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Camera Gun Would Let Hunters Get Killer Wildlife Shots
Zothecula writes "Not too long ago, brothers Randy and Michael Gregg were out on a hunting expedition. It was the day after deer season had ended, yet they spied a handsome animal bedded down in the snow. Not wanting to pass up an opportunity, they silently crept up on their quarry, raised their rifle, lined the deer up in the crosshairs ... and then took a picture through the scope with a mobile phone. That photo provided all the proof they needed that they had successfully stalked their prey, without bringing home an illegally-obtained carcass. It also inspired them to create the Kill Shot — a replica hunting rifle, that takes pictures instead of firing bullets." The Kill Shot isn't just for hunters. Think of how great this would be at sporting events or family reunions!
It's too bad they didn't have these in 1963. It would have been nice to have a close-up of Kennedy's awesome hair.
Trolling is a art,
I think a replica rifle is liable to cause some consternation at your average sporting event.
Microsoft leads to Bluescreen; Bluescreen leads to downtime; downtime leads to suffering.
What could possibly go wrong?
People have been making DIY versions of cameras mounted on rifle stocks for decades. I had an 8th grade teacher that gave up bullets in favor of film.
Slashvertisement.
Are these allowed in stripper bars?
Police will be called out to those events because "there's someone with a gun!" Family reunion becomes a family bloodbath.
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
My aunt and uncle are avid bird watchers in Canada. My uncle built up a spotting scope on a rifle stock that he uses up there all the time. He brought it down here to SoCal and was out at the edge of a lagoon looking at shore birds when all of a sudden a number of police cars showed up, lights flashing, and the officers jumped out and drew their service pistols. Seems a number of folks had reported a lunatic (I'm not dismissing that assessment) with a gun out in the lagoon. Luckily they didn't shoot my uncle, but instead had a bit of a chuckle about the whole thing with the ultimate suggestion that his selection of bird watching paraphernalia could be better ;-) Relatives!
Given the current political climate, this is a good idea gone incredibly wrong. If you come too close to law enforcement with something resembling a rifle, be prepared to be in a very sticky situation. These days even "toy" guns can get you in a ton of trouble. Cops' trigger fingers seem even itchier than ever.
That's pretty neat, really.
http://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/sniper/index.htm
Hooray for the russians!!
The Photo Sniper was initially made for the Russian market. The text on the camera body, on the pistol grip and on the container was in Russian. ÐÐzÐÐz ÐÐÐÐ(TM)ÐYÐÐ means FOTO SNAIPER (Photo Sniper). The container was usually painted in the typical Russian grey hammerite colour.
Didn't even read the summary?
I'll bet that the brothers did not consider this for anything other than for the game hunter, where it would not be out of place. Any other situation and I'd guess they'd say "uh, why not just use a regular camera?"
Much longer season. Problem solved!
In CA there is such a hunter shortage I can get 6 tags a year. (2 early season primitive, 2 rifle, 2 late season primitive.)
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Imagine getting a photo of a politician with this camera: http://www.novacon.com.br/odditycameras/mamiyapc.htm Or going to a (US) National Park with one of these: http://fedka.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=610&osCsid=726706c7db885cd7ea53125689e0e62e
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
Actually, deer collisions kill hundreds and injure 10s of 1000s every year. They multiply, have fewer predators in more populated areas, eat up all the food, get malnourished, wander to new places looking for food, and cause accidents. They absolutely must be thinned out, and there's no reason anyone who shoots a deer can't eat it. (They should. Venison chili is delicious, and no corporate growth hormones.)
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
I always thought the target range was where you trained. I do not see how taking a picture of my target is more helpful than knowing how the gun feels when it actually goes off recoils etc ...
Too soon, man, too soon.
Needs to be painted bright, NERF yellow and orange to have at least a chance of not getting shot at by a trigger happy cop. Why does it even need a barrel if it's not shooting a bullet? I can understand the stock, trigger and scope part.
--- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
Regardless of your good intentions, this may eventually get you charged with poaching.
I love insects and spiders, and have always been fascinated by them. When I was young, I had a colossal bug collection which I meticulously caught, killed, dried and pinned in display cases. I now have case upon case of dry-rotting insects that were once beautiful and that I even felt a bit guilty about killing (I love spiders too much to kill them, even just one for a collection). At the time, I didn't realize how rare some of them were and in fact there are some silver-spot butterflies in there that I have never seen other than the one specimen I caught.
In retrospect, I wish my parents had given me a camera and told me to go photograph them so that I wouldn't have to kill the specimen and could keep the picture forever. In cases where population control isn't the issue and they don't particularly like the meat, I could see hobby hunters getting into photography instead!
Wildlife photography is not a new thing, but this is a shitty tool for it.
and they don't taste as good either.
As a kid, I would go on hunting trips with my dad, almost every summer. During one of our trips, I was maybe 8, I asked him if they made such a camera, and he thought nothing of it, said no they didn't, and why bother since you can just get a real camera. He then quip that whenever he would carry just a camera he would see more wildlife then when carrying a rifle. It never dawned on me later in life (actually, I had forgotten the event until just reading this article) that it might actually have a market.
Now, take it to the next level. Have these camera gun's all get wifi and can do video (not just freeze frame pictures), and all connect to a central server. Then as "shots" occur, the server has them time stamped, and can do inspection on the images to see where the shot would have landed, and if it would have counted as a kill shot. Then just have the handle of the gun shake if it registers that you have been killed. Afterwards the server could take the feeds from the camera's and give a kill shot run through, perhaps using some video from some of the players who didn't have shaky hands or whatever heuristics you wanted to make... and ta da! You now have The Worlds Most Expensive Laser Tag game with extra video goodness!
I had this idea back in high school. Guess I should've patented it then.
But I also realized then that hunters want more than the experience leading up to killing; they really want the killing itself...
That doesn't change the fact that there's something wrong with a person who enjoys killing other living things. Of course, it's necessary, but the enjoyment of the task indicates some serious mental problems.
I don't respond to AC's.
Defenceless animals.. I sincerely doubt this will ever catch on.
I can think of lots of great uses for this. Personally I plan to use mine to take pictures of the President next time he's in town.
What could go wrong?
So, you're saying all those people that LOVE to go out, and enjoy fishing are mental too? I mean,that's killing other living things too....usually not even fast either, throwing them to flop around on ice in a chest till they die slowly...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Part of the fun of hunting is physics in action. You have a possibly moving prey X meters away. You need to know the wind, hold the gun steady, lead the prey, and know the drop of a bullet. If you just take a picture, that could be a complete miss from bullet drop. If you just take a picture, you could have missed with a bullet because the prey was moving.
Regulated hunting is good because it keeps the animals from overtaking the environment and being pests as most of the natural predators are gone.
God spoke to me
Huh? It's a mental problem to enjoy doing what is necessary? Is it a mental problem to enjoy going to work? Is it a mental problem to enjoy drinking water? It's called living. And no, it's not a mental problem. Not by any professional classification. Just your own emotionalism. Of course, with "dog" in your username, you are incapable of objective thought with animals. Well-demonstrated by your bigoted comments.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Most hunters would say that it's the excitement of the hunt, not the actual killing.
I think you missed the entire point of the article/summary. The Kill Shot camera is not about actually taking photos of animals you are going to actually kill. It's a camera disguised as a rifle used to take pictures of an animal you stalked well enough that you could have killed. It's basically a modern take on "counting coup". I imagine that it could cause stress in the animal being stalked if it were aware of the "hunter" but this can't get much further from pleasure killings/sport hunting.
Urm, no. We now have people running around taking your advice with cameras mounted on fake guns to get all of the sport with none of the killing.
Replace the trigger with a shutter button and you miss the physical kick of the gun, etc.
http://countzero.com/html/albums/GunStockCamera/Gun_Stock_Camera.sized.jpg For an AR15 mount. I've seen the BushHawk advertised for years now. It is basically the same concept... but the stock makes it easier to hold the camera steady, and the triggering mechanism is down there, too: http://www.bushhawk.com/bushhawk/bushhawk-shoulder-mounts.
I get so sick of this sentiment. I am a hunter. I know many, many people who hunt. You don't hunt for the pleasure of killing - you hunt for the "thrill of the hunt". It's a base desire to be a predator. And, yes, part of that fulfillment is when you squeeze the trigger or release the arrow. But, that moment is celebrated for the completion of the hunt - not the act of killing.
To put this in perspective, a common part of hunting is "finishing the kill". This is where you have mortally wounded the animal (eg, a lung shot to a deer), but it is bleeding out still and not entirely dead. Once all threat of the animal getting up and injuring the hunter is removed the hunter will use a knife to quickly finish the kill. I don't know anyone who enjoys this - and that's the actual moment the animal dies. It makes you feel weird having to do it. I can't really express the emotion well with written words, but it's definitely not a good feeling.
TLDR; Hunters are in it for the rush of the hunt, not the actual kill.
Yeah, I'm not big on hunting - largely because I think hunting for "sport" is stupid, if I hunt, I'll hunt because I want to eat what I caught. Considering I have yet to find a place to hunt Angus Beef Stock, and Elk tastes like crap, I won't be hunting anytime soon.
But *THIS* is interesting. I enjoy target shooting, and this would be an activity the difficulty of hunting, without worrying about having to haul/clean/eat something I have no interest in eating.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
And speeches, don't forget those. I'm sure no alarms would go off using it there.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
...for hunting the most dangerous game >:)
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
That was stalking them?
Mod me all to hell but this just seems Un-American (disclaimer: I am not American)
Nope. Headline -> outrage.
So what you're saying is that you're supposed to feel a specific way when killing out of necessity; and if you don't feel that specific way it's a clear indication of mental problems?
Moving right along...
Are you saying that only a photoshop horse can get anything done?
Just think, you can get great pictures from the back of the audience at a presidential inauguration
How long before the police arrest some idiot taking pictures of people that way?
Huh? It's a mental problem to enjoy doing what is necessary? Is it a mental problem to enjoy going to work? Is it a mental problem to enjoy drinking water? It's called living. And no, it's not a mental problem. Not by any professional classification. Just your own emotionalism. Of course, with "dog" in your username, you are incapable of objective thought with animals. Well-demonstrated by your bigoted comments.
Your dipshitery gives hunters a bad name everywhere. Owning a dog has nothing to do with this person's impetus to kill a deer, or not. I own seven dogs and will gladly go on a deer hunt. On the other hand, I would strongly advise against killing said person's dog.
I've seen something like this before... Oh yeah, during the vietnam war....
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20090129/hi-8-camera-gun/
This signature is a waste of 42 characters
Humans can't live without killing other living things. Until we learn to photosynthesize, that is. You just sound like someone who doesn't want to think about where his dinner came from.
When I'm out fishing, it's the act of fishing that I enjoy. If it's not catch-and-release, I also enjoy the tasty fish fry afterwards. I don't actually get any enjoyment out of the killing part, it's just an unfortunate reality.
If someone derives pleasure out of knowing that their catch is slowly dying in the ice chest, then yes, they have something wrong with them.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
As many have already pointed out, it's not the "killing" that is enjoyed.
On another note: perhaps it's because our modern culture is so far removed from where their steak comes from that we have sentiments like this. If I were an animal, I would much rather be even a starving deer who eventually gets "hunted down" than an assembly-line, live in their own shit, cow. At least I would have had the opportunity to be free. This is one of the first thing that comes to mind when someone says how inhumane it is to go hunting; how it's somehow cruel to the animals. As already pointed out, many times those animals are so over populated they're all half starved to death (like the deer example above).
Sigh, there really is too much stupid in this world. (Sadly, I think I probably fall into that lot.)
Now get off my lawn!
I think you missed the entire point of the article/summary.
Or maybe I was reinforcing it... Of course, I can see how on an internet forum the two can be easily confused, given the total absence of a SNARK tag.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Those things are old hat. Here's one that was in the news recently: http://www.petapixel.com/2011/10/17/the-leica-gun-for-wildlife-and-sports-photography/ but virtually all the major camera and accessory makers have done something similar at one time or another.
As cool as it is to have a gun looking camera, you get much more stability out of a camera on a monopod.
And to prove your hunting skills, you could use shorter and shorter prime lenses, which would force you to get closer to your 'prey.'
A screen filling head shot with a 30mm would be pretty impressive!
You are insane.. well-prepared elk is astoundingly delicious.
Definitely not a new idea. Caution - real hunting images at the last link.
http://www.hookertactical.com/Riflescope%20Eye-Cam.html
http://swfa.com/Elcan-DigitalHunter-Riflescopes-C3261.aspx
http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/forum/14845/Video-of-deer-shot-using-the-Elcan-DigitalHunter-DayNight-Riflescope-
I find your use of "old fashioned" interesting here.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
...at a hunting and fishing show about a decade ago. Being a replica rifle, this product would need to have a highly visible tip and for many activities you would want a firearm for self defense anyway. The product I saw was camera integral to a rifle scope that could also be activated on the trigger pull.
There was an episode of The Professionals (1977-1981) where a hunter got a "shot of" a murder happening.
When asked if he meant "shot at" he showed the gun with a camera in the scope.
Fran
:):):)
1st 1st Poster of the new Millennium!
That doesn't change the fact that there's something wrong with a person who enjoys killing other living things. Of course, it's necessary, but the enjoyment of the task indicates some serious mental problems.
Vegetables are living things too you monster!
well-prepared elk is astoundingly delicious
And there's the difference - A sadly large number of people's experience with elk is the elk that someone shot, threw in the back of their truck, then drove 12 hours before cleaning it. The best wild game (deer, not elk, but same principle) I've had was shot on a friends ranch, cleaned at the nearest tree, then immediately taken inside, wrapped, and frozen (to await the cwd results, of course).
Elk don't live around where I am, but as a deer species they will have musk glands. And if those glands are not cut out ASAP, then the meat will taste a lot more gamey than it would otherwise be.
... I could take her out, buy her things and go anywhere with her... but I couldn't get sex. Sounds like "the friend zone gun" to me... you get to do everything except kill and eat the animal.
Then why the fuck do they use rifles? If you want a rush, use a bow don't hide behind a rifle. It's too easy.
That doesn't change the fact that there's something wrong with a person who enjoys killing other living things. Of course, it's necessary, but the enjoyment of the task indicates some serious mental problems.
Them veggies is alive too, you know.
No incumbents, not no where, not no how.
Vote them out every term.
any fool can line up the crosshairs on a target. it takes control and skill to be able to get the bullet to hit the target you had in the crosshairs. fire a high caliber rifle and even a tiny twitch will get you off target.
this is a gimmick. unless it fires a blank or has a way to emulate the recoil and wind it's not proof of anything but having a lot of extra cash.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
As others have pointed out, RTFS.
Also: venison.
Rifles that shoot photos instead of bullets were already promoted in the 80's. I remember them in my old man's shooting magazines and on TV documentaries. Food for thought, consider such US patents as 4630911 (app. 1984), 4907022 (app. 1988) and 5845165 (app. 1997), as well as a whole host of others for all sorts of subtle variations on the same theme (such as patents often are).
As far as "ideas" go, there is nothing news worthy in the KillShot. I proffer that this article is nothing more than an advertisement.
Except for varmint shooters (I'm one). That's all for the kill. Gophers/Prairie dogs exploding in a ball of red mist is just amazing.
They make really heavy guns shooting small caliber bullets out of medium cartidges (.204 Ruger/.17 Fireball) for two things: Target (read paper) and Varmint (dead sploded things). The heavy guns let you see the target in scope as it blows up. Without the combination of lighter cartridge and heavy gun the recoil would not allow you to see the action.
The design of the varmint bullets is such that you have a bullet spinning at a couple hundred thousand RPMs that is highly frangible. This is what makes the things go *poof*. There is far more varmint type bullets from commercial manufacturers than there are target bullets in these calibers. That's what people want, and for good reason: it's fun.
Down south some of these critters actually get big enough to be a source of food. Where I live (up north) that's not the case. They are tiny little critters that just annoy ranchers and farmers. The annoyance is in the form of broken legs on cows/horses and crop damage. My fun actually helps things, but I do it for the fun, not out of helping a fellow human down the road.
Why assume it's any different for the hunters than the fishers? They can also enjoy the hunting part and the eating part, and even the shooting part without enjoying the specific fact that the animal died.
Just buy a good DSLR and spend the bulk of your money on a fast long lens. A 300mm f2.8 telephoto lens will cost you a lot, but it's worth it for wildlife photography. Either that or just go to the zoo.
And yet, unlike people who eat their beef steak or their hamburgers, hunters actually have the guts to finish the kill themselves. Personally, I think people have something wrong with them if they're willing to eat something they're not willing to kill themselves (whether it be microbe, fruit, vegetable, or animal).
These were quite popular in Soviet Union back when I was growing up (80s), and the name for the hobby of photographing wildlife was actually (fotookhota), literally "photo hunting"...
Paul B.
That doesn't change the fact that there's something wrong with a person who enjoys killing other living things. Of course, it's necessary, but the enjoyment of the task indicates some serious mental problems.
Vegetables are living things too you monster!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM
Taking down a decent sized animal with a rifle isn't exactly easy, you know. I'm not a hunter, but I have many friends that are and have read a good bit about "take down power." Elk are notorious for taking what looks like a kill shot and running for miles; often times, they're never found... although the 3 foot wide blood trail is. Bows actually have great take properties if you can get close enough. Arrows kill very differently than bullets.
This looks like a good way to get shot/arrested by suspicious cops. I'd rather have a photosniper kit, at least it doesn't look too much like an actual weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosniper#Photosniper
all the White House press core. Would be fantastic.
How do you suggest one go about killing a fruit? I suppose a dessicator would do the trick, but personally I enjoy devouring my fruit while it's still living.
By putting: "Think of how great this would be at sporting events or family reunions!" at the end of the summary you've guaranteed a fucked discussion, way to fucking go. Lets not discuss this, just talk about how fucked up it would be to have these at sporting events and the hilarity that would ensue.
Look. Nobody enjoys killing animals, but if you have to kill animals, you might as well enjoy it.
I'm sorry but rifle scopes with Camera's are nearly a decade old if not older, and yes for hunting purposes, rifle scopes in the half dozen thousand dollars for LE to train and then record in a shooting situation their marksman have been around for much longer.
This is hardly news. If anything its designed with a slight anti-hunting aspect to the way the blurb was written. To start a flame war perhaps?
So in other words you're not a killer, just a throwback to an less evolved era. Good to know.
I would think the death of the animal, fish or land creature, is an expected part of the hunt...so, it's pretty much incidental, and you just don't even really think about it....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Holling had one of these on an episode of Northern Exposure way back in the '90s. Cool idea- I wanted to make one, but it wasn't worth the trouble before DSLRs were around.
I'm pretty sure it's bloodlust such as in the parent post that DogDude was talking about and it doesn't take great leaps for a person to follow this bloodlust into hunting, so I'm confident holmedog's generalisation is wrong. Looking at the moderation though, it would seem slashdotters would prefer what he said to be true and so have modded him informative.
I personally differ with people who want to turn creatures into clouds of blood, and share DogDude's sentiment. If you consider this an irrational stance to take, I would agree that it is, along with caring about other human beings and the like.
Anyone who has actually done anything with rifles should know that one of the fundamental rules is: don't point your gun at anything you don't want to shoot. By encouraging people to point these guns at people to take pictures, that is taking all safety out of the picture; imagine what these people are going to do once they have a real gun.
I can't eat a picture. Well, I can, but it's not as satisfying.
My digestive juices do the job nicely enough.
How fast the bullet rotates is totally determined by the weapon's rifling and the speed of the bullet. It is not determined by the bullet's design alone. (The speed depends on the amount of propellant, the length of the barrel, friction characteristic and the amount of propellant.)
So in other words you're not a killer, just a throwback to an less evolved era. Good to know.
Evolution has nothing to do with modern society and current humans. An easy argument could be made that humans are rapidly devolving.
"but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
I'm 100% (one hundred percent) certain that this has been done. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=camera+gun+stock Congratulations on the "innovation." The only difference I see between this and other implementations of a camera integrated into a gun stock is this one isn't obviously a camera; definitely a *key* feature.
My state of Iowa has been very boneheaded about the population control of deer for quite some time now. It's now like you say, and they are in town now causing accidents. People are stupid though and feed them, encouraging them even more to move into town. It's going to take someone getting injured badly or killed by one before the public wakes up.
Deer to me are no longer cute. They are vermin, big rats with horns and hooves, dangerous to property and to lives.
Deer are also awesome eating! We could feed a lot of poor people with them and I feel people should be eating them down to a controlled population.
I find the remarks of people who obviously have no idea where food comes from to be amusing. If they saw all the animals that die everyday to feed them, and had to process that food themselves, I fear they might starve to death. Of course there is a savagery that comes with the territory, but that is part of getting the job done. In a primitive situation, just keeping everyone fed and clothed is a full time job for about everyone.
I can understand city folks not understanding hunting. They have no way to relate to it. Weapons of any kind are dangerous in proximity to such high populations, so it's not hard to understand a dislike for them. But if you were to be raised around them, and in a culture that can go produce food for its self out of the wilds, you can have a deep appreciation for their utility. If you live out in the heart of the wilds, you might consider it insane not to have a gun handy. From what I know of the people that prowl the back roads at night looking for things to steal or someone to prey upon, it's indeed insane not to have a gun handy.
Not all hunters are Princes. What I really don't care for are fat cat rich city people who come tearing up the countryside with their big SUVs. They get drunk and are dangerous on the roads, they are dangerous to livestock and people while they are infesting the area. They throw money around like their weight though, hence they are tolerated.
I've met "poachers" before. Poor people, just feeding themselves and others is all they were. I've never seen such efficient processing of deer until I met them, they never wasted a thing from the deer. City fat cat hunters will often just take a rack from the deers head or just a cut of the meat, leaving the rest. It's disgusting to find this rotted and wasting away, feeding coyotes.
Is there an "insanity" to the kill in hunting? I think people are just afraid of what they don't understand. Hunting is a primal activity, and it's something we have instincts for. To deny a basic part of us to me is insanity. You can't keep nature bottled up. A good "hunt" is cathartic, a good outlet for stress. But with that said, some people shouldn't be out hunting with anything more than a Nerf Bat, they are dangerous to themselves and others armed with anything else. Not everyone is a "natural" for it.
Take the Red Pill.
I just wanted to point out it is your view (not fact) that the deer must be shot in order to prevent 10's of thousands of deaths... while it has been proven effective in other countries that do not allow firearms that propely designed and fenced motorways prevent the deaths as well. They also last for generations.
Now to dilute my point, I recognize venison is good... and animals need to die for me to eat meat.
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
I'm planning a hunting safari to the USA (yeah I know you dont have real lions or elephants outside of zoos, and that most of your buffalo have been killed long ago).
But I believe there are some friendly TSA agents at your airports who would just love to have their picture taken.
varmint bullets do not spin faster, as that's decided by your barrels rate of twist. actually, varmint ammunition tends to use a lightweight bullet, which performs better in barrels with a lower rate of twist, and hence spins slower.
Maybe one has to be a hunter to understand this thinking, but... why in the world wouldn't they just use a normal camera instead? Why does it have to look like a rifle?
Who cares if you're sick of the sentiment? Bottom line is - you kill. I could care less about the difference between the thrill of the kill and the thrill of the hunt. If it was just the thrill of the hunt, why not use non-lethal guns, like paint ball guns? The mark of paint is a sign you've hit it - no need for killing. The fact that you're so deep into it that you can't see a sane alternative suggests there is something about the act of killing that you do enjoy. You don't know anyone who enjoys the killing, but then why mortally wound the animal in the first place?
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Another option would be the Bush Hawk product line. It's a grip with trigger, and you mount your SLR camera on it. It doesn't look much like a gun, but if the resulting photos are the goal, rather than the "shooting", it might be an interesting alternative.
http://www.bushhawk.com/
Where we have more than 275,000,000 GUNS in private ownership. Screw the NRA!
From TFS "Think of how great this would be at sporting events or family reunions!"
Any idiot who brought something that looked like a hunting rifle to my family reunion and started pointing it at my kids would soon be getting the good news from my good friend Mr Cricket Bat
Guns are for killing things. If you want to take photos use a fucking camera, long lens and tripod rather than acting out your childish Ernest Hemingway fantasies.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
... until the SWAT team mistakenly takes you down.
All of the hunters I know don't relish the death part of hunting it is a necessary part of hunting for food but it isn't something we enjoy seeing. What I do enjoy is the eating part, I don't take pictures of the kill. Personally every time I loose a shot at an animal I hope it is the nice clean kill shot right through the vitals, but fear that I just wounded the animal. I don't want the animal to suffer unnecessarily, just be injured, have its jaw shot off (this is why I don't attempt head shots) and starve, or go try and track it down following a blood trail that is a few drops here or there. I practice shooting, about 18,000 shots a year mostly from my target air rifle but a few hundred each from my hunting rifle and shotgun, and like to think I am a good shot and so far every shot has been a clean kill. I also use the correct type of ammunition for the game I am hunting to maximize the probability of a clean kill instead of just wounding it. I go to great lengths to ensure that I get a good shot off and have not taken a number of shot that I probably could have gotten but were questionable, as in all you see is deer head and it is twitchy because of all the hunting.
Time to offend someone
I just feel bad for all of those people that harvest those poor defenseless vegetables. Talk about a slow painful death, it's spread out over weeks.
appropriate captcha: silence
But wait. It's actually illegal to put a fence up that is high enough to stop deer from jumping over here in VA. They're supposed to be allowed to go where they want. Great, huh?
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Funny story, one of my friend's brothers children asked their dad what plants different meat grows on. My friend and I had a good laugh at that one because it does show just how far removed people have gotten from their food.
As far a factory farming goes I have steered clear of it, I either get my meat from hunting or from friends of the family who raise cattle or bison. I have been out to their farms, small operations with few animals on 40 or 80 acres. The animals aren't in the feed lot environment, aren't pumped full of antibiotics and hormones, aren't fed bits of other animals, are free to wander about on the land, and are fed a good varied diet of grasses, alfalfa, and some grain (wheat, barley, corn). The one who raises cattle has only lost 1 animal in the 27 years they have been raising cattle and that was one that froze to death in the bitter cold of 1996 when we had record cold (temps dropping well below -40 in places), and the one who raises bison hasn't lost an animal in the 12 years they have be doing it.
Time to offend someone
As far as poachers are concerned I think there are more poachers out there just blasting away than people who are illegally taking animals to feed their family. Just about every year I find a poacher and turn them in. Last year was the most egregious instance I have run across. Kept hearing shots (sounded like pray and spray) from a spot north of where I was hunting during the week (some well before legal hours). On the last Sunday I decided I would go and see if I could find this hot spot and see if I could fill another tag. After searching for a while I found it but wouldn't want to hunt it as it had been used by a poacher. There were 5 gut piles (this area is a 2 deer limit) that I found, piles of corn and apples, beer cans and other trash every where, an illegal permanent stand (covered with camo netting to conceal it), and 6 empty 50# sacks of corn in the stand. I went back to camp to get my vehicle so I could drive back out the main road to get a cell signal to call the DNR. They came out and wanted to see the find which I showed them and also pointed out the atv tracks leading out. The DNR conservation officer followed the tracks back to the guy's cabin and found the guy as well as the deer none of which were tagged. The guy lost his ATV, truck, trailer, and gun, as well as his stand getting destroyed (that was fun).
Time to offend someone
One key is quick field dressing and quick proper processing, as well as getting a clean kill so they don't run all over the place while dying. My deer last season took 3 hours from the time it was shot until it was a the meat processor. This included immediate field dressing, dragging it the half mile out of the woods to the vehicle, stopping in the nearest town to buy some ice to put into the carcass to get it cooled as quickly as possible as well as getting another doe tag so our party had one, dropping the doe tag off with my uncle, and the 1.5 hours drive to the processor.
Time to offend someone
You just sound like someone who doesn't want to think about where his dinner came from.
That's a straw man argument. I acknowledged the need to kill things. I don't debate that. I said that getting enjoyment from it is sick.
I don't respond to AC's.
In an episode of Danger Man from 1966 called "The Man With the Foot" there was a rifle that worked as a long range movie camera that they used to film the trapping of wolves for tagging.
You are pretty proud of snitching someone out for wanting to eat. May you get what you deserve.
Take the Red Pill.
Probably won't read this since it's yesterday's story, but no. I would not consider blkmajik a hunter (at least not in his shooting of varmints). That is blood sport and not hunting. I'm sure someone, somewhere kills varmints because of a necessity, and we might consider that person a hunter.
That doesn't change the fact that there's something wrong with a person who enjoys killing other living things.
Yeah. Crazy Gardeners, all happy about pulling up weeds and chomping on plant babies...
~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
I appreciate your response and can also see your point of view. I understand that, for you, a hunter is more than a person who hunts: he must also hunt for the right reasons.
I can imagine a lot, perhaps most people who hunt to live, do so without any pleasure for the actual killing. I can't fault those people. The moral grey area comes with those who hunt for sport, since already the aim is enjoyment and taking satisfaction in the creatures death could easily be part of it.
To be clear, I'm not talking about the satisfaction of a job well done: I'm talking about taking pleasure in extinguishing life, for it's own sake. This is what disgusts me personally, and I think it does you too.
So if that's how you feel, I'm glad we agree. Just don't assume that everyone who hunts, does so for the same reasons as you. And don't assume that everyone's definition of 'hunter' is the same as yours.
There is a bento place nearby that serves both Buffalo (Bison, dammit! But they call it Buffalo,) and Elk. The Elk is *VERY* hit-and-miss. Even the best I've had, I didn't like.
And, no offense to my wife, but she sucks at preparing meat dishes - and while I can do a decent job on meat dishes, I have tried once (my grandfather was an avid hunter-for-food, and gave me a frozen chunk,) and did a horrible job on Elk. Even my grandmother's preparation was "iffy".
But there are a few other meat types that I just don't like the taste of, that others love (turkey, for example.) So it's probably a combination of iffy preparation and just plain dislike.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Pedophiles or rapists also do the same. They don't rape small children in order to reproduce. They want the thrill, the fulfillment, to see their prey trying to escape, they want to see it crying. That predator instinct, the murderous instinct. It is also the serial killers fulfillment. Most, if not all, serial killers do not know personally their victims and do not have something to gain from. But they like the fulfillment of the murder.
It is exactly as sick as what you feel.
ps: I love Doom2 and DN3D. But I don't confuse them with actual life.
Again, that traffic/development/law problem has also been dealt with in other countries...
It will never happen in North America... but I'll always think its lame to use the "think of the children" excuse for gun ownership. I am sure most Americans use their handguns to cull the deer so that their tulips don't get eaten and their children don't die in deer collisions.
Why not just say f&%# you, I want to be able to shoot my guns instead of poping up with excuses for gun ownership and political excuses for all sorts of things that actually do not make sense.
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
So next time you correct someone for not saying what you think they should say, maybe you should read the conversation more carefully and not presume it is about what you declare it is about. That is actually decided by the people having the conversation.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
I did misunderstand. I went off on the seperate topic on the justification of guns when I mis-interpreted you advocate killing the deer (with guns) as a nescesity to save lives. In fairness, this article he is commenting about is about guns and your comments were about need to thin deer population. I did not mean it to be personal and was just expressing my thoughts.
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
that's actually a great idea, i was already worked up over the title because it would be a very humane idea to take a picture of what you're about to remove from existence forever ... some kind of morbid preservation urge when it comes to the past they've wasted? but this sounds great, how it will come down with people kicking on the feeling of power they get somehow from pulling that trigger from i dunno how far away against a defenseless animal for sport, i don't know. But it is a great idea if ever there should be a ban on weapons it should be hunting weapons. There's way less wildlife to spare than humans if i may be so bland as to explain it in a few words
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?