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Religion Is Good For Your Brain
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Sheila M. Elred writes in Discovery Magazine that a recent study has found that people at risk of depression were much less vulnerable if they identified as religious. Brain MRIs revealed that religious participants had thicker brain cortices than those who weren't as religious. 'One of the worst killers of brain cells is stress,' says Dr. Majid Fotuhi. 'Stress causes high levels of cortisol, and cortisol is toxic to the hippocampus. One way to reduce stress is through prayer. When you're praying and in the zone you feel a peace of mind and tranquility.' The reports concluded that a thicker cortex associated with a high importance of religion or spirituality may confer resilience to the development of depressive illness in individuals at high familial risk for major depression. The social element of attending religious services has also been linked to healthy brains. 'There's something magical about socializing,' says Fotuhi. 'It releases endorphins in the brain. It's hard to know whether it's through religion or a gathering of friends, but it improves brain health in the long term.'" (Read more, below.)
"Listening to sermons and reading religious works like the Bible may also invoke a cognitive benefit. "You're exercising your higher cortical function, thinking about complex concepts that require some imagination," says Harold G. Koenig, director of the Center for Spirituality, Theology, and Health at Duke University and a professor of psychiatry. According to Koenig the benefits of devout religious practice, particularly involvement in a faith community and religious commitment, are that people cope better. "In general, they cope with stress better, they experience greater well-being because they have more hope, they're more optimistic, they experience less depression, less anxiety, and they commit suicide less often. They don't drink alcohol as much, they don't use drugs as much, they don't smoke cigarettes as much, and they have healthier lifestyles. They have stronger immune systems, lower blood pressure, probably better cardiovascular functioning, and probably a healthier hormonal environment physiologically—particularly with respect to cortisol and adrenaline And they live longer." So where does that leave non-believers? "Out of luck, I guess," Koenig jokes. "Actually, I would suspect that people doing the types of things like religious people do — socializing, doing similarly complex cognitive tasks, would have similar benefits. But it is interesting that religion provides that whole package of things that people can adopt and pursue over time." Dr Dan Blazer says the study is very interesting but is still exploratory and that spirituality may be a marker of something else, such as socioeconomic status. "It's hard to study these things," concludes Fotuhi . "It's why research has stayed away from them. But there does seem to be a strong link between spirituality and better brain health.""
You can go pray to your invisible sky daddy. I'll just continue believing in sanity and meditation.
A thinking person should investigate religion, but not necessarily buy into it.
The Discovery article makes it pretty clear towards the end that it is not religious belief, but religious activities, that are likely responsible for the cognitive benefits.
Its not so bad as long as you can keep the fear from your mind.
and it keeps your arms in good shape too!
One way to reduce stress is through prayer.
And in 2014, we also call it meditation. We have also learned, you dont have to be religious to meditate.
Religion makes you stupid. In particular the ability to recognize your true situation is something the mental pathogen needs to degrade in order to retain its ability to infect and spread. Hence all perceived gains come at a heavy price: You become less human and both free will and rationality is partially suspended by the malicious meme. The claim that this "improves brain health" just shows the effect at work. It is a misdirection that stems from the defensive strategy of the pathogen.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Religion is the opium of the people.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
And you're looking at it through one of those big fancy Perspex displays you can see at the local zoo. Most of the ants are running about, doing their daily jobs and generally taking care of what needs to be done.
Then there's a group of ants that meet every couple of days in some remote cave and do strange meaningless things. These are the same ants that tend to break down and appear to do absolutely nothing under stress- it looks like they might be thinking about something really hard, but it's difficult to tell. They seem to do this a lot but nobody really knows why.
What would you say about the behaviour of those ants? What do you think God thinks when he sees his creation unable to cope and doing the same thing?
Jesus is my personal brain-care specialist.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
...to a "higher authority" is pretty damn stressfull in itself. Are there any Gods out there that don't require some type of worship or submission to their will to avoid being punished in some manner? Am I the only who feels that what they demand is more human than Godlike?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
I just can't get past the fact that it's a lie. Anyone who can look beyond that amazes me.
Well, yeah, he could be. But for that to be, you must become the fool who would persist in his folly. Go so deeply into that darkness that only dark remains. Then it's all a great, purgative laugh.
Development is programmable; Discovery is not programmable. (Fuller)
In his case I don't think even the second one applies.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
salam semua indonesia
toko online
Lisa Miller have a spiritual agenda.
Here is her TEDx talk about love and stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Also this study is in contradiction with this study:
Being Religious or Spiritual Is Linked With Getting More Depressed
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.u...
From Lisa Miller:
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.co...
"We previously reported a 90% decreased risk in major depression, assessed prospectively, in adult offspring of depressed probands who reported that religion or spirituality was highly important to them."
From Being Religious or Spiritual Is Linked With Getting More Depressed
"A key finding of the study, conducted in several different counties, is that a spiritual life view predisposed to major depression, especially significantly in the UK, where spiritual participants were nearly three times more likely to experience an episode of depression than the secular group."
Lisa Miller have first to explain this contradiction. Maybe some people get cortical thickness from religion, and some don't. I don't have access to Lisa's article.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
And somehow that makes religious claims true? Reading Game of Thrones is very enjoyable for me but I've never demanded anyone start a real war for Cersei's fictional c***.
Believing that movies are "real" make them enjoyable, but not true. All the crying, pain, emotion shown is just an actor in front of a lot of cameras and people, and probably a green screen behind, but still you feel like it is true, Do the same with religion, suppose that there exist a meaning, luck, justice, etc in life, even someone that you can ask for help and that you can see his hand through confirmation bias. But don't take it too seriously because you know its false. You don't do things that could put your life or of others at risk because you saw someone in an (obviously fiction) movie doing it, take the same attitude regarding religion. Neither you should follow people that claiming that that fiction movie/book was real do things that affect other people lives.
http://contest.bodybuilding.co...
To be religious, you got to turn your brain off. An unused, virgin brain will likely look better than one that was used for critical thinking.
...when it is religion itself that is causing you stress?
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
Correlation does not mean causation. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
In other news, lobotomies are good for people. The less you think, the better you feel. See the full story on Fox News. :P
But seriously, If the results are really more about behaviors, then the REAL problem is that current society does not adequately provide similar social outlets or activities for people who don't happen to believe in imaginary sky beings.
It may be that it helps in the short term, but what about in the long run?
When the stressed individual need to be waned off the childhood delusions all over again?
Ignorance is bliss.
Colour me shocked - an article that's troll-bait for people opposed to religion.
From the article (and the summary): "A thicker cortex associated with a high importance of religion OR SPIRITUALITY [my emphasis] may confer resilience to the development of depressive illness"
So, a different way to read this is that spiritiuality, not just (or not even) religion) can make a difference. I've seen it myself, and it's been shown (no source here) that when people have something "bigger than themselves" in which to believe, it gives them access to strength that wasn't readily available to them before.
I'm not talking about how people use relgion as a shield to be assholes. I'm not talking about how "foolish" it is to hold to a make-believe deity. I'm speaking about how some people derive stength from their faith.
"It doesn't matter what you believe in; just believe" I think is what Sheppard Book said to Cptn Reynolds.
One way to reduce stress is through prayer.
Sex and alcohol work pretty well too. And they are arguably a lot more fun.
I'm immediately reminded of the "news" articles about about the "religious archeologist" who found a sliver of iron from a site in Israel, and pronounced they had found a nail from the crucifixion. What a complete pile of bullshit you get anymore when some social science dumbass tries to figure out anything.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
Or alternatively, people with these attributes (which may actually be positive in any other context) are prone to religion.
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Religion has found itself at the very root of many, many conflicts throughout our history, with religious wars raging on for hundreds of years. Countless lives have been lost due to this.
THAT is an activity we now want to call a anti-depressant?
And people have the gall to call atheists evil for lacking faith.
Religion has also been very good for quantum physics, cosmology, geology and biology. The saying, "God does not play dice" has been very important in elucidating just how strange quantum theory is. In cosmology, because the big bang theory is so compatible with Christian theology, scientist have given it extra scrutiny and tried to defend alternatives much more vigorously. In geology, rigor has been given a boost by odd ball dating schemes based on scripture that oppose an old earth. And, in biology, evolution has needed a more rigorous development owing to religious opposition. Perhaps more fundamentally, with its sorting of existential questions into high priority, "In the beginning" being a starting point, focus and curiosity on foundational questions have been maintained over ages.
Clearly, religion is the key to happiness:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-i...
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/i...
http://media.dumpert.nl/foto/4...
You are welcome on my lawn.
I've got a book by Isaac Newton called, "Optiks" that will give you all of that, without making you want to go out and kill non-believers.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Wow. That's a load of bullshit.
That makes one of us.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Not to invoke an argument, but the TFA talks about listening to sermons and reading the bible.
No. Here is what it says.
"Harold G. Koenig, director of the Center for Spirituality, Theology, and Health at Duke University and a professor of psychiatry"... author of "The Healing Power of Faith", "Faith and Mental Health"... "Listening to sermons and reading religious works like the Bible may also invoke a cognitive benefit, Koenig said."
I.e. Faith guy says maybe faith good for brain.
Also, that Discovery article is crap.
That "One recent study, published in December of 2013 in JAMA Psychiatry" - no it wasn't.
And which study does this sentence refer to? The supposed December 2013 JAMA one (actually published in February 2014) or the 2011 one?
And while a 2011 study found a shrinking of the hippocampus among people of certain religions, Koenig, a co-author of the study, points out that no one has replicated that work yet.
Cause, it either says that Koenig is a co-author of the JAMA study (which he isn't, but which is no made clear anywhere in the article which doesn't even name the study it discusses) and he disagrees with the data from the 2011 study...
OR, he is a co-author of 2011 study (which he was) which says that certain religious people have a shrinking hippocampus.
With which he disagrees as well, pointing out "no one has replicated that work yet".
Koenig is essentially saying "Fuck my study which shows how religion may actually be bad for your brain. Don't look at it. Nothing to see there. Not replicated. Bad study. Bad!"
Also, everything Koenig and that other guy who had nothing to do with the study (he apparently has not even read it) but they asked him to comment on it anyway, Dr. Majid Fotuhi, said about the social effect... pure bullshit.
From the actual study:
Importance of religion or spirituality, but not frequency of attendance, was associated with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital regions, the mesial frontal lobe of the right hemisphere, and the cuneus and precuneus in the left hemisphere, independent of familial risk.
Going to church does not matter. How much you THINK that religion or spirituality matter to you matters.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"Religion is the opiate of the masses" -- Karl Marx
When life sucks (which, face it, is most of the time for most people), religion provides a break from reality. Whether it's better for your brain to be disconnected from reality or to have to accept depressing reality without any cushion is a matter of debate.
I tried this whole 'religion' thing, several times. The last time I tried it? It was literally killing me from the stress that it was creating in my life. I had infections that wouldn't heal until I finally had enough of all the bullshit and got away from religion, religious people, and all the arbitrary nonsense and hipocracy it's completely full of, then my health started turning around. Come on, people, look around you: Religion is just another tool being used to control people's lives and to further political agendas.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
... just don't get hooked.
While it may be fair to say that prayer has this effect, what is prayer? Meditation. Introspective meditation, a form of secular meditation has been under intense scientific study and has been shown to have greater effects on the brain than prayer. It's even heavily endorsed by everyone's favorite Atheist and neuroscientist Sam Harris
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Nobody with a brain has ever had religion.
Religion helps people to cope. By praying and unburdening themselves to a high power filled with the majesty of divine authority and omnipotence, the prayerful absolve themselves of responsibility for the problem before them, its solution, and the consequences of their actions. It is little wonder that Karl Marx is often quoted: "Religion is the opiate of the masses." There are few people less responsive to the stimuli that life presents than drug addicts as evidenced by the wreckage that their lives become. Religion can be just as debilitating and damaging to our lives as drugs as evidenced by the millions and millions of dead killed in the name of some divinely inspired war - jihad, crusade, etc.
The article may have actual basis is science in that the study may actually show a link between certain behaviors and good brain health. The Discovery article buries that in a white wash of religious based bull shit with the authors enthusiastic encouragement. Here's a good example of what I mean:
"“There’s something magical about socializing,” Fotuhi said. “It releases endorphins in the brain. It’s hard to know whether it's through religion or a gathering of friends, but it improves brain health in the long term. And it’s also been shown that people who are introverted and don’t participate are more likely to get Alzheimer’s.”
So is it socializing or sermons? And why do introverted religious people have a higher incidence of Alzheimer's? Surely god likes them too?
Here's the agenda from the author:
"So where does that leave non-believers?
“Out of luck, I guess,” Koenig joked. “Actually, I would suspect that people doing the types of things like religious people do -- socializing, doing similarly complex cognitive tasks, would have similar benefits. But it is interesting that religion provides that whole package of things that people can adopt and pursue over time.”
So the science links certain behaviors to brain health and the "scientist" shows his bias in the publication of the results.
The article and the folks behind it are desperately seeking scientific validation for having religion. They want a particular religion too as they ignore Hinduism and Buddhism and the other meditating religions in this study. They are looking to show that the christian god is the right and proper god because science said so. I'll be you two of Jupiter's moons that this gets used in the push to put creationism or intelligent design in schools.
The entire trick to religion has always been peace of mind. You don't have to think about the hard stuff. Of course the flip side of that is being a bad person.
I'd rather have morals with depression personally.
I have been a devout religious person for over thirty years, and I have been depressed for most of those years. I write into this moshpit of hate for anyone here who might struggle with depression. The religious beliefs of the people around you can uplift you, but they can just as easily degrade your situation until you are depressed. My father beat me from the age of 4 until the age of 13. He didn't do it because of religion, he beat me because I annoyed him and he wanted to shut me up. The religion he chose to line up with merely gave him a convenient excuse. I have had PTSD for most of my life, with verified uncontrollable physical symptoms and many health issues, and have lived most of my life in fear of others. Most of the time it feels like I have never been happy, that there is no point in my life that I could travel back in time to (were it possible) where I would feel a healthy sense of well-being.
I tried many religious disciplines to get rid of my health issues. They all failed.
Eventually I did find a therapy that worked, it's not religious at all. I'm approaching normal function in life, I'd say I'm depressed 2/3rds of the time. If you find that your medication isn't working like it used to and you have to increase the dose, understand that your mental health problem isn't caused by a Prozac deficiency in your diet. The drugs work by shutting off the message your body is trying to send. Your body makes you depressed to solve a stress problem. It's using depression so that you won't lose your reason. Any means of regularly obtaining a "mental reset" will honor the body's request, all the skilled relaxation therapies are just ways to do that. The "prayer" mentioned in the article is one of those relaxation methods, it is not your typical oh-shiat prayer (which believe me I've tried). It's a mantra that you recite over and over again, until it doesn't mean anything anymore, and you relax and get a mental reset.
And of course, my religion didn't forbid any of these kinds of therapies that helped me get well, but the prelates of my religion did, calling them infidelic, probably because I'd do them on the day I'm supposed to attend religious services, and no money would wind up in the plate. There are people who don't care about their fellow man but go to (or hold) religious services for instant credibility and to hook up with like-minded members of the opposite sex, if I just shocked you, I'm sorry. Religious services are not automatically a gathering of saints.
None of this has anything to do with whether you believe an invisible man in the sky is your friend, because any depressed person will tell you that you can have friends and still be depressed. And as to the question, "if he's so good and powerful, why didn't he fix your little problem", the notion of every religion is that such help is not automatically and freely given without condition. As it happened, I tried to follow the tenets of my religious faith, and as it happened I met someone in that faith who showed me this therapy, and as it happened I got better. So I could dare to say, "see, it works", but what's the point of that? I'm not going to say it's going to work for you, because I can't know that, especially because most of you have already insisted that it can't work, and so it's sure to not work for you, because you will see to it that it won't, so that you can be right, and miserable. Let's skip all that, you have the right to remain miserable, I'm not calling that into question.
But if you're bitter because you've tried the failed religious remedies that I've tried, just skip ahead to the skilled relaxation therapy. Then you can ponder your spirituality when you've got a better handle on your situation. If you are religious and are afraid your soul is in danger if you try yoga, meditation, self-hypnosis, etc., then the skilled relaxation method you want is called progressive muscle relaxation. It is religion-free, and you can still take your medicine.
All Cats go to hell. Where they torture their 'owners' for eternity.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Religion is good for your brain as long as some evil fuck doesn't decide to cut your head off because his religion tells him to cut your head off because of your religion.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Yes, believing in some soothing bullshit lessens your stress levels, which has all kinds of benefits.
Believing aliens from outer space will save you at the last second will certainly make going into war easier to cope with as well.
Is there a difference between these? Not really, no. It's just that one is socially acceptable thanks to millenia of indoctrination, while the other one strike almost everyone as ridiculous bullshit.
See, the problem with believing in nonsense is that even if it reduces your stress and makes you feel happy and whatever else, ultimately, you still believe in nonsense and with all the downsides that has. There've been a few recent articles on that. For example, the "let's-destroy-the-planet-for-profit" mindset would have a much harder time if its proponents wouldn't believe in an afterlife and would realize this life on this planet is all we've got.
I've had this argument a hundred times, and it never changes. Yes, religion does some good. And for every good it does, it does two evils.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Because...
"Being Religious or Spiritual Is Linked With Getting More Depressed"
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.u...
So, as usual, pick your side and go with it.
Todays Bookreligions and the way they are praticed are a watered down stoicisim for the mentally challanged and little more.
And of course a well-rounded philosophy of life will help you battle depression and and assaults on your spirits in general.
I'd bet money that stoics and zen-buddists and the like show the least likelyhood of depression, especially compared to followers of abrahamic religions.
Get Seneca, read it and be done with it. All the benefits of religion and then some without any of the downsides.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Guys, did you know that schizofrenia is good for your brain? Your cortex gets thicker! PS: It isn't even clear what the benefits to a slightly thicker cortex are (human cortexes range from 2.4. to 2.7mm), if there any at all. In fact, most posative traits such as intelligence have been attributed to a THINNER cortex, not a thicker one! http://cercor.oxfordjournals.o...
When you're praying and in the zone you feel a peace of mind and tranquility.'
You can get the same effect from simple meditation and breathing exercises, in fact that's really what prayer is, a form of meditation.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Just curious how many people have read Robert Pirsig's book(s) and subscribe to his ideas?
In a nutshell his conclusion is that the irreducible factor of life and the universe is a creation force he calls Quality. Another way to look at it is if everything is a state transition diagram, the mysterious factor is something to be found in the transitions (dynamic Quality) rather than in the states (static Quality). Akin to some aspects of Zen and Eastern philosophy. He goes on to develop these ideas to say that you can build up increasingly complex static Qualities like atomic elements, compounds, even life, from what seems like nothing... but that intangible creative dynamic Quality is there, and yet not so easy to pin down. It isn't so much a thing as it is a force.
Right or wrong I find an odd sort of comfort in this understanding.
No, the poor interpretation of life "eats your brain".
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Actually it would be more appropriate these days to say "TV (or media in general) is the opiate of the masses"
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
If the research shows that relaxing, avoiding stress and using your brain to think about imaginative things is healthy - say so. I'll happily increase the time I spend fishing and soaking up sun at the beach while reading a scifi novel.
None of that stuff has anything to do with religion per se though.
As a researcher, I spend most of my time at work being wrong. I don't have the luxury of proving a past insight/thesis or always trying random combinations. It can wear on you after awhile. It is hope in what is currently unproven (the goal) that keeps me at it. Hope with as much help from reason as possible. Spending each day operating in reason alone is not enough to handle the big questions. When we operate so far out from the known, how do we know we are moving away or towards our goal? Hope is a muscle. The more you exercise it, the more you can sustain operating even further out on the edge of what is known. Those who belittle hope and claim only reason is needed, have no framework to deal with the unknown. And the hope that does operate in secret in their mind is treated as a skinny stowaway. If you rely solely on reason you are just another customer of the known, buying the latest toy. To be original, you have to have experience with the unknown. There are a lot of people trying to handle the unknown. Some have abandoned reason. Some fight the engine of their hope and wonder why they are depressed. Hope is a muscle.
i've always thought singing was the mechanism for the physical bennies: improves breathing/blood oxygenation...and where else can u sing out loud in public w/o appearing loony;-)
the bible also sez get ur drinking water _upstream_ from ur latrine, so of course all religions evolved thru natural selection;-) in a pre-literate world how do u pass on such survival tips? oral traditions wrap them in mnemonic narratives, and how better to enforce their practice than gods' gonna zap u (b4 lightning was understood, which wasn't all that long ago*) if u don't?-)
the downside is when those narratives are elevated to blind obedience/conformity...
*like the response of an undamped resonant system to a step function: we're still oscillating to the introduction of fire ffsake...prometheus caused global warming;-)
By way of contra-evidence, if following Jesus is a religion, I note 3 books by people who say they did so as a result of originally setting out to prove it was wrong.
* Lee Strobel, The Case the for Christ, 1998
* Albert Henry Ross (pseudonym Frank Morison), Who Moved the Stone, 1930
* Josh McDowell, More than a carpenter, 1977
"In the quest for truth we must train ourselves to view our favourite ideas just as critically as those we oppose"
I like to dance. Much of dance is derived from tribal rituals. I can still enjoy dancing without fear of affecting the weather.
Prayer, meditation... it all boils down to thumb sucking.
indeed one can be moral w/o religion, but most people need help, and what better way to motivate them than thru fear of eternal damnation...words create images in our imaginations;-}
al got it wrong: god_is_the dice of the universe;-) "acts of god" are all random events...and in texas football is a religion, based on a random event generator: the points on the oblate spheroid guarantee random bounding, unlike roundball;-)
and having an imaginary friend means u r never alone, very comforting...
The true situation is that the brain is designed to find patterns and assign agency. "Free will"... behind all decisions large and small lies emotional processing. Few of us could watch a good horror movie and not feel tension. Last figures I've seen have 41% of americans believing in ESP, 37% in haunted houses, 32% in ghosts, etc, etc... The exploitation of irrational feelings is the foundation of the powerful Public Relations campaigns that lead us into flocking to buy iPhones or supporting wars. The irrational is at the core of all Art, Music and Poetry, and without it we would no longer be human.
Placebos are more effective than prescribed antidepressants.
You are misinterpreting what you probably heard somewhere.
http://www.straightdope.com/co...
A review of 177 studies involving more than 24,000 depressed patients found placebos alleviated symptoms in 38 percent, while antidepressants reduced them in 46 percent. Psychotherapy alone reduced symptoms in 47 percent, about the same as antidepressants but usually at higher cost. Best of all was combining antidepressants and psychotherapy, with a 52 percent success rate.
A review of 96 studies published from 1980 to 2005 concluded the placebo effect was likely responsible for 68 percent of the improvement seen in patients taking antidepressants. Another review pegged it at 84 percent. What's more, the placebo effect appears to be growing over time.
Some research says there's no medicinal benefit. A European study of "active placebos" (where the placebo mimicked the drug's side effects) found no significant difference between placebos and antidepressants. The latter were just particularly persuasive fakes.
The fact that the placebo effect is increasing the more they keep prescribing them is most likely due to overprescription of antidepressants to misdiagnosed patients.
When you treat everything with an antidepressant of course it will eventually show the same (or even lesser) effect as placebo - CAUSE YOU'RE NOT TREATING THOSE ACTUALLY DEPRESSED.
Same thing would happen if they started putting people's arms and legs in casts for every single bruise.
It would show that in most cases, immobilization via plaster cast is no better than placebo as a treatment for healing injured arms and legs.
The fact that they are achieving similar results with psychotherapy alone indicates that those are not people with chemical or hormonal issues.
They are probably just "sad" and not clinically depressed at all. OR... looking for a "high".
They go to a psych, fill out a questionnaire and answer "yes" when asked if they are depressed.
Or answer a question. Same thing.
Same method is used to determine if those pills worked - they fill out a questionnaire and answer "yes".
If they used that method for diagnosing cancer, everyone who ever went to a doctor would be diagnosed with cancer.
And there'd be some AMAZING results regarding all the things that completely cure cancer. From foot-rubs to lava lamps.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Well, a drunk man is always happier
It is very depressing especially when you invoke religion.
I think it is better for people to be depressed that deluded.
specifically, "this make a judgement that it is better off not being depressed in this world"
maybe someone can see the whole thing, but not with beta
I wouldn't venture that many here are willing to live in delusion in order to trick their brain into de-stressing. The only correlation here is that reducing stresses on your body and brain helps your overall health. Religion may, in some cases, achieve these goals but are certainly not the only way. I'll take my lifestyle choices on my own terms, thank you.
Brought to you by the Artificial Idea Factory.
Unless your brain happens to be in the body of a woman, because then you're screwed.
Sig
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars
Importance of religion or spirituality, but not frequency of attendance, was associated with thicker cortices in [various cerebral regions], independent of familial risk.
Link
A pub. Learn the python philosophers song.
You might still appear loony, but if you don't find fellow loonies, go to a different pub.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
A transparent attempt to discredit me without any factual value.
The trick with "logic" is used by a number of religions targeting people of higher intelligence. (For example there are quite a few Christian splinter groups that use it.) It works by establishing some axioms that corrupt whatever comes out of the logical process. As any logical conclusion is only as valid as the axioms used, this works well. Often this little fact is cleverly disguised. Logic does not give you truth in any meaningful way, that is the job of the axioms. So while your religion is more sophisticated than the average and targets a different group of people, it is just the same thing in a better disguise.
There really is no need for me to research your particular mental malady.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Heheheh, nice. And exactly true.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
So you're saying that people in the last 20 or so years of their lives who believe that once they die it is all over, and are coming to the realization that the minuscule amount of time they spent on this Earth means nothing, are more stressed than those who may hold the belief that maybe, just maybe there is something else? Shocking. I'll also say that you will see a trend of people who have claimed for a good part of their lives are atheist (in reality they are agnostic) actually find themselves peering over the edge of the abyss as they get older and in some form start to find God.
Where did you get that? That's not what the article said at all. Or are you a self proclaimed expert on all matters religion and brain and just pulled that out of your ass?
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
So it's good for the individual. I suspect that for the society as a whole, it wouldn't be good for everyone to have that marker.
So sometimes people get to be more optimistic about things.. Great.. It's nice when I meet people like that, who pull me into their happy world (and yes, I appreciate it).. My own.. Well, I see the world without the niceties. I'm prone to depression. But there again, I get to use it in work, and in life. Out of the larger group, I'm usually the one who adds in the dose of reality when people need the hard advice, or a plan that has the greatest chance of succeeding. I prep them to get through tough times without sugar coating. I pick up on loads of things that people with a brighter mindset miss.
The disadvantage is that I'm not a happy-go-lucky person most of the time.
That's where the strength of real diversity comes in. A mix of mindsets covers all angles, and has a good chance of working more comfortably in the long haul. The group can play to the strengths of the individuals. The problems start when people start decreeing that their viewpoint is the only valid one in all cases. Unfortunately, religion has a lot of that in it. Not a problem for the individual, but perhaps a huge one for those around.
Straight through the heart of them, righteous up rights....
Is the social interaction enabled by religion:
So where does that leave non-believers?
“Out of luck, I guess,” Koenig joked.
“Actually, I would suspect that people doing the types of things like religious people do -- socializing, doing similarly complex cognitive tasks, would have similar benefits. But it is interesting that religion provides that whole package of things that people can adopt and pursue over time.”
It would be really interesting to make an additional study to compare that against a group of people that are not religious but that have a simmilar level of social interaction.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
If you're thick ( cortically) you may like religion
Or any other religious fanatic. More wars have been fought over religion that anything else.
So, does this study show that Americans generally have better health than Swedes?
Sweden is very non religious, and the US very religious. We're in the same socioeconomic class so we shoud be comparable.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
I write into this moshpit of hate for anyone here who might struggle with depression.
Writing from the moshpit of judgementalism, are we?
I've suffered from anxiety and depression all my life. You don't speak for me, and nothing you said makes sense to me. Believe it or not, we're not one single, like-minded, mono-cultural mass.
Your body makes you depressed to solve a stress problem.
Is that right? And what research supports this ridiculously simplistic viewpoint?
I'm not going to say it's going to work for you, because I can't know that, especially because most of you have already insisted that it can't work, and so it's sure to not work for you, because you will see to it that it won't, so that you can be right, and miserable.
Actually, you just said exactly that. You imply that the only way it's not going to work for me is if I sabotage it for myself, so I can be "right and miserable". What a holier-than-thou person you are. Oh right, you're religious. Well, I guess you have a right to think you know what's good for me. I have a right to disagree - which, from your mountain-top, you call "the right to be miserable".
You have your medicine, I have mine. Leave it at that, if you are able.
To believe no less than six impossible things before breakfast.
religion aside...
Reading the article referenced : "Neuroanatomical Correlates of Religiosity and Spirituality A Study in Adults at High and Low Familial Risk for Depression" I am struck by this in particular :
"Results : Importance of religion or spirituality, but not frequency of attendance, was associated with thicker cortices in the left and right parietal and occipital regions, the mesial frontal lobe of the right hemisphere, and the cuneus and precuneus in the left hemisphere, independent of familial risk. In addition, the effects of importance on cortical thickness were significantly stronger in the high-risk than in the low-risk group, particularly along the mesial wall of the left hemisphere, in the same region where we previously reported a significant thinner cortex associated with a familial risk of developing depressive illness. We note that these findings are correlational and therefore do not prove a causal association between importance and cortical thickness.
Conclusions and Relevance : A thicker cortex associated with a high importance of religion or spirituality may confer resilience to the development of depressive illness in individuals at high familial risk for major depression, possibly by expanding a cortical reserve that counters to some extent the vulnerability that cortical thinning poses for developing familial depressive illness.
This is fascinating stuff ! Much more interesting than the emotive and desperate sounding attempts to proselytize for the eradication of irrational religious belief a particular character type here expresses at every opportunity.
Religious belief has arguably existed in some form or another as far back as humans have. It has a function beyond the negative things that some angry (and often unintentionally ironic) humans often attributed to it. That is an amazing fact. The why and how and interrelational aspects of it are far more logically enticing than the typically boring and nihilistic exhortations some people feel compelled to crap-up forums with.
If I wanted to hear/read THAT kind of junk I'd go to some place where fundamentalists opine, like religious extremist forum, or perhaps a church...
Jesus came to connect man to God. His death on the Roman cross and the raising of him from death to life by God the Father is how he did it. People are convicted of sin, because they don't believe in Jesus Christ, not because they don't follow rules and regulations. In other words, one senses their need to believe in Jesus, when the good news is proclaimed. Acting on that information and accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour is how one gets eternal life. Anyone who accepts Jesus is called a Christian. The word Christian means little Christ. That's why Jesus said to pray to God the Father in his name. He said ask and you will receive. That's why prayer is effective, God answers prayers. People who pray are connected with God and experience him through Jesus. There is a reality that is present when one is connected to God.
Its a reduction in stress, not a lesson in tact.
Hitler meditated daily.
I think you proved his point.
Trouble is there is a fallacy here. If Hitler had won the war there would have been a revisionist canpaign to expunge his sins or to mitigate them somewhat, consider Stalin? And Hitler drew on the support of Christians in Germany, and being Catholic or Lutheran did not decide the issue, either of religion or of morality, and it rarely does.
So maybe the point of the OP is that believing that there is something greater than one self, in whatever form you choose, reduces stress. But prejudging the complexity of the world with proscribed answers also might reduce stress. On the other hand, there are many many paths to the same outcome than merely given by the world's organized religious organizations. There is a spiritual meaning for human beings quite apart from the traditions given in these world religions. Maybe doing some art might have the same effect, for example.
Unitarian-Universalist churches provide all of the above without requiring that members believe in any aspect of any particular service or activity that the individual church engages-in/provides.
I'd imagine that regular science fiction convention attendees also get the benefits described above, assuming it is all because of socialization.
Transcendental Meditation practitioners show all of the above merely by engaging in what is sold as a purely relaxation technique. Even people sleeping under bushes in Uganda, who were taught TM as stress management for PTSD, show remarkable (ludicrously remarkable) reductions in PTSD symptoms within 10 days of learning, despite having virtually no access to standard medical/religious/mental health care.
Perhaps "socialization" isn't the most important factor to be considered, depending on which "spiritual" practice is being used.
Our choice as human beings is a long life or a rational one? Well I choose smart. Btw, does this study include the religious morons who blow their life savings on some crackpot conspiracy nut like Jim Bakker or Oral Roberts, and die young of preventable diseases thanks to poverty? Is there an average age at death comparison? Five - 1 it will favor the rational over the religious
Apparently atheism doesn't make you any more more likely to accept scientific evidence if it contradicts your preconceived biases.
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hey today we have the internet. forget god's eye, all your people on social media will see what you've been doing.
Having been depressed, I'm not nearly so sure.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes