The Gradual Death of the Brick and Mortar Tech Store

Cutting_Crew writes "As we all know brick and mortar stores have been closing left and right recently. We had CompUSA, Borders and Circuit City all close their doors within the last 4 years. According to an article on Forbes.com, it is spelled out pretty clearly why Best Buy is next in line to shut its doors for good. Some of the reasons highlighted include a 40% drop is Best Buy stock in 2011, lack of vision regarding their online services, management too concerned with store sales instead of margins and blatant disregard for quality customer service."

Comments

Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[n1ywb]

Thank god we still have Radio Shack. I went in recently and found they were even selling arduinos. I've bought a bunch of components there for my electronics projects. It's not Fry's, but at least there's one 10 minutes away from my home in Nowhereville Vermont.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Anonymous Coward]

My local radio shack.... I go through cycles of "boycotting" and going there. They have a high turnover rate. At times the employees are just terrible. I mean sell my a camera with no cords to it and charge me a 20% stocking fee when I take it back because I'm that annoyed.

Best Buy, similar thing. I only go there when I know what I want. On vacation they tried charging me $200 for repairs I was able to do myself after purchasing the tools I had left at home for $40. Of course, if you don't know what you are doing this could be a fair price. A month ago I went there to buy a new computer. I narrowed it down to one model, but I had a question. Tried getting an employee to help for half an hour. Then I spent a half-hour surfing on my smart phone for the information. It didn't help that during this surfing I was in ear-short of an employee being flirted to by a person who claimed to be an employee from another branch on their day off.

I don't have a local Fry's. I hear from people like you that they are great. However, Radioshack and Best Buy have been becoming increasingly terrible experiences with me. It is practically to the point I only go there if I know exactly what I want already and I don't want to mess with shipping.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Sorthum]

I've long thought that Radio Shack must be a front for the mob; there's no realistic way they could still be in business selling overpriced cell phones and inexpensive components to hobbyists...

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[twotacocombo]

Radio Shack these days is a shadow of it's former self. I went there with my dad as a kid, and remember shelves full of electrical and radio crap that I couldn't even comprehend. I went in there for the first time in ages about 3 years ago.. holy crap. It looked more like an AT&T store than the Radio Shack of old. People were lined up to pay their phone bills, and the walls were lined with cell phones and MP3 players and whatnot. Only in the back corner were any sort of electrical components, and nobody could really help me find what I was looking for. It's almost as if someone bought the Radio Shack name, and slapped it on a completely different store...

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[QuasiSteve]

Thank god we still have Radio Shack

I saw a Radio Shack a bit back in a mall - that was just filled with cell phones and cell phone accessories.

I also was at a big Fry's Electronics... they had some stuff, but it's not like you could just pick up some random resistor or even set of resistors.

For components, and arduino's etc., online is really your friend.

What I don't get, however, is the projection of Best Buy going away. Would that be in favor of Walmarts and the like? Because I can't imagine somebody buying a a big screen TV or even a laptop based solely on online descriptions (unless you're determined to get Apple gear in which case going to a store and poking at the laptop adds nothing to the decision-making process).
They might still buy them online to take advantage of lower pricing, of course..

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[SJHillman]

For a long time, Radio Shack was crap for everything other than RC trucks. RJ-45 jacks were $5 for a 2 pack... I usually buy a 50 pack for $5-$10. Lately I've seen a big increase in individual components at a competitive price - I stocked up on LEDs and switches last time I was there

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[viperidaenz]

There is a franchise in Aus/NZ called Dick Smith. Same thing happened. Up until around 10 years ago they were an electronics store. 1/4 of the floor was components, 1/4 for audio, 1/4 for phones and 1/4 for computers.

Now its 1/4 cell phones, 1/2 computers and tvs, 1/5 audio and the last tiny section electronics.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[mjwx]

Thank god we still have Radio Shack. I went in recently and found they were even selling arduinos. I've bought a bunch of components there for my electronics projects. It's not Fry's, but at least there's one 10 minutes away from my home in Nowhereville Vermont.

Australia lost anything resembling radio shack years ago. Dick Smith Electronics was once a store where you could go in and buy capacitors, electronics kits (pre-arduino days) and just about anything else you need. Now days they sell phone plans, Norton AV and overpriced HDMI cables.

If I want electronics components I go online, especially if I dont want to pay a 400% mark up (this is not hyperbole, it's Australia).

But I figure this is the way all shops are going. Frontage is becoming less and less important with the advent of smart phones. An online business with a warehouse in an industrial district near the airport is just as competitive as a store-front in the CBD with millions walking past each day. If I see a PC component I want in a store, the first thing I'll do is look up prices on StaticIce to see how much cheaper it is if I order online. I dont think the traditional storefront is going to survive for too many more decades, rather we'll start to see kiosks attached to large automated warehouses (basically forklifts on rails). You buy what you want at the kiosk and it gets picked out and delivered to you shortly. We're already hallway there with Australian supermarkets providing an order online function and having that delivered to your house.

I think people are getting over the appeal of seeing a product and will happily give it up for some savings. Obviously this doesn't apply to all industries but to things we consider a chore like grocery shopping are the prime candidates.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Danieljury3]

Isn't 1/5 a bit generous. I went into one last year and the only electronics stuff they had was a soldering iron. I think at the time I was looking for some solder which they didn't have. Jaycar is the place to go for electronics stuff in Aus/NZ

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[youngone]

Yes, and all the knowledgable, friendly staff must have moved to Jaycar as well. The staff at Dick Smith are friendly enough, but they seem to know nothing.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Pubstar]

Frys is good as long as: A) You know exactly what you want and B) You avoid the white sticker of doom. I went in, bought a Razer Lycosa keyboard from them. I kept getting phantom keystrokes from the keyboard. No problem, just update firmware? Didnt fix it. New drivers? Didn't fix it. Different computer? Didn't fix it. Okay, so the keyboard is obviously broken. After talking to someone at Razer, they told me that the keyboard was faulty and to return it instead of sending it to them for replacement. I get into Fry's, tell them its broken, and I watch them repack it, slap on a 5% discount sticker on it, and have someone go put it back on the shelf. Oh, and don't even get me started on how many DOA HDDs my dad and I bought from them that all had white stickers.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[cheater512]

I needed about 30 meters of low voltage DC cable (figure 8) which my local Dick Smith had in stock.

Took 30 minutes to buy it. I couldn't see it anywhere and when I asked someone they pointed at the opposite side of the store.
After I went through isle by isle I found it between the printers and cordless phones. Once I had found it it was easy though.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Cryacin]

Unfortunately Jaycar doesn't seem to be doing so well. Us geeks need to pull out our wallets and start buying more electronics again.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[lymond01]

Reality is that people don't need to build cool gadgets anymore. Cool gadgets are mainstream. And fixing digital circuit boards no longer requires colored resistors. You just toss it out and buy a new product.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Algae_94]

Awesome quality control. Rather than waste their time confirming your diagnosis, they waste the next guy that buys its time.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[mcavic]

I like your sister already.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[symbolset]

Maybe you'll find this funny: Even the CEO can't figure out how Radio Shack is still in business.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Algae_94]

If you look around, you may find independent electronic stores that have resistors, capcitors, and other components. I haven't seen a large chain that carries that type of stuff since, well since Radio Shack went more towards consumer goods.

I think the real question of whether a product makes sense to sell in a brick and mortar store is "does this need a salesperson?". For resistors the answer is obviously "no". If you are looking for a resistor you need to know what resistance you need and a salesguy can't help you guess. Another important question is, "Will hands on experience help sell the product?". It's hard to think that the average Joe will want to buy a TV online without seeing the picture and getting a feel for the size of it.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[JWSmythe]

Funny, she didn't charge me a thing.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[number11]

What I don't get, however, is the projection of Best Buy going away. Would that be in favor of Walmarts and the like? Because I can't imagine somebody buying a a big screen TV or even a laptop based solely on online descriptions

They'll stay around a while for the TVs and refrigerators, you're not going to buy a refrigerator online (though the home improvement chains offer serious competition for appliance business). People will get their computers at places like MicroCenter, which gets the big box store stuff right, at least as it applies to computers.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[dgatwood]

I've never seen this, and I return defective products to Fry's at least three or four times per year. If you tell them the item is defective, they put a sticker on it, but the sticker says "Return to vendor". They only stick the rebate sticker on it if you tell them you changed your mind about it. So either you weren't clear enough when you told them that it was defective, or you went to a Fry's store that is poorly run compared with my local store.

I'm dubious about returns because I worry about parts being missing, and I'm dubious about returned hard drives because I wonder if the previous customer dropped them, but for most things, the sticker of doom doesn't bother me too much. Usually it just means that I saved a couple of bucks.

That said, it may depend on the store. Which Fry's store was this?

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Sorthum]

I really don't think that selling $3 packs of capacitors to hobbyists is sustainable in 2012...

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[n1ywb]

I agree RatShack has gone downhill, and it's especially unfortunate that they no longer sell amateur radio gear. But I think it's actually been improving of late. They carry way more components than they used to and they finally took my advice and put them in drawers. They still have solder, RF adapters, antennas, some basic computer parts, kits, books, arduinos, basic stamps, 100 in 1 electronics sets (I've already bought one for my 2 year old, can't get 'em started too early!) Radio Shack is a hell of a lot better than nothing and let's hope this positive trend continues.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[tchuladdiass]

The other question is, Does this product cell in small quantities for a small price, which would cost 10x more to ship it? I hate buying a 25 cent component and paying 5 buck for shipping and "handling".

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[JonySuede]

And fixing digital circuit boards no longer requires colored resistors.

You are right, nowadays it only consist of changing busted capacitors... I never saw another defect in a modern electronic device. Sure my sample is small since I do this as a hobby but it must be one the most frequent sources of failures or I won at the sampling lottery...

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[dgatwood]

Between Fry's and Radio Shack, I've generally been able to find most of the components I need for most hobby projects. They have a pretty good selection of resistors, capacitors, etc. as long as they have them in stock. Unfortunately, it often takes two or three stores to find them in sufficient quantity. Hint: for components, always go to Campbell. Never go to Sunnyvale. YMMV with San Jose.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[griffjon]

What Brick-and-mortar store can hope to compete with the internet for commodity-level components? It's not even fair to hope they would. I mean, cmon - Best Buy stocks even-further-overpriced Monster Cables as their entry-level cable. I don't fault the Shack for seeking higher rungs on the value chain. And I'm hardly a fan of either the Shack ("You have questions, we have blank stares") or Best Buy ("Best means most expensive!"). But, I do fear for the complete loss of generalist tech stores. A book is a book is a book, but when deciding between tablets or notebook PCs, or the like, actual interaction with the device answers a gazillion questions that don't seem to have answers on websites.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone in the Central Valley (California), with *2* Fry's stores, I can tell you this is SOP for their stores. 9/10 return stickered items are missing parts, many of them are faulty (not all, and occasionally you'll find swaths of items that were returned because customers often mistook what they were, good way to get a discount assuming everything is in the box!). But they'll have memory with bad sectors, cpus with bent pins (gotten both pre-LGA Intel, and all models of Athlons like that!), motherboards with missing accessories, etc. Basically anything with a sticker on it might turn out to be unusable giving you a 15-30 minute drive back to the store to replace it (although in their defense Fry's return policy is EXTREMELY flexible as long as you return it within 14 days (for most internal parts) or 30 days for everything else, assuming it's not your third time returning the item (They've had junk before that item in the batch was dead, think it was older MP3 players or something, but not a pleasant experience to have to come back 3 times to return something!)

Additionally: I had a friend working for them for 2 years who after a disagreement with their manager was told to sign a VQ rather than be fired (to avoid paying unemployment to him). Another employee I overheard after they set up electronic signins next to the sales board who had to quit and get rehired (thus losing seniority) in order to shift back from full time employment to part time due to schooling. Their employee handling is horrible, and the people who aren't constant turnovers fall into the categories of (career underachievers, mostly buerocratic, and older layoffs who can't find work anywhere else. The latter are often the nicest and most helpful people in the store, while the former make you really wish there was somewhere better to shop.) Sad, but another sign of the inexorable decline of American society (it's not even just business anymore.)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[ColdWetDog]

My local Radio Shack (rural Alaska) sells:

- Batteries, lots of different kinds of batteries. Actually reasonable quality batteries.
- The standard bits of Junk Electronics - cordless phones, clock radios, a scanner or two, cheap marine band radios (a local favorite).
- RC airplane stuff.
- Junk electronic games.
- Cables, actually a reasonable selection of cables. Most 'normal' people can get what they want. (No 15 pin Amphenol waterproof bulkhead mounts).
- Junk electronic games.
- TVs.
- Hot tubs.
- Tanning booth in back.
- Espresso Bar in front.
- A rather odd selection of component parts - resistors, capacitors, LEDS, some surface mount stuff, some generic transistors, a couple of coils.

So, it appears that the owner has taken the core of Radio Shack inventory and overlaid it with stuff he thinks that the locals would want or just stuff he's interested in selling. Whatever works, I suppose.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[viperidaenz]

I meant 1/5th audio. The rest (which is the different between 1/5 and 1/4, 1/20th) electronics.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[jonwil]

Dick Smith is still good for some things. For example, I wanted a new DVD player (just an el-cheapo) and I went to Dick Smith because they had a dirt cheap unit that works fine and ordering online for something so cheap would have been pointless.

I also bought my current indoor TV antenna from them (being in a ground floor rented apartment means a proper antenna isn't an option) because I wanted TV now, not in a week when the delivery guy gets here.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[prehistoricman5]

Hmm...I bought an open-box wifi router from them once. When I went to set it up, I found that I couldn't connect to it. It turns out whoever had it earlier had actually taken the proper step of changing the admin password but the folks at frys were too lazy to reset the router to change it back to factory defaults prior to reshelving it (although this technically isn't their fault-I believe their return policy states that items must be returned in the factory state). I'd also say the "you need to know exactly what you want" isn't exactly true. I've run into knowledgeable staff there before (well they were more knowledgeable than the people that you find at best buy, not that it means anything).

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[PrescriptionWarning]

Lowe's hardware and Home Depot have fridges, washers and dryers aplenty, the only thing left is TVs really

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[whoever57]

Oh, and don't even get me started on how many DOA HDDs

If you live in the Bay Area (home to Fry's), never buy HDDs from Fry's -- buy online, or if you need it today, Central Computer.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Concerned Onlooker]

"After I went through isle by isle I found it between the printers and cordless phones."

Did you have to paddle very far?

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[ShanghaiBill]

you're not going to buy a refrigerator online

Why not? I bought a refrigerator online last year. It had good ratings, I read the reviews, made sure it had all the features I wanted, and then I clicked and bought it. It was delivered two days later.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[SydShamino]

In high school and my first summer of college I worked for a Radio Shack freight forwarder in DFW. He supplied Radio Shacks in other parts of the world with official RS merchandise, but he also distributed products from other manufacturers that complemented and competed with RS's merchandise. His stores had the option to buy whatever they wanted to fill their store if they thought it would sell. It didn't seem like RS enforced any brand loyalty or branded merchandise requirements on franchisees.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[dgatwood]

That explains it. Different area. That certainly hasn't been my experience with the South Bay stores.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[JWSmythe]

    You know, I really wonder about that too. I picked up a cell phone there, not too long ago. It was the same price as anywhere else. I only got it there because it was closest. It took 3 employees about 2 hours to figure out how to activate it. In that 2 hours, no one else came in. There was plenty of traffic coming into other stores around it though.

    How does a $100 purchase pay for 3 employees, and the overhead of the building?

    I'd say it's rare, but in other locations around the country that I've been to, it's always been the same situation. Since most of the stores stopped carrying small electronic components, I really haven't been going there much. When they did have the small components, there were always people coming in. They may only want a pack of resistors, but they frequently buy something else, just because. That impulse buy is a powerful tool. They have nothing that makes a consumer *want* to go in. So it's a store full of impulse buys, and no reason for customers to ever see them.

    The last trip there, I bought some shrink tube, solder, and on the impulse buy I got a new multimeter. When I got it home, it turned out that it took a weird little battery that I could only find via Radio Shack, and even then the battery was $30, and was exclusive to their online store. The multimeter was only $10, so I returned it. They tried to talk me into keeping it, and they would order the battery for me. {sigh}. Then they tried to upsell me to another one that took regular batteries. They could quite comprehend "no, I don't want it, because it doesn't work, and I won't spend $30 for the battery for a $10 multimeter."

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[prehistoricman5]

Every time I walk into a Best Buy I end up asking myself the question "Why am I here and not Fry's?" Their prices are not competitive and their selection is crap. I once went into one to see if I could buy an inexpensive screen protector for my phone. All they had were expensive ones that exceeded 10% of what I paid for the phone. Furthermore the installation of this brand is notoriously difficult, but they offered installation for another 8 bucks (or so). I didn't buy it. I also was in there recently returning a usb hub that someone got for me (the design of the hub had a fatal flaw and I knew it wouldn't last). The prices were appalling. Honestly just about the only positive thing that a best buy has done for me recently was convince me that a tablet is a waste of money. The only thing that keeps them operating are the people that don't know better.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[ixnaay]

You should try www.amazon.com/prime

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[SydShamino]

I spend my days designing modern electronic devices, and I have seen other parts with plenty of defects. But...capacitors are generally crap. We as a company have decided to stop using tantalum electrolytics in our products because they fail far too often, and do so with flashy results. But ceramics while stable crack too often in the manufacturing process and still aren't always available in larger capacitance values. We're moving towards polymers for bulk use and ceramics for pretty much everything else, and have to design boards around protecting the ceramics from cracking.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[dgatwood]

That's a minor part of their business these days. AFAIK, a big chunk of their income comes from the money they get from the cellular companies every time they convince someone to sign up for phone service.

Of course, if you're the only source for a product in town, even low sales volume can be sustainable if you charge a high enough markup.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[gearloos]

Ahh Radio Shack.. brings back many a memory of looking for that germanium diode or 600 Ohm resistor. You've got questions? We've got blank stares. You've got money? We've got pockets..

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[qualityassurancedept]

I live in Chicago near both a MicroCenter and a Tigerdirect store. Even if I might often buy something online, I still like to wander the aisles and look at things and read the boxes. I get ideas from being there and looking at things. I suppose its a lot like bookstores in the past. It was fun to just go thumb through books every once and a while. Motherboards, for example, are one of those things that I would rather look at and read the boxes than shop for online. And computer cases. I want to actually look at the computer case up close. You can't really judge a good computer case based on a picture online.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[StikyPad]

I'm not the GP, but I saw the same thing all the time at the Fry's in San Diego. Granted, that was 10 years ago, so maybe they've changed, but I'm guessing it's cheaper to try to restock and resell it than to return it to the manufacturer, especially if the poor sap who buys it next doesn't notice the problem and return it in time.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to work for Blockbuster Video. They have something similar to this. When a customer comes to the store and complains the movie did not play properly for them in any way, we never actually check the disc. The employee handling the customer's movie marks his or her initials on the inside of the rental insert to signify the item has been returned with a defect-related complaint one time. It was policy to do this because we cannot allocate time to verify all these complaints about potential defects. The idea is to save time and effort and assume the first complaint is due to improper usage or some kind of hardware problem with that one specific person.

So, if an item is returned with a defect-related complaint and the insert already has initials marked, the item is consequently removed from circulation so nobody else rents it. I understand the negative perspective where we're deliberately using one more customer as a guinea pig but it makes sense for the operations of the store. Also, at least in my experience, nobody knows the store does this with the items and nobody has ever gotten pissed off over renting a disc that skipped or froze, or whatever else may have gone wrong.

The only difference I see here is that we're talking about a $4 rental versus computer hardware that is worth much more and is sold with intent to be owned by the buyer, not rented.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Gumbercules!!]

And just this week their owner, Woolworths, declared they're close over a hundred Dick Smith stores and going to use their Big-W outlets to sell the consumer electronic components. The remaining Dick Smith stores will be sold off.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-business/woolworths-to-sell-dick-smith-electronics-20120131-1qqra.html

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DigiShaman]

That's exactly what Dell does and I suspect others as well. Although it's not official. When a part is returned for RMA replacement, it will get trashed if the fault is obvious (bad fan, blown PSU, or clicking HDD). If its status is questionable, further soft diagnostics are ran. If they pass, the gremlin infested part with an intermittent hard failure goes back into circulation for the next poor sob.

I want to know if they track the serial number of the parts as they're cycled in and out of Dell. How many time must it come back and forth before they capture it for good and smash it with a sledge hammer?!

Honest to God. I once had a faulty RAID card get replaced three times in a PowerEdge 2950 in attempt to resolve a faulty PERC processor failure according to diags. Dell support thought the system board was killing them. Eventually everything except the chassis got replaced! Soon after a regional Dell rep for the Houston area decided to pull the whole damn server and replace it with a brand new one fully upgraded. Eventually word got out that other customers and techs were shorting out their RMAed RAID cards by not installing its cache memory battery in the proper (but critical) order.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[mjwx]

Dick Smith is still good for some things. For example, I wanted a new DVD player (just an el-cheapo) and I went to Dick Smith because they had a dirt cheap unit that works fine and ordering online for something so cheap would have been pointless.

I also bought my current indoor TV antenna from them (being in a ground floor rented apartment means a proper antenna isn't an option) because I wanted TV now, not in a week when the delivery guy gets here.

My point exactly,

DSE has gone from being an electronics store to a box retailer. They occupy the same space as Harvey Norman, Myer and JB HiFi, for our foreign audience, it's more of a Walmart then a Radio Shack. Personally I stopped shopping at DSE when they started stocking Mac's.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[hairyfeet]

And I think you just nailed why these stores are going down, its a total crapshoot as to what kind of service you're gonna get. for electronics in my area we have two Best buys and a Staples. Now the first best buy, the farther away one naturally, actually has helpful staff, will help you find what you are looking for and if you seem interested in a new PC they will often throw in a little swag just to seal the deal, like a sleeve for that netbook or a little bookbag to carry your laptop, its just little stuff but it does make you feel better about buying there. Now the closer best buy is like a ghost town, if they didn't have RFID tags you could carry off half the store without ever seeing anybody. and if you do see an employee they do this almost comical trying to pretend they don't see you, this "Quick! look the other way and move at a brisk pace away from them!" kinda thing. And the staples? God that store is total crap. there is NOT A SINGLE THING on the shelves they will sell you, not one, its ALL bait and switch. that printer? that monitor? laptop? desktop? anything? all you get is "Nope outta stock, but we do have" and they will point out something that is nearly double the price. and that is of course not counting the fact that their prices sucked to begin with, but i guess a 40% markup isn't enough for the manager of that location, its 70% or nothing. No wonder their parking lot always looks like the place is abandoned.

So frankly i don't blame people for just not buying offline, frankly even if the price was a little higher I'd rather deal with amazon. with amazon i have a problem and its "No problem, we'll fix it" and its hassle free. When my sister bought some books and they just disappeared thanks to the thieving local post office (tracking showed it getting there then nothing, just gone) they never said a word other than "We're sorry we'll fix it" and had new replacements shot out there by fed ex in just two days. When i ordered a PC case that ended up looking like it was used as a tire chuck they said 'Don't bother sending it back, we'll send you another one" and there it was, no muss or fuss. Between them, Newegg and Tigerdirect I rarely even shop local for anything other than groceries anymore and even though the prices ARE cheaper online even if they were 20% higher I'd still buy thanks to hassle free shopping. Maybe if the shops would take a "customer is always right" attitude about service instead of having such high turnover and taking clueless workers because they are cheap maybe their business would go up.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[hairyfeet]

I can actually answer how they stay in business....DIYers with their balls in a vice. i have an engineering friend and i don't know how many times the shack has bent him over because he needed a spool of solder or resistor or some other little thing for a project that the deadline was looming on and he'd rather get the bite took out of his wallet than risk not getting paid. Since these little projects he whips off for the local college can easily net him a thousand or more a pop can't say as i blame him, but man do they gouge on that kind of stuff.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Anonymous Coward]

The last time I tried to buy an appliance, nobody in town had it in stock. All the stores have is display models... when you buy it, they offer "free delivery" and they'll schedule it for a few days later... but what they conveniently omit is that they don't have it in stock... unless you buy a display model off the floor, they don't have hardly any of the big appliances in stock. This is true for Lowe's and Home Depot too. When you buy from a store, you're actually still buying "from the internet", just with a reference place to look at a display model.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[viperidaenz]

Bugger. I don't personally care about the Australians though. DSE (NZ) LTD is a separate company owned by Woolworths... and from what I understand is doing quite well. Dick Smith is the only Woolworths retail brand in NZ.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[ceoyoyo]

Meh, I went in about fifteen years ago with a friend and asked for a flux capacitor, then watched the sales guy search for one for ten minutes.

It hasn't really been Radio Shack for a long time.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[TheLink]

Might be reflective of the USA's electronics manufacturing industry.

You want to see old school radio shack style stuff (and more), go to China (especially Shenzen). Of course there's a difference, in those places you may see people doing dubious stuff like assembling batteries in front of you and sticking the "original" holograms on them: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=283 ;)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[ILongForDarkness]

Might be even better: sell it at a discount "as is".

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[aXis100]

I dont have a Jaycar in my town and used to really miss it, but it's turned out to be far better to just buy stuff online, and you only have to be slightly organised.

Lately I get stuff from element14 (farnell), and with a $10 minimum credit card order you get free express courier shipping. The components are at my door within about 36 hours, even when it's just a few crappy components. The prices are good too - the other day I ran out of diodes and decided I should get a stack to avoid that situation again. 100 x IN4007's later my shopping basket was only $2 and I had to spend another half hour finding other fun stuff to bump up the total :)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[hairyfeet]

Because reviews from actual geeks is usually worth more than hands on? I mean holding that Seagate 1.5Tb would have taught me nothing but over a dozen reviews that were 'Holy crap i bought a dozen of these and they all choked and died hard in less than two months!" tells me quite a lot. Take the new netbook I got, most places had it listed as having win 7 32 bit and with a max RAM of 4Gb, but Amazon had as its first review a guy that pointed out it was actually Win 7 X64 and oh it takes 8Gb and here is the link. it was only $6 difference between the 4gb stick and a matched pair at that time so I bought and can say i'm really happy with my EEE. Handling it frankly wouldn't have told me anything more than i already knew since i had handled 12 inch netbooks before and had already tried out a customer's older EEE so i knew what to expect. it was online where they had not only the info about it actually being 64 bit and a link to the matched pair but even a tutorial on how to take the unit apart if you'd like to change out the HDD for an SSD. The first reviewer had actually done that and according to him with 8gb of RAM and an SSD the EEE handles more like a CULV than a netbook.

so I can see wanting to do your shopping online because handling it only tells you about size and feel, it tells you nothing about whether the unit sucks power, or dies 5 minutes after you get it home, runs too hot to watch HD video or struggles with some kinds of content, all that you can find out from reviews. Hell I had a real nice back and forth on a review I did for a Deneb X4, I even ran a couple of programs for the guy and timed them just so he'd know what he was looking at, and i'd probably do the same thing for someone with my new Thuban if they asked on my review, you just can't get that kinda thing offline.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Renraku]

Great for the MBA that has slightly better sales than they would have, bad for the company who is going to get sued one day for false advertising, which will become a class action because everyone is going to want a piece of the pie. In the end, the company will pay out a few hundred grand to lawyers and some coupons to people that were inconvenienced..because most people won't be able to prove how much they got overcharged.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Anonymous Coward]

A supermarket around here has gained a reputation of "mislabelling" prices (somehow the "actual" price at the cash register is higher than the listed price for a few items).

I guess you don't live in NY State. If the shelf label doesn't match the price at the scanner/register, you just take it over to Customer Service for a small bonus. Here's a cutting from our local regulation:
"As soon as practical, and in any case within one hour after receipt of such notification and verification of the overcharge, the store shall tender to the consumer an amount equal to the difference between the price charged and the least of the item, sale, shelf, or advertised price, plus an amount equal to ten times that difference, but not less than one dollar nor more than ten dollars."
Various other penalties for other infractions too.
Source--Section Eleven of: http://www2.erie.gov/law/index.php?q=erie-county039s-scanner-accuracy-law
I check my supermarket tapes and it's been years since I've found an inaccuracy--the stores don't want the penalties.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Renraku]

This might work for Blockbuster Video, but I would be PISSED if I spent hours of my life troubleshooting and trying to get some part to work for my PC and found out that it was returned defective, remarked, and put on the shelf. At that point I'd be asking for compensation for my time and effort, since they knowingly and willingly tried to put a defective product for sale. Or hey, we can go to small claims court for theft by deception..

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[firefrei]

Dick Smith Electronics was once a store where you could go in and buy capacitors, electronics kits (pre-arduino days) and just about anything else you need. Now days they sell phone plans, Norton AV and overpriced HDMI cables.

DSE still sells electronics (at least the stores I've visited). At some DSEs you can still purchase the Funway 1 component sets, just not the bulk kits. Point is they still sell electronics - they just don't move units as much because it's a niche market anyway, so they clearly had to expand (at least as far as Woolworths is concerned with how to run a business).

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Fjandr]

Eventually word got out that other customers and techs were shorting out their RMAed RAID cards by not installing its cache memory battery in the proper (but critical) order.

That's a serious engineering fail if they don't include a keyed connector and|or have polarity protection built in.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Kleen13]

You know, I live in Vancouver, Canada. Every single major issue I dealt with for or Dell servers that was solved on the 1st attempt was by the Houston support offices. Anyone know why they were so much better?

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[LordLucless]

There's a place for the storefront, but it's not mass-market commodity items. I'm sure that in the next couple of decades, storefronts will be pretty much limited to boutiques, custom work, one-of-a-kind things like antiques, and services. And I think our retail districts will be better for it.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Aryden]

Funny, I charged her for the privilege.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Darinbob]

I have purchased a product from Fry's which had no "returned" label or any sort on it. I got home, opened it up, and stuffed inside was the original shrink wrap rolled into a ball. South Bay store.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[mjwx]

Dick Smith Electronics was once a store where you could go in and buy capacitors, electronics kits (pre-arduino days) and just about anything else you need. Now days they sell phone plans, Norton AV and overpriced HDMI cables.

DSE still sells electronics (at least the stores I've visited). At some DSEs you can still purchase the Funway 1 component sets, just not the bulk kits. Point is they still sell electronics - they just don't move units as much because it's a niche market anyway, so they clearly had to expand (at least as far as Woolworths is concerned with how to run a business).

DSE has converted from an electronics retailer to a box retailer. If you wanted to find capacitors or even a new video card for your PC, DSE is no longer an option for you.

When I said kits, I was thinking of stuff like this. DSE used to be more like Altronics, then it was bought by Woolworths who converted it into a box retailer.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Pubstar]

This happened to me several times at the Woodland Hills and Burbank stores. I haven't had much issue with the Oxnard store though.

And yes, I told them that even Razer said it was faulty, and the sticker they slapped on it said Reduced Price.

As for the DOA HDDs, its about 75% of the reduced HDDs were dead that I've gone through. This has been the same problem at the Woodland Hills/Burbank stores since I started shopping at them around 2001 (atleast the Burbank one).

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Winter]

I do design of some telco electronics, and we only use tantalums. After we figured out you have to double the voltage rating, we have not had a single tantalum failure in 6 years. Before then we had a few flashy failures.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DurendalMac]

You must have a good Radio Shack. The one near where I live is mostly common stuff at 5x what it's worth, ie, HDMI cables up to $100 and nothing really exceptional on the shelves.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[SacredNaCl]

I don't know, but MicroCenter seems to be able to do it. I haven't looked at their books, but on price, they compete against the Newegg's, Amazon, and everyone else on the major items that matter. You pay a slight convenience fee for some items (1-2% above to have it today), but most things it works out in your favor even with the tax.

Now they could be bleeding money left, and right ... However, I don't think so. I think they are just making slightly less money on each sale.

 

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Zontar The Mindless]

...I can't imagine somebody buying a a big screen TV or even a laptop based solely on online descriptions...

Hate to disappoint you, but I bought my new widescreen TV online about 9 months ago. :)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DurendalMac]

I can see Best Buy going away. So many of those stores are run by inept morons and so much corporate policy is made by inept morons. If you're really lucky, you'll get an honest salesperson who actually knows what they're talking about. Otherwise it's brainless chunkheads throwing whatever they can at you. If you're really lucky, you'll get a Geek Squad tech who knows what he's doing and will fix it right. Otherwise, you get some idiot sales flunkie who can barely read the checklist of crap to do, a checklist that probably ends with "Just sell 'em a bunch of crap if you can't figure it out". Best Buy's reputation has been dwindling because they're bloody incompetent. People will go elsewhere for their goods if it continues and BB will tank. Any town big enough for a BB already has alternate stores.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[garyoa1]

Why not a fridge on line? You aren't looking hard enuff. :) Lot of wholesale appliance stores out there and most price with free shipping. Yeah, even on a fridge. Or freezer. Generator. Stove. You name it, you can get it cheaper on line.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DigiShaman]

It's keyed so that's not the issue. Typically a PERC (RAID) card is assembled in three parts. The card itself, cache memory, and battery. The entire PERC card assembly can be removed and installed into the motherboard just fine as it's acceptable to do so. The problem is that when Dell ships an RMAed PERC card, it's just the card by itself. It's up to the customer or on-site tech to migrate the cache memory and battery over to it. This is where the problem begins. According to the service documentation, when removing the card you must first disconnect the cache battery before removing the cache. Reverse the steps when installing cache. If you leave the battery connected while adding or removing the cache, most certainly you will fry the module and potentially damage the PERC processor too.

I suppose the argument could be made both ways. On one hand, this card could have been designed better from an electrical engineering standpoint to be more robust and serviceable by adding additional checks and balances in place within the circuitry. On the other, if people would just RTFM and protect against ESD, this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[sjames]

Never! It circles through the system until it wears down to dust from the handling.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[mjwx]

There's a place for the storefront, but it's not mass-market commodity items. I'm sure that in the next couple of decades, storefronts will be pretty much limited to boutiques, custom work, one-of-a-kind things like antiques, and services. And I think our retail districts will be better for it.

Exactly my line of thinking. There are few items I need to see before buying, clothes and cars for example. But these items are few, I might want to try on a new shirt before I buy, but I can order my socks and jocks online with not worries (shoes too).

And I think our retail districts will be better for it.

Read that as red light districts at first glance. But that has also become something that can be ordered online.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Grishnakh]

Same goes for Best Buy. I tried buying a laptop there for my wife; I really didn't want to, but she didn't want to wait for NewEgg to deliver, so we went to BB since it's local. Got a floor model Lenovo on sale. Took it home after refusing the extra warranty BS, started setting it up with all my regular software at the time (Firefox etc.), and it had some weird intermittent problem (I think it either reset spontaneously, or the screen blanked out, I forget exactly). Brought it back for a return, they said they'd have to charge us a restocking fee, as well as some big fee for Geek Squad to clean out the software I had installed, so they could resell it. I pointed out that it was faulty, but since they couldn't see any problem, they were going to resell it. Never mind how ridiculous it is that they want to resell a PC without wiping the HD first; you never know what I might have screwed up or planted there (keylogger, etc.). So I started removing the software myself to avoid the stupid fee, and the intermittent problem manifested itself, so the morons there actually got to see it and decided to give me a full refund.

We took the money and this time my wife let me order a laptop from NewEgg; it arrived a few days later and is still working years later. She refuses to buy anything from BB any more.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[maxwells_deamon]

I bought 550W desktop power supply from the local Frys here. Shrink wrapped nicely and no "opened stock" sticker. Got it home and opened it up. It was a older dusty 150W power supply which would not work on my desktop.

Took it back, Suspecting I was screwed. They swapped it out with no problemand an apology . They let me open the replacement in the store to confirm it is good. The theory was some A$$hole had a shrink wrap machine at home and was returning things as unopened.

It might have helped that I am it there frequently.

 

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Grishnakh]

This doesn't sound like an ESD problem at all, it's a problem with hot-plugging. Cache memory likely isn't hot-pluggable (would you plug a DDR3 stick into your motherboard with the power on? Of course not). When the battery is installed, that memory is powered up. Plugging the battery in before the memory means you're hot-plugging, which means failure. There's probably no easy way to avoid this without either 1) designing a special memory connector with a built-in switch ($$$), or 2) designing special memory modules that are hot-plug safe ($, or if they're saving money by reusing some kind of standard modules instead of making their own, $$$$$$).
 

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[compro01]

$80. The firmware would be for the macroing capability. The thing also glows and doesn't ghost, so you can press as many keys at once as you like.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Grishnakh]

That's a pretty good law (though I think they should jack up the penalties a little more). I wonder if there's anything like it here in AZ.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[compro01]

I believe it's something like half your inventory purchases have to be RS stuff, but otherwise you can sell whatever you like from whoever.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Grishnakh]

I'm sorry, I'd rather buy a refrigerator at Sears than at Best Buy. Lowe's and Home Depot also are good places to buy them. There's also dedicated appliance stores in larger cities.

I'm going to hold a celebration if Best Buy goes under. I can't wait.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[MacTO]

I live in a big city, so there are better options nearby. But if I lived in a smaller city which didn't offer options, then I'd hit up the shack a couple of times a year. There are too many cheap fixes, even with Radio Shacks prices.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[skine]

Probably the only reason I continue to shop at BestBuy is that their computers have access to the internet, and specifically NewEgg.

That way, I can see how well it's rated, understand the specifics of the item, compare prices, and determine whether it's something I want now or within three business days.

Also, I feel bad for every Best Buy employee who asks if I need help (which they have to do, given the ten-foot rule). Two minutes of reading the reviews of a single product on NewEgg tends to make me more knowledgeable about the entire product category than most BB employees.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[lord_mike]

Obviously a franchise. A company store would never sell that stuff. The franchise stores are great, 'cos you can still get all the discontinued and outdated Radio Shack items from years past that are still of interest.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[lord_mike]

The markup on that stuff is like 600%. They make great margin on it, but the cash flow from it is low, so they still have to try and sell cell phones, but without the parts business, Radio Shack would be out of business.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[lord_mike]

It's better now. Upper management has decided to finally stop trying to be Best Buy and cater to the hobbyists again. I applaud them for that. Custom electronics and parts have always been their bread and butter, but they really hated that and tried to be something else.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[JDAustin]

Was down at the Fremont Fry's this weekend. The only internal HDD they had were some 320 Cavier Blues. Not a single OEM drive. The HDD drought has hit them bad.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DigiShaman]

I only mentioned ESD because people tend to be careless when handling bare electronics. Of course I have no way of knowing how a particular item got damaged in the first place, but the fact ESD precaution is often ignored doesn't exactly improve the situation either.

With regards to hot-plugging, I agree. The card wasn't designed to have a cache DIMM installed or removed with auxiliary power engaged. But of all the items to replace in a server, I can understand how this component gets mishandled among all the rest. Again, I'm not saying it's justifiable, just understandable.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[evanism]

I installed a train load of 2950's, and the instructions on the PERC were in capital LETTERS IN RED

Only a person who couldnt see lightning up close would have missed it. :)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[wvmarle]

Doesn't it bother you that you have so many faulty products that you have to return to the shop? Sounds to me like they're selling pretty poor quality stuff there.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Rakarra]

Because I can't imagine somebody buying a a big screen TV or even a laptop based solely on online descriptions (unless you're determined to get Apple gear in which case going to a store and poking at the laptop adds nothing to the decision-making process).

I don't see why you wouldn't buy a TV based on online descriptions. Unless you're at a high-end videophile store, the TV you see in a store will most likely be calibrated incorrectly, have the brightness turned Waaaaay up to match the bright store lighting, and an image split and shared with a hundred other TVs which may or may not be the display's native resolution. Seeing a TV at a store is usually a horrible way to get a judge of image quality and online ratings and tests are a more reliable way than your own eyes to get a good idea of the visual quality. Not a bad way of figuring out how the bezel will look to see if it'll match your den, though.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[WarlockD]

Yea I heard of that. Never happened with me or the guys I worked in. I mean the instructions clearly tell us to unplug the battery FIRST. Its bloody obvious as you got live power running in that memory so you should unplug it before you do anything. Not saying other techs haven't done it though. Sigh. Even as a server tech I have been dispatched to fix other techs problems. You shouldn't need to replace everything in the chassis to fix a bad cpu. I will say one thing, I will never again use an ESD strap using a rack as ground. Half the people don't even tag it to ground. Getting the shock of my life from an ESD strap when ATTACHING it to a rack made me thing there was more than just a bad board going on in that case:P

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Rakarra]

Every time I walk into a Best Buy I end up asking myself the question "Why am I here and not Fry's?" Their prices are not competitive and their selection is crap

For me the answer is "because Best Buy is 6 minutes away, while Fry's is a minimum 40 minutes away." :-)
Until recently Best Buy used to have a phenomenal selection of DVDs, better than Fry's, I'd found. Then I went in there again before Christmas to nab a last-second DVD for a holiday exchange... egads. The selection has been slashed. It's roughly 1/4 to 1/5 the size of what it was just over a year ago. What the hell happened there, and I can't figure out what else is filling up all the space. Large appliances?

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[CrackedButter]

Brilliant sir!

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[robthebloke]

They sell the refurbs via dell outlet. I bought a rather nice XPS from dell outlet a few years ago (with a big discount). It's still going strong, so I assume they fix them before sending them out again.....

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DarkOx]

Really to me it seems exactly the sort of thing I'd want to buy on line you know the measurements your home will take, that measurements of the unit would be published and it's pretty easy to know what you are getting from a photo. Oh and you almost certainly are going to have it delivered anyway. Seems perfect for buying online

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[MagusSlurpy]

Laptops are pretty much the only computer-related item I refuse to purchase online. Keyboards change between model revisions (as Dell did for the XPS L501/L502), as do vent and port placement, and screens - and those are all very important to the discerning geek. And if I go into a store to handle something I decide to purchase, such as a laptop, mouse, or speakers, I will almost always buy it there, since they provided me with useful information (though if it's more than a few bucks difference I will try to get a price match to Newegg or Amazon or wherever I saw it cheaper).

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[quantumphaze]

Dick Smith is the only Woolworths retail brand in NZ.

Woolworths own more than just DSE in NZ including Countdown supermarkets.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Kjella]

Because I can't imagine somebody buying a a big screen TV or even a laptop based solely on online descriptions

I did, a 60" LCD that came on sale. Personally I think the value of looking at it in a store is quite inferior to reading a dozen reviews online, as well as user reviews - but looking out for astroturfers and astroslammers (or whatever you'd like the people paid to write bad reviews on the competition's products). It came and it delivered, just as expected - I did the same for the sound system too. But then I've done this for lots of things, my fridge/stove/dishwasher/washer-dryer combo all came from an online store. I don't feel I get anything from looking at a fridge at the store and the staff is worthless.

In fact, that was my MO getting all the furniture for my apartment, even though we went to the store and bought it I had a shopping list from many different furniture stores ready long before I entered the first store. Couch, shelves, DVD shelf and nightstand one place, table and lounge chair another, TV table a third, bed a fourth. Never once did I change my opinion in the store, since I was already there I looked it over but nothing of what I picked disappointed and nothing else caught my eye. If it wasn't for the transport cost, I could have had that just delivered to me too.

And laptops? Heh, computers and computer components are the least useful things to go look at in a store. It was probably the first thing I started ordering online, even things like the laptop screen is tested for brightness, contrast, color accuracy, response time etc. these days. The only thing you don't really get a good grip on is build quality but unless you're looking for something particularly rugged they're usually all okay. Everything else like CPU/GPU/RAM/HDD/ports and whatnot is better to research online.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[RoboRay]

Well, in their defense, "remove power first and apply power last" ARE kind of standard procedure for any electronics removal & replacement procedure.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Ziran]

Jaycar is the place to go for electronics in Australia now, about 1/4 to 1/3 of my local store in components etc. Also a good place to go for gadgets that Dick Smith / Tandy don't stock.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Dorkmaster Flek]

This must not be in Canada, where Radio Shack has become "The Source" and been transformed from an actual electronics store to a cell phone reseller. For a little while, they still had hobbyist electronics stuff in the back, but now it's all gone. I bought a 12V DC power supply from there once for my model railroading and the guy who rang it up knew neither what it was nor what you would use it for. The only reason I knew they had it was because their online inventory said so.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[DigiShaman]

Yes. Dell does run a full hardware diagnostic for all computers being resold.

It's been over 7 year since I've lasted worked for Dell. Back when I lived in Austin, they had a warehouse like facility where trucks could load and unload at the trucking dock. Anyways, my contracted job was to refurbish laptops and desktops. It was a simple matter of taking the unit in question and PXE boot them into hardware diagnostics. When a fault is found, we simply order a replacement part from a list available to us at our console. Within a few minutes, a parts running would search and deliver the part to me in person. Once installed, tests are re-ran. If the test passed, we could save the new hardware configuration to be updated with the service tag. That final configuration determined the new cost of the machine to be sold at. The last step was to PXE boot them again for re-imaging of the OS with drivers. How exactly did the right OS get chosen with the proper drivers slip streamed into them? Not sure, but Dell had the system down to a science. It worked.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[b0bby]

True dat. I usually buy most everything online, but I'll often drive the 1/2 hour to microcenter because the prices are good. Or, as just happened, the power supply on my main home machine dies on a Friday afternoon & I don't want to wait for shipping.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[zildgulf]

You forgot to mention "Junk electronic games".

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Andy Dodd]

Yup - The two Best Buys I go to actually have semi-competent sales staff that never does upsells and cross-sells, and actually goes away when you say you don't need help.

However - both of them are in towns with large universities, so many of their staff are college kids looking for extra pizza money. These tend to be much better qualified for a tech sales job than the typical Best Buy employee.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Megane]

When I return defective stuff to Fry's, I make sure they RTV it. Also, I think there's a "three strikes rule" on re-stickering. I must have returned a stickered item once because I didn't want it and they RTVed it even though it was still okay.

In any case, I'm sure it depends on the employee if you don't go out of the way to encourage them to RTV a broken item. I'm sure a place like Fry's doesn't do much to keep motivated employees around or pay them enough to care. (though they're still probably a fraction better than the average big box place)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Megane]

I was at the Austin one a week or two ago. The retail internal HD shelf was pretty bare, but they did have a few different kinds available. I didn't even look at the panel where they put the OEM drive prices. Good thing I got me a 2TB before the floods.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[bandy]

Or those who are red-green colorblind.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife bought a cast iron tub online. I knew that she was looking for one, but didn't realize she was actually going to purchase one online.

Well the company drop shipped it to our house for free, and provided kick ass support for finding the correct hardware for the tub (I guess the faucets that she chose were European, so we needed adapters). I would certainly buy a big / bulky / large ticket item online again, as long as the firm was reputable.

Of course our plumber quit on the spot when he saw the tub. I guess you are supposed to buy from your plumbers so they can get the mark up. Oh well, no wonder the tub was so cheap compared to what the plumber was showing us -- my wife just thought that she was doing the plumber a favor by finding something better and less expensive than what he was selling. LOL

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Megane]

I once had to get a "camcorder" A/V cable (1/8" 4-pin plug) on a Sunday in San Antonio (Fry's is 100 miles away, Altex is closed), and while it wasn't the first place I went, I ended up paying $35 for one at a mall Radio Shack. Sometimes just having the right part at the right time is worth a few bucks.

The reason I had to get it was that my mom got a new TV. It had plenty of HDMI ports, and one component (to which I hooked up the DVD player), but the Wii doesn't do digital out, and the only other analog video input was a 1/8" plug.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[FileNotFound]

You must go to a different store than I do. MC may match prices on computers and some electronics, but components and consumables are almost all anywhere from 10-25% over internet price. Books are sold at list price, which once again is higher than Amazon.

If you're looking at cables, even basic crap like CAT5 - you may as well file for bankruptcy on your way to the checkout. Never mind that MC has been trying to push more and more crap out, just getting TO the checkout requires navigating through a maze of $5 gizmos and toys ranging from shitty LED flashlights to RC choppers.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Megane]

I also was at a big Fry's Electronics... they had some stuff, but it's not like you could just pick up some random resistor or even set of resistors.

Then you didn't look around enough. They should have a full aisle full of component parts on hang cards. (The hang card probably doubles the cost of the cheaper parts, but makes it possible to display them sanely.) Also, as of a few months ago, Fry's now has Arduino and Propeller stuff next to the dusty old Basic Stamp stuff.

And don't underestimate Wal-Mart. They're already killing off weaker grocery chains. (But you're still not going to see Arduino or a 5-pack of resistors on Wal-Mart shelves.)

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Artifex]

Meh, I went in about fifteen years ago with a friend and asked for a flux capacitor, then watched the sales guy search for one for ten minutes.

It hasn't really been Radio Shack for a long time.

Yeah, those haven't been around since '88.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Yobgod Ababua]

I like Fry's, but am still sad that they no longer have the aisle of discrete CMOS and TTL components.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[MrNemesis]

Same here - I used to get all my computer components from scan.co.uk but their customer service was appalling. Negotiating a replacement took a battery of emails and phone calls and paying my own postage ending with a "the item is fine, we're charging you £xyz for costing our time" and I'd either get back the same item still faulty, or a silently-replaced (diff. serial number) functional item. Before I shopped at scan, I used aria.co.uk who refused to ship me an order I never received, despite having no tracking information for the parcel. Had to take those fuckers to the small claims court.

With amazon, I say "it's broken, I want a refund", I get a refund. When I got a DOA NAS unit, the replacement was there the next day along with the "here's a DHL coupon thing, let them know when you're ready to send the original back and they'll pick it up from your door. Coupon is valid for weekend pickups too!". As with you, if the cost of the postage is too much (as with a lot of DVD's) they'll say "just keep it or throw it away".

And yes, I frequently pay above the odds (they're usually 2-3% more expensive than the "cheapest" online from a reputable dealer) simply for the peace of mind.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[pegasustonans]

Thank god we still have Radio Shack. I went in recently and found they were even selling arduinos. I've bought a bunch of components there for my electronics projects. It's not Fry's, but at least there's one 10 minutes away from my home in Nowhereville Vermont.

Fry's isn't Fry's anymore. Things haven't been the same since they started selling ovens and dishwashers. For years, I wondered why I even went there anymore. Recently, I've stopped wondering and stopped going.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[mcgrew]

A month ago I went there to buy a new computer. I narrowed it down to one model, but I had a question. Tried getting an employee to help for half an hour. Then I spent a half-hour surfing on my smart phone for the information. It didn't help that during this surfing I was in ear-short of an employee being flirted to by a person who claimed to be an employee from another branch on their day off.

I'm surprised they stayed in business this long, considering their obvious contempt for their customers. I posted a rant about them ten years ago, just reran it last week. Here's the relevant part:

I'll say something nice about Best Buy too- it's not crowded any more.
                My wife Becky decided (after we got a big tax refund this year) that she needed a laptop PC for school. Actually, I suspect that now that she needs a computer she doesn't want to go down to the cold basement to use it like I and the kids do. But any way, we went shoppping for a laptop. I hit a few web sites (not eBay), and we decided to look locally ( JDR seems to only carry Toshiba and I don't like Japanese design). First stop was Best Buy. It had been a while since i had been in there. Well, actually we went in for some compressed air but since we were shopping for a laptop... she fell in love with a Hewlett Packard model, really nice one with a big hard drive, nice big clear screen, lots of memory, DVD CD burner, modem, network card... and most importantly to her, pretty blue lights above the keyboard.
                Best Buy staff were puttering around doing... actually I'm clueless, they didn't look to me like they were doing more than trying to look busy and avoid customers. We grabbed a salesman, who told us he'd be right back... this happened three times. We finally got some pimple faced kid who informed us that he had a Gateway and it was crap. "Just a minute and I'll get this ready"... this a half hour after deciding on what to buy.
                They were offering free internet access through MSN. Now, if I didn't already have an ISP (and likely DSL) would I be buying a computer with a LAN card and modem? They were also offering zero percent financing, which I also didn't want; I had cash in the bank.
                Never mind that I didn't want it, it "will take about five minutes to set up the computer, he can do it while we're filling out paperwork." WTF, was I buying a house, or an antiaircraft missle? Paperwork???
                We stood there in line a full half hour before the girl was ready to check us out. As we waited, Becky whipped out her phone and called the bank to make sure we had enough cash to pay for all the crap, over $2000.00 worth. The computer sat there, unopened and un-checked out.
                Best Buy wouldn't take our check. After a two and a half hour ordeal of mostly waiting, we walked away from over two thousand dollars in merchandise and won't be back. The sales girl tried to blame some other company!
                H&R Block tried to blame a different company, too. I guess business are all taking lessons from Microsoft. Here's a clue for all of them- you can't stay in business like that without a monopoly.
                My guess is Best Buy treats everybody like this. If so, I'll give them two more years, maybe with Enron accounting they can survive three or four. I'll give H&R Block five to ten (and they should be glad I'm not a judge!)
                Becky bought her HP laptop the next day at Circut City, where they had pleasant salespeople (unlike Best Buy), it took fifteen minutes to buy, and they gratefully took her check without any bullshit.

Just as bad ten years ago (post originally written ten years ago last Saturday).

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[EvilJoker]

Most Micro Center locations will price match Newegg. They also have "Manager discretion". If you make a fuss to a manager about it being much cheaper on Amazon, and be willing to order it from Amazon, they may agree to a price match (or at least a discount). I'm sure the Newegg price matching started the same way.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by components and consumables, since PC components are priced very close to Newegg (which they would price match anyway)

You're dead on with cables, and there's only a few that are also on Newegg (but there are a few). This isn't something limited to a specific retailer - ALL B&M stores price gouge on cables, and online stores don't. Best example I've seen recently? 15' USB cable (Belkin). Walmart: $25. Walmart.com: $5. And no, they will not match their own online store.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[gorzek]

Yeah, that sounds like somebody going out of their way to rip off the store. I doubt the people processing returns are going to do more than open the box and see that the contents are there and shrinkwrapped. With how many returns stores process, it may not be practical to give them more than a cursory examination.

One of the weirdest things that happened to me was when I bought PC game, took it home, and the CD was... well, it wasn't manufactured right, somehow. Where you'd normally find the silver, reflective data side of the CD, there was instead this sticky greenish-brown film. I took it back to the store, they said, "We don't do refunds on PC games." I showed them the disc and they were flabbergasted. They grabbed the other copy they still had on the shelf, opened it up, and found the same thing. Guess there was a bad batch or something. But they gave me my money back since they didn't have any other copies and it was obvious the ones they did have were defective.

Never encountered anything like it since then.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[d3ac0n]

I've always bought all of my large appliances from a regional appliance store. A place called "Orvilles" (www.orvilles.com) They have great service and great selection.

Could I get a Fridge online? Yeah, Probably. But the shipping costs make it cost just as much as buying it locally. Also, I don't have to worry about it arriving damaged if I buy locally (can still get it delivered at no extra charge). No guarantee when you buy something big like that online.

Small stuff? Yeah. No problem buying that online. It can be packed in bubble-wrap or foam peanuts in a box and arrive undamaged unless seriously abused. A Refrigerator? Nope. It'll either be all banged up, or shipped in a wooden crate so heavy it will cost half the price of the fridge just for delivery.

How do I know this? I've seen it in action. Anyone else ever paid near a grand for a top of the line Microwave and had it arrive looking like it was run over? I have. And you don't want to know what it was like dealing with returns! (Hint: Not good.)

Buy your big stuff locally whenever feasible. If possible, from a smaller local store. Help out your local small business owner AND save yourself a ton of headaches.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[ZaskarX]

That hasn't been my experience with Fry's employees, at least in the PC components section. Most of the employees I've encountered are geeks in their early 20's who have a genuine interest in technology who usually know much more than I do about what it is that I am shopping for. If I ask which CPU is the best bang for the buck they don't automatically point me to the most expensive one available but instead tell me which one has unlockable CPU cores, which ones dominate certain benchmarks etc. They know which motherboards are cheaply made crap and which ones last and what RAM to pair them with. This is knowledge that would take me many hours of online research to accumulate; I recently built a new PC and paid less than what I would have paid online and received solid advice in the process. As long as Fry's retains knowledgeable employees, keeps prices competitive with online retailers, and makes returns easy I don't have any reason to shop anywhere else. I wouldn't care if every Best Buy in the world went up in flames but I'd be bummed if my local Fry's ever shut their doors.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Reapy]

Microsoft did this during the xbox breaking fiasco phase. I sent mine back that I had kept in good shape after a read ring o death. I got back a 'refurbished' one that looked like it had been pretty beat up. It worked well for a few months then i started getting random crashes. After a bit it turns out the cd player was fubar in it, wobbling the cd ,and scratching all my disks.

I tried to tell tech support this, + they had sent me a shitty one, and they said for 90 they would let me ship it back since it was now out of warranty. I had some gift cards and figured a new one would be better anyway so just went to the store and got a new one for cheaper (ultimately NOT cheaper, but i had the gift cards).

The worst part is that 5 or 6 of my games got scratched pretty badly in places and from that point on would crash or hang at parts of the game. Most of them crap out if I try to install them to the hard drive when they hit the scratched portion of it.

All in all it was a pretty shitty experience. I was planning on seeing about moding the xbox with the broken cd drive with a replacement, but just lost interest in even bothering with it.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[desdinova 216]

my guess would be that you're getting people that are able to do more than just "follow the script"

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[JonySuede]

Thank you both, I will surely use what I learned from the posts, next time I choose a replacement capacitor.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[LDAPMAN]

Believe it or not the system Dell uses for blowing the images down to the machines is based on Netware. It's flat amazing how fast it pushes bits.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[viperidaenz]

I know, they own Progressive - Countdown, Woolworths, Foodtown and a few other smaller brands. Those are super markets, not retail stores.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[kaatochacha]

The part you're not thinking about is the "If I see a PC component I want in a store", which you then go on to say won't exist much longer.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[wwphx]

You've heard, I hope, that Heathkit has risen from the dead and says they'll start making ham radio kits again?

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[rdnetto]

Rockby is reasonably good for analog parts, though their website's search is somewhat lacking. Jaycar has a minuscule selection in comparison.
The reality is that for electronic components, the demand for the really interesting ones is just too low to justify a brick and mortar shop keeping them in stock. Resistors, capacitors, etc. you'll find, but good luck finding a microprocessor more powerful than an Arduino or a display better than a simple 16x2 character display.

I usually just order stuff from Sparkfun, or AustralianRobotics if I need it sooner. I'd probably use Digikey as well if they didn't charge $35 for shipping.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[toddestan]

I would design the battery to be in a compartment with a door, where if the door is open or not removed the circuit would be disconnected. Put a plastic arm on the door that sticks out over the cache modules, blocking the modules from being inserted or removed easily. That should be fairly cheap and should get the job done.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[Grishnakh]

Compartment? Door? This is a RAID card; there's no plastic casing on it at all, just a bare board.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[jseale]

I find no fault with them except for the fact that they hardly ever update their stock (ex. mobile phones, cameras, other portable crap). They may bring in a few new things over the holidays -- particularly in the areas of computer peripherals, toys, home entertainment -- but everything else stays pretty much stagnant. This is especially true in mall locations.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[QuasiSteve]

'fraid not - but that might have just been the establishment I visited. Similarly, I know there's Radio Shacks that do still carry hobby electronics and expecting one at the mall to be one of them is a bit of a stretch. I was just pointing out that it's definitely not the late 80's anymore where those stores would be largely focused on the hobby electronics demography.
Arduino et al are bringing that back to some of them, albeit on a different level; modules rather than components.

Re:Thank god we still have Radio Shack

[SydShamino]

It's not just the voltage issue, which yes we compensate for. They also have temperature and lifetime and vibration problems.

Apple

[Pharmboy]

Yet Apple can't seem to open stores up fast enough. Go figure.

Re:Apple

[LWATCDR]

Because you can not go online and buy an apple product for 60% price of buying it in the store.
It is that apple control thing working for them.

Re:Apple

[greg1104]

TFA talks about loss of control over margins at Best Buy. Apple Stores are known to have some of the highest margins in retail. Their success demonstrate that people are willing to pay high margins for products if they feel they're getting good service for it--which is certainly not the Best Buy experience.

Also, it's rarely the case that there is a large advantage to purchasing an Apple product outside of their stores, due to their extensive price controls at all retailers. As you can also see from that chart, Apple makes an ever higher margin for the products they sell online. They could adjust their price to match the lower overhead and sell them cheaper direct. The fact that they don't is an interesting component to their overall strategy.

Re:Apple

[atriusofbricia]

Yet Apple can't seem to open stores up fast enough. Go figure.

That's because Apple stores are not electronics stores. They're fashion stores that happen to sell electronics.

Re:Apple

[Daniel_Staal]

I'm not always sure they even sell electronics. Have you tried to purchase something at one of them recently? It's nearly impossible to find someone to check out with.

The point is to show off shiny devices, and to have a local point-of-contact for in-person support. Actual sales are secondary.

Re:Apple

[Tharsman]

Id say it has a lot more to do with their brick stores not stamping a premium price over the online price.

Re:Apple

[R3d M3rcury]

I'm not sure this is a valid comparison.

Apple Stores sell mostly Apple equipment. Yes, you have some third-party software and hardware, but for the most part, it's Apple gear. Compare this to Best Buy which entirely reselling someone else's equipment.

Also, Best Buy sells a much larger variety of items then your typical Apple Store. Apple Stores sell Macs, iPads, iPods, Time Capsules, etc. Best Buy sells all of those as well as competing hardware from other companies, televisions, DVDs, CDs, dishwashers, washing machines, vacuum cleaners, home audio, car audio, etc.

It's kind of like saying, "Hey, Bang & Olufson stores make money."

Re:Apple

[bennomatic]

Huh? Basically everyone there can check you out. What's impossible to find is cash registers because they don't have them. Or maybe they have one tucked away. But most transactions are done via credit card, and every employee has mobile devices which can help you check out.

Not to mention the fact that if you have an iTunes account and their store app, you can actually self-check-out without talking to anyone, except to maybe show the electronic receipt to someone on the way out the door.

It's easy to shit on Apple, and clearly it's fun, because lots of people do it. But to say something like "actual sales are secondary" in the face of outrageous success on their part is just pure silliness. It's not like people are just pointing to foot traffic and calling them a success for that--although that is one of the metrics getting played up--it's about dollars per square foot, and love them or hate them, they are indeed making more dollars per square foot than pretty much any other retail establishment.

If actual sales are secondary, then their success at whatever you think their primary goal is must be absolutely stellar.

Re:Apple

[Daniel_Staal]

Finding a person who can check you out, and actually getting their attention so you are able to check out, are entirely separate things in my experience. I can find someone no problem. But they will be busy and distracted, and it'll take me 5-10 minutes, easy, from finding someone to actually checking out - and that's if it's something on the floor that I have in my hand.

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? Basically everyone there can check you out.

That's the problem. Everyone does everything; nobody is responsible for anything.

Go into an Apple Store, grab something off the shelf (an iPhone bumper, say) and bring it to someone. Hold it up, hold up the money in your other hand. They'll happily tell you, "Sorry, I'm helping a customer," and turn back to the person who's asking them if they can run MS Word on an iPad.

Because if you're just trying to buy something, you don't rate as a customer.

And don't bother waiting, either. (Unless you're waiting for a spot at the "genius bar," where you can make an appointment and get your name on a list.) There's nowhere to wait in line, no way to convey, "Hey, I've been here for ten minutes trying to give you money in exchange for goods! Business! Commerce! Capitalism! ME HAVE MONEY, GIVE TO YOU!" You just have to hope you can snag someone in the ten seconds they're free after answering one person's question before the next college kid comes along asking which Macbook has enough RAM for taking notes in class.

Re:Apple

[tripleevenfall]

TFA talks about loss of control over margins at Best Buy. Apple Stores are known to have some of the highest margins in retail. Their success demonstrate that people are willing to pay high margins for products if they feel they're getting good service for it--which is certainly not the Best Buy experience.

Well, yes and no (IMO). Most Apple devices are not purchased at their brick and mortar stores.

Best Buy has simply cornered the market on turning salespeople - who used to provide a valuable service, in helping consumers find the right product for them - into upsellers, BS-slingers, and unhelpful, annoying gnats you have to wade through to simply look at product.

Just try to buy a television - you have to fight through aggressive pitches for a mount, then for the snake-oil monster cables, the snake-oil monster power supply, the all-profit extended warranty, the hilariously priced home installation....

The last time I was in a Best Buy was when a certain tablet was released. I had to fend off two aggressive attempts by the zitfarm serving me to complement my $200 tablet with a $200 pair of headphones.

One of the primary benefits of buying things from Amazon, etc., is that you don't have to deal with retail staff.

Re:Apple

[robogun]

You can save a lot on state sales taxes online. That amount can be substantial, even on a carrier subsdized iPhone.

But you do miss out on the whole Apple love-in thing and/or being seen at an Apple store in order to raise your social standing.

Re:Apple

[toddestan]

Apple can't control the prices retailers set for their iProducts, but if the retailer decides to sell the iProduct at a reduced price they'll suddenly find that Apple is no longer willing to do business with them. That's why a new Apple product is the same price no matter where you buy from. One thing that retailers apparently can do is bundle the iProduct with some "free" accessories which is about the only way you'll see retailers that sell Apple try and differentiate themselves.

Re:Apple

[bennomatic]

What city are you in? I've been to a few Apple stores and if anything, have to fend off the help. Last time I was at the local store, to get my iPad a few months ago, three people asked if I needed help in the five minutes it took for them to get my iPad from the back room. And the place was totally packed.

I understand that my experience is just an anecdote, but it's been consistent enough that I assumed that it was an artifact of how they train their staff; I'd be interested to know where it's different.

Honestly, what you are describing sounds more like my experience when they had the "store within a store" experiment at CompUSA. I remember not being able to drag the one salesperson away from his Tomb Raider session.

Forgot to add older stores

[xQuarkDS9x]

Older stores in the 1990's like Computer City that was active in the USA and even Canada for awhile. I had worked at Computer City in Coquitlam, British Columbia from 1997 to 1998 and it was a very sad day to see the store close down and this was even before the internet and online sales really took off.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[MightyMartian]

Margins are very low on electronics. You had to move a lot of product to keep a brick and mortar electronics store afloat even before the Internet and Walmart became such huge competitors. Quite frankly I rarely go into them any more. I find even taking shipping into account that I can find better deals online. I haven't bought an actual computer from a brick and mortar store in seven or eight years.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[SJHillman]

They're nice for when you need it NOW. A few times I've had a fan, PSU or video card die and for one reason or another, I couldn't wait for 3 day shipping (2 day and overnight shipping usually costs twice as much as the component is worth) so I headed down to Best Buy or Circuit City and grabbed it.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[Pharmboy]

Now that you mention it, I haven't bought a computer from a brick and mortar store in over 10 years. Then again, I've never been able to buy one off the shelf, or willing to pay 300 bucks for a 50 dollar ram upgrade, so I have always bought the box from one company, and the upgrades from several others. Online since before 2000. I get better service from a website than any electronics store I have ever been in.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[Savage-Rabbit]

Now that you mention it, I haven't bought a computer from a brick and mortar store in over 10 years. Then again, I've never been able to buy one off the shelf, or willing to pay 300 bucks for a 50 dollar ram upgrade, so I have always bought the box from one company, and the upgrades from several others. Online since before 2000. I get better service from a website than any electronics store I have ever been in.

I'm the exact opposite, there are just some things I like to hold in my hands, feel and test-drive before I buy them. These are things like mobile phone cases, computer mice, keyboards, tablet computers, laptops... the list goes on. Half the time photographic coverage of an item on a webstore isn't good enough or you simply can't tell what you want to know from a photo. There is nothing more annoying than, say... buying a laptop computer online and finding out afterwards that you can't stand the keyboard layout or buying a Galaxy Tab and finding out after you bought it that every time you rotate the thing you accidentally press the capacitive buttons on the sides of the monitor, dunno about you but that drove me nuts. A tour of the local retail stores can save you quite a bit of hassle.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[Hadlock]

I bought my netbook from a brick and mortar store. Back in 2009. Because netbook keyboards from that era were notoriously awful, and the netbook was going with me on a trip coming up soon. Now that Lenovo makes netbooks, I don't have to worry about this problem.
 
I will still swing by the consumer electronics aisle at office depot every 6-8 months to see what the latest models of mice/keyboards are, just in case I need to replace something via Amazon.com or Newegg in the near future. A coworker recently said, "best buy is amazon's showroom". I can't agree with that enough.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[Anonymous Coward]

that's why you have a stash of junk in a closet (i have the pieces to 3 old machines) and lot's of computers (another 3 plus a server) so that you are never ever 100% disconnected.

Re:Forgot to add older stores

[digitalsolo]

I purchased a Samsung notebook recently. It looked great online and had good reviews, but I like to FEEL the build quality and see them in person. Handily enough Best Buy stocked them. I went and played with it, decided I liked it, and then went home and purchased it at Newegg for 400 DOLLARS LESS than Best Buy. To be fair I offered Best Buy the chance to price match Newegg. They declined.

frys

[Anonymous Coward]

i miss living in texas with a frys a mile away, pittsburgh might be the city of champions but finding any decent computer components Today is nearly impossible.

Stock Price is an Effect, not a Cause

[afabbro]

I thought this looked familiar...this article was published on the Forbes web site on January 2nd. It's also a bit ranty rather than well-researched, though there's no doubt that Best Buy is not doing well.

Cutting_Crew...because Best Buy is doing poorly, its stock is down 40%. Its stock price is not one of "the reasons highlighted" for why it's doing poorly. Stock price is an effect, not a cause.

On a related note...is Fry's having problems?

Re:Stock Price is an Effect, not a Cause

[Sorthum]

Well, one of their VPs embezzled $65 million from them back in 2008, so they could probably be better...

Re:Stock Price is an Effect, not a Cause

[greg1104]

The drop in stock price is one of "the reasons highlighted" for why the company is likely to go out of business. Those words weren't used as an explanation for why the stores are doing poorly.

The two are not necessarily disconnected though. One of the last alteratives to Best Buy in this area was a chain named Tweeter. The event that caused them to accelerate toward fully out of business was not being able to finance purchasing inventory for their usual holiday season sale. The original reason for why companies sold stock (back before it was primarily around allowing early investors to cash out) was to raise capital for expansion. Depression of the stock price can itself be a cause for a company to do badly, since it reflects on things like the company's credit worthiness. This is not an insignificant thing for a retail store with a lot of cash tied up in its inventory.

I used to work for best buy

[assemblerex]

They have no concept of the competition that Amazon represents. They think in store purchases will keep them alive. They need to:
1. Fire half the staff, and only hire professional sales people (Not 30 seventeen year olds)
2. Reduce the store size by half or more.
3. Reduce prices by having less selection but enjoy the bulk purchase price point.
4. Stop high pressure pushing of accessories and service plans on people.
5. Work with vendors to have exclusive items made for them not found online (like a white or pink dyson)
Still doomed by their horrible reputation.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[wanzeo]

As someone who has spent time as an electronics sales rep, I say good riddance.

I was always as honest and informative as I could be (much more so than my coworkers), but you really can't give meaningful advice in a 10 minute sales pitch. Half of the people are coming cold to the technology, they are not going to be educated in time to make a good decision. The other half have made up their minds because of marketing, and nothing you say will convince them otherwise. And then add to that the fact that most technology purchasing is rather subjective. Just look at the heated discussions on any tech website about which products are the right choice, they go on for pages and pages. And that is between people who are already very well informed about the basic principles.

Spending a few hours reading user reviews on amazon or newegg, and being able to google unfamiliar terms, is more valuable than the most tech savy and personable sales rep. And because most sales reps are subpar, internet shopping wins by a landslide.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Alien54]

never mind that most of their profit comes from Monster Cables

Re:I used to work for best buy

[viperidaenz]

4. Stop high pressure pushing of accessories and service plans on people.

That is sometimes the only products they sell with any significant profit margin.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[dgatwood]

I agree with you except for #2 and #3. Those are the exact opposite of what they should do. The biggest thing that drives me to buy stuff online is lack of selection at local stores.

When it comes to buying expensive electronics, I spend the time to research and figure out what I want ahead of time, and then I look online to see what local stores have the product I chose. If none of them do, I order online.

When it comes to cheaper stuff (under $50), I usually go to Fry's, in part because their prices tend to be better than most other stores, but largely because they have a much broader selection than any other store, and it pisses me off to have to go to two or three stores just to find a $5 cable. If they don't have something that meets my needs, my next stop is usually Amazon, because if Fry's doesn't have it, odds are good that nobody else will have it locally.

The problem is, when I have to order online, it is usually because they didn't have one small part of a much larger order. If I have to wait a week to get some of the parts for a project, I might as well wait for all of them. This means that whenever Fry's does not have one item, they typically lose the sale of five or six more, on average. Thus, having a broad selection is the only thing preventing them from being completely overtaken by Amazon and other online retailers.

To put it in perspective, the smallest Fry's store I've ever been in was at least three times the size of the largest Best Buy store I've ever been in. This is why they are a decent place to buy electronics and Best Buy sucks. You cannot have adequate selection of electronics in a store the size of Best Buy. Making it smaller and further reducing the selection can only make it less likely that I'll find what I'm looking for, and thus more likely that I'll eventually stop bothering to try that store at all (and, frankly, BB is already too small for me to bother with it).

Re:I used to work for best buy

[jonwil]

Not only do they need to stop pushing overpriced accessories and service plans on people but they need to stop trying to convince people to buy things other than what they want.

If someone is looking at a Samsung TV, the sales drone shouldn't come over to them and try and sell them a TV from a different brand just because its more profitable to the store.

Something else they need to do is to end the culture where salespeople and stores are in competition with each other and recognize that its better to tell someone "we are out of stock on that item but the store in the next suburb has one in stock" than "we are out of stock on that item, would you like to buy instead?"

Further to that by implementing #2 and #3, they should also ensure that they have items in stock more of the time.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[silas_moeckel]

I'll second that bigger is better. They need sales staff like a hole in the head a couple of checkout people and one decent honest tech. Simple signage can tell the consume what they need to know take HD TV's, for flat panels Plasma good (it gets dimmer over time), better LCD (when the back light goes ti's trash), best lcd-led should last nearly forever in tech terms ya might get 10 years out of it, same thing for res 720p good, 1080p best, 3d subjective should try watching one for a couple hours before buying one.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[tlhIngan]

It's a cultural thing.

In Canada, we have "two" tech stores (Best Buy and Future Shop, but both are owned by Best Buy). The retail selection in Canada is far better than the B&M store in the US in my experience, showing that people still shop retail.

Of course, online, the US is way better.

The problem is there really is no reason to buy online in Canada - Amazon.ca barely sells more than books, CDs and DVDs, and at prices you can find retail. Plus you hae to pay shipping or wait a week (no Amazon Prime).

So given shopping online in Canada is really only about getting stuff you can't find in a store, the stores are doing quite well. Especially since the stuff you can find in a store - once you add shipping and such, the price is often higher than the store.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Xeranar]

1.) Best buy like most retailers pay piss poor, even after commission. Truly intelligent sales personal move up to management or into higher margin businesses (automotive/B2B).

2.) Most Best Buys I do agree are over sized but unless they're paying high rent/utilities/property tax size isn't an issue so much as utilization. They've always had a problem with low shelving, low shelves make a place seem vast except when you put it almost at eye-level, then it makes the place look crowded in an unpleasant way. They really should take it on as a store-within-a-store approach if they want to keep it that size or switch to malls and strip malls with a focused store that deals in media and one that deals in everything else.

3.) Best buy as a whole is purchasing as much as newegg and probably more. The problem for them is it's spread out too thin and eats up precious retail space. I'm in agreement though on narrowing the selection to a 3-5 in each size/variety of item and accept the Amazon/Newegg price as the real floor.

4.) Yes. No disagreement. Accessories actually should be dirt cheap so you can pickup sales. 10 $35 HDMI cables a week is fine but imagine selling 500 a week at 5-10 bucks a pop. Their size and profitability along with the word of mouth value would drive up sales alone on those. As for service plans, I say make them standard on large item purchases like TVs and large appliances along with laptops as a way of eating into the newegg/amazon advantage. The loss in repairs will be overtaken by the piece of mind sales.

5.) Yes. Complete agreement. Color is the biggest enemy of cheap speedy production. Though I would say it is honestly the biggest attractor in a market where everybody sells the same thing. If Best buy could get the major manufacturers and especially the game console manufacturers to make Best Buy-exclusive colors their sales would pick up immediately. A white PS3 or a Blue Xbox 360 would sell like hot cakes in a crowded market place.

I'm adding in...

6.) Fix your website. I position Newegg.com as the gold standard of website design for being minimalistic yet wildly powerful for searching through by requiring products to answer simple questions most people would ask. Amazon's website is about as good as Best Buy's but because they're cheaper people will slog through it. If Best Buy fixed their website to be on-par with Newegg with Amazon prices they could win back a chunk of the internet sales.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Latentius]

Just so you know, Best Buy makes next to nothing off most TVs. Offering one brand or another does little for the bottom line. However, you're failing to see a very valid reason to push accessories. Imagine someone comes into the store to buy an HDTV for the first time simply because they hear the term all the time. Now, let's go with what you're suggesting and just let them walk out with a TV alone and nothing more. Here's what will happen all too frequently (because let's be honest...the majority of people are dumb as bricks): they take the TV home, hook up their DVD player over composite cables, take one look at how crappy the picture looks and decide to return the TV because it's "a piece of junk." Now, if the salesperson encouraged them to get a Blu-Ray player and even a modest HDMI cable (they actually do have relatively cheaper ones that are just fine), sure they'll have to pay more, but when they get home and hook it up, they'll actually be pleased with the purchase, and the store won't have to eat another return. And while I'm just presenting this as a hypothetical situation, trust me when I say it is very much reality. When you surround yourself with other technologically literate individuals, it's easy to lose sight of just how techno-illiterate the general populace is. They care little for why something isn't performing up to their expectations or what they can do to fix it. Most of the time, if it isn't perfect immediately, they simply want to get rid of it. It's easy to hate Best Buy, but can you really fault them for wanting to prevent unnecessary returns?

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Latentius]

Just a correction to your first point, Best Buy salespeople don't get paid on commission; it's just a flat hourly wage. Of course, they do keep track of sales, but only to know who does a good job and who doesn't. If you hardly sell anything, you're not worth keeping around. But the point is that their pay isn't increased by selling you more products/services.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[jonwil]

Explaining to people that they should consider buying a Blu-Ray player to go with their new TV or that they need a USB cable to go with that new printer (without being too pushy) is fine. Whats NOT acceptable is when they (they being Best Buy salespeople or Best Buy as a company):
A.Push products that are bogus or unnecessary (like trying to get people to take up magazine subscriptions that they probably dont want or need or like trying to sell "extended warranties")
B.Try to hide information (e.g. not telling you except in the fine print that after you get your 8 free copies of , you are automatically subscribed to the magazine until you cancel)
C.Suggest or recommend expensive products when cheaper options will work just as good for the customer (like pushing people to buy the more expensive brand of HDMI cable when the cheaper brand is just as good)
D.Continue to push ANYTHING on a customer when the customer has said no. (i.e. "Are you sure you dont want that extended warranty?")
or E.Require salespeople to push specific items or to meet certain quotas on specific items

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Xeranar]

I have a friend who works there right now and he gets an hourly salary plus commission for working in computers. I'm not sure if it's a region-by-region deal but I do know he makes commission.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[digitalsolo]

This is my opinion as well.

There is a local hobby shop here. I'm a pretty avid RC guy. I -ALWAYS- try to buy from them first. They -NEVER- have what I'm looking for. The last time I was in there, and they offered to order in what I needed, I flat out told them I'd be buying it online. Their argument was that I should support my local hobby shop, or it would cease to exist. Valid point, but why do I care if a store that does not sell what I want goes out of business? I can order the parts online myself, I will get the RIGHT part the first time, it will cost less, I will get it sooner and I don't have to drive to the store to pick it up.

Simply existing is not a valid reason for me to be your customer. You are supposed to provide me with some type of tangible benefit.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[digitalsolo]

I disagree. You assume a level of competence that not all consumers have. The consumers with less knowledge on the subject is exactly who they need to appeal to. Those of us with a great deal of knowledge on the subject will never be their bread and butter. They need to keep the advanced consumers happy, but they need to keep the basic people happiest.

That said, one of their major failings is that they are not appealing to either customer base at this point. Pushy, non-knowledgeable staff, plus poor pricing.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Latentius]

I'd agree to those points, but I'd also contend that they're vastly overblown as far as actual prevalence. I can't recall ever hearing about magazine subscriptions, for instance. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it definitely isn't common.

The reason the salespeople push for extended warranties/tech support is that it actually can be in the customer's best interest later on; it's just that most people are focused on the NOW and don't care to consider the future. It is a lot cheaper to get a tech support plan when you get a computer than it is to purchase it on its own later on when something eventually does go wrong. It is a lot cheaper to buy accidental damage coverage for your new laptop than it is to have to pay for a new screen plus labor charges if it gets broken. (Just to name two examples.)

The problem for Best Buy is that a lot of people come into the store, hellbent on hating all of us regardless of what has actually transpired or who is at fault for their issues. I had one lady who came storming into the store, shouting about how her laptop was practically brand new and Best Buy should stand behind its products because it's already broken! The thing is, her "new" laptop was already a year old (hardly new by laptop standards). When she bought it, she got one of the cheapest models, so of course she didn't bother to spend extra for accidental damage coverage or tech support or setup. It turns out she simply managed to get a virus. The thing is, when she got her new computer, she never bothered to activate the trial antivirus that came with it, which isn't such a big deal because looking at the receipt, I could see she actually bought a decent antivirus along with the computer. The problem is, she never bothered to install the damned thing. So, completely over her own negligence, she's unprotected and manages to get herself infected. And yet, she wants us to provide service for her for free and gets downright belligerent at the suggestion of having her pay for tech support.

This is just one example, but it's far from an isolated incident. All day, every day customers just like this come in. Not all are quite as rude and hateful towards us, but the fact of the matter is that they have problems that are completely their own fault, and they want us to fix everything for free forever. I'm sorry, but that's just not how the system works, and when you try to explain that to people, many of them turn nasty. And this is part of how Best Buy gets an awful reputation with customers. For any haters out there, I would challenge you to hang around the Customer Service / Geek Squad area for even a week. You'll see all sorts of truly nasty people, and if you pay attention to why they're there and angry, you'll find out that it's most often their own fault. But what happens then? They go run off and tell everyone they know about how awful the employees are, how incompetent the store is, etc. etc.

Best Buy has a ton of flaws, but after working there, my opinion of them has changed drastically. I realize now that their reputation for bad service has more to do with bad customers than anything else, and that their "pushiness" is mild at most, and pretty much the same as you would find in ANY retail store. As for higher prices...well, if you're the kind of person (like myself) who shops at places like Newegg, Best Buy isn't really meant to cater to you. It's made for people who not only want their gadgets *now*, but those who don't necessarily know much about electronics and would like someone around to answer questions. That's the difference between Best Buy and, say, Wal-Mart, where you're lucky if there's even a person running the register who knows the first thing about electronics. The salespeople might steer you towards pricier accessories, but they don't have malicious intents, and they definitely don't deserve the widespread hatred that's directed at them online.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Latentius]

He may get special bonuses for consistently good sales, but his overall salary should not be commission-based. If you're a good salesperson, you'll make more. If you're bad, you get fired. I suppose it's possible it could vary regionally, but I know in my store, they stress very much that it is NOT a commission-based job.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Xeranar]

I haven't grilled him on it really, he's so overqualified as a salesman with his MA in health-based Information systems that I marvel he still works there. But next time I see him now I will ask him exactly how his pay is structured. We discuss Best Buy problems fairly often when we hang out so I don't necessarily understand all the intricacies but I see the overall problem and it is one faced by most Big-Box-Stores. The online world is breaking their business model and profit scale. Eventually though it will reach equilibrium as people demand same-day purchases and showrooms to a certain extent.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Latentius]

All good points.

I'm really not sure what the future of stores like Best Buy will be. The biggest threat right now is that people come into the store, get help from our salespeople, find out exactly what they want/need...and then they go find it online. They call Best Buy "Amazon's Showroom." The trouble with that, as you allude to...what happens when the likes of Amazon put all the big electronics stores out of business? What will people do when their little freebie showroom and helpful experts no longer exist?

It's the public shooting itself in the collective foot, if you ask me.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Xeranar]

I don't blame the public though. Why should they pay a 10% premium to have it today? I'm a major supporter of a more equitable system and charging sales tax is such a red herring. Best Buy doesn't want to admit that their sales network costs them extra money that Amazon doesn't have to deal with. The problem now is they need to figure out how to be competitive at Amazon prices (which means taking a substantial loss in profits but still a worthwhile business model). In the end the only answer for Best Buy is to just lower the prices and start bringing in special colors/limited editions. All the other issues are secondary to those.

Re:I used to work for best buy

[Latentius]

That's the problem though--they can't. The whole reason Amazon (and others) can maintain such low prices is that they *don't* have to have a large number of physical locations, filled with employees to manage the merchandise. Now, I could see Best Buy scaling back the number of stores, but that will only do them so much good. The bottom line is that they cannot directly compete with the likes of Amazon and Newegg.

However, they don't have to, at least not 100%. This is something I didn't learn until after I starting working at Best Buy. I used to think just like you do--"Why buy it when I can get it slightly cheaper online, and all I have to do is wait a couple days longer?" The answer to that is that Best Buy simply isn't designed for folks like you and me. We already know everything we need to know about what we're buying, and therefore can skip right to the point of finding it at the cheapest price point. The real target is the "Average Joe"--he perhaps knows a tiny bit about what he wants, but not enough to make an informed decision on his own, and he's not savvy enough to do all the research on his own.

Granted, this still present problems. Eventually, that segment of people who are not knowledgeable will dwindle. But at least for the time being, if they scaled back the number of stores, there is still a large enough group of people willing to pay the extra money to be able to see and touch the actual products, and to ask more knowledgeable people for information and advice.

As for the long run, who knows? Unless there's some drastic change in the tech landscape, the only resolution I can see is for the number of stores to continue to be cut until it reaches some sustainable balance, with only a few large stores serving relatively large regions, sort of like IKEA. Anything else would simply be trickery (like having special editions of produts that are substantially identical to more generic models, but simply have a different designation to thwart comparison shoppers).

Re:I used to work for best buy

[silas_moeckel]

That translates into they need to keep the suckers coming. Unfortunately those are the same that will happily buy the cheapest thing with the right buzzwords at walmart, big box electronic stores cant keep them happy nor can they compete with walmart on the race to the bottom.

Soon it'll be Fry's or nothing

[Scareduck]

I have my doubts about the long-term viability of Radio Shack; they're too small to carry much, they compete with with dedicated cellular carrier stores on phones and plans, and tend to be full retail pricing on everything. So that leaves Fry's or nobody.

Re:Soon it'll be Fry's or nothing

[wmelnick]

Perhaps on the West coast. Here on the East Coast it will be Microcenter.

Re:Soon it'll be Fry's or nothing

[DogDude]

Radio Shack has many different cell phone carriers, and they're the same price as the single-carrier stores. If you don't know what you want/need, Radio Shack is the best place to get cell phones, bar none.

Re:Soon it'll be Fry's or nothing

[wkk2]

I wonder about Fry's too. Our local store hasn't restocked surface mount resistors in months. Nothing like paying for over night delivery to get a badly needed 470 ohm resistor just because the peg is empty.

which class will you be? thief, warrior, mage?

[decora]

"A few days ago, I visited a Best Buy store in Pinole, CA with a friend. He’s a devoted consumer electronics and media shopper, "

oh yes, i forgot, the 'devoted consumer electronics shopper'.

They've got longer than that

[damn_registrars]

Brick & Mortar will still serve a purpose for a while yet. There will always be times when you need some widget that day, and no amount of money will solve that problem through Amazon. It might not be Best Buy, but it certainly won't be WalMart either; we will have a large nationwide chain carrying electronics for people who need something now and don't mind paying a little more for it than they would online.

That said the complaints listed in the (over 1 month old) article are very similar to what was happening at CompUSA when they were in their death spiral; young kids were being hired with no knowledge of anything, and corporate suits with decision making power were being promoted who knew even less.

Re:They've got longer than that

[Doctor_Jest]

I think people will pay a little more if they have a better experience. Stores have forgotten that, and like the failure of all those who tried to compete with Wal Mart on price, they lost. Retailers can't compete on price with the online retailers, even with sales tax (which is a nightmare of logistical nonsense just waiting in the wings)..

Retailers need to stop focusing on price and margins and wonder if there is still such a thing as customer loyalty. I don't know if there is, but companies like Best Buy don't seem to give a shit about trying. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work... but for fuck's sake, how can these companies make the SAME EXACT mistakes that their dead competitors make and expect to come out on top, or even alive for that matter? It's like watching monkeys throw shit at each other. It's funny, but you don't want to get any on you.

Re:They've got longer than that

[damn_registrars]

I think people will pay a little more if they have a better experience

That same statement is made, instead ending with "to support a local business" or "to buy an American-made product" or "to support a good cause". But in the end it's just words, words that most often are not backed up by action.

Retailers can't compete on price with the online retailers, even with sales tax (which is a nightmare of logistical nonsense just waiting in the wings)..

The problem is though - and anyone who works in retail can tell you this - customers walk in to the store and if it isn't something they need right away (and even some times if it is) they'll say "I can buy it for less through [random fly-by-night online site that's been up less than a week]". So the retailers have to be aware of their online competition and at least put up a good fight on price.

Retailers need to stop focusing on price and margins and wonder if there is still such a thing as customer loyalty. I don't know if there is, but companies like Best Buy don't seem to give a shit about trying.

I'm moderately happy with their rewardzone program. Granted I live in a place where there is no alternative for electronics if I can't wait for them to be shipped, so they have me in somewhat of a bind.

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work... but for fuck's sake, how can these companies make the SAME EXACT mistakes that their dead competitors make and expect to come out on top, or even alive for that matter?

Because they all get lead down the same street. They all face the same customers.

The real tragedy, though, is that they all promote the same kind of shit-for-brains thinking to upper management. Not only do they push the stores to select for the least knowledgeable (and hence least expensive on payroll) employees, they also strive to give their employees as little power as possible when dealing with customers.

Quite honestly, many of the employees at Best Buy couldn't give you good customer service even if they wanted to, as they simply are not allowed to do such a thing. I saw the same thing as an employee at CompUSA and now I can see it in the employees at Best Buy with myself as a customer.

Re:They've got longer than that

[Mitreya]

That same statement is made, instead ending with "to support a local business" or "to buy an American-made product" or "to support a good cause". But in the end it's just words, words that most often are not backed up by action.

I think quite a few people would pay extra for good service/local product/etc. These things are just getting impossible to do. Hard to back things up with action when it isn't possible
I would gladly pay some extra for American-made products. Have you _tried_ to do that? My last two laptops (Fujitsu a few years ago and Sony recently) were made in Japan. Beyond that I don't remember seeing _any_ electronic product that was not made in Japan. There just aren't any.
And, to continue my point, neither of these laptops could be found in-store to even see it first hand. A few years ago I could not find a store that carried the Fujitsu one. Sony laptop that I bought could only be seen in a store that's almost an hour away, with no direct public transport route (that's from Chicago downtown, mind you). All the nearby electronics stores mostly carry the same 400-dollar cheap laptops. And I don't even know if any laptops are made in America (?)

Re:They've got longer than that

[itsdapead]

There will always be times when you need some widget that day, and no amount of money will solve that problem through Amazon.

That's what they don't seem to "get" with their web presence: If I visit a B&M store's website then it means I want to go and pick something up, or look at it before I buy. What I want is to check stock, find out whether its on display and (possibly) reserve it: if I was planning on buying it online I'd go through Amazon or a price comparison site.

Yet, when you go to the typical store's website what you find is an online store with B&M prices - plus some "web exclusive prices" that are still sub-par. Yes, you can usually check stock & reserve (but you often have to add the item to your basket and "go to checkout" to get that far) but I've never seen the "is it on display?" feature.

They're trying to hedge their bets by branching out into online sales, in competition with their own stores, rather than using the web to drive business to their expensively maintained stores. That seems futile: B&M stores can't compete with big, well-established online sellers' prices or range.

If I visit a B&M store website, the first page ought to ask me to choose my local store (or guess it using geolocation) and from then on it should be showing me stock, offers and what was on display at that store. If something was out-of-stock then the site should show the nearest store that had it, or an ETA and only as a last resort the option to buy online. Even with online sales, the option to pay a deposit and have the goods delivered to my local store would be a USP over Amazon: getting packages delivered can be a pain if you work full-time and don't want to/aren't allowed to get stuff delivered to your workplace.

Re:They've got longer than that

[Hatta]

I think people will pay a little more if they have a better experience.

The better experience is online. In a B&M store, first I have to get off my ass and actually spend time at the store. That's one big demerit. Then, once I find the item I want I have no opportunity to price check other vendors or read reviews. That's another big demerit.

What better experience do the B&M have to offer? They can't beat the price online. They can't beat the convenience online. They only exist for those who can't wait 5 days for a part. In 99% of situations, I'd rather wait 5 days than make a special trip.

Re:They've got longer than that

[damn_registrars]

CompUSA I cared and still care that they went under

As a former employee of CompUSA - and I worked there before it was bought out by the richest man in Mexico - I find it puzzling that you would care that they went under. I presume you were not aware of how thoroughly dysfunctional they were at the top. The number of things that us lowly employees were strictly forbidden from doing for customers; obvious things like special ordering parts that were in the system or providing very simple parts like case fans, was astonishing. Instead they wanted their staff to focus on how to sell cables, extended warranties, and later televisions, movies, musical instruments, and r/c toys.

I can't find a local place that has the computer cable and small parts selection they had.

Unfortunately they had the worst prices on all of those, as they were selected for extreme margin. Markup on most cables ranged from 400-800% or more.

And of course they wondered why nobody wanted to pay $70 for a firewire cable, after sending hundreds of them to every store. We generally had 3-4 times more 5' firewire cables than the total number of firewire devices in the store.

Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Peter Simpson]

When there's Newegg? I mean, honestly: $25 USB cables and re-boxed returns vs easy return, no tax and better prices (even including shipping).

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Sorthum]

The sole reason to go to a BestBuy is "I need this item today." That's about it.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[mark-t]

The convenience of being able to just drive to the store and pick it up at the time that you determine you need it.

Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with online shopping... just saying that brick-and-mortar still has at least one distinct advantage, until we invent star-trek style transporters that can just beam the stuff directly to your computer within mere hours or possibly even minutes of you completing your order.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Hentes]

With most online stores you can go to the storage building and pick the stuff up just the same. There are also stores where you can order something in the morning and pick it up at 6pm the same day.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[the eric conspiracy]

My solution to that is:

1. Plan ahead.

2. Maintain a stock of cables in my garage.

I find the convenience of walking the 20 feet from my family room to my garage to be way better than the convenience factor of driving to a Best Buy and dealing with their ridiculous prices.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[DogDude]

$25 USB cables

Wow. Was that a typo? My local independent computer retailer sells most USB cables for $5-$10.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[mark-t]

How convenient for you to be perfect, and never make mistakes about what is going to happen.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[mark-t]

I thought this was obvious, but I was actually comparing brick-and-mortar to online shopping in general, and not simply ordering online from a physical store or storage facility that is obviously already local.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[lymond01]

And Best Buy needs to consider that. Drop its online prices. Up its in-store service and knowledge. Work to maintain its employees for more than 6 months. Hire people at reasonable salaries, train them regularly, don't mess with their schedules without telling them. As it stands now, most of the employees in Best Buy are high school kids who stand around and chat with each other, don't know the answer to your questions, and will be gone in 3 months. This is no way to sustain a business where knowledge is useful. Let the transitive staff wait tables. Hire real employees and pay them real money and treat them like real company employees.

The only problem with Best Buy is that management doesn't see the company's role in the new age. And since they're lost, they feel their company is lost, so they treat all their employees like a 4 year old's goldfish.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[tibit]

A 3' USB 2 cable costs $2.02 at Digi-Key (stock# Q361-ND), qty 1. With USPS shipping it'll still be less than $10 total ;)

If you're buying something that's a generic electronic component/assembly, you don't go to a computer store, you go to an electronics distributor.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[greg1104]

If you have some number of computers or help other people with theirs, the main things worth keeping some stock on are cables (USB and network) and a power supply. Recently I've added HDMI cables to that list too. They're all relatively inexpensive, have high markup when you do buy them retail, and are likely things to need. When I use up my last spare network cable or lose a power supply and install the spare, I order a replacement unit/batch the next time it's convienent. The way people use these items as examples to justify why retail should exist boggles my mind a bit. Keeping a small stock of items that are cheap online, expensive at retail, and commonly used is easy to justify as a sensible investment.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[number11]

$25 USB cables

Wow. Was that a typo? My local independent computer retailer sells most USB cables for $5-$10.

And monoprice sells them for a dollar or two.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Kozz]

The sole reason to go to a BestBuy is "I need this item today." That's about it.

Actually, my other reason is, "I should get around to spending the Best Buy gift card my (boss|mother|sister-in-law|whoever) gave me."

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Hadlock]

When I bought my new smartphone I found an offbrand 3' cable for $0.99 on amazon. I bought ten of them along with a dock for my phone and two USB wall warts which came out to just over the amount needed for free shipping. Rather than hunting for a cable, I always know I have two in my car, two in my travel bag, two at the computer and four spares in the junk drawer.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[lightknight]

Monitor cables (VGA, DVI). Spare mice and keyboards.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[tixxit]

I went to BestBuy during lunch the other day to get a USB Micro USB B cable, since I needed it that day. I was expecting to pay far more than it was worth, probably $10. Nope. $20 + tax. For a 3 ft. cable. I walked back to work, went on Monoprice.com, and got 4 cables shipped for $10. Knocking up prices for those impulsive buys is fine, I expect it, but keep it within reason. $10 for a USB cable is overpriced, but $20 is completely unjustifiable.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[tibit]

I guess the "premium" from a distributor is for the fact that there is a stock number, and a stock to go with it -- perhaps even stock that won't vanish in a year. And some sort of acceptance process, presumably with people who know their shit and are not just buying whatever is the cheapest at the moment. With a random off-brand cable you'll have no recourse if they faked their USB compliance -- it's likely that in a month you'll not be able to buy exact same make of cable anymore, never mind trying a return... Sure, for non-critical use it's OK, but you'll probably agree that paying 2x the price for certain peace of mind doesn't exactly hurt. The cable you got on Amazon is of course not from amazon itself, but from some 3rd party vendor. It's no different than buying on eBay. All that amazon and eBay do is provide hosting, payment processing, and supposedly enforce some basic rules. Now I do buy critical infrastructure parts (patch cables, network switches, servers, UPSes) from eBay sellers, but that's after I vet a vendor and test the products they offer. If I need a replacement sight-unseen tomorrow, I buy either directly from the manufacturer (say from HP or Dell), or I go to a distributor like Digi-Key, Allied Electronics, Mouser, Newark, Jameco, etc. Or, better yet, if I truly need a replacement within 24 hours, I just keep one on hand.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[garyoa1]

And then there is monoprice.com that hacks the crap out of all of them for cables n' such.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[FoolishOwl]

I keep thinking that. But I keep discovering that they don't actually have in stock what they claim online to have in stock, and that for what they do have, their prices are 20% or more higher than the Office Depot downstairs.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[bill_mcgonigle]

The sole reason to go to a BestBuy is "I need this item today." That's about it.

But don't over-buy. I was in a bind and bought two cables because I didn't know which one I needed. I paid cash. I brought one back and they wanted to put my drivers license number into their database to take a return.

Hell no! Who needs a $40 20' RCA cable?

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[antdude]

And to see and touch sample/demo ones.

How is Buy More doing?

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Grishnakh]

For a lot of common parts like that, you can get them at Walmart or Target for a lot less than BestBuy.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[tixxit]

Yes, but there are no Walmarts in downtown Toronto, so going to a Walmart, when I "want it now," is no better than just ordering it on-line.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Grishnakh]

How about Target? Or the Canadian equivalent, whatever that is? Or Canadian Tire? My point is that, at least in our big general-merchandise stores like Walmart and others, which have an electronics section, they frequently have an aisle with some computer parts, mainly keyboards, mice, and cables. It's nothing fancy, but it's cheap and functional, and beats going to Best Buy. I don't know about where you live, but there's Targets and Walmarts all over this place; I have a Walmart about 1/2 mile in one direction, and a Target about 1.25 miles in the other. Whereas the nearest Best Buy is at least 7 miles away.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[Hadlock]

At a dollar a cable, even if they fail, you're still coming out ahead. Products purchased for mission critical operations should already come with all the necessary cables. I wouldn't buy a $1.00 cable for mission critical devices, but of all the cheap cables I've bought for consumer items, I haven't yet had a cable failure. Also, cables under 3m generally always work regardless of quality.

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[tibit]

I generally agree, and I've never had an eBay cable fail. I have another anecdote, though. Dollar Tree (a dollar store) sold some perhaps 2' USB cables that had absolutely puny cross sections on power conductors. They'd never be considered USB compliant. They worked OK for self-powered devices but not for anything that would suck more than about 100mA. This isn't exactly a failure, but those were not good for what I tried them for (devices that suck ~350mA).

Re:Why should I buy stuff from Best Buy?

[mark-t]

Canadian Tire wouldn't generally carry USB cables. Target is pretty much a newcomer to Canada - only just starting up here last year. I don't know how many of them are near the downtown Toronto area.

There's an NCIX store, however, that's about 20 minutes drive from downtown Toronto, at least according to Google maps, and they would definitely have USB cables - at far lower prices than one would pay at Futureshop or Best Buy.

Can't say how they'd compete with Target because I've never shopped there.

CompUSA closed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when did CompUSA close? I was just in a CompUSA YESTERDAY. Granted the sign on the road changed to Tigerdirect.com, but the building is still CompUSA. I honestly didnt know they had ever closed anything.

Re:CompUSA closed?

[dak664]

Tigerdirect parent Systemax bought some compusa stores after their bankrupcy and are most likely monitoring the response to the alternate branding. Compusa became a nerds hell a decade ago, Tigerdirect was a change for the good, but is regressing to purgatory in the store I am familiar with. At least their web site seems sync'd with the retail stores.

Re:CompUSA closed?

[hal2814]

We have a CompUSA near my home. It's not the same CompUSA that existed in the 90's. TigerDirect merely slapped the CompUSA name on their retail stores. It's a very different place now.

Re:CompUSA closed?

[metalgamer84]

They closed all of the CompUSA's here in Minnesota awhile ago. Which is a shame, I liked the stores alot.

Because they're not a tech store

[gelfling]

They sell TV's, car stereos, washing machines and video games.

Re:Because they're not a tech store

[the eric conspiracy]

Don't forget the $100 Monster HDMI cables.

Re:Because they're not a tech store

[bill_mcgonigle]

They sell TV's, car stereos, washing machines and video games.

Among the most sublime of agricultural products.

Re:Because they're not a tech store

[metalgamer84]

$100 Monster cable? Dont be a fool. For a *slight* price increase you can have the best HDMI cable known to man: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQuest+-+Diamond+3.3'+High-Speed+HDMI+Cable+-+Dark+Gray/Black/2383276.p?id=1218324437192&skuId=2383276&st=audioquest&cp=1&lp=4

Re:Because they're not a tech store

[nobaloney]

But they at least offer 18 months financing :).

Well, this is ironic....

[mark-t]

I thought that in Canada, Futureshop stores were being gradually phased out in favor of Best Buy, who now owns the former chain.

Re:Well, this is ironic....

[ceoyoyo]

They tend to build a Future Shop and a Best Buy right across from each other in the same plaza, so I'm not sure what they're going to do if they're actually phasing out Future Shop. None of the ones I know, in several cities, have been closed.

Too bad if it's true - Future Shop leaves you slightly less in need of a shower when you go there than does Best Buy.

I never understood how they stayed in business....

[dgatwood]

With consistently higher prices and terrible customer service policies, I can't imagine how Best Buy has stayed in business as long as they have. There's a reason I've always called them "Worst Buy". They usually are.

To give you an idea of their customer service, I priced a product online with Google, and it told me that Best Buy had it for a great price. I went there, and found that they had just raised their price by nearly a hundred bucks. I knew this because they had a recently returned unit available for less than their previous price. I bought the returned unit.

Unfortunately, it was defective (flaky HDMI output). At most stores, when a product is DOA, you can go in and they'll swap it out with a working one. Not at Best Buy. Because they didn't have any more customer-returned products from when the price was lower, my only option (at their store) was to pay an extra $120 to get a working product.

I pointed out that their new, higher price was about thirty or forty dollars higher than Fry's, just two blocks away, and over a hundred dollars higher than Amazon. Needless to say, I opted for a refund.

I then drove to Fry's. They matched Amazon's price, so I ended up getting it for almost exactly what Best Buy had been charging two weeks earlier.

Why anyone ever darkens the door of Best Buy is beyond me. I could see buying stuff like DVDs from Best Buy online (where you can price compare easily), but just walking into the store, your odds of getting even an acceptable deal are right up there with winning the lottery.

I find best buy to be frustrating

[Osgeld]

The closest one to me is a good 40 min away, and when you get there its almost a circus of disorganization. Example when you walk into our location theres geek squad, and some networking on the first isle, then pens and paper and post-it notes, then printers, then celphone accessories, then laptops then camera accessories, oh then celphones, then laptop accessories and on and on until your in the back of the store looking for the power supply you went there for in the first place they are out ... even though their website says in stock in that store.

so while you are somewhat forced to check every fucking isle cause they are now interweaving departments, that way you wont miss some stupid gadget you dont want, you cant find anyone to answer a simple question cause all 3 of them are busy upselling the newest HP laptop and your wasting your time cause these people wouldn't know what they have in stock even if they were paid to.

Hm sounds just like compUSA doesnt it?

The only reason I ever go in there anymore is because once in a while you can find a openbox or floor model deal, which is why I have a stainless steel microwave that only cost 35 bucks, but its at the very bottom of my list to even consider when I am out to get something specific.

Microcenter?

[iamhassi]

Ummm.... doesn't Microcenter count? Guess not according to Forbes, because in 2006 they had 19 stores, 20 in 2007, 21 in 2008, and in 2012 Microcenter has 23 stores. Sure that's slow growth, but still growth none-the-less, and they're much better than CompUSA, Circuit City (is Circuit City "tech"?) and Best Buy because Microcenter actually has competitive prices.

Want a new MSI Geforce GTX 580 video card? $500 from Newegg, $520 from Microcenter. Think I'd just pay that extra 4% to have the card TODAY and have a local shop to return/exchange it to if there's a problem and judging from the 13% 1-egg reviews I'd there is a good risk there could be a problem.

Re:Microcenter?

[iamhassi]

Need a drive in a hurry? 2tb for $130 at Microcenter, same price as Newegg. Gee, do I wanna wait a week or have the drive in my PC this afternoon? Decisions, decisions.... oh Newegg wants $7.86 shipping? Microcenter it is!

But I guess if the Forbes reporter included Microcenter that would have gone against his 5-page theory generating god knows how many banner ads. Best we just forget Microcenter exists so Forbes can make a few extra $$$ off ads. Selling out journalistic honesty to make a few bucks? You betcha!

Re:Microcenter?

[russotto]

Ummm.... doesn't Microcenter count? Guess not according to Forbes, because in 2006 they had 19 stores, 20 in 2007, 21 in 2008, and in 2012 Microcenter has 23 stores. Sure that's slow growth, but still growth none-the-less, and they're much better than CompUSA, Circuit City (is Circuit City "tech"?) and Best Buy because Microcenter actually has competitive prices.

They also tend to have stuff in stock, and for many items (printers, monitors) working items you can examine. Why would you go to a store when you could order online for much less? Three good reasons
1) You want it now
2) Shipping cost overwhelms the price difference
3) You'd like to take a look at it before buying it

But most brick and mortar retailers mess up _all three_. They won't carry much and what they carry they won't keep in stock, so you have a good chance of not finding what you want. For things where shipping cost is significant (e.g. cables), they'll carry only ridiculously-priced brands so they're STILL more expensive than ordering online + shipping (even for one lousy cable). And if they have any samples out, they're often obviously broken, and usually not actually working.

Re:Microcenter?

[tibit]

I have to agree. Their prices are mostly competitive, they even have deals that can compete with eBay -- say, refurbed white intel macbooks. You can always get a lemon, but with eBay you can never be sure how easy the return and refund is going to be.

Re:Microcenter?

[masshuu]

anytime I walk into Frys here, they (try to) hand me a paper guaranteeing their price is the same or lower than newegg or amazon.

Re:Microcenter?

[mcavic]

Yes, I really don't see it as the death of brick and mortar stores, but a consolidation. We need good tech stores. We don't need office supply stores trying to be tech stores.

Re:Microcenter?

[karnal]

Sales tax here adds on $8.13. So Newegg is cheaper (granted, not by much, but still)

Re:Microcenter?

[lawpoop]

4) You can return it at no loss to yourself -- you didn't pay shipping in the first place, nor do you pay to ship it back.

Re:Microcenter?

[greg1104]

Best Buy has over 1000 stores. Microcenter has, as you state, 23. That they don't really count here is a statistical observation; the odds that someone in the US lives near a Microcenter is pretty small. Microcenter's main competitive advantage, as I see it, in their staying small is that they've only entered profitable markets. For example, here in Baltimore, the closest Microcenter is over an hour drive away. That's because they haven't even considered this city a big enough market. Instead they only have stores in the denser areas near Washington DC and northern Virigina, where there are more tech buyers per square mile nearby than here.

It's generally believed that all of Apple's stores are doing well. They have a higher margin business and waste a lot less money in inventory, rent, and stock logistics than Best Buy. At last count there were 361 of them in the world. It's possible to build a successful retail store selling tech items in some places, but I doubt there are over a 1000 places that will work at. Best Buy has bet there are, and has been losing that bet for years now.

Re:Microcenter?

[dgatwood]

Most online stores these days offer free shipping, and many (Amazon, for example) will even eat the shipping cost for returns. And yet they still come out cheaper than local stores in many cases. So I don't think #4 really applies as often as it used to.

#3 doesn't always apply, either. Many people go to the local store to see the product, then order it online when they see how much more expensive it is locally. In effect, #3 only applies when #2 also applies, making #3 irrelevant.

I would say that #1 is the most important thing in a local store—having a wide enough selection to meet the customer's needs most of the time. Fry's = good. Best Buy = screwed.

Re:Microcenter?

[prehistoricman5]

And they actually hold to that promise. Having a smartphone is handy for this. Find some item for sale on newegg, walk to your local frys and show them the item on your phone and pay the same price that you would have had it been online (keep in mind that they're gonna add shipping to the online price). I've done this before and it actually works.

Re:Microcenter?

[a_nonamiss]

Micro Center will straight up match Newegg prices. Last week, I got a $229 ASUS Wi-Fi router for $179, and Newegg didn't even have it in stock. I used to work there, and the owner has a very distinct philosophy. They don't (or at least they didn't) take on investors, and they pay for their expansion up front rather than borrowing for it and paying interest on loans. It's much slower growth that way, but they can keep their prices lower without having to constantly impress their investors and driving up their profits. From what I gather from former co-workers that I keep in touch with, they are doing fine financially. I didn't care for working there, but as an IT professional who's constantly in need of same-day parts, I thank the maker that I have one ten minutes drive from me.

Re:Microcenter?

[Daniel_Staal]

The five-pages theory was that Best Buy is incompentenly run, and will be dead before they fix things. They didn't say anything about any other retailer directly - other than it's a competitive market, and you had better treat the customer well. Microcenter probably isn't even on his radar; if it was, they would probably compare-contrast, to show how Best Buy should be run.

Re:Microcenter?

[Renraku]

CompUSA: 40GB Western Digitial Hard Drive, 7200 RPM: $250.
Newegg: 40GB Western Digital Hard Drive, $65.

BestBuy: GeForce 250 Video Card: $199
Newegg: GeForce 250 Video Card: $80 with $20 rebate

Walmart: 1TB External USB Drive: $129.99
Newegg: 1TB External USB Drive: $129.99

Even fucking Walmart has a clue when it comes to computer parts, how come the other stores couldn't? I understand margins are low, but margins are even lower if not many people buy from there.

Re:Microcenter?

[PastTense]

No loss? Have you ever returned something? There is a substantial time expenditure and well as the cost for your transportation.

Re:Microcenter?

[lightknight]

Ask yourself this: do you think any real techs are in the upper levels of those companies? Do you think the guys in marketing / sales actually know what products techs will want before they are shipping? And the intelligence here of trying to soak the kind of people who won't buy a phone that can't be tethered to their laptop...if there's a lower price, they'll find it.

If you want to run a tech store, it's important to stock the odd-ball, low margin things. That's what draws them in, duh (because if they need that hex-nut screwdriver that only works for one model of Nokia phones, they need it now). Someone walks in to get a solder iron, sees that you have hard drives for prices comparable to those online, and they buy one or several of them.

Arguably, it's one of the things that MicroCenter does do right: they do keep a large stock of oddball parts around. And when their sales guys cut you a deal, it tends to be a decent deal, especially compared to the sh*t which passes for good deals these days (why yes, Dominos, I can use a coupon for two cheezy breads for $6.99 each...which is the same price without using the coupon...).

So yes, with the tech crowd, you don't want to soak the customer. You want to build, of all things, loyalty, by actually having the part they need in stock, no matter how exotic. And yes, that does cross-over into other, overlapping markets, as I found out recently (the electrical / industrial / lighting / manufacturing guys for some of the bigger forms of equipment out there apparently share a few components with the smaller form-factor tech guys.

Finally, once you have a formula that works, don't ruin it. If you want to experiment, open a new store under a different name. It's cheaper, and it doesn't damage your brand image. I'm looking at you, B&N. Going to make it a life goal to get those toy aisles evicted from the bookstore (just open a new store, called B&N Toys, and leave what limited shelf space you have for the people who actually buy books). Or add a few new floors to your stores.

Re:Microcenter?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know your supposed to pay taxes (in most states in the US) even on internet purchases? I lived and both GA and SC and at the end of the year on your taxes your "supposed to" claim all interstate purchases and pay the correct sales tax for your county. Guess it won't hit you unless you get a state audit.

Re:Microcenter?

[trparky]

They also have some damn good prices on processors. Someone once told me that Microcenter sells processors as a loss leader, as in they sell them lower in price so as to leave room in your wallet for other products.

For instance... Microcenter sells the Intel Core i7-2600 chip for $50 less than Newegg.com. Intel Core i7-960 is priced $60 cheaper at Microcenter than Newegg.com.

Re:Microcenter?

[Patch86]

They sound great and all, but I can't blame Forbes for not talking about a chain with only 23 stores. At least half of the US states won't have one, and 90% of customers are unlikely to have one in driving distance. It's good that there are a few small chains and indys still flourishing out there, but it in no way counteracts the (theorized) death of a multi-national giant like Best Buy, Borders, or Circuit City.

That said, I've been reading articles about "the death of bricks and mortar [thing] stores" for a decade or more now, and it never seems to actually happen. A few big chains collapse, but there's always someone left standing. My recession-hit local town centre still has a book shop, several record shops, at least four computer game shops, a couple of tech shops, a home appliance shop, and god knows how many survivors of similar so-called dying breeds. Far fewer than there used to be, sure, but the stragglers are still there.

Re:Microcenter?

[TarPitt]

Why would you go to a store when you could order online for much less? Three good reasons
1) You want it now
2) Shipping cost overwhelms the price difference
3) You'd like to take a look at it before buying it

and

4) there is nobody to accept deliveries at your home during the day, meaning you either accept the high risk of theft (if the package is left by your door) or you have the pleasure spending your evening at a UPS depot on the edges of the ghetto

Re:Microcenter?

[csnydermvpsoft]

Sales tax here adds on $8.13. So Newegg is cheaper (granted, not by much, but still)

I'd rather pay a little extra to have the money go to my state rather than to the shipping carrier, as my state provides lots of things that I like (as well as some things that I don't like, but that other people like).

Re:Microcenter?

[fuzznutz]

4) there is nobody to accept deliveries at your home during the day, meaning you either accept the high risk of theft (if the package is left by your door) or you have the pleasure spending your evening at a UPS depot on the edges of the ghetto

I do most of my shopping online now and I have never had an issue with theft. I have to admit though that my house sits on 1/2 acre so my neighbors are not sitting right on top of me and the UPS guy usually shows up around 6:30 or 7:00 in the evening. However, I never had an issue with theft when I lived in my condo either and it was quite densely populated there.

Re:Microcenter?

[griffinme]

I love the Microcenter near me. Yes, it is three times further then Best Buy but I don't have to worry about idiots trying to rip me off. Here are two experiences for examples:

1) I was looking for a particular motherboard. The sales guy saw me looking at them and comparing them. He warned me about getting that model, "Those are very flaky. See those with the stickers? Those are ones that were returned. We tested them and they work fine but there must be a reason so many are getting returned."

2) I went in looking for a half height video card. I told the sales guy that this model was supposed to support half height. He wasn't sure and opened up the box so we could look at it. If you opened the box at Best Buy they would look at you like you were planning on stealing it.

I can't tell you the number of times I have gone in looking for some weird adapter and had them say, "Sure, we have it three different styles." These guys even knew what kind of adapter I was looking for from just my description.

My brother-in-law has a Tiger Direct store near him that he is proud of. It was half the size and 1/4 the selection of Microcenter.

Re:Microcenter?

[minstrelmike]

Sounds like the Ace Hardware philosophy. Develop _customers_; don't worry about each particular sale. They will point me to someone else if they don't have it so Ace is _always_ my first choice.

try to think like a Forbes reader

[decora]

you are probably a hedge fund guy, or friends with a hedge fund guy, or some other type of person who makes money by buying and selling big chunks of other people.

you see a story about an electronics retailer.

they see a story about an opportunity to short sell or buy credit default swaps against a company's debt. imagine if you are sitting at a poker table and instead of chips you are playing with coins that each say '1 million dollars'. you can start to get an inkling of the mindset here. you dont care if the other people at the table are nurses, waiters, hairdressers, authors, poets, politicians, soldiers, etc. all you care about is what is in their hand, and which way the game is going to go, because you can get rich off of it, but more importantly, you can get the high you get from winning. thats what the "their stock price is down" thing means. it doesnt pretend to have any intelligent commentary on cause and effect. its poker information for poker players.

Re:try to think like a Forbes reader

[Anonymous Coward]

Forbes is not too far behind. Every article I've read from Forbes in the past 2 months has been a troll. The desperation is evident. Soon people will get their information about stocks from smartphones and online sources which are updated realtime, instead of through shrill gotcha's.

I'm not sure what Forbes is selling these days, but if I were at the gambler's table, I'd bet against them.

Re:try to think like a Forbes reader

[Anonymous Coward]

Forbes is read mainly by non-finance types with aspirations of being in finance or thinking it will impress people when they place it just so on the coffee table. Here's a somewhat dated summary, but a quick google will show that Forbes readers are not particularly affluent.

MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME - Top 10 Magazines

1. Inc. $92,817
2. Forbes $88,889
3. Architectural Digest $86,923
4. Conde Nast Traveler $86,417
5. Kiplinger’s Personal Finance $85,635
6. Skiing $85,496
7. Coastal Living $84,873
8. Fortune $83,042
9. Business Week $82,963
10. Scientific American $82,131
23. Money $78,044
38. SmartMoney $72,277

Reviews work for me...

[rwade]

For what it's worth, I have never been disappointed by anything -- electronic, clothes, home goods, whatever -- that I bought from Amazon that has more than 10 reviews and 4+ stars. And when you look at TVs on Amazon, you don't have to rely on 10 reviews -- most TVs have hundreds of reviews to rely on.

Good riddance.

[Higgins_Boson]

Best Buy is a horrible, horrible place. Those stores are typically overpriced, asshole-filled warehouses with a stench I can only guess is dead animals hidden in the car audio department. Lump all that in with morons on the sales team and even bigger morons in management and you have the reason this place will not be missed by most people.

If you are a Best Buy idiot (read: employee), I apologize for offending you... but you deserve it. Last time I went to a Best Buy was to buy a family member a flat-screen LCD television. I asked for help from no less than 5 people before someone ACTUALLY came back "in a couple of minutes" as promised repeatedly. It was a mistake, especially since the same set was $70 cheaper online. Too bad it was too close to Christmas at the time to bother ordering it online.

Good riddance, assholes.

P.S.
I am sure this will be modded flamebait or troll or whatever... I simply do not care. Especially since those titles (flamer and troll) are used to say "I disagree with you" these days, instead of what they are really meant for. Which is to label someone who actually IS trolling.

Re:Good riddance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I went to a Best Buy was to buy a family member a flat-screen LCD television. I asked for help from no less than 5 people before someone ACTUALLY came back "in a couple of minutes" as promised repeatedly. It was a mistake, especially since the same set was $70 cheaper online. Too bad it was too close to Christmas at the time to bother ordering it online.

So you came in during the busy season and obviously stood next to a cheap "end-cap" (at the end of a row) item designed for "grab and go" or you stood in the 32" and less section. No one buying low margin tvs gets much attention during the busy season, just the facts of life when you're busy selling 42-60" models that actually have more than $15-75 margin and a much better chance at attaching a service plan. It's the same as you standing next to the $1000 special at a used car lot while they're busying selling $8000-12000 cars to everyone else they can get a chance to help (and boy they are busy), and then you boohoohooing that no one wants to help you. It's not that they didn't want to help you, it's just that you're not worth their time versus the other customers.

Re:Good riddance.

[Higgins_Boson]

So you came in during the busy season and obviously stood next to a cheap "end-cap" (at the end of a row) item designed for "grab and go" or you stood in the 32" and less section. No one buying low margin tvs gets much attention during the busy season, just the facts of life when you're busy selling 42-60" models that actually have more than $15-75 margin and a much better chance at attaching a service plan. It's the same as you standing next to the $1000 special at a used car lot while they're busying selling $8000-12000 cars to everyone else they can get a chance to help (and boy they are busy), and then you boohoohooing that no one wants to help you. It's not that they didn't want to help you, it's just that you're not worth their time versus the other customers.

So you constantly keep 47" televisions on end caps? If they are on end caps, then why are they still so damned expensive?

As far as "busy season" goes... why does it matter? Good customer service is a 24/7/365 job. It doesn't stop when you NEED people's business most, which is DURING the "busy season." And yes, that Samsung WAS $70 cheaper online. Not a high margin, but still $70 I could have used to shop in a better store with more intelligent "Anonymous Cowards" to show me their quality service.

Anyway, your inane and very bitter post makes no sense all over. Even if someone were going in to a store to buy a pack a batteries and nothing else, they should still get help and respect. Something not a single Best Buy employee, past or present, has ever been able to provide to customers. This is why you will be flipping burgers when they close, instead of moving up in the world.

Thought I'd mention Staples.

[taxman_10m]

Every time I go into a Staples they have more and more computer stuff. They seem to be doing ok.

Re:Thought I'd mention Staples.

[iggymanz]

office depot and officemax have computer stuff too. and there is Fry's and there is still Radio Shack.

Re:Thought I'd mention Staples.

[Higgins_Boson]

office depot and officemax have computer stuff too. and there is Fry's and there is still Radio Shack.

Yeah... but Rat Shack probably won't last much longer, either. They are insanely overpriced. Hell... going from RS to a Best Buy is like walking into the biggest sale you've ever seen.

Re:Thought I'd mention Staples.

[Zibodiz]

Being a former manager for Office Depot, let me explain their tech side. They make no money on tech. At all. They bring people in for the tech items, then make money by convincing them that they also need a package of pens or some stationary. It was never about tech -- tech just brought the people in. The markup on tech was typically 0-15%. The markup on 'supplies' (i.e. everything else, including furniture) was 50-95%. Copy center was the biggest cash cow, with a minimum 75% markup on everything.

Re:Thought I'd mention Staples.

[iggymanz]

I think they'll muddle along as they always have. they're the convenience store instead of grocery store... the weirdo plugs and adapters that no one else locally has, the universal dc power supplies, a roll of wire, the odd discrete electronic component....

What about Apple?

[diamondmagic]

The Apple Store should disprove this, though: At $4,032 per square foot per year, the NYC Apple Store is the most profitable retail store per square foot in the world, period.

Re:What about Apple?

[atriusofbricia]

The Apple Store should disprove this, though: At $4,032 per square foot per year, the NYC Apple Store is the most profitable retail store per square foot in the world, period.

As I said earlier... Apple Stores are not technology stores. They are fashion stores. Period.

Re:What about Apple?

[Anonymous Coward]

I say they're really fetish stores.

Re:What about Apple?

[ceoyoyo]

Repeating some silly assertion doesn't make it true. Neither does putting "Period." after it.

Re:What about Apple?

[atriusofbricia]

Repeating some silly assertion doesn't make it true. Neither does putting "Period." after it.

You can call it silly if you wish. It changes nothing. Apple stores are more about image and fashion than electronics.

Re:What about Apple?

[ceoyoyo]

Yes, we know. You have expressed your opinion. Several times.

Re:What about Apple?

[Jeremi]

As I said earlier... Apple Stores are not technology stores. They are fashion stores. Period.

Surely they are both? It's not like people go to an Apple store to buy clothes.

(Although come to think of it, a rack of black turtlenecks probably would sell like hotcakes)

Re:What about Apple?

[Lincolnshire Poacher]

At $4,032 per square foot per year, the NYC Apple Store is the most profitable retail store per square foot in the world, period.

First, that figure refers to sales, not profit.

Second, the record is still held by Richer Sound's London Bridge store. The last figure I saw was from 1995 at £5,870 per square foot ( about $10,000 ).

Please stop hyping Apple with inaccurate information

Re:What about Apple?

[TheSpoom]

Use "I" not "we" please. I happen to agree with the GP. Not everyone here is part of some weird Apple collective consciousness.

Re:What about Apple?

[stewbacca]

I once wore my Macbook Air into a store...oh wait, I guess your definition of fashion is different than mine, because I couldn't find any clothes in the Apple store last time.

Re:What about Apple?

[diamondmagic]

This is correct, I of all people should know better. The point still stands, though: Electronics stores are not incapable of being unsuccessful.

Re:What about Apple?

[atriusofbricia]

I once wore my Macbook Air into a store...oh wait, I guess your definition of fashion is different than mine, because I couldn't find any clothes in the Apple store last time.

I had presumed, apparently erroneously, that I didn't have to explain the definition of the word fashion and the usage in context. Fashion isn't only clothes and referring to a store as fashionable or more about fashion than something else doesn't mean it sells clothes. It means it is a store devoted to a particular image or style.

Re:What about Apple?

[toddestan]

That's because Apple tightly controls the price that their products sell at. They don't have to worry about onlines stores undercutting the Apple retail stores because the online retailers either sell the products at the price Apple dictates or they get cut off.

I'll also point out that the NYC Apple Store doesn't seem to be made of brick and mortar either.

blatant disregard for quality customer service

[Jerry]

That's putting it politely.

Warranties, anyone?

[liquidhokie]

None of Amazon, Newegg, Ebay, or even [gasp] Tiger Direct has ever annoyed the @#$%^ out of me for a useless warranty.

Re:Warranties, anyone?

[Oswald McWeany]

I won't do Tiger Direct anymore because they asked for my SSN. WHY?1?! Why on earth does Tiger Direct need my SSN?

I'm just Amazon or NewEgg now.

Tech Stores Long Gone

[sk999]

Let us not forget that mail-order catalogs were yesterday's equivalent of today's Amazon and Newegg, and competition between them and brick and mortar stores is nothing new.

I used to be on the mailing list for both Allied Radio and Lafayette - bought stuff from both. Lafayette even had it's store in Newark, NJ. All long gone. Allied Radio was merged into Radio Shack. (Allied Electronics - the industrial supply side of the business - apparently still exists.)

Heath (remember Heathkits?) had a store in California. Gone.

Tons of independent shops selling stereo gear, TVs. My favorite independent shop was called "Parts Unlimited" - nothing but caps, resistors, vacuum tubes, wire, solder, connectors, coax cable, hardware, etc. All gone.

I must question the veracity of the article.

[www.sorehands.com]

How can you believe anything that says:

Best Buy and other traditional retailers complain that Amazon can undercut them in prices because the site doesnâ(TM)t charge sales tax, and that Amazon customers use Best Buy as their showroom, taking advantage of the extensive, well-stocked locations and knowledgeable staff to research products they actually buy from someone else online.

The only knowledge that I have seen at a Bestbuy is how to annoy and defraud customers. I can't tell you how many times I, was or heard their sales people, pushing Monster DVI or HDMI cables.

Re:I must question the veracity of the article.

[nobaloney]

That doesn't affect the veracity of the article. If Best Buy and other transactional retailers complain about it, but it's not true, the article is still accurate.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Very much this.

[symbolset]

The helpful staff and their urgency to sell those stupid warranties are the main things that keep me away from Best Buy unless I really have to have something today. The last time was when I was looking for the Tranformer TF101 on launch day. I knew if I didn't find it I was going to have to wait a long time. The sales guy wanted to chat me up on the tablets - and flat lied to me about the capabilities of the HP Touchpad, trying to push that product. Anyway they did have the Acer Iconia tab, and I nearly bought that instead - but being lied to really ticked me off and I drove 40 miles to Fry's instead and found the Transformer in stock.

hmm

[buddyglass]

I'd like to see a chart of the revenue growth of "brick and mortar" Apple stores over the last 10 years. Fry's also seems to be doing alright, and like Best Buy they also have questionable customer service.

Re:But where can I look at a TV before I buy?

[greg1104]

TVs are one of the worst things you can purchase based on how it looks in the store. Display models are intentionally miscalibrated to be distorted in a way that's eye catching. Standard procedure if you want a TV that looks like the media it plays intended is adjust them to fix the worst problems. High brightness sells, but it makes everything look bright--even things that are supposed to be black.

Good riddance

[neglogic]

I say good riddance to Best Buy. They are all actively offensive, blaring loud music as you walk in. They did have the best price on Wiimotes lately, so I bought them there. Needless to say, I spent the least amount of time in the store as possible.

web vs. intranet site

[wjcofkc]

Let's not forgot that this is the same place where if you go in citing a price on their website they will pull up an intranet site that is a clone of bestbuy.com with different prices to "prove" you wrong. Getting busted for that was the end of me shopping there.

Re:web vs. intranet site

[ajlisows]

Wow, that has not been my experience at all. I've never had a problem walking into a Best Buy and getting the "Online Price" at the store. Once they told me they couldn't do that and I asked if I could use a computer of theirs to order online and do a "Site to Store" or whatever they call it. That was about the hardest I ever had to push.

Actually, the Best Buy that I go to most often usually has a pretty competent sales staff.

I still to work for best buy

[Anonymous Coward]

Spending a few hours reading user reviews on amazon or newegg, and being able to google unfamiliar terms, is more valuable than the most tech savy and personable sales rep. And because most sales reps are subpar, internet shopping wins by a landslide.

Except for the fact that 90%+ of the people who shop at Best Buy havent a clue on how to Google anything, otherwise why the hell are they paying $34.99 for a usb printer cable they can buy elsewhere locally for $4.99? (figures in Canadian $ from my Calgary Best Buy & Memory Express).

And we sell a lot of fscking printer cables at my Best Buy... it makes no sense, you can't explain that... except to accept that the vast majority of people are too ignorant to use Google pro-actively for their own education and self-interest. You cannot expect these average Best Buy buying mouth-breathers to display rationality or intelligence. They are the herd, they are easily lead, but also easily spooked. They fear things they do not understand, but lack the evolved intelligence to actively pursue education to improve their own lot. They are comfortable in their ignorant world, and when you work at Best Buy your job is to milk them with high-margin cables if they're too stupid not to know any better. Should you feel bad about this? Only your own conscience can inform...

Re:I still to work for best buy

[lexman098]

wtf is a printer cable?

Re:I still to work for best buy

[Jeremi]

And we sell a lot of [$34.99] fscking printer cables at my Best Buy... it makes no sense, you can't explain that...

Okay, Mr. O'Reilly, I'll give it a shot. Here's the cost breakdown:

$4.99 for the hardware
$30.00 for having someone (allegedly) knowledgable to bring it back to and ask for help when you can't figure out how to make it work.

Still a pretty bad deal IMO, but nobody ever said ignorance was cheap...

Re:I still to work for best buy

[metalgamer84]

USB or parallel cable. Printers do still plug into computers you realize?

Re:I still to work for best buy

[toddestan]

I'm confused too. Unless anything has changed, it's a standard USB A-B cable for anything you would get at Best Buy. I would figure that Best Buy's market for $35 bog-standard USB cables would have dried up by now as everyone would have a spare or two. But I guess not.

Best Buy? You mean....

[i_want_you_to_throw_]

"Amazon showroom" ?

Re:Best Buy? You mean....

[clay_shooter]

Yup, internet retailers should pay referral fees to the storefronts. People go open the packages and fondle the products in the brick and mortar and then save a couple bucks buying on line. Better staff means a better educated consumer means they can better buy online.

Same day delivery from Amazon

[michaelmalak]

Even the Internet is starting same day delivery .

Re:Same day delivery from Amazon

[petermgreen]

In terms of total hours it doesn't really seem much quicker than the more expensive "next day" services. It's just rather than "order in the early evening receive in the morning" it's "order in the early morning receive in the evening". I'm sure there are occasional situations where that is handy but it's still considerablly slower than driving to a nearby retailer. Heck it's considerablly slower than catching the bus to a nearby retailer.

When the shit hits the fan the difference between having something in an hour or so and having it in 10 hours or so is likely to be pretty significant. When the shit hasn't hit the fan a couple of days is usually fine.

Re:Same day delivery from Amazon

[ShakaUVM]

Still not fast enough if you've run out of paper or ink.

But otherwise, yeah, Best Buy is a store I actively avoid. Most anti-customer store I've ever visited.

I miss the Fry's I used to live next to.

This SHOULD NOT BE NEWS

[manual_tranny]

I guess I am one of the only ones that noticed the way Best Buy did business more than 15 years ago? As a child I remember them charging an exorbitant fee for diagnosing and repairing a radio, only to have replaced the batteries. Best Buy has always been a racket. In the early 00's, Monster Cables were apparently made out of Pixie dust and Myrrh, from the way their employees talked them up. The poor employees. They are hassled and forced to mess with customers, but they get no commission for being pushy salesman. Best Buy has an opportunity now to prevent failure. If they don't change, you can bet that someone is making money on their failure.

Re:This SHOULD NOT BE NEWS

[pickin_grinnin]

I refused to shop there right from the beginning, long ago. I don't shop at stores that have "restocking fees."

Why Fry's will stay in business

[jasomill]

Unlike Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc.: they have a decent inventory of stuff, and don't presume to be helpful. In other words, they cater to people who would buy online, if "online" were a fifteen minute drive. For those of us who generally know what we're looking for before going to the store, this is a godsend.

Note that this market isn't merely "techies": who wants "help" buying a particular movie or video game? Apple's iPhone 4 dock? A toaster? An electric razor? In the last two cases, I didn't know exactly what I wanted, but it's not as if Best Buy has helpful "toaster experts" on-site. And even if they did, they'd be "experts" in upselling unnecessarily fancy toasters with "performance guarantees."

(full disclosure: I ended up choosing an unnecessarily fancy toaster anyhow. I'm not at all sure why I'd ever need two simultaneous "temperature zones", but it looks nice, it's easy to clean, and it's outlasted the sum total of my previous three "cheapo" toasters, so I'm not complaining)

Re:Why Fry's will stay in business

[Animats]

Unlike Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc.: they have a decent inventory of stuff, and don't presume to be helpful. In other words, they cater to people who would buy online, if "online" were a fifteen minute drive. For those of us who generally know what we're looking for before going to the store, this is a godsend.

Actually, no. The Palo Alto Frys store cut their parts inventory space in half last year. Also, a big fraction of their inventory bears stickers indicating it's a return. Since this is Silicon Valley, if something was returned, it's probably because it was defective, not that the customer couldn't figure it out. I haven't bought anything there in years.

Costco has better prices on appliances and consumer electronics. We still have Central Computer, a good place to buy computers, with knowledgeable people, good prices, and no extra charge for a "no crapware" install.

Re:Why Fry's will stay in business

[krinderlin]

Also, the few times that I've actually engaged the sales people at Fry's, they were fairly competent. I could easily say, "My partner needs a good Quad Core desktop, 64-bit Windows 7, and at least 4 gigabytes of RAM. Integrated graphics are fine as long as there's a PCIex16 slot and the power supply is a standard ATX."

15 minutes later we walked out with a full desktop/monitor combo with a free Fry's 2 Year extended warranty for less than $500. Yay?

Re:Why Fry's will stay in business

[stewbacca]

Best Buy doesn't have expert anything. That's why I dislike them, because when I do have a question, I would like the person giving the answer to be faster and more reliable than a quick internet search result would yield.

Simple question -- can this Playstation 3 model run Playstation 2 games? I never did get a correct answer on that one.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[Anonymous Coward]

For a hard time buying: try CircuitCity 2 full years before they went out of business, on multiple occasions there were ZERO cashiers and we have product in hand and wallet out, and the customer service people right next to the checkouts are ignoring us even when asking for a cashier.

Happened 3-4 times.

Best Buy is not dying! The article is WRONG!

[David_Hart]

The theory presented is that Best Buy is dying due to lower than normal sales and lower margins. This is presumed to be caused by poor customer service based on personal experience with the writer's local Best Buy store and some inventory issues for items that NO retailer had in stock during the Christmas season.

The truth is actually more boring. Best Buy sales are down because the economy has been in the toilet. Best Buy margins are down because margins are down for all electronics. In addition, the mad rush to 3D that electronics manufacturers were hoping for never happened. Very little of this has to do with customer service.

Personally, I have never had a problem with my local Best Buy. I've been able to return items without question and they have been very helpful when I am looking for a particular item. Anyone who knows me knows that I am a big proponent of Amazon. But there are many people like me who just don't feel comfortable buying appliances and expensive TVs over the Internet.

Re:Best Buy is not dying! The article is WRONG!

[Jawnn]

Personally, I have never had a problem with my local Best Buy.

Sure, Astroturf Boy. Whatever you say. My experience at Best Buy, every single fucking time I've been in one, is exactly the same as everyone else here who points out their lousy merchandising, ignorant sales people, and deplorable customer service. Probably well after I should have, I stopped patronizing Best Buy. It's abundantly clear that others have had the same experience and have made similar decisions. In a good economy, that wave might hurt, but it wouldn't be fatal. In this economy, where the pool of... let's call them "less demanding" shoppers is sharply smaller, the loss of the tech-savvy demographic because of gross mismanagement is inexcusable, and probably fatal. Stockholders should be pissed.

Re:Best Buy is not dying! The article is WRONG!

[art123]

I would have to agree. In my area, there are 3 Best Buys for the 2 county region of about 700,000 people. They are usually busy. They are well organized. One has a nice musical instrument section and a higher-end home theater section (Magnolia).

I've purchased washer, dryer, laptop, and xbox 360 from them in the last few years. No problems.

The most annoying thing they did was to push their Geek Squad services on the laptop (install anti-virus and remove crapware). I had to say about 5 times "no thanks".

I will never buy appliance or large tv mail-order due to hassles of returning item.

Re:Best Buy is not dying! The article is WRONG!

[David_Hart]

Sure, Techno Whiz, Whatever you say... It's not like some retail outlets can be better than others depending on staff, management, etc. Obviously with your keen assessment, you are right and I am wrong....

I never rely on Best Buy for advice, support, or knowledge because I do my research before going to the store. I only rely on Best Buy for two things, to make a purchase and to be able to return said purchase if I have a problem with it. I have never had an issues with either of these processes at my local Best Buy. Your experience is obviously a tad different.

My thought is that the average Slashdot reader, who are less than 1% of the population, would have a major problem with Best Buy if they tried to rely on them for purchase decisions. The reason is that, as geeks, we are very picky about our technology decisions. We will notice if the color gamut is off by more than 5%. Most people don't even know the meaning of color gamut and couldn't care less.

Re:I never understood how they stayed in business.

[TrekkieGod]

Priced a product online with Google, and it told me that Best Buy had it for a great price. I went there, and found that they had just raised their price by nearly a hundred bucks.

The thing about Best Buy is that the price their advertise online is always lower than the price at the store. I learned this a while back, and as a result I always buy at their online store and choose "pick up at the store."

Usually I'll just avoid them completely, but if they do have a competitive price, or if I can't wait for the shipping from Amazon or Newegg, then at least I save myself the annoyance of going over there expecting a price only to see it 50% more expensive than the price advertised online.

Circuit City had the same problem. Years ago I needed a wireless keyboard, and they had a pretty good deal advertised online. I showed up, saw their in-store price was significantly higher. I figured, "hey, I'll just price-match it at the register," only to have the cashier tell me that they couldn't price-match online offerings, even if they were their own. So I walked to the side to make sure I wasn't blocking anyone else in line, pulled out my PDA and logged on to their website using their public wifi right in front of her (blast from the past, huh? It was before the smartphones took over), ordered the keyboard with pick it up at the store, showed her the confirmation number and asked, "can I pick it up now?"

at least they know what we are looking for

[lister king of smeg]

reminds of something that happened a few months ago to me. i bought a new two terabyte external hard drive for school so i could move my virtual machines with me between computers (several computer labs, my home computer, and my laptop), i spent a the bit extra that for one with eSATA so it could transfer the files i needed at a reasonable rate. I bought it online because no one in town carried one with eSATA drives at the size i needed for a reasonable price. when it arrived from newegg it did not have the eSATA cable with it. so off to the stor to buy it i went. at staples the sales associate said they didn't carry them so to try radio shack and walmart,(the only other stores in town that would conceivably carry them), but the did have Martha Stewart brand home and office stationary. staples didn't carry them only SATA. i was told to try walmart and staples but that they would probably not have them so try Amazon newegg or radio-shack.com, i tried walmart grudgingly and the sales associate told me they did not carry cables for inside computers... i explained to the sales associate that that the e in eSATA was for external and still didn't know where to look. so i hunted and they didn't have any. i bemoan the loss of real electronic stores

Potential to be great...

[Darkness404]

Brick and Mortar tech stores have the possibility of being great. I for one much prefer shopping in physical stores for any sort of medium to major purchase. For example, some laptops have very comfortable keyboards, others... not so much. Similarly some displays look very good while others... not so much even though they have the same "specs" if you look online.

The problem is the service which could be their number 1 selling point is terrible. They sell you things you don't need and leave out the things you do need.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

So true

[koan]

I buy almost everything online now, can't stand going into stores or malls they are depressing.

Profits steady?

[__aaltlg1547]

How can they be going out of business with profits that have remained steady in the just-over-$1B for the last 3 years and sales steady at $50B/year.

The profit margin is low, but what do you expect? They're a retailer.

tech stores might survive

[ILongForDarkness]

A lot of people don't understand or are afraid of tech. Box stores give the illusion that they'll have someone to hold your hand and tell you want you need to get that home theater going. Online shopping only works for people when they are reasonably sure what they are looking for. This is why book stores are going the way of the dodo, people know the authors they like and can get the identical item online. For a computer you might have to stare for 10 minutes trying to figure out why two slightly different models are $200 difference in price. But you still don't get the goofy kid saying "oh that is a great computer it will plug right into your TV". For a lot of people not knowing and not even knowing how to properly search for the info online means they want a store.

These people will get rarer with time but I think we have 20 or so years before we've gotten rid of the generation that hasn't grown up with computers.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[Anonymous Coward]

Exact same thing happened to me at Circuit City. I just dumped all my products on the counter and walked out of the store empty-handed.

That finally got their attention ("Sir! Sir! Come back!")...but screw 'em. That former Circuit City is now a furniture store.

Small tech stores seem to be surviving

[Karmashock]

Los Angeles is full of them. They don't have big signs out front but they're all over the place. Tiny places packed with stuff haphazardly all over. They're really sort of bizarre outlets. I go to them when I need a "widget"... they always have it. They know what I mean the first time. And the prices while not competitive with online retailers are no more expensive then the big box stores.

I have no idea how they stay in business... they just do. They don't sell games. They don't sell TVs. They don't sell anything but computer junk. I think their primary business is IT service or something. But they've got lots of computer stuff and they're very happy to sell it.

So if and when bestbuy implodes and I need a widget faster then the online retailers can get it to me... I'm covered.

Haven't shopped there in months

[sandytaru]

Not when I discovered that the same HDMI cable they wanted $40 could be had online for $5. Last time I tried to check their website for cheap stuff I could pick up today (specifically, a wireless dongle), the only stuff they had in price range was not kept in stores, and could not even be delivered to the stores - you had to pay $5 for shipping for a one ounce part, even though for the more expensive items they offered "ship to store" pickup for no charge at all. After a frustrating fifteen minutes I said screw it and ordered a similar from Amazon, who got it to me in two days for 99 cents.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[Anonymous Coward]

As a former employee at Best Buy, I can tell you exactly why they make it difficult to buy that stuff. The three big times in the year are Chirstmas, tax time, and back to school. The seasons around each of these events takes up around 70% of the year. In that part of the year, there is only a finite number of an item available at the store you are at any given time. Best Buy will sell out of the hot laptop that everyone wants. Frankly they don't want you buying it if you don't buy the additional warranty or accessories or whatever. If you don't buy it, someone else will. I'm convinced that corporate would just rather have you shop somewhere else. They get shipments twice a week, but there is a million different variations that the public demands so it's hard to keep all of the stock flowing to the exact right places, so it's easier to make it a difficult experience for the grab and go customer who just want to buy four of the laptop with a $5 markup and leave none for customers who might potentially want to buy other items to go with it. Contrast this with Amazon, where they can ship your item from anywhere and it makes little difference to the customer. Best Buy has a pretty decent store transfer and warehouse ordering system, but customers often refuse to wait as they have waited until the last second to buy a gift and only budgeted for the laptop that has been on sale the last six days.

more of the same

[kermidge]

Okay, I just read most of the posts. There is much truth therein.

Out of my own ignorance and un-brightness I post a few thoughts.

Apart from general overhead (rent/lease/taxes, wages, utilities, whathaveyou) the single largest hassle as I see it is in inventory. This has always been a large factor in, for instance, hardware stores. With electronics all the problems of inventory are magnified - everything stocked is automatically obsolete before it even reaches the shelves, for starters. Don't even bring up things such as support, drivers, etc.

That's bad enough for old-fashioned business models. Complicating factors such as lack of awareness and understanding on the part of customers and staff only exacerbate the situation. Emphasizing 'bottom-line Friday' and 'get the sale' as distinct from establishing customer relations and developing accounts helps clinch the fail.

The owners and smart stockholders will always make out like bandits, especially if they've paid the slightest attention to the standard CYA aspects of law and tax law no matter what happens to the brick and mortar realities. The CEOs and such will do quite fine even if they technically "lose" some money due to bankruptcy/failure of the businesses they're 'in charge of.'

The only people hurt will be everyone else. [paragraph unwritten because it's obvious/transparent/redundant]

In the meantime, everyone who shows up to work has bills to pay - they all have need of income: their livelihood, and lives, depend upon it. Yet, as I've been saying for thirty years and more: if you show up for work and do not understand, janitor to CEO, that the only reason you have a job and the only reason there is a business is because you have customers. and act accordingly, you might as well turn around and go find something useful to do or kill yourself and remove a burden from the species.

One way or another, whether it be pumping septic tanks or working out of my real estate office, I spent half my working life in sales. While I was happy to have happy customers, to this day I prefer, and strove for, _satisfied_ customers; that is, people who knew I stood behind what I did or that the company for whom I worked did so. Everything else, IMHFO, is dross. YMMV.

That Best Buy is going down the tubes is simply a matter of time. Whether owners, management, and staff change their world view or no, perhaps it's just a matter of watching another species of dinosaur die. I'm young enough to be sad and old enough to simply try to make it through the next day. When the local hardware store and bookstore close, then, apart from the congenial tavern, should I be able to afford them, it'll be all she wrote apart from what's available to me on the 'Net.

Brave new world, indeed. Cheers.

you know what really grinds my gears?

[metalmaster]

Managers worried about numbers and goals over customer service....

I work as a mobile consultant for an office supply store that recently started in wireless sales. They sell electronics stuff including computers and tablets. Anyways, when im not selling phones i'll help customers with electronics and other things that i know about.

Just last week a customer comes in with a sales ad, and shows me the exact laptop they want. They dont need a sales spiel they just wanna buy. I go to a keyholder/manager to get the laptop and i get a "stern talking to" about how their tech associates have to reach goals on computer sales and warranty sales. The manager told me to send the customer to a tech associate(who has a queue of 5 or so customers because he cant multitask.)

I sure as hell dont care about their numbers and i know that the customer wasnt really willing to wait for a tech associate when i'm available to help right now. I went to someone else to get the laptop and ended up selling the customer on a 3 year warranty. Some managers can be so thick-headed

Re:I never understood how they stayed in business.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bestbuy had a good used game sale recently. Buy 2 get 1 or something like that. I saw the information online and started shopping on their online store.

I get to checkout and 80% of the items I was remotely interested in can't ship. In store pickup only.

Sure, I'll get some games. Except that for any given store, I could have 2 non-overlapping weeks for a pickup window. That means I have to drive there 2-3 times to get all my purchased items. The other thing that happened was that the items weren't even available for in-store pickup AT THE SAME STORE. If you're going to take a week to make it available in store, can't you combine all my items and let me pick it up in 1 handy location?

Borders?

[Zibodiz]

I know this is beside the point, but since when was Borders a 'tech store'?

Re:Borders?

[kelemvor4]

I know this is beside the point, but since when was Borders a 'tech store'?

Book lights, friend! Didn't they have some kind of e-reader, too?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

You know your'e poor

[rossdee]

80 grand per year works out to about $38.46 per hour (assuming a 40 hour week)

I only make $12 per hour. Of course I only subscribe to one of the above magazines (and I haven't told them how much I make)

Re:You know your'e poor

[skine]

That's hilarious.

You think people work 40 hours per week.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[J-1000]

...so it's easier to make it a difficult experience for the grab and go customer who just want to buy four of the laptop with a $5 markup and leave none for customers who might potentially want to buy other items to go with it.

That seems to be a common thread among failing businesses: They all have well-reasoned excuses to intentionally inconvenience their customers.

Outsourced sales

[shuz]

This all makes me wonder what would happen if Best Buy were to outsource their sales division to Accenture in addition to their IT. Best Buy is suppose to specialize in technical sales. If their customer service is as bad as everyone says, (I tend to not shop their and when I do I don't ask questions) then I wonder what they consider themselves experts at? Maybe they should outsource their sales and customer service instead of their IT?

They should re-group as Maker Shack

[SuperKendall]

Imagine how awesome Radio Shack could be if they started supporting local efforts of Makers to build things. Why is Radio Shack not offering modern electronics courses, along with rentals of some gear too hard to afford yourself?

They could really transform themselves into something powerful with a small twist.

Re:They should re-group as Maker Shack

[n1ywb]

Imagine how awesome Radio Shack could be if they started supporting local efforts of Makers to build things. Why is Radio Shack not offering modern electronics courses, along with rentals of some gear too hard to afford yourself?

They could really transform themselves into something powerful with a small twist.

Tru dat!

Observing that for a long time now (in germany)

[drolli]

The main Problem is that analog electronic, discrete, and logic components get replaced by MCUs. Where you would have used a Threshold comparator, and analog trigger, a voltage regulator, and a flipflop before to make a simple resettable alarm, no you buy an ATtiny (and you can even skip the voltage regulator, if you buy the right one). The margin for sellign it is probably the same, and there is a certain minimum size of a shop to make in reasonable to have a full range of the MCU variants in stock. So Electronics shops started to put in low cost tech articles in their shops, which is something you can only compete if you are big enough, which most of them are not. I am not sure if a path of spezialization would have saved more of the shops, but i guess not. when buying electronic components for my work i am obviously using the internet.

The glass half ... smashed

[Tim4444]

Please tell me Geek Squad goes down with it.

because profit margin is too low?

[fantomas]

"Why is Radio Shack not offering modern electronics courses, along with rentals of some gear too hard to afford yourself?" - because the profit margin is too low? Maybe the expensive stuff takes too long to repay if it's hired out, breakage rate, etc.?

Re:because profit margin is too low?

[SuperKendall]

Radio Shack.....profit margin is too low

HA HA HA HO HE HA HO HE HA

Seriously though, the idea is with people taking classes they buy materials from you, obviously not the cheapest but that's what pays for you to be there.

This works quite well for other businesses. My wife goes to a local quilting shop which offers various classes. People learn how to do something new, and generally buy materials at the store.

There's also a large scrapbooking store called "Archivers" which does something similar to what I've described, classes and they let you rent/use otherwise expensive equipment.

It's also basic marketing, to get people to buy from your store you first have to get them in the store!!!

Every time

[DarkOx]

management too concerned with store sales instead of margins and blatant disregard for quality customer service."

every time I see one of these stories about a business that might be struggling someone writes something similar to the above. Margin and same store sales are pretty important to retail. If management just ignored what has worked for decades because some guy on the web thinks they ougt to, do really think they'd be more successful? I don't what the secret to retailing in the new econiony is but ignoring margin is not it, remember the .comedy? They ignored margin, how did that work out?

Re:Every time

[fuzznutz]

You miss the point. By ignoring customer service, they are insuring customers will shop where customer service is better taking those sales with them. For Best Buy it is arguably Amazon. Best Buy instead obsesses over the sales numbers and squeezing the customer for that extra dollar all the while it circles the drain. As I told a friend recently regarding this issue: When your own customers hate your guts, don't expect to stay in business for long...

ALL specialty stores are in trouble

[msobkow]

From what I've seen over the past decade, ALL specialty stores are in trouble. The ones who are succeeding are stores that offer products to a variety of consumer interests.

Book stores? Shutting down
Electronics? Shutting down
Stereos and TV? Shutting down
Computers? Shutting down

Diversity in business is the key to survival. Use your brand recognition to bring in the customers, but expand beyond your initial purview or you reach a market cap and die.

Re:What Brick-and-mortar store can hope to compete

[TaoPhoenix]

Maybe I'm off track here.

But maybe part of the flaw is using "boutique like locationing". Upscale mall branches, etc.

Most hobbyists wanting parts are men, right? Aren't we supposed to just want our parts and not overly care about the pretty cell phones?

Why not do the BJ's / Sam's Club approach to parts? Make it a little out of the way, and stock all the basics. Then if a real expert comes and stumps you, get really good at being a location for ordering parts.

Warranty

[Lando]

Best Buy should buy the extended warranty against business failure. Sure it will take a couple of months after they fail to get reimbursed but they will be back in business again as long as they don't lose the warranty and they dress well when filing their claim.

Crap stores, good riddance.

[O('_')O_Bush]

All of those stores were way overpriced, and filled with clueless employees. Microcenter, pricing the same or better than Newegg, carrying equal or better stock, and having employees who know about their products, does more business than the large regional mall's Apple store.

Buy More

[Oswald McWeany]

It's sad- even "Buy More" got sold to Subway! :(

They're back......

[scharkalvin]

CompUSA is back, at least in name only. They were purchased by Tiger Direct, an "etaile" computer store with brick and mortar outlets. Tiger Direct knew how to work both sides of the street and wanted the CompUSA name for their brick and mortar outlets. Today they still have the Tiger Direct web address, but are mostly using CompUSA on line.

Circuit City is also back as an "etaile" outlet on the web. I don't know if there is any connection other than the name to the original.

WTF?

[rsilvergun]

why should some underpaid Cust Serv rep be responsible for the well being of practically every fortune 500 company? When a company succeeds, it's because of brilliant leadership (Apple), but when they fail, it's always the customer service reps responsibility / fault. WTF?

Maybe Barnes & Noble's leadership should have done something about declining reading rates in America, huh? The trend had been going on for decades. Maybe they should have lobbied for better education & schools to create the kind of people who WANT books. Look at Japan. Well educated populace that values reading (hell, good authors are celebrities over there, instead of just the ones that strike it rich like in the US). But nope, you're right. It's all the fault of the minimum wage gal/guy behind the counter with no stock options, no career options, and no raises. Not the multi-millionaire leadership.

Re:A massive mistake

[Nick Number]

Now how do we get Fries Electronics nation wide?

Persuade McDonalds to start including smartphones and mp3 players in their Happy Meals?

Also the death of *MOST* brick and mortar stores

[beforewisdom]

I think eventually companies like Amazon may spell the doom of most ( not all ) brick and mortar stores, tech or not. It is much more convenient to order exactly what you want while sitting in your chair and have it delivered to your door. Probably a lot more eco-friendly too as your goods will be "car pooling" with the delivery man. Picking something up in person either means taking a chunk of your time on a weeknight or a weekend, assuming the store has what you want. The only motivator, if you are not into shopping for its own sake, is the price of gas versus the price of shipping. As gas prices change, something like an "odometer by money" could tip the balance in favor of just buying what you want online. Even supermarkets like Giant have delivery services, so they aren't immune unless someone is a gourmand who wants to inspect their food before s/he buys it.

Microcenter

[assertation]

I feel fortunate to have a really good Microcenter on my way home from work. The trip is always worth the hassle as they always have what I need and have people who can help me find it fast.

Not so with the other tech stores and the service is so uncaring that I feel like I am in a fast food restaurant.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[TheSpoom]

Never go to Best Buy on Black Friday. They're well-known to be full of bait and switch offers. In fact, there's really no reason to go out on Black Friday at all. Just wake up at / stay up until 4 AM and do all your shopping online. No lines, no up-selling, and the products get shipped directly to your door, at the same crazy Black Friday prices. I prefer Walmart.com for this sort of thing; there's remarkably little BS with which to deal. So far have bought a ~$400 42" TV and a ~$130 surround sound / Blu-Ray system, both of which were surprisingly quality.

By the way, the reps argue with you about buying the "advertised" items in Best Buys primarily because they don't get commission / do get yelled at if those items are what are sold, rather than the designated, higher-priced snake oil switched items. And God help them if they sell something without a warranty...

Hassle-free?

[phorm]

You've just described several incidents where items ordered online arrived broken, incomplete, or not-at-all. How is that hassle-free?
You have to wait for the item, then go through the RMA process, return the item, and wait for refund/replacement.
Meanwhile, the merchant has your money, and you have no product.

This assumes the merchant is reliable too. Amazon may not be bad for returns, but ebay/paypal can be pretty awful for both buyers and sellers.
For pricing, I've noticed that a lot of online merchants have gotten into the habit of "sales" that are more than the regular price elsewhere. Amazon seems to be pretty bad for this with books, and Newegg was selling REFURBISHED iPad 2's around Xmas as something like $200-300 off... at a reduced price of $699, except that $699 was the REGULAR price of the things elsewhere new...

Re:Hassle-free?

[hairyfeet]

Uhhh...don't shop at scammer heaven, aka eBay? And I have NEVER had a single hassle from ANY of the big three, Tiger, Newegg, or Amazon and frankly i rarely even have to worry about return time since they will next day the replacement before mine ever gets in the mail and then will simply charge me if I don't get the old one back, since i'm sending it back anyway its not like I care about that. here let me give a better example:

I order a barebone kit for my dad, its a $199 quadcore deal. Somebody screws up and ships a 65w board with a 95w chip. I pop on the Tiger chat and they say "Opps, hang on a minute, let me get the board supplier on the phone just to make sure they didn't mislabel the board" and she pops back up in a second 'Nope, you're right that won't work, we'll rush you out a new board, just ship that one back in the box we send the new one in" and when it got there the next day they already had the RAM sitting in the bottom of the box, all I had to do was slap it on and waltz across the street to the UPS store, easy peasy. The board they sent BTW was a LOT nicer than the one that originally came but dad prefers ATI graphics chips so he just popped on and ordered an ATI board and handed it to me, so my GF is getting a new quad when she comes down I built around the new board. But I've NEVER had to wait longer than 3 days, most they next day at no extra charge. And the second the new board was at their warehouse they gave dad creedit for the return so that new Nvidia board cost $0.00 even though as I said it was a nicer board than the Zotac that originally came with the kit.

So the simple answer is "if its too good to be true, they're a scammer" and call it a day. i haven't touched ebay since they bought paypal and everyone i know that has has regretted it, chips with bent pins, HDDs that have click of doom, total scammers. And Amazon is frankly wonderful for books, my mom loves cheesy paperback horror, the Mercy Thompson series and anything by Patrica Briggs and friends, and i get them there at usually more than half off and even supersaver is usually 3 day turnaround and i'm in the middle of mudsuck AR. As I said the ONLY time I had a book not show up Amazon rushed out brand new copies (even though we had ordered used) and had them shipped next day, hassle free. as for your "RMA process" hitting print is hard for you? Because that is all I've ever done, pop on the chat, say i need an RMA and why, and they pop up the RMA and say "just print this and stick it on the box" and then they give me credit for the shipping on my account, which since i'm always needing another thumbstick or power supply or burner is just fine by me. So I honestly don't see how it could be any nicer, short of them sending $1000 hookers to hand me the items on a silver platter but my GF would probably object to that LOL.

Re:Hassle-free?

[dgatwood]

This assumes the merchant is reliable too. Amazon may not be bad for returns, but ebay/paypal can be pretty awful for both buyers and sellers.

Your first mistake was calling eBay a merchant. It is not. It is a global flea market.

You have to wait for the item, then go through the RMA process, return the item, and wait for refund/replacement.

Amazon cross-ships the replacement. This means that if the original product partially works, you can continue using it while you wait for the replacement, and even in the worst case, you'll get the replacement only a few days after you got the first one.

Re:Hassle-free?

[phorm]

Except in my case where they shipped me a product that wasn't what was listed... wherein I had to wait for a refund (and missed all the decent sales between shipping)

Re:Hassle-free?

[phorm]

Amazon: Good for books, bad for other stuff. As mentioned, I got E-series (low watt) "triple-core CPU" that was actually a duo. After returning it, and contacting them twice to fix the listing, it's still listed as triple-core. Others I know have had similar issues. Ended up getting a used E-series quad-core off ebay that worked out much nicer though.

Newegg: Usually good, but sometimes you should watch for deals that advertise huge discounts which actually just leave you at the same "regular" price as elsewhere (especially for refurbs)

Tigerdirect: Bought an LCD TV. Two months later got an extra charge on my card, apparently for the "recycle tax." Other places include the tax in the price, or show it on the invoice. Charging somebody's card for something that wasn't part of the invoice is against Visa regs (and laws in mahy places). Tiger tried to pull a fast to sneak that in and *would not* refund the charge until Visa backcharged them.

It seems that the rule is: Even decent merchants can be bad, so there appears to be none that's perfect. Be vigilant, watch your card, and double-check your purchase. Oh, and credit-cards + regulators can be your friends when it comes to dealing with a bad transaction.

Good riddance, Best Buy

[NikeHerc]

I call'em "Worst Buy" in part because they lied to me about a rebate on a washer and dryer I purchased from them. If memory serves, they got in trouble with the FTC over this practice.

I will never set foot in one of their stores, much less buy anything from them.

Browsing

[phorm]

Two reasons I've found
a) Looking at stuff that I plan to buy, probably elsewhere (but at least I get to see what it looks like first)
b) Immediacy: Buy it and use it, no waiting for the post
c) Floor models: I've bought a few floor-models of things, and those actually tend to come out well as one can see their condition/functionality before taking them home, and the price is reduced.

Also
d) A place to send relatives when I don't want to be their personal computer consultant/repair-person

Not exactly accurate.

[kelemvor4]

CompUSA never did close. The company was purchased by some other company and the stores (at least the one around here) remain open to this day under the CompUSA monicker. What did happen is they lowered their prices, started selling OEM/Grey box stuff so they now compete price wise with online shops like newegg.

http://www.compusa.com/retailstores/compusaStores/index.asp

Re:I never understood how they stayed in business.

[Megane]

I pointed out that their new, higher price was about thirty or forty dollars higher than Fry's, just two blocks away,

There was a Fry's two blocks away and you still went to Best Buy? I hope you've learned your lesson.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[xxdelxx]

Depends on the store I guess. We had a local Circuit City and I was consistently amazed that they had a few folks in there that knew what they were selling. A couple of them even survived the purge of the high priced employees. It was heartbreaking to see them during the closing down sale - still trying to do a decent job and apologising that there wouldn't be any returns on anything.

A statistical outlier of course - I could travel 20 miles and experience the standard CC crapfest which made it stand out even more.

I would agree that BB are to be avoided at all costs. Even Frys have better customer service.

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[Megane]

I remember their horrible store layout with a diamond-shaped center section in the middle blocking the view of half the store from the entrance. It felt like I was doing a dungeon crawl just to get to the back where they had their CDs, videos, and video games. They were opening new stores with a proper big-box layout a few years before they crashed, but at the end there were still stores with that original layout.

Weird Stuff Warehouse

[durdur]

I sometimes shop at a place in Sunnyvale called Weird Stuff Warehouse. They have great bins full of surplus and second-hand cards, connectors, keyboards, mice, power adapters, and components. Standard operating procedure is to buy at least two, preferably three, of everything and hope one of them works. But it's cheap enough you can afford to do that.

Re:Microcenter and Frys seem to do well

[ninjagin]

Agreed. I go to that same Microcenter store. The staff seems to be much better informed about what's on the shelves, they know where everything is, and the selection is great. In my mind, they beat Frys.

Re:don't. forget microcenter

[ninjagin]

Sometimes you get a bad salesperson, but the folks at microcenter are the best-informed and knowledgeable people about computer parts and tech stuff out of any brick & mortar store. Yes, they will try to sell you, but you're not forced to buy anything, and I've never really been pressured on anything I've been shopping for. They also know the store very well, and can save you time hunting around for stuff. You can use salespeople to your advantage, you know. What do you care if they sticker your stuff, anyway? It doesn't raise the price, and they get credit for being helpful. On the flip side, salespeople who want to get credit for a sale they had no part in are being unethical and it's okay to report that to management.

Someone who gets it!!!!!

[fuzznutz]

I realize my anecdote is fast food, but...

Our local Burger King decided to remove their kids play area and replace it with a couple video game machines to cut insurance costs and make a little coin in its place. The result was all the stay at home moms found somewhere else to take their kids for lunch. Business drops and they remove the games leaving a totally empty play room taking up retail space. To cut costs, management hides the condiments under the order counter, followed by the napkins. Now you have to beg for ketchup. That's when I quit eating there.

Contrast that to the Chick-Fil-A across the street. They have a playground and all the moms that used to go to Burger King are now there. At lunch they have three people working outside helping the drive-thru. The line usually wraps all the way around the building, but I have never waited more than 4 or 5 minutes. On rainy days, they have an employee walking out to cars handing customers umbrellas to get in and out of the doors. The place is ALWAYS packed, but I never have trouble finding a seat and never wait more than a couple minutes to order. When someone leaves, their table is cleaned within a minute. The employees are friendly, helpful and polite. I costs me about 20% more than Burger King.

Guess where I take my kids...

it's the reviews stupid..

[schlachter]

For me, it's not the price difference per se, often the price can be reasonably competitive.

It's the social aspect of shopping online that seals the deal. I don't feel comfortable buying anything these days without seeing a rich set of reviews on the item, seeing where it falls within a bestseller list (i.e. Amazon), when it was released to the market, and comparison prices so that I know I'm not getting taken on price.

Re:it's the reviews stupid..

[kaatochacha]

Did you really just say that it's the "social aspect" of sitting in front of a computer by yourself and ordering things that seals the deal?

Re:Black Friday 2011: The Nightmare

[fuzznutz]

That's a big trend right now. Fire your customer if they represent too small of a revenue / margin stream for you. It is even used as a business strategy to get competitors to lose margin and profitability. Lucky for Best Buy's customers, Amazon, NewEgg, and Wal*Mart don't mind.

Sounds to me like it isn't working out too well for Best Buy. They just want to bitch about Amazon taking the customers which they don't apparently want.

What if....

[stewbacca]

What if this was the decline/death of impersonal giant chain stores, and nothing to do with brick-and-mortar business models?

Hopefully chain restaurants will follow...

Re:Also the death of *MOST* brick and mortar store

[woodycat]

On the surface it appears to be the case but I think it could swing back the other way. Bricks and mortar shopping is an experience which people enjoy. What are we to look forward to? Living in isolation where everything simply arrives at our door is not a very appealing thought. The "village" atmosphere has appeal even if they are now shopping centres.

no no. hedge fund guys PREY on forbes readers

[decora]

see... the 'average reader' is going to do the 'average thing', which is think that they have some insight because they read Forbes, and get in on some bandwagon trend thing. they pour their money into some account like Schwab or Scottrade. i think the gambling analogy fits here too.

now, the hedge funder watches the pumping and dumping action going on in the pages of forbes (and WSJ and etc), and tries to tell which way the 'market pscyhology' is headed. by predicting this they can get in on the various pump and dump deals. take the Dot Com bubble. the 'buzz' around it sends the masses to put their money into it, in hopes they too can get rich by riding the up and down of the market.

a good example of how hedge funds interact with the media to get rich off of bad investors is probably that screaming guy on the financial network. Jim Cramer. there is a great book about him - "Trading with the Enemy" by some kid who managed to get a job inside Cramer's fund because his dad knew a guy who knew a guy who... anyways. The 'news' is not to give out information, its also to help manipulate public opinion for the purpose of improving predictability for certain deals that certain people are working on.

Re-write of BB press release is the best

[Anonymous Coward]

Best Buy's version:

  “Due to overwhelming demand of hot product offerings on BestBuy.com during the November and December time period, we have encountered a situation that has affected redemption of some of our customers’ online orders. We are very sorry for the inconvenience this has caused, and we have notified the affected customers."

The accurate version:

"Due to poor inventory management and sales forecasting of the most popular products during our key sales season, we can’t fill orders we promised to fill weeks ago in time for Christmas. Three days before Christmas, too late for the customers to make alternative arrangements, we are just now letting our would-be customers know. We have no excuse for such amateur behavior."

This is SO true. This is why retail electronics stores problems are 100% self-inflict and these ass-clowns DESERVE to go out of business!!

Won't happen...

[DiEx-15]

..but it is nice to dream.

The problem with your guidelines is that companies like Best Buy prey on the one thing most /.ers here fail to comprehend: Technological Illiteracy. Best Buy isn't interested in selling the top of the line products or having exclusive things. All they want is to take advantage of people that are upgrading their Pre-2000 computer for a new POS9001 with the extended warranty... Which will be needed because the POS9004 will be out next month and the 9001 model will break down a week into using it. So they do what they do in order to make a fast sale to people who have no idea what they are getting into as far as quality or don't realize that 90+% of computer problems can be solved with a Google search. (or no Windows on the PC to begin with for those Apple/Linux zealots here). This also holds true to Radio Shack and any other big box store like Wal Mart.

A great example is how Best Buy was hoping people would be dumb enough to spend over a thousand dollars for a HDMI cable. If you knew absolute shit about electronics or were not a /.er, you may fall for their trap because of how they hype it up and make it sound like you will get better quality picture/sound. Another example, and why Circuit City failed, is how Circuit City tried to charge people ~$30 to get backwards compatibility on their new XBox 360. (Yes it is a YTMND, but the advertisement is 100% legit)

While what you are saying is true, it would be very difficult for Best Buy to do this. To them: It is more cost effective to have some kid in HS to work on a PC for $60/hr or an extra $30 at point of sale than to hire a professional who may want more than minimum wage to work on junk... To which, the pro may not in good conscience sell.

yep

[Mariomario]

There is only a few reasons for big chain stores to go under. 1. Bad customer service. I work at a staples in the growing state of ND. We get a lot of customers who went to best buy or office max (only other 2 major electronic chains in the city, but got smaller stores like The Computer Store, and CompUtech) and then came to Staples. 2. Can't adapt to change. If Radio Shack did not change what they carried (whether you like it or not) is the reason they are still open. If a store can't do that, customers and those jobs move somewhere else and make money for other people.