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US House Science Committee Member: Evolution Is a Lie From Hell
First time accepted submitter badford writes "Representative Paul Broun (Georgia Republican) said that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are 'lies straight from the pit of hell' meant to convince people that they do not need a savior. It would not be quite as shocking if Broun did not sit on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. What impact could this have on policy? What impact could this have on STEM education not just in Georgia but all over the U.S.?"
It's an election year. Don't believe anything they say. Republicans this year especially have been saying the craziest crap because they know crazy people are more likely to vote than sane ones, who long ago gave up and decided the world was run by crazy people. Oh, did you just see what I did there? :( This guy has a long list of failures politically and personally (4 marriages)... I suspect he'd wear a pink tutu and sing songs from Little Mermaid if he thought he'd get more votes.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
is there even a House Committee on Science, Space and Technology?
Set your phasers on "funky"!
It's on the internet. The fundamental enabling technology for the internet is the semiconductor. The semiconductor is a child of quantum mechanics - there is no classical behavior that would predict it. Even though quantum mechanics are present in all chemistry and even vacuum tubes, those both have classical behavior that can be seen with the naked eye, and appreciated without quantum mechanics.
Semiconductors can't. They're "Devil Science", just like those others.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
We certainly need a saviour from people like him
If you don't like evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory, and believe it's all lies, then just don't bother with it. Leave alone the poor guys believing such insanities. Let them do as they want, if it's not true, they should not achieve anything dangerous, right?
In the end, we will see who was right...
Video of some good progressive thrash music
Shouldn't people stop having imaginary friends when they grow up? Especially imaginary friends with ulterior motives.
I'm not anti-religious, I'm anti-idiot. I'm fine with people believing in God, but not people who think that said belief means science is wrong.
I wonder what he would think of the Pope saying that there is no conflict between the theory of evolution and church doctrine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_John_Paul_II
Well, if the federal government didn't control education policy and funding, then it would have no impact whatsoever. If you advocate the involvement of government in education, you can have very little to say in opposition to elected officials' pedagogical opinions being leashed on the classroom.
If humans are mostly water, and beer is mostly water, then humans must be mostly beer.
Why I believe that we need to do a great deal of redistricting and add more congress-critters. 435 people are just not enough to get a decent cross section or represent enough of the U.S. How can 1 person represent an average of 716,000 people.
Both... To get elected in America, you either need lots of $$$ or the backing of one of the two major political parties, hence $$$. The primary system in most states ensures that only candidates who can successfully pander to about 0.5% of the population (die hard party loyalists) ever make it on to the ballot for the general election. So it is often the case that you either need to be exceedingly ignorant, or a very good liar in order to get nominated.
The voters suffer because we very often don't even get to vote for the most suitable candidates for office. That is also the reason that compromise in Washington D.C. is almost impossible. Failure to tow the party line means a primary challenge, and possibly not being able to get a nomination for the next election.
See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge64kMFoQEo
It has the greatest Youtube comment I've ever read too:
'You know what this video needs? More deer heads.' Thank you, Crossss8!
I know it's scary to think that this fellow will be making technology decisions for the rest of us, but just voting against him doesn't solve the problem.
It takes generations of well educated people to slough off these ridiculous old world superstitions. He probably has very nice salt-of-the-earth parents who worked hard all their lives and mis-attributed their success and happiness as gifts from a deity. A paycheck for living "good lives."
But in every generation kids question everything their parents stand for, adopting some, discarding others. If we keep educating them, if they see enough of the wide world to know that the only justice is what we make, that their are billions of people living good lives who believe completely different things, then they'll see through these lies, and pass along a different subset of their beliefs to their kids.
It's too late to fix this guy. if you want to vote out his successors, vote against ignorance; vote some of your hard earned money toward education. My parents did, and that's why this guy is now in the minority.
This makes me angry and depressed at the same time.
You can't really reach a consensus on many issues when such differences exist. Democracy makes the Majority "right" so it is important not to let their views go unchallenged.
Because they might be a U.S. Congressman who has a direct impact on science and technology funding, tax law, and application in this country?
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
His brain is not connected to a single rational thought, but he is a fucking elected congressman.
Even better, let's just lobotomize anyone who disagrees with current academic knowledge, because clearly they are mentally unfit to be part of society. In case two people are disagreeable on a topic where currently there is no scientific consensus simply jail them until one of them can be lobotomized.
It's entirely possible to have a well developed sense of the divine (without knowing exactly what it is and understanding that it may be entirely neurological) and be entirely free of Christianity, Islam, or any other fan club affiliation that requires an unproven belief in invisible friends, holy war, talking snakes, ritual blood drinking and/or body eating or additional taxation in the form of tithing.
Cheers!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
... is that it's true whether you believe in it, or not.
Michele Bachmann serves on the house intelligence committee. She was probably appointed by the moron from Georgia.
I'd like to take a visit. Seems like there's some good science going on in there. I'll just wait by the edge and catch a few big ones.
(am i even allowed to post a comment on a story I submitted? I best consult the hell-pit.)
-badford
for conflict of interest
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
If he's right and only Protestant Young-Earth Creationist Republicans go to heaven, I'm willing to go to hell of my own accord if it means I'll never have to hear anything from them again.
Ezekiel 23:20
People do not live in a vacuum. People who believe in imaginary friends and believe those imaginary friends have sent facts and instructions for how to live, usually want to make everyone else believe those facts and live according to those instructions.
evolution, or lack thereof
foreign policy with countries dominated by other religions
the legal status of a fertilized embryo - stem cell research and abortion
contraception, sex education
porn
many other social policies
http://xkcd.com/154/
... have declared war on the rest of us. They have declared war on modern society.
And no, there isn't any reasoning with these people, the Dominionists. They are stone cold nuts and they even use the vocabulary of war in their screeds. Any attempt to reason with them is assuming that they are capable of rational thought. They are not. Deep down, they actually and truly believe that science is *the* enemy. It is a position that is beyond the reach of any rational thought, so ridicule is the only tool left. If given half a chance, they would drag us back to pre-inudustrial society with just the Bible as the sole text.
He needs to be held up to ridicule from sea to shining sea.
Give him a piece of your mind https://www.facebook.com/brounforcongress
--
BMO
I'm fine with people believing in God too. That doesn't prevent me from thinking that they lack intelligence and mental strength.
Science never has the pretension of claiming belief but always just gives us theories which have a base in the physical (mathematical included) world.
Curiously, the Big Bang theory was often attacked for being "religious", that is stating that the Universe didn't always exist but was created a finite time ago.
GOP = only for big biz.
Sometimes it is easy to tell
who is or not mentally well.
Just ask them and see
if it's just a theory
or lies straight from the pit of hell.
Skeptical Limericks
Should invalidate him to serve on that particular committee.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I think it would be a better idea if you had to pass some basic science (or whatever) test before you were able to chair a committee on science (or whatever).
But then I remember that congressmen are retarded people who got through life by pandering to the highest bidder
Until their neighbors declared that, due to their majority on the local School Board, evolution, history, a large chunk of geology, and set theory will no longer be taught. And all children will have a compulsory christian values class. And if you have a problem with it you are free to set up a completely separate school system on your own. And a separate medical system. Heck, unless you are willing to do things all their way you are 'free' to personally replicate all of western society yourself.
For given values of 'free' a 'free society' ceases to be a society at all.
People like this guy are worse than terrorist. A terrorist attack makes at most tens of thousands of people suffer. These Christian fundamentalists in high places can make sure that 100s of thousands of children don't get enough chances in life because they don't get the education they need.
-- Cheers!
... republican inquisition!
Privacy is terrorism.
I think that scientist ignore politics and such ludicrous claims too often. There should be strong visible position of the scientific community against these claims so that any sane even uninformed person could see, that such opinions are insane and unacceptable in modern society.
I for one welcome our new Canadian overlords
Evolution is fact, it happens, we know it happens, there is proof. I have one question for him, "Can you prove creationism?" , The answer is no. I'm not about to debate what the right answer is but if your sitting on a board that regulates part of the school system then you must bow to logic and reason and evolution is the only reasonable choice. If you pick creationism then you need to bow to every single possible variant. There is no difference between Jesus and Harry potter as far as science goes, both had "wands" both used "magic" and both at least to me don't really exist.
Science says that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is impossible. (Some stupid argument about the weight of pasta.) Therefore science is wrong. QED.
BROUN'S 4-WAY TEST
I am committed to protecting the constitutional rights and pocketbooks of every American. I will apply the following four-way test to every piece of legislation that comes before the House for a vote:
1) Is it Right/Moral?
2) Is it Constitutional?
3) Is it Necessary?
4) Is it Affordable?
Ask Slashdot: Is Paul Broun fit to be:
1) A US legislator - responsible for national policy affecting Science, Space and Technology.
2) A medical professional - tasked with health care of the sick and ill.
3) An American Citizen - (ideally) part of a rational, responsible, and well-informed electorate.
4) A Christian - committed to following the teachings of Christ.
5) A Homo Sapien - the name, more or less, means "of the same wisdom/intelligence".
========== "Hello World" in my programming language of choice: ATG - LET THERE BE LIFE - TAG ==========
As a native and resident of the state of Georgia, let me apologize to the Slashdot community on behalf of this representative. I can assure you that he does not represent my district. Also, I went to a Magnet high school that was focused on math, science, and technology, so there is a significant number of Georgia residents that do not actually believe that evolution, the big bang (maybe The Big Bang Theory, but that's another topic), and genetics are not, in fact, tricks and lies of Satan.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
What I do know is that between the political environment, the sheer dumbification of americans and religious bigotry, I will choose other destinations for my holidays or visits.
As for myself, I always figured it was likely a situation much like Iceland / Greenland. Give the more likable of the afterlives an ugly name, and most of the the assholes will do whatever they can to be sent to that other place. So, um...yeah, see ya in hell! *Wink wink.*
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Despite loudmouth morons like this, there are plenty of religious people capable of managing their daily lives and even participating usefully in science. We happen to notice the deranged assholes like this one, and we hang our heads in shame that large chunks of the American populace agree with them. But not every religious American is an asshole, and you wouldn't fix the world by getting rid of an awful lot of nice, useful people.
I sure wouldn't mind it if this person evaporated. This kind of pernicious stupidity makes the world a worse place. But I'm not going to let it make me stupid with the fallacy of hasty generalization. (Heck, for all I know this person is a useful human being when he's not being a useless loudmouth fuck, but I'm willing to generalize at least that far.)
The US got where it is despite every President, Supreme Court Justice, and Congressman (well, nearly all) being religious, in some degree or another. Being religious doesn't have to make you a useless piece of shit. Even if it does in this guy's case.
It's not about christianity, it's about subsets of christianity that not only reject science, but try to force their idiotic beliefs onto others.
What's a "school system"? I thought a school was a teacher, teaching students something they want to learn. Anyone can hire a teacher to teach anything they want. This "school system" concept you're talking about seems to be a lot of extra nonsense that's only loosely related to teaching or learning. Why do we need to give up our freedom to have a "system" when teachers can teach and students can learn at least as well without it (and for a lot less money)?
Eeesh... It's genuinely frightening that you think that's a workable system...
In case two people are disagreeable on a topic where currently there is no scientific consensus....
Name that topic.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Are you purposely being obtuse on this? Do you have any concept of how education worked before the school "system" was established? This is complete non-sense of the worst kind as it would doom us to repeat the past where the vast majority of the country went uneducated and then comes all the sweeping problems associated with the uneducated masses such as massively increased crime rates across the board and vastly increased numbers of people in poverty.
A school is a lot more than just a teacher and students. This myopic attitude needs to go away as it is detrimental to the well being of a lot of children out there who's parents are either too busy or too stupid to teach their kids themselves.
Standards are well accepted on the Internet, I wonder why there is such resistance to the same things in the real world...
Except:
1) The Big Bang theory is something that arises from the study of physics. Saying it's "evil" says that the fundamentals of theoretical physics are evil. Of course physics will be affected if some idiot with a bit of power starts mouthing off that people studying the origins of the universe are evil. Some of those people are quite devout Christians.. Think it doesn't affect them and their state of mind, which affects their work? Technology arises due to knowledge of physics; they're very tightly interlinked. Railing against one part of it has knock on effects everywhere.
2) Saying evolution (which has been observed) is not important? Hello? There's no problem with having a design base? Well, hey, no problem with doing theology as long as you don't have anything to do with God I guess.. It's a part of Biology, and explains much about how things have arisen, the interactions, and why things have become the way they have.
No, America isn't anti science. The guy that's the subject of this is, quite frankly, and idiot. He's a member of a scientific board. What should happen is everyone calmly sits down and says "Interesting postulation. Lets see your working, experimental evidence and ensure it's repeatable in objective controlled environments. If it can't be proved, or disproved, it has no place in this environment, and you don't have the beginnings of an understanding of science, so please give up your post on this board, as you have no right to be here".
Private school systems actually have to live up to certain standards set forth for accredidation. That is why they still teach science as science, many certainly do inject creationism as well.
The reason people think religious nuts would take over is stemmed from history when religious nuts took over. Take a look at the history of the education system and you will surely understand why people feel this way. It happened before, remove government and there is nothing stopping it from happening again.
Computer science and engineering are not science. Your ramblings about biology are incoherent. And then you just discount the take on physics.
Remember, Congress has the power of the purse. How do you think funding of the National Science Foundation will work with nuts like this on the Science Committee?
If you are religious, you should be prohibited from serving in public office. Further, you should have a guardian assigned to look after your affairs, since obviously you are very weak intellectually.
Probably bring about end of war, famine, disease, poverty, and all evil in the world, if we could just keep the religious from having influence.
I know lots of athiests who are religious about their beliefs (or lack of beliefs, depending on how you want to slice it). In fact I get preached to more by athiests than by any other groups, which is kind of annoying as i'm an athiest anyway and object to being told what to believe (or not believe) by anyone.
I know plenty of Christians who are quite happy to take the creationist view put forward by the bible with a grain of salt (and some who consider it blasphemy to preach creationism when the universe around them was clearly not created that way).
Maybe just keep insane people out of public office? Or at least those where their insanity and delusion will prevent them from doing the job they were hired for.
Well, mankind has steered evolution of a lot of living things. Think of all the different kind of dogs, both the Great Dane and Yorkshire terrier descend from wolves. OK, the breeders provided environmental pressure so you could argue that it is unnatural selection, but the mechanism is proven. Same thing goes for cattle, poultry, roses, wheat,...
The problem here is that we allow people like that at all to dictate policy that the government has no business of being in. If you don't allow government to set policy on things it has no business being involved in, this would be a non-story.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
But how would this education work? At some point you're going to tend towards a school again, ie put several students in with one teacher (to make it economically viable) and rotate the (many) students around a smaller number of specialised teachers. And somebody will have to run this, put it in a building with all the admin that is required of running a public building with hundreds of people in it. And then when your students emerge, they will want to have been through a balanced syllabus, which will have to be assessed somehow in a way that is recognised nationwide, so that will have to be standardised somehow, all of which sounds very much like something that a government should be doing.
Not to say that's a perfect system, but handwavingly pronouncing that the current way is bad (with no specifics other than vague fear-driven generalisations), and that anyone could do it better themselves doesn't convince me.
String theory?
Yeah, just look how well it worked for North Korea!
In this particular case making a difference means ensuring that kids get a better education now than in the past, you know, improving the system. A system doesn't have to be perfect to be a good thing, as it evolves you move towards better and better education which then elevates society as educated people become more productive and advance the country further.
Freedom is not a purpose, it is a state of being. You are not free to make your choices if you are too uneducated to know what your choices are. So I would argue this removes freedom for people to pursue their own happiness. This is based on the assumption that without enforcable standards that the number of people educated will decline significantly.
If this fellow and those who share his views are sincere, then they ought return all those things which Science hath given them. That means they don't even get to live the life of the Amish, because they still use simple machines like pulleys and gears and those could clearly not exist without Science.
Let them return their cars, their modern fabrics, their TVs and computers and cell phones. Let them not travel upon paved roads, for those are marvels of modern Science and engineering. Let them have nothing save that which was constructed by hand using tools of no greater sophistication than bronze implements. Let them herd sheep and goats and spin wool and till the soil and walk everywhere they need to go, communicating by speech and clay tablets.
If they do all those things, then it's fine by me if they serve in Congress and make decisions about matters of Science.
But if they don't, then they can GTFO and take their brain damage with them.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
I disagree. I don't think any religious affiliation should bar someone from public office. However, I do think using said office to push agenda for said religious affiliation should be illegal. Lets keep any and all matters of church and state separate, please. If you want your kids learning about God in Heaven, have them attend a private school. There are many religions practiced in the United States. Attempting to push only one of them as the One True Answer and as such having it taught to all students is unacceptable and a good reason why things like evolution and the big bang theory should remain as a religion-independent theory. Theists must resist the urge to push their religion on other people, especially through the government.
I am Christian. I believe in God. I do not believe in taking my beliefs and forcing everyone to view them.
Last I checked kids that go to school still see their parents only a daily basis. Parents are free influence their children all they like, that's why home schooling is allowed. There are no limitations, only minimum standards which I can't fathom how that would be a bad thing. School has a lot of purposes, everything from teaching specific subjects, to social skills.
Fortunately, people that control public school districts have to answer to a lot of people including the local community, this is why you have a local school board and supervisory roles that ensure individual schools maintain minimum standards. This means that local people get a say in how their kids are educated and federal standards ensure that they will be competitive with their peers from other regions.
What's missing? Not enough opportunity for graft? Not enough administrative overhead? No way to use politics to divide people? No union dues and slush funds? No way to censor "bad" ideas? No way to indoctrinate people into your belief system? No way to force bullies and their victims together? No one to tell the parents they're teaching their children wrong? No way for non-teachers to skim money out of the "system"? No one to fill out forms and do compliance paperwork?
...And no one to tell you your oncologist got his medical degree from Dr. Woo's School of Homeopathic Medicine.
You can't be bigoted against an idea.
All ideas and concepts are fair game for critique. The ones that fail are discarded.
If the holders of an idea declare that idea off-limits for critique, their idea automatically loses.
This space available.
Standards are well accepted on the Internet...
Tell me sir, what flavors of html and css your browser support? Which versions it supporys correctly? What addations to those standards ithas made for its own use?
Silence is a state of mime.
In fact I get preached to more by athiests than by any other groups
It's like a friend of mine once told me: "Atheists are very boring. All they talk about is God, God, God..."
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
Porn? You should have started with porn. If it's a war they want, then it's a war they'll get!
You can't handle the truth.
Have you met most Americans?
Anything left of Fascism is considered communism. And CERTAINLY any country with socialized medicine would not be welcomed with open arms :)
Although, I would like to think that Tim Horton's would be welcomed. Krispy Kreme and Dunkin Donuts, you've been put on notice.
Yes, there are standards that are more accepted than others. IPv4 and IPv6 are pretty well accepted standards though, same with FTP, TFTP. telnet, ssh, ntp, and a myriad of other standards out there. Standards are necessary to ensure minimum levels of compatibility, so while my browser may not support every standard it definitely supports the majority of scenarios much like our education standards are supposed to do for us. This means that a student from Kansas can work with a student from California or Poland as they all have a minimum base education to work from.
He can say whatever he likes because he's running unopposed. The people of his district just have to take it, or write in the name of somebody who's not certifiably insane.
Are they elected? Or just randomly assigned?
Elected, and saying whatever he thinks will get him re-elected.
Interesting article in the current Scientific American about how a lot of successful businessmen and politicians have a lot in common with psychopaths. Biggest difference is that they channel their aggressions into something other than eating your brain with a spoon.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I think it would be a better idea if you had to pass some basic science (or whatever) test before you were able to chair a committee on science (or whatever).
But then I remember that congressmen are retarded people who got through life by pandering to the highest bidder
This clown is supposedly a Medical Doctor. So he had to at least be exposed to the some reasonably advanced concepts and memorize them. You've got to be pretty weird to go through all of that and denounce it as essentially heresy.
From his bio on his web site:
Representative Paul C. Broun, Jr. was elected in July of 2007 to serve the Tenth District of Georgia. Since his arrival in Congress, he has been appointed to the House Homeland Security Committee, the House Committee on Natural Resources, and currently serves as Chairman of the Investigations and Oversight Subcommittee for the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee. Dr. Broun grew up in Athens, Georgia where he attended Athens High School and graduated from the University of Georgia in 1967 with a B.S. in Chemistry. In 1971, he received his Medical Doctor degree from the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta. An internship at Good Samaritan Hospital in Portland, Oregon and a residency at University Hospital in Birmingham, Alabama followed.
He's probably just pandering to the crowd, but what a friggin slimeball.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The country with more firepower than the rest of the world combined is governed by an apocalyptic cult. Does that strike anyone else as scary?
A bottle of one liter of maple syrup has been sent to you, good sir.
Since you have failed even to attempt some figures to back up your blanket assertions, let's try:
- Rough cost of a teacher... say $40,000.
- Median income for USA household $50,000.
So... out of possibility for the vast majority of households, ie all those below the median and a good number around and above the median. Only the top 20% of households earn more than $88,000, which is the sort of figure you'd need to hire someone to teach your precious darlings and deal with every other bill.
This "huge inefficient system" cannot possibly be anywhere near as much as homeschooling, since the cost of homeschooling is far more expensive than the majority of household's income. (Also, common sense, even with all those "unrequired" people, there are still far more students than staff)
Given that the country was founded on then 500 year old whig ideas you'd think that a political process that'd be based on who prayed the loudest would be utterly rejected one would think that people like him would be utterly rejected as being fit for serving on governmental duties.
...and on the tenth day He created dinosaurs which were a bit crap so fuck them.
In plaing English that would translate to "Stop voting for idiots.".
If you ask types like him what family values are all about you'd be subjected to shameful stammer and be drenched in dribble.
20 minutes into the future
It's entirely possible to have a well developed sense of the divine (without knowing exactly what it is and understanding that it may be entirely neurological) and be entirely free of Christianity, Islam, or any other fan club affiliation that requires an unproven belief in invisible friends, holy war, talking snakes, ritual blood drinking and/or body eating or additional taxation in the form of tithing.
Yes, but LSD is illegal.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I bet this psycho wouldn't agree with the equally crazy statement:
--
make install -not war
You don't understand that "small enough that theocratic politicians don't matter" is no different from "nonexistent".
--
make install -not war
To understand his phrase about "straight from hell" one must understand his theological viewpoint.
Unless he was the sole member on the committee, I don't see any of what he said as problematic. Dissent is healthy. This is a democracy, and he as well as anyone else has the ability to speak their mind.
As a scientist myself, I don't take offense at his viewpoint, though his choice of phrasing is very politically incorrect.
No he doesn't get the economies of scale. He was taught at home.
He's lying. The earth is only 6000 years old. He must have an ulterior pro-science reason for spreading the belief that the earth is 9000 years old.
I can't speak for sure but I'd bet there wont be many Congresscritters from either party in Heaven. Of course anyone can be forgiven, but then, they have to confess and repent.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between the "two" parties.
Except, you know, when it comes to issues like health care, reproductive rights, or Social Security.
Anyone who says there's no difference between the two parties is either (1) totally uninformed, (2) obsessed with fringe issues and apathetic about everything that the rest of us care about, or (3) trying to convince you to stay out of the election so their vote will count more.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
No, we can improve the system. But your anarchist system where only the richest get education and the opportunities it opens failed for centuries, millennia, to serve anyone but the rich. And it didn't serve them that well either, compared to how well they're served now.
Your arguments are all simply that since our public education system has problems, we should delete it entirely - in favor of a intolerable disaster proven worse for centuries. It's obvious why you hate school: yours failed to teach you to think.
--
make install -not war
In plaing (sic) English that would translate to "Stop voting for idiots.".
But that's all that is on the ballot!
The speed of time is one second per second.
Yes indeed... a short-lived experiment at a democratic republic that (a) never managed to even come close to adhering to its own constitutional authorizations, veering further and further from them by the day, and (b) is currently only able to operate courtesy of loans from other countries, and (c) is now possessed of an entirely corrupt political and legal framework, starting at the bottom (legislation) and working right up into all the various human factors (law enforcement, judges, lawyers, politicians and the sundry minions of all the foregoing.)
I agree: Being religious doesn't make you a useless piece of shit. Just a critical-thinking challenged human being. Neither uncommon or particularly reprehensible. But people being religious does appear to have had a great influence on making our government a useless piece of shit. I know, correlation is no guarantee of causation, but on the other hand, we rarely find massive, consistent and repeatable effect without significant correlation, do we now?
I agree with you 100% that there are plenty of faithful yet thoughtful and responsible people.
But at the same time: among people who are morons, there are few worse than fundamentalist fucking morons.
Yawn.....
Your belief in a sky magician has zero affect on me.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
to the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge64kMFoQEo
in case you're like me wondering what species of slime mold a "Paul Broun" is,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broun#Controversies
unfortunately i have not found a web page to explain how this mouth-breathing brain-dead no-talent ass-clown continues to cash a government paycheck. I've been to Atlanta, and its people are quite intelligent, unfortunately theyre outnumbered by the hicks in the sticks straddling mobility scooters and sucking down big macs as usual.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I'm just saying what I was taught 16 years ago.
Hell, even Einstein said he believed in a God who created the universe. His work in the unified theory was an attempt to understand that creator's mind.
Uh, no. In a March 24, 1954 letter, he [Einstein] is quoted as writing, "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." In another letter, Einstein wrote the word God was "nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." I would wager that the vast majority of scientists hold the same opinion. They may have been raised in a religious environment, and might even maintain some traditions of those environs. But actually believe it? I don't think so.
Despite loudmouth morons like this, there are plenty of religious people capable of managing their daily lives and even participating usefully in science.
And each and every one of them who doesn't stand up and put these extremist assholes in their place is guilty of collaboration.
What? America judges muslims the same way.
I would have a lot more respect for religion and religious people if you would stop allowing these fuckers to abuse your religion. As long as you do, I must assume that you don't think him all that bad. Not bad enough to get your asses up, at least.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
You have strange friends. Imaginary?
What the atheists I listen to are talking about most often is how other people try to control their life. In my country, for example, the churches are still receiving a few billion bucks every year in tax money. Not directly, of course, but through a vast network of indirect channels.
Then there's all these bullshit laws they want to force on us. Right now, there's a discussion in Europe about new blasphemy laws. Blasphemy laws! You'd think the middle ages are past.
In america, religious service is forced again and again on soldiers, school children and other people who are in power-inequality positions.
The list goes on. God only enters the picture as the bullshit reason these control freaks give for their actions, but we have long ago realized that it's the reason for the dumb. The reason for the smart has always been power.
You can have as many imaginary friends as you want. But I and others will continue "preaching" to you every time you or someone like you tries to control my actions or restrict my freedoms because of something that you think one of your imaginary friends wants.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Making religion a subject of widespread mockery will be part of the solution, whether you like it or not.
Nope, because that alienates non-crazy religious individuals, who end up despising both the crazy ones as well as rationalists. Americans have this bad habit of thinking the world is like their country, when in fact if you search around the globe you'll find USA is, nowadays at least, the place from where the craziest religions and religion-branches come from. Mormonism, channeling, UFO cults, Scientology, Creationism, New Age fluff -- all of them genuine made-in-USA.
Do this: search around. You won't find a single country other than the USA where creationists have either the political power or the infiltration within Christian branches as they do over there. And there where these idiotic things seem to be gaining a foothold, such as that case with the South Korean textbooks, you'll find behind their proponents the backing of some US-based fringe group, never a native development.
This, incidentally, is why the also US-born form of aggressive atheistic rhetorics I read falls flat anywhere else where it attempts to establish itself. The effect doesn't resonate because the attack target simply isn't there.
Thus, the more you generalize, the less effective you become. Remember the adage: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Either you apply it, or they will. Go around punching who has nothing to do with the issue and, instead of hurting your real target, you'll end up hurting yourself and your own cause.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
The problem is that Creationism is a discredited theory: it fails to match so much observed evidence, and fails to predict so many things we've found, that there's no longer any serious possibility that it might be correct. As a scientific theory, it should be chucked out into the dumpster to join Ptolomey's theory of celestial mechanics, phlogiston and a host of other discredited theories. It doesn't even have saving grace of eg. Newtonian mechanics: known to be incorrect, but a sufficiently close approximation for everyday use and much simpler to deal with than the more accurate theories.
I actually read the Bible front to back and saw what kind of a psycho asshole your god really is. If it truly exists, (doubtful) it has no right to judge anyone. Your god embodies malice to a degree that no human could ever hope to reach. Biblegod is clearly the product of a harsh, primitive, barbaric culture and it definitely shows.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
The US is a representative plutocracy.
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
Nope, because that alienates non-crazy religious individuals, who end up despising both the crazy ones as well as rationalists.
If that were true, we'd all be Scientologists or Moonies. I believe (but can't immediately prove) that the main reason why people remain superstitious in an age of scientific enlightenment is because of superstition's longstanding social value. As a result, I also believe that making fun of people's superstitions is a very good way to drive those superstitions underground and lessen their influence on secular society. Laughter is certainly a better offensive weapon than violence, right?
Americans have this bad habit of thinking the world is like their country,
As an American citizen and voter, I'm not the least bit concerned with countries other than the US. I'm not responsible for the government in those countries. They can do what they want. However, that being said....
Do this: search around. You won't find a single country other than the USA where creationists have either the political power or the infiltration within Christian branches as they do over there
OK, I "searched around." The evidence I've found suggests that the influence of religion on secular education is not a concern limited to either the USA or Christianity. Did you have a point you'd like to make with respect to these findings? Do you believe that it's healthy for civilization to see these beliefs growing in influence over the course of the 21st century, rather than diminishing as any sane person would have expected?
If you don't believe that, then chances are, we agree more than we disagree.
My take is that he fully understands evolution and rejects it as a sophisticated ploy by Satan to trick us. I've met someone with this exact philosophy before and there was no reasoning with them on it. He too was an otherwise extremely intelligent person. Folks of that ilk have an impenetrable fall-back position from 'Satan did it' - it must be that God is testing us. I quickly realized that the only winning move was not to play.
Seems relevant somehow to also mention the really smart and rather wealthy guy who once told me that environmentalism was a waste of time because Jesus was going to come before things fall apart. How I wish I was making that up.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
When it comes to public office, what we need to guard against is not the religious, or atheists, or whatever other philosophy someone might follow. What we need to guard against are people who are utterly unwilling and incapable of living in a pluralistic society. People who are dogmatic whether from fear, lacking all empathy, lacking the ability to imagine themselves in someone else's shoes, and/or an aggrandized persecution complex and self-righteousness. Putting this type of person in a position of power is incompatible with a peaceful, pluralistic, free, and democratic society.
Doesn't matter. If Biblegod is so far "above us", then its morals should be a superior version of what civilized people know to be right/wrong. However, that is not the case. Rather, it is quite the opposite: a rational purpose would condemn god's atrocious behavior.
Good resources for people to read:
http://www.evilbible.com/
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
The Big Bang theory is something that arises from the study of physics. Saying it's "evil" says that the fundamentals of theoretical physics are evil.
I assume the thought process goes something like this:
First, the initial assumption: the Bible tells us that the Earth is young (6k years, 9k years, even 50k years, it doesn't make much difference for Evolution or Big Bang)
Once you take that as true, the rest falls into place fairly logically. Since you *know* the Earth is young, there *can't* be evidence contrary to this. This means anyone who observes anything else is at best mistaken. One or two people could conceivably make an innocent mistake like that. Thousands of people though? It could only be a conspiracy. And who would be the source of this conspiracy? Satan, obviously. Therefore, Evolution and the Big Bang Theory are "Lies straight from the pit of hell."
Of course, the starting point is a crock of shit, but if you take it as a given, the rest is actually logical.
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
To think Canada's biggest problem recently was someone stole our strategic reserve of maple syrup, it puts things in perspective. Thank the mounties we got it back!
Actually, this makes me wonder if he's developing a disorder of some sort. Perhaps a psychiatric condition, or perhaps a brain tumor that is altering his personality and beliefs. Granted, being a physician doesn't automatically make someone well-versed in science... but consider that he's 66 years old. That's not exactly "old" by today's standards, but not so young that those concerns would be invalid. I suppose we could figure it out by looking at his track record and history of statements.
You might simply not see it because you aren't looking for it...
To someone whose only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail. If you are consciously seeking evidence of God in nature chances are you are going to convince yourself you've found it.
Christianity seems to center around the idea of who's going to heaven and who's going to hell, but that's not the case with Judaism. (I can't speak for Islam.) It's true that "the wrath of God" is detailed in the Jewish texts, but I've never heard it mentioned as a means to frighten people. If you're Jewish, the interpretation is one of history; that God made a contract with the Jewish people, then did these things to save them from enslavement. Sure, the Jewish people screw up and incur some of God's wrath, but it's nothing like suffering in hell for all eternity. The interpretation I learned was that God's feats represented God fulfilling His part of the contract, and now it's our turn to fulfill our part. There's no threat implied in any of that, it's just stated to show that something was done for you (through your ancestors), and now you have a responsibility to uphold.
Another big difference between Judaism and Christianity is in personal responsibility, and the purpose of life. Christianity seems to dictate that we're all powerless vessels floating on a sea dominated by currents of good and evil. Satan lures you one way, but you need to believe to be saved and reach heaven. The purpose of life is simply to find that belief and stick with it, avoiding the temptations of Satan. By comparison, Judaism focuses on more "practical" things. According to some texts, God left Earth to Man; that is, we're tasked with turning Earth into a paradise. Satan exists in Judaism, but he isn't a source of evil. Rather, the belief is that when you die, your soul goes before a "spiritual court," where Satan is the prosecutor who points out all of the evils that you committed. Basically, while Christianity views evil as some external force, Judaism recognizes that evil can come from within, and claims that everyone should take responsibility for it themselves.
Honestly, it all sounds pretty silly if interpreted in a literal manner. Being Jewish (although "spiritual but not religious") I am obviously biased, but one of the things that I really appreciate about Judaism is that it seems designed to be a guideline to living and finding meaning in life. The focus is on being a better person, improving the world around you, appreciating and enjoying your life. If you can do all of that without reading the Bible or praying to God, wonderful! Formal religion may not recognize you for it, but there's a line in the Bible which claims that you would be considered Jewish simply for that. This is one reason (among others) why you don't see Jews going around trying to convert people. Not pushing the beliefs on people, I might add, is another appealing factor to the Jewish belief set.
TL;DR: What you say accurately describes most forms of Christianity, but there's at least one religion (Judaism) that doesn't quite fit it. I don't think anyone needs religion, but please keep an open mind and don't condemn all religious beliefs just because Christianity can get a bit nuts.
many science projects have to be backed by the government because they are huge expensive endeavours with no business case
think about what will not be or was not, because some assclown in washington dc didn't back it
here's one example, i'm sure there's 10,000 more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider
i know you are talking about policy decisions, like stem cell research. but now you are asking government to not be regulating things that, i'm sorry to say government has every right and need to regulate. if you have to ask why then we veer off in into intellectual charity land and so i have nothing more to say
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I wish that more people would realize that the Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the exact same God/Allah/Yahweh (The God of Abraham) they just differ in the implementation. It seems that the Christians in the US are ignorant of this fact and treat Allah as something other than God.
that's exactly right
the kind of people who believe fervently in heaven are the kind of low iq and obsessively controlling type of person it would be hell to spend eternity with
irony
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
If you want a McJob at minimum wage, expect to be fingerprinted, probed and studied. You will take tests, have your references checked and be watched constantly while on the clock and off. Your FeceBook and other activities will be scrutinized, your credit checked and you better not pick your nose where a street camera can spot you.
If you want a job in Congress, all you need is a big mouth and enthusiastic handshake. Ethics, intelligence, education not required. You will be guided; told what to say, what to do, when to do it by the best handlers that money can buy. Make a mistake and they will cover for you. Usually.
...omphaloskepsis often...
He is refused medical aid cuz he thinks science is shit
The universe existing is evidence that it was put here by somebody too.
This is exactly the kind of logic that I was referring to. Unknown != evidence of god. The fact that the only explanation you can think of is "god did it" doesn't mean that that's the answer. That's just an argument from ignorance.
The same cannot necessarily be said for God, so his mere existence does not necessitate a creation.
Special pleading. If the universe can't be ageless, then why can that apply to god?
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
So you think the purpose of a school is to limit parents' influence on their children. I think the purpose of a school should be learning and the parents should be free to decide more-or-less everything because they're rightfully free citizens, not government subjects.
But the children are members of society and not slaves to their parents to be shaped to their will.
As a parent myself, I WANT society to step in and bitch-slap me hard if I start acting against her best interests. Then if I don't change my ways, I want society to step in and take her away from me.
The tricky part is to determine what is her "best interests". This is something society needs to get together and agree on as a whole.
Note that I don't advocate children becoming mindless drones following the rules of society and never thinking outside the box. That would be a terrible state of affairs. No, I rather advocate that children grow up to understand their society and are capable of living within it without being totally fucked when they are forced to interact with it. They can disagree with it if they so choose (perhaps even because the parent has influenced them in that direction), however they'd better be ready to handle society's reaction.
I guess the main point is that from my point of view, my daughter is an individual person and like any person, has to interact in different circles of life. One is that of her parents (my wife and me); and another is of the city of Hannover, Germany; yet another is the subcontinent of Europe; and yet another is the planet Earth. Each of these circles is a society of a kind and it behooves us all to understand the societies we are in and be capable of interacting with them in the best possible way. Children that do not pass through a formal school system, instead being taught purely at home by their parents or a hired teacher, are usually unable to deal with several of the larger circles that exist and often have large gaps in their knowledge due both to a lack of interaction with others that have opposing viewpoints and a lack of simply being told certain things that the kids who do go to school get taught.
I'm against schools indoctrinating viewpoints; but I'm very much for them explaining viewpoints. I feel very lucky to have attended school in New Zealand, where the system, while not perfect, is a far sight better at this than many other countries I've seen.
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
I'm sure that idiotic statement qualifies for Godwin status. Yes Pol Pot murdering millions is exactly the same as ensuring that children learn to read and write. You libertarians will never ever convince anyone because you are such dicks. Anyone sick and can't get healthcare. Let's quote Thomas Jefferson at them, that'll make them feel better. Unemployed and can't find a job. Denounce them as lazy and let them starve, even if they just need a little support to get back into the workplace. Our governments are not perfect but they used to be a lot worse as even a basic examination of history will show you.
Computer science and engineering are not science.
While I agree with you that the GP is an idiot; I do feel like I should point out that computer science most certainly is a science (assuming you consider practically applicable mathematics to be science). General "computing" or whatever it is that's taught in most schools is most certainly not a science, but computer science is.
Remember: "Computer science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes".
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
"Rawr roar rar." Said Jesus, trying to blend in.
"Blessed are the huge scaley monsters, for they shall surely inherit the earth."
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
In historical terms it's so close that Chaplin was given a very hard time by the Republicans for being an anti-fascist.
Some idiots even tried to call such a millionaire capitalist a communist - and other idiot believed them.
Of course things have moved on A LOT but some core beliefs remain the same.
Yeah. Fringe issues like the ever-expanding national security state, unilateral power grabs by the executive, foreign wars (including the never-ending "war on terrorism"), the stupid, destructive "war on drugs" with its related prison-industrial complex, pervasive government secrecy and an unofficial war on whistleblowers....
You are the one being confused. There is no government in communism and all questions are meant to be decided by grassroots democracy.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
If you are religious, you should be prohibited from serving in public office. Further, you should have a guardian assigned to look after your affairs
Not sure what your definition of totalitarianism is but this pretty much fits mine.
And if you call blind belief if communism a religion, then blind belief in that all the suffering in the world is caused by faith is also one.
The US got where it is despite every [...] (well, nearly all) being religious, in some degree or another.
Because (up until recently) they were making a point of keeping religion separate from state affairs.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
No, you are wrong. They all pretended to be religious because they are smart and knew that was the only way to power.
I live in Georgia. When people ask me about religion, I explain that I am a man of deep faith. That is true, but I do not believe there is some all-knowing, imaginary entity guiding everything, everywhere. That's for physics.
My faith is a little more grounded. When I'm driving a vehicle on the roads and highways, I have tremendous faith in other humans that they won't cross into my lane or cross over that double yellow line and kill me, my wife, my kids. THAT is faith. Sometimes other humans fail me. About 2 months ago, a woman tried to cross 5 lanes of traffic to make a left onto a freeway entrance. The fact that my vehicle was in the way didn't matter to her. I avoided being hit, but spun out 3.5 times. During the spin and stopping, I didn't hit anything else. No other cars, not that crazy bitch and not the side of the road. It was really amazing. It was a beautiful, sunning day around 3pm. Thanks to physics and the people who designed both the vehicle and tires, I was saved from harm. The woman stopped after I pulled over to the side of the road. My car was facing oncoming traffic at this point. We both got out. She started appologizing for her actions. I grabbed her and gave her a huge bear-hug. She was an Asian womain ... perhaps 40 yrs old. I'm a big white man a little older. She wanted to exchange information, since there might be damage, but nothing was harmed. I gave her another bear hug, and left. There were 50 witnesses - all sitting in two left turn lanes who saw the entire thing. It never crossed my mind to hit her even though she just tried to kill me. No pains ever happened, thanks to physics and good engineering.
My wife and I agree. We teach our kids the same things. "God" or "god" are for weak people with weak minds, but we don't want to upset them, so we play along. All your friends are weak. Their parents are weak. Almost everyone else is weak minded because they believe in imaginary forces that do not exist. Look at Xmas, Halloween, Easter ... the entire world claims to believe. 10% are like us and just play along.
Why do we play along?
* Jobs; If daddy told his boss that he didn't believe, he would be passed over for raises and promotions.
* Family; parts of our family are weak, like grandma and most of your aunts and uncles.
* Avoid Harrassment from religious groups for our lack of beliefs.
Basically, religious people are bigots and perform extreme discrimination, so we must act like there is some god.
It is the most important secret our kids have. Never tell anyone. It isn't safe. Mommy and Daddy have a few friends that believe like we do, but most do not.
All religions are stupid wastes of effort. The only good reason to have a religion is for the tax free aspects. Look throughout history and there are thousands of examples of religions doing terrible things to people and the world. Terrible things.
If this is legitimate devil science, the universe has ways of shutting the whole thing down ;-)
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
...is how embryology can be a lie. There's obviously ethical disagreement on things like abortion and embryonic stem cell research, but neither of those is embryology.
(4) not american, and wondering when will they start voting for 3rd, 4th and more parties
erasing contravenes infallibility
Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created. To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual.
Whether or not people need a saviour is unrelated to how people got here. If this is an example of the mental processes of an elected representative, he should probably go back to kindergarten and start again, without the religious upbringing which has led to his derangement.
Okay, I've had it. I am a Christian myself, but this is just embarrassing. This guy is even a "young earth" creationist, which in my opinion should disqualify him from serving on any committee associated with science. If you agree, please consider writing your local news station to suggest that they report on this story. If it gets wide enough press, perhaps there will be some pressure to hand the job over to someone who actually accepts the tenets of basic science.
"God and the devil are the same thing, the devil is in the details"
Need Mercedes parts ?
He's the kind of person that gives Christianity a bad name. I am a Christian. I support Intelligent Design. But I don't deny Common Descent and I certainly don't deny the Big Bang. The Big Bang is conclusive evidence FOR a creator! You can't claim that the universe is all that exists when it's plain as day that it had a beginning. This guy is just an anti-scientist, he's not worthy of the Christian faith or of the Republican party.
The US is at fault for Muslim creationism? Crazy people from the US may be supporting Christian creationism in other countries, but do, say, the crazy Turkish Muslim creationists spring from US support?
As a political movement? Yep, it does. The methods, modus operandi and arguments are all drawn from American and, to a lesser extent, European (in turn American-influenced) authors.
By the way: Muslim fundamentalism was born in the 18th century inspired by British puritanism. That original movement weakened in England, but went on to live in US Christianity. So, both fundamentalisms are basically children of the same father.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
That's the politically correct thing to say. In actuality there is no truth to that. For example, Muslims reject the Biblical teaching that Jesus is the God who is the Creator of all things (John 1, Collosians 1, Hebrews 1, etc.) so in reality Muslims reject the God of the Bible. Likewise, Christians reject the God who is displayed in the Qur'an as it contradicts the God from the Bible. The original Qur'an actually said that Allah had three divine daughters: el-Lat, el-Uzza, and Manat. Muhammed later changed this and said he was hearing that from Satan when he thought he was hearing it from God.
Christians believe their god is the same god as the Jews, but the Jews believe their prophet was a heretic. Muslims believe their god is the same god as the Jews and the Christians, but the Jews and the Christians believe their prophet was a heretic. Bahai believe their god is the same god as the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims, but the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims believe their god is a heretic.
The first three systems have proven that they grant an evolutionary advantage to their adherents, which makes them all wise. The last one needs to be tested a little longer. All of them are flawed undersandings of the universe, which is understandable, because the universe is big and the human mind is tiny.
If you can't grant them what respect they've proven themselves to deserve, you really have nothing to offer on the subject.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
1. There's at least half-a-dozen theories about that, none of which involve some invisible man in the sky. They're still working out which ones hold up and which ones don't. We don't have much good observational data that far back, although the latest round of space-based telescopes are helping fill that in.
2. No, it's not circular. Earth is fine-tuned for life simply because we could only exist if it were, if it weren't we wouldn't be here to talk about it. I'll pull back the poker analogy: you may look at the long odds of being dealt a royal flush and think it's highly unlikely it could happen so the royal flush you're staring in the face must'be been arranged somehow, but that argument falls apart when you remember that there were several million hands dealt and any that weren't royal flushes weren't given to you. We exist on a planet fine-tuned for life not because something fine-tuned it, but because the condition dice were rolled trillions of times, coming up with different conditions each time, and we'd only evolve on the handful that matched Earth's conditions. Had the conditions been different but still feasible for life to exist, we'd've evolved differently and would live in an environment similarly fine-tuned for the way we turned out. Earth isn't fine-tuned for life, the conditions that exist on Earth fine-tuned life to fit them.
3. Yes, indeed they were. And yet when those conditions are replicated, life does in fact evolve. And no, they didn't start with the end result. They started with a chemical brew matching what's known to have existed on early Earth and went from there. And no, as I said the earliest forms of life weren't cellular. Cells are actually a fair ways up the evolutionary ladder. As I said, scientists had already filled in the path from bare packets of DNA on up to full cellular organisms, and encountered a lot of weirdness along the way. The last bit to be filled in was that first step, from a brew of methane, ammonia, water and hydrogen to small packets of DNA. The evolution of prokaryotes from that is interesting, but wasn't nearly as much of a challenge as making the jump from a chemical soup to complex organic molecules.
I think your basic problem is that you're starting with a false premise: that natural selection can't create anything new. The problem is that that assumption's been shown to be false time and time again. We already know about mutation and how DNA can be changed, and how those changes result in new genetic traits that didn't exist before. You're stating something must be false that's been observed to be true many many times. Which is why I dismiss most Creationists: it simply isn't possible to discuss the matter with someone who rejects observed reality. Things don't cease to be true just because you find them inconvenient or uncomfortable.
Interestingly, you could be describing life under the Taliban or in Saudi Arabia, just with a few tweaks because it's a Christian theocracy rather than an Islamist one.
With all the prattling about how free America is, I know that I'd rather live in the UK where you don't have to pretend to be religious ever.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Why am I so sure? Because it's happened before.
But remove the religious foundation and not only will the current generation of fuckers come crashing down, but there will be no place for the next one, either.
The trouble with this idea is that if you remove the religious foundation then the current generation of fuckers will come crashing down, sure, but the next generation will FIND a place. It doesn't have to be religion. It can be anything. The masses are stupid and the corrupt, power-hungry assholes will always find a way to take advantage of them. You assume that getting rid of religion will get rid of the corruption. All it will do is make those who want the power go a different route to get there. The classic example is Stalin.