Dial 00000000 To Blow Up the World

Charliemopps writes "For 20 years the password for the U.S. nuclear arsenal was '00000000.' Kennedy instituted a security system on all nuclear warheads to prevent them from being armed by someone unauthorized. It was called PAL, and promised to secure the entire US arsenal around the world. Unfortunately for Kennedy (and I guess, the whole world) U.S. military leadership was more concerned about delaying a launch than securing Armageddon. They technically obeyed the order but then set the password to 8 Zeros, or '00000000'."

Comments

Illusion shattered

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

You mean to tell me, when WOPR was busy looking for the launch code in Wargames, it was all a bunch of crap?

Re:Illusion shattered

[bruce_the_loon]

Nah, WOPR was more intelligent than the average general and therefore decided the code wasn't 00000000 because that would be stupid.

How often would you try 00000 as the PIN for someone's bank card?

Re:Illusion shattered

[DarkOx]

Never, because bank card PINs are usually 4-digits

Re:Illusion shattered

[DNS-and-BIND]

00000000 is just as random as any other code. My grandfather used to play 1-2-3-4-5-6 in the lottery, and when someone would point out that that number would never come up, he'd gleefully educate that person on probability.

Besides, the code that WOPR was trying to crack was a 12-digit alphanumeric string of the style JPE-1704-TKS.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

bank card PINs are usually 4-digits

Grammar nazi wants to say that that should be "4 digits". If you would instead say "it has a 4-digit pin", then you would use the dash.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Off-topic, but note that playing an easily remembered set of numbers (not just 1-2-3-4-5-6, any set of numbers that you'll recognize) is bad for several reasons. One reason is that numbers which are special to you have a high probability of being special to someone else. The expected result of playing those numbers in a lottery is therefore lower than for other numbers. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of smartasses like your grandfather with whom he would have had to split the jackpot in case those numbers came up. Another important reason is that, however unlikely it is to have your special numbers come up, it is not impossible. When they do come up and just that time you didn't play, you'll kick your own arse for the rest of your life. This risk is a strong motivation to keep playing, which can lead to gambling addiction. So to lower your risk of getting addicted to gambling, don't ever bet on the same numbers.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

00000000 is just as random as any other code. My grandfather used to play 1-2-3-4-5-6 in the lottery, and when someone would point out that that number would never come up, he'd gleefully educate that person on probability.

A pity that those numbers never came; then he and thousands of other "I understand probability" blowhards might have actually learned something. The object in the lottery is not just to pick the winning numbers, but also to share the jackpot with as few others as possible. 1-2-3-4-5-6 is, in fact, the worst possible choice.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Naw. This was before WOPR, when Wheatley was in charge.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont think betting on the same numbers all the time causes gambling addiction, it IS gambling addiction. Its the result of being a compulsive gambler. (also the result of not being so hot at maths)

Re:Illusion shattered

[mrclisdue]

...as few others as possible. 1-2-3-4-5-6 is, in fact, the worst possible choice...

That's why I always play 6-5-4-3-2-1, instead.

I'm gonna be rich! Rich! Rich!!!!

suckers,

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Punctuation Nazi wants to say that that is a hyphen. Even on systems supporting various typographical dashes (slashdot doesn't), a hyphen would be used for "4-digit" or "four-digit".

But you are right in that no hyphen or dash should have been used by the GP.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

If those numbers had come up, they would not have learned anything. They all would have said "see, I told you they're just as likely". You'd have pointed out that they could have won more if they had chosen different numbers, and they would have pointed out that no, they wouldn't have, because then they would not have won at all.

If you play the lottery, play the lottery even though you understand probability, not because you understand probability.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've already chosen "your" numbers, it's too late to heed this advice. You can still stop playing, but you've created an obstacle to stopping by choosing a set of numbers that you'll recognize when they come up. Besides, the important aspects of a lottery are explained by economics (particularly the non-linear value of money), not math.

Re:Illusion shattered

[masonc]

"00000000 is just as random as any other code"
Except that you can lean on the button pad and enter it by mistake. Bye Bye world.

Re:Illusion shattered

[jbolden]

00000000 is highly non random. It is just as likely as any other number to be guessed randomly, but substantially more likely to be guessed non-randomly.

Your grandfather at least was going against a random number generator. A person guessing nuclear codes is not constrained to guessing randomly.

Re:Illusion shattered

[DarkOx]

Where your Granpa's lottery ticket is concerned his correct or should be if the lotto is truly random.

Humans picking numbers though are not good sources of random. People tend to do things like choose 0000000, 1111111, 12345..., because they are easy to remember. They also often pick numbers such that the first pairs of digits might represent a valid date because its their dogs birthday or whatever. Knowing this means you try the list of common pattern first (dictionary), then you try the smaller key space of what might be date codes (optimized brute force). Finally you try other numbers. That is if your are trying to guess a value chosen by someone as their pass code.

Actually in the case of the lottery you are probably better off picking something where the first digits cannot represent a date because its just as likely that value will be selected as the winner but far less likely you will have to share the prize because others don't pick those numbers.

If I was some super spy trying to guess US nuclear launch codes for some reason, with no information to go on its very likely I might try something like all zeros, starting with zero, one or something else would likely be determined by how the keypad was arranged.

A properly designed system would not have allowed humans to select the code. A decent PRNG or actual natural random source should have picked a value and forced the operators to simply memorize it.
   

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

"I understand probability" blowhards might have actually learned something

Like how the probability of winning is so low they are better off not playing?

Re:Illusion shattered

[nospam007]

"If those numbers had come up, they would not have learned anything. "

They would have learned that another 3,945,432 idiots were playing 1,2,3,4,5,6.

Re:Illusion shattered

[yndrd1984]

""00000000 is just as random as any other code""
"Except that you can lean on the button pad and enter it by mistake. Bye Bye world."
Or a short develops - in a button that's used underground or on a submarine.

Re: Illusion shattered

[StripedCow]

But what if the prng generates a code with all zeros?

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you reject it and generate another one. If you eliminate all numbers from a dictionary of "special" numbers (repetitions, numbers with cultural significance, etc.), you only reduce the key space by a relatively small amount. The resulting code will still have sufficient entropy, but you're not vulnerable to a dictionary attack.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Culture20]

The object in the lottery is not just to pick the winning numbers, but also to share the jackpot with as few others as possible. 1-2-3-4-5-6 is, in fact, the worst possible choice.

That's why you buy 100,000 tickets marked 1-2-3-4-5-6 every lottery. When it finally pays out, you'll get half of the winnings.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need economics. You just need to know that the expected value (grand prize * probability of winning) is smaller than the price of a lottery ticket.

Re:Illusion shattered

[John Allsup]

The best example to be aware of in the UK Lotto, referred to here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/240734.stm

"The remarkable draw on 14 November 1995 when 133 tickets shared the £16 million jackpot prize is a clear example of the effects the team had deduced.

The winning numbers were 7, 17, 23, 32, 38, 42 and 48, all of which lie in central columns of the ticket, and the players won only £120,000 each. The average number of jackpot winners is five and the average amount won is £2 million."

This illustrates the difference picking common combinations can make.  Once a presenter told you how much you'd win if you did the 1-2-3-4-5-6 thing: only a few thousand!  (While only a small minority have this 'clever' thought, it's enough to elevate the number of entries with 1-2-3-4-5-6 to significantly more than a typical combination.)

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Road-house!

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

"00000000" could be random, but is highly unlikely. More than likely it was cased by a bias in the system.

Re:Illusion shattered

[hey!]

This is an example of "begging the question". "Randomness" is not a property of a number, it is a property of a sequence.

This sounds like splitting hairs, but it actually makes a lot of confusing things clearer if instead of asking "Is this number random?" you ask "Was this number produced by a process that generates a random sequence?"

Lets take the example of a combination. "0000000" is just as random as "3115435", but "0000000" was generated by a process which spits out easily keyed-in, easy-for-humans-to-remember numbers. In other words it's generated by a process that is biased towards spitting out numbers like "0000000" and "1234567".

Re: Illusion shattered

[John Allsup]

If you run a prng and reject any combination with less than 4 distinct digits, you're likely to have a combination in a small number of attempts, most usually 1.  Calculate the likelihood of a prng producing ten combinations in a row that have less than 4 distinct digits.  (For an 8 digit code it's say, 1/10000 or about that, and decreases by a factor of sqrt(10) for each additional digit, something like that).

A program of the form
int[] f() {
  int[] a;
  do {
     a = ArrayOfRandomInts(lessthan=10,count=8);
  } while(DistinctDigitCount(a,lessthan=4);
  return a;
}

is not guaranteed to halt in any given finite time, but will with probability rapidly approaching 1 as the time limit increases.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

It is correct that the expected value is less than the price of the ticket, but that's not all there is to say about games of chance. (1000000*value($1) is not equal value($1000000) under all circumstances)

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, this is just to let you know TT'ing your font doesn't make you look oldschool, just somewhat retarded.

Re:Illusion shattered

[kav2k]

Depends.. Here in Switzerland they are usually 6-digit.

Re: Illusion shattered

[plover]

Eliminating repeated digits and sequences can significantly reduce the search space. A security policy that requires a 4-digit PIN with no repeats or sequential digits eliminates about 35% of the possible PINs.

Re:Illusion shattered

[ildon]

If he actually understood probability he wouldn't have wasted his money on lottery tickets.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

bank card PINs are usually 4-digits

Grammar nazi wants to say that that should be "4 digits". If you would instead say "it has a 4-digit pin", then you would use the dash.

Pins don't have digits, but PINs do. Maybe that's what you meant?

Re:Illusion shattered

[rapiddescent]

The EMV (ISO/IEC 7816-3) standard allows for a change PIN function that will take a 6 digit PIN. Some banks around the world operate with a 6-digit PIN.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

A dictionary attack is only reasonable if the key space is so large that a brute force attack is infeasible, while at the same time the dictionary is so small that you can try every key in it. Consequently, a system where a dictionary attack is applicable benefits from eliminating all elements from a reasonable dictionary. A dictionary which covers a third of the key space is not a reasonable dictionary. It's either too large to try, or the key space is too small to warrant a dictionary attack in the first place.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

HTML Entity Nazi wants to say "-", "–", "—" are all perfectly achievable on Slashdot.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus proving that there is no party like a Nazi party.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Or better yet, don't play at all. The only winning move after all, in a lottery, is not to play.

Re:Illusion shattered

[__aaltlg1547]

"Not being so hot at maths" doesn't follow. It's easier to remember your lottery numbers if you never change them. Then it only takes a second to check whether you've won because the numbers are in your head as well as on the ticket.

Re: Illusion shattered

[J'raxis]

Let’s see if this works for “smart” quotation marks, too.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

If a lot of people think 1-2-3-4-5-6 is unlikely, then the payout may be larger than average.
But then if a lot of people think a lot of people think 1-2-3-4-5-6 is unlikely and therefore play this, the payout will be lower than average...

Re: Illusion shattered

[SpaghettiPattern]

So your grandfather was basically messing with simpleton brains. He must have been a character and I for one would probably have appreciated his conversation.

Re:Illusion shattered

[AK Marc]

I had some serious trouble when traveling once, and I ended up at an ATM that required a 6-digit PIN. I only had a 4-digit PIN. I tried twice, with leading or trailing 0, but neither worked.

Re:Illusion shattered

[AK Marc]

You can be great at maths and still play the lottery. It is a psychological game, not mathematical.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, this is just to let you know TT'ing your font doesn't make you look oldschool, just somewhat retarded.

I would think his UID was enough to make him look old-school.

Re:Illusion shattered

[AK Marc]

You (incorrectly) assume all expected values are the same (a linear relationship between EV $1 and EV $10, and a low-probability EV $1 is the same as a high probability EV $1). That, and the EV of a rollercoaster ride is negative, but people still do it. If amusement park patrons were smart at math, they'd not waste their money on admission.

Yeah, pure math is a poor measure of lotteries.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

"00000000" could be random, but is highly unlikely. More than likely it was cased by a bias in the system.

"47517291" could be random, but is highly unlikely. More than likely it was cased by a bias in the system.

Re:Illusion shattered

[AK Marc]

00000000 is just as random as any other code.

Given that it was likely not generated randomly, then it isn't random. It was selected by a person, likely with the intent of being remembered. That makes it very non-random.

Re:Illusion shattered

[runeghost]

You're neglecting to take into account the monetary value of being able to suspend your disbelief and imagine for a little while that your entire life won't be a miserable living hell of poverty. That's true for far more people in the United States than anyone is comfortable admitting. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/11/05/2890091/wage-income-data/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

Re:Illusion shattered

[umafuckit]

Another important reason is that, however unlikely it is to have your special numbers come up, it is not impossible. When they do come up and just that time you didn't play, you'll kick your own arse for the rest of your life. This risk is a strong motivation to keep playing, which can lead to gambling addiction. So to lower your risk of getting addicted to gambling, don't ever bet on the same numbers.

The grandmother of one of my sister's friends would "play" the lottery that way. Choosing numbers but not buying a ticket. I don't recall if she stuck with one set of numbers or chose new ones each week. Anyway: one week she "won." That was a bit of bugger.

Re:Illusion shattered

[SigmundFloyd]

Nah, WOPR was more intelligent than the average general and therefore decided the code wasn't 00000000 because that would be stupid.

So that goes to show it actually wasn't a bad choice...

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange game...

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

EMV books specify PIN length as 4-12 numbers. There is specific support in almost all payment terminals to support 12 number PIN codes.

Re:Illusion shattered

[fatphil]

There's only one sensible way to pick lottery numbers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN3GwyGTRXA

Re: Illusion shattered

[davester666]

They do throw the best parties.

You just want to make sure you've left before the cleanup phase begins.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

thanks Mason, so that's what those numbers mean....

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Not for everyone who plays, just the average case

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Frankly when entering the lottery generally costs less than a Starbucks coffee, you might as well enter if you have the disposable income. It's not going to cost much relatively, but can have a very large payout - potentially enough to be mortgage-free for life and have some leftover to invest wisely. A better investment than spending the same on a Monday morning coffee that you'll enjoy for about a minute and really is only worth about 5p.

Re:Illusion shattered

[bloodhawk]

The worst numbers to play in lottery are from 1-12, the next worst are 12-30 (dates and ages).. basically he would have been sadly disappointed with how little he would have gotten had he actually won with 1-2-3-4-5-6. My stepfather back in the 80's used to do that in Australia, he hit the jackpot and was stunned when his payout was only 10 grand (expecting a million dollars), I guess the hundreds of other winners were probably just as disappointed.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

"Not being so hot at maths" doesn't follow. It's easier to remember your lottery numbers if you never change them. Then it only takes a second to check whether you've won because the numbers are in your head as well as on the ticket.

Any numbers that you can remember are a terrible idea. It makes you infinitely more prone to gambling addiction - or what should perhaps instead be called paranoia of not having the chance to win. My friend's mother was quite fond of moderate gambling for a while but then decided to quit. However, the one thing which has become a regular - albeit relatively small - expense is the lottery for one simple reason. She always played the same numbers and since she remembers those, she simply fears how crazy she'll go if she stops and the numbers that she remembers so well come up. I believe her when she says she could quit that too if she simply had played different numbers every time.

Now I think the parent poster's reference to maths was to the poor ability of people who gamble to calculate probabilities.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

In Finland I learned such a piece of lottery trivia that the by far most common numbers played are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Thousands of people play them every week - or at least played until there was a documentary about the history of our lottery here and those who saw it should at least have changed their habits.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

How did you write en-dash "â""?

Re:Illusion shattered

[angel'o'sphere]

If I had picked different numbers at that day, I had won: NOTHING!

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

The limit is actually 12 digits. That's why mine is 12 and has worked all over the world with both ATMs and Point of Sale terminals.

The last six are important, as the systems let me know whenever I transpose the last couple of digits. And this isn't just the systems branded by my bank, but by all ATMs that I've ever used.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know where that very large payout comes from, right?

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

My grandfather used to play 1-2-3-4-5-6 in the lottery, and when someone would point out that that number would never come up, he'd gleefully educate that person on probability.

Maybe so, but 1-2-3-4-5-6 is still a bad number to play, because if you win, there's likely to be dozens of others (who perhaps all think similarly) who will win and thus split the jackpot with you.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. A random number generator should never change the outcome by removing "unlikely" or "obvious" results. It is no longer a RNG and those flaws may be used to attack it. I thought this was comon knowledge, but then I thought Slashdot was a site for people who understood computational theory once...

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

00000000 is just as random as any other code. My grandfather used to play 1-2-3-4-5-6 in the lottery, and when someone would point out that that number would never come up, he'd gleefully educate that person on probability.

Besides, the code that WOPR was trying to crack was a 12-digit alphanumeric string of the style JPE-1704-TKS.

So, tellme, did your grandfather ever win the lottery with this combination ?

Re: Illusion shattered

[mnemotronic]

Don't be stupid, new a smarty! Come and join the Nazi party! Deutscheland is happy and gay! (Mel Brooks from "The Producers")

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't work for me. Here's an en dash â" and an en dash â" as an example.

I'm just using the default web-based posting interface on iOS, using standard keyboard characters (press and hold hyphen) that work for most other communication types.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not looking for a random number from a uniform distribution. The randomness is used for a purpose, namely to create a secure password. A password which is in a dictionary is a bad password, no matter how it was created. Rejection sampling (as the general technique is called) has many applications, because you don't always want your random numbers to come from a uniform distribution. In this particular case, you want the probability of a password which is in the dictionary to be zero, and the remaining passwords all to be equally likely. Another way of achieving this is to create a random number within the size of the desired key space (all passwords without the ones in the dictionary) and to map it to the passwords that are not in the dictionary, but rejection sampling is easier, usually faster and creates the same distribution.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Something similar happened to me: the lottery numbers were chosen, and as they were read out I called out the number, about 3 seconds in advance. I have to doubt though, that the events leading me to choose those numbers would have allowed me to choose them at the time I'd bought a ticket.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'll just leave this here. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/income-mobility-location_n_3635008.html sorry your statement is utter bullshit

Re:Illusion shattered

[GigaplexNZ]

Alternatively put the disposable income in a savings account or some kind of investment scheme and statistically come out better off.

Re:Illusion shattered

[cgenman]

So to lower your risk of getting addicted to gambling, don't ever bet on the same numbers.

Or, you know, don't play if the odds aren't in your favor. Which they aren't.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Sabriel]

Dear AC, did you mean to paste a different link? That one supports your opponent. :)

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should look up HTML entities then. Because, you know, those work unlike what you are trying.

Re:Illusion shattered

[petman]

Couldn't you have entered just 4 digits and then pressed Enter?

Re:Illusion shattered

[AK Marc]

No. It wouldn't accept enter without enough digits entered.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

HTML entities. You're welcome.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Ralph Wiggam]

One reason is that numbers which are special to you have a high probability of being special to someone else. The expected result of playing those numbers in a lottery is therefore lower than for other numbers.

My old roommate would pick all numbers above 31. Most people that do manual picks use birthdays, so the chances of splitting would decrease. I never play the lottery, but I like that system.

Several years ago on September 11th, the New York daily pick 3 drawing was 9-1-1. A huge number of people won, but luckily for them the pick 3 payout is a flat prize and not a pool that gets divided.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Ralph Wiggam]

The generals using 00000000 was not dumb at all. The civilian leadership demanded that they create a launch code to take control away from the generals and make sure that nobody could go rogue (Jack D. Ripper style). The generals were terrified that a Soviet sneak attack could kill all of those civilians and leave the Air Force unable to retaliate against the dirty Reds. Using a non-secret code complied with the letter of the order while still keeping the control that they wanted. I'm actually impressed that they managed to hide it from the civilian leadership for so many years.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Hognoxious]

I had the same thing (in France) and that didn't work either.

Re: Illusion shattered

[daveapriltwenty]

I got that. I got that reference...

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

i've seen ATM's which allow up to 6 digits too.

but all of them allowed pressing the green "OK" button after just 4 digits. so if you have 6, it will enter the next screen after typing the 6th digit. otherwise you have to advance manually..

Re:Illusion shattered

[stealth_finger]

Nah, WOPR was more intelligent than the average general and therefore decided the code wasn't 00000000 because that would be stupid.

How often would you try 00000 as the PIN for someone's bank card?

Dunno about you guys but my bank wont let me set any ridiculously stupid code. Maybe they were going for the hidden in plain sight thing. Who would actually try that. Not like anyone would be in a position to have the thing and guess the codes anyway (you'd hope) but still.

Re:Illusion shattered

[stealth_finger]

. One reason is that numbers which are special to you have a high probability of being special to someone else.

My brother and I both set the same pin on our banks independently. It wasn't till a few years later we realised and had a good chuckle about it, but neither of us changed it. True story.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

He was probably some euphoric fedorawearing idiot who was so illuminated by his own intelligence to realize that playing the lottery at all is a sure sign you *completely* fail to grasp probability.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Omfg, sweet Jesus on a stick. The words of Jim Baker III (Chief of Staff for President Ray-gun) ring again and again, maybe the smartest thing any Republican ever said, "People, there is no great grand conspiracy - your leaders really are that stupid!".

Re:Illusion shattered

[bungo]

I don't live in France, but I sometimes do my weekly shopping there. Every time when I use a foreign card that only uses a 4 digit pin but the machine accepts 6 digits, I've been able to enter in only the 4 digits, hit ok, and it works.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

When they do come up and just that time you didn't play, you'll kick your own arse for the rest of your life.

Which might not be that long time anyway. One case was mentioned in the news some years back, where a man committed suicide after not having played that one week his numbers came out.

Re:Illusion shattered

[master_kaos]

tell that to the people who have actually won.

Re:Illusion shattered

[dewrox]

When I lived in Canada they used to be 4 digits but then they changed them so you could have up to 12 digits... I used all 12 because I could. Here in the USA though I can only have 4 digits.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't matter, it is a bad practice to have the same password/passcode for 20 years..

Re: Illusion shattered

[dragon-file]

How about a nice game of chess?

Re:Illusion shattered

[oldestgeek]

00000000 is just as random as any other code. My grandfather used to play 1-2-3-4-5-6 in the lottery, and when someone would point out that that number would never come up, he'd gleefully educate that person on probability.

Besides, the code that WOPR was trying to crack was a 12-digit alphanumeric string of the style JPE-1704-TKS.

Not according to Gregory Chaitin's definition of random. Any repetition could be entered by someone absent-mindedly hitting a key over and over while trying to think of a better one. Using a dail would make it the least likely repetition vs. 1111111. A child might enter 123456 just for fun making it not random.

Re:Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

I use a 7-digit PIN. Seems like I could have used a longer one and I've never had an issue with it in the US so far.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

This is only news to ignorant drones: anyone who uses their brain for more than consumption knew this at least a decade ago. Much like the "news" about various accidents involving nuclear weapons this has been common knowledge amongst the literate for a long time. Let your retroactive outrage spew but this isn't news.

Re: Illusion shattered

[retchdog]

The only "flaw" is that it reduces entropy. This reduction can be trivially computed given a well-defined discard scheme; you may then increase the length of the key slightly to compensate, if necessary.

In exchange, you rule out an entire class of script kiddies who would quickly find one of the discarded keys, but will need to use exhaustive search to find the remainders.

In short: the entropy is, strictly speaking, only valid if the attacker is using the same generative function as the key generator. Reality is slightly different. Losing a few bits of entropy to rule out the chance of presenting "low-hanging fruit" is often a smart move.

Re: Illusion shattered

[retchdog]

Okay, maybe not "often," but it is quite possible that it would be a good idea.

Re:Illusion shattered

[retchdog]

Using the standard modern definition, randomness is a property of an algebra of subsets of a sample space, but who really cares?

If you wanted to model this kind of thing, you'd need something like prior probabilities for each of the generating mechanisms. The 'probability' of a stupid human is 0.5; the probability of a uniform rng being used is 0.1; etc., and each mechanism has its associated 'probability' of generating each number (or number sequence if you prefer, it's really the same). The probability of getting 0000000 given a stupid human will be higher than getting 0000000 given a uniform rng. Meh.

What you're talking about is more like Kolmogorov complexity, which is cool, but has a few problems.

Re: Illusion shattered

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, this is just to let you know TT'ing your font doesn't make you look oldschool, just somewhat retarded.

I would think his UID was enough to make him look old-school.

Any benefit in reputation gained by his low UID is negated by his Farcebook homepage link.

I always knew

[UberVegeta]

that sending Snake all the way back to the blast furnance and that freezing warehouse to change the shape of the PAL override shape-memory alloy key was a waste of time. Damn it, Kojima!

Re:I always knew

[Anubis IV]

In the Twin Snakes version of the game that came out for Gamecube, you could climb over a rail just outside of the room where you need to use the key, drop down and grab onto a balcony that has no other way to access it, then shoot some pipes on the wall to release heat/cold appropriately to change the shape of the key. I had played through the game multiple times and one day sat down to watch a speed run of it. I was wondering how the guy was going to make it to the blast furnace and warehouse in good time, only to have him use the pipes instead.

So, this is what Slashdot has become?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting old ass information as "new"technology news?

Re:So, this is what Slashdot has become?

[jones_supa]

It's not "old ass", it's "carefully fermented just the right time".

Re:So, this is what Slashdot has become?

[Razgorov Prikazka]

Oh, and Jimmy Carter once sent his jacket to the dry-cleaner with a paper with the detonation codes still in one of the pockets. Just so you dont have to write a 'news article' on that in the near future...
I got both pieces of info via QI (Quite interesting), wich is normally considered a quiz, but for the author it is probably a news show...

Re:So, this is what Slashdot has become?

[Anonymous Coward]

QI is quite interesting because the information on it is generally novel to the viewers. If they only stated things that were widely known it wouldn't be watched, or interesting .

Dial "1" for a Brand New World

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean to tell me, when WOPR was busy looking for the launch code in Wargames, it was all a bunch of crap?

They forgot to tell you that if you dial "1" you get a brand new world.

Re:Dial "1" for a Brand New World

[alphatel]

You mean to tell me, when WOPR was busy looking for the launch code in Wargames, it was all a bunch of crap?

They forgot to tell you that if you dial "1" you get a brand new world.

Actually the password might have been eight zeros, but you have to dial a 1 + area code to get the outside nuclear line.

Re:Dial "1" for a Brand New World

[FatdogHaiku]

You mean to tell me, when WOPR was busy looking for the launch code in Wargames, it was all a bunch of crap?

They forgot to tell you that if you dial "1" you get a brand new world.

All I know is that every time I dial Avogadro's number my phone crashes...

When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[bobthesungeek76036]

I guess ease-of-use trumps security...

Re: When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

They must be running Windows then.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

they had good physical security

i guess when you are being nuked the last thing you want to worry about is finding the right password to nuke the other guy

Re: When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

But not Windows 8.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[isorox]

I guess ease-of-use trumps security...

Remember you have George W Bush in charge for 8 years. Anything more complex than a big red button would have been beyond him

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[EdIII]

I guess ease-of-use trumps security...

Remember you have George W Bush in charge for 8 years. Anything more complex than a big red button would have been beyond him

Even then it was a 50/50 shot he could push the red button...

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[machine321]

So, can Dubya resist pushing the big red button? The jolly candylike button?

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[squiggleslash]

"If The Button's there, it's there to be pressed. That's what buttons are for" - "Conservative Party Manifesto, Election 1983" from Steve Bell's If....

Re: When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[93 Escort Wagon]

They must be running Windows then.

Windows - ease of use? You've got to be kidding.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, blaming Bush for something Kennedy. Liberalism really is a mental disorder.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Ultracrepidarian]

Access to the big red button should be restricted to those who can pronounce nuclear.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

It's nucular, dummy; the "s" is silent.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[DerekLyons]

I guess ease-of-use trumps security...

Security prevents people from gaining access to the weapon. Surety prevents unauthorized use.

Re:When it comes to Nuclear Weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

Which pronunciation is that? Noo-klee-er, the common one? Or noo-cue-ler, the one used by Edward Teller, the "father of the hydrogen bomb"?

Thankfully..

[sjwt]

Thankfully this would not happen today, as after adding a captcha it is now totally undecipherable by man or machine.

Re:Thankfully..

[Anonymous Coward]

Captcha sounds like the perfect solution for preventing premature launch event, fitting for any general.

Re:Thankfully..

[luther349]

im sorry dave you entered the wrong captcha the silo will self destruct in 5 seconds.

Nukum

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like that password worked.
Like the beer commercial "It's only weird if it doesn't work".

Oooold....

[Anonymous Coward]

Frightening, but this has been known at least since 2004.

Re:Oooold....

[Anonymous Coward]

Frightening, but this has been known at least since 2004.

Hopefully somebody knew it before that.

Re: Oooold....

[Anonymous Coward]

Robert Morris talked about this at the AUUG 98 conference in Sydney.

Re:Oooold....

[CurryCamel]

Yes, we know. Its stated right there in TFA.

Code zero zero zero. Destruct. Zero.

[garlicbready]

who set the code for this thing shatner?

Code zero zero zero. Destruct. Zero.

Big d*ck

[Anonymous Coward]

well, it should have been "big d*ck"; because well, that was what the nukes were all about.

Re:Big d*ck

[fritsd]

well, it should have been "big d*ck"; because well, that was what the nukes were all about.

Yes indeed! Big Duck (and Cover) (SFW)

Illusion restored

[jbeaupre]

The codes were changed in 1977. WOPR was installed in 1983.

Re:Illusion restored

[maxwell demon]

The codes were changed in 1977.

Let me guess: The new code was "77777777"?

No wait, I know: "12345678"!

SCNR ;-)

Re:Illusion restored

[akboss]

666-666-66

Re: Illusion restored

[DarrenBaker]

That's incredible! I have the same combination on my luggage!

Re: Illusion restored

[Anonymous Coward]

No! The code was OBVIOUSLY changed to 9876543210

Re: Illusion restored

[Anonymous Coward]

Came for this, leaving satisfied.

Re: Illusion restored

[Anonymous Coward]

Dang! Now I have Midnight Oil's US Forces on the brain. You insensitive clod!

Re: Illusion restored

[thunderclap]

That's incredible! I have the same combination on my luggage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K95SXe3pZoY

Theatre

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like those Air Force dude's who had sitting-in-a-silo careers when there's an other remote control system that can fire ze missiles anyhow.

Obligatory

[jones_supa]

That's the combination for my luggage!

Re:Obligatory

[lars_boegild_thomsen]

I am not sure it's wise to admit that in public these days. Someone might assume you've had a hidden agenda for obtaining launch codes.

Re:Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Err, my wifi password used to be thirteen 0s.

Re:Obligatory

[jfdavis668]

I came to post the same thing. Too late.

Re:Obligatory

[Zocalo]

Might as well post the other traditional obligatory here too. After all, we all know that the launch code isn't the most important field any more!

Re:Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I came to post the same thing. Too late.

How come you know the combination for jones_supas luggage?

Are you working for the NSA or another TLA?

Re:Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

That's my Slashdot password!

Now if only I could remember my username....

Re:Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

its the only TSA-approved luggage code

Re:Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Helmet: Who hired this asshole?

Sanders: I did sir. He’s my cousin.

Helmet: Who is he?

Sanders: He’s an asshole sir.

Helmet: I know that. What’s his name?

Sanders: That is his name sir. Asshole, Major Asshole.

Helmet: And his cousin?

Sanders: He’s an Asshole too sir, Gunners Mate First Class Phillip Asshole.

Helmet: How many Assholes we got on this ship, anyhow?

ALL: YO!!!

Helmet: I knew it, I’m surrounded by assholes!

No worries

[Anonymous Coward]

All decryptos begin with 00000001 :D

Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

The final password spoken by Kirk to the computer for destruction of The Enterprise in Wrath of Khan, and also in one of the original series' episodes, is something similar like:

000DESTRUCT0

But even ST had THREE passwords - one each for Captain, Chief Engineer and Second in Command.

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

Also they had the added benefit of voice print ID. So the computer first had to recognize you as someone worthy of inputting the code. With that in place the difficulty of said code is less of a security mechanism and more of a random jumble of words/numbers so I don't accidentally set this thing to blow.

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Search for Spock"...not "Wrath of Kahn"...

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

The Enterprise gets destroyed in The Search for Spock, not in The Wrath of Khan. Please surrender your nerd card.

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

But even those were unbelievably stupid.

Code 1. 1A
Code 2. 1A2B
Code 3. 1A2B-3
Final destruct Sequence 000 Destruct 0

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

Jim from the broadcast show 'Taxi' sent the hula girls/waitstaff from 'Fantasy Island' to commandeer the Enterprise LMNOP and then Captain Jimmy Kirk said "Oh, oh, oh, THISSTUFF!, OH!" and his friends did the same thing. And then there was a climax. It was the movie "Star Trek 3: the search for Spunk". I remember it like it was 1969. And then there was a climax.

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

Four passwords... the Captain had the first one (code 11A I think) and last one you mentioned. Not to mention the computer was doing voice verification. And on top of that the self destruct system was actually online which doesn't happen often. :-)

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

The final password spoken by Kirk to the computer for destruction of The Enterprise in Wrath of Khan, and also in one of the original series' episodes, is something similar like:

000DESTRUCT0

But even ST had THREE passwords - one each for Captain, Chief Engineer and Second in Command.

search for spock you mean

I'll show myself out

Re:Star Trek world more secure

[Anonymous Coward]

It was in "The search for Spock" not "The wrath of Khan"

obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6iW-8xPw3k

oooooooooh!

[Anonymous Coward]

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

00000000

Roman-proof

[Anonymous Coward]

Good thinking! If the Romans invade, they'll never be able to launch the missiles.

Re:Roman-proof

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha I get it. But what if it's Indians or Arabs? They know about zero!

Mr Blutarsky

[Anonymous Coward]

Zero... point... zero!

00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[mowchine]

I saw some idiot claim that people just do not understand probability theory and state that in effect 00000000 is just as secure as 737474757. I would call him ignorant of hacking. What does one start with when cracking password protected systems? . . . a dictionary of common crap people use, like "000000000", "1111111111", "101010101010", "007007007007".

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

00000000 is so unsafe. It would be ten times better to use 000000000.

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[joe_frisch]

Maybe it is. Seriously, imagine that you have just broken into a missile launch complex and are trying to guess the combo. Would 00000000 really be one of the first you would try?

More seriously, nuclear launch is too important for passwords of any kind. If some reasonable set of people know the password you can threaten or torture it out of them - a minor effort compared to breaking the physical security around a launch complex. Remember its not like you can remotely log in to the launch computer for a Titan missile complex. (more modern missiles now....???)

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

A dictionary attack would not be required for the launch codes, since they were preset to 0000000. Just turn the keys.

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[drinkypoo]

Maybe it is. Seriously, imagine that you have just broken into a missile launch complex and are trying to guess the combo. Would 00000000 really be one of the first you would try?

Since this isn't news (and we've discussed it here before) yes, yes I would try all zeroes. I'd also try all ones, 1-whatever, whatever-1, 0-whatever, etc. on the assumption that whoever initially implemented the password knew as much about security as you do, and due to the vagaries of government contracts it was never changed.

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that in this case would you have guessed the password to be all zeroes? Maybe all zeroes was the strongest code in this case?

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, than 00000001

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[D'Arque Bishop]

At one place I worked, the marketing director had arrived at work, but had forgotten her alarm code. So, she typed in "123456". The system seemingly disarmed, and she went to her office.

Very shortly after, the police arrived. What she didn't know was that criminals trying that code first was so common that the alarm company dispatched police immediately when it was used, figuring that someone using it was trying to break in. Needless to say she was more than a little upset after everything was straightened out... ;-)

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[canadiannomad]

And since no one read TFA.. I'll just point out that the code was on the checklist... Written in plain sight.

Our launch checklist in fact instructed us, the firing crew, to double-check the locking panel in our underground launch bunker to ensure that no digits other than zero had been inadvertently dialed into the panel.

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[freeze128]

That's a good idea to provide a code like that in case you are compelled to reveal the code under duress. Suppose that you were taken hostage, and the HT threatened you with harm unless you revealed the security code. You could tell them "123456", and they would get off your back, but when they tried to use it, BAM - Here come the cops.

However, if I was the HT in this case, and the hostage told me the code was "123456", I would slap them, just on principal.

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[erice]

Depends on how it is implemented. If all zero's is the default value you may not need to enter any code at all to launch the nukes.

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[AK Marc]

Yeah, where I worked, the alarm code was written on the keypad. Much easier to never forget.

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[sjames]

It is not as secure when ALL of them are set to the same number, the number is pre-entered, and the number is documented in the manual. It just adds to the nonsense when the number is deliberately easy to memorize just in case the manual isn't handy and someone accidentally changed the pre-entered number.

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[TheDayOfMe]

that is why real duress codes are based on your own code, usual just add 1.

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

Working in the security industry, I can tell you two things about such codes
1) Most building access control systems that use PIN entry do have a duress code.
2) Most building access control system administrators never tell the employees what the duress code is, because you can guarantee that half your staff will forget which is which the first time they use the code!

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[D'Arque Bishop]

There was also an actual duress code that looked realistic that employees could use in case of a situation you describe. :-)

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

...hey what's the duress code again?.... I think it was 123456.... no wait, that's the combination on my luggage...

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[TangoMargarine]

WTF would it be a valid code then?!

Re: 00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[MotorMachineMercenar]

These days she would be apprehended as trying to break in to a secure facility and circumvent security measures.

Re:00000000 just as secure as 73618357

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw some idiot claim that people just do not understand probability theory and state that in effect 00000000 is just as secure as 737474757.

Probability theory? Probability theory doesn't make choice less secure than another. You need something that takes into account human behavior, which is not probability theory. Did you misunderstand this person's point?

Well... ya

[Sycraft-fu]

In particular because there is no central computer control. The military has always been real big about having humans in the chain, which is why this code isn't a big deal. It still required the two guys in the silos to turn their keys. There isn't any "OMG we hax the missiles!" shit that can go on. At the end of the day, only the operators in the silos can trigger a launch, it isn't on a network.

Same general deal in planes and so on. Like when a modern bombing mission is conducted, all the stuff is uploaded in to the computers beforehand, flight plan, targeting data, all that. The pilot is told on his HUD a countdown to when to release the bombs. Hitting the button doesn't release them either, the plane's computers decide when it is actually best to release. So what does it do? Allows the plane to release. If the pilot doesn't trigger, it can't drop, no matter if it thinks it should. The human is the final deciding factor.

Maybe the military will change their mind some day as automation increases, but for now they are real, real big on having a human have to be the final factor.

Re:Well... ya

[93 Escort Wagon]

If the pilot doesn't trigger, it can't drop, no matter if it thinks it should. The human is the final deciding factor.

The Battle of Midway taught us the problem with making this sort of assumption.

Of course, with bombers you can test every system change using dummy bombs (but did they?). With ICBMs, not so much.

Re:Well... ya

[ColdWetDog]

Doolittle: Hello, Bomb? Are you with me?
Bomb #20: Of course.
Doolittle: Are you willing to entertain a few concepts?
Bomb #20: I am always receptive to suggestions.
Doolittle: Fine. Think about this then. How do you know you exist?
Bomb #20: Well, of course I exist.
Doolittle: But how do you know you exist?
Bomb #20: It is intuitively obvious.
Doolittle: Intuition is no proof. What concrete evidence do you have that you exist?
Bomb #20: Hmmmm... well... I think, therefore I am.
Doolittle: That's good. That's very good. But how do you know that anything else exists?
Bomb #20: My sensory apparatus reveals it to me. This is fun.

Re:Well... ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Or one guy with a screwdriver and some clip leads. Yeah, the key switches look impressive, until you notice the entire panel comes off with ordinary cross-head screws and behind the complicated mechanism is just one on-off electrical connection.

AC

Re:Well... ya

[TangoMargarine]

There isn't any "OMG we hax the missiles!" shit that can go on.

Famous Last Words. After all the shoddily-done systems we've heard about with security holes you could fly a B-52 through, you really think the nuclear system is invulnerable? Perfectly?

Re:Well... ya

[Anonymous Coward]

"Maybe the military will change their mind some day as automation increases"

Some day? Drones are becoming more autonomous every day. You know you don't have to wait for the future anymore when you hear that the UN is having a convention on the appropriate use of killer robots :(

Maybe the Roaches will do better with their chance

[VortexCortex]

"Welcome to the U.S. nuclear arsenal hotline.
Please listen carefully as some menu items have changed.
Para continuar en Espanol marque numero dos.
...
Main menu opti--"

Oh damn it. I fucking hate theses things.
Billions blown and I can't get a real human operator on the line?!

"--mutually assured destruction press 4
For scheduling nuclear launches press 3
For prior launch status updates press 2
To change a nuclear launch code press 1
To launch all mis--"

Aargh! Screw it. I know a trick...
:: repeatedly presses 0 until the end of the world ::

How do you know you've been nuked

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you know you've been nuked before it's too late to launch?

You can't.

Tunguska would have looked like a medium sized nuclear warhead.

QUICK! DIAL 00000000! WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!!!

Of course, when you find out after an hours investigation that turns up no radiation fallout, your nukes are on their way and their recipient has just noticed that they're under unprovoked nuclear attack and launched THEIR birds.

I suppose the "upside" for the morons pressing 0000000 is that nobody is going to care they got it wrong, being too dead and you can just hope that the location that you thought you got nuked on gets hit by a genuine one in the retalliation, thereby making plausible deniability on the mistake.

And it was probably a piss take

[Anonymous Coward]

And it was probably a piss take of this real situation.

Maybe someone in missile command watching would think "Haha! That's a DUMB password! Oh, hang on...".

Nowhere near as safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mashing the same button can happen because something has fallen on that button.

Or a cat has walked on the console.

Or you fell asleep.

Or a short pulse is generated by a shorting circuit making a 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ... which gets to a count of 8 of them. BOOM!

Or another code is needed and has a zero and you forgot the count of zeros.

Even 12345678 would be SAFER because the chance of that randomly happening is really really low.

Re: Nowhere near as safe.

[tysonedwards]

ISIS headquarters makes fort knox look like a gingerbread house. Only two means of ingress. The first, at street level, impenetrable after six. The second through an access door on the roof, inexplicably unprotected. But even if you ziplined across.. reach the access door, and somehow made it into ISIS headquarters, youâ(TM)d still have to find the mainframe. But wait, it gets worse. Inside there are three countermeasure systems. The first is pressue sensitive, in the floor. Even a mouse triggers it. The second is sound sensitive. Anything above a whisper sets it off. and the third system is state of the art voice activationâ¦

Re:Nowhere near as safe.

[Alex Pennace]

Or a short pulse is generated by a shorting circuit making a 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ... which gets to a count of 8 of them. BOOM!

This is actually far from hypothetical. Quoting Lee Earnest (http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/gump.htm):

In 1960, I somehow was assigned the responsibility of leading a study group to get approval for putting nuclear warheads on the second-generation BOMARC ground-to-air missiles. This involved proving to a government nuclear safety board in Albuquerque, New Mexico, that the probability of accidentally launching a missile on any given day as a result of system malfunctions was less than a certain very small number and that one person couldn't do it by himself. [...]

The SAGE system used land lines to transmit launch commands to the missile sites and, since these lines were duplexed, a black box at each missile site was set up to detect when the primary line went bad so that it could switch to the backup. However on examination we noticed that if both lines went bad concurrently the system would remain connected to the backup line and the amplifiers would then pick up and amplify whatever noise was there and interpret it as a stream of random bits.

[...] [a team member] did a Markov analysis to determine the expected time that it would take for a random bit stream to generate a Fire command for one of the missiles. He found that it was a little over two minutes and, when such a command was received, the missile would erect and prepare to launch. However, unless the missile also received a full set of guidance commands during the launch window of about five minutes, it would automatically abort.

So there it is. Nothing but random noise was all that is needed to erect and ready a nuclear-tipped missile. Although it wouldn't launch, that is probably small comfort to those near these things when they do pop up.

Re:Nowhere near as safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm used to amplified wire noise being mostly long streams of 1 bits. (You'd end up with long streams of 0 bits on a different kind of hardware).

All the same, very boneheaded not to checksum all commands.

Re:Nowhere near as safe.

[__aaltlg1547]

In the bad old days of pulse dialing, entering 00000000 would take 10x as long as entering 11111111.

Maybe they were going for maximum delay.

Re: Nowhere near as safe.

[EdIII]

Okay Krieger. Put the pipe down buddy...

Windows could have blown up the world!

[MrBandersnatch]

For a long time as I recall Windows 95, (or was it 2000/XP?) used a string of zeros as the key....that could have been really nasty!

Isn't the actual launch code for a nuclear warhead

[Meshugga]

the timings required to set off the compression plastique segments simultaneously, thusly rendering a nuclear bomb ineffective without it?

Password?

[TeddyR]

well... at least is not as confusing as having the password be "password"

General:: the deactivation password is "password"
Operator: whats the password...
General: "I Said... the deactivation password is PASSWORD"
Operator: ok but whats the password.......
Genaral: The....."; oops too late

Re:Password?

[Imrik]

I think "what" would be better, but then I always liked "Who's on First?"

Re:Password?

[shikaisi]

An admin I knew always reset the passwords of people who had forgotten their passwords to "I4GOT". We had lots of support calls which went something like this.

"So what's my new password?"

"I4GOT"

"No, I forgot, but I asked you to reset it for me. What did you reset it to?"

"I4GOT"

"Well, if you forgot it, how do you expect me to remember it?"

etc.

Re:Password?

[__aaltlg1547]

I supposed it's better than UDUMBASS.

Re:Password?

[fatphil]

What's the keyword?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yum50ua_mc8
(The only result for "dilbert wally keyword" was a totally fucked up mess of snippets, don't watch. The snippet I was after is probably in part 3 of the above, I didn't have time to watch the whole episode to find it.)

Re:Password?

[LMariachi]

I always reset them to "CHANGETHISPASSWORDRIGHTNOW"

Doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever on user behavior.

Re:Isn't the actual launch code for a nuclear warh

[chrylis]

Depends on which level you label the "code". The way the PAL worked was that the firing parameters were stored encrypted, and the code entered was used as a decryption key. Bad code, random firing sequence (and a fizzle).

Re:Illusion shattered (for grandpa)

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with your grandfathers "unique" way of playing the lottery, is that it he was probably 1 of 100++ people doing the same thing. Had it ever hit, he would have got to share the jackpot among all those other clever folks. While just as likely to hit as any other, some number sets are much more likely to be PICKED by us humans, thus reducing the overall return.

Human Psychology

[Anonymous Coward]

I am absolutely certain that most people involved in the decision including the most senior person, would have been influenced by the irony of choosing a password that so absolutely described what would be left, if it were ever used.

True random number

[houghi]

This is the same as if it were 12345678 or 28159464 or 81159215 or any other 8 digit combination. (or even CPE 1704 TKS)

Perhaps they used a random number generator and came up with this number.
What would be interesting would why only digits. Was this a given, or were characters an option as well?

Another would be how many people are supposed to know the code. You would not want too many people, but also not too few. Also not too complicated, so when the time comes, the person does not have to call IT in India to ask for a password reset. (As a matter of speech.)

On the one hand you have a technical reason to make the password as difficult as possible. On the other it must be as easy as possible. I can imagine that people would not want to be pointed at as to why there was no launch possible when needed. (Those who would want to do that, will not get the job. Saving humanity is NOT the goal.)

Re:There is no such thing as a nuclear bomb

[Anonymous Coward]

http://heiwaco.tripod.com/bomb.htm

heh

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if 411 can connect me because there is no way I can remember 00000000.

I haven't read TFA

[ledow]

I haven't read TFA but:

I'd like to think that if you ever got to the point where you were in front of something that would accept a password to launch a nuclear strike, and you WEREN'T one of the people authorised to know the passwords, it's game over anyway.

The only thing that device can do is send an electrical signal to something - if you've got that far, especially in the era mentioned - chances are you just insert that signal directly without having to worry about the Password? prompt anyway.

The questions I have are - was the password a variable-length entry? Because if you just typed in 7 zeros and pressed Enter, would it accept it?

And, what did that password actually DO? What did it activate? What systems did it energise? What kind of hardware was behind it? Where was it stored?

That's infinitely more important than what the damn password is.

Hell, given that Slashdot are now printing articles that basically derive from questions asked on QI some years ago, I'd like to bring up another: the UK's equivalent was to have the prime minister's chauffeur stop his car, dial a phone number and ask the operator to reverse the charges, to call the hotline that would give the prime minister the chance to verbally authorise retaliation in the event of a Soviet nuclear strike.

By comparison, 00000000 is positively forward-thinking.

Re:I haven't read TFA

[SiggyRadiation]

It was actually pretty advanced for the era. Read a little here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permissive_Action_Link

Re:I haven't read TFA

[Anonymous Coward]

The password digits had to be dialed in on individual dials.

Re:Ooh. Look Out!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be as proud as DNS-and-BIND's granddad, who never had to split the jackpot with anyone, because he never won the jackpot.

A systematic problem

[CaptBubba]

The book Command and Control by Eric Schlosser goes into the issues of the cold war control of our nukes in a wonderful way, detailing just how messed up our control of nukes was and how we are damn lucky that we didn't have an accidental nuclear detonation at some point (there were plenty of accidental conventional detonations that by sheer luck didn't have a nuclear core in them).

Nuclear weapons are "always/never" devices in that they should always work when you want them to and never work when you don't. The military only cared about the "always" side of the equation. So much so that they even nixed the idea of an inertial switch in fusing mechanism of the reentry vehicles of ICBMs that would only connect the detonation systems after detecting the g-forces of reentry.

Further any suggestion of improving the control of the nukes was met with grumpy rage at civilians daring to tell the military how to run its business as well as fights between the Air Force, Army, and Navy over funding and power.

Re:A systematic problem

[ToddInSF]

It is interesting to note that our worst fears and suspicions were well founded.

The people in charge, the authorities, the only reason they did not manage to literally destroy the entire world was pure, dumb luck...

WOPR

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess WOPR's brute force attack started from the top, 99999999.

No big deal...

[Lisias]

... if the keypads that would accept the code is guarded by a squad of trigger happy elite shooters.

Knowing the password worths squat if you get shoot before touching the keypad - and you will get shoot if you try to get near one without proper authorization.

Re:No big deal...

[Waffle Iron]

- and who will guard the guards themselves?

Re:No big deal...

[Electricity Likes Me]

Well for one thing, the guards don't need to have the keys or equipment on hand to breach silo doors. Which you can then rig with intrusion alarms which have to provide a positive signal to some nearby authority to respond.

Kind of hard for 12 guards to cut through a meter of re-inforced door when the local national guard gets told "go and shoot all these guys if you see them trying to enter this building when the alarm goes off".

Not news

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that I saw this mentioned on a QI episode that's at least a year old, certainly this isn't shocking anyone? If it has been on a BBC comedy quiz, even my granny knows about it.

Not only...

[DerekLyons]

Not only a dupe, but old, old news. This has been publicly and widely known for nearly a decade.

Re:Not only...

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Then on top of that it misses the point, that if you're trying to prevent people from starting WW3 on their own initiative, you don't let them choose the password. You should have the bomb builders set it. Bomb building was always kept carefully separate from the military.

Re:Not only...

[DerekLyons]

During the Cold War PAL's wern't intended to prevent people from starting WWIII... They were meant to prevent to use of weapons that had fallen into unfriendly hands. (Which is why the codes were set to all balls in the missile silos, and why SSBN's didn't have them.)

Re:Not only...

[sribe]

During the Cold War PAL's wern't intended to prevent people from starting WWIII... They were meant to prevent to use of weapons that had fallen into unfriendly hands. (Which is why the codes were set to all balls in the missile silos, and why SSBN's didn't have them.)

That's flat-out wrong. They absolutely were intended to prevent a rogue launch, and were mandated by the president of the US at the time, JFK, because he specifically wanted to prevent anyone in the military from being able to launch without his order. That the passwords were all set to "all balls", and that that code was the one that was always dialed in, was direct defiance of the order from the commander-in-chief, by military officers who resented that exercise of the president's authority.

Re:Not only...

[DerekLyons]

That's flat-out wrong.

Nope, it's the flat-out truth. You're just repeating what's become urban legend since the story first broke a decade ago.
 

They absolutely were intended to prevent a rogue launch, and were mandated by the president of the US at the time, JFK, because he specifically wanted to prevent anyone in the military from being able to launch without his order.

Have you ever actually read National Security Action Memorandum 160? (As referenced in the article.) It only applies to weapons released to NATO, not to weapons in US custody. There not one shred of evidence that JFK, or any other US President, ever mandated their use on US based missiles. (Oddly enough though, the Titan II had a use-control system that was active throughout it's service life.) The whole story that they were so mandated rests solely on an undocumented claim that Robert McNamara "saw to" the installation of the PAL systems. (It remains unclear to this day when, and by who, the systems actually were mandated.)

Re:Not only...

[c_jonescc]

Oh, that made me nostalgic for the /. of yesteryear.

Things are not the same now.

Re: Ooh. Look Out!

[Anonymous Coward]

But he had to split that un-jackpot with everyone!

Snowden has the new codes!

[Grand Facade]

Snowden has the new codes!

Joke's on them

[Guppy06]

The password is actually 8 Unicode capital omicrons.

Re:Joke's on them

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are saying /. wouldn't be able to launch then then.

Re:Joke's on them

[coolsnowmen]

Yeah, but we're pretty much all ok with that :-)

Re:Ooh. Look Out!

[gl4ss]

so the expected payout is lower - the max payout is definitely lower by order of magnitudes, therefore it is stupid to play those numbers and omgwtf stupid if you're using those numbers to educate people on probabilities and expected outcomes. if you take into account the fact that on any given lottery where you can choose the numbers 1-2-3-4-5-6.. is the most played and any big lottery would have 100 players playing those numbers then if you do the math on the expected return vs. any other number combination over several weeks then you should notice how it in fact is pretty stupid to play those numbers.

the only good reason for him to have been playing therefore had to be just donating money to whatever the lottery in said locale was financing... not to even have a chance at striking it rich, because he forfeited it by choosing those numbers - turning a small, tiny, chance of winning big money into 0.

now knowing that the code for the nukes was set by a human then a logical thing to test out would have been 00...

besides, sub commanders could just launch them by themselves.......

No, no.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's code:

Zero. Zero. Zero. Zero. Zero. Zero. Zero. Zero.

<dramatic pause with camera zoom>

Destruct!

<completely unnecessary pause>

Zero.

It's extremely hard to get the Shatneresque timing correct, of course - most people delay too long, so the nukes were perfectly safe. Only William Shatner could have launched them.

Re:No, no.

[Artifakt]

So you're implying, "To make the world permanently safe fron nuclear war, William Shatner must die!"? Sad, but inevitably we must surrender to the remorseless logic of realpolitik.

"b00000000!" Betcha I scared y000 HA HA

[TheRealHocusLocus]

Note we are not talking about straight launch codes (the envelopes etc.) This was an additional safeguard, a component in the message link (as in un-squelch) layer between SAC and silo.

I learned of this years ago, and since I've tracked the sentiment and reaction to it. How we thoughtfully react to this idea might be crucial to our survival and evolution as a species. Why? It hinges on personal responsibility. Time and again it is portrayed as a farce, a madcap circus-like adventure in the absurd. Or sternly, a waste of money and resource, a breech of protocol, a crime. A mistake. I'm not so sure. This was no mistake. The existence of such robotic barriers in c3i mechanisms breeds a dangerous complacency.

It is my view that the '00000000' PAL code as implemented not only performed well -- it actually added a significant edge to our species' survival impossible to achieve any other way.

Every time a technician would open the little door and inspect the combination at the start of their tour of duty, to ensure it was all zeroes... they'd say "Well this certainty isn't a factor. We'd better be on our toes!" Humans on their toes. The extra little edge. All the assurance we could ever hope to survive. Delivered: I THANK YOU, PERMISSIVE ACTION LINK. No joke.

When judging a system's insecurity by the strength of its passwords, it helps bear in mind such lock-out systems as implemented, may themselves fail or be subverted to achieve an undesirable result. The movie 'Failsafe' illustrates this well.

00000000 kept humans 'in the loop' while making them gravely aware of their personal responsibility to properly authenticate and verify orders.

uhhmmm, summary is incomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

Procedure for the people manning those silos required them to check at the beginning of every shift that the combination was reset to 00000000. So not only a dupe of information that has been widely known for over a decade, but also missing a very important fact. Good work Charliemopps and and timothy, you rock!

Bruce_G._Blair

[Ottawakismet]

I dont think this is at all a reliable source This should not have made it onto the slashdot page this guy is not an honest observer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_G._Blair

ObSpaceballs

[Anonymous Coward]

With apologies to Mel Brooks:

"The code is 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0"
"0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0? That's ridiculous! Only an idiot would choose that as their password!"

Enter the President.

"Sir, the code is 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0."

"0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0? That's the same combination I use on my luggage...."

2004 called - they want their news back

[mpbrede]

Seriously, this is a blogger posting news that broke in 2004. He even admits it. And /. reports is as sensational .. what?

That's crazy

[rsilvergun]

I have the same password on my matched luggage!

Random isn't the point

[sjbe]

00000000 is just as random as any other code.

True but irrelevant. The point of having the code was so that the launch decision was not available to whoever happened to be in the hole with the missile. By setting the code to a predetermined number they effectively gave the decision regarding whether to start WWIII to some random guy out in the field. All it would have taken was one or two crazy or misinformed people.

Re:Random isn't the point

[R3d M3rcury]

The point of having the code was so that the launch decision was not available to whoever happened to be in the hole with the missile.

And it still wasn't. If I remember my movies correctly, you didn't know the code until you broke open the appropriate sealed container which you weren't allowed to do until so ordered.

About the only concern I would have is that the order would come, I would break open the container, it would say that the launch code was 00000000 and I'd think, "Really? Somebody must have misprinted it. I'd better call and confirm this or something."

Re:Random isn't the point

[Hognoxious]

There are two guys in there. The other one would say "Try it, what harm can it do?" and you'd be like "OK!".

Playing with fire

[sjbe]

It still required the two guys in the silos to turn their keys.

Great, so it takes just two crazy and/or misinformed people to start WWIII. Sounds like a terrific plan. What could possibly go wrong?

Re:Playing with fire

[ahabswhale]

Don't worry, the horribly sourced article is referring to enable codes -- not launch codes. The article is designed to get everyone excited over nothing.

Re:Playing with fire

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that nuclear holocaust is a tragic part of history that was so avoidable. If only no human intellect had been involved...

Is it fun being a retard?

Re:Playing with fire

[Anonymous Coward]

If it makes you feel any better (yeah, I know it won't), there have demonstrably been more times when two people have stopped WW3 than started it. Well after the Cold War ended and as things became declassified, it was revealed that between the USA and USSR there were about a dozen incidents of close calls. Generally, these began when instruments indicated (in error) that the opposite side had launched a first strike. In each case, one or more skeptical humans decided "I do not believe that the Soviets/Americans have chosen today to end the world." No counter attack was launched, the error was discovered, and we continue to breathe.

Re:Playing with fire

[Anonymous Coward]

If a person has access to the missile keys and authority to order a military corp, we're already at their mercy to be a good actor. What sort of government is going to entrust such authority to any old crazy guy?

Upgrade

[countach44]

I trust they've now upgraded to the far more secure 12345678?

Re:Upgrade

[codes4free]

or 87654321 ?

Wow.. Talk about really old, old news

[Lawrence_Bird]

Must be slow time for 'news'

2004 Reference: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/17/usa.oliverburkeman1

And for those interested in the general subject of PALS two blog posts

http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/3066/biscuits-cookies-and-nuclear-bombs
http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/2088/blair-on-the-ever-ready-misileer

A Black Swan and a Fortune Cookie

[Anonymous Coward]

Two comments:
Recommended book, The Fortune Cookie Chronicles, by Jennifer 8. Lee

From a review of the book, "Lottery officials suspected fraud when 110 people got 5 out of 6 of the lottery numbers in the March 30, 2005 Powerball lottery draw. Instead, the culprit turned out to be the fortune cookie..." People were playing the lucky numbers in the fortune that came in the cookies. Only a few dozen or so lucky numbers appeared in the cookies.

This is more serious. Book, The Black Swan, Nassim Taleb tells the story of the statistician versus a street wise cab driver he knows. If you flip a coin 99 times and get heads, what should you bet on the next flip. The statistician will tell you the next flip has a 50-50 chance either way. The cab driver will tell you to bet heads, because there is a very good chance the coin is fixed. I'll side with the politician.

Setting a password to 0000000, or 0123 (this is the out-of-the box code to access the remote controls of one of my answering machines. Considering the potential risk to the human race if it's hacked---I've left it on that default setting) may stasticially be the same as 28761810 or 9447, but as the above stories illustrate, other factors come in.

Imagine a mass number crunching computer attack by someone expecting it to take days to get a password, and the person(s) running it being pleasantly surprised that they crack the password in a millisecond because the first number the attack program started with was 000000.

Of course it should be 00000000

[Anonymous Coward]

Well what if your in the middle of eradicating humanity and you forget the key? That was always the big worry, that is they would not be used.

Re:Isn't the actual launch code for a nuclear warh

[__aaltlg1547]

No, that will make it blow up wherever it is. We're talking about launching the rocket.

Email

[thomas.galvin]

But the password to my email has to be sixteen characters, with at least one upper case, one lower case, a number, a symbol, an umlaut, a character from the pinyin alphabet, and one of those Arabic squiggles. Assholes.

"That's a battery!" "Correct, horse!"

00000001 would not work

[CurryCamel]

If I had to launch a nuclear knowing I'd be killing hundreds of thousands of people, I guess my hands would shake pretty badly. Eight zeros would probably be as complex a encryption key I could manage, and I'd probably foul that too by hitting seven or nine zeros.

No, I never qualified for the nuclear troops. Me, I'm just a grunt with an AK-47. I'd probably fare as badly with that one too.

Damn!

[PPH]

I've been sitting here, entering "Joshua" all this time.

Re:Damn!

[eyenot]

Did you remember to say it out loud while you typed it?

Also, it's no good if you don't hack into the mainframe first.

According to Hollywood...

[ctrl-alt-canc]

password was OPE or 007. Reality seems more boring...

Kennedy's legacy

[Anonymous Coward]

With the recent 50 year anniversary of Kennedy's assassination, there has been a flurry of interest in Kennedy's Presidency. Most sum it up: unrealized potential, but not much accomplished.
I think Kennedy, as Krushchev, and most US Presidents and Soviet Leaders up to circa 1990 had a very great accomplishment: they avoided nuclear war.
Kennedy and Krushchev had the biggest risk. In the Cuban Missile Crisis, history has revealed the Soviets had ready to use nukes, battlefield nukes, and even nuclear torpedoes on submarines. Almost the entire US military and civilian leadership was in favor of bombing Soviet Missile sites in Cuba, but Kennedy would did not do that. There was a big gamble either way; it turns out the Soviets shorter range nuclear missiles and battlefield nukes, and more important, the authority to use them. The US intelligence did not know this. Had the US bombed Soviet missile sites, it is likely one or more Soviet officer would have ordered one or more nuclear weapon to be used. No approval from Moscow was needed, and in fact communication between Moscow and the Carribean was anything but instantaneous. At the least, the US 5th fleet probably would have been wiped out, and maybe some short range nuclear missiles would have made it to the American South East. The US would then have probably responded with a massive nuclear attack on the Soviet Union, who may have gotten a few ICBM's off to Europe or the US. Look up Soviet Submarine B-59; the captain believed a nuclear war had already started, and ordered a nuclear torpedo to be loaded and launched at the US 5th Fleet after the fleet dropped practice depth charges on them to force them to surface. Another officer, the head of the submarine fleet in the area, vetoed the order.
Other Presidents and Soviet leaders have faced less intense situations, and more than a few instances of flocks of geese imitating bombers, etc. but many have faced potential nuclear wars. The Soviet Union considered nuking China during the Sino-Soviet Border conflict in 1969. Some of these leaders helped build the insane Strangelove technology of nuclear war, some inherited it. But, so far, none have used it.
My thesis is that by the fall of the Soviet Union, the risk has been greatly reduced, now that the US and Russia are part time bosom-buddies (hah).

Kennedy putting in place any measures to restrict access to nuclear weaponry, is well, Strangelovian, and I think it is even more bizzare that: 1. it had not done before, and 2. that I think it's a good bet some Generals thought Kennedy was committing treason for doing it. What? Take control of a weapons system out of the hands of the military?

End of rant. (The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists clock currently is at 5 minutes to midnight)

Re:Illusion shattered (for grandpa)

[Anonymous Coward]

he was probably 1 of 100++ people doing the same thing.

error: lvalue required as increment operand

What a coincidence!

[BitwizeGHC]

That's the same combination I have on my luggage!

A Modest Proposal

[Anonymous Coward]

So to lower your risk of getting addicted to gambling, don't ever bet on the same numbers.

Or how about...just don't gamble. lolsmh

Re:A Modest Proposal

[Anonymous Coward]

Not being addicted does not mean not participating in a particular activity. Being addicted is not the same as regularly participating in a particular activity. Addiction is the inability to stop. "Don't drink alcohol" does not help avoid alcohol addiction. It just makes people feel bad about the wrong thing. If that's your strategy, almost everybody will eventually try it anyway, find no problem with it, and your advice is null and void.

"Security Engineering" 2nd ed. had it ~5 years ago

[BACbKA]

*snort* "Today I found out...", indeed! Pretty old story. Ross Anderson's "Security Engineering" book has this "news" for smth like 5 years already!..http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/book/booksec2.html

Re:Maybe the Roaches will do better with their cha

[dk20]

LOVE the English/Spanish instructions... Well done sir.

Edge Case

[Al Al Cool J]

The really funny thing is that 00000000 is a potential edge case. There could have been a bug in the system where 00000000 is rejected because it's misinterpreted as a null value. Out of a billion possibilities, they chose the one that might not actually have worked.

Try this one

[mosb1000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPphyjkXnPc

Cipher Lock

[gznork26]

Back around 1980, I worked on a secret project at MacDonnell-Douglas. Access to our secret area was controlled by a 4-digit cipher lock, which was set to 1234. But there was an even better security problem one day. We came in Monday morning to find that the wall beside the cipher-lock protected door had been removed. We dutifully called security and reported a stolen wall.

Re:Cipher Lock

[Anonymous Coward]

Back around 1980, I worked on a secret project at MacDonnell-Douglas

Sure you did. That's why you spelled the name of the company wrong.

Re: Illusion shattered (for grandpa)

[Anonymous Coward]

So, when the number comes up, he'll quickly be grousing about how little he got, and all his friends will know not to hit him up for it, and just think of him as the same lovable jerk they always knew.

Whereas the person who acually wins without having to split it loses his friends, his job, his wife --oh and 70% of the money --oh , and gets taxed more heavily too -- and winds up absolutely miserable.

On the 20th anniversary of the Md state lottery, the Washington Post tried to track down the winners of the first year. They found something like 11 of them, IIRC. They asked how winning had changed their life, and one answered that there was essentially no change; the rest said that it was the worst thing that could have ever happened.

1000000 x value ($1) is much greater than value($1000000).

Nope.

[agapeton]

Upon reading the title, I got excited and tried it on my phone. We are still here. I guess I should have read the whole thing first.

Re:Ooh. Look Out!

[Aighearach]

What if it turns out that 1,2,3,4,5,6 is a very rare combination? Then he is maximizing his chances.

Nuff said.

[meglon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JNGI1dI-e8

Hehe

[Anonymous Coward]

Never NEVER blame malice terrorism or espionage on what 9 times out of 10 is either Sheer laziness or a Squirrel stuck between poles of a transformer.

It obviously worked

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone unauthorized ever launch a nuke?

Re:Ooh. Look Out!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my, he has to split a hypothetical jackpot with 100 hypothetical people because they all played the same hypothetical common numbers. Whereas if he would have chosen random numbers, he would be splitting his hypothetical winnings of JACK SHIT and the other hypothetical 100 people are 1/101th better off and not regretting those common numbers at all.

Who cares if he has to split $100M with 100 people? After taxes, he's still much more wealthy for it.

Actually, PAL wasn't the issue.

[Dr. Crash]

IIRC, the issue was that the US Navy fleet ballistic subs _always_ had the authority to launch on their own. The Air Force didn't like the idea that the navy was "trusted" but they weren't, so the PAL code was set to 00000000 and never changed (just like how the "war plan 1" and "war plan 2" control on a Minuteman control desk was never used).

And it's not just two guys turning keys. It's much more secure, really. Each silo has two guys who have to turn keys. But that doesn't launch the missile. It sends a message to all missile silos in the wing - and also ALL OTHER command silos in the wing that someone wants to launch a missile. If nobody else _also_ does a keyturn, the missile does not launch. After that message goes out, there is a time window where another silo MUST also do a keyturn to allow the missile to launch, and a _longer_ time window where _any_ silo in the wing can issue a "stand down" order (and other silos include silos that are off-duty, have no missiles under direct control (e.g. the usually-unused control silo three floors underground under the base commander's office), or are "air silos", like a control silo located in an aloft KC-135, with HF radio links rather than copper wiring).

Now, there is a thing called "sole survivor" where there's a rather long timer (90 minutes, IIRC) where a silo can launch on only one keyturn, but that requires that all other silos be silent for that entire timer period (but that also allows one silo to take over and control the entire missile wing).

Forgive me if I got any of this wrong, it's been 30 years since I read the manual.

But PAL wasn't to stop Broken Arrow scenarios. It's to satisfy Congress. The real protection against Broken Arrows was twenty thousand airmen all keeping their wits about them. I salute them.

time travel ...

[teratux]

Great !! Now that we all know that when time travel gets invented we'll know exactly how to use them.

Read Gregory Chaitin on random numbers

[oldestgeek]

He defines it as one that can't be expressed in fewer bits than the number itself has. In effect, prime numbers are the random set.

I'm Lost

[Anonymous Coward]

I always figured the code was 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

Minecraft 1.7.3

[AbominousSalad]

...needs a special World Generation Seed in commemoration of this story ;)

Not news.

[Anonymous Coward]

This "news story" has been on Wikipedia for years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Permissive_Action_Link&oldid=115989671
A history link from 2007.

And there were other links in the chain than just said combination. Equally, it could be feared that anything complex and not written down could be forgetten.

Think about it: You are an officer of the U.S. Air Force and have just been given orders to launch because you have also just found out Washington is a radioactive cinder. You have under five minutes before your command site and silos are wiped out. By the way, what's the lock combination of the last padlock you had that's no longer in your possession? Can't remember? There you go.

00000000

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the words population after you are done firing.

Re: Random and the other guy would be like "OK"

[PeterJamesFoote]

But the reason there were always two, highly trained, regularly tested, drilled with no idea of whether or not the actions they were taking were a drill or not was because that envelope with the correct code would never be opened unless it was an actual war scenario. There were supposedly multiple envelopes to chose from and the incoming signal determined which one was to be opened, presumably with targeting instructions. But if the code was incorrect, turning the firing keys would do nothing. The go/no go decision had nothing to do with whether the code given looked "right" it had to do with whether procedures were being followed correctly. Source: War Games One of the major points of the film was the warning about what could happen if we let all people involved stop thinking. After WWII we did not allow the excuse "I was just following orders." After a nuclear holocaust it is important to remember that the world that manages to survive may not be very forgiving either of a nation that initiates a nuclear war for whatever reason.

Re: Random number generation

[PeterJamesFoote]

The issue of generating random numbers using any means other than physically drawing objects blindly from a container, with or without replacement is problematic. Spreadsheets may have improved their algorithms for generating random numbers but in the '80's and '90's they were at best "pseudo random numbers" which became clear if you had to use them to draw say a random sample of bus or rail one-way trips from a route or system schedule to meet FTA (formerly UMTA) sampling requirements. When testing the use of automated methods it became clear that the generators were highly dependent on the time the sample was drawn and if you just did all the calculations of say 1,024 random numbers at once, you could see the way the seed moved through the cells as it calculated each consecutive random number. Ways around this, such as not looking at the screen hitting the calc key for each cell at "random" times then recording those times were tested and this improved results. But using computers to provide results that were both entirely automated and appeared truly random remained elusive. But I've been out of it for more than a decade, I'm sure things have improved with the incredible calculation speeds available today. Or have they?

Don't use this passcode...

[Anonymous Coward]

86753090, that one belongs to Jenny.

Re: Random number generation

[AK Marc]

seeded random numbers are a great thing. They don't work for true randomness, but are close enough, and repeatable. The "repeatable" was the great thing. Especially when debugging something.