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Microsoft Has Been Watching, and It Says You're Getting Used To Windows 8
Dupple writes "Microsoft's user data shows that users are getting used to dealing with the Windows 8 user interface, reports this article at MIT Technology Review. Despite some of the more scathing reviews of Windows 8, ordinary users are getting along with it just fine, according to Julie Larson-Green, the Microsoft executive who leads Windows product development. Data collected automatically from some Windows users, she says, show they are adjusting to some of the new operating system's controversial features without problems 'So far we're seeing very encouraging things,' Larson-Green says of the large volume of data that Microsoft receives every day from people using Windows 8 who have chosen to join the company's 'customer experience improvement program.' All users are invited to enroll in that program when they first log into the new operating system. If they do so, anonymized information about how they are using the operating system is sent to Microsoft. Referring to complaints from some quarters, Larson-Green says: 'Even with the rumblings, we feel confident that it's a moment in time more than an actual problem.'"
I don't know a single company whose IT will implement Windows 8 on anything. I'm talking everything from tablets, phones, laptops, PC's, or servers. In fact my company said straight out "No" because of all the problems it would entail.
Did they ever fix the lack of command line for windows 8 servers?
Are already probably lenient towards Microsoft, so they will of course make themselves learn the new UI. About 80% of the people I know just automatically click no and go past it, and the other 20% make an active effort to click no and go past it. It's like polling the people at a major sporting event about how enjoyable they find that sporting event.
... let the M$ hate flow through you."
wanting to pound keyboard in frustration or fist through monitor is 'getting used to it'?
I am not saying that Windows 8 is even remotely similar to prison rape (though some might suggest there may be some similarities, I am not saying that) but the very notion that a party or group is getting used to something does not mean they like it or want it.
I supposed I could have said "taxes" or any other thing people generally don't like, but I wanted to be a little edgy... a little dramatic.
So yes. We acknowledge Microsoft is shoving their things [Windows 8 in this case] through our [choose an orifice] and we acknowledge that we presently don't have much choice in the matter.
Anyone really surprised?
Give any big change 3 months and it will get accepted if you don't give in as the change forcer.
I've seen it at work too many times to count. Manglement makes a decision that upsets everyone and lots of people talk about how they are going to start looking elsewhere for employment and the sky will fall and this is terrible, but after the 3 month gripe period, everyone accepts the changes and life moves on.
It's how things work.
I've found that I use the mouse less for launching apps when using Windows 8 which I didn't in Windows 7, despite the functionality being the same. Press the Windows key, start typing an app / file name, and hit Return to launch. While the Start Menu existed, I was using the mouse, because we navigate WIMP UIs with a mouse. The Start Screen took that away; It was a full-screen interface all of its own, without menus, and that broke the psychological boundary between me pointing-and-clicking and moving over fully to the keyboard for launching apps.
:) Thanks again, Microsoft!
So, now I've learned that behaviour instead, I've swapped back to Windows 7 with its sensible desktop UI
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Oh, that gives me such a warm feeling inside...
morcego
I've noticed a couple different things:
1) It makes me a lot more selective about putting things on the taskbar and desktop.
a) I put things I really do use out there, so things are highly geared to my workflow
b) Things I find I'm not using get punted
2) The windows button finally has purpose. You can hit that button, start typing an app name and then space/enter to launch. I find I'm mousing less actually.
In addition, Windows 8 hasn't come with the alternating-release-something-new instability problems we've gotten used to. It's every bit as solid as 7 and has better integrated security features. Win, win in my book.
My mother had to get a new machine this past weekend, all they had in stock came with Win8. I was dreading it the entire way back from the store, and while I was removing her old box and connecting up the new box, due to my experiences with the Win8 preview. Looked and acted pretty much like the preview did to me, but surprisingly, my mother liked it. I heard a lot more "oh wow"s than I did "oh no"s.
My karma is in a nose dive
Microsoft Has Been Watching, and It Says You're Getting Used To Windows 8
Much like a kid who has broken his arm "gets used to" a cast or sling. Much like a cow who has been electrocuted many times by a fence "gets used to" staying away from it. Much like someone convicted of a DUI "gets used to" riding a bicycle.
'Even with the rumblings, we feel confident that it's a moment in time more than an actual problem.'
Under what circumstances, exactly, would someone who works for Microsoft ever say anything contrary to that? Anything could be going on, good or bad, and that is exactly what they would say to dismiss criticism.
My work here is dung.
Well, if the population being measured does not include the 'tech-savvy', the results suggest a pretty successful transition.
First of all, I'm not sure what bundling has to do with it. I mean, as opposed to all the Windows 8 user data they're getting from people who didn't have Windows 8 installed on their PC?
Secondly, surely if the user data was skewed to less-competent users then a more representative sample would should an even quicker rate of acclimitisation?
I'm sceptical of the kind of coarse-grain user data they're surely getting, and the conclusions themselves* but I genuinely can't tell what your point is here.
*That people are able to comfortably use Windows 8 within a few weeks shouldn't be a cause for celebration, that should be the level below which everyone in the project gets fired. The cheering shouldn't start until your design changes are shown to have led to improvements that are worth the cost.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
It's mind boggling, only 90% managed to use the start screen and charms on day1.
So in that 10% are folk that failed to work out how to get the login prompt from the completely control free boot page. And people who failed to shutdown their PC making up the bulk of it - since that needs the charmless bar.
Just to install ClassicShell or fire up the desktop to use it with needs use of both the start screen and charms. So even if you never use them again you still count as a MS success in these stats.
Any other company would be panicking over a 10% fail rate just starting up their software, not claiming it as a success.
Many moons ago we got a new intern in the office. He was young, naive and hopelessly clueless about the corporate world. We took a liking to him immediately.
Of course, this meant that we had to play pranks on him. Because that's what you do to people you like, right?
Our best prank was what we did to his computer. We wrote a small program that ran in the background and drew a dot in the center of the screen on top of whatever was running. This dot grew bigger over time; at first it was just one pixel wide, but after a week it was over twenty.
One morning, just over a week after we'd secretly installed it onto the intern's computer, he called me into his cubicle and asked me if I had ever heard of "dead pixels on a CRT". I said no, holding back the laughter, and politely suggested that he try reinstalling his graphics card drivers. He declined, and said that was too much effort and he would just live with it.
The intern was fully prepared to live with this large, expanding, black dot in the center of his monitor. It was nothing but sheer annoyance, but he was willing to ignore it.
At this point we caved and uninstalled the software.
That experience taught me that users will put up with just about anything. As long as it doesn't outright prevent them from doing their job (eg, the network card has died), they will find some way to soldier on.
I don't have a problem using Windows 8, my problem is it is not helping me do what I want to do. Simple things like cutting and pasting between applications is a pain. Copying text from the Metro email app to a word document is far to difficult. I have been using it since the first preview, so it is not the learning curve. Too many times the item you are working on leaves the screen so you can do some Windows function full screen.
Most the people in my IT group at work are windows users. most of my friends and relative are windows users. No one likes windows 8, several have downgraded new gear because they hated the 8 so much. At work they say its the new Vista, useless rubbish that should be shunned, and that hopefully "9" will be a release Redmond gets a clue again and puts out something useful.
That's pretty funny when the die-hard windoze fangals/fanbois I know can only bad-mouth the windows 8. Microsoft has failed its own customers, driven dissatisfaction upward, regressed the state of the UI art.
Should not require the user to "become used to it" in order to use it.
Pretty limiting flaw in your logic. If they never change anything, they'd never get better.
Disclaimer: Not a fanboy. I only use MS for gaming and have no plans to move to 8.
So give people a choice, Windows 8 versus Windows 7 - see which one people prefer.....
how they are using the operating system
If the great unwashed are "using" the OS then they're doing it wrong.
From the end user perspective the OS is supposed to be an app launcher, not much else.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
I'm sure there's some geeks who worked on win8 looking to see if their UI work has added productivity/usability. I'm also pretty sure the only thing Microsoft is using as a measurement for 'worth-the-cost' is revenue. The worth of their data analysis will be whether or not they can turn the tide of bad press to get that revenue.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Vista was a pain, but not like Windows 8. Vista had software and driver incompatabilities. It asked for permission to do things way to often. But, if you knew how to use XP, you could use Vista. Not so with Windows 8. Now, 8 has software and driver imcompatabilities also, but the dual GUI thing is its major problem.
You can probably "get used to" almost anything when you aren't given a choice. Heck, you can "get used to" chronic back pain too...
But that's a far cry from meaning that a person actually prefers it
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Have gnu, will travel.
"...ordinary users are getting along with it just fine..."
Ah, them! You do mean the ones that cannot distinguish between Microsoft Word and Microsoft Windows?
I'm amused how he looks a little more and more like Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now every year. I'm pretty sure that there's eventually going to be an investor meeting in a temple surrounded by spikes with iMacs and Apple computers skewered on them somewhere in Redmond. Ballmer will be sweating out and squeezing cool water over his bald forehead while rambling slowly in spurts to SEC reporters who are trying to make heads or tails of what he is saying. Minions will be slaughtering a cow with chairs in the background while he sputters on about Windows 8's success and how they said his methods were madness.
My work here is dung.
Please provide reviewed, reliable, scientific evidence of your claim.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
I would suspect that the tech savvy will have more trouble with the new interface simply because there is so much for us to relearn about it. I've gotten about 15 minutes of use with it so far, and I'm extremely bewildered by it. I'm actually kind of embarrassed by the new operating system, and it might be a couple of years before I'm willing to recommend it to someone who has used a computer before.
It would actually be nice if there were some kind of tutorial that ships with the OS, or if they included some visible cue when there was some completely hidden functionality that would be incredibly useful. I went over to a user to help them with something on their new laptop, and they had to show me how to operate their computer before I could get any work done. A good user interface should be something where fumbling around like an idiot reveals 99% of its functionality in a safe manner. Mac OS X does a fantastic job of this.
The total lack of visual cues about hidden functionality is the absolute worst aspect of the new interface, and I would likely find it less daunting to learn it if there was something that simply indicated that "hey, if you're looking for the Control Panel it's over here!" At least with Mac OS and Unity there isn't anything that's completely hidden from view unless you know about the secret part of the screen that you have to move your mouse over to make it appear. All of the basic functionality is out in plain view right from the start.
Although Microsoft got the memo about touchability, and they're intelligent enough to gather data about things, they seem to have completely missed the point of a tutorial. Tutorials are useful because they expose functionality that is otherwise non-obvious. Nobody walks away from a tutorial with 100% or even 10% of the actual skill learned, but they probably retain enough information that they know how to ask intelligent questions when the material that they were tutored on comes up later, and that's what's comforting. I'm not surprised at all that Microsoft doesn't care about comforting their users though. I've been yelled at by Microsoft support on the phone before.
When I started to work with Android, there was nothing about the interface that wasn't easy to intuit about it. You could see what zones of the screen were for touching, and the OS responds very quickly with feedback: it tells you when you are able to do what you think you can do. Windows 8 is very confusing for me and all of the other developers at work. We spent half a month setting up a demo system with a Windows 8 laptop, and our engineers had a lot of trouble locating simple things like the Control Panel. It wasn't nearly that difficult for us to learn Mac OS or Android or iOS.
I'm not going to deride it as a piece of crap UI because I haven't used it very much, but I certainly find it to be the most frustrating thing I've ever encountered in my entire career. I will say that if the VP in charge of this project decided that their interface shouldn't be comforting, then she's either stupid or deluded.
The sheer number of friends and relatives bringing their shiny new computers to me (The resident geek) begging me to upgrade them from Windows 8 to Windows 7 says otherwise...
I suspect most of these people did not voluntary opt into Microsoft's "Track Me" program either.
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
Yeah, Windows 8 is fine, as long as you install a third party app like Start8 in order to giver yourself power user abilities from the Desktop.
Seriously Micro$oft, how boneheaded are you?
windows key->type what you want->launch desktop app == much faster than a start button. Always works for me quickly.
How boneheaded are you? (ooo invective is fun)
In all seriousness, I think windows 8 has some pretty neat features, although I spend most of my time outside of metro.
Z
I wanted to try it out, so I put it on my (non-touch) laptop. The Metro UI is an abomination. I wouldn't even want it on a touch tablet ("live tiles" compare very badly to Android's widget, notifications are a joke...), on a PC, it should be taken out and shot.
Which, luckily, you can do easily with http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/, and get back the Desktop shell that the IT gods intended.
Apart form that, the new features are:
1- Remote Desktop server...
2- and that's it. Not even ReadyBoost for SSD, nor some tiered storage like Apple has started doing.
3- and after Jan 31st, you won't even get Media Server.
MS is trying to force-feed Metro UI to their Desktop users, hoping to use that familiarity to get some traction on phones and tablets. The problem are that Metro UI 1) makes no sense on non-touch machines, and 2) lacks severely even on tablets and phones.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Anyone getting used to VISUAL STUDIO 2012, where the UI is so flat you often can't tell where dialog box borders are, and the MENUS shout at you? This has got to be a usability disaster of historical proportions.
I couldn't hear you over the slashdot icon shouting at me. Z
so they all were paying to be beta testers?
Other famous Microsoft Moments In Time (MMITs) that were not Actual Problems:
= 8.3 filenames
= Microsoft Bob
= Windows XP security
= Microsoft Windows Vista, *.*
= Microsoft advertisement in which Seinfeld asks Bill Gates to "adjust his shorts"
= Microsoft Zune, whether brown or not
= Chief Executive Orificer, Squirts Ballmer, *.*
= Microsoft advertisement for the Surface tablet in which ungraceful, robotic people coordinate senseless movements that no one would ever do in reality... if anyone bought a Surface tablet in reality
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Well, if the population being measured does not include the 'tech-savvy', the results suggest a pretty successful transition.
Let's face it, the most conservative grouches who most venomously oppose anything new in UIs and desktop environments are usually the "tech savvy" and them nerdier they are the more potent the venom. Just take one look at the angry tirades over Gnome 3.... Ok, so they changed Gnome, learn to like the new UI or fork the old one, it's not the end of the world. I'm a Mac user but I actually kind of like the new Windows UI, it's different and innovative. Microsoft deserves some credit for not taking the path of least resistance and aping somebody else's UI like Google did.
"Ordinary users" == people who use nothing but a browser?
Doubtful. I tried to sell my Dad the idea of an iPad/Nexus/whatever or a Chromebook (because I don't know enough about Windows to support him). He came up with a list of Windows apps he wants to use. Nothing that couldn't be done in a browser in theory, but stuff he's been using since Win95.
I think that's going to be fairly typical.
Regular unsophisticated users get along just fine because they aren't emotionally attached to things like user interfaces. It's only the whiny IT crowd who has a problem.
Regular unsophisticated users bumble along doing things by rote memory or by really bizarre roundabout routes because they don't know the most efficient way to do things. The "whiny IT crowd" like to be able to get to the features they want without dealing with bullshit like the ribbon bar (which according to TFA the designer of said bar also designed Windows 8).
which is totally what she said
Speak for yourself. Where I work we have a really good relationship with Microsoft and we turn on the feedback reporting on most workstations specifically because we WANT our issues to be seen. I enable it on all my non-server systems specifically for this reason.
Do you have VS 2008 installed? If so check out Visual Studio Icon Patcher
No if only we can revert the new brain-dead Team Foundation back to VS 2008.
This statement alone should say it all:
"users are getting used to dealing with Windows 8"
If it was such a "success" wouldn't you expect users to do more than deal with it.
Call me a skeptic but somehow the very fact that MS feels the need to say this, shows people are NOT picking up Windows 8. Yeah, so early adapters of the new MS vision who are so in love with the company they allow it to see everything they do, are sticking with it... and? Fans of a dog food company eat their favorite companies dog food. Doesn't mean it doesn't tastes like... well like nothing actually, animal food lacks spicing.
If Windows 8 adoption was really good, MS would be crowing about actual sales figures. They are not. For the truth NEVER listen to what a spokesman says, listen for what he doesn't say.
Basically, people that haven't given up on Windows 8 or refused to even start using it or didn't mind MS watching over their shoulder, haven't given up in large volumes. Damned by faint praise? If this is the best press release they could come up with, the truth is far more dire.
Want proof? Go back in history and read MS press release on Bob, ME and Vista.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
If people backcharged Microsoft for the time and frustration the Windows OS cost them, would microsoft still be in business?
True, but it also means that the people who have their computers set up for them by 'tech savvy' individuals will also have it shut off... which on the consumer level will still be pretty small, but I suspect on the IT scale it means corporate users are not being tracked. I also wonder, is this option given to people who's OS is pre-installed like on new Dells?
People can adapt to a range of misfortunes, from bad weather to living without limbs. The question is, would they, unless they had to? And if they would, what does that make those people?
Oversimplified and incorrect, but it does point to something.. specifically 'ordinary users' tend to have fewer needs and use cases out of their OS... so what this indicates is that the UI is doing fine for the most common use-cases.. but designing a UI that can do a few things well is pretty simple... designing one that can handle the pre-defined cases and still be flexible enough for the unexpected is harder. That will be the test.. otherwise it is just Bob again.
How to use Windows 8 in 4 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc
Windows 8 Tutorial in 12 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1UxI5I_jo
I share those videos with most people who purchased Windows 8. Answers the vast majority of questions for most people.
They know when you're awake
What kind of data is being collected? Is it detecting the frustration level of the user? Maybe it could detect HOW HARD the user taps on the touch screen.... Maybe it's a PUNCH!
I'd get used to having a prostate exam every day, if I had to.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
according to Julie Larson-Green, the Microsoft executive who leads Windows product development also showed she enjoys getting a paycheck and is willing to skew any set of numbers as she is told to. Early adoption of her pay check as an executive has led to a quick adaption of weasling positions and stats to make the higher ups, and HR, happy. She expects, as an early adopter of her pay, that future trends will encourage more of this same behavior leading to hoped for increase in pay adoption.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
This is how propaganda works -- make everyone believe that everyone else agrees with something, and you have a herd of sheep ready to be controlled.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
learn to like the new UI or fork the old one
Let me know how well that works for you on a Windows desktop....
Yeah, I'm really getting used to being forced to check my POP3 inboxes using my supposedly less-powerful WinPhone. And the IE10 renderer's tendency to render all-white/all-black when I have more than 8 tabs open tells me I've been using the browser wrong all these years.
In the early days of using computers to optimize logistics folks would peer into their inventories and make decisions with a narrow view of what made them the most money. It was only later they discovered secondary effects of this was actually costing them money.
The lack of low value item x in stock meant a customer wanting item x and may also purchase item y decides they would rather shop somewhere both x and y items are in stock translating into lost sales.
I think as TFA points out this data shows only that humans can adapt to changes in their environment. It does not address TFAs productivity question or validate a design decision.
If we did a "project mojave" style test replacing metro shell with program manager I suspect we would find the same signals in the data.
Canonical Has Been Watching, and It Says You're Getting Used To Unity
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
win8, you don't sweat much for a fat guy. Overall, those are pretty terrible results and microsoft appears to be panicking even with their PR.
Secondly, surely if the user data was skewed to less-competent users then a more representative sample would should an even quicker rate of acclimitisation?
The headline says people are getting used to it, not that they like it.
Case in point, my mother's got an old laptop that doesn't have a multitouch touchpad. I am able to use it, but I find myself cursing the lack of features like two-finger scrolling. If I use it for any prolonged period of time, I remember how to use edge scrolling instead... I still miss the convenience of two-finger scrolling, etc., but I adapt to what I'm given. As soon as I'm back on my own laptop again, I breathe a sigh of relief.
As to Windows 8 users... the non-technical users are the ones who are least likely to have the option to go back to what they prefer, so they adapt to what they have. That doesn't mean they like it, it means that they don't have a choice in the matter.
MS is really throwing the bull**** around when it comes to Win8. They will do almost anything other than admit they screwed up.
What Larson-Green fails to take into account is that technically experienced users (1) are still running Windows 7, and (2) turn off Customer Experience Improvement Program anyway for privacy reasons.
In addition, most corporations will turn off Customer Experience Improvement Program via group policy, for the same reasons power users do. (Even if it's not supposed to be personally identifiable, why risk sending more personal/corporate information to Microsoft than you have to?) So CEIP turns out to measure little more than the responses of technically inexperienced users who buy cheap OEM systems – a shrinking demographic.
Microsoft needs to remember that business users and power users, not the dumbasses who buy $299 eMachines, are its real customer base.
Well, being into computers for at least 20 years my wife likes it over win 7. Took a while to rip the gui apart but it seems to work well for her.
As far as me... well the MS compatibility tester prog says there's about a dozen or more legacy progs I depend on that aren't compatible. So it'll probably cost me at least $500 to upgrade them. And there are some that'll just die.
Seems like it's getting more and more like the mac. Upgrade the OS you have to upgrade some programs. Want to upgrade some programs, you have to update the OS.
So I'm at a catch-22 with it.
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
Ok, so they changed Gnome, learn to like the new UI or fork the old one, it's not the end of the world.
Yeah, developers should never listen to feedback from their users. What do they know about UI design?
And you missed option 3: switch to XFCE.
I can't imagine Apple or Google putting out something similar ... "despite all the negative reviews, people really like it"
Right. No one was asking for a more complicated OS but that's exactly what MSFT delivered.
the non-technical users are the ones who are least likely to have the option to go back to what they prefer
Why not? The first google result for "Windows 8 start menu" or even "Windows 8 start" is a simple utility that replaces the start menu in 2 clicks. The rest of the results are instructions, videos, tutorials, and utilities to replace the start menu in the plainest, simplest language. What makes you think this is beyond the reach of most users? I can see maybe the most novice users having problems, but if there's two things most users know how to do (which has more often than not lead them to trouble) its search the web and download and install executables.
You complain that Microsoft doesn't innovate. Microsoft has no ideas. Microsoft just copies.
Then, when they realise they might need to update the 3 decade old UI to handle innovations such as trackpads, touchscreens, multitouch, and multiple screens everyone is horrorstruck that they're actually trying to do something different.
And while the UI experts analyse how people use computers, they maximise real estate, maximise flexibility, and design a UI that tries to fit these usage patterns, people who have barely even used it declare it the worst idea ever.
Seriously.. this sounds directly like a microsoft propaganda puff piece.
I would want the actual data to be made available for independent analysis before wasting slashdot's bandwidth on an article saying "a microsoft executive says users are liking our product".
I mean-- seriously. Come on.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
1. It's self selecting, and selection is based practically on a positive view of Microsoft products;
2.it might be too small to be representative of the whole, and no data on enrollment is available in the article.
moreover, the article says:
"[...]The data collected by Microsoft also show that people are becoming more familiar with the new features over time, says Larson-Green. She previously led a redesign of the Microsoft Office interface that, in 2007, replaced text-based menus with a more visual “ribbon interface,” an initially controversial change that is now widely accepted as an example of good design. “Two days to two weeks is what we used to say in Office, and it’s similar in Windows 8,” she says.
So my quick summary: Microsoft wants me to believe that a group, selected according to criteria and methods that would have my statistics professor at the University screaming that I am a confounded moron, is right in believing that windows 8 does not have a usability problem, and therefore I am also a confounded moron because I use windows 7 with the XP menus. Ah, I did not mention that there's no word on how would I use touch on my installed screen base, which does not have a touch interface.
"If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
"an initially controversial change that is now widely accepted as an example of good design"
Yes, since they fixed it in Office 2010. The Office 2007 interface was just like Vista's. They got it fixed on the next version of both.
The fun part is using VS 2012 with TFS 2008. Every time I check out code, I have to go in and remove the read-only flag on every file.
Also, why the hell doesn't Visual Studio include the option to remove trailing white space like every other sane editor in the world? We have one person in our team that decided they like the option that allows them to insert text anywhere and they consistently check in code that has massive white space issues.
(Yes, I've seen the plugins, but at this point I'd have figured that "developer, developers, developers" would have included features to help developers out.)
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Works out great for me. There are keyboard shortcuts for everything. I can navigate the entire UI from keyboard.
staples is dumb to not offer to install 7 on systems but then again there techs are ranked on sales and don't have the time to install a os + do a driver hunt.
If you remember exactly what you want to look for (or what ever the programmer decided to name that shit) it works quite well, except when it doesn't.
I just make a folder named 'Start'
Fill it full of the shortcuts don't use quite enough to want them pinned to my task bar.
->subfolders work fine too, keep all the networking stuff in one, adobe stuff in another.
Click add toolbar from the task bar and add the Start folder.
Ta da. I now have a start menu. It's far more information dense then the metro interface. Contains everything that I feel I need and it doesn't make me run the mouse all round the screen to click what I want.
I have some formal training in HCI and a love of accurate terminology, so I have the ability to articulate problems with a user interface - I can voice my opinion and experience with weak design. A regular user doesn't have those skills, so they appear silent. The end result is that you call us IT types whiny.
"Less sophisticated users" aren't getting along fine. They struggle to use it and/or call for help because bad user interfaces (and arbitrary vendor changes) interfere with the creation of an accurate mental model of how the software is supposed to be used or what it's capable of. The confusion created in their mind is real.
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
Seriously, I don't... I still have my keyboard from 1993 because these new ones stink.
More seriously - I use my computer for work. Not kids, not watching videos, not games, WORK. Windows XP/7 is better at getting work done than Windows 8.
Hopefully microsoft pulls their heads out of their butts on this and allows a quick setting change to "I have no use for metro, thanks."
paintball
If it's improved, then it will work faster, use less memory/disk space, have extra features. "Getting used to" an "upgrade" should never NEVER be "ok, so how do I go about performing that task I've done every day for fifteen years?" It should be "Hey! I didn't have to do this, this, or that, I got it done quicker."
Microsoft has a sorry history of an "upgrade" being no more capable than the previous version, just UI juggling which gives the user a learning curve wothout increased functionality.
Free Martian Whores!
"Ordinary users"? I guess they're those who don't use a computer to get work done, and therefore would be better off with a tablet anyway.
They're right, I have learned how to quickly change the JPG and multimedia extensions back to opening with normal Windows programs in desktop mode, learned how to create shortcuts to useful, common things on the desktop in desktop mode, how to uninstall apps, and generally learned other nifty ways to stay off of that terrible not-metro-anymore interface. So they're right but it does sort of imply that we still hate their terrible design.
I just watched the first of those two videos.
I have had Windows 8 for about two weeks now, and I tell people that I hate it.
I agree with the GP here, that the problem is that it is not intuitive how to do anything.
I purchased Windows 8 Pro Upgrade and installed it. Aside from a single post-card sized piece of paper, it comes with no documentation what-so-ever. There are a few cues on the screen the first time, and that's it. I probably learned more from watching just that one video that from playing around with Windows 8.
My question is, "Why couldn't Microsoft provide a decent tutorial for new users?".
With the Windows 8 UI... because I'm still running 7. Fercryin' out loud, I just went to 7 from XP in June. They're smoking crack if they think I'm shelling out money to upgrade anytime soon.
I'm getting used to Windows 8.
Of course, I've had to buy third party apps to replace the start menu. Use Firefox since IE10 doesn't work on certain sites. Download the "soon to be not free" Windows Media Player, which was included with Windows 7. Oh and spend wads of cash on upgrading all my apps and utilities.
Now, I'm almost as productive as before I upgraded!
I would suspect that the tech savvy will have more trouble with the new interface simply because there is so much for us to relearn about it.
I doubt this. I'm not as savvy as many people here, but in the course of my life I've must have learned around 100 different GUI/UI schemes. Tech savvy people learn about the conventions and metaphors of UI, the universal bits, while non-savvy people learn the specific bits (click this, for this to happen). I don't have a problem with learning new UIs anymore. Sure, there is a learning curve, and my productivity suffers for a week or two, but generally I haven't found a UI I couldn't use after a bit. This isn't saying I enjoy using some of them, but I can learn them easily since I have tons of experience with tons of different UIs.
To a nerd, the only difference is graphics, placement, and flow, as the underlying systems are generally the same. To someone like my parents a misplaced icon makes their computer unable.
As for Windows 8, I actually think it is a superior mobile interface to its competitors. I really like it, and I love its aesthetics. I would have picked it up when I got my last phone, but for the lack of apps and development. I also am pretty locked in to Google, and don't want to have to repurchase things to duplicate functionality. I also don't trust MS in the mobile market yet. On the desktop... Ugh. Hidden elements are bad, as you stated, as is the touch/tablet scheme. Even if I had a touch screen desktop, I would hate it, since using it would be less than comfortable. And I'm really not keen on cleaning my monitor once a day, like I do with tablets and phone. The conventions don't translate well. They should note that iOS and OS X are different looking still, even if they are merging into a single OS over time (both in underpinnings and in function). Different forms require different conventions.
Though if there ever was a Kinect for desktops (supported, not hacked) that worked with Win 8, I'd probably give it a shot. I have an odd feeling that this is what they had in mind, but for some reason couldn't actually bring to market in time, so just steamed ahead in the typical MS style.
The only place in my house where Win 8 is going, is to my HTPC.
We spent half a month setting up a demo system with a Windows 8 laptop, and our engineers had a lot of trouble locating simple things like the Control Panel. It wasn't nearly that difficult for us to learn Mac OS or Android or iOS.
This isn't hard to believe. To MS's credit, they are trying something almost completely new. They are trying to create new conventions, instead of just modifying old ones. Win 95 is pretty much Win 7, at least from a GUI perspective. Win 8 completely breaks that tradition, so it screws with our inner "this is Windows, this is how it works) schema. They would probably have an easier time if Win 8 was a completely new product, not tied to an existing line, or history.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
In the end?
Still tastes like chicken.
Seriously. If this is the best language of encouragement that Ballmer can choke out of his throat, then you know there is a Vista-sized hole in Microsoft's delivery.
I know! Why don't we all get used to Ubuntu Unity and Libre Office? "Even with the rumblings, we feel confident that it's a moment in time more than an actual problem."
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Just two days ago, I saw a Windows 8 ad running on a laptop in a store display. It said "the desktop you are used to".
So, apparently the old Metro interface is so bad that Microsoft has decided to offer Windows 8 with XFCE. Well, either that, or they would just love to get fined for false advertising.
Those are Youtube tutorials by people unassociated Windows Development, their very existance reinforces the GP's comment about they needing to be an easier learning curve for a completely new way of interacting with a PC.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
The fact that this is an article tells how poorly thought out some of their design decisions are.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2012202/how-to-shut-down-windows-8.html
It's not difficult, but it's definitely not obvious or intuitive.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I have been using it for a couple of months now.
I hate it.
Maybe it is a Microsoft business plan:
1. Sell Windows 8 on a pre-loaded machine.
2. User tries windows 8 and hates it.
3. User purchases Windows 7 and reloads machine.
4. Double license fee profit.
The headline says people are getting used to it, not that they like it.
That'd by why I said "acclimitisation".
"adaptation to a new climate (a new temperature or altitude or environment)"
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Most people buy a PC and are stuck with the OS on it. So of course they need to suck it up and use it.
IE has a feature to let websites monitor all the mouse activity on your computer. Iâ(TM)m not sure why they left this open to everyone, I would think they would charge for this level of access.
Maybe afraid of another criminal charge? Does WA have a three-strikes rule?
I bought the preorder back in October, but only today have had time to deal with the big problems installing it. Tried to install it over a Windows 7 Pro system, and every time just as it was very nearly done, it bluescreened on some IRQ error and removed itself, going back to Windwos 7. Though at some point Windows 7 developed a Counterfeit copy error and became a problem itself. I then tried to install Windows 8 to a clean hard drive, which it did successfully, but then failed to activate/authenticate due to the previous failed installs. And it took an hour or two and 4 MS phone reps to get that cleared out and working as it should have the first time.
So my experience so far is not a happy one. Though I really haven't got to actually use Windows yet, or install applications or games or anything to run on it.
And luckily I made a backup of Windows 7 before I started any of this, so I have it in good condition as well, and can wipe the mangled copy hard drive to use for something else.
Do you really think that Microsoft would say anything else besides, ~the users are getting used to Windows 8's interface~. Let's be real here. You are not going to see anything from Redmond along the lines of, ~the users are still fumbling around trying to get Windows 8 to work for them~
Nothing more.
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
There ARE alternatives, ya know. You might not have ever heard any mentioned here on /. ;-)
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
I've set up laptops for a couple of family members. I tell them to avoid the full-screen apps. Seems fast, and they don't have any complaints at all.
Well, if the population being measured does not include the 'tech-savvy', the results suggest a pretty successful transition.
Let's face it, the most conservative grouches who most venomously oppose anything new in UIs and desktop environments are usually the "tech savvy" and them nerdier they are the more potent the venom. Just take one look at the angry tirades over Gnome 3.... Ok, so they changed Gnome, learn to like the new UI or fork the old one, it's not the end of the world. I'm a Mac user but I actually kind of like the new Windows UI, it's different and innovative. Microsoft deserves some credit for not taking the path of least resistance and aping somebody else's UI like Google did.
If you think putting a UI designed for a smart phone on a desktop is innovative and worthy of credit, then that is your opinion. However, unlike Gnome 3, where it is still possible to get work done, just differently, Metro is quite clumsy on a desktop. Picture a legal department in a large corporation or any place where the employees need to multi-task on several different projects, not just consuming data, but actually creating it. How does Windows 8 fit into that environment? It doesn't and neither would iOS.
What makes an OS successful is that the UI is tailored for the form factor of the device and the expected use. Windows 8 has the expected use of data consumption, not creation. That means it is fine for the xbox, tablets and phones, but it doesn't work well on dekstop/laptops. It is also designed for small screen touch devices, which again implies tablets and phones (and even xbox as they uses such large character sets, they are effectively small screens). Again, this doesn't bode well for desktop/laptops.
The desktop/laptop market is mature, there isn't going to be a lot of innovation there. All the growth right now is in the tablet and phone market. To compete there, Microsoft needed to do something to get the attention away from iOS and Android and Windows 8 does that. But to write off the desktop market seems foolish. It would seem a much better approach for Windows 8 would have been something like KDE did by having a common infrastructure but a replaceable UI on top of it (desktop, netbook and the new active). That way, Microsoft would have had Windows 8 desktop edition Windows 8 tablet edition and Windows 8 phone edition, but they would all have the same basic code base.
All they've done now is assumed that their corporate users will continue to buy Windows, but assumptions are dangerous and if Windows falters, so do sales of Office, which is their real cash cow. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that a major IT company could offer a thin client solution not based on Windows but accessing a Windows Terminal Server. That is, of course, unless Microsoft plans on giving up on the server business and implementing their server products all on windows 8, too.
"Obvious" and "intuitive" are not ways shutting down the start menu has ever been. First there was the whole nonsense of going to a menu labeled "Start" to shut down the computer. Not obvious or intuitive, but people got used to it. Then they changed the restart/sleep/switch user/hibernate options to fit inside a little arrow next to the very large shut down button. What a wonderful UI design: making the function you do maybe once a day large and easily accessible, and making the more frequent functions like sleep and log-off hidden and hard to click. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally shut down my computer due to careless clicking. Thank god Windows 7 asks you if you want to save work before shutting down.
Now, functions like power, sleep, and hibernate are supposed to be handled by automatic power options. Shutting down the computer is supposed to be something that rarely occurs; your computer is either supposed to sleep when you're not using it for instant-on access, and hibernate after extended away time.
Much more common functions like log off and lock have been moved far far away from the shutdown option into your account picture. In my opinion, this is a much more sensible and easily accessible place than where they were in the start menu.
Since not one of my co-workers or clients are on Windows 8 at the moment.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
There's a difference between "learning something new" and "making an ungodly mess of a previously clean interface". In our UI design classes we were told that when users have more than 7-9 options in one section of a menu, it starts to become less efficient. The ribbon is a mess that you really have to "learn" where everything is. With good menus you don't have to learn shit, you can just find what you want by looking at the headings. The few times I've had to use the ribbon bar, things have been in weird places. I've had to Google or ask someone. Whereas with all other new interfaces I'm presented with (Android or even iOS for example) things make sense. MS don't have a fucking clue when it comes to good interface design. The only worse offenders are RIM.
which is totally what she said
Agreed, but the fact that most interaction was from a simple pop up menu bar was obvious and intuitive.
If they called it something besides the Start menu, ie Windows menu, it would have been clear - this is where you start using Windows.
Also, I'm a bit frustrated using w2k12 in ESXi as the mouse goes off the console screen. Thus I have to precisely move my pointer to a corner, which makes using the corner popups much harder.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
With UEFI, The set things up so Linux can be locked out, but UEFI is too big and complex to be bug free, as a BIOS should be. Now, the customer pays the price.
MS is walling in their garden, but it's not their garden, but one they took from IBM, and gave and sold to the people in the form of an open hardware market, but now that Apple pulls things from that open market and makes money, they figure that they should just close up the rest of it.
With all the software money going through MS, the retailers that supported MS, are screwed. Big program such as games, such as Guild Wars 2 at over 20 GB will have to be downloaded byte for byte.
Microsoft learned nothing with their 2 prior bad releases: Windows ME and Windows Vista. They are spending too much time working to take marketshare through force and not enough time trying to please customers.
With a graphic suite and a CAD program, I have thousands of dollars of software--and not confidence in MS.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
"windows key->type what you want->launch desktop app == much faster than a start button. Always works for me quickly. "
Tried that, after typing MediaPortalFS2 (the entire name of the Windows shortcut except the .lnk) it still hadn't found it. A feature that only works some of the time on some of the stuff is not worth wasting any of my time on.
To add insult, it takes longer waiting for search to pop up a result window then select from it than to mouse a zigzag in the old Start Menu. Even when it finds the correct damn app it usually takes longer.
The only time I find search faster is when trying to remember where the hell they hid the settings I want in this iteration of Windows. That fails quite a lot when I don't think of the magic phrase they renamed things to. This is a feature that only looks good because it's papering over UI design faults. Lucky I can restore sanity with ClassicShell and layout everything in an optimal and discoverable way for me.
most techs-savvy users, or people who know what they're doing just click 'no' to any such data collection prompts so the sample is going to be severely skewed towards people who have ended up with this bundled and know no different.
So basically, the most computer-illiterate people are having an easy time with Windows 8?
If you can't convince them, convict them.
old laptop that doesn't have a multitouch touchpad. I am able to use it, but I find myself cursing
First-World Problems.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
How can you be a Mac user and like the new Windows?
Try putting a link to your Applications folder on the Dock - one click access to every app installed there.
I have my Applications directory on the dock, and I never use it. It's much slower than Alfred, or even Spotlight. It's nice for the Downloads directory, though, as I usually keep that pretty small. Any directory large enough to require scrolling, or any that has multiple subdirectories, is better suited for the Finder in column view.
The new Start/Metro interface is actually harder to get to & more complicated than the old Start menu.
It is because of comments like this that I am convinced most Windows 8 complainers on Slashdot have never actually touched Windows 8. You can access the start screen in exactly the same way as the old start menu. Either move your mouse to the lower left corner or press the Win key on your keyboard.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
But thanks anyway, Microsoft.
After all, we all more or less got used to BSOD's. Pressing Ctrl+S become a reflex so that we stopped losing much content. I still have the Ctrl+S reflex. Whenever the building starts shaking, my hands form Ctrl+S without even thinking about it. People think I'm a "Horizontal Catholic" or something.
Table-ized A.I.
I had problems with tiled windows on the desktop, with identical low contrast borders on all sides, spotting where one window ended and the next started was visually confusing. Same with working out where scroll bars were, thanks to no internal visual clues. Installing UxStyle and the XP style pack made an instant difference. Just having a distinct title bar and scroll bars that stand out makes an enormous improvement navigating complex windows and window collections.
Win7 Aero was undeniably a step too far, too visually distracting. Ripping it all out was an idiotic overreaction.
Apple's slogan:
"We make things easier"
Microsoft's slogan:
"You'll get used to it."
Table-ized A.I.
We have at present 973 devices in our organization, 589 of which are on WIndows XP.
Runs like a champ.
is that Win8 is an utter pile of crap. Windows 8 Pro might possibly be less crappy, and is apparently the version all of the pre-release 'you can get used to this' reviews were based on. But from the pointless non-locking lock screen that you can't disable, to the tiles thing to its ridiculous insistence on making documents full screen on a widescreen laptop, regular Windows 8 does nothing but get in the way of user. And I will be darned before I pay Microsoft another penny to remove some of the suckage they went to extra effort to ram in there. And so, my shiny new core i3 laptop is less useful than my 10 year old pentium-m/WinXP system, at least until I get some flavor of linux installed.
And once that happens, Microsoft, know full well that I will not be going back.
I have my Applications directory on the dock, and I never use it. It's much slower than Alfred, or even Spotlight. It's nice for the Downloads directory, though, as I usually keep that pretty small. Any directory large enough to require scrolling, or any that has multiple subdirectories, is better suited for the Finder in column view.
I don't go to the finder, just use the dock icon so I don't have to hid the app(s) I'm using. Doesn't seem any slower than trying to remember, or type correctly, the name of the app I want.
It is because of comments like this that I am convinced most Windows 8 complainers on Slashdot have never actually touched Windows 8. You can access the start screen in exactly the same way as the old start menu. Either move your mouse to the lower left corner or press the Win key on your keyboard.
Been setting up template VMs for win8/w2k12 so I'm somewhat familiar with them.
Exactly the same way? No, you can't. The landing area for your mouse pointer is MUCH smaller in Win8 than Win7.
Also, the start menu in Win8 is much less useful than Win7. Can you shut down or get to a specific control panel in Win8? No. Or at least not without adding each control panel to the start menu, making it much more cluttered.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Ordered a HP laptop for my son as a present. It arrives at work and my plan is to load up MInt 14 MATE but first I might as well make a recovery disk for Windows just in case I have to send the laptop for repairs.. Anyways I go through the normal first time install.
Well so I install it and I'm greeted with some weird screen that has boxes all over the place and I have to scroll sideways to see the rest. WTF? There's a reason no website scrolls sideways and just up and down. Ok ok maybe there's a reason for this madness. So I'm moving the mouse around trying to get some kind of a panel/menu. I get one but can't figure out where to get the programs menu. Also noticed something weird when I moved the mouse over to the corner, a small screen shots appears. I'm like WTF, OK?
Anyways I look online and find the menu to create the backups disk or in this case "5" DVD disk or a USB drive that requires min 20 gigs of space. WTF again? Christ most Linux distros are one DVD. Ok what ever, I go ahead and it says I can't use DVD-RW ony DVD-R, well fuck me.
Ok I give up and decide I will just get a 32gig USB drive later. I go do some work and I guess as I was turning around to my desktop the mouse must have moved to one of the corners and somehow the desktop appeared. Now I didn't notice this till about an hour later when I turn around and see the desktop there and the start screen is gone. So now I'm scratching my head as to what happened. Eventually I figure out that moving the mouse to the corner and clicking the small screen shot would flip me between desktop and start screen. BUT WHY?
So today I start the laptop and figure ok get the little screen shot in the corner to flip to the desktop. Well its not showing, mother fucker I think I'm gonna need beer for this. Eventually clicking on Norton AV brings me back and now I can flip back and forth.
Now I'm usually not too ani MS and I'm for using the tight too for the right job but where we have a swiss army knife where you have to pull out the scissors to be able to pull out the blade and you have to pull out the tooth pick to be able to close the scissors and blade.
WTF is the point of the start screen?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I specifically mentioned the Finder for document browsing, not apps. I wouldn't use it for apps, either (but neither do I use the dock).
The landing area for the start screen might be smaller, but I'd be surprised if most people didn't move the cursor to the old button the same way you move it to the hot corner--namely, by hurling the cursor into the corner. It's faster than trying to pinpoint a button (even a relatively large one), and you don't have to look at the screen to do it.
You can shut down from any screen in Windows 8, not just the start screen--but I will concede this is an area where the UI is obtuse. You can also shut down by hitting Alt+F4 on the desktop.
As for control panels: While I don't need to use them much, when I do, I just hit Win+W, then type in what I'm looking to do.
Maybe the reason I'm as pleased with Windows 8 as I am is that it's so keyboard-friendly. I hardly ever need to use the mouse when navigating the UI.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
In other words, if you know a lot of keyboard shortcuts, Win8 is great. Otherwise, it's a PITA.
Also, so is Unix.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
It's possible for many stroke sufferers to make nearly a complete recovery.
What power user would agree to such a thing?
It's just using my connectivity needlessly, and the anonymity in it is probably dubious.
Ways of shutting down a PC:
Hitting ALT-F4 on the desktop -- Still works.
Hit Control-ALT-Delete then choosing shutdown -- Still works.
Hit the power button on the front of the PC (Not hold, just hit) -- Still works (If it was configured that way).
And of course the way that pcworld describes as well is a new way.
Yep, still work. And still not obvious, unlike it was on the Start menu (despite its name).
At least now you can't shut down from the new Start menu.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
...is that I'm still using Windows XP (within an OSX/VMWARE VM) and that's what I expect to be using forever, because (a) I have all the Windows software I need, and (b) XP is sandboxed from the Intertubes so it can't fall and hurt itself. As well as keeping it in a fully backed up state, and only home to software and configurations, rather than my most important data, which lives under OSX, an OS which has yet to truly jump the shark.
I imagine there might in fact be a lot of people out there that want an OS that is essentially a surface clone of an XBox. But I don't. I want a computer that starts out right at the top with tools I can use to manipulate and examine the system -- not just a hotlink to twitter. Here on slashdot, I'm thinking I probably have a fair bit of company in that outlook, although I have no doubt many of you use something later than XP, but still not Windows 8.
It looks like this is a sea change, and that it might be inevitable. But I'm digging in my heels and will resist the dumbification of the desktop by MIcrosoft (and Ubuntu, for that matter) as long as I can.
I sure am glad I really went for broke last time I bought a computer. I think I'm safe from them trapping me with a new machine that an older OS can't boot on.
Ah, change. It isn't always pleasant!
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Actually, I prefer Unity to Metro. Not even close either. I'm not sure what that really means though ;)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
...and It Says You're Getting Used To Windows 8"
They're wrong. I've never even seen it.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
"Getting used to"?
"There's a cutover point, around six weeks in, where you start using the new things more than the things you're familiar with."
That's a lot longer than it takes for people to get used to *emacs*.
I never heard anyone "getting used to" iOS or even "getting used to" Android.
Although I have heard people taking time "getting used to" windows 3.0, unix shell, emacs, and gnome 3.
I believe when something takes any noticeable time getting used to, and it's post 1995, there's a very serious user interface design problem.
(That said, I could probably get used to Windows 8, if it decided it wanted to be windows 8 all the time and not pretend to be windows 7 when someone didn't want to redesign something.)
The first thing I did on Win 8 to make it useable was install one of the 3rd party start menus (Classic Explorer) and then move the desktop card to the top left hand corner of the sodomizing (q.v. above) and irrelevant (for non-touchscreen devices) Metro. Then you get something like the Windows 7 desktop back on boot and will never have to look at Metro again, unless it's on a tablet.
What an idiotic business decision it was to try to fuse these two very different use cases, shove it down the consumer's throat with a rolled up newspaper, and then totally omit the option to have a traditional start menu. Seniors will not cope but who cares about them, eh? MS are banking on kids just taking to Metro and then never learning what a start menu is.
Also strange that MS are duplicating the mistakes of numerous smaller companies who have worked hard to build something rather like Metro and then dismally failed in the marketplace. Stop force-feeding consumers what you think they have to have! I am dumbfounded at the stupidity of that decision.
I think the desktop metaphor is as optimum as it gets for usability on traditional boxes/laptops. Apple know that; they have had the brains to keep the desktop on OS X. MS doesn't know it or chooses not to. There is simply nothing better around for a non-touchscreen device with a keyboard. If there is, where is it? 'Coz it ain't Metro. It's all just about trying to move to the iOS walled garden model and shut down our choices and freedom as usual.
It appears the captured Jewish people are getting used to traveling by train...
I have two operating systems currently installed on my machine; the Windows 8 Enterprise Evaluation and something else entirely. The W8 eval was installed shortly after it was released. For a week I played around with it and then got bored, seeing no reason to continue on with it. Two things I have decided during my evaluation:
1. I don't like it. Used to it or not, I just don't like it. All I care about are a few programs, and they're not important enough to subject myself to Windows 8 to use.
2. I will be ordering my next computer from a company that doesn't preload Windows 8... probably System76, and wipe the default Ubuntu crap they install by default.
There's no way I'm going to support that monstrosity if I can help it, and I certainly won't be recommending it to friends either.
Of course it isn't the end of the world. Linux has many Window managers, so you just choose another one. On the other hand if could be the end of Gnome, as Gnome 2 was the default desktop on most distributions but almost to the man they have dropped Gnome 3 in favour of something else.
With Microsoft and Windows 8 the situation is a little different. There are no choices, nowhere for users to run to. I don't know how bad Windows 8 is because I've never used it, but if they have truly fucked it up it could be the end of the world for Microsoft.
BTW I've been thinking about it and I guess the thing is that your average Office user only uses a couple of functions, therefore obviously a UI which brings commonly used functions to the fore will be good for those people. They only have to go searching a couple of times and then they're set.
You can have commonly used functions showing up without having to use a retarded ribbon design though. The way the XP and Windows 7 Start menus work is pretty good design. The combined run/search function in Windows 7 is even better, bordering on genius for just getting shit done when you want to get it done. The ribbon sucks.
Actually that just made me realise that if they simply had a search function for commands in the ribbon that would solve the problems with the interface. After Googling I see that MS have indeed made a plugin to do that, which is basically an admission of how much it sucks trying to find stuff in that ugly mess. Funny how moving more towards a CLI style interface makes things much easier to use (and no, I'm definitely not one of these people that thinks everything should be CLI only, but I do find it very convenient for some things).
which is totally what she said
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm sure marketing has already done a report and they will plug in some so called statistics of this type to say that with Windows 8, Home users never installed anything outside of the app store and then the next windows will allow only Professionals to install non-store software.
And here we see they are already softening people up.
... get used to something I haven't used at all, due to a complete lack of interest, and that I will not use any time soon?
They're there in their room. You're on your own.
every single time a new version of windows comes out there will always be a small, yet vocal crowd stirring up the pot. "i have never used windows 8, but I KNOW it sucks". This is 100% a 1:1 mirror of the vista release. oh noo this UAC crap is everywhere oh no my life is ruined. never mind that a lot of the problem had to do with 3rd party developers not using the new UAC guidelines. a few months after vista, and people educated themselves, actually used vista, 99% of the UAC hate was gone. Now here we are doing the same dance all over again. While all you anal retentive's scream, whine, and throw a tantrum, everyone else is happily using windows 8 and enjoying it. I actually pity most of you who are turning 3 shades of red over your exclamations of how terrible some OS is that you have never used, or even given a real chance. anyways, i'l see you guys in windows 9, with the SAME metro UI still, or windows 10, or however long it takes you guys to get over your OS tantrum this time.
So opinions Microsoft is forming comes from "people using Windows 8 who have chosen to join the company's 'customer experience improvement program.' ". Isn't that automatically pre-sorting for the sycophants that love Win 8 or Microsoft in general? I hate these kind of programs and I think most users do too, so those who have signed up are already ready to selflessly help the folks in Redmond. I expect that means their tolerance for bad behavior is higher, their inclination to like the Win 8 UI starts strong and their willingness to be patient with fixes will be extraordinarily deep. If Microsoft thinks that's representative sample of the user population, they need to revisit their methodology. (Or move to the assumption that Win 8 is a niche OS with a small, cult following).
If Microsoft sincerely wanted to find out what's wrong and what's right with Win 8, they would PAY random users to spend the time to give them honest impressions about the user experience. Anyone willing to do that work for nothing has drunk way to much Win 8 Kool-Aid already.
... Just like Diarrhea!
Maybe it's not Windows 8 that is the issue. Maybe it's the technology. Mouse/keyboard/screen/windows.. nothing new.. When it comes to laptops... I'm bored. Nothing has changed in forever. I go to Best Buy and look around for something really new and interesting.. Oh look.. more laptops.. Touch screens? We were doing that on Macs back in the 90's with a cheap kit. I have Window's 8 on my 3 year old laptop and mostly I just hit escape to get back to Windows 7 look and feel, and do what I've been doing all along. But it's all boring.. really.. now my new Galaxy Note II phone, that's a little more interesting.. I can talk to it, touch it, shake it, you can smell the innovation in it!
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
Windows 8 is basically a tweaked windows 7 with a new start menu. I don't understand why people think windows 7 is for work and windows 8 is not professional enough to be used in a work environment. If you can get your work done in 7 than 8 should be no problem. For xp, vista, and 7 I never used the start menu I always found myself using a docking system to access my programs as quickly as possibly. In kubuntu or mint kde on my dual monitor I always created a third taskbar and just pin whatever program I want on to their and afterwards hide it. I actually prefer metro, gnome 3, and unity(basically a dock) over any of the old start menu taskbars.
When windows 95 came out people were reluctant to make the huge leap to a new interface and it was the same with xp, vista, 7, and now 8. It's same thing with people and software companies scared of moving from windows to a linux distro, mint is more stable and faster than ubuntu.
Does MSFT still think they're a monopoly? Really? They want users to get used to a phone/tablet interface, where they have a 2% share (? less?), so they put it on their desktop where people keep buying Macs these days every time they pull these boneheaded stunts.
The other huge thing waiting to be noticed is that there are Linux distros out there (e.g. LinuxMint) that take less "getting used to" for a WinXp user than Win8. The only thing saving MSFT is that Linux has no advertising budget. And we'd never agree on which distro to recommend.
When I first had access to Windows 8 through the MS Partner site I installed it on a workstation at work and placed it at a free desk. I asked my users to test it and let me know if they're interested in having it on their workstation. Not one reported back they want this OS. The only reason we'll keep it is for testing.
I'm not pushing this upgrade because I don't think the adaption downtime is worth it. I have some users that have a hard time with change and Windows 8 would kill them.
I just gave my girlfriend a new laptop which came with Win 8 pre-installed. It only took her 30 minutes before she asked me to "fix her laptop" and put Win 7 on it.
My studio - www.graylands.ca
From the linked article: "In the slide-out menu (known as the Charms Bar) "
Just shoot me.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Which is why, even w/ a hand me down mac I use an older, smaller windows machine to actually get work done. Also why KDE4 and Gnome seem like such a bad idea to me. I liked my customized KDE 3.5. I don't have three or four weeks to get use to a different workflow or a new "paradigm" or whatever crap Sergio is pushing today.
the old saying, "You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd."
Microsoft is in denial. It's a turd.
It's been great ever since. I use it all day for work with ease. All the FUD people were throwing about how terrible it was for desktops has not materialized. Turns out they were just fear mongering. I would recommend Windows 8 to anyone as long as they are willing to put in a few hours up front getting used to it.
The impression I get is that most of the people getting W8 at this point are actually just IT departments at companies. Most people are avoiding W8 still if they're using computers at all - most people are seemingly switching to Android and even Apple tablets for 'primary computing', because they meet their needs.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
i think its a matter of opinion: I hate 2 finger scrolling. I prefer the old-school edge scrolling. I also don't like the pinch to zoom thing on laptops. ctrl+scroll is way better.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
Also, I feel like its made for the current century
Wow, way to show yourself up as a marketing tool.
for new users, its more intuitive than endlessly searching menus
What the fuck are you talking about? So searching a big panel across the top of the entire screen is easier than some relatively well named menus? I don't think so. I don't want to play Where's Wally every time I need something new.
The best solution would just be a box to type in what you want, like the one in the Windows 7 Start menu. No stupid searching through icon soup.
which is totally what she said
So you are saying that Windows 8 is actually worse then Vista?
Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
"Obvious" and "intuitive" are not ways shutting down the start menu has ever been. First there was the whole nonsense of going to a menu labeled "Start" to shut down the computer. Not obvious or intuitive, but people got used to it. Then they changed the restart/sleep/switch user/hibernate options to fit inside a little arrow next to the very large shut down button. What a wonderful UI design: making the function you do maybe once a day large and easily accessible, and making the more frequent functions like sleep and log-off hidden and hard to click. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally shut down my computer due to careless clicking.
Exactly. People have paid billions of dollars to the creator of such a horrible UI. People want the refund of the wasted billions of dollars before they pay MORE to a company known for very bad UI. Creating such bad UI in the past gives no confidence to people that the new one is any better, or even that it is not worse in various aspects.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
I've been using it for a couple of days and most of my reponses to the changes have been "I can live without that" - I keep finding things that were handy but don't seem to exist any more (I say seem to, I might be wrong, I'm still exploring)
I keep hitting the left most icon on my taskbar by mistake when I want to launch an application. I'm trying the new launcher, but one feature I miss from the start menu is the ability for each application to have it's own submenu - of recently opened items, recently visited websites, or whatever. I don't see the equivalent functionality anywhere in the new interface.
I want to give it a fair shot before I go for a third party launcher, but so far my impression is that it'll do, but it's lacking features I took for granted.
Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
Perhaps you should delicately ask her if she found the start button yet, it could just be a face saving exercise like what MS is trying to pull.
No - first thing we did was sit down and work out whether she was going to use the Start page, or if I was going to go with a 3rd party Start button add-on. She decided to stick with the Start page. Seems to be working alright.
So you thought that Win8 was infinitely better?
Don't be so dramatic. A Windows user has two choices:
(1) Downgrade to Windows 7 or just don't move to Windows 8 in the first place. I have 32 and 64-bit ISOs of Windows 7 Ultimate with a Windows Loader activation tool which guarantees I'll be able to stick with Win 7 for as long as I like. I guarantee there's no chance you'll find yourself unable to use a program because it's Windows 8-only any time soon. Metro apps pale in comparison to full-blown Win32/.NET applications.
(2) http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57496506-292/how-to-get-the-start-menu-back-in-windows-8/
The above link lists several Start menu applications that, depending on the options you select, either complement the Start screen or replace it entirely with a Start menu (either classic or Vista/7 style). They can even be set to boot straight to the desktop, bypassing the Start screen entirely.
I recently had a chance to check out the system in a large regional medical center. Sho nuff...even the custom programs were based on XP Pro. Medical records and all!