. I have to deal with him every day!' According to Reuters, the two presidents were apparently 'unaware that the microphones in their meeting room had been switched on, enabling reporters in a separate location to listen in to a simultaneous translation.' The reporters made 'a group decision... not to report the conversation as it was considered private and off-the-record,' but Arrets Sur Images, a French website that covers current affairs, got wind of the exchange and broke the story."
2 people agree the another is an ass. What is the news?
Fox News will have a fair and balanced field day with this.
... or espionage?
Journalism becomes espionage when leaders expect privacy and technology is applied to eavesdrop.
In the movie, he was on a panel of some press conference and after he spoke, he forgot to take off his wireless microphone and headed off the mensroom whereby the sounds of his visit were broadcast over the PA system.
The scene
It's safe for work.
You *really* wouldn't want to see how the sausage is made my friend. Politics, specifically foreign policy, is a dirty that sometimes needs to be done in private.
None of what these people do should be secret. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere without a number of cameras and microphones on them always and everything should always be transmitted out to the public.
If it's all the same to you I'd like to skip some parts... like for example their trips to the toilet.
Was this a glitch or was this done on purpose, by the way?
Also this shows the insanity - Obama says Netanyahu is a liar (as if Obama or Sarcozy are not liars), and all of these liars are up there, dealing the cards of nations.
Do you trust any of these people? If you do - you are insane.
Obama will start a war with Iran. Any other candidate will except for two: Ron Paul (and Gary Johnson probably wouldn't either).
It's tiring that all these liars are on top and making all these decisions for nations and economies, etc. Take the power back from them.
You can't handle the truth.
soon will lose its access to major credit cards right?
No, everything has to be in public. It should be their 'sacrifice' - no privacy while in office.
You can't handle the truth.
Oh come on, you know you would like to see Carla Bruni-Sarkozy use the toilet...
I wholeheartedly agree. In theory.
In practice, getting things done is probably incompatible with continuously being on the air.
I think people are tired of constantly getting the sausage. They should stop eating it.
You can't handle the truth.
It's just not polite to say it. Just last night they did this bit on House where the guy goes through a litany of truths about the guys fantasizing about having sex with the hot female doctor. Everybody knows it. It's just not polite to say it. Blah, blah, blah.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I was speaking metaphorically, but at least I used my own words. You are borrowing yours and they don't even fit the here.
You can't handle the truth.
There is a huge difference between being anti semetic and being anti zionist. The Palestinians being ethnically cleansed by Israel are also semetic. Sarkozy was not wrong (in this case).
Surely, this is OK. They had nothing to hide and their conversation was taking place in a public place*, so all's fair.
Definition of "public place" tortured to extend to publically owned buildings as well as places where the public might be allowed.
President Obama should be fine with it, he does support warrantless wiretapping, that's essentially what heppend here.
I hope you realise that any such toilet exception would lead to the bulk of the G20 summit being conducted in the mens toilets. Leaving Germany, Brazil, Argentina and Australia to strike up a bizarre alliance in the women's toilet.
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
Hmm.
I think it's possible to dislike their PM without wanting them destroyed. I disliked Bush, but it didn't make me unamerican.
Moreover, this is two politicians talking. Why do we assume that they were being honest with each other?
Ethnically cleansed my ass. They're jordanian, with a mix of egyptian and syrian.
Om, nomnomnom...
We're only pretending to support them, but antisemitism is rising and we have a president who thinks his life would be a lot easier if Israel didn't exist. Guess our loyalty doesn't run very deep.
Were you operating on the misconception that our 'loyalty' to any of our allies is particularly deep(or that of any of our allies to us)?
I actually did exactly that to an actor once at my community college, opps.
It's very easy to forget to mute a channel on an audio mixer when you often have dozens of them.
Fox news has made hardly any mention of it.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Would you prefer the thought of George HW and Barbara Bush in the throes of passion?
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
umad? looking up someone's comment history because you ran out of argument here and now?
NO, they are not treating people they are supposed to be serving with any dignity.
It's time to return the favor.
You can't handle the truth.
What with all the complexities of statecraft, isn't it possible this was no accident? Perhaps it was meant as a bid to get Netanyahu's attention and subtly express French and US government positions on the Israel/Palestine question. Food for thought.
The Israeli government is not losing support because they are Jews. They are losing support because of their actions.
We have a President who thinks his life would be a lot easier if the Israeli government would stop pissing off the international community with shit like the settlements. Then he wouldn't have to tell his ambassadors to exercise their Security Council veto every time the Israeli government engages in an international faux pas.
Regarding your last point, however, I'm inclined to agree. Look at how quickly the US turned on Gaddafi. Our loyalty does not run deep at all. Not that we should have had any loyalty with Gaddafi to begin with...
:(){
None of what these people do should be secret. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere without a number of cameras and microphones on them always and everything should always be transmitted out to the public.
It becomes impossible to have effective negotiations if each side must worry about how every sentence will sound to their constituencies. Americans would have flipped had they known that Kennedy agreed to remove some obsolete missile installations in Italy and Turkey to resolve the Cuban Missile Crisis, yet by doing so he avoided the very real possibility of nuclear holocaust. Just a thought...
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
No, Obama does not speak to him every day.
Do you know what "hyperbole" is? Do you know that "deal with" is not equivalent to "speak with"? Do you know that the Congress is the primary internal-facing Federal body in the US? Do you know that the President is the primary external-facing power in the US? Do you realize that foreign policy IS an affair of the US? Do you believe everything you read in a Slashdot summary, or for that matter, on the Internet at all?
I don't think you really understand how the presidency operates at all. Or journalists, or politics, or...
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Ill help you end the world.
Does anybody have any mental floss?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Diplomacy often requires tact, but just as often requires that a measure of privacy be afforded for negotiations. Can you imagine attempting to negotiate changes to your mortgage on the sidewalk? Can you imagine negotiating some difficult decision with your spouse in front of your entire extended family?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Americans would have flipped?
Americans would get their chance every 4 years anyway, but during the 4 year period (and we are talking about POTUS and his 4 years, but this should apply to all members of government) everything would be open and on the record.
You can't handle the truth.
The people of that region yes used to be residents of the nations in question at one time. That doesn't change the fact that they are ethnically Semitic. Apparently you are under the wrong assumption that Semitic = Jewish. It doesn't, in general Semitic means a descendant of Abraham and Arabs (almost all Palestinians are of Arab descent) are descendants of Abraham.
Now it's true that if you killed every Palestinian you wouldn't have wiped out an entire ethnic group, but ethnic cleansing is by definition trying to remove an entire ethnic group from a region. Genocide is the compete elimination of an ethnic group and the OP didn't say Israel was engaged in genocide, but is in fact arguing Israels (unspoken) intent is to cleanse Israel and the occupied territories of non-Jewish Arab's, hence the correct term ethnic cleansing.
The OP is also correct in that being anti-zionism is not Anti-Semitic because Palestinians are Semitic as well. To be a true anti-semitic you need to hate both Jews and Arabs. Otherwise you just hate one specific group of the Semitic ethnic group.
I'm German with a mix of Swedish and Norewgian but damn if anybody is bulldozing my house because of something my brother did.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
"Do you know that the Congress is the primary internal-facing Federal body in the US? Do you know that the President is the primary external-facing power in the US?"
I did not know that. In fact, I think you just made that up right now to buttress your point. The Constitution gives the Congress plenty of power over foreign affairs. Likewise, the President has plenty of authority over domestic affairs.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
Oh crap, do you think there hasn't been any US President since Israel's foundation that hasn't probably muttered similar words? I'll wager it's pretty tame compared to what some Presidents have said.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Politics, specifically foreign policy, is a dirty that sometimes needs to be done in private.
That is exactly why politics should never be done in private.
If you need to do it in private you're doing something wrong.
Which is why I always masturbate on the bus.
The sad part is that Israel has the only rational leadership in the region, they also a flash point to Obama and Co. need to keep tabs on them and to try and keep nudging them one direction.
The problem is, Obama has never liked them and now its going to be real hard to play nice. Israel won't listen and it has been apparent early on that your only as good for the Administration as to your ability to listen and do what they think should be done. Its a classic textbook ignorance of reality, thinking that just because you say something it becomes something.
If anything it shows his true thinking which is wholly unprofessional to utter to another world leader. So much for being smart, I guess arrogance got in the way.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The answer to that is simple. The voting bloc Israel represents is huge. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy - in fact, I'm certain that there isn't - but politics is very us-vs-them and Obama has no interest in being one of "them". He wants strategic ambiguity and anything that could be deemed a slight or an insult would break that ambiguity.
Even in this case, he was reluctant to say anything overt. His brief statement had the air of plausible denial over its meaning. It may let him claim to both camps that he's on their side. That would be very much like Obama.
Remember, when he wants to be insulting, there's no question about it. Obama has very openly insulted the British on numerous occasions and has made it clear that he sees nothing special about the Anglo-American relationship. Indeed, such was his level of gross abuse on his various visits that it's safe to say Britain ranks about on-par with Pakistan at this point in his eyes. Usable but expendable, with Britain being the more expendable of the two right now.
The tactics used in this case were much more cleverly crafted, so Obama places a far greater value on Israel and its view of the world. Just as with Britain, though, it's not out of compassion or understanding, it's a calculation. It would not surprise me if this whole stunt was a calculation. But what was he calculating and who was the broadcast really aimed at?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
In the movie, he was on a panel of some press conference and after he spoke, he forgot to take off his wireless microphone and headed off the mensroom whereby the sounds of his visit were broadcast over the PA system.
The scene
It's safe for work.
And you've never seen (or heard) anyone on a mobile phone in the bathroom? I'm quite stunned every time I hear someone on their phone in there, like in airports or even at work.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Nobody forced them into that work.
If you spend your time saying "look at what i'm doing" then you only have yourself to blame when people do look.
Before Israel it was always Christians vs. everyone else. There is almost no historical tension between Muslims and Jews. The tensions are all the result of Israel's actions, not some ancient Islamic prejudice against Jews.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
The people of that region yes used to be residents of the nations in question at one time. That doesn't change the fact that they are ethnically Semitic. Apparently you are under the wrong assumption that Semitic = Jewish. It doesn't, in general Semitic means a descendant of Abraham and Arabs (almost all Palestinians are of Arab descent) are descendants of Abraham.
The assumption that one population replaces another is erroneous. What usually happens is that they merge. Genetic analysis shows that the Palestinian 'Arabs' of the Levant are actually to a large extent descended from Jewish ancestors who in turn probably got a large genetic contribution from Persia, the Hellenic world Africa and, especially during Roman times, from Western Euorpe. The Palestinians may not practice the Jewish religion but genetically they are quite Jewish. The genetic ancestry of most human groups, tribes, nations, etc. is way more complex than most people realize.
Oh you bunch of cry babies..."the one" said something off mic, and you libs get all bent out of shape saying not fair....I sure don't remember you crying your eyes out when Reagan's mic was on when he said "I've outlawed the USSR, the bombing begins in 10 minutes". You idiots cried that he's a war monger, his finger on the button bla bla bla...Get over it.
Why?
Oh this reason...
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Who has authority to make treaties and declare war? Who proposes healthcare plans and makes speeches about the economy?
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
In actual fact, Arabs and Jews are genetically the same people:
" What they revealed was that Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations (as shown in this figure)." http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html?m=1
Jewish is not an ethnicity. Semitic is the ethnicity Jews derive from. Arabs are also Semitic. I'm not even sure how you went off on this tangent, as you appear to be arguing that Jewish is a separate ethnicity, its not, it's a religion not ethnic origin. Jews and Arabs are from the same ethnic group, the only real difference between the groups is the religion, which has nothing to do with genetic ethnicity. Palestinians aren't ethnically Jewish because Jewish isn't an ethnicity.
That would be like saying anglo-saxons are ethnically Christian. It's nonsense. You appear to need to study what ethnicity is and how ethnic groups are divided. Let me give you a hint, it's not dictated by the religion they choose.
So you don't like attractive women? Not that there is anything wrong with that, but yeah, she's hot.
http://cheezburger.com/View/1977741056
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm no isolationist, but why does he have to talk to the president of Israel every day?
One word : Florida :)
--- Bouh !!! ---
There are elected presidents of two countries and not two buddies in the pub. What they are talking and what they decide, will shape the future not only of their countries, but of the world. It would be "private" if Obama or Sarkozy would talk to his wife or his children, but not if one official is talking to another official.
Such talks should not be private in any sense. Actually, everything our leaders talk and do should be recorded for public review.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
The President "proposes" health care plans and "talks" about the economy. The Congress however has the power of the purse. Yes congress can make treaties and declare war but the President then executes the war and the treaties alike. In fact, as Commander in Chief the President can carry on a war without Congressional approval. It may not be declared but he can blow hell out of someone while Congress is sleeping. The only real way for Congress to stop him is to either Impeach him or cut off funding until the military runs out of money and can no longer conduct operations. And there are lots of little nest eggs of Billions of dollars that are laying around for the President to tap into making it possible for him to carry on a war for some time. It may be political suicide but often if he can do it quickly and successfully with very little loss of life the American people will actually approve and Congress dare do nothing. Decisive Presidents earn respect. President Obama found this out when the raid into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden succeeded bring him praise even from some right wing pundits. A lot of people are still pissed about 9/11 and want somebody's ass for it. Right or wrong the Muslim extremists are viewed as responsible and generally loathed and Israel, in a enemy of my enemy kind of way is viewed mostly positively. While Europeans may see it differently they don't get to elect US politicians who have to answer to American voters.
Is it real news that Obama and the Frenchman don't like an Israeli? We haven't treated enemies as badly as Netanyahu was treated when he visited the White House.
Anyone else reminded of the episode of The West Wing where President Bartlet speaks candidly after an interview is supposedly over but the cameras are still rolling? In that fictional case his staff went apoplectic trying to put spin on how it was a mistake, etc., when in reality it was a calculated and savvy move where the President acted in full knowledge that the camera was still on.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Not exactly made up. From whitehouse.gov: "The Executive Branch conducts diplomacy with other nations, and the President has the power to negotiate and sign treaties, which also must be ratified by two-thirds of the Senate." No other official is the primary diplomat, though Clinton may right now appear so she is merely a proxy for the president.
I disliked Bush
You like him now?
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
what is a simultaneous translation? do these guys have realtime voice to voice translation software?? that really works?
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
The president also signs health care plans into law. If he didn't, no one would be that interested in what he thought the best plan would be. My point stands. We have a president and a Congress. They share power in foreign and domestic affairs. The president picks the Secretary of State, Secretary of Health and Human Services, the Secretary of Agriculture etc.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
I know a particular professor who did this teaching sophomore-level Java programming. Unfortunately, I was not at the lecture and heard about it later. All I'll say is that we're a big engineering school in a midwestern state.
What is the basis of these paranoid conspiracy theories? That flotillas of food want to come into Palestine and Israel won't let them? That is a sign that everyone wants to destroy is Israel? That people don't believe Israel should starve an entire people to death?
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
if you are a public official, you should be doing everything in public, but what are you doing on a bus?
Masturbating. Weren't you listening?
Not too many world leaders like Nitwityahoo but one must remember that Israel has the US by the nuts. It's their proxy war and financial machine which they have now almost wrecked beyond recognition.
Honestly, I thought that was his mother the first time I saw them together.
Being in shape doesn't cure ugly.
If you wanted a hot first lady, we should have elected Fred Thompson.
Despite the complexities of Jewish migrations during the diaspora, Jewish communities have generally not intermixed with non-Jewish populations. This gives Jews a distinct genetic identity. Palestinian Arabs in the Levant are more closely related to Jews than they are to many other peoples in some surrounding countries who have traditionally been labeled 'arabs'. Genetic science doesn't care about ethnic labels or religious groupings. It maps genetic relationships between human populations and some people find that uncomfortable.
MOVING GOAL POST DETECTED
I'm quite capable of seeing bias, thanks much; the point that you're not wanting to admit is that you were wrong about "other news organizations", and you're compounding it by stereotyping liberals.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
There's a good list of real life occurrences of this on tvtropes. Just scroll down and look for the Real Life section.
WARNING!!! This is a link to tvtropes.org. While there, don't click on any links to any other sections of tvtropes. Tvtropes is a trap! I say again, it is a trap! Start following links there, and next thing you know it will be a week from now and you'll have a thousand tabs open and still be reading. You have been warned!
Jews are ethnically Semitic, just like Arabs. Stop trying to argue the jewish religion is a fucking ethnic group, it's not and it's a god damned silly argument. I can't believe you are persisting in attempting to argue that a religion defines an ethnic group.
So what are the other ethnic groups according to you? Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Mormon and Lutheran to name a few?
Foreign policy sometimes needs to be done in private, so the other country doesn't get pissed/take advantage of you.
null
When he gained the presidency he got rid of the more pro-Arab foreign service hired by his predecessor. He bowed to all US desideratas he could get away with without angering the local populace too much. His early career in Neuilly was largely started through his good relations with the strong Lubavitch community there. He also happens to have Jewish ancestors.
In other words, yes, it's real news if you know the slightest thing about Sarkozy. Here's a hint, if you want to know things, Fox News is probably not the way to go.
Reminds me of Geo Bushwhacker II and his "Yo Blair!"
He picks cabinet members but Congress approves them.
So I take it you like me, going over all of my comments and all? Why don't you also read all of my journal entries while you are at it.
You can't handle the truth.
You might want to re-check your maps. Gaza is not part of Israel, they just have a blocade set up.
WARNING!!! This is a link to tvtropes.org. While there, don't click on any links to any other sections of tvtropes. Tvtropes is a trap! I say again, it is a trap! Start following links there, and next thing you know it will be a week from now and you'll have a thousand tabs open and still be reading. You have been warned
That just gave me a brilliant idea for a grease monkey script, it would disable all URLs on the page making it safe to visit.
Really? The standing ovation of Congress was bad treatment? The Congress applauds Netanyahu more than its own president.
While you're at it, you conveniently leave out Joe Biden's visit to Israel and what a slap in the face to the US that was!
You're either extremely ignorant, or extremely biased. The end result is the same.
The big question is, why is there a dislike of Netanyahu? Nothing happens without reason.
It's hard enough to find good people willing to put up with what it takes to be a politician as it is. I can only imagine the kind of freak shows we'd get if we started imposing those conditions.
Is 1563649 a prime number?
You say you're capable of seeing bias, but you won't admit other news organizations have it?
CBS defended itself and Rather over the Killian documents story, and even created news stories in its defense and had 60 minutes do a defense piece, until their attempted smear was too obvious for the public to ignore. Even worse, they had coordinated the story with the Kerry campaign prior to publication, and even then the most their "independent" review panel could admit to was the "appearance of a political bias."
Do you have an equivalent that Fox has done?
Had this happen during a 3-way phone call. They forgot they were still on the phone, had the phone in the pocket...
The web site that grew so large as to become self-aware, and then get an acting gig on NBC's community.
Let's be honest: all politicians lie. The question is who gets caught.
It started in the late 1800s, not 1917.
as it must be a cold day in hell that not only one, but two politicians actually spoke the truth.
The point I was actually making is that you can dislike and even hate the Zionist state of Israel without being anti-semetic. And in fact, the Zionist state of Israel is earning that dislike and hate very legitimately. They are ethnically cleansing their cousins the Palestinians. They break every promise made in the peace process and disregard international law on a whim. The only reason the US supports their tyranny is that a significant minority of the US voting public believes that a Jewish State centered on Jerusalem is a prerequisite for the apocalypse that they pray for.
Wilbur F. Storey tourne dans sa tombe...
I never said that other news orgs aren't biased. I'm saying that you're moving the goal posts to defend Fox ("everyone else is biased! Therefore it's OK that Fox is REALLY REALLY BIASED!").
In case you missed it, I can tell that you're politically motivated.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Simply they're all biased. It does help to remind those who think only Fox is biased. None of it is OK, it's just the way things are.
Well, there you go. I just showed where CBS coordinated a falsified attack story on Bush with the opposing Kerry campaign, directly attempting to influence a presidential election for the liberal candidate, and that's just "biased" to you. And that's what was labeled NEWS. It wasn't commentary or opinion.
One ABC news producer said about ABC, "The planning meetings have little political diversity. Everyone is left of center and at ease with their liberal ideals. The other viewpoint is rarely raised and never fully represented." I still find it funny that ABS's bio of their top (liberal, of course) journalist, Claire Shipman, fails to mention that her husband is Obama's press secretary. While Fox hires Dana Perino as a political commentator, Clinton insider George Stephanopoulos is portrayed by ABC as a straight journalist. This is just "biased" to you.
Yet Fox execs directing stories along their ideological lines is "REALLY REALLY BIASED". Political motivation on your part? Don't say!
If you're talking about the CBS fiasco you pretend didn't happen, I was never a Bush supporter. In fact, I agree with the general theme of the faked CBS story, that Bush did his best to get out of service during Vietnam using family connections. His supposed business career was equally deplorable.
Intersting how you miss the most relevant fact-that 15X the number of Palestinians have been killed by israel that vice versa. Israel is a nation formed, created and sustained on terrorist acts.
Anti-semitism is simply an excuse to invalidate criticsm of Israel, it is very good to see so many posters are finally seeing the true story of Israels many war crimes. To me it makes no difference if someone is killed by terrorists or an official army. Its clear Israel has killed 15X more Pals then vice cersa.
This is not a relevant fact. The relevant fact is that Palestinian terrorists are firing from densely populated areas so that the IDF will retaliate and kill as many civilians as possible, making the international community denounce Israel.
Israel has taken countless measures to prevent casualties among civilian population, dropping leaflets and sending text messages in order to warn citizens. What did Hamas do in that aspect?
Futhermore, the number of hospitals in the Gaza metropolitan can be counted on one hand, so people are not treated properly. It's not that the Palestinians don't have the cash to build new hospitals. (They are getting plenty from the US, EU and UN) They just rather spending it on ammo, explosives (and corruption) and not on medical care for their own people.
Ah so killed Palestinians is NOT a revlevant fact eh? Shows exactly what your mindset is. If the human shields were so succesfull why do they keep using them? Israel's time in the ICC will come, and I hope to see many of the Israeli criminal convicted and jailed. As to hospitals, they seem to get a remarkable ammount od collateral damage when Israel attacks.
Ii was once a supporter of Israel but thier own actions ahve changed my mind, they are as bad of worse than the freedom fighters (I no longer fall for the false "terrorists label, especially as terrorism was central to the formation of Israel in the first place). What is good for the goose...
Ah, another one sided biased rant trying desperately to deflect crticism of Israel, a nation who are nothing more than thieves who used terrorism to achevie their aims. You can rant all you like but I do not have any problem with jews, and I never have, its Israel actions that is the issue and its muderous behaviour. I was a supporter for 20 years but as I said, it was Israel own muderous killing of CIVILLIANS at 15 to 1 rate, murder of rachel Corrie, US Liberty, and welll known use of collective punshment of families the brought my change of mind.
The world is no longer listening to your pathetic anti semitism wolf cry mate, or Israel's constant spin and lies. You can repeat the false accusation over and over but its worn thin for thinking people.
You can spin disemmble and lie all you like, but people are awake to the guilt trip now and soon
Israel will pay the price for its arrogance, theivery and dishonesty.
Its hillarious how you ignore the fact that the jews in the west bank are living on stolen land and far more Palestinians are in refugee camps. They should get all their land back that was stolen by Israeli terror in 1948, which was also the year jewish terroists murdered the UN representative for attempting to reverse the ethnic cleansing they were conducting. There are countless other examples of such Israeli terrorism, one only has to look. Doesnt one of those silly old books say something like "what you sow you reap" that is exactly the case for Israel.
Ironically they bleat when their own tactics are used against them. It was jewish terrorists who invented the idea of targetting medical responders, when the bodies of 2 british soldiers were hung in the street and bobby trapped to kill the paramedics.
As far as I am concerned these days Palestinians are freedom fighters, and their tactics kill far less civillians than Israels (which should be called occupied Palestine) do.
How about I come over and throw you out of your house and live in it whilst torturing and killing your family, and see how you react.
Pathetic people like you are just blind to anything that does not support your beloved Israel.
Ah, another one sided biased rant trying desperately to deflect crticism of Israel,
No, I asked you 3 times I believe for a workable solution. But you're too busy telling me I'm crying wolf and saying Israel is evil.
a nation who are nothing more than thieves who used terrorism to achevie their aims.
And here I was thinking they formed their own brigade and offered assistance to the British government in fighting the Ottoman Empire in return for land owned by the Brits. But then, I read history books.
You can rant all you like but I do not have any problem with jews, and I never have, its Israel actions that is the issue and its muderous behaviour.
You claim you have no problems with Jews. Your actions however speak differently. Stop talking like an anti-semite and start acting like somebody that actually wants to fix the situation. Criticizing only 1 side of a conflict that has problems on both sides, but refusing to try and fix the situation, is simply showing your bias by refusing to admit the atrocities on the other side.
US Liberty
Well here is a great example. Mistakes happen during wartime. Both the US and Israel researched the incident and found out it was an ACCIDENT due to misidentification. Yet anti-semites ignore that fact and call Israel evil for a mistake. Wouldn't it be a shame if some Arab Palestinians accidentally killed some innocent Jews? Wouldn't it be a shame if some Arab Palestinians purposefully promised to kill every innocent Jew? No I guess not. Damn Israel to hell!
The world is no longer listening to your pathetic anti semitism wolf cry mate
They haven't been listening for thousands of years, that is probably why the Jews keep getting shafted by people like you.
, or Israel's constant spin and lies. You can repeat the false accusation over and over but its worn thin for thinking people.
You can spin disemmble and lie all you like, but people are awake to the guilt trip now and soon
And which lie would you be talking about? Please be specific. Don't act like an anti-semite and paint me a liar without addressing specific "lies" the way you avoid discussing a workable solution to the situation so you can criticize Israel.
Israel will pay the price for its arrogance, theivery and dishonesty.
Oh there is that thievery thing again. Did Britain defeat the Ottoman's with Jewish and Arab help? Were they granted "ownership" of the area as restitution for the Ottoman's attempt to conquer the world? Did they agree to split it into 3 countries: 2 Arab, 1 Jewish, as a thank you to the helpers? At which point did they "steal" the land?
Its hillarious how you ignore the fact that the jews in the west bank are living on stolen land and far more Palestinians are in refugee camps.
When did I ignore it? Never. You probably think I'm some dumb Jew ignoring facts and blindly defending Israel. The only thing I've ever stated is my desire that people only use facts in their arguments and not be so bigoted towards opposing interpretations of the facts. The only ignoring being done here is you of the NATIVE JEWISH PALESTINIANS. They've been living on stolen land for 2000 years? Oh yea, kick them out.
They should get all their land back that was stolen by Israeli terror in 1948, which was also the year jewish terroists murdered the UN representative for attempting to reverse the ethnic cleansing they were conducting.
Wow, that is creative. They "earned" the land between 1915 and 1917 by fighting and dieing for the British against the Ottomans. The terrorist acts you're speaking of started much sooner than 1948 AGAINST the Jews by the Arabs. The Haganah was formed because the Brits were not protecting the isolated Jewish settlements. Sh