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Majority of Enterprise Customers Finally 'Migrating Away From Windows XP'

New submitter TinTops writes "Speaking in a keynote at Intel's Developer Forum, Microsoft's vice president of marketing, Tami Reller, said the firm has 'now seen about three quarters of Windows enterprises moving to modern desktops' from Windows XP, with the last leg of Windows XP migrations being spurred by the imminent availability of Windows 8.1. However, Reller did not offer a breakdown of the enterprise uptake of Windows 8 compared to Windows 7, both of which are counted by Microsoft as modern desktops."

246 comments

  1. Migration by puddingebola · · Score: 3, Funny

    Maybe they are migrating to Canada. I hear that it is a nice country.

    1. Re:Migration by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe they are migrating to Canada. I hear that it is a nice country.

      Well, two from the Enterprise came to the US from Canada (Kirk & Scotty) The Ambassador Bridge goes two ways, eh!

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      scotty iz scotch not canadan

    3. Re:Migration by JustOK · · Score: 1

      ur thinking of welshy.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    4. Re:Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      scotty iz scotch not canadan

      Pretty sure he is talking about the actors. Because character-wise, Kirk is from Iowa. But both, Shatner and Doohan, are in fact Canadian. Actually, Doohan is so good at faking an Aberdeen-accent that most Scots wouldn't notice he was a foreigner.

    5. Re:Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they are migrating to Canada. I hear that it is a nice country.

      No, no, you have it all wrong. American companies only migrate their money offshore...you know, when they want to avoid paying taxes.

      Or, you just become the governments biggest tool (both figuratively and literally) and get a free pass on paying taxes at all. Troll them again Zuck...it's obviously worth it.

    6. Re:Migration by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Kirk is from Iowa!

    7. Re:Migration by noh8rz10 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I migrated from XP 8 years ago... TO OSX!!!!!

    8. Re: Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was

    9. Re:Migration by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      I did the same, only a few months after they released iTunes for Windows. Yes it's not the fastest or most efficient program on Windows but after letting the computer manage the files and using metadata to make smart playlists, it finally convinced me it was time to switch.

    10. Re:Migration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No way in any shape or form is Doohan doing an Aberdeen accent.
      Most scots have some problems with aberdonian accents.
      Doohan doesn't sound in any way scottish, even if he was supposed to come from Linlithow.
      central Scotland. A long way from Aberdeen.
              RJG.

    11. Re:Migration by Q-Hack! · · Score: 2

      Is it bad that I am still using MS BOB?

      On a different note: Does anybody know why Slashdot doesn't render correctly anymore?

      --
      Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    12. Re:Migration by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      In my case I'm still using XP SP3+patches. However when I buy a new machine I intend to put either Debian or Ubuntu on it.

      Then I'll make an image of my current XP laptop, install VirtualBox on the Linux laptop, and install the image of my XP machine on there. Problem solved, apps I need will still run and the beauty of Linux running the whole show.

    13. Re:Migration by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      I recently installed XP x64 SP2 on a new machine for compatibility testing. But the update process is embarrasing compared to Debian. I wonder how it can take so much time to apply each update.

    14. Re:Migration by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      The update system is horribly broken on XP. It's hard to get the machine to search for new updates and you have to fiddle with the stupid Windows Update web page. I'm glad that they reworked the system in Windows 6.x.

    15. Re:Migration by thsths · · Score: 1

      Yes, the update system is different on Windows 6, but it is still broken. I often get conflicting messages from the Update program and the Update notifier.

    16. Re:Migration by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      No way in any shape or form is Doohan doing an Aberdeen accent.
      Most scots have some problems with aberdonian accents.
      Doohan doesn't sound in any way scottish, even if he was supposed to come from Linlithow.
      central Scotland. A long way from Aberdeen.

              RJG.

      And how many 23d-Century Aberdonians do you know? That's like expecting 20th-Century naval engineers to sound like someone out of Shakespeare!

    17. Re:Migration by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      I just turned on automatic updates. Much easier that way.

    18. Re:Migration by kilodelta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Indeed - I've watched with amusement how Microsoft completely blew it regarding OS upgrades. From XP to Vista to 7 to 8. Vista was vomit inducing, 7 better but still the regroup of system options and control panels really made no sense. And 8 is a flaming piece of shit no matter how you dice it.

      There was a time I was probably what you'd call a Windows lapdog. Now I'd much prefer Unix/Linux. Try doing pattern matching on your windows box it's weak at best. And the file system on Windows, egad! I also recall a few years back how the Win FS was supposed to solve the issues with NTFS etc. But Microsoft could never get it to work.

    19. Re:Migration by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Yes, the update system is different on Windows 6, but it is still broken. I often get conflicting messages from the Update program and the Update notifier.

      Yes, there are some problems. Recently I played with a vanilla installation of Windows 8, and clicked the "Check for updates" button for the first time. It stuck showing only "0KB, 0% complete", but at the same time some kind of background worker was happily downloading updates.

    20. Re:Migration by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't either have a problem with automatic updates but sometimes they trigger a reboot behind your back which is annoying. I want to be in full control with reboots. For little things like Flash Player, auto-update suits great.

    21. Re:Migration by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      you're totally right. I'm one of those guys who leaves 12+ documents open at once - word docs, spreadsheets, emails. it's like a mind map of my mind. blows when my comp reboots overnight

      related, remember compUSA? god that place blew. Also microcenter? I was always shocked to see one by the mercado. lastly frys, I can't believe that place is still in business. some of my worst retail experiences were at frys.

  2. How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by rumpledoll · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I suspect well north of 90%. Anyone know a real number for this?

    1. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by RatBastard · · Score: 4, Informative

      My office is slowly migrating to 7. We have no plans to go with Windows 8 on the desktop.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    2. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by msobkow · · Score: 4, Funny

      A real number? On Slashdot?

      Let me guess: You actually read the article, too.

      But I've not run into a single Windows 8 desktop at any business site I've ever worked for or visited, so I suspect your number is lowballing it.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      I've seen a few, mostly in the testing sense, or for anyone who makes consumer software as a business, and they need to know how to work with 8.

      But ya, I'm scrambling to get a bunch of windows 7 PC's in the next week or two for a LOT of small business customers in case 8.1 makes windows 7 unavailable. Unfortunately windows 8.1 is not actually a meaningful improvement on windows 8.

    4. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by fishnuts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As an IT manager who oversees deployment and maintenance of about 60 desktops and laptops, some of which are shared among multiple employees, consistency in OS availability for the end user is key. We upgrade one or two machines per month, and we started using Windows 7 three years ago, so about 15 systems still run XP. We're not touching 8.1 until there are no more XP systems on our network, AND people show interest in actually using 8.1, AND at least one service pack has been released to address outstanding issues since its public release, AND we discover a way to disable the "Tiles" start screen. Supporting systems with two different desktop interfaces is a serious pain in the ass, especially for non-technical users. So far, only two people have shown interest in using Windows 8 (techie geek types), and the vast majority of our employees are averse to changing their OS at all.

      I've had to customize Windows 7 a bit to make it "comfortable" for the lowest common denominator: Long-time XP/2000 users.

    5. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, we're pretty much a Microsoft shop and have been on a fairly aggressive upgrade schedule as long as I can remember. We've been on 7 for years, and they were actually very enthusiastic about adopting Vista back in the day. We've already verified Windows 8 hardware and software compatibility, have Win8 images ready to deploy on a moment's notice, and actual deployment is simply not even talked about here. In fact, the absence of any plausible desktop upgrade path seems to be jump-starting our exploration of BYOD and making our business processes usable via iPads and iPhones.

      If things keep going like this for another decade, we won't be a recognizably Microsoft shop anymore (the server infrastructure will likely stick around longer).

    6. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      I suspect well north of 90%. Anyone know a real number for this?

      As the age of XP approaches infinity the percentage ever decreases, usually through attrition of old hardware replaced with new. That's simply going to happen no matter how closely bound some users are to their old XP machines. But as we are now well along with VMs and such, there's no real reason anyone who isn't absolutely determined can't continue to run it in an emulator or VM instance. The limiting factor, however, will be inability to run software, such as browsers, which become more resource hungry with time.

      I recall, well into the age of XP there were still large numbers of people still dinking around with Windows 98, determined not to give up until they could not longer start their machines (often the sort of people who thought $2,000 spent on a computer was an investment and it should run for decades.)

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    7. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Informative

      My office is slowly migrating to 7. We have no plans to go with Windows 8 on the desktop.

      For home I took one look at 8 and promptly bought 7.

      Our office is not in the habit of supporting 8, so we are actively discouraging adoption of it.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    8. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      A real number? On Slashdot?

      Let me guess: You actually read the article, too.

      But I've not run into a single Windows 8 desktop at any business site I've ever worked for or visited, so I suspect your number is lowballing it.

      We buy Windows 8 machines, then image Windows 7 over top.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    9. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by dnaumov · · Score: 1

      As an IT manager who oversees deployment and maintenance of about 60 desktops and laptops, some of which are shared among multiple employees, consistency in OS availability for the end user is key. We upgrade one or two machines per month, and we started using Windows 7 three years ago, so about 15 systems still run XP. We're not touching 8.1 until there are no more XP systems on our network, AND people show interest in actually using 8.1, AND at least one service pack has been released to address outstanding issues since its public release, AND we discover a way to disable the "Tiles" start screen.

      You will be waiting a very long time then, considering 8.1 is essentially the service pack for 8. The concept of a "service pack" is dead, Microsoft has long planned moving to rolling releases a la MacOS X.

    10. Re: How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have exactly one... sitting in the cube of one of our qa people.

    11. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by msobkow · · Score: 4, Funny

      *rolls eyes* Why, yes, Office is an Operating System.

      Just like Emacs is. :P

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    12. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by vux984 · · Score: 0

      I'm starting to see it. Defininitely not common yet, and mostly in small businesses or new businesses (e.g 1-2 servers and 20 computers, with 5-20 employees) but its out there.

      I think I see 8 more than I saw Vista the same timeframe after launch... no hard data, just gut, So take it for the practically nothing that is worth. :)

    13. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by vux984 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      AND at least one service pack has been released to address outstanding issues since its public release,

      Wouldn't you consider 8.1 as a service pack to 8.0 ?

      AND we discover a way to disable the "Tiles" start screen

      The 3rd party add-ons do that well enough today. If you haven't "discovered" them yet, you haven't been looking. But honestly, by the time your company is likely to move to consider moving past 7, maybe you'll want to reconsider that.

      2-3 years from now, I figure the new start screen will have largely been adopted as mainstream (at least if Microsoft doesn't abandon it in favor of a whole new UI next year...) and by then using it at work might be acceptable for the vast majority of employees, with minimal training.

      Sure you'll have a few luddites who still get angry if the desktop doesn't look like what they used in 1998 but they can either adapt or be replaced.

      Not that I'm suggesting rolling out the start screen now... I'm just saying make that decision a few years out. When XP launched everybody in business always set the classic theme to make it look more like Windows 2000. by 2005 that practice was long dead... people all had XP at home, and had acclimatized to the new start menu.

      I think we'll see that repeat again with the start screen, although it may take a bit longer. since its a lot more different and computers last longer now.

      And again... it all depends on what microsoft does... sitcks with it and further improves it... or if they throw it under the bus with Zune and Silverlight... :)

    14. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      so, a service pack for a 3 year old piece of software is evidence that windows will continue to follow the service pack model? Win 8.1 is the service pack to Win 8

    15. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Vanderhoth · · Score: 1

      We're migrating to windows 7 in my office as well. Win8 is being highly discouraged.

    16. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      I finally get upgraded at work to Windows 7 next Friday! Along with IE 8! Joy! I'm not kidding

    17. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by tftp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The 3rd party add-ons do that well enough today. If you haven't "discovered" them yet, you haven't been looking.

      Those 3rd party add-ons are not a good option for a business. Microsoft can break the functionality at any time - and they did it once already, with 8.1.

      If they do it again, what will you do when on some fine Wednesday 100 workers come to their computers, wiggle the mouse, and they see ... what will they see? They never saw it before. Would be probably a thousand tiles. They will call the IT. The telephones at IT melt down, and the IT director commits seppuku with a dull byte. There is no option to "wait a couple weeks until the Start8 people figure out what is broken *this time*." The option to roll back the updates is also not very easy (if you need it, you aren't set up for approved deployment of patches.)

      2-3 years from now, I figure the new start screen will have largely been adopted as mainstream

      It won't be because it is not an improvement, it's a regress to Windows 3.0. Full-screen, single window Program Manager.

    18. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Disabling Aero and instant search, aero peak, aero snap, gets rid of the reason to switch and reconfirms to those who hate change that XP is a supperior OS and ruins the credibility of your IT department as all change is for the sake of change.

      I always let my users know the new capabilities and then they nod their head s and some even look forward to change aas they now see a plus side. You need to sell yourself

    19. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      B.S.

      Just yesterday Office 2010 SP2 got installed on my PC.

      Office 2014, and VS 2014 are almost done.

    20. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I recall, well into the age of XP there were still large numbers of people still dinking around with Windows 98..."

      Heh. When Vista came out I remember working on mission-critical equipment that was hooked up to a data collection PC running Windows 3.11, and upgrading was not possible. Windows XP will still be here 10 years from now.

    21. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      old hardware replaced with new

      I installed XP on new hardware last year. Some legacy software won't run on win7 and in some cases a VM is not a good option (eg. evil parallel port dongles - even USB dongle behaviour is flaky). As plotter drivers etc get updated there is less need for it but it's a very slow change.

    22. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Luddite" means someone opposed to progress because of lost jobs.

      People opposing the new tiles menu oppose regressions that impede work.

    23. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must really suck at IT if it takes you a whole month to upgrade two machines. No wonder you can't figure out Windows 8.

    24. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by BUL2294 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong... Windows 3.0 Program Manager supported multiple, overlapping windows. Win8 is a regression to Windows 1.0x, which did not support overlapping windows--only maximized & tiled. We didn't go back to 1990-era capabilities (3.0), but back to 1985-era capabilities. Is there a hack that will allow me to run the tiles in 4-color CGA mode???

      Where Win8's crappy Metro tile desktop program loading thingy falls apart is when you have multiple shortcuts that have the same name. How does that happen? Simple: "Uninstall". Not "Uninstall (program"), but "Uninstall". With the Start Menu, "Uninstall" is under the folder of the program (or even in the Win3.x Program Manager Group). No such info on Win8's StartClusterfuck...

      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    25. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Those 3rd party add-ons are not a good option for a business. Microsoft can break the functionality at any time - and they did it once already, with 8.1.

      True of all 3rd party software. All the time.

      Or can you really not think of a single microsoft patch or service pack that broke some line-of-business application, that needed a vendor supplied fix? Because its a pretty regular occurence.

      It won't be because it is not an improvement, it's a regress to Windows 3.0. Full-screen, single window Program Manager.

      No, its becoming a tiling window manager, something several linux users run on their own systems by choice and swear by it. So I'm actually quite interested to see how that whole experiment pans out.

      But we're not talking about the 'metro apps'. We're talking about the start screen. I run win 8.1 on one of my laptops -- and honestly the start screen doesn't bug me, because I really rarely see it. Ive organized my desktop so that i don't have to, so the fact that it exists really isn't an issue.

      I still want a good official desktop search widget that replicates that one aspect of the win7 start menu. And I think most of microsofts defaults for the start screen are stupid on a desktop... but that's all stuff that easily fixable with group policy.

    26. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by tftp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True of all 3rd party software. All the time.

      Breakage of a random application that dared to use a deprecated API call that suddenly suffered a regression (and wasn't tested, since it's deprecated) does occur. But it's unintentional, and MS may eventually fix the problem. They have no particular reason to protect a problem.

      However Metro was a problem that was intentionally created and maintained and protected. Working around that problem is "unwelcome." I don't know how open is the API that the software is using, but as I suspect it is neither very open nor very much designed for 3rd parties. If it's undocumented, here be dragons.

      In essence, software like Start8 is actively fighting Microsoft. And Microsoft fights back. What business would want to stand on that battlefield and risk being obliterated by one side or the other?

      No, its becoming a tiling window manager, something several linux users run on their own systems by choice and swear by it.

      Tiling window managers fit the workflow of precious few users. I don't use it myself (actively hate!) and I don't know anyone who would use one or want one. Many years ago I knew one geek; he was only using console I/O and vi. Perhaps it would work for him. But it's sheer insanity to throw a highly specialized piece of software at unsuspecting people who - for their whole life of computing - have never even seen a tiling WM. The nature of "general computing" suggests that we run different applications, and they have different needs. Tiling WM is OK if you and your software are very logical and very systematic. Most people are nothing of the sort. They just drag their windows around until they get what they want. They do not "program" their WM, they wing it.

      And I think most of microsofts defaults for the start screen are stupid on a desktop... but that's all stuff that easily fixable with group policy.

      Indeed, plenty of SO/HO users are ready to whip up a few GPOs and deploy them through their AD. That's what those poor souls live for - to fix Windows. Not to repair cars, and not to sell products, and not to bake pizza - but to code GPOs. Sure, this is not a problem at a large company. But it is a huge problem at a smaller company. Now you have to buy a new computer and call the support contractor right away because the computer is not usable "out of the box."

    27. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows XP will still be here 10 years from now.

      Hopefully not on a network, or at least not on an internet-connected segment.

    28. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Breakage of a random application

      Is called patch Tuesday? :)

      Meanwhile Click-to-run Outlook (which short of a VLA is the only way to get outlook) won't run Outlook Add ons without some serious arm twisting -- breaking a great many apps... from Google apps sync to CRM stuff.

      In essence, software like Start8 is actively fighting Microsoft.

      Microsoft has never been particularly safe for heavy shell modifications.

      If I were looking to deploy win8, and I wanted a start menu clone, I'd pick one that was merely a taskbar widget/app (and therefor just ran as a reglar app) that ran with windows 8 rather than try to go start8's whole hog pitched battle vs Microsoft. Honestly, I don't WANT windows 7 retrofit into windows 8. I think the start screen has its place -- like OSXs launchpad. So I'm happy to have it around. But I want windows 7 desktop search, too. I'd prefer an official widget from MS... but a 3rd party one for that is no more at risk of breaking than any other software I run.

      They just drag their windows around until they get what they want.

      Gee I wonder why someone thought that maybe it could be improved on. Personally I too like my free form layered multiple windows... but i acknowledge i spend a fair bit of time dragging them around, and worse after finding the right window looking for the right tab in the window. I also acknowledge that such a scheme is worse on a laptop with limited screen space, and abysmal on a touch enabled device.

      Maybe a new paradigm would be better.
      I'm going to be open minded enough to at least give it a fair shake.

      Indeed, plenty of SO/HO users are ready to whip up a few GPOs and deploy them through their AD.

      Changing the defaults to something sensible is tedious but not difficult. SOHO users just have to do it once.

      Now you have to buy a new computer and call the support contractor right away because the computer is not usable "out of the box."

      Cleaning up the start screen and creating a couple good quicklaunch taskbar menus is hardly a huge problem.

    29. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Notice how the lies continue to this day about Vista and now Windows 8. Balmer basically spending M$'s money to make himself not quite look like the Uncle Fester of software that he is. No mention that the substantive XP upgrade represents a jump over Vista and to windows 7, just to get it in before they are forced to use windows 8 by windows 7 being made unavailable. Now add to this no mention of servers, just talk about desktops. I wonder how many XP equivalent servers are becoming Linux servers and all talk of that is being silenced in mass media by M$ marketing dollars.

      How many people are going to wait for windows 9 or will they simply label that one Windows Uncle Fester Free.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    30. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      I see both sides to this.

      I laugh at XP holdouts when I ask them what is just soo horrible about Windows 7. They talk about settings. Never about the platform and how they are familiar with the old explorer, fonts, colors, things were in the right spot etc. They never heard of Aero peak, Aero snap, instant search, or any of the improvements in the past 5 years.

      Most slashdotters still do not know you can hit the windows key and type whatever you want. I never use the start button anymore after Vista.

      But, Windows 8 really does have very servere problems. There are no stacking apps in a task bar, no more than 1 tile on the screen, inferior search to Windows 7, and here is a normal user who has written 30 days of MacOSX, Linux, and Vista, now trying his best at Windows 8.

      Notice how no pictures even show in the pictures app? No clear way to go back to the start screen, the touchpad does weird things and pretends it is a cell phone screen, it is thrown together with no design so customers can buy Windows phones.

    31. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we're (BIG Corp) finally on Win 7... ONLY because of the announced end of support for Win XP. Without that, we would stay on Win XP as long as we could (as we already have)...

    32. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Vista RULZ ftw!

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    33. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by sharklasers · · Score: 2

      It won't be because it is not an improvement, it's a regress to Windows 3.0. Full-screen, single window Program Manager.

      People will adapt. Nothing stays forever in technology. It doesn't matter if it's an improvement or not - it's important to be able to change your workflow when necessary, otherwise you hang onto outdated methodologies.

      Being able to adapt to change is the most important thing in this industry. Standing still is not maintainable.

    34. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure you'll have a few luddites who still get angry if the desktop doesn't look like what they used in 1998 but they can either adapt or be replaced.

      Why would you deliberately make employees miserable or fire them? Couldn't you give them software that is slightly less terrible to work with?

      Fortunately, I don't have to use Windows at all, but geez. You're making it sound like Windows 8 is a viable choice for, well, anything.

    35. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Anonymous Coward strikes again!

    36. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 7 is good if you compare it to Windows 8. But people forget to compare it to other alternatives. I use Linux at home for gaming and normal surfing. At work there is contious development to use Linux also, but it takes a little work.

    37. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by AlecC · · Score: 1

      2-3 years from now, I figure the new start screen will have largely been adopted as mainstream (at least if Microsoft doesn't abandon it in favor of a whole new UI next year...) and by then using it at work might be acceptable for the vast majority of employees, with minimal training.

      I disagree. The tiles screen is right for tablets, not for keyboard-and-mouse desktops. Even touchscreen vertical monitors are not comfortable for extensive use. Win 8 is an attempt to provide a single OS for both tablet and keyboard users. I see that as a big mistake: you end up with something that please neither.

      The competition have distinct UIs for tablet and desktop: iOS and OSX from Apple, Android and ChromeOS from Google. Note that this is not about the underlying OS, which may well be some flavour of Linux in many cases, but needn't be. This is about UI: the bit of the system the user sees. I use desktop OSes - Windows, Ubuntu, CentOS - and tablet/phone OSes - iOS, Android. I am happy to switch between them: horses for courses. But, from limited experience, I loathe Win8 because it is neither one thing nor the other. On the same hardware in the same environment, I have two completely different operating modes.

      I have been struck how we are cued into different behaviours by different environments. Many years ago, to answer a question about an obsolete system, I had to fire up a development system, OS and editor I hadn't used for years. I was surprised to find that, on seeing its distinctive terminal and displays (VT-52 running RT-11 using TECO, for nostalgia freaks), I instantly retrieved OS commands and editor hot keys for that particular system. I think we have no difficulty in running diverse systems, provided they are in diverse environments and the devices give us cues accordingly. With a tablet in my hand, I poke, slide and pinch. With a mouse in my hand, I click, double click and use the scroll wheel. With Win8, I get confused and revert to basic, single button mouse behaviour which is common to both.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    38. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by khallow · · Score: 1

      Does it really "impeded work" or is it just different?

      Why ask dumb questions? Whenever you change the UI, you impede work until the user figures out how to do the things that changed. And a lot of UI changes just doesn't actually improve anything, like MS's ribbon interface in Office.

      Further, you mention two separate cases aside from the current one where MS just shuffled the basic computer interface around for no particular reason. That's three times when everyone who upgrades has to relearn the interface. That's automatic impeding of work.

    39. Re: How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good lot of change in this business, indeed in too much of Corporate America, is in fact change for its own sake. I just love the condescending attitudes of people who feel compelled to insult everyone who points this out, especially when they use bad examples.

      The Windows 7 UI improvements were in fact improvements in that they increased productivity without resulting in too much confusion because you generally won't get lost in 7 moving from XP even without instructions or training--though with those things you may well do much better. The gains outweigh the loss, in other words. Those things to disable you mention we're largely the result of manufacturers putting Vista and 7 on poor and unsuitable hardware and are not usually the result of what people like you call resistance to change.

      Windows 8 on the other hand was changed to try to make a unified OS for desktop, tablets, and phones. They removed the Start menu not because they had to but because phones and tablets don't deal so well with that concept. The result has been mass confusion and frustration because the new UI is not easy to figure out, and the full screen-only Metro apps just add to this. The good does NOT outweigh the bad here. This change was done because of marketing. It is an almost perfect example of change for its own sake and that users welcome 7 and despise 8 is proof of that.

      Change must be evaluated. Sometimes the evaluation is "fail". The real character flaw is not being willing to do that.

    40. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      Same here. The Windows XP system was becoming nearly unusable.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    41. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Don't be silly, they have to migrate to the next version of whatever it is they were running, right now it's 90% Windows Vista ;-)

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    42. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I contracted for a major bank and was responsible for rolling out software and disk images to about 17,000+ desktops. (There were plenty more.)

      Banks are EXTREMELY spending averse. With those kinds of multipliers changing ANYTHING becomes massively expensive. (That kind of outlay eats into the IT manager's bonus.)

      If Microsoft hadn't EOL'd NT 4.x, they'd still have been using it.

      XP is going to suffer the same fate; grudging acceptance amid grumbling by the accountants.

      MS with all these OS changes is NOT loved by corporate IT, certainly not at the banks.

    43. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Aonghus142000 · · Score: 1

      ...But it's unintentional, and MS may eventually fix the problem. They have no particular reason to protect a problem.

      Tell me another one. That was the funniest thing I've heard all week.

    44. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      I just hope you don't get *un*upgraded like I was at work for almost a year...

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    45. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 1

      When XP launched everybody in business always set the classic theme to make it look more like Windows 2000. by 2005 that practice was long dead...

      I don't know about you, but I never stopped that practice. You can still make Windows 7 look like Windows 2000 (it's a massive improvement IMO).

    46. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A lot. My company provides FOSS solutions to all sorts of businesses, and the enterprise has been ringing us like never before. I would estimate, just in the last six months, over 20,000 WinXP and older Win2003 servers and below have been replaced with Debian and/or Ubuntu. And that's just MY company, there competition in this market, and we don't get all the contracts.

      I personally wonder how much money MS has to spend to keep this knowledge from reaching the shareholders.

    47. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We wanted to install Windows 8 on two deskstop systems at work since they had 512Gbytes of memory each which represents a problem to windows 7.
      The IT department said "no way", so we had to fall back (or forward) to Linux.

    48. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Why ask dumb questions? Whenever you change the UI, you impede work until the user figures out how to do the things that changed.

      So in your world we should have stuck with the abacus and quill pens because every change since then has impeded work as the users had to figure out how to do stuff that changed. The whole "computerization age" must have blown your mind... expensive hardware, retraining costs, sure some forward-thinking person must have seen that it was better in the long term, but that person apparently wasn't you.

      And a lot of UI changes just doesn't actually improve anything, like MS's ribbon interface in Office.

      At this point I like using the 2010 ribbon more than Office 97's menus. I think it's genuinely better organized and works better. Yes, it took time to learn it...and yes the first iteration had some glaring oversights... but it was worth it.

      The start menu was a relic. The windows 8 start screen is flawed. 8.1 is better but still flawed. But clinging to the start menu just because you are used to it is absurd.

      OSX never had one, and everyone using it is coping just fine. OSX has spotlight, and launchpad, and things pinned to the dock. Windows has things pinned to the taskbar. The windows 8 start screen is a much improved version of launchpad. In my opinion all we need to fix win8 is a good 'spotlight' tool -- although there may be other 'good solutions' to that problem too.

      MS just shuffled the basic computer interface around for no particular reason.

      We both know every single change can be traced back to a source document / style guide / UI interface focus group document / or roadmap document ... whether you agree with every change is an entirely separate question. whether all the changes taken together make as much cohesive sense as possible -- even I'll agree they could do better. But they aren't just randomly moving things around.

      Linux is more guilty of that than microsoft. :)

    49. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by CodeBuster · · Score: 2

      Just like Emacs is.

      Lacking only a decent text editor!

    50. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Generally, I am seeing Windows 2003 Servers replaced with 2008 or 2012. Small businesses that used Windows servers generally can't replace them with Linux because they're using MS's VPN, AD, etc. For the other roles (primarily web hosting and storage), *nix and friends have already been dominating and I'm not seeing any change.

      I rarely seen Windows 8 at businesses, and usually in a BYOD situation or being tested by a techie type.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    51. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by dkf · · Score: 1

      Windows 3.0 Program Manager supported multiple, overlapping windows.

      Strictly, the overlapping windows came in with Windows 2. I had a copy. Win 3.0 was much nicer, if slower and far more bloated. (After all, you didn't need much colour on your screen, did you?)

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    52. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by khallow · · Score: 2

      So in your world we should have stuck with the abacus and quill pens

      And in your world, you'd be mocking people for complaining about the new abacus interface. Don't confuse UI thrashing with actual progress.

      As to your comments on MS usability features, that just hasn't been my experience. And it appears I'm far from alone.

      But clinging to the start menu just because you are used to it is absurd.

      No, it's a very good reason. It's obvious that you don't get why. Not everyone wants to waste the time to learn a new interface every time MS decides to obsolete an old interface.

    53. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      And in your world, you'd be mocking people for complaining about the new abacus interface.

      If it was because the vendor added a row, changed the colors, and the shape of the beads for the 2013 model then... yes.

      Don't confuse UI thrashing with actual progress.

      And yet most would consider windows 95 to 7 actual progress.

      As to your comments on MS usability features, that just hasn't been my experience. And it appears I'm far from alone.

      That's because most people make their judgements based on how much better it is with heavy value weighted on being able to apply the knowledge they already have.

      This is by no means wrong, and considering retraining costs and existing knowledge is certainly a very valid position but it does lead to design paralysis. We can't make slight improvements to something if we too highly value making it just like the old one.

      It is also worth considering what a person who does not use the old system and does not attach any value to how it worked before because they don't know how it worked before. In the long run this is the more important consideration.

      There are organizations and software packages that highlight the don't-change philosophy to the extreme. Accounting systems and other major systems exist that look exactly like they did in the 70s and 80s -- dos windows, function keys / hot keys, everything.

      Sure they don't have retrain people as the new releases come out. The latest version of one such package I work with was released just this month and would be at home on an IBM XT running DOS3. Training new people on it is a huge chore, because relative to what people use now the user interface decisions are antique.

      Not everyone wants to waste the time to learn a new interface every time MS decides to obsolete an old interface.

      The changes have generally been pretty slow and incremental. With the odd jump here and there. Win 7-> 8 and NT3 -> NT4 (or equvalently win3->95) are the two big ones. If one couldn't cope with the changes between 95->98->Me->XP-Vista->7 NT4->2K->XP-Vista->7 then really how does one handle buying a new car?

      It takes all of 5 minutes to handle the win8 start screen. The biggest flaw is that feature discovery is poor, and a lot of defaults are silly. It was a bad implementation... but I don't think it is a bad "paradigm". 8.1 is better but still flawed.

      As I've said before OSX does just fine without a start menu. If an enterprise were to hypothetically consider switching to OSX, they certainly wouldn't be proclaiming it would only happen if they could get a windows 7 start menu on it. Training users to use OSX's launchpad, spotlight, and dock would be the only sensible plan.

    54. Re:How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      My office has been making the move to Windows 7 from XP where replacements are applied, with a spattering of Linux here and there (a couple minor-use print servers/file servers, my laptop and desktop, and one upcoming data entry station if they ever decide where to put it). One accidental Windows 8 point-of-sale system that my predecessor ordered by mistake, and everyone hates it, but the hassle of taking it down and getting the vendor to reinstall their software has put a Win7 reinstall on hold for that machine.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  3. We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know why any sane company would be "spurred by the imminent availability of Windows 8.1" to drop XP. It's much more about XP's end of support on April 8, 2014. We can't have soon-to-be-unpatched boxes and laptops on our network, although I'm sure some will be in hiding past that date (VMs, second systems, etc).

    1. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by plover · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's only about XP's end of support on April 8, 2014.

      FTFY.

      There are zero positive valid business benefits to upgrading to Windows 8+, some non-issues that are used for sales pitches by OS vendors, and several negatives.

      In the non-issue column, there are:

      • We have no need for any application changes that take "advantage" of any of the new features of the new OS.
      • We have no need for any GUI changes that take "advantage" of any of the new features of the new GUI.

      In the negative column, we have the following:

      • Vendor support. End-of-life is used only for extortion by the vendor. We'd be perfectly content if they continued to support XP. It's not as if those bits rotted away through age.
      • GUI changes that disturb people who have no need to learn a new GUI. In particular, I don't want to pay someone extra to waste their time learning a new GUI.
      • OS storage requirements that increase the footprint of the OS. I don't want to have to buy new hardware, disks, CPUs, RAM, or motherboards.
      • Increasingly complex management and distribution requirements. We solved all those problems already. Now I have to re-solve them for the new OS.
      • Their originally poor security model was made more complex without making it better. Again, my training and costs rise, with no ROI.
      • Cost. Not only do the new licenses cost, but the ever increasing doom of moving to a Microsoft-based SaaSTCRMFYOAAB (Software as a Service That Collects Rent Money From You On An Annual Basis.) I don't need to pay their cloud fees to do my work.

      Microsoft thrives on confusing people into to forgetting that an OS is nothing more than the kernel, and the rest of the crap is GUI and application stuff that should not belong in the hands of the OS vendor. Apple has mastered fostering that misunderstanding as well. It's obviously profitable for them, which means it costs us plenty.

      The worst part is that I've had our infrastructure people tell us the cost of deploying Linux is too high, for several of those same negative reasons above. Well, we would have had to do it exactly ONE time, and then we'd have been done. But no, here we are, staring down another Windows end-of-life deadline, getting ready to write them another check. Too bad we can't sue those people for malfeasance.

      --
      John
    2. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zero? How about Hyper-V included with the OS?

    3. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by DogDude · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The worst part is that I've had our infrastructure people tell us the cost of deploying Linux is too high, for several of those same negative reasons above. Well, we would have had to do it exactly ONE time, and then we'd have been done.

      Oh, that's cute. Where do I get a copy of a Linux that came out in 2001 and is still supported by the manufacturer?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    4. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Corporate IT guys that fight change to make their jobs easier are the reason why the rest of the web still has to support IE 8.

    5. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If advances in computing technology doesn't excite you, please find a new line of work. Your just holding the rest of us back.

    6. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Please, tell me what Linux distro did require that since the last decade you:
      1 - Buy newer versions. The problem here is money spending, so free updates won't do it.
      2 - Change your GUI to something completely unrecognizable. Yeah, one of the 2 most used options from the last decade changed, and several people started using a third one, one of them is pretty like it was at 2001. And there are several GUIs intentionaly like the onld ones if you really need it.
      3 - Change your computer more than once on the decade.
      4 - Increase your workload in maintaining it.
      5 - Use a more complex security system.
      6 - Pay for SAAS.

      Those are the issues the GP enumerated. Go ahead, name one distro that has them.

    7. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would it benefit the end-user or the IT department?

      For the geek in me, I may be interested, but I might as well turn toward something that I am familiar with already: VMWare.

    8. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find the opposite to be true. The web developers who write only for a specific version of IE is slowing down all their associates' advancement. I specifically recall having no choice but to purchase Windows 7 (XP was not available, and I am not about to buy Vista to aggravate myself and the user), then realizing a website that we require on a daily basis will only work in IE7. Compatibility mode does not help. Their "IT" department's suggestion was to use XP Mode.

      A few years later, we are right back where we started: the same website works in IE8, but in Windows 7, if we upgrade to IE9 or 10, we can't do shit. Eventually, we will not be able to get systems with Windows 7 loaded any more. What then?! Hyper-V plus the cost of Windows 7 licenses? Why even bother when we can just install Windows 7 as the base OS?

    9. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the enterprise, Windows 8.1 gives some nice things though, GUI aside:

      1: BitLocker goes on immediately, so the laptops owned by the brain-dead sales-droids in the field are protected from the get-go. They won't be whining about how slow their laptop is during the one-time disk encryption process. USB media is also protected. Want to write to media, it gets encrypted or else. Easy to bypass, but good enough to keep USB flash drives secure.

      2: Better security. With a TPM chip and the UEFI crud, MBR attacks are detected and prevented.

      3: BitLocker again -- I can use TPM-less machines with a password, similar to TrueCrypt. That way, there is at least something protecting stuff.

      4: Hyper-V -- Having a tier 1 hypervisor is always better than a tier 2.

      As for Linux, it depends on the company. Some places can deploy it. Others, might be staring the barrel of a very hostile audit due to Sarbanes Oxley and other regulations, since most Linux variants are not FIPS/Common Criteria compliant, and for the legal eagles, this can be a deal breaker.

    10. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by c-A-d · · Score: 2

      I recommend the satellite technology industry. It's got to be THE most stagnant industry in tech these days. Satellite modems have finally heard of this wonderful thing called "Ethernet" and "Internet Protocol". Why, by 2100, they might have support for ipv6.

      To be fair, there's only so much you can do with satellite. It's hugely bandwidth limited and the latency kills a lot of applications. The only real innovations that I can think of is Carrier-in-Carrier aka Doubletalk and Vipersat. You can't count the implementation of Low Density Parity Check simply because the theory was written in the 60s and only now do we have the computing power to do it.

      --
      some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
    11. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Another BitLocker improvement in 8 is that you can use a plain password to unlock the drive. Windows 7 required a flash drive.

    12. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides your obviously trolling wordplay in using 'manufacturer" to guarantee there is no valid answer, I will take of liberty of rewording your question to more accurately depict the reasoning you seek and are unable to attain:

      Where do I get a copy of a Linux that came out in and is still supported by the community?

      Answer: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=list+of+linux+distributions

    13. Re:We're Skipping Windows 8 and 8.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think 1, 2 (with GNOME 3), and 6 can be knocked out with RHEL. I'm probably wrong on at least one point, though, and if this wasn't a three day-old story, I'm sure someone would be happy to call me out on it.

  4. Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by jayhawk88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Windows 8.1. *eyeroll* They're going to 7 you morons, and they're going to stay there for another 15 years. Doesn't matter what you do to the Start Menu.

    1. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      XP being end of life next April was the spur where I work and I expect many other places too. And yeah we're going to 7, not even thinking about 8 except for some tablets.

    2. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by BitwiseX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Windows 8.1. *eyeroll* They're going to 7 you morons, and they're going to stay there for another 15 years. Doesn't matter what you do to the Start Menu.

      Yeah, I read that, and thought BS as well. They're looking the wrong direction I think. Looking backwards at the curmudgeon that was Vista, that was (at least in my enterprise environment) completely skipped over. It was really a matter of earning back some trust.
      I understand that 8.1 is to 8 what SP2 was to XP (in theory) but I just can't see any advantage to using 8 in an enterprise environment.

      Not to mention, enterprise adoption is a SLOW process in a lot of cases. It's the same reason certain cars sell better on the used market than others. PROVEN reliability.

      (oh shit, did I just make a car anology... I really need to get off this site)

    3. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by jbolden · · Score: 2

      The end of Windows 7 extended support is January 14, 2020. Microsoft is not going to make the same mistake of indefinitely extending this date by continuing sales indefinitely.

    4. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The end of Windows 7 extended support is January 14, 2020. Microsoft is not going to make the same mistake of indefinitely extending this date by continuing sales indefinitely.

      They tried to kill XP. Repeatedly. They extended the deadline many times. They're going to do it again with Windows 7, because 8 is a steaming three coiled turd. Nobody asks when corporations are upgrading to Vista... because nobody is. How many corporations are looking at Windows 8? Next to none. Go ahead... find a job for a "Windows 7 to Windows 8 migration expert" on a job site for a Fortune 500 company. We'd all love to see the three positions in the entire world that are available for that job. -_-

      Please. Microsoft can try shoving stuff down their customer's throats... but all they'll do is get another XBone out of the deal. How's that working out for you, by the way, Ballmer? Polishing up the old resume I hear.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're writing as if your opinion matters. This indicates a complete lack of self awareness.

      In case you have forgotten, you're writing a comment on the internet to people who are only here to see that they've made a comment on the internet. I suppose it makes you feel better, and since only people who have nothing else worth living for would do this sort of thing I'd just like to wish you good luck, and to hang in there, we all care about you very much.

    6. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The end of Windows 7 extended support is January 14, 2020. Microsoft is not going to make the same mistake of indefinitely extending this date by continuing sales indefinitely.

      Uh, hate to point out the fucking obvious here, but with that date, Microsoft already made the same mistake.

      If you actually want people to buy your new products that you're trying to pimp every 6 - 12 months, then maybe you should consider shrinking the extended support down to something below a decade. Just a thought.

    7. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Funny

      So you're completely leapfrogging over Vista. How reckless :-)

    8. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Please. Microsoft can try shoving stuff down their customer's throats.

      Absolutely. Now, where can I get another OS that will be supported by the manufacturer for more than a measly 13 years?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    9. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows ME? What's that?

      s/ME/Vista/

    10. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How's that working out for you, by the way, Ballmer? Polishing up the old resume I hear.

      Aw man, that's gotta hurt. I bet this is Ballmer's reaction to your comment.

    11. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Fact: MS guarantees at least two years of mainstream support for the previous version after a new version of release.

    12. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by BUL2294 · · Score: 1

      Vista's up to SP2... It's stable by now and works just as well as Win7. (Sarcasm implied...)

      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    13. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

      Actually Windows 8 on the desktop is faster and more responsive than Windows 7.

      It's the Windows 8 UI that is the steaming turd.
      And the overall kernel improvements won't make much difference over 7 on our overpowered hardware anyway.

      --
      READY.
      PRINT ""+-0
    14. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by silviuc · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Sure it is. Got proof?

    15. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by jbolden · · Score: 1

      From IBM. i-Series, Z-Series.... they will support for decades. You just have to be willing as a company to pay generally 3x as much for your IT infrastructure.

    16. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by jbolden · · Score: 1

      They can't. Too many of their customers have long terms support contracts embedded. That's years less than XP but they can't mover over to Apple's model.

    17. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by jbolden · · Score: 1

      They tried to kill XP. Repeatedly. They extended the deadline many times. They're going to do it again with Windows 7, because 8 is a steaming three coiled turd.

      No they aren't. They main reason they extended XP was they were worried about Linux on netbooks and Vista/Windows 7 was just too heavy. It also took them a long time to get Windows XP stabilized with the early service packs doing a lot. Neither of those apply to Windows 7.

      As for Windows 8 being a turd... you are being silly. Microsoft is shifting their platform, Windows 8 does better than Windows 7 on virtually everything the objection people have is to an additional functionality which is easily adjustable. Windows 8 works well on the hardware for which it was designed: touchscreen, mobile hinge... Microsoft certainly made the same mistake they did with Vista in telling people that they can and should upgrade inappropriate hardware to Windows 8. That's a marketing mistake not a bad OS.

    18. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      They tried to kill XP. Repeatedly. They extended the deadline many times. They're going to do it again with Windows 7, because 8 is a steaming three coiled turd. Nobody asks when corporations are upgrading to Vista... because nobody is. How many corporations are looking at Windows 8? Next to none.

      Some day, the anthropologists will look back at Microsoft's OS release strategy and at least credit them with their cunning. They've been using the "Facebook Model" of making changes for longer than Facebook's been around: Make a bunch of changes that you know everyone will hate, then apologize and back off a bit to something more acceptable, at least you get to keep a lot of the changes you made.

      Politicians have been doing this for hundreds of years too. Windows 8 is the current pinnacle of this two steps forward, one step back approach. They even added advertising to the desktop search... It's almost if they've said: OK, Even version time, you guys do whatever the hell you want to the OS to experiment with and we'll mop up the damage with Windows 9... It's exactly like that; That's why MS isn't that worried over W8 sales, the re-skinned version users actually want is already in the works. Think about it: Over a decade of XP, then a few short years of Vista before Win7? And now W8's a flop... Oh noes! Of course, you can't tell your share-holders that lacking a control group you're actively planing to fail so you can test the direction you should take in the future.

      IMO, it's not the best experience for end-users, causing far too many disturbances in the force, but you can at least admit how clever the dark side of the desktop is...

      "I have modified the OS, pray I do not alter it further."
      -Darth Ballmer

    19. Re: Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Informative

      I work for a fortune 50, yes 50, company.

      You are spot on with XP, Vista, and Win 7. There are quite a few legacy systems stuck on IE6 because of stupid SAP crap. We only recently upgraded those to IE7 !!! (Classic short-sightedness of selling your soul to MS and we are literally paying the devil his due for not having the wisdom to use open standard but I digress.)

      I'll be visiting HQ next week. I'll ask some of the admins what our Win8.1 plans (if any) are.

      On the back end some flavor of *nix is obviously used. Allways kind of surprised (and glad) to hear OpenBD pop-up when I least expect it. Rest of *nix boxes are usually Solaris with some sort of Blades.

      OSX is become more visible. We even have a few satellite offices running OSX exclusively. I've been converting a few developers to *augment* their Win 7 & 8 boxes over to OSX. With the clusterfuck of Win8 it has been an easy "sell". Most people don't realize just how inconsistent and schizophrensic MS's UI is until they try something different. Everyone agrees OSX isn't perfect but compared to the garbage MS is going OSX looks like a saint. Apple couldn't "pay" for better marketing -- all they have to do is let MS suicide itself: Microsoft has never understood good UI. It took them how many years until they had the start of something decent in 95?! LOL

      Win8 is an interesting ball of wax. We already in the progress of migration to it -- mostly new Dell laptops. It is universally hated by everyone I talk to. People hate it for two reasons:

      a) sake of change for the sake of change when there was nothing "wrong" with the old UI
      b) Eveyone agrees Metro makes perfect sense on a tablet but screwing over the desktop users pisses off a lot of people because you are forcing them to waste their time and IT's time to relearn how to do the same thing as before. It is a hindrance from us doing our job and we are already overloaded as it is.

      I know that we're definitely going to be staying on Win 7 as long as possible. Hell, we're already running XP in VMs such as VMWare, Parallels and VirtualBox. A few of the OSX users are using Bootcamp - both Win7 and Win8.

      I haven't heard of one soul asking to use Win 8 (or 8.1) but when you have 100,000 people it probably takes a little but if time for THAT news to travel. :)

    20. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been migrating people off of Windows 7 as it's still a hole full of malware and impossible to support when it frequently borks without just reinstalling it.

      btw I've been migrating people to Linux

    21. Re:Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by toddestan · · Score: 1

      You may laught, but at my work we have a bunch of somewhat older computers that were running XP but had Vista stickers on them. Instead of buying Windows 7 licenses they've gone the cheap route and have been installing Vista on them using the key we've already bought. So we've currently got a bunch of PCs now running Vista, whereas a couple of years ago we had approximately zero running Vista.

      Yes, this seems pretty silly, but really Vista SP2 is not much different than Windows 7, and pretty much everything that supports Windows 7 also supports Vista, though not always XP. Well, except IE10 but no one cares about that.

    22. Re: Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting for by dkf · · Score: 1

      Win8 is an interesting ball of wax. We already in the progress of migration to it -- mostly new Dell laptops. It is universally hated by everyone I talk to. People hate it for two reasons:

      a) sake of change for the sake of change when there was nothing "wrong" with the old UI
      b) Eveyone agrees Metro makes perfect sense on a tablet but screwing over the desktop users pisses off a lot of people because you are forcing them to waste their time and IT's time to relearn how to do the same thing as before. It is a hindrance from us doing our job and we are already overloaded as it is.

      Having observed a number of people using Win8, the thing which they really really don't like is the drag-mouse-to-edge to make something invisible pop up that you still need for doing things with the machine. They just don't learn what's going on, and hate it when it happens by accident and doubly hate it when they can't find it when they're looking for it. Setting aside a few pixels so that people can see and be reminded that there is something important there would be by far the best solution, at least on laptops and desktops where there's plenty of screen space.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  5. "Modern desktops" LOL by JoeyRox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a really bad sign when you have to obfuscate product uptake percentages with amorphous terms like "modern desktops" to cover up the fact that your latest flagship software release was an unmitigated disaster. Maybe instead of blaming Microsoft's horrible missteps on Balmer we can blame them on the "Modern Microsoft execute".

    1. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by click2005 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I bet "modern desktops" includes Linux & OSX but MS wont talk about that.

      --
      I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
    2. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless of your opinion of Windows 8.x, enterprises have historically favored the 2-3 year old choice, no matter what it was. Having been around a couple of years means the early adopters have run into the bleeding edge issues, a couple patches have been released, and it's generally had time to prove itself.

      Even if Windows 8.1 was the best thing ever (and I'm not asserting that it is or isn't), enterprises wouldn't be interested in it for another couple years.

    3. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a really bad sign when you have to obfuscate product uptake percentages with amorphous terms like "modern desktops" to cover up the fact that your latest flagship software release was an unmitigated disaster. Maybe instead of blaming Microsoft's horrible missteps on Balmer we can blame them on the "Modern Microsoft execute".

      I tried that but I get this error:

      "Modern Microsoft execute did not complete successfully, Your computer's files and settings were not changed.
      Details;
      Modern Microsoft execute could not access a file. This is probably because an anti-virus program is running on the computer . Temporally disable your antivirus program and retry System Restore.
      An unspecified error occurred during Modern Microsoft execute, (0x80070005)"

    4. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet "modern desktops" includes Linux & OSX but MS wont talk about that.

      Don't you mean GNOME 3 , GNOME SHELL?

    5. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      Not really. I know this won't go over well here but both Linux and OSX have been failures in the marketplace. Microsoft's biggest OS competition comes from something it release more than a decade ago and desperately wants to kill. I'm sure there are version of Linux and OSX which would be considered "modern" but very few people care. Heck, Win 8 hasn't even been out a year. It's been hated on up and down and it is already ahead of OSX and Linux.

    6. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it was Ballmers fault though.
      He is the one behind all this mess in the first place.

      He, like Gates, could have fixed this but never, because he thought could thrown crap down peoples mouths like another late Steve could.

      And now he is turning Microsoft in to an even worse monster, the exact thing people AREN'T buying from Microsoft, hardware and services.
      OH HEY LETS TURN OUR COMPANY IN TO THAT, GREAT IDEA BALDNESS. Not that it will matter to him since he decided that it was such a great time to step down with all that free money. He literally has no care what happens to Microsoft any more, absolutely immeasurable beyond current science.
      He just wants to beat it out of that company and go do some coke with bald lesbians for some reason why did that image come in to my head oh god why do I post things when I just wake up

    7. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by TheGoodNamesWereGone · · Score: 1

      Show me the businesses on Vista then

    8. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      If Linux and OSX were an option on every computer like Windows is who knows what the adoption rates would be. In any case your definition of failure must be different to mine considering how hugely profitable Apple's PC division is.

    9. Re:"Modern desktops" LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aha, and now you have outed yourself as a Microsoft shill. Reality simply does not jibe with your statement, as has been related many times in this thread. Windows is actively being dethroned, especially in the enterprise, as the only direction it can go is down.

  6. Correlation does not imply causality by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Reller said the firm has "now seen about three quarters of Windows enterprises moving to modern desktops" from Windows XP, with the last leg of Windows XP migrations being spurred by the imminent availability of Windows 8.1.

    Um, no. Even though firms are buying Win 8, it doesn't mean that they are installing Win 8. Many of them are using a Win 8 license to install Win 7. If MS believes enterprises and consumers want Win 8 by choice, they are deluded.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    1. Re:Correlation does not imply causality by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If MS believes enterprises and consumers want Win 8 by choice, they are deluded.

      I am almost certain that MS does not care whether people buy Win 8 "by choice" or not. As long as they buy it.

      It is good to be a monopoly.

    2. Re:Correlation does not imply causality by binarylarry · · Score: 2

      Not so much when your empire is crumbling around you and you don't know why.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    3. Re:Correlation does not imply causality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's horrific for the world to be so controlled by such an aberrant monopoly. For the world's opinions and choices to be so led, clouded and generally FUDded up by that monopoly.

  7. Linux Mint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    is the best Windows XP still on the market.

    If you get sick of your desktop or laptop pretending that it's a tablet (due to modern Ubuntu, Microsoft, or Apple operating systems), give Linux Mint a whirl.

    1. Re:Linux Mint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      >Linux Mint
      Shitty bloated Ubuntu spinoff with a different theme and gnome-shell layout theme.

    2. Re:Linux Mint by ron_ivi · · Score: 0, Troll

      Wine-on-Mint is probably more compatible with XP apps than Win8 is anyway.

    3. Re:Linux Mint by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Wine-on-Mint is probably more compatible with XP apps than Win8 is anyway.

      This is currently modded troll, but on a related note, WINE is by far the easiest way of running oldish games (Windoes 95-98 era and onwards) in my experience. The compatibility modes of Windows 7, XP and even 2k has so many quirks as to be useless, if they manage to run them at all. WINE frequently Just Works.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
  8. Windows 7... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...is actually nice desktop OS for functional productivity. It's like having XP but upgraded under the hood for modern hardware. Mine is tastefully retrograded to the XP UI theme, plus some deeper settings to get rid of some of the annoying defaults regarding the task bar.

    Had no issues with it for a number of years now and plan to continue using it for the time being.

    1. Re:Windows 7... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Mine is tastefully retrograded to the XP UI theme,

      "Tasteful" and "XP UI" have, heretofore, never been seen as linked concepts. Typically, the comments are more along the line of 'my eyes bleed' and 'Turn it off!!!".

      I do not want to see what your room looks like.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Windows 7... by mrscorpio · · Score: 5, Informative

      He probably means the "classic" theme, which is really the Win2k theme.

    3. Re:Windows 7... by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      you should try the win7 task bar.. I thought pinning things would be inferior to quick launch, but after upgrading I find I much prefer the pinning option, because they also added hotkeys for the items in the task bar.

      windows + number will switch to the first ten items (or cycle through its group, if several instances are running and grouped), and it will open a new one if there isn't already one running. shift + windows + number will start a new one if there IS one already running.

      I haven't been using 7 for long, but I'm looking forward to discovering the new shortcuts.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:Windows 7... by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      the Silver and Green themes are pretty non-eye-bleeding.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    5. Re:Windows 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...is actually nice desktop OS for functional productivity. It's like having XP but upgraded under the hood for modern hardware. Mine is tastefully retrograded to the XP UI theme, plus some deeper settings to get rid of some of the annoying defaults regarding the task bar.

      This.

      HKCU\Control Panel\Desktop\ActiveWndTrkTimeout 50ms
      HKCU\Control Panel\Desktop\UserPreferenceMask 9f 3e 07 80 12 00 00 00
      HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\NoFileFolderConnection 1

      Now you've got focus-follows-mouse. No autoraise. X-mouse fun, just like PowerToys did before they took that away.

      And the third one disables the misfeature called "Connected Files" (if you save a web page, and delete foo.html, the default behavior is to delete the "foo" directory that contains all the assets required to make up foo.html. Who the fuck thought that was ever a good idea?)

    6. Re:Windows 7... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 2

      Correct, the Win2k theme. Should have clarified. The default XP theme is hideous.

    7. Re:Windows 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...is actually nice desktop OS for functional productivity. It's like having XP but upgraded under the hood for modern hardware. Mine is tastefully retrograded to the XP UI theme, plus some deeper settings to get rid of some of the annoying defaults regarding the task bar.

      Had no issues with it for a number of years now and plan to continue using it for the time being.

      Care to share the setting changes you made? I too use the XP UI theme, and I also use quicklaunch, but it keeps resetting it whenever windows 7 reboots.

    8. Re:Windows 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks a lot. My life at work will be less miserable as these two features are central to my comfy Linux desktop usage (though your suggestions show how the "Windows is easy" mantra is just a lie, in fact).

      Now, pardon me, but I'll have to look for some reference on those numbers -- no way I'm gonna type that and get serious problems with the IT folks at work.

      Finally, if there's just a way to have copy-on-select, my life would be a bliss...

      There are other things like multiple work areas, window shading and, my current infatuation, the plasma dashboard.

    9. Re:Windows 7... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      Most corporations have pretty much migrated to Windows 7, not only because of the end of life support issue but also Windows 7 can handle large amounts of RAM, which makes it very useful running multiple corporate custom apps.

      In my opinion, Windows 7 is probably the best version of Windows ever released: stable, fast, and most importantly, the user interface is familiar enough that anyone who's used Windows 95 or later can master Windows 7 fairly quickly.

    10. Re:Windows 7... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      So you disabled instant search, aero snap, and aero peak?

      Then why leave XP? Without these win 7 is XP but with 300% more bloat?!

    11. Re:Windows 7... by foniksonik · · Score: 2

      You must be in your 40s or 50s. It's like music tastes, people always prefer the music they listened to in high school and college, anything newer is crap to them and anything older is their parents music.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    12. Re:Windows 7... by Xyde · · Score: 1

      Which turns off the compositing window manager and is actually slower on a modern PC, not to mention uglier :p

      Someone should make a modern take on the Win2k interface which still uses DWM.

    13. Re:Windows 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I'm only 35, I still like 4WM from IRIX a lot.

    14. Re:Windows 7... by jaymzter · · Score: 1

      It's like music tastes, people always prefer the music they listened to in high school and college

      Cute, you must be young. I am comfortably in my 40s, and grew up listening to metal (think the Big Four: Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax). Currently all I listen to now is progressive house, electro & techno.

      Now, you may not like my current choices in music, but the point is that people change as they mature and grow older. It will happen to you to.

      --
      If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
  9. NT versions by chuckugly · · Score: 2

    In fairness, everything Windows PC since XP is NT 6.x, so moving from 5.x to 6.x isn't a completely silly thing to track.

  10. Win XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Windows XP is a great OS. I'm still using it here and boy, my system is very stable and fast.

    1. Re:Win XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No plan to change most of our PC's away from XP or Win7. They have no issues, runs all the software needed for much of our business. Got in a few i7 faster PC's for animation work that came with Win8 installed. Our first task was to "upgrade" them to Win7 then load our software. Runs fine! A couple of the older XP's boxes we loaded Linux. They now run faster than when Windows was installed !

  11. Our experience with XP to Win8 by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We're finally getting around to having a bunch of XP boxes replaced with new ones, simply because they're old and a hardware failure in one of them triggered the decision to do pretty much all.

    We looked at getting Win7 machines - or at least getting Win7 installed onto the machines as part of an agreement - but in the end, it just wasn't worth it. More than half our staff already has Win8 at home and are perfectly comfortable with it, and once you get past the start screen, Win8 is, for our purposes, practically the same as Win7.
    I do say 'once you get past the start screen', but we're actually seeing uptake in using it. We tried a few 3rd party start menu offerings (most of them are crap, from not letting you modify it through not even listing all of the installed software that you would see listed if it were a proper start menu), eventually settling on one.. only to realize that most of the staff felt perfectly comfortable with either A. going to the pinned items on the task bar, or B. typing the name of the program from the start screen (we haven't bothered with tiles for most things, and removed almost all of the defaults... if they want to know the weather, they can listen to the forecast every half an hour on the radio, or hunt down the app in 'all apps').

    While the future direction of Win8 may be something to worry about (more and more store-centric, marginalizing the desktop, etc.), the future of Win7 isn't all roses either. Given that Win8 at least will enjoy support far past Win7, well, the choice was a lot easier than we anticipated.

    Our biggest struggle has actually been with outdated software. 16bit software just won't run on Win8 (64bit - can be enabled on 32bit, but that's just another wall waiting to be hit), and while our admin would be comfortable with installing a VM to keep these going, we're just biting the bullet and converting legacy files to formats used by more modern software, finding alternatives for those applications that we do still actively use, and keeping two machines around for everything else; one running with a VNC, and the other in storage 'just in case'.

    1. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that you have no critical 16 bit apps and your staff do grunt work using a handful of programs. Nice for you. Does not extrapolate to the rest of the world though.

    2. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      We have a few - that's why we're keeping a machine around.

      Yes, our staff do 'grunt work', like 95% of people using computers to begin with - whether that's somebody typing up a document in Word, or somebody elegantly pushing function key combinations to keep an critical industrial process going (though I'm sure it pleases you to know that that's on a unix box), or somebody doing CAD work on a custom rig for transporting whatever it is the energy industry's come up with as the next best thing this time - it's all 'grunt work'.

      Nice for us, indeed - that's why the very title is "Our experience with", and not "Everybody's experience with". Silly AC.

    3. Re: Our experience with XP to Win8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dosbox

    4. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Informative

      > We looked at getting Win7 machines - or at least getting Win7 installed onto the machines as part of an agreement - but in the end, it just wasn't worth it. More than half our staff already has Win8 at home and are perfectly comfortable with it, and once you get past the start screen, Win8 is, for our purposes, practically the same as Win7.

      Um, no, it really isn't. It must be a relatively small company. We have well over 10,000 users, the great majority of whom are not computer geeks, and there's no way in hell a large company would make a jump like that, unless they were in the business of developing for Windows 8.

      What OS incoming hardware has pre-installed makes absolutely no difference. It is always re-imaged with the company's copy of the OS the company has standardized upon, with the company's blessed settings and applications. No company in their right mind buys PCs and runs whatever is already on them. Among other issues, that's a serious security vector.

      And so, for years we bought PCs loaded with Vista and reimaged them with our copy of XP. Now we're taking PCs and laptops loaded with whatever (Win8, say) and reloading them with our blessed copy of Win7. That's the way any large company does it who doesn't want to experience a widespread IT nightmare.

      So no, unless you're a relatively small company populated with mostly computer geeks, I'm not buying it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    5. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you really need to run legacy 16 bit apps, you should look into application virtualization. that will most likely resolve any compatibility issues you're having.

    6. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Critical 16-bit apps? If the apps were critical, then you should have moved them to 64-bit 10 years ago, seriously.

    7. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      How do you manage to install Metro apps? The store requires a Microsoft ID even for free apps. Does the company assign Microsoft IDs to everyone?

    8. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You know how I know you're lying?...

      More than half our staff already has Win8 at home

    9. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      Seriously, that's not how corporations do things. Which is why Cobol written in the seventies is still in use.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    10. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      You know how I know you're lying?...

      More than half our staff already has Win8 at home

      Yeah, what are the chances that the entire Win8 user base works for one company?

      Um, on second thought, that's likely to be true...

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    11. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      ... One of our customers has over 50k desktops, a business in the hospitality industry ... going straight to Windows 8 next year, in both corp offices and individual locations around the globe.

      Contrary to what you think, the world doesn't revolve around you or your narrow view of the world.

      Jumping to 7 rather than 8 just shows you're afraid of change. When 99% of your employees spend all day in a 1 or 2 apps that are full screen, and you treat a machine like a utility rather than your lover, the change doesn't matter.

      As a user, I find the start screen to be utterly jarring, but I switch between apps a lot. Most people don't.

      When will ignorant slash dotters realize their fantasy/love affair with their PC is something most of the rest of the world laughs at?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    12. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by BUL2294 · · Score: 2

      Hypothetical Example: "Important Business Critical SW" bought for $1 million in 1996 (compiled & sold as 16-bit so it would run on both Win95 and Win3.1x (without needing Win32s)), "Important, Inc." company went under in 1998, and nobody has a clue where the source code could be...

      How could this software have been moved "to 64-bit 10 years ago"??? This scenario happens more often than you'd like to think in the business world...

      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    13. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by willy_me · · Score: 1

      Our biggest struggle has actually been with outdated software. 16bit software just won't run on Win8 (64bit - can be enabled on 32bit, but that's just another wall waiting to be hit), and while our admin would be comfortable with installing a VM to keep these going, we're just biting the bullet and converting legacy files to formats used by more modern software, finding alternatives for those applications that we do still actively use, and keeping two machines around for everything else; one running with a VNC, and the other in storage 'just in case'.

      Run VirtualBox on a machine and setup the appropriate guest OS to run your software. Enable remote display in VirtualBox for your newly created guest OS. Now anyone can connect using RDP or VPN - whichever you decide to host. I recommend RDP because the Windows clients will already have client software installed.

      This is easier than setting up VM software on every computer. It also removes any restrictions governing which computer you can use to host the VM. And finally, it makes creating backups of your guest OS / application much easier as you just backup the VM image. The ability to take snapshots of the guest OS is also very useful.

      Of course, other VM servers would also work. My experience is with VirtualBox and, despite being free, works suprisingly well in this sort of situation.

    14. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by CBravo · · Score: 1

      It is not more important than 1M$ to you. That means you have a small business or like risks.

      --
      nosig today
    15. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > ... One of our customers has over 50k desktops, a business in the hospitality industry ... going straight to Windows 8 next year, in both corp offices and individual locations around the globe.

      That's corporate suicide, and you know it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    16. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      "That's not how corporations do things" was proven wrong when loads of people started doing a good bit of their daily work on iPads. Even where that is still true it is only true in a particular subset of that organization.

    17. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Or the data is stored and it is a must have now.

      I knew a guy who had a TRS 80 until the 21 st century. His data was on it and without it he would have to close down his business. He gets parts on craigslist and yard sales to keep his business going.

      This software will never ever die. If your customers are on that one proprietary app and it is gone then you lose all your customers. Also according to the cost accountants there is no return in shareholder value by upgrading?

      Drp master ERP 1996 edition for Windows 3.11 with IE 4 backend works just fine for the last 15 years. So why fix something that lowers the share price that works fine with a long track record?

    18. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      ... One of our customers has over 50k desktops, a business in the hospitality industry ... going straight to Windows 8 next year, in both corp offices and individual locations around the globe.

      Contrary to what you think, the world doesn't revolve around you or your narrow view of the world.

      Jumping to 7 rather than 8 just shows you're afraid of change. When 99% of your employees spend all day in a 1 or 2 apps that are full screen, and you treat a machine like a utility rather than your lover, the change doesn't matter.

      As a user, I find the start screen to be utterly jarring, but I switch between apps a lot. Most people don't.

      When will ignorant slash dotters realize their fantasy/love affair with their PC is something most of the rest of the world laughs at?

      Damn right we are afraid of change!

      Change where the phone rings every 2 seconds saying WHERE IS THE START MENU FIX IT NOW and calls going up 10,000% and people slaming the door begging for their old pentium IVs back so they can get some work done etc.

      Windows 8 is bad. Vista only 2 fortune 500 companies that I know of migrated which are Chevron and GM. Everyone else stuck with XP. Does that mean the 498 fear change? Yes and no. Most are embracing Windows 7 with 1/4 resisting and whining my guess here.

      So Vista was not because of change but because or problems. Same with Windows 8. Windows 7 most corps put plans together and ran labs but remember the Great Recession of 2009 - current? Windows 7 came out in the worst economic downturn since the 1930s!

      Upgrading computers when your share price is down 80% and you are wondering how many employees you need to lay off is frankly retarded. Many XP users stayed until 2011 when economic conditions improved and kept what they had instead to survive.

    19. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Our biggest struggle has actually been with outdated software. 16bit software just won't run on Win8 (64bit - can be enabled on 32bit, but that's just another wall waiting to be hit), and while our admin would be comfortable with installing a VM to keep these going, we're just biting the bullet and converting legacy files to formats used by more modern software, finding alternatives for those applications that we do still actively use, and keeping two machines around for everything else; one running with a VNC, and the other in storage 'just in case'.

      Run VirtualBox on a machine and setup the appropriate guest OS to run your software. Enable remote display in VirtualBox for your newly created guest OS. Now anyone can connect using RDP or VPN - whichever you decide to host. I recommend RDP because the Windows clients will already have client software installed.

      This is easier than setting up VM software on every computer. It also removes any restrictions governing which computer you can use to host the VM. And finally, it makes creating backups of your guest OS / application much easier as you just backup the VM image. The ability to take snapshots of the guest OS is also very useful.

      Of course, other VM servers would also work. My experience is with VirtualBox and, despite being free, works suprisingly well in this sort of situation.

      Can I deploy it to 10,000 workstations and manage it via group policy with Active Directory?

      How will you tell 10,000 users to look for some weird icon they never hard of called virtual cereal boxen thingie? Or will they just open up IE 10 and inundate the 3 Indian help desk team asking them to fix DRM Windows 3.11 1996 edition CRM on their internets? Or will they not see hte icon for it on their shiny new 4 year old Windows 7 desktops and again call help desk whining they can't get any work done FIX IT NOW!

      Last I saw even Windows 7 Pro with XP mode required a plugin not managed by active directory to be installed. gray hair users do not understand this. All they know is they have work to do and get angry and irritated when something changes and gets in the way. Even generation Y people do not know or care what virtualization is either if they do not work in IT.

    20. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by CBravo · · Score: 1

      Why? Long term or short term answer? It is like driving an old diesel car. It might do 500.000km or it might be 300.000km before it dies. Maintenance goes up and average price goes down when you get to the higher mileage. But, I would not bet my business on anything over 250.000km. Prepare for replacement The average shareholder does not drive a car that old.

      I think someone is taking too much risk with my money when a crucial part of that business may just break down.

      --
      nosig today
    21. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by BUL2294 · · Score: 1

      No, the $1MM isn't what's important here. $1 million or 1 cent--the point is the same. That niche software was sold by a niche company to a niche market, and nobody has come up with a replacement. This is likely due to some combination of the market being too small, can't reverse-engineer the code, and/or fear of patent trolls...

      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    22. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      It's a small company, about 700 people who have machines (and only a subset of which still ran XP). We do image them with our own set up of Win8, automated.

      The reason we wanted a Win7 install as part of the deal is because we do already have Win7 images, but we want to be sure that Win7 is actually going to run on those machines and get the support we're accustomed to.

      Again, turned out that economically Win8 made more sense in the long run, and the perceived problem with employees getting confused was way overblown.

      I can well understand a company of 10,000 having more reservations. On the other hand, if you have a blessed copy of Win7, why don't you have a blessed copy of Win8 (yet)? What is actually holding things back?

    23. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      "That's not how corporations do things" was proven wrong when loads of people started doing a good bit of their daily work on iPads. Even where that is still true it is only true in a particular subset of that organization.

      The exception that proves the rule. The ipad influx was driven by execs who largely started it by bringing their own devices to work. The main difference is that the suits wanted ipads and iphones, and IT had to struggle to adopt them. (And it was a pain in the ass.) The ipad is an executive toy that was adopted because people with influence liked them.

      Windows is a much larger problem, as most of the company's daily business happens on PCs. Even were we to allow it, there hasn't been a single case of an exec bringing in a Surface Pro and asking for us to make it work on the corporate intranet.

      This illustrates the classic meme "People use Apple products because they want to. People use Windows because they have to."

      Let me say this again so it's clear: The ipad was grudgingly adopted because people wanted it. Enough people, with enough influence, to get corporate to consider it.

      In contrast, nobody in the company wants Windows 8. Nobody is pushing Windows 8. We offer as company phones the iphone (most popular), three Android phones (that collectively come in a close second) a Windows 8 phone, and a Blackberry, which are tied for dead last with only a handful each. We have zero (0) Windows slates.

      One can beg the question about being "afraid" and go on and on about "clinging to your old musty OSs" but the fact remains that nobody needs or wants Windows 8. It's an unnecessary upgrade for corporate and a support nightmare. It buys us nothing but countless hours on support lines and decreased productivity while rank-and-file workers try to figure out what the hell is a "charms bar". A large company in a competitive environment would be giving their competitors an edge as they went through the churn, and nobody in their right mind would do that in a down economy.

      It's a dead issue. We'll see what Microsoft has when Win7 reaches EOL. In the meantime, there is a struggle to get away from thick client apps so we don't have to revisit this issue every time Microsoft craps out something they think we should be using.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    24. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

      Other than you 'don't like Windows 8', explain why its so horrible? The start page is the only major user noticeable difference between it and Windows 7, and there are plenty of IT/management reasons to choose Win8 over Win7. I've spent a couple weeks working with them to re-certify our apps with their upgraded internal apps and Windows 8. God knows how many millions they've spent in the process, and the cost isn't even a large percentage of a single years worth of their IT budget.

      They've been preparing for this migration since Win8 RTM. You'll have to excuse me if I don't think some random slashdotter knows more about a companies needs than the company itself.

      They're business isn't trolling slashdot with anti-MS sentiments, they rent beds. They have different requirements than you do. Windows 8 isn't that big of a difference in their workflow for end users, they'll just roll it into to their other yearly training programs and nothing of value will be lost during the upgrade.

      Windows 8 is a problem for curmudgeons, thats about it. Its trivial to never see the start page (without third party software) and other than there not being a start menu, and windows now being square instead of rounded Luna, I doubt 90% of their users will even notice the difference.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    25. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      You use a corp account and group policy rollouts? I love how people talk about Windows like its so horrible when they have absolutely no idea how it works and clearly have no experience managing it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    26. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      > I can well understand a company of 10,000 having more reservations. On the other hand, if you have a blessed copy of Win7, why don't you have a blessed copy of Win8 (yet)? What is actually holding things back?

      Because nobody wants it. Because there is no overriding reason to do so. Because a smart company doesn't create churn in the organization just for the hell of it. Because regular non-geek users like stability in their work environment. Because nobody in their right mind adopts the first release of any Microsoft operating system. Because (and this is important so I'm saying it twice) nobody WANTS IT. The OS is not an app -- it loads apps. Making the OS sparkly and new is not a selling point to corporate. And most especially, forcing a touch-centric GUI on a KVM environment doesn't make a lick 'o' sense. (See "nobody wants it", above.) There are slates here, mostly used by execs, but they're ipads, and the execs specifically pushed for them. (We don't even use Android tablets -- I tried to get corporate to issue me one, was turned down.) The ipad has the following advantages over the Surface -- (1) People want the ipad. (2) The ipad has been out longer, has a healthy ecosystem, and fairly good support these days in a corporate environment. (3) People want the ipad. We have zero Windows slates here. We don't need a Windows touch-based GUI. We most especially don't need a touch-based GUI on thousands of non-touch PCs.

      So why windows 7? Because a non-geek with Windows XP experience can sit down at a Win7 machine and immediately be productive. They may be annoyed that the menu no longer marches, but the conveyance is there -- it's obvious what to click. It's annoying that pushing a window up goes full screen and left or right goes half screen, but the conveyance is still there (the bar at the top) and it's easy to see what to do. It's annoying that the controls have all been rearranged, but regular non-geeks don't do much with them (can't really, per company policies) so it's not an issue for users.

      But put a non-geek, non-slashdot-contributor, non-app-developer with XP or 7 experience in front of a Windows 8 box, and they call the help line. That's a profound fail.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    27. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      In a company with thousands of users, a major change that causes said users to call the Helpdesk in substantial numbers when they should be working, is ill advised. Add that there is no reason to upgrade, and the decision is clear.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    28. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Aonghus142000 · · Score: 1

      And how are things in Redmond?

    29. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      To be fair, only the Enterprise edition supports "sideloaded" Metro apps. I can see why he/she would be unfamiliar with the feature.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    30. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Why? Long term or short term answer? It is like driving an old diesel car. It might do 500.000km or it might be 300.000km before it dies. Maintenance goes up and average price goes down when you get to the higher mileage. But, I would not bet my business on anything over 250.000km. Prepare for replacement The average shareholder does not drive a car that old.

      I think someone is taking too much risk with my money when a crucial part of that business may just break down.

      Did you read the part about proprietary data formats that can't be moved?

      Unlike a piece of machinery like a truck software does not age. It still runs the same is it did 17 years ago. True XP ages each time it is patched as you can't run a modern patched XP SP 3 with +1100 security patches on a machine with 128 megs of ram like the RTM version of XP. But software with no updates do not have this problem.

      I believe the answer might be virtualization as this software will now never die as it is ingrained to the business process at hand. Problem is virtualization for the desktop is still immature as MS and VMWare focus on the server. For example can I push a GPO to make XP mode install and start across 4,000 workstations whenever the user clicks the DRM Master for Windows for Workgroups 1996 edition icon? Right now no.

      Windows 8 has less options than Windows 7 pro in this regard. MS needs to up the game where a user can click an icon and the mode starts. Not the other way around and have it AD configurable in Windows 9.

      MS updates its software all the time so I do not think they know how bad the problem really is? I was told Bank of America has a pre 360 mainframe app that still processes home loans. It runs in an emulator written for the 360 40 years ago which runs in another 370 emulator on a modern 390 system where the punch cards for this 1964 program are all long gone. Without these 3 embedded emulators BOA can't do mortgages!

      Citrix may have a solution for some of these IE 6 apps as that runs in a browser plugin with a Windows 2003 server.

      True the average shareholder does not drive a car that old, but they expect their people paying them to do just that! Why, the shareholder wants the new car to himself via the cost savings from someone else going without. Greed is greed and people only care about themselves. Argue all you want but these cheapskates and guys iwth clipboards own the companies. Not the CEOs.

      Sadly if you really want to give a great ROI then do not invest in upgrading or virtualization and just keep XP longer. This what they have been doing for 10 years and the great recession didn't help either. Remember all the comments in 2009 when Windows 7 was released here on slashdot?

      They were all, uh my boss is trying to figure out how not to lay us all off. I do not think they are paying attention nor caring about upgrading their perfecting working computers right now.

    31. Re:Our experience with XP to Win8 by willy_me · · Score: 1

      Can I deploy it to 10,000 workstations and manage it via group policy with Active Directory?

      The suggestion was a replacement for maintaining two old boxes - one running VNC and another as a backup. In this situation you are not going to have very many concurrent users - most likely only one user at a time. This solution also requires a VNC client be installed on each client computer.

      Serving the application on VirtualBox (or another VM with an RDP server) does not require client software to be installed on 10000 workstations. Windows already provides the required software. Provide a configuration file that the user double-clicks to connect. The configuration file configures their client to connect to the server with appropriate settings for your organization.

      Login credentials for the VM can be provided indirectly with Active Directory - depending on the VM software. With VirtualBox, the RDC server can be configured to authenticate users in several different ways - they even provide an API for writing your own. One common method is to authenticate users against users on the host machine. Configure that host to authenticate through Active Directory and you have Active Directory control of the VM.

      I am not suggesting an industrial strength solution - for that you will have to rewrite the application. But what I suggested is far more maintainable then installing VNC clients and maintaining / backing up outdated hardware.

  12. Re:Windows XP?? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Informative

    people still use Windows XP? It is 2013! Don't tell me they are still running Pentium 3 computers at 900 MHz. My university uses Windows 8 and Dual Core processers at 2.6 GHz. Just saying.

    You should try running XP on a recent system sometime; it's very zippy, and with all the patches applied, quite stable.

    Plus, it virtualizes well with a low memory footprint.

  13. Re:Windows XP?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dat processer

  14. ---- waves hand ---- by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    Yeah. The company I worked for started migrating to Windows 7 earlier this year. We're maybe 30% there. We're going to skip 8.whatever and see what's available when 7 nears end of life.

    Corporations that are not themselves in the computer business tend to be a bit conservative about OS upgrades.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:---- waves hand ---- by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Yeah. The company I worked for started migrating to Windows 7 earlier this year. We're maybe 30% there. We're going to skip 8.whatever and see what's available when 7 nears end of life.

      We started our migration to Windows 7 in 2012 and plan on being finished by the XP cut-off date. After that, there are a few possibilities:

      1. Microsoft implodes in some fashion and MSOffice now runs on Linux.

      2. Win8 flops so hard that they release Win 7.1

      3. We figure out how to run MS Word, MS Excel and MS PowerPoint in WINE on Linux. Or OpenOffice / LibreOffice get to parity on Word/Excel files (they're close now, but not close enough to swap files with clients who are using the Microsoft product).

      4. We switch to Linux and run Win7 inside a VM for certain applications.

      5. We switch to OS X.

      In short, we're about 3-6 applications away from dropping Microsoft Windows on the desktop. Any new technology added in the past few years has to be either platform-neutral (web-based solutions) or multi-platform (runs on Windows, OS X and Linux) and open source. We never bought into MS Exchange or MS SharePoint.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    2. Re:---- waves hand ---- by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > In short, we're about 3-6 applications away from dropping Microsoft Windows on the desktop. Any new technology added in the past few years has to be either platform-neutral (web-based solutions) or multi-platform (runs on Windows, OS X and Linux) and open source. We never bought into MS Exchange or MS SharePoint.

      The technology is pretty much there, isn't it. Seems to me that this might be precisely the wrong time for Microsoft to try to show us how we have to accept whatever they want to release and like it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  15. Will that make NSA Happy ? by Fantasio · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would not be surprised if for Microsoft, "Modern Desktop" means "with NSA compliant backdoors". I have been obliged to switch from XP to 7 and frankly I gained nothing in terms of functionalities or ease of access.

    1. Re:Will that make NSA Happy ? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 0

      No functionality gain? Learn to pin your most used apps to your task bar. Boom, time saved right there.
      Want to run an app that's not pinned to the task bar? Hit the windows key and type a couple of letters. Boom, it's right there. Now pin it to the task bar.

      You're welcome.

  16. Re:Windows XP?? by Hartree · · Score: 4, Informative

    And?

    The attitude you are showing is that of a toy fan, not a professional.

    There are still large numbers of XP boxes out there doing tasks every day.

    They might not be what you'd want for your own workstation, but for running the mass spectrometer or x ray diffraction machines that would take 200K+ each to replace with the modern ones, they work just fine.

    I'll guarantee that a lot of the workhorse computers in the laboratories at your university run XP (or maybe even Win 2K, or NT 4).

    I maintain those systems for the chemistry department at a major university. Most researchers aren't flush with so much cash they can replace machines that are only a few years old. And, the manufacturers tend not to update their systems without good reason (if it ain't broke, don't break it by trying to fix it).

    Just yesterday, I was working on a system with a VESA local bus 486 DX2 running it. Yeah, it's old, but it does certain specialized x-ray diffraction work just fine. We'll be happy to update it as soon as our broke state (or the NSF that's under sequester) coughs up a quarter to a half a million for something that can replace it. i.e. no time soon.

  17. Re:Windows XP?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Running XP on a core i3. It works fine!

  18. Arch Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or go to Arch Linux if you wanna train your brain :)

  19. Majority of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'PC Gamers finally migrating Away from Microsoft'

  20. big enterprise sites are loaded with in house tool by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    big enterprise sites are loaded with in house tools and all kinds of other stuff that makes changing OS hard

  21. Migrated my company from XP in 2008 by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To Linux. We have been 100% Linux since then - not a single Microsoft machine in the entire operation. And yes, we do get threatening letters from the BSA every year...

    1. Re:Migrated my company from XP in 2008 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how will the BSA snoop software work then?

  22. At that time by waldo_rastel · · Score: 1

    Ubuntu was not even an OS. OSX was at version 10.1. PageRank wasn't even patented yet. If you seriously believe that any successful software company, hasn't made improvements to their core product in 12 year, then I have this bridge to sell you...

  23. The clock is ticking by davidwr · · Score: 1

    If it weren't for that April 2014 end-of-life deadline and related "end of support" for XP-compatible device drivers and application software, the numbers would be substantially lower.

    I can live without support for most software, but anything that represents a potential vector for outside security threats as well as the core of the OS itself I need at least security-level support for in order to run a business on it.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  24. How MS can fix this dumpster fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's painfully clear that enterprises will stay as far away from Win8.x as possible and for as long as possible. But I think there's a way to make everyone happy, not that I expect MS to take my advice.

    As soon as Ballmer's replacement is installed, MS should announce that they're bringing out Win9 as soon as they can. It will be Win7 + some list of frequently requested features/changes (a real, industrial strength file manager, for example, something akin to Directory Opus). And it will be a free upgrade for Win8 users, and steeply discounted for everyone else -- say $49 for Win7 users and $99 for everyone else.

    The kicker is to turn the dumpster fire into a positive. Run an ad campaign in which they show product logos/graphics and have a movie trailer dramatic voiceover that says, "You thought Microsoft Bob was bad... You thought Windows ME was bad... You hated Vista... And holy crap did you hate Clippy... But we managed to top it all with Windows 8." Then the new CEO explains that they screwed things up very badly, apologizes, and unveils Win9, code named Windows Classic.

    The free pub from the media would be deafening. The comparisons to New Coke would be obvious and would only add to the benefit for MS. Above all, it would humanize a company that's done a spectacular job of dehumanizing themselves.

    As I said, there's no chance whatsoever MS will actually do anything close to what I described. They will surely keep trying to bludgeon their users into running Win8.x, even as there's a booming business in "Windows 7 Forever" t-shirts and mugs and they get nothing but complaints from users and hardware OEMs.

  25. Windows 8 Fear Mongering by AnnonUSA · · Score: 0

    It is never easy changing OS versions. But if you are reluctant to the point of fear, nothing would ever change. I am using Windows 8 on my home, office and Laptop systems and there are zero issues that prevent me from doing what I used to do with XP, and everyone screaming about how Windows 7 is better than 8 is just wrong. Windows 8 is Windows 7 SP2. Windows 8 "metro" is like a shell that you do not have to interface with if you do not want to. The Windows 8 "Apps" are mainly garbage and just a way to sell advertizing space to Microsoft customers, but they and the Metro Interface are OPTIONAL. People should be much more concerned about Office 2013 and the Crippled "Click to Run" versions that Microsoft keeps as a dirty secret, as it allows them to block other companies interoperability to generate more Software as a subscription sales.

    1. Re:Windows 8 Fear Mongering by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      > It is never easy changing OS versions. But if you are reluctant to the point of fear, nothing would ever change.

      It's not a matter of fear. I have one machine running Windows 8 for testing purposes. After a reasonable amount of testing, I don't intend to ever have another machine running Windows 8. This is not fear. This is practicality.

      There's no reason to switch. Win7 will be around for a long time, and the longer I use it the longer Microsoft has to fix the next version of their OS.

      At work, the company buys PCs and reimages them with whatever the company has standardized on. So the fact that the machines come in with Win8 is moot.

      And seriously, the OS is just a program loader and a resource manager. It is *not* the application. I don't need it to change. I most especially don't need the GUI to change from square opaque to rounded translucent and back to square opaque for no damned reason whatsoever.

      We're up on the shallow end of the curve on OS development. There is no overriding reason to buy the next version.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  26. So that begs the question.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did the ReactOS finally go beta?

  27. Re XP is like herpes in the enterprise by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    If you scratch under the skin and go on the network it is still there underneath the surface. POS systems, clients in a particular group who need an IE 6 app, equipment, branch offices far from headquarters etc.

    90% still have XP used somewhere and 40% still haven't started migration yet from what I have seen. FYI I specialize in XP to Windows 7 migrations in consulting.

    Hospitals and schools and small to medium sized businesses are the ones not upgrading. Even without IE 6 many smaller businesses doo not give a shit as they like the fact employees cant use facebook and view IT as an expense. Small to medium sized businesses make up the majority of jobs and have no IT departments but do have accountants who always advise no to IT.

    XP is not going anywhere for years to come with these users. It is amazing how technology moved forward until 2002 or so and just stopped and set for this market. No gradual slowness just stopped from tje 2002 recession. These users now realized the cost saving and familiarity and like it. Why change for the sake of change

    1. Re:Re XP is like herpes in the enterprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When XP is officially out of support, there will be oodles of exploits that never get patched. I'm going to love to see the carnage and fallout from that.

    2. Re:Re XP is like herpes in the enterprise by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      When XP is officially out of support, there will be oodles of exploits that never get patched. I'm going to love to see the carnage and fallout from that.

      The users do not care. I am talking mechanic shops, restaurants, and other small businesses who make up the majority of business users not the big boys with custom apps contrary to popular belief.

      Many stil use SCO Unix for the POS systems to print customer receiepts for crying out loud in green screen glory. You all seen them and know what I am talking about?

      Hospitals will find it cheaper to pay MS for patches at $250,000 up as that is the cost to replace a single MRI. To have the FDA recertify all that infrastructure is too expensive. They will keep using IE 6 and XP until after 2020 and never will change and just go buy parts from craigslist. You can thank Obamacare for that which is cash stripping hospitals left and right.

      Schools still use IE 6 and Windows 2000 and have no plans to upgrade. They work just fine and they have cards with some software called freeze which with the hardware can undo any changes that any malware can provide. It makes them undestructable and saves money in leui of non upgrading.

      I think XP is the start of the mainframe like platforms that exist for decades upon decades. The desktop innovation is gone and it is about mobile platforms now. XP = IBM 360 while Windows 7 = 380 of the the 80s that never changes.

  28. Re:Windows XP?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (Not OP)
    Agreed. I still have a few Windows XP systems at work. If Microsoft had not put their meddling noses where they do not belong, we would continue to use Windows XP until the death of the motherboard.

  29. pfft... nothing to do with windows 8 by smash · · Score: 1

    ... it's more to do with the fact that Windows XP extended support (for security updates) ends in April. Which is just over 6 months away.

    Contrary to what some believe, the enterprise is not stupid. If XP performs the functions required (and for many, it does) and is supported for security fixes (it currently is) and there is no compelling financial reason to encourage migration to another platform, guess what? The platform stays.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  30. Re:Windows XP?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just yesterday, I was working on a system with a VESA local bus 486 DX2 running it. Yeah, it's old, but it does certain specialized x-ray diffraction work just fine. We'll be happy to update it as soon as our broke state (or the NSF that's under sequester) coughs up a quarter to a half a million for something that can replace it. i.e. no time soon.

    Why on earth would you be happy to update it? It does it's job, is actually MORE secure than more modern systems like Windows XP/7/8 (no exploits from the last 10 years would work on a machine that old), has no bloated, complicated and useless programs running in the back- and foreground, and failed hardware can be replaced at the cost of a few pennies. In fact, you could pull a few 486s out of the trash somewhere and keep a heap of it in your garage for future replacement at virtually no cost.

  31. Re:Windows XP?? by Hartree · · Score: 1

    I meant updating the entire x ray diffraction machine to a new one, not just the computer.

    That particular machine is old enough that it needs more operator intervention and maintenance than a new one would. The more modern x ray sources and detectors on a newer one would allow the particular tests this does to be done more quickly. A more capable control system would require less operator time for alignment and setup. (For those who do x ray diff work, it's a rotating anode machine that does our small angle x ray scattering and powder diffraction work. We just don't do as much powder diffraction or SAXS as we do other methods, so it's not as high a priority to keep up to date).

  32. Nobody wants W8 by TheGoodNamesWereGone · · Score: 1

    I know of no business-- not even a single one-- hankering & chomping at the bit to move to W8. Indeed, most of them are satisfied with XP and will have to be dragged kicking and screaming away from it come May 2014. The smart ones have already moved to W7, and they're perfectly happy with it. People point to Vista and Millenium Edition as being failures, but I don't think M$ has ever laid such a turd as W8/8.1.

  33. Re:Windows XP?? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I meant updating the entire x ray diffraction machine to a new one, not just the computer.

    I always find this alarming about lab equipment. You have something costing $500,000 but is entirely dependent on a $2000 computer. Not only that the "cheap" computer is both likely to break before anything else and be very difficult to replace.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  34. XP on VMs by advocate_one · · Score: 1

    is what we're doing, we've jumped to windows 7 on our desks but are still running lagacy items using XP in virtual machines. The hardware is good enough to get decent performance with XP in those VMs.

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  35. Why is nearly everyone defending an insecure OS? by cbope · · Score: 1

    I find it very interesting to read so many people here defending XP in light of its security weaknesses. We're talking about an OS that has a horrible security model out of the box and encourages applications to be designed to run with full admin privileges. If you are a developer stuck on XP and you haven't updated your software to work properly with the newer security model introduced in Vista, well shame on you. You've had way more than enough time... 7 years to be exact.

    XP is the "odd one out" now, with regards to how you design a good, secure Windows application. There are 3 newer versions of Windows and the 4th is coming next week, all with a similar, much more robust security model. XP is now the bastard child, different from the rest. Sickly.

    And don't forget the 64-bit question. While 32-bit XP was very widely used and adopted, the 64-bit "edition" was an instant bastard child, born out of the unholy union of XP and Server 2003 64-bit. Very few applications support 64-bit XP and with good reason. While it was the first 64-bit Windows on the desktop, its compatibility with existing and even new applications was never a strong point. It was a niche product and never gained widespread support. If you need 64-bit support, XP doesn't cut it. We work with very large datasets, and 64-bit is basically a requirement for much of what we do.

    We are about to release the last versions of our software that support XP and I can't wait for the day we drop support completely. It's an additional testing burden when we already need to test all newer versions. Plus, it behaves differently than the rest. Continuing to support XP today drives up costs and limits adoption of newer and better technologies. It had a good run, but now it's time to let it die. There are newer and better Windows versions.

  36. And now someone will laugh at you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They'll laugh at you when they ask you what is just soo horrible about Windows 8.

    XP barely became better than Win98 and NT after SP2.

    However, on release, it was touted as faster and smaller than NT (at the latest level of SP). Each SP has undone the size and speed gains to then eventually exceed them.

    And please tell me WHY should I move to Win8? It isn't free, so you have to justify why I should spend hard hearned money because Microsoft do not want to keep something that they own still going. If they don't think there's any money to make on XP, will they stop chasing pirates of XP? No. They still see value, but the ONLY value it has is ensuring people cannot have a choice and must move to another newer version of Windows that pays them.

    1. Re:And now someone will laugh at you. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Windows XP is dangerous even patched. So many businesses use IE 6 unpatched to handle social security cards, credit card numbers, and other things.

      It was designed in an era when MSN and AOL was big and the web was this little thing called minspring and geocities.com pages. All you needed was a password and you were fine right?

      No such thing as a buffer overflow, exception handaling bugs, sandboxing? Whats that? etc.

      Did you know for Chrome and Firefox to function in XP sandboxing is actually disabled! The kernel is 12 years old and can not support it. You can run something by simply doing a peak and poke into a ram address in XP in limited user mode! When that .dll is run your malware is run with it. You do not have to click anything to get infected. Just use flash which has a memory corruption bug and your machine is instantly owned in a web page.

      Windows 7 at least scrambles ram addresses via ASLR. Instead of handing out ram addresses hard coded into .dlls it uses virtual addresses which are 2 TB in length. Windows 8 goes a step further and prevents spraying all the virtual ram addresses until the right address is actually rewritten.

      IS MS being greedy here?

      MS has a whole security team with hundreds of people working with law enforcement agencies complete with a whole freaking command center! That costs $$$$ to maintain. Why? So people in 2001 who paid $120 can fund it year after year? Cars are not free either and maintenance in software is covered by the manufacturer in the case of XP so you never see it.

      MS is breaking even at this point with XP unless of course you are fine with no patches at all. Oh and FYI XP was fine pre SP 2. I ran it on day one in 2001 and I had no issues at all and was still a humongous upgrade from Windows 98.

  37. Re:Windows XP?? by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

    We have the same issues in my company. An IT guy called the people in the lab "to talk about their lab computers" and upgrading to Win7. He was promptly told to forget about it and crawl back under his stone!

    I suspect the old machines will be air-gapped, which is something that will impede productivity somewhat, especially when it comes to apparatuses that produce large volumes of data.

  38. It's still supported: by you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are NOT allowed to support Windows because you are not allowed access to the source code.

    So there's a copy of linux from 2001 that is still supported. Either by you or by whatever geek or company you wish to pay for support.

    Or were you demanding FREE support?

  39. How much time is spent on window decoration? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The classic theme may be slower than the GPU accelerated Barbie Shop XP theme, but what, exactly, is it doing?

    Renders the window dressing.
    Does the background image
    Renders the buttons.

    How much of the modern CPU is spent on such things now? Parts per million? Parts per billion?

    1. Re:How much time is spent on window decoration? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      And you can disable drawing the content of windows when they move. I did it on the Xfce I'm currently using.

  40. Re:Why is nearly everyone defending an insecure OS by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

    I find it very interesting to read so many people here defending XP in light of its security weaknesses. We're talking about an OS that has a horrible security model out of the box and encourages applications to be designed to run with full admin privileges. If you are a developer stuck on XP and you haven't updated your software to work properly with the newer security model introduced in Vista, well shame on you. You've had way more than enough time... 7 years to be exact.

    XP is the "odd one out" now, with regards to how you design a good, secure Windows application. There are 3 newer versions of Windows and the 4th is coming next week, all with a similar, much more robust security model. XP is now the bastard child, different from the rest. Sickly.

    And don't forget the 64-bit question. While 32-bit XP was very widely used and adopted, the 64-bit "edition" was an instant bastard child, born out of the unholy union of XP and Server 2003 64-bit. Very few applications support 64-bit XP and with good reason. While it was the first 64-bit Windows on the desktop, its compatibility with existing and even new applications was never a strong point. It was a niche product and never gained widespread support. If you need 64-bit support, XP doesn't cut it. We work with very large datasets, and 64-bit is basically a requirement for much of what we do.

    We are about to release the last versions of our software that support XP and I can't wait for the day we drop support completely. It's an additional testing burden when we already need to test all newer versions. Plus, it behaves differently than the rest. Continuing to support XP today drives up costs and limits adoption of newer and better technologies. It had a good run, but now it's time to let it die. There are newer and better Windows versions.

    Part of the reason is habit and once you never do something in a very long long time your brain thinks it is wrong to do it because that means change.

    In the case of upgrading after being told for 12 years to never ever update that is bad IT then feels it is unprofessional to upgrade. Why? It is something you never do. That is why etc! ... on a more practical note the reason XP is used is many places the accountants and MBAs have taken over the IT departments and this thing called "The Great Recession" changed the mindset of these beancounters.

    Many IT loved Windows 7 back in 2009!. 90% of these corps invested in labs to test Windows 7 images but guess what happened that year in 2009? Stock market whent down 14,000 to 5,000! Corporations had massive layoffs totaling over 10 million.

    When you need to make a choice to keep the lights on and feeding employees in these dark years the case of upgrading perfectly working computers goes out the Windows. Now mix in IT workers who have been told change is bad for 12 years and you have a recipe of resistance where the can is kicked. MBA folks get their raises by cutting costs and firing people and will lose their bonus next year if IT invests in technology that they do not really need (in their opinion).

    IT needs to sell themselves better as these MBA guys think XP is just as secure. They are not computer geeks. They are money geeks. They do not understand these issues and in their eyes systems magically still work with what they have so why change?

    If they can be told another code red can take the company down you can BET YOUR ASS THEY WILL UPGRADE infact they are just starting to do that now. The real quesiton in 2020 is what will compell them to leave Windows 7? I can't think of anything now besides HTML 6 and CSS 4 support from a non sucky version of IE (in that time's standard.) The PC is mature and turning into the mainframe now they gets updated every few decades because they work.

  41. Re:Windows XP?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yup. WinXP 32bit is my favourite, least hated Windows on a VM. That way, it runs fine on my Mac and Linux laptops for MS Office.

  42. Re:Windows XP?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those machines should probably be virtualized, to make them maintainable again.

  43. Re:Why is nearly everyone defending an insecure OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Zone Alarm Extreme Security and XP for personal computing is awesome. Microsoft should be backing the general population on their choice as it made Microsoft rich. 32 bit is as fast and robust as most people need. Don't leave us in the dark because we like some things left as they are when it is possible to hunker down XP's security.

  44. Moving to windows 7 maybe not Win 8. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know our staff and others see windows 8 being a nightmare for users. We will migrate to windows 7, but no way are we moving to windows 8. The help desk phones would be ringing off the hook if we migrated to windows 8.

  45. Re: How close to 100% is the Windows 7 percentage by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Funny

    you must really hate him.

    --
    Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  46. Both of the users who migrate to 8.1... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    are going to be very disappointed.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  47. Windows 8.1 (a.k.a. Windows Me two) by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    I've had the distinct lack of pleasure working with the Windows 8.1 RTM for the past two days. Virtually none of our apps installed correctly the first time, including Visual studio 2010. At one point, a large "help" dialog appeared telling me to swipe in from the left hand side. I couldn't get rid of this thing for love or money. Did I mention it covers about 1/4 of the screen and that you basically have to reboot to get rid of it?

    To state the blindingly obvious, interface changes without any significant feature changes are not a value add, they're a value subtract. It doesn't matter if it's the Windows GUI, ASP.net or Powershell.

    Got Microsoft stock? Sell.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  48. Upgrading to Vista and Win7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have a small network (~50 desktops), and we don't have volume licences so we are upgrading our desktops from Windows XP to Windows Vista x64 and Windows 7 x64 (depending on the OEM licence that came with each computer).

    I know that a lot of people had bad experiences with Vista in the past, but so far our users are really happy with it and wouldn't go back to XP. It seems to be as stable as our Windows 7 PCs. It may be a little bit slower to boot than Win7, but once it's booted it's a lot faster than XP (thanks to the SuperFetch service).

  49. Nope... by plazman30 · · Score: 1

    We haven't done it yet. We're trying to, but the IE6 crutch is costing us a fortune.

  50. Re:Windows XP?? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    Time to upgrade that Pentium 3 to Windows 7 (really, if it has at least 768MB or 1024MB memory it's a realistic proposition to do that)

  51. Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work with a lot of large to medium sized companies and I know of only one that has even mentioned going to Windows 8.

    I am currently on a Windows 8 laptop with Classic Shell, and it is mostly useful until I click on a picture or PDF and it throws me back into tile land.

    Even more curious, I have yet to see anybody moving to Server 2012. Pretty much everybody is happy with Server 2008 R2.

    The main reason I would see for ditching XP (If it wasn't for the deadline) is to allow for more than 3.3 GB of memory on a client because Windows XP x64 is a red headed stepchild OS that doesn't have any drivers made for it.

  52. Ad from Microsoft? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    We haven't had any problems with Windows XP. If you have problems, you can re-load the OS from a CD.

    To me, this Slashdot article seems to be an advertisement generated by Microsoft. Worldwide, there are still hundreds of millions of people using Windows XP, who have no reason to stop.

    Many computers are used for business methods and data entry. There is no need or desire for new features.

    1. Re:Ad from Microsoft? by redlemming · · Score: 1

      It's interesting to note that VMWARE advertisements state that one can "Run Windows XP forever". I infer from this that there's a lot of people in business that want to do just that.

      From a Gamer's perspective, there seem to be lots of great classic games that run well on Windows XP, and not-so-well on newer versions of the Windows OS family or on Linux WINE, which provides a good motivation for keeping it around, and not just in a Virtual Machine. Dual boot works well.

  53. SCrew 8 and .1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully will be retired before that abomination 8.1 becomes an idea for anyone in management to suggest we implement..ugh..

  54. The real reason IT departments are finall moving by ameoba · · Score: 1

    When was the last time you actually did a fresh install of XP? Just the other day I tried doing it on an early Vista-era laptop.

    To start with, the XP (SP2 media - it was the only XP license I could find) installer couldn't recognize my SATA drive. Lacking a floppy drive, I had to go searching for ways to get the drive recognized. I was left with two options: Either rebuild my installation media & slipstream drivers onto it or go into BIOS and set my drive controller to a legacy emulation mode.

    Once I got the base OS installed, almost none of my hardware was recognized. Neither my wired nor my wireless network controllers were recognized. Sound and video not recognized. There were about a half dozen other unrecognized devices that Windows couldn't even tell what type of device it was. Fortunately, being a laptop, I was able to go to the manufacturers site to locate and download all the drivers on another PC and bring them over on a USB stick. I, knowing that I would need to prepare myself, took the opportunity to grab Service Pack 3. These installed without a hitch.

    Finally, having an installed system with the (mostly) recognized hardware & the latest service pack, I tried running Windows Update. You'd think that would work, right?

    Nope.

    The Windows update components installed on the system tried to connect to a service that no longer exists. All of the links it threw me to troubleshoot the problem 404ed. None of the troubleshooting docs on the MSFT website seemed to help. There were automated "FixIt" scripts that didn't do anything and tried linking me to a website that no longer existed. Somewhere along the way it was suggested I install the .NET framework - the download page barely functioned in my crufty old browser. Eventually I found a post in a forum with a link to an installer for an updated Windows update component which I gladly grabbed and installed.

    After installing a functional WU client, I tried, again, to update my system. It spent a good 45 minutes searching for updates to my system. At the end, it returned a single required update - yet another version of the Windows Update client. Download, update & reboot.

    The next time I ran Windows Update it, again, spun its wheels for 45 minutes. Finally, it came up with a list of over 150 updates that I would need to install, several of which were marked as needing to be handled individually. At this point, I'm well over 4 hours into the process.

    If I'm having this sort of trouble installing and updating XP on hardware that could have originally been purchased with XP, just imagine how much trouble you'd have with something contemporary. This is why IT departments are moving away from XP; getting new systems up and running is already a nightmare. When everything goes EOL in less than a year it's just going to get worse. Even if I had known all the issues that would pop up & how to address them, I would still have been looking at 3 hours to get the base system installed before I even got around to installing any software.

    In the end, I gave up on XP and just installed Fedora. It took all of about 15 minutes to install off a USB stick, recognized all my hardware & performs like a charm on this old (ca 2007) machine.

    --
    my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  55. Re:Windows XP?? by Hartree · · Score: 1

    They generally have ways of getting the data out at a high enough speed, but it may be over a serial, parallel, GPIB or any of a whole range of proprietary data links. At worst, you can use an older ISA machine for holding the specialty cards, running the control software and then out the Ethernet card to the rest of the world.

    The problem is that the software can't be updated. You don't have access to the source and the company that made it doesn't want to. (Updating it would allow old machines to be used still and cut into selling new ones)

  56. Re:Windows XP?? by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Please tell me how you intend to virtualize a proprietary control card that you know nearly nothing about that plugs into an ISA bus and is driven with software that is often hardware dependent, and the company that made it has a disincentive to tell you about. (The standard answer is: We don't support that system anymore, but I'd be happy to connect you with sales.)

    These are usually the embedded systems in the machine and do things like running stepper motors or the like that are not terribly standard. The software talks directly to the hardware and thus timing and such is often hard coded into it. Reverse engineering and updating to modern methods is, as always, possible with massive effort, but generally not practical.

  57. Re:Why is nearly everyone defending an insecure OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Be careful kids, don't use the admin account for your daily jobs =)

  58. Moving to modern desktops? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So this is finally the Year of the Linux Desktop?

  59. well, i can tell you.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we have a grand total of 3 windows 8 machines, and they're in the hands of execs who wanted a vaio pro. when our core app vendors announce 8 support, (it'll be a while, they just got around to ALLOWING install on 7 to be supported in any way) we might start to consider allowing SOME windows8 at my company, until then, nope. we are buying win 8 licenses, and downgrading to 7. too many things at my company just don't work AT ALL under windows 8.

  60. migration away from fat clients by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    We're also just starting (this year) to migrate from XP to 7, but more importantly, migrating (wherever possible) from fat clients to web based applications. Not that web is better (in many ways it isn't) but because web apps have a better chance of being platform neutral. After observing the debacles that were Vista and Win8, the decision has been made to start migration to an environment where we are not dependent on whatever hairbrained idea Microsoft wants to foist on us. This isn't "fear", it's self-defense. I'm sure MSFT has dandy reasons for promoting a radical new OS and force consumer adoption of what they think is a cool new slate-based GUI in order to drive a wedge into that marketplace, but sorry, our business is done on computers and we can't afford to play along.

    When I started here years back, what webapps we had would only work reliably on some elderly version of IE. We now officially support Firefox, Chrome, Safari and the list of operations converting to web is growing.

    The added advantage is that the back end also tends to be platform neutral. If Microsoft wants to play games with the user interface on their server products, well, we have a solution for that too.

    In summary, it was the very act of trying to foist a radically different (and unsupportable in a large Enterprise environment) user interface that started the effort to migrate away from dependence on Windows. Good job, Microsoft. It needed to be done, and you've started it going.

    No, there's probably not going to be Linux on the desktop (sorry, geeks). But I see a lot more Macbooks and ipads in our future. Not necessarily because they're the best for the job (especially the ipad, which has been a pain to support) but because people want them, and the thought at the moment is that a more varied ecosystem serves to protect us from Microsoft's product decisions.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  61. Re: Yeah, that's what XP holdouts were waiting fo by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

    Agreed on all accounts!