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US Lawmakers Want Sanctions On Any Country Taking In Snowden
An anonymous reader points out this story about the latest effort by the U.S. to get Edward Snowden back in the country. "A U.S. Senate panel voted unanimously on Thursday to seek trade or other sanctions against Russia or any other country that offers asylum to former spy agency contractor Edward Snowden, who has been holed up for weeks at a Moscow airport.
The 30-member Senate Appropriations Committee adopted by consensus an amendment to a spending bill that would direct Secretary of State John Kerry to meet with congressional committees to come up with sanctions against any country that takes Snowden in."
You mad, bro? You seem mad, bro. (I'm from the US by the way)
This is going to turn out well. Watch Russia give a crap.
Papers please! Here's a nice star for your chest. Cattle car number 13 please. This won't hurt a bit.
Are these imbeciles serious? Do they think for one second about the repercussions of an action like this? If I were Russia, I'd grant him asylum just to watch the US government look like even bigger morons than they already do.
1) US enacts sanctions against Russia ...
2) Russia, and half the world return the favor.
3)
4) No profit.
It's time for the people of this country to stop voting mainstream and replace the complete morons running this circus. There are just no words.....
It's like watching a 5-year old having a temper tantrum.
These clowns don't have anything more important to work on?
This is completely insane, made by people who are also completely insane. This is calling burning bridges and not looking back, one day in the not so distant future U.S it self might find it self on the other end of a sanction (after U.N headquarters are moved, or U.N itself is disbanded).
In any case, this is both stupid and insane by the U.S congress doing this. I wonder what threats NSA did bring to the table to get this through.
When will we finally revolt and stop the CIA from destroying other governments,
stop our leaders from creating stupid laws, and stop lenovo from destroying the
thinkpad brand in the name of consumerism?
snowden released that shouldn't have already been made available to the public?
This "United Spies of America" with their OWN legal system and their OWN courts and Constitution...
THIS is essentially why the Revolutionary War was fought, freedom from this kind of authoritarian nonsense.
before the rest of the world decides to put trade sanctions on them. Few countries are as reliant on imports as the united states, the world would get along just fine, your people however would starve to death or die of dehydration
keep pushing assholes the world doesn't give a fuck about your pathetic ultimatums
Let this terrorist government burn their bridges. They need the world more than the world needs them. They deserve nothing more than having to crawl on their knees to get back with Europe, Russia and in particular China.
Signature intentionally left blank.
So, if China took him in... Bye bye US economy!
All Snowden did was let the us, (ya know...We the People of these United States) know that the secret courts, and secret spying was running amuck. As we employ these people, we should have a say as to what is funded. How would an employer feel if he had a secret project in his company that had an unlimited budget. Ya think he might want to know details? You think the head of the project should tell him that he did not need to know, security and all that. And that he had no right to know what was going on? This is beyond bizarre
Can we send these Senators, the NSA/CIA/DHS/DOD/DOiJ fascists, and anybody who opposed Justin Amash's NSA-limiting amendment (like Barack "greater government transparency and protection for whistle blowers" Obama) to Russia and get Snowden back?
Now all restricted trade with russia will have to be proxied through the european union! That'll be a slight inconvenience maybe!
They're going to stop exporting backdoored PC's and routers?
Let the country that accepts Snowden be China. So then go ahead, pull the full court press. Put on sanctions, hell, put out a full trade embargo, a blockade even. Go ahead, go! Half a minute later, China stops buying US debt, and suddenly Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac look like the kids who run the lemonade stand beside the very slippery slope right through the gates of hell. But go ahead US legislators, go full blowhard. What goes around.
So we know that the NSA lied to Congress and about half of the representatives want to stop the spying that Snowden told us about. That would seem to make the implication that Congress has realized that the few people who actually seem to care are in the majority against it. So Snowden shouldn't be that big a fish. We have federal laws against illegal immigration but the feds have decided not to put any effort into enforcement since it isn't popular. We have federal laws against marajuana, but with states making it legal, the feds have decided not to put any effort into enforcement. Now we have one guy and enforcement isn't popular, but yet they're making a big deal of enforcement?
On the one hand, I kinda get it, you have to enforce the laws to keep your secrets safe. On the other hand they're doing that already and have made it impossible for Snowden to return to the US without likely imprisonment. Isn't that more than enough? I'm surprised they'd do something to harm international relations over it.
Is it possible that Snowden has more information they're afraid that he'll turn over to another government? If he does, what could it be to be worth this witchhunt? It reminds me of Assuange which became a much bigger witchhunt than it seemed to warrant. I'm beginning to think that there must be some really ugly skeletons in the closet if Congress is this worried about people spilling secrets.
First, let me say that I think Snowden has done us all a service. Setting that aside, however, the Senate has some seriously skewed priorities. One of the real foreign policy accomplishments of the President's first term was the 'reset' with Russia, which helped improve relations after the mistakes made during the Bush era. Among other things, this allowed the supply of our troops in Afghanistan over Russian territory when it hit the fan in Pakistan. I'm certainly not a fan of that war, but if we're going to have soldiers over there it's much better that they be supplied.
Is the Senate really willing to sacrifice the gains made with Russia "to get a 29-year-old hacker" (as he's been termed) who likely has already given away all the information he possesses? Is it worth the strength of our relationship with one of the world's great powers to get at one guy whom Lindsey Graham regards as a traitor? What exactly are the Senate's priorities anyway?
Let's see them put sanctions on *those* assholes!
The fourth most useless group of assholes on Earth. Only outweighed by such stalwarts as the Kansas Board of Education, the owners of MLB, the Japanese Fisheries Board, your local HOA, and the executive board of News Corp.
Never go full retard.
As per usual the narcissistic US government thinks it runs the world. Fuck you all.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I plan to enact sanctions against any US "lawmaker" who pledges to enact sanctions against an entire nation -- purely because that nation is considering a valid request for humanitarian asylum. The United States has tortured and indefinitely held prisoners, and continues to do so. Hell, I'm a US citizen and I'm scared of the raw psychopathy my country's government has displayed these past twelve or so years. Until there are trials and those who tortured are held accountable, the reputation of the United States will continue to suffer worldwide, full stop.
Predictable as it was, this is about the worst US could do in this case. For the first, it indirectly validates many of Snowdens claims about what the US is doing. For the second, it lends support to any request for asylum - after this there can be no doubt that he can not expect a fair trial in the US, when the whole system is so clearly out to get him. It plays directly in Snowderns favor - what he needs now is more publicity and escalation of the matter. Before he was an international incident, Snowden could have quietly disappeared after the noise settled down. Now his disappearance will be noticed, and be front page news, even many years from now.
While I can't claim to be intimately fimiliar with the relevant international law: the UN CRSR (1951) probably applies. It specifically doesn't apply to "War Criminals", but I'm not sure what else.
Business Insider have a somewhat cynical take on Snowden's asylum claim which I think is worth reading.
go f*ck yourselves... cause the world can't give a single f*ck of what you want... /eagle/burger/tits/guns/freedom/murica
the dems have joined them.
Snowden is gone. We should just SHUT UP and allow him to run around for a while. At some point, he will want to come back to the west. We can capture him then. However, if we act this nuts threatening all other nations, then at some point, a Russian or Chinese will run and they will want him back.
This is about as insane as the issue with assanage. The guy is NOT an American, nor did he swear allegience to our nation or to not reveal secrets. As such, we have NO rights to Assanage. To go after him like this is just plain foolish.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Few countries provide the kind of consumers with disposable income/available credit and an insatiable desire to buy shit like the US. You don't close the door on your biggest client. This posturing is aimed at the central and south American countries, not at Russia.
And it's unlikely that Russia will decide to take in Snowden. Remember - they have leakers and political refugees, too. We (the US and Russia) are fare more similar than dissimilar. Like flirting with the waiter/waitress at a restaurant in front of your significant other, it's being done for amusement, and everybody gets their jollies out of it. Getting the phone number of your server and then shacking up isn't on the menu for either side in this dysfunctional but stable relationship.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The same vote struck down an amendment to reel in the NSAs domestic spying program. Oh the irony, the painful, gut wrenching irony ...
The oath of office seems to cause brain death.
to insert wooden sticks up their ass.
holded holded holded holded holded holded
{0_0}
held
We can't all get what we want. It's so sad!
Personally, I'd love to see China offfer Snowden asylum. The likely result of a Chinese trade embargo would shutdown most wal-marts, and would be a catalyst in bringing manufacturing back to the US. This would be a win-win.
My initial reaction was really, my secondary reaction is to go to the liquor tore and start hoarding the best russian vodkas.
Sigh, I really think that our senators and congressmen are a big group of metally retarded ninnies.
the rest of the world has more reasons to sanction the US than we do over a WHISTLEBLOWER
at my house where I legally grow dope. He can come help me work the garden and smoke all the dope he can.
I think I speak for the whole world when I say FUCK YOU USA!!! Hope you go down in flames in the next 5 years I'll get the marshmallows ready on a stick so I can melt them over the fire you burn in. I'll be standing on 0 Ave in Surrey roasting the marshmallows.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Anyone ever considered the possibility he's an NSA Plant? What better way to get on the 'inside' of the 'enemy'...proper media coverage and a bit of spin...some 'secrets' to leak to gain the trust of the 'whistle-blower' community? *shrugs*
There are three kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't.
Congress can't unilaterally "direct" the executive branch to do anything. All the President has to do is veto the bill (and he will) and too bad, so sad.
There's no way Obama is going to sit back and let Congress tell him what to do. It's that simple.
The Senate Appropriations Committee supposedly did this unanimously so not a single one of these people can claim it's not their fault:
BARBARA A. MIKULSKI - Maryland
CHRIS COONS - Delaware
DAN COATS - Indiana
DIANNE FEINSTEIN - California
JACK REED - Rhode Island
JEANNE SHAHEEN - New Hampshire
JEFF MERKLEY - Oregon
JERRY MORAN - Jerry Moran
JOHN BOOZMAN - Arkansas
JOHN HOEVEN - North Dakota
JON TESTER - Montana
LAMAR ALEXANDER - Tennessee
LINDSEY GRAHAM - South Carolina
LISA MURKOWSKI - Alaska
MARK BEGICH - Alaska
MARK KIRK - Illinois
MARK PRYOR - Arkansas
MARY L. LANDRIEU - Louisiana
MIKE JOHANNS - Nebraska
MITCH MCCONNELL - Kentucky
PATRICK J. LEAHY - Vermont
PATTY MURRAY - Washington
RICHARD C. SHELBY - Alabama
RICHARD J. DURBIN - Illinois
ROY BLUNT - Missouri
SUSAN COLLINS - Maine
THAD COCHRAN - Mississippi
TIM JOHNSON - South Dakota
TOM HARKIN - Iowa
TOM UDALL - New Mexico
But maybe this was one of those "voice votes" where it wasn't really unanimous. It's being reported as unanimous, though, so the disgraced need to issue press releases disclaiming responsibility immediately, if they want to squirm out of this. I live in NM so I blame you, Tom Udall. Explain yourself.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The specific names are hard to come by right now.
Let's fix that. It was a unanimous voice vote. Here are the names. Contact them and tell them what you will:
RICHARD C. SHELBY (R), Alabama
LISA MURKOWSKI (R), Alaska
MARK BEGICH (D), Alaska
JOHN BOOZMAN (R), Arkansas
MARK PRYOR (D), Arkansas
DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), California
CHRIS COONS (D), Delaware
MARK KIRK (R), Illinois
RICHARD DURBIN (D), Illinois
DAN COATS(R), Indiana
TOM HARKIN (D), Iowa
JERRY MORAN(R), Kansas
MITCH MCCONNELL (R), Kentucky
MARY L. LANDRIEU (D), Louisiana
SUSAN COLLINS (R), Maine
BARBARA MIKULSKI (D), Maryland
THAD COCHRAN (R), Mississippi
ROY BLUNT(R), Missouri
JON TESTER (D), Montana
MIKE JOHANNS (R), Nebraska
JEANNE SHAHEEN (D), New Hampshire
TOM UDALL (D), New Mexico
JOHN HOEVEN(R), North Dakota
JEFF MERKLEY (D), Oregon
JACK REED (D), Rhode Island
LINDSEY GRAHAM(R), South Carolina
TIM JOHNSON (D), South Dakota
LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), Tennessee
PATRICK LEAHY (D), Vermont
PATTY MURRAY (D), Washington
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
"If you tell mommy I won't let you play with my toys!"
Like watching a little kid running to his mom before his brother tells her that the runt has been eating all the sugar in the kitchen.
Better hope he doesn't go to South America. The US could not survive without coffee.
Snowden is part of a vastly grander game of geopolitical chess. Blair and his people have incredible influence within the USA. After 9/11 it was Tony Blair, NOT any US figure, who toured the world and said "everything must change". Blair's machinations allowed the US Neocon movement to become the driving force behind both the Democrat and Republican parties of today.
But even though when Blair rings, Obama drops whatever he is doing and answers, Blair is not, and has never operated on behalf of America's best interests. The relationship between Blair and Putin is on a completely different level. With Blair's assistance, Putin's rise has been spectacular and continuous. Putin came to power on the back of the Moscow apartment block bombings- a false flag that his people were caught red-handed executing.
Blair, in one of the greatest chess moves ever seen, returned the Ukraine back to Russian control via the Georgia ploy. Blair had persuaded the moronic Americans to arm the brutal dictator of Georgia to the teeth with modern NATO weapons, and to promise him full NATO membership if he waged war against local Russian peace-keeping forces. Blair chose the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games for the attack, and got the American government to give the dictator the greenlight.
Blair made sure Putin's forces were ready and prepared to act against the despicable cowardly sneak attack by NATO's proxy. Within a few days, Putin had wiped out the entire set of NATO military installations within Georgia, with almost zero civilian casualties. Blair and Putin were careful to leave the dictator, Saakashvili, in power, to ensure maximum damage to local US reputation, as the American government continued to give him full support in the years that followed.
The political fallout, as intended, ended the so-called American funded 'color' revolutions in ex-Soviet territories. The Ukraine ended up imprisoning the American agent that had ruled for a time, Yulia Tymoshenko, and once again became, effectively, a part of the Russian empire.
Now most Americans have forgotten about the Georgia War, if they ever noticed it in the first place. Snowden is yet another similar ploy. His actions are ruinous to America's reputation. There are many people in mid-level positions in target nations that actually believed in the moral superiority of the USA. Blair is ensuring that people fear the USA as the Earth's dominant psychopathic mass murdering gangster, and do not respect the USA in any sense. This reverses the situation that prevailed during much of the 20th century, where much of the Earth's population really did believe in the fantasy of America as a land of freedom and justice.
Blair wants to back the USA into a corner, so America simply says "F**k it, we're going to attack nations like Iran with our nuclear weapons, and not even pretend we have an excuse". Blair wants to liberate the inner gangster of the USA, the true nature of that nation. Pro-war propaganda and pro-police-state propaganda dominate the lives of ordinary Americans today. Never has the USA been more secure. Never has the USA had fewer powerful enemies willing to act against its interests. And yet, America has been persuaded, almost single handedly by Blair and his people, to be more paranoid than at any other time in its history.
The more evil America becomes, the more it spends on military power. The more it spends on military power, the more evil it becomes. China and Russia see America as the greatest threat to Earth's future, and Blair ensures this fear only grows.
Blair would love for the US to either murder Snowden, or retaliate against Russia in some worse way. This would run counter to all international norms, but Blair figures he has got the USA to the point where this would be no big deal. Understand that there is a line for the USA that once crossed, means there is no going back. Every psychopath that becomes a serial killer crosses that line at some point. America currently stands at the very edge of that line.
Seems we have a stalemate. If the US makes good on this threat then it's tickling the dragons tail and entertaining war. Even if it doesn't we now know the extent to which our policymakers will go to deny individual rights and freedoms. Snowden is toast. He's going to get a royal flambé for the egregious crime of telling the US public how the government is violating their rights and flaunting the law every single day, for every single person in the whole US. Nobody snitches on the US government.
So they either look like immoral dicks, or like TREMENDOUSLY immoral dicks - it's going to be interesting to see this play out.
I remember a few years ago this Democratic senator making impassioned speeches for protection for whistleblowers and against Bush's wars in the middle-east, gitmo prison and NSA spying on Americans.
I wish I could remember his name.
Yeah that's sarcasm, mod me down.
What resources do they have? What do they produce? What brainpower do they have?
Keep waving your plastic Stars And Stripes made in China and enjoy your police state, you obese stupid fucks.
Let me see if I've got this right. An agency of the federal government, with almost no oversight, has been spending billions of dollars spying on US citizens without a warrant or probable cause in violation of the 4th amendment to the US Constitution, the founding document of this republic, as well many other laws and congress is OK with this. However, some low-level contractor tells the American people they are being spied on and congress want everyone to drop what they are doing and use everything they have to go after this guy. This includes forcing an airplane with diplomatic ammunity to land so it can be searched in violation of G*D know how many treaties.
Have I got this right? Well! I'm glad I live in a free country! USA! USA!
Another day closer to redwood heaven
Screwed.
Then embargo on Iran has caused Pistachios to jump from 3.45 lb to as much as 19.00 lb I miss them I do.
That vote wasn't for sanctions, they know it'll never happen.
It was a vote to keep them all in office by getting publicity.
-
That's what you get when you elect and create a government/army which thinks has full rights to the lives of every living thing on the planet. US has spent much more than the whole planet on military for decades.
That crazy machine has risen against yourself and the humanity.
Snowden must be very, very right to frighten politicians so much.
First off, it might knock some sense into Washington.
Second, if we can't buy goods from anyone else, we'd have to....wait for it....wait...."Make them in the U.S.A."
...who, by the way, has been convicted of no crime - is so dangerous and so important, that the USA feels it necessary to threaten revenge against the entire planet if they let him stay there while things run their course? Wow. I mean, it's a little awkward for him now, but I don't recall threats like this even regarding known killers and terrorists. Think of the ego boost!
Maybe he should sneak into the US. Then they'd have to sanction themselves, which would be the ultimate troll.
John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Dianne Feinstain, Rep King, and everyone who voted no on the Amash bill, you are all a bunch of hypocritical enemies of liberty.
'have joined them.'
- No, they've been nuts for a very long time, you're just to fucking stupid too realize it or wonder why? Quick question, is the US Congress really this stupid or is there an ulterior motive / exterior force at work? Gee I don't know boss, I just work here.
After the Battle of Trafalgar, Napoleon decided that Great Britain should be blockaded. Any country that did business with the British would be his enemy. Well, um, it was the largest seagoing power at the time. Countries HAD to do business with the British. So, Napoleon dragged his empire into a death of 1,000 cuts by getting involved in needless conflicts. Snowdon basically has to go to China, France, Russia or someone who prefers to have an arm's length relationship with the US now. Whoever does house him may end up making a lot of political hay from this.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
At some point, he will want to come back to the west.
Here we have a glimpse of where the term "Ugly American" originates from.
We can capture him then.
Who's this "we"? I'm American, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that you don't speak for me.
Isn't this exactly the reason why some of the noisy gun owners say the government can't take their guns. I keep hearing that they'll fight for their freedoms but so far the government has just been taking them away. Not that we are doing anything about losing our freedoms up here in Canada either.
I don't think you get it yet. You're tanking your approval ratings and are likely to lose your seat as you continue down your path. The world is now waking up. Even the people of the US are waking up. And "telling the truth about crimes being committed" is not treason. It's just not. And trying to support, defend and protect people in criminal activies? Well, I think that's a crime too if understand it correctly. So what are you doing exactly?
Snowden should go to China then. And China would like to sanction the US.
I just sent Feinstein an email.
I thought having millions rednecks armed to the teeth was supposed to prevent this sort of thing...
The Pentagon has been giving away secrets for years[1] (and they aren't the only ones) due to, what can only be assumed to be, very poor security policies. What's more, even the farmed-out[2] work to privatized military industries has fallen victim to much of the same, even jeopardizing the welfare of other countries. Tell me now, how is it these members of the US Congress thinks it's ok to fry Snowdens ass, but ignore the gross negligence of others which is responsible for some very big losses both in the taxpayer money, as well as technical miltary advantages?
[1] http://www.scmagazine.com/previously-classified-malwares-role-in-pentagon-attack/article/177561/
[2] http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/28/18556787-chinese-hackers-steal-us-weapons-systems-designs-report-says?lite
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Here's my best-case-scenario:
Snowden pulls off a fake-your-own-death stunt and then releases all that damning info anyway, just to show em all. LOL
Ah... I can't stop laughing.
The Democrats have been like this for quite a while, they were only posturing when Bush was in office. Pelosi, for example, has pushed funding for surveillance programs for at least a decade.
I don't know what you should call these people, but they are not "the US". They are certainly not me and I resent the implication that they represent me. At the risk of Godwinning a thread, now I know how Germans feel when they say, "Germany did...". No. The nazis did. How about "the RepublicRats". "RepublicRats want sanctions". Works for me.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
if the US can't get Snowden within 90 days, they'll lose the attention of the American public. Then the CIA can kill him the way they did Senator Wellstone, with an airplane crash that nobody will investigate because hey, Minnesota, ice. Nevermind that the Russians have the same experience with clearing ice of plane wings.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
I wonder about the outcome if Russia attacks such trade sanctions at the WTO.
That sounds like an unconstitutional bill of attainder to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder
It is "an act of a legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without privilege of a judicial trial." This is prohibited by Article I, Section 9 of the US Constitution.
The U.S. Senate is now for certain a Lunatic Asylum.
Have any of the 'Senators' read about 'Due Process'?
Seems their minds have left them for sure now.
When the Radar carrying blimps are stationed over Washington D.C. it is for sure time to leave the 'Titanic'.
Wake up and smell the roses -- Just a day after your congress failed to amend a bill with an article to de-fund the domestic spy net exposed by Edward Snowden, they made sure to unanimously amend another bill with a different article to sanction an entire country--site unseen-- for harboring him from prosecution for what is essentially whistle-blowing. They are employing historic pressure already, having called on allies to ground a diplomat's plane he was rumored to be aboard.
Anyone who doubts the authenticity of Snowden's information, or the level of access he had in his position, need only look at the effort being expended by this government to reel him in to cast all doubt aside.
I would at least applaud them for being internally-consistent, if it weren't for the fact that they're only consistent against the ideals this country is supposed to hold dear.
And yet, our nation will capture him once he steps foot in the west.
Sadly, you ACs are the ugly ones.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Well, I am one of those who worked on the US PATRIOT act, so I am well aware of the situation. I also know that the dems have not liked this situation. In fact, too much so. They went along with because they had no choice.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
There are no grounds to file sanctions against a country that takes in Snowden. What violation of international law would you cite?
I'm American... And this whole thing has just been an embarrassment for one of our premier intelligence agencies.
The NSA is actually good at what they do... but apparently the US government in general is having a hard time keeping its fly zipped.
Seems like the US government is having major overreach issues. That is they're being given too many responsibilities and too much to manage and they just fail at a certain point. Its too much. The government in general needs to get scaled back.
The new medical bill is an example of this... Yes, I know... lots of people are now going to flame me because they want socialized medicine. Well, do you trust the US government to keep your private medical records secret? Because so far they've been pretty bad at protecting ANY private citizen's data. And every time they get more data it just makes identity theft easier.
Whatever... the current situation is the product of irrational expectations by various factions within our society. The end result is serial failure. Carry on.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Unless they're part of a large, organized and otherwise legitimate movement, "fighting for their freedoms" will just get them branded as terrorists and disappeared. For all we know, patriots fighting back are the entirety of the "successfully averted terrorist attacks" that the government claims its domestic spy programs have stopped.
Really? No choice?
What? Is someone blackmailing them or something?
you import beef from canada in massive amounts then export it back to us and other nations.
SAME for wheat and oil and other resources....we are 7th on worlds largest economy , imagine if we forced that shill harper out of office early and raised the possibility of sanctions on you and instead exported to the euro zone and china and russia...
lil bump while its all setup and bang were good
JUST so you can get a grasp of what it takes....
6 months and free trade can be revoked to the usa.
SIX MONTHS....
lest we forget your thieving of the 4 billion in softwood lumber you stole.
so no your exports a food would drop to none and less your a massive importer of everything....remember your place if you piss off the pwrld bad neough its gonna start happening with us making more deals to others nations....
and we are doing it....harpers a noob at it....but we'll get there....
An American citizen told the rest of the American citizens (and, by extension) the world what their government was up to.
Suppose he goes to (say) Ecuador. So now the American government wants to use force against any American who wants to engage in mutually-beneficial trade with an Ecuadorian, to the mutual harm of both? Neither of them has anything to do with geopolitics -- they just want to trade bananas for tractors, or whatever it is, and really wish their governments would fuck right off and let them do it.
We have governments because they're supposed to make our lives better, but how is this wankery good for anyone?
Seriously....saw her on some of the Sunday news programs after Snowden affair first came out. She's rabidly pro-NSA...
Amused by the scenario of what would happen if the Vatican gave him asylum then? Not that I know of it being possible, feasible or remotely likely, but still, I chuckled.
Guillotine these idiots on the White House lawn.
Problem solved.
I think the fact that they're not fighting it now, when they do have a choice, and that they didn't fight it in 2008 when they had more power in congress, says that their not liking it before had more to do with partisanship than anything else, whether they admitted it or not. No excuses for those bastards, they're as bad as the Republicans on this issue.
...fascism at its finest point!
Holy crap! Some peasant called Snowdon has lifted the lid on how we are all a bunch of self-serving, crooked assholes who ignore the constitution, law and basic morals!
Jesus! You're kidding?
No, it's true!
Why hasn't he been killed yet?
He left the country for somewhere less obviously corrupt!
Damn! Better pull out all the stops on this one, threaten every other country in the world with sanctions, at all costs we must ensure that telling the truth is harshly punished.
Excuse me?
I was just at the Chinese embassy this week to obtain a visa.
I didn't realise it was a Chinese custom to encourage enemy aliens to visit their country.
And I guess I'll have to tell my fiancée to move out and that the wedding's off. Wouldn't want to marry an enemy national, now, would I?
Come to think of it, we had guests from Russia stay with us for a week or so last summer.
Man, I've been consorting with enemies left and right, haven't I?
Whatever am I going to do?
Tell your friends that they should be quite careful what kind of jokes they make on the phone since it could mean a drone strike on them when misinterpreted. And they should tell their friends and friends' friends the same. Three hops, you know.
So.... Article 12 of THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, 10 December 1948, States ( pun intended ), "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."
But in the USA and across the "Western Liberal Democracies," Liberal/Leftwing and Conservative/Rightwing are actively passing laws that violate this Human Right. These governments are signatories of THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.
Speculation: The attack is co-ordinated.
Speculation: The attack is initiated by The One Percent, to ensure they keep a tight hold on global wealth.
Speculation: The www & democracy potentially threaten there wealth and power base.
Speculation: The www & democracy, must therefore be removed.
Speculation: Democracy and the www will continue to be hammered out of shape for some time, before they get any better.
Hope: That people across the globe rise up to make it better or we are about to become slaves.
Surprised nobody done it yet in this thread...
Situation is similar to having nazi camp guard escaping with photos of the atrocities committed there to give the proof to the world and Germany demanding his extradiction, because he is a criminal and betrayed state secrets. And if you protect him, we will send bunch of V-2 in your direction.
Edward Snowden has been charged with no crime. He is _alleged_ to have committed crimes, but evidence of due process is so lacking as to be non-existent.
Show me a criminal indictment, and I will happily serve as juror.
Until then, any power seeking unlawfully to curtail the human rights of a person based solely upon their uttered words is a power whose charter I reject. Even if that power is itself the U.S.A.
This is really the central issue. There are few American values outside of money any longer, and this moral hazard is in the process of destroying the country.
In this case, we have a whistleblower providing evidence that
1) The American government is spying on American citizens without obtaining any warrants, unless you count secret court orders that have no judicial oversight*
2) This program is even kept as a secret from other parts of the government
3) Parts of the government have been lying to congress about what the spying program is about, who they have collected information on, and how they go about collecting it
*(This is a hugely important point. One of the favorite tricks of a totalitarian regime is to legitimize anti-democratic activity by simply making it legal. But if the constitution says we are free from unreasonable searches and seizures, a secret law passed by a secret court shouldn't hold sway. The only difference between our government and despotism is that they get more than one person to declare the government's will, pass it around in secret to co-conspirators who share the same backwards worldview, and then pretend that the theater they just acted for has some legitimacy.
The stark reality is that our government is corrupt and therefore does whatever it wants. As Nixon famously stated: When the President does it, it's not illegal. Then the question has to be asked: if that's the case, what is the difference between a President and a King?)
In essence, there is a part of our government that has approved its own spying program in a process that the public has no chance of knowing about.
So, why aren't we hearing about this in the media? Why are we instead hearing about his girlfriend, or his personal life? Because American media is no longer tasked with seeking the truth. Their primary concern is profit, and covering the birth of a British child is a lot more profitable than hiring skilled journalists to do journalism. Additionally, the Executive routinely threatens to cut off access to their staff for any news organizations that step out of line. For organizations like the Guardian, that risk is minimized, since they don't depend on empty stories to fill the vacuum of the 24 hour news cycle. For someone like CNN or Fox, the only thing that matters is the ratings, and that's best achieved by cheap, exasperated, stupid television. They can fill the airtime with "breaking news" about celebrities, or cat videos, or whatever pretend journalism is the cheapest to produce, but they feel like they need access so they can continue presenting the strained theater of left versus right. Every headline screams out: "Obama 'slams' GOP Leadership" or "Boehner threatens retaliation for 'nuclear option.'"
Boehner and his counterparts are barely able to communicate with regular voters, but that's because they have no idea what it's like to be a regular voter. They probably don't know what a loaf of bread costs, because they have servants and assistants who do that sort of thing for them. Half of congress is made up of millionaire lawyers, and the result of that is a bunch of outrageously overwrought laws that have nothing to do with helping anyone but their rich friends. Even now while they are discussing what tax breaks to keep, they have demanded that the proposal be kept a secret for fifty years . The reason is because if the truth were known, you could go down the line and see the leashes traveling from the election year donors to the politicians they have bought and paid for. Which would be great to know during the next election, but again, you don't matter. You don't exist, as far as they are concerned.
Back to the media... taking on the US government is expensive, and not only are the producers (who couldn't give two shits about our rights) not invested in the truth, but there's also probably an army of lawyers worried about getting entangled in expensive
I would like to see sanctions on entities that read mail on an industrial scale.
Privacy is terrorism.
Mao is dead and China's agricultural sector recovered so much that China exports a lot of food. However that's irrelevant anyway since there's plenty of other wheat exporting countries that would like to have China as a customer but haven't been able to compete with US taxpayer subsidised wheat.
It would piss off the US wheat lobby a great deal though, have a dramatic economic effect on some regions and end a few political careers in the US.
only trade sanctions? Why not call it "War on Snowden", say that " We will starve Snowden of funding, turn everyone against him, drive him from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest", and bomb them who dares to do anything against it...?
Snowden is neither accused nor convicted of any crime.
Yet the US seems to be about to threat to sanction any country that harbors him.
I think the US would finally officially and publicly say goodbye to being a constitutional state and to obeying the rule of law.
And I'm very interested in the WTO-Implications.
This could be a good thing for the rest of the world.
I'm already happy to see all US citizens upset by this (yet another) stupid vote by their rulers...
it gives me a tiny sparkle of hope for your country, which does not look like it has a very bright future...
although on election day, this sparkle of hope fades away pretty fast...
So the US are not part of the planet?
Russia is in a very difficult position. The USA is a big and complicated place.
Keep Snowden and it will get economical sanctions. It is the last thing Russia needs right now. Extradite him and it will get in the same can with dubious political forces.
Certainly, an apartment with a large balcony could be built in the transit zone of the Sheremetyevo airport. Still better than a cellblock.
Or what? A brilliant idea, perhaps?
get out with your friends and start writing phrases on walls such as "Snowden is a true patriot", "The NSA are reading your emails" etc. Like the 911 Truthers are doing.
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Surveillance is terrorism
Every bloody emperor has his hand up history's skirt [Peter Hammill/VdGG]
Someone needs to remind these assholes that economic sanctions are an act of war.
-jcr
these same fucks who said earlier that hacking is an act of WAR and promptly authorizing hacking against all their allies & economic partners?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Out of all the problems the world faces, drugs are the least important
Keep telling yourself that mate, don't look at actual figures that say an American is 7x as likely as a Chinese or a European to be locked up. And don't dig down to find that one reason for the appealing lead America has in incarceration rates is the war on drugs*. Ignore the fact that there is a heavily armed swat team knocking down your neighbor's door with a battering ram because someone smelt a wiff of the joint he was smoking. So yeah close your eyes and ears and everything will be just fine and dandy in the land of the free (from drugs) and for god sake don't investigate what happens to the children of the 500K pot smokers you have locked up. Don't inform yourself, just lock em all up and let god sort it out, eh?
Given that drug abuse is endemic amongst low-income minorities in America, I can't help but think that drug legalization is a covert form of racism
Now that's irony with a capital "I" - the American prohibition on dope was promoted by the government of the day as a way to get "lazy Mexicans" back to work.
Your hate for junkies and potheads is clearly and democratically expressed in those numbers, but the facts of life are such that prohibition has never worked and never will, all it does it create a huge black market and what that delivers to society is misery in the form of oppression (note the date on the bend), violence and corruption. Those who are still ignorant enough to support it are the moral criminals in the war on (some) drugs, the fact they are a "well meaning" democratic mob is of little comfort to the victims.
you should be ashamed of yourself
Why? I'm a proud grandfather of three, I'm a degree qualified professional and have not been out of work since 1981, I currently earn around twice the national average wage and live on the shores of port phillip bay. I've been a responsible pot smoker since 1977 but it's none of yours or the government's dammed business how or why I abuse my own lungs in my own home. And yes I'm sure my employer and the US government read my slashdot posts, thing is at 54 I'm too old to be ashamed of my behavior and will happily admit to, and defend, my pot smoking (although I don't normally tell people like you, for obvious reasons).
So next time you're at a work party sipping on your free grog, have a look around. One in five of those people will be a responsible pot smoker and according to you they should be locked up, their children made into wards of the state, and their family home/farm sold by the state as an illegally acquired asset (regardless of where the money actually came from or the fact that there was only a couple of plants in a well lit closet).
* - Not sure if the following stats are on that page, but here is your "non problem" in a nutshell..
-The 27 nations of the EU have a population of 500M and a total prison population of 600K.
-The US has population of 300M, a total prison population of over 2M of which 500K are locked up for victimless drug crimes.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
This is one of the most concise and insightful comments I have read in a long time! Thank you DeanKlear, you have performed an important public service.
Ten years ago I put up a web site called "BreakTheLink" in which I made most of the same points, and at that time I was generally referred to as a "nut case" because I pointed out that campaign contributions are, in fact, bribes. The point of the web site was to get people to help circulate a petition for an ammendment to the Florida constitution directed toward political bribery. Even though hundreds of people expressed support on the included blog, not a single one would help by collecting signatures. NOT ONE. I must admit that this experience was not encouraging. After three years of trying, I gave the project up. How things have changed!
This experience made me began to wonder how I could get out of this completely immoral "Christian" country. People will agree with the points made, but very few will actually try and do anything. As a people, we have been carefully conditioned to believe ourselves helpless.
Then the "occupy" movement happened, and I found myself with a couple hundred of my fellow citizens occupying the lawn of our local city hall. What an experience! I found out there were actually people like you, people who understood the situation and were willing to risk something to fight it. Unfortunately, it was obvious even then that the occupy movement would fail, it never had any chance at all except as a symbolic gesture. Such gestures are powerful though, they redirect energy into more productive paths. Now, you have to be a complete idiot to not recognize our government as illigitamate and corrupt to the core.
Demonstrations have their place, but there is the possibility of a much more effective effort. An effort that could actually win back our now absent democracy. That means is simply this: we, the people, can organize and hold our own elections whereby the corporate candidates are actually voted out of their offices. Exactly how this might be done effectively is described in the book "Revolution Handbook" which can be downloaded free at this link: PoiesisResearch.com/Handbook.php I hope you will take a look at it.
This has all the grace of a Balmer temper tantrum.
If a private corperation was doing what the federal government is doing there would be a massive outcry for the arrest of the company heads. Since its the government doing it it must be ok????
NO. The government should not be my master, i should not have to ask permission from daddy government to do things. This is just silly, i dont want daddy government.
This is the crap we accused the red russians of doing when i eas a kid in the 70's, and now its our own democratic socialist government doing it to us.
Right now US lawmakers couldn't pass gas in a chili house. I think they've managed to pass all of 15 laws this session, and next month they plan on working only 7 days (all that doing nothing has apparently exhausted them). Their polling numbers hit a record low this month. So they can't actually do anything, and everybody hates them.
Snowden should be more worried about what polar bears think of him than the US Congress.
So you have the balls to sanction countries over a small time intelligence leak but castrated when it comes to prosecuting large financial institutions that crashed the global economy....nice....
someone ought to place a reward for leaking it. Maybe we need a kickstarter for whistleblowers.
Jonathan Pollard?
Somebody ought to break into the court and paint stars on the ceiling.
This may be the worst congress I'll witness in my life. They can't pass any laws, but they are willing to sacrifice international relationships to save face, even though the damage is already done. R.I.P. democracy; you had a good run.
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation fromfiles in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1CVyUlFkyI
Content sites have moved towards the single-page-application mode because it's the only real way to do "responsive" design, so that the content can be readable on devices with very narrow margins. They normally have to radically change their layout to make this happen, it's really not possible to do it with CSS. The second reason they do it is to avoid the browser window having to reload because a new URL is fetched. Fetching content asynchronously via AJAX makes for a better user experience. I'm not sure exactly what your security concerns are, but from here it looks indistinguishable from paranoia.
You don't own the World
Casteism
Yup.... War on Drugs. Back in the early 80's - on the first weekend after the implementation of the "War on Drugs" I was pulled over by the police and searched, my car was searched, and the officer pinched my leg while checking my pockets. The officer also asked me in an accusing manner if I had anything that I shouldn't. It was rather violating and denegrating. After ripping through my stuff (which included clean folded laundry - which then needed to be gathered and re-washed), I was told that I had been pulled over because I had a light out. I looked to see what he was referring to, but saw no light out.... He told me it was my license plate light - but let me go without a ticket. My garage later told me that the license plate light was not required to pass inspection. The real reason I was pulled over - I was driving a van at night.... Talk about our freedoms getting flushed right down the toilet.... And the masses were "drinking the Kool-Aid".
Would be to affect a revolution to upset this situation _without_ armed resistance. I think the outcome of such turmoil would be longer lived than if it was a violent clash. It would hurt poor people even more in the recovery phase, while the rich would still be fine.
Also, you need to check up on your history if you seemingly believed the United States was, at any time, a shining beacon of democracy and hope/opportunity for all people. This was most possibly true during the early 19th century, and even then, that only counted if you were a white male and it was fueled by an expansion westward and appropriation of resources once used by displaced native peoples.
Don't let yourself be whitewashed to history.
Keep telling yourself that mate, don't look at actual figures
Bwahahahahha! "actual figures" and "Wikipedia". You crack me up!
in terms of % of GDP, both Russia and China outspend them by a great deal.
But, I guess you see what you want to see. It is like those that push CO2 emissions / capitia, rather than CO2 emissions / GDP. They pick stats that are worthless yet, they will push them hoping that it will stick as being the measure.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
How much does the GOP pay you to troll here? And how did you get your job? Did Boner and Cantor at least kiss you before doing your ass, or did he make you sux his cock and swallow?
We have met the enemy and he is US.
While I am glad Snowden got the worlds attention about something we all knew the US was doing (or should have known if anyone actually thought about the patriot act), I also understand the viewpoint of treason and such (a older concept that seems to no longer be understood).
That all said what about sovereignty of nations, and innocent until proven guilty by a trial of your peers?
Oh and for what it is worth, I would vote freedom/liberty over life every. single. time. Ever wonder what was awesome about the old west or what George Washington fought for?
Logic and drugs all in one post? I had a mate at Frankston Beach. Lovely place.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
"A system that could have been used to give us unlimited freedom is being used to gradually enslave us."
Thus the point about irony and the 21st century in my sig...
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Edithvale, best beach in Melbourne. :)
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I was raided by the drug squad in 1980, they found nothing because I had nothing. They were surprisingly friendly and somewhat sheepish about searching after initially surrounding the house and jamming a jackboot in the doorway, maybe it was my calm (bewildered) demeanor or perhaps it was the wife and baby in the background that helped chill them out. Whatever it was they basically gave up after looking in a couple of cupboards and the greenhouse out back, when they left they said it was an "anonymous tip off" and hinted that the old woman next door didn't approve of young men with long hair.
I have no ill feeling toward the drug squad because of the raid, they behaved like people put into an awkward position by social circumstance, apologized profusely for the commando crap, and did not trash the place - but I know for a fact that it doesn't always turn out like that.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Excellent post, sir. I think I qualify as a responsible pot smoker for the last 10 years (I only smoke the stuff at night, and never drive or do anything that requires me being sober after). I don't live in the US but I can relate, tolerance here in Brazil is higher but smoking cannabis is still a stigma and many are or would be ostracized if their (well, almost harmless) habit was made known.
This is a UDP joke, I don't care if you get it or not...