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Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
An anonymous reader writes "Steven Elop of Nokia has placed some of the blame for the struggles of Windows Phone on mobile phone shops — for not pushing it. As The Register points out, sales staff 'want their commission,' and tend to only show phones they think might sell. Exact details of Windows Phone sales numbers are being covered up by both Microsoft and Nokia, who refuse to state specifics; sales figures to operators are stated at one million, but the majority of those seem to be unsold to consumers, and neither Microsoft nor Nokia will give numbers on activations. The best available numbers seem to be maximum Lumia sales estimates from Tomi Ahonen, a former Nokia Executive and the only analyst to correctly predict Nokia's market share fall for the end of 2011. Nokia's Lumia sold around 600,000 phones in 2011 (again, including the large portion in warehouses). One of the worst signs for WP8 is that Nokia's N9 — despite being crippled without marketing, and often selling at full price compared to the almost fully subsidized Lumia phones — is selling better than Nokia's Windows phones, with 1.5M or more phones reaching end users. Interestingly, if the Nokia N9 had been available in all markets, it might have sold almost 5M units and pushed Nokia into profitability."
Then maybe you should fire your marketing department, because clearly you are trying to convert the wrong people.
then they'd love us. Or hate us. Which ever, we'd have more money.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
People have been so fed of this that made a site with horror stories listed on a map.
http://wptattletale.com/retail-locations
People who even walk in looking for Windows Phones are steered towards Android phones.
This space for rent.
I invented my own mobile device. It is fully awesome. I blame its lack of success on the fact that no-one would agree to manufacture it.
Have a marginal product that you can't sell? Blame it on anybody other than the designers/manufacturers. Let's ignore the fact that Microsoft wrote the specs for the phone as well as the operating system, let's ignore that the phone is locked up tighter than a 14 year old Mormon virgin, let's ignore the fact that there's been practically no marketting and advertising for this brick. It's the salesmen's fault, pure and simple.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
tend to only show phones they think might sell
They must have more business sense than Elop? We'll see who's still in business next year, ye olde cellphone shoppe or Nokia. I... would bet on the cellphone shop.
Exact details of Windows Phone sales numbers are being covered up by both Microsoft and Nokia, who refuse to state specifics
Must be extremely bad if its coverup time. Even the Zune figures weren't kept this well buried. Aren't there stats from "popular" apps like the facebook app or angry birds where you can assume 75% of owners have those 3rd party apps, therefore if they have 750K sales of AB or FB on the MS app store or whatever, they would probably therefore have about 1M phones out in the wild?
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
"Steven Elop of Nokia has placed some of the blame for the struggles of Windows Phone on mobile phone shops â" for not pushing it. As The Register points out, sales staff 'want their commission,' and tend to only show phones they think might sell
Those salespersons know something about those phones that "burning platform" Elop does not. WP7 on Nokia does not sell.
Interestingly, if the Nokia N9 had been available in all markets, it might have sold almost 5M units and pushed Nokia into profitability."
Truer words not said.
Only Schettino of the Costa Concordia could have done worse.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The people selling it, the "experts" as it were, have no faith in the product. That doesn't sound better than the consumers having no faith in the product.
Salesmen sell things that people want to buy. Full story at 11.
Meego project had huge potential, but you went for the quick bucks.
The dutch wanna-be tech site tweakers.net ran this figure a day or two ago... and you had fanboy after fanboy proudly proclaiming that 1 million sales to vendors showed just how this was the end of Android and iPhone and the full victory of MS and Windows Phone 7... ignoring quite easily that Android has 700.000 activations a DAY and that the latest iPhone does something like 4 million in a weekend.
MS market share on the mobile market has always been and continues to be laughable but being outsold by a Linux phone that has no marketting and isn't available in the west? That is just beyond sad, it might even be time for shareholders to start questioning if Nokia is upholding its duty as a publicly traded company to maximize shareholder value.
Missing from this story is that MS is funding Nokia for quite a lot of money, I believe it came down to about 150 or so dollars per sold MS phone IS they actually sold 1 million (185 million subsidy).
Some MS fanboys already admit that 7 and 7.5 are already duds but surely 8 will be the lucky numbers (actually a far higher version number but who can keep track when failure comes so fast and reliable) but without any real claims.
The sad part is that MS doing so badly isn't helping the market any, competion is good for the customer and right now there just isn't any from MS.
Elop should just be fired by the shareholders, how can you claim with a straight face that your phone doesn't sell through the fault of the shops when the phone you won't put in the shops outsells it by a gigantic margin?
If any Nokia shares are still in private hands, I would be highly suprised if this story won't have a tail (shares owned by MS and MS friends don't count of course).
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Elop has shown his ignorance in the way mobile phones are sold (at least in the UK). The pressure on sales staff is incredible to make the numbers. They cannot afford to put all of their efforts into selling a lame duck. And the public are all buying iPhones, Android and BlackBerry smartphones. The WP7 Nokia Lumia are not generating much if any interest in the buying public. So the sales staff are going to focus on all and anything that will fly off the shelf, and WP7, no matter how much smoke Elop blow up our arses about how good it is (it isn't) will make a blind bit of difference. Nice try Nokia. Now do the right thing, swallow your pride and put Android on the N8 and be prepared to be hit with a tsunami of orders.
Phone reps aren't stupid, atleast not any more stupid than any other sales reps. They push what they know they can sell and they can sell iPhones and Android phones. If a rep tries to push WP phones on me, first question is, "Is it rootable?". "Can I install Android on it?" if no, then move along.
Explain the N9 then, actively crippled by Nokia itself, not for sale in shops in many countries AND still it sells more.
Also, how does webshop push you to another phone then the one you are searching for?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Blaming WP7's failures on every mobile phone salesperson all over the world is a cop-out.
Remember Windows Mobile? It powered several nice smartphones, especially models from HTC. Those sold very very well up until the iPhone took over. Did salesmen require bribes to sell those?
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
From what I've seen of the reviews, WP is a pretty good OS, and the Lumia phones are being sold at pretty competitive prices with lots of marketing behind them. So, now MS and Nokia are fishing around for explanations for why they aren't selling to consumers.
The answer is the MS brand. After years of pushing crap on users, using nasty and anti-consumer tactics to fight their competitors, and trying to harm the Internet, MS is a tarnished consumer brand - surprise, surprise.
Obviously, I think this is fair, but I also think it is fair that consumers and the industry re-evaulate brands. MS has been much better behaved in recent years (e.g. they are trying to win the browser wars by making their browser better) so maybe they deserve a second chance?
Salesmen only want to sell what will sell? Alert the media! The product with the better commission structure gets pushed harder? I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I tell you!
For decades, Microsoft made damn sure that it was really hard to buy a PC with an operating system other than Windows from anybody other than Apple. And it didn't stem from a tendency of salespeople to seek commissions, it was done with draconian contracts and dirty back-room deals.
As soon as they enter a market where they don't have the clout to demand hardware manufacturers pay a royalty for every unit sold, whether or not an MS operating system is included, they start whining about salespeople pushing what they think will sell.
Yea, or at least make a good OS.
Yes, I use Windows on my desktop PC,on my laptop and will buy an UMPC with Windows, but this is so that I would have consistency among them (whatever I can run on my desktop, I can run on my laptop or the UMPC, but slower - no need to look for new software that does the same (and has the same data formats) as the software on my desktop). If WP7 supported x86 apps, it would be different, but now it's the same as iOS or Android or Symbian, so I might as well use an OS that is not so locked up.
I used to be a Nokia fan (still am a fan of their older phones) because of the hardware. But now I cannot find a good smartphone that has a keypad (instead of just a touchscreen) so I still use my 6 year old Nokia N93 (among other features, it has a good keypad with big keys).
I sold audio equipment for a couple of years and one of the first things I got to learn was to always give the customer TWO options. Unless the customer seemed unhappy with both choices, introducing a third option would only make the buying decision harder often resulting in a "need to go home and think about it"-response. This of course combined with lazy salespersons who doesn't feel they need to learn anything more than they absolutely need to close a deal.
This isn't exactly news to people in sales. Anyone trying to enter as a "third option" will have an extemely tough time trying to break through in the market, even if their product is better in many aspects.
(And as with any golden "rule of thumb" within sales, there is of course a shitload of exceptions, but I doubt the smartphone market is one of them)
Jesus had a UNIX beard.
I walked into a Sprint store and purchased a Windows phone without the salesman batting an eye just the other day.
I don't respond to AC's.
of the TV commercials I fast-forward thru and the billboards I pass on the road. I have seen ZERO Nokia ads and few Windows Phone ads.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
It's fairly easy to root. Get the MFG password, set a half dozen reg keys through the phone, bam, rooted.
Windows sucks. Face it most people had a bad experience with Windows even if it's their own fault. It's also something their company uses so a lot of people associate their distaste of work with Windows. Combine that with the fact it doesn't look that cool and offers nothing all the other phones have and you have to question why anyone would want one.
I bought one for myself, another as a gift and I'm thinking of buying two for my parents.
It has seamless Skype and SIP integration, so you can type in a number and choose which service to use from a drop-down box, all from the standard interface. Messaging is all integrated, with SMS, Google Talk, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, etc. The UI looks great and is very smooth. The phone runs Linux on a 1 GHz processor, with 1 GB of RAM, so you can do a lot with it, with true multitasking and a lot of features. Application development is really nice, since it's all based on Qt. And you can imagine how neat it is to run Linux on a phone, and use apt-get to install stuff.
I have no problem with Nokia making Windows phones. It's nice OS, even if it's lacking apps (in particular, no Skype and no SIP stack). But cancelling Meego was madness from a business perspective. Elop killed an amazing product, and what is in my opinion the best mobile OS out there, for both consumers and developers.
Not about the phone, I've never heard of it. But in NZ they're advertising the Windows 7 OS. The TV ads are absolutely terrible.
One is a father and son both on laptops, the son gets dad to help with division on his computer(which you'd expect to be easy on a computer), and the son goes onto his dad's laptop. He then groovies up his powerpoint presentation with noise, wallpaper, and 3D extruded text and graphs.
Compare this to the elegant and elitist Mac ads. They make you think that one becomes stylish and cool with lots of good-looking friends of all races with perfect smiles. This is proper marketing. Mac is much better at it than MS.
I bought an E71 and I can certainly say that it wasn't the smartest decision I ever made.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
N9 doesn't run Symbian. It runs Harmattan, which is a transitional system between Maemo and Meego. It's Linux based. From the userspace it looks a lot like a normal Linux system, though the N900 was much better in that respect.
WHY should Salesmen do *anything* different than Nokia ("go for the buck"), you fucking prick?!
With Apple products there was a Halo effect- people who liked ipods and iphones. But Microsoft has been creating OS's for many years and is now seeing what we really think of their products. Why don't I consider getting an Windows phone? Ask me why I have numerous disks, files, folders and variables over the years that I've named MS_SUCKS or FIX_MS_CRAP, etc, etc. Think about the amount of time people spend trying to defend and repair their systems from viruses and malware that exists because of a flawed overall security strategy. Add to that their philosophy of designing to the least common denominator - I expect that a Windows phone will come with a Reana or CeLow ring tone, but without a free built in wifi extendor
The market is already saturated with locked-in, walled garden type smartphones. Microsoft isn't offering anything that other manufacturers aren't already. Most people aren't going to want to buy a WP7 device if they can get an established Android phone or iPhone at the same price.
They probably have a plan-B; namely, buy Nokia, and either produce own phones or, more likely, leverage the patent portfolio to "encourage" other phone manufacturers to produce Windows phones. Or just extract royalties.
I really hope Nokia think to ship the existing handsets (sans Windows logos) with Android on them. 'cos I'm fairly sure what most people want is a nice looking Android with solid hardware... which is what Nokia do well.
Windows Phone, according to Facebook -> https://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=135892916448833
Steven Elop is only a step away from Amiga Persecution Complex.
Except in his case, it won't be warranted, whereas in the actual case of the Amiga, it was. Cuz the market failure of the Amiga was clearly the result of a conspiracy.
Signed,
An Amiga Advocate
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Wow. I didn't think it would happen this quickly but anyone who's a fan of Maemo / Meego definitely saw this coming. It really is too bad that Elop is just another short sighted CEO interested in making a quick buck at the long term expense of the company.
giggity
Whoa. You think the proper response to Elop's commentary is "L2P Your Market?"
I like it. I hope you get modded +infinity Insightful
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
(...)
The real Top 13 reasons why Nokia Lumia and Windows Phone will fail, not just in USA but across planet
It's worth reading.
It is worth reading indeed! As a European which owned several Nokia phones, I found this article very interesting. It is written by the former Nokia executive Tomi Ahonen, most of the given reasons are based in the fact that WP7 is a major departure from Nokia's philosophy and vision (which was reflected in their products). Here are some insightful quotes:
REASON 1 MESSAGING MADNESS: Nokia has a natural strength in messaging-oriented smartphones (the most used feature of all mobile phone owners from Africa to the USA is messaging, including smartphone owners). It is abandoned with the first 3 Lumia phones. (...) The world's first person-to-person SMS text message was sent in Finland in 1993 on the Radiolinja GSM network from one Nokia phone to another, by a Nokia employee Riku Pihkonen. (...) Even the inventor of SMS, Matti Makkonen finished his career at Nokia (he was my last mentor). (...) And what has been a major feature of Nokia smartphones always - a high proportion of them have had physical QWERTY keyboards in several formats (...) Did Nokia bother to put a QWERTY keyboard onto its first three Lumia phones? No! Note, this is a Nokia competitive advantage. Note, 90% of American smartphone owners wish this more than anything else (...) Nokia voluntarily abandons nearly half of the addressable market and instead - forces, FORCES all Lumias to be compared to iPhones (rather than compared to Blackberries).
REASON 2 - CAMERA CATASTROPHY
Nokia mobile phones have always been known for good cameras, its flagship phones tend to have had the best cameras in the world. The camera is the second most used feature. The Lumia series is a downgrade of Nokia camera capability and will severely disappoint past Nokia owners and not stand up to rivals today.
REASON 6 - INPUT FAILURE. The Nokia strength has been exceptional QWERTY keyboards. On the N9 using MeeGo Nokia was able to innovate with touch screen inputs. But Lumia has neither. It is a cheap copycat of the iPhone style touch screen input and Lumia abandons natural Nokia strengths while showing no competitive advantages.
REASON 7 - Fails in variety of models. Nokia has traditionally been able to hold to the world's largest smartphone market share - a year ago Nokia was literally not just bigger than the iPhone, it was bigger than the iPhone and all Samsung smartphones - combined. Now Samsung is 'doing the Nokia' with its expanding Galaxy portfolio while the three Lumia devices are near clones of each other. Nokia is again voluntarily abandoning a competitive advantage, which means Lumia will perform less well than Nokia was able to do in the past.
REASON 10 - REGRESSING on features and services. (...) The joke was, that to see what will be on the next iPhone model, just look at a 3 year old Nokia flagship. The Lumia is the first time ever, that Nokia has regressed in its features, severely. Not just pruning unnecessary tech 'bloat' but literally going back in tech, to specs that were normal on Nokia phones a year, two, even three years ago.
REASON 12 - POISONED CARRIER RELATIONSHIPS with Nokia. The handset industry is different from the PC industry or home electronics, in that the carriers/operators decide which phone succeeds and which fails (witness the short-lived Microsoft Kin). Nokia used to have the platinum-standard carrier relationships a year ago. Those were burned by the CEO last year. Today Nokia's carrier relationships are the worst they have ever been.
Read TFA for missing reasons and references.
Are we supposed to agree and bash the marketing people or disagree and bash Microsoft here?
(+1, Disagree)
My last phone was a Nokia XPress Music 3510. The only reason I binned it was because, after 4 years, the screen cracked and began cutting out or losing backlighting. I was shocked at how few Nokia phones there were on show, either in the "Pay as you go" or Contract sections of the stores (I went to about 6 to find the best prices). If there were any Nokias they were relegated to the "Other makers" section, alongside makers. Blackberry's got their own (small) stand, as did iPhones, while about 2/3s of the walls were the myriad Android handsets from Samsung, HTC, et al. This is in the UK btw, and the O2 store in particular had probably two Nokia handsets in total. The had more Sagem handsets than Nokia. (Not to besmirch Sagem, I have owned TWO sagems out of 5 phones I've owned since 2002, the first was actually my first phone, and was fine. Simple, but fine. The second got wedged between the inside and the outside of a car and refused to work afterwards but was a good phone while it lasted).
Frankly, Nokia had a good thing making phones that were phones. Their attempts to break into the Smartphone market have been schizophrenic at best. S60 was supposed to be superceeded by atleast three different OSes IIRC. Maemo, Meego (Which was an evolution of Maemo) and Symbian 3. Now they're making Windows phones and, while I don't think anyone doubts that it's a capable OS (if not the best, I don't think anyone will say it's unusable), and requires only marketing and visibility to sell, I don't think Nokia realise that the name "Nokia" is no longer synonymous with "Good Phone", and hasn't been for some time. They've been overtaken by Samsung, HTC, Apple and RIM (and that's saying something considering RIMs in a bit of bother). And the reason is plainly one thing: They were late to the party and they brought more drink while everyone was already sozzled and sleeping comfortably with their poison of choice.
It's like what happened with IBM and OS/2, they've lost and don't know it yet. They need to refocus to survive. Maybe in a few years a gap will open up when the next big tech leap comes out. Bide their time and come back stronger.
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
Windows Phone, according to Facebook -> https://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=135892916448833
Shhhh, don't let facts get in the way of a /. anti-MS orgy. You need to extrapolate the total number of phones sold across two dozen models in over a year by assuming the total number sold is equal to the number sold of one model in less than a month!
and tend to only show phones they think might sell.
No, seriously? So, if you strip away all the bullshit bingo words and the nonsensical attitude, the basic message is: "We know nobody wants this crap." ?
Wow. Talk about crash & burn. Nokia is so finished, it really is a shame. They used to make nice phones once.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Remember when OS X and thus Apple started to gain in users? Why was that?
It was because OS X was catering to the right people: The opinion leaders. To us.
The very same thing goes for mobile phones. It doesn't suprise me the least that N9 sales are better. It runs Symbian
I can't say what amuses me more: that you consider yourself an opinion leader, or that you don't know what are you talking about.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
There's no such thing as WP6.5. There was Windows Mobile 6, and there is Windows Phone 7, but they have less in common than Mac OS X and Windows 7.
Nokia shot themselves in the foot by having a hundred different phone models available at any one time and not many of them very good. My friend had a high end Nokia,which was buggy and glitchy. I told him it was no problem, I would go to the Nokia website and download a firmware update for him. Well, after a year still no firmware update. He then went and bought an iPhone which he loves. If Nokia focused on making a few really good phones instead of a hundred average ones they might have retained some customer loyalty.
So the moral of the story is:
1.) MS as a brand stinks in the consumer space (xbox is not enough, and only cool with male gaming demographic anyway). Who in their right mind attaches the windows name to their reborn phone OS.
2.) Salesmen are driven by commissions.... in other news, bear sh-ts in woods. So why not put away some bribe money, since everyone else is doing it.
Ironic that MS is for once offering a technically good product that is failing due to non technical matters, they're more used to being in the opposite situation
Essentially, it's a spin on the phrase: "A poor workman that blames his tools"
Saruman the White blames lazy man agents for the slow uptake of palantÃri.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
wasn't there a similar article a while ago? Is my memory playing tricks on me?
Right, that's exactly how you should cover Windows Phone news on Slashdot. Link one posting, by a blogger well known for poorly substantiated rants against Elop's Nokia. Link it twice as if referring to two sources. Cite a sales figure expertly pulled out of thin air by the said blogger, in preference to an officially confirmed higher figure. Ignore the fact that the phones have only been on the market for a couple of months at best in Q4 2011, so any sales projections, even were they based on verified data, may be widely off. Top up with a headline that recasts Elop's message into a negative emotional light (he was actually careful enough to avoid assigning blame). You are guaranteed a storm of responses from like-minded people, most of whom have never seen a Lumia or any Windows Phone in action, but are quick to disparage it, because it replaced a mythically great Linux-based platform that N9 was never intended to become.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
I also am still using Windows Mobile 6, on the HTC Touch (thanks to being on a legacy Sprint SERO plan).
Breaking legacy compatibility has allowed MS to ditch a lot of baggage, but the big problem is that I need to have access to specific applications. I could get more WP7 games and social-widgets than I care for, but important software I actually need (such as Epocrates medical reference) just never made the migration from WM6 to WP7. It's ironic, given that so much of the dominance of Windows on PCs comes from its backwards compatibility and the huge library of applications available.
Maybe they just expected developers would line up just because they were Microsoft -- but without backwards compatibility, WP7 had no more advantage than other latecomers in overcoming the Customer/App chicken-and-egg problem.
I have a feeling that Microsoft have been mistaken branding everything they do "Windows something". People generally run Windows not because they like Windows (they curse it, generally) but because they have to have it to run the apps they want.
If that driver isn't there, people run a mile from anything branded Windows, because they see Windows as dull and a source of discomfort from their experience on the PC. Android and iOS don't have that baggage. Also, there will be a lot of negative baggage from memories of the old Winmo devices. Non-technical people don't realise that Windows Phone 7 is actually a different platform, they see the name "Windows", and remember what WinMo and WinCE (pronounced wince) was like. Also you'll get the folks who see "Ah, Windows, therefore it'll run suchandsuch an app for my PC too", then find that Windows Phone is actually completely different to Windows on the PC and is incompatible, and get disapointed.
Note that Apple didn't call the iPhone OS "OSX", even though they share a codebase - it got called something completely different, thus avoiding confusion and avoid having disappointed nontechnical people who think their Mac software can run on their iPhone or iPad.
In short, I think Microsoft should have invented a different name that's not Windows for their phones to break all the negative associations people have with Windows (dull, something I use only for work, etc.). But then again, we've seen Microsoft try to be cool in the past and it was painful to watch (Zune).
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
It's just an unmitigated disaster, and in Steve Ballmer's infinite wisdom, they simply scaled it up to desktop size and called it Windows 8.
They started with scaling XP down to phone size, and that was an abortion. So, all they could think of was to do the polar opposite, and develop a TERRIBLE phone interface, and just scale it up to desktop size.
Can we burn Microsoft to the ground already? They're completely irrelevant and only hang on because humans are afraid of change.
"Anybody want to buy some...phones" *Pulls out inner sides of jacket. Pretty soon it will be used hubcaps.
Society use your Sciences
Microsoft: No one want's your operating system on their phone.
We have seen what you have done with the PC
Common Nokia, you had you chance 4yrs when the iPhone to get your act together, and you didn't. Then once your almost dead in the market, you take on Windows Mobile? You would have had a good chance surviving if you took on Android, but not any more. I loved your phones for 10yrs, owning about 12 of them in that time, until I got my iPhone. Goodbye Nokia, it will be sad to see you go.
You'll find better results if you shop for these in Vegas.
We sent a secret shopper into ten different stores to ask for a W8 phone.
Only two steered him to other phones.
Seven gave him a mental health referall.
The tenth sighed, and then punched him in the nose. :)
hawk
Really, no 6.5? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/06/windows-mobile-6-5-review/
And the windows mobile 6.5 sdk from MS.... http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5389
I can see your ultra literal interpretation, but really, come on.
as opposed to the 2 .exe's i clicked to root my HTC HD2. I'd rather not have to putz around editing registries when I don't have to. Though my skill level provides me the knowledge to do so, time is something I do not care to waste.
Really, no 6.5? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/06/windows-mobile-6-5-review/
And the windows mobile 6.5 sdk from MS.... http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5389
He was referring to WP6.5, however there was no Windows Phone 6.5, there was a Windows Mobile 6.5 and Windows Mobile is a very different product to Windows Phone.
hence my other reply about his literal meaning....
I have serious reservations to link a blog that only seems to cite its own articles, never real sources. Easiest example: for Nokia's Q4 2011 results, there's no link anywhere but to its own take on it. No link to important claims such as the 1.3 million units target.
It's a shame, because I too find it obvious that the decisions during the Elop era go in the opposite direction of what Nokia used to stand for and of profit or even survival.
http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
Yes, glory to Anonymous Cowards who dare to "expose" named users for having an opinion.
It sounds like you feel that you "won" in something. I should not hurt this powerful feeling; I guess many young people need it, for self-esteem or whatever. The reality may prove to be different, though,.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Ha ha, I have an N9. It is awesome.
You're digging out Ahonen from his grave? The guy who predicted the iPhone's demise in 2010?
The guy who is on a personal rampage against his former employer, Nokia?
What's next? Stallman reviewing Angry Birds for iPad?
I guess everything goes as long as it shows Microsoft in a bad light.
tend to only show phones they think might sell.
Yeah, no shit! Competent electronics manufacturers deliver products that meet that criterion.
Seriously, if Apple had hired some corporate spy to destroy Nokia, he couldn't have done a better job than this guy.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
MS should of focused more on mobile gaming in a phone form factor and launched with a larger Xbox focus and branding with well done game exclusives as away to stand out and draw gamers and then pop out some WP7 phone focused on business and the mid range phone with a less gaming optimized focus and lower specs.
Well, I've got a few years invested in Android usage, and a bunch of Android app-store apps, so I guess it'll take a lot to move me from Android. I'm sure the same goes for many other Android users (what else was that 10p an app promotion for over Christmas for, if not locking in users to the platform for a couple more years - over the next phone upgrade), and of course the same goes for iOS users.
So you would have to not already have a smartphone, or be really cheesed off with your current one, to want to look elsewhere for the next upgrade you get.
So the market for WinMo7.5 phones is mostly new smartphone users. And you are fighting against the iPhone, and Android devices that are available at a wide range of pricepoints. And people aren't saying bad things about those devices - whereas people remember their old Nokias and the old WinMo, and they associate the name and platform with feature phones at best, and stress and anger at worst. Couple that with lukewarm responses to the first WinMo7 release, and hardly anybody they know owning a WinMo phone so the recommendations they will receive will not be WinMo, and it's just going to be a really couple of tough years for Nokia.
It's sad about the N9 not being sold more widely and showing the board and shareholders where they should be going. Not too late to drop WinMo in my opinion.
WP7 has been on the market for over a year. In that time they've atacted 1.1 million FB users. Further up the thread you see there 99 million IOS FB users and 88 million Android FB users. So WP7 is around 1% of market. Like Linux on the desktop. It has no traction. On the other hand MS has a truck load of money in the bank and will keep on trying.
WP7 has been on the market for over a year. In that time they've atacted 1.1 million FB users. Further up the thread you see there 99 million IOS FB users and 88 million Android FB users. So WP7 is around 1% of market. Like Linux on the desktop. It has no traction. On the other hand MS has a truck load of money in the bank and will keep on trying.
I'm not sure you can really draw any reasonable figures from the Facebook numbers other than that the numbers in this article are just plain silly. Unlike Android and iOS, you don't need the Facebook app on WP7 to use Facebook. I've got a half dozen friends and family with WP7 devices. Two don't use FB at all, and I think I might be the only one who actually uses the FB app. (You can't "check in" friends with the native FB support, just yourself.)
Most sites I've seen estimate that between 1/6 and 1/8 of the WP7 users actually use the FB app, which puts the units in the hand of customers in the 7-10m range, which is consistent with the analyst estimates. I don't know what the source of those estimates are, but 1/6 is probably accurate in my experience.
Nokia hardware is still the best. Their high-end phones look amazing, have superb build quality and features you just can't get anywhere else.
Look at the N900:
Slide out backlit keyboard.
800x480x65k touch sensitive transreflective screen with front-facing camera and light sensor.
Best speakers on any phone.
Full USB 2.0 port.
720p output to TV or monitor.
32gb internal Flash.
Fully programmable IR, Bluetooth and Wifi.
Battery life of 2-3 days.
And this was back in 2009.
N9 has NFC.
E7 and Lumias have Clear Black Display which nothing comes near.
They just need to give users the OS they want. How dumb is the board to not realise that?
They gave it a registry hive? I see they're porting all the best parts of Windows.
Hey, I liked my E71 in its day! It was a Blackberry-lite, slimmer and without the lock-in. It was back in the days of when a phone was a phone, not a media centre. Much as I love my Galaxy S2, it make even the most ardent iPhone lover green with envy, I still miss the keyboard of the E71. Both of them sync contacts to Google so I can keep it as my back-up phone, and being old-style Nokia it can take a battering other phones can't. You can still pick up a cheap Nokia E71 off eBay, I'd rank it as a good student phone.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
There are executables you can run to accomplish the same thing, but they're manufacturer(and sometimes phone) specific, since they have different MFG codes. That said, it took my 5 minutes to root it through the registry.
It's that simple.
The phones are gorgeous. The OS is, at least on the surface, pretty good compared to iOS and Android.
What else could it be?
So, Elop, MS's installed "Service Pack" for Nokia is trying to deflect blame for their ho-hum OS onto someone else? Nothing new. I've only used Windows Phone in demo settings and I've been underwhelmed enough; its trying to be iOS in terms of "experience" and popularity but doesn't want to totally let go of the customization of Android. It seems like everything Windows Phone is doing, someone else is doing better unless you're just totally enamored with Microsoft products. I can see when Windows 8 gets here there will be a lot more convergence between Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8.
That said, I'm as pissed as any here about MS cash infusion and installed puppet diverting or just plain firing so many good Linux and QT developers while calling for an end to Maemo and MeeGo development. My old N900 here sits beside me and it probably doesn't have much life left. When I purchased it, I was looking forward to Harmattan and MeeGo to be installed upon it, followed by my next phone being one of a handful of high-end MeeGo devices. Maemo5 was to be the last "Geeks Only" OS, and that Harmattan/MeeGo would break triumphantly into the public view, with the kind of polish, UI and features that the iOS user could love, without compromising the Linux-loving hacker from adding his favorite repositories and apt-getting what was needed, or freely developing software for the thing without having to beg for a dev kit and agree to capitulate to giving censor rights to a major corporation. From what we see regarding the N9, this was certainly on target - it doesn't surprise me that people are going out of their way to find one despite Nokia's attempt to hide them in the mud, so to speak. Now, imagine if this happened a few years back as it would have done so without MS meddling in Nokia's affairs, and I'm guessing that MeeGo (7 or 8) by now could easily be one of the major, well known mobile operating systems, where it is just second nature to develop your app for iOS, Android, and MeeGo. I have to admit that the lack of "normal" apps affected me with the N900 - when MMORPGs made their mobile authenticators, they didn't consider porting them to Maemo platforms. However, it was looking that MeeGo would have no problem running Android applications, especially at the beginning of its presence before it was popular enough for big-name application developers to add MeeGo to its list of must-launch-upon mobile OSes. Especially considering that there were already working variants of Alien Dalvik that allowed you to run Android apps on a Maemo/MeeGo phone as close to native as they run on their their own, MeeGo could likely be one of the dominant OSes around.
Microsoft's cash flow gives them the ability to basically throw money at a sinking ship if it is in their best interest to do so to sink other, more vulnerable ships. They can afford to subsidize every Windows Phone sold if it means killing MeeGo and putting the world's biggest phone manufacturer under their thumb while, (as they may have planned) trying to get Windows Phones to market cheaper than everyone else. Unfortunately, people just aren't excited enough about Windows Phone which seems to be "meh" in every way so they're not taking the bait. While I'll never buy a Windows Phone just because of what they did to MeeGo, they're finding that even Joe Mobile doesn't want their product. I'm guessing that in time, if they can't manage to bring out some killer new feature with Win8 and WinPhone8 on the magnitude of "Your Phone is now an Xbox360 ! Install to disk on your home console and its uploaded to the Live Cloud, so you can play on your Windows Phone 8! Supports built in connections for 4 X360 controllers and voice with or without headset! Phone camera is Kinect-compliant on every WinPhone 8! Want to play on the big screen? Just use the included HDMI cable! All for free with your XLive subscription!", they'll probably fade into the ether as Windows Mobile did; likely even faster because they don't have an entrenched PDA and business phone community.
I'm not sure.... I'd rather not have a phone from the company that gave our computers wonderful features like "Clippy - the Office Assistant", the "Blue Screen of Death", "Windows Genuine Advantage", Bing, etc.
I'd rather not risk in an emergency situation that my phone locks up and the starts asking about whether it should install updates, and then if you accidently press the wrong button, it will take 5 minutes to install the updates, then reboot, and finally take 5 more minutes to "configure" the updates.
It's actually true. That's why Apple built their stores, isn't it?
Nice, maybe I will consider it when this HD2 is too far gone to keep around.
If Apple's great marketing is the only reason for the iPhone's success, surely bad salesmanship is the sole reason for WP7's failure.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
There is no way Apple is performing a full test on these apps. I would wager the intent is:
-Avoiding 'confusion' from intent of app vendor conflicting with Apple intent (nice phrasing for keeping competitors down)
-Having a way to prevent and respond to malware or otherwise disruptive technology that does more than just crash itself.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I can confirm this is absolutely the truth at my local Sprint store. They know nothing about Windows Phone 7. I had to show them that it had out-of-the-box syncing to Gmail contacts, email, and calendar (easier to setup than iPhone). Then they say they will wait for dual-core version. Of course WP7 runs very reasonably on single core but that doesn't matter -- they are all Android fan-boys who only think about number of cores and RAM, not about experience.
The Lumia is for sale now here in Finland, I should go buy a N9 tomorrow, need a new job phone.
The funny thing is, WP7 is so unlike just about every other Microsoft product that nobody has a fucking clue how to sell it. Who would ever believe that it is a slicker, hipper, and more polished interface than iOS? Not you. Not anyone else on /. Not even me if I hadn't used one in person.
It's a hell of a lot better/simpler/polished than Android, but Google already owns the "we don't market our OS we let manufacturers do it for us" space. So what is Nokia supposed to do? They lucked into this amazing product that they have no idea how to market.
Reason 5 - Windows Brand failure. The Nokia brand damage is recent and perhaps reversable but Microsoft's brand damage with Windows Mobile and Windows Phone has been sustained far longer and been far more comprehensive. Microsoft has good brands such as Xbox and Office Suite but its Windows Brand is weak and in mobile, it is poisonous.
Reason 9 - the OS is deficient. The Windows Phone OS can seem exciting when first seen with its 'Tiles' but on short usage it reveals how limited and unfinished it is. The tech reviews after using Windows Phone (and Lumia) are quite consistent that Windows Phone is not yet ready for prime time. It may become so in the future, but its not yet nearly competitive with advanced OS platforms out there.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
That gives Windows 7 phone one half of one percent of the Windows 7/IPhone/Android/BlackBerry 'ecosystem'.
Correction, all you know is: That gives Windows 7 phone Facebook App one half of one percent of the Windows 7/IPhone/Android/BlackBerry 'ecosystem'.
Perhaps someone will start selling completely open modern hardware without trying to lock it down. A bit like Raspberry Pi but in tablet & N900 form factors, consistent across price points ranging from $50 to $600. It would have Nemo or Kubuntu on hence no licensing costs.
Wifi works when it feels like it (and won't connect to a hidden SSID even if you define the AP in advance - even windows gets that right), GPS works when it wants to (and OVI maps is a clunky pile of shit).
Music player has no soft volume controls. Has FM radio & music recorder, but won't record from the radio.
Settings either not where you expect them, or split between two places - neither of which is where you'd expect them.
Camera crappy. Voice dial not very good & doesn't allow you to train it.
Limited customizability of home screen.
Nokia just can't do user facing apps.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."