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YouTube Ordered To Remove Videos, Filter Future Uploads By German Court
suraj.sun sends this excerpt from Deutsche Welle:
"YouTube was told by a regional court in Hamburg on Friday not to display seven out of 12 contested clips without permission from the German copyright fee collecting society Gema. Gema claimed that its members were losing money every time their music was being displayed on YouTube. A proper licensing fee between the two sides expired in 2009. The Hamburg State Court ruled YouTube would in future have to install an efficient mechanism to filter out such content uploaded by users or face a fine of up to 250,000 euros ($330,000) for each case, or up to six months imprisonment. Knowing that a foolproof filter system looks next to impossible, Gema is now hoping that Google will finally agree to a new bilateral licensing treaty whereby the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched."
I hope that Google plays hardball, and simply blacks out Youtube for Germany. The resulting user outcry would then be turned against Gema.
Or Google could just block access to YouTube from German IPs and let them see what they've really won.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Especially given gross fiscal incentive to doso.
Just like Grooveshark did, google should just block youtube from germany.
You don't like free advertising, GEMA? Now you get none. Fuck the fuck right fucking off. Germany is only 80M ppl. Youtube wouldn't even feel a dent.
Let's face it. How many videos and comments have been censored by the allseeing eyes of GGle? They use copyright as an excuse all to often. If you want to see stuff, you have to use alternatives. Try Gibiru for instance.
If they can't automatically filter the videos, how can they automatically detect them to calculate the "fixed fee each time the copyright-protected videos are watched?"
This is either a sign of complete, magical belief in technology or judicial incompetence.
Unfortunately I lean towards the latter.
Or its just Germans being German.
"Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called everyone, they meet at the bar."
This is a German state court decision, there's no connection to the EU in this story here at all.
Editors, please fix this.
Were YouTube to agree to a fee paid for each viewing, wouldn't this give Gema an incentive to have bots upload and "watch" their videos so as to line their pockets? What's to prevent that from happening?
If they get a fee per 'click' then it has to be all the way to the end and not originate from an IP of a member. Oh. Then you have to publish those to Google too. There.
The Germans are obviously upset with all of the Downfall parodies.
"... the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched ..."
And then start paying people to watch the videos.
Profit!
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
"Gema is now hoping that Google will finally agree to a new bilateral licensing treaty whereby the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched."
1. Get YouTube to give you two cents each time one is watched
2. Go to a third world country/botnet and pay a penny per click to get viewers
3. Profit!
Seriously, pull out of Germany and let the people tell their politicians how they really feel. I imagine they will be welcomed back when a few rules are tweaked.
Sorry, but when Gema is using the courts to force Google into a "licensing" agreement that they've defined on their own, knowing that what the courts have mandated is outright impossible, that's called "UNILATERAL".
GStreamer - The only way to stream!
This is the problem with allowing single entities (no matter HOW they are intentioned) to be the gatekeepers to the internet. It makes the entire system vulnerable to censorship. The more diverse it is, the more resilient it is.
So remind me again: why is it that we seem to want to allow a few giant companies like Facebook and Google to control all our content?
I just can't understand Germany lately. This is a great country with really enlightened people running it for the most part but their positions on IP - software patents (legal in Germany) and draconic copyright measures are just counter to everything else the Germans do in terms of forward thinkingness.
I am guessing it's because they've drunk the IP Kool-Aide and think that all these measures are somehow making for a stronger economy ... or something....
Last I checked, treaties are between governments. Between corporations, those are supposed to be contracts.
The difference is that treaties and governments are supposed to supersede any contracts (e.g. you can't expect a contract of indentured servitude to have any force in the US).
I am officially gone from
This is an interesting dilema for Google. In my opinion google should appeal the descision asking GEMA to provide a filtering algorithm that meets GEMAs demand. If GEMA cannot or will not supply the algorithm the Google should be able to ask the courts to reverse the decision based on the evidence that GEMA has asked google to do something that GEMA themselves cannot do.
if they can't identify the videos, how are they supposed to count the video views?
*baffled*
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
while its still fresh. Imagine the look on GEMA's face when all videos from Germany are blocked or better yet deleted. The applause Google would get from the rest of the world would overshadow what they would lose from cutting Germany off.
If they don't want to do that then at least
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I had no idea what FRAND was, but a wikipedia search indicates it covers patents. This is a copyright dispute, not a patent dispute.
END COMMUNICATION
Without youtube most of these people's works would have faded from public view or remained obscure.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I promise I'll never download Gema stuff. I never heard of it, obviously they don't want me to see, so fine.
Re-direct all german traffic to servers in the US. Turn off the German ones for a while and save some power.
Only allow those requests to view the 240 version of all videos. Not only will it be lower resolution, but slower than usual, too.
Put a nice big banner above the videos explaining why, with contact information of GEMA.
I had a sucky sig.
I do not have a problem with Google blocking all uploads by German Court (whoever he/she is).
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Come on Google. Just block the entirely of Germany!
Google should comply wit the court order by blocking these videos. Ideally, they should block them by redirecting users to videos by bands not controlled by Gema with a message as to why they were redirected. If the users like the redirected videos enough, well that solves the problem completely.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
People still fail to grasp the essential difference between actual property and intellectual property.
If you take my actual property, you are a thief, because I make a loss that I didn't consent to (meaning you have a definite negative impact on my life), and you are responsible for it.
If you take my intellectual property without me consenting to it, you might gain something in the same way as with taking my actual property, but the important part is I don't necessarily lose anything. Thus you had a neutral impact on my life. Now obviously I prefer you to have a positive impact on my life, but really, can I demand that to the extent that I can dictate the terms? Only to the extent that I have to work in order for you to get the intellectual property, i.e. if I have to run the server you download it from, or I have to read or explain or sing it to you. But if somebody else gives you that intellectual property, I don't work for that AT ALL. So I can't demand anything at all, either!
Then the only negative impact you have on my life then depends on my values, on my view on life. Just like when gays fuck each other and some anti-gay person knows about it. He might not approve of it, it might even anger him, but that still doesn't mean he has a right to deprive them of their fun. So you, dear artist, may not like me enjoying your music without giving you the moneys, you may complain about it, but you still don't get to deprive me of that joy just because you would like to.
You are used to surely get compensated by giving your stuff away to some distribution company which will pay you over time. That worked when they could piggy-back your bill on the money they get for doing actual work, like printing a book, pressing a CD, distributing it to stores, hiring people to guard the stuff and taking people's money in exchange for the actual good. I.e. it worked fine when buying plastic disks or packs of sliced trees were the only ways to get your stuff. But that is over! Now the delivery is so cheap and easy that everybody can do it from their own home, free of charge, without thinking about it. Yet you still give your stuff away before you get compensated for creating it. And then you whine about people not giving you any money, people you never signed a contract with, who never agreed to it, as opposed to the labels and publishers. No, there's just a law on your side that basically auto-creates a contract, i.e. without anybody having any chance to define the terms for themselves. That's a pretty weak basis.
You have to come up with something new. YOU have to make sure you get payed for your *actual* work (performing and recording your songs, writing your books) in some other way. Distribution is now essentially free, so don't piggy-back it on that. Find something else. Say how much you want for you *one-time* work, get people interested in paying a portion of that by providing samples of your work, wait until enough people promised to give you their money so you get your money's worth, and only *THEN* release your stuff in its entirety. If you still get donations afterwards, out of shear gratitude, good for you! But you won't need them anymore, cause you got compensated before already. So you also don't have the urge to demand it from people. And call them thieves if they don't comply.
That's because opponents see YouTube as a piggy bank that you can shake and make it rain money.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Perhaps I'm missing something, but how would they imprison YouTube? Would all the videos have bars in front of them? Are they going to round up all of Google Gerrmany's employees and send them to prison? Would just the head of Google's Germany office get sent to jail? How exactly do you send a company to jail?
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Why the fuck is a court uploading videos?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
That's for video's specifically targeted at sharing the "infringing" content.
But they also take issue with people uploading their own videos /w copyrighted soundtracks, and how about if I upload a video of myself singing "Song X" (I'm not sure if this is considered "fair use", though it may considered "cruel and unusual punishment" given my singing ability).
Here's a radical question: why shouldn't Google pay GEMA for the use of their music on the site? YouTube is a business which operates for profit. They use GEMA's music in the course of generating that profit. If Google profits without compensating GEMA, and thereby the musicians that GEMA represents, then Google is unfairly exploiting the creative rights of others for money. Nobody complains about how cable, TV, radio and film companies need to properly license the music they use. Why is YouTube any different?
How about:
YouTube Ordered By German Court To Remove Videos, Filter Future Uploads
or
German Court Orders YouTube to Remove Videos and Filter Future Uploads
What about fair use? What about copyright expiration? Since when did one side get to control and decide everything for everyone else? Don't we fight wars to stop Feudalism and dictatorships? Why do they get to usurp our common history and culture for profits that go well beyond anything that anyone would consider reasonable simply because they are allowed to?
Where and how can I send them a bill when I'm forced to listen to music THEY push on me (in advertising, marketing, radio, television, on billboards, and even websites....) ? I don't want to, and don't need to, listen to ANYTHING they provide, and in fact, I DEMAND they provide a service that will keep anything they produce or are responsible for from being within my hearing..... Should this not also be "reasonable"? If not, then why do they get their way and I don't get mine? Perhaps we can compromise? But no, they want their cake and to eat it too.....
Well, here are my demands:
1. If music or "sounds" are played in a public area then that "sound" will become public domain.
2. If you want to protect your music, you must ensure everyone listening to it has signed contracts declaring they understand they do not own the music.
3. If played illegally then the first two don't apply; however, it will be up to the Music industry to go after whoever played it illegally for losses.
This is how contracts, NDAs, trademark, and other IP laws work. If you just go broadcasting your shit all over the place then you loose (it becomes public knowledge or public domain).... why is music the opposite? -- Although truthfully, it seems in the past 10-15 years the IP laws are trying to get the deal the Music industry has where they own everything irregardless of how badly they managed it (submarine patents, etc). Personally, I am fed up, I just DON'T want their shit, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to know about it, I want it gone. I will whenever possible refuse to listen to it even. They will be a LONG time before they get a penny from me and I just don't care about them.
And, from that perspective, I am hopeing they keep pushing this shit so that it affects everyone to the point of choking themselves :)
> but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched
Gee, there would be any way to game that system, now would there?
The 302 thing usually signifies involvement by the 'church' of Scientology. For reasons unknown, 302 meant something significant to L Ron Hubbard. Read "Battlefield Earth" and pay attention to how many times the number 302 appears. It's kind of weird. Maybe he was a fan of Ford V8s?
The 302 Views is caused by YouTube's "spam guard" explained here. It's a way for YouTube to censor some popular channels without really censoring them. They mark certain channels as spam magnets, freeze their view counts at 300, and therefore keep their videos out of the "most popular" lists. This allows videos from "proper" channels like Vevo, CNN, etc. take over the front pages.
As the article mentions, Gema is fully aware that it is almost impossible for Google to implement a filtering system that prevents videos with Gema content from being uploaded. They are using this court decision to force Google to renew a license with them that expired in 2009 and changes the terms of that license so that Google would have to pay Gema every time a video with Gema content is viewed rather than their previous agreement of paying a single up-front licensing fee.
I think Google's best option is to comply as much as possible with the court ruling. Their German distribution system should immediately disable audio for all of their videos and provide a link describing their fear of being fined for any videos that are currently available that contain Gema content. They can explain that audio on all videos will remain disabled until they come up with a proper system for removing all currently available videos with Gema audio and preventing any future videos from being uploaded with Gema content. They should also explain that this will probably take months, maybe years, to complete such a filtering system. This way, Gema's extortion plan backfires (instead of getting more money in licensing fees, they get nothing) and the ire of YouTube users is directed at the German government and Gema (where it belongs).
Youtube knows your fetishes, and you're one of the 302 people with that disgusting fetish.
block all music that not release under cc-sa/cc-0 conditions
that would block all established music and allow independent musicians to release their content
It truly the only way you could block all infringement.
Based on the article headline, I figured the solution would be simple: Just close the German Court's account so it can't upload any more videos. After reading some of these comments, it sounds like it might not be as simple as that.
The GEMA filter would probably be set to timeout the computer if not melt your hard drive.
Maybe it's just because you visit crap on the tube?
the from youtube section:
-Rios: 'There Are Tons of People in Government' Who are..
(some commie shit? 330 views, no idea why it's here, maybe it was trending just then when I visited the page).
-NORTH KOREA PERSPECTIVE
-New Photo Shows Zimmerman's Bloody Head
-ONLY IN MALAYSIA
etc.
(then there's some minecraft stuff, some galaxy samsung III leak vid, some ps3 reviews which I couldn't give a shit about etc. I think these are mostly composed from page history _outside_ of youtube)
you know what's funny creepy? I'm not logged in to youtube("Create account/Sign in" button is there..).
now, the recommended list makes a little more sense, it's composed from pages I've visited on youtube and pages related to them, some c64 remixes, omf remixes, some elder scrolls history stuff, some old pc game reviews. etc.. the recommended list is the only one which makes sense, however the vids I watch 10 times a day aren't there!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c86USvTJFso (Kris Hatlelid is my new favorite computer game musician)
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
You mean there are German bands other than The Scorpions, Kraftwerk, Ramstein, Nina, and Tangerine Dream? (I deliberately exclude David Hasselhoff, no one likes him except the Germans anyway)
On a more serious note. Google/YouTube is unlikely to negotiate with people attempting extortion. Germany, get ready to kiss YouTube goodbye.
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
how can per click payment be possible? If they knew it required payment, they would have known to filter it.
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
There is no way that any nation, group of nations, regions, states, cities, town or businesses should be able to censor or control or limit the net. Allowing on entity to do so authorises all other entities to do exactly the same thing. It is exactly like nuclear proliferation. We end up with some nations claiming to be the real deal in authority while other nations are assumed to be some sort of lesser or lower valued peoples.
"...Gema claimed that its members were losing money every time their music was being displayed on YouTube"
I'm lost here... For example, assuming that youtube was the only way to watch videos and all GEMA video was blocked, how GEMA would gain anything if nobody would know that her videos even exist? What these GEMA executives have in their heads?
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
.. I'd actually welcome something as drastic as preventing german visitors access to youtube. Otherwise the populace will never get that GEMA is to be removed ASAP. But Google will just go least resistance with most revenue and bow. Damn, I hate how little political well doing is done by the powerful Google.
No big deal. I'll bet that German court hasn't uploaded very many videos.
Anyone know that the German Court's YouTube ID is? I did a search and I didn't see anything obvious. Maybe the "uploads by [the] German Court" have all been removed already?
I wonder just why so many people here seem to believe they are entitled to enjoy free content (in this case music videos).
Next, people will feel entitled to get books for free.
Next, people will feel entitled to get movies for free.
Next, people will feel entitled to get paintings for free.
Next, people will feel entitled to get news for free.
If YouTube (Google) is not able to pay royalties for the content they use to attract advertisers, they do not have a viable business and should shut down YouTube.
To all the freeloaders here: In Germany the alternative is MyVideo.de (all GEMA videos available because they have a proper agreement with GEMA) - YouTube is not needed at all.
Google can't afford to lose business in Germany, but obviously doesn't want to buy any 'product' from a penny-ante company like GEMA.
"There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." The network, 1976.
So which 'nation' is bigger, Google or GEMA? Google can block all videos to Germany because GEMA refuses OUR licensing agreements.
Gema claimed that its members were losing money every time their music was being displayed on YouTube.
This is priceless. I lose money every time you look at this comment. $250,000 EVERY SINGLE TIME. Please close your eyes when scrolling past the comments section.
Google already has video recognition filters in place. Granted it's not nearly as develloped as their music recognition but it exists.
Accounting for all this is going to be prohibitively costly. I wouldn't be surprised to see youtube pull out of Germany.
One closes another opens, so goes the internet. For example Thaddle Social Network opened their File Sharing Network last month after the MegaUpload mess. Two Days ago the opened they Radio Network for music listening, and today they opened their Thaddle Cine, full length movies. All services are free, like Youtube! Are they next?
Isn't GEMA the group that sued a music festival full of acts that specifically were NOT GEMA members, claiming that it didn't matter, the venue had to pay up regardless? They essentially think they own all sound performed in Germany. I hope Google just blocks YouTube and points all viewers to the GEMA complaint email.
Since Youtube makes money off someone else's work, it is only fair that this someone must be compensated for their work.
There is no such thing as Intellectual Property. First commercial use ought to belong to the innovator; after at most seven years, that's it. If one can not find a way to stay first, wtf. I support any and all methods including revolutionary dismemberment of all nation-states, to vindicate my position on this.
I get a lot, and I truly mean that, a lot of video from US colleague, forums or whatnot which tells me "due to lack opf licence agreement the GEMA blahlbha" on youtube. I can't even watch the video SOUNDLESSLY, even the picture is not available jsut a fragging black screen with the GEMA text. Verdammte verfickte GEMA.
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