Ask Slashdot: Why Buy a Raspberry Pi When I Have a Perfectly Good Cellphone?

scorp1us writes "I've been looking into getting a Raspberry Pi, but I end up needing a case, a display, and some way to power it, and wanting some degree of portability. It seems to me that even the most outdated cellphone has far superior features (screen, touch screen, Wifi, 3g/4g camera(s), battery etc) in a much better form factor. The only thing that is missing are the digital/analog in/out pins. So why not flip it around and make a USB or bluetooth peripheral board with just the pins? I've been looking for this and can't find any, but does anyone know of any in the corners of the internet? I don't care what phone platform."

Comments

Arduino Uno

[rwa2]

Done in one (pun intended)

Solid, lots of add-on modules, vibrant hacker community. And it has its own programmable processor so if your application permits you don't even have to have it attached to your PC to collect and process data.

Re:Arduino Uno

[gr8_phk]

He needs portability. The missing piece is a USB I/O board that plugs into your phone. Of course this means having a phone that can be the host device and not just the peripheral.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

At that price just buy the Pi for $5 more.

Re:Arduino Uno

[girlintraining]

Solid, lots of add-on modules, vibrant hacker community. And it has its own programmable processor so if your application permits you don't even have to have it attached to your PC to collect and process data.

Limited memory, slow I/O, slow processor, can emulate a USB device but can't function at anything resembling modern USB speed... This guy doesn't want another bag on the side, he wants something that gives him a spread of I/O pins and sampling options. And Arduino ain't that -- and he's right, there's nothing on the market that will give him a programmable DAC/ADC paired with a USB controller that can operate at the speeds of the current USB standard (v3).

It's not hard for an electronics engineer to slap some glue logic and a few chips on a homebrew board and do it, but for a hobbyist who just wants to play? Forget it.

Re:Arduino Uno

[chrylis]

Of course nothing's going to operate at USB v3 Super-Speed. You'd have to be running custom FPGA hardware to get anywhere close. On the other hand, the IOIO seems to be about as close to what the submitter wants as is practical with cheap hardware.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

The R3 has an ATmega16U2 which can act as a USB host. I've used it to create a windows USB host game controller out of a Nintendo Wii Nunchuck controller. Just plug and play and windows thinks it's a joystick - only it's my arduino talking to the 16u2 which then sends the proper usb messages to the computer.

Re:Arduino Uno

[50000BTU_barbecue]

What would a hobbyist that can't handle a few logic chips do with a super fast DAC/ADC? No offense, but this sounds more like a gee-whizz hardware equivalent of a warez dood. You want a DAC ADC combo? It's called a 5$ audio card. If you need multi GHz sampling you can't even begin to do that properly with only hobbyist-level knowledge and equipment. Unless you are into building sub-samplers. But that's a very esoteric niche that long ago broke the multi-100 GHz barrier, so it's inaccessible even for well-to-do hobbyists. Again, what for?

I have a 14GHz sub-sampling scope from the 1960s, it's fun to keep working as a hobby and it is part of my lab, but people who actually need such measurements need traceability which I can't provide anyways.

You are better off just settling down and buying a USB oscilloscope.

Re:Arduino Uno

[SQLGuru]

With an Android phone, you just need this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go

Buy one here: http://hakshop.myshopify.com/products/micro-to-micro-otg (site might be blocked at some work locations as they might think it's hacking related)

Re:Arduino Uno

[rwa2]

I have both... my dad gifted me a Pi B and an Uno. I'm having more fun with the Uno, since it gives you more analog/digital I/O options.

The Pi is certainly more powerful and capable... but anything I try doing with it inevitably leaves me wishing I had dropped a $100 more for an nVidia ION miniITX board that does a much better job pretending to be a "real" PC.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Curtman]

The missing piece is a USB I/O board that plugs into your phone

IOIO-OTG. It costs more than a Raspberry Pi though.

Re:Arduino Uno

[harrkev]

First, a disclaimer. I am not an Arduino expert. I have one and have played around, but am not a pro. Please forgive me if I make a mistake...

The big thing is that Arduino does NOT have Ethernet. Yes, you can add it on. I just built a small project for an internet-controlled power outlet. Raspberry Pi + an SD card (around $40 total) is significantly cheaper than an Arduino plus an Ethernet shield (around $60). Plus, the Pi can be programmed in your choice of languages (Python, Perl, TCL, C++, etc.) while the Arduino . Also, a web server on Pi is just an "apt-get" away. Don't get me wrong. The Arduino has its place too. Lots of IO. analog input, PWM output, etc. But the Pi and Arduino are different beasts with different (but somewhat overlapping) targets.

Now, the concept of using a phone as a general-purpose controller is interesting, if you can overcome the IO problem. If you can find something and cobble it together go for it. However, finding a steady supply of phones would be problematic. I could order a dozen Raspberries or Arduino boards in a moment. Using an old cell phone would require hitting garage sales or thrift stores looking for old phones that actually run something you can use (such an Android). I don't think that you can program older "feature phones." You probably need something with full-blown iOS or Android, and I doubt that an older iOS device is cheaper than a Pi. That leaves Android. If you only need one or two for a particular project, you might be able to swing it. Otherwise, you can't beat a couple of mouse clicks to get a proper development platform delivered to your door for under $50.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

What pun?

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia n900.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

How about older Pocket PC's that could be flashed to Android? I seem to remember some having a lot of I/O capabilities, especially some with "rich" docks/cradles. Hell, my old HP Jornada 720/728 can do a lot with JLime or Opie.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

one = uno.

But it's not done, 'cos the GP didn't read the requirements.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

He's talking about plugging a small arduino clone into the phone's USB host port and programming it to receive commands from the phone over the virtual serial port and twiddle the GPIO pins accordingly.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

Maple Boards uses arm processors instead of atmel. Maple Native have much more ram. Is as simple to program as the arduinos.

Re:Arduino Uno

[sir-gold]

Out of all the handhelds I ever owned, none got as much attention from random strangers as the Jornada 720. Everybody always wanted to know what it was (this was before netbooks and smartphones)

Unfortunately it looks like I missed out on the Jornada renaissance, as neither Opie nor JLime have been updated in years.

Re:Arduino Uno

[cruse.mike]

He needs portability. The missing piece is a USB I/O board that plugs into your phone. Of course this means having a phone that can be the host device and not just the peripheral.

I designed and built several I/O devices like this for myself, well to sell to other people really. The I/O mix for one of my boards is a follows: 4 "Universal" inputs (0-20VDC, Thermistor, 0-20mA, Binary state and 32 bit counter) 4 12VDC @200mA binary outputs 4 One-Wire sensor bus ports (Dallas/Maxim temperature sensors etc) 2 0-10VDC analog outputs RS485 port for multidrop network comms, i.e. Modbus/Bacnet etc CAN port for I/O expansion (multiple boards acting as one on a CAN network) USB device port for either firmware update (mass storage) or USB CDC serial comm port for config, direct I/O control Powered by 12VDC or 24VAC NXP Cortex M3 32 bit processor @120MHZ Primarily intended for building automation but still general purpose enough for many other things. I use then for lawn watering, door bell control, lighting. Has a basic expression parser for interpreted basic logic. Expressions can be stored in flash as can dynamically created user variables. Expressions can also be nested and scheduled for some level of automated behaviour. Everything is accessible via the USB serial connection. The problem is that even my cost for a board like this is many times the price of the cheapest Raspberry PI. But then having very little real world I/O (and large volumes) is how you can achieve a price like that. Anyway, if a phone can interact with a USB CDC device then it could control one of my boards. I am going to have to try that out myself now.

Re:Arduino Uno

[gl4ss]

he's actually just trolling to someone post links to cheap adk clones.
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardADK

basically it's an arduino that'll act as usb host so you can talk from your android phone to it.
or you can use bluetooth with some few dollars bluetooth dongle.

but the thing is, quite easily these solutions start costing more than a raspberry pi costs, so some simplicity and battery use are the advantages against that..

Re:Arduino Uno

[Joce640k]

but the thing is, quite easily these solutions start costing more than a raspberry pi costs

You can make one of those with an Tiny85 and a copy of v-usb.

Total cost: $1.25 for the chip plus some perfboard and wire.

If you need more I/O pins, step up to a Tiny84 or even a Mega328 (if you can afford a $3 chip!)

Re:Arduino Uno

[gshegosh]

And it's very easy to cheaply deploy Arduino-based projects. You don't need a 30 or 40$ prototype board -- just a few elements worth maybe 7$.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Joce640k]

You can get Arduinos for about $6: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=arduino+pro+mini

Or build your own for the price of a chip plus veroboard. Or don't bother with the veroboard, just use the chip.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Luuseens]

Sounds like you're mixing up 'USB Host' and 'USB Client' terminology. If you connected your ATmega to a PC and have it act as a USB joystick, it's a USB client device, not a host device. As far as I know, no Arduino supports acting as a USB Host in hardware. It can be emulated, or additional hardware (e.g. SparkFun's USB Host Shield) can be used, though.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Joce640k]

an Arduino plus an Ethernet shield (around $60).

You can get it for a lot less than $60 of you don't buy official Arduino hardware.

eg. A $6 Arduino clone: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=arduino+pro+mini plus a $12 W5100 module: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111025516885

(or use a $4 Ethernet module if you don't need the official Arduino Ethernet library: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=arduino+ENC28J60 )

if you can overcome the IO problem

You can build an Arduino USB I/O controller for about $1.25 with a Tiny85 plus a copy of v-usb

Re:Arduino Uno

[FridgeFreezer]

Have you *priced* Arduinos and their accessories? If you're comparing one against *any* cellphone from the Nokia 5110 upwards the processing power is lower, the IO is limited (no buttons, display, or wireless connectivity for starters) and you can fish the cellphones out of the trash or off eBay for almost nothing, probably with full-colour LCD, bluetooth, camera, maybe even GPS. The bigger problem is breaking into the phone & developing software on it.

In fact the Raspberry Pi is cheaper than a lot of Arduinos.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not hard for an electronics engineer to slap some glue logic and a few chips on a homebrew board and do it, but for a hobbyist who just wants to play? Forget it.

And that is actually the only problem isn't it? That the people who can create what he wants considers that solution to be inferior.
There is also no market in it since it would require a full scale production run to get it down to prices that are even close to that of the Raspberry.
The simple solution is that he has to learn how to build it himself but by the time he is done he will have ended up becoming part of the group that considers that solution unusable.

Re:Arduino Uno

[jeffmeden]

With an Android phone, you just need this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go

Buy one here: http://hakshop.myshopify.com/products/micro-to-micro-otg (site might be blocked at some work locations as they might think it's hacking related)

This is true, but not all phone hardware OR all versions of Android support USB OTG, in fact only handsets that are less than about 2 years old typically do. Check up on the phone and the compatible software before making any plans. Then, the question becomes is there a particular pre-built APP or even a stable API for working with the hardware I/O and to that I would suspect the answer is no (since the hardware itself is extremely scarce). Bluetooth serial is probably the only thing remotely close to this sort of application that already exists on Android, and that even has a pretty specific use case and would take some hacking to turn into universal I/O.

While it is definitely a worthy project for someone skilled in hardware and software, the "hobbyist" grade of accessibility of Arduino or Raspberry Pi put them way way ahead for someone who just wants to tinker a bit.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

yaaaay. hav a jornada. bought it for $100 in 2009. incredible thng.

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

(Supposedly) better yet: Arduino ADK: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardADK.
I don't have experience with the ADK board, but the Arduino UNO and Mega2560 are pretty nice for getting started with deep embedded development or making a quick hack for something.

Re:Arduino Uno

[marcosdumay]

It's not hard for an electronics engineer to slap some glue logic and a few chips on a homebrew board and do it

And who'll want to create a homebrew board, and mount the glue logic when one can just order a Pi and be done with it?

Seriously, the thing is cheap. Yeah, you can get cheaper if you use an already existing computer and do some extra work... But if you want it, it is because you are doing some kind of project, and that means you have an entire project to do that will compete with the USB GPIO for your time. And remember, the Pi is cheap.

Re:Arduino Uno

[harrkev]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I have only been to places like SparkFun and Adafruit. I still try very hard to avoid eBay whenever possible, so finding a reguar storefront that sells these would be nice, but I will keep this in mind. It does look like you would have a hard time putting a shield on the "Pro Mini" as it seems to be a completely different shape/size. Would the ethernet module that you linked to looks like it might be a standard size shield...

Re:Arduino Uno

[Joce640k]

I still try very hard to avoid eBay whenever possible...

Why? I've been buying stuff like that off eBay for about 15 years and never had a problem.

It does look like you would have a hard time putting a shield on the "Pro Mini" as it seems to be a completely different shape/size.

Yes, they're a lot smaller than an Arduino Uno.

An Ethernet module is only four or five wires though, not difficult to connect.

Re:Arduino Uno

[CBravo]

un

Re:Arduino Uno

[Wolfrider]

--Look into the Cubieboard; it has better specs than the PI, comes with USB power cord and SATA cable, and is capable of actually maxing out its 100Mbit Ethernet:

http://cubieboard.org/

Re:Arduino Uno

[Anonymous Coward]

With the Rapsberry Pi, you get access to a high speed processor with lots of RAM, Ethernet, and linux (filesystem, etc.), which makes it easy to write programs. Ad d an ADC board like this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/254558907/data-acquisition-system-for-raspberry-pi?ref=live and you can control it directly from the Raspberry Pi - so you get the best of Arduino (analog interface) and the Raspberry Pi at once.

Re:Arduino Uno

[EBorg]

I just learned about the Raspberry Pi last month and was excited with what it offers for a reasonable price. Q: if you get an ADC board, do you have to write code to control it and "talk" to the outside world? What are we looking at in terms of cost for a Pi, ADC and other components to start?

Re:Arduino Uno

[solaryang]

I found Remote Scope and Spectrum Analyzer applications that looks quite easy to use, without user programming. If one is interested, it looks like there is API for user programs.

Re:Arduino Uno

[tsan357]

Let's see - the Pi costs $35, you'll need an SD card, and the ADC board costs $35, so it's probably about $70 but you get a lot more than an arduino - (i.e.: you won't worry about memory, you can run a web server, etc).

Re:Arduino Uno

[recharged95]

Why not a android phone and the ADK board? Sort of the best of both worlds with a sacrifice in footprint..

Re:Arduino Uno

[EBorg]

The scope and analyzer apps seem like naturals for the Pi. Are these from the same or multiple sources? Can you give me the links?

Re:Arduino Uno

[EBorg]

Really like the idea of the Pi being network accessible. I have a couple of SD cards that I can use, but would have to get an ADC board. Haven't really looked at the information resources on the Pi site, but I get the impression that it's fairly straight forward to set up once you have the basic components. Are there any Pi-specific info resources (blogs, forums, groups, etc.) other than here that you could recommend? (Sorry, I'm new at this.)

Android development kit

[Tim the Gecko]

How about this? - http://www.adafruit.com/products/885 - IOIO Mint - Portable Android Development Kit

Re:Android development kit

[ntw1103]

1UP. I was just going to suggest this, but you beat me to it. I asked myself the same question, and ended up buying the IOIO board. It works. :)

Re:Android development kit

[csumpi]

+1. IOIO is an amazing piece of hardware. A whole bunch of io ports, plus your phone already has a screen, storage, battery and reliable wifi.

Re:Android development kit

[rwa2]

Ooh, awesome! The IOIO-OTG someone linked to below is the only rev I can find in stock anywhere, though...

Re:Android development kit

[chrylis]

Came here to recommend the IOIO, specifically the OTG version (which will happily work with a standard computer as a USB peripheral as well). It also has connections for three separate I2C busses, and (unless someone can point me to an existing one), I'm in the initial stages of building an Android app to manually send I2C messages to chips for development purposes.

Re:Android development kit

[chrylis]

The OTG is the latest IOIO. Ytai is still working on crazily trying to pack even more features on the thing (apparently, his goal is to fit in every single sort of IO that the ATmega is capable of), but the OTG is the current state-of-the-art.

Re:Android development kit

[chrylis]

And I've been spending too much time in Arduino-land lately. The IOIO is running a PIC (which can be reprogrammed if you're feeling frisky).

Re:Android development kit

[mjwalshe]

Yeh have you looked at PIC programing not exatly exactly kid or newbi friendly - and the pi effectively runs the full Linux experience arduinos and mobiles don't and if you can afford a smart phone and is monthly bill you can afford a pi.

Re:Android development kit

[Nikker]

How about checking ebay for some used Android phones? If you don't need the screen you can get a bunch of great deals on old nexus/htc phones, otherwise you still find loads of phones for under $50. Do some research on which ones are root-able and have USB OTG and you have some pretty decent flexibility with WIFI, Bluetooth, video out, GPU, dual core, etc,etc.

Re:Android development kit

[Anonymous Coward]

you can get an android phone with equal specs of the pi, except the GPU, for $40 no-contract.

Re:Android development kit

[chrylis]

I've programmed PICs in both C and assembly. Anybody who's looking at programming an Android phone in Java should be able to handle basic stuff on one. But there's a reason I put my "if" in anyway.

You don't appear to have read or understood the OP's question: He isn't looking for "the Linux experience" (whatever that is), he just wants a GPIO breakout box for a phone. The IOIO is that and just happens to be modestly hackable in its own right.

GPIO

[hammarlund]

Your cell phone does not have an interface bus that you can use to control devices.

Re:GPIO

[RabidReindeer]

Your cell phone does not have an interface bus that you can use to control devices.

Mine does. Three of them. Bluetooth, WiFi, and USB.

Re:GPIO

[hawguy]

Your cell phone does not have an interface bus that you can use to control devices.

Yeah, that's why he said that when he wrote his question:

The only thing that is missing are the digital/analog in/out pins. So why not flip it around and make a USB or bluetooth peripheral board with just the pins?

And others have pointed out some solutions that do just that.

But they tend to cost about as much (or more) than just buying a Pi in the first place.But if you want the built-in camera and display like a cell phone, then going with an old cell phone + a USB I/O board might be more cost effective than procuring a quality touch-screen display and camera for the Pi.

Re:GPIO

[Anonymous Coward]

Wifi, Bluetooth, cellular signals...

Re:GPIO

[rusty0101]

In addition to bluetooth, wifi, and USB, HTC phones with the proprietary interface that initially looks like a mini-USB interface, well is a bit more. USB is included, but it also has audio i/o, as well as serial I/O that is accessible on pins on the connector. If you're concerned that you don't have i2c or even mimo/miso options, you're probably right, but a tremendous number of android phones do have host capable USB ports, and can control Arduino Uno's as serial devices that way, or Arduino Leonardo's and Esplora's as USB devices directly, and through that path has access to all of the IOs available on those boards, (including I2C.)

Re:GPIO

[Dahamma]

Seriously? Come on...

Those are high level protocols requiring software and OS support, etc. GPIO basically gives you register-level access to pins that you can do whatever you want with, which is extremely useful for an educational/DIY board, of course.

Re:GPIO

[WWJohnBrowningDo]

Read the question, please.

The only thing that is missing are the digital/analog in/out pins. So why not flip it around and make a USB or bluetooth peripheral board with just the pins?

Re:GPIO

[mijxyphoid]

If only I had mod points, I would mod you up :)

Agreed ! Your phone is not based on open hardware, so yes, if you just wanted a small form factor device that you could program, that had a screen, network capabilities, some form of input, etc, then yep, an existing phone solution would be perfect for you !

However if you wanted to access raw IO busses such as GPIO, I2C, Serial data lines, etc, then you will be facing an uphill battle trying to reverse engineer a closed hardware solution. (Not that it isnt possible, its just your time would be better spent elsewhere)..

The cool thing is that there are lots and lots of options out there, depedning on your needs, each one has its unique pros and cons.
The hard part is deciding what you want, and how much time you are willing to invest in getting what you need !

Re:GPIO

[RabidReindeer]

Good point, you can use a rapberry pi for that board.

Or you can see my other suggestion, which was a catalog page for a USB-to-GPIO board.

Re:GPIO

[Joce640k]

Good point, you can use a rapberry pi for that board.

Or use an Arduino chip which is dime-sized, has 1% of the power consumption of a Pi and costs 5% of the price.

(eg. a Tiny85 )

USB - Bluetooth

[Anonymous Coward]

So you want someone to create brand new technology for "the most outdated cellphones" to plug in USB and bluetooth? You want them to make the software for those outdated cellphones to communicate with that hardware also?

Re:USB - Bluetooth

[RabidReindeer]

So you want someone to create brand new technology for "the most outdated cellphones" to plug in USB and bluetooth? You want them to make the software for those outdated cellphones to communicate with that hardware also?

It would have to be pretty outdated, indeed. I have a circa-2005 Windows phone that came standard with USB, bluetooth, 802.11b, and infrared ports. I used a Bluetooth keyboard on it, and the IR could be used as a TV remote control.

Ironically, the cellphone radio blew out, so I had to buy a new phone (which does NOT have IR capabilities. And a more limited Bluetooth stack that won't talk to the keyboard). But the rest of that old phone works just fine, including the WiFi part.

Depends on use-case

[StealthHunter]

If your use-case is "leave attached to my TV" then a Pi makes a lot of sense. If you want to have a resilient case, be portable, have a small screen attached, etc, then maybe a phone makes more sense.

Re:Depends on use-case

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Another thing to consider is the community. Using some random phone, may have a small to medium sized community built up around hacking it. The Raspberry PI has a huge community built up and continuing to build up around it.
Also the phones cheep enough for hacking tend to be ones that are out of production, so getting another one, 6 months down the road may not be easy.
I am a fan of the Raspberry PI, but that doesn't make what I have written wrong.

Re:Depends on use-case

[alvarogmj]

Well, I have a RPi and a MK802, and the MK802 ends up being cheaper for this use case. The cost of the Pi, plus cable, sd card, a case, and the HDMI cable ends up being higher than the MK802. And the MK802 runs Android, meaning lots of apps ready to use. For me, the RPi is a cheap home server. And even on that use case, the MK802 with Linux is a better machine

Re:Depends on use-case

[Pseudonym]

This.

The features of a Raspberry Pi are:

1. It doesn't come with a battery, wifi, GPS, screen etc. You only pay for (in both price and power consumption) the features you need.
2. It's really cheap. This means that you can destroy it and not feel bad about it. You can't say that of your mobile phone.

If what you actually want is a PDA with custom peripherals, then your perfectly good mobile phone may well be perfectly good. If you want something else, then a Raspberry Pi or Arduino may be better.

Re:Depends on use-case

[Osgeld]

it doesnt make a ton of sense there considering you can get android sticks that work out of the box that do everything a TV packed pi does after fucking around with it

Re:Depends on use-case

[node 3]

If your use-case is "leave attached to my TV" then a Pi makes a lot of sense. If you want to have a resilient case, be portable, have a small screen attached, etc, then maybe a phone makes more sense.

This is the right answer, and demonstrates the nonsense underlying the OP's question.

This nonsense is that there has to be only product. Sometimes you want a cell phone, sometimes you want a Raspberry Pi. Sometimes you want Arduino, some other microcontroller, a full-fledged Linux box, an iPad, a PC, whatever.

The awesomeness is that all of these things exists and can be used. So why artificially limit things? No one needs to justify the RPi to anyone else. If it speaks to you, it's for you. If it doesn't, move along to something else that does. This fanboy bullshit mindset needs to stop.

Re:Depends on use-case

[Joce640k]

All that applies a dozen times over with Arduino chips.

You can build an Arduino I/O device with 5mA power consumption for about $1.50 (with USB).

And it'll be far more electrically robust than a Raspberry Pi.

Re:Depends on use-case

[Pseudonym]

Arduino and RasPi complement each other very nicely. With Arduino, you get a microcontroller, not a full computers. This means that Arduino is cheaper than the RasPi, but has less computing grunt. (Well, apart from the Due, which is more expensive than the RasPi, but has less computing grunt.)

We're very lucky to have two platforms. It's good for innovation and good for us. Indeed, many hobby projects use both; a common setup is Arduino for hard real-time control and sensing and RasPi for high-level logic and communication.

Pearls before swine?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't figure out why a Raspberry Pi might be a more useful computing platform than a cellphone....you're not the target demographic.

You're a consumer. Go enjoy your shrink-wrapped toys.

Re: Pearls before swine?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't figure out that the asker has already figured that out that they're not the Pi's target market, and isn't questioning the Pi's utility for its target market, you're not insightful.

You're a fanboy. Go play with your Pi.

Re:Pearls before swine?

[sootman]

If you can't be bothered to read the summary carefully enough to see that you're putting words into his mouth and that was NOT the question he asked... you are Slashdot's target demographic. (Judging by the fact that at least 4 mods so far agree with you.) Um, stay right where you are, I guess, and keep stabbing that 'reply' button.

In case anyone wants to break with tradition and not reward factually incorrect posts, the OP said/asked... "It seems to me that even the most outdated cellphone has far superior features... in a much better form factor. The only thing that is missing are the digital/analog in/out pins. So why not flip it around and make a USB or bluetooth peripheral board with just the pins?" See? SEE? He wants to hack... just a like a proper Pi owner!

Re:Pearls before swine?

[Nemyst]

And this, dear friends, is why geeks are often considered to be antisocial.

Re:Pearls before swine?

[csumpi]

Enlighten us, please.

Re: Pearls before swine?

[node 3]

The AC makes a great point. If you're not the target market, then move along to something better. You're the one taking the fanboy stance that you have to advocate for a solution that someone doesn't want.

If he doesn't want the Pi, then what's the motivation, other than fanboyism, to convince him otherwise? I have two RPi's and enjoy them immensely. They are small, self-contained Linux PCs with an easily accessible GPIO header and can be easily interfaced with the real world. Yes, an Android phone could do the same thing.

Only a fanboy would tell anyone else they are doing it wrong. I love my Pi, he loves his Android. Everyone's happy! Why fuck that up?

Re:Pearls before swine?

[Anonymous Coward]

All these things are shrink-wrapped toys. If you didn't design the board yourself, you're a consumer.

You might not need one, but...

[mr_goodwin]

I'd have had trouble doing this with a cellphone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_c9cxoM8tg

Part of the usefulness of the Pi is *because* it lacks those things; you have the option of adding what suits your application.

Re:You might not need one, but...

[wonkey_monkey]

How long did it take to potty train that little guy? Straight to his newspaper!

it sounds like this

[Anonymous Coward]

It sound like something like this is what you are looking for, I have no experience with it

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11343

even the most outdated cellphone

[jibjibjib]

I don't see what the point of this claim about the "most outdated cellphone" was. Even among new phones, there are models without touchscreens or wifi, and if you start considering outdated technology at all then your claim becomes even more inaccurate.

Re: even the most outdated cellphone

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a brand new cell phone in January. It doesn't have a touchscreen, wifi, or 4G.

Re: even the most outdated cellphone

[hawguy]

I don't see what the point of this claim about the "most outdated cellphone" was. Even among new phones, there are models without touchscreens or wifi, and if you start considering outdated technology at all then your claim becomes even more inaccurate.

Using my keen powers of recognizing context, I've deduced that he meant "Android smartphones", he wasn't talking about a basic feature phone that doesn't run android and doens't have a screen, touch screen, Wifi, 3g/4g camera(s), etc.

Re: even the most outdated cellphone

[Anonymous Coward]

What "context" are you talking about? There's absolutely no mention of Android in TFS, and in fact he says, "I don't care what phone platform."

Re: even the most outdated cellphone

[hawguy]

What "context" are you talking about? There's absolutely no mention of Android in TFS, and in fact he says, "I don't care what phone platform."

The context comes from knowing that he's talking about a programmable phone platform that has a touch screen, camera, etc - customizable enough to allow a driver for a USB I/O board to be loaded. There aren't many phone platforms that meet those criteria, and an feature phone is not one of them.

Only a nitpicking pedant would say "Hey, wait a second, he said "Cell Phones", but the Nokia 1100 has no camera, a monochrome non-touch screen display, and no known SDK to allow custom apps to be developed for it, so that proves that any old cell phone is not what he's looking for, so obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about!"

You want an Arduino, not a Raspberry Pi

[BitZtream]

An Arduino will get you pretty close to a box with pins attached to a USB cable, though the USB cable is emulating a serial port.

A Raspberry Pi is like an original iPhone with the screen removed a few ports added and all the Arduino GPIO features built onboard so you get GPIO support built in.

Re:You want an Arduino, not a Raspberry Pi

[scorp1us]

I have an Arduino. I need way more things than that can handle. Wifi for example.

Re:You want an Arduino, not a Raspberry Pi

[gl4ss]

I have an Arduino. I need way more things than that can handle. Wifi for example.

and some old android would have that.. that's why the article is about interfacing an arduino and an android.

XBMC Media Server

[Anonymous Coward]

You can load XBMC on it to stream your videos etc to. It can be mounted on the back of the tv, etc and XBMC can be controlled via smartphone.

Re:XBMC Media Server

[rusty0101]

Actually, if you select the 'outdated' hardware correctly, you can do all of that with a used cell phone. Several have HDMI out through an adapter for the USB interface, and some of the latest have wireless video capabilities as well. xbmc has been ported to the Android platform.

Now that's not to say that it's the best solution in anyone's book, but my experience with Raspberry Pi is that it makes a mediocre xbmc interface as a front end to something like MythTv. It is capable, just as a 3/4 ton pickup is capable of hauling more than 5 tons if it's done right, but in my experience it's not really the right tool for the job. The real power of the Raspberry Pi comes in figuring out what you can do with it that no-one else has done. At some point people have made their own dropbox alternative with the platform, which tells me that the system would work well enough as a plug server as well. household environmental management seems like a reasonably trivial thing to work out, though you'll have to create your own vent management system to be able to control air flow for thermal regulation in some cases. I can see someone developing their own home surveying system using poles, hoses and water level sensors, then capturing the property topography and feeding it into their own CAD software to figure out how they want to do building projects, how much earth will have to be moved, where it might go, etc. Then hand off the same Raspberry Pi to their daughter who builds a scanner using nothing more than an led and photo-resistor, and a couple of stepper motors to move the sensor they built. Or use a few rotary encoders and a button to build their own 3d scanner.

Note, I'm not saying that using a Raspberry Pi as an xbmc set top box is a bad idea, just that there are a lot of things that you can do if you get out of the mindset that it's an entertainment device and recognize that it is so much more.

Re:XBMC Media Server

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Note, I'm not saying that using a Raspberry Pi as an xbmc set top box is a bad idea, just that there are a lot of things that you can do if you get out of the mindset that it's an entertainment device and recognize that it is so much more.

That is the point I try to make to people but it seems like a lot of it falls on deaf ears. The Pi is just another tool with its own feature set and price point. For one of my projects it seems like an ideal solution since what I want is to create a survey quality GPS system so I need something with more processing power than an Arduino could provide. So for about $300 to $350 in parts plus my effort I can build survey quality GPS system with base station and roving unit that would have cost me at least $15,000 to buy. Additionally once I have that basic setup I could invest a bit more money and effort to create a fully functional navigation unit on top of it that would be capable of turn by turn directions using a program like NavIT or GPSDrive (I need to look into these a bit more but one should be a reasonable fit).

Don't ask: why buy X?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no need for something, and want reasons to buy it? That is stupid. When you have some need, ask what can fill it. If you want to know why other people buy something, ask that.

Re:Don't ask: why buy X?

[Anonymous Coward]

You either didn't even read the summary, or your reading comprehension is lacking...badly.

Looked at this

[transporter_ii]

For a little scada type application. You probably could do what you want to do, but the easiest way to do it would be to make it connect to the phone via bluetooth. It seems that you can't just connect things to the USB ports on a phone and access them the way you think you could. But if you use bluetooth, it's one more wireless point of failure and you have to look at getting power to your board instead getting it from the phone. Didn't appeal to me and just dropped this idea.

More open access to the usb ports would be cool, though. If an alarm tripped...it's already connected to a device with a SIM card in it.

Re:Pi has better hosts file support than most phon

[Anonymous Coward]

So I have a anonymous post that does not get though, but this does?

ioio

[Anonymous Coward]

I am using ioio boards for several projects and in my opinion they beat Arduino both in price and usability. They can be used through the slave USB port of the phone or via bluetooth.

Re:Pi has better hosts file support than most phon

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh shit, the hosts files have become self-aware and started hacking accounts.

Captcha: vibrator

wtf

[Grashnak]

I haven't been paying attention. Can someone explain what this escaped mental patient has been doing here the last couple of days?

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

Last few days? He's been posting this stuff since 2009 or maybe even earlier.

Thread from July 2009:

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1300193&threshold=-1&commentsort=3&mode=thread&cid=28672163

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

April 2006:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=183258&cid=15140197
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=183258&cid=15140261

He was downright mellow back then.

It's interesting to watch the evolution over the years -- longer and longer posts, more and more bolding & other random formatting.

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

That's apk he's far more mellow because this guy is someone trolling apk

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume the poor bastard has gone off his meds again recently.

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not really sure why the folks that run slashdot can't give us some method of collapsing those posts by default to something reasonable, it takes quite a few seconds to scroll through all of that bullshit.

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

>apk
>mellow

You having a giggle, mate?

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not really sure why the folks that run slashdot can't give us some method of collapsing those posts by default to something reasonable, it takes quite a few seconds to scroll through all of that bullshit.

My current tactic is to search for Martial arts. Though I'll need to change it soon I guess.

Re:wtf

[jones_supa]

Last few days? He's been posting this stuff since 2009 or maybe even earlier.

So is the "$10,000 challenge" guy the same person as "apk"? At least a few months ago "apk" wrote almost sane comments, has he forgotten to take his medication again?

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't matter. APK-parody technology has advanced to the point where it can pass the APK Turing Test, so there's no longer any measurable difference between real-APK and fake-APK. The APK Singularity is upon us.

Re:wtf

[gl4ss]

it's the new gnaa fad.
maybe it's apk, maybe not. beauty for him is that he can claim credit for the sane posts.

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

What sane posts?

Peripheral boards

[RabidReindeer]

"I've been looking into getting a Raspberry Pi, but I end up needing a case, a display, and some way to power it, and wanting some degree of portability. It seems to me that even the most outdated cellphone has far superior features (screen, touch screen, Wifi, 3g/4g camera(s), battery etc) in a much better form factor. The only thing that is missing are the digital/analog in/out pins. So why not flip it around and make a USB or bluetooth peripheral board with just the pins? I've been looking for this and can't find any, but does anyone know of any in the corners of the internet? I don't care what phone platform."

I think this might be adaptable. Although its original intent was as an XBee interface, the catalog explicitly states it can be used for USB-to-TTL. Presumably by tapping the points where the ZBee's GPIO pins break out:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2159285_-1

Because you need your phone as the remote.

[tuppe666]

I'm not sure why the comparison with a cellphone. Currently I'm using it as XBMC and using my Android phone as the remote. It was a toss up between the Pi and the ultra cheap AndroidTV dongles that are kicking around (Why I think AppleTV is dead on arrival), and overall I couldn't be happier stupid setup errors aside [power supply too weak on the pi to power the usb; couldn't get wifi working on the minimal distribution?] Otherwise its incredible, and using the phone as a remote control has changes my life.

There are a few compromises with the pi [512 memory & missing sata] otherwise I'm overjoyed with the source. Killer feature, you mess up you wipe your card and your good to go.

The bottom line is your old phone is less versatile with less support, but its great at being a phone...which if its the task you want go ahead. Otherwise its such an incredible strange question.

Re:Because you need your phone as the remote.

[macshit]

The bottom line is your old phone is less versatile with less support, but its great at being a phone...which if its the task you want go ahead. Otherwise its such an incredible strange question.

I think it's not really an unsurprising question though. Highly functional phones are relatively new (especially in the U.S.) and thus very fashionable now, and have sort of come to occupy a mental slot as the "do everything solution"—even though they're actually pretty bad for many tasks.

In some cases, of course, the poorer functionality of a phone-based solution is acceptable, and using a device one already has offsets the problems, but I think even in cases where this arguably isn't true, people want it to be, and so tend to try and justify a phone-based solution anyway.

Re:Because you need your phone as the remote.

[darjen]

I use my android phone, a galaxy s3 that I recently picked up used off contract, as my media device. Before that it was my galaxy nexus that I also got second hand. When I get home from work I plug it right in to my tv with hdmi. With my bluetooth keyboard and trackpad I'm good to go. I don't need to use the phone as a remote when I have a trackpad.

IF you primarily use it as a media device, and you already own a fairly recent smartphone, there is no need for a Pi or Apple TV or anything else. If you want to build robots and circuit boards in your spare time, then go with a Pi.

Re:Because you need your phone as the remote.

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, because he didn't say ANY-DAMN-THING in his original post about using it for a PVR, apparently YOU have a pi YOU are using as a PVR and therefore you think that that is the only use case for a small portable connected computer that one can access/program one's self.

Re:Because you need your phone as the remote.

[Anonymous Coward]

The pi does not power the USB. The 5V power supply plugged into the pi does.

The Emperor's new post

[Anonymous Coward]

Only fools can see the host file rambling posts. I most definitely don't see them, do you?

RaspberryPi USB suxx

[koaschten]

It regularly manages to crash the USB stack if you put load on the USB stack, so considering that the LAN on the RaspberryPi B is connected to said USB...

Re:RaspberryPi USB suxx

[Anonymous Coward]

Recent firmware changes (some still in test) have pretty much fixed all/most of the USB issues. So USB problems should be a thing of the past on the Raspberry PI. That said, many people don't have any problems with the USB as it stands anyway. Depends on what you plug in.

Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[hamster_nz]

You should look at the other ARM boards out there e.g. pcDuino. More memory, more I/O, onboard flash, Linux or Android.

However there are some things that you can do with a micro-controller that can not be done with a full OS - e.g. bit-banging I/O to one-wire temperature sensors. I've even used a full USB 1.1. HID driver implemented completely in software, which would be impossible with an full OS running!

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[Dahamma]

However there are some things that you can do with a micro-controller that can not be done with a full OS - e.g. bit-banging I/O to one-wire temperature sensors.

Why couldn't you do that with a full OS? I did something just like this under Linux almost a decade ago on a set-top with BRCM SoC. You can even do it in userspace if you mmap the BRCM GPIO registers. Same with a HID driver (BRCM's was implemented in software in a kernel module... kind of a CPU hog, but it worked fine). Even their V.34 modem was implemented in software (ugh).

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[Anonymous Coward]

From memory, one wire sensors keep a tristate line pulled down for 15 microsecond to send a '0' and 60 microseconds to send a '1' (or something like that). So the master has to pull down the line, release it and then time how long it takes to return to '1'. A whole frame of bits needs to be received without error for the CRC to check out. This takes around a millisecond.

Interrupts, tasks switches, drivers, memory paging, other tasks all get in the way of this. It might work most of the time on an idle CPU, but on a busy single core system it will be a problem. If you are using the kernel GPIO interface (where each read of the pin takes multiple syscalls) you have very little chance of a reliable solution.

However, on an Arduino (or some other microcontroller) this is all a piece of cake - you just need to find the right tool for the job..

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[marauder]

Check out http://learn.adafruit.com/reading-a-analog-in-and-controlling-audio-volume-with-the-raspberry-pi/overview which I happened to be reading about 5 minutes ago. I'm not familiar with the One-Wire protocol but you can certainly bit-bang good ole analog sensors on the Pi. In Python, even.

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[marcosdumay]

Interrupts, tasks switches, drivers, memory paging, other tasks all get in the way of this.

That's why Linux still has a universal lock. You take hold of it, do your thing, and release it.

Of course, you'll have to write kernel space software, just like you'd do with the arduino, anyway. The only difference is that since the arduino ha no protected mode, all your code is in kernel space.

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because an operating system is compete overkill for something that low level, duh.

That's like writing a test suite for a hello world app... Overkill.

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[Dahamma]

Or just use a simple UART or other sort of buffered interface (in the case I was talking about that support is built into the SoC, where you are toggling register bits to do what you want, not writing to a GPIO wire directly). You could definitely disable interrupts and lock the kernel for 60us to get the right timing (if this is the only purpose, that's fine, otherwise that's a LOT of cycles to disable interrupts).

Re:Better choices than a Raspberry Pi.

[Dahamma]

The POINT is it's a general purpose SoC-based platform that does a LOT more than just talk to a temperature sensor, etc. Why put a whole extra microcontroller in a design when you can just put in a UART (or possibly already have buffered support from the SoC).

If the only point of the design is to talk to a sensor, using a real OS like Linux would be stupid, of course.

Re:AC Rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Good job failing.

Re:Pi has better hosts file support than m ...apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Now there am proof that UID 137 is the FRAWD

I will block him with custom HOSTS file
APK

Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to use android.

Works for some, not for all

[tepples]

plus your phone already has a screen, storage, battery and reliable wifi.

That's fine if one's phone is a smartphone running Android. A lot of people especially in the Americas and western Europe carry an iPhone, for which development of accessory hardware is far more expensive. And a lot of other people carry a dumbphone and a separate other device because too many U.S. wireless carriers appear to refuse to activate a voice-only plan on a smartphone: CDMA2000 carriers don't use a CSIM in that country, and some GSM carriers are known to forcibly change the user's plan if the SIM is used with a "smartphone" IMEI.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[chrylis]

If you choose an iPhone, you're knowingly going with a locked-down platform that explicitly forbids hobbyist accessories: "I want to develop an MFi accessory for personal use. Can I join the MFi Program? No."

The submitter, on the other hand, specifically stated "I don't care what phone platform."

Re:Works for some, not for all

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people especially in the Americas and western Europe carry an iPhone,

Why would you market a geeky product to a bunch of old queers?

Some of the geekiest people I know are old queers, trollolol.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[csumpi]

Even if you are stuck in the apple lock down, you can buy a used android phone on fleabay or craigslist for under $20. And $20 is not a lot of money if your ultimate goal is to work on some homebrew robotics or electronics project, trust me.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[grouchomarxist]

For $55, you can get the Redpark TTL Cable for iOS. More information here: http://www.redpark.com/c2ttl.html

Re:Works for some, not for all

[grouchomarxist]

Redpark has gone through the MFi program so we don't have to.

I mentioned this in a different post, but if you want to experiment with iOS accessories you can get the Redpark TTL Cable for iOS. More information here: http://www.redpark.com/c2ttl.html

Re:Works for some, not for all

[Anonymous Coward]

OP said phone platform was not a consideration he cares about.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[Dexter Herbivore]

Some of the queerest people I know are old geeks.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[Anonymous Coward]

By "alot carry iphone" you actually mean "less than 15% worldwide use iphone's and iphone's are becoming irrelevant as a platform" right? No one that uses an iphone is taken seriously nor can they be expected to know how to program. Iphones are for losers that think it is a fashion statement to have one when in fact it is the exact opposite. See someone with an iphone and every is laughing inside at you. Get what the majority of the world uses, 76% of the world uses android which is open, programmable and superior in every way.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[Joce640k]

That's fine if one's phone is a smartphone running Android. A lot of people especially in the Americas and western Europe carry an iPhone

You're probably not in Apple's target demographic if you enjoy attaching mint tins to your telephone.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[MachineShedFred]

Yeah, and by "no one" you mean "just about every Fortune-500 business" right?

Android zealouts are even worse than Apple zealouts sometimes.

Re:Works for some, not for all

[tepples]

I'd imagine that fewer than 15 percent of the world are employed by a business on the FORTUNE 500 list and in a position to carry a company phone.

IOIO

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11343

I haven't used this newer version, but have successfully used the original IOIO to do the sorts of things you're talking about. GPIO pins, A/D, various serial buses, etc.

Cost?

[techhead79]

Because one of them doesn't actually cost 35 bucks to produce.

Re:Cost?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because one of them doesn't actually cost 35 bucks to produce.

An used Android smartphone is now around $50 on Ebay, and more processing power than the Raspberry Pi.

I used to think the same way, until I actually got a Raspberry Pi. After the SD card, wireless card, case, and all the other parts, it ends up to be over $100. A smartphone has just as much potential as a Raspberry Pi.

-ac

Why buy a vacuum cleaner when...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I have a perfectly good dog?

I've been looking into getting a vacuum cleaner, but I end up needing some bags, elbow grease, and some way to power it, and wanting some degree of portability. It seems to me that even the most tiny dog has far superior features (self motivation, voice control, cuteness, long tongue, empties itself etc) in a much better form factor. The only thing that is missing is the desire to eat all the dust in the carpet. So why not flip it around and make a training program or breeding system to have them do it? I've been looking for this and can't find any, but does anyone know of any in the corners of the internet?

I don't care what breed of dog.

Raspberry Pi is jail broken

[Mabhatter]

You get a tremendous amount of control on you little Raspberry Pi. You can't get THAT on your little cell phone. Also, by the time somebody wires up a special board, for EACH specific brand phone (cause they all have "special sauce") it would cost most of the cost of the Pi and be half as useful.

Like other people have said, most phones have no HOST capability over USB. So you would need some kind of chip to do the talking to another useful chip that can DO SOMETHING. Your back to $20-$30 unless you want to solder yourself....

That is the thing here... If you're complaining about making your own case and battery holder you're clearly not in the marketbfor this stuff.

Re:Raspberry Pi is jail broken

[Microlith]

Err no. The Raspberry Pi is not "jailbroken." It was never crippled in the first place. It's basically a standard PC except with an ARMv6 CPU on a board the size of a credit card.

I suppose the point of my comment is that computers have to be deliberately designed to be crippled and locked down, in contrast to the standard state of a computer.

Re:Raspberry Pi is jail broken

[AAWood]

I think the parent knew that, they was just trying to explain things in terms that would make sense to someone who thinks an old phone would make a wonderful hobbyist computing platform.

Teensy 3.0 maybe?

[Misagon]

If all you want is a USB and a bunch of pins with it, then the Raspberry Pi is overkill where a simpler microcontroller board would do.

One example of such a board is the Teensy 3.0 USB Development Board. It has a 48MHz ARM cpu (Cortex-M4), is only 1.4 by 0.7 inch large, has 28 pins and a micro USB port.
By default, it gets its power from a host computer, but you could also wire up its own power supply. There is also an optional Micro-SD card board for storage.
However, I don't think that it would run Linux like the Raspberry Pi, only your own code.
It is definitely in a small form factor.

Re:Teensy 3.0 maybe?

[lenski]

Teensy would be tempting to anyone who has already done embedded development in the ARM microcontroller world. Insufficient memory to run any Linux, but plenty of flash and RAM to run any of many deeply embedded RTOS. Looking over the reference manual shows that the chip's peripheral blocks are powerful, including what appears at first read to be a pretty snazzy DMA controller.

I've been seriously considering it as a target for developing a communication front-end for a project at work. Previous experience is with a Cortex-M3 (Atmel AT91SAM3U) which was a great MCU to work with. GCC is available and I've been able to do all development on Linux workstations.

The price at PJRC, $19.00 can't be beat.

http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/index.html

Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, I'm sorry the Pi wasn't invented in America.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

The Pi's problem isn't that it wasn't invented in America, but that its USB controller is broken in its Broadcom SoC hardware, as the Raspberry Pi Foundation acknowledged many months ago. This won't ever be fixed until they switch to a different SoC, so if you need fully functional USB then this is a showstopper.

Re:Sorry

[Miamicanes]

The Pi's problem isn't that it wasn't invented in America. The Pi's problem is that the only way to get one in America is from a distributor who imported it from Britain (paying import duties to the US) from a distributor who imported it into Britain from China (paying more import duties, and probably VAT, to the EU and Britain), ultimately shipping it halfway around the world, then halfway back... turning it into a $29 board with ~$60 worth of shipping charges & taxes.

If Rasberry would just get a fscking local in Shenzhen to sell them on eBay & ship directly to the US from China, they'd cost ~$35 here instead (China-US shipping is practically free, and the US Customs agents responsible for scrutinizing packages from China alleged to be "samples" worth "$10" seems to have permanently gone to lunch).

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell are you talking about ? You can get the Pi here for $35+ shipping from element14. Quit trolling.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations on "inventing" a couple generation old smartphone without a display.

Re:Sorry

[Miamicanes]

> What the hell are you talking about ? You can get the Pi here for $35+ shipping from element14. Quit trolling.

Yes, and it's the "+ shipping" part where the RPi folks have totally fucked up, dropped the ball, and basically screwed the pooch in every meaningful way possible when it comes to American fulfillment logistics.

OK, so the shipping charges have gone from being "criminally expensive" ($40 "plus taxes" a year ago, and you can read abundant angry complaints that the "plus taxes" usually ended up being around $10-20) to just plain "rip-off expensive" (approximately $15 for slow ground shipping) as of a few days ago.

The fact of the matter is, they either don't have the slightest fscking clue how to cost-effectively handle American shipping logistics -- open an Amazon Marketplace account, ship 50,000 boxed Pi boards straight to their warehouse from China, let Amazon handle the fulfillment, set a price that includes free Amazon Prime shipping at whatever price makes RPi's organization the same per-board profit it makes now, and call it a day. Or, as mentioned in my previous post, pay someone in China 25 cents per board to sell them on eBay and ship them straight from China (with real-world shipping charges that are something like $2.60, and no import duties or sales taxes that anybody I know of has ever actually seen on stuff bought on eBay from China).

Either that, or they somehow get pleasure from the knowledge that they picked as partners the two most fucking expensive electronics vendors in the entire USA, despite the fact that companies like Mouser and Digikey (whose shipping charges are pretty much "whatever discounted wholesale rate FedEx/UPS/USPS charges THEM") would have totally *wet* themselves to be able to buy them at wholesale price.

Newark/Element14's "prices" look reasonable... until you see their shipping. Then it all goes up in flames. There have been 4 or 5 times they've induced me to go far enough to get to the checkout page, only to angrily close the browser window in disgust after seeing their inflated shipping charges.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

The Pi is no longer manufactured in China btw (well, at least not most of it). It's now done in the UK:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1925

I think you have a point though. It would probably make sense to get some kind of manufacturing going in the US, assuming that the costs for manufacture are reasonable enough.

Re:Sorry

[Xest]

If it's any consolation it's even worse the other way around. USPS wanted to charge me $76 just to ship a jewel case CD once and I'd have had to pay another $30 import duty including their "admin fee" if the customs guys this side decided it needed import costs on top.

Needless to say I didn't buy.

Re:Sorry

[Miamicanes]

$76?!? Was that "international ExpressMail" (next day from US to Europe), with a box larger than a padded envelope? I've found USPS-RoyalMail between the US & Britain to be pretty decent, though UPS & FedEx *do* seem to be a lot more expensive.

The two most expensive countries I've found have been Germany & (surprisingly) Canada. Shipping *anything* to or from Germany is slow (customs-wise) and expensive. To/from Canada is just outrageously expensive... it's like they add up the maximum domestic chargss for both sides, then tack on another 50-100% to cover the cost of putting it in a truck and driving it 5 miles to a post office on the other side of the border. In contrast, China apparently handles the shipping on their side, then flies them to FedEx's sort facility in Fairbanks and hands them over neatly pre-sorted by destination and service class.

Netherlands to US FedEx is surprisingly good... not much more than what you'd pay for Miami to San Francisco, and fast. FedEx seems to just treat the Netherlands as if it were Hawaii, and handles everything from end to end.

Australia to US sucks. Not hugely expensive, but the slowest shipping that's existed since the invention of aircraft. 30-60% of the stuff I've ordered from there seems to spend 3-10 weeks in transit limbo... officially 'in transit', but ${deity} only knows *where*. It's like they just let stuff pile up in Australia until they have "enough" (with no firm schedule), then charter a cargo jet, load it up, and dump it in USPS's lap in California whenever they happen to get around to it.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had the exact same experience but as a canadian I get to see additional brokerage fees/duties and a shipping charge that doubles the cost of the unit. I was really excited to get one to play with. Now whenever I see Raspberry Pi posts I rage quite my browser.

Re:Sorry

[Xest]

"$76?!? Was that "international ExpressMail" (next day from US to Europe), with a box larger than a padded envelope?"

Not sure what it was exactly, but it was from GameInstitute some years back when I wanted to learn a bit about 3D Studio Max and their course looked pretty decent, the courses themselves weren't exactly cheap as is, but when it turned out I had to pay $76 just for shipping of a CD I just gave up on the idea, IIRC there was actually a more expensive option (maybe with UPS?) that I believe was even more ridiculous, something like $126 which I just couldn't fathom, it's not as if I was ordering an elephant and again, these values were definitely just for postage alone as the postage element was dynamically calculated separately from everything else.

"The two most expensive countries I've found have been Germany & (surprisingly) Canada. Shipping *anything* to or from Germany is slow (customs-wise) and expensive."

I don't find Germany slow to/from the UK, but I do find it expensive. It seems to be because DHL basically has their mail system tied up such that everything seems to be a courier delivery, 17 euros seems to be about the minimum postage I get from there which is far more than much of the rest of Europe. Normally equivalent postage to/from elsewhere in Europe would cost about 5 euros at most. France isn't much better in this respect though- you seem to have a choice ordering something to the UK of either the typical 3 - 5 euro postage, but extremely slow (3 week delivery, rather than a few days to/from other places in Europe for the same price) or Germany style courier prices.

Two countries I've found to be surprisingly good have been Brazil and Malaysia. Brazil I've sent/received seeds to/from a botanist friend at a university there and it's been about a 2 to 3 day delivery time and only cost me £1.95 for a standard A4 (roughly letter in the US?) sized padded envelope. Malaysia I paid something silly like £0.30 and had an orchid specimen arrive in under 48 hours which was frankly incredible - better than the postal service I get internally in the UK a lot of the time.

Re:Sorry

[Miamicanes]

It's really disgraceful how inefficient package delivery is in both directions between the US and Canada. Instead of treating each other like alien postal systems, USPS & CanadaPost should work together to treat each other's major regional sorting facilities like their own, pre-sort outbound items (ie, a package from Toronto to Miami would get transported directly to Jacksonville by CanPost, and a package from Miami to Montreal would get sorted and flown to Dorval by USPS), and reduce their operating costs (& pass along the savings) so that, worst-case, the cost to ship a package either way between the US & Canada would be equal to a comparable domestic shipment (or, worst-case, the more expensive of the two countries). It's not like Canadian mail carriers make enormously more or less than their American counterparts, so why should it really matter if a letter/package that gets dropped into a mailbox in Buffalo gets sorted onto a truck driving ~2 hours to Toronto instead of ~2 hours to Boston? Add up the total letters/packages delivered by USPS for CanPost, subtract the ones delivered by CanPost for USPS, come up with a fair marginal cost for the remainder if the volume ends up being hugely asymmetric, and let everyone be happy on both sides.

Oh, right... I forgot... both governments make shitloads of money by cooperating to screw everyone in both directions, while trying to blame it all on the other. Sigh.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see why Element14 or RS's shipping charges are the fault of the 'RPI folks'. They have nothing to do with it. The RPI people have ensured that the base price remains at the 25/35 price point, but they really have no control over the shipping charges that the distributors charge (except to complain to them is they are overly high, which does happen). Accusing the Raspi people of not have a clue on something they don't even handle is plain wrong, so you argument should be against Farnell/Newark and RS, all companies who are very experienced in this sort of thing. Note the Farnell and RS do ship large batches of Raspberry PI's to the USA and then distribute from there. AND also note that the majority of Raspi are built in the UK, NOT CHINA, and the proportion still made in China is decreasing.

Mouser and DIgikey are US companies, the Raspberry Pi foundation is a tiny UK charity, and at the time of launch, with no evidence of whether the product was going to be a success, had very little bargaining power with distributors. If the deal were done NOW (hindsight being what it is), I'm sure things would be different, but at the time RS and Farnell were the best (and only) options.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

Hm. I bought my pi for $35, with $5 shipping.

RPi has a sizeable niche

[mike449]

It makes sense to use RPi when you need ALL of these:
1. Linux toolchain and lots of available packages (open source)
2. Develop on the device itself
3. Once the application is ready, disconnect screen/keyboard and use remote SSH if necessary
4. Low cost

The cost of an USB IO expansion board is typically higher than RPi.

A computer

[DogDude]

What is the point of these things when the market is awash with cheap used computers? Why not grab a laptop for $100 that'll have much, much more functionality than one of these bare bones kits?

Re:A computer

[blacksmith_tb]

Oh sure, but the RPi draws about 2W idle, less than 5W if it is really working overtime. Plus it's fanless and silent. It makes a nice little headless server for lots of things. And even used, cheap laptops aren't often under $50...

There is no reason to

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought one and it is vastly inferior to your typical microcontroller for interfacing purposes.
It is vastly inferior to your desktop PC for running Linux, even compared to an older junker PC.
It sucks compared to your phone for connectivity and interfaces (e.g. touch screen, network, GUI etc).
So really there is no reason to buy one.
Also they are not really stable. I left mine sitting in X over the weekend and came back to find it frozen.

Received an iPhone as a gift

[tepples]

If you choose an iPhone, you're knowingly going with a locked-down platform

Not everybody who uses an iPhone chose an iPhone. What should somebody who received an iPhone as a gift do?

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Microlith]

Sell it and buy something they can use as they see fit? I hear Apple fans gibber on constantly about the resale value of their devices, so you should be able to get a good price I suppose.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[drooling-dog]

I'll field this one. You could (a) sell it and get something you can do what you want with, or (b) forget about the hacking and learn to be happy with whatever Apple lets you do with what you've got.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Logger]

Monthly contract, suckiest gift ever.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[tepples]

I hear Apple fans gibber on constantly about the resale value of their devices

Is the resale value enough to pay for the ETF plus a new Android phone?

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Anonymous Coward]

Monthly contract, suckiest gift ever.

mod up funny/insightful

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[BBTaeKwonDo]

The gift could have included paying the contract, or the gift could have been of an unlocked, no-contract phone. Nobody said it was an inexpensive gift...

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Pulzar]

Are you saying someone gave you an iPhone and locked you into a contract? What a thoughtful gift! Here, I'll buy you this thing that you will have to pay for yourself for next two or three years, I hope you enjoy it!

I don't know what the ETFs are these days, but I'm sure sale of a new iPhone will cover it -- used iPhone 4s 16GB still fetches almost $400 on ebay.

You're on your own to get a phone that better suits your needs after that, though.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Anonymous Coward]

The gift that keeps on taking.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[T-Bone-T]

iPhones have a strong resale market. I've had several unsolicited offers in the last few weeks to buy my iPhone 4S.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[tigersha]

Yes. I just did exactly that. Sold an iPhone4 on EBay (2+ years old) got a Galaxy III. And made 200 Euros profit too.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Joce640k]

Not everybody who uses an iPhone chose an iPhone. What should somebody who received an iPhone as a gift do?

Sell it on eBay?

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Joce640k]

Did they wink while they made the offer?

Asking to "buy" an iPhone is the 2013 equivalent of asking strangers for the time while openly displaying your own wristwatch.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[T-Bone-T]

If that's what makes you happy, sure, they winked. BTW, this was outside the States in a country where iPhones are a little harder to come by.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Anonymous Coward]

If you choose an iPhone, you're knowingly going with a locked-down platform

Not everybody who uses an iPhone chose an iPhone. What should somebody who received an iPhone as a gift do?

Throw it away because it is useless?
The iPhone is not a substitute for an Android phone (Or any other reasonably open portable device.)
My semi-broken glasses do not have a battery, they make sure that I can read text but I am not retarded enough to think that I would be able to use them as a substitute for Google Glass.
The iPhone is not made to be a hacker tool, it mostly works as the toy it is intended to be but the general answer you get when you ask if it can do is that no reasonable person would like to do that anyway.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[tepples]

Are you saying someone gave you an iPhone and locked you into a contract?

Yes. In the situation I envision, a parent may have bought an iPhone for a high school student and added the iPhone's contract to the parent's family plan.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you're out nothing stfu and go get the hardware you need. It's like people expect everything for free.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[tehcyder]

If you choose an iPhone, you're knowingly going with a locked-down platform

Not everybody who uses an iPhone chose an iPhone. What should somebody who received an iPhone as a gift do?

Wow, talk about a First World Problem.

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[tehcyder]

Shouldn't the precious snowflake just be fucking grateful their doting parents have given them an over-priced unnecessasry toy?

Re:Received an iPhone as a gift

[tehcyder]

Did they wink while they made the offer?

Asking to "buy" an iPhone is the 2013 equivalent of asking strangers for the time while openly displaying your own wristwatch.

Is this some elaborate gay code for random strangers who want unprotected anal sex, or something?

Ask Slashdot:

[Anonymous Coward]

Why have sex with a woman when I have a perfectly good hand?

It's also fine if you have an iPhone

[SuperKendall]

A lot of people especially in the Americas and western Europe carry an iPhone, for which development of accessory hardware is far more expensive.

Only if you plan to sell it. If it's for personal development, just jailbreak the phone and connect to the serial port pins of the dock connector as per this SO post.

Obviously anyone looking to build custom hardware can handle the simple task required to hook up to it.

Optionally of course, you can do anything you like with Bluetooth LE without any licensing from Apple - and commercial apps are allowed to do BTLE communications in the background because of the low power consumption. That's what I would start with as an approach unless you need more bandwidth for some reason.

Re:It's also fine if you have an iPhone

[Microlith]

Yeah, just jailbreak. And enjoy the cat and mouse game with Apple as they try to stuff you back in the box with each update.

Bluetooth

Which adds a nice layer of complication to a project.

No, the answer is to not use iOS devices. Apple obviously doesn't want you to.

Re:It's also fine if you have an iPhone

[tlhIngan]

Yeah, just jailbreak. And enjoy the cat and mouse game with Apple as they try to stuff you back in the box with each update.

Then don't. You don't HAVE to jailbreak to do personal development - if you don't mind spending $99/year, you can sign up for a dev certificate and write your own programs. You can have up to 100 devices as well.

Run your own code, no need to jailbreak.

Not that Apple has ever forced anyone to upgrade. You're free to NOT upgrade. iOS just pops up a dialog ONCE saying an update is available. It hasn't yet gotten to the point where Apple forces someone to update. You can ignore every update request and continue to run old versions of iOS.

No, rebooting your phone will NOT force an update, either. Nor will waiting a week mandate an update. Just ignore it and it won't force it.

Re:It's also fine if you have an iPhone

[MachineShedFred]

Or, jailbreak and then don't update until a new jailbreak is available?

Who's putting a gun to your nutsack and demanding you push the install button?

Re:It's also fine if you have an iPhone

[tepples]

if you don't mind spending $99/year, you can sign up for a dev certificate and write your own programs.

It's still $650 to get started to replace one's computer with a Mac mini, and the kind of people who get an iPhone as a gift (namely high school students) don't have that kind of money to throw around.

Rasberi Pi != cellhone

[davydagger]

1. price- no cell phone is that cheap
2. better documented hardware with FOSS drivers.(NO cellphone has FOSS drivers, or firmware). In fact its hard if not impossible getting firmware extracted, or proprietary binary drivers for a general purpose OS for your cell phone.

Its not like desktop OSs, where you can just download the latest nvidia or ATI drivers for linux from the vendor

3. Cell phones are made for android which is NOT a General Purpose OS, and can be restrictive.

4. Rasberri PI by default boots from an SD card, making running whatever OS you want, without hacking easy. There is also no need to root it.

5. the Rasberri PI also has hostmode USB ports, for plugging devices in, your phone most likely does not, if your lucky OTG.

6. There are other ARM protoboards and dev boards that are not the PI which have ARM class CPUs. Most of them run any OS you put on them. RasPI is not the first nor will be the last.

Re:Rasberi Pi != cellhone

[Anonymous Coward]

Wish I had mod points.

Re:Rasberi Pi != cellhone

[Narishma]

It's called Raspberry Pi.

Re:Rasberi Pi != cellhone

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of arguing with the guy, why don't you consider either answering his question or keeping your mouth shut? The Slashdot community continually amazes me in their closemindedness and utter disregard for others possible use cases, consdiering only their own in any situation, like the idiot who thinks this guy wants his cellphone to be a pvr... He already HAS a cell phone so buying one is not necessary. so your point #1 is therefore moot.

For your other points, I am glad you have found a new religion called Pi to embrace but please do pull your head out of your fourth point of contact and think about others needs when others ask a question and explicitly state their needs?

You're missing the point of the Rasbperry Pi.

[galimore]

http://pyvideo.org/video/1668/keynote-2

Maybe you'll still feel like the Pi isn't for you, but contrasting the Raspberry Pi against a cell phone is missing the point entirely, and it detracts from the purpose of the project.

Re:You're missing the point of the Rasbperry Pi.

[scorp1us]

No, I'm not. I understand what the Pi is, But my point is that is if far better displaced by a used cell phone. How many people do you think are passing over a 1g to buy new hardware with less bells and whistles?

Ask better questions, get better answers

[inglorion_on_the_net]

Why Buy a Raspberry Pi When I Have a Perfectly Good Cellphone?

Because you can install your own operating system on your Raspberry Pi, but not on your cellphone?

Because you want to support the Raspberry Pi foundation?

There are many possible answers.

It seems to me that even the most outdated cellphone has far superior features (screen, touch screen, Wifi, 3g/4g camera(s), battery etc) in a much better form factor.

If the combination of those is what you're looking for, then maybe you want a cellphone. Why are you comparing a cellphone against a Raspberry Pi?

The only thing that is missing are the digital/analog in/out pins. So why not flip it around and make a USB or bluetooth peripheral board with just the pins? I've been looking for this and can't find any, but does anyone know of any in the corners of the internet? I don't care what phone platform.

What are you going to do with it? How are you planning to do it? You don't care what phone platform? Don't you at least want one that you can run your own code on? Preferably with enough privileges that you can actually drive your shiny peripheral?

Here's the thing: Tell us what you're trying to do, and maybe we can help you, possibly by giving some recommendations for hardware to work with.

As it stands, your question is more flamebait than helpful. You're stating that you think even outdated cellphones are superior to a devices that some of us really like, without stating what purpose you think cellphones are superior for. That gives us little opportunity to be helpful, and plenty of opportunity to feel slighted.

Re:Ask better questions, get better answers

[scorp1us]

You've got the best reply by far. I think you hit on a really good point - the operating system. With a Pi, I'm running standard linux. With Android/iOS I'm using their SDK. It could be good or bad. It's somethign to learn.

I'm comparing it against a RasperryPi because I'm aware of the Ardruino and the Pi and they are made for the hacking community. But the cellphones aren't and given the fact that we're returing these devices every two years there is a _HUGE_ market of very capable hardware out there.

I have several projects - from OBD2 projects to water control (on/off with a flow meter). I can do the water control except for configuring the device flow amounts. So add on some way, and with WIFI I can rig up some rudimentary web interface and write a file on the Pi. The ODB2 project needs GPS and WIFI and a display. I've been shopping around and I keep having to buy more and more addons and I realize, I have 2 iPhones and and Android (2.3.5). So why am I just not using them? Oh right, no hardware pins...

Others have suggested something called an IOIO, which looks to be exactly what I'm looking for.

My question isn't flamebait at all. If you're threatened by outdated cellphones being superior to hardware you like, then that's your problem. The irony here is that a six year old device with multiples of computing power and storage is going for $0.99/$1.25 on eBay (iphone 1g/Aria). The only thing it's missing are the IO pins and the open OS... The irony is that IO pins are cheap.

So let me as you this, wouldn't it be far better for you to get the IOIO and an Aria for your projects? You wouldn't be limited by your hardware. You could give a GUI, even a basic status one.

(Admittedly the IOIO is a bit expensive. I'd figure it'd run about $5, but there's a considerable amount of implementation to bring in USB OnTheGo, and all that to work around the manufacturers not implementing host mode in phones from 6 years ago...)

Re:Ask better questions, get better answers

[chrylis]

To be fair, the blame regarding OTG lies mostly with Intel, which explicitly designed USB to be a master-slave protocol (requiring a host PC) to compete with FireWire, which is peer-to-peer and has a layer 2 that looks more like Ethernet. OTG actually does put the phone into host mode, but there's negotiation required so that the phone knows which state it's supposed to be in and two OTG-capable gadgets can still operate correctly with OTG-oblivious hosts.

Re:Ask better questions, get better answers

[inglorion_on_the_net]

You've got the best reply by far.

You honor me. *makes a bow*

I think your idea of taking advantage of hardware that you already have or can cheaply obtain is a great one. And if you need GPS, WiFi, and a display, some cellphones will give you all these out of the box, whereas the Raspberry Pi won't. So if your choice is between a $1 device plus a $5 add-on, or a $25 device with probably much more expensive add-ons, it seems like a no-brainer.

So let me as you this, wouldn't it be far better for you to get the IOIO and an Aria for your projects?

For your projects, this would seem to be the case. For what I do (hosting website, software development for Unix, IRC, text files and spreadsheets), there isn't a cellphone that I'm aware of that is as nice to work with as my Raspberry Pi. My N900 comes close, but costs a lot more.

Really, it all depends on what you're trying to do.

26 I/O Lines and a Lot Cheaper

[Slicker]

For me, the grand appeal of the Rasbperri PI is it's 26 I/O lines--It's difficult to find a microcontroller with so many I/O lines and particularly with any reasonable CPU power.. This provides both. The downside is that the gyros in smartphones are also very useful in robotics projects. And I'd sure be nice to also have access to some GPU power, computationally...

Re:26 I/O Lines and a Lot Cheaper

[4wdloop]

How about any of the STM32FxDiscovery boards (esp F3 with acc/gyro/mag or F4 with more CPU)? These are $20!

But alas, one can buy a full tablet for $50 these days...Although the Pi would be easier to develop for than the tablet.

Re:26 I/O Lines and a Lot Cheaper

[Osgeld]

the big problem with the I/O lines is it goes though a huge OS so doing simple things like i2c is challenging

its fine if you want to flicker a led

Karbonn A1 costs about $65...

[skeptikal]

... Karbonn A1 costs about $65, with a 3mp camera, 3.5 inch LCD, Android, wireless, battery, etc... the real deal...

Why would I pay 100+ for a substantially lower setup, is beyond me, unless I buy it to scratch my soldering itch.

But then again, I would pay $65 and take the Karbonn apart, and solder to it whatever I feel like it.

http://www.siliconindia.com/gadget/news/10-Cheapest-Android-Phones-in-India-nid-141826.html

cellphone hardware is not documented

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck writing code on undocumented hardware. The OpenBSD team used to complain a lot about undocumented hardware, because if you want to write software for hardware, documentation is VERY important. Hell, the Raspberry Pi Broadcom BCM2835 only has limited publicly available documentation. I would wait for a chip with public datasheets.

Redpark serial cable for iOS

[ryrw]

If you're developing for iOS, consider the Redpark serial cable: http://www.redpark.com/c2db9.html I have one and have personally made an LED blink from my very own custom-written iOS app. From what I'm told, this is the only general use serial cable which has ever made it through Apple's hardware approval process (which is prohibitively expensive for any "person" who isn't also a corporation). Alastair Allen gave a great workshop at OSCON in 2012 demonstrating to use of this serial cable with custom iOS apps: http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/schedule/detail/24068 Additionally, with the adoption of Bluetooth 4 in iOS devices, that is also another way to connect hardware to custom mobile phone software without having use the Apple hardware partner program.

n900

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazingly capable phone.

Some phone handsets almost perfect for the task

[spectrum-]

Two that spring to mind are the Nokia N900 which already runs a format of *nix, Maemo. Probably pick one up on ebay pretty cheap. But slow and not much graphics ability, but has Web server ports of all sorts available via a nice easy apt-get. Possibly more useful for many would be the Nokia N8, complete with hdmi out and apps like 'Big screen' and both dnla serving and client software etc. You can even hook up a wiimote with official Nokia and Noka beta labs software without any hacking or soldering. The power consumption on these devices is tiny, there's definitely phone devices that will do a lot of what a pi can, on original firmware.

Iphone to Arduino

[TheSync]

The Redpark TTL Serial Cable connects iOS devices to TTL serial devices. So you could hook it up to an Arduino. Except the cable itself costs more than a Raspberry Pi...

headphone GPIO or exposed i2c/spi?

[Miamicanes]

Does anybody know of any widely-available Android phone that directly exposes 2 or more GPIO pins via some usable-connection point, like the headphone jack or Samsung USB port pins (via some officially-nondocumented WDC USB crossbar-chip setting or resistor value)?

I know some phones expose a UART (with nonstandard levels) on the headphone jack (Original G1) and repurposed usb pins (original Galaxy S?), but I've never come across a real reverse-engineered schematic for the HTC HeroC, Samsung Galaxy S/Epic4g, Motorola Photon (as if it would matter, since the evil bastards permalocked the bootloader & ruined it), or Krait/US-variety Galaxy S3 that shows what's sitting between the headphone jack & SoC and what the jack is physically wired to inside.

The big prize: if the 3 headphone jack pins (plus gnd) are connected to real gpio pins (normally tristated, or even directly-driving/sampling the headset)... THEN bitbanged SPI becomes possible. A real UART is a distant second consolation prize, moving up a notch if it can do Atmel-like 1mbps and/or 9-bit serial. I2C would be cool, but I won't hold my breath. DMA-able ADC (== mic) and DAC (== audio out) would be nice IF they aren't forcibly intercepted by a codec chip that can ONLY do mp3 &| audio-bitrate P[W|C]M.

As others have noted, IOIO is great, but USB limits you in some serious ways if you're trying to do raw realtime bitbanging. The main problem with USB is that it basically forces you to move your realtime logic to dedicated hardware at the other end of a USB cable (like ioio, or an AVR-based ADP. A Raspberry Pi gives you directly-bitbangable gpio. AFAIK, no Android phone does.

Re:headphone GPIO or exposed i2c/spi?

[dargaud]

There are some phones with an IR port, which is basically a UART. But that's not exactly what you are asking. And I can't name an Android phone with it.

It's out of stock !

[Taco Cowboy]

That "IOIO-OTG" thingy is out of stock, unfortunately

Re:It's out of stock !

[Curtman]

117 in stock

???? You can also get one from Adafruit. Seeedstudio used to have the first (non-OTG) version that I bought, but I guess they dont make the new one.

A pi, api. Oh why o why

[Anonymous Coward]

You've gone about this all wrong. A raspberry pie is good for somethings, an arduino is good for others, a phone for other still. There are overlaps and there are areas that are totally separate, i.e. arduino has primitive ethernet or wi-fi ability, phone doesn't run full linux etc...
Me I have all three because I am easily bored and flighty.

You haven't said WHY you want a raspy, or a phone dev kit or whatever else, so I assume that you are just a bit bored and looking for a new project.
Get a puppy, they're cuter and more mobile and score better points with the ladies.

A Mobile Device with USB On-The-Go and TV-out

[gimmily]

My last phone (O2 XDA Flame) had the ability to plug in a USB hub which you could plug in a basic keyboard and mouse (even a basic wireless) and had TV-Out capabilities. They retailed for US$1200 back in 2007 (I have seen some on eBay for a couple hundred $). They also featured a separate graphics chip (NVidia GoForce 5500) and 3.5G (with a radio rom upgrade from XDA Dev).

Archimedies Plutonium...is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Archimedies Plutonium...is that you?

-ZaZa Lipsoidic

What platform?

[manu0601]

I don't care what phone platform

AFAIK there is no JS API for I/O pins, which means it has to be handled by a native app. On iOS you cannot run your own apps, except if you root the device, therefore I would say that one care about the platform: iOS is not hack friendly

Propbridge

[spiritplumber]

The Parallax Propeller ($8) can emulate a USB host leaving you with 4 cores on the chip to play with. I wrote the firmware and it's on the Parallax Object Exchange. You get 4 serial port and 20 GPIOs. Search for Propbridge.

Why?

[pcjunky]

Why do I need a screwdriver? I have a hammer.

What do you do if...

[XaXXon]

you need 100 of them?

You can't exactly go out and buy 100 cell phones -- at least not at the same price point as the raspberry pi's.

OpenMoko

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the OpenMoko project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page

Re:Pi has better hosts file support than most phon

[Dexter Herbivore]

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ... not this again.

Oh No, Not complication!

[SuperKendall]

And enjoy the cat and mouse game with Apple

A real hacker does not need to update the system the moment releases an update, you can wait a week for the next jailbreak to be found. After all you are doing your own thing right?

There is no "cat and mouse", Apple generally doesn't care about tethered jailbreaks (which only means you have to have the device connected to a computer when rebooting - I do that about ever six months). Apple only rapidly fixes security flaws relating to untethered jailbreaks (because, after all, they are security flaws).

Bluetooth...Which adds a nice layer of complication to a project.

So in other words you aren't any kind of hacker at all if a "complication" would stop or even concern, instead of excite, you. Persevere or GTFO.

Don't forget that despite this "complication" the benefit you gain is that whatever you are experimenting with is suddenly wirelessly controlled, not wired. You seriously do not see a huge upside there? It's why I recommended it as a starting point because it adds a greater dimension of usability and cool to what you are developing.

A great starting board for Bluetooth for people who do not fear technology like you is the bluegiga ble112 evaluation board. It has all kinds of data output and sensors on it, even an LCD you can program the display of. It's a great idea to start with a class that features this if you can, check indie iOS conferences to see if they have one on schedule.

Re:Oh No, Not complication!

[stenvar]

A real hacker doesn't buy an iPhone.

Re:Oh No, Not complication!

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless of how LE BTLE is, you're hitting the battery harder than you need to -- which means you either need a bigger battery, more expensive hardware (are you saying you can add BTLE to a random project for the same cost as a $2 USB-OTG cable?)

You also realize that JB (and roots on other platforms) are security vulnerabilities, and all parent companies *DO* care about sealing those holes -- tethered or not (especially since it lets people get around the monopoly they have on the store).

Re:Oh No, Not complication!

[SuperKendall]

Regardless of how LE BTLE is, you're hitting the battery harder than you need to

A very minuscule amount, which is why BTLE devices can last well over a year on a watch battery.

(are you saying you can add BTLE to a random project for the same cost as a $2 USB-OTG cable?)

What does that cable plug into, air? Oh that's right, it needs to plug into a USB controller of some kind. The cost of that is not so different than a Bluetooth LE module (about $9-$40 at Mouser). You concern trolls that are posers when it comes to hardware should really shut up when you have no idea what you are talking about.

You also realize that JB (and roots on other platforms) are security vulnerabilities,

Not tethered jailbreaking, which simply replaces the update process to install new versions of the OS. That's why tethered jailbreaking usually comes along in short order after every OS update, and usually keeps working between OS updates. You are confusing exploits that do not require physical access to the device with exploits that can be done from anywhere...

Stop it with the arduinos already...

[Anonymous Coward]

They are micro controllers and a completely different class of device. Spend some time with an UNO and a WiFly doing wireless UART and you'll quickly see how they don't come close to the OP's specs (case and battery aside). You get plenty of GPIO pins but crap speed and forget about having a responsive touchscreen interface.

Re:Stop it with the arduinos already...

[gl4ss]

They are micro controllers and a completely different class of device. Spend some time with an UNO and a WiFly doing wireless UART and you'll quickly see how they don't come close to the OP's specs (case and battery aside). You get plenty of GPIO pins but crap speed and forget about having a responsive touchscreen interface.

you stupid? all he needs is the gpio pins. the phone has the responsive touchscreen.

Well, sure

[hey!]

if you want to frob around with something, an old Android phone is a pretty good platform. But if you want to create something that can be reproduced and extended by others, then you need something which is in production *now* and into the reasonably foreseeable future. If you want to teach about technology from the ground up (the primary purpose for the project), and courage a take-it-apart-redesign-it-and-put-it-back-together approach to learning, you want something packaged as parts.

I've mucked around with Arduino, and it's cool, but it sits in a certain band of capabilities. It's terrific for interfacing and one-off prototyping. But there's room for a more capable package supporting more elaborate software. I see the two projects as complementary.

Re:Pi has better hosts file support than most phon

[Anonymous Coward]

TL;DR

Bare Metal Raspberry Pi

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10850

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bare-metal_Raspberry_Pi_Programming

http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/542/using-raspberry-pi-without-a-linux-os

Re:Pi has better hosts file support than most phon

[nullchar]

Slashcode needs to fix the sig.

if you want to use a phone just use it

[kiddygrinder]

they can pretty much do exactly the same thing and the phone will most likely have a screen and more grunt, if you're not sure and you've got $40 bucks you might as well get a pi but it's just a cheapy computer, do what you want :)

Openmoko [or EZX]

[jendral_hxr]

It'd be nice if you can get Openmoko phones, or some old EZX phones. They have JTAG and GPIO pins (and well documented and publicly available schematics and workarounds), running minimalistic Linux on bare ARM.

People often fail to understand why the Arduino is

[Anonymous Coward]

People often fail to understand why the Arduino is so fucking popular. It is NOT because it has the most powerful processor. It is NOT because it has the most pins. It is NOT because it is the easiest to develop for. It is NOT because it is the most standardized.

It is because it got traction for being good enough at a point in time when nothing else was and through that it became a standard. And because it was a standard, lots of people made add ons for it, making it even more the standard device, making even more people choose it as the standard device.

This is why the iPod has a shelve to it self in stores AND three shelves with goodies while iRiver etc have to share a shelve with everyone else and have no goodies.

There were boards before the Arduino and lots of boards since... but none replaced it. No, not even the Raspberry Pi. Lots of people would LOVE to see the Pi replace the Arduino but the Arduino is still the darling because while it isn't the best, it is good enough AND I can find a ton of addons for it, INCLUDING ones aimed at people who just want to mess around.

There are people who created USB hookups for mobile phones. BUT these are the kind of people who snort when anyone asks for an "howto" and therefor it has gained no traction. It is the BSD vs Linux vs OSX world.

You ask how to do something and they will answer as follows:

BSD: You shouldn't do that you loser, it is insecure!

Linux: There is the manual, fucking read it.

OSX: I will do it for you, that will be 100 bucks.

And which one does best? BSD is dead, Linux hangs on to a few percent, maybe and Apple sells more computers then Dell. Well for more profit anyway.

So... why buy a raspberry Pi when your phone has more power?

Because the Pi is THE tool to do that kind of stuff, meaning lots of people have done your work for you.

Why use the Arduino for amateurs wanting to play with electronics? Because lots of people have done hard engineering to make it easy to use.

Not enough people have used their phone (of which there are a thousand different models) to control external hardware with. So there are no off the shelve board and ready to use development tools. And because there aren't any, people don't use it.

Chicken and the Egg.

If you build it, they will come... but if you are they, you will have to wait until someone else builds it before you can come.

Do you want to know the secret behind the iPod? Apple said "we are going to release with X storage, to do that we need to order a gigantic number of players to get the prices down, we are going to do that".

Do you know why iRiver and the likes aren't succesful? Because they say, "we can't afford to put X storage in it, we will release an upgraded model is the tiny version sells". They don't gamble big, so they don't win big.

That is all there is to Apples success. Big gambles, big wins.

Why Buy a Raspberry Pi ?

[lfourrier]

because it's the perfect solution for some problems.

What are your needs ? Is it reusing some old hardware you have ? or have you a usage in mind ?

I have one running raspbian, and it's an always on headless server for http, https, googleprint and ssh (don't forget to install fail2ban ;-).
Never was there any access to this machine except putting an sd card and using ssh.
The case is a folded plastic sheet (google is your friend for that).
It is the perfect (if underpowered) solution for my very personnal needs. It doesn't means it is the perfect one for you.

And don't forget that a way to put old hardware to productive use is to put it on ebay and buy something else with the profits.

Artist friendly development platform

[Anonymous Coward]

I came to the same conclusion as the OP, and lacking serious hacker skills I decided to use a very simple hack. I connected a Digispark ($8) to the USB-Host port of my tablet ($60). The Digispark can emulate a keyboard, so I had it send over the sensor's values by simply 'typing in' the values every 100 miliseconds, followed by a carriage return. A fullscreen app (built in Processing) receives the values, and presto: a n00b and artist-friendly sensor development platform.

What do you want to do?

[ikaruga]

RPi in particular has two main uses: learn computers and learn electronics. For learning computers you just need the CPU/GPU/memory in a nice, preferably open, package. Given that the RPi is relatively weak compared to several consumer ARM devices(smartphones/tablets/game consoles/media centers/etc), using them for learning programing/hacking is a reasonable option.

An advantage the RPi(and the several other "better", but more expensive and less popular board ARM computers) has over consumer ARM device are the GPIOs. Sure you can add a secondary controller that communicates with the RPi through some USB/BT or if you're lucky some loose UART/SPI bus. But in the end you will also add complexity and cost to the device. Just think about it: the RPi is one small board with an ARM7(i think) chip and built in GPIO connector. Drivers are already available for the official linux distro. It cost $35. If you use a consumer ARM device you going to have to open it up, then install a custom board with GPIOs like PWM, ADC, DAC, CAN, SPI, UART, etc(Arduino, Mbed or something you designed by yourself), you going have to write TWO pieces of software(smartphone and custom board firmware) and its probably going to cost just as much as a RPi(if not more)

Finally the biggest advantage the RPi has over other ARM devices is the community. I personally use some ODROID exynos boards at work, hardware is miles ahead but the support/knowhow from the community pales in comparison to the RPi's. At least I'm an engineer and I've done some tinkering myself so I can withstand some frustration. But for the beginner who needs all the help he can get or the individual who doesn't require to top line hardware and just want's to get the job done, the RPi is the superior choice.

But in the end it's really up to what you need to do. Depending on your project you might need both a smartphone and a RPi. There is no ultimate choice.

Re:People often fail to understand why the Arduino

[Joce640k]

People often fail to understand why the Arduino is so fucking popular. It is NOT because it has the most powerful processor. It is NOT because it has the most pins. It is NOT because it is the easiest to develop for. It is NOT because it is the most standardized.

This.

Just yesterday I had an 'argument' with a guy over how Arduino is dead because such-and-such a chip is way more powerful than AVR (AVR=the chips in Arduinos), how it has hundreds of MegaHertz and Megabytes and all that stuff.

I simply don't care! I don't need a board that has 512Mb of RAM and runs Linux just to light up a few LEDs (even with a motion sensor!). I need something that works well enough, can drive a LED directly from an I/O pin (5V outputs, tada!) and has a huge online community with thousands of web pages/blogs/forums to browse, plus source code to download.

PS: Can you build your own dime-sized clone of that fancy ARM board for $1.50? I can do it with Arduino... (ATtiny85)

Why Ras.Pi ... I've a [RockBox-compat.] MP3 player

[ivi]

Open Source "RockBox" ought to give folks a clue on
how to access the capabilities of a wide range of MP3-
players - from Apple iPod's to Sandisk Sansa Clip Zip's,
& lots more.

(Some have video functions, too, but I don't know how
much of these would be accessed / used by RockBox.)

Numerous model-specific user manuals & a 1st-class
web site make this Open Source project worthy of
emulation, as well as useful to -both- end-users and
experimenter / developers of innovative replacement
firmware for many models & various applications.

Have a look: http://www.rockbox.org/

IO-Warrior

[Tux2000]

IO-Warrior:

One end USB HID device, other end lots (up to 50) of I/O pins, either freely programmable or with functions like LCD, I2C, SPI, IR RC5, LCD, LED matrix, keyboard matrix. There are also variants that can work as USB Joystick, USB Keyboard, USB Mouse.

Tux2000

Privacy

[AlabamaCajun]

You don't need permission from some big corporation every time boot the raspberry.
As others have said you can load any compatible OS when and how you want to.
No Contracts.
No one is tracking what you are doing nor where you are unless you really want that.
Only you can brick a Rasberry Pi.
Who is going to hack into it, that is what you get to do.
Oh and all the sexy IO pins to play with.

Re:People often fail to understand why the Arduino

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, and Arduino runs on about 40mA at 5V, whereas a Pi needs more like 400mA (if it's not too busy). You can get an Atmel chip to run at about 5mA if you're clever with it, I doubt you could get a Pi below 200mA. One of these two options works well on batteries, the other doesn't.

Sometimes less power is a good thing. Amazingly, different tools are best for different jobs. Shocking, I know, but it's true!

Arduino is popular but overpriced

[Brit_in_the_USA]

I do a fair amount of home and work microprocessor/hardware dev. and every time I research I keep coming to the conclusion that the Arduino and it's expansion shields from the usual vendors are WAY OVERPRICED.

An Arduino and Ethernet shield costs more than a 2nd hand dual core PC box with windows licence.

The RasberyPI by comparison seems very well priced, though I haven't had need for one. The OP is correct, if he needs a screen , user input and portable nature a (2nd hand) cell phone (android) is a good basis. Since the USB OTG IO expansion costs as much as a budget (2nd hand) android cell phone again it is not a great deal.

I would suggest a TI Stelaris launchpad kit that has USB host / slave functionality for $13 (!)
http://www.ti.com/ww/en/launchpad/stellaris_head.html?DCMP=stellaris-launchpad&HQS=stellaris-launchpad
this little guy has "80MHz, 32-bit ARM Cortex-M4 CPU with floating point, 256Kbytes of 100,000 write-erase cycle FLASH and many peripherals such as 1MSPS ADCs, eight UARTs, four SPIs, four I2Cs, USB & up to 27 timers, some configurable up to 64-bits. "

Another item of interest for projects that I have developed is this Bluetooth to serial TTL for $9:
http://www.mdfly.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=63

For all most of my (PC based) projects to date I have gone with:
A) the (cheaper) MSP430 launchpad:
http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp430g2
B) Or for "medium" speed / quality analog I/O use a national instruments usb I/O card ($170): http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201986
C) And for something a bit faster use a Rigol Osc. starting at $300 with usb and Ethernet interfacing.

Android ADK

[FlorianMayer]

Hi, this one could be for you: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardADK ADK provides the API and on Android side, since 2.3.4 I believe. You can use all of Arduinos features to wire your hardware, you can even do time-critical things on it. But you have to code on both devices. Sparkfun had another interface kit for Android which worked also with older versions: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10585 Regards Flo

Phidgets

[salmo]

You could use Phidgets and a OTG cable.

Bluetooth is the way

[angryfeet]

I think the easiest way is an arduino and bluetooth. An arduino nano clone and bluetooth-serial board will set you back $20 from dealextreme. Then pick up of those emergency USB charger battery packs while you're there, and you've got yourself an easy to use 5V power source. Then maybe write some generic firmware to read/write the GPIOs, ADC, I2C, SPI etc, and you'd never need to touch the firmware on the arduino again. Obviously the bandwidth is limited. I can't get my cheapo bluetooth-serial board to work reliably above 115200 baud (~12KB/s). ...And this way your phone stays electrically isolated from all the ill-advised hacks you can think of!

Equivalently

[timq]

"Why should I buy a boat when I already have a car?"

Re:Equivalently

[LeadSongDog]

"Why should I buy a boat when I already have a car?"

The usual reason: To stop money from burning a hole in your pocket, just apply water.

Re:People often fail to understand why the Arduino

[Rakishi]

This. People have atmel powered wireless sensors that run for over a year on a single watch battery.

EV3

[Anonymous Coward]

in short comes down to: 'Its intelligent brick sports an ARM9-soc running Linux on 64MB RAM and 16MB storage memory, and supports SD cards. There are also four ports, which allow four other 'Bricks' can be connected. The intelligent brick can be reached by WiFi, USB and Bluetooth, and supports control via Android and iOS devices. It comes with 3 servo's, two touch sensors and an IR sensor to track other robots at upto six meters. It also includes 17 build plans, shown in 3D using Adobe Inventor Publisher.'"

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/01/08/0149241/lego-announces-gnulinux-powered-mindstorms-ev3-platform

Try the Adafriut IOIO

[Dr. Crash]

The Adafruit IOIO gives you a bunch of analog and digital IO's, runs on
a battery, talks via Bluetooth, and comes with an Android dev kit
so you don't have to figure out the bit-banging interface.

The only downside is that it is limited to Bluetooth's bandwidth
and latency, which may or may not be compatible with your
other project requirements.

Here's the problem

[kiick]

It's true that even an obsolete smart phone has lots of integrated features that you would be hard pressed to find or add to a micro-controller or tiny PC ( like the PI). There are even a few models that have some primitive IO capability, and lots of them at least have a serial port. So you can, with some effort, get some IO going.

But.

The huge advantage of the PI (and Arduino et al) is the development environment. It's free. It comes with the device. You can roll your own OS, drivers, libraries, programs and interfaces. Or build on the work of others via the community of developers who share their code. In other words, it's an open platform (yeah, yeah, quit nit picking).

A smart phone, on the other hand, is going to be much more difficult to develop for, unless you just want to make apps like everyone else. Many of those neat pieces of highly integrated hardware are not documented, proprietary, and don't give you the source code you need to made modifications. Yes, there's Android, but even there doing low-level things like single pin IO, or even just using the components to their full capabilities, is going to be hard, if not nearly impossible.

So for example if you want to make a robot controller, and you have an old iphone 3 lying around, and compare it to a Ras Pi. The Pi isn't going to have built-in screen, wifi, accelerometers, audio, battery and charger. But the Pi is going to be much easier to use for this application. The number of hoops you'd have to jump through to get the iphone working would make it a much harder prospect to use. By the time you finish getting, or custom making, the connectors/cables/circuits needed to hook it up, you'll have spent as much as a Pi or arduino costs. And that doesn't even address the development environment you'd need. Android phones have it much better off, but it's still not as easy as hooking up and programming a Pi or arduino.

Yes, you have a perfectly good cell phone that could, with some work, be used instead of a Pi. The problem is that the cell phone is going to take a lot more time and effort to hack than the Pi.

Try IOIO for Android

[Anonymous Coward]

The IOIO board contains a single MCU that acts as a USB host and interprets commands from an Android app. In addition, the IOIO can interact with peripheral devices in the same way as most MCUs. Digital Input/Output, PWM, Analog Input, I2C, SPI, and UART control can all be used with the IOIO.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10748

LOL! Really??

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to grok the ignorance - no offense, but the reason is that it's open, accessible and designed for development and hacking. No cell phone is any other these to the same extent.

You get a Raspberry Pi for the same reason why I have: [an arduino](http://www.arduino.cc), [Atmel STK500](http://www.atmel.com/tools/STK500.aspx), [Xilinx SP605](http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-S6-SP605-G.htm) and numerous other development types of boards. It's NOT because these become "final product". That's yet another step in the process to streamline the form with the function. This is about the creative stage of DIY or design.

done already by NASA!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is done already by NASA!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57576155-1/behind-the-scenes-nasas-nexus-powered-drones/

Scorpius & Rasberries

[Anonymous Coward]

gosgog:

You are an idiot, Rasberry costs a few dollars, Cell phones cost hundreds, so take some of your leftover money and find a computer service person, PAY 'em to fix your problem ...AND I HOPE LIKE HELL THEY OVER CHARGE A DUMBASS LIKE YOU!

Utility of Pi

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you are missing the point. Raspberry Pi is the modeling clay of anything you want it ti be. It has the software library of Linux, virtually anything you want it ti be, It lacks performance, but this will resolve over time. _I think it the first cog in what will become a completely interconnected appliance evenvironment.

Arduino + Ethernet = Nanode

[vandamme]

After looking around for exactly what I wanted for a solar heater controller/logger, I bought a Nanode from Wicked Devices in Ithaca, NY, which has the network adapter right on the board. $40 kit.