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What To Expect With Windows 9

snydeq writes: Two weeks before the its official unveiling, this article provides a roundup of what to expect and the open questions around Windows 9, given Build 9834 leaks and confirmations springing up all over the Web. The desktop's Start Menu, Metro apps running in resizable windows on the desktop, virtual desktops, Notification Center, and Storage Sense, are among the presumed features in store for Windows 9. Chief among the open questions are the fates of Internet Explorer, Cortana, and the Metro Start Screen. Changes to Windows 9 will provide an inkling of where Nadella will lead Microsoft in the years ahead. What's your litmus test on Windows 9?

545 comments

  1. I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    More attacks, more viruses, more confusion.

    1. Re:I know! by thieh · · Score: 1, Insightful

      More restrictions, more driver problems, more money needed to buy, more powerful hardware required, more "shove down your throat" on pre-built machines. Strangely enough, that also means more people make games/apps/stuff on it.

    2. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My up-times are larger then the time between their major releases..

    3. Re:I know! by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 0, Troll

      Everything with Linux is like a mishmash of products, technologies, standards all mixed together when nothing really works as efficient as it should

      FTFY

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    4. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      I resisted touching Win8, Win8.1, Server 2012, Server 2012 R2, I was hoping Win9 would be better. It looks pretty flat to me. I hope to avoid touching this release as well. Part of me is kind of hoping MS crashes and burns now. I didn't like the office ribbon when that was added. I absolutely hate the new Office 2010 and 2013 theming standards. The way things are moving is from yuck to revolt. I feel sicker and more bitter. When I have a windows app to run I am still using Win7 or 2008 R2.

      IDK what MS is thinking, but I hate it. This makes working at a corporation more and more painful. I really wish they'd rethink this direction they're going and change course again and we could put this era in the file of bad memories and scary nightmares. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that it will be over anytime soon. God help us all.

    5. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Likely because he is a Linux user. Linux doesn't have much in the way of malware so you can be a complete idiot and install whatever you want and run whatever you like as root and still not get infected. However when the same idiot uses Windows then due to the popularity of the platform they end up installing and running malware.

      The intelligent approach is to be careful about what you install and run making sure it is from trusted sources no matter what operating system and not just rely on the fact that you aren't a large target.

      The biggest problem in terms of security is the user allowing malware to run and Linux is no better than Windows in that regard, we are often told how Linux users are "smarter" however if that were the case they wouldn't have so much difficulty with Windows.

    6. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except if you use KDE. Then everything is integrated and feels right together.

    7. Re:I know! by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      Something is wrong with either your machine or whatever is controlling the switching. I have never, ever had anything like what you've mentioned and my system has been running for months on end as well. You sir, most likely have non-Windows related problems.

    8. Re:I know! by meerling · · Score: 1

      Standard issues for any usable operating system that has the largest market share of the home users.

    9. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded so I'm posting as AC. The Metro/Modern interface is easy to fix with Classic Shell. After reading the article the most disturbing thing I took away was the rumor that all future versions on Windows won't have numbers or names. Talk about confusing to the consumer! They'd love to get everyone on to a rolling release and forced upgrades. I've been using Linux now for ten years and the only reason for booting Windows is the occasional game I can't get working in wine or VMware.

    10. Re:I know! by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      Why is every thread about Windows infested with Linux enthusiasts? If you've got nothing to say about Windows 9, WTF is the point of even commenting on this?

      Prick.

    11. Re:I know! by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      Correct. I have a good experience on Windows too, with both 7 and 8.

    12. Re:I know! by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really? Fewer driver problems on Linux? Seriously? I mean WHAT?

    13. Re:I know! by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      Just like every linux article is 'infested' with windows apologists..and apple fags too. Welcome to the tech crowd. We're a heterogeneous bunch.

    14. Re:I know! by ruir · · Score: 2

      You know there are several alternatives that do not involve Microsoft, right?

    15. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have Windows for work/IT things, and a couple home apps. I used to run linux as my main desktop but switched to OSX. I'm a sucker for eye candy and Apple has the most polished experience. I always keep a PC around so if Apple pisses me off I can switch back. I still use linux for Server things as well where I can. I'm scared about the Windows future. I spent a few golden years of my life in a 100% unix environment and I'm wondering if I can maneuver my professional life back into a gig like that and just drop MS and walk away. Shit is such a mess I just don't want to deal with it any more. I'm happy for the people that love it. Good for you guys. For the rest of us there's VMs to run old versions until some forced obsolescence and new application requirement forces me to use a newer version of their OS.

      How appropriate that the capcha word is 'trapped' LOL

    16. Re:I know! by NemoinSpace · · Score: 0

      Fair enough, but now you have 2 problems.

    17. Re:I know! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I presume you installed a 10+ year old Linux version so that it would be a fair comparison with XP?

    18. Re:I know! by Aryeh+Goretsky · · Score: 2

      Hello,

      Driver support, which was mature under XP because of its longevity, took a hit when Microsoft released new models for Vista and was late in delivering its DDK. On the other hand, driver support in Windows 7 and up have been pretty mature. In the case of Windows 8 to 8.1, my employer was able to get away with little to minimal updates of our software, which uses filter drivers, for compatibility with the new version of the operating system. The level of compatibility had previously been rare in Windows for us.

      As far as hardware goes, the difference between specifications for Windows Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 has been pretty small. A 1 GHz CPU, 1GB RAM and some disk space were the basic minimum requirements for each, if memory serves. Don't expect it to run great on that kind of systems for all uses, though, but it will run.

      And, yes, a new version of Windows usually means new features, both in terms of hardware and software. So, it's not a bad idea to try and time your hardware upgrade cycles to coincide with Windows releases if you want the latest shiny bits, which, as you noted, third-party devs are developing for.

      Regards,

      Aryeh Goretsky

      --
      Dexter is a good dog.
    19. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you experience up-times lasting longer than four hours, seek medical attention.

    20. Re:I know! by WillKemp · · Score: 1

      [......] they fail to achieve the other 10% which is the most important part!

      It's the most imprtant part for Microsoft, too - it's their marketing strategy. That other 10% keeps the suckers coming back for more - always hoping for the missing 10% and never getting it.

    21. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I presume you installed a 10+ year old Linux version so that it would be a fair comparison with XP?

      Huh?

      Nobody wants a "fair comparison", this isn't a game. They just want a working PC without all the malware, driver problems and costs of Windows.

    22. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny because I only see Windows enthusiasts. Perspective is a bitch eh

    23. Re:I know! by RandomFactor · · Score: 1

      I have Windows and Mint also. (Primarily windows, though that's a practicality thing for me, not a preference.) - Windows doesn't stay running months on end unless you don't patch. That's not an indictment of Windows, it is just the reality of maintaining a system well in that environment. - Why do people assume that if they don't experience a problem that the person that does is simply wrong/crazy/imagining/stupid. - If you don't run Windows routinely and keep it updated (which sounds like the case in the GP), then when you do boot it, EVERYTHING wants to update* and your experience is horrible until it all completes. Also not an indictment of Windows, just reality. * (unless you convince yourself that you can do it better and smarter than various manufacturers and lock down all automatic updates, which I posit is a bad idea generally for non corporate systems...and particularly those where someone boots into the OS out of protest once in a blue moon...)

      --
      --- Mercutio was right.
    24. Re:I know! by godefroi · · Score: 1

      I can buy, right now, a Core 2 Duo machine with 4GB of RAM from my local uni surplus, for $60. Up to 75% less, if I get lucky and they're still there long enough after the sell-on date. They even come with a Win7 license.

      You're definitely doing it wrong.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    25. Re:I know! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Maybe I am, maybe not, it depends on what you want. The PC is a short term solution, and I want it gone, will give it away in a short while. The house is small and it takes valuable space in the living room. The purpose was to repurpose it, and I was talking about that Linux was easier to install on it, rather than Windows, remember?

    26. Re:I know! by alva_edison · · Score: 1

      And brantondaveperson's comment was that the ease of the Linux install was due to the newness, and had you installed an equivalently new windows (7 or 8.1) you wouldn't have had as many problems. Conversely had you tried to install Debian 3.0 or 3.1, or a similarly aged Linux distro; I would expect you to have similar problems to the XP install.
      As to system requirements, most performance tests I've seen indicate that if you meet the minimum requirements 7 is faster than XP and 8.1 is faster still.
      However, you appeared to have the constraint of "low cost", and if you had the XP license it's not a surprise that's what you went with. Just be aware you aren't comparing apples to apples.

      --
      He effected a bored affect.
    27. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's not being obtuse, he's asking you to make an apples to apples comparison. The fact that you called a request to make a balanced assessment "obtuse", tells us that you are in fact being obtuse.

      You're not doing the Linux community (of which I am a member, with more Linux desktops than Windows desktops in my home) any favours by being a total, ignorant, douche.

    28. Re:I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I presume you installed a 10+ year old Linux version so that it would be a fair comparison with XP?

      Yep. He installed the latest Debian

    29. Re: I know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh you missed the informative posts a few weeks back where linux just doesn't have the same ability as windows for telling user they need to reboot to apply the updates correctly. Otherwise, with shared libraries in use, they don't get updated but you think it was. So its not bugging you because it's better, it's not because it doesn't know better.

      This happened with heart bleed patches for example.

  2. Clippy 2.0 by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Deal with it.

    1. Re:Clippy 2.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      People actually still use Windows?

    2. Re:Clippy 2.0 by smittyoneeach · · Score: 4, Funny

      "No," said Bob.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    3. Re:Clippy 2.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people still have work to do with the MS Office and other Windows-only applications. And games to play at home. I use Debian myself for everything but gaming at home, but using Windows 8 hours a day still pays my salary.

    4. Re:Clippy 2.0 by Zappy · · Score: 1

      Cortana is Clippy 2.0

    5. Re:Clippy 2.0 by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Simple: cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  3. Alternative Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unballmering Windows

    1. Re:Alternative Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows, Highlander movies; even numbers suck; et cetera.

    2. Re:Alternative Title by rtb61 · · Score: 4

      Yes, a stable and secure windows 2000 pro with some optional trimmings on the side.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:Alternative Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows, Highlander movies; even numbers suck; et cetera.

      The joke usually references Star Trek movies.

    4. Re:Alternative Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen Highlander 3 and it was amazingly sucktastic. I think that the joke is that all Windows versions and Highlander movies suck.

    5. Re:Alternative Title by powerlord · · Score: 1

      So they're throwing out the new Chair interface?

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  4. The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet another year of Windows on the Desktop. Sorry fanbois.

    1. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now if only they could make the OS worth buying rather than forcing it on people that buy non-OSX prebuilt systems.

    2. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Now if only they could make the OS worth buying rather than forcing it on people that buy non-OSX prebuilt systems.

      You do realize desktop Linux distros have been unbelievably easy to install (or even run from a Live CD) for the last decade or so don't you? Nobody has been "forced" into using Windows just because it happened to ship as the default for a very long time.

    3. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and they still manage to suck

    4. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yet another year of windows 7 on the desktop to be precise.

    5. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sad but true.

    6. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by mjm1231 · · Score: 1

      Now if only they could make the OS worth buying rather than forcing it on people that buy non-OSX prebuilt systems.

      You do realize desktop Linux distros have been unbelievably easy to install (or even run from a Live CD) for the last decade or so don't you? Nobody has been "forced" into using Windows just because it happened to ship as the default for a very long time.

      And yet it doesn't stop them from charging you for it.

      --
      Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
    7. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by AudioEfex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You do realize desktop Linux distros have been unbelievably easy to install (or even run from a Live CD) for the last decade or so don't you? Nobody has been "forced" into using Windows just because it happened to ship as the default for a very long time.

      That's like telling someone that "a space shuttle is really easy to use, someone on the ground actually presses the "launch" button for you!"

      Sure, automated initial installs have been all wrapped up in little wizard-like packages. That's not the point, it's the ongoing installation and management of packages and versions and such that you have to keep up on.

      I get Linux, I do. I have used it on spare PC's before. But I just don't have time to use it on my main machines, because while I'd love that much time to tinker around and do all kinds of clever things with it to hone it to be the ultimate OS for me - I just don't have that kind of time to spend on it consistently. You have to "keep up" with Linux as a hobby way too much for folks that just need to get tasks done on a PC when they sit at it (especially with tablets in the picture, as for a lot of us we spend a lot less time tied to larger machines since we do a lot of consumption that way now).

      It's one of those things that I'm glad it's there, I wish I had time - and maybe someday, but since I don't install crap on my PC and I don't go to sketchy websites (well aside from this one LOL), and I take a modicum of security precautions, I do OK with Windows. I never have to ask if I can run something on my machine, why I buy a product that can connect to a PC via USB or network (camera, Blu-ray, etc.) I never have to wonder if the driver software will work for me or if I'll have to spend hours hoping to get it working with whatever I can scrounge up, I never have to search out solutions around how to do what I want, etc.

      In the end, yeah, Windows, yuck, but deal-able, and it's really disingenuous to pretend that because they have dumb downed the initial install package to Windows levels, that the actual ongoing user experience of Linux is nearly that plug and play for most folks, so to speak.

    8. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by penix1 · · Score: 2

      What you are talking about is the difference between those that see computers as appliances and those that take an interest in the workings of that appliance. And with today's distros being geared to making the install as easy as possible (for whatever level of literacy you have) it is making Linux easier for those that see it as an appliance.

      To put this into the proper slashdot car analogy it is the difference between the guy who always puts new gear and tricks out their cars and their wives who get into it, toss the kids in the back seat and goes. That wife really doesn't appreciate the work done by her husband until something goes wrong.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    9. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by ruir · · Score: 0

      As a pure anedoctal tale, I lent/gave an old HP notebook to my wife for she to have a computer at work. She and her workmate have been using it to be on the Internet, managed to configure the printer for it, and also managed to write documents on it without asking me anything. And then the damn thing keeps working without giving problems and not having viruses, the irony. In contrast, the Windows home computer of her workmate is almost always fucked up. Funnily enough, a couple of weeks ago her workmate asked if I do not mind installing Linux in her home computer...The thing is that many people only use their computers for facebook and Internet nowadays, and of all my extended family, most of the time they are either having retarded problems with Windows and Skype, and with infections...

    10. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Yes I agree, but that's not what I was rebutting, I also restated it to try and avoid confusion which is that nobody is being "forced" into using Windows just because it is what ships with systems. You seem to be saying the issue is lack of viable alternatives, perhaps that's true.

    11. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by exomondo · · Score: 1

      And yet it doesn't stop them from charging you for it.

      So people use it simply because they paid for it?

    12. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by penix1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. It is because people are treating a computer as an appliance. If it works out of the box they keep using it. Also, people won't go out of their way to replace a working product especially one they paid money for.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    13. Re: The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anserine - Newbies try MINT Linux - Old pros enjoy your snappy responding systems doing real multitasking without crashing regularly while using up all your resources. All while not being limited by the OS police and much less clicking - damn 'are you sure' pest prompts!

    14. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by exomondo · · Score: 1

      So what's the problem?

    15. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by ruir · · Score: 1

      Lets face it, people buy computers like a fridge or TV, and 99% of them wont change the OS it came with. That is why Microsoft fought nail and tooth with PC makers to only include DOS and later Windows in the default installations.

    16. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Of course they do and if they work they'll not bother to change it. They could quite easily change if there were a reason to but there isn't so they won't.

    17. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by chipschap · · Score: 1

      There is no problem. I could care less if other people run Windows as long as I don't have to. If somebody buys a computer with Windows pre-installed and then decides to run Windows because it's an appliance mentality, no skin off my nose. If they're happy, great.

      The primary problem for me, though, is in being forced to pay for Windows. I build my desktop machines from components so it's not an issue there. Laptops ... it's an issue.)

      The secondary problem is friends and relatives asking me for help with their Windows computers, but I can happily tell them I don't run Windows and sorry, can't help; however I'd be happy to install Linux for them.

    18. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by chipschap · · Score: 1, Informative

      "In the end, yeah, Windows, yuck, but deal-able, and it's really disingenuous to pretend that because they have dumb downed the initial install package to Windows levels, that the actual ongoing user experience of Linux is nearly that plug and play for most folks, so to speak."

      I don't disagree, and the average Jane won't be able to maintain Linux (although I wonder if the average Jane can maintain Windows, either, if something goes wrong).

      But consider this situation: I set up a Linux machine for my wife to use (she likes to click on, well, everything, and I figured it would be safer). I do updates every so often. I support it for her. But it's not like it needs much support.

      She doesn't even know it's not Windows. She has no idea what she's running and doesn't care, as long as she can browse, do email and Facebook, etc.

    19. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by no1nose · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 Pro 64 bit is hard to beat. We migrated all of our workstations at work from XP to 7 last year and I doubt we will do another mass migration for 6 to 8 years. At home 7 Pro is pretty bad-ass too. I hope they don't pull the plug on it.

    20. Re: The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people where forced to install Windows themselves then you would be correct.

    21. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      Installation is not the problem. It's mostly driver and software compatibility that holds it back.

    22. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by terjeber · · Score: 1

      it is making Linux easier for those that see it as an appliance

      Which is to say to someone who would like a stroll on a hilltop (99% of all users) that it is easier to climb K2 than Mount Everest.

    23. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It's one of those things that I'm glad it's there, I wish I had time

      You've got plenty of time to run something down with comments that were barely accurate way back when you had to install Slackware from floppy disks. Drivers come with linux instead of having to be downloaded like on MS.

    24. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      2015 will be the year of the Android x86 desktop. Not for everybody, but for all the 'relatives' that are unable to keep their installations clean and sane.

    25. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by jandersen · · Score: 1, Informative

      I get Linux, I do. I have used it on spare PC's before. But I just don't have time to use it on my main machines, because while I'd love that much time to tinker around and do all kinds of clever things with it to hone it to be the ultimate OS for me

      IOW, you are saying that Linux is only a toy; that you for your condescending attitude.

      For your information, I use Linux exclusively because I don't have time to tinker around with Windows. There are things that Windows is good for - apparently it is a good gaming platform, but then I don't play much - but there are so many things where Windows is simply not worth the hassle. And of course, in Windows you have to go out of your way to use open source - every time I've had to install Windows, it seems to come springloaded with incentives to buy applications for things you get for free in Linux. And the reason to use Linux is even stronger in a professional setting - unless you are working exclusively with non-technical administration, Linux (or any UNIX, really) is a must. Just one example: installing databases like Oracle or DB2 on a network of UNIX servers. The installers invariably require X - which is not the slightest problem for Linux; you just connect from your X based desktop with 'ssh -X' and you're set. In Windows you have to first realise that there is such a thing as X, then you have to figure out how to get it to work in Windows, etc. In effect, if you run Windows, you are faced with an uphill struggle.

      I haven't used Windows at all for the last 15 years, give or take, except for when friends and family run into problems - again. Every time I have to fix things, it turns out that large parts of the interface have changed, the control panel calls things something new and puts the old things in new boxes etc; it doesn't help make it easier. In UNIX these don't change much over time, and they are pretty much the same across different platforms too. I suppose Windows is OK if all you do is inside the walled garden of MS Office.

    26. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It simply seems that you are much more familiar with Linux than Windows. That's probably why the latter causes more endurance to you. To me, modern Windows has been a breath of fresh air compared to the brokenness of Linux desktops.

    27. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are doing it wrong. Package management and versions and stuff? You don't need to care as all mainstream distros have automatic update management.
      If you use something like ubuntu (which tries to be cutting edge) you will need to install updates more often than for example on debian but this is basically an automatic popup where all you have to do is click "ok". No version checking, no automatic breaking,... nothing.

      I had to install linux on two new laptops a few months ago and I did a plain vanilla ubuntu install, changed nothing (not even the background image). Everything worked out of the box. But, and this is the important part, if you do run across something that is not to your liking you can switch.

      After trying unity for a couple of months I came to the conclusion last week that it just doesn't cut it for me, so I installed gnome with one easy action. So to recap: I ran vanilla (no changes at all) for a couple of months but I decided the GUI was not all to my liking and in 10 minutes I had an entirely different environment that also worked out of the box (no manual reconfiguration or anything).

      Try that with windows 8, hell even windows 7 has ancient bugs that makes it an incredible pain to use and you can't do anything about it. Ever.

    28. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure I follow you. Is your complaint that Windows doesn't have X for you to remotely run an installer for a different machine running UNIX? Does your flavour of UNIX happen to come with Windows remote admin tools installed by default?

      I can't disagree with your gripe with the control panel. Every version seems to fragment even more so you have yet another hoop through which you must jump to get to the same old dialogues that have been in there since NT.

    29. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by jandersen · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I follow you. Is your complaint that Windows doesn't have X for you to remotely run an installer for a different machine running UNIX?

      No - that was just an example. I was replying to the OP which seems far too smug and condescending for my taste. Especially the idea that Linux somehow is just a toy, not fit for real work. My point is that from where I sit, "real work", when it comes to IT, is done on UNIX - and now-a-days mostly Linux - whereas Windows is mostly a hindrance, at least in the server room. It all depends on what your job is.

      Does your flavour of UNIX happen to come with Windows remote admin tools installed by default?

      How would I know? I hardly ever touch Windows, and only wearing gloves :-) Do you mean rdesktop? Remote access to Windows was added as a sort of afterthought, and it still doesn't have very good support for multiuser timesharing. UNIX, on the other hand, was always built around that concept, and even X is mostly a networking protocol.

      That is another thing about Windows: you always have to use specialised tools for doing anything. That's why you even ask the question about remote admin tools; in UNIX you just log on to a command line session and edit the relevant files etc. There is rarely any need for specialised tools beyond a text editor, and the idea of having remote admin tools is a bit alie.

    30. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      The primary problem for me, though, is in being forced to pay for Windows. I build my desktop machines from components so it's not an issue there. Laptops ... it's an issue.)

      Even though I do use Windows as my desktop, I absolutely agree that listing the price of Windows as "$0" or "included with system" is extremely misleading. Pre-built systems from companies like Dell should list the OS as a line-item price just like every other optional feature. At the very least, if Windows is the default, you should be able to subtract it for some kind of credit.

      Of course, then we'd get into situations where Linux distros installed on such systems would be priced as much or more as Windows as an "installation fee".

    31. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      The secondary problem is friends and relatives asking me for help with their Windows computers, but I can happily tell them I don't run Windows and sorry, can't help; however I'd be happy to install Linux for them.

      Thats what I do after supporting Windows in my dayjob since 1991. Now that I'm retired, I don't need that kind of aggrievation. I've converted quite a few friends/neighbors over to Linux, after telling them all the malware they attracted when using Windows won't be there anymore.. One friend, who seems to love to click on anything/everything, who I converted over to Linux about a year ago, called me a while back with a weird error he was getting in his email client... Turns out he picked up one of the spams that carry cryptolocker, and the odd message was cryptolocker trying (and failing) to encrypt his files... This was before the current "easier" way to remove/unencrypt cryptolocker infections. He was, dare I say, happy about THAT...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    32. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Sure, automated initial installs have been all wrapped up in little wizard-like packages. That's not the point, it's the ongoing installation and management of packages and versions and such that you have to keep up on.

      I find that management of packages on Linux is far easier than Windows.

      With Linux, I just apt-get upgrade or yum update and the OS and all my applications are updated to the latest version. Windows Update only does this for the OS itself (and some select Microsoft apps), so all the other apps need to either be manually updated or you need to have dozens of auto-updaters running (either as services or scheduled tasks). I know that there are some websites that give you a one-stop updater for a lot of popular software, but there's still a lot of other software that they don't support.

    33. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      In Windows you have to first realise that there is such a thing as X, then you have to figure out how to get it to work in Windows, etc. In effect, if you run Windows, you are faced with an uphill struggle.

      I use Windows as a desktop, and Linux on servers every day, and I think you have been blinded by the fact that you only use Linux.

      Anyone tasked with "installing a database" on Linux will know about X-Windows, and if they use Windows, they will also know that there are dozens of X servers available for Windows. Cygwin takes all of 15 minutes to install and configure to have an X server running. This also gives you bash, ssh, git, etc. I interact with our git repositories solely on Windows...it's no different from using Linux.

      And, I use Windows as a desktop because I don't want to "tinker with GNOME/KDE/whatever". Putting a shortcut to just about anything (program, folder, host, URL, etc.) anywhere on my Start Menu is a whole lot easier than the last time I used an X desktop manager: right click on the item, choose copy as shortcut, open the Start Menu to the folder where I want the shortcut, right click and choose paste. It may now be this easy with modern X desktops, but it's been this easy with Windows for 15 years. And, don't get me started on the lack of universal clipboard under X. It's gotten better, but there are still some apps that you can't even copy and paste text between because they don't use a common clipboard interface. For graphics, it's a complete crapshoot.

      On the other hand, Microsoft has no clue how to do user elevation correctly at the GUI level, despite the fact that the Windows security model is far more robust than the simple POSIX owner/group/world system. I also think MS is going down the "pretty but not functional UI" rathole fairly quickly, and if it keeps up, Linux may end up being easier to use for even casual users.

    34. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Remote access to Windows was added as a sort of afterthought, and it still doesn't have very good support for multiuser timesharing.

      Windows Terminal Services is a complete implementation of "multiuser timesharing". It's only a "server" product, so you don't generally see it unless you are an admin. Linux doesn't really separate out "server" vs. "workstation" versions, so that may be where you are confused.

      On the other hand, every Windows version has support for running programs in different user security contexts at the same time, just like Linux, and because of this there are free (as in beer, at least...some also libre) add-on products that give you many of the "server" features you are used to in the POSIX environment. For example, it's trivial to add sshd functionality to Windows because the security model allows multiple users to log in at the same time.

    35. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pro version sucks.. it doesn't come with minesweeper and solitaire. And the only pro feature I wanted (the Unix prompt) is in Enterprise and Ultimate only ;). Else it's fine.

    36. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by mrbcs · · Score: 1

      To me, modern Windows has been a breath of fresh air compared to the brokenness of Linux desktops.

      AMEN to this.

      I gave up on Linux years ago. Too many choices. Too many problems.

      Android seems to have it together. One OS, make it consistent and make it work.

      The irony is Linux on the desktop has failed where Linux (Android) on a tablet seems to be doing fine.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    37. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by PeelBoy · · Score: 1

      You don't even have to do that much on most distros anymore. There's GUI front ends that make it even easier. With packages that aren't included in the GUI, you can just download them and double click them like any other executable. Easy.

      Speaking for people who think Linux is hard that is. For the most part I'm with you, I prefer using the command line.

    38. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "ultimate", "pro", "enterprise", OMG these names lol....

    39. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      You should look into System Center 2012 Configuration Manager and User State Migration - we migrated 1200+ desktops from XP to 7 in about a month.

    40. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by devent · · Score: 1

      I don't think you "get Linux". Linux you just install once and then it runs and runs, regardless of any updates. Case in example, I installed Fedora 19 for my mother. After a few months I make an update, that was over 300 packages. Download in the background, updates in 20 minutes, restart, finish. No problems. New Fedora 20 comes out, I just make a distribution update. That was over 1000 packages. Download in the background, updates in 40 to 60 minutes, restart, finish. No problems. And Fedora 20 is a so called "bleeding-edge" distribution. If you use Ubuntu LTS or Debian Stable you have even less of a hastle.

      I used Linux now for over 6 years. Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, Fedora. And I never "tinker around and do all kinds of clever things with it to hone it to be the ultimate OS for me". Just install it, finish, and it works.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    41. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I think it's software more than drivers, but that's an issue to take up with software vendors. Desktop Linux is technically a great operating system, even Windows Phone, webOS and Meego are technically a great operating systems but ultimately they all fail as operating systems from the point of view of being able to run applications and that's the primary job of an operating system, that's all anybody cares about.

    42. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      Linux you just install once and then it runs and runs, regardless of any updates.

      I wish I lived in your world.

    43. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Except that user-friendly Linux distros do work nicely as appliance computers. What I really want is an appliance-like OS that runs all the neat Unix tools I like natively, and I can get that with Linux.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    44. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by devent · · Score: 1

      I used Linux now for over 6 years. Ubuntu, Debian, Suse. On at least 6 different laptops. Just install it, finish, and it works.
      Sure, sometimes you have problems with drivers because the hardware vendor does not support Linux. But that have nothing to do with Linux itself.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    45. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by devent · · Score: 1

      The only trouble I had was with Debian Sid, because of the rolling-release updates. The updates were broken some of the time. But the system was still running fine, it just meant that I had to wait a few weeks so that the updates were fixed.
      Compare that with Windows updates, and the news that update X broke the system.

      http://www.howtogeek.com/17962...
      http://threatpost.com/microsof...
      http://www.sevenforums.com/win...

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    46. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      And the only pro feature I wanted (the Unix prompt)

      What are talking about, Powershell? You can install that on any version of Windows. If you are talking about an honest-to-goodness Unix prompt then install cygwin or something that gives you bash or some other Unix-style shell.

      Or is there something else I'm not aware of?

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    47. Re:The Year of Windows on the Desktop by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Flip a couple bits in the registry, make a SKU and charge and extra $100. They've been doing that for 20 years.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  5. Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, give me transparency, name it whatever you want, just give it to me. I don't want your flat color bs.

    1. Re:Aero Or Go Home by thieh · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's right, we already got "High Contrast" as the flat color theme.

    2. Re:Aero Or Go Home by armanox · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly!

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    3. Re: Aero Or Go Home by macs4all · · Score: 1

      If it's Transparency you want, have I got a deal for you...

      Jus' Sayin'...

    4. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      That's just taste. I turned transparency off. Also that stupid window fall down animation. I don't want an "artistic" interface, I have programs for any art I want.

    5. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously, give me transparency, name it whatever you want, just give it to me. I don't want your flat color bs.

      This. Fire the UX department and just give me Win7's UI. (Ditto for you, Firefox, GNOME, and Flickr.) All the UX department does is make the marketing department happy and drive customers to competing services.

    6. Re:Aero Or Go Home by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd be happy if they brought back windows 2k GUI with its fast and lean gdi+ acceleration. It's a GUI that doesn't clutter up my desktop with huge window decorations and widgets, nor give me grief and/or performance problems with windowed gpu accelerated applications. Windows 8's is the worst of both worlds: it clutters up the desktop, and, unlike windows 7, the display manager can't be turned off without invasive, system breaking hacks. Even with windows 7 the explorer is broken compared to 2k/xp, but at least I can get 95% of what I want with a few shellstyle.dll hacks and some registry tweaks.

    7. Re: Aero Or Go Home by epyT-R · · Score: 2, Insightful

      'just sayin...' is a crutch for people who want to put something out there without vouching for it. In this case, the reason's obvious: today's finder is right up there in shittiness with metro. Like microsoft, apple doesn't want you browsing files, they want you 'searching' for everything.. Yuck.

    8. Re: Aero Or Go Home by macs4all · · Score: 2

      I used "Jus' Sayin' " simply to denote something that the OP wanted, that was already present in an alternative OS (OS X).

      As a user of OS X since 10.0.0, IMHO, The Finder, even at it's shittiest, is head and shoulders above any "explorer" version out of Redmond.

      And at least Spotlight frickin' WORKS...

    9. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if it is just taste, the users should be able to choose their taste.
      Now they got an ugly interface forced through their throats - if they like it or not...

    10. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I also want the ability to adapt the window and title bar widths and styles and the font sizes. One size or style does not fit for all, no matter how arrogant the UX designers at Microsoft or any other company are. If you make me select your way or highway, I'll rather move my money elsewhere than use a UI 8 hours a day that makes me angry, disgusted and sad.

    11. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translucency not transparency! Also blurring has to be back.

      It was the reason I finally decided to dump Linux desktop years ago, because they cannot get fast blurring due to poor driver quality. They even had to resort to cheap hacks such as suspending blur effect while window is being moved!

      I'm willing to trade Aero for all the NTFS performance gain they made in Windows-8, since fast SSD renders that sort of improvement (journaling-related flush?) nearly pointless anyway.

    12. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i found going from xp or 2000 -> windows 7 - all the settings, config options etc were changed pointlessly. i used to know how to everything by memory even if it wasn't untuitive. windows 7? they *completely* scrambled everything so bad. and they ruined explorer in 7 yep. never touched windows 8 except for demo models at big box stores. only needed once glance at their stupid wonky moronic tiles.

    13. Re: Aero Or Go Home by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      The dongle is too burdensome to run OS X on my hardware.

    14. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I have programs for any art I want." - Spoken like a true art connoisseur.

    15. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely. The visual appearance of Win 7 is much nicer and kinder than Win 8, which is oppressively brutal. All of those primary colors? What are we, 3 or something?

    16. Re: Aero Or Go Home by macs4all · · Score: 1

      The dongle is too burdensome to run OS X on my hardware.

      Ha ha. I see what you did there.

      Ah, I assume you are referring to the mythical "Mac Tax" argument. So Clever. So Original. And so wrong.

      So, I assume that you are building a "White Box" computer, right? Because that is the only way you will assemble a machine with a given set of specs that is significantly less expensive than "brand name" computers, regardless of the brand. And that only applies to desktops and servers.

      And when it comes to laptops/notebooks, you don't have the DIY option; so the question then becomes a matter of build quality. And we all know who owns that space, hands-down.

      ...And now let's talk about the value of the included software (not crapware, trialware or adware; but actual, real-world-useful Applications). People like you never seem to assign any Value to that, even ones who earn their livelihood writing Application software.

      And now that OS X Updates are FREE, I think we need to be focusing on The Windows Tax (which is ANYTHING but Mythical, and ANYTHING but insignificant, especially over time).

    17. Re:Aero Or Go Home by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Hey, at least in Windows 8 they brought back the go up a directory button. Though by this time I've gotten so used to using backspace that I don't even push it despite it being there.

    18. Re:Aero Or Go Home by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed that Windows 8 is so advanced it's incapable of the "classic" Windows 2000 look that every other Microsoft OS in the last 15 years could do. And from a usability point of view, I could write a book on why Flat UI sucks. As far as I'm concerned the last version of Windows that wasn't eye-gougingly ugly by default was 2000. Actually, Windows 7 wasn't all that bad, but I still strongly prefer the "classic" look. But of course, Microsoft is so hypnotized by this whole "Flat UI" nonsense that they won't let me have it any more. Or they are so incompetent their state-of-the-art software can't display a 15-year-old UI scheme. Either way, stupidity or malice, it's really pathetic.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    19. Re:Aero Or Go Home by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 is almost literally like going back to the 1980s. And the default wallpapers are all vomit-inducingly ugly. I agree that every UI designer at Microsoft should be fired and go spend their time making hideous public sculptures in major metropolitan cities that I don't live in like all their po-mo art school friends.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    20. Re:Aero Or Go Home by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      That's what happens when blind relativism is taken to its extreme. 'Everything is as good as everything else' and all that.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  6. Spolier Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Suckage.

  7. Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Haters gonna hate, but I think it looks awesome. Love my two touch screen ultrabooks; they are truly awesome. Hate the Surface RT (sucks balls), and love my two Windows 8.1 desktops (home and work). A better working start menu is most definitely welcome for lots of people I know. It sucks that I have to post anonymously here because there are so many fan girl haterz.

    1. Re:Haters gonna hate by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Funny

      You know what I love even more than than Win 8.1 on my Surface Pro 1? The side glances of envy from MacBook Air fanboys as they watch me use the touchscreen.

      Downvote away haters, my karma can take it.

    2. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      That is not envy.... That confusion as to why that dork over there is trying to use a tablet as if it was a real computer.

    3. Re:Haters gonna hate by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2

      What facets of my Surface Pro makes it a fake computer?

    4. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The side glances of pity from MacBook Air fanboys as they watch me use Windows 8.1.

      FTFY

    5. Re: Haters gonna hate by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You know what I love even more than than Win 8.1 on my Surface Pro 1? The side glances of envy from MacBook Air fanboys as they watch me use the touchscreen.

      Yeahrightsure.

      But what does your face look like when they do this or this ?

      And they didn't even have to get Gorilla Arm to do it!

    6. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The only real problem I have with the Surface Pro is the small screensize (though that seems to be mostly resolved with the 3), so instead I found myself using my MBP more if I needed a laptop for lengthy amounts of time. Definitely prefer web browsing with a touchscreen and you can just use it as a tablet when doing that stuff and aren't stuck with the laptop formfactor.

      I'm sure people will find use cases where the Surface isn't ideal and pretend that this makes entirely useless for everybody but I do think it is a great device. If you don't need Windows and/or don't like touchscreen or stylus input then you probably would be served better by something else.

    7. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Windows 8.x

    8. Re:Haters gonna hate by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      Hey Anonymous Coward, you're gonna have to do better than that...

    9. Re: Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or when they do this?!

      Let's not forget that Apple users get more play from the ladies.

    10. Re:Haters gonna hate by ruir · · Score: 1

      The only real problem I have with Surface is it running Windows, and Microsoft penchant to kill products. And they practically giving it for free, must be some symptom of being too good, I guess. Pity people still do not want it.

    11. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The only real problem I have with Surface is it running Windows

      So install Linux on it then, it's commodity hardware that is used by all manner of other laptops and the bootloader isn't locked down or anything like that. The fact that it runs Windows is a good thing for me because many of the programs I use don't run on Linux.

    12. Re:Haters gonna hate by epyT-R · · Score: 0

      Well the reason you should be moderated down is that calling people names like 'hater' is not an argument for or against anything.

    13. Re:Haters gonna hate by ruir · · Score: 0

      You better know what you are talking about. People are jailbreaking them for some reason, and the ARM ones are not able to boot linux at all as only MS has secure boot keys for the ARM architecture. And I do not want MS products even for free. For the record, I threw a Windows GPS out of the window and in the very same day bought a Linux-based one. Much more saner, and does not oblige me to run a Windows virtual machine to even activate the "USB" interface. God, I hated it.

    14. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 1

      You better know what you are talking about. People are jailbreaking them for some reason

      You could always google it. They are jailbreaking the non-Pro Surface models, we are talking about the Surface Pro, which is not ARM and - like any other certified Win8+ system - it has secureboot turned on by default which you can turn off.

      And I do not want MS products even for free.

      Ok, well if you had just said that upfront we wouldn't even need to discuss it then.

    15. Re:Haters gonna hate by ruir · · Score: 0

      Buying a surface pro is a non-sequitur. For that kind of money I am FAR better of with a MacBook Pro machine. And if I want to run Linux I have far cheaper ones. Microsoft products are not to be trusted, nor it is guaranteed that despite being "standard" machines they will introduce some weird compatibility problems.

    16. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh get over yourself, nobody is "shilling". The reality is that nobody cares about an OS, it exists purely to run applications so even if you have the technically best and technically most advanced operating system ever created it is utterly useless unless it can run the programs that people need to run to accomplish the tasks that they need the computer for. Windows - and in large part OS X - accomplish this on the desktop for the vast majority of people, Linux accomplishes this largely on servers and smartphones. Windows fails at this on smartphones and Linux fails at it on desktops.

      Nobody is saying Windows is a superior operating system to OS X or Linux from a technical perspective - in fact I don't think you'll find an overall winner in any category - but from the perspective of being a desktop operating system, by and large it is. Just as Android and iOS are on smartphones and Linux is on servers.

    17. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 2

      Buying a surface pro is a non-sequitur. For that kind of money I am FAR better of with a MacBook Pro machine.

      That all depends what your use case is, obviously you don't need a touch screen or active stylus input. Saying your better off with an MBP than a Surface when you don't need the features of the Surface is as redundant as saying you are better off with a boat than a car because you need to travel across water.

    18. Re:Haters gonna hate by ruir · · Score: 0

      It is a known fact Microsoft pays recent graduates to troll forums - and it ir rather obvious here. And as you say well, nobody cares anymore about the OS, and the iPhones helped to cement that reality. The days of Microsoft hegemony and the mantra of binary compatibility are LONG gone. Linux does not necessarily fails on desktops for people who just need to browse the Internet and write small documents, albeit OSX is vastly better at that. As for tablets, I still believe it is an iPad market out there. In what touches Windows, you have got the big disadvantage that most of the non-technical people have the computer riddled with malware/viruses in a very short timeframe. I know for a fact, that more and more people are asking to have linux installed, not because they know how to use it, but because they are *tired* of having to deal with the Windows security problems. Overall I agree with your largely in what you are writing here, and it seems honest, however we have different points of view when it comes to tablets and desktops.

    19. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a real computer I use a MacBook Pro and not a toy.

      I have a surface pro 2. it certainly isnt a "toy" and it dual boots windows and ubuntu. also means i dont have to carry another computer just for the touchscreen.

    20. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 2

      It is a known fact Microsoft pays recent graduates to troll forums - and it ir rather obvious here.

      Can you point me to the factual basis? I have heard that quite a lot but it's always been from people who use that as a rebuttal rather than making a real argument.

      I'm sure many people can manage without Windows when they're just doing basic computing tasks like email, browsing and documents, but in that situation iPads are much more the device of choice than Linux PCs and everybody needing CAD, CAM, CAE. photo/audio/video editing, simulation & analysis, etc ... will continue to use Windows or OS X.

    21. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, they're also trying to use a Mac Air as if it was a real computer

    22. Re:Haters gonna hate by terjeber · · Score: 1

      Sigh. Clueless nonsense as usual from the religious nutcases among us. Read his post again, particularly the three letters of P, R and O.

    23. Re:Haters gonna hate by terjeber · · Score: 1

      Wow. So much clueless nonsense. I'd rather run Photoshop and Premiere Pro on a Surface Pro 3 any time of the day than on a MacBook Pro. The Surface Pro 3 blows the MacBook Pro out of the water. Seriously. I have both.

    24. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really ought to come out of the closet, dude.

    25. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know for a fact, that more and more people are asking to have linux installed, not because they know how to use it, but because they are *tired* of having to deal with the Windows security problems.

      Haven't had any security problems with recent versions of Windows. The days of some random worm attacking from Internet are gone. Unless you deliberately install shady software, you will be just fine.

    26. Re: Haters gonna hate by NoZart · · Score: 1

      Bored. ;)

    27. Re:Haters gonna hate by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      The OS?

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    28. Re:Haters gonna hate by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the original Surface RT, but I actually like my Surface 2 (RT). As long as you go in understanding that it is not a replacement for a full Windows machine, but rather something to compete with an Android tablet or iPad, you should be OK. Apart from the lack of apps, I haven't had any problems with my Surface 2. The lack of apps isn't much of a problem either, because I haven't found anything that I would want to do on a tablet. And it can actually do many things a lot better than an Android tablet or iPad. For instance, because it has a traditional Windows file system, all the apps can access network drives (or MS OneDrive) without having to write special code to handle connecting them.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    29. Re:Haters gonna hate by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      All large organizations (companies, political parties, government) pays trolls to post in forums/comment sections. It's the new name for "Public Relations"

      Read any recent book on Marketing and PR and you'll learn this. Work in Digital Interactive and visit any large advertising agency and they are right there, in plain sight, busily typing away. It's up to you, the consumer of this content, to decide who is a real person and who is a paid troll.

      In my opinion... if you see the same talking point all over the web -- it's the result of a coordinated troll army.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    30. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What facets of my Surface Pro makes it a fake computer?

      Ignorance and some poor naming choices by MS.

    31. Re:Haters gonna hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you point me to the factual basis? I have heard that quite a lot but it's always been from people who use that as a rebuttal rather than making a real argument.

      Of course they can't because it doesn't happen. Beyond the fact that it's not needed it's just stupid. No forum troll has ever swayed someone towards a product or service. Trolls do it for the attention, not because they believe they make an actual difference. I'd be willing to say that trolls do more damage to what they are defending than what they hate.

    32. Re:Haters gonna hate by spitballin · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that was envy. From PCWorld: https://cms-images.idgesg.net/...

    33. Re:Haters gonna hate by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I'm with you only I really like my Surface 2. Does everything I need when I'm on the go and has been the best travel device I've ever had.
      Also, don't fear the hate. Slashdot can be a rough place for we hardy few who are here and like Windows but that's no reason to post anonymously; embrace the hate as it only makes us stronger. (Also, there's more of us here than you might think)

    34. Re:Haters gonna hate by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      You know what I love even more than than Win 8.1 on my Surface Pro 1? The side glances of envy from MacBook Air fanboys as they watch me use the touchscreen.

      How are they able to look at you with their heads so far up Apple's ass?

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    35. Re:Haters gonna hate by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What struck me when looking at a Surface Pro, last time I was in a Microsoft Store, was the dinky screen and the mediocre keyboard. The MBPs I've seen in the Apple store had much larger screens and better keyboards. If I had to put up with that Surface Pro screen and keyboard, I'd be too frustrated to care about the other features of the thing.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    36. Re:Haters gonna hate by terjeber · · Score: 1

      Wow, so you looked at a Surface pro with a small screen, perhaps the SP2 and you didn't like it because it had a smaller screen than a Mac Book. Why not look at one with a comparable size? You are one of those clever people, right? Your mom still ties your shoe laces?

    37. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Ok but hang on, that is not a "known fact" in this instance at all. While you might say this is commonplace because PR people suggest it that doesn't appear to be the case here, in this case it clearly is "if somebody has a different opinion on a subjective matter to me i'll brand them a paid shill", apparently "Surface and Windows desktop suck" and anybody who doesn't agree with that is a paid shill, that's just braindead idiocy.

    38. Re:Haters gonna hate by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      They didn't have a bigger one in the store. I looked. Does Microsoft make large screen Surface Pros now? They didn't last I checked.

      Also, if you're smoking something, discontinue it. If you aren't, start.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    39. Re:Haters gonna hate by terjeber · · Score: 1

      Surface Pro 3.

    40. Re:Haters gonna hate by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      The challenge is, how do you sell a product to a demographic that is immune to traditional interruption marketing, sees sales as an evil profession, is more likely influenced by their online affinity circle than specifications documents, and brands corporations as evil? Simple. You go to the digital watering holes where these groups congregate. Like slash dot. And then you pretend to be one of them... You use a semantic listening tool to determine intent, and correlate that against the velocity of propagation (e.g. how messages spread from community to community) to build a key influencer map, identifying the potential evangelists in the community to create an online persona that speaks in a voice that will resonate with the community. It's not a conspiracy theory it's social media marketing 101.

      Saying "Anyone who disagrees with me is a paid shill" is no different than "Either you accept the entirety of the progressive/liberal beliefs or you are a ignorant, racist, homophobic, xenophobic hayseed clinging to guns and religion evil rethugnikan" - A clear sign of an immature, deluded person who thinks with their emotions rather than their brain. And BTW I could have just easily picked a fundamental right wing Christian who says "Either you accept ... or you're going straight to hell" IT'S THE SAME BEHAVIOR PATTERN but it's easier to pick on the progressives, they have extremely thin skins and come out of the woodwork like crazy when I make comments like that - it makes me howl with laughter. In tech it's more like "Your shit stinks. My shit smells like roses" -- and funny thing these are the people who generally act like prim a-donas but do mediocre work...

      Braindead idiocy is rampant, absolutely everywhere at terrifying levels. It's a wonder that as a species we've gotten as far as we have...

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    41. Re:Haters gonna hate by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The challenge is, how do you sell a product to a demographic that is immune to traditional interruption marketing, sees sales as an evil profession, is more likely influenced by their online affinity circle than specifications documents, and brands corporations as evil?

      Well clearly that doesn't work here, people are always called out for that and if not their point is rebutted. The problem is most of the time they are called out on it - like in this instance - is just because the person calling them out doesn't agree with their subjective opinion. There is no rebuttal, just an accusation because he/she cannot come up with a valid rebuttal.

      Saying "Anyone who disagrees with me is a paid shill" is no different than "Either you accept the entirety of the progressive/liberal beliefs or you are a ignorant, racist, homophobic, xenophobic hayseed clinging to guns and religion evil rethugnikan" - A clear sign of an immature, deluded person who thinks with their emotions rather than their brain.

      Correct, that's why I called this guy out on it.

  8. If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by smagruder · · Score: 4, Funny

    then it may be worth taking a serious look at. After all, MS seems to get every other major version right.

    --
    Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
    1. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Looking at OSX 10.10, why not have both?

      Although at this point, I'm shocked Microsoft just doesn't open up the APIs to let people completely reskin windows. I might come back to Windows if I can run LiteStep again...

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing hidden about the API. If you use the non-public facing libraries (Like Stardock does), expect it all to fall apart with a minor patch from Windows Update.

    3. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Wow, I never knew anybody that down on ANY version of OSX, but you say that OSX 10.10 is a combination of Vista and Windows 8? That is pretty bad.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 is very much like Vista... where do you stand on it?

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    5. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      except thats not true at all, but its so cute (no I mean fucking annoying) to hear in every microsoft story. Why even stop there, maybe you could tell us how much ME sucked, or how 640k ...

      just FYI, its lame when you have to try and be cool

    6. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      if someone who has used only windows xp for the last 12 years can be immediately productive, it will be ok.. given that it will be the only windows on new pc's and it's better than 8.. the preferred win7 will start to fade away from major oem offerings, or become even more of an expensive option than it already is.. so win9 is 'it' if one wants to stay in the windows platform.

      ui issues can be worked around.. look how fast alternatives came out for windows 8. the biggest problem is microsoft's insistence upon having a microsoft account, and use of trickery to ensure they are created, to login to the local pc, or to use the 'store' to download 'free' apps, or to use office 2013.. that's a total pain in the ass that no one should tolerate. and is the true failure of windows and office since windows 8, not the ramming of 'metro' down people's throats..

    7. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you use the non-public facing libraries (Like Stardock does), expect it all to fall apart with a minor patch from Windows Update.

      Many of Stardock's products don't even need that. Run a game that uses DirectX, and odds are at least even that you'll have problems with Fences giving you a corrupted desktop.

    8. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      OSX seems to be going downhill though. More and more iphone like, lack of innovation, bugs not getting fixed. At least it's free.

    9. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by penix1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the biggest problem is microsoft's insistence upon having a microsoft account, and use of trickery to ensure they are created, to login to the local pc, or to use the 'store' to download 'free' apps, or to use office 2013.. that's a total pain in the ass that no one should tolerate.

      Yet Google does the same with Android. Amazon does the same thing with its platform too. So this isn't unique to Microsoft.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    10. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      It's not like the early version of Vista, though. It's more like a late Vista service release.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    11. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by thegarbz · · Score: 2, Informative

      a) my phone is not a computer.
      b) you do not need a Google account to use android. You only need it to use Google services. The phone runs just fine without Google services.

      On the flip side you can't even receive windows patches without a Microsoft account on windows 8.

    12. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 2

      On the flip side you can't even receive windows patches without a Microsoft account on windows 8.

      While I can't speak for Windows 8.0, you do not need a Microsoft account for Windows 8.1. You will still be able to receive all patches without issue without ever creating a Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft account. Plus, you really should be on 8.1 anyway; it is a free update and as 8.0 is end-of-life as far as Microsoft is concerned, you won't be getting anymore patches for that version anyway.

      True, you do require a Microsoft account for many other features of Windows 8x, such as the Store, but that is to be expected as they expect the apps to be tied to a particular account (even the free ones, which is annoying). The functionality of other apps will vary; for instance, the OneDrive app (ne Skydrive) will not work unless you log-on with a Microsoft account but others work just as if you were on Windows7.

      However, WindowsUpdate works fine even if you never log-on with anything but your local account.

      I think Microsoft's attempt to tie its Windows OS to its online services is a terrible idea and probably should run them afoul of another monopoly investigation, but at least this one area Microsoft didn't screw up.

    13. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Informative

      More and more iphone like

      Either you don't use an iPhone, you don't use OSX, or you're intentionally lying. Other than the general change in icons/theme, what makes it more like iOS in this version? Are you one of those people that still manually starts Launchpad and then bitches about it looking like iOS because you started an app designed to add some very specific iOS functionality to OSX ... an App that is in no way the default and takes manual lunching every time you want to use it ...

      lack of innovation

      ... One feature: Continuity. Done. I just beat innovation in every other OS for the last couple of years as far as desktop users are concerned. What have other OSes been doing thats so innovative? Linux certainly doesn't have ANYTHING impressive to show off for the last several years unless you want to be really geeky, which 99.9% of the Linux desktop users don't care about, let alone the rest of the world. Most would argue Windows is going downhill in the UI aspect, with the pending save from Windows 9. So what is this innovative OS that you seem to be comparing to? OpenBSD? What?

      bugs not getting fixed.

      Now you've just proved you're being intentionally obtuse. I know I know, Windows doesn't get any bug fixes either. And yet somehow we see stories on slashdot about bug fixes causing some people problems. Just because your obscure bug doesn't get fixed doesn't make such a generalized statement fair.

      You're one of those people who just bitches to bitch, not because you have something useful to contribute.

      I have some complaints about 10.10 myself, but most of them revolve around aesthetic preferences, not actual usability. This whole 'everything should be flat squares with single colors and MAYBE some basic gradients at a 45 degree angle' crap that everyone jumped on the bandwagon of its just retarded.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    14. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not unique to Microsoft, but it's new to Windows - and it limits the ability to use a PC as a non-connected device, whereas Android and Chrome devices are connected by design.

    15. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More iphone like with the launchpad, plus more and more use of apple store.

    16. Re: If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Google products are free (as in free beer) whereas for Windows you have to pay...

    17. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's actually useful to have a Google account on your android phone if you use Google services. Having a Microsoft account on your desktop however serves no purpose other than letting MS track you.

    18. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      I used Vista, and as long as you had at least SP1, it wasn't bad. However, I find the new taskbar in Windows 7 is enough to make me never want to go back to Vista.

    19. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just the store (if it was, it wouldn't be much worse than anything else - even Android requires a Google account to use Google Play, although at least Android allows installing things without having to go through Google Play, unlike on Windows where you get no option to turn off the requirement that apps have a digital signature.

      I have a Windows 8.1 tablet. The only mail app that I can get requires a Microsoft account to check mails on my non-Microsoft IMAP e-mail account.

      Yeah, I've regretted not choosing Android ever since buying it.

    20. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      you do not need a Microsoft account for Windows 8.1

      This is a very ironic statement given that people with Windows 8 (now out of support and thus no more security updates via Windows Update) could not upgrade to Windows 8.1 without a Microsoft account to access the store. You may not need one to run it, but for many poor folk out there they couldn't even get it without one.

    21. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true anymore (but it was when Windows 8 came out originally). I installed Windows 8.1 awhile back and you can opt out of the Microsoft account, but they hide it to make it look like you have to have one. Scummy bastards.

    22. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you can't even get Android patches, at all.

    23. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "MS seems to get every other major version right."

      How original! Did you think that up yourself?

    24. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > On the flip side you can't even receive windows patches without a Microsoft account on windows 8.

      I'm able to receive windows updates on Win8 with local accounts only. Perhaps you should try RTFMing?

    25. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In response to 'b'. Google are doing their damnedest to invalidate this. Many of the Android APIs (such as location services) are being rolled into Google Play and this requires a Google account.

    26. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by gtall · · Score: 2

      OSX is not free. It is built into the price of a Mac. And it should be. Linux is free, and it shows it. The lack of integration among the UI parts of Linux is enough to turn punters off. Windows is also not free, yet they still cannot seem to get a UI that doesn't drive you into pointless clicking and clacking. Mostly, it is because they don't have a clear vision for what the interface should be or what it should do or how it relates to the underlying system. It's a bolt on.

      I've used all three. I prefer OSX, although I've not tried the umpteen Linux UIs, who has? But I also have some understanding of Unix and Linux under the covers so I can manipulate them usually to get what I need. Windows....well, I never took the time to learn it under the covers, but life is short and it is still Windows, the interface is just too horrid to use day in and day out.

    27. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      Sorry. Factually wrong.

      I just had to reformat my machine a couple weeks ago and, just like the first time I set up the machine from the Windows 8 final retail version, I used a Local account (no Microsoft Account tie in at all). After I installed all the normal Windows 8.0 patches I clicked the store and right there on the left was the huge-ass tile for the 8.1 update. I clicked it the machine started downloading it, and I went out for a couple hours to run some errands. No login prompt at all.

      When I got home it was (coincidentally) just finishing the install.

      I have a Hotmail account but I never enter the information on Windows 8 Mail (because I've heard it will convert a local user account setup to a Microsoft Account enabled one if you do. I also never use Skype out of the same concern. I access the Hotmail account as IMAP in Thunderbird, same way I do all my other email accounts, and IM with people on the MSN Messenger network using Pidgin to connect to it (news of MSN's death are greatly exaggerated -- by Microsoft to get people to start using Skype).

    28. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then it may be worth taking a serious look at. After all, MS seems to get every other major version right.

      Bah, with Microsoft's current attitude toward 8.1 I'm expecting win9 to be nothing more than win8.1 with some minor cosmetic changes and the return of the start button.

    29. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is true - about not requiring a MS account, and hiding that fact. I recently installed 8.1 **Pro** to join a domain, and they still did that crap on that edition.

    30. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      I must have had a ministroke or something because I meant to reply to the guy who wanted transparency back in place of the flat colors.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    31. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by TheBilgeRat · · Score: 1

      Is it really that hard to try KDE and Gnome? Those are the only two anyone should bother with if they want a modern DE experience on linux (you could toss XFCE in there as well, but the only decent XFCE implementation OOTB is Xubuntu, and people love to hate on Ubuntu, so...). They are also very polished for the most part.

      What you are REALLY paying for with Windows and Mac is tight, (usually) drama free hardware interface. When you think of how much black-boxing has to go on to get basic things running smoothly on Linux its amazing it runs at all.

    32. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

      I think Emerge is still around. I moved to it when I got bored w Litestep. It's a bit messy to set up, but once you get it right it's worth it.

      --
      X
    33. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression that you couldn't use the windows store at all without an account.

      It does look like that's the direction they are heading though, but if as you say you can perform some downloads without an MS account it's ok then.

    34. Re:If it's not like Vista or 8.0 (Vista II)... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      It'll probably work too. A lot of people complain about Vista, but if they ever actually used it they'd find it's not much different than Windows 7.

  9. Just the basics by stevez67 · · Score: 2

    Speed and stability. All the drama about new features, missing features, start menus and other preferences are all just nonsense. Just make it fast and stable.

    1. Re: Just the basics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about going back to the days of LOAD"*",8,1 may not be fast, but it was simple.

    2. Re:Just the basics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree.
      And backward compatible.

      And, for the parts that they get right, stop messing with them.
      An operating system can only offer indirect return on investment; there are only two reasons that businesses use computers (or do anything else):
            -To make more money
            -To spend less money

      Support those goals and it'll be a winner.
      Moving features around or radically changing how they work just gets in the way of productivity.
      The QWERTY keyboard isn't the most efficient layout, but we learned a lesson with Dvorak (I hope)...and with the metric system before that.
      And no one is talking about changing the alphabet that we've been using for hundreds of years.
      Progress is incremental.
       

  10. The real test? by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How my users react to it. I demoed 8 to my users, and got a resounding "HELL NO", due entirely to the start screen. They weren't buying it, and I don't blame them.

    Given the leaks so far, I expect my users will be onboard with the new version ( possibly with some grumbling about the "look" ). But I won't really know until I get it in front of them for some feedback.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:The real test? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Given that 8 was the "Just because it's called 'Windows' doesn't mean it needs a functional windowing system!" release, It's pretty hard to argue with them.

      Maybe some of that works on touchscreen laptops; but 'metro' is a tragicomedy on any monitor configuration worth using.

    2. Re:The real test? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most people are fine with it once you install Classic Start Menu. There is some good stuff in 8, and it's not like Vista where performance went to hell and a lot of stuff just broke. Having different DPI settings on each monitor is nice, for example. All they really need to do with 9 is fix the start menu.

      Having said that the multiple desktops feature looks nice. Something that should have been done years a go, but better late than never.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:The real test? by Lesrahpem · · Score: 2

      This is about your sig. Ever notice people remember Gatorade by the color and not the flavor?

    4. Re:The real test? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I ran 8 for a year and put up with all of the usability crap, but they lost me when my hard drive died and I found out how crappy the built-in backup software is. The damn thing doesn't save a disk image, nor have a similar way to recover from a completely dead disk. If I have to reinstall from scratch, it sure as hell wasn't going to be 8 again. So now I'm back to 7 and its sane backup program.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:The real test? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      And that's exactly what 9 is all about fixing.

    6. Re:The real test? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Having different DPI settings on each monitor is nice

      Cool, so now you can party like it's 1994!
      Surely they had that stuff before - or maybe it was only in addon software from Matrox, Nvidia etc.

    7. Re:The real test? by Alarash · · Score: 1

      I never got the reaction of the start screen. It's basically a full screen Start Menu. The Metro App are way more confusing than the start screen.

    8. Re:The real test? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      I never got the reaction of the start screen. It's basically a full screen Start Menu.

      Which is at least part of the problem. A Start Menu doesn't *need* a full screen, and it's incredibly wasteful and inconvenient to make it take up a full screen.

    9. Re:The real test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then your users are idiots. Probably the type that NEVER customized their Start Menu in any way (creating custom folders, deleting redundant crap) at all and instead rely on desktop shortcuts to start a program half the time.

    10. Re:The real test? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      oh yes, multiple desktops are needed. I remember I believed that Vista would come with them, just because it seemed an obvious feature to have. I was then pretty displeased to see them missing.

    11. Re:The real test? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      Yes, and?

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    12. Re:The real test? by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

      The start screen is silly, but it's so easy to not have to deal with. Hit Winkey+D. Ohh noes, whurs my start button?? Hit the Winkey and type the first few letters of the app you want. MS bet on people making decent metro apps, and so far every metro app is a broken and restricted version of the desktop app. Just get rid of that interface, it failed!

      --
      X
    13. Re:The real test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ll they really need to do with 9 is fix the start menu.

      That will ensure a blueray install disc...

  11. Clippy sings a Beatles song by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Rather than creeping you out by peering over your shoulder waiting for you too blunder so he can offer unsolicited advice instead He just sits there and serenades you with the Beatles song "Number Nine" until ask him a question

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Clippy sings a Beatles song by Quantum+Apostrophe · · Score: 5, Funny
      " waiting for you too blunder "

      It appears you are trying to say "to"...

    2. Re:Clippy sings a Beatles song by binarybum · · Score: 2, Interesting

      c'mon now- how is this not modded up?

      --
      ôó
    3. Re:Clippy sings a Beatles song by bankman · · Score: 5, Funny

      " waiting for you too blunder "

      It appears you are trying to say "to"...

      No, I think he was trying to say "U2"...

      --
      I feel so sig.
    4. Re:Clippy sings a Beatles song by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1
    5. Re:Clippy sings a Beatles song by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I see your talking about bad bands from the 1980's and 90's. Would you like to visit the Microsoft store and buy some singles?"

  12. Wifi Sense sounds cool by rsborg · · Score: 1

    Basically sounds like the OSX keychain, but using your name/credentials/etc to login to public wifi spots automatically - I wonder what kind of coverage they'll have?

    Other than that, though - seems like they're de-mobilifying the desktop OS part. Such a waste of money, attention and marketshare - all because Steve wanted to be more like the other Steve.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    1. Re:Wifi Sense sounds cool by guruevi · · Score: 2

      Given Windows 8 just clear-texts your login over WiFi/Ethernet (WPA2 Enterprise or 802.1x systems that do not behave like an Active Directory), I think Windows 9 may simply publish all your logins on an open port 80.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:Wifi Sense sounds cool by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      They also re enable the FTP and telnet servers by default!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  13. What about Windows 8? by Media+Archivist · · Score: 0

    I'm still trying to figure out what to expect with Windows 8.

    1. Re:What about Windows 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your figuring outs will merge with the expectation figuring outs before the nine, all the way to the continuoal figuring out what frigging direction Windows is going at the next patch tuesday and what to expect. That's the Windows convergence that have been talked about.

      I'd like to be told something about the internal changes the update brings, not about the user interface.

  14. Make the server version look like a server. by attemptedgoalie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Windows 9 will be interesting, and will break all kinds of things like every other upgrade does.

    But Server 2012 is unusable. R2 improved it, but they clearly hate their customers.

    1. Why does a Server install have boxes called "this PC" to click on. Just bring back "My Briefcase" and get it over with you lazy pieces of crap.
    2. Why does it have a snazzy new front end that then puts back up screens we had in Windows 3.1?
    3. I will cut the bitch that decided to use URLs for error messages, but not have them as active links so you could follow them.

    I wasted hours of my life trying to make .Net3.5 install on 2012 because a vendor swore they wouldn't support R2, but had to have 3.5. I finally just did R2 and told them it was that or no .Net. If Microsoft didn't want me to install .Net 3.5, they shouldn't have made it the top feature in the list to install. Hide it. Make it separate. Something. But top in the list, incapable of installing saying it can't find media no matter what you do with copying files locally, powershell/DISM/whatever? Bite me you no-testing-code-shipping pieces of crap!

    But I'm not bitter.

    --
    My mom says I'm cool.
    1. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Yeahhhhh.... we're staying on Server 2008 until Server 2012 or some future version behaves in a reasonable fashion.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re: Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need .NET 2 (got with 3.5) but it's auto-handled if you allow Windows Update to talk to internet. Yes you can use a WSUS server. It will use it if the WSUS server has it. If not, it calls WU. Dism is handy.

    3. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by dkman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      3a. The inability to highlight and copy from an error pop-up is one of the most retarded things I run into. This was a problem in 95, it really needs someone to take an hour and fix it already. (This is made worse by URLs posted, but even if they weren't clickable being able to copy/paste it into a browser would take a lot of the pain away.)

      --
      I refuse to sign
    4. Re: Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck that non clickable error link bullshit. The first time it happened to me I dismissed it as a simple stupid thing...but it now lights a deep fury I did not know existed within me every time I run across one, especially during an install when a prerequisite is one of those links.

    5. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by GreenEnvy22 · · Score: 2

      .Net 3.5 installs fine through add features on Win2012/Win8, but there is a big gotcha. If your company uses WSUS, which most large ones do, it breaks it. So at that point you do need to break out DISM, or point Windows to the install CD/image as a source.

    6. Re: Make the server version look like a server. by macs4all · · Score: 2

      But Server 2012 is unusable. R2 improved it, but they clearly hate their customers.

      1. Why does a Server install have boxes called "this PC" to click on. Just bring back "My Briefcase" and get it over with you lazy pieces of crap.

      2. Why does it have a snazzy new front end that then puts back up screens we had in Windows 3.1?

      That was my exact feeling. In fact, I have said multiple times about now it looks like Window 3.1... Only worse!

      I have to deal with that POS GUI every single day at work. Makes me ever so glad to get home to my Mac, where I can have multiple overlapping windows, multiple desktops and real window-management.

    7. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by DocHoncho · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Ctrl-C in any alert type box copies the content to the clipboard. Well, it copies much more than that, which is weird, but it does copy the important bits. Can't find an example right now, but the format is hideous. You've got to paste it in a text editor first, but it's better than nothing.

      My personal most hated feature of windows is that god awful "Choose a Folder" dialog that gives you a shitty, small tree list that you can't resize to stumble through your file system with. It's one of the absolute worst dialogs in computing history, and we've been stuck using it since at least Windows 95. The worst part is that it's possible to use the regular Open dialog for directories, but lazy ass devs use the simplest (for them) method of calling that fucking mess of shit.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    8. Re: Make the server version look like a server. by norite · · Score: 1

      The very first thing I did to win2012 R2 was install classic shell and turn off all the metro BS...no mess no fuss, everyone's happy.

      --
      -- Fuck Beta
    9. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was pretty surprised windows 2012 isn't even capable of a simple action such as changing the desktop color!
      For some reason I'm thinking it was the same in 2008, but can't remember so could be wrong there.

      Despite the pretty drastic improvements in security in Windows as of late, the sad fact is you still sometimes need to login as admin, and runas is not sudo.

      I've had a long standing tradition of making the domain admin desktop a painful bright red, and local admin a painful highlighter orange - just to assist in making silly and stupid mistakes when heavily multitasking and the one inevitable slip of attention occurs.

      Since the goal should be "get in, do the thing, and get out", the painfully bright colors generally assist with not wanting to be logged in there a moment longer than need be.
      I figured it would also be useful to know at a glance just how much damage you can do.

      Now granted on windows servers I typically remote directly in from my workstation, but anyone in this field long enough knows that sometimes that isn't a possible solution, and the possible and best solution sounds pretty insane.
      I certainly have made some interesting maps by bouncing around ssh sessions, and at least one instance of halting the wrong server because I hit control-d one time too many

      Fortunately that embarrassment is still a lesson I hold true today, but still as for the colors I figure every little bit helps and I'm not about to turn down a little bit of help
      (or at least not until Microsoft saw fit to remove such a feature from their server line...)

    10. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

      You are not alone, my friend!!

    11. Re: Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is.. Why the hell do you need 3th party software to circumvent something Microsoft is pushing on you? It should not be necessary at all!!

      Windows should be usable "out of the box" and not only usable with non-supported 3th party software (how well that might work).

    12. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The absolute worst part of that "Choose a Folder" dialog is that it's optional whether to allow the edit box, meaning that most programs don't use it. This makes it impossible to enter a folder that you can't get to via navigation, like hidden files or UNC paths. You also can't specify a folder that doesn't exist yet (e.g. for a new program install location).

      dom

    13. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lazy ass devs use the simplest (for them) method

      Don't we always?

      But more on-topic, the regular Open File dialog is way easier to use than that steaming old piece of excretia you're describing. I'm not sure which brain-dead Microsoft devs keep using it, but I really wish Microsoft would fire their sorry asses. The standard OFD has been standard for 15-ish years now.

    14. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Larry_Dillon · · Score: 1

      Let's add not being able to resize many error messages and dialog boxes so you can get a screen capture of the whole message.

      --
      Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
    15. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and you need the R2 source to add it to R2, can't use the R1 source.

      Why, why, why wasn't this feature included in the default SxS cache?

    16. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Agreed, and to make matters worse they FINALLY gave us sym links (libraries) in Windows 7 and then turned around and tried to cripple them in Windows 8 by making them harder to find - and use. Jeez Microsoft we had sym links on the VAX - Which is what Dave Cutler ripped off to make NT...

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    17. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by dkman · · Score: 1

      I absolutely agree with this. I added a handful of useful folders to the "Libraries" in 7. When I moved to 8 + Classic Shell (wouldn't even have thought about it without that) I was befuddled by the lack of ability to add meaningful libraries. I was able to add a few, but show in so few places as to make that process useless.

      I am of the opinion that your data should be central. You should double click your data file to launch the program to view it. Such as double clicking a doc file to open Word, rather than launching Word, then selecting File - Open, then browsing to your file and selecting it. Adding meaningful libraries that showed in Explorer and almost all dialog boxes made that process flow work well.

      In 8 I made a shortcut in My Documents to my main data folder and have to click through it. The other data is under My Documents, so it's not too tough to get into from there. It's just annoying when features go away for what appears to be no reason.

      --
      I refuse to sign
    18. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Xolve · · Score: 1

      I feel same when using choose folder dialog. I simply copy paste the path there.

    19. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      EXACTLY! And if you're like most folks, you have a deep folder structure like work\client\job\artifactclass so being able to create libraries (symlinks) to what you're focused on this week saves you a LOT of time, With Windows 8 it's click, click, click, click over and over all day long just to get to the folder.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    20. Re:Make the server version look like a server. by Bratch · · Score: 1

      I've been using the Ctrl-C on message boxes for a long time. It's just easier than a screen shot or snip. I was going to paste one here, but it said, "Filter error: Please use fewer 'junk' characters." I think many people will buy Windows 9 just to get the start screen fixed.

      --
      Beware of the Redittor who loans you a Sharpie.
  15. Ah well by skipkent · · Score: 1, Troll

    Over all I'm enjoying windows 8/8.1... The start screen isn't my cup of tea, but then again I use it the same way i use the start bar in Win7, hit the windows key and type a few letters then enter to select the app I want. Only difference is I can see the weather and maybe a news headline at the same time. One thing I love about it though is the new theme, it's like Win 3.1 done right, its simple, elegant and out of your way. So with pretty much instant start up time, great battery life, clean lines, and built in hyper-v Windows 8 is my choice, so I'm sure I'll enjoy 9 as well.

    1. Re:Ah well by skipkent · · Score: 1

      I'm just sayin d0gg it ain't that bad. My daily driver desktop uses Cent7, but when I'm on the road I don't want to have to worry about hibernation having a hiccup or taking that hit in battery life.

    2. Re:Ah well by armanox · · Score: 2

      Oh yes, let's bring back twenty year old themes! That's moving forward!

      Other points:
      * Start up times is not useful when most users don't shut down save for Windows Updates
      * I type stuff at the search bar that I need to see what's on the screen to type out completely. I need it to just be a small area (like Spotlight on OS X)
      * Hyper-V doesn't handle what I need it to do. So primitive compared to it's competitors.
      * I liked Areo glass effects. For the same reason I use Compiz on Linux - I want my desktop to look good.

      I'd comment on battery life, but I haven't run any benchmarks myself to compare with.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    3. Re:Ah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought an 8.1 laptop a week ago (I was going out of town for the weekend and needed a laptop now, I've already resized C: to see if I can get Linux up and running on it).

      I agree with the start assessment. Don't even fuck with the tiles, just type and go. Half the time I win+r and skip the start screen entirely, if I want to configure something I win+x and go straight to the control panel/admin cmd.exe to avoid the useless metro config screens that somehow float to the top of the search results (protip: if the icon shows a gear, don't even bother clicking it).

      I disagree with the theme assessment, at least on the desktop. In Metro where everything is maximized all the time, there's no problem but on the desktop it seems that the win7 title bars have struck back twice as hard this time around, and they all take up like half an inch of screen space on my laptop screen, and of course you can't drag them even the slightest bit off the top of the screen still, they snap to the top win7 style. Part of the problem is the app developers, I suppose, since windows's chrome starts above the Chrome tabs making the title bar look twice as thick, but it's excessive on pretty much everything.

    4. Re:Ah well by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Changing a theme for the sake of changing a theme isn't moving forward, it's just remodeling the kitchen. I happen to like my older theme because it's become invisible to me now. That's what I want in an OS UI. Why change for the sake of? It's like comparing car styles. Meh.

    5. Re: Ah well by macs4all · · Score: 1
      I'm just sayin d0gg it ain't that bad.

      Yes. Yes it is.

    6. Re:Ah well by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 2

      What I find strange is my MATLAB simulation run about 15% faster in Windows 8.1 vs Windows 7 on the same machine. Now Windows 8.1 runs at almost the exact same speed as MATLAB does under Linux. I don't know about all the other stuff MS did to windows but they did manager to make it faster and unlike Linux I get longer battery life under windows and it still hibernates correctly.

      On linux after I installed the intel thermald and p-state stuff according to the directions I found from intel the linux side did get MUCH better battery life than I had been getting before but still worse than windows.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    7. Re:Ah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another feature of Windows would be a community repository for open sourse software but with Microsoft Public License or Microsoft Reciprocal License software and programs!

    8. Re:Ah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It should not be "ain't that bad", it should be just plain "good"!

      You are paying for it friend!

    9. Re:Ah well by hyades1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Fair enough, that's a valid point. But I believe you're the first person I've encountered who seems to love, Love, LOVE Win 8. I know people who tolerate it. I know people who have stripped it off their system and replaced it with 7. I know nobody who feels about it the way you evidently do, though. That's why I thought your comment sounded a lot like a PR blurb from MSoft.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    10. Re:Ah well by hyades1 · · Score: 2

      I'd mod you up if I could.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    11. Re:Ah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used the windows key + typing a few letters to open all my applications on Windows 7 with no issues.

      However, on Windows 8 and using Classic Shell, if I type too fast before the search completes, it just doesn't work. On Windows 7 it seems the "enter" key at least queues it so that it waits until the search is finished before trying to open. So it's very annoying to have to wait after typing before hitting enter.

    12. Re: Ah well by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You only use Mac. So why are you even in this discussion?

    13. Re:Ah well by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      The only trouble is that in 8.0, the search by typing letter doesn't find Windows Update and that is precisely what I use the typing search feature for.
      I found out that there's Windows Update as a control panel item in Windows 7/8, and learned to change the control panel display from "categories" to "icons", so fortunately I can at least hit win+r, enter "control" and then find Windows Update from there.

    14. Re:Ah well by microhax · · Score: 1

      I always felt the same way about 8 but every time I posted my point of view, I too was marked "Troll". It's almost amusing. Seems like people really only want to hate on MS products and never want to see the positive opinions. When I first started with Windows 8 I didn't like it. Then I installed a few 3rd party utilities to give me some more 7-like functionality (Start8 mainly) and I can't say I have any real complaints about it now. It's an OS that lets me do the things I need to get done and has the widest compatibility for my hardware and software. The fact is there will never be a perfect OS. I use Linux for my servers, Windows for my desktop, and a MacBook with 10.7 while on the run. There's at least one thing I dislike about every OS but they still just do their jobs.

    15. Re: Ah well by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You only use Mac. So why are you even in this discussion?

      You obviously haven't a clue.

      In fact, the only one of the top 3 "platforms" I don't deal with on a daily basis is Linux.

      IOW, I deal with several flavors of client and server versions of Windows (7, Server 2003, 2008R2, Server 2012) plus (of course) OS X.

      So, actually, At least during the workweek, I spend MUCH more time in front of Windows than I do OS X.

      And besides, who died and made you Forum Nazi?

    16. Re:Ah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yes, let's bring back twenty year old themes! That's moving forward!

      Since everything since has been substantially uglier, yes, that is progress. As far as I'm concerned Windows 8 is the ugliest version since Windows 2... and that's only because when I used Windows 2, it was running in 16-color mode.

  16. Bring back windows XP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... nothing since adds anything. 7=bloat, 8.0=wtf, 8.1=really?, 9=nfw

    1. Re:Bring back windows XP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides the totally useless alt+tab "order has fuck all to do with sanity", Windows 7 is *vastly* nicer to use, for me.

    2. Re:Bring back windows XP. by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      XP was complete bloat by 2001's standards. Windows 7 was made lighter than Vista, after people complained about Vista the same way people complained about XP.

      The only reason XP doesn't feel bloated right now, is because it's 13 years old and 10 years obsolete -- since it can't do a lot of things OSes are expected to do (not by you obviously). The biggest mistake Microsoft made wasn't Vista's expectation of a decent computer, nor windows 8's oversimplification. It was letting people grow used to XP for way too long.

    3. Re:Bring back windows XP. by xvan · · Score: 1

      Could you list some stuff that mere mortals are able to do with newer OS but not with XP
      (Honest question, I've barely touched 7 and never had the pleasure of using 8. As a Linux user, when WMs went full retard (again), I changed to awesome WM and haven't had to face change since.)

    4. Re:Bring back windows XP. by WuphonsReach · · Score: 5, Informative

      I can give you a few...

      SSDs under WinXP gradually degrade in performance, because XP doesn't support SSD TRIM. On Win7, this is not an issue, so you don't have to wipe / reset the SSD / restore the operating system once a year.

      Graphics performance of video drivers - I gained 20-30% performance switching from XP 32bit to Win7 64bit on the same machine, maybe even doubled performance. This was back when I multi-boxed EVE Online - I went from struggling to run 3 windows (at least one would only get 15-20 FPS), to being able to have 5-6 open (all with 40+ FPS).

      The 32bit limit of 3-something GB of RAM is a bit limiting when Firefox is chewing up 500-800MB, Thunderbird is chewing up another few hundred MB, and a handful of other background tasks chewing up 40-50MB each. Moving to Win7 meant I could put in 8GB of RAM on the box, and make use of it.

      Multi-tasking performance is just better in Win7 when compared to XP. Less hiccups / pauses / other strange slowdowns.

      The window preview as you hover over the tasks in the task bar is addictive. Being able to see thumbnails of each application window makes it easier to pick which window to bring forward (another bonus for multi-taskers).

      A bit more resilient then XP to being infected - not perfect, but a definite step forward.

      We run Linux on the servers, but I'm quite happy running either OS X or Win7 on the desktops. Both get the job done well enough and stay out of the way.

      (Running Win7 on a 2007-era Thinkpad T series, 8GB RAM, pair of SSDs, and only a dual-core Intel CPU.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    5. Re:Bring back windows XP. by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      And XP is officially EOLed as of April 2014. That means end of vendor support. So when that new accounting program comes rolling alone (Quickbooks), you must have Windows 7 or newer.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    6. Re:Bring back windows XP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well - to be fair... The normal standard user just wont see all that stuff you are telling here. They just browse a bit, play some audio/video files, do some mail/chat and play some simple games...

      All that can be done with Windows XP, so they do not see the need for an update...

    7. Re:Bring back windows XP. by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      The window preview as you hover over the tasks in the task bar is addictive. Being able to see thumbnails of each application window makes it easier to pick which window to bring forward (another bonus for multi-taskers).

      You seem like you know what you are talking about. Can you tell me how to disable this in Windows 7? I have somehow removed the thumbnail of the running application window, but a tooltip still appears even if mouse cursor reaches the toolbar accidentally, refusing to go away for a while, blocking my screen.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    8. Re:Bring back windows XP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's "more THAN", you American cretin...

    9. Re:Bring back windows XP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The REAL reason XP was finally phased out? It wasn't bringing in NEW money. Not for Microsoft and not for parasitic vendors such as Intuit. Let's get that straight.

      The real cost? Let's just say "huge"; nobody want's to account for the cost to me of forcing me off existing software which was working just wonderfully; better, in fact, than the "upgrades" and without me having to invest ANY time into reinstall and retraining issues.

      If fact, if not for the "internet always on" paradigm, in spite of the fact that there is no real need for an always on internet connection in most real work on a desktop machine, there was NO good reason Windows XP couldn't have been running just fine in applications where it was already more than sufficient -- producing value 24/7 instead of distractions and headaches -- for likely DECADES to come.

      It is a truism in new product launches that unless the "New And Improved" is something like at least 100% more functional (in real terms; like does it "pay back", within a few years or less, more than enough time and money to make the NAI a smart *investment*) smart money walks on by. But in software we don't seem to get it - not even on Linux. How was Windows 8 EVER going to repay the vast marjority of users for wasting all their time on retraining, reinstalling, broken software, etc? It wasn't. Unlikely Windows 9 will either... nor windows 10.

      I could go on, but most of the truth shakes out if you just "follow the money". These "upgrades" which aren't MASSIVE are mostly time and money out of YOUR life and into the lives of the Masters of the Temple of bloated, broken, questionable, nonCENTSical software "progress".

    10. Re:Bring back windows XP. by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      SSDs under WinXP gradually degrade in performance, because XP doesn't support SSD TRIM.

      SSDs with their own toolbox app handle this problem via scheduled tasks.

      The 32bit limit of 3-something GB of RAM is a bit limiting when Firefox is chewing up 500-800MB, Thunderbird is chewing up another few hundred MB, and a handful of other background tasks chewing up 40-50MB each. Moving to Win7 meant I could put in 8GB of RAM on the box, and make use of it.

      I had 12GB of RAM in my XP box for 5 years (just switched to Win 7 this year). You do know that there was a 64-bit version of XP, right? And, despite what you've heard, I had no problems finding drivers for my hardware. The only reason I moved to Win7 was because I built a new machine and had learned enough about beating down the quirks of Win7 to be able to make it work well with some older apps I have to run.

      The window preview as you hover over the tasks in the task bar is addictive. Being able to see thumbnails of each application window makes it easier to pick which window to bring forward (another bonus for multi-taskers).

      For you, this is important, for others (like me), not so much. First, the title bar text is more than enough for me to distinguish windows from each other. Second, the preview costs memory and seems to pop up even when you don't really need it (like if there is only one window in the taskbar icon stack), which just slows down the UI. Third, I use a multiple desktop system that I have used since Windows NT, so I don't need the extra preview (the multi-desktop manager has its own), and there are also many third-party apps that add this feature to XP. Last, if you disable features like Office's "show documents in taskbar", you don't have nearly as many windows to deal with.

      I also don't need the "desktop peek" feature, because I don't have 30 windows all maximized and can't see my desktop. With 11x3 virtual desktop space, I have 33 different workspaces that can each hold a few windows sized best for interaction, and memorized for later if I choose. They can be jumped to very quickly (right mouse on the window in the workspace), and I can easily move windows between workspaces when I need to.

    11. Re:Bring back windows XP. by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, a XP desktop can be actually fast without needing an SSD.

    12. Re:Bring back windows XP. by nmb3000 · · Score: 1

      You should be able to disable Aero Peek, or you can use a fantastic third party tool to customize how the taskbar behaves.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    13. Re:Bring back windows XP. by bored · · Score: 1

      You said nearly everything I was going to say, except that it is possible to bypass the 4GB _license_ limit in XP32.

  17. What To Expect With Windows 9 by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One word answer: "Disappointment"

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Creepy · · Score: 2

      Microsoft has every other consumer OS hits going back to Windows 97 - ME flop, XP hit (2000 was generally considered a server OS, the follow up to NT), Vista flop, 7 hit, 8 flop, 9... hit?

      I expect they'll fix the desktop experience in 9.

      Oh wait, you said disappointment - yeah, usually that happens too :D

      For me it usually is WHY THE HELL DO YOU NOT HAVE A MODERN FILE SYSTEM!? NTFS is way long in the tooth and barely supports metadata, much less user metadata. I like to tag things so I can find them later.

    2. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft has every other consumer OS hits going back to Windows 97

      I think this probably indicates that they bite off too much in each release. It's actually a common problem when companies try to abandon an incremental development cycle and get a little ambitious.

      barely supports metadata, much less user metadata

      NTFS supports arbitrary metadata "streams", analogous to xattrs on unix. Windows and applications simply don't make use of them very much.

      Also, Microsoft did introduce a new filesystem: ReFS. It is sort-of analogous to zfs or btrfs, but not very well supported in Windows 8 at the moment and not as feature-complete. Still, they seem to be ahead of Apple which is still using HFS.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Aryeh+Goretsky · · Score: 1

      Hello,

      Did you mean Windows 95 or 98? Or perhaps were you thinking of Office 97?

      Regards,

      Aryeh Goretsky

      --
      Dexter is a good dog.
    4. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS also introduced a LVM replacement called Storage Spaces that works with ReFS to function similar to ZFS. It doesn't have any analog to RAID-Z2, but can do RAID1, RAID2, and RAID-Z analogs. It also is fairly flexible, where the volume could be 10 terabytes, even though it might be just sitting on three 2TB drives, so drives can be added without needing to expand the FS. Of course, the pain comes when one runs a process like cypher /w or another item that fills the drive completely.

      Problem is that MS has a lot of cool features in the W8/W8.1 generation, such as deduplication, AVMA (automatic virtual machine activation), better Hyper-V features, very good iSCSI support (both initiator and target), better additions to BitLocker, and so on... but if you want those, you have to buy the server edition. The server edition also has a very good backup program, while most Windows third programs are fairly lackluster... well, unless you want to spend the top dollar for NetBackup or have the cash to slide an Avamar appliance under your laptop.

    5. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      You and Bill Gates agree...

      http://www.zdnet.com/bill-gate...

    6. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      WinFS has been reincarnated as ReFS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R... and is already available on Windows Server 8

      I would bet that you'll see ReFS ship with desktop variants of Windows 9

    7. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

      I don't know about all these new features in windows that you are talking about, but I have a hunch. My hunch is, all these features are already available in the Linux/Unix world and their performance is much better that it would ever be in Windows. Plus Linux/UNIX offer many more advanced features.

    8. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by paulatz · · Score: 2

      Does "Re" in ReFS stand for Reiser?

      --
      this post contain no useful information, no need to mod it down
    9. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't get too cocky... In the "Linux" world you can indeed run zfs, but you have to roll your own since it uses an incompatible license - it came out of Sun and was released with a non-GPL compatible license. btrfs has many of these features, but it has only recently become "production" quality - and even then, not all of the features are stable. MS was slightly ahead of Linux in the filesystem department.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Resilient actually.

    11. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has every other consumer OS hits going back to Windows 97

      I think this probably indicates that they bite off too much in each release. It's actually a common problem when companies try to abandon an incremental development cycle and get a little ambitious.

      barely supports metadata, much less user metadata

      NTFS supports arbitrary metadata "streams", analogous to xattrs on unix. Windows and applications simply don't make use of them very much.

      Also, Microsoft did introduce a new filesystem: ReFS. It is sort-of analogous to zfs or btrfs, but not very well supported in Windows 8 at the moment and not as feature-complete. Still, they seem to be ahead of Apple which is still using HFS.

      I wonder if MS did this to spite Linux. Do you think they did it for spite?

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    12. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the "Linux" world you can indeed run zfs, but you have to roll your own since it uses an incompatible license

      Luckily, if you're using a common distro it's already been rolled for you.

    13. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yes, well, that is today. Prior to spring of 2013 that would have not been an option. Windows Server 2012 was available in fall of 2012. Not exactly an earth shattering lead, but a lead nonetheless.

      Now to be fair, nikkipolya did mention Linux and Unix, and zfs has been available for Solaris for almost 10 years.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    14. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DO tell what other FS let you tag stuff out of the box.

    15. Re: What To Expect With Windows 9 by fuzzy2k · · Score: 1

      they seem to be ahead of Apple which is still using HFS.

      Wouldn't it be nice to set the bar a bit higher? Leapfrog is a kids game, not a business plan.

      --
      --- Say something clever. Pretend it was me. Thanks.
  18. "What to expect" - really? by BringsApples · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone that does freelance IT work knows that this means $$$. Hell I'm still counting the money from WinXP's death. Yehaa!

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    1. Re:"What to expect" - really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brother I hear you. Follow the path to cheddar!

    2. Re:"What to expect" - really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do freelance IT work and claim WinXP has died?

  19. Stick with Win7 by Gothmolly · · Score: 0

    Why upgrade, Windows7 does everything I need.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Stick with Win7 by penix1 · · Score: 1

      Why upgrade, Windows7 does everything I need.

      Good for you. However, you won't be too happy when you get a new machine that doesn't come with anything other than 9. Or when your windows 7 drivers need an update to fix a bug or add a feature and the only available ones are for Windows 9. Or you want that snazzy new program and it's minimum requirements are Windows 9.

      Like it or not, the world moves on. If standing still works for you then more power to you.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    2. Re:Stick with Win7 by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "However, you won't be too happy when you get a new machine that doesn't come with anything other than 9."
      That will not happen for a long time. I can buy lots of brand new business class machines with windows 7 on it right now and Dell will not stop doing it as long as 90% of all the corporations are demanding it.

      Windows 7 will be available on a new machine sold by competent PC makers for a few more years at least.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Stick with Win7 by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft tried it already with 8. REALLY really tried it with 8, removing 7 from everywhere it only could.

      It was a disaster. PC sales crashed. As we discovered, forcing 8 on people did result in marginal increase of sales of 8, and a massive reduction of sales in PCs.

      Finally someone important at microsoft realised that in winning the battle of 8's adoption over 7, they were losing the war of keeping PCs being the primary customer computing platform, and 7 was quickly pushed back into OEM chain. I think that this particular lesson was painful enough for microsoft not to even think of trying it again for at least a few years.

    4. Re:Stick with Win7 by Teresita · · Score: 1

      I can buy lots of brand new business class machines with windows 7 on it right now and Dell will not stop doing it as long as 90% of all the corporations are demanding it.

      And when these 7 boxen come off lease you can scoop 'em up for a song.

    5. Re:Stick with Win7 by Goetterdaemmerung · · Score: 1

      Why upgrade, Windows7 does everything I need.

      Good for you. However, you won't be too happy when you get a new machine that doesn't come with anything other than 9. Or when your windows 7 drivers need an update to fix a bug or add a feature and the only available ones are for Windows 9. Or you want that snazzy new program and it's minimum requirements are Windows 9.

      Like it or not, the world moves on. If standing still works for you then more power to you.

      XP still works for me. There is no downside. Snazzy new features don't improve my efficiency at work.

      I agree, when a computer breaks and we have to get Windows 7 because we are forced to, a painful upgrade period occurs because the software never seems to work on the new OS. There is no advantage except for the newer hardware computation power. Who cares about Windows 9?

    6. Re:Stick with Win7 by powerlord · · Score: 1

      No. They'll just switch to shorter support life cycles so consumers will have fewer choices.

      "Do you want 8 or 9?"
      "I want 7!"
      "I'm sorry, we officially supporting 7 last month. Your choices are 8 or 9."

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    7. Re:Stick with Win7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean:

      "Do you want 8 or 9?"
      "I want 7!"
      "I'm sorry, we officially supporting 7 last month. Your choices are 8 or 9."
      "Then I'd like to look at an iPad"
      "Then you'd have to go to the Apple store two blocks down the street. And expect to stand in line, you're the 83rd person today I send down there".

    8. Re:Stick with Win7 by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      "Okay"

      PC sales crash again.

      P.S. 7 is supported until 2020.

  20. Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've used workspaces extensively since discovering Linux in the early 2000's. I find it rather interesting Microsoft is /finally/ introducing native, proper, workspaces.

    Any time I try to explain it to someone who has never used them, they always ask me "Why would I use/want that?" and then they always jump on the multi-monitor mantra and say "Why not just get X number of screens?"

    I personally have 8 workspaces configured. I use them all. I have my pager configured in 2 rows of 4 grid. My window manager is configured to 'skip' to the corresponding workspace by dragging the mouse pointer to the edge of the screen (with a configurable amount of resistance), so its as close to physical screens as it can get without the cost of buying 8 screens, video cards, plus power costs.

    I've argued this in the past on Slashdot here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of physical screens. Maybe Windows people will finally 'get it' when Win9 comes out.

    1. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't choose between workspaces and physical screens, you just have multiple physical screens so that each workspace can be even larger and more pleasant to use...

      You do eventually run into diminishing returns; but being able to display more than one monitor worth of stuff simultaneously definitely has its uses, and is something that being able to switch between workspaces, be the transition ever so elegant, cannot replace.

    2. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Interesting fact but this isn't new to Windows either. Win2k and maybe even earlier had native multidesktop support. They just didn't ship a default front end for it but they've had a free tool available for years that let you set it up.

    3. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Any time I try to explain it to someone who has never used them, they always ask me "Why would I use/want that?" and then they always jump on the multi-monitor mantra and say "Why not just get X number of screens?"

      You make it sound like multi-monitor and multi workspace are options of which only one can be chosen. Using two monitors and eight workspaces here!

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      I understand what you're saying (I think) but I've always wondered (and this is from a hardware-guy's perspective) wouldn't you rather have one big monitor, than two small monitors? I know there may be a significant price difference, but the whole concept of bigger=better seems to be a nomenclature that itself keeps expanding when it comes to screen size. If you can learn to enjoy the multiple desktop feature that corychristison is talking about, couldn't that be as good?

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    5. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 1

      I am aware of this. But if it is not usable by default, I don't consider it native. Just my opinion, though.

    6. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 1

      Absolutely they are not mutually exclusive.

      Personally I have a 24" (1920x1200) monitor, and do not have any space left on my desk. With that said, I've always believed I can only focus on one screen anyway, so what's the point?

      I have often considered a second, much smaller (6-7 inches diagonal), for notifications/system stats/etc, mounted directly above my monitor. But the hassle of trying to configure that would be more work than its worth.

    7. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 4, Informative

      Its a sysinternals tool, called "Desktops". Apparently it works on XP, as well. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.aspx

      It is very limited, however. You cannot drag windows between virtual screens.

    8. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Aside from price, which makes accepting multiple monitors rather compelling(you can get physically big ones for relatively small amounts of money, because of TVs; but if you want resolution the cost goes up fast and things really start to misbehave if you go high enough that DP MST or the like is required to drive the thing), it mostly comes down to how good your windowing system is at tiling and how well applications that expect 'full screen' can handle playing with others.

      A good window manager makes carving up a single large monitor into chunks suitably sized for your various programs easy and painless. If you are enduring a less obliging one, it can be a fairly ugly business, actually less pleasant than getting some help from multiple physical displays, which are more widely respected even by poorly behaved programs.

      That said, the 'two side by side, giant bezel in the middle' configuration is not my favorite. A larger primary screen, with ancillary screens on one or both sides gives you plenty of room for assorted lesser windows; but also avoids annoying bezels in the center of your field of view.

    9. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I could go either way. I think though as long as it doesn't require a third party tool it's "native" just not "out-of-the-box".
      It is used natively though, just not in a way you may like. When the security warning pops up and the screen dims a bit that's actually a different desktop environment.

    10. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally I have a 24" (1920x1200) monitor, and do not have any space left on my desk. With that said, I've always believed I can only focus on one screen anyway, so what's the point?

      Depends on the use case. I trade stocks and play video games (but I repeat myself) and it's great to have my attention on the main screen (reading Slashdot) and my peripheral vision on the piles of charts on the other two screens. 3x1920x1200. It also makes FPS/RPGs vastly more immersive.

      I have often considered a second, much smaller (6-7 inches diagonal), for notifications/system stats/etc, mounted directly above my monitor. But the hassle of trying to configure that would be more work than its worth.

      When in a single-screen environment, my "solution" was "innovative", scare quotes intended. I stuck a tablet running a web browser onto a charging stand and placed it within line of sight of the main screen. Total kludge, but you know what, it was also pretty effective when all I needed was a few square inches of space that would do nothing except draw my eye to it when something happened.

    11. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by sk999 · · Score: 1

      The nice thing about workspaces is that they work even when you are traveling on a plane Ever tried to set up 8 physical monitors in coach class? Even in first class, you can get complaints.

      I use a 2x3 configuration. After much experimenting, I settled on an edge resistance of zero. Seamless flow from one workspace to the next. Takes a bit of practice. Anyone else trying to use it goes batty.

    12. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You make it sound like multi-monitor and multi workspace are options of which only one can be chosen. Using two monitors and eight workspaces here!

      Oh, you mean like this?

    13. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by NormalVisual · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I understand what you're saying (I think) but I've always wondered (and this is from a hardware-guy's perspective) wouldn't you rather have one big monitor [flickr.com], than two small monitors [wired.com]?

      I actually prefer multiple displays along with virtual desktops, as the bezel doesn't bother me, and it's easier for me to have a dev environment on one screen with documentation/tools on the other sans taskbar, with the virtual desktops being used for stuff like IMs, email, etc.. Maximizing something on the second display fills that display, but leaves the primary untouched. Additionally, there are some folks that prefer to use multiple displays in different orientations, although I'm not one of those. Finally, it's cheaper. :-) Having said that, it's not something I'm dogmatic about. People should use whatever works best for them.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    14. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Zero resistance.

      I also use 2x3 on my laptop. It has a 15.6" screen, 1440x768 resolution.

      It took my wife a while to get used to it, but now any time she uses a computer with Windows (eg. Her parents), it drives her batty not being able to seamlessly switch workspaces.

    15. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      ...I've always wondered (and this is from a hardware-guy's perspective) wouldn't you rather have one big monitor, than two small monitors?

      For some use cases, two separate monitors make sense, and I find that I actually like the conceptual separation they provide. When I'm doing PCB design I can have the schematic open on one monitor and the PCB on the other; it's convenient to just click on Maximize on each window and know that they're both going to equally and maximally fill the available real estate. Ditto for mail client and browser. Also, the total width-to-height ratio is greater than it would be on a single big monitor - that's a double-edged sword, but on thw whole I like it.

      OTOH some programs don't play well with it - VLC doesn't seem to understand what's going on and I need to resize the window on some videos, and ImageMagick is pretty much unusable.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    16. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WinXP had a powertoy for it.

    17. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but I've always wondered (and this is from a hardware-guy's perspective) wouldn't you rather have one big monitor, than two small monitors?

      From an IT manager point of view, it typically always comes down to personal preference / habits first, and that persons normal workflow second.
      Occasionally they even put "physical desk space" at #3 but its always worth taking a look first.

      As for the price, I offer our users two options initially. Either dual monitors of a smaller size, or a single monitor of a larger size.
      At least back when our workstations all had dual vga standard (thank you nvidia!) two 19" cost about the same as a 25"
      That was before widescreen took over, but even during the transition I remember a few months where two 19 or 21" 4:3 LCDs totaled less than a single 21" 19:6

      For the most part an entire department, or at least a sub-department, generally all go with the same option - based on workflow.

      Personally I like one large monitor far and above anything else.
      If I need a second monitor for something dedicated, chances are that just means two separate single-screen computers.

      But sales loves them some super-wide excel files all over the place, and the developers in engineering for the most part sing nothing but prases to dual monitor.
      Granted we have one guy that hates them, and another guy that claims programming isn't even possible with only one display - so your standard bell curve of crazy.

      Until the latest remote desktop update, dual monitors at work just meant every morning after having remoted in from home the previous night resulted in breakage of my desktop icons and window placements.
      It looks like they support dual monitor in rdp now, as long as you have two monitors both at the source and the destination (so I haven't tried it out yet)

      But yea from a hardware guys perspective it's likely only an issue on lower end oem workstations that come with say a vga and dvi connector but both are the same video out port so can't be used at the same time... Oh, that and thunderbolt to dvi adaptors still suck in windows.
      If you are already getting addon graphics cards or they are included, then that typically isn't a problem.

      Even from a purchasing perspective, once costs/availability pushes you to the next LCD model up (and so a larger size) - the previous standard LCDs don't just all disappear.

      In fact the only one detail with the LCDs that does seem to matter (probably more to my OCD self than many of our users, but still) - Dual monitor systems should always have both screens ordered at the same time to assure the exact same front bezels.
      I always order displays in multiples of two, and if they get separated to deploy a single display, it's pair-lcd just becomes a single display lcd forever more.

      Just pulling up prices at the local computer store here, the cheapest wide screen is a 20" for $90.
      Since that is the dual it would be ~$180, which for the same amount will get you one of any branded 27" widescreen for single monitor.
      You can probably close that size gap a bit buy shopping wisely and spending more than 10 seconds like I just did... because at work my main supplier works out to dual 23" plus display port to vga dongle or a single 27" for the same price.

      Most often there isn't a good reason Not to offer the end user whichever setup they feel is most productive to them. Especially so when you can back the purchasing decision by showing identical costs for both.

    18. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you work with Windows and do not have the (free) sysinternals suite you are a moron of the first degree.
      Here get the (free) download http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881
      It has been around for at least ten years - fools.

    19. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NT4 had it with the power toys tool pack, or what later became I think tweakui toolset.

    20. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by pitchpipe · · Score: 2

      I've argued this in the past on Slashdot here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of physical screens.

      Just like I don't 'see' the appeal of a non-physical screen. Get it?

      ,,, I'll just show myself out.

      --
      Look where all this talking got us, baby.
    21. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      I leave documentation open on one screen and work on the other. I can alt-tab between docs and the window I'm working in but I find it far slower. Physical screens let you compare two sets of data as well. I also then have to remember which virtual desktop something is on. With physical monitors I can literally see everything all at once. I can find it from my peripheral vision.

    22. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that conflicts with the very nature of linux doof

    23. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're forgetting the numpties that run EVERY application full screen no matter what the resolution.

      My employer gives us all 30" monitors that run at 2560x1600. ALL my co-workers run every single app they have open in full screen. So you get someone looking at a Word document... Word is full screen and there is more white space taking up space on the left and right side of the document than there is space taken displaying the document they work on. Not a single one of them can work with it in an appropriately sized window.

      So... two smaller monitors makes sense for these people that have a major mental block and are completely unable to use an application unless it's full screen. Then they can have two documents open, one on each screen... the concept of resizing on a single large screen completely baffles them - I know.. I tried to show them... and failed.

    24. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by houghi · · Score: 1

      I use workspaces AND multiple monitors. No, not in Xinerame.
      e.g. when making a webpage, I can work on one monitor and see the result in another.
      I can then still switch on one monitor to some other set of tools and not change the second screen. So why not both?

      This is also the main reason I use XFCE and not KDE/GNOME because if it is possible to configure it, it is darn hard to do and much easier to just use XFCE where it works out of the box. Last time I checked, KDE and GNOME use something similar to Xinerama, which means that when I switch on one monitor, the other changes as well.

      Small downside of how I do it. I can't move a program from one site to another and I need to have two profiles for Firefox, because you can not otherwise lauch Firefox on each screen.

      So I say: do both and leave the choice to the user. I have three monitors and 6 desktop on each.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    25. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Virtual desktops help me focus on one thing at a time. Having multiple monitors would be simply distracting.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    26. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I find it rather interesting Microsoft is /finally/ introducing native, proper, workspaces.

      Apple did it so MS were sure to follow. Pity they didn't do it with Win95.

    27. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Depends on the workflow. Having two separate things open at once is a fairly common thing.

    28. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's more like separate logins. I did look at it at some point, but ended up rejecting it.

      There was a previous attempt that allowed you to move windows between desktops, but that worked by minimizing the windows that were supposed to be on other desktops.

      Hopefully the Windows 9 version fixes the limitations found in either of the previous solutions.

    29. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any time I try to explain it to someone who has never used them, they always ask me "Why would I use/want that?" and then they always jump on the multi-monitor mantra and say "Why not just get X number of screens?"

      Oh, the joys of having friends with more money than they are ever going to find a use for.

      "Why have 12 virtual desktops, when I can just buy 12 monitors and 24 graphics cards (all running SLI of course), and a larger house so I can put all 12 monitors in the same room".

    30. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      It is a matter of taste; but the proliferation of 'widescreen' has really made multiple orientation setups more attractive. In particular, the ubiquitous 1920x1080 is cheap as dirt and nice and wide; but actually throws fewer vertical pixels than a nasty old 1280x1024 17' from about 2001. If you read or write a lot of text, or code with reasonably short lines, taking a cheapo 1920x1080 and rotating it gives you a 1080x1920: this is handy because it's still wider than 1024(so even old and horrible programs/layouts generally won't break, since anything that old and horrible probably expects 768 or 1024 pixel wide screens); but provides more vertical resolution than even substantially more expensive monitors in their native orientation.

      I prefer my 'primary' monitor to be unrotated; but the amount of vertical resolution you can get for the money, without totally sacrificing width, from a rotated secondary monitor is pretty compelling.

    31. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't get your hope up yet.

      They already used all available hotkeys on windows, such as Win+1-9, Win+Q/A/Z/D/X, Ctrl+1-9, Ctrl+F1-F9, etc, etc. There is no space left for virtual desktop. Unless they ship new keyboards with non-standard keys, you'd have to use god-damned mouse for switching!

    32. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      the ubiquitous 1920x1080 is cheap as dirt and nice and wide; but actually throws fewer vertical pixels than a nasty old 1280x1024

      I think your math may be off.

      taking a cheapo 1920x1080 and rotating it gives you a 1080x1920

      Which makes it look terrible. The viewing angles on cheap monitors tend to suck if you aren't looking at it right. Although rotating a monitor that doesn't look terrible is the bee's knees.

      I personally prefer working on widescreen monitors for programming. Once you've written properly descriptive names or you are working in a wordy OO language there is really no such thing as "reasonably short lines" though. I've never understood why people on Slashdot do not like widescreen- your vision is widescreen.

    33. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      People don't seem to get multi-desktop versus multi-screen. Nobody's figured out split desktop yet--I want two monitors with different desktops on each, changeable separately.

      If I were a project manager for Microsoft, I would strongly push to port Gnome 3 onto Windows, folding the changes back into upstream. Gnome 3 on Windows, shipped as a standard option, would eliminate the usability issue between Windows and Linux: nobody would move to Linux after seeing the zoom-out view, application searching, and automatic virtual desktop features of Gnome 3. Windows on Explorer wouldn't be a crippling anchor to the 90s; Microsoft could just provide option for the next-generation Gnome 3 desktop.

      The high productivity provided by Gnome 3's workflow--WinKey pulls up all your current desktop's windows, CTRL+ALT+[ARROW] moves you up and down, type to instantly search installed applications, drag-and-drop windows between desktops--is my major pitch for using Linux over Windows. That plus the Software Center (Pirate, Ubuntu Software Center, etc.) make Linux the top operating system in existence for people who actually want to use a fucking computer to get shit done.

      I just wish Gnome 3's alt-tab swapped between windows, not application contexts (it's terrible, and doesn't swap back when you alt-tab twice); and that they hadn't made scroll wheel swap up and down between desktops, but rather left it as a zoom function on windows in the Activities view. If I want to scroll through desktops, I'll put the mouse over the desktop list and scroll; if I point at a window and scroll up, I want to zoom in. How is this difficult? Scroll wheel is a function of what at which you're pointing.

      It's different when you're trying to argue with Apple, because you can't just download the Apple UI and tweak its source code. But Linux? You can port all those DEs to Windows (except Unity, which is a piece of shit). Marketing, boys.

    34. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dumbass, did you even click the link in the summary?

    35. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 1

      With a large enough resolution widescreen monitor, you can have the windows open side-by-side.

      Just sayin'.. :-)

    36. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by corychristison · · Score: 1

      I also use XFCE. :-)

    37. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

      It looked like Microsoft was going to do really good things with Scalable Fabric, but it hasn't been updated since like 2004. That combined with the outlook live desktop hack was pretty great for work. People keep on hacking virtual desktop managers together, I don't understand why MS has waiting this long catch up.

      --
      X
    38. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a two monitors in landscape orientation, one for the IDE and one for the website I am working on. Then on the third screen that is setup in portrait orientation I usually have either documentation or a work log.

      I thought adding a third monitor sounded crazy at first, but since doing it I have realized it is nice. I think 3 might be my limit.

    39. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by tibit · · Score: 1

      Ada was quite painful before widescreen monitors became the norm...

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    40. Re:Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      I understand what you're saying (I think) but I've always wondered (and this is from a hardware-guy's perspective) wouldn't you rather have one big monitor, than two small monitors? I know there may be a significant price difference, but the whole concept of bigger=better seems to be a nomenclature that itself keeps expanding when it comes to screen size. If you can learn to enjoy the multiple desktop feature that corychristison is talking about, couldn't that be as good?

      I prefer many small monitors over 1 or 2 big ones because it is easier to snap/lock/full screen apps in each screen. There is probably a software solution to carving up a large monitor into grids, but I've never bothered to look for it.

      I do use virtualwin to create 4 virtual desktops in windows 7. But each virtual desktop is for performing a different type of work.

      Like virtual desktop 1 is for development. Monitor 1 - view of my application, Monitor 2 - source code, Monitor 3 - documentation/googling. I never have to alt tab while building an application or web page.

      Virtual desktop 2 is for server stuff. Monitor 1 - performance/status on servers, Monitor 2 - SSH sessions, Monitor 3 - documentation/googling, misc.

    41. Re: Virtual Desktops (Workspaces) by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      Also http://virtuawin.sourceforge.net/

  21. simple answer by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    A: Not much

  22. Metro Apps vs Desktop Apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that metro programs are runnable in re-sizable windows, can someone explain to me the technical difference between a desktop program and a metro program?

    1. Re:Metro Apps vs Desktop Apps? by art123 · · Score: 1

      Totally different APIs. WinRT for metro. Win32, WinForms, and WPF for desktop. DirectX can be used in both metro and desktop apps.

      WinRT has less features because it needs to run in a secure sandbox. WinRT is also more energy efficient due to async nature of most api calls.

      WinRT, at least when using XAML for the ui, is similar to WPF (and Silverlight). Very nice M-V-VM architecture.

      It will be interesting to see how they handle resizing. Devs could always count on min resolution of 1024x640 or 384x768 in split mode (split mode was only supported if res was >= 1366x768). Now these apps that were never designed for odd resolutions will have to deal with it. Maybe they will just look for special metadata that describes resize capabilities and if metadata not present (old 8.0 and 8.1 apps) the app will not be allowed to be resized too small.

  23. my list is not long by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    Must have: Useable start menu, (a button to dump us into the "start screen" was just plain insulting) a useable desktop, and the ability to not run any metro (or whatever it's called) apps whatsoever.

    Important but not a deal killer: Put all the control panel functions back in the control panel. You can keep the charms bar for tablet compatibility, but I'd want some way to turn it off on a desktop. In fact, I would like a way to turn off all hot corners, hot sides, and swiping gestures while on a KVM machine. Registry changes to do this would be fine, as I would intend to do it once and never revert back.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:my list is not long by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      They made a new start menu, for desktop users. Modern-ui apps will show windowed, for desktop users. The charms bar will be gone in desktop installs. No idea about hot corners, but the rest are all things that have been confirmed in the leaks ;P

    2. Re:my list is not long by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've read that. I'm waiting for the punchline, (like, you have to use gestures to log in! C'mon it'll be fun!) but what I've heard so far make me cautiously hopeful. I'm fine with 7 for now, but know I need to upgrade eventually, probably to 9 when it's on SP2 or 3, and when 10 comes out and is obviously a POS. And then, we wait until 11...

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:my list is not long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every single thing that you've listed is in there. Charms are basically deprecated on the desktop and moved to title bar for apps that still need them. The rest is redesigned so that it's actually usable with a mouse and you don't have to hunt things down.

      Except for Metro apps. They will remain (though can be uninstalled, same as Win8). But they run windowed now (resizable etc), so they're not any different from regular desktop apps, except installing/updating through the app store.

      Generally, all defaults on desktop are desktop-sane. It no longer pretends it's a tablet that lost its touchscreen.

      Rumor has it that Satya has personally delivered a massive smackdown to the management team responsible for Win8 fuckup. The user sat numbers were sad indeed.

    4. Re:my list is not long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must have: Useable start menu, (a button to dump us into the "start screen" was just plain insulting) a useable desktop, and the ability to not run any metro (or whatever it's called) apps whatsoever.

      Important but not a deal killer: Put all the control panel functions back in the control panel. You can keep the charms bar for tablet compatibility, but I'd want some way to turn it off on a desktop. In fact, I would like a way to turn off all hot corners, hot sides, and swiping gestures while on a KVM machine. Registry changes to do this would be fine, as I would intend to do it once and never revert back.

      Sounds like you want to try Linux Mint. It does all of that right out of the box. For free. Seriously, try it if you are going to change OS anyway.

    5. Re:my list is not long by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Hot corners are already optional and can be removed. On Win8.1, open Start, type "corner" (no quotes), and open the "Corners and edges" setting option that appears. Turn off the options under "Corner navigation".

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    6. Re:my list is not long by phorm · · Score: 1

      the ability to not run any metro (or whatever it's called) apps whatsoever.

      Here here. Performance-wise, I'm fairly happy with Win8. Installing a start-menu replacement helped kill off the fugly tiles. My biggest headache recently was that some comflict between AMD APU+Win8+AVG made the system unbootable (spinning logo on startup forever). It worked fine with another antivirus though, and has been stable since.

      Now usability. Getting rid of the tiles is great, but every time I have to hit Windows Update it drops me into that f***ing Metro fullscreen POS. No more tray icon or a window I can shuffle off to another monitor.

      Bring back the built-in start menu, but more importantly kill Metro! Possibly, make it optional. It makes 0 sense for a desktop and actually makes the OS less usable.

    7. Re:my list is not long by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Must have: Useable start menu, (a button to dump us into the "start screen" was just plain insulting) a useable desktop, and the ability to not run any metro (or whatever it's called) apps whatsoever.

      Important but not a deal killer: Put all the control panel functions back in the control panel. You can keep the charms bar for tablet compatibility, but I'd want some way to turn it off on a desktop. In fact, I would like a way to turn off all hot corners, hot sides, and swiping gestures while on a KVM machine. Registry changes to do this would be fine, as I would intend to do it once and never revert back.

      Sounds like you want to try Linux Mint. It does all of that right out of the box. For free. Seriously, try it if you are going to change OS anyway.

      You have a point, and Mint is on my list to try. I have an older machine I can use for evaluation.

      Truly, the only reason I keep Windows around is for the Adobe creative suite (which I use daily). The moment Adobe ports Linux, I'm done with Windows.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    8. Re:my list is not long by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Rumor has it that Satya has personally delivered a massive smackdown to the management team responsible for Win8 fuckup. The user sat numbers were sad indeed.

      This gives me hope.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    9. Re:my list is not long by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've read that. I'm waiting for the punchline, (like, you have to use gestures to log in! C'mon it'll be fun!)

      If the next version of Windows requires gestures to log in, I have a few gestures in mind.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
  24. Nothing Useful by darkain · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I evaluate new software primarily based on two areas.

    1) What do I gain with the new software? Currently running Windows 7, what do I get that helps make my life more productive with Windows 9? Thusfar, I see nothing. From Windows 8 to 9, yeah, I can see the improvement, but so far it is simply "improved" to the point of reverting back to what 7 already has.

    2) What do I lose with the new software? From the current leaks, Windows 9 is just as ugly as Windows 8 desktop mode. The Win8/9 UI looks like Windows 3.1. They've switched back to centering title bar text from the previous decade+ of left-align title bar text. They've taken the UI from the clean and modern Aero Glass and turned it into flat colors just like Windows 3.1. The OS as a whole is simply less visually appealing.

    So, the question still remains: WHY SWITCH!?

    1. Re:Nothing Useful by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      For me the motivation to upgrade will be when I get a 4k monitor and want better high DPI support from Win 8/9. Windows 7 isn't bad but 8 not only looks better but it also supports different DPI settings for different monitors.

      I have 7 on my desktop and 8 on my laptop. With Classic Start Menu I don't have any complaints with 8. In fact booting from cold to desktop in 4 seconds flat is very nice for a laptop when I want to quickly look something up.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Point of clarification. In Windows 3.0, they started adding 3D effects to windows. So Windows is more like Windows 2 (or earlier).

    3. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same. It'll sell because it's not Windows 8, and *nothing* is as bad as Windows 8. They could bring back Vista and it would sell better! But compared to Windows 7, I see no real improvements. Sure, you get virtual desktops which are unnecessary for most people. But then again, you also get the whole early 1990's flat look, tile garbage all over the place (including in the start menu) and it'll probably still have some "metro only" screens like when you go ctrl-alt-del to to connect to wifi on Win8.

      Windows 7 was alright out of the box. Windows 8 needs a LOT of tweaks to be even tolerable, including replacing the entire shitty user interface with Classic Start Menu or the like.

    4. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're after a rapid boot couldn't you just have put the laptop on standby? Even with hibernation it'd still be pretty quick, at least better than a full boot. I know Windows 8 does some fancy partial-hibernation on shutdown so bootups are faster overall, but it's not worth the slight speed improvement and overall shit GUI compared to just putting a Win 7 machine to sleep mode.

    5. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get IE12 in Win 9. Win 7 stuck on IE11. So, suck it.
      Typed in Chrome 37,

    6. Re:Nothing Useful by Brulath · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 had a bunch of back-end upgrades that would be incorporated into Windows 9 and that you would be missing by running Windows 7. They probably won't be night and day, but native USB 3.0 support, DirectX12+ (I think Win7 doesn't get it?), file history, and powershell 4, amongst other things, might be useful.

      The shell changes are interesting. The only Metro apps I use are Reader, because it scrolls much more smoothly than Adobe/foxit ever did for me, and Weather, because it's less typing than looking up a website. Having them not take the whole screen will be nice.

    7. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. The one and only reason I've "updated" in the last decade or so was when an old laptop died (update to vista) or was stolen (update to 7).

    8. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because they're going to discontinue support for windows 7?

    9. Re:Nothing Useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is this train of thought that consider Aero to be a "clean" and "modern" interface? Granted, it was a product of the times, but there is nothing desirable about it. It is a gaudy, flashy, distracting user interface that Microsoft was smart to do away with, even while they screwed up the functionality of the Windows UI in 8 and 8.1. I think Windows 7 adherents make the mistake of beatifying the entirety of the operating system due to Windows 8's missteps.

    10. Re:Nothing Useful by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      It sounds like most of your complaints are cosmetics. I have different tastes and one of the first things I did when forced to use Win7 at work was disable Aero. I spent a lot of time beating the UI into submission to look as much like XP as possible. I'm still stuck with a start menu with a stupid scroll bar though because our UAC policies won't let me install something to actually fix that.

    11. Re:Nothing Useful by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      Here's an example of Windows 3.1 for those who are wondering. Similar to Win 8/9/10, notice how it's visually awkward to distinguish between windows: http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/...

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  25. Windows 7 sp2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    9 will be more like 7 than 8 was, so it will be 7sp2.

    1. Re:Windows 7 sp2 by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Is that the new shill angle? Because I suggest you folks rethink your strategy if it is, since it looks even less like 7 with that ridiculous flat look.

    2. Re:Windows 7 sp2 by Teresita · · Score: 1

      9 will be more like 7 than 8 was, so it will be 7sp2.

      Have you seen the screenshots? 9 is just 8.2, but 8 is now a dirty word like Vista, so 9 it is.

    3. Re:Windows 7 sp2 by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Every time you cry "shill" because you disagree with someone, you end up looking like a pathetic child lashing out. Grow up, please. You are embarrassing yourself greatly.

  26. Winning the lottery by msobkow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My Windows 7 laptop does everything I need for Windowsy stuff, so I won't be replacing or upgrading it unless I win the lottery.

    Sadly, my 10+ year old 3.8GHz Pentium-pre-Core2 box is finally dying, so I'm in the midst of shifting my development and personal stuff over to the laptop. I've used Windows for years as a developer so it's not *too* painful, but I'm going to miss Linux. Linux just *works* without getting in my way; I can't say the same for Windows, even on trivial issues as to which widgets get auto-focused when you open them up (who is the brilliant idiot who came up with the idea that the file browser should focus on that damned library panel instead of the list of files?)

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Winning the lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Library folder effectively links to your most commonly accessed files, it makes perfect sense to set that as default.

    2. Re:Winning the lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So run Linux in a VM on your new laptop. It's easy enough.

    3. Re:Winning the lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Lubuntu. I use it on a 2004 era Toshiba Satelite with a 3.4 Pentium 4. Runs surprising well for a potato.

    4. Re:Winning the lottery by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      I have a similar Dell PC with 2GB of RAM I'll send to you if you could make use of it. Works like a champ, and has all those legacy slots and ports.

      Ubuntu 8 LTS preinstalled:)

      Cheers

    5. Re:Winning the lottery by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      I've come full circle on Libraries. Libraries are brilliant. They are an abstracted storage system which separates your metal from your data. At first it was terrifying but now I fully embrace it. Using HDD\Folder\Folder is rediculous. If I want to move all of that folder over to HDD2\ suddenly the whole OS breaks. With libraries I move the library location to my external drive and everything still works because it's an environment variable not a specific path.

      And since the OS knows it as an environment variable it can sync it easily and consistently between workstations and devices. In fact it can even mix and match between data that's stored physically on the drive and just meta data that's a link to cloud data.

    6. Re:Winning the lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not just dual boot the laptop?

    7. Re:Winning the lottery by Brulath · · Score: 1

      They may be brilliant, but Windows 8 (and I assume 9) has hidden them and basically deprecated the idea. They exist, and work, but they aren't made visible in the file browser by default.

    8. Re:Winning the lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems like it might be easier for you to get an older system and install Linux again. Keep your Win7 laptop and replace your development Linux system. As you well know (pentium eh? :-) ) you can get a very reasonably specced system for very low cost and get your *nix fix back up and running. I am not a Windows hater (I actually like all OS's, they all serve a purpose), but if your tools and knowledge is in Linux, why change?

    9. Re:Winning the lottery by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      They are very clumsily introduced but except for my NASs I almost never actually browse file paths anymore for my own files.

      I tried writing a Windows Store application recently and despised the file management experience at the time. Now I'm writing a regular desktop app and am missing the sandboxed storage system that I so loathed.

      Another nice side-effect of the library system is that you can use the same file system for both Phone and Desktop. OSX and IOS have completely different file structures. Which makes porting harder.

      What Microsoft needs to do though is start piling on features and demonstrating the advantages of a 'virtual' folder structure. It was a shame that they deprecated the more exotic and powerful virtual folders.

    10. Re:Winning the lottery by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I would just start checking dumpsters if your goal is to get an older computer to run Linux and a P4 is fine. Early LGA775 stuff (which is what a 3.8Ghz P4 would be) is common, and even if the computer doesn't run you could probably harvest it for parts and fix yours up.

  27. Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's your litmus test on Windows 9?

    I will buy it in a heartbeat, as long as it isn't made by Microsoft.

  28. Too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a career MS guy an .Net Dev, now in IT management. They failed the litmus test with Win8 and Server 2012... I am in the middle of moving everything to Linux. Had it on my laptop for almost a year now, about to do a rebuild on the home PC. I will keep a Win7 VirtualBox for the few times I need compatibility (Dymo label printer, SQL Server Manager) but that's it.

    See ya MS. I can wait to laugh at Windows 10 Minecraft edition.

  29. Ugh Metro. by enter+to+exit · · Score: 2

    Metro Apps aren't particularly good or useful. They haven't seen mass usage by the Market or Developers, why keep it around on the desktop? It's a design clearly meant for touch interfaces. The design insist on hiding things in a submenu of a hidden side-menu - all that's visibly left is padding.

    There might have been a reason for it a couple of years ago, when the world thought all laptops were going to have a touch screen but that's clearly not going to happen. The use cases are thin - and they're just plain uncomfortable to use. What the world really needed was better trackpads.

    MS should remove Metro from the desktop and license WP8.1 for tablets.

    1. Re:Ugh Metro. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see, Microsoft is insanely jealous of Apple's walled garden and the 'app ecosystem'. This is precisely why it tried to leverage upon the Windows desktop users to grow its mobile/touch-centric market share. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not, you gonna have Metro in your Windows.

      There's also the silly notion that Windows desktop users, if sufficiently exposed to the Metro stuff, would be more inclined to go out and purchase Windows phones and tablets. That hadn't happened with Windows 8, doubt it will happen with Windows 9.

      The truth is that most people are staying away from the Microsoft ecosystem e.g. Bing, Internet Explorer etc. There are better non-Microsoft alternatives. Most people can easily get by a day without Microsoft.

    2. Re:Ugh Metro. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, if WinRT apps could be run windowed on the desktop it wold be a huge improvement. The main benefit of writing for WinRT is the ability to use the Windows app store to distribute the software. No big deal for bigger players, but for the independent developer who would like a simple way to market his programs at a reasonable cost (to the customer and developer alike) it can be a huge boon. Remains to be seen if Microsoft can get their app store off the ground, but personally I hope they do as it would help expose a lot of developer to a huge market.

  30. Windows by Nkwe · · Score: 1

    Windows needs to have windows. With "windows" being rectangular application client areas on the screen, ideally resizable with UI elements common across the system for closing, moving, and resizing.

    Hierarchical start menu.

  31. Ugh by TrippTDF · · Score: 1

    I've JUST started using 8.1 for a project at work, and I'm constantly blown away at how much of a compromise the Metro Interface is. The defaults make it hard to find the things I'm used to, like the control panel, while the new interfaces are lacking in the features I need. Getting to basic features now takes more time than in WIn7. There are no advantages to the interface, and big detractions.

    Just as companies held onto WinXP for a LONG time, I think they will do the same with Win7- there's just no huge incentive to upgrade. Home users are already turning towards iOS. MS has a hard road ahead of themselves if they want to regain what they once had.

    1. Re:Ugh by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you're stuck with 8.1, here's a quick fix. Open a file browser, and click the Control Panel icon on the ribbon bar.

      In Control Panel, click Taskbar and Navigation.

      In the dialog, click on the second tab, the one labeled Navigation. Here you can permanently make the desktop, and not the stupid start full-screen Metro UI menu, your default. Just click on "When I sign in or close all apps on a screen, go to the desktop instead of Start." You can also disable the charms, etc.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fun tip, right click on the start menu, you basically get all the things you normally use the start menu for. This also works in regular Windows 8 and Server 2012 although you have to hover over the lower left for the start menu to display.

    3. Re:Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks, but I still keep Windows 7 if you don't mind...
      This just works without jumping through hoops...

    4. Re:Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All that does is take you to the desktop, which is unusable because the start "button" takes you right back to that stupid full-screen menu.

    5. Re:Ugh by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Another one:
      You can launch he Control Panel (on the desktop) from the new menu that pops up when you hit Crtl+X or right-click the Start button.

      Once you have the Control Panel open (on the desktop), right-click its Taskbar icon and select "Pin to Taskbar".
      Now you can launch the Control Panel with one click, or right-click it to launch directly to any of the commonly-used panels, all guaranteed to open on the desktop.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    6. Re:Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That only appears to improve things for approximately the 15 seconds it takes from the desktop showing until the system becomes usable.

      Because nobody buys a computer just to look at the pretty desktop. Computers are bought to run software, and to run software, it first need to be started. So I click the start button...

      Now, exactly how much time did you save me, by booting directly to desktop before I click start?

      (ok, I use ctrl-esc, rather than clicking start (the keys of death being disabled through regedit), and have my shortcuts arranged so that I can get to the 55 (by todays count) most used with a few keypresses, without even waiting for Windows to paint the start menu).

    7. Re:Ugh by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      So ignore the "windows start" icon. Put shortcuts to your programs on the desktop or the task bar. If you want, you can even go full-on Window 3.0 by creating folders to hold each group of applications (work, games, utilities, system, etc) and giving each folder a unique icon.

      We're heading back that way anyways, so might as well embrace it :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    8. Re:Ugh by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I don't ever click on start any more. I have a desktop folder for google (for all their stuff), one for the junk that came with the computer, shortcuts to the gimp, libreoffice, eclipse, android development docs, and a few others, and that's all I need. In the taskbar there's a few browser icons, the screen magnifier icon (bad retinas), the file browser, libreoffice, firefox and chrome, eclipse, a command prompt and a video editor.

      YYMV, but for me this is the ideal setup on this laptop.

      The laptop next to it is running LXDE on Fedora 20. Conventional menu system, but I'll probably go with the same shortcuts setup on it as well when I get the time and the inclination to simplify things a bit.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  32. If it fixes some of the UI problems... by ndykman · · Score: 1

    I don't mind the start screen too much, but a proper start menu is a good start, and bringing Metro apps to the desktop is a start. The library for metro application actually has a long of good ideas in it, so expanding it beyond touch applications is a good idea.

    The toughest part is that Windows 8/8.1 came with some really noticeable kernel and userland performance improvements. The switching between metro and the desktop is pretty smooth on all the hardware I've used. If they get back the power user desktop functionality, it's a good start back.

  33. Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You put your grubby mits on my nice clean monitor and you're pulling back a bloody stump.
    Are you fucking people blind? Smears and fingerprints drive me nuts!

    1. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by penix1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hear ya! I have an HP Envy M7 laptop that has a touchscreen and I never use the touchscreen for that reason. To make it worse, the screen (which is a very good LED HD display) has a high gloss panel that shows the prints extremely well. Why in the world HP chose to put a glossy screen as a touchscreen is beyond me. Touchscreens should have a matte finish to try and hide the print marks as much as possible.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    2. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could, I dunno.... maybe clean it once in a while?

    3. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by u38cg · · Score: 0

      Have you considered growing the hell up?

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    4. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Pretty much all capacitive touchscreens are glossy.

    5. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by penix1 · · Score: 1

      Ummm... No. It isn't a case of being gooped up. It is a case of a single print is noticeable on this glossy screen. I am doing the solution to the problem which is not to use the touch features.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    6. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by penix1 · · Score: 2

      The computer I had before the M7 was HP TX-2. It too had a touchscreen but had a matte finish to it. It died due to other design flaws (poor airflow caused overheating) but the touchscreen was the thing that drew me to it.

      In the case of the M7 its other features outweigh the glossy touchscreen. I just don't use the touch features on it. Besides, as I said, it isn't a true tablet but a big laptop. So a touchscreen with multigesture capabilities seems pretty useless on it.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    7. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Because fuck common sense, that's why! Seems to be the way of things. I'm not sure if it's the engineers, or their pointy-haired bosses, or some degree of both. But it never ceases to amaze me how mfgs can manage to make such complicated, intricate things, and then ruin it by screwing up the most basic, common sense elements. It's not seeing the forest for the trees. Or maybe they found the glossy screens a lot cheaper than matte at wholesale, but it's still a bad decision.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    8. Re:Touchscreens don't belong on real computers. by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      You put your grubby mits on my nice clean monitor and you're pulling back a bloody stump.
      Are you fucking people blind? Smears and fingerprints drive me nuts!

      ... where did you source your monitor, Umbrella or Weyland-Utani or something?

  34. So what's Metro? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

    Metro apps running in resizable windows on the desktop.

    So, desktop apps. What's the difference now?

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:So what's Metro? by gigaherz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Modern UI apps use the WinRT libraries to draw hardware-accelerated GUIs, using a dialect of the XAML language already present in the WPF and Silverlight libs. Standard desktop apps use the old win32 windowing system so they miss that hardware-acceleration -- unless they are made in .NET with WPF or Silverlight, in which case they will draw using Direct3D9 even in XP.

    2. Re:So what's Metro? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metro apps running in resizable windows on the desktop.

      So, desktop apps. What's the difference now?

      They don't have to publicly admit they were wrong or are changing their mind. It's like government bureaucracy that way.

    3. Re:So what's Metro? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess they still have the hideous Fisher Price UI; bright colors, huge text and buttons scattered randomly around the window. And no visual cue, what text is a button and what not. And secret buttons hidden into magical places, you just need to scan the window with mouse pointer, one can never know what there might be. It is just like playing a adventure game in the 90's.

    4. Re:So what's Metro? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, Metro/Modern apps are the bastard stepchildren of Silverlight.

    5. Re:So what's Metro? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Distributing through the Microsoft store. If you develop something good enough that people may pay a few bucks for it, you will now have an easy way to distribute and collect. I don't understand why there's not more emphasis on this. As a developer who likes to come up with small projects on the side and would love to see if any of them could make a little money for the kids college fund, this is what I'm interested in.

    6. Re:So what's Metro? by bored · · Score: 1

      Standard desktop apps were accelerated on OS's that predate windows vista. In fact GDI was hardware accelerated all they way back to the window 3.0 days.

      This is actually one of the reasons that older windows releases often feel snappier, since probably >50% of windows applications are using GDI or a toolkit that uses GDI.

    7. Re:So what's Metro? by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      Yes. WinRT is where COM meets Silverlight. It's a .NET-like API based on something that looks quite a lot like COM, but isn't exactly COM (IIRC), and uses a GUI toolkit based around the XAML language, like Silverlight. And like Silverlight, applications run in a walled garden, unlike proper WPF programs which also use the XAML language. Note that XAML has different dialects, and you can't do exactly the same in them. Sadly.

    8. Re:So what's Metro? by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      The only hardware-accelerated operations of the GDI are color filling, blitting, alpha-blending, and stretching (with or without alpha). Everything related to drawing shapes (polygons, curves, ...), text, and any UI operation using alternate merging operators (such as XOR, anything but copy and blend), is done in the CPU. It is still partially hardware-accelerated since Windows 7 and up support drawing directly into GPU memory, where Vista had to synchronize the RAM copy with the VRAM copy.

      If anything feels snappier in older OSes, it would be because before XP, Microsoft still supported old hardware blitters, such as what was used by DirectDraw. Support for hardware blitting was lost with the switch away from the Win9X architecture and embracing NT. I may be remembering wrong on this, but I believe XP was missing the faster blitting, but didn't support the same level of hardware-acceleration as newer versions of Windows, so in theory, it should have been the least snappy of all...

      As to the % of applications using GDI, I'd make it more like >95%, and I'm being conservative. The only application I know for certain uses Direct2D or Direct3D for the interface drawing would be Visual Studio 2010 or newer. And XUL-based applications such as Firefox, where d2d/d3d is supported and available. As far as I know even Java applications which custom-draw the GUI end up doing so with GDI functions.

    9. Re:So what's Metro? by bored · · Score: 1

      ? Are you trying to tell me that GDI wasn't directly accelerated in pre vista, non win9x OSs?

      Because I believe you to be strongly mistaken. From the windows 2000 XDDM reference, GDI functions Implemented by printer and display drivers:

      http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...

      You will notice that everything from font rendering to curve drawing, path filling (yes with xor), you name it _CAN_ be implemented although only a small subset is required. _BUT_, I would say that most were implemented by the better hardware manufactures for the common video resolutions.

      You will also notice that the documentation has been updated and says "The functions documented in this section are implemented by printer drivers and by drivers in the Windows 2000 display driver model, but they are not implemented by drivers in the Windows Vista display driver model." This is also directly noticeable in GDI benchmarks between the two OS's (especially when run on slower CPU machines, or while monitoring CPU usage). There are also a fair number of youtube ( for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?...) videos of people showing things like the scrolling speeds in explorer on XP vs vista. 7 improved the situation slightly, but as of a few years ago the benchmarks I remember seeing were still strongly tilted in XP's favor if one monitors CPU usage during the benchmark.

    10. Re:So what's Metro? by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      In that case I was remembering wrong. I was under the impression XP didn't accelerate GDI drawing, but I guess I was mistaken.

  35. Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by LaughingRadish · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Well, Unix systems had virtual desktops for around 20 years now. I wonder what other old tech they've put into it and crowing about inventing it.

    1. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by Osgeld · · Score: 4, Informative

      yea I always found it funny that *nix systems had as many desktops as I wanted, but nothing worth running on them, windows had all the software I wanted to run, but constantly ran out of space (not counting desktops.exe)

    2. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by ruir · · Score: 1

      Pity that I ran *nix at work and at home, and got all the software I want. Ever heard of google?

    3. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by art123 · · Score: 1

      I remember using virtual desktops on Windows 2000 so that is 14 years ago. Might have been present in NT 3.1/3.5/4.0 but I'm not positive.

      Windows API has had notion of multiple desktops per station since at least Windows 2000.

      See references here:

      http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms682573(v=vs.85).aspx

      http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms687096(v=vs.85).aspx

    4. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yea if he wants half broken junk written by a child

    5. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtual desktops have been around for both Windows and Unix for well over 20 years. I used a virtual desktop app for Windows 3.1 (or maybe 3.0) for a while, and then tried the Windows Power Toy one, but never really found a good use for it. I never found much use for them on Unix, either.

      I suspect that the reason Windows users don't use VDMs is simply that they don't need them. Perhaps VDMs are just a hack to make up for the fact that other window managers make it so hard to access the window you want. I'm sure that if there were more demand for virtual desktops, MS would include the feature, or you would be familiar with a popular one.

      dom

    6. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Google is pretty sweet but some people use their computers for other stuff too.

    7. Re:Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by phorm · · Score: 1

      Well, there's that one desktop for GIMP which previously had only floating windows with no MDI-parent-container interface.

  36. Already? by Goetterdaemmerung · · Score: 1

    What about industrial businesses? My company is just finally minimizing XP to only a handful of lab computers and ones necessary for legacy support such as our single remaining Windows 2k system. We are struggling to get one more system moved to Windows 7 (under the guise of a faster computer and therefore less time waiting on the computations) and the application just doesn't work on that OS yet. The vendor is working with us to find a solution, but it may take several months (if ever) because they licensed the software from someone else.

    The computer is a tool to do RF measurements and calculations and prepare presentations. I just got my first VNA with no floppy drive and more than one USB port! That is a big event.

  37. When I look around this room... by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

    I see nothing but potential. You have potential, and you have potential... Oh boy.

  38. Metro Apps vs Desktop Apps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You get to buy metro apps from the Microsoft Store, so they can track everything you do!

  39. If history taught us anything... by w1z7ard · · Score: 1

    Windows 9 will be the next the Windows 7, if you believe in markov models..

    Windows 98: Good
    Windows ME: Sucked
    Windows XP: Good
    Windows Vista: Sucked
    Windows 7 : Good
    Windows 8: Sucked
    Windows 9: GOOD

    --

    "Recursive bipartite matching"- try it!

    1. Re:If history taught us anything... by Teresita · · Score: 1

      If 9 is just 7 with a requirement to have a Microsoft account to activate it and update it, then why will it be GOOD?

    2. Re:If history taught us anything... by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

      Windows 98: Ok; not that exciting

      Windows 98 SE: Good

      Windows 2000: Good

      Windows ME: Sucked

      Windows XP: Meh.

      Windows XP SP1: Ok

      Windows XP SP2: Now we're talking.

      Windows Vista: Sucked

      Windows 7 : Good

      Windows 8: Sucked

      Windows 9: ???

    3. Re:If history taught us anything... by w1z7ard · · Score: 1

      Windows 9: ???

      Well, what's your prediction?

      --

      "Recursive bipartite matching"- try it!

    4. Re:If history taught us anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, why do we need a Microsoft account to activate and update an OS?

      Microsoft, I refuse to be another one of your 'hey we just got another Microsoft account signup' statistic.

  40. More Users Moving To Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Title says it all.

  41. W9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It will be Windows greatest spyware ever!

  42. Cortana??? by istartedi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Holy crap. First I've heard of Cortana. Googled it.. Is that for real??? It looks like Seven of Nine got fucked by Bob and this is the offspring. I can already see the protests from middle America. "Electronic boobies from Satan are sending us to Hell". How could anybody think that's a good idea?

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Cortana??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Since your Google-Fu sucks so bad you'd rather rant than add "Windows 9" to the front of your search query, here's some clarification:

      Cortana is a digital assistant; it's Microsoft's equivalent to Apple's Siri or Google's Google Now. The main difference is that it'll be integrated into Windows 9 and not just Windows Phones, so it'll be part of the desktop experience out of the box (if the user wants to use it of course). Originally it was named Cortana after the AI in the Halo games, but was only there as a placeholder name during development. Apparently the name was so popular with fans that it was decided to be the official release name of the product, and they even got the voice actor who plays the AI in the games to act as the voice actor for the product.

      Now, anything else you wish to rant about? Or are you going to act reasonably this time?

    2. Re:Cortana??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what they should have done to Microsoft Bob in the first place. I can envision a whole different outcome.

    3. Re:Cortana??? by istartedi · · Score: 1

      Parent is a test of the humor AI in Windows 9.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    4. Re:Cortana??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From Microsoft, it must be the "Blue Screen of Boobies..." :)

    5. Re:Cortana??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cortana in a Windows context is represented by two concentric circles, not using the Halo character.

      Two two are voiced by the same person though.

    6. Re:Cortana??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent is a test of the humor AI in Windows 9.

      Either that or Parent is simply frustrated how you made a post that's clearly baiting for a high moderation since it's a bash on Microsoft (easy to do on Slashdot) despite it showing to anyone else that you didn't bother to Google further than you did.

      Ignorance and laziness shouldn't be rewarded, but it does here if it's against Microsoft or Windows, no matter how misguided it is.

    7. Re:Cortana??? by istartedi · · Score: 2

      Slashdot is a game of politics and speed. It's speed-writing. Speed-editorializing. Screw-ups happen. It doesn't always play in my favor. Check out my recent history. I totally cratered doing that kind of thing with Apple. It's a game. It's entertainment. Sometimes it exceeds that, like that bit of poetry I wrote about getting a fix of freedom. Mostly though, like I said, it's speed-writing and sometimes you tag the wall.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    8. Re:Cortana??? by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Mercifully, the non-Halo version is just personified as a small blue circle.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    9. Re:Cortana??? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Microsoft Boob?

      --
      Eat the rich.
    10. Re:Cortana??? by daveoj · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say I'm a huge gaming fan, but I've played Halo. Wasn't the flaw with Cortana that she/it would degrade over time and eventually go mad? If so, good choice Microsoft. Good choice.

  43. A turd is a turd by ruir · · Score: 0

    No matter 8 or 9 comes after. In related news, I changed the name of my car from Fiat to Ferrari, but I am afraid it is still slow. The name change did not work.

    1. Re:A turd is a turd by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Remember; if you can't polish a turd, roll it in glitter.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:A turd is a turd by Ogi_UnixNut · · Score: 1

      You just need to buy the right FIAT :)

  44. A few things... by Entropius · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What's your litmus test on Windows 9?

    I want an OS that:

    1) Doesn't attempt to hide the workings of my computer from me -- in particular, don't hide the way that paths and directories really work. (As a bonus: remove the spaces from system directories, dammit, because I get real tired of escaping them when I access my NTFS partition from a real OS.)

    2) When something goes wrong tell me what the fuck it was. "The internet connection has limited connectivity" doesn't tell me a damn thing. "DHCP timeout" tells me something. Include both messages, by all means, for the benefit of Grandma -- but Grandma likely can't fix her internet connection on her own anyway.

    3) Don't be patronizing. Copying .mp3's to a phone shouldn't give a "Your phone might not be able to play this file, copy anyway?" message, and there are a thousand things like that in Windows.

    4) Get rid of file locking, or at least allow an override. I can decide whether a file is sufficiently "in use" that I shouldn't delete it.

    5) Don't attempt to push other MS products (cloud services, "stores", and the like) on me, and don't keep spewing Windows Media Player etc. icons around after I delete them once.

     

    1. Re:A few things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're never going to get this with Winblows.

    2. Re:A few things... by Entropius · · Score: 1

      No -- and, thus, I am not going to like Windows 9. I will hold my nose and use it for a few programs, but Microsoft's agenda is fundamentally incompatible with making the sort of OS I want to use.

    3. Re:A few things... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      1) Doesn't attempt to hide the workings of my computer from me -- in particular, don't hide the way that paths and directories really work. (As a bonus: remove the spaces from system directories, dammit, because I get real tired of escaping them when I access my NTFS partition from a real OS.)

      1) File Systems already hide the inner workings of how files and folders are stored. Also having a very linear folder structure where data is stored in specific places is extremely outdated and limiting. Imagine you want a folder of data but you want some of it fast and on an SSD but some of it can be slow. Also you often want data in more than one place this notion that Data should be in one folder which is in another folder runs counter to how people actually interact with data. Data should be like a database, "I want all of the files that are tagged "John Brown Project" and were created in January 2013 that are .doc files.

      3) Don't be patronizing but be helpful. If your tablet doesn't play a ProRes file, offer to transcode it automatically on-copy as an option.

      4) Agreed.

      5) Stores are a much better way to deploy software. When I install a new PC I now click "Re-Install" to all of my metro apps and then have to go hunting through the internet for everything else I use on the desktop. I also then inevitably end up with 20 updater apps each sucking up power. I also lose my settings in between computers and have to spend another couple hours configuring things to the way I like them. Or alternately if it's like Chrome I have to log-in to my google account to get my chrome settings. And then I have to log into EA Games to get my origin settings. And then I have to log into steam to get my steam settings. I would much rather have a single account which links all of them.

    4. Re:A few things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of "don't be patronizing", Grandma CAN fix her own internet connections, thank you. I liked 2000, miss XP (the HD crashed, and I had to replace it.unfortunately I didn't have a copy of XP to reload), and am now running two flavors of Linux on two different machines. Don't dis Grandma!

    5. Re:A few things... by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Good call -- I was using "grandma" as a proxy for "people who aren't that computer-savvy", but I imagine my mother who's in her 60's runs Lubuntu just fine :)

    6. Re:A few things... by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      1. Really? I want the exact opposite of that. I don't give a crap what's going on under the hood or what the filesystem is doing. Pull a blanket over it, I don't want to see it.

      2. OK

      3. If they allow it you'll get people here posting "Windows is so dumb, it let me copy an mp3 to my phone that it couldn't play!"

      4. See #3.

      5. OK

    7. Re:A few things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't help resolve problems 1, 2, 4 or 5, but in response to #3 (file locking), there's a utility called WhoLockMe that can identify the culprit of that locking, and force a release. It even works on whole drives, so you can eject your thumbdrives without worrying about delayed/incomplete writes.

    8. Re:A few things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want MS DOS 4.01?

  45. A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by GreatDrok · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find it funny that MS is now the only major OS vendor that isn't running on a UNIX base. Seems like an uphill struggle as the world passes them by. They should do an Apple and virtualise the old Windows code in a classic environment and switch to a UNIX base. Or just stop trying to make operating systems altogether and focus on software.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    1. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 2

      I've long stated that the worst thing the US DoJ ever did to Microsoft - was failing to force them to break apart into separate companies.

      Operating systems should have gone one way (at which point, I suspect that modern versions of Windows would be posix-based, probably on BSD). The application stack should have gone another way (MSOffice running on just about everything, instead of being limited in order to sell Microsoft Phones). The hardware stuff into a 3rd company.

      Instead of being separate companies and competing - now they are all bound together, fighting for their little fiefdoms tooth and nail, and slowly sinking into obscurity.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    2. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by kamapuaa · · Score: 0

      Windows is 90%+ of the desktop market, 90% of the office suite market. I don't think separate companies be better at developing Windows Phone. Basically, your idea is wrong and you should feel bad.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    3. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by art123 · · Score: 1

      This might have been a decent plan 10 years ago but now they made the OS core decent enough (and secure enough) that replacing the core is not really necessary.

      "uphill struggle as the world passes them by" might just be a slight overstatement of MS problems. MS says they have 75% market share for x86 servers (I've no idea if that is a legit statistic). Macs are barely a blip in desktop/laptop market share. Win 8 and Win 8.1, which according to comments in posts like this is the worst OS since Win ME, each has greater market share than all versions of Mac OS combined.

      They are obviously very weak on mobile (phone and tablet) but traditional desktops and servers are not being seriously threatened.

    4. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just inject their code into Linux until it becomes indistinguishable from Windows. Systemd is Service Manager + Event Log. Gnome3 is the same tablet environment MIcrosoft eventually pushed on their customers.... Apple was the only one who avoided putting a tablet interface on their desktop.

    5. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by GreatDrok · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "MS says they have 75% market share for x86 servers (I've no idea if that is a legit statistic). Macs are barely a blip in desktop/laptop market share. Win 8 and Win 8.1, which according to comments in posts like this is the worst OS since Win ME, each has greater market share than all versions of Mac OS combined."

      I can believe that MS has 75% market share for x86 servers simply because you can replace a whole host of Windows servers with a single Linux box - I know, I've done it multiple times. When it takes several machines to do what a single *nix box can do then sure, you're going to get high market share but that doesn't necessarily mean you're doing a good job. This is similar to their claims for IIS when it is just hosting parked domains.

      MS has a bigger problem than that though because they're failing to break out of the jail of desktop in any serious way. Xbox cost a fortune and while the 360 did OK, the One is struggling badly compared with the PS4. The Windows phones are a joke, as are their tablets. The desktop may not be going anywhere soon but people have so widely embraced other technologies like Android and iOS that the desktop has little leverage any more. They simply can't use it to control the world and stop people leaving. Windows 8 was their attempt and it is an abject failure. 9 may be a decent version of Windows but really they've got no growth left in them. MS needs to get away from the idea of owning the platform and focus on developing software because they don't have the leverage to succeed the way they did back in the 90's and 00's. The sad fact is, the software they make which isn't supported by their OS isn't really all that good. Can they write good software without the tie in to the OS? I don't know but the signs aren't good.

      The funny thing is I remember reading back in '97 that the whole world would ditch UNIX and switch to NT over the following few years. Without Linux, maybe that would have happened but now the spawn of Linus has really spoiled their day, especially Android despite their bogus patent claims. I agree with the other poster, if they had been broken up back in 2000 I suspect the world would have seen a lot more innovation and maybe Apple wouldn't have had the chance to grab the lion's share of the profit and overtake MS in the value stakes.

      --
      "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    6. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

      Ah comeon now, who wants a monoculture?

      All you need is one jeff goldbloom and your fucking hosed!

      --
      -
    7. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Especially since they actually had a decent *nix back in the day. If they'd based things on that instead of a bastard grandchild of CP/M and VMS after thalidomide then we'd have a lot less to complain about.

    8. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I can believe that MS has 75% market share for x86 servers simply because you can replace a whole host of Windows servers with a single Linux box

      Also each MS virtual machine is another server while in some cases even a multi-rack linux cluster is considered as one.

    9. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by terjeber · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I find it funny that MS is now the only major OS vendor that isn't running on a UNIX base. Seems like an uphill struggle as the world passes them by.

      This is one of those religious things I find quite funny. For the record, I have used Linux since 0.97 and Slackware. I grew up on SunOS and thought that Sun moving the System V with Solaris was a tragedy. I even once ran a home-written BBS (you wouldn't know) on a dual-floppy x86 machine running Minix. I know Unix. Standard Unix Operating system architecture is an archaic, abhorrent monstrosity that we should have left behind computer-eons ago. The Linux OS architecture is bad at its core level, and it isn't really fixable. The Windows NT core is a much better architecture, but Microsoft has made some serious mistakes on the user end.

      Oh, and let's not forget X. It was a reasonable idea back when we had big-ass servers running X clients talking to "cheap" X terminals with X servers on them (yeah, X terminology is kinda backwards). I theory. In practice it became a pig. A monster pig. Sure, you can smear any kind of lipstick on the X pig, whether that lipstick is called KDE or GNOME, but it is still just a monster pig smeared with (what is now monster) lipstick. Leave it to the OS community to take what amounts to lipstick and make it a huge unwieldy monster in it self!

      If you want to see Unix-like operating systems with a decent architecture, look at Minix 3 and QNX. The concept "Unix base" is not a good thing (TM) per se. Quite the opposite. Monolithic monstrosities are never a good thing. Think about it, the entire core of Minix 3 has plenty of room to run inside the L1 cache of your CPU.

    10. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I find it funny that MS is now the only major OS vendor that isn't running on a UNIX base.

      You find it funny that a company which has invested decades of work into an OS and kernel doesn't just up and dump what they have in favour of having to derive and modify other people's work in ways that may or may not be compatible with the systems they have? You find it funny that a company that in the PC realm has far more market share than any Unix based system wouldn't just stop work and switch to Unix?

      Seems like an uphill struggle as the world passes them by.

      What part of their world is an uphill struggle which would be fixed by switching to Unix? Windows is a very solid system. Windows 8 even has some fantastic features under the hood. Most people hate the interface and the user interaction, neither of which would be solved by some magical Unix. What part of vitalising the garbage and migrating the garbage to some other system would make their work any less of an uphill struggle?

      They should do an Apple and virtualise the old Windows code in a classic environment and switch to a UNIX base. Or just stop trying to make operating systems altogether and focus on software.

      You sound like CEO material. I suggest you put this on your resume. "Blindly copying the worlds largest company because .... errr ... just because" is a critical skill and likely to score you one hell of a golden parachute.

    11. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re:A non-UNIX OS in a UNIX world? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I wish Microsoft wasn't the only one.

      Part of the reason geeks love *ix is because right now the alternative is Windows, and *ix matured rather better than the odd combination of technologies (an API and application model with its roots in Windows 1.0 coupled with a nice-ish kernel with inspiration from the unholy combination of VMS and the 1980s microkernel movement) that's called Windows today.

      Throughout my life I've used a variety of different platforms, though the ability to choose something different dried up in the mid-nineties as one by one the alternatives either went bankrupt or became obsolete. Some - at the time I was using them, not now - felt more comfortable, flexible, and ultimately more usable, than *ix. AmigaOS 2.04+ (especially augmented with the GCC tools) would be an example (again, NOT NOW, THEN.) Others, like VMS, were ugly, and horrendous to use or program, but they were still valuable in terms of providing wonderful ideas that, alas, we've ignored since - VMS itself had generic job queues, indexed files right in the file system, a shell that didn't blindly execute files with the same name a command you'd typed, security passed upon roles and permissions, networking built into the file system (think if you could type "cat header.html scp://otherhost/home/squiggleslash/main.html footer.html > blah.html" - that's roughly what I'm talking about), all unfortunately crippled by some clumsy design decisions and a reliance on proprietary hardware.

      *ix is great, but for those who've experienced more than Unix and Windows, it's... well, it's kind of like we settled. You know that couple who knew each other at high school, and then after a 20 year absence got married at 40? And they seem OK, but you realize both are bored, and both married because they felt like they were running out of options?

      That's us and *ix.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  46. Respect established UI principles by neilo_1701D · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem with Window 8.x (and Office 2013 / VS 2012 etc) is how they are breaking established UI conventions for no good reason and with very little payoff.

    The Windows 8 Start screen, for example, takes the focus in a big way. The Start screen in Server 2012 is even worse; if I right-click to run a program as administrator, the context menu appears at the bottom of the screen. Talk about breaking context!

    With Office, not only do we have the screen-stealing ribbon (not completely bad, but still...), all the tab titles are uppercase. The Microsoft style guide says this is a no-no; yet the Office team do it. The VS2012 menus are the same.

    I'll agree that Win 8.x has probably the best Windows kernel ever. The UI is a turn off.

    I'm hoping that Windows 9 brings back some vestige of Windows 7 UI whilst keeping the best bits of Win 8. Heck; if that's impossibly I'll gladly settle for a Window 98 UI. At least it was consistent, and didn't obscure the screen with useless tat.

    1. Re:Respect established UI principles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to change your screen to "portrait mode" and turn your screen sideways for that. It's a windows feature.

  47. Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    The Amiga had virtual desktops in 1985.

  48. Misuse of 'My' by Livius · · Score: 1

    I expect Microsoft to continue to use 'My' when the correct word is 'Your'. The way people talk to two-year-olds.

    Says a lot about how Microsoft views their customers.

  49. Another new MS OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just wish there was another popular OS and I'd be done Windows completely. Many of my clients will stay as long as possible on 7 and then begrudgingly move to 9. OS changes are happening way too fast and not offering up something better. As mentioned earlier, they blunder with every other OS. Here's hoping 9 is the XP or 7 equivalent of a new, sustainable OS and have it hang around a while.

  50. Expect nothing, you should too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What to expect? I expect nothing. Literally. I switched to FreeBSD a decade ago and never missed a beat.
    Switch to FreeBSD or Linux and you'll be just as happy, more secure and not owned by the man. They have games there too.

  51. Not enough info yet by Dracos · · Score: 1

    Many reactions will depend on the actual version number in Win9... will it be 6.3, 7, or 9?

    1. Re:Not enough info yet by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      It will be Windows NT 6.4.

  52. I can guarantee one thing... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    ...it won't have a single thing I need.

    --
    -Styopa
  53. a realistic answer by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Captain cloud services is now CEO of MS and they were already headed down the wrong path. So get ready for a cell phone and Xbox-live level of ongoing nickel and diming. Buy it and forget it? HELL NO! That died with Windows 7. And then 6 months later, Linux will explode and MS will make half the stuff they tried to charge for free (see Windows 8.1 patch, lol).

  54. Is it me? Or is it you? by Seumas · · Score: 1

    I can't figure out if I'm just too old and grumpy or if operating systems are just desperately uninspired. I remember how exciting a new OS used to be. Couldn't wait to learn about it. To get your hands on it. To install it. To customize it. To get things just right. It has been a good decade since an OS -- OSX, Windows, Linux, etc -- made me do much more than groan and think "maybe I can skip this one and the next one will be interesting". The most thought I find myself giving any of them, now, is to wonder just how much stuff they're going to fuck up that I'm going to have to learn to deal with.

    I think the last thing I ever got excited about, OS-wise, was when I gave up on everything and said "I'm sticking with XFCE as much as possible" -- and that was less glee than exasperation.

    1. Re:Is it me? Or is it you? by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 2

      I can't figure out if I'm just too old and grumpy or if operating systems are just desperately uninspired.

      It's probably a mix of both.

      Of course operating systems have matured. Today they do practically everything we can think about. There are no obvious features left to add. So development, especially from an end user's perspective, seems slow.

      On the other hand, I don't agree that there is no development like you seem to imply. I'm using OS X, so that's the only OS I can really talk about. Some of the things we got the last few years:
      - Spotlight.
      A fast global search can really change some workflows. Gone are the days when I had to trawl through nested folders to find that file from a week ago. Now I can search for name or content or even the date I did use it last.
      - Time Machine
      Switching machines? Just restore from the last Time Machine backup and everything is like it was before.
      That new version of application X sucks? Accidentally clobbered some file? No worries. Restore from Time Machine backup.
      - iCloud Sync
      OK, so not everyone wants that. But it is nice if data is kept in sync between devices automatically.

      Of course there is much more, many of it not directly visible. (There's a reason MacBooks have great battery live. And it's not just better hardware.)

      So, I agree with you up to a point. OS development is not as exciting as it used to be. But it didn't stop either. Interesting things still happen.

    2. Re:Is it me? Or is it you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Linux (though unfortunately often disabled in distribution kernels) there are now things like transparent compression of caches, compression of RAM instead of using swap. Those are rather nice on smaller machines.

  55. Two Words: by Pete+Venkman · · Score: 1

    Missed opportunity. Windows 8 tried to tell users what they were supposed to want. 9 would be a good chance to give users what they actually want (hint: a usable desktop that 'just works' goes a long way)

  56. how much for a simple upgrade by dhanson865 · · Score: 1

    all I want to know is will I be able to buy a retail copy for less than $50 without having to play the OEM/System builder/school edition/illegal download copied to a disk to look like the real thing/whatdidImiss game?

  57. You know... by zoid.com · · Score: 1

    It's interesting. I've been to many customer sites in the last few years and every one has macbooks. There was one rogue windows lenovo user. I'm sure that here are many windows users and in fact while talking to out customers they have boo koo (s) amount of windows users but it seems that always the admins/managers have macbooks. Always. again, Always. In fact, I can't even remember If I have ever seen WIndows 8.1. Maybe at a best buy?

  58. My Litmus Test by DenaliPrime · · Score: 1

    If I look at it's UI and think, "1990's AOL called and wants its interface back"... I'm not interested.

    --
    I! Tego Arcana Dei.
  59. how long can I keep my Win7? by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    I'm still using my XP and Win98, I bought a Win7 laptop couple years ago and hearing all about Win8, I sure glad I got Win7. I know some people that when Vista came out, they immediately abandoned their XP but saved their files (which most were no good under Vista). Then Win7 came out, they did the same thing again (which I don't blame them for doing so). But they also abandoned Win7 for 8 and suffered problems. Win7 is fine and can do everything (these people are not developers, mostly use Office and surf the web). I don't get it, why do some people do that? I can somewhat understand about getting a new car that has various gadgets to impress the chicks. But a computer?

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
    1. Re:how long can I keep my Win7? by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 1

      I don't get it, why do some people do that? I can somewhat understand about getting a new car that has various gadgets to impress the chicks. But a computer?

      I think for those people the computer is not a tool, something to get something done (be it work or games). For them it is more of a toy to tinker with, like a model train. I mean, how many people tinker with their vacuum cleaner, change components of their power drill or build a custom case for their TV? Yet, some people do all these things with their computers. They are not tools; not means to an end. For those people the computer itself is what holds their interest.

  60. Just now they're getting virtual desktops? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    Windows had this too, it was just never a default part of an official release. It was a part of PowerToys or some such as I recall. It didn't work that well at times but it just needed some evolving.

  61. I fixed windows on my system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I fixed windows on my system, I forked out $$ and installed Directory Opus. Now I'm happy with Windows, much more so than with Mac.

    1. Re:I fixed windows on my system by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 1

      I fixed windows on my system, I forked out $$ and installed Directory Opus. Now I'm happy with Windows, much more so than with Mac.

      I never understood the focus on file managers. Is moving files around really such a big part of your computer use?

  62. Windows 10? by dr_blurb · · Score: 1

    Can't we just start talking about Windows 10 already, and how it will fix the problems with Windows 9?

    And will it have minecraft as the default user interface? (it should, get 'em while they're young)

  63. One major reason by dbIII · · Score: 1

    To use more memory. Admittedly you can solve that with the 64 bit XP if you have hardware it supports, or you can get server 2003 which is similar to XP, or you can roll back to Win2k to get away from the fucking stupid memory ceiling in XP if you have more than one core (I've still got a 6GB Win2k machine lurking in storage to run some legacy software every couple of years).
    If you don't need more memory, as with a couple of receptionists computers in my workplace, XP does the job up to at least MS Office 2010.

  64. Matrox had one that actually worked, unlike MS by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Matrox had one back then that was half decent but it got broken by later versions of MS Windows. Nvidia still has a multiple desktop thing packaged with Quatro cards which has gone in cycles from perfect to flaky and back again. The MS one was proof of concept and may have worked initially but it turned into a certain blue screen timebomb a while after it had become abandonware. There were various others that worked for a while but nothing you could use for the long term.
    It's almost as if it was a purchase requirement for a sale and abandoned later, but I suspect it's more a series of projects that were not maintained.

  65. Directory Opus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft should buy GP Software and employ John and Greg to make Opus the default Windows interface... How people use Windows without Opus is beyond me...

  66. What To Expect With Windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two world rebuttal

    "Linux Fanboy"

  67. Does anybody care? by devent · · Score: 1

    What I want for Windows:
    - the possibility to delete files even if they are in use
    - Unix tools available (find, grep, ssh, rsync, gpg, git) out of the box
    - support for Linux file systems (ext2, ext3, ext4, brtfs)
    - support for Lvm and dm-raid and cryp LUKS
    - sshfs to mount file systems over ssh
    - get rid of device letters
    - CUPS
    - virtual desktops
    - software updates that do not take 2 hours and require x restarts
    - repository for hardware drivers, so I don't have to hunt down drivers from vendors
    - a terminal emulator that does not was ported from 1991 DOS
    - dialogs that can be resized, all the time
    - boot manager that supports alternative systems (GRUP can start Windows and Linux, and have auto-setup)
    - possibility to re-assign keyboard keys without registry hacks
    - get rid of the registry
    - possibility to just copy Windows to a different computer
    - recognition of my second hard disk in Windows Install (seriously, I cannot install Windows 7 to my second hard disk)
    - get rid of the System-Partition

    --
    http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    1. Re:Does anybody care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you on the registry. God, I hate that thing.

  68. Aero Or Go Home by oji-sama · · Score: 1

    Nah. It took a long time to get used to the flatness of Windows 8 (and still looks boring), but the level of transparency in W7 is in my opinion too high (after getting used to 8). Pity they went nuts fixing it.

    --
    It is what it is.
  69. Free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make it free, like OS X. Most desktop users simply want up to date software on their old hardware. Nothing else (politics etc) matters.

  70. Litmus test? by Krymzn · · Score: 1

    Why does it matter whether Windows 9 will be acidic or alkaline?

  71. Hey you miserable little piece of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had it with your crap, bigmouth: See you here http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    APK

    P.S.=> You've been messing with me for weeks - time to mess with you (looking @ your post history, you screw with everyone 99% of the time too) & time for some payback to you (for everyone, not just myself) - just to humiliate the hell out of a dickwad like yourself... apk

  72. Re: Clippy 2.0? --- Should've been "Crappy 2.0" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only thing worse than Windows is iOS.

  73. It's time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Time to pay up again, fuckers! That's what it's all about.

  74. 3D BSOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe Ballmer's patent-free BSOD in 3D?

  75. Re:Clippy 2.0? --- Should've been "Crappy 2.0" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows 8 is actually really good, it's the start screen on non-touch devices that is crap. Fortunately taking two minutes to download and install Classic Shell resolves that problem.

  76. What to expect? A rush of anticipation by jpellino · · Score: 1

    for Windows 10 of course.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  77. But can I have a path name loner than 256? by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    All I care about is- can I finally create a path+filename+extension location longer than 256 and still have Windows Explorer work? Or is this bug still dictating the names I can give my libraries?

    It's a simple question.

    I am *quite* sure the answer is no, \so what do I care about Windows 9?

    Answer- I don't.

    Windows 7 is still humming along, thanks.

  78. Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Windows" an important platform and need to correct their mistakes.

    Windows için Gerekli Programlar

  79. What To Expect With Windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Load of crippleware.

  80. high licensing fees, again by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    i doubt Nadella will fix the biggest problem at Microsoft: high licensing fees.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  81. Clippy 2.1 by schlachter · · Score: 1

    I noticed you are struggling to deal with it. Perhaps I can help.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  82. It's A Fair Question by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    Can bored 12 year olds still hack into them? Bored 12 year olds want to know.

  83. What I expect... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    What I expect, nay demand, is that Microsoft give Windows 9 away for free as way of apology for forcing that abomination upon us.

  84. Run what works with the hardware by phorm · · Score: 1

    Why would you? You *could* compare to Windows 7/8 *IF* they supported that old hardware, but chances are you'd run into an issue finding drivers for the sound or possibly LAN devices.
    So what's the OS that gives you much of the latest goodies *AND* works well on the old hardware? If it's Win7/8 then feel free to install that, but if it's a modern version of Linux you'd be an idiot to install an old version.

  85. What to expect? by FithisUX · · Score: 1

    Windows 9 changelog New and exciting in this release -IE replaced with Firefox -Notepad replaced with notepad2 (please use Notepad++ for power users) -Office is deprecated, consider switching to Libreoffice -cmd is deprecated, to be removed in a future release. Please consider using Conemu -7-zip is the default for archive handling -A new POSIX subsystem to gradually replace win32 crap 100% compatible with cygwin. Cygwin is expected to fly performanwise. -Process hacker has replaced windows system monitor. - Visual studio for other languages other than D is deprecated. A new release throws away all the crap, make the Shell thin and usable with D. -C# is deprecated, use D (not Java, they are competitors). We will re-introduce C# through mono. We failed. -Gnu guix is supported -If you want to use C/C++ consider moving to mingw. We have already moved. -Get your updates faster through portable apps. -Paint is here to stay -Windows media player leaves. VLC is the default player. -SEH patents have expired. Who cares, new in this release DWARF-3. -The GatesBot will build latest versions of over 1000 FOSS apps/libraries nightly for your pleasure. Get them through msys2. -We love FOSS, we have more recent versions than Linux distros. Have a nice day.

  86. Spare PC's by phorm · · Score: 1

    One of the fun things with a Linux install, it's fairly portable across hardware so long as you're using a generic enough kernel. If you want to install the exact same thing on 5-6 machines you can just do one, get it where you want it, and then clone the drive (or copy the files and reinstall GRUB). Heck, you could have it all on a thumb drive and move between machine with that.

    The only place I've really run into issues is sometimes when switching between systems that use an nVidia VS ATI binary driver.

  87. Whoa! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoa! How can you use 8 workspaces?

    I've been using virtual desktops since the 80s. I typically run with 30 (5x6) but I had to upgrade to 36 (6x6) as 30 just wasn't enough. At any given time I'll have several thousand windows open or iconified, (Mostly, though far from exclusively, emacs and xterm.) Typically with 600 or so processes. (Mostly servers or background deamons.) Of course I'm using Linux as Windows just can't support my workload without crashing...

    It's a hardship using Macs with OSX's 16 workspace limitation. 8 though. Whoa man. That's so tiny... How do you do it?

    1. Re: Whoa! by corychristison · · Score: 1

      I'm not managing a datacenter here. Just a local web application development shop. :-)

      I personally use XFCE, which allows upto 100 workspaces.

    2. Re:Whoa! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been using virtual desktops since the 80s. I typically run with 30 (5x6) but I had to upgrade to 36 (6x6) as 30 just wasn't enough.

      I'd like to see the "I'd rather have physical screens" guy go out and buy the monitors and video cards to match that setup.

  88. touch screen with textures. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think they need to have a touch screen with textures, soft and squishy, rough and scratchy, wet and sticky. could add a whole new dimension to touch screens.

  89. Amiga by Silvrmane · · Score: 1

    I think this is going to finally be the year of the Amiga desktop!

  90. Windows 9 litmus test: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How easily I can wipe the it off the system and replace it with a Linux distro.

  91. hotbutton for me by tacokill · · Score: 1

    Dear friendly helper person, please help me make Win 7 explorer look and act more like win2000 explorer. I gave this search up a long time ago but you have breathed some new life into my quest. I've been using Win7 for so long I kind of forgot how much I hated the new file explorer when I migrated from W2K.

    Please share, my good man!

  92. Bitter Rant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All you "I'm gonna stick with Win7" people just STFU; We all know you will U-turn so hard the skid marks will emboss the asphalt.

    I bet you are the same lot that said you'd boycott WinXP because it had on-line activation back in the day but got it anyway and began singing its praises instead.

    You don't have a choice so stop lying to yourselves.

    As we have seen, all it takes is for hardware vendors to pull driver support, then you WILL be using Win9.

    MS are lucky they never got WDM to work otherwise we'd have drivers that weren't OS dependent and I could still be using Win2000!

  93. Big difference by cbhacking · · Score: 1

    Sandboxing and automatic updates. Those are two of the most critical features of the "Windows Store" apps.

    All store apps run with extremely low privileges, and are only given access to the resources that they specify at installation. They can't read, much less wrote, most of the file system. They can't open arbitrary device handles. They can't enumerate running processes, much less open handles to them. They can't log your keystrokes (while the app lacks focus) or record your network traffic (except for the traffic to or from the app). They can *never* have Administrator powers.

    All of this has two important effects. First, you can be sure that the apps are pretty safe to install, because there just isn't much that a Trojan app could do. Second, you don't have to worry much about the app being compromised by a remote attacker, because even if the attacker gets arbitrary code execution within the app there's basically nothing serious they can do with it. Worst case, you can uninstall an app (and guarantee that you get all of it).

    The other key difference is the ability to do automatic updates. It's long been noted that while Linux's software repositories and package managers make keeping all your software current an easy process, on Windows you have practically every single app installing its own update mechanism... or not having any update mechanism and hence people run all manner of outdated versions. It's an extra burden on the developers and an inconvenience for the users. The store offers a built-in way to publish updates, notify users of updates, and even install updates automatically in the background if the user so desires.

    --
    There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  94. There are reasons for those things by cbhacking · · Score: 1

    1) Use the command line, if this is important to you. Graphical shells for Linux sometimes do this too; it's not a Windows-exclusive thing. It's mostly just a way to implement symlink-like behavior (put your pictures on the external drive, but make them still reachable from your user profile) without actually exposing a symlink interface (which NTFS actually supports, BTW). It's not like you can't find the real paths easily, anyhow.

    2) I mostly agree, though there's basically always a way to find out what the actual error was. For example, the built-in network troubleshooter will tell you what it finds (and whether it was able to fix it or not), although it takes a while to run. Worst case, check the event log. All kinds of stuff winds up there but you can often find what you're looking for with only a little filtering.

    3) That message appears when a Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) device does not report that it supports a file type and you try to copy it anyhow. Since MTP allows reporting supported file types (among other things, this allows automatic conversion of media files by sync utilities), it really is the responsibility of whoever wrote the device's MTP implementation to report its supported file types correctly. In the case of a smartphone, that may just be everything but the PC doesn't know that. For the record, copying an MP3 to my phone does *NOT* give that warning, although copying an EXE does.

    4) Never going to happen. File locks are an OS-enforced security feature. Yes, it would be nice if the OS wee to go check what process has the handle open and tell you (starting with Vista, Windows will do this under *some* circumstances but it could really be more common). Ideally, it would then (assuming you have sufficient privileges, which may be as-is, may be Administrator, or may be something like SYSTEM) offer to close the handle for you, unlocking the file. Of course, this risks crashing the process that had the handle open - an obvious example would trying to delete the executable of a running process - but it would also be an acceptable option to just kill the process (again, assuming you have privileges). Sure, Linux gets by with its file access system, which has no way to lock a file (you can change the permissions on it if you own it or are root, but that won't stop somebody else who already has an open file descriptor from reading or writing to the file) but file locks have been a part of the Microsoft file system access paradigm for practically as long as they've been writing operating systems, and developers in the Windows world use them and rely on them. Changing that behavior in some drastic way would have a major impact on the security (and sometimes the simple correctness) of software written for Windows.

    5) So what, MS should just assume that everybody who might ever want to store files in something like Box or OneDrive should already know about them, have downloaded and installed them, and that MS should never offer to integrate one of their products with another of their products unless you explicitly tell them to? Do you also object to Android automatically adding your Gmail account if you sign into it when setting up the phone, or to KDE opening AmaroK by default when you double-click a FLAC file? Oh, and if WMP is "spewing" its icon about, you have a definite case of PEBKAC. The only WMP icons on my machine are for launching the program itself (in Start or ont he taskbar, probably on the program binary too); all of my media files have icons from my preferred media player and have had those icons ever since I set the file association to that media player. Are you telling WMP to re-associate itself with its playable file types? Because it does not do that automatically...

    --
    There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  95. You're exposed for libel, lies, & stalking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barb your lies, stalking, and libel have been torn apart by your antics http://slashdot.org/comments.p... with proof you can't deny (your own words and actions did you in quoted and shown there).

  96. Get to know the real BarbHudson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barb your lies, stalking, + libel have been exposed http://slashdot.org/comments.p... with proof you can't deny (your own words & actions did you in shown quoted there).

  97. The real BarbaraHudson exposed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barb your lies, stalking, + libel have been exposed http://slashdot.org/comments.p... with proof you can't deny (your own words & actions did you in shown quoted there).