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Tesla Model S Named 'Car of the Year'
SternisheFan writes with news that Automobile Magazine has named the all-electric Tesla Model S its Car of the Year. Quoting:
"We weren't expecting much from the Tesla other than some interesting dinner conversation as we considered 'real' candidates like the Subaru BRZ and the Porsche Boxster. In fact, the Tesla blew them, and us, away.
Actually, the Model S can blow away almost anything. 'It's the performance that won us over,' admits editor-in-chief Jean Jennings. 'The crazy speed builds silently and then pulls back the edges of your face. It had all of us endangering our licenses.' Our Model S was of Signature Performance spec, which means its AC induction motor puts out 416 hp and that it blasts to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds. ... You'll note that we haven't even discussed Tesla's raison d'etre, which is, in Musk's words, 'To accelerate the advent of electric cars.' That's another credit to the Model S's overall execution and seductive powers. 'The electric motor does not define this car,' says Nelson. But it is, at the end of the day, what makes this very good sport sedan an absolute game changer. The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving."
The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
Make no mistake, I'd really love one of these. But $78,500 is pricy.
Oh, and there is that all important question of how they hold up in a hurricane. Fisker's Karmas seem to have issues with getting wet.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
is this the first car to make "Car of the Year" in a major publication that isn't even being mass produced?
Sig: I stole this sig.
Did anyone else get the "Model T" reference? Like Tesla is taking a step back from the harmful environmentally dangerous combustion vehicles and redoing the whole thing. I have to admit this impresses me.
I bet we'll look back in few hundred years from within the confines of our brain jars and enjoy some very fine dream-inspired brandies and smoke about the wonders of the physical world and how foolish we were to think that was a good place to dwell for all eternity.
But until then let's enjoy these new environmentally friendly cars! To go from nowhere to nowhere for no reason other than your boss wants you to, and doing it all in style, without a bad environmental footprint apart from the scrap metal each of these will become one day.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
1) Tesla is leading the electric-car market mindshare for the simple reason that they've actually shipped a product, unlike perpetual bullshit machines BYD and Coda, who ship nothing but vaporware (wait, no - I think BYD eventually managed to get a few dozen out the door a few months ago, or something like that).
2) Think and Smart are/were doomed because they shipped crap that no-one was interested in. WTF is a "neighborhood electric vehicle"? I want a fucking ELECTRIC CAR, not a low-speed electric shitbox.
3) Series hybrids have a niche (garbage trucks and buses, mostly), and passenger cars are not that niche. This is why the Volt and Karma are failures.
4) Where are the lithium-air batteries?
5) The E 300 Bluetec HYBRID is cool.
I wonder if the Tesla cars have the same "hydrophobia" as the Fisker Karma ones that went up in flames in the flooding from Hurricane Sandy?
And the fisker has a VERY large battery. You'd hope for some short protection but obviously they didn't design for it being submerged. I'd be interested to know what happens if a Prius is submerged.
I read yesterday that a hundred Fiskers were flooded W/salt water by Sandy and they all caught fire afterwards
Hybrid electric cars like the Prius C are $20k new, but that's not exactly what you're asking about, I realize.
The battery is a big factor in the Model S' cost. 85 kilowatts of lithium ion batteries ain't cheap.
If price of the electric car > Price of cheap gas fueled car + 200,000 miles of gasoline then don't buy
God spoke to me
Can anyone convince me that this car can do well in the Canadian winter?
I imagine a dude freezing inside when he employs the heater. The [luxury] car then becomes a frozen coffin!
Yikes!
Look at that S-car go!
Hybrid electric cars like the Prius C are $20k new, but that's not exactly what you're asking about, I realize.
The battery is a big factor in the Model S' cost. 85 kilowatts of lithium ion batteries ain't cheap.
The Prius isn't really electric in any sense. Its an Atkinson Cycle car, with a battery and electric motor to make it usable in the real world. There's a reason it can't go highway speeds on electric. That's true of all the hybrids. The Volt is the only non-pure-EV that is really still an EV.
I have a Nissan Leaf. Range is under 100 miles but that meets my around town driving needs. We have my wife;s Prius for trips. Lease prices in October for 2012s were $200/month, $0 down, 24 months. Top speed is >90mph, seats 4 comfortably, 5 if a couple are kids. Decent trunk room. Good acceleration. Overnight charging in the garage with 120V (included) charger keeps me running, and my employer has 6 free charging stations on site, our town has 4, hospital has 2, etc.
Since there is no ICE, there is no oil to change, no transmission, no fluids to change, only 2 (windshield washer, inverter coolant) to top off. Only maintenance is changing wiper blades and rotating tires.
All in all a very drivable car, great end of year pricing, and very low cost to drive. EVs are here, available and practical. I love mine.
Maybe next time!
Not maybe, that's exactly the plan. Notice the trajectory here:
1) Tesla Roadster: Take a standard chassis, turn it into an electric car, sell as a high-performance roadster to people with ludicrous money lying around. The goal: to have a car prove the key technology: the battery and the engine.
2) Model S/X: Take the proven technology of the Roadster, put it into a sexy car that causes rich people to open their wallets, and sell it at a nice markup in the luxury segment. The goal: to work out the kinks in their manufacturing equipment and their supply chain.
3) Take their proven technology and manufacturing capability to create an electric for everybody.
In essence, Musk is doing a slow ramp-up that allows him to have customers subsidize the development of their final car. The 5k downpayment for a Model S is just as brilliant: it's free money for Tesla to build out their manufacturing capability. I love the Model S as a car, but it's the business model and the man at the top that makes think that Tesla is going to be the game changer for electric cars. The comparisons to Steve Jobs are not unwarranted.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I could get by on 50 miles range, if the damn thing didn't take 6 hours to recharge.
Top Gear had figured this out years ago when they talked about the Hydrogen powered Honda FCX Clarity - It will work better because it fits our paradigm of driving and filling up and driving some more, not necessarily because it gets good mileage.
I think I'd be perfectly happy to pay $20k for a Model S with a 5kw battery. You think they'd go for it? :)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
First and foremost, its ugly. Seriously Ugly, check it out here : http://www.teslamotors.com/models
Second off, it does not compare to Porsche in any real way, speed, agility, handling, comfort, all go to Porsche.
Next, its too expensive. 80 Grand for a car that looks like an ugly Buick? No thank you, I'll but a GTR or GT500 instead. Don't forget that you will need a 240W outlet (most homes have only one for your dryer), so you'll need that, or the high performance charging unit. Count on a nice addition to your electric bill every month.
Finally, average Joe won't get one. 5,000 units in 2012, that means you can't go to the dealer and snag one, not to mention you have to customize it 3 months beforehand to make sure you get what you want. Plunk down 5k, wait months and months and end up with a battery powered Buick Le Sabre. To hell with that. These auto mags really are useless dreck these days...
I think the car that SHOULD have won is the Ford C-Max Hybrid--especially with the Energi plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) coming out nationally in spring 2013. Unlike the Tesla Model S with its totally silly price tag, you can get a C-Max Hybrid for 1/3 the cost and still get over 40 mpg easily reasonable daily driving.
You're an idiot. The high cost has almost nothing to do with cost of construction labor, government mommy laws, or union vs. non-union labor. Quite simply the cost is high because the R&D hasn't been amortized yet over several decades of production. Additionally, the Tesla would almost certainly not exists were it not for grants and subsidies from the same "government" you allude/whine about. Shut up and consider yourself lucky to pay taxes to a government that offers you an almost historically unprecedented quality of life. Government and private industry both largely employ the same type of people, except the private industry ones expect to get paid 50-1000% percent more. Talk about waste of money... Why is it when people talk about private industry as a "unit" to praise its efficiency, etc. they don't somehow include how most business fail, and the time and money wasted as a result. /rant
The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
Make no mistake, I'd really love one of these. But $78,500 is pricy...
I'm not going to do the research.
How much do cars that go from 0 to 60 in 4.3 seconds generally cost? I dunno - that sounds very quick to me. This isn't just a sedan.
Wake me up when an electric car is $20k new
http://i.mitsubishicars.com/
$21.625 after the tax credit. So... wake up.
it's a motor, controller and a chassis, for crying out loud.
And a very expensive battery. The Nissan Leaf's battery costs http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-profitable-by-year-three-battery-cost-closer-to-18/">$18,000 to produce. This is why you don't see really good electric cars at that low of a price point. Fortunately, we have people making electric sports cars and they will help drive the advances in battery technology, eventually leading to cheaper, better batteries and cheaper electric cars.
The Model S's range, rated by the EPA at 265 miles with the largest battery, finally fits the American conception of driving.
But at $78,500 before a $7,500 tax rebate that doesn't fit the American concept of pricing.
It doesn't have to fit every American's price range. It just has to fit the price range of its target audience, which is people who would be buying Mercedes and BMW sedans.
(Also, that $78,500 price quoted was for a model near the top of the line-- the base model is $49,990. http://www.rsportscars.com/tesla/2013-tesla-model-s/ Still a big chunk of cash, but not significantly more than other cars of its class.)
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Screwed that link, didn't I.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-profitable-by-year-three-battery-cost-closer-to-18/
The home charging stations Tesla sells are 70kW, 10 times faster than most public 240-volt charging stations. At that rate, you can charge the full 265 mile battery pack in about 2 hours. But you'd have to find fellow Tesla owners across the country to charge from, since there are very few public Tesla stations. A normal 7kW charging station will take >12 hours. Tesla is working on a solar-powered Supercharger network, though, that is intended to let Model S drivers go across the country and up and down both coasts with strategically-placed 20-minute charges. Presently the network is operational on the California seaboard only.
If you're a single person driving tens of miles to work then tens of miles back, it totally makes sense to have a tiny electric car. Charge it at home, charge it at work, you're good to go.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
My ROT-26 decryptor technology can defeat your use of dual ROT-13 encryption in under 100 milliseconds! (*way* under 100 milliseconds).
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http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The sticker price of the car would never pay for the gas money you'd save by switching to it. I actually like the Tesla cars, you can go into their stores in some cities and it's pretty neat to see...but it's also expensive as hell. If you want to save on gas just buy a motorcycle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqRuPrT2azw
http://www.motorward.com/2012/10/drag-race-tesla-model-s-vs-bmw-m5-f10/
This is simply false. Anyone who drives less than 30 miles to work every day (which is the majority of Americans) is a potential EV owner. When you compare EVs to similarly-tricked-out gas cars, the prices are close, and when you include fuel and maintenance savings the EV wins outright. I don't know about you, but my personal driving habits don't include spontaneous trips of more than 100 miles without at least stopping to trade cars with a relative for the weekend. The marginally-reduced flexibility is totally worth the savings, moral satisfaction, and pedal-flooring fun of driving a clean electric vehicle.
While $20k for a new automobile may be your price point for purchasing one of these vehicles, why do you think this is a ridiculous price? Dismissing the cost here as if Tesla was somehow gouging the customers and that they have maybe $5k worth of parts and engineering in this vehicle is sort of absurd on your part.
There are some incredibly cheap electric automobiles including Zap Jonway, who sells an incredibly cheap electric vehicle. They don't have the performance of Tesla vehicles though. You could also get a golf cart if you don't want to worry about any sort of performance.
As for used vehicles, thanks for the "cash for clunker" program of Obama there are considerably fewer of those vehicles around to buy and their price is currently quite a bit higher... if you can even find them. Yes, there are "used" or "pre-owned" vehicles, but you can't find any $100 or $200 vehicles any more that you can take apart just for parts or spend a summer trying to rebuild.
The market that Telsa is going for right now are those who in America would normally be buying a BMW or Lexus, where $78k is typical.... perhaps a bit high but not too much. With the performance and the kind of interior work that you get with the Model S, I think it is priced about right and perhaps even a bargain for an electric automobile. If it doesn't fit your budget, don't be complaining.
Well, when the Ford Model T was introduced in 1908 at $850 ($ in current dollars), the next cheapest automobile you could buy cost over $3000, which is roughly $74K in 2012 dollars. Take the cheapest car you can buy today, say a Nissan Verso at $11,000 list. Cheap as it is, that car probably cost millions to develop, and if it were sold in the quantities that pre-Model T cars were sold it might well cost north of $50,000, just to amortize the engineering costs.
By 1908 standards, the Verso would be a marvel of engineering, yet it's $11K price tag when adjusted to 1908 dollars is only $446. That's far cheaper than the $850 price tag of the Model T. Two things make this amazingly low price: a century of experience in how to design and manufacture internal combustion engine vehicles, and huge sales volumes.
An early adopter for any technological innovation pays a steep premium. It's not range that has held back the electric car -- not in a society where four-car families is common. It's the early adopter premium you pay for new technology. That comes from having to figure out how to do so many new things (or get around limitations of current technology), and the small number of people who are willing to take the plunge with an immature technology.
It's not a case of the management at Tesla sitting down and saying to themselves, "What would be a good price for this car? How about $78,500?" $78,500 is no doubt the profit maximizing price. When the technology matures, they can *also* obtain economies of scale they can't get now. Economies of scale offered by lower prices would be overwhelmed by lack of technological know-how. This is why Tesla is focusing on the exotic car segment. Exotic cars are expected to be expensive and not entirely practical. They've produced a car which is expensive and lacks the full range of practicality of current ICE (i.e., no cross-country road trips). That's a canny way to bootstrap the development of a future model that will be the Model T of electric cars.
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Given that- and the time it has been since the Roadster came out- then for my 65th birthday I'll be able to afford a 2nd hand Tesla.
I turn 42 in two weeks.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Plus the Prius is uglier than my ass. And my ass is hairy and ugly.
Anyone who drives less than 30 miles to work every day (which is the majority of Americans) is a potential EV owner.
Don't you drive anywhere else?
When you compare EVs to similarly-tricked-out gas cars, the prices are close
No, my VW Jetta TDI was considerably cheaper and is much less of a hassle.
and when you include fuel and maintenance savings the EV wins outright
No, how much gas and maintenance (are we including replacing the batteries here?) can you get for $50k?
I don't know about you, but my personal driving habits don't include spontaneous trips of more than 100 miles without at least stopping to trade cars with a relative for the weekend.
Really? Do you live in the future, or perhaps a parallel universe?
The marginally-reduced flexibility is totally worth the savings, moral satisfaction, and pedal-flooring fun of driving a clean electric vehicle.
I'm glad you like it. I can't afford it, though. Plus, I don't want one.
I know... it's their award, they can do what they want, but I would assume that the "car of the year" would be the best mix of:
*Affordability
*Driver/Passenger Safety
*Safety for Other Road Users
*Fuel Economy/GHG Emissions per Mile
*Sustainability of Production and Retirement
*Attractiveness to the General Public
*Real-World Availability
Musk has said that his intention is to end up manufacturing a truly affordable electric car, and that this stage (the model S) isn't that; I'll take him at his word. Maybe next time! :)
To be fair, he's going about it the right way. He's bringing costs down by manufacturing an expensive vehicle for those that can afford it. The Model S is not only a much better car than the Roadster, it's also significantly cheaper. The Model X also looks fantastic. I imagine in another 5-7 years you'll get your $20k Tesla announced.
although with those crushed silicon anodes from that other slashdot story, they may get a lot cheaper in a couple of years. Just in time for my wife and I to pay off her car and be ready for a new one for me :)
The Prius C is a hybrid Yaris, and the Yaris (and other names in other countries) is one of the best-selling car lines in the world... I don't think the general consensus would agree with your opinion of the appearance of the Prius C.
Yes, I keep hoping that I'll win the lottery too. Of course, if I did, the X wouldn't be my primary car, but I'd probably want one in my massive garage that I'd have built.
You're replying to the wrong person. I never said the Model S was overpriced. I think it's appropriately priced for the market it's in.
Well... see, the thing is, gasoline isn't really $4.17 / gallon. The gas is much less, and the rest of that price is taxes that go for road maintenance.
The lurking problem here for pure electric uses is that no mechanism exists (yet) to add the road maintenance cost to the fueling (electric) costs of running an electric car, or a hybrid running on electricity from the wall (electricity from the gas engine is covered -- we pay for it when we fuel the gas engine.) Because of this, the actual running cost of electric-from-other-than-petro operation is being vastly underestimated, or perhaps "put off" is a better term.
I have no quibble with the higher efficiency of the powerplant...transmission...storage system as compared to direct, small-vehicle burning of petro fuels, but the running cost is clearly not being compared apples-to-apples at this point in the game. Just something to think about. Operating costs could (and I expect will) change significantly when the legislators decide to get around to it.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
"Best selling" doesn't mean "most popular appearance." It might mean "within the reach of most people's financial ability."
Karnal
As the article itself has pointed out, Tesla still hasn't passed the biggest test facing it: whether or not they can mass produce the vehicle. The numbers stated, only 250 out of 15,000 preorders delivered, says everything. Once Tesla gets over that hump, I think then they truly deserve the kudos.
I agree, except I'd go a little further to say that $78k is ridiculous.
Wake me up when an electric car is $20k new - it's a motor, controller and a chassis, for crying out loud.
When new technologies are being introduced, they are inevitably going to be expensive. When PCs were first introduced, they were out of the reach of most consumers. The original Apple II cost $1300 dollars in 1977. Inflation adjusted, that is $5000 in 2012 dollars. And that's without a monitor. Now, manufacturing capabilities have improved and benefit from economies of scale, and you can get a far more capable computer for a few hundred dollars. TVs show the same pattern. The first color TV cost $1295 in 1954, over $10,000 in 2012 dollars.
Electric cars will follow the same trajectory as computers and color TVs- initially they will be luxury goods, and only a handful of people will be able to afford them. Eventually, the price will come down, and they will be within the reach of the average consumer. Tesla's goal is to make those cars, but since the technology is still so expensive, it makes more economic sense to develop and market a car aimed at the sports car market, rather than a conventional automobile. As the technology matures and manufacturing processes improve, the hope is ultimately to develop and sell affordable, mass-market electric cars.
I don't consider that an adequately sized car. When I say "car", I'm talking a traditional sedan.
No offense if you like very small cars. But I don't, and I wouldn't buy one.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
True, but "uglier than my ass" is not something I've heard typically used to describe the Yaris. It doesn't look anything like the original Prius.
I think the price is ridiculous because I can buy a decent car for a lot less than that, that's all.
Buying at that price make no economic sense; and that's one of the metrics I use when selecting an automobile. Pretty much that simple.
If someone wants to pay that kind of money for a car, they're using metrics other than economic to make their selection. That's why I say this is luxury territory. It's a luxury car, plain and simple.
Well... not that hard. I recently (January/2012) bought a full-sized pickup for $1000. Runs perfectly, probably has many years of life left in it. So far, my only investment has been a $2.00 pushbutton to serve as the starter relay drive in lieu of the ignition switch, which went nipples north one morning.
Not complaining. Just not buying, and indicating where I sit, and what would entice me to buy. That's why my post was titled "Exactly. 78k is luxury territory" As you might imagine, a car I have zero interest in isn't exactly in the running for my own candidates for "car of the year", lol
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Anyone who drives less than 30 miles to work every day (which is the majority of Americans) is a potential EV owner.
Don't you drive anywhere else?
Apparently not. In my almost perfect log of daily mileage starting in April, only once have I drive more than 100 miles in one day, and there was enough time in my schedule to charge enough to get home. I live 6 miles from work and 1 mile from school, so most days I drive less than 20 miles. My parents are 15 miles away, my friends are 30 miles away, and I usually carpool when going farther than that.
When you compare EVs to similarly-tricked-out gas cars, the prices are close
No, my VW Jetta TDI was considerably cheaper and is much less of a hassle.
and when you include fuel and maintenance savings the EV wins outright
No, how much gas and maintenance (are we including replacing the batteries here?) can you get for $50k?
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to compare. If you are comparing buying a new electric car to keeping your old gas one, that is a totally different question from what I intended. I also cannot comment on the economics of buying a $50,000 car, ever, and limit my discussions of economy to the Nissan Leaf. My statement is based off the Edmunds.com 5-year True Cost to Own(tm) comparing the base model Nissan Leaf to the base model Toyota Corolla: $35,567 for the Leaf, versus $37,440 for the Corolla, in spite of the feature advantage the Leaf has.
The batteries are holding up remarkably well for the majority of Leaf owners, and are warranted to maintain 80% of their original range after 8 years or 100,000 miles. It is difficult to estimate how much reduced range will lower the value of the car, but expectations are that they will still hold their value better than gas cars because they will still run just fine on cheap, clean electricity.
I don't know about you, but my personal driving habits don't include spontaneous trips of more than 100 miles without at least stopping to trade cars with a relative for the weekend.
Really? Do you live in the future, or perhaps a parallel universe?
No, but I live in an urban area with two large cities within 50 miles, both with adequate transit systems, which is quite possibly the same thing from your perspective.
The marginally-reduced flexibility is totally worth the savings, moral satisfaction, and pedal-flooring fun of driving a clean electric vehicle.
I'm glad you like it. I can't afford it, though. Plus, I don't want one.
If your lifestyle doesn't fit the EVs currently on the market, then I don't blame you. I respect that you will make the right decision for your particular needs. But not everyone is exactly like you, there are plenty of people who can save money and enjoy owning an EV, so bashing them is arbitrary and rude. After all, the most popular vehicle model in America is the F-150 pickup with a measly 2% of market share, proving that a car can be successful without having to satisfy everyone and their uncle.
Well, maybe. I could buy it easily, without resorting to a loan or a trade-in. I just wouldn't. From my POV, that's about 58k that I would be using very, very poorly, and that's not part of my approach to life. All I have to do is consider what great things can be done with 58k; things that would have far more lifespan and day to day use than a car, too. To me, that car simply makes no economic sense.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Yes, ok. Well, let's see. Electric cars were introduced in... 1828.
Ok, kidding. Yes, and I'm waiting. I'd really like one of these in electric, with a range of, oh, say 20 miles or more.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
You get what you ask for. If you say "burger" and mean "triple patty with extra cheese", you're going to be disappointed in the result.
Given that- and the time it has been since the Roadster came out- then for my 65th birthday I'll be able to afford a 2nd hand Tesla.
I turn 42 in two weeks.
Well, either electrify something old yourself (like a triumph, MR2, lotus if you can afford one, VW bug if you can't) and live the dream. These days it's a matter of purchasing components and plugging them together. Well, you may have to make some cables.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Ah. Now we're cooking. Car::food analogies!
I would contend a normal sedan is a burger. A triple patty with cheese is a corvette, a steak dinner is a Lamboghini, and an all-out crazed no-holds-barred feed-fest with champagne is a Rolls. A good convertible is a chicken sandwich without the top bun. That would make Tesla S... about a double patty, but with special cheese.
One of those bubbles with wheels is more like a half a McNugget, with no sweet and sour sauce, where every time you try to eat it, your fingers get stuck in the cardboard. And just when you think you've got it handled, the dog steps on it and ruins your meal.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
My job requires a car. My priority is to buy as small a car as I can (still need to fit wife and kids and groceries after work) with an emphasis on fuel-efficiency. Then I drive the snot out of it for as many years as I can until it's not worth maintaining or reselling. Lather, rinse, repeat.
For what I spend on gas, over the typical lifetime of my vehicles, the huge purchase price is almost negated by the lack of gas bills. Only the annual trip to and from the inlaws would be cumbersome as I would apparently need 2 one-hour stops to recharge, one of which would be a meal break anyway.
tl; dr: If forced to, I could live with the pricing now for luxury I don't want; if they could afford to create a comparable middle-class version, it would be a no-brainer for me and I'd buy one *right now*.
When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
I think the price is ridiculous because I can buy a decent car for a lot less than that, that's all.
Buying at that price make no economic sense; and that's one of the metrics I use when selecting an automobile. Pretty much that simple.
Again, this is likely a car you would never buy even if it was strictly an ordinary internal combustion engine vehicle with the same kind of engineering and styling. What you think is a decent car would likely not be a luxury sedan that would be purchased by a well-paid professional (aka full-partner lawyer or senior physician with an established practice). That is the market which Tesla is targeting.
This is even a pretty reasonable strategy where Tesla is trying to skim off the boutique market of well heeled customers that are less concerned about price but more concerned about creature comforts. The market for buyers of those kind of automobiles is rather small (just a few thousand cars at the high end... which is where they were selling the Roadster). The Model S is admittedly the next tier down from the very high end cars, but then again Tesla seems to have a factory which can ramp up production considerably as well as expand if necessary.
Trying to build this mass consumer automobile you are expecting them to make takes an insane amount of capital... which is one of the reasons why America has had only three auto manufactures for many decades. Frankly it is amazing that Tesla was able to not only design these vehicles but get through the whole U.S. Department of Transportation certification process to get these vehicles into serial production. Few other companies making electric automobiles have been able to get that accomplished, including the "big boys" like General Motors.
Hopefully this Model S will start to sell in the range of 20k-50k vehicles per year for a couple of years.... which will give Tesla the cash needed to expand and get those cheaper vehicles you are hoping for. This is an issue purely of economics, where the margins needed to build the lower price cars are much thinner and simply need a much larger volume of production in order to make a profit.
You left out 4. Profit!!!
*sigh* must I remind you next time?
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
The Prius can do 62MPH on its electric motor alone. I have been looking at getting one because I could probably drive to work on the battery alone. By most people's definition it is a true hybrid.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I love the way we're talking about car power in kW rather than horsepower, at last.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
After $7,500 tax credit, assuming purchaser is paying $7,500 a year in taxes, and it's been widely reported that half of America doesn't earn enough to pay federal taxes. You can't get back $7,500 if you didn't pay it to begin with.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
The engine kicks in almost straight away. No real chance you will drive to work on electric. The only real advantage is the engine is off when sitting in traffic. Fuel efficiency is ok, nothing amazing. Nowhere near what is advertised. The worst is that you cannot plug it in to recharge, you MUST charge via the motor. Any attempt to charge directly voids your warranty.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
You may have done this prior to availability. But you missed the Ford Focus EV. It's substantially larger than the Leaf but I'd like to see the analysis include it.
I love my Volt!
The plug-in version has an electric range of 12 miles, but careful driving will get you more. I could get to work on electric alone.
http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/frame_start.jsp?id=CC2-Prius-Plug-landing
Protip: Google before making a prat of yourself.
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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Why is it when people talk about private industry as a "unit" to praise its efficiency, etc. they don't somehow include how most business fail,
Why is it that people like yourself don't understand that failure is a beneficial feature of a market economy, and not a bug?
tl; dr: If forced to, I could live with the pricing now for luxury I don't want; if they could afford to create a comparable middle-class version, it would be a no-brainer for me and I'd buy one *right now*.
Cutting out the luxury has been done by every other electric car manufacturer. As it turns out, cutting the luxury only saves perhaps $10k. After that you start cutting necessities, like reasonable performance and heating and range.
I have recently compared the cost of batteries for saving solar power. Buying a Tesla Model S and taking the batteries, throwing the actual car bit away, is actually cost competitive to buying batteries off-the-shelf. I do not know how they achieve such amazing pricing, but they must have a fantastic deal with their battery supplier.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Given that- and the time it has been since the Roadster came out- then for my 65th birthday I'll be able to afford a 2nd hand Tesla.
So how's that Marxism thing working out for you?
It's not clear whether Tesla's path to the masses will ever involve ramping up production to that extent. It might instead involve licensing technology to companies that are already in the business of mass production of cars.
YouTube - Test drive ridealong: http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=oqRuPrT2azw
YouTube - Drag race, Tesla Model S vs. BMW M5: http://www.motorward.com/2012/10/drag-race-tesla-model-s-vs-bmw-m5-f10
Well, I actually should have said "85 kilowatt hours" :P The engine itself is actually 310 kilowatts in the performance model, or 270 kilowatts in the regular model.
For comparison, the Leaf is 80 kW, the Volt is split into one 111 kW and one 55kW, and the Prius C is 45 kW (for the electric motor only).
Badly, which is why I've moved on to Chestertonian distributism. See my tag line- Tendence Reinhard, not Tendance Karl.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.