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Bungled Mobile Bet Will Be Ballmer's Swan Song

snydeq writes "'If Windows 8 and the Surface tablet flop, you'll see a shareholder revolt that will send Steve Ballmer packing by this time next year,' writes InfoWorld's Bill Snyder. 'First it was the netbook, then it was the Ultrabook. Microsoft, Intel, and the PC makers keep looking for a way to convince buyers they don't need an iPad or Android tablet. Neither initiative gained much traction, so Microsoft bet big on Windows 8 and the Surface. ... Maybe we're wrong, and buyers will decide that the new OS and the Microsoft's first serious venture into hardware are what they want. It would be a huge boost for the industry if it happens, but I'm not optimistic. ... There's been a string of bad quarters, and the stock has been frozen for nine years. At some point — I think we're getting really close — investors are going to demand a shakeup. When they do, it's going to be good-bye, Ballmer."

300 comments

  1. I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It came with Windows 7 Starter though I've never actually used it. I upgraded the 1GB factory RAM to 2 GB. It runs Kubuntu like a dream, I replaced the factory HDD with an SSD and I have it booting Chromium from power button to login prompt in 26 seconds.

    Why I really like it?

    It fits in a small backpack. It's no problem carrying it when I bike, unlike a larger laptop, it's got awesome battery life and I've had two major bike crashes where I got pretty descent injuries (chainline failures at bad times, both of them) with the thing in my backpack and it's still working perfectly today. Best initial $250 I ever spent on a computer and the upgrades I put in were totally worth it.

    I don't use it for much more than web browsing, it's not a work horse, but it does web browsing like a champ, and I have done some very minor Gimp edits and some other things on it too.

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    1. Re:I like my netbook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Ditto. Netbooks are great if you delete Windows and install a real OS. I'm wondering what I'm going to replace mine with when it dies, if the rush to tablets continues.

    2. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would love to have an Ultrabook also, so I could do serious work on the road. Probably wouldn't use it much since I use surf on the netbook and do my serious work on my desktop, but an Ultrabook has it's place for certain work.

      Still - removing Windows would be my first task.

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    3. Re:I like my netbook. by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      I have an ultrabook as well, and I have a feeling my next machine will be as well. Tablets are only 'okay' for browsing, laptops are a bit big. An ultrabook is just the right balance of everything. If people start making them with higher resolution displays, I'll be even happier.

    4. Re:I like my netbook. by Patch86 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Agreed. I'm on my second since the form factor really took off, and I'll happily replace it with #3 when this one reaches the end of its life.

      And ditto with Linux (my current one is running vanilla Ubuntu- Unity is pretty decent for the form factor. Although considering its heritage as Ubuntu Netbook Remix, that's not a huge surprise).

      Tablets just aren't laptops, however hard you squint at them. And big "proper laptops" (desktop replacements, like the one I use for work) just aren't portable enough. For a good, portable, proper laptop, the form factor is exactly what I want.

    5. Re:I like my netbook. by fl!ptop · · Score: 1

      Best initial $250 I ever spent on a computer and the upgrades I put in were totally worth it.

      This. For the price, you can't beat 'em. I've had my EeePC for 3 years now and have been picking them up for friends and customers on ebay for up to $200 (new, unused, 1 year old, etc.). My favorites to bid on are the people who get them for free at a convention or whatever but never use it and it just sits in the closet until they realize, "Oh yeah, I can probably sell that."

      I can do everything on my EeePC that I can do on my desktop at home and work, running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. Everything works, webcam, mic, wireless. And I too have beat the crap out of it through rough handling and carelessness and it's still purring along.

      --
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    6. Re:I like my netbook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-12-l221x/pd

      XPS 12 ultrabook has 1920 by 1080 on a 12 inch screen. Screen is also touch and flips for use as a tablet. I was actually looking at it before moving on to something else.

    7. Re:I like my netbook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that netbook is using a disk drive, then a quick caution is in order. Your body is acting as a shock absorber between the bike and the netbook in your backpack. If you ever think about upgrading to a pannier rack with the netbook in a bag attached to the bike frame, resist the temptation. The road vibration will kill the disk drive. I did this ONCE and lost a drive. Thankfully I was able to recover all the data, but it was still a pain.

    8. Re:I like my netbook. by luther349 · · Score: 1

      its not that netbook did not sell well but they only sell once. you don't look to upgrade it every 6 months and only replace it if it brakes or gets so old it cant even do the web and none of them are that old yet. not to say they didn't try to release bigger badder netbooks every 6 months its just nobody cares because there base function is the web, tablets where meant as the next generation netbook same functions half the size sevrel times the battery life but what happened was it also started taking over mobile gaming.so the need for faster nicer and cheaper tablets rose. so now tablet maker have a throw away device people will replace every 6 months.

    9. Re:I like my netbook. by isopropanol · · Score: 1

      I have 2. My personal is an ancient Acer ZG5 with 8GB slow SSD running Kubuntu, works like a charm. My work one is an ASUS T101MT (laptop/tablet hybrid) running Win7 Pro (too many contracting companies send windows-only tools) Also works like a charm - with system protection and indexing off, a large class 10 SD card for readyboost, mydefrag and ntregopt run after any updates, and NO bloatware installed .

      As far as I'm concerned, the netbook is a very nice form factor for mobile use, I use it for longer tasks (paperwork, configuring routers, etc) along side my tablet (for instant emails), and plug it into keyboard, mouse, and monitor when I'm in the office. If someone made a fast netbook sized rotateable screen device (like T101MT) with a stand with power+epcie connector dock it would be ideal.

    10. Re:I like my netbook. by luther349 · · Score: 1

      no moving parts and just being built tough as nails helps.

    11. Re:I like my netbook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those look great. Shame about the GPU though.

    12. Re:I like my netbook. by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      ... I've had two major bike crashes where I got pretty descent injuries (chainline failures at bad times, both of them) with the thing in my backpack and it's still working perfectly today.

      What is a "chainline failure"? I own a bike. I've even been hit by a car (ruining my backpack because I couldn't get the blood washed out). I've used google (and I got your post as like the 5th result -- I did not know they'd gotten so "real time"). But I don't know what you mean. Am I overthinking this and your chain broke or came off, or is this something else that can kill me I didn't even know I had to worry about?

      BTW, my netbook didn't get crash tested like yours, but a bag of coffee beans I'd just purchased did. It survived.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    13. Re:I like my netbook. by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      Thanks! That looks pretty damn good, although I'd still prefer a bit more resolution. Now I need to check out how KDE and Gnome run on a touch screen.

    14. Re:I like my netbook. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I too have the ZG5 with 8GB SSD. I picked it up cheap off a guy who's XP install was borked and I tried many linux distro's before I settled on Peppermint OS which works like it was made for the thing. I love it as it weighs hardly anything and actually fits in my coat pocket.

    15. Re:I like my netbook. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Why not have an ultrabook that can double as a tablet?

    16. Re:I like my netbook. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Tablets just aren't laptops, however hard you squint at them.

      Is this or this a tablet or a laptop?

    17. Re:I like my netbook. by wazoox · · Score: 1

      I just bought a Ubuntu-preloaded Asus 1225C. It's really quite nice, cheap, but powerful enough, very light, and a good 6 to 7 hours of battery. I like it, it actually feels like good value for the (little) money, with a decent screen quality and size (1366x768); I was tired of my Acer Aspire One 1024x600 screen, really too cramped even for basic web browsing.

    18. Re:I like my netbook. by MonkeyBoy · · Score: 1

      This is just a guess, but I suspect he meant a chain link failure.

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      Moof!

    19. Re:I like my netbook. by crazycheetah · · Score: 2

      I haven't personally actually used it on a touchscreen yet, but from the videos and such that I've seen of KDE on a touchscreen, it looks like a pretty good deal on a touchscreen, if you use the more touch oriented interfaces in it. I have played with them on my non-touch screen and they're nice, but I can tell they are more practical for use on a touchscreen than with a mouse, as much as they do still handle the mouse very well. And I do know that KDE keeps getting better with their touchscreen interface, learning from their mistakes and overcoming their shortcomings. Apps are likely to be a whole different ballgame, though (again, haven't had the chance to actually try, so I could be surprised)... and I also can't speak for Gnome (never was a Gnome fan, even when everyone else actually liked it--back that far, I used Fluxbox, actually) or some details for any of them, like onscreen keyboard, etc.

      I can say, by my limited experience with both, that I am more attracted to KDE's touchscreen interface than I am Windows 8's interface, but that's just me and a good number of people don't seem to agree with me on that...

    20. Re:I like my netbook. by man_ls · · Score: 1

      I suspect he has poor riding technique, or is riding a fixie where form wins over function and a frequent failure mode is getting your clothing sucked into the chain line with no possible way of stopping the bike quickly, resulting in fairly horrifying and dramatic crashes with high potential for injury as a lot of rotational force with nowhere to go suddenly is transferred into your body.

      I ride and race mountain bikes, and while crashing in those settings certainly has a high potential for injury, I've never had any issues from drivetrain failures; nor has anyone I've ridden with. This includes things like the chain falling behind the cassette and seizing the real wheel needing complete dis-assembly, chains snapping under power or falling off front cogs, and even binding on a derailleur cog resulting in snapping the chain, the metal derailleur cage, and the derailleur hanger clean off the bike.

    21. Re:I like my netbook. by JanneM · · Score: 1

      I used to use Panasonc Let's Note machines. They're really "ultraboooks" long before Intel coined the term. Netbook size but full-powered laptops. I was pretty happy with them (paid in part by work, so the cost wasn't a big issue).

      Last year I got an Android tablet. Cheap and nasty, but still surprisingly useful, so I upgraded it to a Nexus 7 when it became available. When it was time for me to get a new laptop I realized that they overlapped quite a lot. The _really_ portable use-cases - check email and my schedule on the road, read stuff and so on - are now all covered by the N7. I didn't need to accept the compromises of an "ultra"-anyting any more.

      So I got a Lenovo T430, and maxed it out for memory and storage. It is a much better laptop than a netbook or ultrabook. On the other hand the N7 is a much better ultraportable data terminal. They complement each other beautifully. I'm not saying it's the right kind of combination for everybody (with a netbook or ultrabook you have a single device, not two) but it's a thing worth keeping in mind.

      --
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    22. Re:I like my netbook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kde plasma active is built for tablets.

    23. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      It had HDD in it then. Both bikes were BMX, one was a 26" DJ BMX (I've since spoked up a new back wheel) the other was a 24" Cruiser/Dirt Jumper that is in need a of a new wheel set. The salt water from hurricane Ike was too hard on the rims and spokes even after cleaning and oiling, it's in the garage waiting for me to lace in a new set of wheels, fortunately I was able to save the frame and the rest.

      The HDD is still good but I've got an HDD now. Yes, my body acted as a shock, but I still transferred a bit back there. BTW, I was 33 years old during both wrecks - why do you ask.....

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    24. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      This is the real winning statement of course. What I like so much about mine is what the companies dislike.

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    25. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Come on. On a scale of 1-10 when it comes to trolling that had to be a solid 2, I might give you a 3 if I'm feeling generous. I've seen better trolls from a five year old trying to play April Fools day jokes.

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    26. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      On the second one.

      My Eastern Traildigger has very short drop outs, the replacement wheel I got had a different number of teeth and I tried to dial in the size with a half link, the half link split while I was trying to pedal fast and I went over the handle bars. That was the second one.

      The first one the chain jumped on the Diamondback Lucky 24 that had been through Hurricane Ike, over the handle bars. That was the first one, the second wreck was nearly identical in execution to the first only I landed on the other elbow.

      Thing about BMX, when you try to go fast you're nearly leaning over the handlebars anyways, when the chain goes you go over.

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    27. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I am NOT a hipster. No fixies here and I regularly make fun of those people.

      BMX is a bit different you just about lean over the handlebars to pick up speed. I've had bad experiences with derailers as a kid and I tend to avoid them, of course now I've had bad experiences with single speed style chain lines.

      I've got four bikes, two 24" BMX's, a 26" MTBMX/DJBMX and a three speed gear hub town bike/comfort bike.

      I own up to both failures having to do with my own engineering. I learned a lot about lacing wheels, gearing, spacing and may other things that year. I'm now a go to guy for those things, but I learned in the school of hard knocks.

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    28. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I'm using an Aspire One, and yes it's a bit cramped, but I hit F11 to go full screen and I tend to do alright. I do like the looks of your ASUS though and would seriously consider one as my next one, when I need one.

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    29. Re:I like my netbook. by wazoox · · Score: 1

      Back in 2008 the Aspire One was really excellent, contrary to the EeePC of the time it has a keyboard large enough for my big hands; the main culprit with it nowadays is the 512MB of RAM, which are not enough even for Firefox, and upgrading, though possible, is a terrible PITA. The 1225C comes with 2GB and a dual core, HT processor which gives it enough oomph to play back comfortably hi quality video from the HDMI to my TV (tried this last night).

    30. Re:I like my netbook. by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough- but at $1500 (so says the rumour mill), they're hardly competing for the same market as the $200 netbook.

    31. Re:I like my netbook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You (and many, many others like you) sound like exactly the market for a Chromebook, incidentally.

      Windows is pretty doomed. Finally.

    32. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I have the AO255. It came with 1GB of RAM but I walked out of the store with a 2GB stick to replace it with. I've since replaced the Wifi card with one that does N and Bluetooth and put an SSD in. I've got quite an investment in the little thing, but it's never given me a problem. In fact I would say it's the most compatible least problematic machine I've ever owned - except maybe the built in SD reader which just doesn't seem to work with Linux. It seems like it worked before but not now, I don't use it enough to even warrant trouble shooting. I shot a video the other day to show off the 26 seconds button to login prompt with Chromium OS.

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    33. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I love the idea of a Chromebook. Those first generation models just didn't offer anything. For less money I could get a normal off the shelf netbook and put Chromium on it or not, didn't matter, I would have a more capable machine for less money. Now the newer generation Chromebooks with the lower price tag and ARM processors are starting to look quite tempting, closer to what the first model should have cost. Of course instead of being more expensive than a regular netbook they tie in cost, but at least they're trying.

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    34. Re:I like my netbook. by Kagetsuki · · Score: 1

      Ultrabook. I have an Asus Zenbook (the small A4 sized one) running Ubuntu 12.10 with Gnome 3 and it's fantastic. It's an older model, and I got it just before a model change for something like $500 in USD. The battery lasts a good 6 hours with a normal workload and the evenlope case it came with is nice too.

      Personally I'd love to have one of the Toshiba ultrabooks - much more refined with smoother edges and better construction plus some neat features like lighted keys. But at twice the price it's hard to justify it over the Zenbook and the fact it doesn't come in A4 size is a big detractor.

    35. Re:I like my netbook. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The first one I linked to is $600, and then $100 for the keyboard dock. Still not netbook territory, but not Air, either.

    36. Re:I like my netbook. by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      So, basically you're doing nothing what this article is talking about.

      Gotcha.

      --
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    37. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I got hit by a car last night - her fault completely and admittedly. I was on my 09 Globe Carmel 2 (26" version of that one). I landed on my butt just slightly and rolled across my backpack. I'm no light weight even though I bike including BMX, I'm 260 lbs. I don't know what happened, but my entire body was on my backpack as some point, even my legs were a bit up in the air. My Kindle and the netbook I mentioned were in my backpack along with a ceramic coffee mug I didn't want at my apartment anymore so I brought it to work. NOTHING was broke in the backpack, it was all just fine. Both of the wheels on my bike got bent, but get this, I already had a replacement rim at home, the spokes that came with the bike from the factory sucked balls and due to so many of them being snapped on the rear I bought the rim with the intent of tearing down the back wheel, having the gear hub serviced, then building it back up without the crappy spokes. I tore down both wheels, I'm having the gear hub serviced, I already build the front one back with the new rim and I have another rim ordered for the back now, both 36 spoke.

      The netbook has now survived three bike wrecks, on three of my four bikes. I'm wondering if the universe is telling me not to ride the race bike I built, especially with my netbook in my back pack since it's the only one I haven't bit it on.

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    38. Re:I like my netbook. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Using a netbook, which this does talk about, doesn't count?

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    39. Re:I like my netbook. by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Sorry about your accident. Hope you weren't hurt badly.

      JIC, some things I learned from my experience:

      Make sure to follow-up with your physician in a week or so or whenever he/she wants you back.

      Sadly, we've learned a lot about diagnosing and treating closed-head injuries, better safe than sorry if you got your "bell rung".

      Two physicians and a lawyer told me to put off any settlement for injury costs for at least 6 months to be sure nothing comes up. Good advice, I hadn't even gotten all my bills until months after the driver's insurance sent me a claim form. I didn't even know that more were coming.

      Your car insurance won't be interested in helping you in a case where you weren't driving your car.

      Last -- if you do need to settle for medical costs, make sure you figure in what your insurance paid, not just your out-of-pocket -- some policies, like mine, have subrogation clauses that allow insurance companies to collect their full payment amount, even if you settle for less they're not required that you be "made whole". You could actually owe them more than you collected! (I learned two new terms from that episode.)

      Again, sorry about your accident. I hope none of this applies (but do tell your doctor). Glad to hear about the netbook, at least.

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      I am not a crackpot.
  2. Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Well, I'm in an odd predicament here ... on the one hand I'd love to see Steve Ballmer leave Microsoft but on the other who would be left for me to write satirical posts about on Slashdot?

    The other thing is that I sort of sympathize with Ballmer. Sure, Windows 8 and Surface have flaws. Even when Microsoft does something right like the Kinect, we're upset that those open drivers aren't released on day one. And being a lowly software developer with zero stock in Microsoft (okay, I don't really track my 401k funds down to the stock), I sort of have to ask shareholders a big question: If you want to oust Ballmer over Windows 8 and Surface tablet, why didn't you simply sell all your shares and even short the stock when they debuted? I mean, hindsight is 20/20 and shareholders get to play this game where they read the SEC reports on these things, then they get to sit there watching and then if these products fail they basically go on a litigation witch hunt on whoever made these decisions. But if Windows 8 and the Surface tablet are huge hits? Well, you'll never hear a peep from those shareholders. They likely either quietly cash out or demand more growth (thus delaying pending litigation).

    I can understand shareholders suing over actual gross negligence or actual shady accounting and misreporting to the SEC. But it should be the SEC who decides which company to sue over that. Look, if you've got shares in Microsoft and it's painfully obvious that Windows 8 and the Surface Tablet are gonna flop then what in the hell are you doing holding onto those shares? Microsoft should decide internally if it's Ballmer's time to go, not some shareholder with their eye on the prize and little knowledge of technology. I don't like to defend Ballmer and he very well may have conceived these things himself and pushed them through development and production -- but wouldn't the people on the inside know that it's time for him to step down after that?

    I'm pretty sure what happened here was Ballmer said, "What's the best thing we got? Okay, we're going with that." If it was Steve Jobs style micromanaging that forced these products through and the board of directors has no clout against Ballmer then the shareholders might have a place here. I just don't see that right now.

    Also I feel like there's a lot of potential explanations for this guy's complaints:

    But the really telling number was in the Windows Division, with revenue of $3.24 billion, down a frightening 33 percent from the same period last year.

    So Microsoft releases the first stable version of Windows 7 on February 22 of 2011 and a year later you're calling a 1/3 drop in Windows sales "frightening"? Perhaps they were just coming down from everyone's move to Windows 7? I mean you (hopefully) only need to buy that once for your machine.

    This author claims to be "putting his neck on the line" with this prediction but all I see are a lot of questions that want you to believe what he's saying will happen without him ever actually saying that Microsoft's mobile will flop and Steve Ballmer will then be ousted. To back that up he goes on with further questions surrounding earnings reports. God I've wasted too much time on this post already considering how insipid the original article is.

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    1. Re:Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is going to get sued; a poorly performing CEO will be fired.

    2. Re:Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by JMJimmy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So Microsoft releases the first stable version of Windows 7 on February 22 of 2011 and a year later you're calling a 1/3 drop in Windows sales "frightening"? Perhaps they were just coming down from everyone's move to Windows 7? I mean you (hopefully) only need to buy that once for your machine.

      When revenue in just about all divisions drop to near 2006 levels, you've got a problem.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-income-by-segment-2012-10

    3. Re:Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When revenue in just about all divisions drop to near 2006 levels, you've got a problem.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-income-by-segment-2012-10

      That would be the Pre-Post-PC era.

    4. Re:Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by MaerD · · Score: 1

      . And being a lowly software developer with zero stock in Microsoft (okay, I don't really track my 401k funds down to the stock), I sort of have to ask shareholders a big question: If you want to oust Ballmer over Windows 8 and Surface tablet, why didn't you simply sell all your shares and even short the stock when they debuted?

      I think what's being suggested here is the bigger shareholders (who likely have someone on the board) that are taking longer term views (usually retirement/401k/etc funds) that see microsoft as a fairly safe long term bet are starting to get this itchy feeling.
      The things that microsoft has handled badly (Vista, Mobile in general, now windows 8 is getting much the same reaction as vista, developers developers developers..) are starting to look like a bad trend. These aren't the guys who are just going to go "eh, one bad thing, short the stock!" these are guys who will sit back and go "bump in the road" and wait. When the bumps keep coming they tend to wake up and demand change.

      I mean, hindsight is 20/20 and shareholders get to play this game where they read the SEC reports on these things, then they get to sit there watching and then if these products fail they basically go on a litigation witch hunt on whoever made these decisions.

      I can understand shareholders suing over actual gross negligence or actual shady accounting and misreporting to the SEC. But it should be the SEC who decides which company to sue over that.

      This isn't suing, this is shareholders going "change the captain before we hit more rocks"

      --
      I put on my robe and wizard hat..
    5. Re:Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Kinect seems isolated to just the XBox, and not integrated into Microsoft's identity. ...why didn't they put Kinect sensors into the Surface... that would have been a differentiator! The only groups that do well seem to be the ones he doesn't bother.

      Microsoft really should either split itself up (it could even do a EMC/VMware type separation) to allow for more innovation, or find a leader that can bring the business into a common fold.

    6. Re:Hell Hath No Fury Like a Shareholder Scorned by JMJimmy · · Score: 1

      Why do you think Win 8 interface was designed for touch? Same reason the xbox interface is designed that way: it works with Kinect - add to that it's a fraction of the cost of a touch capable monitor. I think they've got something there... it's shit... but they've got something.

      Also, Skype + Kinect = interactive teleconferencing, possibilities for 3D, improved background noise reduction, etc.

  3. Add Windows 8 phone by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 1

    Another gamble ups the anti.

    1. Re:Add Windows 8 phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anti? Anti? Really? At least learn to spell in English.

    2. Re:Add Windows 8 phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean "ante"; "anti" means "against".

    3. Re:Add Windows 8 phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he's just anti-ante.

    4. Re:Add Windows 8 phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he did mean "anti"? As in, "Steve Ballmer will really up against it"? No, maybe not...

  4. Tablets were a response to netbooks by Andy+Prough · · Score: 3, Insightful

    not the other way around.

    1. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by duplicitious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True, but Apple is winning, so they get to rewrite history...

    2. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Er? Tablets existed long before netbooks. Since Bill Gates himself was saying that they were the future in 2001 or so. However, Microsoft had poor execution of the concept. For MS, a tablet was a foldable Windows laptop with a touchscreen thrown in as an afterthought. MS never really embraced touch in the OS. They just replaced a mouse for a stylus and called it done. So the MS tablet was more expensive and more cumbersome and did not do more than a laptop did. It was no wonder it was a flop.

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    3. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by david.emery · · Score: 1

      Actually, not true. Apple started work on tablets long before there were Netbooks (and before the iPhone.) The MacBook Air is Apple's response to Netbooks.

      However, there is certainly a bit of serendipity (at least) about the timing of the iPad introduction with respect to the push by PC hardware makers for NetBooks. What both NetBooks and tablets revealed is substantial consumer discontent with conventional (mostly Windows) laptops for many uses.

      On another topic I cited the 'horns effect' - the opposite of the 'halo effect,' saying that Microsoft runs risks with Windows 8 tablets. If Win 8 Tablets (particularly the ARM version that will not run conventional Windows applications) don't meet consumer expectations, the cost to move to another tablet (iPad or Android) is pretty low. And that ill-will could well spread to other Microsoft products, particularly laptops but also phones.

    4. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by shmlco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      " So the MS tablet was more expensive and more cumbersome and did not do more than a laptop did. It was no wonder it was a flop."

      The tablet failed under MS because they saw it as just another platform for "Windows Everywhere". Because it ran Windows and Windows applications it needed an expensive Intel processor, RAM, storage, fans, and so on. Add it all up, and MS's "vision" of a table was a big, heavy, clunky device with 3 hours of battery life.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    5. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, netbooks are still strong within the market that cares for value. If you don't have the cash and don't want the credit you don't get an iPad that can do less. In short, look at the markets outside of US and possibly EU.

    6. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Add it all up, and MS's "vision" of a table was a big, heavy, clunky device with 3 hours of battery life.

      Correction: hardware manufacturers' vision of a tablet was a big, heavy, clunky devices with 3 hours of battery life.

      Now Microsoft is creating their own tablet, and HW manufacturers are complaining that MS is competing with them.

      MS's fundamental strategies were wrong... but they're the same strategies which nearly killed Apple in the early 90s. Things change.

    7. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      correction: hardware manufacturers' vision of a tablet was a big, heavy, clunky devices with 3 hours of battery life.Now Microsoft is creating their own tablet, and HW manufacturers are complaining that MS is competing with them.

      Correction. OEM Hardware manufactures had...and still don't have any control over Microsoft software. So when you look at the parts you missed from original post "Windows and Windows applications it needed an expensive Intel processor, RAM, storage, fans, and so on", you corrected nothing. Lets face it windows wasn't designed for ARM with a large capacitive touch screen. That is Microsoft fault...nobody else.

      Now it is the fault of the hardware manufactures for being so under Microsoft's thumb. They couldn't create their own competing software, but then Microsoft is teaching them the error of their ways ;)

    8. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Under MS, yes. The true predecessor to the modern tablet is the Palm Pilot. It was a tablet by any reasonable definition.

    9. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by plover · · Score: 1

      No, the real flop was in not understanding that touch is a fundamentally different input paradigm. You can't ignore tiny clickable interface items on the screen, then hope to solve any data entry issues by giving the customer a stylus and admonishing him to improve his aim.

      Another failing of Windows Everywhere on tablets was that every Win32 program with a non-touch interface was compatible, and would run on it, even if it sucked from a usability point of view. I think the usability of Microsoft's Tablet OS was so bad it stunted general touch screen acceptance in the marketplace, at least for a while.

      Apple understood this was a fundamental change, and so did this better with iOS than any other touch screen OS provider. Instead of making them blindly OSX compatible, they said "no, put a good touch interface on your app, then we'll approve it before we sell it for you." They made a killer platform, ensured it had a usable interface AND monopolistically profiteered from it at the same time. Way, way smarter than Microsoft.

      --
      John
    10. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2

      Er? Tablets existed long before netbooks

      Did they? I still have a netbook I bought in 1999. 133 MHz Pentium, 96M RAM, 3.2G hard drive. Same physical size as an Asus EEE. Came with Windows 98. Can barely run Firefox 3.6.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    11. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      And the new Netbook designs are in response to the tablets.

      You have netbook a cheap (Under $600) laptop. It has limited use but its price is popular and it is small which people like.
      Then comes the tablet. They added a better optimized OS for low performance hardware and some new UI interfaces to make it more interesting, as well make it smaller.
      The newer Netbooks are adding those UI features trying to one up the tablets, as well with Windows 8 trying to bridge the gap together.
      As well the Ultra Books are coming to add tablet enhancements to standard Laptop designs.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    12. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Replacing a single click stylus with a multi touch display, is one of the bigger enhancements.
      The problem with old tablets was the single click. You are just replacing the mouse/trackpad with a stylus or your fingertip. You don't get any real advantage over one method or the other. Hence people would prefer a small clamshell laptop, because typing on a screen with a single touch was actually very difficult. With Multi-touch displays you have more features such as the Pinch Zoom, and Virtual Keyboards are much easier to type on with multi-touch.

      Also 2001 Wi-Fi wasn't widely available, and battery live was only a few hours. That means people were still tied to their desks with their PC's for anything that requires a network connection.

      Finally, it was a chicken and egg problem. That now microsoft is trying to solve. Where the OS and software is not touch sensitive because there isn't any devices that use it well, and devices will not use the features because the software isn't customized for it. Windows 8 and the Surface is an attempt to get some traction going.

      I have Windows 8 on my Laptop with a multi-touch screen. And I actually really like it, it is fast, and easier to use after you learn the new gestures. Most of the Hate against windows 8 is the same hate against MS, and the hate of learning something new.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    13. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, that's what I think is the largest problem in industry. They get a power budget and stick to it for all their platforms. Same thing is happening to many cellphone manufacturers, they got the idea that you can charge your phone every day (or more often) and they keep adding "features", larger screens and a bunch of radios to maintain that power budget instead of increasing the autonomous time. This happened to laptops as well, they thought that 3 hours was fine, and then maybe 4 hours. It took a long time to make a big jump and give laptops/netbooks better battery time, because everyone wanted just a fast computer to do more stuff.

    14. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, MS is showing that they've learned the lesson that a touch device must have an interface built for a touch device by insisting that *desktops* must have an interface built for a touch device. The more things change...

    15. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      The Intel CPUs didn't prevent manufacturers from creating devices with reasonable battery life. Macbooks have had consistently reasonable battery life for the past 5 years or so.

      windows wasn't designed for ARM with a large capacitive touch screen. That is Microsoft fault...nobody else.

      Microsoft has developed on many architectures and has been in the tablet game a long time. Windows for Pen Computing was back in 1991. Windows NT ran on multiple architectures, then there were ultra-low power Windows CE devices. I had one of the things back in 2000. Ran off AA batteries and had a pen. Wireless tech wasn't good enough yet and flash memory was very expensive. It was basically a clunky PDA you needed to tether and convert data for, rather than a portable computer, and forget multimedia. The manufacturer was stupid enough to have it run from disposable batteries, it couldn't use rechargables, and woudln't run from a wall socket. So much bad hardware.

      Windows hardware manufacturers just didn't see the tablet market as hot. They'd been dabbling in it for two decades, producing crappy machines, Intel or not, even when MS created lots of software for lots of different architectures.

      Finally Microsoft is producing something which doesn't suck.

    16. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that MS with all their money could not make manufacturers build a tablet the way they wanted? The iPad was not Apple's first attempt since Jobs came back. The word is that Apple first worked on the iPad then shelved it for the iPhone before returning to it. Also Apple tried to use Intel but found their processors too hot and power hungry and thus switched to ARM. MS could have done that . . . but they did not. MS was too fractured in their efforts to fight Netscape then Google then Sony then Apple to focus on making their tablet a success.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    17. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Also Apple tried to use Intel but found their processors too hot and power hungry and thus switched to ARM. MS could have done that . . . but they did not.

      WinCE has been running on ARM, MIPS, and SuperH for over a decade.

    18. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      But Windows Tablet Edition (TM) ran only on x86. Again everything had to be "Windows".

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    19. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by KevCo · · Score: 1

      And the Palm Pilot was preceded by the Newton. Which was bigger and more reasonably defined as a tablet.

    20. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      WinCE has been running on ARM, MIPS, and SuperH for over a decade.

      Yeah, and x86. And the only one of those platforms that you can get any binaries for in recent editions is ARM. Thank goodness for Android. Oh wait, we still have NDK use. Fail, fail.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Did they? I still have a netbook I bought in 1999. 133 MHz Pentium, 96M RAM, 3.2G hard drive. Same physical size as an Asus EEE. Came with Windows 98. Can barely run Firefox 3.6.

      Well, you're only a decade late. Or if you prefer, the GRiDPad 2390 (AKA "Zoomer") of 1993, which was basically a size-reduced version of the 1910, and which actually came with a GUI OS (PC-GEOS). It's also the original platform for the "Graffiti" handwriting recognition system that was later used with Palm OS, though that's not what shipped with the Zoomer. You can backload the 2390's OS on the 1910, you only have to change the video driver.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but the Palm Pilot was the first popular PDA/"Tablet". The Newton was an utter embarrassment and failure.

      And if you only care about who was first, you're going to have to go back a bit further to something like the GRiDPad, which was manufactured by Samsung by the way.

    23. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by xhrit · · Score: 1

      I am not sure that is correct. I owned a device sold as a 'tablet' in 2001; a SonicBLUE Progear w/ 400 MHZ Transmeta Crusoe that ran a custom Linux distro. It was for all intents and purposes functionally identical to the concept of a modern tablet, albeit a very expensive one.

      Contrast that to devices sold as 'netbooks', which were not generally available until ~2007. Prior to that there were no subcompact laptops comparable to modern netbooks at any price point.

    24. Re:Tablets were a response to netbooks by plover · · Score: 1

      That was exactly my observation as well.

      The saddest thing is that I know several Microsoft developers. Brilliant, all of them. The local guys have some of the best software engineering processes I have ever seen, and produce some of the highest quality software out there. But what they don't have is leadership giving them good products to build, and they appear to have been saddled with a collection of usability folks crippled by ADHD, who are obviously self medicating their way through life with kilograms of crack, and who watch reruns of Teletubbies and Robot Chicken non-stop while designing.

      One of the guys I know was on the Sync team (the Sync car navigation and electronics system, not the folders-talk-to-databases Sync thing) so I was happy to buy a car with their package installed. In-car electronics have sucked for a long time, especially car stereo interfaces, so I see the dashboard computer as the Next Big Thing. And this product had every chance to become the iPhone of vehicles, to dominate the market because there is simply no decent competition out there. Yet the interface they came out with is still very much rooted in the FILE / EDIT / HELP menu paradigm, and again showed they Just Don't Get It when it comes to users. In case you're wondering, here's the complete set of appropriate uses for a touch screen in a moving car: {}. I can only suspect some brilliant corner office manager must have said "it's got a touch screen, put everything on it just like on my PC. And my tablet. And my Windows Phone. And do something like an app-store. And if someone complains, we'll disable street address entry while the car is moving for 'safety', that ought to show them we care."

      I guess I should take back my earlier comment: at least Robot Chicken has a sense of style to it. Sync, on the other hand, is ... blue.

      --
      John
  5. Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    when he eventually goes, it will be the best thing ever to happen to the computer industry.

    1. Re:Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure about that? I think the best thing to ever happen to the computer industry is when Steve Jobs kicked the bucket. Or perhaps when Larry Ellison dies.

    2. Re:Good riddance by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      I second getting rid of Ellison.

      Can I get a third?

    3. Re:Good riddance by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      I hate to see him leave. Having Ballmer drag Microsoft into the toilet is a good thing. If they got someone new who could revitalize MS then they go back to crushing innovation under their heel. Failure at Microsoft is good for the computer industry.

    4. Re:Good riddance by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      Larry Ellison, one of my favorite people. I hold him up as a shining example of the ultimate blend of sinister and arrogant of all time. One of my favorite jokes ever is the one where the question is "What's the difference between God and Larry Ellison?" and the answer is "God doesn't think he's Larry Ellison." It's old but I still like it.

    5. Re:Good riddance by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      Failure at Microsoft is good for the computer industry.

      I'm not so sure.

      Microsoft did a number of evil things and deserve the public spanking that they're getting. That said, they also created a long, huge shadow for Linux to develop in: the x86 marketplace. Here was this huge, open hardware platform of relatively homogeneous machines subsidized by the mass market to ridiculously low cost.

      Something like Linux won't develop on iOS, nor the now-closed MS hardware, nor most of the Android phones sold by major retailers - they're all closed and while it's possible to hack around them, you have to (ahem) hack around them and the boot lockers get better each and every year.

      But on the open platform of the PC, Linux flourished and has prospered. Linux has become the "go-to" platform for low cost, high-volume web services, and dominates the low end as well (EG: Android devices) but all of the early development was on cheap, widely available hardware made available because of Wintel.

      In order to foster innovations like this, we *need* an open platform, and so far, only Microsoft's classical 3rd party vendor model has provided that. When that dies, so too does a host of possibilities.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    6. Re:Good riddance by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Something like Linux won't develop ... nor most of the Android phones sold by major retailers - they're all closed and while it's possible to hack around them, you have to (ahem) hack around them and the boot lockers get better each and every year.

      Something like Linux IS developing on most Android phones - cyanogenmod and its ilk. Yes bootloaders are getting better - earlier one needed to hack. Now Samsung and HTC have an official policy of open bootloaders. Sony doesn't, as far as I know, but hackers have always broken their bootloaders pretty quickly. Motorola was the only one with "un-hackable" bootloaders for some phones, but it has been bought by Google - and since then not many phones have been released but one "developer-oriented" phone has been released with explicit open-bootloader policy.

      As far as Android goes, your point is completely false.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  6. Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by bernywork · · Score: 2

    They could have sold a few million of those things, everyone was raving about it, and then they killed it stone dead. Even though it had a MS badge on it, I was willing to give it a go.

    I have a feeling that Steve Balmer is out of touch, or maybe I am, I don't know.

    --
    Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
    1. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Bill Gates killed the Courier because it had no email ?! "Gates' response by explaining that Microsoft makes billions from Exchange, and so a product with no e-mail is a problem - a machine that doesn't do e-mail isn't going to help shift Exchange licenses."

      http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/11/killing-courier-the-right-decision-maybe-not-the-right-reasons/
      http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20128013-75/the-inside-story-of-how-microsoft-killed-its-courier-tablet/

      Microsoft has no vision - they are just another "me too" company and most people don't care. Apple is _perceived_ as being "first", "better", "easier". Mass market sex appeal is what Apple's marketing dept. has learned in spades; Microsoft still struggles to understand this simple concept.

    2. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple *WAS* perceived as being first/better/easier. Welcome to 2013 where Apple takes a nose-dive.

      Patent battles, Siri, Google Maps, "Me Too" iPhone 5, "Me Too" 7 inch tablet, etc.

      How many Mini's did they sell? Exactly. No one knows. If it was another run-away launch, we'd have exact numbers.

    3. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by petsounds · · Score: 2

      Totally agree. It's the first tablet I was excited about, and the first really breakout, high-concept product from Microsoft I think...I've ever seen. But I guess it couldn't survive in a company culture that's built on enterprise profits. Bill had an Apple-esque product on his hand and he didn't get it. But that was the classic difference between Steve and him.

    4. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't Acer try the same thing with the dual screen Iconia? I don't think they sold very well.

      Now that Windows 8 is here, perhaps they should give it another shot.

    5. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      The mini has only been out less than a week. I agree that it's just a me too device. I personally can't see spending that kind of money on a iPad mini. When I can get an iPad 2 for only $70 more.

      Of course, I sold my iPad 1 so I could get a nexus 7. The 7 is great, perfect form factor for what I want to use it for. (Reading, and playing games). The iPad is also a great form factor, but it's better for watching videos on. A little big for comfortable reading.

    6. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by plover · · Score: 1

      No, Apple has always been a "me next" company. They aren't ever first. They look at what others innovated, and said "if we were to do that way better, how would we really do it right? They learned from every single mistake Microsoft made with the Tablet OS and the WInCE phones.

      Maybe I should amend that. Apple is frequently the first to do something very well.

      --
      John
    7. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I bought a Mac Mini and I love it.

    8. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably too late now. Too much competition. Though with the exception of a mediocre Samsung Note 10.1 there still no tablets with a good pen support out there, so basically content creation market is up for grabs. But I bet Balmer would bludgeon himself to death with the chair before admitting a mistake.

    9. Re:Why the F... don't the bring back the courier? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      The courier never existed, it was a classic windows diversion "Don't buy an iPad, look at this awesome thing we are going to bring out really soon, honest!" It never would have worked for hundreds of reasons anyway...

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
  7. Pun parse fail by tepples · · Score: 2

    "Ante" means before; "anti" means against. To "up the ante" is to raise the stakes in poker. I take it you were trying to make a pun on "anti", but I'm having trouble piecing it together.

    1. Re:Pun parse fail by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      And "auntie" is his mother's sister.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Pun parse fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because his father's sister isn't his auntie.

    3. Re:Pun parse fail by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      and an ant, he carried a leaf all the way home

    4. Re:Pun parse fail by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I bet you're fun at parties...

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Pun parse fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably not as much as someone who spouts tired quips such as "I bet you're fun at parties" to cover for his own idiocy. I'm a little bit too old to attend your frat-boy parties, bro.

    6. Re:Pun parse fail by plover · · Score: 1

      Q: What's worse than ants in your pants?

      A: Uncles.

      --
      John
    7. Re:Pun parse fail by Clueless+Moron · · Score: 1

      I object to my aunt raising the stakes in poker. I'm anti-aunti-ante.

  8. Netbooks by romanval · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Netbooks were started by ASUS and their peers as an 'appliance' laptop- They were Linux based and only cost a few hundred bucks. Microsoft didn't try to get into it until it was posing as a threat to Windows!

    1. Re:Netbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Microsoft decide to kill it by publicly proclaiming that Windows XP will not have long term support, and urging users to upgrade to Windows Vista or 7. Windows XP being the most used OS on netbook.

    2. Re:Netbooks by luther349 · · Score: 1

      they went to Microsoft and said we want to put xp on those and they told them to go to hell you know was not the latest greatest hardware that was back when they where using a 900mhz celeron. so they put linux on them and despite being non windows they where selling like mad. then of course the atom released sales rose more and Microsoft walked back in the picture waving lots of bribe money saying you should only sell these with windows.

    3. Re:Netbooks by s.petry · · Score: 2

      The part of the story missing is how they got in to that game, and in fact many others. It was not (and traditionally this is true) that Microsoft tried to out-do people with technology, it was that they tried to sue the shit out of competition. This is "still" their primary business model. Advertise, FUD, and lawyers. This old Apple commercial nailed a fundamental problem with Microsoft.

      Look, to be honest it worked for a long time. But eventually, consumers start turning on douche bag companies. It shows in their products, it shows in their services. Talk to anyone, they may "Use" the products, but they don't like the company or the business practices. Given an alternative, everyone jumps to a new brand. If MS sold Xbox for profit, how many people would own one. If they didn't pay companies to run exclusively on Windows, people would jump ship as Quickbooks started working on MacOS. They wheel and deal to lock in products and people to their OS, and people don't like it. The game is old, people have been catching on.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    4. Re:Netbooks by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      they went to Microsoft and said we want to put xp on those and they told them to go to hell you know was not the latest greatest hardware that was back when they where using a 900mhz celeron. so they put linux on them and despite being non windows they where selling like mad. then of course the atom released sales rose more and Microsoft walked back in the picture waving lots of bribe money saying you should only sell these with windows.

      And a crippled version of Windows (at first) as well, with a price increase over what they had before.

      My cousin bought a netbook, and replaced it with an iPad. He gave the netbook to my dad who used it for a while; it was okay - but my cousin had upgraded it from Windows 7 Starter to Windows 7 Professional (or Ultimate, can't remember). Something happened (I think the hard drive died, IIRC) and I had to reinstall the system - only I didn't have Win7; so we put Kubuntu on it. It's worked great since - even better than when it had Windows 7 on it.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    5. Re:Netbooks by luther349 · · Score: 1

      i don't think my tablet will ever replace my netbook android is nice but it still cant replace a full os. if you like kubuntu you should give bidhi linux a spin the e17 wm is epic and nobody seems to care it stomps everything else flat. does composting without the need of any opengl. and not the lame softwhere opengl ubuntu uses that eats up the cpu.

    6. Re:Netbooks by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      i don't think my tablet will ever replace my netbook android is nice but it still cant replace a full os. if you like kubuntu you should give bidhi linux a spin the e17 wm is epic and nobody seems to care it stomps everything else flat. does composting without the need of any opengl. and not the lame softwhere opengl ubuntu uses that eats up the cpu.

      Well, I don't think e17 would work for my dad. KDE is fine - it's similar enough to what he was use to that he made the transition without a problem. But Enlightenment would be pushing it - he barely uses a computer - email, documents, skype, and a couple others things is about as much as he can handle.

      For me, I use to use Enlighmentment - about a decade ago. Then I moved to KDE and haven't really looked back. Of course, most of my systems don't use software opengl, and I find Qt a delight to program with.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    7. Re:Netbooks by luther349 · · Score: 1

      Enlighmentment has came a long way you should give it a look. to me its surpassed everyone. bodhi uses it.

  9. Who decided it was a flop already? by NuAngel · · Score: 2
    4 million Windows 8 "upgrades" in just the first weekend - doesn't count any of the OEM or retail sales, just the online upgrade portal.

    I don't think Windows 8 is the big flop anti-Microsoft folks are hoping it will be. It's different. But so was Windows 95 when the Start Menu was introduced. My Surface RT and I will be here if you need us.

    1. Re:Who decided it was a flop already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFA didn't decide that it was a flop already, so what are you talking about?

    2. Re:Who decided it was a flop already? by tuppe666 · · Score: 4, Informative

      4 million Windows 8 "upgrades" in just the first weekend - doesn't count any of the OEM or retail sales, just the online upgrade portal.

      Is that a lot!? ...seems like a tiny number to me considering the Desktop maketplace is 1.6Billion last time I looked. Android activates 1.3million users daily, and that's a phone OS. I don't see large queues of people like I do for say the iPhone...or like there used to be for say Windows95.

      Lets be honest 4million isn't all that many.

    3. Re:Who decided it was a flop already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the hell would you line up for something that you can order and get online? That's what I never understood. Even with in-store pickup, it should be stupidly fast.

      Also, isn't 4 million roughly the same amount of people preordering said phone?

    4. Re:Who decided it was a flop already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 8 presales were greater than $800,000,000. Add in another $300,000,000 in presales for just upgrade versions and then four million more copies sold in the first three days of release.

    5. Re:Who decided it was a flop already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere close to 60% of those 4 million are developers setting up their Windows 8 test environment so they can make sure their software doesn't die a horrible death on the new OS, and the remaining 40% are IT people upgrading one sacrificial system so they can evaluate the new OS and make upgrade/don't upgrade recommendations to management.

    6. Re:Who decided it was a flop already? by gtirloni · · Score: 1

      No, it was just a subtle suggestion that we picked up because we are so good readers. Right.

      --
      none
  10. Is this really a market leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Being a Linux/BSD guy, I gave Windows a try. Recently installed Windows 2012 Server.

    It can't even show the nice folder view with picture previews. Just look at kde, this works out of the box.
    No meaningful shell.
    No easy out of the box way to compile software. Need to install DevStudio monstrosity or cygwin, linux environment.
    Friends keep complaining that Windows keeps freezing while copying large files over the network.

    Ubuntu IMO is way more usable as it is today. But of course Windows is well entrenched with generations seeing nothing but Windows, ever.

    Given all these issues with Windows and how Android/iPhone are dominant on mobile market, I would say "No way, Jose!". Possible, but completely improbable.

    1. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recently built a Windows PC because I knew I'd have to do it eventually for gaming and I didn't want to be stuck with Windows 8 when I did. Windows 7 is actually a fairly decent operating system, though I wouldn't want to use it every day.

    2. Re:Is this really a market leader? by ACalcutt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In server 2012 the picture preview is available, its just not installed by default. I am pretty sure its part of the 'desktop experience' feature. My question is, why would you even want that on a server?

    3. Re:Is this really a market leader? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      understand that you're coming from a position of ignorance and frankly, it shows!

      Windows may not be as good as the alternatives in many respects, but its not totally useless. It has a very capable shell - Powershell, you can install all manner of IDEs without the monstrosity that is visual studio (yeah, it has bloated a lot), but there's code:blocks, eclipse, qt's suite, intel's compiler even. It can display folders with preview pictures - in many different styles, like Large icons, medium or small icons, or tiles etc.

      So... if you're going to give it a go, you have to give it a proper chance. Your post is like a Windows user installing Linux and complaining there's no way to map network drive letters.

    4. Re:Is this really a market leader? by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      I recently built a Windows PC because I knew I'd have to do it eventually for gaming

      I don't think you noticed their is a revolution in gaming, and Microsoft is not part of it. Cross Platform games is where the money is.

    5. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you noticed their is a revolution in gaming, and Microsoft is not part of it. Cross Platform games is where the money is.

      That might be great. If most of my existing games weren't closed-source x86 Windows programs.

      A lot of them run on Wine, but they certainly won't run on anything non-x86 at anywhere near the same speed.

    6. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I recently built a Windows PC because I knew I'd have to do it eventually for gaming

      I don't think you noticed their is a revolution in gaming, and Microsoft is not part of it. Cross Platform games is where the money is.

      LOL

    7. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      So that students can convert their free Server 2012 license (from Dreamspark) into a usable, full-blown desktop OS?

      It's what I've done, and I sure am glad Microsoft keeps leaving that ability in their server OS, no matter how incongruous it might seem at first glance.

    8. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      You're complaining Visual Studio is bloated and them recommend Eclipse?

      I just install a minimal install of VS with most options turned off and the thing's just fine. It's also lightning quick, unlike Eclipse's lumbering demeanor, and its UI is a lot more flexible than Eclipse's.

    9. Re:Is this really a market leader? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It can't even show the nice folder view with picture previews. Just look at kde, this works out of the box.

      It has that, but it's disabled by default in server editions, as many other things that you don't really need on the server. If you are one of those people who insist on using a server edition for your personal desktop, why complain that it doesn't work exactly as you want by default? Win7 or Win8 would do that out of the box.

      No meaningful shell.

      "Meaningful" is a nonsensical word in this context. Anyway, there's PowerShell out of the box.

      No easy out of the box way to compile software. Need to install DevStudio monstrosity or cygwin, linux environment.

      Actually, yes, it does have a way to compile software out of the box - look for csc.exe in C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework. It doesn't have a way to compile C or C++ out of the box, I'll give you that. Does every desktop machine need it, though?

    10. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Windows 8] can display folders

      How?! If I can't figure out how to navigate around in Windows 8 or open up a command shell after several minutes of screwing around with it on a couple different laptops in Fry's, why would I want it? I couldn't find a Start button, Run line, Program Menu, nor Windows Explorer. Obviously there has to be a way to get to these things since all Microsoft can do anymore is hang different interfaces on Windows 2000 and try to charge people for it again and again, but the fact that the most commonly used functions on a windows machine have been hidden somewhere is nothing but shitty UI design.

    11. Re:Is this really a market leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows key -> powershell

      Seriously, if you didn't know about the Windows key, you probably shouldn't be messing around in a command shell. I use Rainmeter and Launchy so I don't miss the start menu in Windows 8 at all.

    12. Re:Is this really a market leader? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      have you seen VS2012? I mean I use VS2010 every day and I just had to install the SQL server 2008r2 components to make it view sql files as text!!!

      That's a bit bloated, it may appear fast but if you look at how much RAM it's using, and all the components its loading you'll see its just as bloated as Eclipse... which is admittedly Java so I agree is bloated crap. Eclipse works just as fast as VS nowadays, and I know, I run both - though I do run eclipse as a PHP and C++ IDE, not Java.

      The point though, they're just as bad as each other nowadays. The days of fast and slim VC6 are well gone.

    13. Re:Is this really a market leader? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      ha ha ha, now is the time for linux on the desktop!

  11. I'm not so sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As we all heard on a near-daily basis during the recent Presidential election, "you can't beat somebody with nobody". There just isn't a lot of senior executive talent out there who would give board members the confidence that they could run Microsoft. It would have to be a CEO, not a techie, but that CEO would have to have deep understanding and appreciation (!) of several very different technical markets, and of Microsoft's offerings in these areas. Just getting a senior manager from Oracle or Google probably wouldn't make a lot of sense. I think it would be probably an SVP within Microsoft (but can they run the whole ship?), or perhaps an ex-Softie like Paul Maritz.

  12. I am convinced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't need any sort of tablet or pad, thank you very much. While everyone with low-mileage brains sits around playing 'Angry Birds In The Fourth Dimension' or whatever game is popular now, I am writing books.

    But as far as Windows vs OSX vs Linux vs Unix vs iOS vs ?, I have no interest in that. Just so long as it has a text editor I am fine.

    1. Re:I am convinced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I love how you say you're writing books as if you're somehow doing something inherently compelling and useful to society, while for all we know you could be crafting 10,000 page tomes dedicated to the secret relationship Riker and Picard have during away missions or, even worse, writing a 3-novel "cycle" about Newton, Leibniz and royal society of the 1600s.

  13. Too late... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Mr. Ballmer should have been sent packing after the Vista debacle. He should have been sent packing after the iPod/iPhone/iPad cleaned Microsoft's clock in the mobile world while Microsoft just sat on its collective monopoly-enhanced fat ass.

    .
    At this point, I doubt if Microsoft's Board of Directors (who are chartered with looking out for shareholder interests) are any less to blame than Mr. Ballmer.

    Maybe the shareholders should demand significant fresh blood in Microsoft's Board of Directors, since the BoD has allowed to continue, even fostered, the Ballmer problem far longer than they should have.

    1. Re:Too late... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      MS has been too slow to react. J. Allard reviewed MS' answer to the iPod in 2003 and he concluded it was a terrible product. 3 years later the Zune came out but it was so far behind and the market was shifting to smart phones and not MP3 players as the next hot thing.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:Too late... by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      I don't know how the parent can be rated Insightful. The Vista debacle, with the exception of the new user access controls, was caused by OEMs. They didn't believe in Microsoft's release dates and weren't even close to having Vista drivers ready. As a result, upgrades failed, users couldn't connect to their peripherals or functionality was missing, etc.

      Under the covers, Windows 7 is essentially Vista SP1.

    3. Re:Too late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does MS have to be in the phone business?? They sell business software to businesses. They make a ton of money doing it. Everything else is a distraction for them.

    4. Re:Too late... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      The Vista debacle, with the exception of the new user access controls, was caused by OEMs. They didn't believe in Microsoft's release dates and weren't even close to having Vista drivers ready.

      If the OEM support was not there, why did Microsoft release an OS that had, as you say, little driver support? Microsoft should have known that a Windows OS release with little driver support is not going to be successful. Why didn't Microsoft use some of its multi-billion cash hoard to give the OEMs an incentive to finish the drivers in time, or even to help the OEMs to write the drivers? Also problematic for Windows Vista was its very high system resource requirements, and the UACs (which you mention), the blame for both of which rightly fell into Microsoft's lap.

      Sorry, the Windows Vista debacle was caused my Microsoft management decisions. Microsoft had full control over Windows Vista's release date, and Microsoft management chose to release an OS that had little driver support, required very high levels of system resources and continually annoyed its users.

      Under the covers, Windows 7 is essentially Vista SP1

      Or worded differently, under the covers, Windows Vista SP1 is the version between Windows Vista and Windows 7. But so what? The problem with Windows Vista was Microsoft management's decision to release a sub-standard OS. Windows Vista SP1 is not relevant to the poor management decisions made by Mr. Ballmer during the release of Windows Vista.

    5. Re:Too late... by Raenex · · Score: 1

      with the exception of the new user access controls

      Which were half the problem. The other half being Microsoft let themselves be bullied by hardware vendors into certifying hardware that Vista was shit on. Face it, Vista was a debacle, and they fixed it with Windows 7. That it was fixable doesn't mean it wasn't a debacle.

  14. Discontinued by tepples · · Score: 2

    And several companies have since discontinued production of netbooks. So now what's recommended for people who want to run PC applications that aren't very demanding of CPU speed on a device that fits in a messenger bag? Or are there so few people in that situation that they're an edge case not worth serving?

    1. Re:Discontinued by jader3rd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So now what's recommended for people who want to run PC applications that aren't very demanding of CPU speed on a device that fits in a messenger bag? Or are there so few people in that situation that they're an edge case not worth serving?

      Every time I saw a netbook it was when someone handed it to me, asking me to make it faster. I told them it was a netbook and that it wasn't built to be fast, and that there was little I could do. I then asked them why they got it and they said that they wanted a cheap laptop. So you have a generation of consumers who bought a netbook, realized that they didn't have patience for it, and now will make sure they will get a laptop that they don't need to be patient with.

    2. Re:Discontinued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any company with a stake in the success of app stores is trying very hard to convince the world of the latter. My philosophy is "to hell with them". I'd sooner use a full-size laptop than some crippled touchscreen keyboard-less ARM-encumbered proprietary can't-run-arbitrary-programs piece of junk like an ipad or surface.

    3. Re:Discontinued by romanval · · Score: 2

      Well, Google is rebooting the 'laptop appliance' concept with the ChromeBook (a $250 ARM cpu'd laptop). It'll work well for people who's entire computing world can fit within a web browser.

    4. Re:Discontinued by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      if you want to buy a sub 300 bucks netbook, buy one.
      major manufacturers still have them in stores(you can buy roughly the same thing from ~10+ different brands).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:Discontinued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > And several companies have since discontinued production of netbooks

      Netbooks started out as cheap DVD player screens, Flash memory and Linux and were really cheap. With Linux they were fast enough for internet, email, light word processing and spreadsheet (Abiword and Gnumeric or KOffice) and small enogh to carry everywhere. At the time laptops were significantly more.

      When MS noticed them they leaned on the OEMs, resurrected XP and forced the specs to be 10 inch screens, faster CPUs, and hard disks. This pushed the prices up and meantime laptop prices were dropping due to volume. Soon 13inch laptops were not significantly more expensive than the now pricier netbooks. With only the advantage of portability sales fell until the maker dropped them as no longer profitable.

      If the cold dead hand of Microsoft hadn't touched the OEMs then netbooks may still be viable. But the 10inch ultra portable market moved to ARM, tablets, iOS and Android. Microsoft's dead hand has now produced WOA, Windows RT in order to kill off OEMs making Android or Linux tablets. It has already worked for HP WebOS.

    6. Re:Discontinued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Every time I saw a netbook it was when someone handed it to me, asking me to make it faster.

      That would be with XP then, possibly with Office. When running Linux with Abiword, Gnumeric, Koffice or even OpenOffice they are, in my experience, adequatly fast.

    7. Re:Discontinued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they don't. I haven't seen a single netbook on sale in the US since I bought my ASUS. I've looked online and in shops and it's hard to find anything for that price. Plus, a genuine netbook is going to be well under $300. For $300 you can get a cheap laptop, not the same thing.

    8. Re:Discontinued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  15. Gamble? by bfandreas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The risk if they fail isn't actually that high. A lot of companies and institutions have just finished/started phasing out XP for 7. So I don't think MS planned to sell a lot of licenses to those. The real clever thing is the fusion of laptop and notebook that is yet to come(Windows RT will propably be a distant third; people are propably already locked in Google Play and iTunes) and that is a smart move.

    The next gen laptop will resemle the Transformer line of Asus. iPad 3 owners look up whenever I unpack my Prime. Imagining this with a 13" screen and an I7 actually makes me happy in the pants.

    I wonder how long those go on one charge. The Prime lasts for a day(if you include a humon sleep cycle and the keyboard/battery thing).

    Funfact: hoking up a tablet to an LCD projector and controlling the presentation with a PS3 DualShock controller does turn a couple of heads. Especially when "accidently" activating Sonic in the down-time. Everybody likes Sonic.

    I think an OS that is also controllable on a touch screen is a smart move. But I won't use that particular feature on my desktop. My arms aren't that long and watching Star Trek does require very little interaction. And there always are the perils of Cat Interference.

    --
    20 minutes into the future
    1. Re:Gamble? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally have a cheapo laptop with good external USB keyboard as I have to type a lot. What I would need is some type of "slate" which is mostly sitting on my desk (most of the "mobiles" are desktops anyway) just to reduce the Z-axis (distance to screen). It is unbelievable how the keyboard quality has decreased in 10 years.

    2. Re:Gamble? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPad 3 owners look up whenever I unpack my Prime.

      I look up when a garbage truck backs up towards my Porsche, too.

      The trouble with Microsoft products under Ballmer isn't that they don't make people pay attention, it's that the attention consists of an incredulous expression and a muttered, "Dear God, what is that thing?!" under the observer's breath.

  16. maybe they'll "pull a Jobs?" by v1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    out with the Ballmer, in with the "interim CEO" bill gates? would be interesting to see what he does with the company now that he's become more of a philanthropist. Worked for Apple, and we know how MS loves to ... innovate.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:maybe they'll "pull a Jobs?" by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Gates doesn't want any part of that I'd imagine. He seems to have embraced philanthropy pretty strongly, and he's be walking into a possibly unwinnable war.

    2. Re:maybe they'll "pull a Jobs?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know; all through Gates' biography are bits and pieces hinting (with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the face) that he also loves a challenge, even seemingly insurmountable ones.

      I do find myself laughing at the idea of MS doing a 'Coke 2' switch, even if it isn't planned. Gates...one of the most hated men in technology at the time...steps out for a few years, lets Ballmer screw it up to the point where him coming back is met with angelic choruses and doves and bottomless praise.

    3. Re:maybe they'll "pull a Jobs?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't aware that Steve Jobs was ever a philanthropist. In fact, I'm pretty sure he was a greedy bastard who never donated to anything, not even toward his own daughter's wellbeing.

      People love to say that Microsoft rips off Apple, but the opposite is actually true. Microsoft was founded and started developing software before Apple. Apple ripped off Microsoft by developing software too.

    4. Re:maybe they'll "pull a Jobs?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It worked for Apple because the returning interim CEO was Steve Jobs.

      Bill Gates is no Steve Jobs

    5. Re:maybe they'll "pull a Jobs?" by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Not to mention many of the evil things Microsoft did came from the Gates era anyway (my favorite is the MS OS/2 2.0 fiasco, BTW).

  17. Surface = Zune XL by KrazyDave · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Interesting product, but like the Zune it will not connect with enough consumers, corporate or otherwise. That, plus W8 is awful. MS should have spent resources making 7 viable instead of scrapping everything for the "tiles." Ugh.

    --
    www.chihuahuarescue.com- Help to end dog abuse, abandonment and cruelty
    1. Re:Surface = Zune XL by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      MS should have spent resources making 7 viable

      That's what W8 is. Tablets require a better development stack to abstract out different hardwares, a touch-friendly interface (you're much-hated tiles), and stripped down internals. Isn't that basically what W8 is?

    2. Re:Surface = Zune XL by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      Zune was nice hardware and a great service that was just too late to the market. Surface is great hardware that works really well with Win8. It's not yet too late as tablets will be around for quite a while. So the analogy to Zune just doesn't work.

    3. Re:Surface = Zune XL by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      I'm much hated tiles...?

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Surface = Zune XL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Sorry to break it to you.

    5. Re:Surface = Zune XL by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 2

      I've been using Windows 8 for a few days now, and it's pretty much Windows 7 with a tablet like interface and a desktop interface. I actually like it. I can have icons for programs I use in the metro ui, or I can just click on the destop button, and have a desktop. Would you care to explain what is awful about W8? Just curious what you are seeing, that I'm not?
      I'm running W8 on a lenovo Ideapad, it's quite zippy, but I expect that from an i5 and 6 gigs for ram? No I didn't purchase it, it was bought for me by my company. It's a pretty decent OS, and it's a lot better than unity on ubuntu.

    6. Re:Surface = Zune XL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it come in Brown?

  18. Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by tuppe666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I sure there are a whole host of reasons why Ballmer should go, but they are not covered in this irrelevant Apple vs Microsoft pissing contest. Here is the thing Google is winning mobile, yet is mentioned nowhere in the article. Apple are losing there grip on mobile as we speak...the numbers quoted in the article sound impressive, but there market share is shrinking 23.1% to 14.9% for smartphones...and the iPad only occupies 50.4% of the tablet market. Its in trouble, and in context of this article its share price is dropping because of its poor results, ironically the same results quoted in the article. Microsoft do need a compelling mobile offering, but nothing in the article says anything about what is happening in the current Mobile market place.

    1. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by shmlco · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Umm... did you see that Apple's stock price is back up after their announcement with China Telecom?

      Incidentally, "Google" isn't winning there. Half of the "Android" tablets are Kindles, where Amazon has forked Android, slapped on a new interface, and stripped it of all of Google's apps and Play access. And get back to me after Christmas regarding tablet sales. Speaking of which...

      "Asked if they'd rather receive a PC or a tablet as a holiday gift, 59% of respondents in a PriceGrabber survey opted for the tablet, the price comparison shopping site said."

      "When asked which tablet or tablets they wanted, 63% of respondents said they want an iPad 3 or an iPad 4, while 24% said they're hoping for an iPad mini. However, it's not all about Apple. Twenty-two percent of those surveyed said they would like a Samsung Galaxy Note Tab while 20% said they are hoping for an Amazon Kindle Fire HD, according to PriceGrabber."

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why does anyone think 1 company can supply a whole market with devices?? It's a physically impossible task!
      Apple market share in any market will always be lower because they make actual machines not software. Sony never had 90% of the television market, FORD never 90% of the car market. Monopolies are unnatural! Yet google and MS run around like this is the most natural position for a company.

      It's all skewered. People think apple is the "one off" company but in reality it's Microsoft and Google. They have unnatural monopolistic control of their industries and people go in like this is normal. It's healthy for 1 company to have 10% of the market Nd not 70% ! Monopolistic control is bad for consumers, bad for innovation and ultimately kills companies who grow fat off the
      Profits and never optimise and prepare for the future.

      The world really is back to front nowadays.. Nuts

    3. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by multi+io · · Score: 2

      Umm... did you see that Apple's stock price is back up after their announcement with China Telecom?

      Incidentally, "Google" isn't winning there. Half of the "Android" tablets are Kindles, where Amazon has forked Android, slapped on a new interface, and stripped it of all of Google's apps and Play access.

      Well, they can run the same Android apps, which makes the platform as a whole more attractive to developers. So the Kindle Fire's success isn't all bad news for Google.

    4. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by kenorland · · Score: 1

      Umm... did you see that Apple's stock price is back up after their announcement with China Telecom?

      Well, and next you're going to tell us that high real estate prices mean that homes are a great value. I think we saw how well that worked out.

    5. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Umm... did you see that Apple's stock price is back up after their announcement with China Telecom?

      No I have seen Apples market share drop from a high of 700 to 550 in less than two months. Ironically in the context of this Article Apple have been forced out of China smartphone top 5 Yulong.

      Think about it Yulong.

    6. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That all sounds great, until you realize your comment leaves most relevant info out of course.

      Apple never really had a grip on mobile in terms of market share. They trailed RIM for quite some time, I believe they VERY briefly took the lead, and then Android took over. Here are the numbers shareholders care about: Apple DESTROYS the rest of the industry in terms of margins, and easily dominates the PROFIT share of the industry, and Apple's sales continue to increase, just not as fast as the market.

      For the tablet market, again, a big chunk of that is very low cost devices, many of which run Amazon's bastardized version of Android, that Apple has chosen not to compete with. Which sounds an awful lot like the PC industry to me. Once again, Apple brings in the highest margins and dominates profit share in the industry.

      Shareholders are a fickle bunch. If you actually believe that the share price of a company accurately reflects its performance 100% of the time, you are a very naive person and I have a bridge to sell you. Facebook is a perfect example of this (but in reverse). By the way, I also believe Microsoft is undervalued.

      My prediction: Google will dominate the market share of the smartphone industry in the future and probably increase their share even further. Apple's sales will continue to grow, they will remain the most profitable smart phone maker, but their market share will decrease. Both companies make great products, and neither one is in "trouble", and both have bright futures.

    7. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Apple DESTROYS the rest of the industry in terms of margins, and easily dominates the PROFIT share of the industry, and Apple's sales continue to increase, just not as fast as the market.

      Apple USED to make a good deal of loose change with its massive *mark-ups*, and made vast profits [there is no such thing as profit share ;)], but new markets offer opportunities for companies that take advantage, and Apple has done it more than once, but this isn't that market any more. The smartphone is mature, people aren't willing to pay a premium for device with arguably worse hardware and software...and this is reflected by Android outselling Apple 5:1. Its looking to be happening even quicker with tablets :)

      Apple is down to 14.9% and loosing relevance as Android grabs all the developers; customers. Pretending that Apple is relevant because its poor value to its customers is irrelevant, as will Apple be if it doesn't handle the change in markets successfully. Apple has shown to be ineffective in a mature market. In the context of this Article...Microsoft using the same techniques [even with its old monopoly advantage] as Apple will fail, for the same reason. Microsoft needed to beat Google, and their software and hardware is not up to the task.

    8. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, before you nitpick me for using a slang term (profit share), you should try to make sure your follow-up post doesn't look like it was written by a drunk person, your grammar is atrocious.

      OK, let's look at some basic numbers.

      Unless there has been some major seismic shift in the industry in the last 2 months, Apple still earns over 70% of the total profits from hardware phone sales in the industry (my apologies for using the short hand "profit share", this being a graded economics class and all and not a post on a website). To be clear, this isn't referring to software licensing, chipset sales, etc, but only the profit made by companies selling entire smartphones.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/09/08/fascinating-number-apple-takes-71-of-all-smartphone-profits/

      According to Apple's own financial statements, gross margins decreased very slightly from 40.3% to 40.0% (admittedly, this is across the whole company, however, if there had been some massive drop in iPhone profits as you seemed to indicate, this would have shown a much bigger change considering the iPhone is over 50% of Apple's sales).

      Apple's iPhone sales, for the latest quarter increased 58% YOY. Which again proves my point that Apple is still growing, but the rest of the industry is growing much quicker, hence the decreased marketshare. In-fact, Apple is still the second faster growing company in terms of YOY sales in the smartphone industry, behind Samsung (which increased sales a jaw dropping and well deserved 103%, the Galaxy S 3 is a superb phone).

      iPad sales also increased YOY by 26%. Again, slower than the industry, but healthy nonetheless.

      http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/10/25Apple-Reports-Fourth-Quarter-Results.html

      There is absolutely nothing in my comment that was inaccurate, and your follow-up comment contained only one statement disputing what I said, and it was factually incorrect. It is clear from Apple's financials that margins have decreased very slightly, and that Apple still makes a "good deal of loose change".

      As for your marketshare number... You do realize it was referring to the third quarter of 2012, when the iPhone 4S was almost a year old and Apple's competitors had brand new phones out, don't you? Anyone who has paid even the tiniest bit of attention to the mobile market over the last few years has known that Apple's sales always contract in the quarter immediately preceding a new iPhone launch and then shoot up immediately after, before settling back into the norm. You're engaging in pretty blatant data cherry-picking.

      Is Android a competitive threat to Apple? Definitely. I would be an idiot to think otherwise. But your "ZOMG sky is falling on Apple" post is simply absurd. This is demonstrated not only by Apple's own financial statements, and the fact that Apple earns more profits on the iPhone than Google does as a company, but by common sense.

      Try actually responding to my data next time around. Thanks.

    9. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Data :)
      https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23771812
      https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23772412

      Those are the tables and graphs, I think they speak for themselves. I do not need to cherry pick. In fact I agree with your figures that Apple is making more sales..it is, but they are growing slower than the overall market. Those are the facts. I understand your spin "more sales"; mine is "shrinking marketshare".

      The question I keep asking is Apple relevant at 14.9% will it still be relevant at 10%...what about 5%. I wonder what will happen then.

    10. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my god, did you completely fail reading comprehension in school?

      The part about cherry picking data was specifically in reference to iPhone sales always slowing down prior to a new phone launch and you picking the worst quarter for ios market share possible (the one immediately before the iPhone 5 launch).

      That is EXACTLY what the graph you included shows, it supports what I'm saying, not you. It specifically shows low sales in Q3 2011 (prior to 4s launch), a sales spike following the 4s launch, followed by a contraction leading up to iPhone 5 launch. I would bet you $1000 that ios market share will spike, NOT fall in Q4 2012.

      How can you not see that in the data?

      Anyways, I'm going in circles here. I'm done with this pointless conversation.

    11. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... did you see that Apple's stock price is back up after their announcement with China Telecom?

      Are you retarded, or just a nincompoop?

      iPhone5 was released September 12. Their stock was worth $700.71 on September 21 close. Most recently, 49 days later on November 9 close, it was worth $547.06.

    12. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I should say it was introduced on 12th. Released on 21st. Which makes it even more obvious: the iPhone bubble has burst.

    13. Re:Apple failing in Mobile, Google not mentioned. by shmlco · · Score: 1

      It would be more attractive to developers if Android users didn't side load "free" applications like they're on crack. Profit margins for Android apps suck big time. I mean, they really suck. In fact, they suck so bad that they'd put a Las Vegas hoo... ah... never mind.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  19. Which mobile bungle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you mean the Kin? The product that was launched with a huge advertising push and was killed weeks later? If I were to define "bungle" that would be up there.
    Of course the Kin was killed to make way for winphone7.. Which has only managed to crack a few percent in the market. Sure sounds like a bungle to me!

    Why don't we count windows mobile too? At one point it was the number one smartphone platform! Pretty much the only game in town. I had an HTC wizard and I loved it (rebanded cingular one actually). Microsoft let that platform stagnate and die. The original iphone replaced my wizard.

    So here we are on the cusp of winphone8/winrt/surface. I don't have a whole lot of optimism.

  20. So Many Mis-Steps by NormAtHome · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The fact is Ballmer is a sales guy, plain and simple and there have so many things that Microsoft has done wrong it's hard to list them all and I have to wonder if he's just the wrong person to be running things.

    For example, starting with Office 2007 came the dreaded "tool ribbon" which to this day 9 out of 10 end users hate with a passion. For example one of my neighbors is a well regarded author with at least six books that have gotten some kind of award and she is fairly active in the community of authors; she's still using office 2003 and will not switch to a newer version because she just can't tolerate the tool ribbon and she says most authors whom she knows feel the same way. Remember back in the day, when Quattro Pro had selectable user interface and all those Lotus 1-2-3 users could switch without any effort? How about something like that (for Office and Windows) rather than MS jamming their idea of what the UI should be down the end users throats!

    Another glaring example, starting with Window's Vista we the technician's lost the ability to do a repair of the operating system. In many cases where something went seriously wrong with XP (virus damage etc) you could almost count on a repair install to get the system working again but not with Vista or Windows 7 where the only choice you have is to backup your data and do a complete re-installation; what a waste of time.

    And I've heard (maybe this is just a rumor) that the next version of Windows server is not going to have a GUI interface and will be completely command line driven; what sysadmin wants to sit there typing command after command into a Dos prompt.

    These are just the things that came to mind, if I actually sat here for a while I'm sure I could think of a bunch more.

    - Norm

    1. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      For example one of my neighbors is a well regarded author ... she's still using office 2003 and will not switch to a newer version because she just can't tolerate the tool ribbon and she says most authors whom she knows feel the same way

      this is my problem with Office and the whole Microsoft monoculture... not that she refuses to upgrade - frankly, progress happens, UIs change, whatever. No, my problem is that she's using Word at all as if there were no other word processors in existence.

      For an author, I'd recommend Scrivener. Its a word processor type program but with a lot more features geared toward managing a very large document, whereas Word is really a pretty poor system for writing shitty business reports.

    2. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by preaction · · Score: 1

      Everyone I have talked to who has been forced to use the ribbon has eventually concluded that it is indeed a better interface than the old toolbar/menu combo. The only ones I know who still complain about the ribbon are the ones who never gave it a real chance. Also, 9 out of 10 statistics are made up on the spot.

      The repair install went away because it frequently broke programs. Every time I tried to do a repair install I just wasted my time when a full reinstall would have actually left me with a working system. This was just one more thing that pushed me away from Windows entirely.

      What sysadmin wants to type commands? Every professional non-Windows sysadmin ever. I refused to admin windows systems because I couldn't script basic, repetitive tasks (which I hear PowerShell is working to fix, but why do I need Windows servers with expensive licenses when I have OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and Debian?).

      Oh god, did I just feed the troll? If one eats troll food does one become a troll?

    3. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Windows Server already is command-line only, but you can still install the GUI as an option..... which every Windows admin will.

      the thing to bing for (haha, only kidding - google for) is Windows Server Core. Here's a beginners guide to it, so you can now install Windows Server on underpowered hardware, like that old dual-core i3 you were thinking of chucking out :)

      One thing to note that i found really interesting is this : There is no support for managed code. so don't expect it to be a GUI-less version of Windows, its much more a cut-down thing for specialist uses, or for basic OS features like file+print.

    4. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by slimjim8094 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I've heard (maybe this is just a rumor) that the next version of Windows server is not going to have a GUI interface and will be completely command line driven; what sysadmin wants to sit there typing command after command into a Dos prompt.

      Uh... most sysadmins do that all day on Linux. That is, people whose title is "sysadmin" (implying a big-league system), not "IT guy" (implying a small-medium business) pretty much use Linux for servers, and they manage just fine.

      I seem to remember that the GUI would be an option, not unavailable, but even if it were unavailable a server is not something you administer at the console. It's something you manage remotely, and even if you need a GUI (which is fine for the smaller companies), RDP is a stupid way to do that compared to a desktop console.

      However, not requiring a GUI means that everything is controllable by command line which is a MASSIVE boon for anybody doing serious administration, because it means everything is scriptable and repeatable.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    5. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Oh please

      It took me a good week to get used to the ribbon. A month later I didn't have any issues at all whatsoever. It is 2012 and it says more about people who are stubborn and middle aged who hate change than a poor quality inferior UI.

      I hate Office2k3 now as it takes me awhile to find things and makes me look incompetent to end users who are behind the times. Study after study shows Ribbon is superior and users now use more functionality. With keyboard shortcut enhancements you do not even need a keyboard with Vista/Office2k7 and later. That is great for laptop users who actually spend the time to learn it. It is pointless to argue today just like saying man DOS was so much better I refuse to use this productivity waster called a mouse. With Dos I can do X! With Dos I can do Y etc.

    6. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by timmyf2371 · · Score: 2

      And I've heard (maybe this is just a rumor) that the next version of Windows server is not going to have a GUI interface and will be completely command line driven; what sysadmin wants to sit there typing command after command into a Dos prompt.

      A Linux sysadmin.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    7. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everyone I have talked to who has been forced to use the ribbon has eventually concluded that it is indeed a better interface than the old toolbar/menu combo. The only ones I know who still complain about the ribbon are the ones who never gave it a real chance

      You know a different crowd than I, then. I know a lot of people who use the ribbon on a daily basis, and have for quite a long time. They've all given it a real chance. I'd say that 8 or 9 out of ten of them think it's a barely-acceptable horrorshow.

    8. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      It took me a good week to get used to the ribbon.

      Me too. But being used to it and knowing how to use it doesn't mean that it's good.

      It is 2012 and it says more about people who are stubborn and middle aged who hate change than a poor quality inferior UI.

      I see. So anyone who doesn't like a UI that you like must be stubborn and/or old? Got it.

      Study after study shows Ribbon is superior and users now use more functionality.

      Not quite. Study after study shows that the ribbon lets you perform common tasks with fewer clicks. That's a cry from being "superior". There are also a lot of studies that show the ribbon is markedly worse for certain kinds of things.

      In the end, it's like any other UI: it works well for some people, and it doesn't for others. For most of the people I know, it introduces daily frustration. These aren't old people stuck in their ways, but a large group of developers working on cutting edge software.

    9. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      It's not just the command line that is great, it's also text based configuration files...

      You can edit them with your tool of choice, copy them around at will, back them up into a revision control system and do diffs on them to see exactly who changed what and when, and most configuration files support a form of comments which are often invaluable. Windows is still severely lacking in this regard.

      Speaking of command line, does windows come with an ssh server now so you can actually use the command line remotely, or are you still expected to use remote desktop?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    10. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by NormAtHome · · Score: 1

      I suppose like anything else, there are people who will adapt to the tool ribbon and like it and people who will use it but never like it. But one of my points is that end users don't have a choice, Microsoft forces what they think is best on the people and the hell with what the customer wants or likes or doesn't like, that attitude for any company is just wrong.

      In general my experience with Windows XP repair installs is that the situation you mention where the repair install breaks a particular program installation is rare; I'd have to say that in over 300 repair installs maybe once or twice I found a particular program (out of all installed programs) that didn't work properly after the install and doing all the updates and service packs. So given the rarity of that particular problem, I think that's a pretty poor excuse to remove that feature.

    11. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Against the out-of-the box menus and toolbars, yes. Against hand-optimized toolbars by the user who will be using them, no way.

    12. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has powershell remoting, which over a VPN serves the same role.

    13. Re:So Many Mis-Steps by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      So instead of implementing SSH like everyone else, they create their own crufty proprietary protocol which is clearly far less secure than ssh if it needs to be run over a vpn...
      That's ridiculous, ssh is ubiquitous by now and very powerful, its stupid to come up with something else non standard.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  21. Serious Cherry Picking of Dates There Jimmy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So Microsoft releases the first stable version of Windows 7 on February 22 of 2011 and a year later you're calling a 1/3 drop in Windows sales "frightening"? Perhaps they were just coming down from everyone's move to Windows 7? I mean you (hopefully) only need to buy that once for your machine.

    When revenue in just about all divisions drop to near 2006 levels, you've got a problem.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-income-by-segment-2012-10

    Uh, we're also at the same levels were were in March of 2010 and March of 2011. Mind explaining why he wasn't ousted then? Or why you skipped those dates and went all the way back to 2006 before the recession? Yeah, everyone was riding high before the recession ... we know ...

    1. Re:Serious Cherry Picking of Dates There Jimmy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, we're also at the same levels were were in March of 2010 and March of 2011. Mind explaining why he wasn't ousted then?

      Because then revenue hadn't stagnated at that level for multiple years. Now it has. Once is a fluke. Twice is coincidence. Three is a pattern.

    2. Re:Serious Cherry Picking of Dates There Jimmy by thoth · · Score: 1

      Uh, we're also at the same levels were were in March of 2010 and March of 2011. Mind explaining why he wasn't ousted then?

      Not getting canned in 2010/2011 probably has more to do with Ballmer selling the upside to Win8, Surface, Microsoft entering the hardware market, changing phone strategy, you know, his "vision" for where the company would go in the upcoming year or two.

      That future is now here. Win8 is released. Partnership with Nokia for Win8 Phone are cemented. Surface is out. This holiday season is going to see some retail activity and I doubt people are going to buy another "we just need 3+ more years to retool" sort of plea.

    3. Re:Serious Cherry Picking of Dates There Jimmy by JMJimmy · · Score: 2

      March '10/'11 were both about half a billion higher than Sept '12. There is also a downturn every March due to the way MS does it's books so comparing Sept to March isn't useful. Comparing Sept '06 to '12 we see that revenues for the Windows division sit around 3.5 billion. In six years he managed to grow the revenue 0%. Office and Server tools have seen steady growth, but all of Balmer's babies (online services, mobile/windows revamps, etc) have all flat lined. Where he's largely kept his paws off is where MS is seeing it's growth.

  22. It comes from the anal in analyst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    What does Microsoft have to do with netbooks or ultrabooks? Netbooks were Intel's initiative to create a secondary computer for consumption only that would be too weak to run Windows (Vista at the time). The fact that almost all of them ended up running Windows was bonus for Microsoft, and Intel's loss. Tablets (iPad and Android) are intended for the same purpose. Ultrabooks are Intel's initiative to reduce their dependency on Apple for the high-end laptop market. Neither of these was started by Microsoft, although Microsoft has clearly benefitted from both. So I don't know where he's coming from with this.

    He's on better ground with the claim that if Windows 8 and Surface fail Balmer will be in trouble. At least these are both clearly Microsoft's doing. But how could Window 8 fail? It's pretty much guaranteed at least Vista levels of success, which is to say a marketing failure but a sales success. And considering that most enterprises are currently moving to Windows 7 and Windows 8 won't be in their normal upgrade cycle a lack of enterprise sales won't be considered failure by itself. It's pretty much impossible for Balmer to get serious pain from a single release of Windows. Surface is easier to measure failure on. Microsoft has clearly invested lots of money in designing and producing it, so if there are very few sales there will be a substantial loss. Still, the sales projections aren't huge, so it seems likely that they will be met. Surface has limited distribution, likely due to limited production. If sales are really bad then production will slow down and distribution will increase, which would help to minimize losses. And I'm ignoring the fact that reviews for both have been generally positive. Outside of places like Slashdot the reception has been mixed, but more positive than negative. Which makes complete failure seem unlikely. Unless people stop buying PCs and buy iPads instead Balmer seems pretty secure in his position for now.

    1. Re:It comes from the anal in analyst by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      +1 informative.

      Netbooks originally ran Linux. Putting Windows on them came later when people saw that they were selling but people wanted Windows.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:It comes from the anal in analyst by Tridus · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 can fail in the tablet and phone markets. Nobody really expects the PC version to do worse than Vista (or be as popular as 7).

      But if Surface fails and Nokia continues to fail? They'll have pissed off all these people with Metro on the desktop for nothing. I doubt Ballmer can survive that, as the market REALLY wants to see MS move into those areas.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
  23. Needed: $229-$399 TOUCH Win8 Laptops by theodp · · Score: 1

    The Windows 8 touchscreen laptops are cool - check one out hands-on if you haven't - but are way overpriced (like Ultrabooks), making it a no-brainer for most to turn to the cheaper tablets. Add touchscreens to those $229-$399 Win 8 laptops, and people will IMHO think twice about going with a less-functional tablet! Selling crippled hardware is what did in the Netbooks - hopefully MS won't repeat this mistake with Win8.

    1. Re:Needed: $229-$399 TOUCH Win8 Laptops by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Using a laptop with touch is super-awesome. It's double-super-awesome when you're trying to show someone how to do something. Unfortunately, it's also double-super-expensive.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  24. Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And most people I know are itching to ditch their iPads for a Surface device.

    1. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by tuppe666 · · Score: 2

      And most people I know are itching to ditch their iPads for a Surface device.

      No they are not. People are pretty happy with their android tablets. The surface is an expensive netbook replacement.

    2. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      I like Windows 8, but I don't know anyone who's ever heard of a Surface tablet, much less wants to ditch their iPad for one.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    3. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One great reason to get surface is the remote desktop app. Very nice. Especially if you have multiple servers. Easy to switch back and forth.

    4. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Tridus · · Score: 2

      That you, Steve?

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    5. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by dlingman · · Score: 1

      http://www.realvnc.com/products/ios/ - why switch to a whole new platform, when you can just VNC in? If you really need something that does RDP on ios, that's out there too. https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/jump-desktop-remote-desktop/id364876095?mt=8

    6. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And most people I know are itching to ditch their iPads for a Surface device.

      No they are not. People are pretty happy with their android tablets. The surface is an expensive netbook replacement.

      iPads are usually not Android devices. Unless most people are installing Android on iPads.

    7. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Kagetsuki · · Score: 1

      Nice try shill, but remote desktop has been available on OSX and Linux [oh, and Windows] for a long time and there are clients availble on iOS and Android for a variety of different systems. This is not a great reason to get a surface. Your argument is like saying "You know what's great about getting a Chevy? Bluetooth Hands Free through the stereo."

    8. Re:Odd, I am enjoying Win 8 myself ... by Kagetsuki · · Score: 1

      You either know very few people or you straight up made that up. I haven't seen anyone with a surface let alone any interest whatsoever in one.

  25. Not likely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since Microsoft is making money hand over fist it would be surprising if they got rid of Ballmer. When companies are making near record profits that's usually when you want to keep the CEO, not toss him. I think it's just plain silly that every time MS releases a new product armchair managers claim it is a huge gamble and, if it doesn't work, heads will roll. Yet it never happens. MS is huge and their experiments with tablets and Windows 8 are small drops in the bucket.

  26. Balmer is the problem at MS ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Steve Balmer is the Rahm Emanuel of High Tech: He has no respect for the people who put him and his company where they are.

    His customers have long since noticed. They are forced to use MS products because there are no other practical choices in the marketplace, and Balmer disrespects them even while he takes their money. This has now become a serious problem for Microsoft -- as a company it enjoys no good will from its customers. Without customer good will, MS products don't get the attention and consideration they might deserve, from customers, who have been forced to use MS Windows and MS Office and pay unrealistic prices for the dubious privilege.

    Balmer also has no respect for his employees. He plays projects, managers and products off against each other until his best employees leave. This creates stress, consumes time, costs money and consistently produces compromised, mediocre products that are often outdated on their FCS date. MS talent drain has always been unmanageable, even when employment conditions favored MS.

    Without happy customers, without happy employees, and without the sense to correct these two negative business issues, MS is pretty much doomed.

    1. Re:Balmer is the problem at MS ... by Transfinite · · Score: 1

      "They are forced to use MS products because there are no other practical choices in the marketplace"

      Oh come on there are plenty. Dozens of perfectly practical choices in the Linux market and OS X. So that statement is entirely false.

    2. Re:Balmer is the problem at MS ... by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Oh come on there are plenty. Dozens of perfectly practical choices in the Linux market and OS X. So that statement is entirely false.

      People have felt locked into Microsoft products, and Apple products. You have to look at the years of arguments going on why Linux is failing to gain massive market-share. The answer was always the same...Microsoft. We have seen Linux succeed in the Mobile market place because Microsoft don't have a grip in that market.

      Calling Apple a viable Alternative is false. It was never in the game, and always danced to a different [and profitable] tune, but viable for the majority never.

  27. Wrong. Jobs' speech introducing the iPad by Andy+Prough · · Score: 3, Informative

    specifically said that the iPad was introduced to fill a void between the smart phone and the laptop, and that the iPad was created because "the problem is, netbooks aren't better than anything": http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OBhYxj2SvRI#!

    1. Re:Wrong. Jobs' speech introducing the iPad by david.emery · · Score: 1

      Depends on when you want to start the clock: Product Development or Product Introduction? I see your point from a introduction/marketing perspective, but I also suspect that Apple would have introduced the iPad when it did (because it was ready) even without the "threat" from Netbooks.

    2. Re:Wrong. Jobs' speech introducing the iPad by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      If you look at how things evovled ...
      iPods started it (lame!)
      iPods + Phone = iPhone
      iPhone - phone = iPod Touch
      iPod Touch + Bigger Screen = iPad.

      Everything fits. Compare with Microsoft

      Windows + Tablet = Windows Tablet
      Windows + Phone = WIndows Phone

      One is about form following function, the other is about putting Windows everywhere.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  28. Tablet-pc's were not the same as modern tablets by Andy+Prough · · Score: 1

    They were laptops with some touch-screen capability. Completely different beast.

    1. Re:Tablet-pc's were not the same as modern tablets by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      They were called tablets. Everyone called them tablets. The OS was "Windows Tablet Edition". They were MS' vision of tablets which is different than the current vision of a tablet. For MS everything had to be a PC. That was their mistake; they couldn't see past the paradigm.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:Tablet-pc's were not the same as modern tablets by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      For MS everything had to be a Windows PC

      I keep making this point, Microsoft is a Windows Company. They make Windows, and everything that goes with it ... except Hardware. And now, they are even doing that (RT).

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  29. Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Windows 8 is very nice. The only problem is how underdeveloped and closed, the currently developed apps are, including microsofts own. Windows 8 Apps need to be full featured and well thought out. Right now, the app store isnt even good.

    There is work to do still, but the OS is incredibly good. All that is needed is for Microsoft to comit to good idea it has, and work on the apps and app store to show people how good it can be.

    Right now, its not even a competitor to Apple. The apps are bad mostly, the store is a joke compared to itunes very well organized store. The store itself lacks features.

    Microsoft has R&D'd great ideas over the years and never got behind them fully. I hope this isnt just another microsoft zune. This is a great idea, with a great OS behind it. IF MS lets this slip away into boring like the media player, zune, etc... well MS will find itself with a new leader, as it should.

    It's clear that MS has great programmers and tech... they just need the direction of say a Steve Jobs....

    1. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious if you're using Windows 8 with a touchscreen monitor or on a tablet?

      I tried a touchscreen laptop with Windows 8 and it was actually... fun. Surprising to me as an iOS fan. But when I tried using it with only the touchpad and keyboard, it was annoying. I kept wanting to just use the screen.

    2. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by kenorland · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Windows 8 is a pretty mixed bag. Parts of it are good, parts of it are mediocre, and parts of it are lousy. The problem with this is that it doesn't average out; it's the parts that users get stuck on again and again that determine the overall experience. Consistently mediocre would be better than this.

      Part of what makes it such a mixed bag is the way in which old software constantly rears its ugly (and I mean ugly!) head, when you least expect it. That's really confusing.

      Microsoft's bad karma, meticulously built over decades, also comes back to haunt them: developers just expect getting screwed again. Maybe Microsoft will copy their wildly successful product, Maybe Microsoft will just drop some important API or technology leaving their product stranded. Maybe Microsoft will just decide next year to give up on Surface altogether and clone Google Glass instead. No matter what, developers pretty much know they are going to get screwed.

      50% great tech just isn't enough.

    3. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by luther349 · · Score: 0

      so awesome it will never touch anything i own.

    4. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by gtirloni · · Score: 1

      I think the parts, when analyzed separately, I doing OK.

      Sure, that Metro interface for tablets needs some works and more apps. But it's good, just need some work. It's not fundamentally flawed. Those new tablets come with pretty decent hardware too so I think, if Microsoft can keep afloat while it's fixing things, it'll be good in the end

      Sure, mixing Metro and traditional desktop on the laptops/desktops were a pretty bold move. But seeing those new ultrabooks with touchscreen that flip and turn them into a kind-of tablet.. I really wanna use Metro while I'm holding and then back to traditional desktop when I'm using in default laptop mode.

      I don't know.. the signs of failure ahead are not so obvious to me.

      --
      none
    5. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Sure, that Metro interface for tablets needs some works and more apps. But it's good, just need some work.

      Metro is a reasonable interface for tablets. It is not even remotely a reasonable interface for desktops. This, more than anything else, is Microsoft's error: trying to make a single interface that works on radically different form factors. If Microsoft wants to cede the desktop to other OS's and become a tablet/phone OS company, this decision makes sense. I suspect that's not what they want to do, however.

      I am truly baffled by their design decision here. They could have separated the UI from the OS, and provided Metro for those platforms where it makes sense, and also provided the tried-and-true UI for the desktop. Keeping the "legacy desktop" in the way they did doesn't count -- all they did was make what worked on the desktop work less well and in a more irritating manner.

    6. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 0

      I'm using it with a mouse on a workstation and still find windows 8 extremely enjoyable. I was hesistant to upgrade from 7 because 7 was extremely good. I was happy to find out windows 8 is just as good, if not better. Granted windows 8 is trying something a little bold and new, but the core of the OS is still as solid as 7, faster and better in most ways. I actually like the new start menu, theres no need for a silly button. Gesturing bottom left for start is so much better. Righg click bottom right corner and you get an advanced user menu for most common tools advanced users need. Click top left to cycle through open apps and desktop. Its a very fluid integration and i like it all a lot.

      The only thing I'm not happy with is that the app store is really simple, and the included apps like mail could be better (no search). The pictures app is cool but still too simple. The music app is not a real music player, its just a music store with a player... and the ui is terrible. If you want to beat itunes you better MAKE something like itunes. I love itunes btw.

      I'm not thrilled with ads on the start menu, i'm sure thats a possibility with the live updating tiles... If that becomes the norm, I will abandon windows all together.

      Microsoft really needs to focus on improving the app store, and apps so that it becomes clear that this is a valid and worthwhile user experience change. The tech is there. They've done great work with the OS... but things like splitting the view in "modern ui" could be better, as apps dont fill the small side well, and you cant split the screen how you want. There should be more increments to the split screen function.

    7. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 0

      I agree. I think windows 8 is a VERY good OS. People can be overly critical of MS, and they've often deserved it, but in this case they do not. I've been using computers since early apple, c64s, atari computers etc all the way up to windows 8. No one has attempted to do what Microsoft has done with 8, and considering that 8 is as good as it is... thats a huge success.

      Mixing touch based AND tablet pen based interfaces with a full workstation quality desktop OS that has been the standard for generations.... thats pretty impressive in my book.

      I was a skeptic, but I knew it was a brilliant and bold idea and if executed properly, hell it would be revolutionary. I think Microsoft has hit their mark, or close to it. The seemless intergration, the fast, snappy jumping in and out of desktop and "modern ui", the performance improvements over windows 7 etc... it all came together very well.

      The parts that are unknown are the app store, the apps, and what will happen... but Microsoft did succeed in making an OS that succesfully intergrated touch input, pen input and traditional input on multiple devices all with a workstation quality os. Thats impressive. People need to give them a little room here. They're breaking new ground and thye've done it extremely well considering.

      There is still much to be done, but the tech is there, and they have a strong foundation in windows 8. The rest is really up to how microsoft developes the app store further, and the apps themselves. Can MS deliver first party apps that really WOW the world? Or will they just move on to windows 9, and hope the rest of the industry finishes the job for MS?

      All i know is, Apple doesnt let the rest of the industry finish the job. Thats why Apple is very in demand, because apple tries to complete the user experience, where as Microsoft has often tried to provide examples of underdeveloped software as guidelines for others, and that just isnt enough. MS needs to get behind what they do 1000% and provide REAL functionality and solid user experiences with respect to their app store and apps.

      If they dont... Apple will, you know they are hard at work already.

    8. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 0

      [b][i] They could have separated the UI from the OS, and provided Metro for those platforms where it makes sense, and also provided the tried-and-true UI for the desktop. [/b][/i]

      But why do that when you can include them both? In a sense you're saying "if its a mobile device, it cant be a desktop device and if its desktop device it cant be a mobile device" While it may be true that a desktop device doesnt really need a mobile ui layer, the reverse isnt true. If i can take photoshop CS6 around on a tablet with a pressure sensitive pen, all while still using the same OS I use on a workstation to do the same work for game developement, feature film special fx and photography, then hell... I want that device! Thats a great device. So yes, integrating the desktop with mobile is a great idea, because todays mobile hardware is good enough to run a real workstation OS, and not just some simple palm os, or ios.

      In other words, do you want a holodeck or 3d glasses? If we its possible, we ALWAYS go with holodeck. :) Well windows 8 is proof that is possible to do put a workstation OS on a mobile touch and or pen based device while still retaining full laptop like functionality on the go. That is a GREAT thing in my eyes.

    9. Re:Windows 8 is SOOOOOOOOO good. by kenorland · · Score: 1

      You're a geek. I'm a geek. We can muddle through the messy complexities of switching between a bunch of different interfaces. Most users are completely stymied by it. Windows throws them into the old desktop and they don't know how to get back. Or they are used to the old desktop and they don't understand what happens with all those new tiles.

      And Metro, in particular, gets many things wrong, starting with the fact that it almost consistently fails to indicate where you can interact with it. After using it for a while, I still haven't even figured out how the task switcher is supposed to work: when you jam your mouse at the left edge, you get some window thumbnail, but if you keep jamming it, you get more. WTF? And all the auto-hide have annoying delays that are far slower than I work.

  30. Exactly. by Andy+Prough · · Score: 1

    You win a prize. One week of free access to Google. And Slashdot. Don't bother to thank me.

  31. "...but I'm not pessimistic." by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    FTFY

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  32. Clint Eastwood says... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2

    [Points to empty chair and addresses Ballmer] "When somebody doesn't do the job, you've got to let them go... hey, hey what are you doing with my chair monkey boy?"

    1. Re:Clint Eastwood says... by MonkeyBoy · · Score: 1

      I bought the chair. It's mine, I can do what I want with it.

      And if I want to run around on stage holding it on top of my head while chanting "Developers" over and over...

      --

      Moof!

  33. In corporate America ... the chair throws you! ;-) by D4C5CE · · Score: 1

    No Soviet Russia to see here, please move along.

  34. You are right about that by Andy+Prough · · Score: 3, Interesting

    However, when I read TFA, Snyder is trying to argue that Netbooks and Ultra Books are MS's and Intel's response to iPads and Android tablets. His premise is clearly absurd, as netbooks were selling by the millions before the first iPad was ever manufactured, and Ultra Books are a response to Macbook Air - not to tablets. MS might end up screwing up big-time with Surface, but it won't have anything to do with Snyder's curious re-working of the history of the netbook.

  35. Wrong. by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Informative

    ASUS and their peers copied the idea about 10 years after the first netbook and started a new boom of cheap latop-like mobile computers.

    Netbooks were started by ASUS and their peers as an 'appliance' laptop- They were Linux based and only cost a few hundred bucks. Microsoft didn't try to get into it until it was posing as a threat to Windows!

    Let me fix that for you:

    Netbooks were started by PSION as an 'appliance' laptop- They were EPOC based and only cost a few hundred bucks AND had 40 hrs of battery uptime. Microsoft did get into it with the last Edition WindowsCE, because PSION thought it would be a great Idea to get in bed with MS. PSION standing in the mobile market folded shortly thereafter, just as Nokia is folding now.

    A shame actually, the original Netbook [wikipedia.org] was a very good machine with some features we can only dream about even today, 13 years later (like a really awesome keyboard despite the really small size)

    EPOC went on to become the awesome Symbian Mobile OS which Nokia dropped after getting in bed with MS. ... What a coincidence.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Wrong. by slapout · · Score: 1

      Wasn't quiet a netbook, but I loved my Psion Series 5.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    2. Re:Wrong. by arose · · Score: 1

      Have you looked at the price of the thing? It might have the same name, but it is in the ultrabook market.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    3. Re:Wrong. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Netbooks were started by PSION as an 'appliance' laptop

      Is there a reason things like the Toshiba Libretto aren't considered netbooks? Besides the fact that they predate widespread adoption of the Internet?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  36. Shakeup? by PPH · · Score: 1

    Don't count on it. There's a reason Microsoft chose NASDAQ and stayed off NYSE many years ago. Differing requirements for shareholder rights as a condition of listing was one of them. Insider control is very strong at MSFT.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  37. Ummm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Microsoft's first serious venture into hardware"

    Unless you count all those Xboxes, maybe?

    "First it was the netbook, then it was the Ultrabook. Microsoft, Intel, and the PC makers keep looking for a way to convince buyers they don't need an iPad or Android tablet."

    Netbooks became big because ultraportables were stupid expensive and all the affordable consumer laptops were garbage boxes with huge form factors. In 2008. Pretty sure it was not invented as an excuse by Microsoft to keep you away from tablets, especially because MS had to keep licensing XP against its will because it was the only Windows that would run on the device.

    People who don't know computer history should not be paid to write computer-related articles.

    1. Re:Ummm.... by dlingman · · Score: 1

      And keyboards, and mice, and webcams, and network devices...

  38. surface is quite refreshing actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting from my new surface RT. Very nice so far. Windows8 takes a bit of getting used to- ie there is a learning curve, but after that its very nice. Yes I have apple devices. Yes I have Linux boxen in my basement. I still like the surface.

  39. Bad Performance? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where's the bad performance? Anyone looked at the stock market? The tech sector OVERALL is at -22% since 2003 (9 years ago). MS is BEATING THE INDUSTRY, lol. Sure, APPLE is way up, but if you discount that one stock MS is actually pretty much the best performer around. I mean I'm sure you can find smaller plays that are of course MUCH MUCH better, or Apple, but I hardly think that the shareholders at MS have any big reason to complain currently. They MAY feel uneasy about the strategic direction of the company, but the notion that stock performance is going to get Balmer tossed is probably not even close to realistic. Truthfully stock holders don't generally think a lot about strategic considerations either, sadly. If they did a LOT of CEOs would be out of jobs...

    --
    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    1. Re:Bad Performance? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      "Most recently, Microsoft reported $4.47 billion in net income for its first fiscal quarter of 2013, a 22 percent decline from the same period a year earlier, while revenue was off 8 percent. But the really telling number was in the Windows Division, with revenue of $3.24 billion, down a frightening 33 percent from the same period last year."

      22% decline in profits compared to a year ago is not good. This is what investors look like. These are the numbers that will drag a stock price down. It doesn't matter what the other companies are doing it matters what you are doing. FYI Apple is doing well so yes companies can perform well if they know what they are doing; which was the point of the article.

    2. Re:Bad Performance? by MaerD · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think I found your secret message:

      OVERALL MS BEATING THE INDUSTRY APPLE MUCH MUCH MAY LOT CEO

      limp encyclopedic hero ate oval bagels thus tantrum, yum

      Was I right?

      Or was it simpler? APPLE BEATING MS OVERALL. MUCH INDUSTRY. CEO MAY LOT... no wait.. that isn't making much sense, I think I got it the first time.

      Seriously though. what's with the CAPITALIZING RANDOM words? it MAY BE.. no it is.. VERY ANNOYING.

      --
      I put on my robe and wizard hat..
    3. Re:Bad Performance? by cayenne8 · · Score: 0
      ...and of course, there was the after election Obama stock drop....wasn't that close to like -300 drop overall in the mkt on Wednesday?

      Hope and Change baby....Hope and Change....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Bad Performance? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

      I think my point is reasonable though. MS stock price has not performed badly relative to other companies in the same sector. They are definitely looking like a post-growth company, and it may be that Balmer WILL go, but I don't think the stagnant stock price in this market is enough by itself. If they don't show better performance in a few quarters and WP8/Surface go nowhere then we might see some sort of change. I doubt it would be stockholder driven though. More likely the board. MS is pretty tightly held anyway with Gates owning half the company. He really still calls the shots if he wants to.

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    5. Re:Bad Performance? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

      better than warmed over trickle down bullcrud. ;)

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    6. Re:Bad Performance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you other /.ers must make tons of money in the market....

      My YTD in MS is ONLY 7.68% (check finance.yahoo.com). It also pays a nice dividend. It's also a very reliable blue chip. Want to whine about Microsoft's past transgressions or their future ones? Want to kick Steve to the curb because he throws chairs? Fine. The stock is doing just fine right now though.

    7. Re:Bad Performance? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Keep believing that...as we continue the next 4 years to watch the economy tank....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Bad Performance? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, and if I had 2 cents for every cheap "I won't be around to eat my words" economic prediction I'd be a very rich man. Tell you what, direct me to your peer reviewed proof of this horsepotato theory of yours. Show me why I should eat at the trough of the "Deregulating the banks will fix everything" McRomney tomfoolery in cold hard proven numbers. Not even the CONSERVATIVE economists drink that coolaide my friend.

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
  40. Ballmer is invincible by Sembiance · · Score: 2

    Ballmer is near invincible, so long as the MSFT stock continues to not-decline.I don't think anyone has the guts to actually show him the door when the stock isn't plummeting. Sure, maybe the stock will plummet if Surface flops, but somehow I doubt it.

  41. Production Value by kae77 · · Score: 1

    You know, the thing that I never understood about the Laptop market is why companies didn't pour the money into the production value. My wife owns a Macbook Pro, and I flat out refuse to buy a Mac product for a variety of reasons. Her question to me? Then what out there is as nice as my Macbook? Problem is... not much. Razor has a decent laptop, but it's only 17" - she only wants 13 or 15". Is it really that hard to build a unibody laptop with decent specs (midrange graphics, anyone?), reasonable battery life, and a good screen? With the PC market I can find one or two of those things, but never all of them together, unless it's pricier than the Macbook, or unwieldy in size. The commodity market that got the PC in the door has gone out the window. I'd love to see a fantastic Windows 7 Laptop come in at a reasonable ($1500-2000) price range that doesn't feel like it's going to fall apart after a month of use.

    1. Re:Production Value by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, the thing that I never understood about the Laptop market is why companies didn't pour the money into the production value.

      Um, let me guess. Because the average laptop buyer would rather pay $500 than $2500?

  42. Disappointing so far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I upgraded my HP TouchSmart tm2 to Windows 8 Pro the day it became available. Big disappointment. I would not downgrade only because I have several other computers running Windows 7 Home Premium but here are my 2 cents (4, actually):

    - For any kind of production work you want Win 7, not Win 8. Desktop mode in Win 8 is not only a pain but also seems awkward in then new environment, it's like an itch you can't scratch.
    - The new GUI (Metro, or whatever they call it now) is less functional, even in touch mode, than the Wind 7 "legacy" GUI. Tiles are not better than icons and the image scrolling feature they provide is distracting. Booting may be faster now but the UI and the apps are slower than in Win 7.
    - The dependency on Microsoft Store for getting and installing Metro apps is embarassing at best.
    - All the installed app(lication)s are actually listed as icons and you can see them by swiping up, but they are poorly structured compared to a tree. This is one step backward in terms of functionality, MS.

  43. As long as we're in the Wayback Machine... by sgtrock · · Score: 1

    Don't forget the TRS-80 Model 100 from Radio Shack. :-)

    1. Re:As long as we're in the Wayback Machine... by dlingman · · Score: 1

      I have one of those sitting beside me right now, in the leatherette case.

    2. Re:As long as we're in the Wayback Machine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the Portfolio!
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Portfolio
      It is featured in Terminator 2: Judgment Day. John Connor used it for get money from an ATM.

  44. Business OS is the ticket. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take XP and clean it up so that it runs fast on as little as 512 meg of ram again. Help companies easily DUMP the IE6 activeX security nightmare you created.

    Sell it with reasonable pricing. Release it as a terminal OS that will run on existing P4 or early Dual Lenovo and HP stations. At the same time make active directory fly to a server upgrade that is included that can run on older gear.

    For those who would change out existing gear make it cheap as well by making a terminal release for new cheap arm and atom based systems.

    Most importantly dump the bling and eye-candy ui design phylosophy! Microsoft you are not Apple you cannot just rely upon the "WOW" factor.

    Your business is having a terminal not:
    crash because of some software glitch,
    get hosed with crapware and virus problems,
    take 5 minutes to boot from cold and establish intranet access,
    take an IT staff of thousands to administer,

    Thinking that businesses will just run out and spend huge amounts of cash on equipment and software is a huge mistake and further to that touch screens just will not cut it in the business desktop world.

    Bring the costs of replacing terminals, servers and software down and you will keep your market going and expand it at the same time. Do anything else and you are toast as business will not pay huge amounts for a complete infrastructure change over like they did in about 2005-2006.

    Either way expect a drop in revenue, Ballmer is toast for not seeing this and thus steering the company completely in the wrong direction. Businesses are not in a position to fork out huge IT expenditures but they will spend on the right replacements.

    STOP WAITING FOR businesses to upgrade by making existing hardware obsolete YOU ARE PISSING OFF EVERYONE!

  45. Netbooks are too good by slashmojo · · Score: 1

    I've been using my eeepc now for over 2 years and it is my full time work & play machine. It does everything I need - it runs apache and mysql for dev, plays vids with vlc, runs browsers with a silly number of tabs open (and loads of other apps), I plug in a big screen and spread my desktop across the two screens and I connect a small mouse.. it runs ubuntu netbook remix (10.04) and gets a reboot once every couple of months if it's lucky.

    I can't see myself needing any other computer these days as long as this one holds out. It's the dogs bollocks.

  46. What you are saying is untrue by Andy+Prough · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC. "Microsoft Tablet PC is a term coined by Microsoft for tablet computers conforming to a set of specifications announced in 2001 by Microsoft, for a pen-enabled personal computer, conforming to hardware specifications devised by Microsoft and running a licensed copy of Windows XP Tablet PC Edition operating system or a derivative thereof.[1] Hundreds of such tablet personal computers have come onto the market since then.[2]"

    1. Re:What you are saying is untrue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rewind to 1996:
      Pen Services for Windows 95

      Right now I know of these machines and tablets with official releases...

      There have been tablets for a long time now. I own one from 1997.

    2. Re:What you are saying is untrue by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Again MS in their narrow vision called them tablets. Again the problem was they had to be PCs in the minds of MS. That is still true today except that Surface will only run a very narrow set of apps. Apple and Google and everyone else in the market does not see them as PCs. They are appliances and do not neccesarily need to conform to the PC model.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  47. "It would be a huge boost for the industry"? by daboochmeister · · Score: 2

    What? Why would Win8 doing well be a huge boost for the industry? If it doesn't do well, won't the same dollars go to others in IT? And, since the profit margins are less in many cases, isn't that arguably a more effective use of the funds, in terms of producing value for consumers?

    MS has done as well as it has because for every one actual fan of their products, there are 20 consultants/journalists/bloggers/3rd party developers rooting for them to succeed, independent of the actual value of their products.

    --
    "Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh ... never mind." Dave Bucci
  48. Prediction by erroneus · · Score: 2

    Windows 8 and Windows mobile/tablet efforts will fail horribly. There is nothing "business" about these things and therefore they can't effectively tie them in with their Windows+AD+Office network of offerings. That's the only strategy that works for Microsoft and they should keep doing it. They are, instead, changing direction, chasing after a market they don't fully understand with things people don't exactly want.

  49. Agreed. But TFA states that netbooks were by Andy+Prough · · Score: 1

    a response to iPads and Android tablets - none of which even existed until tens of millions of netbooks had already been sold.

  50. He's about out of time by JasoninKS · · Score: 1

    Microsoft has had a number of blunders over the last several years. In no particular order:

    Early Xbox red ring of doom
    Zune (and come on, who picked poo brown for one of the color choices?)
    Vista
    Delays with OS
    Delays in phone OS
    Netbooks flopped (not the fault of MS, but didn't help their reputation)
    UI of Windows 8 (too big a change I feel)

    If their products aren't flops, they are badly delayed in too many cases. It continually gives them a reputation of "following the other guys". Frankly, I'm surprised Ballmer is still there. I don't know if he's the "hands on" guy like Jobs over at Apple, but he's the CEO. It's happening on HIS watch. HE'S the guy up front introducing this stuff.

    1. Re:He's about out of time by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has had a number of blunders over the last several years. In no particular order:
      Early Xbox red ring of doom
      Zune (and come on, who picked poo brown for one of the color choices?)
      Vista
      Delays with OS
      Delays in phone OS
      Netbooks flopped (not the fault of MS, but didn't help their reputation)
      UI of Windows 8 (too big a change I feel)

      I'm sure Ballmer needs to be replaced, but from your list the irony is for the Xbox & Vista, part of their problem was they were launched too soon...In the same instance as blaming him for delaying software, and it can be argued for both of these cases respectively that it was good for Microsoft even though the products were poor.

      Netbooks were intentionally crippled by Microsoft [and intel], because they made less money from them, in retrospect the hardware manufactures should have [kept] invested in Linux [or BSD etc], but Microsoft stopped that.

      As for Windows 8 Its kind of the point of the article. A hybrid OS for a hybrid device. I think its poor as an OS, but as a strategy to catch in the tablet market. It maybe better.

      If you look closely at the choices you have listed as failures on Ballmers behalf, behind each of them you can see a profitable choice has been made. You could argue that Ballmer should have put product quality before profits, but then Linux failed to get a foothold against Windows on the desktop, and the Xbox effectively well against the PS3.

      Baller has a problem...its [New] Apple and Google.

  51. No worries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm certain Ballmer has more than enough chairs to go around.

  52. Puhleeze... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much stock does Ballmer currently have? How about Gates? My impression is that as long as they have enough control, Ballmer stays around. Could they lose that? Maybe, but I'd guess it would take a large number of institutional stockholders to force a change in the Board such that Ballmer would have to step down. And Windows 8 being the next Vista or Zune won't do that - they've been there and done that.

    Anything else is meaningless bitching and moaning. (And this from someone who isn't a Windows 8 fan, but does understand just a little of how Chiefs both get and lose their jobs. Hint: It has very little to do with the company or its performance as long as it isn't facing unprofitability.)

  53. So who would do a better job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RIM? HP? Kodak? Sears? Whose CEO would do better? At least MS is doing something disruptive, attempting to survive, not doing what other companies are doing - driving themselves into the ground and exploding on impact. Love it or hate it, Win8 is a response to a changing marketplace where Apple is making money by doing everything wrong - overpriced hardware instead of race-to-the-bottom commodity gear, and making developing software hard on their platform instead of chanting "developers!" loudly. MS has seen that the more Apple does things "wrong" the more money they get, and the more MS does things "right" the more irrelevant they are. MS has seen HP create and destroy a mobile OS, and knows anyone who doesn't go all-in will fail. MS has seen Apple merge iOS and MacOS into a unity. Okay, so who could handle this situation better than Ballmer? What would that person do? Other than reinvent MS's consumer products for today's market, what other options are there?

    Don't forget MS still has a server installed base with SQL Server and Win Server, plus a toolchain with Visual Studio, ASP.NET's MVC framework, and EF. If you're a Java person, you yawn at all this wheel-reinventing stuff; but if you're a CIO getting pitched by SAP to spend huge amounts of money, this MS stuff looks pretty good.

    1. Re:So who would do a better job? by LordThyGod · · Score: 1

      Well, the market changed course years ago. They are too little too late to the party. That's their style though ... wait for someone else's good ideas, use your market dominance to co-opt those ideas, and then make money after the market is already developed. That's worked well for them for many years. This time they might have waited too long for the market to mature, and/or for their reaction to it. They don't innovate, they renovate. Tough noogies. That's the consumer side. They've lost that already and they playing desperation catch up now. The business / enterprise is another matter. That moves much slower and they have no Apple-like competitor. That's going to be theirs for a long time to come. MS won't go away completely (regrettably). They will just become less and less of a factor for consumer products. And we are all better off as a result.

  54. ballmer needs to go by Dan667 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    microsoft has never been an innovator, but his running them into the ground is a textbook example of why you don't let marketing run a technology company.

  55. MS is lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's see - windows 8, a non-desktop OS that we are expected to use on desktops. And Surface, a tablet that won't run any existing windows software.

    Clearly, he should have been sent packing BEFORE this happened....

  56. Surface is the best tablet I've owned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go ahead call me a schill or whatever. But it's true. The Surface is actually good. So good, in fact, that I don't see myself ever going back to any other tablet.

  57. Ballmer by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Ballmer is an obvious failure and hasn't been anything else from day 1.
    It boggles my mind how he wasn't thrown out in the first year, let alone how he survived until now even.
    Why the hell are upper management and board members of tech companies apparently always so clueless?

  58. Steve's Going To Be Packing Then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because Windows 8 and Surface suck.

  59. Ballmer on the way due to a shareholders revolt? by gadget+junkie · · Score: 1

    Why should it strike me as news? Anyone who still has Microsoft after they issued excel 5 was angling for trouble. Ballmer is the man of the missed opportunities, but the balance sheet model was skewed from the start.
    If anyone troubled to check the balance sheet these past years, he'd have noted that MS made big fanfare of stock buybacks: after all, its market position meant it was a big net cash machine, and investments in its sector of adequate size, and no antitrust considerations, are a bit thin on the ground. So where to put the money, if not in the company itself? the troubling bit is they put it in the manager's coffers; the issued shares where options granted to employees, and in many years they covered two thirds of the buybacks. So no net increase in Earning per share, thank you.
    If the shareholders had been less index funds or tech fanatics, they would have pestered the company years back and insisted of a special dividend, like 40 bucks per share, with a big chunk of debt injected in the company. from then on, only cash dividends, no buybacks.

    --
    "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
  60. I think not by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Microsoft has limitless piles of cash. The board is used to Ballmer's psychopathic behavior.

  61. Maybe Apple is doing something that isn't easy by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    They all starting with pretty much the same technology, suppliers, engineering competence. So if Apple can manage to put together a product with all of the elements on your wishlist, and nobody else can... maybe it's not actually obvious what should be done, maybe doing it is actually not that easy, and maybe Apple is actually good at it.

    Steve Jobs called it "taste."

    I once worked at a Fortune 500 company that seemed to be completely unable to identify good ideas on their merits. Every idea had to be validated, basically by seeing that the competition was already doing it. When their customers would start clamoring for the features and products their competition had, they would suddenly get very busy and whip out something, under pressure and in a rush. Their motto seemed to be "we'll do whatever IBM does, two years later and poorly." There's a lot of that in the computer industry.

  62. +1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1

  63. The best thing Ballmer's got by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are his 333 million Microsoft shares. They earn him $300 million a year just in dividends.

  64. Small and cool misses the point though by Gription · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Small new devices are 'cool' but that isn't where MS / Ballmer missed the point. They took Microsoft's flagship OS and optimized the whole user interface to work on 'cool' handheld devices where they don't have a serious foothold in the market. I know that they are salivating looking at Apple's App Store and Google's Play Store but they just thumbed their nose at everyone who uses the most entrenched desktop operating system in the world. It is a train wreck as a desktop UI and they are so obscenely blind that they didn't see it or just plain ignored it.

    How many people with a tablet and a PC will sit down and use the tablet for word processing or an spreadsheet? This is the biggest opening for a competitor to jump into the desktop OS market I've ever seen. And for the people who think hand held toys like tablets "are a paradigm shift" then explain to me how that correlates with the number of dual or triple display setups that are being rolled out?
    (Ask Oracle how the mas shift to thin computing is working for them!)

    The boat has been missed. Let's see if they notice.

    1. Re:Small and cool misses the point though by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      i haven't upgraded to windows 8 (7 is doing me fine on the desktop, laptops running mint) but from the looks of it with a couple of hacks and an hour or so of setting up/organizing/learning it, it would be just as productive and useful as 7. I wouldn't be using the start screen much (maybe have it ticking over on one of my side monitors), defiantly put the start menu back, setup all my shortcuts on the desktop and taskbar, delete or seriously hide the shortcut of anything that doesn't open in the desktop, learn a few keyboard shortcuts, possibly incorporate a touch screen monitor lying down next to my keyboard for cool factor, and i'm set.

      Also i'm not really a tablet guy, but half the reason i don't use my android one is because of all the things it can't do. I don't know if windows rt fixes it but pro should.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
  65. Ballmer gone, but not until... by emaname · · Score: 1

    ...he does one more monkey dance for us!

    --
    An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
  66. Rewrite in JS or pay telco hundreds per year by tepples · · Score: 1

    It'll work well for people who's entire computing world can fit within a web browser.

    In theory, that'd work. In practice, it'd require either A. all applications to be rewritten in JavaScript in order to run locally using HTML5 application cache and local storage, or B. a continuous connection to an application server over a cellular data plan that costs hundreds of USD per year. Or what am I missing?

  67. How do I try the keyboard and screen? by tepples · · Score: 1

    If I'm shopping for a 10" laptop, how do I try the keyboard and screen on a product sold only through Amazon? Amazon has no showrooms in my home town.

    1. Re:How do I try the keyboard and screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That is what specs, reviews and Amazon's excellent customer service is for. I *only* buy my computers online and have never had a problem because I actually go over the specs before ordering.

      Further, you should learn how to read.

      I've looked online and in shops and it's hard to find anything for that price.

  68. Please god by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please god, let Windows 8 and the Surface tablet flop!

    I swear I`ll go back to church on Sundays.

  69. Don't blame the Ball-Man. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This mass ship-jumping away from a company that has produced software that made people feel like their digital servants were inept, incompetent, a pain in the ass to deal with, and sometimes even made them feel the computers were their temperamental masters, rather than their servants, is the result of a long-standing desire to get out from under the Wintel monopoly, which Late-to-the-table-again Microsoft mercifully ignored until it was too late.

    Now they realize that they've fucked their shareholders by leaving a huge bonanza of cash sitting on the table for smartphone and tablet manufacturers to grab up, that could have been theirs. Now that Android has blazed a path, (and so many iCult members have gone down another, more locked-down, walled garden path,) we've figured out that we don't NEED Microsoft anymore. Not here. Just like with the Zoom or Zuun or whatever that crappy little MP3 player they had, or with how Internet Explorer was late to the browser game, and how strictly speaking, since Windows followed AFTER the Mac's GUI, Xerox's (never actually shipped, but built many) GUI-based PC/Workstation type machines, etc., they've waited too long to get on board with tablets.

    Their only hope is that people will want a tablet that can do everything their PC can do, but there's a couple HUGE problems with that. The M$ Surface is STILL a tablet, having speed and power that will underwhelm when compared to even a netbook, won't be able to hold a candle to a laptop, and will be a joke compared to a full workstation/gaming class desktop/tower PC. Anyone trying to replace a PC outright with the Surface tablet is going to be disappointed at how little memory it has, how slow and underpowered it is, to say nothing about the fresh hell that will be the forced changes in the Windows 8 interface.

    Then there are all the people who will hear that the Surface tablet can do all the things a PC can, including running all your old programs, only to find out that you have to have the higher-end version to get that feature, and if you don't, you're stuck with what is basically a clone of an Android tablet or an iFad, but that WON'T run Android or iFad apps. Then they'll get pissed when Misrosoft tells them they have to pony up another 80 dollars (or about) to get the FULL version of 8 for the Surface.

    This of course assumes they won't simply say, "sorry, buy a new tablet to get that feature." Many of those people will regret buying the Surface, and realizing they've just dropped a half a g on a door-stop, they'll hurl theirs through a window (no relation!) in frustration, happy at least that unlike a desktop, they can give this digital flop-in-the-making a good HEAVE! out the window unlike a PC that is too heavy or unwieldy.

    If I'm right, and I think I am, Microsoft will continue its slow, inevitable slide into irrelevance, bankruptcy, fire-sale to some Taiwanese start-up for pennies on the dollar. How the mighty will have fallen!!! But it won't be entirely the Ball Man's fault. People have simply realized that all those years of Blue Screens of Death, Microsoft forcing everyone, (or at least trying to,) to upgrade Office or Windows or whatever they're trying to foist on the public, at tremendous expense, wiping out competition through FUD campaigns, not being able to compete legitimately with their betters, M$ turned to dirty underhanded bullshit and we just won't take it anymore. Now that we have alternatives, we don't have to depend solely on Microsoft.

    This is the backlash of decades of being known to be evil assholes, and figuring they could get away with it, because they're Microsoft, and people have no choice.

    Well, we do now. This is why the Surface and Windows 8 Phone (a product with one of the worst names any marketing asshole ever shat in a meeting,) will go the way of the Zune, and Microsoft will slowly wither and die. I, on the other hand, will celebrate, and party like it's 1999.999!

  70. Swan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Swan song? More like Ugly Duckling song.

  71. Give Me A Secure Device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One the is free from the prying eyes of google, Apple, phone carriers, and marketeers. One that I don't have to worry why a note taking app has to have access to the internet, my address book, and my camera.

  72. Not to troll? but... by lilfields · · Score: 1

    Not to troll but I like my Surface and my WIndows 8 machine with Start8 is phenomenal, and I want a Lumia 920...look at that camera. Microsoft is doing things right, though some things need more polish...but I know tons of people with iPhones that have apps crash constantly, etc. I think Balmer pushed Microsoft through a tough anti-trust time frame and a resurgence is upon us. Also aren't netbooks and ultrabooks...very good sellers?

  73. This reminds me... by Not-a-Neg · · Score: 1

    I need to cancel my Xbox Music trial subscription. Just like everything else on the Start screen, I never use it.

    --
    -==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!