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NetFlix Caught Stealing DivX Subtitles From Finnish Pirates
An anonymous reader writes with word that NetFlix recently opened its streaming service in Finland and was promptly caught stealing movie subtitles from a local DivX community site. How were they caught? NetFlix failed to remove references to the pirate site in the subtitles.
telling us how piracy is hurting their business and costing them money!
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Maybe they were taking hints from Ubisoft: http://megagames.com/news/ubisoft-steals-reloaded-crack-fix-its-own-game
"Online TV giant Netflix was closed captions unauthorized use of his pants down..."
I predict "unauthorized use of his pants down" to be the new "not want".
Makes total sense!
AccountKiller
Online TV giant Netflix was closed captions unauthorized use of his pants down, when the Finnish users ...
And the people who wrote the subtitles stole them from the movie script whose rights Netflix licences. I fail to see what's the problem here, maybe someone who speaks Finnish can explain.
It has been shown that Netflix also used portuguese community generated subtitle files for its Brazilian site. Netflix used it with errors and all. I don't think that its illegal, technically... but IANAL.
Here is the source [http://blog.lancamentosnetflix.com.br/2012/09/netflix-baixando-legendas-da-internet.html] :(
Sorry, i don't know how to create the fancy links in the comment.
I mean I am sure the CEO of netflix did not give an order "hey, get pirated subtitles - I am sure they are professional quality and won't contain profanities etc that could get us in trouble".
So, somewhere in the chain of passing out the requirement for, I assume, low cost translation, some "bright mind" had this idea. It is very likely that even the actual translator paid to do the work thought he/she might save some time!
But in general, it would be a great thing for someone like NetFlix to hire a well known sub-release group for their translations, but I really don't see that happening...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Stealing? How? Were the pirates deprived of the subtitles? The Slashtard hypocritical use of "stealing" then whining when the "MAFIAA" uses it the same way is hilarious.
Every summary contains an obvious typo, formatting error or similar glitch to encourage people to post and to increase ad traffic. Try putting an oblivious mistake into one of your posts and see how long it takes for people to respond to that rather than your original point...
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
The people that should have made money from writing those subtitles and that probably have done so for Finnish Television or Cinema companies, have not been paid, nor has their product been used. That means that these people are deprived of royalties in favour of illegally obtained translations that have violated the copyright of the show in question.
Either that, or the whole model doesn't make sense, take your pick.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
First sentence of original article translated by Google from Finnish into English ...
"Online TV giant Netflix was closed captions unauthorized use of his pants down, when the Finnish users began to use the service on Thursday."
Unauthorized use of his pants down?
This is an excellent example of capitalism at work: they went with the lowest-cost supplier!
Regardless, it's not stealing because the DivX community still have them.
-Dave
They watch Arrrr-rated movies
rewriting history since 2109
The pirates are stealing from them (from the whole industry), so what's wrong with stealing a little from pirates?
Well, apart from the fact that it's not stealing, it's unlicensed copying, nothing.
I guess these pirates can see how it feels now.
Probably: great; I would be laughing like hell if I had done this and Netflix took my subtitles.
However, you are completely missing the point here. There are some of us who think it's okay to "pirate" and do so. There are others, like myself, that feel that unlicensed copying should be allowed in many more circumstances but don't feel like breaking the law. Until now there's been a third group which is benefitting from the laws, but was following them. Finally there's been group, such as congressmen's children, which are breaking the law because they can get away with it.
What we are seeing now is that in fact, there's no third group. The RIAA "pirates" music for their ads. The big media distribution firms demand adverts on other people's YouTube videos because of some real or false positive fair rights use of their material. The media distribution companies, like Netflix, are completely happy to "steal" material from anywhere they feel like. These people do things that, if you did them, would end you up in jail or paying hundreds of thousands of dollars of fines. They pay nothing and rarely even apologise.
This is all about the Amercan corporate royalty and their "Droit de Seigneur" with your ideas, privacy and creations. This is not news because the copying is immoral; it is news because, it's yet another slip of the front and makes it 100% clear that you too are plebs and the only thing wrong is letting you know it.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Fn idiot. Why the hell do you end with an elipse???
rewriting history since 2109
For the n-th time, repeat after me: copying != stealing. The Finnish group still has access to its subtitles, they were merely copied, not moved/stolen. If we complain that the MAFIAA uses wrong terms in its campaign against free file sharing, so we should also refrain from using the same flawed terminology.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
thought it said subtitties
rewriting history since 2109
People still use DivX?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Aren't the subtitles openly available to anyone?
A few comments from someone who lives in Finland.
First, Netflix reacted by posting a note saying it was sorry for the trouble (the exact wording changed a time or two). It has also removed those programs where the DivX Finland subtitles were used. Or said that they will do so, I am not a subscriber, so I am not able to check.
The representative of DivX Finland is just feeling amused, although he did say "well they could've asked for permission..." (this from TFA) - there is no outrage there.
Apparently Netflix buys their subtitles from Broadcast Text International, who in turn buys them from a multitude of sources, including a number of freelancers. Probably one of those sub-contractors just got them from the easiest location.
According to a blog post (in Finnish) from the website av-kaantajat.fi (video subtitler's site), Netflix is getting their subtitles with super-tight schedules and expecting to get 1,5h worth of subtitled programs per day, whereas to do this properly it would usually take a week.
From the same blog post, in an interview with the Netflix subtitling chief Neil Hunt, he said outright that he's not interested in quality. So apparently the subtitling for them is just a feature checkbox that needs to be ticked off, with minimum cost and without other considerations.
Now for some background. At the same time as this has happend, the major Finnish TV media house MTV3 has recently in September outsourced all of it subtitling and translations to the same Broadcast Text International. MTV3 used to employ more than a hundred translators in-house. The difference is that BTI is offering to pay freelance translators to what amounts to less than a third of the income from a monthly salary.
The translators have been taking quality seriously, and now with these changes the quality is expected to go down a lot. While this saves money for the media companies, there is an argument that there are subtle effects on the population. For example, many Finnish children and youths start to learn to read from subtitles, and some also start to learn the English language from English programs with Finnish subtitles. Another point was that poor subtitling may make the whole movie worse, without the viewer realising that the source of poor dialogue is not in the movie itself, but just in the translations for the subtitles.
Netflix's approach to "quantity over quality" is just another move in the same direction, and as such, worrisome. It's also not a surprise that when paid very little and expected to deliver a lot, someone would resort to the easiest approach. Also, given Netflix's attitude, I'm not surprised if they don't have any quality control of their own for the subtitles which is why something like this would pass through.
It's a subtle error.
Wait until the DCMA take down from netflix comes...
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
Corporations always take shortcuts just to save a few bucks from polluting the earth instead of cleaning up after themselves to being lazy to hire extra people to add subtitles to their streaming movies. Movies in Netflix do come and go do to licensing but I always see the same movies coming back and same with tv shows. Netflix has the balls to allow the service on linux devices like Roku or mobile OS's like Chrome OS which is running the linux kernel, but yet they piss on the Linux desktop. But i have to admit that the netflix streaming is a lot better than broadcast tv and cable(unless your a sports and news fan), even hulu and crackle are still better than regular tv.
I guess we just have to "pirate" some stuff back.
He is saying they wouldn't be able to charge in the absence of such subtitles... Subtitles are required to sell movies in places that do not have English as their main language.
They wouldn't have stolen the subtiles if the pirates kept them encryped.
This might be a heaven-sent opportunity to force the copyright Nazis into court on the OTHER side. The RIAA is already involved in a lawsuit intended to make sharing one's Netflix password illegal. It seems to me that dragging Netflix into court for this instance of piracy might also force the RIAA or one of its sister groups into court, and get them involved in a nice, bloody dust-up with people who can fight back.
If nothing else, it should create some case law in Finland that might apply more widely in Europe and serve to limit the depredations of these creeps.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
You don't have to charge extra for the subtitles to benefit from them financially. For example, if someone sees that an English movie is available with subtitles in their language, they would be more likely to spend the money than if those subtitles weren't available. Careful calling people idiots.
Millions of people copy stuff and don't end up in jail or pay fines. You have to be sued for that, and nobody sued Netflix.
Dilbert RSS feed
No, the translators own copyright over the subtitles too; Netflix would need a license from them as well.
Dilbert RSS feed
The DMCA still doesn't apply in Finland.
Dilbert RSS feed
Because the DMCA has force in Finland, does it?
You obvious haven't been paying attention to the attempts to make US law apply to every one everywhere in the world
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
Hang them from the yardarm by their lutefisks.
s/lutefisks/lipeäkalaa
It was in Finland, not Norway...
Whatever you call it, lipeäkala or lutefisk is merely nasty: fish turned into mucus. No worse than mämmi, and utterly nowhere nearly as disgusting as surströmming (a win for Sweden over both Norway and Finland)...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
The copyright on a non-protected derivative work automatically reverts to the original copyright holder. In this case, if I transcribe the dialogue to a movie, the dialogue still clearly belongs to whoever owns the copyright on the movie. If they license Netflix to use the dialogue as subtitles, then Netflix are within their rights to take it from transcriptions done without license.
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
The GPL covers software, modifications, and redistributions. It is not appropriate to use in this case. The arguement is therefore moot.
If you want to argue about a license which could cover artistic content, consider the Creative Commons (CC).
http://creativecommons.org/
IANAL
I guess a "subtitle" error would have been too forced?
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
To be fair, Netflix didn't steal the subtitles - a professional Finnish translator did, before selling them to Netflix as their own work.
Finnish is not a Scandinavian language.
That's like saying companies are scum for making money off of linux.
Next time, read less comments and put more energy into comprehending those comments.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Hang them from the yardarm by their lutefisks.
Well, if I was netflix I would just say that the the credits were left there *intentionally*, i.e. they didn't want to remove the author's signature.
But the summary says this: "How were they caught? NetFlix failed to remove references to the pirate site in the subtitles", i.e. the clever thing to do but have been to just remove the credits and be done it with. What would we be saying if this was code instead?
Also, did they just take a transcript or a translation? Not the same thing.
You can't steal ideas, period, but when you start to preach absurd ideas like "intellectual property" you end becoming the hypocrite, as proven here.
And I suggest you follow your own advice and try to put aside enough of your own stupidity to at least try to comprehend what you are reading. Not everything which is given freely is given freely unconditionally.
To be fair, Netflix didn't steal the subtitles - a professional Finnish translator did, before selling them to Netflix as their own work.
Those datstardly Finns!
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
It's just an inflammatory piece of crap story. Netflix isn't in the content generation business so it isn't ironic that they're using 'pirated' (in reality non-pirated) stuff. Nothing was stolen. Then they say it's amazing they're too stupid to remove references to the site.
So what we have is a company using something freely available, leaving reference to where it comes from, not charging extra for it, and enhancing service to their end users (if you've never been to another country, subtitles aren't a big reason to not watch an english blockbuster). So, why are they scum?
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
It's not like Netflix is known for attention to detail. Most of their television series are completely screwed up, to the viewer's great frustration. If they can't even be bothered to make sure the episodes of a show are in the right order, I sure don't expect them to bother to read through the subtitles that they're lifting from questionable sources.
Interesting... This means that the pirates had added subtitles BEFORE Netflix did? Now that's impressive! (and good customer service too!)
You're right about the last part, not everything given away freely is given unconditionally. If you actually read the website, the only thing they had to do to comply with their conditions was to NOT remove the website name, which is exactly what they did.
I do take my own advice, now you should try it. I know it's anathema to /. culture to actually read what you're talking about, but maybe you should try it some time.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
As far as I can tell, the subtitles that Netflix uses for all of its Korean dramas, and for some of its anime, are also community-sourced. The twitter hashtags and IRC channel names subbed over the closing credits are kind of a give-away. I don't think this is stealing, I think it's awesome - I couldn't watch that stuff without the subtitles, and neither Netflix nor the original producers of most of that content have the time, money, or ability to do the job.
Apparently you can't read. Go there and read again until you can fully understand it. It may take a few tries, but if you try hard enough you will get there.
Go netflix. I have no problem with legitimate rights holders stealing from thieves. Spend your time working on something you have a legitimate right to (like your own, original creative works).
But, you say, translating is an original work - I won't even argue with that - copyright law is pretty clear that translations *are* a creative work that can be copyrighted; but since they were pirating the movies to begin with, I see no reason they should be granted any copyright on the translated subtitles.
Netflix hasn't said that - nor are they likely to.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
...the subtitles also explicitly prohibit the use of same for commercial purposes! Double whammy!
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
...kind of like what commercial closed captions have.
"These captions are courtesy of Turner Broadcasting".
Some Netflix users might even be grateful to the Scandinavian "pirates" in question.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The really sad thing about this is than when a big corporation distributes illegal copies and is caught, it just says "sorry, our mistake, we'll remove the problematic content", but when a person shares copies of some MP3s, it is time to go to court and get hefty fines.
- Raynet --> .
Perhaps the joke was just too subtile.
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
I just watched "The Cape" on NetFlix with English subtitles on and at the end of each episode the URL of the subbing group comes up!
"There is nothing nice about Steve Jobs and nothing evil about Bill Gates." - Chuck Peddle
This is not Netflix policy, then have thousands of employes in many countries, and to get stuff subtitles they have hired many different companies. Presumably one of those companies had an idiot working for them, who did this. And most likely that person is now fired.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Only if Finland is part of Scandinavia, which it isn't. See here and here.
Yes, you can call me pedantic if you wish, but I am proud of Finland not being Scandinavia. :-)
Netflix is trying to kidnap what the pirates have rightfully stolen.
but they aren't using the videos, just the subtitles. I don't think 'translating' counts as stealing. I also don't think anyone is buying the movies for the subtitles, they buy the movies for the movies.
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
Here's a story TorrentFreak run on this (in English)
As a side note, I was watching Star Trek III on Netflix last night and noticed they had forgotten to add the subtitles for the Klingon dialog.
I was showing it (and Trek II) to my sister who hadn't seen them. Thankfully I'm enough of a nerd I was able to translate from memory.
- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
Forget subtiles -- the capital F is driving me nuts.
Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
"Stealing" is taking without permission.
"Forging" is duplicating without permission.
"XYZ" is copying without permission.
AFAIK, XYZ is a new type of action (since the age of computing) that the English language does not yet have a verb for. It would be good to have a proper word to reduce confusion and misinformation.
Any good suggestions?
It's called "Plagiarism", to use another's production without crediting the source.
Like with so much in life, just because we have computers doesn't mean unethical behavior is a new thing in the world.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Commenting to undo accidental negative moderation, your post is actualy quite insightful.
I don't realy see any problem here. The subtitle community is creating the subtitles for the pirate versions of the movies in the first place and they are making them available for free on the internet.. What's wrong with netflix taking their subtitles, leaving atribution in them and using them in their service? (Considering they checked the quality of the subtitles first. Fan-made subtitles often have lots of errors in them). Why should netflix duplicate their work and make their own subtitles? Wouldn't the human resources be better spent on some more productive activity?
Closer, but plagiarism is to IP what forgery is to physical property. IP piracy is different in that the infringer is not seeking to present the work as their own, they are simply copying it for the benefit of others.
This is hardly a new type of action for which we need a new word, it goes back to at least the printing press. "Stealing" has probably been the approximation for centuries ("piracy" in this context is about 100 years old IIRC), but of course if society changes its thinking on the action then the connotations of stealing are no longer accurate.
This has happened on Greek television, too, 2-3 years ago (or maybe more; I'm getting old). They used amateur subtitles (quite often of better quality than the "professional" ones) on some series episode, and they forgot to remove the credits line with the site URL. AFAIR the subtitle-providing site still exists, but it doesn't provide subtitles anymore, after some legal hunting later on.
I speak England very best
Yes, everyone appears to be oblivious to it!
I wouldn't think there would be a big market for movies subtitled in Finnish - even in Finland I think most people can understand other languages (like English, or French, or German or the other Scandinavian languages)
Nearly all foreign TV shows and movies which are shown on Finnish TV channels are subtitled in Finnish – that’s the norm here. (Dubbing is normally never used here except for the content intended for kids under reading age. Also, the narrated sequences in some documentaries are sometimes re-narrated in Finnish whereas their on-screen dialogue remains subtitled. But those are pretty much the only exceptions.)
The same practices go for actual movies seen in a movie theater, and the shows and movies released on DVDs or Blu-Rays.
DivX Finland is mostly providing subtitles for the purposes of watching shows and movies which are not (yet) made available in Finland through official channels, or – as it might be the case with some more obscure foreign TV shows, for example – never will.
Some individuals who are fluent in some particular foreign language – usually English in the Finnish context – take pride in watching shows or movies of that language without subtitling. Yet, the norm here – which is also reflected in the default settings of the set-top boxes and TV sets – is that subtitles for translation are always on and visible. (The local TV channels show a lot of foreign content which specifically calls for translation. It just wouldn’t fly if they tried to provide it to the Finnish-speaking audience “as is”, with no effort to translate. People expect the translations to be there.)
Some Finnish-language shows may also have subtitles in Finnish for the benefit of the hard of hearing. But these subtitles, which are not about translation but transcription, are never seen by the normal folks as you need to fiddle with the settings of the TV to receive them. And only those who have the need will want to see them on their screen anyway. (There is also no legal requirement to provide such Finnish-on-Finnish transcription service, so the availability of such special-needs subtitles is pretty much limited to some select shows produced by YLE, the local public broadcaster.)
Netflix isn't available for free. GPL vs. BSD difference pops to my mind.
I have a brazilian blog about Netflix and I've got them some time ago doing the exact same thing: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.lancamentosnetflix.com.br%2F2012%2F09%2Fnetflix-baixando-legendas-da-internet.html
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
I stand corrected. I knew the language was distinct, but I had no idea that the national identity was so vehemently independent from the Swedes/Danes/Norwegians. I get the impression that it's like calling a Scotsman English.
That's a fair comparison I think. Finnish identity is very unique. It does of course have significant influences from both Swedish/Scandinavian influences and from Russian ones, but still manages to sit between them and be itself. Finns are not generally upset if lumped in with Scandinavians, but are quick to point out the differences. But be warned: Never call a Finn a Swede. :)
All of this of couse is irrelevant to the original post (I don't know if you were that AC or not). In response to the original post, it's correct that most Finns can at least understand English reasonably well, especially among younger people, but Finnish subtitles are still sometimes helpful for some of the nuances or for things that are quiet or have a lot of extraneous noise. I try to have both Finnish and English subtitles available for all my DVDs, and sometimes that means using the fine work of Divxfinland. At home, we usually watch with English subtitles on, but sometimes when certain friends are over, the Finnish ones are very useful.
Suokaa minun tietämättömyydestä.
Ei mitä, kaverini.
And I believe all orbits are ellipsis...
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
IP piracy is different in that the infringer is not seeking to present the work as their own
And just what exactly do you think Netflix showing you subtitles created by someone else IS!!!!!!
That is exactly why I raised this term.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
(There is also no legal requirement to provide such Finnish-on-Finnish transcription service, so the availability of such special-needs subtitles is pretty much limited to some select shows produced by YLE, the local public broadcaster.)
Actually, there is, but it only affects YLE. They have to provide hearing-impaired subtitles to 60% of their Finnish and Swedish programming, and the required percentage grows by 10 percentage points each year until 100% of Finnish and Swedish programs need to subtitled in 2016.
Source: Law (Valtioneuvoston asetus televisio-ohjelmiin liitettävästä ääni- ja tekstityspalvelusta)
They're too drunk to know that they are liars and thieves.
they just copied them.
Like most companies they probably sub-hire the work to other company, which then sub-hires a translator, and that's who probably copied them. So netflix probably payed for them...