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Why Apple's Next Revolution Should Be In Your Car
New submitter eetc writes "This article surveys the sorry state of car makers' stereo and navigation systems: 'It's clear that most of the auto companies that offer more than a car stereo want to lock you into their interface and services — as awful as they are. The rest don't care. The aftermarket stereo and nav systems are no better. Stuffed with even more buttons and light-show gewgaws, they're sure to keep your eyes off the road and may not work easily with your stuff. Add to that mix the split focus of also having to use a separate GPS unit in most vehicles, and you have to wonder what keeps our roads so relatively safe.' The answer in one word: iCar. This is just the sort of broken market that Apple specializes in taking over."
Driver: Siri, why is the car slowing down?
Siri: I'm sorry, but this road has not been pre-approved by Apple for use with your Apple vehicle. Would you like me to suggest an alternate, approved route?
Driver: Wait, you can control my car...the WHOLE car? Which one of these wires will unplug you anyway, bitch? ....Hey, what is that coming out of the air conditioner?
Siri: I've detected an illegal attempt at vehicle modification. This will help you relax while I drive you to the Apple Store for sanction.
Driver: waait..iah...stoppp
Siri: Your end-user license agreement specifically stated at purchase that your Apple vehicle was to be used for the sole purpose of engaging in Apple approved activities. Any attempt to modify this car is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and may result in penalties from a fine to death.
Driver: deaaathhh?
Siri: Penalty will be determined through third-party mediation, which you also agreed to at purchase. Is there anything else I can help you with today?
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
they said that about the living room a few years ago, what happened there?
And the stereo will only work when I hold the steering wheel correctly?
Stereo? GPS? Car companies can't even make a cup holder that actually works.
It is strange, because as far as I can tell, people have been taking beverages into automobiles for at least... 12 years... perhaps more? And yet, car companies keep trying to reinvent the cup holder, usually horribly.
WTF? How can it be that difficult to engineer something so simple after so much time?
What's wrong with getting a bit old fashioned - volume control know, tuning knob, slide controls or dials to control the heater (back to the '80's anyone).
Anytime you get buttons involved and a touch screen you need to look at it. Any buttons should have a unique "feel/texture" so you can differentiate by touch without looking.
Wordpress founder Matt Mullenweg in October 2011:
http://ma.tt/2011/10/whats-next-for-apple/
"This is the most far-out, but I think most certain. Voice-controlled search through Siri and Apple Maps provide the hands-free framework for a rich interactive experience while driving. Walk down the car stereo aisle in Best Buy and see what $800 gets you, or a $300 GPS from Garmin, vs an iPad or iPhone. The screens feel like a TI-92 calculator. The typography makes my eyes bleed. I find it morally reprehensible how bad these products are because it’s one of the areas of technology where a bad interface is most directly tied to injuries and deaths. Car folks are making their iPhone/iPod integrations better and better, which may be a glass of ice water in hell, but they’ll never make the jump to providing a beautiful marriage of media, search, and navigation that a great in-car experience needs. Right now you can spend 110k on a Tesla Roadster, a car of the future, and for an additional $4,500 (9 iPads!) get this Alpine head unit. (Watch that video and try not to laugh at how bad the interface is.) Retail it only sets you back 1.4 iPads. That’s just sad."
I think if editors are going to post non-news blog opinion pieces, they have a duty to do a little due diligence--is the argument novel, or have other people made it before? Is it well explained, or not? Is Galen Gruman a heavyweight? Is Infoworld? Are their arguments likely to provoke further discussion amongst heavyweights?
Not to say that the issue is any less germane than it was in October 2011, but just accepting a link because it was submitted and it seems reasonable enough is not good editorial practice.
The article linked doesn't really add anything to the one I just posted, it's split over two pages for extra ad impressions, and the site is incredibly visually busy filled with social widgets and tags and ads and everything, in contrast to the one I posted which is clean.
> It's clear that most of the auto companies that offer more than a car stereo
> want to lock you into their interface and services — as awful as they are.
Uh huh. So if Apple locked you into THEIR interface and services it would be insanely great and you would be lining up for it.
P.T. Barnum was an optimist.
Democrat delenda est
Having to deal with iTunes already makes me suicidal when I'm stationary, much less at 75mph.
I already have that in my car. anyone that has bought an aftermarket stereo that has a high level of iphone integration already has these features.
Hell Kenwood has one that now mirrors the iphone screen on the dash display, it's been out for a year now... Did the article author even look to se what was already on the market?
What I want is a genuine Android based car stereo. Unfortunately anything out there is all locked down wierd like the Parrot Android car stereo or a complete steaming turd from china running a 500mhz processor and runs WinCE for the nav section.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Tired of that big, clunky wheel getting in your way? No problem! The new iCar will simply have a pair of buttons, letting you turn 90 degrees left or right with a single push. Another button will allow you to turn around. You don't really need to drive anywhere that those aren't enough for, anyway.
How will Apple be able to leverage such a system to sell third-party content and take their cut?
Mirror the display, mic, speakers and touch screen of your smartphone. Done. Was that so hard? If you want to show off you can even make it so you enable voice commands by default and integrate with steering wheel stereo controls.
I don't want integration. I want my radio to be my radio and my GPS (if I had a GPS) to be my GPS. I don't want co-mingling of technology.
Haven't we learned anything from Battlestar Galactica? You don't network everything. You keep things separate.
Or, if you snerk at that example, haven't we learned anything from Unix/Linux where each piece does it's thing, and ONLY it's thing?
We've seen what an absolute shitfest things become when we try to make things "new and improved", "Now with more features you have to look at and try to decipher while driving!" Hey Ford, how's that wonderful technological tour de force radio and navigation interface working out?
Engineers and developers need to get their heads out of their asses and go back to the ultimate rule: KISS
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Since phones are basically pocket gps nav, media players, game centers etc, there is no reason for the car stereo to be anything other then an amplifier an aux minijack anymore and maybe throw in a radio for the old timers. Why would apple subsidize that industry to get their own hardware in cars when people already use their phones to do that stuff anyways? If the car industry was smart they'd stop adding that extra crap and just provide a standard interface for devices to connect to and share data across.
I have an Ipod enabled stereo in my car, have had one for 6+ years. It sucks frankly, for trying to navigate through songs, albums, playlists etc. I usually just connect through the aux port and navigate through the ipod. It's easier and faster to do then playing with the stereo for 10 minutes cycling through one directory or song after another to find something I feel like listening to.
I'm not entirely sure you understand the difference here. You do realize the auto company interfaces don't have images of fruit stamped into them? Right?
My honda CR-V EX-L has a USB port. i plug my iphone in, pick a playlist and let it play. i can use the steering wheel buttons to skip songs. also works with pandora and slacker radio. spotify is a little buggy.
it also works with Zune and plain USB flash drives. android not so good because it's a plain vanilla micro-USB port on their phones
and i'll take my iphone GPS over a car GPS. Waze on iphone is free, not $2000. and free traffic info.
watch how you hold that steering wheeeeeeeel
Apple would not partner with an automaker. Instead they would take their typical walled garden approach by designing their own car around their smart device and selling it at a substantial profit...but Apple fans would buy the car, no matter what the cost. Of course the problem then arises that the vehicles have to drive on 3rd party roads...That would be the next level in Apple conquest.
But then would the response from apple be "You are just driving wrong"?
I have ford SYNC (microsoft SYNC), and it's fucking brilliant.
I never touch my stereo, between the 4 steering wheel controls (volume,next/prev,voice command,hang up) and the frankly kick-ass voice control I just never need to.
I never have had it misdial, only very occasionally does it have trouble when I ask for a specific album (and then only when it's not a native language name) and generally just had it be all sorts of awesome all the time.
So no, Apple can sit this one out (and this is coming from someone who's entire computing existence is apple, I own the iphone/ipad/appletv/macbook/imac). Microsoft has done a great job already.
But then would the response from apple be "You are just driving wrong"?
"You're driving it wrong"
Ford Sync is great.
They realize that your car is around a lot longer than your phone so in a lot of ways your smartphone is really the brains, the car is just the interface. The voice works surprisingly well. They have all kinds of API's that let apps on your phone be controlled by your voice via the Sync. I know that Microsoft designed it, but I like it a lot. 2011 Ford Fusion SE is the car I have.
K Man
Auto manufacturers have very little to gain from good sound in cars, or keeping up with hot stuff in the industry. They're not organized to be able to update and upgrade on a continual basis because you need a car for transporatation, and them putting hundreds of thousands of man hours a year into an constantly updated interface will not sell you another car. In an industry where a small plastic vent costs less than a dollar to make, and retails at $40 - and it only sold at retail - a 99c app or a $20 map add on is not something they feel is valuable.
Apple, OTOH, has a huge infrastructure built up around their iOS platform. With the right tweaks, they can turn your head unit into a combination nav, music, weather, traffic and internet hub. They're learning voice control - very possibly the best interface for a single driver. And, what better way to get you to use their cloud services than to get your car to sync with your library via the cloud.
If (and I say IF) they can figure out the whole "install" part of the picture - and Apple isn't really into the soldering-irons-and-screwdrivers crowd - they could very easily wrap up a large portion of the auto market if they play their cards right.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The head unit in my Hyundai Veloster is a Windows CE 6.0 mips based computer made by LG.
It's all right there, radio, satellite radio, navigation, an efficiency video game, and bluelink (an onstar clone). Integrates with my phone adequately, but could be better on that front.
With a small modification you can even play videos on the head unit, oh and without modification you can even hook up some game consoles to it.
Doctor Who already showed us what would happen if Apple was allowed in our cars...it was called ATMOS.
No Thanks
I don't like too many computers in my vehicles (I think 0 is a reasonable number), and I sure as hell don't want anything from Apple in there.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Navtec via manufacturer - $1200 navigation package plus $100/yr map update for once a year data through a dealership.
Navtec via iOS - $20-40 North American Maps and Google local search integration, $20/yr for subscription for quarterly map update subscription, delivered automatically.
Sorry, I'm pretty sure I know which one I'm gonna choose to have lock me in.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
just askin' ...
Personal automobiles are in the process of being de-prioritized as a mode of transport. If Apple is a forward-thinking company, they should understand that cars are a 20th century machine, not a growth market in the 21st.
Apple wants to control the total user experience. Can you imagine Apple letting a company as clueless as GM integrate Apple products into their cars? They would eventually produce the iVega. I can't see Apple allowing another company to have that much influence on their products' success.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
"It's clear that most of the auto companies that offer more than a car stereo want to lock you into their interface and services"
It's a good thing Apple never tries to do that ...
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
"Don't drive it that way."
The CB App. What's your 20?
How is this insightful? Funny? Yes. Insightful? No.
If like the rest of their devices it is totally useless after 2 years, then no thanks!
I was just thinking this on the drive into work today.
Would be nice to listen to the same radio station all the way, but reception cuts out half way up. My car is new enough to have an iPod interface, but new enough to not support an iPhone or similar device with in-dashboard controls.
A newer interface would allow me to stream a radio station through my phone (and maybe use google maps from the phone) via the car controls.
How about an API that allows this to be done with any phone via USB? No need for locking.
And (obviously???) no critical systems controlled by the phone.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
We've got an app for that!
"Why Apple's Next Evolution Should Be In Your Car"
--
Shut up, you American. You Americans, all you do is talk, and talk, and say "let me tell you something" and "I just wanna say." Well, you're dead now, so shut up.
I'd like to see the dock connector updated so that the entire iPhone display and touch interface could be used on the car's in-dash display, reformatted and enlarged if necessary to fit the screen's native display resolution and orientation, along with all the other expected integration like phone, audio and video.
Apple could license this interface to car makers for free and then help them create apps specific to the car, binding the carmaker to Apple and making consumers shop for iPhone integration specifically.
It would also get Apple closer to the point where the iPhone was really a portable computer that could be docked and then taken anywhere.
You think an Apple based package built into a vehicle will be less expensive? Really? Based on what evidence? Name one market Apple has entered where they have competed on price?
The bigger problem is no automaker is likely to give Apple the sort of total control over the entire vehicle they would insist upon. And I doubt they would want to enter the aftermarket business.
Democrat delenda est
What is really annoying are the navigation systems that cease to function while the car is moving. My car has that *feature*, and it renders the technology useless.
When I need a GPS, I prefer to use my phone over the built-in system because you can use it while moving. Needless to say, my next car will not have built-in navigation.
Listen I really hope that the infotainment systems in cars begin to integrate better with our portable devices. But i sure as hell hope it's not Apple leading the way, because everything will be patented and require iDevices, iAPIs, iConnections, and on their own proprietary iTooth network.
The tech companies and car companies need to come out with an OPEN standard that is free from all this patented bullshit. It shouldn't matter if I have an iPhone and Chevy or a Android and Ford. Everything should be inter-operable. And as we know, if Apple is leading the way, it'll be a cold day in hell for it to be inter-operable.
Sometimes I forget that there are still people who have to spend hours in their car every day. What a horrible way to live. And why? Because your employer is invested in you having as little time to yourself as possible where you could be productive in any way that does not benefit the corporation.
And one of the current US political parties absolutely hates the idea of public transportation, so fuck you, Mr Employee. And no, those nice houses walking distance from the job aren't for you, they're for upper management. You better be grateful you've got a job because we could make it go away just like that [snaps fingers}.
You really don't have to take it, you know. You don't have to live that way. You think you do, but you don't.
You are welcome on my lawn.
When Apple's iPhones had bad reception because the users held it a certain way, Job's only reply was 'don't hold it that way'. Do I really want this approach to apply to my "i-vehicle" when driving and my life is at stake?
Navtec via manufacturer - $1200 navigation package plus $100/yr map update for once a year data through a dealership.
Navtec via iOS - $20-40 North American Maps and Google local search integration, $20/yr for subscription for quarterly map update subscription, delivered automatically.
The auto manufacturer provides the hardware. To be fair you need to add in the cost of an iPad to the Apple total.
For my car, all nav system updates are free. My last one included a free car wash and a free loaner for the day. You're paying $20 more for less service.
You won't believe who is already *far* down that path
I've thought many times that there must be a huge, untapped market for a line of electronics for grown ups. Try searching for a shelf stereo system, for example. Most of it is garish crap, burdened with all kinds of obscure functionality most people will never use. There are systems more minimal and adult-looking, but "minimialist" doesn't mean "user-friendly." What I'm talking about is a system that looks nice, is of relatively good quality, and for which you never need to read the manual. It's just obvious how to work it.
Car stereos are the same way. They almost all sacrifice function for style.
And alarm clocks. How about an alarm clock with a panel that you flip open, and behind it is a simple, phone style number pad. To set alarm 1, you press
[Set Alarm 1] - [7] - [3] - [0] - [am] - [Enter], then turn a little analog dial to set the volume, and flip the panel closed.
Done.
lllll Alaska Jack
I've been saying this exact same thing for a long time now!
Year after year, we see enthusiasts trying to shoehorn computer gear into their vehicles in creative ways, to essentially check off the same old "want list" we've always had -- yet auto makers never seem to really catch on. (And before you say "What about Ford Sync?", I'd argue all they did was hand things over to Microsoft after exhibiting absolutely NO clue about what the public wanted in a car stereo or modernized dashboard up to that point. Even at that, older versions of Sync can't perform any of the things possible in the later generations, and there's no easy upgrade path. Ford's desired solution is "Trade that vehicle in for a NEW one!")
All things considered? I think the most promising system right now may be Cadillac's CUE, which integrates a heads-up display, fully digital dashboard AND capacitive touch-screen panel. (http://www.cadillac.com/cadillac_cue.html) Once again though, it's a big unknown if buyers of a new Cadillac with this system will have something upgradable/expandable throughout the life of their car, or if it'll just get dropped with the next vehicle re-styling that comes along, as they've done before? I have a 2011 CTS Coupe myself, and the "infotainment" system in it is "decentish" at best. It has a few things going for it that are rather unique, including the ability to decode Dolby DTS surround sound on DVD audio discs. It's tough finding content to play that's in Dolby DTS surround format, but it exists. (Amazon is your friend in that search.) The GPS has a nice level of integration too, including it automatically offering to direct you to the closest filling station when your low fuel light comes on. But on the downside? GPS map updates cost upwards of $200 every time you want to buy a new one, and they're only released once per year (not quarterly as you could get for a cheap, portable unit!). Bluetooth audio streaming is non-existent too. Oh, and the voice recognition system is so poor, even the salesman showing me the car tried to discourage me from trying it out during his demo!
One of the things I've always wanted (but automakers seem to think buyers are too dumb to use?) is integration with the OBDII diagnostics computer. If my car gets one of those "check engine lights", I want to see details of what the code is and what it means on my touchscreen! I'd also like the ability to monitor my choice of parameters on virtual gauges on the screen, such as air/fuel mixture or spark timing.
The market is ripe for Apple to swoop in with a better solution.... They're already pretty much the king of touchscreen devices right now, and know a thing or two about distribution of music and video content.
Apple's speciality is in seamless UI's. While people seem to like this for mobile phones and tablets, it's not the right solution for a car. Cars require tactile interfaces so that they can be navigated using touch while the driver keeps his eyes on the road. Apple has the potential to bypass this concern using Siri, but that comes with additional problems.
Siri and the maps used by Apple for GPS navigation are both delivered via cellular connection, which would imply that a driver would lose all voice recognition while driving outside the range of cellphone towers--e.g. through the mountains. The GPS navigation is a similar problem. Since the navigation data is delivered via cellular data, you would lose navigation in the mountains.
Much as I hate to admit it, I would prefer the Microsoft self-contained automotive voice recognition system to getting Apple iCars. Ford has demonstrated those in the past. I've also seen a reasonable implementation (non-Microsoft) on an Acura about five years ago. I'm not sure that this is a market where we should care about fragmentation. Just don't buy a car with a UI you don't like.
Whereas the Microsoft version will just take you crashing off a cliff and burst into flames when you start the car -- skipping directly to death. ;-)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Uh huh. So if Apple locked you into THEIR interface and services it would be insanely great and you would be lining up for it.
If our ONLY two choices are (1) being locked into a shitty interface provided by Ford/Honda/etc, or (2) being locked into an awesome (or at least better) interface provided be Apple....well, I pick the later.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
>"offer more than a car stereo want to lock you into their interface and services"
>"The answer in one word: iCar."
Yeah right. Because Apple is a paragon of openness and anti-lockin combined with low prices and choice! No thanks.
How about at least AndroidCar? Or maybe LinuxCar. Perhaps then at least other manufacturers can be involved.
Why can someone think that Apple *should* do something in the cars ?
There are excellent in-car media and stereo systems out there, it all depends on what automaker you're looking at. The Japanese generally pack their cars full of buttons in an attempt to account for every little function. Americans are decent, but it depends on the car and the automaker. They generally suffer from cost-cutting measures and insufficient thinking about how a driver interacts with the car. It's worse when the automaker goes through third-party vendors for their hardware. Too many of those companies are has-beens incapable of innovating putting no thought whatsoever into their designs. Then you've got the Europeans who do put a lot of thought into driver interaction but you still run the risk of ending up with a system that's seriously over-designed and confusing.
I've come across some very well-designed systems. The most successful, in my opinion, don't require you to look away from the road very long, if at all, and are easy to learn. The problem is that as functionality gets deeper inevitable it gets more involved interacting with that stuff, demanding more attention from the driver. Tactile feedback is essential, making touchscreens in cars a huge mistake.
My big annoyance with this article is the suggestion that Apple is a master of user interface design. As far as I'm concerned that's a myth. Their interfaces manage to be elegant only because they're one of the few companies willing to sacrifice functionality for the sake of usability. So how would they approach a car? Would they decide that a handful of functions are all we need and build a single distracting control interface around that? Everything else would, annoyingly, require several more steps than they would have under traditional systems.
But the fact is that whenever Apple is forced to implemented added functionality their applications become just as cumbersome and unintuitive as any other bit of comparable software out there. Look at iTunes, or iWork or even iOS. iOS is no more intuitive than Android or Windows Phone 7. People will only feel that way about it because it's what they're familiar with.
The integration of software and hardware is where Apple excels. But they don't make cars so they lose that edge in the automotive space.
google will do it before apple
I bet you cried like he was your daddy when Steve Jobs died, didn't you?
This issue isn't resolvable by Apple, it is resolvable with a true heads-up display and voice control interface that actually works. The technology for the former is long since there -- it just needs to be implemented. The technology for the latter is there but sucks. All we need is a car that understands you when you say "find 3218 Oak Lane and show me how to get there". What we've got is Garmin or the Prius navigator and silly keyboarding displays that you can't use while driving and that are a true pain to navigate all by themselves. A shame, really -- none of this is all that difficult to design, and we have plenty of cycles, enough to implement quite sophisticated interfaces. But even iPods don't understand me when I say "Play `The Soft Parade' album, you moron" to them.
Truly tragic. We will perfect the touchscreen interface and have near-universal pad-based computing and -- just like that -- it will all be obsolete when some bright lad or lady realizes that it is so very much simpler to tell something what to do than to key it in on integrated pad keyboards with "keys" the size of pencil erasers drawn on a touch screen, maybe.
And then, on to a true neural interface. Why should I have to even say anything? Why not just think it?
rgb
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
The article expresses the same lament that car buyers have had since the invention of the automobile, every manufacturer does things differently. A car is the ultimate closed ecosystem. Each manufacturer has unique parts, control layouts, maintenance codes, etc. This is done on purpose to generate additional cash flows from maintenance and repairs.
As for integrating the car entertainment and video systems, I recently bought a Kenwood DNX9990HD eXcelon 2-DIN Multimedia DVD Receiver With Navigation/Bluetooth/HD Radio which I am installing this weekend. It has full integration support for my iPod/iPhone/iPad, backup camera, external video, USB storage, and external audio. It also has built-in voice controls to control the various functions. The point is that, despite the opinion expressed, aftermarket integrated solutions do exist.
and you can only go the dealer for oil changes and more. With price being a lot higher then jiff lube and any other 3rd part shop.
Also you must put premium in.
How is this insightful? Funny? Yes. Insightful? No.
"Insightful" gives a better boost to Karma than "Funny" so a lot of mods use "Insightful" in its place.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Although truth can be stranger than fiction, it's rarely funnier than fiction. Since the comment reeks more of truth and reality than of fiction, I think I'm going with 'Insightful' -- but just because there's no 'Truth' mod.
Yup. I recently bought a car with a double DIN head unit, and would love to trade it out with something that has the radio, GPS plus weather maps, OBD II, preferably XM, preferably comparative gas station search, and either AUX or USB to plug in my phone for music. My choices are most of these with a crappy interface for $1500 plus, or roll my own with about $800 in hardware and a lot of time. I'd love for Apple to jump into the aftermarket in car PC space. Thing is, it's probably too small of a market for them to address.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
Siri: driving out side of the USA will lead to BIG data roaming fees.
Name one market Apple has entered where they have competed on price?
Tablets. There are others that have undercut the iPad since but the iPad itself was aggressively priced when introduced (and honestly I think it's reasonable for the specifications now). (Don't have one or plan to get one myself as there's more to life than pricing.)
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
I'm on my 4th head unit in my 1997 accord, its a lower end pioneer unit from early 2009.. no fancy graphical EQ or any of that, just a simple OLED screen with 3 lines of text. However, it has dual USB inputs, plus a seperate IPod connection, bluetooth a2dp audio and hands-free calling.
The majority of new cars these days still don't have all of those features, and the ones that do you end up paying gobs of cash for them tied to some stupid navigation unit which is useless compared to google maps (my headunit was $250 installed). Actually I have never seen any factory unit that has dual usb inputs, which is particularly nice since I have a 32gb flash drive that I leave in one slot all the time, and then the other I use for a smaller flash drive where I rotate the music more frequently.
It sucks that new cars all have proprietary head units which cannot be replaced, or if they can.. not easily.
It's going to be a killer app!
Dumb bastards...
no, they'll say you were holding the steering wheel the wrong way
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Microsoft's already there. It's known as Ford's MyTouch and Sync.
I don't need anything changing in the interface of my car. what i need is a better, cleaner, less expensive power source for it.
Really? I see most tablets are horribly overpriced and the only reason most vendors seem to be making them is the belief that they too can capture some of that sweet sweet insanely great Apple style profit margin.
Compare the original iPad to a laptop of the same period.
Apple give you a small 1024x768 display with a touch interface, a pokey ARM CPU and a paultry 256MB of RAM. You got WiFi and BT and perhaps (if you hold your ankles for an upfront and monthly charge) 3G. For that you paid a lot. The base unit was either $499 or $599, can't remember now. And they hosed you hard for a little more flash and you paid, because like all the iProducts there isn't an SD slot to or USB host port add your own later.
Now compare to any A brand notebook of the period selling for a similar price. You would have got a larger display, much faster CPU, a crapload more RAM. and at least twice the battery capacity. The notebook will also have a more complicated housing with a hinged display and a keyboard/pointer. The notebook would probably have had a much larger spinning hard drive vs the flash in the iPad but there are advantages to both so lets not award a win to either. And of course that larger battery still wouldn't have driven the Intel Inside nearly as long.... We are constantly told that an ARM solution is cheaper and consumes less power, which is supposed to compensate for the lower performance. Somehow tablets are getting half of that equation wrong by being more expensive.
Hell, the top of the line iPad was over $1000 which made it more expensive than the bottom of the line Apple notebook, which also beat the snot out of the iPad performance and spec wise.
Democrat delenda est
I just want a slot in the dash I can insert my iPhone and have the touchscreen on my in-dash display, with audio integrated with the stereo and the steering wheel controls.
Spot on; I had a rant / post about this back in 2009 (that I had drafted years earlier)... hoping Apple would take over this market:
http://tronsterhartley.blogspot.com/2009/01/starting-to-clean-out-my-many-drafts-of.html
While it doesn't specifically have to be Apple, it seems that none of the established brands really understand what consumers need in a great car stereo. The Alpine model I mention in the above post included: a remote? Required holding a button for a few seconds to active a feature... in a car Has no way to fast scroll mp3 artists or songs, etc....
The only reason I settled on it was because it could connect to my iPod and play MP3s without a skip between the track. This was after calling up another manufacturer about their models of MP3 playing stereos and being told that gapless playback was "impossible". Thank you business man; you know jack about tech, but it doesn't matter because your company doesn't make a car stereo with a killer feature I need. (Although I could change the color of buttons; which was fun for about 1 day and I haven't touched since.)
I hate Apple's lock-in but vote for their products with my money because they really do care about design beyond what is in a device. It makes all the difference in the world when you have a product that "feels" right. Check out the Nest Thermostat, or Dyson Vacuums to see other companies who also match form and functionality.
Whining iHater. Oh, that's right, you're waiting for Apple to come out with something first
Oh, you mean like Newton, Lisa, Apple III, eWorld, Apple TV...Any of those ring a bell?
Like we don't have enough self-righteous hybrid owners sniffing their own farts, we now need to bring Apple fanboy mentality into this too?
Bow before me, for I am root.
Since that was half the point of this story and all.
Why - were they holding a gun to your head to force you to buy an iPod instead of a Zune, or an iPhone instead of an Android?
Fuck you for posting this rotting tub of shit.
As if dealing with that dumb fucking iPod connector in my ride wasn't enough of a hassle.
I'm fine with a little bit of kludginess in my UI if I can keep Apple's hands out of my pocket.
Funny, there are no apples on fruit machines...
Cherry cherry cherry ... ... .. oh, wait ....
grapes grapes grapes
melon melon melon
lemon lemon lemon
You mean the same way Apple locked the Zune and Android into using Apple's USB interface, and you into only buying music from the iTunes store?
Based on the numbers the poster already gave you. Really.
Really, you're going to try to move the goalposts after he just answered your question of when Apple has competed on price?
Apple and BMW were working on this:
http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/20/bmw-releases-ipad-and-ipod-out-integration/
Why Apple's Next Revolution Should Be In Your Car
Excellent, I already Drive Different! Although I'm sometimes told I'm holding it wrong (the steering wheel wrong). Can I get my car equipped with free Apple rubber numbers? I wonder if Apple will start a campaign to get me to "switch" from my Ford Sync-powered vehicle?
So your two examples are a sci-fi TV show, and an OS that works well on servers but is an absolute failure on the desktop because its "do one thing well" mentality creates fragmentation and doesn't fit the needs or expectations of average users.
So you're saying that Apple in an average person's car would work better than Linux on an average user's desktop because it would "fit the needs or expectations of average users"?
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
How, then, do you explain their success, unless you assume everyone but you is a fool?
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
No Apple fan here, but... What if Apple would presents something like the Renault Twizy? Using the Apple's "cool factor" to promote a new kind of mobility could be an interesting phenomenon. A small, light, electric quasi-car, that could me more than enough for a lot of commuters. But I thought about this with Jobs at the helm; now with Tim Cook - or, anyone else non-Jobs - I think it will be even more improbable than before. Just saying.
SeqBox
Not only that, but the people working at the Apple iCar dealership will be a bunch of pretentious jerks.
Car companies think they're bleeding edge when they charge you $1,200 for a 40GB MP3 player or $2,500 for an 11" TV screen attached to a DVD player. I am sure there's a few morons who will need to be the first on their block with an iPhone built into their car but soon it will be apparent that it's overpriced and impossible to upgrade.
If Microsoft made cars
At a recent COMDEX, Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 miles to the gallon." In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn, would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought "Car95" or "CarNT." But then you would have to buy more seats.
6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would only run on five per cent of the roads.
7. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single "general car default" warning light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off.
10. Occasionally for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grab hold of the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need them nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Everytime GM introduced a new model car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You'd press the "start" button to shut off the engine.
From the article:
"Ford and Microsoft have done a lot of marketing for their joint Sync car stereo system, but after using it on a Focus, let me tell you it's the equivalent of DOS in a Windows 7 world, composed of nine buttons whose purpose is utterly unclear, unintuitive controls, and inconsistent operation with my smartphone. For example, it doesn't work with my smartphone's navigation app and won't play back the driving instructions through its speakers, though it passes through my music. My five-year-old midprice Sony car stereo does all of that better. For a device aimed at young people, Sync's clueless design makes you feel that you should be using eight-track tapes."
I have a 2011 Ford Fusion with Sync and Navigation, and honestly, I love the set up, and it doesn't feel dated at all. It's touch screen, voice activated, and I can customize whether or not to have voice prompts or tones for the navigation portion. I honestly don't know why he'd want the instructions to go back to his phone, because I know I wouldn't be able to hear my phone over my car stereo. I also know that 2012+ versions of Sync offer more interaction with smartphones than mine does, although I can't comment on that right now because I've been deployed and my wife's vehicle is the one with the newer version of Sync.
Either way, when someone finds a version of DOS that has touch screen capabilities and voice activation, let me know.
"There are 10 types of people in this world--Those that understand binary, and those that do not..."
Fuck 'em.
That's right, I said "Fuck Apple". Deal with it, bitches.
It'll be a touch windscreen. No steering wheel, no gas, no brake, no turn indicators, cruise controls, no radio/CD knobs, no door handles, no door locks, no side window controls.
With everyone scrabbling at their windows, you won't be able to tell if they are trying to drive, trying to turn on the radio, or trying to escape.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Cars can have a fairly long life when compared to electronic gadgets. I still drive a 1972 car, but I would not have much use for a 40 year old computer except as a display object. An old car can have substantial value, but old electronics are considered junk. As a result, the more computer stuff that is fitted to an automobile, the worse its long-term usefulness and resale value becomes. More computer hardware means quicker obsolescence.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
No iPhone signal? You're holding it wrong. ... well, you get the idea.
iPad overheating? You're placing it wrong.
iCar playing up? You're
"Insightful" gives a better boost to Karma than "Funny" so a lot of mods use "Insightful" in its place.
They shouldn't. It changes the tone of the post. If the comedians really want to earn a karma point they should say something insightful.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Th problem with your solution is that it is only built in, but not integrated. Especially GPS is in serious need of some standardisation so that the device can take advantage of rotational information from the wheels (AFAIK from the ABS sensors). Combined with magnetic compass data, this allows a GPS to continue showing position, even when it cannot see the required satellites (typically in a tunnel).
If a government (EU, USA, wherever) *really* wanted to promote competition, they should mandate a standard connector which provides all the relevant signals and power lines. Ditto for car stereos, but that may exist already (haven't been behind a dashboard in years - I just note that in-car GPS simply remains ludicrously expense for what it is).
Insert
Seems to depend greatly on the manufacturer. I was looking at Volvos not long ago. They seem like great cars, except for the nav systems, which are a total disaster. The technology seems to be right out of 2004; the systems cost around $2000 extra (they frequently try to bundle them with a nicer stereo to get people to buy them), and if you get the nav system, they take up most of your glove box to install a (get this) DVD player, which is only used for installing updates to the system. Apparently they've never heard of flash memory. The updates cost several hundred dollars each, if you choose to buy them, or you can use old maps. And again, the technology of the system itself is right out of the early 2000s; you're much better off getting a TomTom or Garmin for $300, or heck, just use your Android phone and Google's navigator for free.
Really? I see most tablets are horribly overpriced
They provide lots of value for some people. Not everyone is you.
Apple give you a small 1024x768 display with a touch interface, a pokey ARM CPU and a paultry 256MB of RAM.
None of that is true when the OS is built for the device. Even the first iPad did NOT feel pokey, and you almost never noticed the small amount of RAM. The thing is despite those "worse" specs it felt much faster than any low end (and some high end) laptops.
Hell, the top of the line iPad was over $1000
Wrong. Then as now, the most you can spend on an iPad is $829 (64GB WiFi/LTE).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
MINI has a GREAT system (theoretically) with MINI Connected.
The way it works is, you get a screen in your vehicle and it also comes with a control knob, to make it easier to adjust things while driving without taking eyes of the road. The know can turn or be used like a small joystick.
Then the system itself has a library that runs on the phone, and basically runs the app display on the car screen and all controls though that knob. MINI has their own software but also some third party integration, like with Pandora...
So the idea is awesome but they are being very tight in controlling what apps can go on the car. Basically not just anyway can build an app that uses that main screen and control knob. If they would just let that go any give anyone the API that wanted it they would have the premiere application for in-car mobile attachment today - again mainly because anything with connected will also have that control knob, and you get to use the main car display from the application.
What that essentially means is that nothing really is great with the system as there are too few apps that make use of it, so I don't use it much.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So you buy today cool car which has iPad integrated all over, how you will feel it after 10 years? Or do we in future scrap car after 2-3 years of use? That said got quite new Jetta with simplest possible radio module with black&white UI interface and its doing it job properly. It even got 3.5mm AUX in, where I can plug in anything from C cassette Walkman to Android Phone with Spotify. Sure its not so stylish&trendy but its easier change phones and software than whole car. I might be old fashioned but I use car primaly for driving.
When you have an mp3 player and a GPS in your phone there is no need to have one in your car too.
I see you've just pulled numbers out of your ass.
The most expensive iPad was *never* over $1000, even at launch.
There was a lot of talk in the run up to the announcement that it would be hugely expensive and "well over $1000 because it's Apple" only for all those predictions being quietly swept under the carpet when the actual prices were announced.
Then, of course, everyone started on how the iPad (the first gen) would be quickly destroyed by the soon-to-come "cheaper", "faster", "better" Android tablets... and we're still waiting, three generations on. The closest I ever saw was the Transformer, which was $100 cheaper than the iPad 2 and comparable to it, only for the retina iPad to come out and leave everyone trying to catch up again.
It's not often Apple competes on price, but in the tablet market they really are, and have since the launch of the original iPad.
This kind of answer deserves a +5 funny guys, where's the slashdot of old?
Yes, the market is ripe for revolution, but it won't happen unless Apple convinces the car makers to let them do it, or build their own car.
The percentage of people who replace factory stereos today is the lowest it's ever been, and that's because the quality and features included in factory stereos has never been higher. Also thanks to integration game, most factory stereos do more than just play music. If you remove your factory stereo you might lose other important features in the process.
Unless Apple makes a move to offer a scalable, mufti-function OEM solution that car makers can customize and ship with pride, the best that's going to happen is people will continue to use the iPod/iPhone integration already included in many factory decks.
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Clearly I haven't been looking at flashy enough cars.
Companies like Apple and Netflix and Hulu are still trying to work out the advertising and licensing associated with making everything available on an internet based platform. Apple's the closest to having it all, but there's still a lot they're missing and you have to pay on a per show basis (thought there's no advertising, so that's a plus). Once you can get it all, Apple and other TV media device manufacturers will have an easy time getting that market away from idiots like Time Warner and Motorola who wouldn't know a good user experience from their own assholes.
My mom is a midwife and is forever complaining about the electronic medical record system they use here. At her previous practice they used OSCAR, which is an open-source EMR system that actually seemed to be okay.
The current system is web-based, and it works okay on a 1920x1200 screen but when you downsize to a 1366x768 laptop or 1024x768 tablet it sucks royally to the point where some fields are effectively unreadable. It's so bad that my mom refuses to use it for reasons of patient safety. (There has already been an incident directly attributable to the EMR shortcomings.)
Let's see Google's autonomous driving technology combined with an Apple interface. Can you imagine a car that does most of the grunt work of driving for you, with the type of friendly controls that Apple is well known for? Combine this with an extremely efficient drive-train and let the "car of the future" hype begin. Obviously, they'd need one or more automakers to partner on this. I'm not getting behind the wheel of a car built ground-up by a new automaker, even if they are flush with cash and talent like Apple and/or Google. Will we see fans lining up overnight at car dealerships in a few years?
"Insightful" gives a better boost to Karma than "Funny" so a lot of mods use "Insightful" in its place.
They shouldn't. It changes the tone of the post. If the comedians really want to earn a karma point they should say something insightful.
I think your sig agrees.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Ill pass on any more electronics in my car. I'm already protesting by going retro. ( think carb, manual steering, etc )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Of course. 'Right' will be added in Car gen. 2, you silly fanboi. Of course, Car gen 1 hardware is not compatible with newer firmware so, pbbbbbbt jog-on! Buy yourself a new car.
Apple will never go in my car. There is not one tiny milligram of benevolence in anything Apple does. It's not about the consumer, it's about their pocketbook. Steve Jobs was no prophet. He doesn't deserve a book, nor a movie, compared to hundreds of other people on or who have left this earth who have actually done something to benefit mankind. Apple is all about 'control' and Apple will never control my car.
they said that about the living room a few years ago, what happened there?
More proof that the Fandroids are the only ones living under a RDF, that's what happened. Taking Apple to charge over an opinion piece on what Apple should do? Declaring some rumors a promise by Apple? You guys should seek help.
still have to set it against the inconvenience of having to go to the dealer and leave your car.. ideally, this stuff should be updatable via flashdrive and 5 minutes of your time.
BlackBerry already demoed a car last year running QNX.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Thing is apple wouldn't want you seeing any of those technical attributes.. They're not for user consumption.. if it breaks, bring it to your apple dealer where you'll be charged a fee to make it go away.
Sorry state of vehicle electronics? No shit, Sherlock!
Anyone remember the infamous BMW iDrive fiasco, with the infuriating fiddler wheel in the console seemingly mocking while you vainly tried to navigate the thing and the car at the same time? Seemed that Hans & Fritz decided to play a very cruel trick on das dumben Amerikaner there...
Then, Windows for Cars debuted by Ford and ilk. Made me leery that the term "blue screen of death" became suddenly too real a possibility!
Does the car come with bumpers?
Or do you have to buy that as an accessory?
well, at least she didn't cite the centipod clause in the EULA...
First off, you have two different lifespans and innovation rates at work. Today's cars can last 15 years without a major repair (think 150-175K miles), and likely many of them will see 20 years and still be in relatively good working order (250K miles). In contrast, smartphones didn't exist 15 or 20 years ago in anything remotely resembling their current incantation. I can only imagine what they will look like in another 15 or 20 years. But it's entirely possible that if I bought a car today, I (or my children, or someone else who I sold it to) will be driving it in 15 years. That's something on the order of 5-7 generations of improvements and enhancements to smartphones. Tying a smartphone to an automobile beyond very simple interfaces (headphone jack) ties an anchor on the smartphone market when it's innovating at a pretty fast clip -- designers of smartphones would by necessity need to keep compatibility with 5-7 year old cars, which may tie them into old standards that could mean keeping things around that add bulkiness, cost and take away space for other features. Think: floppy drive, parallel port, serial port, VGA connections.
I also don't want Apple near anything that's supposed to last as long as a car. Their business model is heavily dependent on rapid turnover, rapid innovation, agile response to market demands and the ability to cut off legacy technology on their whim (PowerPC vs Intel, different display and interconnect technologies, killing of the XServe, etc). This has been demonstrated to be a fantastic business model for the business they are in, but it's in marked contrast to the automotive space, where people tend to put things like safety, reliability and longevity higher up on the list than the latest shiny thing. And they get really pissed when something breaks in an otherwise perfectly running automobile and there's no way to fix it because the part is unavailable.
Imagine if you had a perfectly running 7 year old car and you couldn't upgrade your phone because it wouldn't work with your car, and it was the device that played music, was your nav device and performed some other functions? A phone upgrade would end up costing you tens of thousands of dollars, and that's pretty ridiculous.
Also, from the article:
"most of the auto companies that offer more than a car stereo want to lock you into their interface and services"
Is he unfamiliar with Apple's approach to doing business?
I have been working on the media and navigation software for high-end cars like BMW and Audi for a few years now. Quite often, I feel shit scared even thinking about the possibility of Apple jumping into the In-Vehicle Infotainment segment. If and when it happens, it could be end of the road for established players like the company I work for. There is no way we can hold a candle to Apple's design und innovation.
The $1000 rumor was for a "full" OS X tablet, though, since "squeezing a desktop OS onto a slab" had been the standard for the more expensive Windows tablets up until then.
Stand by while a flood the car with a deadly neurotoxin like that time i flooded the enrichment center with a deadly neurotoxin.
Sync works wonderfully in my 2010 Fusion. Voice commanded, with real control buttons that can be distinguished by feel alone right on the steering wheel.
Heh. Actually that comment *was* Insightful.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Drive different.
-- Cheers!
What we need most is a standard interface which we are seeing some of. most important, a universal audio input jack in every factory car. Then controls standard. and display connector. Bluetooth is ok if it works easier.
When did Apple invent the time machine?
http://www.androidauthority.com/android-powered-oem-car-stereo-68660/
They exist. They just need refinement and to be made available from the manufacturers.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?