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Touch Interfaces In Cars Difficult To Use

An anonymous reader points out an article about touchscreen dash interfaces in cars (in particular Cadillac's "CUE" interface). From the article: "I do not recall anyone ever complaining about the iOS interface and there have been plenty of attempts to replicate the experience and its flow of control. ... As simple as iOS may appear on the surface, it is incredibly well-executed balance that matches the requirements of a touch interface for phones, tablets and other horizontal screen devices. Changing the user scenario, hardware, or software will alter the requirements for the desired user experience as well. ... CUE is not as transparent in its usage as, for example, the iPhone. We are used to certain buttons that are located on the dash – sliders and dials that we expect in places that we can quickly memorize. In the end, you want to be able to reach for such a button without taking your eyes off the road. There are no such buttons on the XTS dash. Instead, there are some capacitive touch buttons for basic climate controls, audio volume and seat heating/cooling. Since the buttons are activated by touch, they feel the same." A touchscreen UI for some functions sounds perfectly sane (how do I set the clock again?), but ditching all of the dash buttons sounds like a recipe for disaster. I've heard from iPod users (and my own experience with my long-dead Neuros echos) that the click wheel was easy to use blindly; the move to a touchscreen made it impossible to use without looking at it.

233 comments

  1. Never a good idea.. by red+crab · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Using touch screen controls on a car is akin to texting on your mobile; taking eyes off the road to see your dashboard or stereo controls is an inherently bad idea.

    1. Re:Never a good idea.. by Rei · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've worked in the field before, and you're absolutely right. Thankfully, there's a lot of people who realize how bad these systems are and are working to come up up with more tactile solutions. Popular approaches are things like steering wheel buttons for controls with sounds to help keep you sure of what function you're operating on. Ultimately, the car is likely headed to a system where there are multiple dumb screens networked into a single "smartphone"-like compute platform for the vehicle. The screens provide independent interfaces but can display common shared applications being run by the compute platform, such as the current route on a GPS app or the currently playing music in a music/radio app. The driver's is the same display as the speedometer and other gauges, is not a touch screen (obviously), and is designed only for quick glances to get summary information while only moving the eyes a few degrees from the windshield. The center dash can go away, since drivers shouldn't be having to look over that far and mess with things over there, and since thus it makes more sense to have the passenger's display right in front of them (requires a bit of airbag/glove box repositioning, but is doable). Freeing up the center console and getting rid of all of these independent, heavy, inefficient standalone "boxes" (which often work poorly together) in lieu of a single embedded multifunction platform provides a massive number of benefits, from more interior design options for what to do with that extra space to reduced wiring costs, reduced weight, dramatically reduced power consumption, upgradeability, security, and on and on. It's the future of vehicles. The Tier 1s won't like it, as their entire business is built on said "boxes", but they'll have to deal with it sooner or later.

      --
      We're practicing our labials.
    2. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if the problem could be fixed by using gestures when the vehicle is in motion. This is something I've always wished I had on my iPod when I'm driving around (my car doesn't have the native support).

    3. Re:Never a good idea.. by crutchy · · Score: 5, Funny

      using gestures

      turn steering wheel to the left => reduce stereo volume
      turn steering wheel to the right => increase stereo volume

      can't get much more tactile than that :)

    4. Re:Never a good idea.. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is why Siri and Google both are epic failures on their voice control. If I ask for something verbally and the phone returns something to display, that is a complete EPIC fail.

      And it seems that caddilac also wants to follow this epic failure path. although not as bad as companies like kenwood or Clarion. Ever try to use one of those aftermarket stereos? Their UI designers and programmers are some of the WORST in the industry.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Never a good idea.. by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even push buttons that aren't easily identifiable by touch is a problem. If you can't identify with touch you must take your eye off the road.

      And too many push buttons in a row all identical is a nightmare.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    6. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Tier 1s will just be replaced with new Tier 1s.

      Out with Harman and Continental. In with Sony and Samsung.

    7. Re:Never a good idea.. by Dupple · · Score: 4, Funny

      using gestures

      turn steering wheel to the left => reduce stereo volume

      turn steering wheel to the right => increase stereo volume

      can't get much more tactile than that :)

      Turn left - crash into vehicle
      Turn right - cash into vehicle
      Air bags deployed.
      Other motorists punch you for causing an accident - You can't get much more tactile than that!

      --
      Watch those corners
    8. Re:Never a good idea.. by crutchy · · Score: 1

      Turn left - crash into vehicle Turn right - cash into vehicle

      that's not very marketable... you would at least need to provide other options to crash into, such as trees, farm animals, or justin bieber... instead of a GTO you would have a GTA

    9. Re:Never a good idea.. by hattig · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good post, and certainly describes the future of the car dashboard - hopefully in the near term rather than the long term!

      Certainly a single display can replace all of the current dials, and also instead of, e.g., "Engine Warning" icon lighting up, it can say "Your O2 sensor is broken". When using steering wheel functions (only buttons needed are "function select" and "home (back to standard dash display)" ("up"/"down","home", left hand side of steering wheel) and "function adjust" ("up"/"down"/"disable", right hand side of steering wheel)) or voice control, the display can alter to show what you're changing directly, or even better it can be reflected off of the windscreen so the driver's eyes are never off the road. Maybe a "back" button. Hmm, pretty close to the buttons on an Android phone really.

      All of the centre console gubbins can be eradicated. Who needs a bulky CD player when you can slot in a $20 32GB SD card with your entire music collection on it, or just have the car get the music off your phone/tablet (which in turn could be pulling it from your server at home)?

      And current smartphone platforms are more than adequate for all this already, from a hardware point of view, but maybe the software isn't quite there yet for car control. Still, the latest version of Eclipse is available in a version for car application development, so things are clearly moving in the right direction.

      I think the primary input has to be voice, with steering wheel buttons as a backup. Using buttons to select using the dash display will still take the driver's eyes off the road, whereas "turn on air conditioning", "volume down 50%" simply won't. Even if you need a "speech control" button on the steering wheel.

      In fact, the Microsoft Steering Wheel is 100% buttons, all square and different colours, each controlling directly their own function.

    10. Re:Never a good idea.. by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Which is why Siri and Google both are epic failures on their voice control. If I ask for something verbally and the phone returns something to display, that is a complete EPIC fail.

      Google for "Siri Eyes Free".

    11. Re:Never a good idea.. by hattig · · Score: 1

      Definitely, in my mind the best place is on the steering wheel, in a line defined by the sweep of your thumb. You could probably fit four on either side of the steering wheel. The default resting place for your thumb should have the most important button in terms of car UI control - probably "home" to immediately show the standard dashboard display (or "On"/"Accept"), and "Off"/"Reject" for rapid turning off of things, like audio, or rejecting incoming phone calls to the in-car phone.

      Note that they should be on the front of the steering wheel, because behind the steering wheel we already have the stalk controllers, and gear changers on more advanced manual cars.

    12. Re:Never a good idea.. by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      A voice of sanity!

      Seriously, I'm beginning to think that we may need a new economic model.

      What was the problem that they were attempting to solve?

      You've got all these teams of engineers and designers, and so somebody comes up with a crazy plan to totally redesign the UI of a car. Oops, did I say user interface? I meant user "experience".

      Interface is when you go to Walmart. The interface for paying for your stuff is take your shopping cart to the line. Experience is when you go to Nordstrom's. You sit on a sofa and they take your card.

      Everybody wants to give an "experience" these days.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    13. Re:Never a good idea.. by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Using touch screen controls on a car is akin to texting on your mobile; taking eyes off the road to see your dashboard or stereo controls is an inherently bad idea.

      Yup. On it's surface, in the middle, and after analysis the touch-screen in a car idea is monumentally stupid. MAYBE for electronic screens in the back for kids.... but then you have the "greasy non functioning screen" problem.

      The problem is especially compounded when your market is old, probably can't see so well up close, and somewhat technophobic in the first place.

      A better system would be an advanced aircraft like screen, square with simple large graphics and buttons around the edges that change usage depending on the mode. The computer and programming wouldn't be any harder, and you'd have a solid switch. Glance for the color (mode) press third down on the right edge to have the nav map bring up directions for getting "home".

    14. Re:Never a good idea.. by Lord+Lode · · Score: 1

      > and are working to come up up with more tactile solutions.

      Working on? Don't the tactile solutions exist for over a century already? Buttons, wheels and handles.

    15. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think the primary input has to be voice

      Have you ever tried to use voice control / voice input on a phone in a car? I have, many times and I finally quit trying. At first, I thought maybe the problem was my cheap BT headset. So I tried another, and another. I now have a nice Jawbone one. I've tried a few models of phone too. I'll quite clearly say, "Call Cherie Clark on mobile" and the phone will say something like "call 777-123-4567?" (which is not a number even in my contact list). I'll try four or five times - and I'll finally get it to admit it knows who Cherie Clark is, but it will then insist on calling her home number instead of mobile. Yes, this works fine if the car is not moving and the AC is off. It even works in heavy commute traffic at 5 MPH or less - again with the AC turned off or down. But at 55+ MPH with the AC on it is about useless and an exercise in frustration.

      I'd love to see this voice input system in the car. As long as it is only in other people's cars.

    16. Re:Never a good idea.. by FireFury03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      instead of, e.g., "Engine Warning" icon lighting up, it can say "Your O2 sensor is broken".

      Don't be silly, how then would the main dealer be able to charge you a £100 "diagnostic fee" for the 30 second job of plugging an ODB II reader in?

    17. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Funny

      turn steering wheel to the left => reduce stereo volume

      turn steering wheel to the right => increase stereo volume

      can't get much more tactile than that :)

      With a few changes, that might work: Treat the steering wheel as a rotary encoder and have a button that momentarily disconnects it from the wheels. On a straight piece of road it wouldn't be a problem to disconnect the steering for a few seconds.

      You obviously wouldn't want it to activate in a corner so as a safety feature you could make it only work when the steering wheel is straight. Apart from that you have the perfect input device for analog settings like music volume, seat adjustment, cup holder temperature, etc.

      --
      No sig today...
    18. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree in think touch screens in cars are terrible. If you want high tech controls auto manufacturers should use buttons with oled displays that can be redefined on the fly.

    19. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ultimately, the car is likely headed to a system where there are multiple dumb screens networked into a single "smartphone"-like compute platform for the vehicle. The screens provide independent interfaces but can display common shared applications being run by the compute platform

      What about blind people? They have no problem using real buttons, how will they be able to use the new 'smart' system?

      --
      No sig today...
    20. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I think the primary input has to be voice.

      The day I have to go around shouting at all my household devices to get them to do anything is the day I no longer want to live on planet earth.

      --
      No sig today...
    21. Re:Never a good idea.. by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What about blind people? They have no problem using real buttons, how will they be able to use the new 'smart' system?

      They probably shouldn't be driving anyway.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    22. Re:Never a good idea.. by crutchy · · Score: 2

      erm...

    23. Re:Never a good idea.. by hattig · · Score: 1

      Clearly it would be a voice input system that actually works in the car environment, built into the car (not your phone). A pair of microphones (one for noise cancellation) in the steering wheel would probably do the job.

      Clearly programming the GPS with "Find me directions to XYZ" is far easier than navigating a UI with a few buttons, maybe using a touchscreen to get the destination in.

    24. Re:Never a good idea.. by hattig · · Score: 1

      We're talking about voice control for non-simple UIs within a car environment, where the driver should be concentrating on the road and not looking and moving hands around a physical or touchscreen UI.

      We're not talking about setting the volume on your home hifi, or configuring the microwave.

      Or is your car a "household device"? You must have wide hallways.

    25. Re:Never a good idea.. by DigitalSorceress · · Score: 1

      I agree...

      I'd like to see decently tactile steering-wheel mounted buttons with up/down/left/right, ok, and cancel/back
      (sort of like my beloved MX-950 universal remote control) so I can keep my eyes off the controls, and ... well, perfectly, a HUD on the windscreen, but if not that, then a decenly readable screen which is close enough that I'm never ever fully removing my view from the road, and with a UI designed to show just what's needed at a glance and not get too complicated. I think modern mapping GPS a-la Garmin Nuvi / TomTom units are a good example here)

      I think it's a mistake to get too close to even iOS ... iOS id admittedly a lot more streamlined than say a PC desktop, but it's still a bit too busy and detailed to really make a great car interface. It's one of those trade-offs - you want simple and intuitive and minimalist for the driver.

      Most folks I know get to know their car's controls well enough to activate them mostly by feel... touchscreen interfaces are really not going to allow for this unless they come up with a way to make them haptic.

      I love my MINI, but I have to say that the iPod/Sirius interface is incredibly clumsy and doesn't make for easy use while driving.... Yes, one shouldn't be fiddling with stuff instead of paying attention to the road, but there's always a trade off between "the right thing" and "what people do" (admit it, no matter if you should or not, everyone tends to reach over to change the radio station/volume or adjust the heating/cooling while driving - since folks are GOING TO do stuff like that, making the interfaces as intuitive as possible and getting their focus BACK to the road as quickly as possible should be key concerns. /rant

      --

      The Digital Sorceress
    26. Re:Never a good idea.. by dlingman · · Score: 2

      Who wants to yell at household devices? I'll pay a thousand bucks right now if I can get a module that does voice command -> doing things implanted in my kids.

    27. Re:Never a good idea.. by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Temporarily deactivate the steering wheel? You're kidding right?

      The obvious answer is voice recognition. It's already headed there with navigation systems since they are attention intensive without voice feedback. Simple commands like "set the temperature to 70" or "turn the fan to high", or "tune to station 97.1", etc.

      Coming up with multi-function devices on top of current device screens just compounds the problem. They all take attention away (primarily your eyes) from the road. Steering wheel controls are a small step in the right direction, but adding more and more buttons requires someone to memorize them, and each successive button adds a higher chance that someone will mis-remember a button, look down to try and find it among the numerous controls already there, and again you are in the same bad situation.

      Voice commands allow true independence from moving your feet or hands from the controls (assuming a successful implementation).

    28. Re:Never a good idea.. by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      Harman is actually up to speed with touch interface development.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    29. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So instead of taking the eyes off the road, you are taking the steering wheel off the car ?

      What if I need to rotate the car's wheels in a hurry, while the steering wheel happens to be rotated ? Suppose I hit/release the button that engages the wheels back to the steering wheel - should they just snap into the rotate position, treat the current position as zero, or ignore the steering wheel until it's back in the default position ?

      Either option can result in a fatal accident, some easier than others.

      As long as the car has no auto-pilot, you can't lose control of the car even for a moment.
      If there is an auto-pilot - sure, get to the car, say "work", and play with the touch interface as long as you wish.

    30. Re:Never a good idea.. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Keep the touch screens, ditch the driving

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    31. Re:Never a good idea.. by c · · Score: 1

      > turn steering wheel to the left => reduce stereo volume
      > turn steering wheel to the right => increase stereo volume

      You don't think accelerator and brake would be more intuitive? While holding down the function key, obviously, which would be implemented as a small pedal to the left of the brake.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    32. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      erm....

    33. Re:Never a good idea.. by contrapunctus · · Score: 1

      hold the phone to your ear when using siri to get audio feedback instead of visual feedback.

    34. Re:Never a good idea.. by crutchy · · Score: 3, Funny

      definitely need a CTRL pedal and an ALT pedal, so that you can bail out of a nasty situation by pushing CTRL, then ALT, and then BRAKE... just hope it isn't followed by a blue scream of death

    35. Re:Never a good idea.. by tepples · · Score: 1

      Still doesn't mean they can't be a passenger in the front seat.

    36. Re:Never a good idea.. by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      my car already has a "magic wand" stick just below the wiper control stick for controlling the car stereo. Anti clockwise it's volume up, clockwise it's volume down, pull inwards it's auto tune to next station, push forwards it's auto-tune the other way and I believe there's a function for pushing in on the end as well. If you've got the CD player running, then the push and pull function selects next or previous track.

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    37. Re:Never a good idea.. by schroedingers_hat · · Score: 1

      No, what you need for maximum safety is a toggle. A button that you or the passenger can press with your foot which will change the function of the brake pedal to something more important.

    38. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to disagree. My parents Mercedes, the GPS is controlled by a knob and is a nightmare to use compared to my touch screen garmin. We're talking the difference between 20 seconds to put an address vs 3 minutes.

      Of course, neither should be done on the road.

    39. Re:Never a good idea.. by ai4px · · Score: 1

      I got into an argument with my wife's car a few weeks ago. I said "Call Natalie" and it said it didn't understand. I said "dial Natalie" and it said that was an invalid command. I said "help" and it said say category. "phone". It said not valid command. I said "help phone" it read off a long list of things I could say... like dial . So I said "dial Natalie". It said command not valid. So I reached for the nav system screen and leafed thru the contacts and found my wife's number and dialed it. Wow.. what a great experience. Honestly, I "argued" with that car for 6 or 7 minutes and was more distracted than if I'd just picked the phone out of my pocket and dialed the number.

    40. Re:Never a good idea.. by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Hence the last sentence of my post....

    41. Re:Never a good idea.. by SlippyToad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With a few changes, that might work:

      Yeah, the major change I propose is NOT USING THE FUCKING STEERING WHEEL FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN STEERING, IDIOT!

      On a straight piece of road it wouldn't be a problem to disconnect the steering for a few seconds.

      I must assume you have NEVER driven a car before. You have heard of deer, right? Even a turkey crossing the "straight piece of road" in front of you can cause an accident.

      Jesus, I hope you don't work for the auto industry.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    42. Re:Never a good idea.. by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      Some ford and gm cars had or have an option to boost volume depending on speed.

    43. Re:Never a good idea.. by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      What a great idea, because unexpected events requiring steering never happen on straight pieces of road.

    44. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee had the best steering wheel-based stereo and cruise control buttons of any vehicle I've driven. Too bad the buttons aren't programmable on vehicles (at least the ones in my price range :)

    45. Re:Never a good idea.. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      A lot of cars have those... usually under the Bose line, and it's annoying as hell. It's the first thing I turn off in a rental/personal vehicle. I'll control the volume myself, thank you very much.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    46. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anti clockwise? WTF is wrong with you? Go fucking kill yourself.

    47. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find UX to be a much more inclusive term than UI. It focuses the developer on what the user is going through, rather than just what's being displayed on the screen.

    48. Re:Never a good idea.. by PoopMonkey · · Score: 1

      I have the opposite results... Convertible with top down at speed, "Call xxx home" and system says "call xxx home?" and then dials... The only problem is if there are two names that are close, like if I had Jamie and Janie in the phone book, it's questionable how that'd go. But I suppose a last name would likely clear that up.

    49. Re:Never a good idea.. by PoopMonkey · · Score: 1

      Which would defeat the point of hands free...

    50. Re:Never a good idea.. by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Who is Natalie? I thought your wife was Sue. Does Sue know about Natalie?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    51. Re:Never a good idea.. by Gilmoure · · Score: 4, Funny

      The "WHOOOOSH" generated by this post is louder than an old PowerMac G5 with a bad thermo-sensor.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    52. Re:Never a good idea.. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I often wonder how some engineers ever graduate college. Some people never learn! The first car radios in the digital age replaced the knobs with buttons. Knobs came back because dammit, when you're driving you need tactile feedback, not visual feedback, from controls. So now the idiots are getting rid of knobs again!

      And what moron decided to put wiper controls and especially headlight controls on the turn signal??? I've driven cars with the headlight controls there, my car isn't as bad, it just has the wiper control there, but often when I hit the turn signal the wipers will come on. Put it where I can change something with both hands on the wheel and both eyes on the road, like the radio and cruise on my car. I wish the climate controls were on the steering as well.

      Are they recruiting automotive engineers from the searning disabled? Or are the idiots at the top who run things ramming these bad ideas down engineers' and designers' throats?

    53. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      What if I need to rotate the car's wheels in a hurry, while the steering wheel happens to be rotated ? Suppose I hit/release the button that engages the wheels back to the steering wheel - should they just snap into the rotate position, treat the current position as zero, or ignore the steering wheel until it's back in the default position ?

      If the wheel is disconnected you just reconnect it in whatever position it's in. There's no fixed relationship between the steering wheel and the steering. You can (eg.) disconnect, turn it 90 degrees, then reconnect again and the car's front wheels don't turn.

      --
      No sig today...
    54. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Funny

      Temporarily deactivate the steering wheel? You're kidding right?

      Yes, I was....please press disconnect and turn the wheel to the right to raise your humor setting a bit.

      --
      No sig today...
    55. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      The "WHOOOOSH" generated by this post is louder than an old PowerMac G5 with a bad thermo-sensor.

      I used to own a twin-tower Silicon Graphics VGX. I'll put the whoosh of one of those up against ANY Mac, broken sensor or otherwise.

      --
      No sig today...
    56. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Whoosh! What sort of humorless sloths are moderating this 'insightful'?

      --
      No sig today...
    57. Re:Never a good idea.. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Temporarily deactivate the steering wheel? You're kidding right?

      Yes, I was....please press disconnect and turn the wheel to the right to raise your humor setting a bit.

      That generally calls for modifying the BIOS settings and a reboot.

      Or two.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    58. Re:Never a good idea.. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Don't even try.

      If they really believe you were serious then they have many more issues than you can address in an Internet post.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    59. Re:Never a good idea.. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      ...as opposed to spending ten minutes trying to get voice control to work for every simple function that used to take two seconds to complete.

      Driving angry is bad. Bad for safety. Bad for fuel consumption.

      --
      No sig today...
    60. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one hope you don't work in a field which requires the regular use of critical thinking.

    61. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which still doesn't mean that I want a blind person jabbing at random buttons on my dashboard as is. If they learn to be intimately familiar with my dashboard somehow, then they can learn to be intimately familiar with a touchscreen by going off of how far things are from the edge/corner of the screen itself.

      Or just... y'know... ask the driver.

    62. Re:Never a good idea.. by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

      Or even worse (from what I've seen), is what Lexus implemented in their cross-overs / SUV's. A type of computer mouse and monitor setup - no lie. Google Images will bring up some pics but it's horrendous.

      Hopefully as has been announced with auto mfgs joining forces with Apple (and others?) to bring more sensible interaction with the console as well as smarter with connections with your smartphone.

    63. Re:Never a good idea.. by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      I, for one, have no problem with blind people in the driver's position of a self-driving car. [/courageous stand]

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    64. Re:Never a good idea.. by chis101 · · Score: 1

      Who wants to yell at household devices? I'll pay a thousand bucks right now if I can get a module that does voice command -> doing things implanted in my kids.

      You don't need to spend a thousand dollars on that! There are easier ways.

    65. Re:Never a good idea.. by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      Using touch screen controls on a car is akin to texting on your mobile; taking eyes off the road to see your dashboard or stereo controls is an inherently bad idea.

      I guess the only problem with the distraction thesis is that accident rates every year since 1990 have remained pretty much the same. So apparently cell phones, touch screens and so forth have no effect on how much attentive time people spend while driving, or they just replaced some other distraction, or having distracted drivers doesn't lead to more accidents.

      It also means the war on drunk driving had no effect whatsoever.

      I remember shitty drivers in the 70's when we had none of this stuff. We usually impugned their sex, race or presumed religion, or yelled at them to stop putting on makeup while smoking and reading a magazine. At least blaming the gadgets is more socially acceptable.

      But eh...carry on...

    66. Re:Never a good idea.. by cluedweasel · · Score: 1

      As I say to people, intermittent wipe means I'm turning left and fast wipe means I'm turning right.

    67. Re:Never a good idea.. by yurtinus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Though it takes a lot longer to say "change station to 97.1" than it does to hit the "3" preset on the console. I think all this gadgetry really are solutions looking for problems. All this discussion of touch screens and voice commands - how long before it comes full circle and some plucky engineer in the back of the room says "Hey! Let's just put a knob in for the volume and a couple of buttons for presets!"

      --
      +1 Disagree
    68. Re:Never a good idea.. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Maybe Natalie is Sue's girlfriend....

    69. Re:Never a good idea.. by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

      Who is Natalie? I thought your wife was Sue. Does Sue know about Natalie?

      No, but the car does. And next time Sue gets in, it will automatically dial Natalie. Cars have really mean senses of humor.

    70. Re:Never a good idea.. by tsa · · Score: 2

      My car also has that feature and I like it a lot. You don't notice it, which means it's implemented well.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    71. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's personal preference. I've always found the speed adaptive volume controls to work great, typically when on the "Mid" setting. My preference is to not have to manually adjust the volume control as I speed up and sow down.

    72. Re:Never a good idea.. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      the major change I propose is NOT USING THE FUCKING STEERING WHEEL FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN STEERING, IDIOT!

      Your complete inability to recognize humor is surprising, even by slashdot standards.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    73. Re:Never a good idea.. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Turn right - cash into vehicle

      Every time I turn right, the manufacturer has to dump cash into the vehicle? I sense a flaw in that plan.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    74. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG, that would be awesome. See the horror on people's faces when you pass by and quickly turn the wheel to the right so it looks like you are crashing into them, while the music goes THUMBATHUMBATHUMBA.

    75. Re:Never a good idea.. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      So how do I get audio feedback that is more than "here is a list of gas stations near you" Oh that was useful!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    76. Re:Never a good idea.. by contrapunctus · · Score: 1

      pretend you're blind and use the accessibility option of vioceover?

    77. Re:Never a good idea.. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Ahh the audiovox media bridge... It requires a very specific car stereo from the factory. which means I get to buy a new car to get buy this to get what I am after.

      Until audiovox figures out how to make that actually work, that is still a failure. and from the demos, it's still a fail. "Siri post to facebook my location" "sorry, I cant do that"

      "siri where is the nearest hotel" will not result in a list of hotels for me to choose from that are read to me with the voice.

      I played with mediabridge at CES 2 years ago. It's a little bit better, but still epic fail.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    78. Re:Never a good idea.. by KSFreezer · · Score: 1

      I have a 2012 Ford Explorer with steering wheel mounting controls that I can use to do a great number of things. Additionally, the voice command system recognizes over ten thousand commands, including find me the nearest gas station. The touch screen has a huge number of functions separated into four quadrants on the home screen. I never need to look at it and only use it when sitting still.

    79. Re:Never a good idea.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you actually tried that? most results returned from siri are Wolfram Alpha IMAGES of text.

      Or wait, you dont actually own an iphone with siri on it..... That explains a lot.

  2. Well by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    I've got something already similar in my GMC Terrain, plenty of things are done by touch screen and with nearly 8mo behind the wheel on it. I don't have a problem. In fact, I can do everything right off the steering wheel without anything besides a casual glance at the centre console. If anything, if more of it was done by touch screen I'd be happier, there's enough damn buttons there to make me think I'm getting in a plane and I'm preparing for takeoff, there is information overload with the design. My only real complaint? When the console dies, it takes the entire system with it. Mine died, oh about a 2 months after I had the car. And it spent 15 days in the shop waiting for a replacement to come in.

    After a bit of ingenous thinking, I figured out that it might be a good idea to lean on the dealership and have them talk to CAMI in Ingersoll, and get the part directly from there. Because well...GM had this brilliant idea to fuck Canadian owners over and ship all the replacement parts as a priority to US customers, leaving us Canucks high and dry. Which means that I was only left without my car for 19 days instead. On the upside, I did get XM free for two years for that screw up, along with a $400 maintenance voucher.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:Well by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      The lack of a physical keyboard reduces the utility of tablets and phones to commuter toys for me. Trying to replace perfectly functioning physical main vehicle operation controls with touchscreens reduces that vehicle to a deathtrap.

    2. Re:Well by sp0tter · · Score: 1

      My only real complaint? When the console dies, it takes the entire system with it. Mine died, oh about a 2 months after I had the car. And it spent 15 days in the shop waiting for a replacement to come in.

      Friend of mine's Ford died this same way too. Lucky the car was still under warrantee but he was without it for a weekend. It kind of makes me think about the used car market since that is all I buy. Someday I won't be able to buy a 10-year-old car on the cheap because while it may be mechanically sound, none of the controls will work.

      --
      you don't eat crackers in the bed of your future--or else you'll get all scratchy
  3. M-B system by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Our Mercedes cars have a system which uses a knob which you twist/push in the center armrest. It's far superior to a touch interface for the GPS navigator, and mp3/radio control (even video once the car is stopped).

    Stuff touch interfaces for this kind of thing.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:M-B system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That system is as bad as the BMW's with their stick down by the center console. Nested tree in a car environment is just horrible.

      The best solution I've seen were devices that offer both touch and hard buttons (most after market units employ this idea.. such as the Pioneer AVIC series). These units have the normal touch screen while also have a knob for volume and one for seek/presets or variations of this design.

      Also, some units, such as Alpine units, provide a feedback when you touch a button on the touch screen that provides a tactile feedback that *feels* like you actually just clicked a button. It's really interesting in how it works, but it gives you that same sort of "confirmation" a normal radio would provide.

      Heck, some even employ voice commands such as the Pioneer AVIC Z series of units (it's been a bit since I've been at a shop that carried Pioneer so I'm not as familiar with their brand spanking new models and lines). Kenwood also has units that provide these capabilities (I'm not sure if the Sony and JVC units with that newer CarLink or whatever it's called that uses bluetooth and wifi to link the radio to your phone and had the capability to actually display a compatible phone's display on the radio also do voice commands)

      Anyhow, just something I've been personally involved in working in the mobile electronics for the past 16 years (anymore just weekends doing remote starts doing IT during the week)

    2. Re:M-B system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The BMW system is really bad. I've used last month on BMW 640. Also I used touch screen from Ford Mondeo and it is much easer and better.

    3. Re:M-B system by aurispector · · Score: 1

      "UI" problems have been implicated in the crash of at least one Airbus airliners. The yoke had no feedback mechanism so the actions of the pilot are felt at the copilot's yoke. Hence the pilot and copilot could be taking opposite actions and not know it.

      Boeing took the opposite approach - everything you do at one yoke is replicated on the other.

      Personally, I like cars with manual controls. By touch you can tell how the heat is set, etc., without taking your eyes off the road. And if you do look, the settings are immediately obvious from the position of the controls.

      Menu systems are idiotic in cars.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    4. Re:M-B system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:M-B system by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

      Our Mercedes cars have a system which uses a knob which you twist/push in the center armrest.

      The knob in the center console was copied from the BMW i-drive system, which has been the subject of derision from the automotive press for years. Basically, it's a mouse instead of a touch screen - so you still need to have your eyes on the screen, watching the cursor instead of the road. Whenever a bad UI is discussed in any car, they usually end up by saying "at least it's better than i-drive".

    6. Re:M-B system by LurkingSince1999 · · Score: 0

      BMW have actually been adding some tactile buttons back to their cars in response to (mostly valid) i-drive criticsms -- that of having to take your eyes off the road to accomplish routine tasks. Now what I do like about i-drive is the ability to alter many of the cars settings without having to take it to the stealership at US$125/hr. Full disclosure: my BMW (E46 M3) does not have i-drive. I've only played with it in other people's cars.

  4. No kidding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lack of tactile feedback is a bad idea when you are driving, because it forces you to look at the controls instead of the road. It's a fad, just like the days when they started replacing rotating knobs for stereo volume with a more awkward control that was linear, or even worse, a series of digital buttons. An analog knob is much easier to control. The companies pushing for an "all touchscreen" interface are pursuing a bad, unsafe design. The programmability of a touchscreen is great, and you can fit layer after layer of complicated control in the same space, but it's at the cost of ease of use. Touchscreens should augment regular in-car controls, not replace them.

  5. Touch is a fad by hairyfish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ok not a fad, but its required application is far lower than the current hype curve that everyone seems to be jumping on these days. Touch works in a phone where you have a casual short-use, multi-function device. But it doesn't work on a desktop where you need to input data 8 hours a day, it sucks on a volume knob where you want analog-like gradient control, and it has no place in a car where you should be looking at the road. The worst example I can think of is those stupid shopping mall store directories that are now interactive touch screens. What is wrong with a paper map? It works, anyone can use it, and most importantly many people can use it simultaneously. Technology for technology's sake, it is the bane of my existence.

    1. Re:Touch is a fad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That touch interface for a mall is really going to be popular when it is flu season.

    2. Re:Touch is a fad by MacBurn11 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish it was...I already hated touchscreens when they came to mobile phones and mp3 players, so i couldn't use them anymore without pulling them out of my pocket. On my touchpad it is fine, even in that map scenario a touchscreen could be useful (selecting a target and showing the fastest way from the current location to it), but in a car a touchscreen is a possible security risk, what with not paying attention to the road and so on.

    3. Re:Touch is a fad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst example I can think of is those stupid shopping mall store directories that are now interactive touch screens. What is wrong with a paper map? It works, anyone can use it, and most importantly many people can use it simultaneously. Technology for technology's sake, it is the bane of my existence.

      re

      I remember these in the late 70's and early 80's. You would push a button and lights would mark the path to the store. o Eventually, they would break and be repaired once or twice and then disapear.

      If you can't read a map, probably better to stay home.

    4. Re:Touch is a fad by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      That touch interface for a mall is really going to be popular when it is flu season.

      You actually have that backwards.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Touch is a fad by danzero · · Score: 1

      Hallelujah! I couldn't agree with you more. I recently rented a Ford Edge with the new touchscreen. Although the car itself was very well built and nicely designed, the touchscreen ruined it. There are almost no useable tactile buttons for basic things. You have to drill down deep in menus to simply adjust the temperature. Typical scenario I encountered: The kids in the back wanted more volume; Typically on a well designed car stereo you can reach over with your right hand, without taking your eyes off the road, and tweak the 'fade' knob by feel alone. Here, my wife and I had to exit out of the climate screen, drill down in a fidgety menu (which annoyingly beeps every touch) to find the fade function (e.g. "honey, go back, then back again... no you went too far, go back into Entertainment, then find Settings, hit enter..."). On top of that, the fade function is designed as a "fancy" graphical birds eye view of the car interior, and is implemented in such a way that you have to incrementally press a tiny plus button.. +,+,+,+,+,+,+ like 50 times to fade to the rear, and do the same dangerous eyes-completely-off-the-road song-and-dance if you want to fade to front. I can't believe such a ridiculous system was actually OK'd by Ford engineers. Like I said, the car itself was mechanically really well built, but the touchscreen UI completely ruined it and I wouldn't buy one for this reason alone. It's disappointing that these "high-tech looking" touchscreens actually appear to sell more cars and completely trump security and real thoughtful design.

  6. Prius by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Informative

    All the important stuff is duplicated on the steering wheel. If I'm busy and the passenger wants to fiddle with the air conditioning, I can direct them to the touchscreen and I don't have to do anything. This to me is the ideal situation. The passenger can play with things that don't endanger anything, I can concentrate on avoiding the BMW driver who thinks that the little propeller sign on the front of his car means that he can pull out in front of people without looking.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Prius by hAckz0r · · Score: 1
      not only are they duplicated on the steering wheel, but they are well designed and many will deactivate (greyed out) while the car is in motion to prevent accidents.

      Un fortunately this forces the driver to pull off the road just to select a predefined destination in the navigation system. Which would cause more accidents? pushing two buttons or pulling off and back on a busy highway?

      fwiw I never tried the voice control to see if navigation is deactivated by voice when the buttons are greyed out.

    2. Re:Prius by MacBurn11 · · Score: 1

      Well in many countries it's not allowed to use your mobile phone while driving, and reprogramming your navigation system falls into the same category. And pulling off and on a highway doesn't really sound worse than not paying full attention to the road for a minute or so while driving 120km/h.

    3. Re:Prius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it safe to find a radio station but not a gas station? Why is it OK for my passenger to use a paper map but not a digital map?

      I recently avoided getting a Toyota with a navigation system because it can only effectively be used when the car is stopped. Stopping in moving traffic is often dangerous or impossible. There are construction zones where there is literally no place to pull over for miles at a time. There are highways like the FDR in Manhattan where there's nowhere to pull over, and if you get off there may be nowhere nearby to get back on. There are country roads which are only one lane in each direction, cars move at 60 mph, and if you pull off to the side you'll end up in a ditch. There are roads in cities where there is simply no place to park and it's not safe or legal to stop (think rush hour in New York). There are freeways where you're allowed to stop for emergencies only. Heck, crossing lanes of traffic on a freeway to pull over and then merging back in is dangerous enough that you don't want to do it every time you want to touch your navigation system.

      Those are all situations where it's perfectly safe to have my passenger mess around with the system all they want, yet Toyota thinks that I should endanger my life and those of my passengers by stopping my car before they'll give me the honor of using their navigation system.

      No thanks, I think I'll just use a Honda instead.

      dom

    4. Re:Prius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't realise BMW people were like that in other parts of the world too!

  7. Re:God says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well I guess that you could say...

    *SUNGLASSES* ...that they failed to post Baal.

    YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

  8. Knobs and switches by Bazman · · Score: 2

    My 1983 Series 3 Land Rover has big chunky knobs and large switches for everything. Engineers have been happy with those things for the user interface for a hundred years, why change now?

    Reliability? Not judging by the 'my car UI failed after 3 months and spent two weeks getting a replacement' post.

    Probably marketing (look at the gee-whiz dashboard! See its shiny goodness!) and maybe even insurance (so they can tell if you did indicate or were fiddling with the radio before crashing) and also built-in obsolescence (oh, you need an upgrade, $$$ plz kthx, no, nobody else can fix it) unlike on a car with knobs and switches where anyone can replace a switch.

    I hope these touch screens work with gloves on...

    My Land Rover does have two switches on the centre of the dashboard that I have no idea what they do...

    1. Re:Knobs and switches by aclarke · · Score: 1

      Good for you if your '83 SIII dash switches work reliably. My '86 110 switches are always breaking or failing for some reason. Perhaps it's the 1984 metal -> plastic conversion. I actually put a Windows XP touch screen on the centre console at one point, with the computer in the cubby box, but ripped all that out when the iPad came out and was superior to my setup in almost every conceivable manner.

    2. Re:Knobs and switches by nazsco · · Score: 1

      Land rovers are rich people toy. They are made to fall apartat 100kmiles or a couple years.

      It's a feature. If it really were adventure cars it wouldn't came only in auto.

      And comparing buttons such as a rover dash to an ipod... What are you? 16?
      Do you even know you have more than a radio there?

    3. Re:Knobs and switches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope these touch screens work with gloves on...

      They don't, you need to buy special gloves...

    4. Re:Knobs and switches by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      That's only new ones.

      Old ones were a mechanic's ticket to heaven. Their only advantage is that most repairs could be effected by a few coathangers and a big pair of pliers.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Knobs and switches by garyoa1 · · Score: 1

      Give me knobs and switches any day. If one dies all I have to do is drive to the nearest service center. If a panel goes... I walk. Everywhere.
      But I do save gas!!!!

      --
      Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
    6. Re:Knobs and switches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You complete idiot. Land Rovers aren't "rich people toy" even today, and they certainly weren't in 1986. Land Rovers have never come only in auto, they come ony in manual with a two speed transfer case and lockable centre differential. And I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with your final paragraph, but I can tell you that Land Rovers certainly don't have more than a radio in there.

      You're probably thinking of the Range Rover. But even then most of your commentary is wildly inaccurate in 1986.

    7. Re:Knobs and switches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably way cheaper with respect to interior design to just put a touch screen in it.

    8. Re:Knobs and switches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking of Range Rovers - the Land Rover company's luxury segment. Land Rovers as models are typically intended for long-term, extreme, and off-road use (e.g. the Land Rover Defender).

    9. Re:Knobs and switches by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I have a 1978 F100 and a 1991 F350, both are all cloddy great knobs and switches, all of which do only one thing (the same things they did in every car before them, so no learning curve) and all can be operated without special effort, thought, or loss of attention to the road, even when wearing mittens. This is as the gods intended.

      The exception is the aftermarket radio some yahoo stuck in the F350. It has about 20 tiny buttons, all multifunction, and none that can be operated without looking at 'em, except for the volume control (and only if you have bare fingers; gloved hands or even fat-fingers could not manipulate these tiny buttons).

      So now they want to make the whole freakin' interface be the touch equivalent of tiny too-similar buttons??

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    10. Re:Knobs and switches by Bazman · · Score: 1

      One of my diesel engine glow plugs failed on holiday so I fixed it by shorting that plug (they're wired in series) with a metal coathanger onto the terminals with a big pair of pliers! How did you know!?

      Actually, no, the car started from cold with a lot of starter motor cranking until I fixed it later by bypassing that plug with a simple connector.

      I'm pretty sure the army, navy, royal marines, SAS, police, mountain rescue and almost every farmer in Britain wouldn't have "rich main's toys"!

  9. too much iWhatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    blablabla iPhone blablabla ios blablabla iPod blablabla

    seriously, not everything has to be like your iPhone. kudos to you for realizing that but it should be quite obvious.

  10. Touch controls... by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    ... were always over-rated. I hate having to repeat the same actions on touch interface devices because it doesn't register your motion. Buttons are nice, simple and consistent. I mourn the unpopularity of button based devices, I never understood why anyone would take a touch based MP3 player over one with well designed and placed buttons. I always hate accidentally causing music to skip or change songs on touch based devices.

    1. Re:Touch controls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Buttons are nice, simple and consistent. I mourn the unpopularity of button based devices, I never understood why anyone would take a touch based MP3 player over one with well designed and placed buttons. I always hate accidentally causing music to skip or change songs on touch based devices.

      Completely agreed, both with you and the bit in the summary about the clickwheel iPods. I'm still using a clickwheel one that I've had since something like 2007 because 1) it still works and 2) I dislike the touchscreen ones now. With the one I have, I can change volume, pause, and change songs without looking at the device - in fact, I can do most of that without even reaching into my pocket, since the buttons work even with a layer of fabric between my fingers and the device.

      Of course, I can do the same things with an iPod touch if I pay a premium for special headphones that add physical controls, I just don't want to, because I already have nice headphones. Seems Apple knows physical controls are superior, too, and are willing to charge you extra for them.

    2. Re:Touch controls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mourn the unpopularity of button based devices, I never understood why anyone would take a touch based MP3 player over one with well designed and placed buttons.

      Well, because my touch-based mp3 player can also read email, surf the web, maintain todo lists and calendars, play games, etc.. Music was pretty far down on the list when I got an iPod Touch.

  11. Who thought this was a good idea? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any car interior design that requires you to look at a display to change a setting, or even worse, require you to navigate through various menus through a joystick or a touchscreen to change settings, should have been scrapped at the prototype stage.

    On one hand, we have stereo controls mounted to the steering wheel, a brilliant invention that allows you to adjust the volume, change which station or track you're listening to or even pick up the phone, all without ever taking your eyes off the road. My car is slightly older so it uses a third stalk for these functions, but the basic principle is the same. You can adjust the stereo without ever taking your eyes off the road. +1 for road awareness!

    Because the designers of my car didn't have their heads stuck up their asses, the climate control unit has big buttons that are easily distinguished by touch. Any combination of heating, cooling, vents, defrosting, AC etc., I can do without ever looking at the controls. That's good UI design, with proper tactile feedback that you just don't get with touch controls.

    But now it seems we're moving in the opposite direction. Everything needs to have a touch display and fancy animations to further distract people from the act of driving. It sells due to the "ooh shiny" factor, but should be considered a danger to road safety on par with eating while driving.

    --
    Eat the rich.
    1. Re:Who thought this was a good idea? by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing it may save costs also; although touchscreens are initially more expensive, it puts all the UI into software.

    2. Re:Who thought this was a good idea? by justcauseisjustthat · · Score: 1

      I'll bet ya $10,000, 80% of the people still look at the dials/knobs etc in the console before reaching for them to change a setting.

    3. Re:Who thought this was a good idea? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Even so, I've never had to turn a series of dials just so I can reach the dial that lets me change the cabin temperature.

    4. Re:Who thought this was a good idea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'll bet ya $10,000, 80% of the people still look at the dials/knobs etc in the console before reaching for them to change a setting.

      Sure but in that case a short glance is sufficient and usually the changing itself is done with the eyes on the road.
      On a touch panel with no tactile feedback and a menu driven structure you'll have your eyes glued to it the whole time (or go back and forth a lot) and it probably takes longer than with a dedicated dial as well.

    5. Re:Who thought this was a good idea? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the knob or button is right there and can be found at least partly by touch.

      No such luck with a touchscreen where you have to focus on the screen to find the control you want, possibly even in a submenu somewhere hidden.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  12. Cameras by backwardMechanic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Think of a modern digital SLR versus an old pure-mechanical film version. The modern design is a pretty impressive balance between keeping the old layout for things you want to find quickly without looking (knobs, buttons, dials), and adding a load of new features that you don't need very often (menu based). Car UI designers would do well to learn from this approach.

    1. Re:Cameras by neyla · · Score: 1

      True, allthough you need easy access to some of the "new" settings too. For example digital cameras can adjust ISO-value, you can't do that with a film-based camera without swapping film.

      And still, changing it rapidly is handy, hell I've even wished for iso auto-bracketing on occasion (like there already is for exposure on decent cameras except prosumer Nikons)

      I'd prefer more wheels instead of yet another shift-button for the existing wheel, but I guess the shift-button is easier and/or cheaper to implement

      Still gets tedious: wheel for aperture. Shift+wheel for shutter-speed. another_shift+wheel for iso. third_shift+wheel for flash-mode.

    2. Re:Cameras by the+plant+doctor · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear!

      Wish I had mod points right now, you're absolutely correct on this.

    3. Re:Cameras by AnonyMouseCowWard · · Score: 1

      That all depends on the camera you have. On my camera, I only have one wheel, and so yes next to shift+wheel for shutter speed, but you do know bigger cameras have more buttons and two wheels, one for aperture and one for shutter speed? :) Try 'em out, you might realize some models have all the buttons you want, not to mention that if you know your ISO button, pressing it + wheel doesn't require you to think or look.

      But you have it right, camera manufacturers _get_ UI (mostly). Car manufacturers, on the other hand... It seems the more expensive your car, the more electronics gimmicks they put, at the detriment of good interface. Good lord people, I do not, ever, want a single button/knob that changes everything from the radio to the A/C to the mode of the car. That would just remind me of the Onion spoof on the Mac with a single clickwheel as keyboard.

    4. Re:Cameras by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      You can usually change ISO on film based cameras. You can get interesting effects by mixing ISO with unmatched film stock, but you can still change it if you want and shoot 100 ISO on 400 speed film.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    5. Re:Cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you can't. You can tell the camera its film has a different ISO, but the film won't change.

    6. Re:Cameras by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Problem here is user training. It takes a while to get really used to the interface on a modern DSLR. Usually takes me a month or two of fairly heavy use to get used to a new camera - and I stick to one brand who's UI has been basically similar since 1995. However, that is what is expected of the user. It's a high end machine, you are expected to put a bit of work into it to get good results out of it.

      Cars, not so much. The analogy would be to point-and-shoot cameras where you only expect the user to turn the thing on and point it in the general direction of the item to be photographed. P&S cameras are doing more and more for the 'photographer' all of the time. Detecting faces, turning the flash on and off, setting the aperture, shutter speed, ISO and half a dozen other parameters.

      So car manufacturers really have to design their interfaces for the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately, they fail at that big time.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  13. they're bad even on phones by kenorland · · Score: 1

    For most people, a Nokia/Blackberry-style keyboard is still more effective for text input than any touch screen keyboard, and even more so compared to Apple's awful iOS screen keyboards. (Touch is good for browsing and menu selection, but once you have decided on a capacitive touch screen, building a good UI for those purposes is easy.)

    Touch has caught on as much as it has because people make a tradeoff between screen size, weight, style, and ease of input, and ease of input ends up at the bottom up on that list. That tradeoff may make sense for phones, it makes no sense in cars (or on the desktop), where you have the space.

    1. Re:they're bad even on phones by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Swype is a very good way around the crappiness of touch keyboards but that's not available in the walled garden.

    2. Re:they're bad even on phones by N3Bruce · · Score: 1

      For pure ease of use back in the days when it was legal to use a cell phone while driving, the best phone I ever had in that regard was the old style Nokia 82 series. You could dial blindly with one hand and be accurate most of the time. Things went downhill, first the tactile feedback went to hell with subsequent LG and Motorola phones, then got worse with the tiny buttons on the alphanumeric keyboard on a Blackberry style Samsung phone, which was just about unusable behind the wheel. Don't even get me started about my current phone, a basic touchscreen model with Android. Trying to use the voice command is a joke, I am not the only one who feels this way, when I ride with others when they attempt to voice dial, and as often as not become exasperated after multiple failed attempts or wrong numbers.

    3. Re:they're bad even on phones by umghhh · · Score: 1
      That is already more logic than a normal indi-h-vidual can take without overheating his/her brains or going directly into hit the interlocutor in the face mode.

      It is also in direct contradiction with "if I have a hammer then everything is nail" approach

    4. Re:they're bad even on phones by borgar · · Score: 1

      Phone designers have seem to have this insane need for removing all "real" buttons. I have a HTC HD mini which is mostly ok (leaving a side that it's a Windows mobile). But since they insist on putting in cameras on these things I really would like a physical button on the side of the phone to take picures. Having to push a field in the middle of the touch screen is not even remotely a good idea. I've always had this impression that it's preferable to keep the camera reasonably still when taking picures.

    5. Re:they're bad even on phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phone designers have seem to have this insane need for removing all "real" buttons

      1. Cost savings. Costs savings. Cost savings.
      2. Multiply by 10 million devices.
      3. Profit!

    6. Re:they're bad even on phones by kenorland · · Score: 1

      Yup, I agree: Swype (or rather its improved clones) is probably the best way for text entry on touch screen phones right now. I still think a thumb keyboard is faster, though. Entering individual words in Swype is faster than thumb-keying them, but the corrections kill you.

  14. The challenge is feedback by LordFolken · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Switches offer tactile feedback, both that it was pressed and what position it is in. You can find it blindly after some practice.

    Touch-screens try to augment this (badly) with vibration, visual or audible cues. This is fine on a phone. In the car the audible works good. But you never know whether you have pressed the right thing.

    Also touch screens are fine as long as you are on a smooth road.. but as soon as it gets rough you will have difficulty to operate them.

    In Airplanes its even worse. I fly gliders as a hobby.. in the mountains the acceleration forces are so great that you can't even reach the dash properly. Even less hit a certain spot on a flat surface touchscreen. It requires a lot more attention and concentration than "just hitting a switch".

    1. Re:The challenge is feedback by Reziac · · Score: 1

      What happens with a touchscreen when you're wearing heavy gloves or worse yet mittens? Oh, I see, everyone who buys these vehicles will already own a heated garage (probably because otherwise the electronics will croak in subzero weather) and will never need to get out of the car before arriving at their equally heated destination. Problem solved!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  15. Surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not really ... for a touchscreen like we currently have it, you have to look where your finger is ... if you have buttons you can feel them with your fingers.

  16. Re:God says... by crutchy · · Score: 1

    hahahaha.... "smote" (reminds me of shrek the third)

  17. Re:God says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, Baal is dead, Qetesh killed him.

  18. Blind leading the blind by justcauseisjustthat · · Score: 0

    All the blind people buying iPhones must just be idiots because they can't use them at all. [dumb]
    Accessibility is a question of design/feedback, not different shaped surfaces.

  19. Haptics biotches! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A flat smooth panel does not have!

    The reason why I like 3 knobs adjacent in a row for climate control, and 2 knobs and 10 primary buttons differentiated by shape and positioned sensibly on my radio. Like a good qwerty keyboard, you know what's what by feel and position without ever having to look.

    Some things are best left old-school.

  20. Clickwheel when blind by Lt.Hawkins · · Score: 1

    Absolutely, the clickwheel was superior to touchscreens in some situations. One thing that pissed me off about the iPhone (when I had one) that kept me going back to my 1st Gen iPod Nano was that the touchscreen was, for me, useless on a plane. If I was dozing on a plane, I couldn't skip forward or go back with my eyes shut. I had open my eyes and turn on a bright screen, which was annoying both for me, and for others during a long-haul, overnight trip. Adjusting volume was easier too, though that is possible using the hardware volume buttons.

    For a dedicated music player, the click/touchwheel was hard to beat.

    I've had an idea for touchscreen "blind music control", but I think it'd have to be implemented on the OS level, if the hardware even supports it. Specifically, keep the LCD off, but the touch sensor on to recognize gestures. Gestures that are not rotations of each other, e.g. _| and |_ should help the device differentiate between commands, regardless of orientation.

    --
    -- My Sig is a P228.
  21. I Loathe Touchscreen Interfaces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And I have loathed them for more than three decades. The first one that I dealt with was an Intel based minicomputer system in around 1980, it actually ran a pretty decent RTOS. Read and Control a few hundred devices. Now. The "Engineers" decided we needed Touchscreens, with multiple layers of screens. Oh, and no mouse.
        It was a disaster. We demanded, and with great resistance, we got the knobs, and buttons, and the multiple meters that we needed. The "Engineers" were pissed, so every couple of years, they tried to sneak the Touchscreens back in. Even two years ago, on new systems running VxWorks, they were pushing Touchscreens. They are still a disaster, especially with those who are color-blind. You still had to go through multiple screens, peering at the filthy touchscreen, while $10,000 worth of welded vacuum bellows were twisting into a pretzle behind your back.
        For passive, brainless stuff, like watching videos, listening to music, or reading Slashdot, Touchscreens are probably ok. But anything more active...
        Look at a Formula 1 steering wheel. It's full of knobs and switches. No Touchscreen. (Unfortunately not much room for an Airbag either.) It sort of goes back to the evolution from Batch, to Multitasking, to Real Time systems. Touchscreens are still Batch. Oh, and by the way Siri, I don't need to know the route to the nearest Pizza Hut. It's one block down, catty-corner. I can see the sign.

    1. Re:I Loathe Touchscreen Interfaces by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      We need touchscreens with a memory plastic surface layer that pops 100dpi bumps up and down around GUI widget borders. Then you can feel what's under your fingertips, and your hand will navigate and remember what to do without the eyes or visual concentration needed in the loop.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    2. Re:I Loathe Touchscreen Interfaces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely! For so many applications, touch screens are several steps back. I bought a TV 5 years ago on an open box deal. The remote that came with the TV wasn't in the box anymore so they gave me a universal remote which has a touch screen. What a terrible idea... I've never before had to take my eyes of the screen to operate the remote once I got reasonably acquainted with it. Now in order to operate certain menus on the TV I have to flip between various screens on the remote and frequently the TV menu times out before I can find the page I'm looking for on the remote itself.

    3. Re:I Loathe Touchscreen Interfaces by pruss · · Score: 1

      Except that it's harder to remember locations that are app-dependent, unlike hardware buttons that are app-independent.

    4. Re:I Loathe Touchscreen Interfaces by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      The touch edges wouldn't replace the graphics. Different app widgets/locations would be no harder to find than with graphics-only. And in fact easier to "remember" with hand muscle memory than with visual memory directing hand muscles.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  22. JUST THINK OF IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as evolution in action

    1. Re:JUST THINK OF IT by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      When it kills people who just can't get out of the way fast enough, the evolution isn't heroic.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  23. Well duh by DrXym · · Score: 2

    Putting a UI into a vehicle which requires the user to take their eyes off the road to locate and touch a virtual button on a smooth surface is a car crash waiting to happen. IMO the pinnacle of this insanity has to be the Tesla Model S which sticks a 17" tablet in the middle of the dash. It might look great on paper but I wonder how many accidents will be caused by people fiddling with the screen and it's functions when their eyes should be on the road.

    1. Re:Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Several new Lexus models use a MOUSE input.. I kid you not. You have to control the joystick MOUSE interface to move to the area you want to click, click it, then click through sub menus to do something simple - like adjust the aircon. At least they grey out the "settings" interface for "safety" while you are moving! But you can still do everything else...

      BTW captcha was "history"..

  24. Tell me you're joking by Viol8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Certainly a single display can replace all of the current dials,"

    Sure it can, but that doesn't mean its better.

    ""Engine Warning" icon lighting up, it can say "Your O2 sensor is broken""

    They could do that already in the LCD or VFD screens that most cars have. They don't because car manufacturers want you to take it down the dealers and pay for a diagnostic.

    "or voice control, the display can alter to show what you're changing directly"

    Oh wonderful, so you change the radio station and suddenly your speedo vanishes. Genius!

    "Hmm, pretty close to the buttons on an Android phone really."

    We're not talking about phones or toys , we're talking about large powerful vehicles which can kill people if the driver is distracted by playing around with silly technology-for-its-own-sake gimmicks.

    "Still, the latest version of Eclipse is available in a version for car application development"

    Excelllent , so we can look forward to some really reliable efficient java apps running our cars can we? I can't wait. Actually I'll probably have to when I'm stuck at the side of the road with a java exception dump showing on the dashboard.

    "I think the primary input has to be voice, with steering wheel buttons as a backup"

    I think you're talking out of your arse. Why would I want to have to press some push to talk button (unless the computer can figure out when you're talking to it) then fucking DESCRIBE what I want the car to do such as turn down the volume when in 1 second I can reach over and do it myself on a proper volume control without even looking??!

    "In fact, the Microsoft Steering Wheel "

    Now you're just trolling.

    1. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "or voice control, the display can alter to show what you're changing directly"

      Oh wonderful, so you change the radio station and suddenly your speedo vanishes. Genius!

      That is easy enough to fix. Have a button or grip on the steering wheel that mutes the audio and then allows for voice input.

      As far as critical controls, the glass cockpit idea is probably a good guide. It allows multiple indications, but it doesn't hide the critical ones in any mode. There is a lot of space for indications that aren't often used. Most alarms don't come in routinely, but they still take up space. If your oil temperature gauge is in the center of band and not moving, do you really need to see it (you can have it return if it drifts). And door indications don't convey useful information 99% of the time. Keep the speedometer, turn signals, and fuel gauges in the same place in all modes. And let other indications come in as needed (such as navigation, music, and climate control settings or whatever else you desire)

    2. Re:Tell me you're joking by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Have a button or grip on the steering wheel that mutes the audio and then allows for voice input."

      You're missing the point - voice input is inefficient and doesn't work well. Its an order of magnitude quicker to press a button or 2 than describe what action you want done.

    3. Re:Tell me you're joking by hattig · · Score: 1

      I think you've missed pretty much all the points I was trying to make in your quest to nitpick.

      we're talking about large powerful vehicles which can kill people if the driver is distracted by playing around with silly technology-for-its-own-sake gimmicks

      The point about voice control and steering wheel controls is to REDUCE DISTRACTION over the current UIs, and especially reduce the amoutn of time the driver is looking away from the road.

      so you change the radio station and suddenly your speedo vanishes

      I guess there's a patent or something preventing the ability to show multiple things on a display at once. Hint - the speedo can remain, but maybe the less frequently used dials can temporarily be replaced with the tool-specific UI. How often do you look at the rev counter, temperature or fuel gauge? How often do you look at them whilst you are looking at the radio to change station/CD/volume?

      Maybe using the example of volume control wasn't sensible, but I had the naive thought that Slashdot readers could extrapolate or imagine more complex use cases, such as configuring the in-built GPS.

      And WHOOSH for missing a joke too.

    4. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on the use. Volume controls should be on the steering wheel. Finding a specific song should be a voice control. Plotting navigation or setting a specific climate control setting should be voice controlled, but perhaps bumping temperature should be a knob.

      If it is complex and requires you to take your eyes off the road for a couple of seconds it should be done with voice control. The technology may not be mature yet, but this is where it should go when it does mature.

    5. Re:Tell me you're joking by Viol8 · · Score: 2

      "The point about voice control and steering wheel controls is to REDUCE DISTRACTION over the current UIs, and especially reduce the amoutn of time the driver is looking away from the road."

      So dump the silly UIs that manufacturers brought in and go back to buttons. Its quite easy to mentally know where a button is without looking after a very short time. Do you think F1 drivers keep looking at their steering wheels to figure out which button to press when they're doing 200mph?

      "And WHOOSH for missing a joke too."

      Fair cop.

    6. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SAAB Night Panel. Until GM destroyed them.

    7. Re:Tell me you're joking by hattig · · Score: 2

      I believe F1 steering wheels have all the functions on them, in the form of buttons: http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5287.html
      I'm sure they know the position of those buttons off by heart though, but that's their job! I'm also sure that the buttons are placed in the best place for them to use them whilst retaining a grip on the wheel, through the gloves, whilst keeping their eyes on the road. Maybe I'm nitpicking myself now!

      However there is a good argument to be made for dials. Dials are very intuitive, and easy to find with your hand without looking. Buttons less so unless they're already under your hand (e.g., a remote control is usable because you have it in your hand and know where the individual buttons are, helped along by button shape).

      I think that buttons on a steering wheel, in an accessible place to use without moving your hand from the recommended position, are a solution worth considering. And as many steering wheels already have media controls on them it's not far to extrapolate more generalised controls from them controlling a UI that's directly in front of the driver's eyes.

      One of the main points of the discussion is about removing driver functions from the centre console, especially since touchscreens have started appearing there, and as the article and other posters have said - they're a really bad idea. In addition because a lot of the centre console functionality is no longer required, why not get rid of it entirely (or have a stack of cup holders :p) and save money, with all the separate interfaces replaced by one on the display UI on the dash?

      I'm sure the car manufacturers have been working on this stuff for a very long time already though, so one of them is going to get it right eventually.

    8. Re:Tell me you're joking by Hatta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Oh wonderful, so you change the radio station and suddenly your speedo vanishes. Genius!

      Officer, I swear I was just listening to the radio on the way back from the swimming pool. I don't know what happened!

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Tell me you're joking by flightdroid · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have a 2009 Ford Focus. I installed the aftermarket Sync kit from the Ford parts department. Does it come close to the voice input on Star Trek TOS? Absolutely not. Does it save me having to push a crapload of buttons if I want to change inputs? Yes. Does it make talking on the phone safer and easier? Yes. For example: Using voice controls: I am listening to the radio. I decide that I would like to listen to Weezer. I press the voice button and say: "USB" I press the voice button again and say: "Play artist Weezer" Outcome: I never take my eyes off the road, I'm listening to the music that i want and it took all of about 5 seconds to accomplish. Using radio knobs: I am listening to the radio. I decide that I would like to listen to Weezer. I press the Aux button. I press the Menu button. I turn the dial to Artist. I press the enter button. I turn the dial to the alphabetical group that has artists that start with W. (There are three alphabetical groups) I turn the dial a lot more to find Weezer. I press enter. I turn the dial to All Albums. I press enter. But I guess you're right, voice input is way more inefficient.

    10. Re:Tell me you're joking by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      ""Engine Warning" icon lighting up, it can say "Your O2 sensor is broken""

      They could do that already in the LCD or VFD screens that most cars have. They don't because car manufacturers want you to take it down the dealers and pay for a diagnostic.

      They don't because of another reason - most people won't know WTF is going on. "WTF is an O2 sensor? Am I going to die?". Hell, you'll probably find people with windows rolled down in the winter because they think the climate control is broken because of a bad O2 sensor.

      And given that every car has to have an OBD-II port, you don't have ot pay for a diagnostic anymore - a scan tool (they make 'em for smartphones now, and apps that let you adjust parameters on the fly) will read it out.

      The light is there to warn that something is wrong with the engine, and if they don't want to be stranded, they better take it to a mechanic to find out what. (If it's particularly serious, it'll flash). Even then you have people who drive for years with the light on.

      Of course, having a message is useful - perhaps the most common reason for the check engine light is a loose gas cap. Perhaps a message saying "Check gas cap" would help people who don't twist it until it clicks.

      Heck, if there's something to fix - it's the little indicator showing which side has the gas cap. The little triangle by the fuel pump icon on the gauge is a very nice and Apple-y subtle reminder, but it seems most people just don't notice it. Or know/realize what it means (it's one of those things that is plainly obvious and intuitive once you realize what it means, but until then, it's a mystery).

    11. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because catering to the stupid is always the best plan of action. Make everything with the absolute lowest common denominator in mind... SURELY that's never caused problems in society.

      Ok, fine, if you want to cater to the retarded who for some bizarre reason think that "Your O2 sensor is broken" (never mind that if they're this stupid, they'd have no idea what O2 is) means that the car will magically be made airtight and all of the oxygen will be sucked out... because fuck you, that's why I guess... then you can have the option to set it to "too stupid to breathe" mode where it only shows a "Warning, go see mechanic", and the option to set it to actually tell us what the goddamn problem is.

      Don't just... force the entire populace to have no clue what's wrong with their car when it's perfectly capable of telling us, only to avoid the vague, remote possibility of scaring someone because the phrasing of a warning message has a remote, vague possiblity of having a scary word in it. It's alright if you want to live in a nanny state, but don't force the rest of us to.

    12. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't because of another reason - most people won't know WTF is going on. "WTF is an O2 sensor? Am I going to die?". Hell, you'll probably find people with windows rolled down in the winter because they think the climate control is broken because of a bad O2 sensor.

      I don't buy that one second. They could display "bad O2 sensor" with a "More details..." button that tells them what every good mechanic has been telling drivers for ages: "It's not critical but you should get it fixed within the next x months," or "Yeah it's critical and you should get it fixed right away."

      Even if they can't display more details on the car's dashboard, most people have smartphones with 3G now. They can pull over, search for their car model and the exact message and find some website that tells them how critical the problem is.

      Sure there are dumbasses who won't do any of the above, but we really need to stop caring those idiots. Pampering idiots just breeds more unwanted idiots.

    13. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about this: pay attention to the road and quit worrying about what fucking song is on the radio.

    14. Re:Tell me you're joking by T+Murphy · · Score: 2

      Obviously doesn't apply to 99% of drivers, but my parapalegic brother is about to get his driver's license and voice controls would be immensely helpful for him. As he can't use the pedals, he has a lever that you push forward to brake, and pull back to accelerate (the lever depresses the pedals accordingly), and since he only has one hand to steer, there is this knob that gets attached on the steering wheel. To simply activate a turn signal, he has to take his hand off the wheel; if it suddenly starts raining it can be dangerous to try and deal with traffic while attempting to get the wipers on (and adjusted to the right speed), turn on the headlights, and hopefully the windshield doesn't fog up. Should he want to adjust the windows he has to be at a full stop due to how far he would have to move his arm. Voice controls would be a huge accessability feature; while I would never use voice commands for anything I can do with the press of a button or turning a knob, I hope they expand the capabilities of voice commands so people like my brother don't have to put up with inaccessible controls.

    15. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except you're still distracted, and more so. Finding a physical button is a completely different and far simpler mental process than the sort of visualization and syntax translation involved in voice commands. Your eyes might still be on the road, but you're not really paying attention. You're just as spaced out as someone talking on a hands free phone.

      But the fact that you're delusional about it is what makes it truly dangerous.

    16. Re:Tell me you're joking by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      Never underestimate the sheer number of idiots. I work for a company whose product displays NO AC on the simple LCD screen if it loses electrical power.

      Damn near everyone who sees the message and calls support tells me, 'But my air conditioning is working fine!'

      The product has nothing to do with climate control, for the record.

    17. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a 2009 Ford Focus.

      I'm sorry.

    18. Re:Tell me you're joking by jbengt · · Score: 1

      . . perhaps the most common reason for the check engine light is a loose gas cap.

      Perhaps the most common reason for the check engine light is that the manufacturer programs it go on every 20,000 miles or so to get you to bring the car in for routine maintenance, and the dealer charges you $75 or so to turn it off. Fat chance that they would have it tell you what is wrong rather than have you bring it in for 'diagonstics'.

    19. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is nifty, however I still have a MK1 focus for the very reason that I find its ergonomic layout is better than any of the other company cars I've been offered, including some very expensive marques.

      Whilst the voice control aspect in the manner you've described is very useful, I still want to be able to switch between tracks by hitting the toggle on my steering wheel instead of saying "track advance"/"track reverse" in a pseudo English or American accent.

      Besides, James Bond wouldn't be the same with a purely voice activated car.

      Connery: "Eject passenger seat".
      Passenger: "?!"
      Car: *Rolls down windows*

      Connery: "No you blasted thing, eject the passenger seat".
      Passenger: "!!"
      Car: *fires rockets*

      Connery: "Oh to hell with you".
      Passenger: "..."
      Car: *checks oil level*

    20. Re:Tell me you're joking by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Just a tip. If you're a little tired, don't twist your gas cap until it clicks if it's not actually a clicking gas cap. Don't ask me how I know.

    21. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      F1 steering wheels have buttons on the back a few on the front and many knobs that allow them to dial in setting for turns, straightaways and pit lane. F1 driver do need to take their hands off the wheel to set the knobs, though they are still "strapped" down so they do not fly out if the car were to crash. Yes these are all placed in a a position that the driver needs to learn but that is the same as any driver in any car, granted you are probably not doing a 180MPH down your local hi/freeway. If you want to operate your car you learn what the buttons do, and memorize them in a few weeks.

    22. Re:Tell me you're joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps a message saying "Check gas cap" would help people who don't twist it until it clicks.

      My car does exactly that, and it's a 2006 (and prior year models did it too). Nothing new there.

  25. It's okay... by wbr1 · · Score: 1

    beginSarcasm {
    It is a GM car. OnStar will soon be driving for you, or at least report to the police what you were doing and stop the engine for them.
    return trollModeration }

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  26. Designing for the (ignorant) masses by james_van · · Score: 1

    One of the big problems in design these days (in all manners of design, including UI's in cars) is that the average consumer has no idea that things like this are a bad idea. They don't think about how tactile feedback, or how much they'll have to take their eyes off the road, or auditory input with visual output, or any manner of things that people like us (/.'s) think of. They think that touch is high tech, and therefore better (regardless of the implementation), they put form over function, they want the newest and flashiest, even if it isn't the best. Good design takes a back seat to "cool" design more often than not, because the mass public only wants what's new, shiny and cool. Every now and then, good design and cool design intersect and everybody wins, but it's rare.

  27. Eyes on the Road and Hands Upon the Wheel by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Cars should all be required to include speakerphones for mobile phones, both Bluetooth and wired, that override the radio and pick up / hang up on voice command. When they've mastered that, they should get into heads up displays projected onto the road view. And move all dashboard buttons/knobs to the steering wheel, where they should be physical so hands can work them without eyes.

    Carmakers divert $billions and MPGs into safety because we regulated them into protecting us instead of killing us. We have to add views and controls to that regulation, or they'll kill us all with these distracting toys.

    And patrol the roads with unmarked cars cruising to bust people holding their phones while they drive. That should be a $500 fine, then a $1000 and a suspended license, then a $2000 fine, revoked license for 2 years and jailtime - all of which should be to car insurance what smoking 2 packs a day is to medical insurance.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Eyes on the Road and Hands Upon the Wheel by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      Interestingly much of the MyFord Touch interface is done completely by voice command. That way, you don't need to even take the hands off the steering wheel most of the time.

    2. Re:Eyes on the Road and Hands Upon the Wheel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it reads your incoming SMS messages and allows you to send then all via voice as well. It will also control a limited amount of your Andriod apps. I click the button on the steering wheel and say "Mobile Application Pandora" about 10 seconds later Pandora is playing through the stero through a bluetooth stream from my phone. I can touch the screen and change to different stations or just give voice commands to do the same. Steering whell knobs to change tracks as well. What I like about the MyTouch is almost all of the non audio/nav funtions the screen and voice system can operate, you can do with hard buttons as well. Meaning, i still have old school climate control buttons and many small buttons on the wheel for the most common things.

  28. No duh. My phone touch screen is difficult to use by Ajax4Hire · · Score: 1

    No duh.
    My phone touch screen is difficult to use.
    When Capacitive-Touch works it works well but there is always limitations.
    Gloves, calluses, skinny vegetarians and calibration all give Capacitive-Touch big problems.

    To be successful in the car, buttons must be the size of coffee cups.
    And you gotta have positive feedback on select that works for everyone (blind, deaf and any other lack of human sense).
    Yes, blind people do ride in cars and may be asked to press a button.

  29. Speedo by tepples · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh wonderful, so you change the radio station and suddenly your speedo vanishes. Genius!

    That could so be taken the wrong way.

  30. Legal disclaimer? by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

    Every in-car satnav I've seen has a legal disclaimer saying "dangerous to use while driving" which you need to accept every single time you get in the car.

    Do these new touch-screen interfaces have the same thing? Do I need to accept legal responsibility before turning on the A/C? What about things like Facebook and Pandora, which are highly distracting and have nothing at all to do with vehicle operation?

  31. ODB II Readers are cheap by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

    You can buy one at most places for around $60 (US). And a pretty good one at that.

    I agree with the speculation of why they don't include it, but for people who have no idea that an ODB II readers is, the additional information that ah O2 sensor is broken won't keep them from taking it to a dealer anyway.

    Every independent garage has an ODB II reader.

    And no shade tree mechanic goes without. Its time for the car manufacturers to come into the 1990's.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    1. Re:ODB II Readers are cheap by the+phantom · · Score: 1

      And even if you don't want to buy one, a lot of quicky-lube places will do the reading for free.

    2. Re:ODB II Readers are cheap by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

      for people who have no idea that an ODB II readers is, the additional information that ah O2 sensor is broken won't keep them from taking it to a dealer anyway.

      Maybe not, but if the additional happens to be "gas tank cap not properly screwed on" (OBDII code P0455*), that might save the user a trip to the dealer.

      (*Yes I know that's not what the code actually is, but a loose gas cap is, by far, the most common cause of the problem that raises that error code.)

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    3. Re:ODB II Readers are cheap by chis101 · · Score: 1

      If you have a smartphone, you don't even have to spend near $60. Just check ebay for ELM327. Here's one that I got for $13 shipped:

      http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310371228800&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160#ht_4937wt_922

      then, download Torque on your Android phone (I hear that iPhones don't allow this kind of Bluetooth pairing, but I don't have any personal experience), pair it to the Bluetooth module, and you have a $13 OBD-II reader. You can read stats from your car, you can read check engine codes (Torque gives you a text description, and supplies a link to search the web), and clear the check engine light. IMHO, for $13 everyone should keep one of these in their glove box. It's worth it to me if I save one trip to the auto store to get the free reading/clear code just to know that my gas cap was loose.

      Quick note: I bought 2 of these from the link above. They both worked great, but they both have the same Bluetooth ID. It may have issues if you try using multiple of them in close proximity. But you get what you pay for ;) It may be an unregistered Bluetooth device, but it works for my uses.

    4. Re:ODB II Readers are cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When they told me it was "One fifteen" to check the code, I was honestly confused for a moment, and asked: "Uhm, where's the decimal on that?"

      Politely declined, looked up the code online later, and, yes, it was the EVAP system and went away soon after tightening the gas cap.

    5. Re:ODB II Readers are cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean "Fuel Reservoir Underpressure Checkpoint" or some nonsense, surely.

    6. Re:ODB II Readers are cheap by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

      That's awesome. Thanks.

      --
      You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
  32. Re:No duh. My phone touch screen is difficult to u by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

    Yes, blind people do ride in cars and may be asked to press a button.

    Hey, in California, blind people drive cars themselves.

  33. Apps for click-wheel iPod vs. iOS by tepples · · Score: 1

    I never understood why anyone would take a touch based MP3 player over one with well designed and placed buttons.

    Because a personal media player does more than play media. Only a few hand-picked developers ever got to develop .ipg applications for the click-wheel iPod, and if you don't like the selection, tough refuse. Anyone with $1000 to spare has a chance to develop .ipa applications for the iPod touch.

  34. Read the original article it was more objective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There are some pretty negative comments here. The original article while critical at moments was more objective and even balanced. If you have the opportunity check the system out, I think you’ll be impressed.

    I've had the opportunity to use the Cadillac CUE and found it to be exceptional. Considering I still get the newspaper delivered every day I found the system to be very intuitive, clean and straight forward. The vibration feedback as you touch the screen works very well.

    Regarding distracted driving, this system is no more distracting than any other system new or old. It is all how the individual uses it. This in particular system’s integration of voice commands has the potential to minimize looking at and/or touching the screen if the user makes the choice to use it in that fashion.

    Bottom line, give it a shot before you knock it.

  35. Shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hadn't heard about that... link?

  36. Car touchscreens have a 25-year history by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

    The Buick Riviera had all-touch-screen controls way back in 1986. (The screen was a small CRT display.) Consumer Reports hated it and described it as "future schlock". You can see a video of one here (go to 0:20).

    You'd think that car companies could do better now, since we've got so many other examples of what a good touch-screen interface should be like.

    1. Re:Car touchscreens have a 25-year history by shilly · · Score: 1

      That is a really cool video!

    2. Re:Car touchscreens have a 25-year history by PPH · · Score: 1

      since we've got so many other examples of what a good touch-screen interface should be like.

      All covered by patents, no doubt.

      That Buick touchscreen should be in the public domain by now. Anything newer (and any attempt to standardize controls) will get your ass sued into the ground.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  37. Text-to-speech and head up display by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Which is why Siri and Google both are epic failures on their voice control. If I ask for something verbally and the phone returns something to display, that is a complete EPIC fail.

    Which is rather easily taken care of on a car system by using text-to-speech, so the onboard computer can speak out its answers (and that's a technology which has been available for ages, the necessary hardware to do it today is as cheap as dirt.)
    and combining it with head up display (available for ages too, modern pico laser projector can do it nicely, with good contrast and luminosity, very low power requirement and very cheap hardware).

    hmmm... slowly modern cars will start to look like japanese giant mecha: where every attack command is spoken out loudly and confirmed with a buton press!

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  38. Drivers command by DrYak · · Score: 1

    That's why, most of the buttons that the drivers needs (rain wiper, cruise control, access to information on the dash board, volume and phone control...) are either on the steering wheel or on adjacent levers:
    button you can reach and find without losing eye contact.

    The problem is the rest. But the rest is very probably something that you usually turn on/off while starting to drive and that you ignore afterward (like air conditionning).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Drivers command by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately - with the large number of buttons on the steering wheel these days this is starting to be a problem there too.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Drivers command by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I was already unhappy with the mess when some yahoo decided the turn signal would be a good place to put the whole freakin' former dashboard knob array...

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  39. Co-Pilot by drooling-dog · · Score: 1

    There is nothing inherently wrong with these interfaces that can't be fixed by requiring a co-pilot in all moving vehicles. Some might complain, but that's progress.

    1. Re:Co-Pilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd create millions of jobs! Who's complaining?!

  40. Dubious solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because the technologists think its a wonderful idea does not mean it should be done. When shopping for a new car last year we tried a number of vehicals with touch-based consoles. The thought of having to do something in heavy traffic/bad weather was pretty scary. But even more amusing, one salesman had been selling the things for months and could not show us how to change the station or alter temperature. An intuitive interface -- not. Particularly since in order to use it one has to look at it for an extended period to ensure that the changing displays mirror the flow of control desired. I know where the button I need is located -- no further distraction is required. And voice operation, which my current car has, is hysterical -- works well in commercials, though. Reminds me of other technology solutions -- my robot lawnmower just does its job with a minimum of maintenance. The vacuum, on the other hand, is a neurotic narcissus that requires constant attention to keep working. Good engineering in my book is functional engineering -- the product does what it is supposed to without a lot of fuss. These touch-screen cars, on the other hand, demand far too much attention for what they do -- personally, I would rather be driving.

  41. New Ford Explorer by dywolf · · Score: 1

    New Ford Explorer has these capacitive button things and I absolutely detest them.
    Worst idea ever. Sometimes I accidently brush the button and all of a sudden it goes from nice cold AC to full blast emergency heat. Or dials some phone contact. Or jacks the volume frm one extreme to another.

    and then when i WANT to use the button, it frequenctly seems like its not working (no feedback) or working too well (multiclicks vs just one, etc).

    Unfortunately I dont get to pick the vehicle in my case.
    gimme a simple dial interface (or lever, if you remember the even older cars) everytime.
    Quick, easy, simple.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    1. Re:New Ford Explorer by hurfy · · Score: 1

      All this is making me rethink replacing my OLD Explorer..levers, dials, and knobs, oh my :)

      Best is the radio volume: It's a lever/flap type switch that you lift up to raise volume (slowly) and press down to lower volume (much quicker than up). Dead easy to find and use without looking and very intuitive.

      My car has a few issues with power doors still that are annoying. I can only imagine what happens when these new do-it-all systems start to get wonky :(

  42. Good UI Example - Volkswagon 2012 GLI by Stroman+Rebar · · Score: 1

    I recently purchased a 2012 GLI with a SatNav package. I wasn't planning on paying the upgrade fee for the SatNav, but it was implemented so well that I decided it was worth it. While it does have a touch screen for the "fiddly bits", i.e. setting up navigation, searching your mp3 player, navigating your phonebook, etc, the screen is mostly used to display information. The climate controls are all nicely laid out buttons that you don't need to use the screen for, but when you make changes to the climate settings additional information is shown on the screen for a few seconds that confirms your changes. While the radio station presets are on the screen (in an easily usable format), the back and forward buttons for tuning (which are also context sensitive for CD and mp3 play) are discrete buttons just above the screen and replicated on the steering wheel. Likewise the volume control is a discrete knob that also doubles as the map zoom control while in nav mode. As an added bonus, information is replicated in a smaller panel inside the driver's gauge area for even less time spent with eyes off the road. In practice I've found that I'm much less likely to miss my turn due to that second info panel, as it is completely under the driver's direct control. All in all, it is one of the best modern car info system that I have seen. The stereo is co-branded with Fender, and per a 2 minute Google search, developed with Panasonic. They did a nice job.

  43. I hate them by dskoll · · Score: 1

    I have a Prius and while I generally like the car, I hate the touchscreen interface that controls the radio, the air conditioning, etc. When we first bought the car, I found the display incredibly distracting... my eyes would keep wondering over to the fuel consumption graph. Now it's not that bad, but it's still jarring to change radio stations.

    The one saving grace is that there's a cluster of buttons on the steering wheel that also control most aspects of the climate control and radio, so you only occasionally are forced to use the touchscreen.

    1. Re:I hate them by jcdr · · Score: 1

      Did you have a better example of air conditioning and audio touch screen interface for car ? I personally like the air conditioning interface on the Prius II. I observed that passengers found it really simple to use, so it's certainly not so wrong. I think that the audio interface have more room for improvement, especially the radio. Still simple enough for a basic use.

      I agree that the consumption information can be distracting. Probably why the Prius III have it in a more simplified form in the driver indicators.

      And yes, the steering wheel duplication of the common functions is a joy :-)

  44. Touch interfaces can't be used without looking... by iampiti · · Score: 1

    ...And that's the main reason I have a separate (from my touchscreen smartphone) MP3 player with tactile controls. That and that I don't wont to drag down the smartphone's battery more by also using it as a MP3 player.

  45. fanboi's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I do not recall anyone ever complaining about the iOS interface"

    Apple Fanboi posts about how hard it is to use alternative interface. Ignores everyone else who uses alternative interface.

    Whats new?

  46. Mittens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I live, the temperature is below freezing for much of the year. That means I need to wear mittens while driving. Which touchscreen technology is most mitten-friendly?

    1. Re:Mittens? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Where I live, the temperature is below freezing for much of the year. That means I need to wear mittens while driving. Which touchscreen technology is most mitten-friendly?

      Step 1: Turn on vehicle
      Step 2: Turn on HEATER (look for something that is colored red and isn't an ejection button)
      Step 3: Wait a minute or so and relax in the comfort of your climate controlled vehicle.

      You will be totally amazed at how far automotive technology has progressed!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Mittens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know what you're talking about. That's like saying the steering wheel isn't hot to touch in California because there's AC.

      The heater won't start heating the inside of the car before the engine gets hot.

    3. Re:Mittens? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      If the car has been sitting outside all night in -40 temps, it's gonna take more than a minute or two for the interior surfaces, let alone the steering wheel, to warm up enough that you'll want to take those mitts off.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  47. Blind people rely on edges by tepples · · Score: 1

    If they learn to be intimately familiar with my dashboard somehow, then they can learn to be intimately familiar with a touchscreen by going off of how far things are from the edge/corner of the screen itself.

    There's a difference. Physical dials on your dashboard have edges that the passenger can feel. Lit-up areas on a touch screen don't.

  48. Obvious answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop putting all this distracting tech in automobiles. Looking for ways to make it less distracting is missing the point. Examples of text messages that distract drivers and cause accidents are frequently less than 2 words long. ANY distraction is too much distraction. I can't see it being allowed in the first place. It's already illegal for a driver to watch a movie on a screen in the car - now you want them to watch AND interact with a dashboard screen while driving ?

  49. I just won buzzword bingo! by Medievalist · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the marginally appropriate use of a manipulative political meme ("nanny state") in your post. I won a pint of beer by completing my card!

    The other winning slots were "death tax", "skin in the game", "Kony 2012" and of course the free "terrorism" block in the center.

  50. Volt gets it closer to right by DCFusor · · Score: 2

    I own a Volt, and it has both touchscreen and real buttons, well, capacitive and real buttons. I like it pretty well, though at first all that motion/animation and junk on the middle screen was hazardous (there are two, one in the usual spot for a speedo, that doesn't do much distracting). Still, people on the GM-Volt board used to complain that they'd hit the wrong "real" button when trying to change drive modes, and accidentally turn the car off. Gee, that only takes a short glance to confirm before you double-tap to re-map into "sport" mode, but some people....don't get it no matter how well executed it seems. I'm pretty doggone fond of this car - charge it off my solar system, cash just piles up in your wallet when you stop buying gas most of the time. The bling is fun, but it's not the core of the driving experience at all - it's the car that's great, not the bling.

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
  51. Touchscreens Suck by bobbutts · · Score: 1

    The auto industry has abandoned safety for shiny tech and high mpg. Distracting and difficult to use controls and my personal pet-peeve, low rolling resistance tires, which add significantly to stopping distances.

  52. We don't want to be modern here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm the owner of a 2004 Honda Accord with the SatNav package which means I have a big *old* touchscreen interface that controls a large portion of my car's cabin features. This little SatNav package is driven by a Hitachi SH2/WinCE computer packed into a DVD drive in my trunk. About two years ago the hardware started to fail, causing intermittent reboots and lockups of the touchscreen interface.

    Every time this happens I lose full control of my cabin A/C controls, radio presets, etc, etc. not even just my GPS is gone. Half of the car's functionality goes with it. This is not a cheap part to replace despite how old and dated the tech is and if you go through the dealership it's astronomical.

    What possible advantage are we really given by placing complex systems in front of simple devices like an A/C system? Do we really want to make our cars more failure prone? Are they really just supposed to be disposable every five years now?

    I think consumers should fight tooth and claw to keep things simple here, else it's going to cost them more in the long run.

  53. It's impossible... by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

    Its impossible...

    To shove a Caddilac up your nose...

    Its just impossible....

    impossible.....

    impossible.

  54. Touch Screens vs. Watching the Road by Che+Guevarra · · Score: 1

    Touch screens have always struck me as the worst possible addition to a car control interface. It seems like such common sense and yet year after year more car manufacturers introduce touch screens. They should have been banned long before texting on cell phones. Anything that takes your eyes off the road is a bad idea. There is nothing wrong with buttons, dials, or anything else you can feel with your fingers/hands. Heads-up displays in conjunction with a tactile control surface should have been the way forward, not tablets on the center console. Boo-tai jung-tzahng-duh!

  55. Claim that most people have smartphones by tepples · · Score: 1

    most people have smartphones with 3G now

    Where did you hear that? Requiring all drivers to carry smartphones with 3G would add an estimated $360 per year to the cost of owning a car, which is the monthly bill difference between Virgin Mobile USA's cheapest payLo (dumbphone) plan and its cheapest Beyond Talk (smartphone) plan.

  56. don't text and drive! by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    you won't be able to keep your attention properly on your radio/climate/navigation control screen.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  57. Crazy old timers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Future Generations will be amazed when they hear that back in the old days (like now) cars were driven at high speed in totally manual mode, in all weather, with no radar or ITS anti collision devices, by a human driver: Cars, massive multi-trailer trucks, and motorcycles travelled in opposite directions on the same road with only a line painted on it to separate them. Not only that, but by the 21st century the cars were cluttered with entertainment, communication, and navigation devices randomly demanding the driver's arrention with eyes off the road for seconds at a time. And, they were allowed to keep driving into their 80s How did anyone survive?

  58. pictograms by axd1967 · · Score: 1

    I noticed a similar issue on some types of buses (Belgium): there is a small greenish monochrome 6inx6in display that seems to offer space for inch-wide pictograms to show info such as brakes, lights, etc. Problem is that the display is empty by default, and pictograms appear in a stack-like fashion (stacking in "reading order", from left to right): when eg beamlights are switched on, a pictogram for the lights appears in the next free spot, rather than in a fixed spot. So it is not possible to know what system is actually active other than by reading the entire display, because the pictograms do not have a fixed place.

    --
    -alex-
  59. Amen! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Touch screens in cars or Airplanes are not at all like pushing buttons even if they look the same they do not feel the same. The mechanical devices are mostly located so you do not have to look at them or even take your hands off the steering wheel. In Aircraft (in the US there is no s for plural) you usually have the option of "auto pilot" and you normally have ATC keeping you and other aircraft from trying to occupy the same space. But even in aircraft, much of the "button pushing" is done before you take off, or even start the engine. Still, when you are bouncing along in the clouds and cant see the wing tips on your own airplane you are looking at the instruments that tell you where you are and where you are going while "pushing buttons" whether they are a symbol on a screen or buttons around the edges. OTOH ATC does make mistakes and you have to be paying attention to catch them.

    Even changing your flight plan at hundreds of miles per hour with instruments many times more complex than the dash of a car is far safer than changing the temperature on the air conditioner in your car on the highway.