Slashdot Mirror
India To Send World's Last Telegram
New submitter afarhan writes "India will pull the plug on its 160-year-old telegram service on 14 July, this year. This will probably be the last telegram ever sent in the world. However, telegrams are still relevant in this vast country. More than 500 million people are still without access to a phone or Internet. For these people, telegram still remains the only digital communication available. 'At their peak in 1985, 60 million telegrams were being sent and received a year in India from 45,000 offices. Today, only 75 offices exist, though they are located in each of India's 671 districts through franchises. And an industry that once employed 12,500 people, today has only 998 workers.' In India, telegram is also considered a legal correspondence."
"This will probably be the last telegram ever sent in the world. However, telegrams are still relevant in this vast country"
Probably isn't news.
Reports say that as India pulls the plug on the system the last telegram in its buffers will be Ambassador Zimmerman asking Mexico if it would like to join Germany in attacking America. India reported to be indifferent on the subject.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
When Western Union discontinued its telegraph service in 2006, it sold off the network to iTelegram, which inexplicably still seems to be in business.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I'm old enough to remember when telegrams were still used in the US, mostly at memorial services. They were considered a classy way of someone unable to attend to send their regards for the deceased; the telegrams would be laid out on a table.
Somehow I don't think email, tweets or e-whatever would be an effective replacement.
you can still send telegrams in russia
Well sorry for the Article but it's actually false :) Telegram is still alive and kicking in Europe ... for instance in Belgium where you can still send Telegrams right now !
Here is the national telecommunication operator page about it :
www.belgacom.be/en/private/products-and-services/fixed-telephony/options-and-services/other-services?page=p_other_services_available
Telegram
There are several formulas to choose from:
Comfort Telegram
A telegram ordered via the post.
With an illustration for offering condolences or congratulations.
Without an illustration.
The Standard National Telegram
The "conventional", revised and corrected telegram delivered by Taxipost, our courier service. Telegrams sent before midday are delivered the same day; those sent after midday are delivered the next working day at the latest.
The Flash Telegram
The quickest method. As soon as our telegraph operators receive your telegram, our courier service makes a special delivery as quickly as possible. It is also possible to send a Flash Telegram and add a gift.
For international messages, your telegram will be sent by our telegraphists to the country of destination. It is delivered in accordance with the terms and conditions of express delivery in the country concerned.
...I am only 53 so I will never get one from the Queen when I am 100. Oh well.
For these people, telegram still remains the only digital communication available.
Is this accurate? I don't know much about telegraphs, but I'm pretty sure they're analog machines.
Last telegram? Hardly, telegrams are still widely used in Brazil by the government
I don't know much about telegraphs, but I'm pretty sure they're analog machines.
No, they're a form of digital communication; they use on-off keying (OOK).
Funny that they use the word "only" when saying that a thousand people are still employed in the telegram industry there.
Is appears the article is wrong about telegram services ending over all, and they actually won't Stop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraphy#Worldwide_status_of_telegram_services
and in the usa faxes are legal correspondences as well
If you're interested in an amateur, as opposed to a commercial, version of a radiotelegraph network, have a look at the National Traffic System. This system, created in the 1940s, has many features that predate modern digital networks, including a Request To Send / Clear To Send (RTS/CTS) system, and separate logical channels for network control and data.
It's a little know fact that in Hindi, all words can be formed from "uh" and "duh" very rapidly, thus a telegram slightly modified to sound like "uh duhduhduh uhhh duhduhduh uh duh duhduh" translates almost directly to "Thank you, come again."
In 1997 I has at the US consulate in Melbourne organising visas for myself and my then partner. It got complicated and the consulate had to send a telex to the US to deal with the issue. Obviously we used email for organising the rest of the trip.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
In Belgium you can still send a telegram.
So no idea where this idea comes from that it isn't available anywhere anymore. If Belgium has it and even has International AND Intercontinental prices, there must be at least two other countries that have it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
TELEGRAPH SERVICE SHUTTING DOWN TELL MOTHER RAJESH MUST LEARN TWITTER FOLLOW ME AT ANAND UNDERSCORE BANDYOPADHYAY STOP
(Silly filter, telegrams *are* printed in all caps). Lorem ipsum something something dies irae dies illa solvet seclum in favilla.
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
SOS, as an emergency indicator, is a single symbol, not three separate letters -- di-di-di-dah-dah-dah-di-di-dit or, in your notation, 10101011101110111010101.
It's more or less the same, right?
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Err... Umm... This has nothing to do with your post or the conversation at hand.
Err... I'm no grammar Nazi or anything but, well, shouldn't that be *fewer* illiterates - actually - shouldn't it be *more* illiterates than people who can't read? As in there are illiterate people who can read but just not grasp what they're reading at any level that is reasonably higher than one would assume they should be able to read at... (That's the ugliest sentence I've typed all day. I'm strangely proud of it. I have absolutely no right to be.)
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
More than just digital, they are BINARY.
Analog: composed of continuously variable values
Digital: composed of discreet values
Binary: composed of two possible values
Since traditional telegraphs consist of only dots and dashes, they are digital, and binary. If they were analog, they would include "dot and a half", with infinite valid values between dot and dash.
Brazilians still enjoy the availability of telegrams through ECT - Empresa de Correios e Telegrafos ECT - National and International Telegrams.
There is a LARGE list of countries that would receive telegrams. It may be posted the old fashined way, at the post office, or by modern tools like internet or phone.
Brazilian state controlled ECT (T stands for Telegraphs) sends and receives telegrams nationally and internationally (to and from India?).
Some places in Brazil do not have electricity, and telegram is also considered a legal correspondence. Probably the only possible one.
In rural areas you myst stop by the post office once every few days to collect your mail, and telegrams.
Jose T Oliveira Jr.
In argentina, law requires that if you get fired, you are let know by telegram. A bit outdated maybe, but the way things are going here (like shit, for those blissfully ignorant of argentinian affairs) telegram is being used a lot.
A whole damn lot.
Yeah, I was finding this to add to it actually. I didn't think my response was clear or necessarily correct which made me scroll up to find it. It's a bit of a difficult thing to classify it, I gave a link below that gave a pretty decent description of it. One of the curious things is that the "off" status isn't used. There is long on and short on (with at least Morse, there may be other types). It's binary in nature which is what I should have said. Binary, by itself, doesn't (I'm pretty sure but may be mistaken) confer "digital" status.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
I think it's about time to answer the original question:
42 STOP
Hawkeye: Dear Dad, I am not dead. Stop. Hope you are the same. Stop. Thinking of selling my golf clubs? Stop. Spending my insurance money? Stop.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
There's no such thing as "legal correspondence", at least not in the United States. Unlike other legal systems--especially Civil Law systems--Common Law systems have very few magic processes. All that matters in the Common Law is evidence, evidence, evidence. It's why it was always unnecessary to pass new laws to make electronic contracts binding. The courts were perfectly able to adapt themselves.
However, some evidence has more weight than others, if only because it's less common to fake (or, conversely, dispute) and is thus more credible in court. Faxes are preferred over e-mail because it's easier to prove that the other end received it--you get a nice printed confirmation from your fax machine, plus the phone company has a record of the call, and it's much easier to decipher that record than a Sendmail log.
What about serving papers? Same thing. There's nothing magical about some paralegal serving you papers. It's just that it's extremely difficult to claim that you didn't receive them when a practiced professional will tell the judge that not only are you lying, he's the one who actually handed you the papers. If you were never served papers but already had actual knowledge--and that knowledge could be shown--of whatever was held in the papers, then you'd still be responsible for that knowledge.
Again, it's all about evidence and proof. That's all. No magic is involved.
Common misconception. Silly, really. Sacred cows? Nonsense. It's the rat that's sacred in India. Believe it or not (it's your long departed relative).
Actually AFAIK they were sent using 5-bit Baudot code since around the '20s. Could be off by a decade or two.
Hand-sent-and-received Morse went out a while back.
It told me to not pick number 77. Did so anyway, boy was that a mistake.
So it seems I can send a telegram inside venezuela, and to belgium at least, but not to indi come next month. Ok, I'll keep that in mind....
From the post operator in Venezuela:
http://www.ipostel.gob.ve/servicios.html
Telegrama: Es un escrito destinado a ser transmitido por telegrafía para su entrega al destinatario, con cobertura nacional e internacional.
Modalidades del Telegrama:
Telegrama Ordinario: Son los telegramas cuya aceptación es obligatoria y no lleva ninguna indicación de servicio.
Telegrama Urgente: Son telegramas a los cuales se les da prioridad para su transmisión y entrega al destinatario.
PC (Acuse de Recibo): Confirmación de entrega (Opcional según la necesidad del cliente).
Giros Telegráficos: A través de nuestros Centros de Atención al Cliente autorizados, a escala nacional, usted puede ordenar un pago a favor de personas naturales y/o jurídicas, la cual será cancelada en su totalidad en la oficina de destino, poniendo a disposición de nuestros clientes, nuestra extensa red de oficinas a nivel nacional.
Telefonograma: Al comunicarse con nuestra línea gratuita de Atención al Cliente 0800 IPOSTEL o 405-3078, usted puede enviar un mensaje telegráfico o telegrama a través de una llamada telefónica. El cobro de este servicio será cargado a su factura CANTV.
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
The end of the article gave me a chuckle. A guy is threatening to go on a hunger strike to keep the service going, insisting that it's a vital tool for fighting corruption ( presumably gov't corruption ) He sent his demands to the PM and others, via telegram of course. But someone at the telegraph office viewed the telegram as "objectionable" and have chosen not to deliver it.
So while India might still accept telegrams as legal documents, having a communications medium that requires a man-in-the-middle to function seems to be one that is too easily thwarted by the man in the middle.
Hopefully the guy on the hunger strike backed up his telegram with an email.
> binary, by itself, doesn't (I'm pretty sure but may be mistaken) confer "digital" status.
The defining distinction between digital and analog is that analog can represent a continuous range, whereas digital can only represent specific values. A phonograph, for example, can represent an infinite range of values between silence and full volume. A CD, on the other hand, can only encode certain volumes, not any in between. That's what makes a phonograph analog and a CD digital. Therefore, binary is BY DEFINITION digital - it uses just two values, not an infinite range
That's good and bad for both. With digital, you get back EXACTLY what you debt, with no degradation. With analog, you can receive a signal even if it can't be received perfectly, because it can receive 0.46 when its not possible to distinguish between 0 and 1.
To summarize the Yahoo answer, copper wire can carry a range of voltages , so it CAN carry an ANALOG signal.
It can also carry a digital signal like Morse or Baudot, which is what telegrams use.
Radio is exactly the same way - it can carry analog signal such as old fashioned AM ratio, or a digital signal like GSM.
the navy is ceasing its use of all caps as well. what's this world coming to?
Have gnu, will travel.
My first job was delivering telegrams (by bicycle) in downtown Buffalo during the 1960's.
My Western Union office had its hours posted on the door: "We Never Close". The building's been torn down, so, in a sense, the message turned out to be true.
Question: what'll happen to the American Telephone and Telegraph Corporation?
Here in Berkeley, one of the main drags is Telegraph Avenue and a cell-phone store is named "Telegraph Wireless"
All mammals are long departed relatives. As are all animals, and all other life on this planet..
A common misconception shared by a lot of Hindus in India. For example, there was a 1857 rebellion that started because Indian soldiers were required to bite the ends off of bullet cartridges (it was part of the loading process for rifles of the time) coated with animal fat (allegedly both beef and pig, which offends just about optimally).
Service is still available in Argentima national post offices. About 3 usd per 20 words http://www.correoargentino.com.ar/precios/telegramas/nacionales
MOD THE CHILD UP!
What have god wroth....
They misinterpreted that last STOP.
Just few weeks ago I received a telegram by the local Visa anti fraud team: PLEASE CONTACT US ABOUT YOUR CARD ENDING WITH NUMBER XXXX.
Since traditional telegraphs consist of only dots and dashes, they are digital, and binary.
Actually no. Silences are meaningful in morse, so it's ternary, not binary.
The ability and willingness to learn when a mistake is pointed out publicly makes you smarter than 98% of Slashdotters,I would guess.
The telegram was from A.P. Tripathi, who runs an anticorruption nonprofit in Lucknow. Addressed to the president, prime minister, the minister for communications, and others, it said that he would engage in a Gandhian fast unto death if telegram services were shut down, and if he died, then the addressed officials would be responsible.
Man threatens to starve himself to death and claims that I'm the one to blame. I can't see any way to respond to this other than to say "sure, sounds good".
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Ok, ok, we get it. OP is telegraphing the end of telegraphy.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
You even have short and long silences, thus we are talking base 4.
More than just digital, they are BINARY.
Analog: composed of continuously variable values
Digital: composed of discreet values
Binary: composed of two possible values
Since traditional telegraphs consist of only dots and dashes, they are digital, and binary. If they were analog, they would include "dot and a half", with infinite valid values between dot and dash.
UM, TRINARY. If you exclude the spaces between dots and dashes, you can't tell where the letter boundaries are.
Telegrams are still available in Brazil. You can only send them through the Internet though - phone was discontinued a few years ago, telegraphs were discontinued a few decades ago.
Their only remaining use is as a legal document. With telegrams you can certify that you notified someone of X on date Y, or at least that you tried to. If you receive a telegram you are probably being sued by someone and the telegram is the "last resort" communication that is often required by law or at least recommended to show you made a good faith effort to settle things before going to court.
Prior to email it was common to use telegrams to congratulate distant relatives on their birthday, since you could schedule delivery to the exact day.
The first telegram message was taken from Numbers 23:23 (King James Bible) "What hath God wrougth". It's perhaps interesting that Numbers 23:27 for tells Online trolling: being able to ineffectually curse someone at a distance.
If this were Slashdot then the last 100 telegrams would be from people racing to be the last to send a message and all of them would be the same message, namely
"Last Post!"
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Actually, Morse code uses 4 characters, not just two. Dot, dash (combination of which identify the letter), short space (separates letters from each other) and long space (separates words from each other). Without the spaces it would not be possible to distinguish between, say, "TAE", "TR", "NN" and "C" (dash dot dash dot).
If it was binary, then a space between letters (start/stop bits) and between words (0x20) would be encoded by some combination of dots and dashes.
"only 75 offices exist, though they are located in each of India's 671 districts..." ?!
I make that 1333 telegrams per office per year, or 4 and a bit per day. Five and a bit if the office was closed at weekends. Say, a half an hour of work per operator per day, since telegrams were charged by the word, so people were terse ("PECCAVI").
And that was the peak of the system's use.
I bet that this is a figure for the general public's use of the system, and that the large majority of the system's traffic was carried for some separate reason, for example, with the telegraph cables laid alongside railway routes, and the bulk of the traffic being the railway's scheduling. Messages like "14:24 (a train left signal box) 14-56-34 (on line) 235 (and has ETA at signal box) 14-56-33 (at approx) 15:15".
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
In a perfect world where caller-ID can't be spoofed, a fax from a "registered" fax machine that is known to be run by people trusted by the state to not forge signatures makes sense.
Otherwise, it's open for abuse.
I don't know if it's still the case, but when faxes first became "legal" ways to send signed documents in the USA, they typically had to be followed up by hardcopy signature within a specified period of time, a week I think.
At least with hardcopy, if you suspect a forged signature you can usually test the paper for fingerprints.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's still binary: current, no current.
SOS SOS
would be ...---... ...---...
which in current terms (C=current, N=no current) is
CNCNCNNNCCCNCCCNCCCNNNCNCNCNNNNNNNCNCNCNNNCCCNCCCNCCCNNNCNCNC
dot = 1 unit of time
dash = 3 units of time
inter-dot/dash silence = 1 unit of time
inter-letter silence = 3 units of time
inter-word silence = 7 units of time
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
There are no good reason to implement Telex/telegraph on fiber
Just encapsulate it in another protocol that does do well over fiber and call it a day.
As for "good reasons" to even have such protocols, the hobbyist, novelty, and for the time being in certain countries, legal markets are the only ones I can think of. As a text-message-delivery protocol to use when fiber is available, there are so many better ones to choose from.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Telegram posts you???
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Does the fact that it is binary confer digital status automatically?
In this case, yes.
I assume you are talking about Morse code, which consists of "current off" and "current on" states grouped into dits ("dot"), dahs ("dashes," 3 times the length of a dit), inter-dit/dah spacing (period of no current, same length as a dit), inter-"letter" spacing (3 times the length of a dit), and inter-word spacing (7 times the length of a dit).
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Here they typically call you on the phone.
Note to Americans who get calls from Visa claiming fraud: Tell them "Who are you and how can I call you back [write down information], OK, thanks, I'll call my bank right now" then hang up.
Oh, and call your bank, since it might be legit.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Why this negativity, the already accepted demise for Indian Telegraph ? Didn't they predict the same fate for radio, the Movies and TV ? And those are still around and alive. No, I have an IMMEDIATE solution to this: PORN over the telegraph. Anticipated to have the same potential market share that the Internet already has. India has a population already over a BILLION, so this is a vast untapped market. A sure fire first demonstration of this would be porn for the blind, I think someone creative out there could come up w/ some kinda Open Source Braille Killer-App. Crowd-sourced, of course.
I'm sure there would be some kind of market for it............
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
No, don't stop, stop.
sorry dude, You are wrong. Telegraph consist of dots, dashes and blanks so it can't be binary... since the blanks are needed to carry information you can't call it binary.
[Yorkshire accent] Well, it were just a trail where rats had flattened the scrubby little weeds slightly. But it was a road to us. [/Ya]
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If the last one says "do the needful", how will I be able to revert the same if I have one doubt?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Read some specs. No, or almost no, digital protocols allow signal levels between 0.4 and 0.6. That is considered "too close to call" because digital normally doesn't permit something that islikely to be erroneous. Slashdot grammar proves that our analog wetware has no problem deciphering error filled signals.