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The Whole Story Behind Low AP CS Exam Stats
theodp writes "At first glance, the headline in The Salt Lake Tribune — Very Few Utah Girls, Minorities Take Computer Science AP Tests — appears to be pretty alarming. As does the headline No Girls, Blacks, or Hispanics Take AP Computer Science Exam in Some States over at Education Week. Not One Girl Took The AP Computer Science Test In Some States warns a Business Insider headline. And so on and so on and so on. So how could one quibble with tech-giant backed Code.org's decision to pay teachers a $250 "Female Student Bonus", or Google's declaration that 'the ultimate goal of CS First is to provide proven teaching materials, screencasts, and curricula for after-school programs that will ignite the interest and confidence of underrepresented minorities and girls in CS,' right? But the thing is, CollegeBoard AP CS exam records indicate that no Wyoming students at all took an AP CS exam (xls) in 2013, and only a total of 103 Utah students (xls) had reported scores. Let's not forget about the girls and underrepresented minorities, but since AP CS Exam Stats are being spun as a measure of CS education participation (pdf) and equity, let's not forget that pretty much everyone has been underrepresented if we look at the big AP CS picture. If only 29,555 AP CS scores were reported (xls) in 2013 for a HS population of about 16 million students, shouldn't the goal at this stage of the game really be CS education for all?"
Newspaper editors for writing catchy headlines,
researchers for writing research that both asks hard questions and lands funding, or
voters for permitting the government to underwrite such research in the first place?
I say blame the voters, who (a) are getting away with way too much these days, and (b) are unlikely to hit back.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Why is it alarming? People are different, genders are different. What's alarming is that every single job has to be 50-50% by law it seems. Oh except low-paying grunt jobs then it's OK that only men apply there.
How recent is the CS AP exam? I couldn't take CS classes at my high school - I graduated in '98 and high school level comp sci wasn't even a thing yet except at specialty schools. So, the exam itself is probably less than 15 years old - I suspect it's much newer than that.
AP exams also cost money to take, and they're only worth it if the college you're planning to attend accepts it in exchange for credit. How many colleges accept a passing AP exam score to opt out of Comp Sci 101?
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
Almost no colleges offer credit for taking AP tests regardless of score so high schoolers have absolutely no reason whatsoever to take those tests. You can either study for just your real final exams that actually go into your grades or you can add in an even harder test that benefits you in no way. Hmm, tough one. Oh and they typically charge money to take the tests as well.
I took AP Computer Science AB exam in either 1995 or 1996. It was given in PASCAL. Though I did very well on it, by the time I was Freshman in college (in 1998), all it qualified me to do was take a 1-credit "C for PASCAL programmers" course. According to Wikipedia, some version of the AP CS exam has been given since 1984.
"World to End; Women, Minorities Hardest Hit"
This is an Advanced Placement exam, so we expect few people will take it. You only take this exam if:
- You are going into the field
- You went to a school that taught the advanced stuff
- You have an interest in that as a major
- You think you will pass it
- Your intended college will give you something for it
So when very few students take it, that isn't a big problem. I bet the next headline on this topic will be in a few years from now, when some organization has 50% of the population taking the exam and they want to either lower the passing criteria because so few students pass it, or change the test because everyone teaches to the test and colleges stop accepting it because it is a useless measure.
You mostly increase participation in this test by making sure that those students who meet the above criteria are aware of it. I know people who may have passed it, but never knew it was available or were intimidated by it, etc.
Almost no colleges offer credit for taking AP tests regardless of score so high schoolers have absolutely no reason whatsoever to take those tests.
That's not remotely true. Each college has their own policies on if/how they accept AP classes for college credit but many do give credit for AP courses. I coach about 20 high school students in a sport and about 2/3rds of them take at least some AP courses. (smart group of kids, average GPA is around 3.6) Quite a few colleges accept them if your score is high enough. Furthermore AP classes can be beneficial in getting certain scholarships even if they aren't accepted for credit.
Oh and they typically charge money to take the tests as well.
Many states and municipalities subsidize the cost of taking these exams. Even unsubsidized, the cost of the exams in 2013 was $89 which is hardly prohibitive for a lot of students. Nearly half a million students took the AP English exam in 2013.
Well, hey, I'm a white midget.
I want to play professional basketball.
And I want to be a fashion designer.
There aren't enough white male midget fashion designers.
Where's my scholarships?
That's the point. They don't care about "non-minority" males. PERIOD. Their only concern are the aforementioned "minority" groups.
The interesting thing is that in a field largely created by white males, the "new" white male beneficiaries of all who came before them now want to declare ownership of the field and decide who should and shouldn't have access to its rewards. Pretty grotesque, don'tcha think?
shouldn't the goal at this stage of the game really be CS education for all?
If you really mean Computer Science rather than general IT skills or computer literacy then no. True some subject should give a taster of what computer science involves, but most people need to understand computer science to do what they do with computers as much as they need to understand automotive mechanics to drive or fluid dynamics to run their washing machine.
I took the AP Computer Science exam in 1986. The class was very popular in my high school, but there wasn't room for a lot of students, so the class was offered during zero-hour, before most classes started. That meant to be in the class, you had to show up an hour early for school.
And interestingly, this was at Boise High School, and Idaho is one of the states cited in the original article. Apparently there were still only 50 students taking the exam last year. We had a third of that number back in 1986 from just my school, though I suspect we were the only school in the state to offer the class.
AP CS stats spin in Sunday's LA Times by a member of Code.org's Advisory Board: 'Unfortunately, only a narrow band of students - predominantly white and Asian males - is developing the necessary skills to step into these high-paying jobs in computer science. Latinos, African Americans and girls of all ethnic backgrounds are being left behind. In 2013, 29,555 students took the Advanced Placement computer science exam, but only 18% were female, 4% African American and 3% Mexican American...A great majority of today's computer scientists started down their career paths because of "preparatory privilege."'
Don't they realise that the IT industry runs on coffee!
>that could cause a shortage of supplicants?
Don't bring 802.1X into this.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I went to a large, fairly rural high school in a not-particularly-poor area. We had AP U.S. history and AP English. That's it.
Many of you (especially those of you who read and write the New York Times) come from adequately-funded suburban schools, and while you've watched The Wire and think you know what urban schools are like, you have no idea how weak the educational programs at rural high schools are.
But there's a flip side to this as well, individuals who may have no real interest in a particular field are being herded into them at the prodding of these social crusaders. How is it any better for society to tell a female or a minority, "We don't like the field you chose so choose again and make sure you choose the one WE want you to be in." What sort of bias does that represent? If a person chooses not to take a choice based on a perception of bias in that choice, *AT THE LEAST* they have had an opportunity to exercise a choice. In the social crusader's paradigm, that person at the worst HAS NO CHOICE and at best can make another choice and endure potential public shaming. There are a plethora of articles out there of women being shamed for making choices in their own interest that do not hew closely enough to preferences of the dominating social crusader class.
The AP exam rate for this course might not be a very good metric at all for measuring how many kids are going to go into CSci for their undergrad. When I did my undergrad I found that the AP credits I qualified for generally were only applied if they were for courses outside my major. Hence if you had a qualifying AP CSci score but majored in CSci it didn't count, while if you were majoring in something else it did.
What my high school classmates and I did with this information, then, was use it to justify taking AP tests in our non-major courses so we could get out of some of the LibEd coursework that would otherwise fill up our undergrad schedules when we could otherwise be taking higher-level math and science courses.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
No, really. It's like with math. If you are serious about either the CS or other science field you go and take those classes at a community college. The HS program is built around the low-common denominator. The rationalization to spend money on programs that will have a low ROI is not there. You are going to need a school district with a lot of kids and with a lot of kids interested in sciences in order to promote the better science programs. This is how you get the magnet schools where they pool all these like minded kids together as it's more effective, money wise, to have these programs in one location. Spreading them out over an entire school district would be costly and would ultimately be under utiltized. So, if you are really good at math and computer science, etc, the best option for everyone is to go to a commuity college and take those courses. Not only will you learn more, the equipment will probably be better, and, you can actually transfer these credits into a four-year program. I think a solution would be for a HS to focus on being a HS and for kids that have the talent refer them to a better equipped facility, at no additional cost to the parents.
In high school ('93-'97), I took every AP class I could (CS, English, Chemistry, History, etc). Each class had about 20 to 30 people in it, and I don't think a single one of us took the AP exam. AP wasn't so much about being able to take an exam to get college credit, but was more about being challenged. For me, I specifically did it to better prepare me for college. And honestly, it made college easier, and I did better overall than I would have otherwise.
I can imagine that US companies could find about three people with Bachelors in CS to work at the same rate they'd have to pay your nephew. And fifteen are applying for the same job.
Honestly, outside of academia and professional degrees (doctor, lawyer, etc), it doesn't make much sense to get a post-grad education in the US unless you know there's a job lined up for it.
Nerds are only openly hostile toward the world at large because it was openly hostile to us first.
I'm guessing you self identify as a "nerd". That's cool, I suppose I am one as well - I certainly was one in my youth. But I'm relatively old compared to most of the folks reading this so maybe I've gained a little insight. Hope it helps.
The world is NOT any more hostile to "nerds" than to anyone else. Almost everyone finds the world to be a harsh place because it is. But not because it is hostile but rather because it is indifferent. If you act hostile towards the world just because you perceive you are being treated unjustly then you are in all likelihood simply hurting yourself. Your value and how you will be treated is based on what you can do for other people. Hard to be of value to others if you are openly hostile towards them. You cannot control how the world treats you but you can control how you respond to it. Think of it this way, would you respond well to someone who thinks the world hates them and lashes out at everyone?
In reality a lot of "nerds" are pretty smart people who in the long run do rather well for themselves. Smarts in the adult world is a highly valued commodity. Develop some social skills to go along with those smarts and that's a recipe for success. Your value in the this world is based on what you can do for other people. Companies do not hire you because you are a nice guy or a hard worker. Women do not date you because of your high IQ. You have to bring more to be of value. You social status is based on what you can do for others and what assets you bring to the party. In school being smart mostly only benefits yourself. Among young people with undeveloped empathy and social skills, this can be a hard social situation at times but it doesn't mean "nerds" have it worse than anyone else. I assure you that it is no easier to be socially adept but academically challenged - different but no easier. Very few people have the whole package.
Unfortunately, we have become so mired in politically correct bullshit that it's now almost a crime to actually tell the truth about anything. A lack of women or minorities in a particular field is not a "problem" which needs to be fixed.
The US is well on its way to becoming majority Hispanic.
The geek may be well on the way to be as marginalized by a minority and aging white population as the GOP.
Tech is designed and built for markets. If you haven't a clue about what women want from tech, what Hispanics want from tech, you are not going to prosper in a 21st century economy,
without anything more than a few months of pragmatic training on how to write software
Yea, those are the kind of "coders" who write websites like Healthcare.gov
failures in tech can be placed on the PHB's not the techs doing the work.
A lack of women or minorities in a particular field is not a "problem" which needs to be fixed.
You should not be so certain of that. The question is NOT should more women be in CS (or engineering in general) but rather why do not more women enter in the first place? The reason we care about the answer is because of the subtext question which is "are we getting the best possible people into the field?". It is reasonable to ask if we are unintentionally (or intentionally) driving talented women away from the field who might otherwise make valuable contributions.
Fact: People who want to study CS will enroll in CS classes. People, regardless of race or gender, who have no interest in CS, will not enroll in CS classes or take CS tests.
That is true but it isn't really the question being asked. The question is WHY does CS tend to skew so heavily male? I've got an engineering degree and the only field that seems to skew more heavily male is the catholic priesthood. I had many classes where less than 5% of the students were women. As a professional it is quite uncommon for me to run into female engineers. Unlike activities requiring raw physical strength, engineering does not obviously confer any physiological advantage to men so it seems reasonable to ask why so few women enter the field? No one has a definitive answer so far but that merely indicates that the question is a difficult one, probably with a multi-factorial answer. Perhaps the answer is uninteresting and things are fine the way they are but we don't know that unless we ask the question and search for the answer.
Why can't geeks just be geeks, as though they were Aboriginal, or something?
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
When I was in HS , HS girl were most NOT interested into physic, math, and similar (like CS), but were overrepresented in the rest. That despite all the professors trying to make more girl goes into those domain (not a new phenomena). 20 years later it is more of the same. Maybe, just maybe, the average girl/women are not that interrested into pure abstract logic in average ? Just like the average man is not interrested (in average) in teaching young schooler ?
Similar reasons. Media discourages women from doing anything unladylike. Women internalize this. If one highschool girl tries to defect, the girls surrounding her will helpfully step in to enforce these rules. Unfortunately, there's little chance for a normal highschool student to avoid problematic people.
When in shop class with two girls and twenty boys, the two girls will feel quite out of place -- we're told constantly that gender is one of the core parts of our identity, and they have relatively few allies on that front in the classroom. This is true even if the boys there are all don't make an issue of gender, as befitting any human.
Then, for those who want to get a career in something tech-oriented, they need to get into the relevant guild. If those guilds have a strong reputation of gender discrimination, that will serve as a disincentive to people to start the initial training in that line of work.
I did the AP for Calculus. Tested out but I knew exams were BS so I took Calculus in college. It could have been a different course. The difference was HUGE. The AP thing is a total scam and colleges should not accept it. We were ONLY taught to the AP test.
One single multiple guess exam is not going to measure the result of a college course understanding of a subject. It should be obvious, high school kids do not have the work requirements or motivation that colleges can easily demand. Sure, some do but that is not the norm; the situational and maturity differences make it impossible to expect the same from both. The AP students tend to be the best in the school but if it was handled like a college course the results would be different... more upset parents and failed children.
Keyword: children. The main thing college has which makes it better is that it is for adults. You are not a paying customer (despite trends to the contrary) you will be failed and lose your money. The customer is wrong until they can prove they are right. The filtering that produces elite graduates is what makes it valuable and once we've lost that (which is the trend,) it's just another high school. Big difference between producing functional citizens (public school) and producing valuable employees (primary motive for most college students.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
" . . .underrepresented minorities . ." ?!?!?!?!?! More democrat bigotry and racism!!! How were they underrepresented? They were not oppressed. They were not kept from participating. The "girls" in the article had just as much chance as the so called "minorities" or the non-minorities!!! We are sick and frustrated by this continual training by the democrat party that people are part of oppressed minority groups and must have special consideration!!! God made us all equal and that is stipulated in the founding documents of the United States! democrats, facists, socialists, communists, humanists, etc., all need to stop trying to promote oppression and racism!! democrats forget that they were the party that blocked the civil rights amendment so many years ago!
The goal can be both widespread CS education and increased participation by minorities and women. If you think about it, currently there are underrepresented groups so it makes sense to target remedies to that problem or else they will still persist even as you increase overall participation if those problems are somehow inherent in the current system,
I took a breast feeding class when we had my first child. I do not produce the milk in my family, however, and while there may be few ladies entering some technical fields in certain schools, I suspect that it's more to do with a BAD SCHOOL than with some barrier to women actually getting into a computer course.
Nobody tried to stop me from taking a course in breast feeding, though I didn't see a lot of dads in the class. Shocking.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Oh boy, you don't have to take Calculus I-III since you got a 5 on the calc bc. You still need 4 math courses. They just start out at a higher level. Oh, by the way, you only need Calc I-III and difeq for this degree. Retake Calc I-III for an easy 3 classes.
If you don't have a desire to learn then I guess AP classes are a waste. But I was very happy every time I could test out of a basic class even though I received no credit just because it let me take a higher level class. I never considered it bad that I was still "forced" to take a database class that taught about B-trees and query optimization because I tested out of the one that taught what a SELECT clause is. I always considered that a pretty good deal.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
"shouldn't the goal at this stage of the game really be CS education for all?"
- shouldn't the goal at this stage of the game really be Art History education for all?
- shouldn't the goal at this stage of the game really be Macroeconomics education for all?
- shouldn't the goal at this stage of the game really be Diesel Mechanic education for all?"
-
-...
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
I am reminded of this comic. Of course, that's just a joke. The trouble with people attempting sociology is that they have no idea what the rest of the world go through, but only focus on stories they want to see. For my part I never knew about people respecting what nerds learn before, "math sucks" and all that. But I didn't care. And now I care less for people who tell I need to change, or that math and CS should be taught to everyone. Because I'm certain they are not for everyone, but only for those who will learn even if you don't tell them to. Even the worst racist will find it hard to deny your merits in these fields, so any sufficiently smart kid would just disregard the politics.
I'm from Wyoming so I feel I have to defend it a bit. According to the data provided, roughly 0.0018471875 of high school students take the CS AP exam. There are roughly 25,792 high school students in Wyoming. I don't know how valid that data is, but it looks close enough to the truth. Assuming equal distribution from Freshman - Senior, that means there are roughly 6448 seniors. In reality, there are fewer seniors than that due to drop outs, people who move, etc. Statistically, then, up to 12 students should take the CS exam. 12 students is one class, which means Casper and/or Cheyenne are the only ones big enough to have that many interested in CS.
But it's not just a numbers problem. People in Wyoming just don't have a need for programmers, so it's hard to justify a curriculum that contains it to the school boards. There are a few small companies in Wyoming that do software, and mining/drilling companies have need of people who can program VBA in excel, but that's really all there is in Wyoming programming-wise.
I never heard of an AP CS class when I was in Wyoming(graduated high school in '07), but I would've taken it if it was offered. I literally took every electronics/programming related course that was offered. The problem, though, is that a class like AP CS would - at most - contain 5 students in any given year. My group of friends was the largest to go through the school with an interest in CS, which is where I'm getting the 5 from. We ended up creating a Computer Club, which was mainly attended by us and a few people who were curious from time to time and was quickly destroyed when we left with no one to carry the torch. I've stayed in touch with teachers over the years and at best they have 2-3 students that are interested in programming like we were.
However, it isn't surprising to see Utah with so many students. It doesn't look like a lot, but by using the same data source and calculations as Wyoming, you could expect up to 60 students to take the AP CS exam, and they're about double that. That makes sense to me, because Utah always has multiple teams in the top 10 for the rocky mountain region in the ACM's ICPC.
When there is a glut of STEM graduates anyway.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
as we're always told I think they'll have no problem making up their own mind about what they want to do without the media constantly telling them. And they'll be perfectly capable of doing it without any need for outside paternalistic advantage or encouragement.
You may be old enough that you aren't familiar with schools these days. I can assure you that for very many young "nerds", the world is actively and openly hostile towards intelligence, which makes it rather hard to develop those social skills
It's NOT about intelligence. It's about being different. I work directly with dozens of school children between the ages of 11 and 18 on a daily basis for about 4 months every year. Children will ostracize ANYONE who is different in any way but this is hardly limited to intelligence. Smart, dumb, awkward, foreign, racially different, accents, fat, skinny, small, large, it doesn't matter. If you are notably different then you will be harassed in some manner. Children do not have fully developed senses of empathy. Learning to deal with this is actually a valuable part of growing up. I run into overly sheltered children all the time who have NO idea how to deal with difficult situations. Painful as it may be sometimes, it is a part of social development.
But if you're trying to tell me that struggling with schoolwork is as emotionally painful as struggling socially, I absolutely disagree.
I am someone who at times has struggled with both schoolwork and social awkwardness. I am fairly smart and eventually attended some top universities but for various reasons I was a mediocre to poor student for most of my academic career, barely passing at times and was almost held back at least twice. I also was a shy and socially awkward kid with a funny name. YES, they both are crushing. It can be absolutely demoralizing to do poorly on schoolwork. Some people don't care just like some people don't care what others think but if you do care (and most do) it is devastating. You get told you will never amount to anything, that your future is hopeless, that you are trailing your peers and won't catch up, that teaching you is a waste of time. Worthless, hopeless, dumb, useless. I know because I've heard all that and none of it because of my social skills. If you think that isn't devastating to a young ego then you really don't get it. It doesn't just come from your peers, it comes from teachers and parents and adults who barely know you.
A socially adept bad student has, by definition, plenty of friends and support to fall back on, and his peers won't think any less of him for his poor education (until he graduates, at least)
I assure you that bad students get ridden every bit as hard if not worse than smart ones. I see it constantly. Even the ones with lots of friends get harassed by those very same "friends". The only reason they hang out is because the need for social inclusion is so strong that they will put up with being treated badly.
On the other hand, a nerd has few or no friends, and is openly derided and shunned by his peers.
Most people have few real friends. Nerds generally have their own social circles and in reality very few people fit the social pariah model you describe. It's more a question of degree.
With 90% of my in-state Uni tuition cover by state taxes, I doubt they want to "pad" with more requirements. If anything, there were quite a few 3 credit general courses that counted for 2 different requirements, meaning you could almost cut your require general classes in half. Being that most generals were only 2 credits, it would only reduce credits by 50%, but that would save you money since you pay by credit.
Well, you paid per credit up to 12 credits. After that, credits were free, but you had to have your adviser and department head sign off if taking more than 13 credits. I've seen some people who took 17 credits. No life, but save a lot of money and graduate early.
Most people don't understand the situation there. Least populated state in the Nation. Lots of oil there, but it ain't no Texas. I grew up there and my HS didn't even offer the SAT. We were lucky to be given the opportunity to take the ACT at all. Funding is thin, as it is for most school systems, and I believe that is the prime motivator.
The country bumpkin factor is high, and hicks don't have much need for dem confounded computers and such, the tractor ain't gonna drive itself! (You just wait Mr. Bumpkin, that tech is out there already.)
Keeping the population in state is a challenge, and I'm sure the powers that be aren't keen on giving them tools to empower them to follow a CS path that automatically jumps them out of state. UW and LCCC (Laramie County Community College, widely known as Last Chance Country College) aren't well known for their tech programs.
Tweet, tweet, all id10t's out of the gene pool, open swim is over.
Last I checked, I'm a girl. I took AP Comp Sci in HS, but did NOT take the AP exam. Why? Because it was my planned degree in college, and I knew they wouldn't give me credits in my major, so why pay to take the test? Instead I took a Physics AP exam to cross off a few distribution of studies classes.
Not a lot of gals thought the way I did back in high school. Fact is they liked the english-y and touchy feely subjects more. Please don't press these women to go into a field they are NOT mentally equiped to do well in. Identify the ones that have the potential and encourage them to explore it, but don't put a bounty on their heads. I want the job because I do it well, not because of my genitalia or the color of my flesh.
-JM
Well, you're going to pay for four years of college regardless of what you do in high school. The college will just pad out your schedule with more required courses.
I doubt this is true for many schools that give credit for AP exams. I studied computer engineering. My AP exams got me credit for introductory programming, freshman chemistry, and four of my five humanities electives. That let me graduate a semester early. This is not to say that every AP exam you take will help you graduate earlier, even at colleges that award credit for AP exams. By the time I had to sign up for AP exams my senior year I already knew which college I would be attending. I looked and discovered that two of the exams for AP classes I was taking (English Literature and Statistics) would count for credit but would not help me fulfill any additional degree requirements for any of the majors I was considering at the time. So I saved a bit of money and time studying by skipping those exams.
Funny thing about "minorities"...
When a small percentage of the population has nothing particularly special to offer the rest of the population, we worry about them becoming marginalized and ignored, possibly even subject to prejudice.
The percentages aren't small and the trend lines are running strongly against an all white male geek elite. If he wants high paying high tech jobs to remain in the states, he has to come to terms with a changing population.
When a small percentage of the population has something that everyone wants, something that most people don't have the capacity to get for themselves, and especially something that others can't take by force - We call them "elites", not "minorities".
The Roads Must Roll
This is the technocratic argument that has always haunted the geek elite --- and Heinlein pinned it's pelt to the wall in 1940.
As an industrial civilization expands, its complexities multiply. With each new development the web of interlocking units becomes more tangled. Each small unit grows more important, more susceptible to shock, more liable to halt the entire organism with its own individual breakdown.
--- Introduction to the Modern Library edition.
When an elite becomes too arrogant, too powerful, its power is broken.
If we're requiring (or at least desiring) that X% of coders (or employees, or whatever) are of each ethnic group where X is representative of their proportionality in a given population, logically this means that there should be ceilings on participation as well, as the entire exercise is zero-sum.
Let's use gender as that's a relatively simple binary proposition (let's assume so, anyway). If 48.8% of the population is male, and 51.2% is female, then If we're saying that we'd "prefer" 51% of the coders be female, we ipso fact must ALSO conclude that we don't want MORE than 51% of the females to be coders, or this will mean that too few men are coders. (Unless, that is, you're a hypocrite who believes that only certain groups are "due" such protection; then you're not about fairness at all, but in honesty nothing more than a tendentious cheerleader picking a side.)
Of course, this gets far more complicated with ethnicity: if we recognize that 12.6% of Americans are African-American, and we are willing to bend our rules, admissions processes, hiring standards, etc to make sure that is represented in our employment figures, again, one must ABSOLUTELY fire any greater number of blacks in any job to ensure that native americans, asian americans (of every flavor, of course), latinos, inuit, etc all get fair representation.
-Styopa
I'll bet you took AP Language and AP Calculus AB, which are worthless. You would have gotten credit if you'd taken AP Literature and AP Calculus BC.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
This is asymmetric bullshit.
Where, for example, are all the calls for affirmative action to encourage more white men into nursing? (which is 91.4% filled by women, and health is a field that African Americans are more likely to work in than any other )?
I accidentally posted this as AC, didn't mean to do that. Since that means it will probably never be seen, reposting it.
The problem is that researchers have demonstrated that there are external forces that drive the gender disparity in STEM fields. It begins around middle school -- before that, there's about equal interested in math and sciences between boys and girls. Those conducting the studies looked for schools or districts that were graduating significantly more female students planning on STEM careers than the average and then sought out the reasons for those differences. One of the biggest differences they saw was that those areas in which female students were not losing interest were ones in which the female students had personal contact with female role models actively working in STEM professions.
If it's simply biological gender difference explaining the gender divide, then fine. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Rather, there are systemic issues that result in girls having less confidence in their abilities that seem to be driving them out of areas in which they initially expressed interest. That is a problem.
While I applaud companies that promote equality in all forms (and from my personal experience as a white male, I've find the more diverse companies to generally be much better work environments with sharper staff overall), trying to fix the problem at the hiring level is too little, too late. Instead, we need to be more focused on reaching girls early and letting them know that 1) girls, overall, are just as capable in STEM fields and 2) they can be happy and fulfilled in STEM careers.
You know what else begins around middle school? Puberty.
Which is why I pointed out that there are pockets around the nation that don't see as broad a gender inequity. If it was simply due to biological differences that are brought on my puberty, the decline in STEM interest among girls should drop by roughly the same rate everywhere. But that's not the case -- there are areas where such a precipitous drop does not occur. So it seems like we can rule out those changes being due solely (or even primarily) to innate physiological/neurological changes -- there must be something different about those environments. And sure enough, there were, and it points to sociological pressures working against some girl's natural predilection.
You've failed to rule out the alternative hypothesis of sociological pressures working against some girl's natural predilection against STEM. This is particular relevant because the only sociological pressure you mentioned is a positive one, pushing girls towards STEM.
Your analysis borders on idiotic, the wrong side. Non-minority males are not accused of bias, the biases are in the systems that lead to advancement for many but can not be exploited by others. Can you point to any one of these constraints that is systematically limiting white males?
healthcare.gov wasn't written by coders. It was written by politicians and PHBs, which is why it will never function properly no matter what. All the heavy CS thinkers in the world couldn't have changed this.
Pandering to minorities = more votes for Democrats.
Or the "designers" and "marketers" that have more sway over management that the peon engineers that have to make the crap "designs" work. I highly doubt you could get Raymond Chen on record as saying the Win8 start menu was a good idea.
I'm also concerned that the Salt Lake tribune uses all caps on a headline as if they're writing a title.
Pick up any major newspaper, I don't think you will see every significant word capitalized.
Arrgh!
Thank you for reading this.
ODF
If your only tool is a hammer, you'll approach every problem as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow