Slashdot Mirror


iOS Vs. Android: Which Has the Crashiest Apps?

First time accepted submitter creativeHavoc writes "Forbes author Tomio Geron takes a look at data accrued by mobile app monitoring startup Crittercism. After looking at normalized data of crashes over the various mobile operating system versions he compares crash rates of apps on the two platforms. He also breaks it down further to look how the top apps compare across the competing mobile operating systems. The results may not be what you expect."

358 comments

  1. Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I've decided to opt for a Samsung Galaxy Nexus Android 4.0 device from SaskTel when I eventually get a smart phone (subject to new models coming out from Samsung or HTC and sold by SaskTel), but that's because it's a Java-based system I already have the tools to program, not because I'm concerned about app stability overall.

    In fact, the odds are I won't use the thing to run too many apps if what I need is already included: email/web, GPS mapping and routing, and Java applications (including one I'll be working on myself some time in the next year or so.)

    In the short term, I'll probably opt for a BASIC voice-and-text flip-phone of some kind, because I can't afford (nor stomach!) spending $600 on a PHONE whose MAIN purpose is to MAKE CALLS when I can get a $70 model that will take care of that primary function just fine for now.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by poetmatt · · Score: 0, Troll

      You have nobody to thank for this but a: the carriers and b: apple.

      It is they, who in collusion, raised the price of buying a phone to astronomical levels. Remember when the highest price for an unlocked phone was usually $200? What phone broke that trend? Iphone.

      It ended up making the carriers a ton of money even though the consumer gets screwed.

    2. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by StripedCow · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'll probably opt for a BASIC voice-and-text flip-phone of some kind

      What is the command in BASIC for calling someone?
      The closest I can think of is GOSUB, but I'm afraid that's not going to pull the trick.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    3. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by darjen · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's more than just bad apps. I got an iPad a couple weeks ago and safari has crashed several times. I never have more than 5 tabs open. I have also had Skype crash as well, but I don't know how well that code is written.

    4. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by dreold · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry, just not true. Before the iPhone, an unlocked Treo 650 cost about USD 650 (without contract). Some fashionable dumb or feature phones - like the Matrix Nokia chromed slider - retailed up to USD 1000 at the time - with contract and all.

    5. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Bohiti · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the short term, I'll probably opt for a BASIC voice-and-text flip-phone of some kind, because I can't afford (nor stomach!) spending $600 on a PHONE whose MAIN purpose is to MAKE CALLS when I can get a $70 model that will take care of that primary function just fine for now.

      Its a common perspective, but first of all most people (at least in the US) buy their phone subsidized with a contract renewal, so the price for even a top-tier phone is $200-$300. Second, for me personally after using smartphones for a few years, I view it as the most significant personal (non-work) computing device I use daily. I definitely use it more than my home PC and tablet combined, and can therefore justify spending top dollar on a quality "phone". I won't make assumptions about you, but I know many people who found, when they get a smartphone, that its main purpose is NOT to make calls.

    6. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by kqs · · Score: 5, Informative

      You have nobody to thank for this but a: the carriers and b: apple.

      It is they, who in collusion, raised the price of buying a phone to astronomical levels. Remember when the highest price for an unlocked phone was usually $200? What phone broke that trend? Iphone.

      Well, either that, or you didn't notice expensive phones before the iPhone, since unlocked Treos were $600 in 2006. But sure, you dislike Apple so it's probably Apple's fault.

    7. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have nobody to thank for this but a: the carriers and b: apple.

      It is they, who in collusion, raised the price of buying a phone to astronomical levels. Remember when the highest price for an unlocked phone was usually $200? What phone broke that trend? Iphone.

      It ended up making the carriers a ton of money even though the consumer gets screwed.

      And of course other vendors jumped on the chance to offer similar products for a lower price, right ? There are vendors out there getting killed and yet they don't offer smartphones for significantly lower prices in order to scoop up marketshare. That seems to indicate they can't undercut current prices.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    8. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Informative

      What? There have been >$1000 unlocked phones as long as I can remember. Hell, I remember the Nokia 8 and 9 series phones cost over a thousand bucks way back in 1997 or so...

    9. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CALL maybe?

    10. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msk · · Score: 1

      DEF FN
      FN

    11. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Funny

      What is the command in BASIC for calling someone?
      The closest I can think of is GOSUB, but I'm afraid that's not going to pull the trick.

      I think if you want to be pulling tricks, then you need to get people to be calling you. So you'll need to advertise your number with something like a "PRINT". And then repeat that lots of times to try and get past all the people flagging you on CL

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    12. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Soporific · · Score: 1

      Safari is crashing for me quite a bit recently with just one or two tabs open. In fact most of the other apps appear to be quite a bit more stable than Safari. I realize that rendering pages from many different authors is probably difficult, but it's happening pretty frequently now.

      ~S

    13. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

      but I know many people who found, when they get a smartphone, that its main purpose is NOT to make calls.

      That is so true. And let's not forget that, at least in Android's case, there's a built-in SIP stack so you can make cheap data calls. Of course, you could also run Skype on Android and iOS. There are a couple of VoIP providers (I understand that VOIPO is one) that let you use your SIP credential on your phone. In any event, even if your main thing is making voice calls, a smartphone can help save you money there.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    14. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by milkmage · · Score: 5, Informative

      but the most popular phone leading up to iphone was the RAZR (2004). initial price in the states was $600 bucks.

      http://gizmodo.com/270353/the-razr-taught-us-that-the-iphone-is-priced-juuust-right
      It was 2004 when the RAZR launched in the US as a high-end design clamshell. It was $600, with a $100 dollar rebate from Cingular. yes, soon after launch the price dropped precipitously much like smart phones now. today you can get an android or ios phone (NEW) for just about every price point from free to 800 bucks.

      oh, and don't forget the venerable StarTAC. 1996 - ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_StarTAC).. a primary selling point of which was support for OMG.. wait for it.. SMS. ...a free iphone 3GS is as capable as a laptop of the StarTAC era. Apple didn't set the bar, Motorola did - TWICE. Together the StarTAC and RAZR sold over 100M units.

      so poett, you either forgot or are too young to have ever known ;)

    15. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by iamhassi · · Score: 2

      I agree, safari crashes quite a bit, but it seems to be on particular websites. I'm on my iPhone now typing this, iPhone safari works great on /., but some ad heavy sites cause problems. From my experience it's usually smaller blogs and such, most of the Internet works fine. Besides there's several other browsers available for iPhone, opera probably the best IMHO

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    16. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      I understand the logic. But my reality is not as limited as that suggested by parent post.

      1) I kayak in estuaries ("you are in a maze of twisty channels that are all alike...") and bicycle in towns that I do not know well. I needed to get a personal GPS as soon as I could afford one.

      2) My primary computer is my netbook because I can take it everywhere so it sees much more activity than my desktop workstation. Having secure wifi access at any park bench or cafe table I set down to has become important to my life style.

      It turns out that my Android w/ Google's tracking app and Verizon wireless was the lowest cost hardware I could find that would give me both of these. And does so in one gadget-- very nice. Also, the built in camera is good enough to take reference photos (I do some 3D modeling), and the barcode reader app has proven to be a convenient way to do pre-purchase research when in Staples or at the grocery store. The wifi router function is good enough that I have dropped my wired connection and run my 3 computer household on it. Cost of basic phone service and 7 GB/mo (enough for my needs) is lower than the combined cost of my old cell phone and Comcast subscriptions.

      Oh yeah, I sometimes make phone calls with the thing. For that, it is... adequate. I would probably be happier if I got a bluetooth ear dangle but I cannot justify the added cost and hassle of yet another gadget.

      There are a tonne of apps and gizmos available for this thing and I guess that's fine for the kids. I ignore them; not part of my lifestyle.

      --
      Will
    17. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Oh, sure, if I want to lock in to a $150+/month contract for 3 years to get unlimited local voice, text, data, and 10 hours of North America long distance/month, I can get the same device for under $100. But that's one HELL of a contract to lock in to in order to save a few bucks now.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    18. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think the prices are unreasonable -- it's an extremely compact device with a lot of FLASH memory, a screen resolution better than many laptops, and better battery life than most laptops. The Apple devices sold by SaskTel are marginally cheaper in many cases, more expensive in others, depending on which model you get.

      But for me, the main purpose is to develop for the phone, not to use it as a phone, so when you add in the cost of a Mac and software to program for iOS devices, the Android platform wins by a HUGE margin.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    19. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      If it's an option, I might even just by the Android device and use it with WiFi for testing rather than actually signing up to a service contract. On the flip side, it's the long distance charges that hurt, so I decided in the end that I'll stick with a voice-data-text cell plan for $60+fees+tax per month, and spring the $100 to have another land line installed for "the office phone." Long distance on a land line is barely HALF the price for UNLIMITED calling in North America!

      I say again: Every cell provider out there is GOUGING THE CUSTOMER ON LONG DISTANCE. Big time. I checked the competition before opting to continue with SaskTel service for the business.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    20. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This graphic is worse than useless. Here is a good debunking of it from a stats focused blog I first saw it on.

      http://junkcharts.typepad.com/junk_charts/2012/02/a-data-mess-outduels-the-pie-chart-disaster-for-our-attention.html

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    21. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Bohiti · · Score: 2

      Yeah but are you going to get the plan anyways? It does lock you in, but if you were going to get the service, there's no reason to not sign the contract just out of principle. And you can get cheaper plans. Me, for example, have organized a 5-line family plan on Sprint and pay what divides up to about $40 per phone for unlimited everything smartphones.

    22. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's "turning tricks".

      Fuck, this is like the money laundering conversation from office space.

    23. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard

      I had this in '04 before iPhones. This was $175 with a contract extension and I thought that was outrageous.

      But it was a conversation starter and it was cool to listen to streaming audio on the e-train to work.

    24. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by hitmark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I find myself wondering how many of the Razr owners also carried a iPod. and that when the iPhone launched, they replaced two devices with one. I suspect iTunes would make such a transition mostly painless, sync the iPod one last time, then sync the iPhone and be on your way.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    25. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Funny thing is that i think Nokia got on the bad side of US carriers because they included a SIP client around 2k, and refused to let said carriers disable the feature via carrier custom firmwares.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    26. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by mgblst · · Score: 2

      Fuck off, this is not your website. Go somewhere else.

      There is nothing wrong with wanting to use a plain phone, but bragging about not wanting to get the most out of a device is completely not-slashdot.

    27. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by inasity_rules · · Score: 1

      Opera mobile has been pretty stable for me.. Give it a try.

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    28. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      Probably quite a few, since Apple did attempt to work with Motorola in the wake of the RAZR's success to make an "Apple-like phone" with the ROKR - which was a massive flop, but it was an early attempt to get music onto a phone in a more seamless manner than the unintuitive phone GUIs of the time.

      I'm sure one of the data points on the graph of decisions will have been "how many RAZR users also carry an iPod with them?"

    29. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      POKE

    30. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by i_ate_god · · Score: 1

      my nokia n90=8gb cost $650

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    31. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      But for me, the main purpose is to develop for the phone, not to use it as a phone, so when you add in the cost of a Mac and software to program for iOS devices, the Android platform wins by a HUGE margin.

      Unless you mean developing for your own phone in which case maybe. But last year the sales of the Apple market were 7x the size of the Android, Blackberry and Nokia market combined. So if it is commercial software development then you have to consider sales potential.

    32. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I paid 600 USD for my first Motorola StarTAC WITH a contract. I haven't paid over 200 USD for a phone since. This includes my iPhone and my Motorola Droid.
       
      So shut the fuck up and educate yourself. It's a shame that we have someone who isn't a total n00b around here making up this kind of shit. Either you don't know, you don't care to know or you're just trolling. Whichever it is, you're a disgrace.

    33. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Most cell providers only have national plans, long distance is free. How are they gouging?

    34. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bad apps crash -- sure. But *worse* apps may appear to keep working while storing up later trouble for the user.

      Whenever I see a list of software fault types with "crash bug" at the apex, I cringe. When I led a software team, I had to de-program developers who were trained that crashing is the worst possible thing an app can do. It isn't. There are many worse ones, such as leading a user to trust false data, exposing sensitive information, and losing or corrupting a user's work. The worse thing about a crash in the absence of data loss or long recovery time is that it undermines user confidence. It's often possible for a well-architected app to crash (due to programming faults of course) with no serious implications for the user.

      Crashing per se isn't a problem. It's a *symptom*. This is important! I've caught developers "fixing crash bugs" without addressing the real problems: failure to program defensively around unexpected conditions like bad input or inability to secure resources like memory or file references. I've seen super-general exception handlers buried way down on the stack which catch every possible exception and quietly attempt to restore the semblance of operation, even though they can't possibly know whether the application is in a consistent state, or whether it is holding orphaned resources. Programmers do this because they've been inculcated with the false notion that crashes per se are terrible things. This leads to hiding the symptoms errors rather than fixing the errors themselves. Hiding the cause of a crash increases the probability of faulty information, loss of data, and shipping a release with serious defects.

      So don't treat crashing as a problem, but as an alert signal. A crash in itself is benign, an honest recognition of failure if you will.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    35. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I don't know what "North America long distance" is some sort of international calling plan. In which case you might want to use a gateway where international calls run a few cents per minute.

      But Verizon for example puts between $15/mo and $18/mo (24 mo) into a higher end smart phone and charges you $350 to terminate early (-$10 / mo). Your lockin represents a fair estimate of their costs.

    36. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Motorola had a luxury dumb phone called the "Aura" that cost about $2000 USD. It was solid metal, had a round LCD and a spin open design.

    37. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      As in a lot of things, it depends. If I already have a Mac platform, it doesn't cost me anything extra to develop iOS apps for my iP[ao]d. If I have neither platform, then it will cost something to develop for either. Yes, PC laptops can be cheaper than Mac laptops, but if you buy smartly, you can build a Hackintosh on the same hardware. As such, I don't see a "huge" margin for either.

    38. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by russotto · · Score: 2

      What is the command in BASIC for calling someone?

      PRINT "ATDV12024561414" should do the trick

    39. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Skype app crashes all the time, and it's almost always iOS's fault. If you go through the diagnostic logs, you'll see that almost every time that Skype "crashed" it's because it's either using "too much memory" or because it "didn't respond fast enough."

      Both of which are enough for iOS to just flat-out kill the app.

      And that's half of why apps on IOS "crash" all the time: iOS kills "non-responsive" apps with a ridiculous floor for what's considered "non-responsive." Imagine if Windows killed Firefox every time it started (Not Responding) - that's iOS in a nutshell.

      The other reason apps crash all the time on iOS is because they're written in Objective C. And while there are API tools to make memory management easier, it's still far easier to shoot yourself in the foot and seg fault with Objective C than it is with Java, where the worst you can do is get a NullPointerException or an ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException.

      All this boils down to is this: iOS apps crash all the time because Apple made a very crash-prone OS. Android is designed better. Simple as that.

    40. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Consider taking your iPad back, it may be faulty. I've used an iPad or iPad 2 most days since they were launched a couple of years ago and can't recall Safari ever crashing on me, so I'd be worried if it happened multiple times in two weeks.

      Skype, on the other hand, is a buggy piece of crap on any platform.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    41. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Soporific · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I think I will.

      ~S

    42. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were kayaking, I wouldn't be taking a normal smartphone with me. Too much risk of getting it wet.

    43. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Prices of smartphones don't drop at retail. There's massive price collusion in the American market.

    44. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Apple is apple, but in every other industry competition drives prices of everyone else down. Look at tablets, where you see Staples having clearance on Tegra 2 tablets for $200, and Asus announcing at CES they'll release a 7" Tegra 3 tablet for $250. In contrast smartphones retail for $600+ in America. Contrast that to China, where the Xiaomi 1.5 GHz dual-core smartphone retailed for $310 all the way back in October, and the dual-core 1.2 GHz variant was even cheaper.

      There's massive price collusion in the cell phone market in America. Retail prices never go down, and bringing in your own phone does not alter the price of your monthly bill.

    45. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      ZipLock freezer bags, double bagged for extra safety. Take a couple into the store when you are trying out their phones to find a touch screen that works for you under plastic.

      Plus, the sales guy will find it disconcerting, especially if you don't tell him why. That's usually a good thing.

      --
      Will
    46. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Skype app crashes all the time, and it's almost always iOS's fault. If you go through the diagnostic logs, you'll see that almost every time that Skype "crashed" it's because it's either using "too much memory" or because it "didn't respond fast enough."

      I wouldn't call that iOS' "fault". Mobile devices have very limited resources. This isn't like a desktop machine where you've got several gigabytes of memory to play with. If an application is badly behaved and it uses too much memory, that has an effect on the rest of the system. There's only so much memory to go around. Also, if using lots of memory becomes normalised, there's pressure to add more memory to newer models, which will result in lower battery life.

      I'm an app developer, and if I ever see that one of my projects is killed for not responding fast enough, I know that there's something very, very wrong somewhere. Usually it's a sign that a junior developer decided to do something processor or network intensive synchronously on the main thread, which is a big mistake. You do what is necessary to get an interface up, and you push everything expensive into the background and update the UI when it finishes. There's no excuse for an application not responding quickly enough, it's easy to do.

      If you really think Skype is not at fault, how do you explain the fact that it crashes all the time on other platforms as well?

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    47. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      The Skype app crashes all the time, and it's almost always iOS's fault. If you go through the diagnostic logs, you'll see that almost every time that Skype "crashed" it's because it's either using "too much memory" or because it "didn't respond fast enough."

      So it's actually Skype's fault. iOS issues low memory warnings before it kills apps. Well written apps respond to that.

      Imagine if Windows killed Firefox every time it started (Not Responding) - that's iOS in a nutshell.

      Maybe the programmers would put more effort into making FireFox more responsive. Actually, sometimes I wish OS X would do that to Safari. I'm seeing far too many beach balls at the moment.

      The other reason apps crash all the time on iOS is because they're written in Objective C. And while there are API tools to make memory management easier, it's still far easier to shoot yourself in the foot and seg fault with Objective C than it is with Java, where the worst you can do is get a NullPointerException or an ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException.

      NullPointerException and ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException are both equally as bad as seg faults. They both indicate severe programming bugs and it doesn't mean they are not serious just because the program can catch them and attempt to carry on.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    48. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by darjen · · Score: 1

      It works well enough most of the time that I don't think that is necessary. Plus I got it used off Craigslist... Though if I had to the guy did give me his receipt.

    49. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by narcc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So if it is commercial software development then you have to consider sales potential.

      That's the myth, of course. The reality is that less than 1% of iOS developers break $1000 in app sales.

      This is in contrast with Blackberry developers, 13% of which pull in more than $100k in app sales.

      Which platform would you rather develop for?

    50. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but with the major carriers you are going to pay the same amount per month whether you bring your own device or not.

      So you might as well get the "free" device.

      And it's two years, not three. There might be some crazy carrier doing three year contracts but it's definitely a minority.

    51. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Don't want a smart phone? Get a John's phone.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    52. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Jord · · Score: 2

      And your statistical backing for that statement is?

      Even flashlight apps bring in more than $1,000 over the life of the application.

    53. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      In the short term, I'll probably opt for a BASIC voice-and-text flip-phone of some kind, because I can't afford (nor stomach!) spending $600 on a PHONE whose MAIN purpose is to MAKE CALLS when I can get a $70 model that will take care of that primary function just fine for now.

      If the main purpose of it were to make calls then such devices would never have evolved to where they are now. It's pretty clear you're living in the past, even if you consider it just to be a communications device there are far more mediums for communication than the old feature-phones were ever capable of (email, skype, facebook, twitter, etc...). But of course they aren't even just communications devices these days, they are also entertainment devices, capable of high resolution imagery and HD video, they have large storage for music and the major platforms have a multitude of games available. Then there's all the productivity applications available.

      But i suppose if you're not going to get with the times we'll all just stay off your lawn grandpa.

    54. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya sorry, that guys a fucking moron.

    55. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The one that will still be around in 2 years?

    56. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I'd be curious what that looked like a decade ago. There usually is a lot of money in niches of a legacy platform. I'm not sure you are, excusing the pun, comparing apples to apples.

    57. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Which platform would you rather develop for?

      The one that's not withering on the vine. I'd hope that all those Blackberry developers at least have exit plans just in case, even if they are still profitable and don't need them just yet

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    58. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      NullPointerException and ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException are both equally as bad as seg faults.

      Funny you should say that. Know what happens if you dereference null in Objective C? Well, "send a message to nil," but it's the same concept. The answer: the method silent returns 0/false/nil (depending on what the return signature is). That's it. No exception and no warning.

      So if you were wondering about why iOS apps crash so frequently, it really is because of the language they're written in and the platform they target.

    59. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Objective-C (manual reference counting) crashes more than Java (garbage collected). News at 11.

    60. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      You have nobody to thank for this but a: the carriers and b: apple.

      It is they, who in collusion, raised the price of buying a phone to astronomical levels. Remember when the highest price for an unlocked phone was usually $200? What phone broke that trend? Iphone.

      Well, either that, or you didn't notice expensive phones before the iPhone, since unlocked Treos were $600 in 2006. But sure, you dislike Apple so it's probably Apple's fault.

      Actually Apple didnt, Android did.

      Disclaimer: I live in a nation where I can buy a phone outright and am not forced into a contract, so the mentioned prices are for a handset outright.

      An Iphone is still $900, Winmo phones like the TYTN were $900 before but today the Iphone is still $900. Android bought competition to the market, not only competition they leveraged increased buying power to decrease costs and passed this saving onto the purchaser. Apple may be able to command lower costs, but they sure as hell aren't pass that on to their users. An Iphone remains $900, Android phones cost $500 (WP7 phones too, but that's mainly due to lack of demand).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    61. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      yep, the nokia n95 had excellent sip functionality built in, it was like making regular calls but to a sip address.

      The phone was really popular everywhere except the us, likely because of said sip functionality, this was around 2007.

    62. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by noh8rz2 · · Score: 1

      out of the 8 bb developers, one pulled in more than $100k? was it angry birds?

    63. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      I live in the US and if your on T-Mobile, you can buy a phone outright also. They will even tell you how much of your bill is designated to pay off your loan if you decide to take their interest free loan for the phone.

      I was just looking at phones yesterday to upgrade my son's phone. The Galaxy S II is $550, and you can get a perfectly fine Android phone for $250 without a contract. Par of the high price of Android phones is that everyone want the latest and greatest phone, which will be noticeably more expense than many of the phones that are perfectly fine. Everyone wants to be an early adopter, and they don't realize it.

    64. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by mikestew · · Score: 1

      Consider taking your iPad back, it may be faulty. I've used an iPad or iPad 2 most days since they were launched a couple of years ago and can't recall Safari ever crashing on me, so I'd be worried if it happened multiple times in two weeks.

      I, too, have had an iPad/iPad 2 since the first day they were sold. Safari crashing a couple of times in a two week period is not something I'd consider to be unusual or a cause for return. Open it back up, it remembers all open pages, so it's a minor annoyance.

    65. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Actually after doing more digging, what I've decided to do is:

      1. Have a second landline installed for $100 + technician time. This gives me access to UNLIMITED North American long distance for about $80-90/month, not just 10 hours of daytime talk per month. This could be a HUGE savings when I eventually have to deal with a remote client. Buy another phone for a whopping $50-120 outright for the landline.
      2. Pick up a $45 flip-phone (there are three suitable models from my telco in that price range), which cost about $40-45/month for UNLIMITED local talk time and text. The data package is only about an additional $15/month -- data isn't that expensive here in Saskatchewan -- it's daytime talk that costs unless you sign up for the right package, and as a business phone, most of it's use will be for daytime calls.
      3. Defer an Android device until I can afford it. While I'd like to do a Java client that runs on Android, I need a generic Java application before I worry about porting it to smartphone and tablet devices (especially tablets.) To be honest, I'm more interested in having fun learning how to program Android than having any real business justification for doing so at this time.

      When I DO get the Android device, there's a good chance it'll be a tablet, not a phone, as I'll already have a phone. Whether I look into tethering or make do with WiFi access will depend on what I learn about the state of the market and telco support at that future time.

      Only ONE Apple model is cheaper than the Android options with SaskTel. They're charging a premium price for those devices due to customer demand. For me the killer is the fact that I'd need to buy a Mac and Apple software to program an iOS device. I'm not willing to make that kind of investment to service the walled garden of a company whose patent lawsuits are distasteful to me (to say the least.) I don't want to give Apple ANY of my money until they smarten up and start working to develop markets instead of litigating competition off the field.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    66. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify, the long distance package for the landline is $45/month, but I have to include the basic service, caller id, and answering service fees in the total.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    67. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Gee, I thought if anyone "owned" Slashdot, it was CmdrTaco (retired), not you.

      Just because you drink the smart phone kool-aid doesn't mean people can't discuss other options and ways of doing things.

      What a pity you see discussion as anything but sharing ideas.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    68. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      No there isn't several browsers available for the iPhone, there's one. Every other one is just a WebView with a fancy UI. Every browser will crash equally on crappy sites.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    69. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Kalriath · · Score: 2

      The problem is that in some cases iOS doesn't reclaim the memory. I have to force reboot my iPad once every week or two as it leaks memory to the point that some slightly heavier applications (like Fruit Ninja) can't even start without being given a "kill -9" (and that's what iOS does by the way).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    70. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by tsa · · Score: 1

      That's because the newest phones have desirable features like a good screen and decent battery life.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    71. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Which platform would you rather develop for?

      Which ever platform has the sales potential and the target audience for the app I envisage. Really what kind of a lame question is that. If you are going to make decisions like which platform to develop on based on the percentage of apps pulling in money I guarantee you'll likely be in the percentage that doesn't. It shows you lack forethought for your product.

      Pick a specific example. You're going to code a killer email app. Do you target Android which except for gmail has a default email app that sucks and few good alternatives in the app store? Or do you target the blackberry, a device which basically a phone bolted onto a thin smooth email client?

      You release the next awesome game for teenage girls to waste their dollars on. Do you attempt to become a millionaire by targeting the business users?

      The only thing scarier than the content of your post is its current moderation.

    72. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Funny you should say that. Know what happens if you dereference null in Objective C? Well, "send a message to nil," but it's the same concept. The answer: the method silent returns 0/false/nil (depending on what the return signature is). That's it. No exception and no warning.

      That, my friend, is not a bug, it is a language feature. A very well thought-through feature that makes programming for Objective-C a lot, lot simpler. Sending a message to a nil object is not an exception; it is something that happens very regular. It's like "free" or "realloc" in Standard C: A NULL argument there is a regular occurence.

    73. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by wrook · · Score: 1

      Can we mod this up to 11?

    74. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by shiftless · · Score: 1

      NO ANSWER

    75. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SHELL "start tel:2025551212" :)

    76. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by randomsearch · · Score: 1

      Safari crashes on my iPhone quite often. I don't see any correlation with tabs, looks more like a parsing or rendering bug.

      RS

    77. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by yoshi_mon · · Score: 1

      Fear of failure and it is not only for programmers. It is everywhere. It is also why good managers are rare.

      --

      Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
    78. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      I recently worked with code that had this exact problem.

      The first problem was that keeping the system running had an incredibly high priority, as specified by the contract with our customer. The second problem was sprinkling catch(...) throughout the code whenever there was a crash (this was C++), which then logged a message and rethrew the exception, rarely trying to do anything about the problem. The third problem was with Microsoft's compiler, which will turn segmentation faults into null pointer exceptions if you want.

      Thus, we had null pointers in our code, and instead of crashing where these were found, we threw exceptions that were only caught and logged in random places. Finding the cause of a segmentation fault is hard enough if you just core dump on the spot -- at least you know what pointer had the null value and where it was accessed, but you may not know how that pointer became null in the first place -- but imagine trying to find the cause when your only indication is misdirection and redirection in log files, which at most give a partial stack trace.

      So, how did we solve this dilemma? We added more catch(...) statements and log messages everywhere, of course! Because "we can't let the system crash" said my managers.

      And, in the meantime, the system keeps chugging along, getting more an more flaky over time, with very bizarre behaviors and inexplicable data values. Until it finally crashes anyway, that is.

    79. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by wannabgeek · · Score: 1

      <sarcasm>
      Umm... may be you should uninstall Flash. After all, God decreed that everything bad with Macs and the web was all Flash's fault. There is nothing like that with HTML 5.
      </sarcasm>

      --
      I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
    80. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Ye deities, is my time memory that corrupted?!

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    81. Re:Bad apps crash. News at 11. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the 100 song Rokr.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  2. Long Story Short by Alicat1194 · · Score: 5, Informative

    iOS crashes more than Android (for those who don't feel like trawling through the (not brilliantly formatted) article.

    --
    You can learn a lot about a person if you just take the time to inject them with sodium pentathol
    1. Re:Long Story Short by StripedCow · · Score: 4, Funny

      iOS crashes more than Android

      Can we sue them?

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    2. Re:Long Story Short by Swannie · · Score: 1

      Yes, buy a whopping 0.75% according to the bar graph. I'd call that's statistically equal.

      --
      :q!
    3. Re:Long Story Short by MtHuurne · · Score: 4, Informative

      0.75 percent point. The relative difference is quite large.

    4. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And also, anyone buying that is a f**** idiot.

    5. Re:Long Story Short by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      iOS crashes more than Android (for those who don't feel like trawling through the (not brilliantly formatted) article.

      * for apps which use Crittercism's crash reporting component. That's important since we do not know which apps those are and if they are representative for the whole software catalog for the devices. Only Apple has all the crash reports across all iOS apps (and even then only for people who haven't disabled the sending of crash reports.) Maybe the jailbreak guys could compile some interesting stats, since they've released a tool to upload your crashlogs (Cdevreporter) to them to aid in jail breaking.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    6. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      And also, anyone denying that iOS is wondeful and perfect and magical is a f**** idiot. ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOSTEVE

      FTFY

    7. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iOS crashes more than Android (for those who don't feel like trawling through the (not brilliantly formatted) article.

      Skype for iOS 5 might have skewed the stats somewhat. Immensely popular and crashes continuously.

    8. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and that's because Apple recommends against exception handling as a way to implement your algorithms (sorry, this doesn't make much sense for non-programmers) while in Java you're forced to catch exceptions. Personally I like the Apple model most because as consumer I prefer an app crashing than becoming unresponsive or worse and as developer I dislike having a jungle of try/catches.

      Anyway, if you want to be on neutral ground, you should rather ask which platform has more apps that actually do their job.

    9. Re:Long Story Short by swillden · · Score: 5, Informative

      Personally I like the Apple model most because as consumer I prefer an app crashing than becoming unresponsive or worse

      As a consumer, I notice that I see far fewer unresponsive apps on my Nexus than I did with my iPhone 4. This is probably partly due to the fact that the Android OS is so quick to intervene and offer to forcibly close an app -- which turns an unresponsive app into a crash and would contribute to Android apps crashing more than iOS apps.

      as developer I dislike having a jungle of try/catches.

      Then structure your code so you don't have a jungle of try/catch blocks. If your exception handling code is complex, it's often a sign that the code in general is too complex and needs refactoring. It's a code smell.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is much worse, Android runs on low spec. hardware, has a wider deployment now and apps crash there due to programming bugs and not OS caveats.

    11. Re:Long Story Short by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      You would have to opt into error reporting in iOS to allow Apple to collect that info. It is not enabled by default.

      This report isn't particularly useful since it only represents a small subset of those apps that leverage Crittercism. It says nothing about those that don't, or what percentage of typical apps on a phone this data represents.

    12. Re:Long Story Short by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      My strategy on this is pretty simple. I refuse to put any try catches in a function (obviously not talking about Java here) until it is written and does roughly what it is supposed to do. Then I test is as well as I can and when it crashes unexpectedly I FIX THE CODE. Then when I've done that as much as I can stand, I might throw (get it?) In a try at a critical point to keep the program from crashing but I only do that if I feel there is a reasonable chance the application might fall over due to something that I completely can't anticipate.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    13. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slightly longer, but infinitely more correct version

      Apps on iOS that use some random 3rd party crash report tool crash
      more often the Apps on android that use some random 3rd party crash report tool

      And they are talking about app launches, not individual apps, so a single really popular
      app that crashes will inflate the percentages.

    14. Re:Long Story Short by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 0, Troll

      I expect Microsoft has probably got a patent on 'crashes more often than Linux-based operating systems' so maybe they could.

    15. Re:Long Story Short by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, they've made it quite clear with their motto: "It *just* works".

    16. Re:Long Story Short by dwightk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right... because what really matters is the total number of crashes reported, not the crashes per application launch.

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    17. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you talking about suing Apple for making iOS crash, or suing the article author for pointing out that iOS crashes?

    18. Re:Long Story Short by iamhassi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      0.75 percent point. The relative difference is quite large.

      Can't be that bad, otherwise why would 94% of iPhone users buy another iPhone but only 47% of android users would buy another android? Honestly I don't care if apps on one phone crash 0.75% more than on the other, the real question is would you buy another model of that phone? If the answer is yes then obviously the crashes aren't bad enough to want to switch.

      Sent from my iPhone

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    19. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newsflash, this just in: Mactards don't consider brands other than Apple; Android users are open to the possibility of anther device being superior.

    20. Re:Long Story Short by MrHanky · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Probably because 94% of iPhone owners desperately feel they need to upgrade, whereas 53% of Android owners are happy with what they've got.

    21. Re:Long Story Short by hitmark · · Score: 3, Funny

      i think you forgot a (barely) there.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    22. Re:Long Story Short by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Also, once your into the ITMS ecosystem it is hard to get back out...

      I wonder how much this will change with the introduction of media content into the Android Market tho.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    23. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never met an Android owner who's truly happy with what he's got.

    24. Re:Long Story Short by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Maybe because it's all just lies, damn lies and statistics. I know a lot of people who switched from the iPhone to various Android phones and not a single one of them has switched back. I'm sure I could make up, sorry I mean "compile" some statistics to prove that.

      The whole Android vs. iPhone thing is stupid anyway. One is an OS, the other is a phone. This article is even more stupid because I'm sure some of the crappier Android phones crash more than those with quality drivers and a well put together ROM, so if anything the frequency of crashes on a good Android device is probably lower than the figures they gathered suggest, but of course they didn't bother to break it down enough to tell.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re:Long Story Short by Y-Crate · · Score: 1

      Also, once your into the ITMS ecosystem it is hard to get back out...

      I wonder how much this will change with the introduction of media content into the Android Market tho.

      I guess all Android apps are free, and those non-DRM-ed AAC files Apple has been selling for years are magically not-portable.

    26. Re:Long Story Short by hitmark · · Score: 1

      I said hard, not impossible. For instance, i wonder how many iTunes users know exactly where the program stores the audio files on the local computer (if they even use iTunes these days and do not just get it directly via wlan or mobile data).

      And there is a continual complaint that Android users are less spendy on apps.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    27. Re:Long Story Short by jo_ham · · Score: 1, Informative

      Why do they need to know? (they're in the "Music" folder in the top level of their Home folder - such a hard to find location, but anyway), they can just drag the files out of iTunes onto another part of the drive if they can't find that folder. If they can get to the file in iTunes to play it then they can copy it to another drive or folder easily. (On Windows I believe it's under the "my documents > music" folder, but it's been a while since I looked. It's somewhere obvious anyway).

      They could also burn them to CD if they wanted (either as an audio CD or as a raw data CD/DVD with the aac/mp3 files on it - iTunes offers both options).

      It's hardly a massive hurdle to leaving the ecosystem.

    28. Re:Long Story Short by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      I have - it's all about the handset.

      I know two Galaxy IIS owners who are very happy with their phones. I also know one who isn't.

      Let's not pretend that either platform is devoid of good experiences.

      (Disclaimer: I use iOS on a 3GS)

    29. Re:Long Story Short by nomadic · · Score: 1

      "iOS crashes more than Android"

      The article promised us a "surprising" result. Where is it?

    30. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't be that bad, otherwise why would 94% of iPhone users buy another iPhone but only 47% of android users would buy another android?

      Out of 216 people surveyed... yeah, that's totally statistically significant.

    31. Re:Long Story Short by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      This report is about as useful as polls.

      It's normal that you only have statistical data of a small sample of the group that you are trying to make a general statement about.
      That doesn't invalidate the results of the report but just means that you have to take them with a grain of salt.

      Unless, of course, the result is absolutely not what you expected, then it's easier to just say that the report is useless.

    32. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iOS crashes more than Android (for those who don't feel like trawling through the (not brilliantly formatted) article.

      That's a feature and just how cult leader Jobs wanted it. Android applications are not allowed to crash, because Apple have a patent on memory fault failure functionality, despite decades of UNIX and windows prior examples.

    33. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless Crittercism is what causes higher app crash rates...

    34. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh man, I hope I never have to work on your code. That is an awful, awful, awful (I could go on) approach to preventing crashes. The fact that you say "something that I can't anticipate" already tells me you aren't thinking hard enough about edge cases before you begin coding. If you test your code enough, you can just about anticipate anything. This doesn't mean you can make something 100% crash proof, but if you can fix a crash with try catch, then chances are pretty high that you can probably fix it by fixing your code. The number one step to fixing crashes is understanding "why" the crash is occurring. Sure you can change some code around (+-1 when arrays are out of bounds etc..) and then hey all of the sudden it doesn't crash anymore. However, if you never understand the *root cause*("why") then you are probably putting duct tape over a bullet wound. It's likely you won't understand the full implications of your code and you overlooked the real problem(internal bleeding in the gunshot analogy, or why the array is empty or incorrectly iterated in the other example).

    35. Re:Long Story Short by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      This data is so pathetic that it's hard to believe Forbes published this kind of trash. How many crashed were reported per app launched would be a better measure one would think.

      Also, the Facebook app is a piece of crap on the iPhone. If the Android version is half better, it could skew the whole numbers on the study given the popularity of this particular app alone. Is that an indication of anything? Yes, Facebook doesn't know how to write an iOS app.

      All in all, nothing to see here, please move along.

    36. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all those video files (TV shows, movies and what not) are completely DRM free, too, right?

      Oh wait, you have to buy another $100 device to plug into your TV.

      Oh wait, they removed that feature, and now you just have an expensive Netflix player.

    37. Re:Long Story Short by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      I gather you either haven't done much coding in a professional capacity or you haven't done anything much more complex than making sure your jquery fade in works most of the time. In the real world you have bosses that have no real clue what it takes to code an application, think anything can be do e in at most twice the time it takes to say it and thinks it should be done yesterday. It is laughable that you believe you have the time to think through every possible code path and permutation and code the edge cases away. Laughable. Come back in 10 years and we'll laugh at your ignorance.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    38. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that_s_the_joke.jpg

    39. Re:Long Story Short by Xeranar · · Score: 1

      It isn't random & they sell their services to many large app makers. So statistically it is representative of larg and stable apps that still crash. The % of crashes are low but iOS skews higher because as the article says, iOS has a longer update process for apps that means bugs sit longer than Android.

      It is more a business practice issue than anything else.

    40. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel sorry for you if you really are a professional programmer and that is how your company works. I know I wouldn't want my applications made by a company who's management didn't understand the development process, and I certainly wouldn't want to work for them. See, where I work, we have this thing called Quality Assurance. Those people are paid solely to try and crash the app. You get a build in their hands for long enough, and chances are they are going to put it through just about anything the users will.

      Also when we estimate level of effort(i.e. time it takes), it's based on what the *developer* says plus how long it needs to be in QA's hands. That way we avoid the "i don't care how good it is as long as it's done" mentality your company seems to have. As I stated before, you can't make something crash proof, but you can certainly get close as the article above even states, "when you get to the top apps, Android’s lower app crash rate than iOS makes less of a difference because they are both well below 1%."

      Since you questioned my qualifications I'll just tell you that I am a Sr. Software Engineer at a company that makes many of those top apps that crash less than 1% of the time. We take the time to fix bugs properly, time that you seem to think the professional development world lacks. (If you had ever done any work for Fortune 500's or Governments you would know nothing moves slower, too much red tape, plenty of time to make things work with the right staff.) It sounds to me like you need to find a new job my friend. However, you may want to improve your error handling mentality and easily aggravated temper first.

    41. Re:Long Story Short by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Crittercism is funded by Google ventures.

    42. Re:Long Story Short by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Mac Format in the UK's answer to OS X not having a DLNA server - spend 99 quid on an Apple TV instead of spend nothing and download Serviio.

    43. Re:Long Story Short by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Smartphone apps are generally cheap.

      It's that copy of Fast Five that's expense.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    44. Re:Long Story Short by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      I dumped an iPhone for my current Android.

      If I am for some reason unhappy with it, another iPhone is clearly not the answer.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    45. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all your movies, TV shows, and e-books that you've ever purchased go bye-bye.

      Burn to CD? Only if the ebook lets you. Friend of mine who's an i fan called just a couple weeks ago bitching about how he COULD NOT burn his legally purchased e-book for his dad's car CD player. Now he has to lug around *ANOTHER* device just to listen to his e-book instead of just leaving burned CDs in his built in car disc changer. And he has to go run around clicking finding the media player and / or the ebook in question AND remember where he was.

    46. Re:Long Story Short by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      iOS crashes more than Android (for those who don't feel like trawling through the (not brilliantly formatted) article.

      That's what the article claims. But the fact seems to be instead "A company producing crash reporting software measured more crashes in iOS applications than in Android applications". Not _quite_ the same. First, it's application crashes. No information about how often iOS and Android crash themselves. Second, we don't know what conditions are reported as "crash" and what percentage of crashes are reported - I'd assume that if a crash in an Android app takes the crash reporter down as well, then that wouldn't be counted. What if an app hangs without crashing?

      There is just an awful lot of unknowns. And that's just the known unknowns. There are probably unknown unknowns as well, but we don't know that.

    47. Re:Long Story Short by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

      This report is about as useful as polls.

      It's normal that you only have statistical data of a small sample of the group that you are trying to make a general statement about.

      Exactly. So the question is is the sample representative ? Impossible to say without knowing who participated. If you polled 100.000 americans the results might be questionable if the majority of those were living in a homeless shelter, are prison inmates or the ultra rich. The sample is everything. In this case the results might be skewed by the fact it's companies that installed a crash-tracker, meaning it might be people who already have trouble with stability, or it might be predominantly popular among Android developer shops who only develop for iOS on the side or of course the results may be completely valid. Little to no information about the sample and methodology and yes that poses a problem especially when the result go counter to conventional wisdom.

      Another point I've seen raised on a dutch iPhone site concerns the nature of the crashes being reported. A developer ("Jamie") who uses Crittercism says: (my translation from dutch) "It [the article] presents a distorted view, I use Crittercism and a lot of those crashes are invisible to the end user. So far I've only gotten memory management type crash reports on closing the app. In short the user doesn't notice, but on the next launch I get a crash report and the counter goes up by 1 for iOS. Sorry guys."

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    48. Re:Long Story Short by mjwx · · Score: 1

      As a consumer, I notice that I see far fewer unresponsive apps on my Nexus than I did with my iPhone 4. This is probably partly due to the fact that the Android OS is so quick to intervene and offer to forcibly close an app -- which turns an unresponsive app into a crash and would contribute to Android apps crashing more than iOS apps.

      This,

      Android is very quick to catch programs that will never return to a functioning state. I only have one program that freezes (Touchdown for Exchange, a hell of a lot more functional then the in built exch client) and Android will either catch this (The force close or wait dialogue box) or it will return to a functioning state within a few minutes.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    49. Re:Long Story Short by Gumbercules!! · · Score: 1

      Also, the Facebook app is a piece of crap on the iPhone.

      It's a piece of crap on Android, too.

    50. Re:Long Story Short by subreality · · Score: 1

      It's kind of a misleading statistic. iPhones are all high end smartphones, whereas Android runs on everything and has replaced all but the lowest level feature phones and the low-end stuff accounts for a big part of sales. Low end users aren't Android enthusiasts and won't specifically seek out Android again when they go for their next upgrade.

      As a recent migrant from an iPhone to a high end Android phone, I will say I'm never going back. There are ups and downs but on the whole Android is SO much less of a PITA.

    51. Re:Long Story Short by randomsearch · · Score: 1

      That statistic is answering a different question, and a survey like that carries limited meaning. For example, 'intention' is not as meaningful as 'actually have gone out and bought a new iPhone'. Just sayin'.

      From what I've heard / seen of Android, and extensively using iOS, I'm not surprised that more crashes happen on iOS. It got much, much worse with recent iOS updates (for me at least), so I think it's more an OS issue than app quality.

      Regarding the question "Would you buy another iPhone?"... I'm mulling that over now. ok, so iOS is probably more buggy than Android, but when it does work it seems to be prettier and faster, with a better UI. That's from limited experience... anyone able to give a personal opinion having owned both devices themselves? I'm tempted to 'stick to what I know' rather than taking a gamble and finding that Android's apps are inferior, or the GUI is sluggish, etc.

      RS

    52. Re:Long Story Short by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2

      Out of my 30 or so friends with smart phones for more than 2 years, 1 of the iPhone users switched to Android. Of the 14 people I knew who bought the first droids, 10 now have iPhone 4Gs or 4GSs. Only 4 elected to get another android phone. When I asked why, the reason was they wanted an iPhone 2 years ago, but going with AT&T was not an option. So android was the best they had. My friends wanted to stay with Verizon or Sprint. Well now that the carriers have iPhones people are getting what they originally wanted.

      What I found was most interesting was how few apps overall the android users downloaded compared to iPhone users. Even more interesting was that none of my friends actually bought an app for their android phone. I have 2 apps I've released on both platforms in the past 2 years. Both are HTML5/JS using Phonegap to create the native distributions. Both have a free ad supported version and a paid "no ads" version for $1.99 each with a few extra features. Android has about 60% of the total downloads yet iOS makes up 88% of my revenue from people buying the paid versions. The ad revenue from both platforms doesn't really amount to much. We aren't talking huge numbers, but at last check 64 people have bought the app for Android, 719 on the iPhone. Granted the apps I've made were things I created mostly for myself and thought others could use it. And this work is mainly stuff I do in the evenings or on the weekends for fun and to support my coffee habbit.

      Given some of the headaches with Android (having to maintain a separate build branches for 2.2, 2.3, 3.0) the next paid app I'm releasing next month is for iOS and possibly the Kindle Fire, which is android but unlike "android" is a specific device, and not general "android" devices.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    53. Re:Long Story Short by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      By the looks of it, it has something to do with iOS 5. Taking that out of the equation puts Android on top (not that it's doing a bad job of catching up anyway) so either Apple cocked up something in iOS 5 or a lot of developers rely on something they shouldn't have.

    54. Re:Long Story Short by ewibble · · Score: 1

      I assume you are subtracting 1 from the other to get you difference. That is an incorrect calculation, if Android crashed 50% and iPhone crashed 0% (degenerate case) would android only be 50% worse. The fact is that since you hope (an app should never crashes) apps crash relatively rarely even a small percentage of crashes makes a big difference.

      To get how much more it a iOS app crashes divide the two iOS/Andriod * 100 (third quarter) 3.66/2.97 * 100 = 23% more crashes

      In fact given the number of different hardware configurations android has to deal with I am surprised that it is better. Ok not after using a Mac for the past several months and seeing how often that crashed.

    55. Re:Long Story Short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Had you read the link, you would note that 42% of current Android owners would buy a different brand of phone. I like how you prefaced what you said with "probably", since it indicates the "source" of your statement - your fantasy.

  3. Android ftl? by metalmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was expecting android to outdo iOS in the crash department due to all the variables in the android world hat iOS just doesnt suffer from. Namely, android has a wider range of handset support.

    1. Re:Android ftl? by JAlexoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And Linux should crash more because it supports more architectures than Windows.

    2. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I get your sarcasm, but for those who don't, it's worth pointing out that supporting multiple platforms usually makes a platform more robust.

    3. Re:Android ftl? by MtHuurne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Objective C vs Java might have something to do with it. In Objective C the programmer has to take care of more low-level stuff so the potential for errors is larger. Also the compiler will catch fewer problems.

    4. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The bit about "One other point that this made clear to me is that many people apparently take their time updating their iPhone software or never update it at all." kinda kills the iFag delusion that iOS is easy to develop for because Apple pushes out new versions quickly so you don't need to bother supporting old ones, doesn't it?

    5. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And Linux should crash more because it supports more architectures than Windows.

      If you have bad drivers, it does. Which is the overwhelming reason for Windows crashes too, and the background for this argument. (Nvidia drivers were alone responsible 30% of total Vista crashes, which is quite staggering)

    6. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you have a point there. Java's garbage collection at it's best!

    7. Re:Android ftl? by WankersRevenge · · Score: 4, Informative

      We'll be probably being seeing the numbers shift as more ios developers start incorporating ARC into their code. For those not in the know, ARC is compiler optimization that handles object deallocation for the developer thereby preventing the most common kinds of crashes. People often get it confused with garbage collection and while the end results are similar, ARC occurs only occurs at compile time so there is no runtime performance hit. It's a big win for developers and end users.

    8. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the role of User, I don't give a flying fuck why Windows crashes more than Linux. All I know is that it does.

    9. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      ARC isn't a silver bullet, and there are actual performance benefits to modern garbage collectors that ARC won't be able to take advantage of. Its really just auto-generated retain and release statements at all the most obvious points where you'd need it in code. It doesn't protect against circular ref leaks, and there are ways to structure your code that confuse it, requiring you to turn it off for the entire source file. It is nice that you can turn it off for one source file but leave it on for the rest of your codebase. And unless I'm mistaken, its still deallocating objects individually when their refcount hits 0, not giving you any of the bulk deallocation speedups that a generational garbage collector gives you. Garbage collectors have come a long way. The runtime cost of performing collection has gone way down, and for all but a few workloads is more than offset by the more efficient allocation schemes it gives you access to.

    10. Re:Android ftl? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Funny

      In the role of User, I don't give a flying fuck why Windows crashes more than Linux. All I know is that it does.

      A User? A User! Hey guys, we got a User here! Which one of you let him in?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    11. Re:Android ftl? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I dunno how iOS works, but on the Android platform the user has to clear RAM manually.

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you probably don't know how Android works either.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    12. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      on the Android platform the user has to clear RAM manually. Otherwise apps will consume it til theres none left which leads to a crash.

      How much is Apple paying you to write such epic bullshit?

    13. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you analized a ton of buggy applications for exact reasons of crashes, you seem to imply that variance in hardware contributes to Android's crashiness (because all iOS devices from iPod Touch to iPad has same resolution and RAM size, right?).

      And then there's this beautiful snippet about "the user has to clear RAM manually".

    14. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Garbage collectors have come a long way.

      Too bad that the Android Dalvik VM still has a non-moving GC... At least it is mark&sweep and not ref-counting.

    15. Re:Android ftl? by metalmaster · · Score: 1

      I'll reply here because you chose not to be a coward, but this response applies to the ACs below as well. Apps tend to crash when they are out of resources. Other apps will refuse to start when there are not enough resources to go around. Android has a nasty habit of letting apps hold their state in RAM so they start up quicker next time. To remedy that you visit the RAM tab of the task manager and tap "clear memory" I did this just now and it ended 12 ongoing processes to free up nearly 125MB of RAM.

    16. Re:Android ftl? by Coppit · · Score: 1

      Greetings, program!

    17. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Android has a nasty habit of letting apps hold their state in RAM so they start up quicker next time.

      1) It's not "nasty".
      2) It's not "so they start up quicker", it's so they don't need to start again in the first place.
      3) The system will automatically kill background apps in this state if there's not enough memory to go round.

    18. Re:Android ftl? by skgrey · · Score: 1

      Dammit, sorry, I fell asleep at my post. Long night playing Skyrim.

      "I don't give a flying fuck why Windows..etc etc, I blame the big picture rather than what is wrong" is something non-techies do constantly. They only want to say it works or not at the 20,000 foot level, which equates to "Windows sucks" if it doesn't work. In reality it is probably that coupon app they loaded on their laptop that is causing the issue and has nothing to do with Windows or a server issue. It's important to look at where the problem is coming from; once you do that you not only understand the culprit but you can actually solve the issue (or have someone like us solve your issue). If you never take time to realize where issues are happening you'll just jump from one technology to another, but always have the same issues - throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    19. Re:Android ftl? by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Apple handle it a bit more draconically more like it.

      Only a very specific set of app types can request to be backgrounded, and the conditions are strictly checked during the app approval process. the rest can be dumped from ram at any time after the user have hit the home button, and so are expected to dump state on said button press.

      Android only tells apps to dump state once ram fills up, starting with the app that has spent the most time idle.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    20. Re:Android ftl? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Android has a nasty habit of letting apps hold their state in RAM so they start up quicker next time.

      1) It's not "nasty". 2) It's not "so they start up quicker", it's so they don't need to start again in the first place. 3) The system will automatically kill background apps in this state if there's not enough memory to go round.

      If I had mod points ... but I don't.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    21. Re:Android ftl? by hitmark · · Score: 2

      On more recent Android versions, simply long pressing the home button will bring up a list of in ram apps. From there they can be closed easily. Note that Android will tell apps to clear out once the ram gets tight (starting with the least used ones), but the process of doing so will be less than instant.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    22. Re:Android ftl? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      On more recent Android versions, simply long pressing the home button will bring up a list of in ram apps. From there they can be closed easily. Note that Android will tell apps to clear out once the ram gets tight (starting with the least used ones), but the process of doing so will be less than instant.

      I run Cyanogenmod, and a long-press on the back button can be configured to kill the current task. Mostly I use that not for memory management per se, but as a convenient way to kill an unresponsive app (sometimes the OS doesn't notice and offer to force close.)

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    23. Re:Android ftl? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll reply here because you chose not to be a coward, but this response applies to the ACs below as well. Apps tend to crash when they are out of resources. Other apps will refuse to start when there are not enough resources to go around. Android has a nasty habit of letting apps hold their state in RAM so they start up quicker next time. To remedy that you visit the RAM tab of the task manager and tap "clear memory" I did this just now and it ended 12 ongoing processes to free up nearly 125MB of RAM.

      I think you're having a conceptual problem here. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with having no "free" RAM. You're running a Linux box after all, and that's why you have a memory management subsystem. If there is not sufficient free RAM (or not enough in a contiguous block) for an app to start, the operating system will make space for it by unloading something that isn't currently running. Now, that make take a noticeable amount of time, depending upon the application and machine performance. In any event, every Android app is required to save its state when it is not in the foreground, so it can be restarted either from memory, or from the filesystem, exactly where it left off. It doesn't really matter whether the app is in memory or not, or whether you think you have no free memory ... or not. It's the operating system's job to handle that for you. This is not an Apple ][, after all, this is a modern OS that's fully capable of managing its own resources.

      Now, if what you're saying is that you're having stability or performance issues, odds are you have a misbehaving application (or a broken background service.) But that's not an operating system issue. Find out what's causing the problem and bug the dev to fix it. I don't know what kind of device you have, but I suppose it's possible that it doesn't have enough RAM to do what you want of it.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    24. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Android resolutions are currently up to 1280x720 on phones (the new Galaxy Nexus).

    25. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Windows sucks" if it doesn't work. In reality it is probably that coupon app they loaded on their laptop that is causing the issue and has nothing to do with Windows or a server issue.

      Did you give any thought to what you just wrote here? A coupon app crashes your OS and it is the user's fault? Wow, talk about Stockholm Syndrome. But don't mind me, carry along rooting for you precious like a good little fandrone.

    26. Re:Android ftl? by Khazunga · · Score: 1

      Hmm, Deciding, on compile time, when an object will no longer be used smells, to me, as a variation on the Halting problem. It is not feasible. You may deallocate some objects, where it is provable that an object is no longer used, but you will leak memory, because not all cases can be proved at compile time.

      --
      If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
    27. Re:Android ftl? by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      ARC isn't a silver bullet, but neither is garbage collection. If your code is bad enough to confuse ARC (and it is quite easy to achieve this), then the solution is not to turn off ARC, but fix the problems in your code.

    28. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know how to read or are you totally illiterate? He said "laptop" not "iPad / iPhone / Android". It looks like he was referencing the overall user behavior of "this OS is bad" because something they did made it not work. Perhaps you are the poster above who said "I don't give a flying fuck why Windows crashes"; that's actually what makes the most sense here as you seem to be showing off a third-grade reading level. Let me guess - you are in sales, right? It's kind of obvious, since you don't believe there's some end-user responsibility and missed the point of the previous post entirely. How many times have you got a virus from surfing porn on the road and blamed it on the IT department?

    29. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Greetings, Professor Falken.

    30. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ::face palm::

      The GP quoted the guy verbatim referring to windows and windows server and you're going on about iThing and Android. And then you have the audacity to accuse somebody else of being illiterate.

      The mind boggles. Wait...

      Checks URL bar...Slash dot..check
      Checks date...after 1999. Check

      Carry on, dumbfuck.

    31. Re:Android ftl? by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      Um, you are aware there are full featured coupon "apps" for Windows, right? Remember class, do your research before insulting someone else only to expose your own ignorance of the subject at hand.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    32. Re:Android ftl? by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      That's your experience.
      My experience is that Windows crashes about as rarely as Linux.

      But then again, I'm not a user but earn my money doing IT support, more specific Windows support, so I kinda know how to set up a Windows box properly and how to handle it.

    33. Re:Android ftl? by hal2814 · · Score: 1

      When did reference counting stop being a form of garbage collection? It's still listed as such in several compiler textbooks and wikipedia. If it's not longer considered a form of garbage collection then someone should probably let the rest of the civilized world know about the change.

    34. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'analysed' (or 'analyzed' I imagine, if you're a merkin).

      'analizing' a ton of anything would be rather uncomfortable.

    35. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Linux should crash more because it supports more architectures than Windows.

      That's a very flawed comparison, the comparison would be do Linux apps crash more than MacOS apps?

    36. Re:Android ftl? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      In any event, every Android app is required to save its state when it is not in the foreground, so it can be restarted either from memory, or from the filesystem, exactly where it left off. It doesn't really matter whether the app is in memory or not, or whether you think you have no free memory ... or not. It's the operating system's job to handle that for you. This is not an Apple ][, after all, this is a modern OS that's fully capable of managing its own resources.

      I get how Android's memory management works. But it would be really nice if I, the phone's owner, had some say in all this. I have 125 apps on my phone. Probably excessive, but the phone has space for it and I use most of them from time to time. Unfortunately it's an older phone so only has 512 MB of RAM.

      My phone went into this state of constantly unloading apps from memory because the number of apps claiming to the OS that they needed to be constantly running exceeded the available free memory. Apps like Market, Amazon App Store, wireless hotspot, an office doc reading app, MP3 player, etc. None of these apps need to be running. They're probably just checking for updates, and I'd be fine if they just checked whenever I ran them. But the OS completely trusts them when they tell it they need to run. Because I have no say in whether they run, they'd constantly load/unload each other from memory to do whatever it is they do, killing my battery life and slowing down my phone.

      I've tried a couple memory managers which claimed they would allow me to stop selected apps from auto-starting. But it's been hit and miss. Eventually I resorted to using Titanium Backup to freeze wayward little-used apps (basically making Android think the app isn't installed). I need to unfreeze them when I use them, which takes more time. But having to do that once every few days beats having a constantly unresponsive phone.

      The same problem exists on desktop OSes like Windows. But there I can run msconfig or modify rc.* to manually remove apps which try to pre-load themselves even if they don't need to be.

    37. Re:Android ftl? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Oh holy Computer Science how wrong you can be.

      You don't have a clue about operating systems functions or even software development and you just shoot few "magical marketing words" about resolution, RAM and crashes as they would be the reason.

    38. Re:Android ftl? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Yeah and Linux is just so terrible operating system because it can not free the RAM but it is always filled with all resources processes use and even a disk cache is there...

      Have you ever even understood how Linux operating system works or even how ANY operating system works?

      I give you a magic word for your query... "Memory Management".

      Un-used RAM is useless RAM.... There is no reason at all to keep RAM un-used as it is just wasted and re-launching applications just use more power.

      User does not need to do any memory management with Android, let the Linux operating system to do its job as does it clearly much better way than you can even think off.

    39. Re:Android ftl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No this is how Android runs:

      Whenever an application is sent the background, Android signals the foreground application that it has been "backgrounded".

      Background services will not terminate, nor save it's state. It might release UI resources, but that's up to the application.
      Typically, applications will at this point, save it's state. This way, if Android runs low on RAM, all it needs to do is blow away the application without thinking -- minimizing the pause-and-wait while the application shuts down. However, it does NOT normally purge the application from RAM because it doesn't need to; if you return to the application, it can instantly bring it up (usually signalling the app to clear it's saved state)

    40. Re:Android ftl? by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      Android only tells apps to dump state once ram fills up, starting with the app that has spent the most time idle.

      Not true. Once the app has been "closed" it's still allowed to reside in memory and even do stuff. However, there is an expectation that that particular process may be killed at any time without prior notice. Background services are handled a bit differently though.

    41. Re:Android ftl? by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      There are times when using an ill fit image crashes everything.

      What now? Ill fit images never crash anything. You can leak images and fill up the bitmap space, but that is a different thing.

      Otherwise apps will consume it til theres none left which leads to a crash.

      Apps on Android have a set max amount of heap space. Tablet versions can request more, but generally it's 25mb. As a result it's like a queue, the last app that you used will be killed off for the new one to get the 25mb it needs. Going beyond 25mb can be easily caught at testing even in the emulator.

    42. Re:Android ftl? by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      In my experience Samsung phones don't wait until they're running out of ram. Their versions of android aggressively kill background apps.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    43. Re:Android ftl? by Tooke · · Score: 1

      I dunno how iOS works, but on the Android platform the user has to clear RAM manually. Otherwise apps will consume it til theres none left which leads to a crash. Apple probably handles this a bit more elegantly.

      It isn't any better on ios. I've had apps that eat memory until the device crashed. And Apple apparently thinks their users shouldn't have to worry about having "open" and "closed" apps, so they obfuscate things to create the idea that apps are "always open" (read: multitasking keeps them running which slows down the device until it either crashes or is rebooted. Thanks Apple!) Be grateful that in Android they give you the option to clear RAM manually.

      It's one of the many reasons I jailbreak actually. it gives me a simple way to close apps when I'm done and I can clear RAM, which adds stability and battery life. Apple: Don't treat your users like idiots. Pretending that your iDevices have unlimited resources will not make it so.

      --
      Anybody want a peanut?
    44. Re:Android ftl? by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      People often get it confused with garbage collection and while the end results are similar, ARC occurs only occurs at compile time so there is no runtime performance hit.

      What are you talking about? Reference counting is absolutely a form of garbage collection, and it's not a particularly good one at that. And it most certainly does have a performance impact; indeed, it's significantly slower than tracing GC in most cases.

      There are advantages to reference counting. It's simpler, releases memory sooner, and has more predictable performance characteristics than trace-based GC. But it is a fallacy to pretend that it has "no runtime performance hit".

    45. Re:Android ftl? by hey! · · Score: 1

      Personally, I see no reason why supporting a wider variety of handsets would have anything to do with crashing.

      In the desktop OS world, of course, there was the issue of buggy drivers. Neither the OS developer nor the computer's manufacturer had any control over what you stuck in a PCI slot. But you don't have this problem with handsets,where you only plug things in through generic interfaces like Bluetooth. You don't have third party driver writers doing direct memory access, executing invalid or privileged CPU instructions, and all that kind of stuff. So you'd expect a mobile operating systems to be quite stable, unless the handset manufacturer is incompetent. And in general I have found mobile OSs to be extremely stable.

      So crashing is more likely to be the fault of programmers, typically making assumptions that the app can always obtain some resource or another. Still, I have found crashes on mobile apps to be less common than on desktop apps, why I don't know for sure. What is a more common with mobile apps is inconsistent responsiveness. That is very annoying, because responsiveness is pretty much the raison d'etre for modern touchscreen interfaces.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    46. Re:Android ftl? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      I expected Android to win thanks to faster reaction time of developers.

      When I put out an app, it started to get crash reports. It was my first app, and had several beginners mistakes of course. Often the next day I could put out a new version on the market fixing that issue, and soon enough the crash reports stopped. Me learning, so less mistakes, and with a quick turnaround I got a pretty stable app. Crash reports now are not my app's crashes, but crashes in underlying Android libs.

      The Apple store has the problem of far slower turnaround, so bug fixes can't be pushed out as fast, and bugs live longer. So more crashy apps.

      Well then I tried to read the article, and it's unintelligible. Graphs are horribly cluttered, text is confusing, and I don't want to have to study it very hard to get to the meaning of it. Forbes usually does much better than this.

    47. Re:Android ftl? by tomboalogo · · Score: 1

      Hey now!! Don't be slagging on the Apple ][ !! If you gotta pick an old school computer to slag on ... try the TRS (Trash) 80.

    48. Re:Android ftl? by LS · · Score: 1

      Actually this doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Seems to me that linux crashes a lot more than windows at this point. If your computer doesn't get Linux support directly from the manufacturer, it's very possible that running Linux smoothly on it will be a bitch. Example, my HP DV4-3011TX laptop.

      --
      There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    49. Re:Android ftl? by PylonHead · · Score: 1

      I came here to say this. Language matters.

      --
      # (/.);;
      - : float -> float -> float =
    50. Re:Android ftl? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      The article isn't about operating systems crashing and you could argue that actually a lot of Linux apps do crash when they rely on poor drivers. Linux itself is rock solid but it does have shitty apps too.

    51. Re:Android ftl? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Hey now!! Don't be slagging on the Apple ][ !! If you gotta pick an old school computer to slag on ... try the TRS (Trash) 80.

      Hey, I spent several years coding real-time applications for the Apple ][, so I'm not slagging on it. But it's a good example of an older system without anything resembling memory management.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  4. iOS crashes more often than article states by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Since iOS 5.0.1 I cannot browse (Safari) for more than a few minutes on my iPad before it crashes. I tried other browser Apps: they also crash 5 - 10 times a day. I don't need iPad 3. I need Apple to fix their horrible firmware. Apple is clearly a hardware company. Software is Apple's Achilles Heel. Google is way better at software.

    1. Re:iOS crashes more often than article states by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's either bullshit or you have managed to seriously bork your installation.
      May I suggest 'restoring' the software from within iTunes.

    2. Re:iOS crashes more often than article states by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its almost comforting to finally know I am not the only one!!!! It is freaking ridiculous how often apps crash after updating to iOs 5 on my iPad 1. It has become almost unusable at this point. If there are any Apple engineers reading slashdot, PLEASE comment on what is being done to fix this!

    3. Re:iOS crashes more often than article states by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you holding it correctly?

  5. Missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The $600 device's main purpose is NOT to make calls. It's an internet communications device that just happens to make phone calls. The people who insist that basic phones are just fine need to figure out this slight, but important, distinction. Buy an internet device if you want internet, but don't compare it to a phone.

    1. Re:Missing the point? by s4ltyd0g · · Score: 0

      Agreed. There are no "smart phones" that provide decent telephony function. Basic phone is one of the worst aspects of these devices an afterthought really. Anybody saying they won't be running many apps should consider just a basic phone and not one of these. I hate my Google phone it sucks. I have a Galaxy Tab though that I use often and I enjoy using the android platform. I bought the device and never installed the SIM. I don't need the SIM as there is no phone functionality on this device. I use it on wifi. It has a bigger screen than my Milestone and gets better battery life.

    2. Re:Missing the point? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I'm not planning to buy a smart phone because I need or want one, but to have a device to program to support at least some segment of the smart phone market. Hence putting it off for now.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:Missing the point? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 3, Informative

      What smartphones have you used, and what constitutes "decent function"? Because I have never been disappointed in the telephone part of any of my smartphones.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    4. Re:Missing the point? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I had a Motorola v360. It had such a good microphone that I could walk down a Manhattan avenue talking and people would not know I was even outside except for the occasional siren. The volume was actually loud enough to hear people talking on the other end.

      Then I had a Sony Ericsson TM506, and while the microphone wasn't quite as good at noise cancelling, the quality was decent and the volume level was loud enough.

      I've never used a smart phone that compares favorably to either of those phones. If you know of one, I'd love to give it a try. It's conceivable that the extra distance from mouth to microphone makes it impossible to make a good smartphone microphone, but I don't understand why the volume level seems low on them all.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:Missing the point? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Cool... now I just have to find someone with a rooted Android who is willing to install this :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:Missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My iPhone is the easiest to use phone I have ever owned. What are often complicated or mysterious functions on other phones - functions such as conference calls or voicemail - are touch-simple and readily obvious on the iPhone.

      In my pre-iPhone days, I didn't realize in Windows Mobile that the phone apps were vendor specific. My HTC phone had a really nice phone app that was easy to use and well laid out. When the screen broke on it and Sprint couldn't replace it because the new model was delayed and they were out of stock, they offered to "upgrade" me to the Palm Treo. Stupid me - I should have looked at it first and not just relied on the Palm name. The phone app on the Treo was gawd-awful! I loathed, loathed, loathed it! I still can't believe I passed the first iPhone and waited for the iPhone 3G just because of my stupid contract. What was really stupid was paying for smartphone data but not using my phone as the internet device I wanted because the overall interface sucked so horribly!

    7. Re:Missing the point? by steveha · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are no "smart phones" that provide decent telephony function.

      I completely disagree. Before I got my Droid 2 phone (Android phone from Verizon) I didn't think that a smartphone would be much different from a boring phone. And, I really loved my old Motorola StarTac flip-phone; I was reluctant to go from that to the comparatively massive Droid 2.

      Here is what I have found:

      • It's kind of nice to dial just by clicking on the screen. I mostly dialed numbers directly on my StarTac, with only a few numbers coded into numbered memory slots; now I look up my friend, point with my finger, and the phone dials. It's really a large step forward in usability.
      • It's also really nice to call businesses that are not in my contacts. I Google search for, say, Joe's Plumbing, then click on the phone number in the search results with my finger. Sometimes Google even puts a GUI button in there, "call 425-555-1212" The Phone app launches with that number pre-loaded, and I just hit the big green "initiate call" icon.
      • Google Voice Search is also really nice. I pull out my phone, hit that icon, and say "call James Johnston at home". And by golly the voice recognition works, it looks up the name in my contacts, and dials for me. I like this so much, I want a hardware button on the side of the phone to trigger the Google Voice Search feature.
      • Google Voice Search even works with businesses and other names not in my contacts, although it's much less reliable. The voice recognition doesn't do well with words that are not in Google's word list, but sound sort of like words that are. So if I try to search for "Vetco Electronics" it matches as "Petco Electronics" which isn't very useful. (However, for words that are in the list, or words that sound nothing like any word in the list, it works well. I can ask it to search for "Umpqua Bank" and it nails it. Hmmm, I suppose "Umpqua" could be in the list, but it seems unlikely.)
      • Not really exclusive to a smartphone, but the Droid 2 is the first phone I have had with a really usable speakerphone function. I bought a Bluetooth hands-free headset so I could legally talk while driving; I never use it, I just use the speakerphone function.

      In short, I'm quite pleased with my Droid 2 as a phone.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    8. Re:Missing the point? by Unkl_Shvelven · · Score: 2

      I like this so much, I want a hardware button on the side of the phone to trigger the Google Voice Search feature.

      Long-press the search button to activate Voice Search

      --
      regular man whom love computer (Also, fuck beta).
    9. Re:Missing the point? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I haven't used those, so I don't have a great frame of reference... but I certainly have never had any problems hearing people while on the phone, nor them me. The smartphones I've used are a Motorola Droid (old personal), Droid 2 Global (work-issued), and Samsung Galaxy Nexus (new personal). Then again, your use case may differ significantly from mine. I primarily talk to people while at home or at work, so there's no background noise (which would no doubt make it harder for people to hear you).

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    10. Re:Missing the point? by noh8rz2 · · Score: 1

      "Volume+ requests access to... SMS, address book, recording phone calls, your credit card, camera..."

    11. Re:Missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the tip, but it doesn't work on my Droid 2. It is running Motorola's custom Aandroid build, which is 2.3 or 2.2.

    12. Re:Missing the point? by tchall · · Score: 1

      I had a Motorola v360. It had such a good microphone that I could walk down a Manhattan avenue talking and people would not know I was even outside except for the occasional siren.

      Then you would enjoy the Droid X, Razr, and other late model Motorola Android phones as well... three microphones for active noice cancelation

      I can be in a Fire Truck, or sitting on my diesel farm tractor, and all people can hear is my voice...

      Finding a suitable Bluetooth earpiece that has noise reduction nearly as good took a bit of hunting... My current Plantronics does a pretty decent job, but the phone has an advantage in the distance between mics...

    13. Re:Missing the point? by iinlane · · Score: 1

      My nexus s used to lose connection to cell towers with android 2.3.1. Apparently a subsysem had crashed an the only way to restore the connection was to restart the phone. The crash was always silent, without any notification, I usually noticed it when I tried to make phone calls. Often (about every other week) I spent days without connection before I noticed it. The problem was not limited to my phone and it reocurred with firs vanilla 4.0 firmware.

      Being able to receive basic phone calls does constitue as "decent function".

    14. Re:Missing the point? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      I have an iPhone, and occasionally the fucking Phone app crashes. You know, the one that makes and receives phone calls? Crashing? One would think that should be the most reliable part of the phone, yet there you have it. (On a related note, I've also used a Nokia E75, and that would randomly reboot in the middle of a phone call).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    15. Re:Missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My motorola silvr crashed if receiving a sms while calling and vice versa. The nokia e51 was wonderful in every way, but it seems you can't get anyting good out of nokia these days.

    16. Re:Missing the point? by tehcyder · · Score: 0

      I mostly dialed numbers directly on my StarTac, with only a few numbers coded into numbered memory slots;

      Non-smartphones have had quickly searchable and dialableaddress books since approximately 1918.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:Missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The $600 device's main purpose is NOT to make calls. It's an internet communications device that just happens to make phone calls. The people who insist that basic phones are just fine need to figure out this slight, but important, distinction. Buy an internet device if you want internet, but don't compare it to a phone.

      If I purchase a smartphone and mainly use it to make =gasp= phone calls then I absolutely can compare it to a phone. For $600 it should be better than a $45 "phone". They are not marketed as "internet devices" you ape.

    18. Re:Missing the point? by neonKow · · Score: 1

      Now that you mention it, it does seem like my Evo Shift has the same problem -- it's a lot softer on speaker phone on max volume than you would think it could be.

    19. Re:Missing the point? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I think that's an important distinction. Watching the iphone users at my work go "hello... damn... hello... dammit.... hello... CRAP" but seeing the flawless (except for flash) browser function, I can understand why they are described that way.

      So, if you need a really reliable phone, but also have the need for mobile internet.... I guess you could get a cheap flip phone and an iPad. But I've never seen an ipad owner who didn't also own laptop and iphone also. I guess email is good enough?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    20. Re:Missing the point? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      My use case has changed, so the crappy smartphone call quality does not matter to me anymore. For a while I lived in Manhattan and frequently found myself in the midst of a surprise conference call while out on the street. Even when it wasn't work related, it was nice to not have to duck into a store to talk to people. Now I use maybe 200 minutes a month.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    21. Re:Missing the point? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Glad to hear that Motorola is back to having decent voice quality - maybe I'll give one of their newer models a try once my kids totally kill my current phone.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    22. Re:Missing the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non-smartphones have had quickly searchable and dialableaddress books since approximately 1918.

      The jargon you want here is "feature-phones". The StarTac was just a cell phone, barely any features (it could send and receive texts and that is it).

      I'm curious. Do you have a feature-phone that has a touchscreen as convenient as a smartphone? And do you think the existence of feature-phones makes the comments about smartphones invalid?

  6. Missing analysis by geogob · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would be very interest to see the impact of jailbreaking in this analysis. Do apps crash more often on jailbroken devices? How does it compare between Android and iOS?

    One of the main argument for closed down system, putting aside the money factor which no one gives as an official reason, is stability. I do not believe stability is considerably affected by jailbreaking or by the subsequent modification one could do to the OS, but it would be nice to have statistics and some analysis on this.

    1. Re:Missing analysis by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I would be very interest to see the impact of jailbreaking in this analysis. Do apps crash more often on jailbroken devices? How does it compare between Android and iOS?

      One of the main argument for closed down system, putting aside the money factor which no one gives as an official reason, is stability. I do not believe stability is considerably affected by jailbreaking or by the subsequent modification one could do to the OS, but it would be nice to have statistics and some analysis on this.

      Depends. In the Apple world, "jailbreaking" is simply to allow users access to system services and data that they would otherwise be prevented from using. In the Android world, "rooting" is primarily to permit the installation of third-party firmware, something which Apple would never permit since iOS is closed-source anyway.

      It's been my experience that some of the better alternate ROMs out there are substantially more stable, and have fewer runtime issues, than the stock firmware provided by Google or the carriers. I didn't see any reference to that in the Crittercism data. My personal favorite, for some years now, had been Cyanogenmod. Their current release is still Gingerbread, but they're working on a ICS release. I'm hoping it will be soon. The thing is, the "many eyes" principle works very well in open source projects like this, especially when the eyes are as talented and capable as Steve Kondik and his crew: Android is a much better, faster, more stable product because of them.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Missing analysis by gabebear · · Score: 1

      It would have been interesting to know what apps they were really logging crashes for(I'm guessing all apps that use Crittercism). Were they including only non-beta internal builds in these numbers? That would have driven the iOS5 WAY up since you normally develop on the latest platform.

      Of the apps that send their crash data to Crittercism and were included in this report; iOS apps crash more. The writeup here makes it seem like they were logging crashes of normal apps...

    3. Re:Missing analysis by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      On Android jailbreaking makes no difference to the OS or most apps. It just means that apps which would like root permissions can ask for them. It doesn't even need to alter system files or anything like that, just insert an app that loads with superuser permissions (a function built into the OS, just not normally available to non-system stuff) and which can then grant them to other apps.

      Of course you can then get into changing the kernel, changing the filesystem, updating drivers and all sorts of hacks, but mere rooting of the device has no real danger or even much hackyness about it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Missing analysis by gabebear · · Score: 1

      On Android jailbreaking makes no difference to the OS or most apps. It just means that apps which would like root permissions can ask for them.

      Actually, on iOS mere jailbreaking does even less than rooting on Android. Jailbreak just disables the code-sign check when an executable runs(so you don't have to sign your code with Apple). The problems for iOS and Android come later when people start modifying everything(which a lot of packaged jailbreak/root-exploits do).

    5. Re:Missing analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jailbreaking does lower stability. Apps from Cydia crash a lot more often than from the appstore.

    6. Re:Missing analysis by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      On iOS an app really isn't going to know if the phone is jailbroken - it's merely disabling the code signing.

      If you then go on to do more esoteric things (like mixing a different baseband from an earlier version of iOS, or one from a different device) then things might be different, but most jailbreaks likely have no need for that.

    7. Re:Missing analysis by geogob · · Score: 2

      What you are saying, is that the quality and stability of the specific apps available only to jailbroken devices only is lower. Not that the overall system less stable is.

        This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone... the cydia-available apps don't go through any reviewing process (the one from the app store may be flawed, but it nonetheless a reviewing process - i'm sure a lot of buggy junk gets never approved for distribution through the app store). Furthermore, these apps often try to change OS features not meant to be changed or in ways not foreseen. They often bypass the standard APIs.

      Of course they will be more buggy and less stable.

      A just and fair comparison would be to compare the stability of the same apps from the app store or native iOS app before and after jailbreaking and customization.

    8. Re:Missing analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Closed Source has nothing to do with installing applications outside "authorized" sourced. A closed system (like in science) prevents that. Windows is largely closed source, but allows you to do whatever.

      AND NO NO NO NO ROOTING IS NOT PRIMARILY TO PERMIT 3RD PARTY FIRMWARE. BAD! You do not need a Windows' Administrator (a root) account to install another OS!

      Rooting has *NOTHING* to do with the ability for installing custom ROMs! Custom ROMs can be installed without root, and root can be had without custom ROMs.

      Custom ROMs only require "fastboot unlock" - something that is inside the bootloader -- it's actually outside the OS. Quite literally, custom firmware requires you to throw a ZIP file into the phone, and reboot with a volume key pressed.

      Root requires a (custom?) firmware to provide root access like Windows or stock *nix. Now custom ROMs usually support root access with the proper superuser tools anyway because it's not too hard to when you have the OS source. Rooting is only for installing or removing system applications / drivers, applications that require no / fewer restrictions (like firewalls).

    9. Re:Missing analysis by evilviper · · Score: 1

      That still wouldn't tell you anything vis a vis Android vs Apple. Android is a lot more flexible WITHOUT having to jail break. So for a comparison, you'd need to establish a baseline of functionality, and if one platform requires 3rd party app stores and jail breaking, while the other does not, so be it.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  7. Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So IOS 4 used cooperative multitasking (http://forums.pcworld.com/index.php?/topic/89287-apple-ios-4-vs-android-multitasking-which-approach-is-better-for-users/page__st__160) while I believe android uses a modern pre-emptive multitasking approach. I know IOS 5 has updated multtasking but it is unclear to me if they have gone to a full pre-emptive multitasking scheme.

    It doesn't surprise me that Android is better in this area. To my way of thinking it doesn't make much sense not to have full pre-emptive multitasking and I have an iPhone. It wouldn't significantly affect battery life. The fact that a ton of processes can be running in the background on android is a significant contributor to the android battery woes. While that wouldn't be possible without full pre-emptive multitasking, I think there are better ways to manage that than simply relying on third party apps to manage background activities.

    1. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So IOS 4 used cooperative multitasking (http://forums.pcworld.com/index.php?/topic/89287-apple-ios-4-vs-android-multitasking-which-approach-is-better-for-users/page__st__160) while I believe android uses a modern pre-emptive multitasking approach. I know IOS 5 has updated multtasking but it is unclear to me if they have gone to a full pre-emptive multitasking scheme.

      iOS has always had a full multi-tasking kernel. It is Unix for crying out loud. I would write more, but obviously you don't care because otherwise you would have typed, "iPhone Kernel Multitasking" into your favorite search engine and found and read any of the top articles that the search engine provides. Go on, try it out, if you care at all, which I doubt.... .... And really, for "proof" you grabbed post #161 from random post on some article?

    2. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by perryizgr8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      despite all of your rambling bullshit, you cannot write apps that will properly multitask for ios AND will get listed in the official market.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    3. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you are talking rubbish. kernel multitasking != sandboxed app multitasking..

    4. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet, somehow iOS supports both.

      Go figure.

    5. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 2

      you are talking rubbish. kernel multitasking != sandboxed app multitasking..

      The anonymous that I was responding to was the one that used the term "cooperative multitasking" to describe iOS. Cooperative Multitasking has a very specific definition in regards to operating systems and iOS is definitely not a cooperative multitasking operating system. Once again, if you cared you could type, "cooperative multitasking" into your favorite search engine, click on the wikipedia link, and then read all about it.... If you cared..... Which you must not since you haven't already....

    6. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet, somehow it's impossible for apps to take advantage of full preemptive multitasking, so it may as well not be there.

    7. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1, Troll

      despite all of your rambling bullshit, you cannot write apps that will properly multitask for ios AND will get listed in the official market.

      For someone who's spectacularly wrong you sure are arrogant. First off iOS is a multitasking OS in the original sense of the word, meaning processes are running concurrently, and it's multithreaded. But I'll let that go and assume you are using multitasking in the colloquial sense, namely running several apps at once and even there you are wrong :

      "For tasks that require more execution time to implement, you must request specific permissions to run them in the background without their being suspended. In iOS, only specific app types are allowed to run in the background:

      Apps that play audible content to the user while in the background, such as a music player app
      Apps that keep users informed of their location at all times, such as a navigation app
      Apps that support Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP)
      Newsstand apps that need to download and process new content
      Apps that receive regular updates from external accessories"

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    8. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      despite all of your rambling bullshit, you cannot write apps that will properly multitask for ios AND will get listed in the official market.

      And here is what you don't get: That's a _good_ thing. As a user, I don't want apps eating up the battery life in the background. iOS is a port of MacOS X, so if Apple had wanted it, there would have been full unlimited tasking from day one. There's a good reason for the artificial limitations.

      The most generally useful use of multitasking is to finish a task in the background. App starts a download, user switches to a different app, first app finishes the download in the background. That's there. It also means the next app launches _before_ the first app has exited. Automatically. Multitasking exactly when it benefits the user. The rest is special cases where multitasking is both useful and power efficient.

    9. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this does not track with my experience. tunein radio runs all day while I do other stuff.

    10. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should probably download Pandora. I hear it's pretty good.

    11. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      iOS is a port of MacOS X, so if Apple had wanted it, there would have been full unlimited tasking from day one. There's a good reason for the artificial limitations.

      That's funny, I thought people bought phones that do what they want, not what the maker of the phone wants.

    12. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to Pandora.

      Or any of the thousands of other apps that can run in the background under iOS, today.

    13. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by toriver · · Score: 1

      What were you going to use it for that is not covered by the provided background services in iOS?

    14. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I want long battery life, and I want to not have to "manage my phone" in order to achieve that.

      What, exactly, is the benefit of allowing full multitasking to all apps all the time? Give me even one reason to buy a phone that does this.

    15. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      That's funny, I thought people bought phones that do what they want, not what the maker of the phone wants.

      You may have thought that, but you are wrong in your assumptions what people want. People don't _want_ multitasking. They want a phone that they can use, that lets them do what they want to do easily, and that has a good battery life. "Multitasking" is not something that people want. Multitasking can be a means to achieve what people want - on a desktop computer or laptop with a decent battery, it is a good way to achieve what people want. On a mobile phone, it's not.

    16. Re:Cooperative multi-tasking by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Oh boy. Typical Apple fanboi response. If Apple doesn't have it, it's a feature. I bet you I would see you defending Apple when it didn't have copy and paste too, right?

      Too bad. You can't spin it. Not having true multi-tasking is pathetic and it's definitely a missing feature. Pre-emptive multi-tasking was in UNIX, NT, and then 95 over 17 years ago. It was invented for a reason. And they had a whole lot less RAM than smartphones do today.

      When you can't switch to another program when downloading a file with dropbox, that's pathetic. Sure, the Apple official apps like safari or mail have it, but everyone else doesn't. You don't leave the job of handling multi-tasking to an App author. As this article shows, they can't even handle a stupid App that simply displays news without crashing.

      Battery life on android devices may not be great, but now with the advent of the iPhone 4S and iOS 5, they suck too (nevermind the fact that Apple still doesn't even know why, which is pathetic considering they only have ONE phone to support and they make it themselves). So they're on par, battery-wise. But yet Android has full pre-emptive multi-tasking.

      It's pathetic. And don't spin it otherwise, because you're just wrong.

      Don't spread FUD.

  8. Multiple mobile operating systems? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    One of the reasons for app crashes is the proliferation of mobile operating systems on iOS and Android. As Apple and Google have released more new operating systems...

    Apple has multiple mobile operating systems? Here i thought they just had iOS? Oh wait. According to this "professional" Google has multple mobile operating systems too! I must really be out of the loop. Maybe they should stick with just one OS and update it when they find bugs. Oh that would be cool! They could like call it the same thing but increment a number next to its name to show which updates have been applied.

    Wait! What? Why are you marking this as flaimbait? The article was flaimbait based on a bunch of hair splitting conjecture and the assumption that each update of the OS was some kind of new OS. Why shouldn't I get to join the fun?

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You shouldn't get to join the fun, because you're a fucking idiot.

      The article sucks, no lie. But they make a distinction between a crash on different versions of iOS and Android because OSes have different features in different versions, not just different bugs and glitches.

      There are 5 major versions of iOS and 4 major versions of Android. Or maybe you're browsing from a 15 year old Windows install wondering what all the fucking fuss is about with Windows 7. After all its the same name, with different numbers. Clearly, its the same operating system, just with different updates applied.

      Breaking the data down further to minor version and patch number is even helpful to demonstrate that within the same major version there are wildly different performers. Which you wouldn't know about, because they're all the same to you.

    2. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by Alunral · · Score: 1

      If you bothered reading the article, they're calling different versions of each base version a "different OS". In the same way that Windows XP is a bit different from Windows 7. Android 2.1 compared to Android 4.0. They are both Android, and are relatively compatible...but they are not the same. What works on one will not always work on the other. Not to mention not all phones run the same version of that software. When you have to flash a different ROM to update, that's not considered just updates. It's a whole new system. So yes, both Apple and Google have multiple mobile OSes. Microsoft as well, as they do count.

    3. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      right, and microsoft only has one OS as well, windows! Nevermind the different versions, service packs mobile, server editions.......

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Base version? Are you suggestion there are fundamental kernel differences in Android? Seriously? You wouldn't happen to have a link showing where they redisigned Linux four times for me would you.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    5. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Um, yes. Your correct. Microsoft has made significant, complete, total changes but still kept "Windows" in the name of their operating system. Considering the first version of Windows; Windows 1.0, Windows 2.0, Windows 3.0, wasn't even an OS, I would think that would be obvious. To say that Apple has rewritten iOS four times is absolute ignorance. To say that Google has rewritten Linux four times, when they haven't changed it even once, is complete stupidity.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    6. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      no one is saying it was a complete rewrite, but what we are saying is that the differences are there, will a program written to run on windows 1.0 work on windows 7? The point is that there are differences. Hell even at my old company we had a HUGE deal because of version checks in the config files, when SQL server 2008 came out we could NOT install our software on the system due to the version check config file. It was a simple hack of the file to tell it not to do a version check, but to act like "anything written for XX will work on newer versions of XX" is what is complete stupidity

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    7. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by Alunral · · Score: 1

      Then explain to me why something built for, say, Android 4.0 will not work on Android 1.5. Differences is the very basics. There are differences in both software and hardware. Kind of why the android devs are having troubles with stuff like 4.0's camera.

    8. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Then explain to me why something built for, say, Android 4.0 will not work on Android 1.5.

      Changes to the API. API is application interface. In its most simplistic description, the operating system is the layer between API and hardware,

      There are differences in both software and hardware.

      Adding drivers to an operating system doesn't make it a "new operating system".

      Kind of why the android devs are having troubles with stuff like 4.0's camera.

      The devs are having trouble getting the driver for the 4.0 camera's working properly. They are not rewriting the operating system for a camera driver. Adding a driver, that is loaded by the operating system, is not a "new operating system".

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    9. Re:Multiple mobile operating systems? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      no one is saying it was a complete rewrite

      There wasn't any rewrite of the operating system. The only changes to iOS and Android have been application libraries (API), drivers, and hardware. The operating systems have, for the most part, been completely untouched. Darwin and Linux are doing as fine as one would expect.

      will a program written to run on windows 1.0 work on windows 7

      Considering Windows 1.0 was a graphical application interface to (DOS) and Windows7 comprises of its own built in operating system (NT), no.

      The point is that there are differences.

      Not really. The point is, the differences are not the operating system. If the writer knew what an operating system was, his "artcle" would have been two sentences long.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  9. Removable battery by John+Bresnahan · · Score: 1

    When I owned a Motorola Droid, there were several times when I had to remove the battery to recover from the phone completely locking up.

    I don't have that option with my iPhone, but fortunately I haven't had the phone crash.

    1. Re:Removable battery by arcite · · Score: 2

      I've had to remove the battery on the Blackberry quite a few times to recover. annoying!

    2. Re:Removable battery by KazW · · Score: 1

      Motorolas are horrible, I had a Milestone for five days before going back and getting an HTC Desire. I had the same problem with the phone completely locking up. So while your point is valid, I would argue that it only applies to certain manufactures, and I have seen iPhones completely lock up as well.

      --
      Geeks don't grock information, they grep it.
    3. Re:Removable battery by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      I have had to pull the batt on my droid 2 before and i love having that option. Lets face it sometimes things go wrong. I have an ipod touch in my car and every now and again it will lock up and freeze on me. but the worst part is the only way to recover it that I have found is to wait for the batt to die and start over

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re:Removable battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could always just hold down the power button for 30 seconds for the droid to hard reset (similar to how you hard reset an iphone, except on the iphone you hold down two buttons). However you have the option to pull the battery, which only takes 5 seconds.

      So you are complaining that you had an option to reset your phone faster?

      On the other hand I use the droid3 now for about 6 months, never had to even reboot it. So I think it would be more fair to compare a same generation phones, as I assume your iphone's newer than your droid was.

    5. Re:Removable battery by BasilBrush · · Score: 1
    6. Re:Removable battery by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      When I owned a Motorola Droid, there were several times when I had to remove the battery to recover from the phone completely locking up.

      I don't have that option with my iPhone, but fortunately I haven't had the phone crash.

      That's Motorola. If you want a stable phone, try an HTC next time. I still have a G2 I bought a couple of years ago and it's never locked up (except once when I flashed the wrong firmware, but that was my fault.) And I overclock the thing from the stock 800 Mhz. to 1.2 Ghz with no problems.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    7. Re:Removable battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had an ipod touch lock up playing a beep. Trying any of the methods shown to unlock or reboot it didnt' work. Plugging it in, holding down any buttons etc. The screen was non responsive. Had to have it beep for like 6 hours til the battery went out. put it back on the usb cord after this and it worked fine. I could have fixed that issue in 1 minutes if it had a battery.

    8. Re:Removable battery by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1

      Pressing and holding both the lock and home button at the same time for about ten seconds will force the iPhone off.

    9. Re:Removable battery by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Hold the hold button and the off/on button together for about 5 seconds. That will do a hard reset of your iphone.

    10. Re:Removable battery by John+Bresnahan · · Score: 1

      So you are complaining that you had an option to reset your phone faster?

      No, I'm saying that I had to perform several hard reboots on my Droid, but I never had to do so on the iPhone 3 or iPhone 4 that I've owned. Based on my very small sample, iPhones are less likely to lock up than Android phones.

      YMMV

    11. Re:Removable battery by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I did look at that and other tips before hand, but as AC said below, it didnt make any difference, still had to wait for the batt to die.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    12. Re:Removable battery by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      If you ever get that kind of error again you might want to look at one of the jailbreaking and related tools (like tiny umbrella, redsn0w,etc.) Some of those have options that kick off a reboot by sending commands through USB for when a jailbreak goes awry and the device goes into a boot-loop. May not work in your case but worth a shot.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    13. Re:Removable battery by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You do realize you are comparing a cheaply and quickly made device to a better engineered deves, right?

      It'a not the OS.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  10. I phone should be a tool not an accessory by arcite · · Score: 2

    Going to spend $600 just to be cool? Ok. But lets be honest here, the iPhone makes phone calls just fine. Using the default Apps is also just fine. A beautiful user experience. It's only when people go totally gaga with the apps downloading every spammy, game demo, half-assed implemented app, by the dozens (or even hundreds)....then its not wonder things start crashing. As for QUALITY apps, there are arguably more of them available for iphone than android...then again, most major apps have versions for each. In other words, pick your poison and have fun. If you want to just make reliable phone calls, buy a $30 Nokia choco bar phone and be done with it.

    1. Re:I phone should be a tool not an accessory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to just make a repetitive post, log in to Slashdot and stutter with your keyboard. If you just want to be repetitive, log in to Slashdot and stutter with your keyboard.

  11. What, pretell, are the websites crashing yer ipad? by arcite · · Score: 1

    Honestly, Sarfari for iPad is the best mobile experience out there, what is causing it to crash?

  12. Version of iPad matters by blindbat · · Score: 2

    iPad 1 "crashes" a lot compared to iPad 2.

    All testing by Apple is now done on iPad 2, which has more memory. So some of the "crashing" is iOS telling the app to free up memory, and shutting it down too quickly.

    This has made the iPad 1 experience much poorer than it used to be.

    1. Re:Version of iPad matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, my iPad is crashing all the time after "upgrading" to iOS 5. Safari is the worst, it is almost impossible to surf the web and it has been like that for months now. Even with all other programs closed.
      It just works. lol :D

      One of the tradeoffs i was expecting to get from a closed platform was stability. It was really good until iOS 5 but now it is garbage.
      I might be buying a new tablet later on this year and i really liked the iPad and wasn't really considering any other. But I think I will take a look at a android based tablet and see if anyone have made a cool one now.

    2. Re:Version of iPad matters by thammoud · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points. I am experiencing the exact same on my iPad 1. It has gotten a lot worse.

    3. Re:Version of iPad matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YES! My iPad 1 has become unbearable!!!! I can't even browse around the official facebook app without the app crashing every time I scroll too fast as its loading stuff or hitting a linked site. The problem is pretty damn pervasive across all of my apps though. Infuriating!

    4. Re:Version of iPad matters by bytejammer · · Score: 1

      My iPad 1 is also close to useless for browsing. I'll think again before buying Apple again. As soon as a new generation arrives your 'old' device can be thrown in the trashcan :/

    5. Re:Version of iPad matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Apple patented that feature and is actively seeking legal action against any manufacturer that makes a phone that even looks like it has crashing apps.

    6. Re:Version of iPad matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just glad the Apple Device market isn't "fragmented"!

      -ducks...

    7. Re:Version of iPad matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My daughter "upgraded" her iPhone 3GS to the latest iOS (5?, via iTunes) -- and the phone starting crashing all the time. We refreshed it back to stock (stable) and haven't heard any complaints. I'm running 2.3.4 android (stock) and it is quite stable -- any crashes are obviously due to bad app programming. I don't know how the iPhones work, but I get updates for apps quite often in the Android market -- browsing the release notes show the majority of updates are pushing crash-fixes (though some updates provide new features, hence escalating permission requests).

  13. It boils down to managed vs non mananged language by postmortem · · Score: 1

    As many know, it is possible but tought to make C-based apps that have perfect memory management and no chance of crashing. My own applications, and hundred professional ones written in C/C++ do crash. Sometimes. And it is often hard to figure out where they crash. It could be array out of bounds, some NULL pointer de-referencing, some dependent library doing the same, etc.
    While Java-based ones never do. They do throw exception, at which point you know what/where to fix.

  14. Every OS Sucks by fwarren · · Score: 2

    Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie said it best. Every OS Sucks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI

    --
    vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    1. Re:Every OS Sucks by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie said it best. Every OS Sucks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI

      A friend of mine who used to be a car mechanic said something similar once: "All cars are garbage."

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  15. For those interested... by Ender_Stonebender · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was bored this morning, so for those interested, since the article makes it hard to extract this information:

    All iOS versions total 84.36% of crashes; all Android versions total 15.49% of crashes. The worst offenders for iOS are version 5.0.1 at 28.64% and 4.2.10 at 12.64% (with seven other version listed at above 1% of crashes). The worst offenders for Android are versions 2.3.3 at 3.86% and 2.3.4 at 3.65%, with 4 other versions listed at above 1%.

    --
    Loose things are easy to lose. You're getting your hair cut. They're going there to see their aunt.
    1. Re:For those interested... by fermion · · Score: 1
      And for the interested, this is in Forbes, a business magazine. It is not written by or for anyone who really is going to understand any kind of formal data analysis, or when it makes sense to generalize the statistics presented to a global case.

      In this case the statistics come from a company called Crittercism.It seems to be about 18 months old, and provides free and paid-for crash reporting for IOS and Android. So, for Apps that use the service, and I have no idea if a majority, plurality, minority, or every App uses this service, those on Android seem to be more reliable than those on iOS. I assume on both devices it is possible to turn of error reporting, or in some prevent it, so there is that as well.

      In any case, with the big beautiful graphs and the talk of how hard it to test an App, and how easy to get these reports and then fix the problem, it appears that the article is more a promotion for the company rather than any reliable data to make any conclusions for the reliability of an OS.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:For those interested... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      This data is so pathetic that it's hard to believe Forbes published this kind of trash. How many crashed were reported per app launched would be a better measure one would think.

      Also, the Facebook app is a piece of crap in iPhone. If the Android version is half better, it could skew the whole numbers on the study given the popularity of the app alone.

      All in all, nothing to see here, please move along.

    3. Re:For those interested... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Thanks. That's a huge difference, far more than I expected. Couldn't get that from TFA myself, it is really a terribly written piece. I looked at the first graph, where Android seemed to have an edge on iOS but by not too much.

      Maybe you understand what they are trying to say (you impressed me already by getting those two basic numbers!), but I'm also wondering: how do you measure "number of crashes"? OK a crash is a crash and they are easy to count but it's usually apps that crash; so which apps to choose? What use scenario? How many different apps? How did they collect their raw data? Are these numbers normalised one way or another? If so, how?

    4. Re:For those interested... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      I use Google's system to get crash reports. Works fine, gets me the info that I need. And when an app crashes on me I also usually will press the "report" button to help the developer.

      Doesn't Apple have anything like it for their app developers?

  16. Re:It boils down to managed vs non mananged langua by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Or you don't, at which point exception flies up through exception handlers stack all the way to the top level EH and the app gets killed with "Application was forced to close" message (on Android) or something like that.

    Java compiler just buggers you more about uncaught and not rethrown exceptions, as this is declared and checked statically.

  17. hmmm by koan · · Score: 1

    I would wager 5 quatloos that there are more "coding newbs" on IOS than Android therefore more poorly written apps on IOS.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  18. How about recent versions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I notice the complete lack of a "versions in common use" chart, for those looking to know what we'll actually see in the real world instead of a controlled testing environment.
    Anyone care to try to eke that out of the pies?

  19. Re:It boils down to managed vs non mananged langua by gabebear · · Score: 1

    I disagree

    You really don't get much more protection with Java then you do with native code on iOS. Exceptions only help you when you know you need to catch them. Null pointer dereferencing is pretty much a non-issue in ObjC/Cocoa because of the way messages are passed(at least no more than java.lang.NullPointerException). When you are multithreaded in Java it's trivial to make the simplest code throw a ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException or NullPointerException when you hava your logic wrong.

    The data we are looking at is from the small subset of apps which use Crittercism rather than TestFlight (why is anyone not using TestFlight?). It's not meant to be representational of the real-world. It would be interesting to know what iOS-based and what Android-based apps use Crittercism.

  20. Re:What, pretell, are the websites crashing yer ip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    facebook.com and www.esprit.nl crash daily. I have an iPad 1 with iOS 5.0.1.

    Just browse for a while on www.esprit.nl (click on a few links) and Safari (or Atomic browser) will crash.

    iOS 4 crashed a lot less.

  21. Really? No decent telephony by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2

    So is a BB 9810 or 9900 not a smartphone? I went down this route because many of our customers are of an age that they still use voice when I wouldn't, and the telephone functions on BB are still excellent. I have quite bad hearing, but my 9810 works perfectly for me.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Really? No decent telephony by s4ltyd0g · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually I miss my old BB as it was a good phone and gave me email. It may be a smart phone, but it never had the apps that the Google and Apple offerings have.
      I haven't used a BB in a couple of years now so I have no idea what they are like now. I will be checking them out though on my next phone purchase as I do not want another Android or Apple phone.

      Perhaps age has something to do with it, but I really need the phone functionality to do my job. It seems that every time I need to make a phone call with my Google phone, I have no battery left. They just don't keep a charge for any length of time and woe to you if you actually want to run apps on it. At any point in time, if I take a glance around the office, I will see virtually all of my colleagues at their desks with their phones permanently plugged into an outlet.

    2. Re:Really? No decent telephony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of apps crashing, on the BB you get these wonderful situations that require a hard reset or battery removal because the whole device has hung.

      BlackBerries are are better dumb phones than they are smartphones, there smartphone features are very out of date.

    3. Re:Really? No decent telephony by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

      It seems that every time I need to make a phone call with my Google phone, I have no battery left. They just don't keep a charge for any length of time and woe to you if you actually want to run apps on it. At any point in time, if I take a glance around the office, I will see virtually all of my colleagues at their desks with their phones permanently plugged into an outlet.

      Current Blackberry models are not any better. After 1.5 years of use, my Onyx 9700 barely make it to half day, and I'm only using it for BBM, email and occasional voice. It seems that if you subscribe to a pretty active BBM group, your battery will drain faster

    4. Re:Really? No decent telephony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I agree, the BB is first and foremost a phone. Secondly it's email and messaging..

      That's why I bought it. Just needed phone and email, could care less about 'internet'

    5. Re:Really? No decent telephony by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      But then why not buy a $70 phone and a $300 tablet? Cheaper in the end, and you get a much nicer internet experience.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  22. State of software quality by mysterious_mark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think this has as much to do with Android and iOS as it does with the state of software quality in general. The current state of software quality is abysmal, since the shift to scripting languages and web apps as the primary platform about ten years, the science and art of writing robust and reliable software for OO, event driven, asynchronous platforms like iOS or Android has become an almost lost skill. Unfortunately failure modes for these platforms are more dramatic than for web apps, in that you'll likely get a crash rather than 'error on page' message. The situation has been further exacerbated by management's insistence an always hiring the lowest quality developers they can find, outsourcing, H1 B's etc. If you use low quality and inexperienced devs, you'll likely get an unstable and and unreliable application on these types of platforms. This should be a wake up call to the industry in general in that we need to focus and engineering, quality and reliability, and not just minimizing cost.

    1. Re:State of software quality by jbolden · · Score: 1

      When do you think there was this golden age of uncrashy software? Prior to the webapps and scripting we had lots of VB desktop apps. Before that pointer errors and memory leaks as the rule not the exception.

      Of course we need to focus on quality. But Americans in general won't pay for quality, and quality is very expensive. Apple is (very nicely) training them to pay for quality.

    2. Re:State of software quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hrmph. This H-1B is now sorely tempted not to answer his American co-workers' (rudimentary) C++ questions tomorrow.

    3. Re:State of software quality by arose · · Score: 1

      Who wouldn't want to return to the good old days of crash free Windows 95 apps!

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  23. 3.66% WTF? by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 1

    Wait, this study shows 3.66% crash on launch rate on iOS? I realize maybe my personal experience will not align with the data and all, but I have had iOS crash on me once and six times I've seen apps crash or screw up to the point I had to relaunch them. That is over a period of several years. I'm guessing there is something weird with the methodology here, perhaps not a representative sample? Am I truly that much of an outlier?

  24. GIGO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw no evidence that crittercism was normalizing their data. What they called "normalizing" was just breaking crashes down by version.

    I felt that I knew less about the problem after I read the article than before, and not in a good way.

    1. Re:GIGO by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Better analysis is to look at the first pie chart, which has both iOS and Android. iOS has a little less than 75% of crashes. From Crittercism's own data, about 75% of the 200+ million app launches they tracked were from iOS.

  25. How is this "normalized"? by roguegramma · · Score: 2

    What i wonder is, how is this data supposed to be "normalized" as the slashdot summary suggests?

    It appears to me the number of crashes would be proportional to the number of OSes out there of that version?

    --
    Hey don't blame me, IANAB
  26. I read this.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Crittercism, which is backed by Google Ventures...." so why should I believe this data is accurate?

  27. This is not a valid study by Ronin+Developer · · Score: 1

    For starters, it's not the OS that crashes...it's the apps. Let's look at how many app crashes take out the OS and make it crash...not studied.

    As for the apps - Android is Java based - As such, it is afforded the memory protection that garbage collection entails - at the expense of speed. iOS apps tend to be natively compiled code. Memory management is based on reference counter - in the past, that was a manual process. Now, it's a little easier with the new XCode 4, but still and iffy proposition.

    iOS throws an exception when a memory allocation fails. Too many developers fail to properly handle that exception and clean up memory where possible. The default behavior is that the app will just terminate.

    Bottom line is that is easier to write code that won't crash on these platforms using Java than a native code compiler. What would be more interesting and of value is to examine:

    1. Why, exactly, do these apps crash?
    2. What tools were used to write them?
    3. Did the crash take out the OS also? While an app that just closes pisses me off - one that crashes the OS REALLY pisses me off - like my Blackberry Storm that would just reboot in the middle of a call.

    1. Re:This is not a valid study by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      I've never had the OS of any of my iOS devices crash (I've had apps crash on occasion but it's really quick to get them open and going again). My Android phone (a $300 Motorola model, new last July) has many app crashes, many more than I see on iOS. Further, I've had the OS crash 5 times in the 7 months I've owned the phone. It's more stable with a custom ROM than it was with stock but it's still far more unstable than anything I see in iOS.

      Yes, most of the time they are app crashes and not OS crashes but the OS crashes occur too.

  28. Can we have an explicit summary? by bourdux · · Score: 1

    A summary shouldn't be a cliffhanger IMHO. Why do I have to read TFA to get the result of the study? Could the result be included in TFS?

    1. Re:Can we have an explicit summary? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Of course it should.

      There job is the same as headlines: get people to read the article. I mean in the media, In civilized industries the summer give a brief overview of the content.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  29. Slashdot got trolled by CODiNE · · Score: 3, Informative

    This chart has already been torn apart on Junk charts. Basically their statistics and reporting are so vague as to make it worthless. But yes, you may be surprised ... lies, damn lies and statistics.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    1. Re:Slashdot got trolled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh, at least something to throw at "no crashes at all, because walled garden!" trolls.

      Otherwise useless indeed.

    2. Re:Slashdot got trolled by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      This chart has already been torn apart on Junk charts. Basically their statistics and reporting are so vague as to make it worthless. But yes, you may be surprised ... lies, damn lies and statistics.

      An interesting thing mentioned in the article that you linked to: What happens if the app crashes? I use one game on the iPad that crashes reasonably often, but mostly immediately after it starts, so you just launch it again. It's a bit annoying, I would be ashamed if it was my code crashing that often, but the game is quite entertaining, so I keep running it. If a crash was a Windows "Blue Screen of Death" style experience with a two minute reboot, the app would have long been deleted.

      This game alone would account for a significant amount of crashes. But only because the annoyance of the crash is so little that I keep using it even though it crashes. If the crashes were more annoying, then it wouldn't be started anymore and therefore would never, ever crash again.

    3. Re:Slashdot got trolled by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Meh, at least something to throw at "no crashes at all, because walled garden!" trolls.

      Otherwise useless indeed.

      Cute strawman you have there. When are he, you, the cowardly lion, and the tin man going to see the wizard?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  30. STUDY BACKED BY GOOGLE by frnic · · Score: 1

    For those that don't want to read the article and disclamers...

  31. Makes sense by Windwraith · · Score: 2

    iOS has a lot of attention and probably has more first-time and low-quality coders than Android. If Android was more popular, iOS apps would be less crashy instead.

    It's common sense, really. And says nothing of the platform, only the dev crowds drawn to them.

    1. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, I'd think Android has more noob devs, what with Market overtaking the AppStore in numbers and lower entry barrier.

      Anyways, seems like this article really says only "iOS apps that use Crittercism's crash reporting instrumentation crash more often than Android apps that use that instrumentation"

      Kinda like report a few months ago about "there's more new apps using iOS than Android" which was in fact "there's more iOS developers who use Flurry Analytics than Android devs who use Flurry".

  32. Big Question by rabtech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article did not clarify if they removed the "Low Memory" and "Active Assertions Beyond Permitted Time" entries from the crash log.

    When iOS has memory demands it will kill suspended background processes and this shows up in the crash logs with a low memory reason. When a background process is running (not suspended) to complete some task (like downloading/uploading data, etc) and it exceeds the allowed execution time, iOS will kill it with an assertions beyond permitted time reason.

    Neither of these are actual "crashes" as you might think of them and in fact users are often completely unaware the app was killed because when you switch back to the app it just reloads its state where it left off (and well-written apps actually restore your position in the UI).

    If these two items weren't excluded then the results for iOS are worthless.

    The article also pointed out that iOS 5 is new and there are likely to be crashes generated due to apps not being updated yet and that Android is likely to have a similar problem as ICS actually starts rolling out (or people buy new devices when they are stuck with a non-upgradable device).

    --
    Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
    1. Re:Big Question by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      When iOS has memory demands it will kill suspended background processes and this shows up in the crash logs with a low memory reason. When a background process is running (not suspended) to complete some task (like downloading/uploading data, etc) and it exceeds the allowed execution time, iOS will kill it with an assertions beyond permitted time reason.

      To elaborate: You start the first app, then start the second app, putting the first one into the background. The first app will write its state to the SSD, so the OS can now kill it at any time and restart it, going back to the exact same state. However, the app is not killed, just suspended. If you go back to it, it's back without any delay. Now start the third, fourth, fifth app etc. so eventually you run out of memory. At that point one of the suspended apps gets killed. Which takes no time and has no negative side effect except that going back to that app takes a bit longer now.

      If that is not filtered out, then _every_ app will eventually crash because that is the only way to stop it! But this report also counts "crashes as percentage of application starts". With the older iOS versions, an app would be launched every time you went back to it. So the ratio (crashes / launches) would be a lot lower.

  33. Oh who cares? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    really? 99% of apps are cheap garbage whipped out as fast as they can to do only 1 thing, make a buck for the author. who gives a fuck if your dancing cat app or hand warmer app crashes or not

  34. Contract is really only 1.5 to 2 years by perpenso · · Score: 1

    ... $150+/month contract for 3 years to get unlimited local voice, text, data, and 10 hours of North America long distance/month ...

    My plan's period is 2 years and the monthly fee is about $65. Of course I am grandfathered with respect to unlimited data, I'm not sure what that would add if I were a new customer. At about 1.5 years they will waive the remaining 0.5 if I am upgrading to a new phone and starting a new 2 year contract.

    ... I can get the same device for under $100 ...

    An iPhone 3GS is free. We are past the point where one has to pay for smart phones.

    1. Re:Contract is really only 1.5 to 2 years by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      An iPhone 3GS is pretty much EOL. You know that iOS versions past 5.1 are highly unlikely to support them because Apple always drops the version 2 behind the current, and the 3GS is up next. It's free because it's just that far behind.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    2. Re:Contract is really only 1.5 to 2 years by perpenso · · Score: 2

      An iPhone 3GS is pretty much EOL. You know that iOS versions past 5.1 are highly unlikely to support them because Apple always drops the version 2 behind the current, and the 3GS is up next. It's free because it's just that far behind.

      Its the hardware not the OS that decides such things. Apple will most likely always offer three hardware generations, the latest starting at $200, the previous at $100 and the oldest at $0. The 3GS won't go away until the iPhone 5 arrives and pushes the iPhone 4 into the $0 position.

      For now the the 3GS has the current version of iOS and all the new functionality that comes with it. Since the 3GS is current in this respect and is still being sold it is still targeted by developers today. It may not be new but it is still a highly functional smart phone.

  35. Free smart phones are available ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    ... most people (at least in the US) buy their phone subsidized with a contract renewal, so the price for even a top-tier phone is $200-$300 ...

    We are past that point in history where one has to pay for a smartphone. One can get an iPhone 3GS for free with the sort of plan you describe. Its not the latest model but it is still supported by the latest version of iOS and is highly capable. Not top-tier but second-tier is pretty good these days.

    1. Re:Free smart phones are available ... by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      By "free" you mean $2000 over 2 years.

    2. Re:Free smart phones are available ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      By "free" you mean $2000 over 2 years.

      No, my iPhone's plan works out to about $1,500 over two years. My former phone, a Razor flip phone, worked out to about $1,000 over two years. So $500 over two years to move from a feature phone to a smart phone, actually less adjusting for inflation.

      More importantly subsidized Android based phones require comparable plans.

    3. Re:Free smart phones are available ... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      On Optus in Australia you can get an iPhone 4S on whatever 24-month plan you want for $26 per month, which ends up at $624 over 2 years. At the moment they are subsidizing that with a $20 per month handset credit so you're only paying $6 per month for the phone so it's $144.
      The iphone 4 is $5 per month on the $29 per month plan, so it's $34 per month for 24-months with total cost of $816, that includes phone service and data.

  36. Apple's "walled garden" by Diane702 · · Score: 1

    Just a few months ago I attended a training by an Apple rep. He insisted the use of iTunes (he called it the walled garden) and Apple's "rigorous" testing meant that all their apps would work on all their devices. No crashing. No incompatibilities. From experience, husband's iPad 2 crashes more than my Toshiba Thrive.

  37. What about OS stability? by asdf7890 · · Score: 1

    My phone (Motorola, running Android 2.1 as they've not bothered upgrading it despite hints that they would around the time that I bought the thing, luckily I got it dirt cheap so I don't feel too cheated) reboots itself a couple of times per day. It has never happened while I've been actively using it for anything (calls, messaging, ...) but I know when it does it if it is close to me and not hidden in a pocket that muffles the sound, as there is a characteristic beep when it reboots. I can tell when it has done it if I wasn't in earshot as the recently run apps screen is clear next time I look at it.

    I don't run anything much significant app wise (Opera Mobile and Mini are on there, as are a game or two to wend away the time when the weather puts me on a bus to work instead of cycling, and a remote access thingy that only runs once in a blue moon when I need it), and I've tried completely removing all of them which makes no difference.

    This isn't app instability, it is either OS or hardware instability. Even if an app were to be the root cause then it is still an OS problem as one app should not be able to have that effect. I've seen many people complain of the same thing on this and other phones. There are those that suggest "well, it is your fault for running such an old version of the OS" but as I have absolutely no choice in the matter I don't accept that - if the phone manufacturers using Android want to keep forcing the appliance model on us then they can take the blame when the appliance they have supplied fails in some way.

    At this point my next phone may still be an Android device, though it'll be at least six months before I switch so we'll see what happens over that time. What Google do with the bit of Motorola they've bought is something that could be significant. I refuse to join the Apple lock-in club (if I'm paying that much for a general purpose computing device I want control over what I can run on it thanks, if I just wanted a phone I'd buy something far cheaper) but a modern Windows phone might be something I'd consider depending on what I find when I research the matter closer to change time.

    1. Re:What about OS stability? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      I truly feel for you. I seriously wouldn't be able to tolerate the entire OS going down. This is modern hardware and software, such crashes plain and simply shouldn't happen. App crashes, fine, the OS can't cancel out stupid developers.

      However, if I were to blame somebody, I'd definitely look at Motorola. Their software tends to be absolute garbage (Hello, Motoblur!), so I wouldn't be surprised if this extended to drivers. Unfortunately, Google has very little say in those areas, or at least they didn't at that point. I'm hoping to see a major turnabout with Motorola being Google now.

      In the meantime, I have to say to any and all /. reader: just pick up Nexus phones. Even if things like the SGSII or HTC Sensation sound nice, there are just so many advantages to going vanilla. Stable software, good, solid hardware, high polish (certainly higher than most third-party additions like TouchWiz), extremely fast updates, etc. I have a Nexus S and outside of some envy towards the Galaxy Nexus (because I'm a hardware geek), I couldn't be more pleased.

  38. I've only used iOS.... by SpryGuy · · Score: 2

    ...but the crashiest apps on my iPhone have always been the apps included with the OS. The AppStore crashes on me the most. The Mail app is second. It's very rare that any app that I've downloaded actually crashes on me. Maybe I'm just lucky.

    Not a trend, just a data point.

    --

    - Spryguy
    There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
  39. Should be Android by FalcDot · · Score: 2

    The thing is, it really should be Android. I mean, under Android you're free to develop and distribute an app designed just for crashing the phone. I'm sure such a thing would never get past the Apple censors.

  40. New to this... by ukemike · · Score: 1

    I'm sorta new to this.

    I got my first smartphone in mid-December. It's a T-mobile Galaxy S2. I was not aware that crashing was a problem with smartphones. Mine hasn't ever crashed or locked up. I do have one app that crashes sometimes, Waze. It's a little annoying but they fixed the main problem in the recent update. It's not like I'm not willing to try apps out. I think I have about 52 installed right now.

    So I hate to seem smug, but the big news of this article to me was that apparently many smartphones have instability issues. I'm terribly sorry to hear that.

    --
    -- QED
  41. Inaccurate summary made accurate ;-) by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    It's a shame you didn't trawl through the article either, because if you had, you would have seen that it was about the applications crashing, not iOS or Android. In this particular article, I'm not seeing any evidence of OS unreliability for these platforms.

    What's shocking is the trend over time, where lately (the figures are broken up by calendar quarters) applications are crashing about 3% of the time?!? That's hard to believe. If I had any desktop app that crashed that often, it wouldn't be installed for very long.

    This suggests that either the top two mobile platforms are experiencing a crisis in unusually shitty software having recently and suddenly appeared, or there's something funny within that data (e.g. are a small handful of recently-popular apps crashing 100% of the time, messing up the numbers for the whole? Is there some very popular beta test going on out there?).

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Inaccurate summary made accurate ;-) by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Both platforms will kill an app to make more memory available to foreground apps. The forced killing looks like a crash from the app's perspective.

  42. Re:What, pretell, are the websites crashing yer ip by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

    washingtonpost.com crashes Safari on my iPad frequently but not always. It's worse in articles with a comment section. It's usable, but annoying.

  43. Linux crashing more, isn't the actual expectation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Linux should crash more because it supports more architectures than Windows.

    This apparently difference between reality and expectation can be resolved by realizing that the expectation was itself unreasonable.

    If you spend a lot of time maintaining software, there's a pattern you sometimes see. There will be a few different cases that are similar, but not identical, to one another, and they start accumulating quirks and don't share a lot of code. Then one day someone wants to add another case and you, as the programmer, decide "that's the last straw," and unify all the cases into a general solution in order to save time (because saving time, not maximizing the quality or reliability of the software, is what you actual goal always is). Once you do that, as a bonus, you happen to get better reliability, single-spots where you can maybe spend a little effort on optimization, etc.

    Generalism pays off big, when it's possible to do it. Back to the topic at hand, a solution for n*10 things probably really does crash less than a solution for n things.

    As Windows app development moves from, say, x86-only to x86-and-ARM, its programmers are going to be thinking in terms of "there's two ways" rather than "there's many ways." I don't blame them for mistakenly thinking like that, but it's going to cost them. They're going to grow up a little, but they'll still have a long way to go.

  44. Re:MOD PARENT UP by ArcherB · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, informative.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  45. The Walled Garden of Doom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the Walled Garden App Store doesn't prevent frequently crashing apps from entry, but does make pushing updates harder?

    Go figure I guess all the Hype about the Walled Garden App Store Protecting you, don't protect your user experience just Apple's Profits.

  46. How much of this is differences in philosophy? by Bogtha · · Score: 1

    iOS is very aggressive in killing misbehaving apps, while Android seems content to let them carry on until it simply can't continue. I wonder how much of the difference can be attributed to Android giving apps more leeway rather than a difference in app quality?

    On a side note, that was a horribly written article. It sounded like somebody who wasn't familiar with technology was repeating something they didn't understand. GPS, cameras, and language support can crash apps? What?

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  47. cata by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Android is the best. Here u cand find a lot of very interesting andoid apps.

  48. Recovery? by synapse7 · · Score: 1

    Using both android and iphone apps, I'm not sure I could say one is more stable over the other, but what about recovery. If an android app crashes you can go into applications and force quit, restart and it is fixed! What is the procedure for recovering a crashed app on an iphone? Opera and pandora have crashed on my iphone, I attempted recovery by powering off the iphone and uninstalling and reinstalling the apps only to arrive in the sane non-functional state. After a day or so of ignoring the issue they seem to be "restarted" and work correctly again.

  49. Windows Phone by DogDude · · Score: 1

    I would've liked to see Windows Phones included in this article. I'm really curious how they measure up. I have yet to have anything crash since I got the phone a month ago.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  50. Sponsored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Normally its really highlighted if it were an other sponsored MS investigation....Seems google can get away with it as being one of the major investors in Crittercism.

  51. I had hoped it would have been interesting by geekoid · · Score: 1

    instead of another piss poor study.

    Of course this is the same thing that always happens when people compare MS it OS X.

    One has a very specific hard ware upgrade path, as well as a tiny pathway tom get apps to the device, the other is a more dicerese platform, and ahd a very waide path to get apps. Some yeah, it crashes and has more problems...but it's the wrong comparison.

    A good comparison doesn't Compare Apples to window, it compares a specific Apple PC with a specific Windows PC.

    Same thing with smart device. You don't lump the iPhone against every other device running Android. You compare it against specific devices running android... preferably a similar device.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  52. Re:It boils down to managed vs non mananged langua by geekoid · · Score: 1

    "You really don't get much more protection with Java then you do with native code on iOS

    Up to iOS 5, that statement is blatantly false.

    I have looked at 5s new ARC, so I'll leave thatout.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  53. Sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have just now reached my limit. This is it, I am sick of not speaking up.

    Android and iOS are operating systems. Comparing the applications available for each is like comparing which nails hardware stores have to sell. The hardware store is the OS, with its varied offerings. The nails are the applications, the things you buy and then use. All the hardware stores sell nails, the nails come from different manufacturers, all the nails are suitable for a different purpose... but do you blame the hardware store if a nail breaks, or comes with no point on it? Do you blame the hardware store if you buy a box of nails that turns out to be screws? No, you blame... ... wait for it ... ...the people that made the nails!

    In the case where the hardware store is the manufacturer of the nails, then you are correct. So bundled applications can be correctly ranted about in this manner. However, I believe that we are talking about applications available for the OS and not just the ones that come on the phone.

    Why do people blame the operating system of smart phones when the applications don't work? "This phone is cr*p, > keeps breaking". Every time I hear this, I die a little inside. The only time this is actually the fault of the OS is if you are using an application designed for an older version, and even this is the fault of the user for not checking which versions the application works on.

    Moreover, why do people tout the operating system as superior because someone wrote an application for it? /rant.

  54. whole article has terrible approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its like looking for the highest car crash rates by seatbelt color. Does the color even have a relevant impact?
     
      We're struggling to find relevant information from the statistics provided in this article. I would bet thats because there are other factors with a MUCH bigger influence on crashing than the OS version. Those unknown factors could be determined by statistics which included more details than just OS version. It could be all 2.3.4 OS devices had a particular characteristic which is yet unidentified.
     
    dumb article is dumb.

  55. good enough by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    I don't run a lot of applications on my smartphone; the important features are email, texting (teenage daughter...) and phone, with a small amount of browsing. The BB was perfect for me as it was email first (my most used function) phone second (as good as any dedicated phone I've owned) and texting third (the best keyboard in the business). When BES started to become unreliable, I switched to Android, and it's been just slightly behind the blackberry for usability. I get one or two "forced close" on apps per week, mostly novelty stuff I don't really need.

    Compared to Windows Mobile, the BB and Android are both huge wins, in that neither have system resource crashes. (The Windows audio driver would die several times a day, and the screen driver two or three times a week.) I think this is an important distinction -- an app may crash and life goes on, but if parts of the OS crash on a regular basis, you have a problem.

    My company issues iphones on request, and I was tempted at first, but on seeing the problems others were having with phone calls, I declined. I'm sure it's a great internet platform, but calls are important to me. I like to think that's the primary reason, but I have to admit that another reason I don't own an iphone is that I didn't want to be associated with the Apple fanatics in my workgroup. I have never camped on the sidewalk to get a new electronic device... or anything, actually, and I didn't want to be associated with those who did this regularly.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.