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Military Drone Lost Over Lake Ontario

First time accepted submitter slipped_bit writes "An MQ-9 Reaper drone has gone down over Lake Ontario during a practice mission. The flight, being operated by the New York Air National Guard's 174th Attack Wing in Syracuse, NY, was going well for about three hours before contact with the aircraft was lost. A search was started but had to be postponed due to weather."

174 of 258 comments (clear)

  1. Let me be the First to Say... by avgjoe62 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Blame Canada!

    --

    How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?

    1. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Blame Canada!

      In the standard operating procedure, the drone recovery team was killed by missiles as part of the double tap strategy.

    2. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is that what Brian Boitano would do? Or would he drink Canada Dry?

      The interesting thing about using the drones domestically is that it will be harder to cover up these accidents the way they can overseas as classified information. Now we might see how reliable or not they are, and if they are really being used more than once before they wreck.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by DragonTHC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Honestly, who gives a shit. They were designed to be lost.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    4. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Honestly, who gives a shit. They were designed to be lost.

      Maybe it went rouge!!!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    5. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by arthurpaliden · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well it is nice to know that my EMP gun works.

    6. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by stormpunk · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wouldn't that make it a lot easier to find?

    7. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe it went rouge!!!

      Colored its cheeks, then crashed itself out of pure embarrassment?

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    8. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by myowntrueself · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe it went rouge!!!

      Colored its cheeks, then crashed itself out of pure embarrassment?

      Or working the streets, turning tricks to make money.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    9. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Honestly, who gives a shit. They were designed to be lost.

      At $17M each, you'd think they'd be designed to *not* be lost. How many $17M "designed to be lost" drones can we afford to send on one-way missions?

    10. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by cusco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anyone who gives a shit about Lake Ontario. If the thing was lost after three hours of operation it still has most of its fuel load.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    11. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Well yes but we need to see your drone hunter lenience now! Like those exist! lol.... (spelling lie-sens is hard)

    12. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by peragrin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      do you know how much a cruise missile costs? $500,000 to $2 million depending on "features and optional extras"

      $17 million is literally chump change to the us military i am almost surprised they wasted time looking at all.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    13. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by QA · · Score: 2

      On behalf of all Canadians, we apologize.

    14. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quite a few compared to manned aircraft, and remember loss rates will go down as systems mature. The loss rate for prop jobs and early jet fighters was spectacular back in The Day.

      When things with wings go down it's news, which is why you are reading it here. When tens of thousands of people die in motor vehicle accidents it's not even interesting.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    15. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by synapse7 · · Score: 1

      How many times does that go into 200+ billion?

    16. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by TWX · · Score: 1

      Maybe it went rouge!!!

      Begun, the Drone Wars have...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    17. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by BubbaDave · · Score: 1

      Having been up close to these, I'm pretty sure absolutely nothing will be salvageable.

    18. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      The more disturbing part of what you just said is that they were using it domestically at all. I'm sure they'll just call it "training", but I don't care what they want to call it.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    19. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by redneckmother · · Score: 1
      "... could save other drones ..."

      I can only imagine what fun George Carlin could have with this...

    20. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Canadian Bacon anyone?

    21. Re: Let me be the First to Say... by apc512599 · · Score: 2

      Ontario, they said, never gives up her dead When the gales of November come early!

    22. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      If so then it is breaking the law, as commercial use of drones is currently banned.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    23. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by BullInChina · · Score: 1

      Let me introduce you to the rules of dilition. I think lake Ontario will be OK.

    24. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it went rouge!!!

      Well, there you go. They should be paying attention instead of putting on makeup!

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    25. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      The middle of Lake Ontario is a bombing range. I'm sure there are many more unsavory things sitting on the bottom than a few hundred gallons of jet fuel floating around.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    26. Re: Let me be the First to Say... by bandy · · Score: 1

      But who knows "The Loss of the Antelope"?

      --
      "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
    27. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by tibman · · Score: 1

      Where would you suggest product demonstrations and end-user training should take place?

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    28. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Where would you suggest product demonstrations and end-user training should take place?

      I wouldn't. If I had to pick, though, I can think of numerous vast military-controlled test ranges that would be infinitely more appropriate than areas with US civilians in them.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    29. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by tibman · · Score: 1

      That might be hard with a remotely controlled plane that travels between 300-500 km/h. Perhaps flying over a large body of water would be safe?

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    30. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Won't somebody please think of the drones?!?

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    31. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      thank you.. now how do you spell mem-o-riz-a-t-ion...

    32. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by readacc · · Score: 1

      Well no wonder the US Government's strapped for cash then, if they consider $17 mill "chump change". Perhaps they need to readdress this attitude that most other countries would find unsustainable.

      Nah....

    33. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      I'll agree with that only if it refers to "oceans".

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    34. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I can think of numerous vast military-controlled test ranges that would be infinitely more appropriate than areas with US civilians in them.

      Though most of the US military ranges that get mentioned over on this side of the Pond are out in the desert, that doesn't mean that they're unpopulated, does it? Low-populated, but not unpopulated.

      But ... desert ranges might be fine. If you didn't need to train your pilots to (1) fly in rain and low cloud with squally winds, or (2) to conduct searches for heat signals on water surfaces (i.e. imitating marine search and rescue, even if that is just flim-flam for the sheeple). Desert ranges aren't so good for practising that sort of work.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    35. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Well yes, but do the US military want them being pulled apart and studied by the enemy?

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    36. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      I don't really care whether they get trained or not. I oppose our drone programme.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    37. Re: Let me be the First to Say... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Not good enough. Not with how they've conducted themselves with the drone program in general.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    38. Re:Let me be the First to Say... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I oppose our drone programme.

      I don't absolutely oppose oppose the use of drones. I've had friends involved in mountain rescue where the SAR helicopter has become a second incident, as an example. It's not intrinsically an evil technology (to quote the rat-poison designers who invented Zyclon-B). But for sure there are some severely dodgy uses to which it is being put (to quote the inventor of the rifled gun-barrel, metaphorically.

      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU! [bit.ly]

      Nice .sig. Slip a few daggers in there too, whydontcha?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. In other news... by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Funny

    In other news, Iran took credit for the downing of this drone as well, saying they have already begun disassembling it and that 'Murica should be very afraid. Pictures have already appeared on the internet of Iranians holding cans of Ginger Ale and eating pancakes, showing their cunning ability to blend in with the indigenous population in order to get close enough to strike at the very heart of the imperialist dogs!

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:In other news... by Mistakill · · Score: 1

      In other news, Iran took credit for the downing of this drone as well, saying they have already begun disassembling it and that 'Murica should be very afraid. Pictures have already appeared on the internet of Iranians holding cans of Ginger Ale and eating pancakes, showing their cunning ability to blend in with the indigenous population in order to get close enough to strike at the very heart of the imperialist dogs!

      I heard North Korea did it

    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're both wrong, it was the Inuit. While we were all thinking they lived in tiny little igloos, those were just entrances to their vast high-tech underground society. Nobody suspects the Inuit...

    3. Re:In other news... by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, they just executed 80 people for watching the news at 11.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    4. Re: In other news... by tleaf100 · · Score: 1

      i always suspected they where radar domes. . or atmosphere heaters.. who has the most to gain from global warming.. all those winter months indoors,whispering,planning,hatching plots.. beware of their cohorts,the fundementalist polar bears

    5. Re:In other news... by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nonsense. The drone just hit a deer. Everyone in upstate NY does it sooner or later.

    6. Re:In other news... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Hey leave my wives out of this!

    7. Re:In other news... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      In other news, Iran took credit for the downing of this drone as well, saying they have already begun disassembling it and that 'Murica should be very afraid. Pictures have already appeared on the internet of Iranians holding cans of Ginger Ale and eating pancakes, showing their cunning ability to blend in with the indigenous population in order to get close enough to strike at the very heart of the imperialist dogs!

      I heard North Korea did it

      Your thinking of their weapons of mass erection project..

    8. Re:In other news... by Waldeinburg · · Score: 1

      Citing your source it was for "minor misdemeanors, including watching videos of South Korean television programs or possessing a Bible."

    9. Re:In other news... by Poorcku · · Score: 1

      Oh dear ...

      --
      I take my children to see Madonna(..), but I never for once ever thought I was in the same business.Chris Rea.
    10. Re:In other news... by Eddy_D · · Score: 1

      So... can we talk about how the deer have evolved into being winged creatures in upstate NY then?

      --
      - I stole your sig.
  3. Bummer by quax · · Score: 1

    I get my freshwater from there.

    1. Re:Bummer by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I get my freshwater from there.

      Considering how close that is to a nuclear power station I think you might have bigger things to worry about than a military drone that went down in the lake.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    2. Re:Bummer by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2

      Never mind the other one across the lake just east of Toronto that used to be the worlds largest nuclear powered generating station. But that one is a CANDU reactor, far less likely to melt down. BTW, the largest nuclear generating station in the world also uses CANDU reactors and is located a little northwest of Toronto.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    3. Re:Bummer by Quasimodem · · Score: 1

      Quit bellyaching, you need a little roughage.

    4. Re:Bummer by quax · · Score: 1

      Not too worried about our CANDU reactors. They ever so often spell some tritium but given the seize of the lake not really too much of a concern.

    5. Re:Bummer by istartedi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not to freak you out but.... 1. Fish defecation. 2. Aquatic bird defecation. 3. Guys on boats in the middle, nobody is looking. 4. Bilge. 5. Poorly maintained outboard motors. 6. Probably some truly horrendous stuff that didn't come to mind in the minute I took to type this while thinking about it.

      On your side, as they say, "The solution to pollution is dilution".

      If you like, you may think of your tap water as homeopathic drone.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    6. Re:Bummer by quax · · Score: 2

      Yes, but what if they put some really icky radar swallowing paint on their drone? Since all the military tech is top secret I cannot know the dreck that it may contain. I prefer the familiar horrors.

    7. Re:Bummer by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Yes, but what if they put some really icky radar swallowing paint on their drone?

      Good point. I hope that paint isn't water soluble. It could dissolve into the lake and make it disappear.

    8. Re:Bummer by quax · · Score: 1

      Exactly! Let's be open minded here.

    9. Re:Bummer by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      Your sig... but what about for moderate purposes, or relaxed purposes, is "whom" a word then?

      Did I just fall for your troll?

    10. Re:Bummer by bandy · · Score: 1

      7. Corpses, human and otherwise.

      --
      "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
    11. Re:Bummer by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Considering how close that is to a nuclear power station I think you might have bigger things to worry about than a military drone that went down in the lake.

      Well, no. A possibly broken container full of jet fuel poses a far greater danger than a nuclear power station. However, fearmongering like yours poses still more risk to any particular person and humanity as a whole than both combined, since it keeps us tied to fossile fuels with all the problems with shortages and enviromental damage that implies.

      You are "a bigger thing to worry about". How's it feel to be a threat to humanity?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    12. Re:Bummer by mirix · · Score: 1

      Most of our heavy industry and manufacturing was centered around the great lakes. From the dawn of manufacturing they had dumped some pretty nasty effluent, raw, into the lakes. They didn't even slow down until things like the EPA came about, in the '70s.

      Some of the tributaries even caught on fire, FFS. That might be a sign you're doing it wrong, when the river catches on fire. Multiple times, no less!

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    13. Re:Bummer by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      Once I was walking on the shore and found a brass tag stamped "US War Dept OSS office of Chemical Warfare" washed up on the beach... Guess what the DoD must have sunken out there during WW2?

      --
      C|N>K
  4. standard operating procedure by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    practice/fail/practice/fail...the scientific method in action.

    1. Re:standard operating procedure by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 2

      One would usually want to get one's crashing out of the way with small styrofoam remote controlled airplanes before we fail with big expensive remote controlled airplanes.

  5. Forgive My Ignorance by FrankDrebin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But why does a state national guard have an attack wing?

    --
    Anybody want a peanut?
    1. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by icebike · · Score: 1

      They used to fly F16s.
      Its not unusual for ANG wings be have attack capabilities.

      Especially near those Dreaded Canadians.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Informative

      Guard units have a nicely dovetailed dual role. Most of the time they act as reserve squadrons for the Air Force, and can be deployed overseas. The rest of the time, their ground organizational structure, which ordinarily keeps their aircraft and crews ready to go, can be mobilized on a moment's notice to deal with local disasters.

    3. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The National Guard is simultaneously both a state militia and federal reserve force, with Uncle Sam getting priortiy. For all intents and purposes they are Air Force whenever the Pentagon wants them to be.

    4. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Informative

      Clearly they're on to our plan to invade the US and reclaim Maine and the Alaska panhandle....

    5. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      Syracuse depends on Canadians to come down to their mall for VAT avoidance spending trips.

    6. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It also serves to remind people of the idea that the U.S.A. is a group of united states. The Guard units really answer to the Governors and are each states' mini-armed forces, even if they are occasionally assigned to work with the federal armed forces.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    7. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by formfeed · · Score: 2

      Clearly they're on to our plan to invade the US and reclaim Maine and the Alaska panhandle....

      What about places outside Maine or Alaska?
      Do you take petitions? Is there a sign-up sheet?

    8. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      It also serves to remind people of the idea that the U.S.A. is a group of united states. The Guard units really answer to the Governors and are each states' mini-armed forces, even if they are occasionally assigned to work with the federal armed forces.

      And the U.K. is a group of united kingdoms. Fuck, I hope Scotland and Wales get their own mini-armed forces! Northern Ireland already kind of does if you count the paramilitaries!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    9. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      ANG actually often function as Air Force reserve units. The ones along the boarder with Canada used to specialize in air defense aka interceptor missions back in when the US actually cared about defending it's air space but more than a few have been attack units for a long time. Just think of them as reserve units.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      No way! We're first!

      We want to be invaded.

      ********
      Alaskans for Canada.
      ********

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by cusco · · Score: 1

      I think the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is first on the list already. They periodically attempt to secede from either the US or from Michigan.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    12. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by Xest · · Score: 2

      Where else do you propose your drone pilots learn to fly the drones? Over some other nation's heads?

      They're your drones, stick to learning to fly (and crash) them over your own territory thanks.

    13. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      The Guard units really answer to the Governors

      Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy disagree.

      Many (but not all) states do continue to maintain their own "state guard" militias, over which the federal government has only limited constitutional control over. But the Pentagon generally has little use for "soldiers" they aren't even allowed to train, let alone appoint commanding officers for. The National Guard is a federal construct designed specifically to get around those limitations, by creating federal units with federal money that the states can maybe sometimes borrow if Uncle Sam isn't currently using them perhaps.

    14. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      British Army regiments have individual identities, with many of them identifying with home areas around the UK, so in essence Scotland and Wales do have their own armies as there are Scottish and Welsh regiments.

    15. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      The Guard units really answer to the Governors and are each states' mini-armed forces, even if they are occasionally assigned to work with the federal armed forces.

      That hasn't been true for years. Over the past century the Guard has increasingly been part of the regular forces and under Federal control.

    16. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by BubbaDave · · Score: 1

      The pilot training for learning how to fly it is done elsewhere.

      After the pilots are qualified to fly, they come here to learn how to use it as a surveillance/weapons platform.

    17. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by Lord+Lemur · · Score: 1

      "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

      The National Guard being a well regulated Militia, they get to have what ever arms they want/can afford.

    18. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by operagost · · Score: 1

      Actually, it serves to remind me that they're not militias, or the FEDERAL government would not be able to draft them as the militias answer FIRST to the states and the people.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    19. Re:Forgive My Ignorance by operagost · · Score: 1

      They're not a militia, because they can be usurped by the federal government-- thus leaving a state insecure and unfree-- and the soldiers do not get to keep and bear their arms by their own responsibility.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  6. So what by cachimaster · · Score: 1, Funny

    15 million dollars in equipment was lost. What's the big deal? I'm sure they spend that much in air-conditioning per day.

    1. Re:So what by NettiWelho · · Score: 1

      15 million dollars in equipment was lost. What's the big deal? I'm sure they spend that much in air-conditioning per day.

      This time it was unintentional.

    2. Re:So what by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Not in Syracuse they don't.

    3. Re:So what by Biff+Stu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly my thought. If an F-22 went down over Lake Ontario on a training mission, we would have a dead pilot, and lost $150 million aircraft, which can't be replaced. The F-22 loss might have been noted on CNN, but certainly wouldn't have been /. worthy. So, here we lost a $12.5 million aircraft, which can be replaced, and nobody dies. Somehow, I doubt that the submitter and the /. editors are pro-drone, but I see this story and think that, to the extent that I actually give a shit, it makes an excellent argument for drones.

  7. Time for 007 by hamster_nz · · Score: 2

    Call James Bond as an Evil Cat-Patting Genius has taken control of it. We must recover it before they get our launch codes!

    Oh, so this isn't the plot for a movie?

  8. Re:What was the cost by icebike · · Score: 1

    How much was the Drone worth?

    Apparently not enough, because you didn't even feel it was worth a single click on the only link in the story.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  9. This one only "crashed" by Press2ToContinue · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Just an accident. And when the first drone "accidentally fires" on a US citizen... what then?

    --
    Sent from my ENIAC
    1. Re:This one only "crashed" by tjb6 · · Score: 1

      Speaking as a non US citizen, when the first drone "accidentally fires" on a non-US citizen ???

      Surely you are not implying that the rest of the world are somehow second class human beings?
      The ethics of the use of deadly force should be invariant across borders, but this is not seen by many governments.

    2. Re:This one only "crashed" by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      I guess you'd be the first to take up arms against the goverment.

      Only if he's assigned to pick up the pieces and put them in the body bags. But seriously, I don't think they're allowed to be armed when used in America except maybe for live fire exercises over a practice range.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    3. Re:This one only "crashed" by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      1. Do you know how rarely aircraft fly with live air to ground ordinance in US air space? Live fire practice is actually pretty rare and the bad PR of an F-16 fully loaded with bombs crashing into a shopping mall is very hight.
      2. Why is it any more likely to happen with a drone than a manned aircraft and the federal government has had them for a century now.
      3, You do know that it is man at the controls when a drone fires correct? Just like in a manned attack aircraft.
      So runaway fear is alive and well on slashdot.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    4. Re:This one only "crashed" by eWarz · · Score: 1

      Heh...i'll take this a step further (just for the hell of it.) In America, if the CIA, FBI, Army, Navy, etc. blows you to bits, your family sues the government for billions. Illegal immigrants have no similar protections and anyone else is a gray area. Compare that to china, if you look at the chinese miliary the wrong way, you are probably going to die.

    5. Re:This one only "crashed" by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      ...I don't think they're allowed to be armed when used in America except maybe for live fire exercises over a practice range.

      You mean like the government isn't allowed to be monitoring/storing/analyzing all domestic US civilian data and communications?

      They'll do it anyways. Who's going to stop them?

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    6. Re:This one only "crashed" by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      they've been used for it on purpose.. not reportedly on american soil but really does that make any difference? enemies of the state don't get arrest attempts now, just blown away along with whoever happens to be nearby.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:This one only "crashed" by tragedy · · Score: 1

      1. Do you know how rarely aircraft fly with live air to ground ordinance in US air space?

      No. Mostly because that sort of thing would be kept a military secret. We know more about what sort of things happened in the past, from declassified records. The 1961 Goldsboro NC loss of two 2.5 Megaton nukes springs to mind. At least one of them had all but one of its safety mechanisms triggered and nearly detonated, which would have killed everything in a 17 mile radius. The core of one of the stages of one of the bombs is still buried deep below the site.

      So, there's at least a little historical precedent to be a little concerned about this sort of thing.

    8. Re:This one only "crashed" by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually no. That was back in 1961 when SAC flew airborne alerts and probably long before you where born. You do not think people learn? Besides I was replying to the implication that the a drone would be targeted at someone in the US.
      As to worry? The weapons that drones carry at least to day are small compared to what manned aircraft carry. On a good note the US and USSR have an agreement to not fly nukes in their warplanes in time of peace. That is one of the reason for the freak out when a B52 flew with cruise missiles from Barksdale to Minot. The warheads where supposed to be removed but where not. That kind of error is worrisome at best.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    9. Re:This one only "crashed" by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that's a good reason why they don't actually do such things often these days.

      1961 was in the middle of the Cold War. The armed B-52 was not in the air for practice - it was on an actual mission, waiting for the Soviets to strike first before it'd fly off to strike Soviet targets. Since there are no enemies today that have the Soviet's first-strike capability that we feared so much, there's no real need to keep live weapons in the air.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    10. Re:This one only "crashed" by BubbaDave · · Score: 1

      1. Do you know how rarely aircraft fly with live air to ground ordinance in US air space? Live fire practice is actually pretty rare and the bad PR of an F-16 fully loaded with bombs crashing into a shopping mall is very hight.

      Actually, they do it all the time in the restricted airspace ranges.
      The live-fire range at Ft. Drum is/was used by F-16s, A-10s, B-52s, Reapers, etc etc.

      When the F16s flew out of Syracuse they would fly to Ft. Drum and load live armaments there.

    11. Re:This one only "crashed" by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      Just an accident. And when the first drone "accidentally fires" on a US citizen... what then?

      Works as intended.

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    12. Re:This one only "crashed" by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      No.
      I am not worried about the mil doing an attack on US citizens.
      I am not that worried about a crash with nukes. They have much better safety systems than they had in 1961 and they are not supposed to fly them at all.
      I am more worried about the lack leadership in the nuclear forces. I love how people like pretend the military is not under the control of the civilian government. The President is Commander and Chief so the buck stops their and always does. That is why MacArthur got the boot.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    13. Re:This one only "crashed" by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Just an accident. And when the first drone "accidentally fires" on a US citizen... what then?

      Nothing.

      Why? Do you expect the same people who did nothing when they got the Snowden revelations, and the Wikileaks revelations, and the Patriot Act, and Guantanamo Bay, and Iraq War, and and and - do you think these people will suddenly do something? No, there'll be some noise on the Internet, it will die down, and the assasinations will continue with increasing frequency until they've become the new norm. Then it's onward to the next step.

      If Osama indeed hated your freedom, then he won.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    14. Re:This one only "crashed" by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually that bomb them was a pretty popular idea at the time. We had spent all this money on nukes so why not use them. Russia.USSR didn't have anyway to get a nuke to the US at that time. Sure they could have possibly nuked Europe and Japan but would they trade bombing Europe for the US bombing Russia/USSR? Not likely. What he got the boot for was publicly fighting the civilian authority over policy. AKA the war in Korea. LeMay also didn't like the strategy in Korea but he kept his mouth shut.
      The Military is under citizen control. You elect the people that tell the military what to do. The president is the commander and chief. If the President says do x a general can not then do y without getting court marshaled.
      "Most citizen opposed it, but the president and CIA were for it." Umm no. You did not get into a less than 50% approval rating until more than two years into the war. Even then the approval for the war or lack of approval does not equate directly to approval for a unilateral withdrawal.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    15. Re:This one only "crashed" by tragedy · · Score: 1

      On a good note the US and USSR have an agreement to not fly nukes in their warplanes in time of peace. That is one of the reason for the freak out when a B52 flew with cruise missiles from Barksdale to Minot.

      See, I see incidents like that and have a hard time seeing more than two possibilities:
      A. They knew perfectly well they were flying nuclear armed cruise missiles, but lied about it being an accident to cover themselves when the story got out.
      B. They didn't know and simply lost control of some nuclear weapons.

      Neither A nor B are very comforting.

    16. Re:This one only "crashed" by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Since there are no enemies today that have the Soviet's first-strike capability that we feared so much, there's no real need to keep live weapons in the air.

      Except, say Russia, perhaps. You can point out that you said "enemies", but then I can point out that the US and Russia were never really officially enemies either. Also, I never said that they were in the air for practice.

  10. MQ-9 is ALIVE! by the_skywise · · Score: 2

    (With apologies to Johnny Five...)

    1. Re:MQ-9 is ALIVE! by BigGez · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't it be "MQ-9 is FINE!"?

    2. Re:MQ-9 is ALIVE! by skogs · · Score: 1

      Major Metropolis!

      --
      Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
  11. Re:Finder's keepers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So let me see here. Finder's use an apostrophe, but keepers doesn't? Loser's, again, you felt needed an apostrophe, but you got cheap again for weepers?

  12. Rob Ford shot it down with a stream of bile by sandbagger · · Score: 4, Funny

    Newsflash on CBC.

    --
    ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
  13. So, those drone-hunting licenses finally paid off by crepe-boy · · Score: 5, Funny
  14. Voluntary sacrifice by singlevalley · · Score: 1

    Maybe like the robot that 'terminated' itself, the drone also felt guilty about all the spying it was being asked to do, saw a chance, and plunged into the lake.

  15. Re:Finder's keepers! by z0idberg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Loses Reapers.

  16. Lets have some fun picking this apart. by s.petry · · Score: 4, Informative

    The drone was attached to the New York Air National Guard’s 174th Fighter Wing – the first fighter squadron to be converted from piloted F-16s to an all-drone force.

    Wait, what? An F-16 capable of carrying near 18,000 lbs of weapons and flying at mach 2+ is replaced by a drone flying at 240Mph carrying 3800lbs? Well, I'll be danged if someone in the DOD should not be fired for that decision. I could see it if they replace a squadron of A-10s with hundreds of these for close air support, but F-16s?

    There have been numerous previous crashes of Reaper drones. Drones are expected to see much wider civilian use in the United States when the first federal permits are issued, which is expected in 2015, and regulators are keenly examining such crashes as they develop safety guidelines. The international market for drones is also expanding.

    Okay, so they don't have a good safety record and we accept that since it's Defense. I'm good with this, but then they state...

    “I have quite a bit of confidence in the safety of the airplane,” he said. “If you compare it to other platforms or aircraft that are flown by the Air Force You’ll see that it’s a much safer platform.”

    So they have a higher crash record than any manned platform, no feedback for what is going wrong, yet somehow they are a "safer platform"? I guess that depends on what you are keeping safe. Pilots, okay. Tax money? Nope. Our borders? Nope, not that either.

    As long as they hype the drones, people ignore why we have those for "Defending our borders". The ANG role is the last line of defense against an invading air-force. Reapers and Predators can't shoot down a MIG or SU of any type. Seems like a huge conflict of interest to man the ANG with these.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Are you really concerned about an invasion of the US mainland that will entail MIGs? You realize the cold war ended 25 years ago right?

      You also realize the cost of a drone verse the cost of an F-16 that will never be deployed? I think your complaints about tax dollars are a little skewed.

    2. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      If it can replace one brave guy in the cockpit with one coward in a bunker I'm sure the USA will be ALL for it.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    3. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? An F-16 capable of carrying near 18,000 lbs of weapons and flying at mach 2+ is replaced by a drone flying at 240Mph carrying 3800lbs?

      The missions of the F-16 aircraft are not being replaced by MQ-9s. The mission of the air wing is changing from flying F-16s to flying MQ-9s. Wings are reassigned aircraft type all the time depending on the needs of the military. The 103d of the CT ANG used to fly A-10s, now they fly C-21s and C-130s. Do you think they're flying unarmed Learjets and cargo jets on close air support missions now? Obviously not. There are simply enough F-16s in other active duty and ANG units to that they don't need the 174th flying them anymore. They do need more UAVs.

    4. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      define brave

      The smallest part of 'brave' which applies in this instance is 'willingly putting yourself in harms way' which arguably applies to an F16 pilot. The drone jockey killing people in a far off land while sitting in a nice secure bunker is the very antithesis.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    5. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? An F-16 capable of carrying near 18,000 lbs of weapons and flying at mach 2+ is replaced by a drone flying at 240Mph carrying 3800lbs?

      It wouldn't be so bad if the Reaper were actually cheaper than an F-16. It looks like it's presently more expensive than some models of F-16, although the price may come down over time. You would think someone would have just come up with a remote control module for the F-16.

    6. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by qwijibo · · Score: 1

      It's not "brave" in the dictionary or traditional sense of the word. The guys in the bunkers are more of a "Facebook brave", like the people who have the balls to post private messages critical of the current administration or any of its criminal policies.

    7. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by echucker · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? An F-16 capable of carrying near 18,000 lbs of weapons and flying at mach 2+ is replaced by a drone flying at 240Mph carrying 3800lbs? Well, I'll be danged if someone in the DOD should not be fired for that decision. I could see it if they replace a squadron of A-10s with hundreds of these for close air support, but F-16s?

      And the true irony here is that The Boys from Syracuse used to be an A-10 unit before they went to F-16s. And what did they do with them when they went to the Gulf back in 1990? They hung gun pods underneath them.

    8. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      The drone pilots are the anonymous cowards of modern warfare. The forum cancer, the shitposters.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    9. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, you're looking at the price of a set of four Reapers, and comparing it to what a F-16 used to cost back in 1998.

      Don't feel bad; professional journalists make this mistake almost every damn time they talk about the thing in an article.

    10. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by s.petry · · Score: 1

      The false dilemma you present does not change my point. An invading force requiring drones in response is just as likely as an invading force requiring F-16s.

      As someone below sagely pointed out, would it not make sense to close the base if we are no longer under such threats? I have no issues with that path if the DOD deems us safe enough to do so. I'm simply questioning the obvious, since the gear being run does not match the role of the ANG.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    11. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by Gryle · · Score: 1

      I'm not certain if I'm feeding a troll or not but considering the outrage of sectors of US civilians* whenever US service personnel die, certainly the US military is all for protecting personnel in such a manner. I'm not certain what you think about military leadership but they aren't exactly raring to just run their into a combat meat-grinder like some kind of dark sacrifice (conspiracy theories not withstanding). It's also a good deal cheaper to train a drone operator than a fighter pilot. So yes, I would imagine that replacing a guy in a cockpit with a guy in a bunker is an attractive option for military brass.

      Extending your line of thought, do you consider any US citizen who hasn't joined a police force, fire-fighting force, or military branch a coward? After all, said individuals aren't exposing themselves to danger when other people are. That must make all of those people cowards right? And please don't reply that you're against war because A) most military personnel would rather stay home with their families instead of being separated by an ocean for months at a time and B) that's moving the goalposts. This discussion specifically pertains to actions in a war theater.

      *It's died down quite a bit in recent years, but I remember when the news organizations would run weekly death tolls of US service personnel.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    12. Re:Lets have some fun picking this apart. by tragedy · · Score: 1

      The plane isn't the only cost. Pilots are rather expensive too.

      Absolutely true. Of course, if they converted an F-16 to a drone rather than starting from the ground up, they wouldn't have to worry about losing a pilot. As for the sensor suite, etc. for remote control, there would be an entire cockpit to install one.

      Don't get me wrong, I certainly think there's a place for both kinds of planes. I was just really surprised to find costs were so similar between the two planes. I was expecting that I was going to find out that you could get a small fleet of reapers for the cost of one F-16, I was just very surprised by what I found out.

  17. Ogopogo by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    Flying in low over the lake, the last image captured was a tentacle reaching up .....

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Ogopogo by rueger · · Score: 1

      Wrong lake. Also, Ogopogo doesn't have tentacles.

      Yeah, I grew up in Ogopogo's back yard and probably waterskiied over him a thousand times.

  18. Re:Finder's keepers! by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Why don't you go back to usenet where you belong?

  19. Re:Finder's keepers! by camperdave · · Score: 1

    It's painfully obvious that he meant the keepers belonging to Finder, and the weepers belonging to Loser. So Finder has several goalies, or "keepers", and Loser cries a lot.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  20. They found it! by camperdave · · Score: 1

    The drone was attached to the New York Air National Guard’s 174th Fighter Wing

    They found it. Apparently it got stuck to one of the fighters.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  21. Search called off due to weather by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

    Having lived in Syracuse I'd say forget searching any time other than July and August.

    Damn worst weather in the US.

    1. Re:Search called off due to weather by MooseDontBounce · · Score: 1

      As a person that lives in the Syracuse area I would be upset with that statement if only it wasn't true.

  22. Geography much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Fort Drum is in Syracuse the same way that Bethlehem PA is in NYC.

    Idiots.

  23. Re:can't anyone English anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Only if you live in Great Britain, or some parts of the Commonwealth. In 'Merica "practice" is both noun and verb. The meaning is determined by the context.
      http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/practice_practise.htm

  24. Riiiight by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 1

    Oh sure, a "practice" mission.

  25. The Wreck of the MQ-9 Reaper Drone by Nova+Express · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ontario, it is known
    Never gives up a drone
    When the winds of November come early

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  26. Saving the base. by westlake · · Score: 1

    Wait, what? An F-16 capable of carrying near 18,000 lbs of weapons and flying at mach 2+ is replaced by a drone flying at 240Mph carrying 3800lbs? Well, I'll be danged if someone in the DOD should not be fired for that decision.

    The usual fate of an upstate New York air base is to be closed or re-purposed. Keeping F-16s and their pilots at operational readiness is expensive --- and it is an expense that is increasingly hard to justify.

    1. Re:Saving the base. by s.petry · · Score: 1

      I can see closing the ANG base and reducing the staff if we deem it's no longer worth having such a big Air National Guard. No complaint here. Manning the ANG with drones simply makes no sense in their given role. Each Reaper is actually 4 drones and C&C gear at close to a 60million dollar price tag. They have not saved that much money to convert, and the gear simply does not match with what they are supposed to be doing.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  27. Re:Oh Jeeze by Deadstick · · Score: 2

    Yes, it does. The 174th has been deployed in the Persian Gulf and Iraq, among other places.

  28. Never underestimate... by Morpeth · · Score: 1

    ... the power of poutine !!!

    --

    'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
  29. Re:Finder's keepers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think you meant:
    Finders keepers!

    Loosers Reapers

  30. Re:can't anyone English anymore by weilawei · · Score: 1

    This is an American website. Nice try.

  31. I told them and I told them... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    ...the hover time locked to a bedroom window with all the cameras running at max bandwidth is LIMITED.

    Jeez, you just can't get good drone drivers these days.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  32. Calling Mr. Cold Fjord ... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    oh, don't say that, you will force cold fjord to come with some lie to justify these crimes

    If it does not involve Edward Snowden Cold Fjord isn't interested

    Right, Mr. Cold Fjord ?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Calling Mr. Cold Fjord ... by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I have a long posting history on Slashdot that predates Edward Snowden's "fame" by at least 9 years. Your post is nonsense.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  33. Re:Needs better software by JustOK · · Score: 1

    All Canadian penguins are in Pittsburgh

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  34. Self-aware? by not_surt · · Score: 1

    The end of man has to start somewhere.

  35. I think there's something wrong... by RedBear · · Score: 1

    I think there's something wrong... with my head.

    I read the tag as "SuperMangoTit" and was going to look it up on KnowYourMeme.com.

    Don't worry, I figured it out before it went that far.

    Side note: I like the way other sites use underscores to replace spaces in tags. Makes tags much more readable.

    1. Re:I think there's something wrong... by Smask · · Score: 1

      You're not alone in reading the tag as Super Mango Tit

  36. I guess they'll have to postpone by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    I guess they'll have to postpone the invasion of Canada.

  37. we need your help! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    we better start posting fliers on telephone poles now.

    Have you seen this drone?
    __________________
    | IMAGE REDACTED |
    |__________________|

    responds to "death from above"

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  38. Re:can't anyone English anymore by Xest · · Score: 1

    Even here in the UK I've never seen use of the word "practise", ever.

    So it's obviously a form of the word that's basically died a death. Literally everyone just uses the word "practice" in both cases.

    There's no point being pedantic about a language rule that no one on Earth gives a shit about because it offers exactly zero benefit to society.

    99.9999% of the population in the UK would think "LOL he's misspelt practice" rather than "Oh, look at his awesome and correct usage of practice/practise".

    And that's okay. Because languages evolve.

  39. Craigslist by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    For sale: Used, slightly wet MQ-9 reaper drone, responds to the name Fido.

  40. Super Mango Tit by Cyfun · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one wondering what the tag Super Mango Tit means?

    --
    In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
  41. Re:And then... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

    We haven't forgot 1812 and are bidding our time until we can invade and destroy you o Canada... and with great justice because we didn't start it!

  42. Re:Needs better software by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

    ...Unless the reason it lost communication was because of hardware failure, in which case such software would do nothing.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  43. now the genius of our birch bark by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    anti-aircraft canoes will be known around the world. Moo haa haa haa.

  44. No ELT? by rotorbudd · · Score: 1

    On these things?

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it, but artillery is addressed to " Whom It May concern"
  45. Re:And thus, the mission... by Lord+Lemur · · Score: 1

    Canada politely surrendered anyway a few hours later.

  46. proof that drones are superior by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    At least we didn't lose a red-blooded patriot pilot.
    Don't Fear for the Reaper.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  47. Re:And then... by rich_hudds · · Score: 1

    We haven't forgot 1812

    I've noticed that. Hardly anyone in the UK has heard of that war.

    I think it's because we were still in the middle of a much bigger war with the Frogs when it happened.

  48. NSA Report: Reason for Lost Drone by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    Taliban Suicide Ducks, and Alcida Terrorist Geese.

    Am I the only one that feels uncomfortable about flying drone strikes into Canada?

  49. Re:And thus, the mission... by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

    ...to invade Canada was aborted....

    -m

    Aborted.... right! The drone never even saw the stealth snowmobile.

    --

    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
  50. Carrier Command flashback by Saffaya · · Score: 1

    Manta 1 - Telemetry Weak
    Manta 1 - Telemetry Lost

  51. Time to go shopping on EBAY by badeMan · · Score: 1

    In other news, MQ-9 Reaper parts are now available on EBAY, free shipping to US and Canada destinations.

  52. Re:We're on it by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

    Rush, is that you?

  53. So close except for the Osama part by Press2ToContinue · · Score: 1

    If you haven't seen Loose Change and In Plane Sight on youtube you might want to watch them.

    --
    Sent from my ENIAC
  54. Please... by Obstin8 · · Score: 1

    Let it be aimed at Rob Ford!

  55. free for all! by ender89 · · Score: 1

    In other news, there's a free drone in/on lake ontario! finders keepers!