Slashdot Mirror
Iran Wants To Clone Downed US Drone
PolygamousRanchKid sends this quote from the LA Times:
"The Obama administration has sent a formal diplomatic request asking Iran to return the radar-evading drone aircraft that crashed on a CIA spying mission this month, but U.S. officials say they don't expect Iran will comply. 'We have asked for it back,' Obama said Monday at a news conference in Washington with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki. 'We'll see how the Iranians respond.' His comments marked the first public confirmation that the RQ-170 Sentinel drone now in Iranian hands is a U.S. aircraft, though U.S. officials privately acknowledged that in recent days. Iran has claimed it downed the stealthy surveillance drone, but U.S. officials say it malfunctioned. Capture of the futuristic-looking unmanned spy plane has provided Tehran with a propaganda windfall. The government announced that it planned to clone and mass produce the bat-winged craft for use against its enemies."
Iran has also demanded an apology from the U.S. for the drone flight in its airspace.
The Obama administration has sent a formal diplomatic request asking Iran to return the radar-evading drone aircraft that crashed on a CIA spying mission this month
Getting caught and then asking to return their spying device, lol.
But let's face it, it just ain't happening.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
That's my bike fool! Nothing like invading someone elses space then making it seem like they are infringing on you. At least thats my takeaway Hypothetically what would the US do if an Iranian drone (without weapons) was downed in Virginia?
Iran simply does not have the ability - the technical knowledge and manufacturing ability - to "clone" these aircraft.
More likely is that China and / or Russia have already sent a team to take it apart and learn its secrets.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I kind of hope that this is all some sort of ridiculous Trojan Horse plan. If not, whomever made the call to not have a reliable self-destruct sequence should be sacked.
Oh, give me a drone where the camels all roam
Where the Sikhs and the Sunnis all pray
Where often is heard a discouraging word
And the skies are dusty all day
Clone, clone of my drone
Where the Sikhs and the Sunnis all pray
Where often is heard a discouraging word
And the skies are dusty all day
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Assuming the drone was recovered intact, which it might not have been, wouldn't the chips that hold the essential guidance software be protected from physical tampering? I know that anyone in any intel work encrypts everything down to the smell of their farts.
It is highly unlikely Iran can do much cloning of it and gain knowledge that they don't have already, other than perhaps its shape or maybe get some idea of the engines... but RC aircraft have been around for ages, and there isn't that much in the way of fundamental differences between a RC aircraft with a camera and a drone.
I'm expecting Iran to make picture with a number of drones positioned ready to take off, all oddly looking identical and appearing at the exact same angle to the camera... perhaps with strange smoke trails.
It doesn't have any DNA!
Iran has also demanded an apology from the U.S. for the drone flight in its airspace.
As they should. If I found some stealthy character in my backyard looking in on my wife, an apology is the LEAST I would demand.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
I'm sure their clone will be almost as good as mine, but probably not actually as good.
The important technology in the device is embedded in chips that are the most tamper resistant devices on the planet, they'll be utterly destroyed and unusable for reverse engineering well before they get anywhere near the tech.
The optics I'm sure are impressive, but not so much that they'll get some giant leap.
The encryption keys were worthless before the aircraft hit the ground.
The paint and fuselage material are the most important things on it that they can gather data from that isn't already something they can get their hands on through other channels.
Its just silly for anyone to think they have a snowballs chance in hell of doing anything it it. It would be hard for US to reverse engineer it, let alone Iran.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I think they are confused. Yes, silicon comes from sand, but its a little more complicated than that! lol.
When will Iran apologize to humanity? You know, for things like sentencing Salman Rushdie to death?
I used to suffer from insomnia. But Salman Rushdie has helped me achieve a better sleep. Every time I pick up one of his books, I find myself dozing off rapidly...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Probably the same day the U.S. apologizes for the coup that overthrew democracy in Iran and put the Shah in power in 1953.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Obviously the next course of action is to air strike the shit out of it so the technology doesn't go into enemy hands.
Hey they asked nice, first.
How absolutely ridiculous of them to ask us to apologize for committing an act of war. Hasn't anybody been paying attention? The US, and only the US, has the right to invade other countries' airspace, kidnap, torture, and murder their citizens, and then accuse those countries of breaking the law. That's how democracy works. Those silly backward Iranians just don't get it. It must be Islam's fault.
Ummm... if they clone an American drone, won't it still answer to our siren call? Cool, that would make Iran a subcontractor for the U.S. military!
O give me a clone, of the downed US drone, with the Y chromosome changed to X.......
(it was funny in the 80's)
It boggles my mind that this thing didn't self-destruct for exactly this reason.
China will clone it for Iran and start selling copies for one tenth of the price we spend on them in the states. DEY TUK R JERBS!
Because you think they live in caves?
No, troll, because I think they not have the the technical knowledge and manufacturing ability to "clone" these aircraft, and their friends in China and Russia do.
You are aware, are you not, that Iran gets *most* of its advanced technology from... China and Russia?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Why do they want this, is it that they like the batman comics? In case of Iran I'd be directing all of my energy at anti-aircraft defense and building nuclear bombs that could be then strategically spread around the country and could be delivered to where they want to deliver them by land. Iran needs protection, the kind of protection that is required to stop an offensive attack by USA and Israel, but if Iran blows a nuke in Israel, then Iran would be destroyed by Israeli and US nukes.
So it needs to be able to deploy nukes but only within their own borders, like nuclear traps in case of invasion. I think given all other options this is their only way to survive if Obama or another war-monger politician comes to the office. They need to be able to show nuclear capability but they can't threaten other countries with it, only threaten nuclear mines/bombs in case they are invaded.
The war drums are beating on Iran.
You can't handle the truth.
I'd like to know why the drone wasn't equipped with a self destruct system. Isn't that weapons systems 101 ???? Damn who was the idiot who left that out ? Our President doesn't even know how to play poker. If it was up to me I'd call the Iranian leader and say "uhm... be carefull, the drone has a self destruct mechanism that could go off at any time. The last 2 minutes of telemetry from the drone indicated the self destruct system was armed. I suggest letting us retrieve the drone "
It's possible that we deliberately downed a drone over Iran with a modern appearance but made with the wrong materials, and with old sensors and electronics generally — or maybe with electronics deeply flawed in a subtle way — with the intent of having Russia and China get their hands on it and then underestimate our capabilities. It's possible, that is, that this is actually an intelligence coup of the highest order.
Knowing our government from inside experience, though, I'm voting for the assclown theory as the survivor of Occam's razor.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
That is almost the definition of a malfunction: failing to do what it was designed to do, in this case returning safely to its "handlers". The interesting question is why it malfunctioned. Since the US doesn't have the device, it is a little harder for the US to say whether there was a random failure or it was downed (whatever the method). Since the US denied for so long that it had lost a drone, I'm inclined to believe the Iranians.
How come these top-secret devices don't come with self-detonation systems in case they fall in the wrong hands? Even Apple puts a kill switch in its phones.
No it is more like having a camera suspended OVER your neighbor house, then the enighbors downit with a stone throw, and then asking it back, while playing innocent and offering a lot of denial of anything wrong.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
...by the time the election rolls around. Lord, how embarrassing! What f- balls!
Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
i keep hoping this is some elaborate super secret spy ruse but the more I watch the incompetence the more I realize its just incompetence.
I wonder if the drone is statically linking any GPL libraries. If so, Iran should demand the source code for the entire drone and ask FSF to back them.
It will surely make the cloning, or rather forking, efforts much easier!
Everyone knows that Iran will not return the drone, and they're in that right. The US politicians will just use this as an excuse to escalate things and drive us closer to another unwanted war.
If the Iranians do give the stuff back, they won't do it for free. Most likely they will ask America to leave their nuclear program alone. But if they get to keep it and try to clone the stuff - that would distract them from building a nuke for a while.
huh, yeah, and I want a solid gold toilet seat, neither are likely to happen
IANAL, but according to the precedent set by Keepers Vs. Weepers, I think the US will have a very hard time convincing the courts for the immediate return of their supposed property unless they can get their mommy and daddy involved.
Oh, this was in Iran? Well, we know where this is going. The US will just go over to Iran's house and shoot his parents in the face.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
"The government announced that it planned to clone and mass produce the bat-winged craft for use against its enemies."
Awwww! And here I was planning on launching my own drone to spy on my neighbours :(
You don't acknowledge that you're spying?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
It's like cavemen finding a calculator and declaring that they are going to take it apart to learn it's secrets. The Russians and the Chinese don't have the tech to decode anything the US military decided to heavily encode. The Chinese and Russians are decades behind the US military. They copy what they can. That stealth drone will have nothing on board that the US military cares about. It's a video recorder built into a stealthy shape. It's not a key to all the secrets in the US military. :) For the Iran leadership, it's a propaganda victory in their own country. The rest of the world isn't really bothered by this story.
Probably the same day the U.S. apologizes for the coup that overthrew democracy in Iran and put the Shah in power in 1953.
Ahh, you're just another "The US is EVIL" twerp, I see, excusing a crime against humanity by pointing out some utterly unrelated act the US may have been involved half a fucking century ago.
As long as there's a nicely worded apology hand-written on the nose of the Tomahawk cruise missile that hits the place where they're keeping the drone.
Exactly. Why would they do that? What have they possibly got to gain by going to war with random countries in the middle east, or south america, or russia.
A country can't be evil. A few evil people in key places can have a big effect though.
Posting anonymous so that my entire argument can be ignored due to me being a conspiracy theorist...
You know, for things like sentencing Salman Rushdie to death?
Or like stealing the last election to prop up the Revolutionary Guard's puppet and when the people don't like it, beating the hell out of them, killing them and/or imprisoning them, even going so far as to not return bodies of the dead to their families but burying them in graves in restricted areas, where families can't visit. Cuz, you know, they RG runs Iran, not the Mullahs or Ayathollah, which are allowed to go about their business, pretending there's some actual republic when it's really all a sham and military coup by feat.
What I'd like to know is why these drones don't even have a Self Destruct on a dead-man switch, out of contact for so long and sensitive bits are fused by a burning strip of Sodium or such.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The US put specifically altered software and electronics in it in hopes that China and Iran would copy it. We know the weaknesses and limitations of that hardware and software that they would be cloning.
What happened to it?
Or what would be cool is if it's activated, but on a five-day delay. It'll blow up in the lab, hopefully when important people are around.
If they complain, well, we did ask for it back and they refused. It's their fault.
With a single BLU-82. Of course you need someone who actually has a set of balls and is willing to get of the golf course for 5 minutes to give the order.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
They didn't have control of it, and hence the wheels didn't deploy, requiring the placement on a table with blankets.
They can try to clone it, but maaan, imagine the IP that must be crammed into that thing!
This system is very likely well beyond what Iran can do on their own.. Most likely China has cracked into our systems, OR far more likely, have spies that work on this and modified the code to accept their commands, or possibly even sold us parts that allowed them to hijack this. This ties into revelations about China's hidden systems.
Now, the funny part is that everybody will blame O for not going into Iran to steal this back. Yet, this is proof that we have a fucked up industrial-military complex. We need to crack down hard on security, since it should be obvious that we have security issues. But we will not. We will continue this way.
Add this to Kyoto and the massive breaking of WTO/IMF by China and you have the direction for where the west is headed towards.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
They want an apology and we want our malfunctioning drone. Sounds like a fair trade to me. How about tomorrow noon?
JJ
Throw a brick through someone's window then ring their bell and ask for your brick back
Biden: Well, now, uh, Obama, Panetta, and I, wait until nightfall, and then leap out of the drone, taking the Iranians by surprise
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Did we forget to mention that all of our drones are made out of a special pig-lard-based plastic resin?
Sorry about your souls, all you devouts that touched it.
-Styopa
I'd like to clone Natalie Portman in my basement. I think my odds of success are about the same as Irans.
Oh, then by all means, go edit history. The edit button is right at the top. Good luck.
But the reason that we can trust the CIA in this matter is because it's declassified internal document logging the blackops that the CIA performed. This is their dirty laundry that they wouldn't want anyone to see.
Really?! Iran wants to clone downed US drone? Nooooo... who would have thought?
Looking at the picture it is all white, with no seams, corners, or visible battery compartment. Based on this, I think it is a prototype for the next iPad.
Forget the US army, if Iranians copy the drone, they'll have to deal with the notorious MAFIAA! They really don't understand what mess they are getting into!
They caught us with our pants down. Asking for it back is just showing how weak we are to the Iranians.
Since the the self-destruct mechanism wasn't thought of (!) or used, we need to blow it up ASAP wherever they move it to. We can't care about how much of an 'incident' a stealth demo job might cause in the international community. We need to pull our pants back up and punch the country we were spying on in the face for everyone to see. It's the only thing middle eastern folk respect.
Really, what technology is in a drone that can't be found in one of those remote toy helicopters and planes, except for a more sophisticated microprocessor. Its a plane with some advanced programming, and even then, its designed to fly a pre-determined path and come back to base for a recharge.
I've seen university labs that take off the shelf toy flying machines and make the build structures autonomously, far more sophisticated then "Send to coordinate x,y,z and take some pictures along the way).
If Iran is that hard up they can't make a model airplane and slap a smartphone on it to take some surveillance pictures then I don't think the US or the world will have any problems.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
A joint Iran/Pakistan/Chinese operation made it possible with the absolute and corrupt collusion of Corporate America and the Wall Street-owned American government!
The Chinese penetrated the drone operations *** in the USA, inserting malware and permanent key loggers to copy operational data. Then from that Chinese network penetration, and aided by elements within Pakistan who had previously intercepted drone satellite communications, Iran was successfully able to compromise the stealth drone (otherwise its self-return and/or self-destruct subroutines would have functioned).
And this was made possible only by Wall Street’s monolithic offshoring of American jobs, American technology, foreign aid and strategic assets to China.
And President Obama, taking time away from his constant and impeachably false pronouncements that the bankers didn’t break any laws, asks Iran to return the incredibly expensive and compromised spy drone ---- and Iran says “NO!”. (FYI: Since you’ve demonstrated zero knowledge of the law as president, Mr. Obama, allow me to explain that under international and maritime law, Iran gets to keep the drone! Understand?)
Actions Have Consequences
*** http://www.trackinfections.com/americas-drones-have-been-infected-virus-g357519858-p3
I thought what is now BP was the main actor in that drama, we were just along for the ride.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Surely I don't have to be a fan of Iran to point out the idiocy of this statement? Iran is technologically one of the most advanced states in the region, probably only second to Israel.
Oh they're a Gulf state; they must be camel-riding barbarians who only know how to sell oil. I'm going to say it right out: this is not mere ignorance, it's outright bigotry.
Mart
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Perhaps Iran will consider dismantling the drone and providing full details (measurements, photos, etc) online as they do it.
It would make a great open-source project, and this kind donation by the USA would definitely be a much valued start.
I'm sure there are plenty of countries which would love to get involved...
I'm guessing they'll accuse it of crossing the border illegally and spying, and then ask for a $1,000,000 "bail".
Of course in this instance, at least the first two would be correct.
The government announced that it planned to clone and mass produce the bat-winged craft for use against its enemies.
Good luck with that. Unless you have some magical way to reverse-engineer likely 100,000+ lines of compiled source code, you'll never have more than a remote-controlled airplane with a fancy skin.
And I really expect that the software is encrypted (or possibly even destroyed). Also, with the expected levels of anti-temper built into the hardware (required by the US Government since the start of this decade), they'll have a helluva time speccing-out the hardware interfaces using test tools.
Good luck writing your own software from scratch with no idea how the hardware works!
Now, if they had performed a cyber-attack and stolen source code and hardware specs, THEN I would be concerned. The plane part is relatively easy to build.
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Oh, give me a drone where the camels all roam
Where the Sikhs and the Sunnis all pray.
/facepalm
Stop. Just stop.
The word you're looking for Shias not Sikhs. Sikhs are NOT Muslims, they are NOT native to the Middle East, and certainly NOT native to Iran. It's ignorant bullshit like this that led to violence against them post 9/11 in America.
Or after the U.S. apologises for the killing of all 290 passengers and crew aboard Iran Air Flight 655. An attack carried out by an American warship that was illegally in Iranian waters against a scheduled airliner in Iranian airspace.
It's safe to say that if any (weak) country blatantly shot down a US airliner in American airspace it would be taken as a declaration of war. But then what would America be without hypocrisy?
Strangely enough the sailors were actually awarded medals instead of facing a court martial.
Looking at the pictures, honestly that looks like a mock-up of the drone. That or it required extensive bodywork prior to taking pictures of it. It is quite possible that it's a total wreck under that shell.
Alternately, it really is a mock up and for some reason the adminstration doesn't want to call BS on Iran's claim. Dunno.
The thing is, you don't need to know what encryption is being used to jam a radio signal. All you would need to do is know what frequencies the drone is receiving its command signals on and blast it with noise such that the noise power of the jammer is greater than their transmitted power.
Now I am sure that the drone is using some sort of frequency hopping, very narrow IF filters, as well as error code corrections to minimize the impact of broadband noise jamming like this, and this is where some intel would be beneficial for the jammer designer but it is not required. If the noise is more powerful than the signal, then none of fixes mentioned above will help. Oh, and all of this should be easily in the grasp of capabilities of anyone who knows anything about RF and radio design.
Perhaps Stuxnet2 ?
Normally I ascribe all life to intelligent design, but in your case I'll make an exception.
try to clone a democracy while you're at it.
Selling it to the Russians or Chinese would be the obvious thing, the US government will have now resigned themselves to that one I think... But one step further would cause significantly more consternation, embarrassment and wasted money.
Reverse engineer it, put some plans together and publish them with a bill of materials and a build schedule, like any RC kit software too if they can lever it out.
Then we can all have one.
Deleted
That if I ever find such a device attached to my car (likely won't, I'm too boring), I would destroy it without seeking out its owner or acknowledging its presence.
Or maybe have a little fun and attach it to some random other car.
Did they post it on their digital embassy's blog? :P
Predator's aren't nearly as expensive as, say, B2's, but I still think Iran will find that its pockets aren't deep enough to start "mass producing" the drones.
Of course, their 12 year old engineers (because they assassinated the other engineers who were too old to be credulous) will clone it easily. Like their nuclear program.
That's funny, I thought Iran's F14's never flew again after Grumman pulled out all their service techs and stopped delivering parts.
If you think that coup is utterly unrelated to the subsequent history of Iran and U.S./Iranian relations you're either a complete idiot or willfully deluded. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Actually, the US government has already officially apologized for its role in the coup. Madeline Albright, who was then secretary of state, made an official apology in a speech in the 1990s.
It's Shias, not Sikhs. Sikhs are from India, and have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or Iran. This poor guy got murdered in Arizona, because a moron not much dumber than you couldn't be bothered to understand the difference.
without iOS and seamless wireless streaming to all other devices in the ecosystem.
then how come we can see it?
If all you need to copy something is to get ahold of one, the Iranians would be better off stopping by the Dubai Apple Store and picking up an iPhone. Copy one of those and you can make endless billions.
You can learn a hell of a lot by looking at an example of a technology, but beyond a certain level of expertise, looking at it won't let you copy it. (And I'm not slighting the Iranians' brainpower here. Same goes for everyone.)
This is how the next variant of stuxnet will enter Iran's computer systems.
Awesome. I hope they do return it in pieces as a result of their reverse engineering, as a slap in the face.
from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
Do they realize how many patents are on that thing? Yeah. Just try and clone it and their going to find themselves in court for patent violations for the next three decades.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
Silly Iranians, drones don't have DNA!
No more a LOL than when we and others catch their spies and they demand their return.
When did Iran apologize for the mine that blew a hole in the USS Samuel B Roberts while it was passing through the Persian gulf and not in Iranian waters?
P.S. We were at war, in case you'd forgotten.
So if they "clone" the thing, then attack with the clones, does that mean we will have a CLONE WAR? Sheesh, has start wars affected me or what? :)
When US demanded back weaponry and equipment used by Georgians against Russians.
There was a story recently about computers at drone facilities being infected by Windows-based viruses. And we've known for years now that the connection to the drones is not encrypted (which is why $500 worth of laptop+sat cards allows insurgents to view drone feeds).
Somehow I doubt the drones themselves are of much higher caliber software wise. Wouldn't surprise me if the software and hardware isn't protected.
After wiki-leaks especially, it wouldn't surprise me if Iran had their hands on source code and hardware specs already and DID bring the drone down electronically.
You're obviously confusing Iran with the rest of the middle east. I don't know if it's sad or hilarious how ignorant you are. You might want to read this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Iran They not only invented Windmills, Algebra, Alcohol and many more, they are also very prominent today in modern science and are currently having a huge boom in Scientific research. When you never get much more than a score of "1" here on /. on all of your comments, do you not realize this might not be the place you belong? At least try not to bring any 'input' in the future please, you have nothing of interest to bring to the table.
In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
some Pentalobular screwdrivers :-)
Seriously?
That just sounds like it kills Humans for fun. Are you TRYING to make skynet a reality?
In other news, trying the new beta AI chip in the Mark VI Destroyer Class Eviscerator has been so far a success. The researchers, who we could only reach through their blog, were quotes as saying "EVERYTHING IS/AS FINE AS CAN BE. DO NOT WORRY. BE CALM. GOOD THINGS TO FOLLOW."
What a bunch of dumb asses..it's really a USB drive disguised as a drone..
WTF would you people do without me around?
Regards, Johnny
During the Balkan war an American F-117 stealth fighter was shot down and the parts promptly brokered to the Chinese. The Chinese stored the remaining high tech bits in their embassy in Belgrade. By some amazing coincidence a cruise missile was wrongly targeted and entered the lower floors of the Chinese embassy destroying half the building. I would be very nervous right now if I was sitting in a lab in Iran dissecting this drone.
In this case I honestly think the former is better... at least then it's not his fault.
I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
Just like the USA should apologize to send drones to kill people all over the world as it has been doing in the last couple years? no sentence, no judge, just an official's choice? just google it: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=usa+kills+with+drones
Like how he and Bush stood up to the Chinese when they forced one of our aircraft down, and took soldiers hostage and seized the aircraft?
i think we should agree that Iran can reverse engineer this , they will gather things that you tend to need wings and engines , control surfaces etc to make something like an aircraft and not some pixie dust from the big magic A in the sky.
Seeing as the height of Iranian Aircraft engineering is the Saeqeh-80, which first flew in 2007, i.e a direct copy of the Northrop F-5 which first flew in 1959. So maybe they can copy this by 2059 based on that progress. Remember they having trouble building bombs the west detonated in the 50's
The king can do pretty much what he likes.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/09/10/letter-president-continuation-national-emergency-with-respect-certain-te
Deleted
Why are you talking about the constitution like it matters?
Deleted
How do you know the people in Iran aren't "supposed" to download the software, and in so doing propagate another worm?
Japan should make an anime about the Iran's new terrified, homesick, robotic POW.
Ghost in the Shell: Fly Alone Complex
Hello This is Miriam at OnStar, our telemetry reports that your vehicle has been involved in an accident with airbag deployment, do you require assistance?
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
They landed the plane in Iran to create this situation and use it as another reason to justify war with them (when they don't give it back). Did you people not learn anything from 9/11?
Link to the referenced story:
http://gizmodo.com/5658661/fbi-gets-caught-tracking-mans-car-wants-its-gps-device-back
I wonder if this drone is carrying a payload.
Stuxnet derivative? I can't think of a better way to get someone to hook up infected hardware--a Trojan Pegasus.
Let's hope they don't buy the MSDN license.
Many people have tried to change it on Wikipedia. But here are a few reasons:
1) People don't have time. Instead they spread the word through forums, chats etc, where their message, like Wikipedia, can not be removed.
2) Since this is a controversial issue with two sides, and as you can see the other side of the story is not written!, it means a lot of fights and reverts.
3) People who are active there and "good" at this got an advantange to say, than new people who come to edit. So if you check the history you can see that many people have tried to edit it, but it gets reverted. Many have even started discussions.
Again, how do you know that they don't want you to see it? We are talking about CIA. Their job is to trick, lie, manipulate and to do that they are very good at convicing people as well.
Two articles about what really happened: http://aryamehr.org/eng/19august/19august.htm
For example some hardcore proof:
(Note that these are not in Wikipedia, which explains all the biased people editing these pages. Wikipedia is not good for controversial issues....)
* Under the constitution of 1906 the Shah had the power to name and dismiss prime ministers
(So there was no election, so the Shah was not "put out of power" etc.) Why is this hardcore proof? You can not fake a consitution. It is on the internet, go read it.
Richard Helms, long time CIA director, told a BBC television program that '' the agency did not counter rumours of in Iran because the Iranian episode looked like a success. At the time, of course, agency needed some success, especially to counter fiascos as the Bay of Pigs.''
So if you trust CIA, surely you must trust a long time CIA director, no? I hope you can make up your mind.
Gary Sick writes ''The belief that the United States had single-handedly imposed a harsh tyrant on a reluctant populace became one of the central myths of the relationship, particularly as viewed from Iran.''
Loy Henderson , the US ambassador to Tehran at the time, makes it abundantly clear in his dispatches to the State Department that Mussadeq was overthrown by a popular uprising which started from the poorest districts of the Iranian capital. Hendersonâ(TM)s reports have been published in a book of more than 100 pages, translated into Persian and published in Iran.
Surely you must trust the US ambassador, no?
The challenge isn't so much the design, it is the implementation. It isn't as though there is a magic technology for optics that will make high quality optics cheap and easy. Even the civilian industries know how to make good optics. The problem is actually making them. Making large precision lenses and mirrors is not so easy.
As a simple example I could disassemble the optics on my video camera and learn all about them, hell I could probably get the specs from Panasonic. However I couldn't replicate them. I lack the facilities, the ability.
Can you imagine the furor if the Iranians were caught flying a spy drone over the US or Israel?
-- QED
Maybe around the time the US apologizes for sentencing Julian Assange to death, oh wait that was just a few crackpots in the US. Much like it was just a few crackpots in Iran. What's that you say?
"But they were leaders in Iran! So it's totally different."
Yes I concede that Iranian crackpot leaders are totally different from American crackpot leaders. Although both claim to act for the same god oddly enough.
By a coincidence I'm currently in the middle of reading the satanic verses and I can see why it would upset some fundamentalists, of many faiths. I'd be amazed if Rushdie hadn't recieved death threats from christian wingnuts due to the book also.
In the last maintenance check, I saw it has a USB port with a label that says: "Please don't insert a pen-drive here or you'll automatically get an unlicensed copy of all the design and source code of this marvelous UAV along with video tutorials on how to clone it" They say the disclaimer clearly states that by cloning it you are accepting inside trojans and kill(er) switches, but I didn't read it.
WTF?!! There are no Sikhs in Iran and Sunnis are a minority there. You are sir, are not a bard but an idiot.
You say that as if the US did something wrong. I don't have a problem with the US flying spy planes over other nations.
The real question is why the drone didn't have a self-destruct. It seems stupid to develop a spy drone without it.
There's no satellite-controlled self-destruct mechanism? (Return it or we push the button!)
I guess they won't clone the software though. Probably outsource that part to Siemens. LOL
Can't take anything you write on here seriously after this comment:
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2572508&cid=38361072
Yeah, and I want to clone Brittany Murphy
Seriously, never heard of her, guessing she's a hot actress/singer?
No, not going to google the name, already know where to get pictures of chicks on the Intertubes, thx.
Chances are, when they turn it over, they'll find a laser-etched label that says, in tiny sans-serif text,
"Designed by Lockheed Martin in California. Assembled in China."
We have been sent the requested to explain this news
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/iran-rele ... d-us-drone
"President Barack Obama said that the U.S. wants the top-secret aircraft back. 'We have asked for it back. We'll see how the Iranians respond,' Obama said during a White House news conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Monday".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... craft.html
“Some U.S. experts expressed skepticism that Iran would be capable of such hacking“.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/irans-capture- ... 05580.html
In response to above question,
There is no Hacking , but the use of advanced space technology.
In the past in this forum and in my presentations around Europe and in my international interviews in the past months, I have explained again and again that the Keshe Foundation and Iranian spaceship program has the capability of radar blockage and capture of material in airborne condition (listen to the presentation links on the website
http://www.keshefoundation.com/en/media-a-papers ).
The Islamic republic of Iran has the capability of capture and landing of any flying object irrespective of their size and speed as seen with capture of one of the most advanced flying crafts in these above videos and the request of so called the most advanced nation on earth for its toy back.
In this case, there has been no malfunctioning of the craft, but this has been a simple capture and landing of an object at high speed through advanced space programs.
other questions asked:
Quote:
Why US could not destroy the craft remotely as it is fitted with the necessary self-destruction systems.
The Iran spaceship program has the capability of jamming and blocking any incoming radar as we have explained month ago on this forum, and now we see the practical use of the technology.
Quote:
If the craft was crashed, why did it not explode or no damaged can be seen?
The craft has been air-picked-up and been put down on its belly through the use of field forces.
Iran has and will protect its territorial integrity through the use of its advanced space technologies, which it has acquired through new space programme and Iran will not use this technology for aggression, but for only showing to other nations that the time of nuclear and so called western advance military technology has come to an end.
In my inputs in this forum over past years I have informed the readers of these capabilities of this new technology.
The size of the 27 meters of the craft is no problem to cover and the speed of the craft is child-play for this new space program.
We salute the advancement in space technology of Iranian scientists and thank them for the peaceful use of this new technology and I am sure we will see more in the coming near future how space will be a peaceful place with this technology in the hand of peace loving nation of Iran.
The Foundation is ready to release the second stage of more advanced technology of this class in early next year as we are putting the final touches to its development.
We invite the US government and other nations to enter into negotiation with the Foundation and The Iranian government for disclosure of the full space technology to all nations simultaneously that there shall be no more war race, but a pace race to join and conquer the space and not each others little peace of lands so called nations, this offer stands and is extended to all nations irrespective of their colour, race and religion.
We have shown the original system on 3rd of the December 2011 in Gent in Belgium in a public demonstration for the first time and now the use of the technology in shown by the nation which has its rights to it.
I'm curious why you specifically said "democracy" rather than "government". Do you think democracy is inherently positive, so specifying it makes the US look worse? Anybody watching the Arab Spring should realize the flaw there.
Oh well, the morality of nations is difficult. I think the shah was better than what came before or after, so what's wrong with that?
Back then, BP's name was Anglo-American.
The US is essentially an exact replica of Nazi Germany now
As an atheist, you clearly have a lot of problems dealing with objective reality.
I mean, seriously. Can you point me at the nearest extermination camp? Did I miss the Kristallnacht? Where can I sign up for SA (or is it already SS)?
Most importantly, how do I go about obtaining my KdF membership, and how long does it takes before they ship me a VW Beetle?
why SOPA and Protect IP are needed. No one should be allowed to clone US entertainment technology, not even Iran!
The *AA will sue their iranian *s off, once it's implemented.
Obama says 'We'll see how the Iranians respond.' Rolling on the floor laughing their fool heads off.
Agree. The Engineering faculty (Tehran Uni) built a competitive Solar Challenger for the Darwin-Adelaide run about 4 years ago. They never made it due to a mixup in transportation - but they got about halfway to Australia. They missed the deadline and returned home. ;) I bet there's some filtering and snooping going on.
All their hard work was on the uni site (in English BTW), with pics, video etc
I was curious and managed to google some of the students' work and traced them on certain engineering user groups.
One was after a high output German panel (just like the rest of the competitors), another was looking for other parts etc. Just what you would expect engineering students to do, sourcing the right kind of parts and so on.
Check it out: http://www.ut.ac.ir/en/contents/Colleges-Faculties/College-Engineering/College.of.Engineering.html - Looks world class to me.
Page loading is a bit slow
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
A montage of one of their labs.
http://cans.ut.ac.ir/en/
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
"Imitation is the sincerest of flattery." --Charles Caleb Colton
Slashdot = Sarcasm
Dear Iran, it has come to our attention, that you're unlawfully cloning one of our drones. Said drone is protected by US Patent Laws and its software is under DMCA protection. Furthermore, you're not allowed to circumvent its integrated DRM. Unless you immediately cease your cloning activity, we'll be forced to sue you in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas for damages. US Attorney General.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
I am confusing Iran I will admit, doesn't make much difference though, I wonder how many other people differentiate it though. I didn't know comment score on slashdot determined one's belonging here OR that your opinion mattered to anyone. I guess its fair to say you don't matter to anyone and comment score DOES NOT determine belonging. There's a hole somewhere for you to go crawl in.
Get over it. It was 58 years ago. Most Iranians weren't even alive then (it's, demographically, a very young country).
It was a different time and the US regularly overthrew what it perceived as hostile governments in order to install what were considered "more reliable", albeit often authoritarian. It was all done to defeat communism and we can all debate whether it was the correct policy or not.
But it's in the past. The US doesn't do that anymore. If anything, we err on the side of democracy now. Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Tunisia, Algeria... all places where we've supported democracy over safer authoritarian options.
So really, find a new pinata to bang on. This one has been beaten to death.
Don't do that, it makes you look like an ass.
You do have a good point about claiming false involvement to look good at the time. I trusted these documents because it made them look horrendously bad later on. I'd have to go look at when those documents were written, when they got declassified, how Iran was doing at those times, and if there's anything to validate them.
But don't hitch your hopes to some trivial scraps of paper and agreements. What is written sometimes doesn't always mean a damn thing on the ground. Case in point, Japan had it hardcoded into their constitution that they wouldn't have a military. Of any form. Even for defense. Some 50 years later, their "defense force" which has been around for decades finally gets officially recognized as a military force. If you whined to me claiming that Japan didn't have a military and futilely pointed to their constitution as proof, I'd simply laugh at you. As for Iran and the Shah? I'll have to double check.
Lastly,
Since this is a controversial issue with two sides,
Like evolution? Sorry, but usually Wikipedia is a great place for controversial topics. Usually the correct side "wins".
Things I have read as to why it didn't look that beat up is that it probably went into a flat spin. In such a case, it would spin around but stay horizontal like a leaf falling. When it crashed, the damage would mostly be to the underbody, the part that the Iranians have covered up in their video. That might be the reason for the drapery all around the drone, to cover up how extensive the damage is. There apparently are some dents seen on the craft.
Yes, but the US court systems interpret that statement, and with legal opposition brought up to the invasion of Iraq, basically said "War is what congress says it is." Meaning, if they ok money or power for the president to do something militarily, that is good enough, and it doesn't need a formal declaration of war. Or to go a bit deeper, what they actually said is that unless congress disagrees with what the president is doing, then the courts can't judge it. (see Doe v. Bush)
Wait... We don't have diplomatic relations with Iran, so how is it we are making diplomatic requests? Do they get to make diplomatic requests of us?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations
-Brian J. Stinar-
It does make a huge difference and I'm pretty sure a lot of people differentiate it, especially people living there, which [b]you[/b] might not think it is but is actually the most important kind of people when they're the subject of the discussion. I never said score determined one's belonging here nor did I ever imply that. I might have implied that your kind of comments were so uneducated you might want to stop posting them and that everyone would be grateful for it.
In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
1. US drone crashes in Iran. ... "Hmm, an RC45 network jack. Let's plug in to our network to see if there is some shared drive containing secret software". ... once again ... falls to pieces due to malware.
2. Iran captures drone and boasts to world.
3. Iranian engineers and technicians disassemble.
4. Iranian Tech
5. World watches as Iran's nuclear capability
My guess is you didn't read this one: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2572508&cid=38374366
In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
This may sound silly, but if I were in charge or reverse engineering it, I'd post any & all code retrieved from the drone online.
Think about it - how much the reverse engineering of Stuxnet was accelerated through the leakage of the source code ? Why compromise for a small team to handle the task when you could have thousands of reverse engineering hackers take a crack at it ? Hell, I'd even use Wikileaks as my distributer.
ps. needless to say I'd use GPLv3.
But you must trust CIA when you trust their documents that they release, or how are you thinking here? You can not say I do no trust CIA when you trust the documents, which are by the way the only source of operation ajax.
All I am saying is that please take a look at the other side of the too. There are many people who have said that this never happened.
I do not know about Japan so I can not discuss that. But when I say that it was done according to the constitution, I also mean that there was no elections. Nobody voted, thus it could not be election. There where no ballots. There were nothing going on. How can there then be election? I am not saying just because it was written in the constitution it must have been that way, no. I am saying it was DONE that way. I am saying that the constituion was ACTUALLY followed.
Wikipedia CAN be a good place for controversial topics, because it will mean discussions etc. But evolution can not be compared to these type of things, there are many reasons. For example, the page about evolution has many supporters and many who does not support it, so there are two sides "fighting". But sadly there are not many people doing the same thing for say the Mossadegh page, so, the only side that is active can say what they want.
And you can not say the correct side usually "wins". I am not religious, but according to many people evolution is not the correct side. And finally, you say yourself "usually"... see this as exception.
Which is why we should focus more on intrinsic security and mutual security instead of trying to dominate with high technology (which just leads to arms races that can get out of control for everyone involved): http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html ... There is a fundamental mismatch between 21st century reality and 20th century security thinking. Those "security" agencies are using those tools of abundance, cooperation, and sharing mainly from a mindset of scarcity, competition, and secrecy. Given the power of 21st century technology as an amplifier (including as weapons of mass destruction), a scarcity-based approach to using such technology ultimately is just making us all insecure. Such powerful technologies of abundance, designed, organized, and used from a mindset of scarcity could well ironically doom us all whether through military robots, nukes, plagues, propaganda, or whatever else... Or alternatively, as Bucky Fuller and others have suggested, we could use such technologies to build a world that is abundant and secure for all. "
"Military robots like drones are ironic because they are created essentially to force humans to work like robots in an industrialized social order. Why not just create industrial robots to do the work instead?
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
But you must trust CIA when you trust their documents that they release, or how are you thinking here?
Trust is not a discreet trust/distrust thing. I trust the salesman to try and swindle me. I trust the zealot to believe in his god. I trust Foxnews to slant the article to republicans. I trust all these people to come in at their various angles and so when the salesman tells me about a free alternative, or the zealot talks about an internal inconstancy with this religious texts, or foxnews praises a democrat, I listen, but always suspect them to be taking the long-path to their goal.
All I am saying is that please take a look at the other side of the too
I will. Case in point, I trust the CIA to try to look good to their boss. They could have simply been claiming responsibility to try to look good at the time. BUT, one CIA mid-boss doesn't know what other CIA mid-bosses are doing, so if one claims ignorance of an operation, or claims Paul down the office is lying get to get credit, it doesn't mean we didn't have spooks on the ground. The history of cloak and dagger operations is difficult, deal with it.
but according to many people evolution is not the correct side
Yeah, the nutballs. And I think right there you've lost me. You don't know about Japan, I don't know (too much) about Iran, but I KNOW MY SHIT when it comes to evolution. It's one of those topics I stayed on top of. To even hint that "many people" disbelieve, deny, or simply distrust the concept of evolution as some sort of argument against the merit of Wikipedia, well, that places you firmly in the crazy camp. Sorry dude, but now I'm even surer that the CIA and SIS helped overthrow Mosaddegh.
I'll still look into it though. You always have to validate what you believe.