Slashdot Mirror
Man Arrested In Greece For "Blasphemous" Facebook Page
An anonymous reader writes "A 27-year old man was arrested yesterday in Greece (Greek-language original) by the electronic crime police, for creating a Facebook page "Geron Pastitsios" which made fun of an extremely respected Orthodox Christian monk who lived in Mount Athos, as well as the Greek Church. The arrest came promptly after the Greek far-right party — which holds 7% of the parliament seats — submitted an official petition asking the government to take down the page. The charges that the young man faces are 'blasphemy' and 'disrespect to the religious beliefs of others.'" What would the UN say?
with all this freedom of speach.
Well, perhaps this kind of controversy is exactly what the Greek government needs to turn attention away from the economy.
Tracking down those vile criminals, one bit at a time.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
'blasphemy' is anachronism from middle ages. 'disrespect to the religious beliefs of others.' is exactly what he have done.
So tired of religion. When will it end?!
As the founder of the 42nd New Reformed Neo-Rebel Orthodox Pastafarian Church (newly created, 30 seconds ago), I find that all laws against blasphemy are blasphemous against my religion.
So such laws must be eliminated because they are self-violating.
Test your net with Netalyzr
How the hell they managed to lift the privacy of the user and give his name to the public so quickly... I really doubt there is such a fast lane for any other crime. Obviously, a "Barbara Streisand" effect has ensued on the Greek blogosphere and Facebook pages were similar pages have popped up.
"Sum Ergo Cogito"
but I think that Greeks got a sick sense of humor.
...to repeal the Greek blasphemy law is here.
I don't mind dating a girl that has been with everybody, as long as she had a good shower afterwards.
Politics is the same everywhere. I'm guessing it's an election year in Greece too. Politicians doing outlandish things they know will never hold up in any court is what we call "tuesday" across the pond. Conservatives over here have done things like pass laws forbidding global warming. Not research into it, or funding for it, but global warming itself. They've made being the Earth a crime. Elsewhere in America, there is a state now where, by law, every woman is pregnant. No, I'm not joking -- they legislated the definition of conception to be two weeks before sexual contact. No more virgins here, good sirs! Still no word on whether they're allowed to use the car pool lanes.
And those aren't even examples of religious non-sense, which makes the above examples look positively civil by comparison. *hugs* Greek citizens, we feel your pain too.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
The monks on Mount Athos have a quite a history of corruption and greed (see, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatopedi_monastery#Land_deal_controversy). I wonder if this blasphemy case is a retaliatory measure against a whistleblower?
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Don't the Greek have more important things to worry about?
So they're down to arresting people for hurting their feelings, are they? Or are they still merely arresting them for hurting their God's feelings?
So when someone makes a video attacking Islam, he's called "far right" and it is the moderates who make his film illegal and ban him from their country (as the UK did to Geert Wilders). But when someone makes a facebook page attacking Orthodox Christians, he's a moderate and the people who want the facebook banned are called "far right".
Just trying to make sure I understand the definition of "far right".
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Crappy right-wing deregulation & economic policymaking is allowed. Fighting illegal wars against far weaker enemies is allowed, with massive civilian casualties. Being an anti-immigration racist is allowed. ---- But show an exposed female nipple on TV, or say something negative about the Church or Clergy, and they will hunt you down, brother! --------- These people need to get a life.. Whatever this man said online, its freedom of speech! Love it or hate it...
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
Did one of them finally pay taxes?
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
the rules of your club to people who aren't in your club.
This just in:
My belief states I always get to play the ship piece in monopoly. Anyone who says otherwise should be arrested for blasphemy. If Parker Brothers stop putting the piece in the game, then they are committing blasphemy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Greek government is blaspheming against Zeus, the true god of Greece. Time to arrest them all and put Sam Worthington (son of Zeus) in charge.
Ahh europe where "freedom of speech" means "say anything you want unless someone doesn't like it"
Similar comments have been seen in Scandinavia too, from e.g. Ana Maria Narti in tabloid Expressen:
"Varför har vi lagar om religionsfrihet, varför har vi religiösa skolor och varför får religionen plats i det offentliga livet, t ex vid riksdagens högtidliga öppnande? Inte i första hand därför att internationella konventioner kräver det, utan därför att religion utgör en oerhört viktig del i många människors identitet. Det finns folk som definierar sig själva genom tron – vissa grupper av judar, armenier, tibetaner. Vi visar respekt för alla medmänniskor om lagarna, skolan och det offentliga livet skyddar alla individers och alla gruppers identitet. Och lagarna behövs därför att våldet riktat mot tron fortfarande är närvarande mitt bland oss. "
Google translation:
"Why do we have laws on religious freedom, which is why we have religious schools and why religion must place in public life, such as the Parliamentary solemn opening? Not primarily because international conventions require it, but because religion is a very important part of many people's identity. There are people who define themselves by faith - some groups of Jews, Armenians, Tibetans. We show respect for all fellows of the laws, school and public life will protect all individuals and all groups identity. And the laws are needed because the violence directed against the belief is still present in our midst."
Releigious people want to have something to say, in and as part of everyday society too I am afraid. They were essentially kicked out of politics a few centuries ago in the educated world but the recent happenings on the international scene has made religious beliefs "part of an identity"... Sigh...
This is getting dangerous, all over the world. Science has not killed off superstition and vague, wishful ideas.
For this sort of behavior on the part of others claiming to be Christians. I don't want to be persecuted for speaking my mind and what I believe, and so I do not believe anyone should be arrested or harmed for speaking out or posting things online. There is a fine line to walk when things become violent (death threats) or obscene (pornographic), but in so far as possible we need to be open and free in dialog if we want to have civil and prosperous societies.
This is one of the few things that is still great about the US (where I live), though it is slipping day by day even here. But arresting someone for what they post? Or worse, in Islamic areas, killing people for what *others* post? I don't see how that sort of behavior can lead to anything good.
William George
Doesn't blasphemy require attacking actual deities or assorted holy objects/texts/persons, rather than mere religious functionaries, however pious?
If anything, isn't it (in the context of an ostensible monotheism, like eastern orthodoxy) verging on blasphemy to assert that satire against a mere man is blasphemous?
Obviously, religious functionaries have the same interest in conflating their own status with the priviliged status accorded to dieties, just as politicians generally do their best to conflate their own persons and administrations with lofty things like 'Nation' and 'The Office of the President'; but, in both cases, it is actually a vital part of the protection of the genuinely venerated things to mock and dissuade the assorted grifters who attempt to parasitize them. Not doing that swiftly turns your religion into a cult or your government into an autocracy...
Islam needs a Monty Python of their own to put things into perspective. Of course, the comedy troupe would most certainly be hunted in this day and age.
"Freedom of Speech except when it comes to my stuff" in untenable.
Yes, I remember Life Of Brian was censored in parts of the UK. The above point still stands.
The extreme right-wing party in question - let's call it what it is, neofascist - has been a much mocked tiny minority for the last thirty years or so in Greece. They ran magazines praising the values of Hitler's Germany, the old dodecatheon (I kid you not) of Zeus and Hera and kept to their own niche of society talking about ancient aliens that gifted the race with superweapons waiting for the day to come to rise again. But no more. When the economy took a dramatic downturn they turned their preaching toward populism instead. Gone are the mentions of the Gods from any speeches or articles now that they figured they can catch a lot more followers (and votes) by supporting the most fanatical aspects of the Orthodox Church instead. So this is what it's all about. An opportunity to appeal to the masses as defending Christianity when several of their higher ups weren't even Christians up to a few years ago, and a party openly supporting racism making a bid for political power any way they can get it. They could care less about the venerable monk.
As per usual, it's sloppy shorthand for "do not like".
As per usual, it's just someone calling a political party what it calls itself. They are talking about Golden Dawn. If you'd like to go into Wikipedia and change the political position of Golden Dawn to "do not like" from "Far-right" I think you will find that both liberal and conservative editors will tell you to take a hike.
My work here is dung.
-- Roman law maxim
Non-Linux Penguins ?
In Christianity, there are usually the devils viewed as the bad guys and Christians are often speaking against them.which could be considered blasphemy against god/gods in satanism. How about arresting all Christians in Greece?
I am a Christian. I am not Orthodox, but I have enjoyed reading about their church and traditions online, and I have a lot of respect for them as compared to a lot of Protestantism.
But this is intolerable. Requiring anybody to respect anything is slavery and is an unChristian violation of liberties. The Bible says in the New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15 that the church's judgment is to be enforced only within the church. Even St. Paul the Apostle expressly denied that he had any authority to judge those who are outside of the church.
This is wrong, immoral, and unChristian.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
This could be construed as "incendiary", like in Holocaust denial laws in Germany, or yelling "fire" in a crowded theater (bad pun intended).
Getting fined in California for selling foie gras, or jailed for growing grass strikes me as far more absurd.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
Just a bunch of thought criminals.
You have been found guilty by the elders of the town of uttering the name of our Lord, and so, as a blasphemer...you are to be stoned to death.
A 27-year old man was arrested yesterday in Greece (Greek-language original) by the electronic crime police
look, can't we just remove their batteries or reboot them or something? maybe a re-install is needed?
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
And they wonder why they're poor. Hopefully they'll be out of the EU soon.
Maybe the Greek government should spend their time fixing the disastrous economy they created instead of wasting time with this nonsense.
Oh wait, it was a Christian country. Then it is cool.
Just another reason why religions aren't worth the weight of the books they hold holy. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that you can believe and also hold your religion in contempt then I further came to the conclusion even that isn't worth it. Everyone is so busy kissing their "God's" ass they are blinded from what is right in front of them and all around them.
Stop being such butthurt little pricks and have a sense of humor at the least. You don't have to agree with someone's point of view or opinion but you don't need to cut their heads off, rape their children or incarcerate them for life because of it. Religion is full of the worst of the worst because they let their extremism destroy themselves and everyone around them.
I'm sure your God and prophets, whichever yours may be, are proud of you all...or maybe they weep a little everyday at the total failure of comprehension and lack of compassion for their fellow man/woman that their followers possess. Sure, that's generalizing but it's those with the greatest authority on Earth of those religions that the religion as a whole is judged as. Extremism might be the minority but they are the most sensationalized in the media and that leads to more of it.
Not quite sure what the big deal is...
It's all Greek to me!
*ducks*
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Slashdot usually attracts people with very specific mindsets about the supernatural, so I don't expect much sympathy, but I will say it anyway.
When does the freedom of speech cross the line of insults and a lack of respect for others? For instance,
- If you have a business, is it ok for me to stand with a sign outside of it that says "This business is the worst", and try to convince people not to go in?
- Is it ok for me to make a Facebook group that is against someone specifically and calls him names, edits pictures of him and uploads them online or fabricates stories to make someone look bad?
- Can I follow your daughter or son around and tell them that their father/mother is the worst?
and so on...
People live and die believing certain things. For some, including myself, belief in the supernatural is core to who they are. Why do people, that do not believe the same, feel the need to make fun, ridicule and try to convince them of how wrong they are? In the end of the day, most religions promote a way of life that if followed makes a 'model citizen', don't steal, don't kill, don't cheat, pay your taxes, respect others and so on.
this guy had this page for a long time. he was mocking a (dead now) religious figure (father Paisios) who is supposed to have prophesied a lot of thing about the future of Greece and how Greece will take back lands from Turkey etc. etc. This father Paisios is very famous among the right-wing-religious-low-education nutjobs in Greece. Also a big deal of those prophecies have been constructed by others after his death. Also he is known for "miracles" that he has made after his death ( saving people blabla )
.. and you know the rest.
The problem was not the site that his guy had in facebook making fun of paisios. What hurt the religious nutjobs in Greece was the fact that this 27 years old guy, recently ( august if i'm not mistaken ) fabricated a new miracle of Paisios ( a story of how the mother of a young boy who had an accident and was in critical condition, visited the tomb of Paisios and the next day the boy miraculously came out of his coma ). So he spread word of his own fabricated miracle to a couple of Greek religious blogs and from then it was very easy for the most part of the (right,religious) Greek blogosphere and news site to reproduce the news. Hell, even a newspaper had a whole front page cover story on the miracle. The miracle was also front page in the Greek neo-nazi party ( golden dawn ) website
link with screenshots of the story where he confessed his prank: http://vlahatasamis.blogspot.gr/2012/08/blog-post_1999.html
You can imagine now how the story ended. The guy came forward and said "gotcha, the miracle wasn't real, I just imagined it". So he actually trolled them and they bit hard. Of course that hurt a lot, and from that point it was only "logical" that those right-wing guys would ask for his arrest. The golden dawn party indeed brought the issue to the parliament
The light at the end of the tunnel is people are incresingly unwilling to tolerate government opression of their right to free speech regardless of which country they reside.
I hope the kid not only refuses to apologize but demands one from the state and gets rich from donations of support in the process.
The Islamic countries do that stuff all the time. So does China. So do various other third-world countries. We ignore it, because it's _over there_, in the third world, where it belongs.
We like to think of Greece as being a first-world country, one of the most advanced and enlightened countries in the world, because Socrates and Plato and Aristotle and Alexander the Great and Euclid were all Greek and because the Library of Alexandria was Greek and because we're all taught in school that democracy was invented in Athens (a dubious assertion, but a popular one) and so on and so forth -- Classical Antiquity. Greece was a major source of culture...
But that was more than a thousand years ago. Greece today is actually rather a mess.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I heard a comment on the radio to the effect that much of the controversial speech we allow in America really would be illegal in much of the world. I support our laws, but it is useful to understand that we are the odd man out. There is no harm in explaining this to the world.
FYI, I do support our laws, as a practical matter too many of these anti-hate speech laws don’t prevent hate speech, they just only allow government sanctioned hate speech.
There was a really great article in a german newspaper these days:
http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2012-09/religion-ideologie-respekt
Basically, the author is spot on - religion always demands respect, but doesn't offer any and doesn't deserve half as much as it already gets.
The believers are bullies, and we need to stop allowing them to shove everyone around.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The Bible says in the New Testament in 1 Corinthians 15 that the church's judgment is to be enforced only within the church.
The bible means whatever people want it to mean. I'm pretty sure I can find some verse in the bible to directly contradict the one you cite. Christians have never been particularly bashful about trying to force the church's judgement upon others. Evangelizing (sometimes at the point of a sword) is a huge part of the history of christianity. This is simply one more instance.
Let me begin by saying that I am ashamed to be Greek and to be living in this country. I am ashamed by the acts of more than 50% of the people who now that they have fallen into a tight spot (financially) they show their ignorance and lack of proper education by turning all their false hopes to false and/or irrelevant Gods. Having said that, I would like to point out that as an atheist I feel that most kinds of religion insult my intelligence. However I am defenseless towards them since the "law" chooses to defend only one side. They defend religious people when someone insults their beliefs. If someone insults my logic though, I would have a really hard time convincing the judge about that. It seems so biased. Since yesterday when I read the news I feel bitter. Even worse, if you read the comments on the social media about this, at least half of Greek people think that the police was right to do that, and they ask for even harsher punishment for the "perpetrator". It doesn't matter if it's Christian Orthodox or Muslim anymore, have no doubt about that: Greece IS a muslim country within europe, just with a slightly different God. They are fanatics, and they are uneducated. Avoid us. I will try to do the same...
So, every religion is allowed to blasphemously attack against science and every non-religion person, but when it would be otherwise around, it is a crime.
Fuck all christians.
Exercising my freedoms here in the fat ass states of the dumb measuring units of America. Mod this up. You can't type things like this in Greece and get away with it.
Also, good by and good luck.
i hate playing the devil's advocate and i hate those fucktard greeks who say "when we built acropolis the rest were living in the trees", because people who only refer to the past, do not have a present or a future. Having said that, I'm sensing some kind of malice in your "dubious assertion" and that's why I will provide a clarifying link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_democracy
Is that you?
I reserve the express right to call religious people fairy-tale loons who need a date with a science book, and athiests d-bag deniers whose "rationalist" anti-belief beliefs are as laughable and paradoxical as the faith-based beliefs they pretend to be superior to.
The Greeks had better spend their law enforcement powers to catch tax evaders, not faith evaders.
Why aren't they arresting all the Christians for the blasphemy against the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
These idiots do not believe he exists.....
A Greek standup comedian, in a (subtitled) video titled "The limits of religion" talks about the story:
http://youtu.be/Xaa9SWjik-g
http://www.grcrun11.gr - MUDA tribute
"There is no such thing as the Free Market"
The sooner blasphemy laws are called into effect the better, lest the Flying Spaghetti Monster smite you down with his glorious tomatoey spaghetti tendrils!
Blasphemy (as defined by the God of Moses, Jehovah) is defined as speaking against Him (i.e: Actively working against his active force / holy spirit.) Committing blasphemy requires belief in the God one blasphemes against. Calling one's God a liar is probably the best example of blasphemy I can give. In most Biblically based religions it is the only unforgivable sin. Note this is not because the blasphemer doesn't want to follow God, nor is it because he mistakenly believes in a false god. It is instead that he is actively attempting to dissuade others from or misinform them about God while knowing the truth. It can't be done on accident, and it can't be committed by a non-believer.
Where genius and insanity become confused true wisdom is found
Why was this post tagged as "crime"? /. please excuse me I might get caught up in how tagging works here..but IMO that wasn't an appropriate tag *sigh*
In what universe was this a crime? Its not even close to that.
I am new to
between world's governments going crazy and two Bohemia Interactive's ArmA 3 game developers being held as criminals This is just sad.
This? Nothing on all the people who are bgetting killed in Pakistan and elsewhere because of "blasphemy"? bias much?
Matthew 13. Plus He was always saying how his teachings would be scorned and rejected and people would be persecuted for believing in them.
Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms
as amended by Protocols No. 11 and No. 14
Rome, 4.XI.1950
Articles 9 and 10: full text
Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
Article 10 – Freedom of expression
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
-0-
There is NOTHING in there that says ANYONE, whether real or imaginary, has the right not to be offended.
Maxim: If it is not specifically unlawful, then it is lawful (measured against Common Law). Stuff like murder, fraud, rape; all unlawful, whereas walking through the middle of a city with a bow and arrows in plain sight is not. Local ordinances may vary, please seek legal advice.
Corollary: If it is not specifically illegal, then it is legal (measured against Statute). It's illegal to withhold rent, but it is not illegal to place that money in an escrow account until the landlord fulfills his part of the contract, eg repairing a roof.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Sorry, can't agree with your comparison of Richard Dawkins and religious nuts. Richard Dawkins would be more than happy to re-evaluate his views were he presented with any scientifically valid evidence that any religion's statements about reality are actually true (eg, God does respond to prayer, etc). In the face of complete absence of such evidence, he rightly continues to call bullshit on these claims, and just as rightly points out that we shouldn't tiptoe around bullshit claims and intolerance just because they're driven by religious views.
Note that, unlike religious nuts, he does not call for censorship of the views he objects to, merely does his best to present his views.
I find the resurgence of religion in the last decade or so truly scary, people take for granted all the advances science keeps bringing us and keep trying to impose their medieval views on everybody around them, regardless of the damage it causes.
The article was all greek to me. Was the comment making fun or making hate, big differance there.
Even we up in the cold north of Canada have hate crime laws prohibiting free speech that cross a line.