Slashdot Mirror
Tim Cook May Not Know Why, But Samsung Is Winning in China
An anonymous reader writes with this interesting snippet about the state of mobile tech in China: "Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook believes that 'over the arc of time' China is a huge opportunity for his pathbreaking company. But time looks to be on the side of rival Samsung Electronics, which has been around far longer and penetrated much deeper into the world's most populous country. Apple this week said its revenue in Greater China, which also includes Hong Kong and Taiwan, slumped 43 per cent to $4.65 billion from the previous quarter. That was also 14 per cent lower from the year-ago quarter. Sales were weighed down by a sharp drop in revenues from Hong Kong. "It's not totally clear why that occurred," Cook said on a conference call with analysts. Neither is it totally clear what Apple's strategy is to deal with Samsung – not to mention a host of smaller, nimbler Chinese challengers."
It's cheaper for what you get (ton more features, and they don't need to be babied like North Americans / other i users).
It has a pressure sensitive stylus for writing asian languages.
It's an asian company. While they might hate Koreans, they hate US people even more.
Stupid company is stupid.
Captcha: Liberty
actually it is, Tim. The Chinese want cheaper phones, and they want phones you can put pirated warez on. Apple doesn't score well in either category.
It's price to some extent. However the fact that Samsung has had a larger presence in China for longer is pretty critical. Tim Cook doesn't seem very smart.
What somewhat surprises me is that Samsung's phones would be holding out against the torrent of slightly-to-substantially cheaper indigenous handsets in China. Sure, the quality can be somewhere between 'uneven' and 'totally fucking dire'; but Samsung's phones are also well known for being plasticky and horribly skinned, so they aren't competing that aggressively on quality.
Am I being too harsh on Samsung? Are the local offerings Just That Dreadful?
I live in HK and can pretty much afford any phone. I use Android base phone. More freedom, more options and customisation features and plenty of Android devices to chose from. Most HK people are smart enough to use Android. Hence, Android phones win over here.
There's a shift in China. Some foreign goods/brands remain as status symbols, but some are losing their luster.
The U.S. has been acting like a bigger dick than usual lately. Chinese consumers would rather not buy American (or Japanese) brands when there's a choice. It doesn't matter that the dick's product are made in China.
That's not my opinion, so don't get mad at me. That's what I was told when I was there last month.
Their "strategy" has been to position themselves as a high-end boutique brand. China (and most of the world) wants a solid affordably-priced workhorse. And in Asia Samsung almost certainly has a higher brand recognition than Apple just because they're relatively local (Korean vs. North American) and have been around a lot longer. To win, Apple would need to stop being Apple.
For most Chinese people an iPhone costs too much money.
It seems all the American manfuctors are like Acer trying to outdo each other with who can make each product the cheapest. Dell and HP typically will pick components on who can make it $.005 cheaper than the rest and then wonder why marketshare is failing.
It is an extreme version of Milton Friedman economic theory where consumers will always buy the largest quantity of the cheapest product in a linear fashion.
Apple I would say is the exception and why they took over the market. Samsun however is now outdoing Apple. Where competitors never thought about the case and saved $.005 by using the cheapest plastic from China (not luxury plastic from Mexico as tthe workers demand more than $1 an hour ...), Samsung made polycarbonite compsities.
While the industry in the 2000s focused on cheap green screens and 8 colors, Samsung focused on 1080p and high pixel densisity. Samsung led the way with bigger screens too.
Samsung's marketshare is well deserved and they are even beating Apple today where they have tiny screens and are lacking in features.
http://saveie6.com/
Chinese people buy these things, too. I've been there and seen it done.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Make as good a product as they can, and let profit follow.
Marketshare is not a concern to Apple.
Also, unless you have shut yourself off from the internet, you cannot help but see ENDLESS waves of rumors about some kind of cheaper Apple phone on the way, which would pretty obviously be another strategy to get more customers in China.
It's funny how everyone frames it as a battle against Samsung, when over time Samsung is but one of many players in China that influence how Apple sells products.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you got into an Apple store, its rows of the same generation of products. If you have not bought into the cult or are on the upgrade cycle, its a hard sell to convert a new user at the price point with the same old OS/look/feel/range.
Samsung has products ranging from:
low cost glossy colour clamshell phones with the basic functionality a user needs at the local price point.
mid range tablet like products
larger size tablets
Buying Samsung feels good at any price and has a new feel about it.
Now you also have the NSA "inside" branding.
Apple cannot go too cheap, no can it clutter up its product lines again, some may recall the Performa years.
Better, longer local ads? Or learn from a UK drugmaker on how to "grow sales volume" with a nice bump to 'prices" in China?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
There are two reasons why people I know (myself included) have not bought Apple products.
1. Give us a bigger screen. My wife loves her iPhone and is looking at upgrading to whatever comes next, but after using my Galaxy S3 she would rather lose her familiarity with iOS (and all the apps she has paid for) to get a screen she can actually read.
2. Don't charge the $200 Apple premium. After being dicked around by Telcos, more and more people are buying their phones outright. It's not until you do this, that you suddenly see that an Apple iPhone is over $200 more expensive for a product (like the Galaxy S4, or the HTC One) which is better specced, but far cheaper.
People buying outright is also the same reason people aren't upgrading as much any more. You used to get a new phone every 2 years for free on some contracts, but with the premium commonly being charged people are happy to hold on for three/four years - or until their phone goes bang.
Not putting iOS 7 onto 3GS models is a smart move - it stops all those laggards from upgrading their OS, and forces them to start upgrading their hardware.
Yeah who cares about China? They have no exports and not many people live there anyway.
Uh, weird spastic response there guy.
Regardless of any outside comparisons a 43% revenue drop in a region as populous as greater china is an eyebrow raiser. Investors aren't lure by how much you make, it's by how much you GROW and the growing chinese middle class is a tasty market to gain traction in. Being shown to be slipping in that market is not the end of the world, but it is definitely significant when it is a market where you previously had more significant presence.
Granted this isn't a sudden panic worthy event but it is still news, and important news at that to those watching the world markets.
The average citizen ins't a market. Chinese with incomes above a certain level are the market, and that market is still growing.
Apple needs more variants of the iPhone and iPad, for starters bigger versions. iPhone is so small, why not make a bigger version?? Just like we have more car variants, some prefer pickup trucks.., you know, Mr. Cook.
actually it is, Tim. The Chinese want cheaper phones
Ironically so do Americans it is why Apple are increasingly selling more old products like the 4 and 4S. They also don't want cheaper phones..they may want better value phones. The iphone is a cheap phone its why Apple charge a large mark-up.
Those talking about revenue are condemned to misunderstand profits.
Also China isn't just any market for reasons that should be obvious.
Finally this is part of a clear downward spiral for Apple. It may be elitist talk about expensive gadgets, but that is the topic of the thread, isn't it?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
There was a time when "Made in Japan" meant copycat designs and dodgy quality. There was a time when "Made in Korea" meant the same. It is a learning process. China, India, and one day Africa, are on track.
Make as good a product as they can, and let profit follow.
Ironically Samsung now make more profits while Apples continue to shrink. The bottom line is the product is not that good. the iPhone5 has a 1.3 GHz dual core, 1GB of Memory, an 8MP and 1.2MP Camera, 640 × 1,136 pixels at 326 ppi. That compares badly to even mid-range phones let alone manufacturers flagship product. They need a new strategy, not marketing lingo.
People deride copying as a dirty word.
Copying is how we humans learn, what you just said is what people used to say of Japanese industry in the 60s.
China has risen from a rural backwards society in the 70s to a society that can manufacture pretty much any high tech stuff you care to mention.
But if sprouting that quasi racist nonsense gives you some comfort all the power to you.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Honestly, I don't think so. Steve's passing seems to have caused a pretty large hiccup, but I would not start betting on their demise just yet.
Emmmm....let me try....I can only guess, but...because your business model has no absolutely chance of winning in China? :)
Ohhh, you afraid to said that loud. Ok, I will try again...BECAUSE YOUR BUSINESS MODEL HAS NO NO WAY TO WIN IN CHINA. How about that? :)
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
Chinese people do not want to be involved in direct confrontation. Samsung manufacture its products in Korea, while every bit of Apple technology (except Apple's logo) was given to Chinese companies. Now nearly evetything Apple is manaufacturing is made in China. Why should they pay so much for the stupid logo? They got the technology in chinese way "1 component at a time". In the past Chinese were destroying its enemies like bugs destroy trees (one leaf at a time) so one day the tree eaten by bugs will collapse without any warning. Now you wounder why North America and Europe is failing!
...ok not America :)...but that is the point. Apples market share is the lowest in years sitting at 13% http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24239313 To focus on a market(admittedly a massive market) they always did bad is ridiculous. Russia's three major mobile phone operators have halted iPhone sales recently.
Even if they offered a cheaper iPhone, they still wouldn't be able to install pirated software on it.
Seriously http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/ios-apps-hijack-twitter-accounts-post-false-confessions-of-piracy/ this is my favourite post of a Developer attacking its customer by hijacking Twitter accounts, and posting false “confessions” of piracy.
They simply do not want the iPhone, and piracy is not the reason. Although not being in control of your hardware will definitely have an effect in every market.
The irony is, Samsung phones aren't marketed as "special" as iPhones, and that's why the Samsung phones are winning.
To elaborate:
Any relatively affluent Chinese national who's had the privilege of making a trip to the states and is returning to the motherland will most likely have a top-of-the-line Samsonite suitcase full of Coach purses and brand new unlocked apple iPhone 5's (and maybe a couple of iPads), but how many Samsung products will they be bringing? Likely none.
The reason for this is that when quality is an issue, the Chinese have this adamant belief that anything created in China that is exported to be sold to Americans is, without question, of higher quality than the same item were it sold to Chinese consumers. This includes the same iPhone, made in the same factory, by the same people, the "better" one being shipped overseas.
That's why in the mainland, the spoiled middle-class children (starting at around middle school) with re-imported U.S. iPhones will actually look down on those who are using a "domestic" iPhone.
The fact that Samsung has been a major player in Chinese appliances still helps to set it apart from domestic (to China) brands such as Huawei in terms of overall quality, but because Samsung phones are marketed as largely being a different alternative to Apple phones (in terms of features, screen size, etc.), there's less of a need to re-import that je ne sais quoi from the U.S.
But Apple? Those phones are claiming to be the epitome of fit-and-finish, and that's just shooting themselves in the foot in this case.
Its not just the price - Samsung understands the Asian market and makes the product that the market wants, Apple simply doesn't.
I have a Chinese (LAVA-branded) Android tablet - it was a freebie from a vendor because I order so much from him (several years we were their largest account). He asked me for feedback on it after I had it for a few weeks. I felt bad but had not much good to say about it. It came with the Netflix preloaded (in their official firmware) and the Netflix app would not load movies. No update was available from Netflix at the time so I contacted lavatech. Their response was that they do not support it, that I should delete the app. WTF? Also, the manual clearly stated that the tablet charges via the mini-USB port. It doesn't. It only charges via the DC adapter port, and it uses a near impossible-to-find-size barrel connector.Lava Tech is uninterested in supporting their core products. Their response if something doesn't work according to their documentation, is to simply not use that feature, or they insist I'm doing it wrong (how can you plug in a mini-USB cable incorrectly?!).
I have a GS1000 dashcam (orange menu, a genuine GS1000 not a clone) - another cheap Chinese product. It has all the features I wanted but I ran into a bug. They quickly turned around and gave me a firmware update that fixed the problem I reported but introduced another problem. I emailed them again and they sent me another update (which I still have yet to test because I have been in the middle of moving to New Hampshire). Excellent customer service for a cheap product.
Support from Chinese companies ranges from completely sucktastic to fantastic. Unfortunately the former is far more common. I think the way Samsung and Apple actually stand behind their products, both will take the Chinese market by storm. I wouldn't buy a smartphone from a Chinese company because there is too much risk that the most basic features won't work (like, not being able to make phone calls) and the company will just say "don't use that feature then."
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Almost everyone I asked said that the iPhone screen was too small.
They also said⦠"Why is the iPhone so expensive when it has such a small screen?"
You can buy an Android phone with a gorgeous 5.7" display for half the cost of the iPhone in China. That was the biggest screen I found and it looked more vibrant than the screen on my iPhone 5.
If Apple wants to keep selling phones in China, they need bigger screens. Therefore, you can expect there will be a big screen iPhone. The Chinese market is too big for them to ignore. There's lots of competition now and Chinese consumers have zero brand loyalty.
I've lived in China for the past nine years, and while I'm no expert, I can maybe shed a little light on the actual situation here. While most affluent Chinese own iProducts, and in particular have a bias iPhones, that's not where the market is going. Apple products are more expensive, and Apple has always had supply chain issues in China; most people prefer to buy from a vendor who goes through Hong Kong since you avoid taxes that way. I think the bigger issue is being locked in to Apple's systems. Look at companies like xiaomi.com, they are basically trying to be an Apple clone. Android allows you do to that. This company started building custom roms, then started building phones, and now they have a huge loyal user base. While a lot of people still go for iProducts for the wow appeal, overall there are more fresh things going on on Android, and that's enough to attract customers.
It's not that everything made in China is cheap crap. They target the quality and price point that the customer orders.
The demand for conspicuous consumption among newly wealthy Chinese is even changing some of the retail market in Europe. Chinese tourists in Europe buy much more stuff than European and American tourists do, especially of the expensive stuff. So London high-street stores and French luxury-goods stores are retargeting their sales to aim more at Chinese. There are even luxury-shopping tours where you fly from China to Paris and get taken around to Louis Vuitton and the like, as a package deal (I guess you probably do also see the Eiffel Tower).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Looking at the slashdot comments it seems like nobody really knows why either... ;)
> What somewhat surprises me is that Samsung's phones would be holding out
> against the torrent of slightly-to-substantially cheaper indigenous handsets in China.
> Sure, the quality can be somewhere between 'uneven' and 'totally fucking dire';
Thanks to short-sighted MBAs who've off-shored manufacturing to Asia, "quality American products" are manufactured at the same factories, by the same workers, that manufacture "cheap foreign junk". Check out Foxconn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn on Google. Foxconn manufactures the iPad, iPhone, and iPod.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
The story is clearly about the competition between Apple and Samsung, and fact is that Samsung now makes more profit ($5B last in most recent quarter - that's earnings, not revenue) from smart phones than Apple does.
Apple has mostly saturated the US market and to save the stcok price from collapsing needs to find other markets for growth... China was one big hope, but it appears it's not happening. That's certainly news.
Here's a big hint for Tim: on iOS, you can't write a custom keyboard. On Android you can. This is a really big deal in Hong Kong, because iOS has no support for Cantonese-based Chinese input. The best you can do is a kludgy app where you have to copy and paste the result (see https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/canton-guang-dong-pin-yin/id385519764?mt=8).
Therefore, the Cantonese user is hamstrung by Apple's lack of support for the Cantonese-speaking market, together with their locked-down approach which prevents third party developers from filling the hole.
Compare this with the situation on Android, where there are at least five Cantonese-based keyboard input methods, together with Cantonese voice recognition. Why is it surprising if Hong Kongers find iOS seriously deficient?
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Apple managed to sell some stuff in China despite not having support for the languages and no effort in distribution. Meanwhile Samsung, and even Nokia in it's death throes, have made some effort at selling things in China, and guess what, they are doing better than Apple in that market. It's not hard to work out why.
because people have realised what you do and dont get buying apple and they have stopped buying. basicly they dont believe the hype, bull.... etc that apple rely on for sales. apple, last years tech at next years prices, the world has voted with its wallet and spent elsewhere, even in usa apple are failing, stock price down 50%, sales down as well, all as predicted. i wouldvnt put my money in samsung either, they have no better understanding of the markets than apple do a d the same situation we are discussing here will happen to samsung very soon. they also will crash back to what they should be, a non-dominant phone maker, possibly even quicker than apple, no-one thinks samsung devices "cool".
Some people like smaller phones, some like larger ones. I understand that too much choice can get confusing to people, but most people want SOME choice. Apple has had a "You will do this our way," idea for a long time. Now that works when what you have is what people want, but not so much if people decide they want something else.
Also in terms of China, Apple is at a disadvantage compared to America because it doesn't have the status symbol thing going on there. In the US it is very fashionable to have and be seen with an Apple product (though it is waining here). It started with the iPod and has continued for quite some time. It was a status symbol to have an iPod, iPhone, etc. Not so in China. It just doesn't have that same status. So people evaluate it more on its features (and cost) and how much they like those.
Apple may have to accept that having "an" iPhone isn't going to cut it as much, they may need to have a couple options for people to choose from.
Help! The sky is falling! A companies revenue in one country now only dwarves 62 countries!
Bizzare. Why link to a dodgy souce like that (that gives out-of-date figures) rather than linking to a dodgy source like this that has up-to-date figures?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I think, although they don't say, the conservapedia values must be PPP, not nominal, so the wikipedia version is here.
Also coservapedia seems just to have gone down. Maybe they don't work Sundays?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Android is far better suited to the chinese market. Because piracy is far simpler on it....
Chinese hate walled gardens (oh the irony!)
And, lest anyone forget, there was a time when "made in USA" meant copycat designs and dodgy quality.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I believe the iPhone size is pretty good. In fact, a cell phone with a screen bigger than 4,3 feels oversized in my opinion.
In my experience iphones sold extremely well where they had the iPod bonus (that is, a non-negligible fraction of the population being on itunes).
In china Apple never managed tyo catch the same stronghold.
May also have to do with Apple fucking up on simple things in non-trivial (i.e. chinese) 2.5g network situations (when i traveled to China with my wife, her iphone3gs choked up on the chinese variant of GSM extension in a way that calls were impossible (neither my Nokia phones nor my galazy tab had that problem).
Or with the fucking provider-binding where apple plays police.
1. Investors are obsessed with growth. Obviously China is the biggest growth market there is. If you hadn't noticed, Apple's stock has gone from its all time high of $700 a mere 10 months ago to its current price of $440.
2. Every report that comes out saying Android has gained more market share makes it appear as though Apple is losing the war for the hearts and minds of mobile phone users -- and people tend to have an aversion to joining the "losing" team. The fact that Apple has massive profits, as you pointed out, is not exactly a selling point to consumers.
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll still be able to buy Apple hardware for years to come, but it's increasingly looking like the case in 5-10 years will be that iPhones have a 10% market share a la Windows vs. Mac, but this time around, instead of Apple being the product of choice for hip artsy types because "it's better for music and graphic design", it will be the product of choice for old fartsy types (like my parents) because "I don't want to learn something new".
www.gaiageek.com
When Apple first became available in China, the "status" drove sales. But, that market was quickly saturated. The Chinese market typically demands several things of a smartphone: microSD support and swappable batteries. Phones without those abilities are simply not as well received. Some manufacturers make special products just for the Chinese market, like HTC does with their One model. In the US and Europe, the HTC One is completely sealed, no access to battery, no microSD slot. But in China, the HTC One has at least the microSD because that market demands it. In China, they put a lot of video onto microSD to play on their devices, whether phone or tablet. The Apple system requires those videos to be converted on a host computer before they will play on the device. Android typically does not require any conversion, it plays many more formats than Apple. The microSD can be loaded up with movies and tv shows to watch on the commutes to/from work and school. Apple doesn't seem to understand the Chinese market. They had the initial status-driven people, but those don't offer continued sales/growth.
Investors aren't lure by how much you make, it's by how much you GROW
Good thing we listen to the mindset, culture and in many cases even the same people that brought us the financial crisis that has been devastating the west for years now.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Want to know why Chinese people are buying Android phones instead of iPhones? Ask them. Have people around here never heard of a poll?
Yes, but it's a long, slow path.
The last words of Steve Jobs may have well been "good luck, Tim . I'm outta here". I wouldn't want to go up against Samsung. When it comes to maintaining brand-image, they're not as clueless as Microsoft. I wouldn't count Apple out either, but it's going to be tough.
the iPhone size is awful. Can't read books on it easily. My S3 and S4 perform that function beautifully. Scrolling through pages with the thumb is a lot nicer than having to hold a tablet and mimic an actual book.
I had a iPhone 4 which was decent, and thought that it did everything I would ever want. Then I updated the iOS and switched providers, at which point I could not unlock it so I had to get a new device, and chose the S4 over the iPhone 5 which has an outdated OS interface, charges an arm and a leg for memory upgrade (64 GB is not worth 300$ EVER), has no SD card slot, doesn't allow for the battery to be flipped so that I don't have to worry about running out of battery and no charger available nearby, has only "family friendly" apps, has an outdated camera, a narrow awkward screen, doesn't allow me to copy files over the network, text input on the keyboard has to be done by continuously clicking, requires iTunes, and I can't play videos on it unless I get them from apple or use some bloated annoying software on my PC to convert for it.
I don't read books on it (I do that on my 24" iMac) or buy a real book. For what I do (some Mail, reading slashot and a couple of other sites, WeatherPro, some other apps and a couple of games - and phoning people, receiving calls) the size of the screen on my iPhone 4S is big enough. I don't want to lug around anything bigger.
If I wanted to, I'd have bought an iPad Mini long ago.
I also don't need a stylus (I don't need or want to run rdesktop on my phone, like the co-worker with the SG Note 2 does).
Given Apple's latest quarterly numbers, there seem to be at least a couple of other people who think likewise.
There is a market for "phat" phones - but I doubt it's much larger than the vocal audience that continues to push these phones.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Exactly.... Its the "importers" who are pricing the work out to Chinese manufacturers based on lowest cost. I'm not aware of any chinese manufacture who sells directly to the end customers in NA (I'm sure they would like to as that is where the margins are).
The people selling expensive (4 and 5-figure expensive) watches and jewelery to Chinese tourists here are making an absolute fortune these days.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
The problem is growth on growth.
Investors do not just expect to get a return on their investment, they expect that this return continuously increases. The reverse is true of the shadow of growth - the news in my country barely ever report how much debt the government is taking again, the number everyone focusses on is not only new debt, but whether or not that increases or decreases ("yeay! the government has reduced the additional debt this year!" - translation: We are not paying back our debt. We are increasing our debt. We are just increasing it a little less then last year.)
Same with investment, just a bit less obvious. If I invest $100 in your company today, and I get $10 in dividends a year, I break even after 10 years and after that, my profit grows every year. So this whining isn't about decreasing profits, but about a decrease in the increase of profit. The company is still making money and so are its investors. It's just less then before.
The stock market, of course, is a 2nd and 3rd (options) derivative game, so growth of growth is considered vital because that's how the system works. That doesn't mean it has any meaning outside of it.
The culture I referred to was that we've allowed the casino to dominate the real economy.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Not sure why this was modded insightful. It's pure opinion, and the proliferation of 5" smartphones suggests yours is not universally shared. Opinion is not insight. Interesting, perhaps.
For what it's worth I find 5" to be ideal - I can reach all areas with one hand and type comfortably, with a nice large display to show detail on maps and a less cramped keyboard. 4.3" seems cramped.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Actually Samsung doesn't. You are quoting a widely disseminated piece that itself quoted incorrect statistics and had a misleading title. The original was corrected but the media tends to only propagate the more sensationalist titles and articles.
Part of the problem in today's world is being able to distinguish truth from fiction. Even when using valid data, it is always possible to quote a particular statistic out of context to make it appear that the data supports a story when, in fact, it doesn't.
In this particular situation the roles are actually reversed. Samsung has become more defensive, willing to chop margins to try to gain footholds in markets, and Apple pretty much beats the shit out of all of its competitors when it comes to margins and real profit.
-Matt
How many years did Japan make crap before going upmarket? China is clearly lagging.
Africa on track? To what? Seriously.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
As electronics get smaller it is now possible to build the power of a computer in the form factor of a phone and there is a market for it.
Of course it remains to be seen if Canonical will get to it's US$32 million in 21 days from now...
I can easily predict this is only the first of such offerings, I sincerely hope it will be a Linux device that is successful and not an MS-Nokia.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
And I think a lot of you are confused by that. Samsung is just selling hardware. Apple is selling hardware AND creating an ongoing income stream from its ecosystem. Apple focuses on and accomplishes far higher customer retention numbers to sustain a longer purchasing cycle by consumers as the market matures. And it shows in the margins and the premium that Apple is STILL able to command for its products (despite what the emotionally-driven people on slashdot think).
From a business perspective, Apple is beating the holy crap out of its rivals and as the market matures pure hardware makers such as Samsung are being forced into more defensive positions. It's obvious just looking at the relative margin numbers.
Statistics can be very misleading, particularly the idiotic 'global market share' statistics the media seems to love to quote. The simple fact of the matter is that Apple is not diving head-first into lower economic zones. It's dipping its feet in from the higher zones but from Apple's perspective there's just no point trying to run after customers who don't won't provide any meaningful ongoing income to either Apple or Apple Developers. This also supports Apple's premium pricing model because, to be frank, the consumers of its products tend to be the same consumers who spend significant amounts of money just on telco. In the U.S. and other economically mature zones, Apple's premium is barely 1 month's phone bill. Not enough of a reason for those people to switch to a cheaper device.
China is certainly different in this regard, but Apple's business model is still generating enormous revenue and profits so to say that they are somehow 'losing' in China is losing sight of the bigger picture. Apple will tune its model but they will always sell at a premium to other devices. There's no reason for them not to.
-Matt
Its funny as the US now has some of the most strict IP laws in the world. Not that long ago they were known for ruthless infringement.
And they fit so snugly within the over sized pockets of my new iPants!
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
You don't get a +5 mod, because you disagree with Apple, therefore, you're wrong.
</sarcasm>
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
I would not start betting on their demise just yet.
But I would bet on their continuing descent into irrelevance. Apple is already something your mom is more likely to own than you.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
The biggest problem for Apple in China is that even though the hardware is potentially capable of supporting it now, the iPhone 4S and 5 does NOT support the unique TD-SCDMA digital cellular network used by China Mobile for its 750 million customers.
Hopefully, when the new iPhone models (5S and the new 5C lower cost model) arrive this fall, it will enable TD-SCDMA support, and that will allow China Mobile to officially support the iPhone so China Mobile customers can buy them at the Apple Store or China Mobile authorized retailers.
1. Investors are obsessed with growth. Obviously China is the biggest growth market there is. If you hadn't noticed, Apple's stock has gone from its all time high of $700 a mere 10 months ago to its current price of $440.
Right, because it was the victim of a pump-and-dump scheme by some influential pundits. There is absolutely nothing about Apple's actual actions or prospects that drove the massive fluctuations in its stock.
2. Every report that comes out saying Android has gained more market share makes it appear as though Apple is losing the war for the hearts and minds of mobile phone users -- and people tend to have an aversion to joining the "losing" team. The fact that Apple has massive profits, as you pointed out, is not exactly a selling point to consumers.
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll still be able to buy Apple hardware for years to come, but it's increasingly looking like the case in 5-10 years will be that iPhones have a 10% market share a la Windows vs. Mac, but this time around, instead of Apple being the product of choice for hip artsy types because "it's better for music and graphic design", it will be the product of choice for old fartsy types (like my parents) because "I don't want to learn something new".
Except that there's no evidence that that's the direction things are headed in. Samsung isn't gaining marketshare at Apple's expense—it's gaining marketshare at the expense of all the other players in the market, and by expanding the market to new customers on the low end.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
Except that there's no evidence that that's the direction things are headed in. Samsung isn't gaining market share at Apple's expense—it's gaining market share at the expense of all the other players in the market, and by expanding the market to new customers on the low end.
Dan Aris
I think you just contradicted yourself. Yes, Android is gaining global market share, largely due to it's dominance in countries like China -- that was my point, and it seems you agree. If this plays out as it has been (Android gaining a few percentage points of market share each quarter), and looking at the global picture (i.e. the billions in the developing world who will upgrade from their dumbphone to a cheap Android smartphone) things are definitely moving in the direction of iPhones having only 10% of the global smartphone market share. For evidence, according to Gartner, the iPhone had 9% market share of all mobile phone (smart and dumb phone) sales in the first quarter of 2013. Of global smartphone market it share, it dropped from 22.5% to 18.2% in the course of a year (Q1 2012 to Q2 2013), and in that same time, Android increased from 56.9% to 74.4% smartphone market share.
The point, in case it wasn't clear, is that in 5-10 years, Apple will have 10% of the smartphone market share (and in 5-10 years, all phones will be smartphones). Looking at the numbers above, it looks more like they'll be lucky to have even that in 5 years.
www.gaiageek.com
Neither the iPad Mini nor the iPad fully function as a mobile phone. You haven't offered an alternative, you've completely ignored a key factor and still not accounted for calligraphy.
The iPhone 5 has a 4" screen, but with weird dimensions of 640x1136. That's pretty narrow, though I'll readily admit I used to read on my iPod Touch with a very small font. Still, I find it an odd design move.
.35" bigger than my Nexus.
I currently have the Google Galaxy Nexus at 4.65" with the movie friendly 720x1280 that's wider in portrait mode, the way most people would read on a mobile phone. It's not an unwieldy pocket-choking phone, especially when not in a third party protective case.
The S4 at 5" with a true-to-pixel HD 1080x1920 comes next in size. Having played with one, I find it still doesn't feel to unwieldy at only
Finally for that next step up - and note it is a fully functional mobile phone and not a tablet with Skype to make it a "phone" - is the Samsung Note II. This time with a resistive screen that is better suited for use with a stylus - which comes with it's own spring-loaded dock within the casing of the phone. Now, that does feel big. Kinda like those big wide men's wallets that are meant for big trenchcoat pockets or a briefcase. Also dangerously close to that Nokia N-Gage "side-talking" feeling when used as a phone. No argument there, it's on the big side. But you know what? Those bluetooth earpieces are all over Singapore and I imagine China and Taiwan are no different.
Those are the same people that think that the iPad is too big to make phone calls...
Neither the iPad Mini nor the iPad fully function as a mobile phone.
They don't have to. The iPhone is for that.
There is no one mobile device, from any manufacturer, with any OS, that is ideal for all uses. They are all compromises. You pick the device for the particular set of compromises you want. Or you buy (and carry) more than one.