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Microsoft Has Been Watching, and It Says You're Getting Used To Windows 8
Dupple writes "Microsoft's user data shows that users are getting used to dealing with the Windows 8 user interface, reports this article at MIT Technology Review. Despite some of the more scathing reviews of Windows 8, ordinary users are getting along with it just fine, according to Julie Larson-Green, the Microsoft executive who leads Windows product development. Data collected automatically from some Windows users, she says, show they are adjusting to some of the new operating system's controversial features without problems 'So far we're seeing very encouraging things,' Larson-Green says of the large volume of data that Microsoft receives every day from people using Windows 8 who have chosen to join the company's 'customer experience improvement program.' All users are invited to enroll in that program when they first log into the new operating system. If they do so, anonymized information about how they are using the operating system is sent to Microsoft. Referring to complaints from some quarters, Larson-Green says: 'Even with the rumblings, we feel confident that it's a moment in time more than an actual problem.'"
I don't know a single company whose IT will implement Windows 8 on anything. I'm talking everything from tablets, phones, laptops, PC's, or servers. In fact my company said straight out "No" because of all the problems it would entail.
Did they ever fix the lack of command line for windows 8 servers?
Are already probably lenient towards Microsoft, so they will of course make themselves learn the new UI. About 80% of the people I know just automatically click no and go past it, and the other 20% make an active effort to click no and go past it. It's like polling the people at a major sporting event about how enjoyable they find that sporting event.
I am not saying that Windows 8 is even remotely similar to prison rape (though some might suggest there may be some similarities, I am not saying that) but the very notion that a party or group is getting used to something does not mean they like it or want it.
I supposed I could have said "taxes" or any other thing people generally don't like, but I wanted to be a little edgy... a little dramatic.
So yes. We acknowledge Microsoft is shoving their things [Windows 8 in this case] through our [choose an orifice] and we acknowledge that we presently don't have much choice in the matter.
Anyone really surprised?
Give any big change 3 months and it will get accepted if you don't give in as the change forcer.
I've seen it at work too many times to count. Manglement makes a decision that upsets everyone and lots of people talk about how they are going to start looking elsewhere for employment and the sky will fall and this is terrible, but after the 3 month gripe period, everyone accepts the changes and life moves on.
It's how things work.
I've found that I use the mouse less for launching apps when using Windows 8 which I didn't in Windows 7, despite the functionality being the same. Press the Windows key, start typing an app / file name, and hit Return to launch. While the Start Menu existed, I was using the mouse, because we navigate WIMP UIs with a mouse. The Start Screen took that away; It was a full-screen interface all of its own, without menus, and that broke the psychological boundary between me pointing-and-clicking and moving over fully to the keyboard for launching apps.
:) Thanks again, Microsoft!
So, now I've learned that behaviour instead, I've swapped back to Windows 7 with its sensible desktop UI
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Oh, that gives me such a warm feeling inside...
morcego
I've noticed a couple different things:
1) It makes me a lot more selective about putting things on the taskbar and desktop.
a) I put things I really do use out there, so things are highly geared to my workflow
b) Things I find I'm not using get punted
2) The windows button finally has purpose. You can hit that button, start typing an app name and then space/enter to launch. I find I'm mousing less actually.
In addition, Windows 8 hasn't come with the alternating-release-something-new instability problems we've gotten used to. It's every bit as solid as 7 and has better integrated security features. Win, win in my book.
My mother had to get a new machine this past weekend, all they had in stock came with Win8. I was dreading it the entire way back from the store, and while I was removing her old box and connecting up the new box, due to my experiences with the Win8 preview. Looked and acted pretty much like the preview did to me, but surprisingly, my mother liked it. I heard a lot more "oh wow"s than I did "oh no"s.
My karma is in a nose dive
"...something something something Dark Side! Something something something complete!"
Microsoft Has Been Watching, and It Says You're Getting Used To Windows 8
Much like a kid who has broken his arm "gets used to" a cast or sling. Much like a cow who has been electrocuted many times by a fence "gets used to" staying away from it. Much like someone convicted of a DUI "gets used to" riding a bicycle.
'Even with the rumblings, we feel confident that it's a moment in time more than an actual problem.'
Under what circumstances, exactly, would someone who works for Microsoft ever say anything contrary to that? Anything could be going on, good or bad, and that is exactly what they would say to dismiss criticism.
My work here is dung.
Well, if the population being measured does not include the 'tech-savvy', the results suggest a pretty successful transition.
First of all, I'm not sure what bundling has to do with it. I mean, as opposed to all the Windows 8 user data they're getting from people who didn't have Windows 8 installed on their PC?
Secondly, surely if the user data was skewed to less-competent users then a more representative sample would should an even quicker rate of acclimitisation?
I'm sceptical of the kind of coarse-grain user data they're surely getting, and the conclusions themselves* but I genuinely can't tell what your point is here.
*That people are able to comfortably use Windows 8 within a few weeks shouldn't be a cause for celebration, that should be the level below which everyone in the project gets fired. The cheering shouldn't start until your design changes are shown to have led to improvements that are worth the cost.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
It's mind boggling, only 90% managed to use the start screen and charms on day1.
So in that 10% are folk that failed to work out how to get the login prompt from the completely control free boot page. And people who failed to shutdown their PC making up the bulk of it - since that needs the charmless bar.
Just to install ClassicShell or fire up the desktop to use it with needs use of both the start screen and charms. So even if you never use them again you still count as a MS success in these stats.
Any other company would be panicking over a 10% fail rate just starting up their software, not claiming it as a success.
love to hate them but as long as they're putting out OS's it's keeping a large slice of us employed! You could say it is our destiny.
Many moons ago we got a new intern in the office. He was young, naive and hopelessly clueless about the corporate world. We took a liking to him immediately.
Of course, this meant that we had to play pranks on him. Because that's what you do to people you like, right?
Our best prank was what we did to his computer. We wrote a small program that ran in the background and drew a dot in the center of the screen on top of whatever was running. This dot grew bigger over time; at first it was just one pixel wide, but after a week it was over twenty.
One morning, just over a week after we'd secretly installed it onto the intern's computer, he called me into his cubicle and asked me if I had ever heard of "dead pixels on a CRT". I said no, holding back the laughter, and politely suggested that he try reinstalling his graphics card drivers. He declined, and said that was too much effort and he would just live with it.
The intern was fully prepared to live with this large, expanding, black dot in the center of his monitor. It was nothing but sheer annoyance, but he was willing to ignore it.
At this point we caved and uninstalled the software.
That experience taught me that users will put up with just about anything. As long as it doesn't outright prevent them from doing their job (eg, the network card has died), they will find some way to soldier on.
Most the people in my IT group at work are windows users. most of my friends and relative are windows users. No one likes windows 8, several have downgraded new gear because they hated the 8 so much. At work they say its the new Vista, useless rubbish that should be shunned, and that hopefully "9" will be a release Redmond gets a clue again and puts out something useful.
That's pretty funny when the die-hard windoze fangals/fanbois I know can only bad-mouth the windows 8. Microsoft has failed its own customers, driven dissatisfaction upward, regressed the state of the UI art.
You can probably "get used to" almost anything when you aren't given a choice. Heck, you can "get used to" chronic back pain too...
But that's a far cry from meaning that a person actually prefers it
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I'm amused how he looks a little more and more like Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now every year. I'm pretty sure that there's eventually going to be an investor meeting in a temple surrounded by spikes with iMacs and Apple computers skewered on them somewhere in Redmond. Ballmer will be sweating out and squeezing cool water over his bald forehead while rambling slowly in spurts to SEC reporters who are trying to make heads or tails of what he is saying. Minions will be slaughtering a cow with chairs in the background while he sputters on about Windows 8's success and how they said his methods were madness.
My work here is dung.
I would suspect that the tech savvy will have more trouble with the new interface simply because there is so much for us to relearn about it. I've gotten about 15 minutes of use with it so far, and I'm extremely bewildered by it. I'm actually kind of embarrassed by the new operating system, and it might be a couple of years before I'm willing to recommend it to someone who has used a computer before.
It would actually be nice if there were some kind of tutorial that ships with the OS, or if they included some visible cue when there was some completely hidden functionality that would be incredibly useful. I went over to a user to help them with something on their new laptop, and they had to show me how to operate their computer before I could get any work done. A good user interface should be something where fumbling around like an idiot reveals 99% of its functionality in a safe manner. Mac OS X does a fantastic job of this.
The total lack of visual cues about hidden functionality is the absolute worst aspect of the new interface, and I would likely find it less daunting to learn it if there was something that simply indicated that "hey, if you're looking for the Control Panel it's over here!" At least with Mac OS and Unity there isn't anything that's completely hidden from view unless you know about the secret part of the screen that you have to move your mouse over to make it appear. All of the basic functionality is out in plain view right from the start.
Although Microsoft got the memo about touchability, and they're intelligent enough to gather data about things, they seem to have completely missed the point of a tutorial. Tutorials are useful because they expose functionality that is otherwise non-obvious. Nobody walks away from a tutorial with 100% or even 10% of the actual skill learned, but they probably retain enough information that they know how to ask intelligent questions when the material that they were tutored on comes up later, and that's what's comforting. I'm not surprised at all that Microsoft doesn't care about comforting their users though. I've been yelled at by Microsoft support on the phone before.
When I started to work with Android, there was nothing about the interface that wasn't easy to intuit about it. You could see what zones of the screen were for touching, and the OS responds very quickly with feedback: it tells you when you are able to do what you think you can do. Windows 8 is very confusing for me and all of the other developers at work. We spent half a month setting up a demo system with a Windows 8 laptop, and our engineers had a lot of trouble locating simple things like the Control Panel. It wasn't nearly that difficult for us to learn Mac OS or Android or iOS.
I'm not going to deride it as a piece of crap UI because I haven't used it very much, but I certainly find it to be the most frustrating thing I've ever encountered in my entire career. I will say that if the VP in charge of this project decided that their interface shouldn't be comforting, then she's either stupid or deluded.
"Getting used to it".... Right. After about 6 months my dad told me that he was getting used to his chemotherapy, too- somehow this wasn't a very good selling point for the experience.
The sheer number of friends and relatives bringing their shiny new computers to me (The resident geek) begging me to upgrade them from Windows 8 to Windows 7 says otherwise...
I suspect most of these people did not voluntary opt into Microsoft's "Track Me" program either.
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
I wanted to try it out, so I put it on my (non-touch) laptop. The Metro UI is an abomination. I wouldn't even want it on a touch tablet ("live tiles" compare very badly to Android's widget, notifications are a joke...), on a PC, it should be taken out and shot.
Which, luckily, you can do easily with http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/, and get back the Desktop shell that the IT gods intended.
Apart form that, the new features are:
1- Remote Desktop server...
2- and that's it. Not even ReadyBoost for SSD, nor some tiered storage like Apple has started doing.
3- and after Jan 31st, you won't even get Media Server.
MS is trying to force-feed Metro UI to their Desktop users, hoping to use that familiarity to get some traction on phones and tablets. The problem are that Metro UI 1) makes no sense on non-touch machines, and 2) lacks severely even on tablets and phones.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Well, if the population being measured does not include the 'tech-savvy', the results suggest a pretty successful transition.
Let's face it, the most conservative grouches who most venomously oppose anything new in UIs and desktop environments are usually the "tech savvy" and them nerdier they are the more potent the venom. Just take one look at the angry tirades over Gnome 3.... Ok, so they changed Gnome, learn to like the new UI or fork the old one, it's not the end of the world. I'm a Mac user but I actually kind of like the new Windows UI, it's different and innovative. Microsoft deserves some credit for not taking the path of least resistance and aping somebody else's UI like Google did.
Regular unsophisticated users get along just fine because they aren't emotionally attached to things like user interfaces. It's only the whiny IT crowd who has a problem.
Regular unsophisticated users bumble along doing things by rote memory or by really bizarre roundabout routes because they don't know the most efficient way to do things. The "whiny IT crowd" like to be able to get to the features they want without dealing with bullshit like the ribbon bar (which according to TFA the designer of said bar also designed Windows 8).
which is totally what she said
Call me a skeptic but somehow the very fact that MS feels the need to say this, shows people are NOT picking up Windows 8. Yeah, so early adapters of the new MS vision who are so in love with the company they allow it to see everything they do, are sticking with it... and? Fans of a dog food company eat their favorite companies dog food. Doesn't mean it doesn't tastes like... well like nothing actually, animal food lacks spicing.
If Windows 8 adoption was really good, MS would be crowing about actual sales figures. They are not. For the truth NEVER listen to what a spokesman says, listen for what he doesn't say.
Basically, people that haven't given up on Windows 8 or refused to even start using it or didn't mind MS watching over their shoulder, haven't given up in large volumes. Damned by faint praise? If this is the best press release they could come up with, the truth is far more dire.
Want proof? Go back in history and read MS press release on Bob, ME and Vista.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
How to use Windows 8 in 4 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc
Windows 8 Tutorial in 12 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1UxI5I_jo
I share those videos with most people who purchased Windows 8. Answers the vast majority of questions for most people.
learn to like the new UI or fork the old one
Let me know how well that works for you on a Windows desktop....
Canonical Has Been Watching, and It Says You're Getting Used To Unity
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
win8, you don't sweat much for a fat guy. Overall, those are pretty terrible results and microsoft appears to be panicking even with their PR.
Secondly, surely if the user data was skewed to less-competent users then a more representative sample would should an even quicker rate of acclimitisation?
The headline says people are getting used to it, not that they like it.
Case in point, my mother's got an old laptop that doesn't have a multitouch touchpad. I am able to use it, but I find myself cursing the lack of features like two-finger scrolling. If I use it for any prolonged period of time, I remember how to use edge scrolling instead... I still miss the convenience of two-finger scrolling, etc., but I adapt to what I'm given. As soon as I'm back on my own laptop again, I breathe a sigh of relief.
As to Windows 8 users... the non-technical users are the ones who are least likely to have the option to go back to what they prefer, so they adapt to what they have. That doesn't mean they like it, it means that they don't have a choice in the matter.
What Larson-Green fails to take into account is that technically experienced users (1) are still running Windows 7, and (2) turn off Customer Experience Improvement Program anyway for privacy reasons.
In addition, most corporations will turn off Customer Experience Improvement Program via group policy, for the same reasons power users do. (Even if it's not supposed to be personally identifiable, why risk sending more personal/corporate information to Microsoft than you have to?) So CEIP turns out to measure little more than the responses of technically inexperienced users who buy cheap OEM systems – a shrinking demographic.
Microsoft needs to remember that business users and power users, not the dumbasses who buy $299 eMachines, are its real customer base.
1. It's self selecting, and selection is based practically on a positive view of Microsoft products;
2.it might be too small to be representative of the whole, and no data on enrollment is available in the article.
moreover, the article says:
"[...]The data collected by Microsoft also show that people are becoming more familiar with the new features over time, says Larson-Green. She previously led a redesign of the Microsoft Office interface that, in 2007, replaced text-based menus with a more visual “ribbon interface,” an initially controversial change that is now widely accepted as an example of good design. “Two days to two weeks is what we used to say in Office, and it’s similar in Windows 8,” she says.
So my quick summary: Microsoft wants me to believe that a group, selected according to criteria and methods that would have my statistics professor at the University screaming that I am a confounded moron, is right in believing that windows 8 does not have a usability problem, and therefore I am also a confounded moron because I use windows 7 with the XP menus. Ah, I did not mention that there's no word on how would I use touch on my installed screen base, which does not have a touch interface.
"If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
Works out great for me. There are keyboard shortcuts for everything. I can navigate the entire UI from keyboard.
I have some formal training in HCI and a love of accurate terminology, so I have the ability to articulate problems with a user interface - I can voice my opinion and experience with weak design. A regular user doesn't have those skills, so they appear silent. The end result is that you call us IT types whiny.
"Less sophisticated users" aren't getting along fine. They struggle to use it and/or call for help because bad user interfaces (and arbitrary vendor changes) interfere with the creation of an accurate mental model of how the software is supposed to be used or what it's capable of. The confusion created in their mind is real.
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
Seriously, I don't... I still have my keyboard from 1993 because these new ones stink.
More seriously - I use my computer for work. Not kids, not watching videos, not games, WORK. Windows XP/7 is better at getting work done than Windows 8.
Hopefully microsoft pulls their heads out of their butts on this and allows a quick setting change to "I have no use for metro, thanks."
paintball
I just watched the first of those two videos.
I have had Windows 8 for about two weeks now, and I tell people that I hate it.
I agree with the GP here, that the problem is that it is not intuitive how to do anything.
I purchased Windows 8 Pro Upgrade and installed it. Aside from a single post-card sized piece of paper, it comes with no documentation what-so-ever. There are a few cues on the screen the first time, and that's it. I probably learned more from watching just that one video that from playing around with Windows 8.
My question is, "Why couldn't Microsoft provide a decent tutorial for new users?".
I would suspect that the tech savvy will have more trouble with the new interface simply because there is so much for us to relearn about it.
I doubt this. I'm not as savvy as many people here, but in the course of my life I've must have learned around 100 different GUI/UI schemes. Tech savvy people learn about the conventions and metaphors of UI, the universal bits, while non-savvy people learn the specific bits (click this, for this to happen). I don't have a problem with learning new UIs anymore. Sure, there is a learning curve, and my productivity suffers for a week or two, but generally I haven't found a UI I couldn't use after a bit. This isn't saying I enjoy using some of them, but I can learn them easily since I have tons of experience with tons of different UIs.
To a nerd, the only difference is graphics, placement, and flow, as the underlying systems are generally the same. To someone like my parents a misplaced icon makes their computer unable.
As for Windows 8, I actually think it is a superior mobile interface to its competitors. I really like it, and I love its aesthetics. I would have picked it up when I got my last phone, but for the lack of apps and development. I also am pretty locked in to Google, and don't want to have to repurchase things to duplicate functionality. I also don't trust MS in the mobile market yet. On the desktop... Ugh. Hidden elements are bad, as you stated, as is the touch/tablet scheme. Even if I had a touch screen desktop, I would hate it, since using it would be less than comfortable. And I'm really not keen on cleaning my monitor once a day, like I do with tablets and phone. The conventions don't translate well. They should note that iOS and OS X are different looking still, even if they are merging into a single OS over time (both in underpinnings and in function). Different forms require different conventions.
Though if there ever was a Kinect for desktops (supported, not hacked) that worked with Win 8, I'd probably give it a shot. I have an odd feeling that this is what they had in mind, but for some reason couldn't actually bring to market in time, so just steamed ahead in the typical MS style.
The only place in my house where Win 8 is going, is to my HTPC.
We spent half a month setting up a demo system with a Windows 8 laptop, and our engineers had a lot of trouble locating simple things like the Control Panel. It wasn't nearly that difficult for us to learn Mac OS or Android or iOS.
This isn't hard to believe. To MS's credit, they are trying something almost completely new. They are trying to create new conventions, instead of just modifying old ones. Win 95 is pretty much Win 7, at least from a GUI perspective. Win 8 completely breaks that tradition, so it screws with our inner "this is Windows, this is how it works) schema. They would probably have an easier time if Win 8 was a completely new product, not tied to an existing line, or history.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
In the end?
Still tastes like chicken.
Seriously. If this is the best language of encouragement that Ballmer can choke out of his throat, then you know there is a Vista-sized hole in Microsoft's delivery.
I know! Why don't we all get used to Ubuntu Unity and Libre Office? "Even with the rumblings, we feel confident that it's a moment in time more than an actual problem."
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
"Using Windows leads to fear, fear leads to anger, etc".
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Those are Youtube tutorials by people unassociated Windows Development, their very existance reinforces the GP's comment about they needing to be an easier learning curve for a completely new way of interacting with a PC.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
The fact that this is an article tells how poorly thought out some of their design decisions are.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2012202/how-to-shut-down-windows-8.html
It's not difficult, but it's definitely not obvious or intuitive.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
No no...
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows for mission-critical applications."
If that's not "suffering," I don't know what is.
Nothing more.
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
There's a difference between "learning something new" and "making an ungodly mess of a previously clean interface". In our UI design classes we were told that when users have more than 7-9 options in one section of a menu, it starts to become less efficient. The ribbon is a mess that you really have to "learn" where everything is. With good menus you don't have to learn shit, you can just find what you want by looking at the headings. The few times I've had to use the ribbon bar, things have been in weird places. I've had to Google or ask someone. Whereas with all other new interfaces I'm presented with (Android or even iOS for example) things make sense. MS don't have a fucking clue when it comes to good interface design. The only worse offenders are RIM.
which is totally what she said
Apple's slogan:
"We make things easier"
Microsoft's slogan:
"You'll get used to it."
Table-ized A.I.
Ordered a HP laptop for my son as a present. It arrives at work and my plan is to load up MInt 14 MATE but first I might as well make a recovery disk for Windows just in case I have to send the laptop for repairs.. Anyways I go through the normal first time install.
Well so I install it and I'm greeted with some weird screen that has boxes all over the place and I have to scroll sideways to see the rest. WTF? There's a reason no website scrolls sideways and just up and down. Ok ok maybe there's a reason for this madness. So I'm moving the mouse around trying to get some kind of a panel/menu. I get one but can't figure out where to get the programs menu. Also noticed something weird when I moved the mouse over to the corner, a small screen shots appears. I'm like WTF, OK?
Anyways I look online and find the menu to create the backups disk or in this case "5" DVD disk or a USB drive that requires min 20 gigs of space. WTF again? Christ most Linux distros are one DVD. Ok what ever, I go ahead and it says I can't use DVD-RW ony DVD-R, well fuck me.
Ok I give up and decide I will just get a 32gig USB drive later. I go do some work and I guess as I was turning around to my desktop the mouse must have moved to one of the corners and somehow the desktop appeared. Now I didn't notice this till about an hour later when I turn around and see the desktop there and the start screen is gone. So now I'm scratching my head as to what happened. Eventually I figure out that moving the mouse to the corner and clicking the small screen shot would flip me between desktop and start screen. BUT WHY?
So today I start the laptop and figure ok get the little screen shot in the corner to flip to the desktop. Well its not showing, mother fucker I think I'm gonna need beer for this. Eventually clicking on Norton AV brings me back and now I can flip back and forth.
Now I'm usually not too ani MS and I'm for using the tight too for the right job but where we have a swiss army knife where you have to pull out the scissors to be able to pull out the blade and you have to pull out the tooth pick to be able to close the scissors and blade.
WTF is the point of the start screen?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Actually, I prefer Unity to Metro. Not even close either. I'm not sure what that really means though ;)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.