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Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine
U.S. officials today made public satellite imagery which they say proves that Russian forces have been shelling eastern Ukraine in a campaign to assist rebel groups fighting Ukraine’s government.
The U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which released the civilian-taken satellite images Sunday, said they show visual evidence that Russia has been firing shells across the border at Ukrainian military forces. Officials also said the images show that Russia-backed separatists have used heavy artillery, provided by Russia, in attacks on Ukrainian forces from inside Ukraine.
One image dated July 25/26 shows what DNI claims is “ground scarring” on the Russian side of the border from artillery aimed at Ukrainian military units in Ukraine, as well as the resultant ground craters on the Ukrainian side of the border:
Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia.
The side that apparently blew a 300-civilian passenger jet out of the sky because they're too dumb to know what a Boeing looks like is getting direct military support from a major regional power which just happens to have nuclear weapons.
And I thought my hometown of Detroit was fucked.
Wow. What a surprise. Russia is involved in the conflict in Ukraine.
Why can't they be like the UK and Scotland where they all sit down and discuss it over a nice cup of tea? Then if they want their independence they can have it. No big fuss.
A) There have been political articles on Slashdot for as long as I've been a subscriber. Might as well get used to it.
B) Didn't want to read it? Then why did you?
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
Maybe it would help if you could tell us who it was that forced you to read and comment on this item?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
If you don't want to read it, go to the next article.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
So tell us. Just how many chromosomes are you missing?
Hardly surprising. The last time the Russians got this aggressive was their invasion of Afghanistan under Jimmy Carter of Most Unpleasant Memory.
When Americans are stupid enough to elect a wimp, the nasties of the world get aggressive. And in the case of Obama, we're looking at a superwimp.
These two pictures convey the problem perfectly. First Obama, helmet and momma jeans on a paved sidewalk:
http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06_16/obama_bike.jpg
Now Putin on a horse not bothering with helmets, a shirt or pavement:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01456/horse_1456083i.jpg
All we're waiting for is an incident like Carter's encounter with that "killer rabbit" that was immortalized in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFAOCBY8zrI
You could have saved some typing by not opening the article. But then you would not have been able to write this long pointless OT rant.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I'm sure the Western aggressors are shelling Ukraine from inside Russia, as part of their insidious plot to estrange Ukraine from Russia. No really, give it another 5 minutes and the Putin apologists will be claiming this.
You are probably unaware that chemical weapons are defined as WMDs in all the treaties related to WMDs.
And you are likely also unaware that Hussein used chemical weapons against his Kurdish population.
You are most likely also unaware that some chemical weapons were found when the US Army moved into Iraq.
Note that all those things were mentioned in the news at the time (at the time meant the Clinton Presidency in the first two cases, the Bush one for the third case), but presumably you don't (or can't) read the news either.
Which is why, presumably, you're still blathering about non-existant WMDs in Iraq.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
I agree to an extent. It's not really what this site is about.
You are preaching to the choir. Obama is simply a coward and doesn't have the courage or competence to make a decision. If you don't fawn over him. he doesn't know how to handle it.
you could just skip this article yanno.
i for one enjoy the geopol + compsci/tech offered on this wonderous site
Aluminum tubes? Yellowcake? Halliburton needs some cash? All valid reasons, you know. And would this be a bad thing? Putin spending TRILLIONS of Rubles for regime change?
"This submission is pretty much irrelevant here at Slashdot."
Yeah, nobody here cares about a 21st century Sarajevo.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
And frankly does not matter even if it were true.
If Chinese backed neo-nazis took over Mexico city and threw the country into a civil war, I wouldnt be surprised if we gave the loyalists a little discrete help here and there as well.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
I bet you could not tell the difference between a civilian plane and a military plane flying at 30,000 feet over a war zone either.
I bet he can't tell them apart either, but I also bet he wouldn't fire a missile at it. *Firing a missile anyway* is the important thing here, not a failure to identify the aircraft.
Do you realize that - outside the US - all your hilarious "burps" would be good for late night comedy shows?
If the US didn't have veto power inside the UN Security Council both Bush and Obama would have already been deported to The Hague, in front of the International Criminal Court.
In Soviet Russia, you shell artillery. Or is it artillery shells you? I just felt this needs an In Soviet Russia comment though.
The roots of the current crisis was when the Ukraine applied to join NATA and NATA planning to site missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic.
Wreck their economy. It worked once and the way Russia acts it would work again, no doubt. Russia has only a GDP a little better than Italy and less than Germany, France or the UK. They are utterly weak and exactly because they know it they have to act like a bully. Russia is a dwarf trying to convince itself it is a giant by making others think it is.
you must admit that this military conflict is somewhat different from previous ones in that many sides to the conflict resort to media campaigns using interwebs etc that is the scale that I personally have not seen before. If not for any other reason it is interesting to have it on /. and run statistics on he bitching from each side....
Since you seem to have the equipment, now show us some evidence about what happened to the MH17 flight.
Dude, you've got extras, just accept it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The reason we're still "blathering about non-existant [sic] WMDS" is because "WMD" is a shorthand for "nukes". The yellowcake uranium evidence, the aluminum tubes that "were intended as components of centrifuges to enrich uranium", the quote "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud".
All of the WMD arguments for war were in the context of nukes, not chemical weapons.
So yes, you're technically correct - which is the best kind of correct - but you're also missing the point. None of the WMDs that we were warned about were found.
Not to mention if chemical weapons were a casus belli, just about every country in the world would be a legitimate target.
Last post!
Holy crap, this AC got modded up +2 already? I notice on this story that the stupidest comments so far are all ACs. There should be a rule that whenever someone says how some leader here or there is screwing up, then the commenter is required to say how they would do it better. As everyone who has made it there seems to have found out once elected President of the USA (or Prime Minister of somewhere else), the problems are a lot more complicated when you actually have to deal with them and then the fallout (maybe literally in this case) from your actions. This parent AC is a troll and should be modded as such.
"The last time the Russians got this aggressive was their invasion of Afghanistan under Jimmy Carter"
I think you're forgetting that they invaded Georgia when George W. Bush was president.
I think that counts as pretty aggressive.
Yawn... Conservative trolling is so boring.
Mid-east fighting, 2000 years and going strong. Yes, clearly not having peace there is Obama's fault...
I just don't get this bravado from some Americans that think we should be directly involved in every conflict around the globe. Ironically, all these global conflicts are a huge drain on the national treasury. Can't cut the budgets and join a few wars at the same time.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
So what are they going to do about it? Give another speech about how Russia is acting against its own interest?
Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
Any country depending on the US for support is lost and left to fend for themselves.
However, if you DARE mention the government should cut a dime of spending you will be labled a terrorist and the IRS, and DOJ will be used illegally to harrass you and oppress you. This administration is far harsher on peaceful critics of its policies than it is on genocide or mass killings of allies.
What a joke.
Out of all those conflicts you posted I can not think of a single one worth the life of even 1 member of the US military. Lets Europe take care of itself, let Saudia Arabia and the other gulf states take care of Iran and the sunni, shia conflict. The USA has been the worlds police force for too many decades, we need to take care of things here at home. Everytime we try to intervene in another country's conflicts since WWII it has been a disaster except perhaps the 1991 Gulf War, President Obama is keeping us out of conflicts we do not need to fight. You call it weakness. I call it wisdom.
Real veto is nukes and aircraft carrier groups. If your nation doesn't have any, accept your new limited sovereignty.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
* Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Israeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Affects Americans right now? -- no. Is there a clear course of action in this conflict that will be best for America in the future? -- no.
* Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Affects Americans right now? -- no. Is there a clear course of action in this conflict that will be best for America in the future? -- no.
* Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
Affects Americans right now? -- no. Is there a clear course of action in this conflict that will be best for America in the future? -- no.
*ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
Affects Americans right now? -- no. Is there a clear course of action in this conflict that will be best for America in the future? -- no.
Now here's a bullet point that you didn't mention:
* Ubiquitous healthcare for Americans
Affects Americans right now? -- YES! Was it a clear course of action that will be best for America in the future? -- YES!
I do not trust the autocrat in Moscow. I do not trust his military and I have a good reason for that. Yet I find it odd that our support for Kiev is so strong and without any conditions. Last time this happened in Europe - the results was a civil war in Yugoslavia and besides all the piles of corpses in Bosnia an ethnic cleansing of Krajina - something that nobody seems to remember anymore.
*Stuff that matters. This matters. A lot.
So what are they going to do about it? Give another speech about how Russia is acting against its own interest?
Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Israel seems to be taking pretty good care of the problem judging by the kill ration which stands to about 25:1 and the massive destruction in Gaza. Oh and in case you haven't been here for the past 60 or so years Israel has been getting and continues to get substantial help from US. So has been Egypt and Jordan, which has made them quite the allies.
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Actually the combination of sanctions with the recent push for negotiations has made Iran revisit their position on the nuclear weapons and this issues seems very likely to be resolved soon
Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
There have been sanctions which keep expanding and seem to have some effect on slowing down Putin's ambitions. Would you rather prefer that US and Russia exchange nuclear strikes?
ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
Oh, and whose fault is it that ISIS is so rampant in Iraq? It wouldnÃ(TM)t be that some other president started a war under false pretext which ignited sectarian conflict that allowed Al-QaÃ(TM)ida and ISIS to flourish? So what is the solution? Send the whole US army for another 5 to 10 years??
Any country depending on the US for support is lost and left to fend for themselves.
That is false on its face. US has been dishing international support, both financial and military, to prety much everyone that ahs asked for starting from Asia (Taiwan, South Korea), through the Middle East (Egypt, Israel, Pakistan, Jordan, Iraq...) to Eastern Europe (Poland, the Balkans, the Baltic Republics, Georgia...). Oh, I forgot half of South America (war on drugs and such)
In conclusion you sir are a joke, an idiot and a shill.
You are most likely also unaware that some chemical weapons were found when the US Army moved into Iraq.
Citation please?
Were the satellites running Linux or something?
Wants President to do everything in the world, doesn't want to pay for it. Definitely sounds like a shill.
Ha? Actually, no, Russians and Ukrainians have only had one conflict and it was very, very minor. Traditionally, there were always the closest of allies. If Russia's invasion of Georgia was Putin's Czechoslovakia (because Putin has turned Russia into a fascist state), then Ukraine's would be Putin's Austria (going back to the Hitler analogy). Oh, and the fact that satellites were used to expose Russian lies does make this about benefits of technology. So putting it on Slashdot is not outrageous.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
The USA can release images that proved Russia is shelling Ukraine, but hey are not capable to release the proves that the rebels/separatists shot down the airliner, even though they told us like a hundred times that they have irrefutable prove?
And this from the country that is drone-bombing the world ... Seriously, do these people actually listen to themselves?
captcha: inheres
I spent a good 30min try to find the highlighted region on Google Maps. Couldn't find it. Any help?
Since it worked out so well the last time we followed the tough guys' words into two countries at the same time, now we should jump on your advice and invade Gaza, Iran, Russia, and Iraq/Syria.
Maybe we'll think better with our heads blown off.
Yeah, well you fight like a cow!
Obama's foreign policy decisions have basically been exactly what a majority of it's citizens want. It's not pretty by any means but he is fulfilling his promises in this one area of state.
The US Government also had "overwhelming" evidence that Saddam Hussein had yellowcake or was about to get it, and that Iraq was overflowing with WMD's.
We also heard that the US Government was no way tracking everyone, and didn't even have the capability to monitor every email and phone call in the US.
It's nothing but a continuous stream of bullshit form the US government. They are not to be trusted. Period.
yes indeed Iraq used chemical weapons against Kurds and earlier against Iran. There is some evidence that Iraq used smallpox i.e. biological agents against Iran during the war too. Yet the search for WMD after the second Iraq-US war did not yield any evidence and that is what we are talking about. The way the whole operation was started is already a pattern in US approach to military interventions - try to misinform as much as possible, make impossible claims and then say that because requests were not satisfactory fulfilled sends the marines. Outright lies to UN security council however are rare. Besides WMD there were also these claims that Iraq helps Al Qaida for which eventually there was no evidence either - FF to today and we see ISIS that seems to be more radical that al qaida that US tried to remove from Iraq.
Try 6000 years. They were bashing each other over the head way back then as well according to the ancient history book I read.
The wars aren't what's bankrupting the budget, it is the 2/3 of "non-discretionary" expenses that are dong that job quite nicely.
The U.S. is involved world wide because the U.S. has defense agreements and economic interests world wide. The U.S. had their head stuck up their ass before WW II and then WW II happened. It happened because "the world" didn't have the balls to stop German and Japanese aggression when it would have been easy.
Currently, Putin and Muslim radicals and Chinese expansionism will create another fucking world-wide mess, and two of them have nuclear weapons. As soon as Pakistan drops their panties for the radicals, the Muslim jihadis will have them as well. It's going to be wonderful world.
Chemical weapons the USA supplied to Iraq no less. Thanks for injecting some sanity!
So what are they going to do about it? Give another speech about how Russia is acting against its own interest?
Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
Any country depending on the US for support is lost and left to fend for themselves.
However, if you DARE mention the government should cut a dime of spending you will be labled a terrorist and the IRS, and DOJ will be used illegally to harrass you and oppress you. This administration is far harsher on peaceful critics of its policies than it is on genocide or mass killings of allies.
What a joke.
Yeah, so what do you propose we do about it then? Get George W Bush back in so he can rage total war against Russia? Is that what you're suggesting?
There's a reason why ACs are auto-moderated to level 0 upon posting their comments, their comments are hardly worthwhile.
Putin is an idiot. He started playing games with Ukraine and never saw the long game.
Doubtful this evidence is fabricated. The US isn't going to fabricate evidence that can be corroborated by others independently. Its not like any of those images are too small for Google Earth. The EU, China, Japanese, and all even some commercial interests have satellites that can see the same thing. Now the US has told them where to look, others can see for themselves. Nobody (except maybe Pravda) has called BS on this.
But the Russians may be right about a US lead smear campaign..... This is all about sanctions by the EU, which is really all about who sells the EU Natural Gas. The US has some serious gas reserves that is itching to sell for good money. Hard to do if EU is purchasing from Gazprom.
But this is all on Putin. If he didn't provide the smear material, the US couldn't use it.
Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Yet, Israel killed over 1k people already, mostly civilians and many of them children, while Hamas has killed ~60 IDF soldiers (most of them on Palestinian land, as in Gaza Strip --- yes, an invasion is taking place there), and 2 or 3 civilians. Yes, stop the killers, by all means! Except the killers are not the ones you are pointing at. One more thing, Israel did start this round, as a collective punishment for 3 killed Israeli. It's no secret this was an isolated event and none of the larger groups in the area were involved in it. But who cares, right? They are all Palestinians so they are guilty by default.
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
I am totally opposed to any country having nuclear weapons, especially the ones ruled by crazy people. Unfortunately US under Bush was falling under this category. Obama is far saner, and I do feel a bit safer living on this planet now.
Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
Again, I'm totally opposed to it, but let's not pretend US never did it.
ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
This is what happens when you f*** a country beyond recognition. Extremist elements will take over power. Thank you, US, for making the world a better place, once more.
Yeah, I mean c'mon. Also, Whats up with all these stories on slashdot about computers and computing devices?
Solid state microprocessors have been around since the 1960's. All these computing devices are just modifications of that basic technology.
Oh, wait, those stories are interesting. Hey, some people may be interested in seeing how satellite technology has changed too. The satellites we have imaging the planet today are not that "same old shit" from the 60's and 70's. Sensors and their sensing capabilities have changed immensely over the span of 40 years.
This story is interesting in detailing how that monitoring technology can identify the sites launching the mortars and the sites being hit.
Haven't you seen the video with the Russian military intelligence specialist Igor Strelkov laughing as the plane hits the ground and explodes? On a side note, Igor sure gives credence to the old joke about military intelligence being an oxymoron. Putin will have him killed for all the trouble he has caused, because there is no way that idiot was acting in anyone's best interests when he murdered those civilians.
At least by the headline it seems so. I took a look this morning at two of them and you can clearly see some areas in the "pre" that had "bomb craters" just as the purported second "post" image. Also notice differences in resolution.
These images - just like anything the Russians or Ukranians give - should not be taken at face value.
It's one thing to ship the murder weapon to the killers and another to operate it yourself. The donor of the weapon isn't guilty of its use (even if he's pretty much aware of what the recipient will be doing with it). Now... shelling across a border that wasn't moved Crimea-style into Russia just yet... That's an act of aggression however you look at it.
Oh, sorry.
Nobody believes you except for the fools and the gullible. US == liars. Obama == Hitler.
Hitler leads on countries invaded 24 to 4,
Hitler was also a far better public speaker; convinced millions of people that blonde haired people were superior - when he had brown hair.
Israel is targeing rocket launchers, Gaza is targeting civilians while hiding their rockets behind civilians.
You got a problems with killings, blame Gaza. A large number of those killed in Gaza are from bad launches of rockets, but I see you blame that on Israel. I guess Israel is supposed to kill their own citizens so Gaza doesn't have to risk killing themselves launching rockets.
Anti-semite troll is obvious.
Um... no. You may have chosen to interpret wmd = nuke, but not everyone else does or did. You might be making the logical fallacy of changing your argument to be just a little more specific when you were proven wrong, but that doesn't make your original argument any less wrong.
Be a pedant all you want, it doesn't make a difference to the guy in Iraq if he gets hit with a nuke or mustard gas.
We are all disgusted by what everyone does yet we still continue to sell them weapons in which they can do disgusting things. Be it software or hardware, money still talks.
(*As something to make me laugh, my first anti-bot word for anonymuous coward was 'execute')
Thanks Putin, you fucking asshat.
I used to like you. You used to be cool. But you just had to be a dick and try do a Hitler 2.0.
Funny that they illustrate this report with the actual shelling of the city of Gorlovka by the Ukrainian army. Yeah, actual civilians being bombed by their US sponsored government to the complete indifference of the western media. I guess those reporters can't be bothered to point that out.
Yeah right, the infamous "mushroom cloud" comment was all about chemical weapons. Also I'm old enough to recall the attack on the Kurds, it happened in the 80's long before Clinton was elected. The Bush administration lied about nukes and lied about Saddam's connection to 911 because they wanted to "fix" the ME once and for all.
Sure most people wanted Saddam gone but most people could also see the end was not worth the means. The US should have backed down when it did not gain the support of the UN but they did the exact opposite. The US should have kept Iraq's public service intact but they disbanded them on the third day and the entire nation went on a looting rampage from which they still haven't recovered.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
"Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word." -- I'm pretty sure the US is saying a word, and it is desire for a cease fire. Also, Hamas is dumb, but death count in the recent spate of attacks? Israelis: 1 died to a rocket, Palestinians: 1000 died in shelling. Looks like Israel is doing comparatively alright here. Why do you need the US doing more here? What is it you want them to do?
"Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word." -- Clearly you are unaware of the current state of diplomacy on this issue. Last November an interim agreement was made, observers are checking to verify Iranian compliance in agreement for a lessening of economic sanctions. We'll see if a continuing agreement can be reached by next November. What would you have done differently? The fact that you claim that the US has not said a word makes me inclined to think you are not aware of reality enough to make a sensible suggestion, but you could surprise me.
"Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech." -- The US can invade Iraq and Afghanistan and run military operations in Pakistan and get bashed mildly with... a speech. Iraq was a disaster perpetrated upon a bed of lies and incompetency. Would you consider it money well spent? Seriously? What is your proposed action on Russia and Crimea? You have complained about actions taken, without expressing what it is you actually want... and that's just not helpful at all. It sounds like you want more dick waving and war and are under the impression that it will help, but I could just be stereotyping you...
"ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word." -- What do you want? Unending US military presence in Iraq? Who do you even want to be in charge of Iraq and why? What implications would your desires have?
Basically, it sounds like you want the US to prop up Israel, stop Iran by any means necessary, remove Russia from Crimea, and crush ISIS and prop up Iraq indefinitely. You want to do all of this heavy work and military mobilization (hint: that costs a ton of money [oh, and lives, especially if you count foreigners and care about that kinda thing]), yet simultaneously you complain about the government not cutting a dime of spending.
Your brain is broken.
> "WMD" is a shorthand for "nukes"
Just plain wrong. Remember Colin Powell's presentation at the UN? It was all about mobile facilities for brewing biological WMDs. He was wrong, but it's clear that "WMDs" doesn't simply mean "nukes", even in the Iraq context.
Less believable? See:
http://www.thestar.com.my/News...
http://www.malaysia-chronicle....
http://www.straitstimes.com/ne...
for a demonstration of Goebbels' and Stalin's idea that if a big lie is repeated often enough it becomes the truth.
In fact, Russia invented satellite!
No, wait, they did.
> The yellowcake uranium evidence
More than 550 tons were shipped out in a single event:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/
Really? You're going to claim that didn't happen? Sigh, liberals and their conspiracies.
> None of the WMDs that we were warned about were found.
Bullshit. My nephew Michael Adams, died from exposure to Sarin in Iraq. There were most certainly WMDs, and you insult the families of all of the American soldiers killed there by them.
ftfy
So what are they going to do about it? Give another speech about how Russia is acting against its own interest?
Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
Any country depending on the US for support is lost and left to fend for themselves.
However, if you DARE mention the government should cut a dime of spending you will be labled a terrorist and the IRS, and DOJ will be used illegally to harrass you and oppress you. This administration is far harsher on peaceful critics of its policies than it is on genocide or mass killings of allies.
What a joke.
Multiple scathing criticisms but not a single suggestion of a specific action you'd do different.
Are you a republican congressman or senator?
I stole this Sig
The summary says "Russian forces" which is generally assumed to mean official troops, but I think it's far more likely to be Russian rebels firing on Ukraine from Russia.
Putin has no need to involve official Russian troops when there are more than enough "volunteers" willing to carry out the battle. Russia gives them a few big guns and they keep them safe on the Russian side of the border so the Ukrainians can't fight back. The bonus is that by keeping the Ukrainians away from the border they can keep it open and continue the flow of troops and arms from Russia.
I stole this Sig
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Iran dilutes nuclear material
July 21, 2014
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/iran-dilutes-nuclear-material/story-fn3dxix6-1226995916083
IRAN has turned all of its enriched uranium closest to the level needed to make nuclear arms into more harmless forms, the United Nations' nuclear agency says.
THE move was expected. Tehran had committed to convert or dilute its 20-per cent enriched stockpile under an agreement with six powers last November that froze its atomic programs pending negotiations on a comprehensive deal. Those talks were extended on Saturday to November 24.
Still, the development was noteworthy in reflecting Iran's desire not to derail the diplomatic process with the six countries - the United States, Russia, China, Britain, France and Germany.
If you really cared about Iran and not about piling up perceived failure at Obama's feet, you sure as shit would have seen this headline from last week.
It wasn't a secret. The AP, AFP, Reuters, and pretty much everyone was talking about it.
/Naturally Fox News did their best to report only on the extension of talks.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Not to mention if chemical weapons were a casus belli, just about every country in the world would be a legitimate target.
Exactly. Like marijuana and copyright infringement for foreign policy.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
When you start dropping shells on their side of the border.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/russia-warns-over-deadly-ukraine-shelling-201471391428887801.html
At least Russia shoots on military units, while on the other side, the army of Ukraine has been shelling cities full of civilians. And I cannot wait to learn who really shot down MH 17.
Agreed.
WTF. Obama should nuke Russia.
(kidding)
The SU-25 jets, loaded with missiles, can only reach about half the altitude that flight 17 was flying at. Because russia lies, it falls apart at even the slightest investigation and fact checking. By spreading Russian lies, you're either a useful idiot, or a paid provocateur.
Look on Australia, ye Mighty, and despair!
OK. You've got a beef with Obama and the current Administration. I have some issues too. That said, pretend that, for some reason you became President, what YOU would do in each of the situations that you mention. We'll wait...
You do have memory troubles...
Or you like to start the clock where it suits your narrative.
Either way, reading the comments, there are a lot of really miss-informed people or the trolls are out in full force banging the drums of war.
This is about the US keeping the US dollar as the worlds default currency.
The BRICS country's (lead by Russia) are setting up there own banking system that neatly cuts the US dollar out.
Speaking as a Ukrainian, you're completely mistaken. Russia has been agressive towards Ukraine for centuries. Besides many millitary invasions, an occupation that lasted generations, there was also the genocide planned in Moscow that in the 1930's killed 11 million Ukrainians. Russia has historically been hungriest for Ukrainian blood above all else, and it doesn't look like things will change any time soon.
Well, I would send in the Unicorn Ponies to subdue the Russians with their Mind Control Rays. Then it would be like My Little Pony over there.
If you think the war Russia is waging on Ukraine won't eventually affect the USA you are dangerously mistaken. This the zombie form of the USSR coming back to life and unless contained, will be just as dangerous, if not worse. They are already looking hungrily towards Alaska. Their propaganda machine is already working hard trying to convince their own people and the rest of the world that it should be given back, or taken by force. (Keep in mind, recent invasions of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and Chechnya all started with stupid propaganda exactly like this.)
It's absolutely in USA's interest to stop Russia WAY before it gets close enough to do anything serious to USA. Here's some Russian propaganda aimed directly at the USA, enjoy looking up the nastier stuff on your own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You are probably unaware that chemical weapons are defined as WMDs in all the treaties related to WMDs.
And you are likely also unaware that Hussein used chemical weapons against his Kurdish population.
You are most likely also unaware that some chemical weapons were found when the US Army moved into Iraq.
Note that all those things were mentioned in the news at the time (at the time meant the Clinton Presidency in the first two cases, the Bush one for the third case), but presumably you don't (or can't) read the news either.
Which is why, presumably, you're still blathering about non-existant WMDs in Iraq.
You are probably aware that the shelf life of said weapons from the ira- iraq war are too short for your point to be relevant. It was in the news, and we all had a laugh. It was also well publicized that gasses were used in the Kurdish region, and that the U.S. provided those gases and target training to both sides of the war One side got nerve gas, the other side got mustard gas. Both were found. U.S. wanted to keep business rolling in Iran and blamed it entirely on Iraq.
Note, these these things were all mentioned in the news and if took the american flag pendants out of your eyes and ears, you would stop blathering at all...
Unless I misunderstood, and you meant to say 'were found when the US Army moved them into iraq", but as I recall, those guys came under friendly fire before the evidence was planted.... after that screwed up , all bets were off, credibility would falter....
Oh I'm sure Russia will affect America. But I what I asked was this:
"Is there a clear course of action in this conflict that will be best for America in the future?"
No, there isn't a clear course of action. It's not obvious which actions would make the situation better and which actions would make the situation worse.
This aggression will not stand, man.
Joe Biden is a square shooter. Joe Biden for 2016
You're jumping from Russia trying to annex Ukraine to Russia trying to invade Alaska. They're more likely to send the tanks rolling into Germany first, and they'll probably annex China long before then.
Russia vs Ukraine is like most of the wars the US has gotten into over the last 20 years - find some little country and push it around since it can't really do anything to hurt you back. Russia doesn't have the navy to threaten the US in a serious way in a conventional war, and the reverse is definitely not the case. There is little reason for Russia to get into a shooting war with the US, and certainly no reason for the US to get into a shooting war with Russia either.
I think the Europeans are making the bigger mistake here, but this is one big case of short-term thinking. Nobody wants to suffer the short-term loss to deal with Russia, and everybody is likely to take advantage of their neighbors if they try to do something about it. If the US cuts off all loans to Russia, the London banks will just step in to make a fortune in their place, etc.
Stop spying on US citizens. Stop using Federal agencies to prosecute citizens with opposing political views. There, you can stop waiting.
Try 6000 years. They were bashing each other over the head way back then as well according to the ancient history book I read.
The wars aren't what's bankrupting the budget, it is the 2/3 of "non-discretionary" expenses that are dong that job quite nicely.
The U.S. is involved world wide because the U.S. has defense agreements and economic interests world wide. The U.S. had their head stuck up their ass before WW II and then WW II happened. It happened because "the world" didn't have the balls to stop German and Japanese aggression when it would have been easy.
Currently, Putin and Muslim radicals and Chinese expansionism will create another fucking world-wide mess, and two of them have nuclear weapons. As soon as Pakistan drops their panties for the radicals, the Muslim jihadis will have them as well. It's going to be wonderful world.
You really don't know your history if you think that WWII happened because "the world didn't have the balls to stop German and Japanese aggression when it would have been easy". WWI was still fresh in the minds of the people, the great depression was in full swing, Germany was not aggressive, Japan was still (for the most part) keeping to its self. The USA was busily selling supplies to all sides of the war (to start with) before it became involved, they were shipping trucks and ammunition to the Russians and encouraging them to push for Berlin to help minimise it's own casualties and were receiving basically all of the technical advances that the British had (in exchange for allowing the sale of supplies to them). The USA then got the shock of its life when it actually joined the battle in Africa (green troops and bad leadership) and were losing men by the truck load in the pacific theatre (rushing heavily fortified positions with troops is going to be a blood bath no matter how good your troops are).
The USA (or UN, one of the two) has put sanctions and asset freezes on quite a few of the top Russian officials. If they were to actually send troops to the Ukraine, it would end up getting Russia officially involved, starting the war that everyone didn't want last century...
Israel and the middle east is a clusterf*ck. Sending troops to any country other then Israel is going to really upset the Israelis and other middle eastern countries and sending troops to "backup" the Israelis will rile up everyone there other then Israel (lose-lose situation at best).
The ISIS situation is actually the USA's fault and they really ought to go do something about though. The USA removed the stabilizing force in Iraq (despite Saddam Hussein's faults, he did keep the peace in Iraq) and then left a weakened government when they withdrew their troops.
I think the point wasn't doing things differently, it was that nothing was being done. Well, nothing besides the easily ignored, symbolic economic sanctions and showing up 30 minutes late for every speech.
I love to read, and participate in, the political discussions here on Slashdot. There are far more intelligent comments, on all sides of the issues, than I see on the news/opinion sites. With contributions from people all around the world who have personal knowledge of the issue.
So, for my viewpoint, keep the articles coming. Those who don't like them can skip to the more 'sciencey' articles.
--I'm New Around Here
--Posting anonymously to preserve mod I have made on this page.
I think the point wasn't doing things differently, it was that nothing was being done. Well, nothing besides the easily ignored, symbolic economic sanctions and showing up 30 minutes late for every speech.
Not doing nothing is doing things differently.
I stole this Sig
Well you see, the scheduling's all wrong. We have to wait another 10 to 15 years before we can start another major offensive to prop up our MIC. Until then we have to depend on our proxies to use up the ordinance we sell them.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Convincing college kids that republicans are racists makes that a push.
USA is in hysterics over Russia for dropping the dollar as a currency. I'd be scared shitless too because printing dollars is what keeps USA able to support its imperialistic wars of conquest. Just on Friday Switzerland and CHina made another dollar dropping deal. USA must be shitting ts pants now. No wonder all the Russian bashing has intensified. I have been your so called news web site for a while now. When the USA government was bashing China, /. wasnt far behind, it made sure to featured China bashing article daily. Now it's Russia turn.
Well Im done now. I am deleting my bookmark and I will NEVER visit this web site ever again. I want news, not propaganda.
But before I leave here is a list of all the lies USA has used over the last decade to justify its wars of aggression.
I have complied of the known lies USA has said over the last decade.
insolent lies USA has used in the last decade to start up wars:
1990 babies taken out of incubators and left to die on cold hospital floor
1990-1999 Saddam working on nuclear weapons
2001 Osama engineered and did 9-11
2001-2003 Saddam has ties with Ali Queda
2001-2003 Saddam has weapons of mass distraction (Colin Powell, Bush jr, Cheney, Condy Rice, etc)
2002-2203 Saddam working on weapons of mass distraction
2002-2003 Saddam working on acquiring nuclear weapons
2001 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2001 Iran has ties with Ali Queda
2002 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2003 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2004 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2005 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2006 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2007 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2008 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2009 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2010 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2011 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2012 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2013 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2013 Assad gassed his own people (part 1)
2013 Assad gassed his own people (part 2)
2014 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2014 Assad gassed his own people (part 3)
Let's leave for now the lies USA used to start the Vietnam war, the Korean war, WWII, war againts SPain and so on.
I think I'm dealing with rational people and not paid shills but obviously I was wrong.
Forgive me, but by now any rational person will stop believing ANYTHING the USA's Corporate Owned Media says about ANYTHING. Obviously none of you is rational;
But last parting words: no matter what you do, Russia WILL keep on developing while USA will keep on fading. Soon USA time will be over while China and Russia WILL be the next super powers in the world. No matter how many lies the USA can say NO matter what USA does it WILL fail. USA cannot stop Russia from advancing.
Goodbye shills. You are sad exuses for beings Youy are not even human. If you were so smart as you claim to be you'd use your brains and you can iueasily see the so called news are just propaganda.
Good luck USA. You will need it.
Russia had an opportunity to become a democracy. They decided to follow Putin instead. The truth is: Putin is a dictator. He illegally invaded Georgia in 2002, and still has 20% of that countries territory. Earlier this year he invaded Crimea, and is claiming it as his own. Just like Hitler, he is claiming language speakers need his help, and is cheerful to invade other countries and take them over 'in the name of protection'. So now you have Putin ordering thousands of Russian soldiers 'on exercises' near the Ukrainian border, Russian heavy weapons crossing into Ukraine, Russian Artillery firing at Ukrainian forces across the border, Russian jets firing at Ukrainian jets over Ukraine, and Russian Rockets in Pro-Russia Rebels firing at Malaysian Passenger Jets flying over Ukraine, followed by Putin putting the blame squarely on Ukraine. The leaders of the Pro-Russian rebels are all members of the Russian FSB (the successor to the the KGB).
And Russia provided a video of the Buk launch (in IR) from Ukrainian territory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Given that Ukraine routinely shoots into Russian territory (even killing several people on the Russian side), it's little wonder that Russia shoots back.
A decade ago I would have believed this as gospel, now I'm not sure. It's difficult to believe the US voice any more.
The Ukranians didn't do this. It should be obvious, because the seperatists they're fighting _don't have airplanes_,
* Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Affects Americans right now? -- no. Is there a clear course of action in this conflict that will be best for America in the future? -- no.
You are obviously only considering immediate consequences as if long term consequences are irrelevant. Why should we ignore long-term consequences?
It is pretty clear that a nuclear armed Iran would trigger a nuclear arms race in The Middle East. Saudi Arabia, Turkey and possibly Egypt would be next in line to pursue nuclear weapons. And if you consider it without risk to have nuclear weapons spread over The Middle East I am sure that will change when the first rogue nuke goes of in New York.
Like any other site, this site is about that what the editors choose. Not the people consuming the information. It is the case for any type of media... why would you believe it is any different with this one?
You are always free to write your thoughts to the editors or to the editor who accepted the submission. Ranting about it is probably the least helpful thing one can do.
Yet here you are, writing whatever you want on slsh dot. So when do you expect IRS or DOJ to knock on your door?
Interesting? My god, this guy sounds like a russian clone of the Drudge Report.
Israel can be known to possess nukes and have threatened to use them repeatedly if the west doesn't supply them with enough conventional arms and world geopolitical clout and no one pays attention... Hamas launches a bunch of firecrackers at one of -the most- technologically advanced countries in the world (that is, incidentally.. occupying, brutalizing, and imprisoning an ENTIRE FUCKING POPULATION OF PEOPLE) and ACs like you get your panties in a fucking bunch like it's the end of the world. Iran makes no nuclear weapons, but because they refuse to give up the capability to understand the science and produce material that -might- -maybe- be able to be used in a nuclear device and they must have WMDS! INVADE INVADE! Russia and ISIS should be dealt with huh? But.. you bitch that the government isn't cutting spending? What level of idiotic does it take to honestly think you have a valid point?
And an IFF on mode 3. And flying much higher than the military plane.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Perhaps, but it makes a world of difference to everyone else on this planet.
Maybe Healthcare wasn't mentioned because it is a topic unrelated to relations between nations. The other topics are about whether nations are getting along (or are harming each other through military actions). American healthcare is internal to one nation, and so is off-topic.
Also, the idea that this is "a clear course of action" is hardly clear-cut. After the next congressional term, many Republicans banded together to fight the new healthcare system. A bunch of Americans, including those who generally support Republicans, disagreed with the actions the Republicans were taking. However, that wasn't because they disagreed with the Republicans being concerned about healthcare. They just didn't like the method that was being used, which was to threaten an ability to come to a consensus regarding a budget. If somehow you translate that as Obamacare being a "a clear course of action that will be best for America in the future", you're expertly mis-portraying things. Even if this healthcare implementation ends up being best for America, this road certainly hasn't been clear.
How the heck did any of this political stuff make its way to my Slashdot reading session, anyway?
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Iran dilutes nuclear material
July 21, 2014
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/iran-dilutes-nuclear-material/story-fn3dxix6-1226995916083
IRAN has turned all of its enriched uranium closest to the level needed to make nuclear arms into more harmless forms, the United Nations' nuclear agency says.
THE move was expected. Tehran had committed to convert or dilute its 20-per cent enriched stockpile under an agreement with six powers last November that froze its atomic programs pending negotiations on a comprehensive deal. Those talks were extended on Saturday to November 24.
Still, the development was noteworthy in reflecting Iran's desire not to derail the diplomatic process with the six countries - the United States, Russia, China, Britain, France and Germany.
If you really cared about Iran and not about piling up perceived failure at Obama's feet, you sure as shit would have seen this headline from last week.
It wasn't a secret. The AP, AFP, Reuters, and pretty much everyone was talking about it.
/Naturally Fox News did their best to report only on the extension of talks.
Shouldn't forget North Korea either, who we know has nuclear weapons and has actively threatened to use them against US targets.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Your point of view is exactly that of many Americans when Hitler was taking over Europe and Japan taking over Asia.
Then Pearl Harbour happened and you all got killed that *gasp* something from the outside world actually effected you! Similarly it was often joked about in the 90s about how Americans had no idea about the world outside their door and couldn't point to pretty much any country other than their own on a map, and even that might be a push because you had also reverted to a selfish isolationist attitude, and then 9/11 happened.
If you haven't learnt that America doesn't exist in isolation from the world yet then god help you, because you're truly fucked and only some time away from the next thousands of dead Americans wake up call.
You revert to your insular selfish state, get a wake up call, and then go fucking bat shit and make things worse, then go all insular again. When will you grow up and realise that there are some things you have to get involved in in the outside world, but you have to play it carefully and sensibly?
If you weren't aware, Russia recently just reopened it's largest listening post in the world right on your doorstep, in Cuba, and he's long been funding oppression in countries like Venezuela whilst arming their military and strengthening their anti-US zeal. If you think Putin's new found aggression and soviet era zeal doesn't and wont effect you then you haven't been paying attention and you wont realise it until it's far too late.
Being reactive, and then when you react, being overreactive has long been America's problem. You need to start being proactive and stop being overreactive.
The fact that this post was modded as "flamebait" tells a lot about american stupidity and mass-media brainwashing.
The GP simply said the crude and verifiable truth, especially about the american war crimes in Iraq, but since he appeared to be "pro-Russia" he was modded down.
Decades of trashy TV, the katrashians and all the other reality shows, blatantly biased newspapers, most of them owned by jewish billionaiers, all this mass-media brainwashing prevent people from giving unbiased judgement. It's just like many americans have hamburgers and fries instead of a brain, that's why the obesity rate is so high and the IQ so low.
WMDs in Iraq. You have officially won the top shill of the day award.
Does anyone believe the propaganda that comes out of the US State Department any more?
Witness 1: "there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it"
Witness 2: "Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one."
Witness 3 - Sergey Godovanets, Commander of the Militia of the city of Snezhnoye: "They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them"..."they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away"
Some other witness: "the Ukrainian air force regularly used civilian aircraft flying over Novorossiya as human shields to protect its military aircraft"
So, just to be clear, from the Russian point of view... a Ukrainian Air Force jet was using as a shield flying beside underneath in front of behind a civilian aircraft. Everyone saw it [at 33,000 feet? Amazing!]. Ukrainian Air Force have been doing this for months [in fact pilots and passengers are so used to this they don't even report such events. Who would?]. Then the Ukrainian Air Force jet shot the civilian aircraft [probably just after mistaking it for Putins personal aircraft, after flying the entire length of Ukraine, hidden by Malaysia Air camouflage].
Have I miss-understood something?
Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
Didn't the boston bomber get accused of/prosecuted for something to do with a "weapon of mass destruction"?
WMD seems a pretty flexible term in the US.
This is a good thing, the US is not supposed to be the policeman of the world, especially since the past decades have often proved stuff goes badly even when the US tries to intervene, and sometimes exactly because of that
Your President seems to have his priorities straight, which is govern the US, not the whole planet
The ISIS situation is actually the USA's fault and they really ought to go do something about though. The USA removed the stabilizing force in Iraq (despite Saddam Hussein's faults, he did keep the peace in Iraq) and then left a weakened government when they withdrew their troops.
Nobody likes nation building. Going in an bombing and then pulling out is "easy." You don't have to deal with all the indigenous populations that hate each other, and so on. Building a stable nation is messy - if there are two tribes of indians that hate each other you have to either get rid of one, or change their culture so that they don't hate each other any longer. If the nation speaks 3 languages, you probably need to get them on one language, and that means picking which one wins.
All of that stuff is morally questionable, and nobody wants to do it. So, we basically leave fragmented nations which unsurprisingly devolve into civil wars until one side or another kills everybody else off and ends up with a single language/culture/etc which is stable, or they manage to draw up internal borders and turn into multiple countries.
If you're not willing to do nation building then you really need to think twice about going in to begin with. You can't win hearts and minds if the "citizens" you're trying to liberate all hate each other almost as much as they hate you.
"STOP! Or I'll say 'stop' again!"
Wow, someones been chugging the government cool-aid. First off yes Iraq had chemical weapons, and the US government directly helped them manufacturer them (it was quite a controversy back when the US and Iraq were friendly). However the chemical weapons found the last time we invaded Iraq were in storage facilities with every indication that they were in the process of being decommissioned, per the requirements set after the first "war".
Pretty sad how so few even care enough to investigate any of these claims.
Getting rid of Putin is in the best long term interests of the US, NATO and the EU. Turning the tables in this conflict could destabilize his domestic power, making new western freindly leadership more likely. The EU is spineless (I live in Germany) and will not act unless it absolutely must.
My crazy solution. If this becomes a shooting war between Ukraine and Russia, the US should "loan" the Ukrainians a squadron of warships, put Ukrainian flags on them and use the Russian Black Sea Fleet for target practice. Bring all Russian sea faring commerce in the region to a halt and negotiate the complete withdrawal of Russia (including the "pro Russian" variety) from Ukraine (including Crimea). It would work best if the EU would back this play politically. Under NATO command, a British task force could sail into the Baltic and threaten to do the same to the Russian Fleet there unless Putin acquiesces. Tourism in St. Petersburg might suffer for a bit, but Russia will be a better place in the long run (and the Russian people much better off) without Putin.
Threat to US - Zero. Threat to UK - Zero. Threat to Civilians in two theatres - significant but not imminent (note: I vacation on the Baltic). EU countries will have to pay higher gas prices until it’s all over.
Russia is acting a bully; I say we (NATO) give the weak kid a big stick, watch his back and tell him to whack away until the bully learns his lesson. Russian shipping is an easy target and will hurt them significantly. Hopefully leading to Putin’s political ruin. Surely someone has a better and less violent solution: please share it here.
Yes the USA is screwed up. Russia is even worse. China is a whole new level of screwd upp. Good luck to us all if Dumb (dictator) and Dumber (The One True Party) rule the world.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/d...
It could still be a missile; witnesses weren't specific. And that it was the only instance of it diverted to that northerly flight plan is just a tad suspicious.
My Photoshop skills are easily up to whatever images either sides' propaganda arm produces. Give me eyewitnesses.
BTW, yes I can spot a Boeing at FL33, with a $10 pair of binocs I could tell a 737 from a 767.
What is this so called news doing in a supposedly tech oriented journal? But its here so:
Major news story released as email via Social Networks - Really
Major news released at 8:45 AM Sunday Morning - EDT - 545 AM on the West Coast - Really.
No news Conference with experts explaining the photos - Really. Photos authenticated by ??????? Really.
What's next - Yellow Cake
Really.
Even the lowliest homeless American junkie is smart enough not to use krokodil. Russians are crazy stupid, drunken and dangerous.
You really don't know your history if you think that WWII happened because "the world didn't have the balls to stop German and Japanese aggression when it would have been easy". WWI was still fresh in the minds of the people, the great depression was in full swing, Germany was not aggressive, Japan was still (for the most part) keeping to its self.
The obvious counter is that Germany was aggressive (both with a vast military buildup and multiple invasions and forced annexations before the Second World War officially began) and Japan was not keeping to itself (such as their invasions of Korea and China and their well-telegraphed war with the US and the UK).
And a military push by France in 1936 to reverse the remilitarization of the Rhine, would have been pretty easy. But having said that, it would be easy to underestimate Nazi Germany in 1936. They had over the course of a few years rebuilt a world-class military from the stunted post-Versailles remnants. I believe the Second World War would have been easy to prevent in 1936 or 1937, but I also believe that it wasn't that clear what course to take.
Still when one looks at the bizarre things that France did, such as building a vast and expensive defensive network of fortresses (the Maginot line), but not actually defending against the invasion path taken in the previous war (and which Nazi Germany used again), it's painfully clear that they weren't making good decisions even given the uncertainty of the times.
* Ubiquitous healthcare for Americans
Affects Americans right now? -- YES! Was it a clear course of action that will be best for America in the future? -- YES!
This wasn't a clear course of action by any means. It was and still is hotly debated. Best for America in the future? Unlikely, since its implementation has been an abysmal failure.
Anyone who is sincerely interested in understanding the current Ukraine situation, PLEASE READ THIS (published back in March):
http://www.counterpunch.org/20...
Also, please understand that the disputed Eastern part of Ukraine was part of Russia for most of its history. Indeed, in the 10th century, Kiev (the present-day capital of Ukraine) was the first capital of Rus, the forerunner of Russia.
in contrast, note that only a few centuries ago present-day Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. (See the top map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...). The Poles have historically been just as aggressive and territory-hungry as the Russians; possibly more so, as the Russians had many other directions in which to expand (notably the East). It's a serious mistake to think of Poles and Lithuanians as victims and underdogs just because that was their fate in the 20th century. The movie "Taras Bulba" (starring Tony Curtis and Yul Brynner) gives a somewhat Hollywoodized but substantially accurate impression of a time when the Polish nobility ruled and swaggered across the region, imposing their rule on Slavs and Cossacks. The movie was based on a largely factual story of the same name by Gogol.
I am amazed by the extent to which grossly deceptive and misleading accounts of the events in Ukraine have been accepted throughout the West. No one in this story has behaved in a saintly way, but the Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine who wish their areas to be taken back into Russia are surely within their rights. ("When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...") For decades, Americans supported the right of Northern Irish republicans to become part of the Republic of Ireland; and in a couple of months, citizens of Scotland will be voting on the question of independence. Under Russian law, anyone born in the USSR who speaks Russian has the right to Russian citizenship. And surely if a region is predominantly inhabited by Russian citizens, they have the right to become part of Russia (again)? Why should Russians be condemned to citizenship of a failed state run by violent neo-Nazis just because of an administrative decision taken in Moscow (without their consent) back in the days of the USSR?
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Has anyone else noticed that the avalanche of RT posters seems to have subsided? For a couple of months any mention of Crimea or the Ukraine was mobbed by dozens of scripted posts about "fascists in Kiev" and so on. Very much in the style of the 1980's information warfare efforts from the Soviets. But I'm getting the sense someone in Moscow has turned down the tap, and told the guys in the RT.com boiler rooms to hold off. Maybe Putin is giving up on this one?
Maybe it would help if you could tell us who it was that forced you to read and comment on this item?
I'm not sure. It might have been the Russians. It might have been the Ukrainians, possibly at the behest of the United States.
I have to agree. As an example, when Hitler first invaded the Ukraine the people were so happy they cheered the Nazis for throwing out the Soviets. Of course subsequent events showed that optimism to be seriously misplaced but it demonstrates how much they hated the Soviets. (Although I used the word Soviets in this context for all intents and purposes they were the Russians)
Nothing is exactly what we in the US ~should~ be doing. Fuck the global cop bullshit, let others make and learn from their own mistakes.
You're jumping from Russia trying to annex Ukraine to Russia trying to invade Alaska. They're more likely to send the tanks rolling into Germany first, and they'll probably annex China long before then.
Wow. Just wow. That was the most stupid statement ever on slashdot. And that's saying something.
Russia annex China? I'm surprised you actually can remember to breathe.
I don't know any Iraqi soldiers, but all the American soldiers I know would rather die knowing it was due to mustard gas than a nuke (which would mean their loved ones will likely die soon too).
The OFA trolls who constantly cut and paste foolishness about how all the Democrats were dead set against the evil Bushitler and Demonic Cheney come to mind...
The Russian take over of Georgia was done using the exact, same tactics... as are being used here.
Murphy was an optimist
Apparently the poster hasn't seen the monument in Kyiv to the millions of people who starved to death under the boot of the Russians...
Murphy was an optimist
how quick Americans are to point out the wrong others are doing.
You're jumping from Russia trying to annex Ukraine to Russia trying to invade Alaska. They're more likely to send the tanks rolling into Germany first, and they'll probably annex China long before then.
Wow. Just wow. That was the most stupid statement ever on slashdot. And that's saying something.
Russia annex China? I'm surprised you actually can remember to breathe.
Where did I say that Russia would annex China?
I only said that they'd do that before they invaded Alaska.
It is just a matter of time that Russia, Ukraine or any other of the ex-soviet states fucks it up utterly. And with a crackhead like Putin in the Kremlin it already seems to have begun.
And yes, there are talks about sanctions, but as this happens the Russian company who builds the BUK system has an offinc in Amsterdam meant to whitewash money and getting a free ride on taxes here in Holland. I still remember how a few months ago a bunch of shitheads were criticising the fact we Dutch were questioning the tax exemptions on international companies here in NL. While STarbucks and CO are only abusing us Dutch worker's pockets there are some other of our lovely "guests" that directly shoot us from the skies. So, thank you heer Rutte and all our lovely liberal and centre right governments for all this.
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Perhaps someone already commented on this ( if so, very sorry ) - but how does a civilian access satellites and take pictures ?
Mid-east fighting, 2000 years and going strong.
There was no noteworthy hostility between Jews and Arabs until approximately one century ago. Prior to large-scale efforts to create a Jewish state by a coordinated Zionist movement, the Jews that remained throughout the Arab world were treated better than their fellow Jews in Europe. The idea that there is some 2000-year-old conflict between Arabs and Jews is not founded in reality.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
You think these are targeted?
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
Gaza is targeting civilians while hiding their rockets behind civilians.
Unless you're privy to some unreleased intelligence, Gaza does not have the capability to target civilians or anything else.
The rockets being fired from Gaza are crude by any standard. They don't have targeting capabilities. There are no guidance systems. There are no control surfaces.
If Israel apologists are so concerned about civilian casualties as a result of these unguided rockets, perhaps they can start exporting rocket guidance systems to Gaza. Until then, can you kindly shut the fuck up about "targeting civilians"? Thank you.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
The problem is with the readership. The numbers are right in front of you. The more scientific a story is, the fewer comments it gets. The more political, the more comments it gets.
The problem is with the readership on this site. Suggest you find a new site. I only still come here to post reverse-psychology when I see a post downmodded for not adhearing to the groupthink on this site.
I usually post something to the effect of "downmod this post" when I see a post that has been downmodded for disagreeing with the groupthink. It makes the rest of the readership look like idiots and shills.
Increasingly, I've been pleading to Dice editors to downmod these posts. Making it appear that shills exist that consciously want to build an echo chamber and silence dissent. People in support of Beta. And the community eats it right up. This place is now worse than the worst subreddits.
Screw You.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/ar...
http://jonathanturley.org/2014...
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
I've been a Slashdot reader and account holder since the days of the Halloween Papers, so I figure what I want out of this site counts for as much as what you want out of it.
You can ignore a story about which you don't care much more easily than I can read one that never gets posted.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Operation Northwoods
Are you high?
The tactic the civilians're describing would only work if Malaysia Airlines agreed to fly right over the Ukrainian Air Force's target area. And if they did that, and the Ukrainians repaid the favor by destroying their plane, why the fuck wouldn't they be all over CNN with the betrayal?
Sensor data is really easy to fake.
That you think none of those events have outcomes that will negatively affect US in the future only says a lot about your own imagination and ability (or lack thereof) to anticipate past your immediate needs. They undoubtedly will affect us and our economy, and there are courses of action to change it, but they are usually constrained by what is ethically and politically possible for us to do. Except for Russia where the constraint is simply that we can't afford a war with them so we have to tread lightly, but I guess that falls under political constraints.
If those in Gaza were actually targeting civilians, they death toll on Israel's side wouldn't be 32 soldiers dead out of 35 total dead.
If Israel was targeting rocket launchers, the death toll in Gaza wouldn't be 166 children out of 662 dead.
Being anti-Israel is not the same thing as being anti-Semitic.
Yeah, Detroit is fucked. Now, are people in Detroit too dumb to see through classic propaganda? Your own government is responsible for the coup in Ukraine and is now trying to start a war with Russia. That's what should have been discussed here. Of course the people who shot down MH17 knew what they were aiming at.
People forget that their own criminal president is about to be impeached.
If you think a majority wants WW3, I guess you're right. What else do you think Obama, David Cameron and the media are up to?
Honestly, if the photo's were not from the US intelligence I'd probably believe it. But since they are I reserve doubt.
Jeruvy
Did Fox News fuck the girl you liked in high school? Did Fox News pull down your pants in front of everyone at graduation? Did some little kid dress up as Fox News this Halloween and scare you? Fox News has been reporting on this shit for months.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/03/un-nuke-chief-iran-has-cut-stock-uranium-that-is-closest-to-weapons-grade/
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/17/un-nuclear-agency-claims-iran-cuts-uranium-stock-in-new-report/
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/23/un-says-iran-neutralized-much-its-nuclear-arms-grade-uranium/
If you want to talk about newsfiltering by a shady network, show me where CNN reported on Leland Yee, a California State Senator that was writing bills to make his automatic weapons smuggling operation more lucrative and laundered millions of dollars for an undercover FBI agent -- CNN was too busy talking about bridge construction and a missing plane that month.
The majority I mentioned are those who want to see the US reduce their involvement in foreign conflicts that have nothing to do with US core interests. The mayhem engulfing the Middle East and Eastern Europe is spinning out of control in part because all the warring parties know without a doubt that the US is not going to intervene militarily in these conflicts in any meaningful way. This state of affairs could actually enhance US security in the short term because as long as no one strikes the US directly like blowing up skyscrapers or bombing naval bases the US government will not have the support of it's citizens to get involved in any military conflict. We have already seen this in regards to Syria. Unfortunately sooner or later some one is going to see less US involvement and think that somehow translates to a decrease in US military capabilities and pull another 9/11 or "Pearl Harbor". After that happens they should have enough time to ponder the depths of their misjudgment before the first missile or spec ops team comes through their bedroom window.
USA throws cookies to Ukraine to have it as their sweet puppet, to be closer to Russia. Then USA develops a Fascist Coup plan in Kiev, and all the events following after that.
Ukraine fascists kill people in the eastern regions in thousands, to please USA.
This lie is fabricated by assholes in CIA.
I didn't say Jews and Arabs have been fighting for 2000 years, I said the region has been consistantly in conflict for 2000 years.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Except for this, but you're right, I did misunderstand your comment. My bad.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
With China's population, Russia would have a hard time annexing it. Although maybe if they got India's help, they could divide China between them. You're spot on about Russia's navy though - America has something like 10 operational nuclear-powered carriers, and Russia has maybe one.
My granny do the same - first imagine something 'bout us, then imagine proves and start telling we are not lucky with her. Still she cant use graphical editors, like those guys.