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What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?

jfruh writes "Pundits have been gleefully predicting the death of email for years, but nobody has really been able to explain what will replace email, especially for the medium's archiving capabilities that businesses and governments have come to rely on. It's possible that email won't vanish, but rather become invisible, one component of an integrated communication stream that will be transparent to users but still present — and useful — under the hood. It may turn out that Google's Wave, which was built on this idea, was just a bit ahead of its time."

314 comments

  1. If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It isn't going away soon.

    1. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by jakimfett · · Score: 2

      If anything, I think that email will lean more and more towards the gchat/facebook chat direction, where instead of having discrete "emails" we will have "conversations".

      --
      Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com
    2. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Jerry+Atrick · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My email has been 'a conversation' since the I first used it in the early 90's. Maybe with some of the more crippled web based services people are now suffering with it's not so obvious. Stuff like Gmail feels like a step back from the threaded clients I've used for all that time, too much missing or poorly implemented.

      When people ask whether email is going away I'm completely dumbfounded. It ain't broke and IMHO works better than the alternatives where absolute, instant response isn't needed. Mostly it's not noticeably slower anyway. When I desperately need a little more speed IM does a good imitation of a very poorly featured email exchange.

    3. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think you are right, though the key differentiator is not chatty vs. discrete messages. Chat done right can solve a number of problems that email has:

      - Email sucks as an archive. It's fine to store personal emails just for yourself, but when you dig deep and assess how much critical corporate knowledge is locked away in this multitude of personal archives of all employees, you'll be in for a shock. A Twitter-like chat system for corporations (like Yammer) will retain that knowledge for the right group, including its future members. I find that only a small part of my conversation is actually really private between me and someone else. Most of it will be relevant for my team, for another team, for a special interest group within the company, or for the company as a whole. In a corporate Twitter, asking for knowledge is automatically the same as sharing it, as soon as an answer is given. In email, any answer is lost for everyone but yourself.

      - Email is fine for communicating 1 to 1 or 1 to many, but it is a poor vehicle for many-to-many conversations. Chat systems (again citing Yammer as an example... by the way I have nothing to do with Yammer except that my current client uses it) can solve this by having private, ad-hoc chat groups in which participants can be invited or drop out as needed. New joiners will see a clear, linear history of what has already been discussed, instead of a steaming pile of replies-to-replies-to-replies in multiple sub-threads, all intertwined in a single email exchange.

      In our team, we've tried sticking to the rule that forbids the use of email for anything that will still be relevant one week from the day of sending. The idea is that any such messages belong to the corporate memory, which means email is out as a vehicle for storing it. Instead, people use Yammer or email links to documents stored in a central repository. It worked out quite well, both improving recall from our corporate memory, keeping everyone on the same page and aware of each others' work, and improving the quality of discussions by electronic means.
      But we too found that it is extremely hard to break the email habit. One thing that email still has going for it in the corporation is that everyone has it, and everyone is expected to read it several times a day. You might get told of for missing an important email, but being told off for missing an important discussion on some social media thingy? We're not quite there yet.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      In most organizations, the whole email reply chain exists so that workerbees can summon the higher authorities. "I'm gunna cc: my boss!" "Now you've done it, I'm cc:ing my boss' boss!". The bosses can then digest the conversation and come to a decision at their leisure. I have no idea how that would work with a chat/IM system.

      We've had good luck using Basecamp; it is essentially email except with a web interface to locate previous conversations, documents, etc.

    5. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope not. While I appreciate the potential of nearly instantaneous exchanges, I don't want that to become the expected norm. If someone communicates with me in the morning, unless I see "ASAP" in the communication, I feel free to reply when it's more convenient. I don't necessarily wish to chat -- if I did, I'd pick up the phone.

    6. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by jakimfett · · Score: 1

      I don't think email is going away any time soon, hence how I started my comment with "if anything". I definitely agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality (although not if it's stifling innovation...fine line you have to walk with this one).

      --
      Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com
    7. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Sancho · · Score: 3, Insightful

      See, I think that email is broken, and that we've been patching it for over a decade to try to maintain usability. All the spam, all the broken clients, all the broken servers, all the phishing...it was built when there was a great deal of trust between providers, and when that trust was broken, email was broken.

    8. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      sounds like a user problem to me. I've had email since 1992 and never had any of those problems. noobs, gotta love 'em.

    9. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1
      I doubt that; email is pretty versatile, and sometimes the latency is a good thing. Consider the following:
      1. I can download some email, then read and reply to those emails when I do not have Internet access.
      2. Sometimes I need some time to think about how to answer a message, and instant messaging systems encourage quick answers (and people sometimes worry if you take too long to reply).
      3. Email does not require any particular kind of network or even infrastructure to send; there are places in the world where email is propagated on thumb drives carried by couriers, and only makes it to the Internet if the courier can find access somewhere.

      So yeah, I think email is going to stick around for a long time, probably forever, without merging with instant messaging. IM is great for low-latency conversations, but there is more to communication than that.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    10. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by jakimfett · · Score: 2

      ..I think email is going to stick around for a long time, probably forever, without merging with instant messaging. IM is great for low-latency conversations, but there is more to communication than that.

      I was agreeing with this...hence me saying "If anything". Apparently my attempts to express skepticism of the OP (Email is going away soon) were not properly communicated...

      --
      Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com
    11. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, that will work well... until Yammer, etc, falls out of use and all of a sudden your "corporate memory" is locked behind an inaccessible gateway or simply lost forever due to obsolescence. I'd rather setup my own corporate NNTP server if I was concerned about long-term storage and retrieval. If I was concerned about ease of use, a slick interface, and a heavy dose of cachet, I might choose... Yammer.

      And you're confusing the e-mail GUI with "e-mail". You're forgetting the large stack of protocols and software beneath it all, a stack that has proved remarkably resilient--yet sufficient--despite being quite obviously clunky for all the tasks put to it. If Yammer is to stick around it's will inevitably be forced by corporations to export its log of data as e-mail archives.

    12. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Junta · · Score: 1

      - Email sucks as an archive.

      I'm with you

      A Twitter-like chat system for corporations

      You lost me... I would hope/presume that Yammer doesn't carry over the imposed message length limitations (which has fascinating effects, but productivity wise it's pretty bad by itself and the stuff *worth* archiving would have to be hosted by... something else. I think a message board system would be more appropriate here. Of course, there is the challenge of managing the very complex access rights inherent in a lot of business communications if you want to adopt a 'twitter' or message board like system. Following that is how to gracefully integrate any internal system with partner companies.... Essentially, business confidentiality concerns severely restrict the scalability of better-than-email systems. Not talking about *hard* security concerns (email is usually not that, though public key integration is often a feature inherent), but avoiding content getting out idly to peers that may induce confusion or incite people one way or another unnecessarily.

      In our team, we've tried sticking to the rule that forbids the use of email for anything that will still be relevant one week from the day of sending

      Problem being there that sometimes you don't know whether that will be the case until a week from the day of sending.

      The idea is that any such messages belong to the corporate memory,

      I agree, but *often* the message devoid of the context provided by a human can lose a lot of its value. It's infeasible to assure that everything in the employee's head lands in the corporate memory independent of the employee (including everything to ad-hoc hallway conversations to background thougths formulated in the bathroom, human nature just is more complex in practice).

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    13. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chat, email, phone and snail mail all have their place in an office or really just in general. Email is great because you don't have to worry about if they're available at that moment but can send it out anyways and have notifying them off the todo list for the day. IM is quite useful when dealing with international workers or when you need a convenient transcript. It's also easier to make sure you know what they said and the other way around.

      And obviously, mail is one of the few ways available of getting physical items back and forth.

      I'm not sure what the fascination with killing off things that work is. Replacing them with something similar but better makes sense, but killing email is really premature at this stage. It itself managed to kill off the portion of mail that was just conveying information rather than requiring a physical item.

    14. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      It isn't going away at all unless people stop using electronics.

    15. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by hobarrera · · Score: 3, Informative

      With more and more servers and clients every day, broken ones tend to die faster. Except huge corporate sponsored ones (yes, I'm looking at you, Outlook!).
      In any case, if something DID replace email someday, you'd still have broken implementations, and many of the same issues. Maybe phishing may fade, though phising is really a user/educational problem, unrelated to the protocol.

    16. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Email is fine for communicating 1 to 1 or 1 to many, but it is a poor vehicle for many-to-many conversations.

      OR:

      Just setup a listserv! Problem solved!!

      Funny how that works.

      At least for the general case. other side conversations still suffer from the same problems.

      but whatever. the point of email isn't for someone elses ease of archival.

    17. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Well, borken clients and the phishing not a problem of email. (Are still broken servers out there? Altough http never was much better. I guess we'll have to live with it, whatever protocol we choose.)

      The one real bug of email is spam.

    18. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      My bad.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    19. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While that can all be terribly annoying, you aren't going to get rid of any of those problems simply by trying to run away from email. Those problems will simply follow you to the "next thing".

      "Legacy" communications channels are already plagued by similar problems.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    20. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Notes supported discussion groups back in the day.

      You don't have to re-invent Usenet or IRC while doing it poorly and in a highly proprietary manner. You can simply use the right tool for the job and not necessarily trap yourself with some outsourced flavor of the month that won't stand the test of time.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    21. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Emails will transform itself into slashdot entries, to be enjoyed by the masses.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    22. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Gerald · · Score: 4, Funny

      We're talking about real email that's connected to the outside world here, not your Compuserve account.

    23. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      It isn't going away soon.

      Email will never go away because there is no alternative.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    24. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      - Chat sucks as a archive. It is nothing but email without the subject line. Trying to find a link someone sent me via chat is impossible. At least with email you get at least one organization tag per message.

    25. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      Email sucks as an archive

      Saying that it sucks as an archive because there are multiple copies of the information seems like a poor argument to me. I find email to be a great archive of information. It's always there and easily accessible.

    26. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by devent · · Score: 2

      What the hell? A MDA (Mail Delivery Agent, like sendmail or postfix) can be configured to save a copy of each Email your employees send to a central archive. Also you have Mailing Lists for Many to Many communications.

      It's really funny how a bunch of "hippies" aka Open Source Developer (go to any project like Groovy, Apache projects, Linux, etc) can solve all the "disadvantages" of Email you complain about.

      Archive: just configure your MDA so send each email send or received to a central email archive server. Many-Many: just use mailing lists, in which you can create your private groups or anyone can join a group. Mailing Lists have also an archive feature, so older emails can be easily red.

      Email is not broken, it is one of the most convenient forms of communication online. That is why it is still around after 47 years and will be for at least more 20 or 50 years.

      My tip for you: use a real Email client and some real Email infrastructure, like postfix, and not Outlook Express.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    27. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are confusing email, the protocol, with email the communications medium. The protocol needs tightening to improve reliability and security but that has very little to do with the communications medium. Email is quite simply the electronic version of snail mail, a more formal means of communication where the sender and the recipient can keep a clear record of communications. In fact over time emails are becoming much more formal, and far more resembling old world letters than original rather informal email.

      Email will continue and thrive as people will continue to require formal track able communications. It is likely that the protocol will tighten up over time.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    28. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by edmicman · · Score: 2

      Granted I think I've only used Thunderbird or Outlook in recent history (with some Eudora thrown in) but I've never found the conversation threading in any of the desktop clients to be as good as Gmail's. Maybe I'm missing something...

    29. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of "falling out of use", I was curious what the currently recommended Win32 NNTP client is, and all the relevant web pages look like they're from 1998.

    30. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by mobets · · Score: 2

      Outlook/Exchange will keep track of branches in a chain of e-mails and present them in a tree format. I don't think gmail's stack does that as well.

      --

      It was me, I did it, I moved your cheese
    31. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno. I'd say the trust issue has been largely fixed with IM. Most networks won't deliver a message unless someone is explicitly whitelisted. I don't see how that's a problem.

    32. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Chances are your email doesn't need to be connected to the outside world. My favorite email account is my work one. It contains no spam. Just emails from my coworkers. It is a closed world of usefulness. Of course some people have to interface with customers or vendors. Maybe don't use email for that.

    33. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by TheEldest · · Score: 2

      That's not an e-mail problem, that's a communication problem. I get spam snail-mail that pretends to be important and from my insurance company. I get voicemails that start with, "This is an important message for ..."

      The problems with e-mail are the same problems we have with phones, texts, snail-mail and any other type of communication (photo-bombing, anyone?). Part of the population will always try to take advantage of the rest of the population. Ignore that then look at the rest.

      E-mail is a good form of communication because it lets you communicate non-immediatly. Some users may expect immediate responses but that's a user issue--not an e-mail issue.

      Why do these stories continue to come up? How about this one, "Moore's law will stop this year!". Yeah, never heard that one before...

    34. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nearly all the problems you describe can be solved by using a mailing list with a central archive. Virtually all open source projects use this approach, and it works wonderfully. Sadly, the most popular corporate groupware application (*cough*Exchange*cough*) never has and likely will never support this notion in a satisfactory fashion. I really can't imagine the productivity gains that could be had if more places would ditch their enterprise shovelware for mailman or similar.

    35. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by mcavic · · Score: 1

      Email won't go away. If anything, it'll be replaced with a different protocol that works basically the same way for the end user. There is no replacement for the idea of email that will do what email does. All you can do is add features.

    36. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by mcavic · · Score: 1

      Spam is inevitable when you let anyone in the world email you. So is phishing.

      Yes, the SMTP protocol is probably less than ideal. And yes, there is no perfect email client that I know of. But before we can replace it, we have to come up with a system that's truly better for everyone, and similar enough that there can be a transparent gateway from the old system to the new one.

    37. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't even bring up Notes. If people found out that a non-technical manager could build a network project tracker over his lunchhour back in 1994, the entire modern web development industry would be defunct.

      We have a good racket going, don't ruin it! And thank you IBM for burying this technology under so much enterprise trash.

    38. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In our team, we've tried sticking to the rule that forbids the use of email for anything that will still be relevant one week from the day of sending. The idea is that any such messages belong to the corporate memory, which means email is out as a vehicle for storing it.

      Huh? Surely the correct solution to this problem is just a per-team mailing list with an archive that's accessible to everyone on that team? Why would getting rid of SMTP make archiving stuff any easier?

    39. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's going to go away just like the fax machine did.

      Oh, wait that's right it didn't.

    40. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, borken clients and the phishing not a problem of email. (Are still broken servers out there? Altough http never was much better. I guess we'll have to live with it, whatever protocol we choose.)

      The one real bug of email is spam.

      I get spam in my snail-mailbox. I get spam phone calls. I get spam text messages, spam facebook posts, spam everything. Join a forum, you get spam. There's nothing unique about spam with email at all. Move to twitter, guess what? More spam. It's got nothing to do with email, it's not a bug. Fuck, I even get spam knocks on my front door, particularly during election season. I

    41. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      and if you really want to, you can just whitelist people with email too.
      but it becomes less useful then.

      "post xxxyyy" is just shitty hype for shills trying to market their own clone of the thing they're trying to declare dead.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    42. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      Project mailboxes that everyone can access work fine for keeping track of such communication.

    43. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by muckracer · · Score: 1

      > the trust issue has been largely fixed with IM. Most networks won't
      > deliver a message unless someone is explicitly whitelisted.

      The same thing could long have been done with e-mail. Especially if the messages were routinely GPG-signed. You could whitelist senders the first time you get a message from them.
      Everything else goes by default into the SPAM folder (unless sender's signature is known & verified via GPG intermediates).

      Why aren't we doing it? Because no freaking client I know of ever turned encryption and signing on by default! And that's why we have such a sorry state of affairs on so many levels, incl. spam and phishing, which is only an authentication issue.

    44. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      How will some other communication medium solve this? A messenger client, or pretty much any other communication clients can have the same problem you are talking about.

    45. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by rapidmax · · Score: 1

      - Email sucks as an archive.

      It's easy to archive. But to search a large set of mail for knowledge it is not that good. That has nothing to do with e-mail but with discrete messages. Knowledge should go to a document management system, Wiki or something similar.

      - Email is fine for communicating 1 to 1 or 1 to many, but it is a poor vehicle for many-to-many conversations.

      Set up a mailing list for your topics, then you have an excellent tool for many-to-many conversations. The problem is nobody outside of Open Source projects knows about mailing list managers (Sympa, mailman etc.). So you got ridiculous large to and cc headers and TOFU quote chains instead of a single list address and an archive.

      In our team, we've tried sticking to the rule that forbids the use of email for anything that will still be relevant one week from the day of sending.

      This is a good idea: Prefer documentation over e-mails. Only use the e-mail to announce that there is documentation, and where it is.

      ~Andy

    46. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Krneki · · Score: 1
      I checked this Yammer that you mention.

      You can't have the server in your organization. So it's ok only for small company that doesn't have a problem with having data hosted by a 3rd party.

      No go.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    47. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

      where instead of having discrete "emails" we will have "conversations".

      Oh, you mean like instead of saying "words", we have "conversations", too? Or how facebook conversations aren't made up of discrete messages? No, wait...

      Email is fine, and does everything supposed successors do... but it's an open protocol, that's no good; so bring on the sophistry and meaningless gibberish.

    48. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      Outlook/Exchange will keep track of branches in a chain of e-mails and present them in a tree format. I don't think gmail's stack does that as well.

      Not if your dumb-ass employer is still making you run Outlook 2003.

    49. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Hell not only ain't it broke, I'd say its never been better. All the major webmails now have excellent spam filters, they all have AV scanning so one doesn't have to warn users about email attachments anymore, they work on just about any device, are fast with most email arriving across services in a few minutes...what is supposed to be busted?

      The only thing I see "rising" is pointless bullshit quick posts like tweets which if those I've seen are any indication are about this level of sophistication so I don't see anything 'replacing" email, i just see other channels for bullshit that wouldn't be worth the time to even write an email over. hey if you just want to bullshit? I got no problem with that, I just see email as useful for things other than bullshitting which these "new things" seemed designed to do. Its like FB messaging, my GF gets stuff like who she knew in HS that broke their foot or had a kid, i get "Hey dude, what's a good heatsink?" in both cases not really worth an email for the quick BS that followed.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    50. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      There's another value as well: providing incriminating evidence.

      For instance,
      Boss: "Why is task A not completed yet?"
      Employee: "Your boss told me to drop A and do B. I pointed out that B was more important, but he told me to drop it and do B regardless."
      Boss's boss: "I did no such thing!"
      Employee: "Here's the email, cc'd to you, where I explained the importance of A, and here's his reply saying to drop it and do B instead."

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    51. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Funnily enough I'm seeing the same old spam and phishing bullshit only with a new medium...SMS. I'm having to give out the same speeches i USED to give out for email years ago, and frankly hadn't needed thanks to excellent spam filters, because for some reason people that wouldn't fall for it in an email WILL fall for it with SMS. If anyone wants details please see my journal and be sure to warn your less tech savvy friends/relatives because this latest one looks to be as bad as the old blaster style crap back in the day. I'm just amazed how many are falling for it but I guess with each new medium you have to give out the lessons all over again.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    52. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      If you fall for spam and phishing, you're a moron. As to broken servers and clients, I haven't see a single one broken in the fifteen years I've been using email.

    53. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Atzanteol · · Score: 2

      You can't forward the entire "conversation" to somebody, or include another person in your conversation easily when doing it in email. This is something Wave did nicely. You could add somebody to the entire thread and they can see everything from the start. With email you would have to start forwarding lots of individual emails around to bring new people up-to-speed (unless you do the horrid post-on-top thing most MS users do).

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    54. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      something that I use every single day and effectively communicate with dozens of people is not broken.

    55. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      My favorite email account is my work one. It contains no spam. Just emails from my coworkers.
      Wow. You really get no spam from coworkers? You don't get a daily flood of ImportantNoticesFrom{IT,your_boss, The_CEO, HR, HR, HR} ? You're either at a very small company or a very unusual one.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    56. Re:If my work inbox is any indication... by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      Well I am a consultant so I have two work email addresses. The one from my consuting firm contains nothing but work spam. The one from the client is all work related. Nothing from my boss, ceo, or hr. It works out good. I can basically ignore the consulting email. We are supposed to check it daily but I check it about once twice a month.

  2. That's funny by doston · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been emailing back and forth with multiple businesses today. It's not even time to talk about the death of snail mail yet, so why would it be time to talk about the death of SMTP? I say Bah!

    1. Re:That's funny by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're trying to market yet another social networking chat box, you need to convince people email is on the way out.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:That's funny by htnmmo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Very true.

      If it wasn't for email I wouldn't even know about all these new social networks that are constantly springing up.

    3. Re:That's funny by houghi · · Score: 1

      In our company we still use telegrams.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    4. Re:That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My thoughts, exactly. There might be a different PROTOCOL, but there will ALWAYS be email. I contact my friends via email (because not everything is appropriate for IM or TXT), every website requires it for validation and registration. And, most importantly, I go through hundreds (500-ish) of emails a day at work just for our engineering/dev aliases and dealing directly with our clients. Quite simply, without email, I wouldn't remain in contact with all the people I have where they're good friends, but not people I talk to every week or even every month. And what we do for a living would absolutely not work.

    5. Re:That's funny by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      In Argentina, to quite a job, you legally need to send a telegram. You can do it for free from any post office, but it still proves how far we are from email dying.

      I also worked an a very, VERY large software company (think "one of the largest 5"), and fax was still used there.

      Finally, a friend had an issue with his mac about 3 years ago, and needed to fax the original invoice to mac tech support to get the cd he needed.

    6. Re:That's funny by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      If it wasn't for email I wouldn't even know about all these new social networks that are constantly springing up.

      What?

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    7. Re:That's funny by AngryDeuce · · Score: 2

      If it wasn't for email I wouldn't even know about all these new social networks that are constantly springing up.

      What?

      I don't where your invites go, but all mine go to my email address. G+, Facebook, Twitter, Myspace, etc....how do you invite someone from outside the network to join? Their email address.

    8. Re:That's funny by AngryDeuce · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's funny how the fax machine just refuses to die to dignity. My sister-in-law works as a liason between group insurers and a major hospital in Wisconsin, and she faxes shit daily. Comes in handy whenever we need to fax something in our personal lives, which is about once every 3 years.

      I was under the impression that medical records were going electronic, but she tells me she still generates at least a ream of paper a week, and she works alongside hundreds of people. I can't even imagine what they were using before...

    9. Re:That's funny by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I'm still waiting to see what life is like in a post telephone world, a post newspaper world a post pen-and-paper world, a post horse world, a post rocks and sticks world, etc.

      I just want my paperless office and a flying car, is that too much to ask?

    10. Re:That's funny by witherstaff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You jest but can you even sign up for a social network WITHOUT some email verification?

    11. Re:That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fax is legally considered secure and verifiable in terms of sender, receiver, and delivery, and as of right now there isn't any replacement for that. Until there is, fax isn't going to go anywhere.

    12. Re:That's funny by captjc · · Score: 1

      Every time someone says we're becoming a paperless society, I get ten more forms to fill out.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    13. Re:That's funny by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      You should give proper credit to J Michael Straczynski for that line.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    14. Re:That's funny by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      Someone mod this up. It's pretty informative actually.

    15. Re:That's funny by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      I was under the impression that medical records were going electronic, but she tells me she still generates at least a ream of paper a week, and she works alongside hundreds of people. I can't even imagine what they were using before...

      Yes, medical records are going electronic. All they have to do is get hundreds of independent hospitals all running multiple systems and at different levels of connectivity to communicate with each other, sign proper HIPAA forms, make multi-million dollar capital upgrades to their vendor systems, set up vpns, agree to the same workflows, and then implement them. Then you have the admin people who are still stuck with faxing (and complaining about it) because faxes spit out a receipt showing that the other end got their message while electronic methods do not, at least not that will satisfy legal requirements where faxes will.

    16. Re:That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And DOUBLE Bah!

    17. Re:That's funny by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      So, what you're saying is, by the time they actually manage to adopt a standard, said standard will be ridiculously obsolete? Boy, we're fucking doomed...

    18. Re:That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You jest but can you even sign up for a social network WITHOUT some email verification?

      just because someone said something funny doesn't mean they're joking.

      and yes you can sign up for some social networks without email using openid, twitter or facebook

  3. As long as... by TJ_Phazerhacki · · Score: 1, Insightful
    As long as mid level execs feel that email is an instant, unlimited capacity communication channel that saves everything for ever but is still secure and reliable with 24/7 5-9's uptime, email will be around.

    I've been waiting to kill email for years, and they won't let me do it.

    --
    Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
    1. Re:As long as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why not just make it what they think it should be? sounds good to me.

    2. Re:As long as... by kwalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Before you can kill something useful, there must be a replacement. What do you suggest as a replacement?

      --
      ... And so it comes to this.
    3. Re:As long as... by qwerty+shrdlu · · Score: 5, Funny

      Kevin Costner could deliver your messages by hand.

      And seriously, things might have to go that wrong before email goes away.

    4. Re:As long as... by houghi · · Score: 1

      One thing that gets much better results then emailing each other is walking up to their desk (without sending a meeting request, mind you) and talk to them. Yes! In person.

      Instead of doing the 20 questions (meaning 20 mails) I have a conversation. Sometimes people are too far away (e.g. in another country) and then I call them. On the phone. We have a conversation of 5-15 minutes and we are BOTH clear what we want and need.

      Sure, sometimes we need a trail and one send an email like: According to our conversation, we agree such and this and that.

      In my personal life, I sms people to meet and we talk in person.

      So I suggest personal contact as a replacement with some web interface to keep records if you need it for any legal reason.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:As long as... by zlives · · Score: 1

      Keanu Reeves must bring my messages in his head

    6. Re:As long as... by Jerry+Atrick · · Score: 2

      ...and often the conversation is to organise meetings of groups of people. Groups that may first be simultaneously available at the time you arrange. That's true even in offices. I'll agree that automatically picking email for every conversation in a workplace is insane though.

      Phone calls and personal meetings are not always interchangeable with email, they serve different, if overlapping purposes.

    7. Re:As long as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You try that shit around here and I'll punch you right in the face.

      Unless you're the boss, you need MY permission to steal MY time with your inane questions.

    8. Re:As long as... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking "around here" means the unemployment line.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    9. Re:As long as... by jaymz666 · · Score: 1

      Yes, because your special request takes precedence over what that person may be working on that's actually important.
      Screw that. Send me an email and I will get back to you when it's convenient for me. Then if more discussion is needed we can setup a meeting.

    10. Re:As long as... by jaymz666 · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking "around here" is somewhere that they do actual work instead of gossip at each others desks all day

    11. Re:As long as... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      There are 25 people at the software house where I work, (which is part of a much larger corporation), we all have communicator active when we boot up, and we all totally ignore it. I also want it to automatically translate my missives to Japan into their native tounge and vica-versa. I also want to be able to log on to my email from outside the office without So sure, you can kill my email if you have a faster and simpler way to systematically sort through a hundred or so technical points and questions every day, and if you or I had one we would be snorting coke of a hooker's breasts right now..

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    12. Re:As long as... by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      Well, in the way that Wave was centralized it would be nice if there was a package like that where you host it on your own servers. So secure data would stay in the company system. And in the event of an audit, the company would have an easier time hiding evidence of illegal activity, instead of going after the employee inbox. I think that is a feature Google can never provide!

      Really I feel like the problems with email are that people use it for too many things at the same time. Sending messages, sending html formatted mailers, sending files, storing files, etc. If those were separated out into separate tools, even if they were in the same package, would be best. Though, this is for a more Intranet style setup.

      Email is nice because it is ubiquitous. You can send emails to everyone from anywhere. The clients that read emails could be better designed to make emails less ugly as hell though. Because of this I can understand why so many people communicate through Facebook. It distills the messaging portion of email in to clean easy to view messages.

      I dunno, there are still a lot of aspects to think about.

      --
      Balderdash!
    13. Re:As long as... by treeves · · Score: 1

      Woah. What a crazy idea.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    14. Re:As long as... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      I find that if an email chain goes more than 3 back and forths that it is a lot more productive to pick up the damn phone and talk to someone. Not sure what that has to do with gossiping.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    15. Re:As long as... by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      Remember, if he uses a memory doubler, he can get a whole 160 GBs in there.

    16. Re:As long as... by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I've got shit to do, and assaulting me with banalities, such as recaps of last night's Dancing With The Stars, usually results in a colleague muttering "Geez, what's his problem!?!" as they walk away...

      It's pretty ridiculous how resentful people get when a coworker doesn't want to piss away half their day on stupid shit, too.

    17. Re:As long as... by Eristone · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Talk to person via phone call or walk up to their desk. I'm in the Pacific Time Zone, my coworker is in the India Standard Time Zone. So which one of us stays late or comes in early to have that direct conversation you suggest? I think I'll stick with that e-mail for the time being...

    18. Re:As long as... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that works real well for a topic that is important but has no particular urgency with a colleague who is busy doing something that is both important and urgent. Of course the fact that whatever you discuss is subject to the interpretation and memory of the people involved in the conversations means that it is really useful as well.
      Having said that, there are definitely many exchanges of information that take place by email that should take place in person. On the other hand there are many exchanges of information that take place in person that should take place in writing.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    19. Re:As long as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Um...you talk about how Wave is centralized, that it would be nice if you could host it yourself so it stays in the corporate walls, and that Google could never provide this....

      BUT

      That is *exactly* what Wave is! Google instigated it, and provided their own client and server to showcase it, but Wave is a "federated" client/server protocol, with support for server-to-server backend communication allowing clients on different servers to communicate as if they were part of the same system, in near-real-time (character-by-character transmission, including cursor movement, if desired). It even supports legacy systems like email and IM for backwards compatibility. Each 'Wave' can be a conversation like email or IM, or can be a single collaborative document, edited by each participant simultaneously, with a recorded history to playback the edits in sequence (unlimited undos, in a sense). So Wave is a conversation system, as well as a "wiki" document repository, with email-like send/receive and wiki-like control over who participates in any particular wave.

      It is extremely disappointing that Google abandoned it officially, but the Apache Foundation took it over and is developing it into a mature product here: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/

      If I was a coder I'd participate, I've been championing Wave locally (at my school and work) since it was first announced and I so hope to see it come back. I would love to see it come out of Apache's incubator as a viable product. I host my own email server today (thanks to Stalker/CommuniGate's free 5-user community license: http://www.communigate.com/main/purchase/ ) and can't wait to implement Wave (or to push Stalker to make it a feature of CGP!).

    20. Re:As long as... by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Personally I have never seen any viable alternative to email proposed.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    21. Re:As long as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I wasted my time walking around the office talking to people all day I'd be fired. I use email because it's convenient and I can't talk to 30 people at once.

    22. Re:As long as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find that if an email chain goes more than 3 back and forths that it is a lot more productive to pick up the damn phone and talk to someone. Not sure what that has to do with gossiping.

      He didn't say pick up the phone, he said walk up to my desk and interrupt me without any warning. He's not doing his job, and now he's keeping me from doing mine. I get several hundred relevant emails each day, and if I had to talk to those people directly NONE of us would be getting any work done.

      There are some situations where email is overkill. But there are many where it is not. And I've found the people who most often desire to not use email are trying to avoid leaving a paper trail, it has nothing to do with ease of communication.

    23. Re:As long as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...dreaded 160 char limit on that method =/

    24. Re:As long as... by CodeArtisan · · Score: 1

      One thing that gets much better results then emailing each other is walking up to their desk (without sending a meeting request, mind you) and talk to them. Yes! In person.

      Instead of doing the 20 questions (meaning 20 mails) I have a conversation. Sometimes people are too far away (e.g. in another country) and then I call them. On the phone. We have a conversation of 5-15 minutes and we are BOTH clear what we want and need.

      Right - BOTH clear. And then you go off and do it only to be told "That's not what I agreed to..."

      "But, but.....", you splutter, "you said it was!"

      Meanwhile, I have a few notes captured in email along with an electronic agreement from my co-worker, and my work is not only complete, but correct.

    25. Re:As long as... by jaymz666 · · Score: 1

      add to that instances when you need exact information, such as http://test.foo.com/1/2/3/4/342095834/
      yeah, have fun writing that down correctly and typing it back in correctly.

    26. Re:As long as... by IAmGarethAdams · · Score: 1

      Wave is about as centralised as XMPP was when there was only one XMPP server to connect to.

    27. Re:As long as... by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1
      Google Wave. It was a great idea, but poor implementation. The fact that it was invite only and there was no desktop client similar to Outlook killed it. How can you use a collaboration tool if the people you want to collaborate with don't have access? I find it really difficult to think of an email I could send or conversation I could have over email that wouldn't have been better implemented as a Wave. I'm constantly having to find past emails or scroll through re: of re: of re: text to find out what the original conversation was about, or see if such and such got the email, etc.

      Wave was the answer. Fix the implementation and I'd get everyone I know and their dog to jump on it.

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

    28. Re:As long as... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, people at work talk about that all the time.

      Try that with me sometime. When you arrive at my desk you'll see that I'm on the phone, in a meeting. When I'm free, chances are you're on the phone, in a meeting.

      It sounds great in theory.

  4. Well by Spad · · Score: 5, Funny

    Presumably it will join the keyboard and mouse, which have apparently been just about to become obsolete for most of the last 15 years.

    Not that it will matter, of course, because the Internet is mere weeks away from becoming catastrophically overloaded & falling apart and it has been for years.

    1. Re:Well by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget the 'Paperless Office', they have predicting ever since the invention of the computer. Last I look, most offices produce more paper not than they did 10 years ago.

    2. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Internet is mere weeks away from becoming catastrophically overloaded & falling apart and it has been for years.

      Collapse of the Internet imminent. PNGs at 11.

    3. Re:Well by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Yep. I've worked in two "paperless offices" so far, and what happened was that people ended up having to print out everything anyway. For one thing, it's easier to get someone to sign a sheet of paper in blue ink and just tuck it away in an HR folder than it is to implement safe digital signatures most places. If you're having a discussion about a complex help desk ticket, and you want someone to take a look at the specific ticket but it's nearly identical to twelve other tickets, you have to write down the ticket number... or hey, just print out the ticket and hand it to them (as my boss did to me twice this morning.) And heaven help you if the Internet goes down and you're using SaaS. Suddenly, everything has to go into temporary Word files... which are later on printed out so they can be entered into the system properly.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    4. Re:Well by zlives · · Score: 1

      my virtual reality glove and glasses are the only input method i need...

    5. Re:Well by garcia · · Score: 2

      I don't know where you work but I haven't printed more than a handful of pages in the last 5 years which were actually necessary to do my job.

      In the two places I speak of, there's a culture of sharing information via e-mail/PDF or, in my current role, via Google Docs.

      I can't imagine going to a job which didn't act that way.

    6. Re:Well by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      If you're having a discussion about a complex help desk ticket, and you want someone to take a look at the specific ticket but it's nearly identical to twelve other tickets, you have to write down the ticket number... or hey, just print out the ticket and hand it to them (as my boss did to me twice this morning.) And heaven help you if the Internet goes down and you're using SaaS. Suddenly, everything has to go into temporary Word files... which are later on printed out so they can be entered into the system properly.

      Why can't you email the ticket number instead of taking a piece of paper to that person?
      Also, why do you need to PRINT something to move it from word to another system. Don't ctrl+c and ctrl+v work in your office?

    7. Re:Well by Nethead · · Score: 1

      Hi Bill:

      E-format stuff is great until you're out in the field actually doing the work. Then there is nothing like a good clipboard with the day's jobs printed out. Gotta get them signed off anyway to scan back into the E-system anyway. A lot of the jobs want serial numbers and signatures on the work order faxed back before leaving the site.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    8. Re:Well by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!

    9. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha! I prefer using the touch-sensitive screen that looks like a plate glass desktop. Data-entry requires a physical keyboard which is fine by me; I cannot type on glass surfaces.

    10. Re:Well by garcia · · Score: 3, Informative

      My buddy works in a factory that makes furniture. Guess what? They prefer iPads to the old notepads. It has reduced duplication of effort and sped up the entire workflow process by automating it. No need to wait until your floor check run (two or more hours) is over before heading back into the offices to get the data entered. It's all done from the floor.

      Keep on trying to live out the old style. If it's not broke, fix it anyway because there's a much better way.

      YMMV.

    11. Re:Well by swanzilla · · Score: 1

      Nice try Dwight. I have exactly printed two documents at my current office: my background check documentation for a third party security clearance org and my offer letter when we were bought out by one of the big dogs. Multiple monitors and projectors are cheap by comparison.

    12. Re:Well by Tom · · Score: 2

      Mostly because people are printing out e-mails to take them to meetings.

      The iPad does more for the paperless office vision than all other inventions of the past 10 years combined. The one thing it doesn't allow for is spreading out all your stuff in front of you to look important (managers) or get an overview (non-managers).

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    13. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi Bill:

      E-format stuff is great until you're out in the field actually doing the work. Then there is nothing like a good clipboard with the day's jobs printed out. Gotta get them signed off anyway to scan back into the E-system anyway. A lot of the jobs want serial numbers and signatures on the work order faxed back before leaving the site.

      Yeah, we use tablets for that. We used to use the paper systems, they were a nightmare of inflexibility, inaccuracy, and wasted time. Now our techs carry a tablet. Jobs can be added/removed/updated in real time. Signatures are done directly on the tablet with a stylus. No paper needed. The techs have a small printer in their trucks for hardcopy receipts if the customer wants one at the time of service. Fax isn't needed because it's already back at the office.

      The only techs who bitched were the slackers who were afraid the tablets would reveal how much they were abusing the paper system to cover up leisure activities. We've seen some techs performance nearly double, some increase even more, and fired one guy who had been bullshitting the paper system so he could take an extra 2-hour lunch each day.

  5. What's email? by jaymz666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it defined as messages sent via SMTP? Or just electronic messages?
    There was email before SMTP, there will be email after SMTP. Messages between two users on a BBS was email, messages between a couple of users on facebook is email. So, no, it won't go away.

    1. Re:What's email? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No the later is Instant Messaging, and it's closer to IRC than email. The concept of "e-mail" implies an electronic version of mailing, which means you have an "envelope" (or box) which is handed to a server that routes it to the right post office, which in turn can distribute those messages to the appropriate people.
      If it stops fitting that pipeline (prepare letter -> send -> route -> distribute), then it wouldn't really be e-mail anymore, it would be something else that, at best, is similar to e-mail. ;P

      I also don't think posts on a public board (or facebook profile) count as e-mail either.

    2. Re:What's email? by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      The cross-BBS networks would count as email under your definition. Probably not leaving notes between users on a single board, though.

    3. Re:What's email? by scrib · · Score: 5, Insightful

      By that logic, email existed before the telephone. They just called it a "telegram."

      --
      Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
    4. Re:What's email? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      i agree about facebook, but BBSes had private messages, and something like fidonet was about as real as smtp email.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    5. Re:What's email? by Malvineous · · Score: 2

      I think e-mail would be defined as having two features, similar to the postal service. In a properly configured system, a message would never be lost. It would either be delivered or returned to the sender. It would also allow routing through multiple systems (and not necessarily TCP/IP ones) in order to arrive at its destination.

      Instant messaging doesn't count as e-mail because most IM systems don't guarantee delivery, so you're lucky if your failed message doesn't get lost forever. They are also centralised, and even Jabber servers connect directly to one another so the concept of routing messages through many mailhubs doesn't generally apply (of course it's possible to do all this, but most IM services don't.)

    6. Re:What's email? by muon-catalyzed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > messages between a couple of users on facebook is email

      Facebook, Google Wave, AOL, ICQ, Yahoo messenger.. services like these come and go, the SMTP email stays. More importantly email is an established open standard and it is part of the very blueprint of the Internet, the RFCs. And unlike Facebook or Google services, email is not controlled by some messages monetizing 3rd parties.

    7. Re:What's email? by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      facebook has both IM and mail messages. fyi

    8. Re:What's email? by Mex · · Score: 1

      I don't email directly anymore, I post on G+, recipients receive it in whatever means they favor, email, text notice, online, G+ account, whatever. If they don't have a google account, it goes to their email.

      What happens if Google decides they don't like you and you get banned from their service?

    9. Re:What's email? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He still doesn't use email anymore!

      He just stops communicating altogether.

    10. Re:What's email? by gman003 · · Score: 1

      I would argue that a true definition of "email" is "text-based messages that can be written, transmitted, read, and archived, entirely electronically". Telegrams were never (to my knowledge) archived electronically, and (again, to my knowledge) were mostly written and read on paper, only being transmitted electronically.

      Still, very interesting to think of how old some of the predecessors to email are (or rather, were).

    11. Re:What's email? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      So where would you put storing messages on paper tape like the old Telex days? Ah, so many ways to skin a cat.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    12. Re:What's email? by Demerara · · Score: 1

      So yeah, email has become transparent to me. I receive next to no correspondence through it.

      But not no correspondence. So you still use email. And, so long as we still use it, it will not go away.

      --
      Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
    13. Re:What's email? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Email takes whatever form a person's client and server can arrange, from threaded conversations to simple web interfaces, phone interfaces, whatever. It's free of "intellectual property" handicaps and dumb crap, and its use is not dictated by monetizing corporatists. Plus, as a whole, it's not vulnerable to a single mismanaged company with no discernible business plan going, well, out of business.

      It does have some problems, most of which are directly related to the protocols being developed before criminals, advertisers, and other such scum were allowed on the Internet and most people weren't out to cheat each other. That is fixable, but most fixes require some fairly large changes.

      So, come up with a free and open protocol that anybody who wants to can implement, which can interact with any other like system without royalties, per-use billing, and other such junk which fixes some of the known flaws of email and you've got a winner.

      BTW, before anybody accuses me of "attacking capitalism", I would point out that the free and open nature of email has enabled commerce, communication, and generally helped companies and people of all economic means. It is something where large multinationals don't have an immediate advantage over the little guy, and that is good for improving the economic position of actual people--the real "job creators" in any economy.

    14. Re:What's email? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      amen

    15. Re:What's email? by amacbride · · Score: 1

      What's Google+?

    16. Re:What's email? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      "By that logic, email existed before the telephone. They just called it a "telegram.""

      Not true. A telegram is transmitted electronically (electrically?) but it is stored purely in a physical format; e.g. paper. This makes ineligible to be covered under the expansive logic you are decrying. :)

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    17. Re:What's email? by MsWhich · · Score: 2

      I'm a freelance book indexer. I can only imagine how business would soar if I instructed potential clients to contact me via my G+ account instead of sending me an email as they would to every other freelancer in the entire country. "No, no, it'll be super easy," I'll tell them. "I'm a one-stop shop. Just contact me to let me know what your address is, and I'll put you in my G+ circles, and it will be exactly like having an email conversation, except with many more steps to go through before we can actually transact any business."

      I'm perfectly okay with having different methods of contact for different purposes. I primarily converse with friends via social media. I conduct business via email. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

    18. Re:What's email? by Tom · · Score: 1

      It goes to their mail, but with tons of G+ crap wrapped around it.

      Has anyone created a gateway for FB, G+, etc.? I can tell FB to send me an e-mail whenever I get a FB message, I can probably write some curl script to fetch the actual message and post an answer - but maybe someone has already done it? Integrate FB messaging into your e-mail program?

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    19. Re:What's email? by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't. They are one and the same on FB. It is one of the things I hate. I can't have two separate conversations with one person... Doing that in chat is ok... Doing that offline is very frustrating

    20. Re:What's email? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      E-mail can be lost without before being finally delivered and before being returned to sender even if every server in the world were correctly configured. All it takes is for an intermediate e-mail server to fail after having received an e-mail but before having a chance to pass it on to its recipient.

    21. Re:What's email? by majid_aldo · · Score: 1

      google wave is a standard that can be used independently of google.

      --
      --- widget evolution: enhanced, plus, super, ultra, extreme, exxxtreme, ultra-extreme, ..etc.
  6. What would a post-pundit world look like? by PeanutButterBreath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A guy can dream. . .

    1. Re:What would a post-pundit world look like? by SeaFox · · Score: 1, Insightful

      t would be a world where everyone is better informed and not parroting the opinion of a talking head they saw last night.

    2. Re:What would a post-pundit world look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, at least that's what Rachel Maddow told you, amirite?!

    3. Re:What would a post-pundit world look like? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Something like this, I would hope:

      Dole Office Clerk: Occupation?
      Thomas Friedman: Political pundit.
      Dole Office Clerk: What?
      Thomas Friedman: Political pundit. I locate socio-historical trends in modern times and try to turn them into a trite and meaningless comprehension.
      Dole Office Clerk: Oh, a bullshit artist!
      Thomas Friedman: Grrrrrrrrrr ...
      Dole Office Clerk: Did you bullshit last week?
      Thomas Friedman: No.
      Dole Office Clerk: Did you try to bullshit last week?
      Thomas Friedman: Yes!

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  7. Natural progressions by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

    E-mail will replace regular mail. It's been a slow process, but the Post Office (in the US and Britain; I can't speak for other countries) is starting to cut back; The majority of what is being sent out are physical goods and junk mail (advertising). Many people here have switched to online bill pay, and most banks offer automatic payment if the company (rarely) doesn't do bill to credit card.

    Party lines gave way to single user land lines, and single user landlines gave way to cell phones. Cell phones are now giving way to text-based near realtime communication like text messages. And cell phones will eventually transition to packet-switched radio communications using VoIP and QoS.

    The only thing slowing down these technologies are companies that don't want to lose the massive profits they're getting from already deployed infrastructure; They employ a wide variety of legal and financial methods to ensure that competing/replacing technology as slowly as possible.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Natural progressions by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      E-mail will replace regular mail.

      As long as you cannot deliver physical goods over the net, regular mail will exist, even if it is reduced mostly to parcels.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:Natural progressions by Antarell · · Score: 1

      E-mail will replace regular mail. It's been a slow process, but the Post Office (in the US and Britain; I can't speak for other countries) is starting to cut back; The majority of what is being sent out are physical goods and junk mail (advertising). Many people here have switched to online bill pay, and most banks offer automatic payment if the company (rarely) doesn't do bill to credit card.

      I can say Australia Post is becoming more of a courier company than postal service. They are now pushing an "Digital mail box" service to "Receive - Your own digital mailbox to securely receive important mail. Pay - Easy payment of your bills. Store - Private and secure storage for your important documents"

      I don't think anyone has told them this is called email/electronic banking and has been around for years!

    3. Re:Natural progressions by Nethead · · Score: 2

      The only thing slowing down these technologies are companies that don't want to lose the massive profits they're getting from already deployed infrastructure; They employ a wide variety of legal and financial methods to ensure that competing/replacing technology as slowly as possible.

      What is slowing it down is the massive cost of the infrastructure that needs to be amortized. Deployed 3G equipment is five years old. Building out literally tens of thousands of sites costs a lot of capitol and a whole lot of very skilled labor. The logistics of swapping out equipment on top of tall poles in remote locations is daunting. When working in the industry I recall several places in Florida were marked on the project management sheets as "Osprey sites." Meaning that you can't climb that pole until the Osprey chicks hatch and move out of the nest due to federal law. OK, we have to bond a bunch of T1s for two months until we can mount the microwave links because that's the best data circuit we can get a the site and the money people demand that it gets up NOW! Just all of the microgovernmental back and forth to get the permits to build out the system takes many man-weeks. Don't even ask about getting LECs to deliver circuits.

      I contracted to Clearwire for six months during their last major build out. 26,000 RF sites, 21 regional data centers. By the time we were getting on the home stretch the engineering department was already specifying new equipment for the next upgrade. We thought that 20Gb/s was enough for a regional data center, but no, now we need to get 80Gb/s through it. It moves that fast. Our microwave supplier got slammed balls-to-the-wall for a year and then almost went bust when we stopped ordering for a few months while we were waiting for the next cash input. Other ISPish companies had to hold off on deployment plans because we had bought all the capacity of a TE layer 2 switch equipment supplier for the year.

      There are so many things that have to happen before the first monopole gets planted in the ground that it still amazes me that we have the infrastructure we enjoy now. You need investors to fork over cash, local permits, state utilities commission approval, frequency coordination, FCC licenses, property leases, electrical power, maybe FAA sign-off if it's above 200', available construction equipment, all the parts to build the site delivered at the site, a crew scheduled to install it, data lines from the telco to talk to it, data center space to connect it to, suppliers for the data equipment ready to deliver, all the equipment for the data center delivered to the data center, installation crew for the data center, network engineers to design the network, network engineers to turn it up, billing coders to account for the data, accounting to pay the bills and to bill, sales to get the customers, handset vendors to build and brand phones for your system, help desks for the customers, and a PR department for people that think it's all so simple to do.

      Getting all this to come together is freaking hard work. I think that your comment is disingenuous, at best.

      --

      Party lines gave way to single user land lines,

      No, party lines were only used in very rural areas where the cost of the wire (copper) wasn't worth the build out. They, at best, were only 5% of the market. More correct would be that private phones (we would call them intercoms) gave way to operated assisted calling, that gave way to the automated PSTN or Public Switched Telephone Network that we have enjoyed for the last 100ish years. The "cell phone" is still part of the PSTN, just using a very advanced radio modulation format. IMTS was part of the PSTN and brought on-line in 1964. The only difference is that the sets are much smaller and the RF bandwidth is much better utilized. Packet radio has been around since the 1970s for data transmission. We've just gotten better at it. Not that much new under the sun, just more users getting a tan.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    4. Re:Natural progressions by tftp · · Score: 1

      As I understand, postal deliveries are done on routes, where the postman drives the entire route every day, just in case if he needs to collect outgoing mail.

      A parcel delivery service (of any kind) sends a truck to a location only if there is a pickup request, or if they have a package to deliver. Much more efficient this way.

      I used to send checks via USPS until several months ago. Then I switched to the free Bill Pay service that Wells Fargo offers. They can pay anyone, as long as you have the address of the company and your account number. One advantage of this method is that it's largely (if not completely) automated. All payments are traceable; there are no checks to lose, and there is no need to guess if they received the check or not. Writing checks takes time - about 5 minutes, including the envelope. Paying online requires just two clicks of the mouse, with my payees already listed on the screen.

    5. Re:Natural progressions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe. I guess it depends on whether you distinguish between a mail service (which approximately passes every door every day) and courier (which goes directly to the addresses that have deliveries). Once the number of parcels received per street per day drops below a certain threshold, a mail service is no longer competitive with a courier.

    6. Re:Natural progressions by dwye · · Score: 1

      To be fair, basic email is no more secure than a postcard. This may be an improvement on that, even if already done by some commercial entity before them, or PGP and the like.

  8. Not wave by frisket · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It may turn out that Google's Wave, which was built on this idea, was just a bit ahead of its time.

    Nonsense. Wave was just a threaded BB, much inferior to a News client, but graphical, so therefore cooler.

    1. Re:Not wave by 2.7182 · · Score: 2

      I never understood Wave. And I think that was typical of the problem Google had with it - no one really knew what the main idea was. I understood a few key things it could do, which were cool, but I am not sure if it was ahead of its time or if it just really was an ill defined mish mosh of concepts.

    2. Re:Not wave by manoweb · · Score: 1

      Wave was an excellent tool. We used it intensely, and it was great. We love to rganize trips and hikes in the desert. There is a core of people that almost always joins and several others that come in every so often. It was great to have a tool that lets add people, organize, tidy up, add maps, lists, links, polls etc etc. It was possible to work together at the same time and it would highlight the new or unread areas and who modified them. Doing the same over email + a shared Google Doc Spreadsheet now is so much more complicated.

    3. Re:Not wave by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      Wave was an excellent tool. We used it intensely, and it was great. We love to rganize trips and hikes in the desert. There is a core of people that almost always joins and several others that come in every so often. It was great to have a tool that lets add people, organize, tidy up, add maps, lists, links, polls etc etc. It was possible to work together at the same time and it would highlight the new or unread areas and who modified them. Doing the same over email + a shared Google Doc Spreadsheet now is so much more complicated.

      Try using a Wiki. Sounds like the right tool for your need.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    4. Re:Not wave by kaizokuace · · Score: 0

      It was an ill defined mish mosh.

      I think the problem with Wave was that it did too many things in the same place. You have to deconstruct the features of email to then put them back together. Not just make some silly collaborative bulletin board. Email is hired for various features: messaging, sharing files, storing files, advertisement, etc. All these happen in the same place in a not-so-pretty format. When taken apart you can see that Wave should have tried to meet these features if replacing email was the desire.

      A lot of people have been hiring Facebook messaging to replace the messaging in email. This shows that distilling the features works. For example, I use Google+ and Facebook messaging for direct communications with friends and Dropbox for file sharing and storage. The problem I think is that these features are too separate. And messaging on a social network is out of context for work or business.

      ok end rambling.

      --
      Balderdash!
    5. Re:Not wave by darrylo · · Score: 1

      Wave, as it was released , was basically a threaded and interactive/real-time forum (it was also a marvelous technological solution looking for a problem -- but that's another rant). If any of the current forum software (e.g., phpBB) implemented threading and collapsible subtrees, you'd get the major functionality of wave. (In fact, slashdot comes somewhat close, except that you can't edit/delete your posts.)

      In iOS, the "beluga" app was wonderful for group messaging, as it was great at allowing people to come and go. However, they were sold to facebook, and is now supposedly FB messenger. :-( I haven't found any replacement as good as beluga.

    6. Re:Not wave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The neat thing about Wave, I think, was the way it allowed for a single, canonical object to represent a conversation. Email is fragmentary. The more people involved with the conversation, the more copies of the conversation, the more objects are out there. With Wave, any number of people could be involved in, added to, or subtracted from a conversation at any time, and it always remains a single object. Someone joins an email chain after a few exchanges and it's pretty awkward to get that person up to speed in the conversation. In Wave, it was simple.

    7. Re:Not wave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone joins an email chain after a few exchanges and it's pretty awkward to get that person up to speed in the conversation.

      Then you need to inform your email users of this feature called "Reply", with the option of including the original message in the reply. That's why it's called an email chain, and anybody who need to get up to speed should simply scroll down.

    8. Re:Not wave by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2

      I think that "wiki" aspect of Wave was one of the things that made people who got it, like it, but there were so many other things like the way it would keep track of which bits of the wave you had read, draw your attention to new bits, allow you to embed active forms and gadgets, etc. And the ability to see all simultaneous edits, with no exclusive locking, was superior to most wiki software which will, if you are lucky, let you know if someone else is editing the page before you edit it yourself.

      Etherpad was/is similar, and indeed, swallowed by Google to see what they could learn from it, but only worked with plain text and not all the more useful rich content.

      I think of Wave as having great potential for collaboration ; an app that merges the ability to collaborate both synchronously and asynchronously with both other humans AND automated processes.

    9. Re:Not wave by manoweb · · Score: 1

      A wiki would not work too well as a shared Google Doc is already better than a wiki in terms of collaboration (and a wiki is so much better than a Google Doc for an Encyclopedia).

    10. Re:Not wave by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I never understood Wave. And I think that was typical of the problem Google had with it - no one really knew what the main idea was.

      This video explains it well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDu2A3WzQpo

      This kind of email hell is quite common at the office.

    11. Re:Not wave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you need to inform your email users of this feature called "Reply", with the option of including the original message in the reply. That's why it's called an email chain, and anybody who need to get up to speed should simply scroll down.

      No she doesn't. Your purported solution is why email sucks so badly.

  9. Video mail will replace email. by elucido · · Score: 1

    At this point the text based email will slowly be phased out as multimedia video and audio are phased in until email is unrecognizable. Skype for instance may be the email replacement.

    1. Re:Video mail will replace email. by ubrgeek · · Score: 5, Funny

      And it will be replaced by flying cars and personal jetpacks.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    2. Re:Video mail will replace email. by Spad · · Score: 2

      Ah, video calls, I believe they're due to become a dominant technological force a couple of weeks after Virtual Reality does.

    3. Re:Video mail will replace email. by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Funny

      And aluminum pants. Never forget the aluminum pants.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Video mail will replace email. by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Because having jerking video and audio that sounds like it's coming from the bottom of a barrel is the future of communications.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Video mail will replace email. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's retarded. I work for a company that has a massive deployment (not to mention, development investment) in tele-presence. Even we don't use it. We communicate by IM and email and we conduct our meetings not with telepresence but by email. And I certainly don't help our clients via "videomail". I communicate with them via email (or phone on occasion) as per their preference.

      People already have video on any smart phone, too. Nobody uses it.

      Maybe something will replace email for CHILDREN between the ages of 10 and 15 or 20, but everyone after that will still use email, because it's a necessary system for communication that nothing else can provide or accomplish. People who have some stupid fetish to abandon it are just fucking morons.

    6. Re:Video mail will replace email. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it doesn't, but if you had actually used Skype in the past 5 years you'd know that what you just said is complete bullshit. There's good quality video, and good quality audio now, you just need the equipment for it and a decent internet connection.

    7. Re:Video mail will replace email. by treeves · · Score: 1

      Long as they're not *transparent* aluminum pants, that's cool.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    8. Re:Video mail will replace email. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not vertically mount your Smartphone to a spinning platter to create the illusion of a 3D avatar that would either recite voicemail, use Ray Kurzweil's text-to-speech algorithm or display a video-mail message for you?

      When you're on vacation you could just lob the thing in the air to approximate the same effect, if you were really interested in the facial expression of coworkers who'd bother you in Tuvalu.

    9. Re:Video mail will replace email. by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Skype for instance may be the email replacement.

      How?

      Can I use it to message people on other networks? Can I build my own server?

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    10. Re:Video mail will replace email. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know but I use "video calls" in one form or another all the time:

      1. Since about 1999, we have had real video calling ("TV Call") here in Japan - but it costs per minute above and beyond normal cell phone calls, so it's rarely used by anyone. This is being phased out as Android terminals are replacing the ones with the proprietary OSes even among Japanese makers.
      2. Skype Video - I use this on the computer. I've used it for school, I used it to talk to my last girlfriend and my current one. My girlfriend uses it to talk to her friends. I use it to talk to my friends. Other people in Japan and people overseas - the suckiest thing about Skype is honestly that half the people I know don't have their computers set up properly with video and sound - especially people outside of Japan. It seems they try to save a few bucks on their PC and end up with one without that stuff built in. Then they pay to add it extra anyway, and it doesn't work well. Sometimes I use Skype with co-workers as well.
      2. Facetime - I have an iPhone 4 which I use as an iPod (and a Macbook), and I use FaceTime occasionally - but not too often.
      3. Google Talk Video in Gmail - Again, occasionally - I usually use GTalk for text chatting only.
      4. webEx - This I have used for school and work, and it has video chat features as well.

      So I do some sort of "Video Call" at least once per week for a while now. I think that in order for it to be popular, it has to:
      1. Be free or very very cheap and easy to bill compared to normal voice calls.
      2. Be convenient to use.
      3. Everyone has to have the requisite hardware existing, working, and properly set up - this seems to be the biggest issue these days.

    11. Re:Video mail will replace email. by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Please no... When I want to send a short message to my coworker (who is currently in a meeting) I need to stop what I am doing. Look at the camera, and record a message? I'd rather start up an email, and when I have a minute type a few sentences or two... I can do the whole message all at once, or I can craft the email over time, at my own pace. And then send it. I think video messages will be charming, and it will be a great way to communicate with a loved one, or your friends. But it won't work in the corporate environement

  10. i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's take a proven, non-centralized, robust, simple, optionally private, easily implemented, open standard that anyone implement from the RFCs, and anyone can run on their very own computer, and replace it with something centrally controlled, ideally by the UN, US, EU, or Coast Guard, proprietary, make it that people cannot reasonably run their own servers, or implement it from scratch. Bonus points if it can be another vector to deliver advertizements to eyeballs, and tightly controlled so those ads cannot be blocked by end users.

    That should fit pretty well with the direction the internet has been going.

    1. Re:i have an idea! by fph+il+quozientatore · · Score: 2

      I wish I had mod points. This is one of the most insightful AC posts I have ever seen on Slashdot.

      --
      My first program:

      Hell Segmentation fault

    2. Re:i have an idea! by Iskender · · Score: 2

      Haven't spam and spam countermeasures already made the effort of running your own mailserver unreasonable? At least I've heard that you'll be basically blocked either by default or after a while.

      Add to that malware which just loves the idea of a spare mailserver whose owner works elsewhere most of the time and the fact that it's hard to even get ONE static IP these days and suddenly the current system is already the domain of large organizations (and a few super-nerds who are there mostly through inertia.)

    3. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spam... I must say in all honestly that I completely forgot about spam, since the last one I received was in the 1990's. I don't filter, I just practice good discipline with who I give my address to, and make a throw-away account for all the random web-forum sort of crap that wants an email address.

      Honestly, I think spam isn't a big problem any more. With just a little bit of care, you don't ever have to get onto those lists to begin with.

    4. Re:i have an idea! by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      If you have the brains to set up a mail server, setting up SpamAssassin is pretty easy.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:i have an idea! by addie · · Score: 1

      Exactly right.

      I constantly harass my friends to stop contacting me via facebook (which I enjoy for other reasons) and just use email instead. I can keep all my messages centralized, filed, and secured. The FB messaging service is, of course, a complete joke. But even if it was brilliantly designed and my privacy fears allayed, what happens when FB disappears and the next big thing comes along? Are all those messages gone? Will there be a way to export them in an open format? Somehow I doubt it.

      Email is a fundamental part of the internet, and I don't see it going anywhere. At least, I damn well hope it doesn't - because as you point out, the alternative is frightening.

    6. Re:i have an idea! by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Step 1: Setup an e-mail server.
      Step 2. Create PTR (reverse DNS record).
      Step 3. Create an SPF record (TXT DNS record)
      Step 4 (optional): Use a hosted e-mail security service to filter the SPAM for you.
      Step 5 (optional): White list SMTP traffic only coming from your hosted e-mail service provider. Block all outbound SMTP traffic from inside your local IP subnet.

      Results: Virtually little to no spam and no chance of being blacklisted on an RBL list from an infected machine inside your network.

      Yes. I do this for a living as a network consultant.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's take a proven, non-centralized, robust, simple, optionally private, easily implemented, open standard that anyone implement from the RFCs, and anyone can run on their very own computer, and replace it with something centrally controlled, ideally by the UN, US, EU, or Coast Guard, proprietary, make it that people cannot reasonably run their own servers, or implement it from scratch. Bonus points if it can be another vector to deliver advertizements to eyeballs, and tightly controlled so those ads cannot be blocked by end users.

      Different AC responding:

      "Unfortunately, that's exactly what the industry did with USENET and NNTP."

    8. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In 12 years I've never had trouble running my own SMTP server, and I've moved through many colocation centers. There's no reason why there should be problems, anyhow. Tens--perhaps hundreds--of thousands of corporations run their own e-mail server. Those sysadmins aren't any more capable, or privy to secret knowledge, than anyone else. And other corporations aren't going to stop blocking them, otherwise how would they conduct business?

      All the world is not a VAX; all the world is not Microsoft; all the world is not GMail.

    9. Re:i have an idea! by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Email is so cheap that there's very little point in running ones' own email server. It's kind of like generating your own electricity: Sure, you can do it, but it's very complicated, very expensive, and is less effective than the existing systems.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    10. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh, dear. Don't cause a fuss. I'll have your Spam. I love it. I'm having Spam, Spam, Spam....

    11. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which suppliers do you recommend for step 4?

    12. Re:i have an idea! by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Running one's one email server is neither complicated nor expensive.

      If you really think it's anything nearly as costly as generating your own electricity, then you have no clue about either endeavor.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    13. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't be so quick to say "the alternative is frightening". I'm aware the internet is going downhill in many ways (and has been for many years) but fear of change generally does more harm than good. Other than that I couldn't agree with you and GP more.

    14. Re:i have an idea! by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Any teabilly can run a mail server. Running one *well* is complicated and expensive.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    15. Re:i have an idea! by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

      Well said, indeed.

      Now, what are we going to do about it?

    16. Re:i have an idea! by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      None of that will stop a spammer from using your domain as their sender domain, and get you blacklisted all over the place.

      Do you know what Sender Policy Framework is?

      Do you know how RBLs work?

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    17. Re:i have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook messages get sent to your e-mail by default (or, at least, it's an option)... and I just reply to them via e-mail. Luckily that doesn't happen that often for me.

  11. What's email? by RJFerret · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't email directly anymore, I post on G+, recipients receive it in whatever means they favor, email, text notice, online, G+ account, whatever. If they don't have a google account, it goes to their email.

    So yeah, email has become transparent to me. I receive next to no correspondence through it.

    That is the beauty of improved technology, making my life easier. It's been so horrible since we've moved away from landline phones and two standard methods of contact became mail/phone/fax/mobile/voicemail/SMS/email/web contact form/Twitter and who knows through which of those you'd get a response.

    I'm glad to return to the one stop shop.

  12. Re: What Would a Post-Email World Look Like? by carnalforge · · Score: 1

    It will resemble a world without UUCP, BBS, IRC or (heh) ICQ.

    It's the norm now, except for people who knows what SMTP(S) / POP3(S) / IMAP(S) or a MUA etc is.

    --
    :wq!
  13. Email by TheRecklessWanderer · · Score: 2

    One of the things I really like about email, and it may at least be partially true unless your with gmail or hotmail, that you know no one is sniffing through your data. I know that I may dillusional, but at least I'm pretty sure that marketing guys won't be filtering my email looking for ways to sell me things they think i'll want. I don't understand all these people that are willing to give up all their information for coupons and discounts. I guess i'm just old.

    --
    Mean what you say...say what you mean.
    1. Re:Email by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      at least I'm pretty sure that marketing guys won't be filtering my email looking for ways to sell me things they think i'll want

      Actually, that's what most webmail providers do. They provide you free service in return for your permission to mine everything passing through your account. This info gets passed on to the likes of Amazon and one day you see product suggestions based on something extracted from your e-mail history. You don't think they just give you tons of, or unlimited storage out of the goodness of their hearts?

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    2. Re:Email by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      I steer clear of Google apps for that exact reason. As it is nobody snoops on my exchange email, calendar or contacts. I've never understood the obsession with people giving all their information over to Google.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  14. Google Wave by zeigerpuppy · · Score: 2

    Google didn't pull the plug on Wave because it didn't work, it just didn't fit into their business model. The wave protocol is federated, while all other Google services are centralized, Google relies upon all traffic coming through them for skimming revenue from their users. This is why they killed wave and even when it was style in hype mode refused to release a user installable client (free or otherwise). However, the ideas behind wave, most importantly that it allows rich real-time communication with automatic archiving of history make it a powerful evolution of email/instant messaging. Rot in your capitalist filth Google, long live Wave!

    1. Re:Google Wave by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      Wave still exists, just not in its original form. Google is still using Wave internally in Google Apps. Wave just didn't have much of a purpose or direction by itself.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
  15. Intels will never let it die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As lone as governments have their insatiable desire to snoop on every word that their citizens speak and type, there will be email. Or at least until every citizen gets smart and begins to encrypt their mail. I even go a further step and use an anonymous email system. No one knows who I am emailing and no one knows who is emailing me. Google mixnym.net, Quicksilver remail client, AAMhSub.

  16. "Pundits" are Plentiful Idiots by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    They just like to hear themselves talk. It doesn't mean the know anything.

    Email is better than twitter, better than facebleck, better than phone, better than texting, better than in person. Email is queued. I can respond to it in my time in the detail level I wish. Email is the best communication tool.

  17. Just a thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had this though in reference to the recent article listed on /. THey want to allow SMS to 911. I have personally had messages disappear for weeks before being delivered (ty Verizon). But I think of all the existing tech SMS could (with a bit of security and reliability piled on) has the potential to replace email... but it is a long way off. Death to snail mail comes first.

    1. Re:Just a thought by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      What does SMS do better then email? It seems inferior in every way. I imagine SMS will die before email does, replaced by IM clients on smart phones.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    2. Re:Just a thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SMS is basically the evolution of the signals sent to pagers over 20 years ago. It is handled by SS7, which is also used to set up and break down every phone call. It also allows for the porting of numbers, and it's not going anywhere. Prominence varies, but for people without smartphones ( a hell of a lot more than you think) it is more practical and useful than feeble email clients for older generation phones. Furthermore, when all those voice circuits overload, they still work. Only someone who doesn't understand the technology would try to compare SMS and email directly.

  18. "integrated communication stream?" by martas · · Score: 1

    "integrated communication stream"? Is this the latest in manager-speak bullshit? That being said, there are some needs that today's email, even with great interfaces like gmail, either doesn't meet or meets awkwardly and with annoying hacks. Group discussions still have the tendency to turn into a clusterfuck, even with gmail-style nice thread view. And it would be nice if I could, say, create a category of "XXX class homework 4 submissions" and give some way for my students to submit directly to that category so I don't have to manually assign labels to all 45 submissions, and maybe share all submissions with the other TA's (the only alternative for me being blackboard, and I refuse to rely on that pile of bloated rotting carcasses)...

    1. Re:"integrated communication stream?" by rockout · · Score: 1

      "integrated communication stream"? Is this the latest in manager-speak bullshit?

      Yes.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    2. Re:"integrated communication stream?" by tomtomtom · · Score: 1

      And it would be nice if I could, say, create a category of "XXX class homework 4 submissions" and give some way for my students to submit directly to that category so I don't have to manually assign labels to all 45 submissions, and maybe share all submissions with the other TA's (the only alternative for me being blackboard, and I refuse to rely on that pile of bloated rotting carcasses)...

      Add + and a label to your email address before the @ sign. Filter based on this (maybe forward to an email list or some such). I honestly don't understand why more people don't know about this. Or go and create your own mailing list with its own address - again possible with minimal hassle.

  19. Decentralization by White+Flame · · Score: 1

    All these other schemes tend to cluster around particular servers or owned infrastructure. Facebook, Skype, Twitter, Google's stuff, etc live and die on the company supporting it. If Google had made good on their promises and released their federated Wave servers, that might have been one launching point where something new could have come around. (Wave in and of itself didn't seem that great, but offered an reasonable point of more complex integration.)

    But until some actual, open system that supports delayed delivery and large messages with attachments across personally-managed independent servers, I don't think any of them will encroach on the more formal uses of email.

    1. Re:Decentralization by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      What do you mean if Google made good on their promise? They did release all the necessary code to run Wave servers.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    2. Re:Decentralization by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Huh, I guess they did. I know they were holding out on that, for some reason, back when people actually were interested in Wave and Google was still promoting it.

      Is anybody doing anything with it? As heavyweight as it is, with Google effectively dropping it I'm not sure how many people would actually embrace it lone-wolf style.

    3. Re:Decentralization by wrt · · Score: 0

      My friends call me a luddite, as I choose email over more centralized "social" ecosystems. Maybe they are right...but I would like to argue my reasons.

      With email I am in greater control of the signal to noise ratio of my inbox through fine-grained filtering. I can make decisions over the privacy of my conversations by enforcing encryption and authentication. I can choose whether or not I am a marketing product. This freedom is made possible by open protocols implemented by a large set of clients and providers from which I can choose the most suitable.

      I sincerely hope that SMTP will not go the way of NNTP.

    4. Re:Decentralization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So e-mail is superior to all these other systems because it is open and decentralised and the freedom this bestows on individuals is to great to give up.

      Meanwhile, Bitcoin is inferior to all centrally controlled currencies and wealth transfer protocols because the freedom it bestows on individuals is too great to allow.

      Conclusion: People are afraid of change.

      Maybe e-mail isn't as great as you think and replacing it with a collection of centrally managed services provided by for-profit entities, or perhaps government controlled services, is a good idea. Without more evidence and a lot more careful thought it is difficult to say what benefits humanity more.

    5. Re:Decentralization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See here:
      http://incubator.apache.org/wave/
      and specifically for activity, here:
      http://incubator.apache.org/wave/mailing-lists.html
      --according to the mailing list archives there is activity as recently as tomorrow (I guess...someone in Europe or Asia)
      --according to the code commits archive there has been code updates as recently as today.

  20. You select the right tool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .... for the job.

  21. Electronic/Digital Mail, will it go away? by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

    I can't see it "going away", globally... in every niche area.

    A system whereby you enclose a message and propose a recipient or recipients,
    and both sender and recipient have copies that can be saved. I can't see that,
    going away entirely, without something that addresses everything that email
    can do AND fix everything it can't do, or does poorly.

    As far as mainstream for the 'everyman', it has already gone away folks.
    You just haven't realized it yet.

    -AI

    --
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
  22. Sigh... I miss "Wave" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such a good idea, handled so badly...

    Google Wave is still the single best example of what a really social app would look and act like. And the framework was so well set up... I miss it. But hopefully like HyperCard it's ideas will end up sort of working their way into other systems over time.

  23. Email's replacement will just be more secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Email's replacement will rely heavily on PKI. You'll encrypt the message with recipient's public key (and optionally sign it with a private key). The recipient's mail agent will immediately reject anything that he can't decode with his private key, and everyone will have a white list of the public keys of preferred senders. In most cases, you'll end up in SPAM if you don't sign it or if you're not on the white list.

    Now suppose you "cold mailed" someone you know, and your message ended up in their spam folder because you're not on the white list. Not to worry! Just contact them through some other means and tell them your public key. They'll be able to insert the key into their mail agent, and it'll automatically recover your message from the spam folder into their inbox.

    1. Re:Email's replacement will just be more secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In case it wasn't obvious, Facebook (or its replacement) will likely serve as the "other means," since it will have a built-in web of trust.

    2. Re:Email's replacement will just be more secure by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      . Not to worry! Just contact them through some other means and tell them your public key. They'll be able to insert the key into their mail agent, and it'll automatically recover your message from the spam folder into their inbox.

      That defeats the whole point of that communication channel. Email addresses that problem by being open, I can just email someone and they'll receive it.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    3. Re:Email's replacement will just be more secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but that's email's biggest flaw. In 20 years, you'll be the only one left using the old system, because the rest of us are fed up with spam.

    4. Re:Email's replacement will just be more secure by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Spam is a total non-issue for me, I never see it. Unless I want to switch the filter off. Spam is no longer an issue with correct spam filtering.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  24. Post Email?? by mgichoga · · Score: 1

    What death is he talking about? E-mail's life cycle will come full circle - we'll go back to the old reliable pine.

  25. "What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Hey, Dave"
    "Hey, dude"
    *shakes hand*
    "Buy you a beer?"
    "Sure!"
    *buys dude a beer*
    "So where shall we sit?"
    "How about on the deck?"
    "Sure. So what you been up to?" ...

    1. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      "Hey, Dave"
      "Hey, dude"
      *shakes hand*

      Shame you posted this AC...

      it is a very insightful look into something that is missing from
      a lot of people's lives.

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    2. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Shame you posted this AC..."

      I stopped posting logged in. I realized my ego was starting to interfere with the content of my posts. No identity, no ego to feed.

      Beside, posting anonymously didn't seem to hinder your ability to see my point.

    3. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      Beside, posting anonymously didn't seem to hinder your ability to see my point.

      My desire to see a gleaming gem occasionally, has me still perusing at '0'.

      At least it's up to 1 now.

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    4. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "My desire to see a gleaming gem occasionally, has me still perusing at '0'."

      As we all should.

      Ever notice the "Popular Stories!" section of most online news outlets? CNN has one--it shows the 5 most read stories currently on their website. My local paper has one as well and I performed a little social interaction test on their site. I found an article on their website that was of little interest to most people, and proceeded to click the link to the article over and over, closing the resulting window each time. I did this for a little over an hour before the article popped up on the "Most Popular!" list.

      Then I stopped clicking.

      I then watched, over the course of the next 3 hours, as the article climbed up one more position on the list, then another. So, an article that previously had no interest suddenly went up two positions on that list...simply because it was on that list.

      I see the "View at..." slider on Slashdot as promoting the exact same effect--posts that get modded up even one point suddenly have a MUCH greater chance of getting further points, not simply by virtue of being informative or insightful, but simply because they are being viewed more as a result of the slider settings. As far as I am concerned, this breaks the entire moderation system down into something that is less then what I think the moderation system was meant to be, not to mention creating an environment more easily manipulated by astro-turfing and sheer maliciousness.

      Glad to see I'm not the only one viewing at "0".

    5. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Beside, posting anonymously didn't seem to hinder your ability to see my point."

      But then again, it seems my posts are being deleted (including the one you quoted), so maybe not.

      This post IS a test.

    6. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

      "This post IS a test."

      No longer posting anonymously as the test was conclusive (and no, Slashdot is not deleting posts).

      When posting as an Anonymous Coward, if you post more then three posts in a given thread, the Anonymous Coward will no longer be able to see any of their own posts beyond the SECOND post. BUT, if the same poster logs in, all the posts made as the Anonymous Coward will now be visible.

      A mechanism to defeat Trolls that constantly re-post?

    7. Re:"What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?" by tftp · · Score: 1

      it is a very insightful look into something that is missing from a lot of people's lives.

      I don't find that "missing piece" valuable. It's far more important to discuss things with people wherever they are, at their convenience. Meeting people in person locks you into a local circle of acquaintances. You might as well buy a time machine and move back into Middle Ages. I, for one, prefer the world where distances are inconsequential.

  26. I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by unimacs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think the older generation like myself still prefer email to texting. Personally, I like email because an immediate response is not expected. I'm much funnier when I have time to think about it. ;-)

    I'm also less likely to say something I'll regret later and there is a record. In my opinion there will always be room for that type of communication.

    Younger people seem to prefer texting or Skype because communication is more real-time and it's easier to include more people. It also allows them to be braver than they would be over the phone. This is not always good.

    1. Re:I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      OMFG... faxes.... as a former residential real estate agent... I cringed daily as I had
      to keep up the dead tree ritual to make everyone happy.

      I was fully equipped for pdf and docusign. But there were still a few steps that almost
      everyone universally demanded dead trees be involved.

      I hope the tablet revolution has changed that. Any current RE's? Is your MLS at least
      browser friendly now? And you don't have to print those out too.

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    2. Re:I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      While I'm old and I like my email, the one good thing about IM-like systems is that group chats easily contain their context in the scrollback, and when dealing with professionals, can be kept concise and on-topic with a fairly large number of participants. Email lists tend toward late responses and thread fragmentation given the same usage scenario.

    3. Re:I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I'm waiting for analog FAXes to die. But the concept of FAXing with a dumb machine at the console is a good one. What I'd like to see an a method of IP FAXing where you fax using domain names. fax1.domain.com, fax2.domain.com, etc. So simple that even a ditsy bimbo blond of a receptionist can use it.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    4. Re:I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      yeah, we could call it email with scanned attachment. it will revolutionize the fax as we know it

    5. Re:I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Scan to e-mail is nothing new. I'm simply stating that paper in paper out at both locations would be nice over IP.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    6. Re:I'm still waiting for FAXes to die by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      but that's just a printer if you want.

  27. The Road... by gatfirls · · Score: 1

    ...Maybe a bit worse.

  28. Last I checked... by korgitser · · Score: 1

    ...it looked like google wave. But I guess that wasn't future enough.

    Now that I thought about it for a couple of minutes, the future of e-mail consists solely of the X-Thread-Id header, which will finally allow to properly sort the friggin' archives. A quick google says that X-Thread-Id has already been proposed by someone in '09!

    Once implemented, it will make e-mail 'feature-complete', which translates into english roughly as 'old, boring and forgotten'. After that it will be mostly impossible to get work done, so everyone will become a hipster or die grumpy. Thus the end of our beloved civilization, and the rise of the planet of apes or whatever.

    --
    FCKGW 09F9 42
  29. Invisible e-mail by Sketchly · · Score: 1

    I can't wait to read my first 'invisible e-mail'. Will I need special glasses?

  30. It's called Facebook by alen · · Score: 1

    Email is for work
    But for non work communication its Facebook
    10 years ago all the stupid jokes and pictures were emailed to friends. Today they are shared on Facebook

    1. Re:It's called Facebook by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      somebody tell my aunt. she keeps sending me entire .wmv files attached to chain emails about this heroic serviceman or that cute religious fallacy. she might be family but she will soon be marked as spam.

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    2. Re:It's called Facebook by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      10 years ago all the stupid jokes and pictures were emailed to friends. Today they are shared on Facebook

      For which I am very grateful Facebook serves as a dumping ground for all the crap I would normally have to delete.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  31. How by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Its a bit like those History/NATGEO programs about 'Life After People' - the whole question is, what happened to the people will determine what it would look like.
    The main thing that will cause the end of email is a disaster that would wipe out civilization. (Gamma Ray Burst,, dinosaur killer asteroid, supervolcano, genetically engineered plague, or Vogon Constructor fleet etc.

  32. Mail and Packages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no need for junk mail, bills, etc. via the postal service. The need is the transport of material goods.

  33. eMail...email...? by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

    Email has a human form factor appropriate for non-audio human communication.

    Email is a direct decedent of chipped-stone and clay-tablets. Humans' need a language (audio, visual ...), and society needs records and documents.

    IOW: Written email (stone, clay, paper ...) will continue to evolve, until societies crumble and humans go extinct.

    What is the next step in societies creating records and documents for transmission (print-share-keep mail, telegraph, email ...)? Maybe we will call it eGraph or ether-image, but the basic human purpose/need will be continued.

    --
    Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
  34. Email won't vanish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Email will always have its place as a message that I send to you. It's the electronic equivalent of a letter.

    Sure, I use other tools for other things - I often have conversations with some kind of instant message system, rather than email (but 15 years ago I was having these conversations with talk - not email). Facebook is the electronic equivalent of sitting out on the street chatting with your friends.

    And here's the thing - I don't want all my communication to seamlessly fall into the same place. If you have to speak to me right now, and it's important, I want you to phone me. If you don't need an answer right now, I don't want my phone to ring - I want an email, so I can answer at a time that it convenient for me. If I want to sit on the front porch and shoot the shit, I'll go to my front porch - I don't want my porch to interrupt me while I'm doing something else.

    1. Re:Email won't vanish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right - it's all about using the right tool for the job. If I'm working on a complex coding issue and I need some clarification I'm not going to try and hash it out over IM or Twitter or a text message. I'm going to compose a long, detailed email message (that might include screenshots, etc.), send it out and work on something else until I get a reply. If it's a simple yes/no question I might just fire off a quick IM and get more or less immediate feedback.

      But here's the thing....if this issue has even the remotest of possibilities of biting me in the ass somewhere down the road you can be sure it will be in an email. And I'll probably get a return receipt on it too. And if I don't get an answer within a reasonable time I will escalate it to the recipient's boss and if necessary, their boss too. Email might seem antiquated but it can save your butt as well. IM's, text messages and other sorts of communications will simply vanish into the ether unless you take steps to preserve them.

  35. No by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    any article whose headline is a question can be answered "no."

    --
    insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What would a post email world look like?"

      "No."

      Sure, that makes sense. Well done regurgitating a post from literally every /. article with a "?" at the end of it. Occasionally, at least some of them made sense.

      Insightful, honestly.

    2. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A: What Would a Post-Email World Look Like?
      Q: No

    3. Re:No by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      lmao, i didn't mod this up insightful. i agree with you, it's sad. i was going for funny.

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
  36. I have an ultra-simple idea to improve email by blubadger · · Score: 1

    Add two new headers, both random strings. One as ID for the message, the other the ID of the parent message. This would allow email clients to understand the relationships between messages – eliminating at a stroke (1) the ugly "Re: " in the subject, (2) the messy compounded quoting at the bottom of emails, and (3) the "possibly a reply to..." nonsense in certain email archiving software.

    It's so obvious that I don't understand why it hasn't been done already. Perhaps I'm missing something.

    1. Re:I have an ultra-simple idea to improve email by russotto · · Score: 1

      It's so obvious that I don't understand why it hasn't been done already. Perhaps I'm missing something.

      Before you go rushing off to the patent office, look up "NNTP". (then give the patent office a try anyway, they've probably never heard of it)

    2. Re:I have an ultra-simple idea to improve email by blubadger · · Score: 1

      Thanks, nice point. But then NNTP is a protocol not a media type. My idea, which cannot possibly be original, would just add one very simple and useful feature to the Internet Message Format (defined as RFC5322). I suppose some software maker, Google for instance, could just push this unilaterally with a new custom header. For some reason it hasn't happened.

    3. Re:I have an ultra-simple idea to improve email by virx · · Score: 0

      You mean Message-ID and In-Reply-To and References headers?

    4. Re:I have an ultra-simple idea to improve email by russotto · · Score: 1

      RFC5322 already includes Message-Id:, In-Reply-To: and References:

  37. Streaming Email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Transparently streaming email through series of IPv6 pipes. The submitter must be onto something great here.

  38. The "Wave" ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... of the future will almost certainly see less email. We've been working with a few teens the last few months and I can tell you that e-mail is low on their list of electronic communications. Text, Facebook, IM and then if all else fails, they turn to email. If I send them an email ... I usually have to call them and tell them to go look for it. E-mail is old fashioned to them.

  39. Email vs. post-email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think the one thing they only briefly allude to in TFA is the fact that email can be sent to anyone with email. That is why it is so ubiquitous.

    You can't send a FB message to a G+ user. If you do G+, you need a gmail account, and you can't send a message to a FB user, etc.. But if you have email, it doesn't matter if you have hotmail, excite, lycos, or a backwater account on a VAX, anyone with email can reach you. It's the complete opposite of a walled-garden approach, and so long as the "successors" to email try to be walled gardens, they will fail.

    A corporation is by necessity a walled garden, so those sorts of internal approaches may work under those conditions, but for overall usage by individuals, I think not.

    1. Re:Email vs. post-email by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      A corporation is by necessity a walled garden, so those sorts of internal approaches may work under those conditions, but for overall usage by individuals, I think not.

      Some corporations do wall off email so that users can only email within the corporate network.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  40. Predicting it's death by hobarrera · · Score: 2

    Who's been predicting the death of email for years? I haven't heard of anything like that, nor have I noticed any reduction in the usage of email.
    On the contrary, with smartphones, I've noticed IM and email are slowly replacing SMSs.

    1. Re:Predicting it's death by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      who? people who don't think it's email if the name of the client is eudora-chat instead of eudora-mail.

      in other words, stupid fucks who also think personal computer dies when they decide they want to use an on-screen keyboard for typing.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Predicting it's death by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      I always thought Nostradamus made a convincing argument.

    3. Re:Predicting it's death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who want you to sign up for their spiffy new social network. Oh, and you'll need an e-mail address to confirm your registration...

      - T

  41. Everything Should Be Email by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2

    Email is actually an excellent form of communication. It's so flexible that every realtime and async messaging system could be usefully transacted over email (and often is), at least every message could use the email data formats (Subject/To/From/Cc/Bcc/Attachment/Body fields, MIME headers, X-whatever arbitrary tuples, etc). In fact every message sent with at least one human endpoint should be transcribable into RFC822/etc emails as a test of its utility and completeness. I had a friend in the 1990s who firmly believed TCP/IP should be restandardized with every packet required to be formatted as a separate email. That's too far (unless packets were bigger), but not wholly wrongheaded.

    I hope email never goes away. I do hope that email gets much better message databases and presentation UIs, better integration with non-email messaging (in the same, integrated messaging systems). For example I'd like my every Slashdot post (and other Web transactions) to be indexed in my own storage in email format, and I'd like my emails to be able to HTTP POST/GET/PUT from my MUA. I hope that email finally gets better standardized structure of message bodies, especially for quoting by pointer with attribution, and more nonlinear structures of message sequences. Especially branching and quoting multiple previous generation messages, as well as from separate threads, in a single reply, which maintain coherence among threads.

    But that's just better email, not post-email. More and better email would make the world a better place. I hope it does.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Everything Should Be Email by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      With over 500 messages a day (no spam), my email is pretty much useless. What I need is a "default block" option, where I have to grant someone the ability to send me email. There are about 10 people who actually send me useful email. and the list I would have to sort through would be much shorter.

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
    2. Re:Everything Should Be Email by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      There are whitelists, and every email app lets you sort incoming email into folders by criteria like sender. Sort only your favorite senders into the priority folder and read only that one until you have more time or interest.

      BTW, 500+ nonspam messages means you're trying to communicate with too many people/orgs. You should simplify your connections, not just your email.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  42. Low usage by 18-24 year olds due to unemployment? by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Low usage by 18-24 year olds may be due to heavy unemployment in that group. Social networking is fine for getting people together to go out, but if you have to organize anything complex, you need a more persistent medium. Try organizing something more complex than meeting at a bar over SMS. Even trying to organize something over Facebook is tough. It's fine for casual chat, but the "everything scrolls off" approach is no good when there are actual tasks to do and track.

    For big, complex, highly structured projects, there are decent collaboration tools. Open source projects have had forums systems coupled to bug trackers coupled to source code management for years. There are comparable systems for specific problems, like Autodesk Vault for mechanical engineers and Alienbrain for game developers. Tools for medium-sized loose collaboration have been built, but haven't developed big followings. (Google Wave was supposed to be usable for that.) Those still tend to be run via e-mail.

    There's also the problem that single-source "cloud" services tend to go away after a few years. If you were using Google Wave for anything important, you were screwed. This sounds like a case for an open source project, but open source will never get "user friendly" right.

  43. Towards a social semantic desktop by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    See my comments here: http://ibiblio.org/pjones/blog/looking-back-on-noemail-at-6-weeks/comment-page-1/#comment-441324

    And here: http://ibiblio.org/pjones/blog/2008-ibm-predicts-five-future-trends-that-will-drive-unified-communications-read-more-ibm-predicts-5-future-trends-that-will-drive-unified-communications/comment-page-1/#comment-441613

    And here: http://groups.google.com/group/diaspora-dev/browse_thread/thread/4cd369bdf16a346f

    And here: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/576771df555e729f

    And a related back-burner open source project by me (being passed by): http://sourceforge.net/projects/pointrel/

    And by others: http://www.semanticdesktop.org/
    http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Semantic_Desktop
    "The Internet, electronic mail, and the Web have revolutionized the way we communicate and collaborate - their mass adoption is one of the major technological success stories of the 20th century. We all are now much more connected, and in turn face new resulting problems: information overload caused by insufficient support for information organization and collaboration. For example, sending a single file to a mailing list multiplies the cognitive processing effort of filtering and organizing this file times the number of recipients - leading to more and more of peoples' time going into information filtering and information management activities. There is a need for smarter and more fine-grained computer support for personal and networked information that has to blend the boundaries between personal and group data, while simultaneously safeguarding privacy and establishing and deploying trust among collaborators. The Semantic Web holds promises for information organization and selective access, providing standards means for formulating and distributing metadata and Ontologies. Still, we miss a wide use of Semantic Web technologies on personal computers. ..."

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  44. Must be a godsend. by csumpi · · Score: 2

    To the people you "communicate" with. Because now they can very easily ignore you. Apparently you don't have anything important to communicate, you don't have bosses or clients (or do they also have to be your followers to receive communication from you?).

    In fact this is the best thing social media did: got rid of all the lolz-cats-licking-must-watch, political activism and check-what-i-did-in-band-camp spam. Now if I get email, I know it's important.

    1. Re:Must be a godsend. by sureshot007 · · Score: 1

      In fact this is the best thing social media did: got rid of all the lolz-cats-licking-must-watch, political activism and check-what-i-did-in-band-camp spam. Now if I get email, I know it's important.

      If only I had mod points!!!!

      I didn't realize this until you said it, but you are absolutely right! I don't get any more "FWD:FWD:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: OMG LOOK AT THIS!" emails anymore, or any of those "Send this to everyone in your address book 10 times!" messages.

      All of the sudden, I discovered the true value of Facebook.

  45. Telepathic! by antdude · · Score: 1

    People say I e-mail too much. I joked that e-mails become telepathic so I will spam their brains. Heheh!

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  46. pop quiz! by sdnoob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    what do facebook, myspace, twitter, google plus, blogspot, linkedin, flickr, skype, itunes, msn (and other) instant messengers, youtube, and just about every other web service (free and subscription-based) have in common?

    ____

    you need a bloody email address to signup for an account.

    email ain't going anywhere.

    1. Re:pop quiz! by Tom · · Score: 1

      But in these cases, they don't really use the messaging functionality of e-mail addresses. They use the unique identifier functionality.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  47. "E-mail may be on the decline" by dskoll · · Score: 1

    "The moon may be made of green cheese"

    "The Earth may be flat"

    "A tech journalist may not be lazy"

  48. As long as we're still human... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even amongst our technological age, email will only die when people forget how to communicate with letters.

  49. Replacement for Email! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're exactly right, Wave was ahead of its time. Email is being replaced by Social networking.

  50. I receive almost no spam. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You apparently don't know how to properly manage your email accounts. I use email every day without receiving any spam *at all* in some of them, and hardly any in the others (and the spam filters catch it anyway). And my email clients are plenty usable.

    Seriously, you are doing it wrong. I can't blame you though...it seems like most people can't be troubled into figuring out how to manage their online identity.

  51. It won't go away. by ZorinLynx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    E-mail will not go away as long as the Internet maintains its structure where no single entity controls it.

    Think about it: What do you need in order to sign up for a Facebook, Twitter, Steam, or pretty much any online account? An e-mail address.

    Right now the only truly guaranteed way two random people online can contact each other is e-mail. Not everyone has a Facebook account. Not everyone is on Twitter, or on AIM. But everyone online has an e-mail address, even if they don't use it very much, because you NEED one to sign up for these services! :)

    1. Re:It won't go away. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Heck, my mother has an email account, and she doesn't even have a computer. Technically, I set it up for her, and she's never even logged onto it, but it was needed to get a price reduction on something.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  52. A project to do just that.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not seeking funding anymore, but would like to convert to an open source project...

    http://www.indiegogo.com/Codename-Rally

    Take a look and let me know your feedback.

  53. Paperless Office by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 4, Informative

    Paperless Offices work great. I have worked in one for 6 years. I print one document out a year that I then sign and fax to my consulting firms HR department. The client is an insurance company. The really experienced people bring out photos of what the place looked like before they stated going paperless some 15 to 20 years ago. Desks after desk covered in folders filled with paper. They would show us conference rooms that used to be storage for filing cabinets. The place was dirty with paper. Paperless for an insurance company means the following. When you buy insurance from an agent the agent types your info into a computer. When you get in a accident the claim handler pulls up that information and adds more information to the database. At no point is any paper produced internally. Paper leaves the company in the form of bills, policy documents, and ads. Paper comes in the system via mail from police departments, vendors, and policy holders. This paper is given to a data entry person and inputted into the database. It may get scanned. If the company is not legally required to hang on to it the paper is trashed. This is what paperless office means.

  54. Links to Wave-related information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I replied to a couple people but thought this worth posting directly:

    What was originally known as Google Wave is really a "federated" system just like email - anyone can run a server, and communications between entities go from client to their server to the 3rd party server to the end client, just like email. The difference is it happens in near-real-time with far less latency than email, including the ability to work "live" with someone else collaboratively on a single document, seeing what each other types character-by-character and where they move their cursor - I've done this with 4 other people all working on one document, it is awesomely effective. Waves can be non-realtime email-like conversations, or nearly-real-time-but-still-hidden-until-you-hit-send like IM or fully-near-real-time like webex style screen sharing. Wave has the ability to integrate with, and thereby eventually replace, email, IM, corporate wiki, and many other services in an ever expanding web as is only possible with a non-centrally-controlled solution. Facebook, Microsoft, and even Google cannot kill off all other forms of communications in the way Wave has the potential to do.

    Wave is still alive and being "incubated" by the Apache Foundation (you know, the web server people), more info here:
    http://incubator.apache.org/wave/

    Specific activity on the project can be seen in the mailing list and code commit 'archives' here:
    http://incubator.apache.org/wave/mailing-lists.html

    Related, some of the community developers are hosting Wave servers for you to use freely for yourself and even your company (if you don't mind using a hosted service on a "bleeding edge" development server), such as this one here:
    http://waveinabox.net/

  55. Not a paperless office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like your not working in a paperless office. Incident management(help desk tickets for software) is done via an application where I work. I don't think there is even a way to print things out in the application. Even if I could print something out I would have no place to put it. My desk has no drawers and there are no filing cabinets. The floor of the building I work in has one printer on it. We work using laptops at cubicles. These are temporary seating assignments. They shuffle us around about every 6 months based on the project. Walking up to someone and getting a signature is not even physically possible. The people we are doing tickets for work all over the country. Communication is done via email, telephone and im.

  56. Well-The Inkless office. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    E-paper (E-ink based paper) combined with NF (Near field) communications will spell the end of that trend and usher in the paperless office.

  57. Video mail will replace email-past returns. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your comment is funny in an ironic way. I'm old enough to remember the first softphones and later when video capability arrived, and the audio back then did indeed sound like it came from the bottom of a barrel and early video was small and buffered a lot. Now we sit here and Skype around the world with audio quality even better than the phone company and can have video conferences.

  58. Video mail will replace emai-Asus. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:Video mail will replace emai-Asus. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asus video phone

      That's nice, but I have Skype on my Android and a couple of buddies who do as well, and we just video chat that way. Bonus is that i don't even need phone service as the device has wi-fi, all I need is an AP.

  59. The link at the end of the article... by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...invites you to "Email article."

  60. I'll believe it when I see it. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    FFS, we still have rotary telephones!

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  61. Video mail will replace email-cameras. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People already have video on any smart phone, too. Nobody uses it.

    Not quite. People have the screen, the microphone and speaker, and the back facing camera. What most phones don't have is the front-facing camera.

  62. I don't have a problem by Chirs · · Score: 1

    Currently I get mail through work and though my university alumni account. I work from home, and I get maybe one spam a day out of dozens of emails, certainly nothing to worry about. I have no issues with broken clients or broken servers.

    For me at least email works and works well.

  63. Well, it might look like by Compaqt · · Score: 1
    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  64. Email was designed to work like a letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like how the first electric lights were designed to look like gas lamps, email is a digital translation of the letter. And letter writing is a challenging communication form. Wonderful when it's done well, but not as easy as it looks. Just writing an appropriate subject line is beyond most people's capability (in my experience). And then keeping the conversation pertinent to the subject line is hard, since people tend to drift back and forth between subjects in normal conversation. Email and the people who developed it back in the 80s deserve a great deal of admiration, but it's definitely worth our while to consider an alternative.

  65. email is for adults by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah the young sconies send each other zinger-tags and throw digital pies. Email is not dying; it's just not as fun for the kiddies. Email is what you use for serious business and personal communication not passing around poot jokes. They will use it when they get older.

    Most "youth" are not into writing letters either. It's boring and time consuming. Postcards maybe?

  66. Unemployment ahead... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    ...in Nigeria

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  67. Interconnect Social Networks by SMTP-like-standard by roger_pasky · · Score: 1

    No interconnection means great useless silos. SMTP is the nowadays latin interlingo among companies. I'm hopeless because FB, G+, TT and the like should become a federation (at least in the inter-posting-protocol), which is quite difficult to achieve. In an ideal goal, post shouldn't actually travel, but notifications, and your favourite post-browser would be just a viewer (non storer) of the posted-outside messages. To make it nore complicated, there should be sort of a "ad earnings clearing house" to make it profitable for everyone. I don't think it'll happen ever. Long live to SMTP.

  68. But what will happen.. by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

    ... to all those play-by-mail games on Steam?

  69. Not so quickly by foksoft · · Score: 1
    And what technology / service will that old e-mail replace?

    - I haven't seen any replacement for encryption / digital signatures
    - I still didn't figure how to mark what I have read and what not on services like FB or G+
    - I haven't realized how to mark a post for immediate response of for getting to it later
    - I haven't realized how to move a message to specific place so I can use it for reference later
    - I haven't found a way to setup my own / corporate server, so I can be sure that my business will continue in case such service will go under

    But what I have already learned with e-mail.
    - its delivery is almost instant like any other service
    - if I need it, I can work with it offline (on the plain, train, ship, ...)

  70. Historically by Epell · · Score: 1

    Historically, one mode of data transmission has been replaced by another more faster mean.
    Only reason traditional mail service held out so long is because it could transmit relatively large amount of data until the coming of email
    (you couldn't exactly write a paragraph on a telegram)

    Considering how email can send large amount of data at near instant speed, I don't think email will go away.

  71. Re: Obligitory B5 by captjc · · Score: 1

    I already posted this above, but this is still obligatory.

    "Every time someone says we're becoming a paperless society, I get ten more forms to fill out!"

    --
    Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  72. Whistling Past by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Many people here have switched to online bill pay, and most banks offer automatic payment if the company (rarely) doesn't do bill to credit card.

    Paperless paychecks and automated bill pays are about as reckless as electronic voting machines. 'They' say they're perfectly secure... and you have no choice but to trust them. Think about it: one major solar flare or the financial version of Stuxnet, and your bank has no record of the paycheck your company's records clearly show they deposited. Your ISP cut off your account because your virtual check virtually bounced and without Internet access, all the rest of your bills are now overdue...

    BTW, within the breezy attittude of online and automatic (shudder) bill pays is the assumption that one *always* has a plethora of 'cash' in the bank to easily cover any out-sized or unexpected bill without going into the red; quite the 1% arrogance, that.

    When you've set up a system where you may not have even one scrap of paper to show as proof of worth or payments, that has to be the loudest whistling past the graveyard since the Subprime pyramid scheme.

    1. Re:Whistling Past by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Paying all your bills with mailed checks every month isn't really that much better and is probably prone to even more error. The money still has to be drawn against your bank, who's records are still all electronic and hence vulnerable. You have to count on your check being delivered, and on time. Someone at the recieving end has to not screw up the process of posting your check against your account balance with them and depositing it at the bank. The bank then still has to not screw up the handling of the paper check and posting it to your account.

      The one single advantage you point out is the receipt from the bank acknowledging your deposit and possibly balance at some specific point in time. Which really means squat because anything could have happened after that receipt was issued. That is if you can even prove that the receipt is authentic and not a forgery.

      I'm not in the 1% by a long shot, I think I'm in the 15% or maybe 14% bracket. But I have enough cash balances to cover close to a years worth of spending at current levels. I understand that many people don't have that much of a buffer, if they have one at all. But that's actually an advantage of the new systems since you can get near realtime account balances. The old method, balancing a check book, is good but which do you seriously think is more prone to error?

  73. Dear $Slashvertiser: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear $Slashvertiser:

    Like so many times in the past, I am still not even remotely interested in having you "unify my communications stream". I like the discrete mediums I have for many reasons including the fact that they are discrete mediums. I don't particularly care to have my chats and emails intermingled and while I don't mind getting a COPY of voicemails or faxes in my inbox, it is imperative that my voicemails remain on the PBX and my faxes remain on the fax machine/server.

    Google's(If $Slashvertiser != Google) Gmail is trying to combine my social and my chants and my phone calls into my email and I don't like it. I dislike the unification to the point that I avoid using the product. You might think it's cool or the next killer app, but it is a solution in search of a problem. A problem that I don't have.

    I'm not interested in your product/idea. Do not want. Thanks anyway.

    FOAD

  74. chat an obnoxious intrusion by rubycodez · · Score: 1

    email might not be answered right away, but chat is a demand for immediate response. we need a chat bot to respond on our behalf, "get fucked, send me an email and I'll get around to it, or not"

  75. Re:Low usage by 18-24 year olds due to unemploymen by stenyak · · Score: 1

    Wave protocol was designed from the ground up to be decentralized ("multiple-source" if you will, "federated" in wave jargon). Just like email. Initially only two wave servers were available (GoogleWave for the public, and GoogleWaveSandbox for developers). Currently, those two are down, but others have appeared (e.g. waveinabox.net and many private wave servers, like mine).