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Russia Takes Down Steve Jobs Memorial After Apple's Tim Cook Comes Out
An anonymous reader writes Citing the need to abide by a law combating "gay propaganda," a memorial dedicated to the late Apple founder Steve Jobs has been torn down. This comes on the heels of new CEO Tim Cook coming out as gay. "In Russia, gay propaganda and other sexual perversions among minors are prohibited by law," ZEFS (a Russian group of companies that originally erected the statue) said, noting that the memorial had been "in an area of direct access for young students and scholars". "After Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy, the monument was taken down to abide to the Russian federal law protecting children from information promoting denial of traditional family values."
After Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy
I know this is terrible and all, but as someone completely unaffected by this (not an apple fanboy, russian or gay) I find some kind of weird surreal humour in the whole thing.
Mr Putin says there is no discrimination against gay people in Russia and the law was needed only to protect young people
Like, how do you even reach this point of reasoning.
Putin on a horse half naked is not gay.
... the government sodomizes you!
Res ipsa loquitur.
Glad we finally put that one to rest.
Thank you, Russian oligarchs, putocrats, and dictators.
Now that we've settled that, next up on /.... who's smarter, Hillary Clinton or Martha Bush. Hint: there's no right answer.
E
By the same logic, I may well be arrested for sodomy because one of my distant relations is gay.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Removal of Steve Jobs memorial due to 'gay propaganda' law turns out to be PR hoax
http://rt.com/news/201855-steve-jobs-memorial-gay/
I didn't know a person could become gay-tainted after they die if their successor is gay. Hope the next person to have my job after I die isn't gay, otherwise my tombstone might set off someone's gaydar. that would be embarrassing.
Given the number of hits on pron sites for "Russian teen anal", I dare say Russia doesn't have anything against sodomy.
and why was there a monument to Steve Jobs anyway? Seems like "today is monday" would be a good enough reason to tear it down. That said, this was a spectacularly bad reason, I'm just saying no reason was necessary. Doing something for the wrong reason doesn't make it the wrong thing to do - if I make a habit of drinking several glasses of water a day because I think the midichlorians need it for fuel, that doesn't mean I was wrong for drinking water...
And yet we allow old people, sterile people and people who may not properly even have sex to marry...
That someone still seriously believes that homosexuality is a threat to population is just plain bizarre. First of all, nothing stops homosexuals from having children, and many do, and second of all, they remain a very small part of the population (something like 1 in 10 people).
And if Russia is really interested in repopulating its depleted population, it should be targeting vodka and a persistently shitty economy. Homosexuals are not responsible for the decades long drain on Russian population.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Since you're the one making the claim that homosexuality is counterproductive to population growth, I'm sure you can actually provide some citations.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Pure homosexuals are also a minority. There may be some evolutionary benefit to "sacrificing" a small portion of the breeding population, allowing them to act as foster parents to the children of deceased heterosexual relatives. That takes the strain off of other couples that are raising their own children. I'd also argue that a sexual couple is a more basic social grouping than a family is, acting as a core that a family can grow around. Genes want to propagate, and they can get very creative in their methods. They often find counter-intuitive optimizations. Even if an individuals genes aren't spread directly through procreation, they can have a supportive influence on closely-related genes.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
If they claim the monument that looks like an iPhone is gay propaganda, then it should follow that all actual handheld iPhones are also gay propaganda. It also follows that all Apple products are gay propaganda. I dare them to ban iPhones and all other Apple products in Russia. Do it. DO IT.
Actually, no, only a fraction of the population is consuming all the porn. The majority are just too damn busy and stressed out to even want sex. That's scary.
What, you think liberal-thinking people make those kind of accomplishments? No way, conservatism drives military-industrial complexes, my boy. Liberal thinking is for developing artsy-fartsy things like fine cuisine; at the supermarket yesterday I saw a "russian cold salad" with six layers of ingredients: herring, carrots, beets, potatoes, onions and mayonnaise. So as we can see understanding Russian cuisine is easy to master, since they don't have any. QED, I rest my case.
These people are so fucking sutpid, it is astonishing to think that they developed nuclear weapons; waged the Cold War; and to this day, launch people into space! Their entirely dysfunctional leadership does not seem capable of any rational thought. Perhaps those early accomplishments were just manifestations of autonomous reflexes?
Are we still talking about Russia? America isn't exactly running the smoothest, most intelligent government at the moment either...
Hell, even that mayonnaise with three ingredients would have been plain white yogurt to be truly authentic. No Ivan with vodka fried taste buds would either appreciate nor need anything so complex
No it is not obvious. If you can provide actual citations showing that homosexuality depresses populations, then I have no reason whatsoever to believe your claim.
What I do know is that homosexuals, at least in any industrialized population, make up roughly 5 to 10% of the population, and that is likely be consistent for at least decades, if not longer.
When someone responds to a demand for actual references in peer reviewed literature with "no, I won't, because my claim is obvious", then the only thing I can discern from that is that you have no data to back it up, and your simply asserting without qualification or data, that your prejudice is true.
As to Russia, I cannot influence them, but that doesn't mean I should approve of their persecution of homosexuals.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I read the summary as "...after Apple's Tim cock comes out". May be that tells something about me...
You're the one making the claim, you demonstrate it's veracity. And no, "it's obvious" is not a defense, it's merely handwaving. You keep repeating "it's obvious" like it represent anything other than your own homophobia.
What are you afraid of? That Mother Russia may someday have to answer for its mistreatment of minorities? That homosexuality isn't the evil you seem to believe it is?
If you have some actual evidence, cite it. But if you think "it's obvious" will convince anyone of anything, then you're as big a fool as you make yourself appear to be.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Did anybody in Russia notice that Steve Jobs and Tim Cook are not the same person? I'm afraid even trying to think like a looney, anti-gay zealot, I can't figure out the line of reasoning that led to this decision...
Heh, I'm assuming you're referring to this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt01...
Dan
that they wanted to make a statement about Apple and couldn't be bothered to come up with a better pretext.
Aside from being consumers of Apple products, what's the connection between Russia and Steve Jobs? I'm confused as to why they would have it in the first place.
Sounds like Vlad feels that being gay is a choice
If you really want to know, and you should want to know, then watch this video from a KGB agent that defected to the US just to explain this issue.
Basically the way it's explained, Russian's don't hate gays, and liberals won't protect them. They just see the gay movement as more of a way to attack the existing power structure. Is Clay Aiken really good for NC, or is he Chicken Little, setup on an issued that is only designed to get Chicken Little elected?
Your test for whether something is a choice is idiotic; You could equally assert a "bank robber orientation" and assert that it is provably not a choice by telling people to "try being a bank robber for 1 week". You will get no takers on such a challeng in any crowd of normal people and yet this will NOT prove that bank robbers were "born that way". Any heterosexual man has the same basic physical capabilites as a homosexual man, so he could easily engage in homosexual acts... if he simply decides to reject his moral beliefs. The fact that some people find it impossible to dump their beliefs and engage in an act they hold to be immoral does not in any way indicate that people who DO engage in those acts are "oriented" that way.
I am perfectly capable of eating lobster, but I dislike the flavor so I do not eat it. This does NOT mean that I was born with a "lobsterless orientation", it just means that while I am quite capable of eating lobster, my personal preference is not to. Some people like mustard on their hot dogs and some do not. Such preferences are not physically hard-wired into anybody's genes, and many preferences may change during ones life. Sorry, but the fact that some of us like one thing and others of us like something else is completely meaningless in any discussion of "right" or "wrong" and is entirely unrelated to whether we have an actual choice in the matter.
Face it: There is no "gay gene". The claim that there was or that there might be was a political tactic that was useful for a while in the late 80s. Homosexuality is nothing new; it's been around for thousands of years and is nothing more or less than a rejection of normality and moral traditions. It's no different than a Jewish or Muslim person deciding that he likes the flavor of bacon and deciding to eat lots of bacon and insist that the rules of his former belief system be changed to support his new appetite.
AFAIK, in Russia, Apple products are generally not considered "masculine enough" long before Cook's relevations. For many russians, i-devices are girl-only. (Well, for the same those russians, anything expensive enough is a somehow "gay" when owned by a man or somehow related to prostitution, when owned by a woman... socialism, that is.)
Putin is not an idiot.
Giving Russian population a boogieman and someone to vent their frustrations against reinforces his power.
In Soviet Russia, trampling workers' rights gets you a monument, having a gay friend (?) gets it to be demolished.
It's possible, but not every trait which exists has evolved because it has some evoloutionary advantage.
An alternative is that it's hard to make a brain which reliably finds a member of the opposite sex, especially given that the drives are somewhat indirect. E.g. people mostly hump merely due to feeling randy. It's that which leads to making the next generation. So it's now down to a question of a brain which thinks "I'm randy now i want to stick it in something with this rather incomplete and ambiguous set of attributes". That gets even worse when you include things like secondary sexual characteristics.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I thought Russia's birthrate problem was mostly due to men drinking themselves to death. Their women don't want to be around guys who are drinking themselves to death, so they prefer to become mail-order brides.
Yes they are looking at a choice between giving up the vodka or blaming the gays .... is anyone surprised at the result?
To elaborate (I'm neither gay, nor gay hater, nor Russian, nor iPhone lover, please spare me and don't try reading between the lines as there is nothing in there, really)
Russia has a law that basically forbids "as Good As You" approach. (that's where word "gay" comes from, to my knowledge)
That is, by claiming being gay is as good as being heterosexual, or that gay sex is as normal as heterosexual sex, you break the law.
The theory of Russian parliament is that such claims are effectively gay propaganda.
Now, Cook not only said that he was gay (which, frankly, could also have been interpreted same way), but also claimed it to be "a gift" from God. This, apparently, breaks the above mentioned law.
You aren't explaining anything - you are providing your opinion, and expecting that to be accepted on face value simply because it's your opinion. If you could back it up with facts, then you can get upset that people ignore it. Until then "it's obvious" is not helping your case.
Being rich is a family value everywhere. Being a successful technocrat in Russia is tradition-approved, too.
"Traditional family values" my arse.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
But in other country sodomy is actually only anal sex. An example is the french dictionary which *solely* describe it as anal coitus. I would not be surprised to elarn that in russia it is the same, unfortunately I cannot check a russian dictionary.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Russia had a memorial to Steve Jobs?
The Catholic church sure has Russia fucked up the proverbial ass.
Seriously the gay community could have it a lot worse then not being able to marry.
The good old "you're still better off than in Nazi Germany/North Korea" argument.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
After Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy
LOLWUT? I don't remember that. What did he say?
"Go forth and sodomize one another, let the santorum flow freely!"
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I believe most of us agree that homophobia is rude (to say the least.) But as Steve Jobs wasn't gay, removing the memorial dedicated to him is highly illogical.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
The Russian government while claiming one thing does something completely different? We can't even throw stones in that regard around here either. It's been long known that being openly gay in Russia is very hazardous for your health.
How is this surprising to anybody? Exactly, it's not.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Russia gays like Tschaikovski have given the world treasures. Few care they are gay.
Tchaikovsky
Not true. Do you have a TV?
Watch a news report from Afghanistan. There will always be dozens of sheep and goats milling around nervously in the background.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Heh, I'm assuming you're referring to this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt01...
I really like your reference, but I was referring to that 'Barbra Streisand' song by Duck Sauce.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Please go back to reddit. You don't even understand the Streisand effect. What made you think you're qualified to wander outside Facebook, anyway?
I don't use reddit or facebook and I doubt you are qualified to be on my lawn.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Well, the not-so-gay-friendly 1960's USA was able to put people on the moon, while Obama's politically correct America is not even able to put people into orbit. Bush promised a moonshot. Obama promised a Mars-mission. Currently LEO-capability is promised for 2017. Let's see whether the 2017-promise will hold, but I'm not convinced.
http://www.amazon.com/Biologic...
"Homosexuality in its myriad forms has been scientifically documented in more than 450 species of mammals, birds, reptiles, insects, and other animals worldwide. Biological Exuberance is the first comprehensive account of the subject, bringing together accurate, accessible, and nonsensationalized information. Drawing upon a rich body of zoological research spanning more than two centuries, Bruce Bagemihl shows that animals engage in all types of nonreproductive sexual behavior. Sexual and gender expression in the animal world displays exuberant variety, including same-sex courtship, pair-bonding, sex, and co-parenting--even instances of lifelong homosexual bonding in species that do not have lifelong heterosexual bonding.
Part 1, "A Polysexual, Polygendered World," begins with a survey of homosexuality, transgender, and nonreproductive heterosexuality in animals and then delves into the broader implications of these findings, including a valuable perspective on human diversity. Bagemihl also examines the hidden assumptions behind the way biologists look at natural systems and suggests a fresh perspective based on the synthesis of contemporary scientific insights with traditional knowledge from indigenous cultures.
Part 2, "A Wondrous Bestiary," profiles more than 190 species in which scientific observers have noted homosexual or transgender behavior. Each profile is a verbal and visual "snapshot" of one or more closely related bird or mammal species, containing all the documentation required to support the author's often controversial conclusions.
Lavishly illustrated and meticulously researched, filled with fascinating facts and astonishing descriptions of animal behavior, Biological Exuberance is a landmark book that will change forever how we look at nature."
Basically, for decades, even centuries, wildlife biologists have been making assumptions about the sexes of animals based on their interactions -- either than or consciously suppressing the data that shows homosexuality in the wild.
Of course, just because animals do something has never been a conclusive argument for why humans should do it, because humans are moral beings and make choices (a point my Ecology&Evolution Prof. Larry Slobodkin made in a course of philosophy and ecology/evolution). But love is so often rare and fleeting in this life, why go out of our way to make it more difficult for some people? Was the world really better off because of what was done to Alan Turing after he helped Britain survive WWII?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
See also for references to some studies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
More discussion (which mentions the page you site):
"Is Sexual Orientation Determined at Birth?"
http://borngay.procon.org/view...
And: ... Vasey speculates that part of the reason the fa'afafine are more attentive to their nephews and nieces is their acceptance in Samoan culture compared to gay men in the West and Japan ("You can't help your kin if they've rejected you"). But he also believes th
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...
"Paul Vasey's research in Samoa has focused on a theory called kin selection or the "helper in the nest" hypothesis. The idea is that gay people compensate for their lack of children by promoting the reproductive fitness of brothers or sisters, contributing money or performing other uncle-like activities such as babysitting or tutoring. Some of the gay person's genetic code is shared with nieces and nephews and so, the theory goes, the genes which code for sexual orientation still get passed down.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Well that was an amazingly detailed post. Thank you. If I had mod points and could use them, you'd get them.
Overall, after reading all of that along with what you yourself have said, it seems that you are saying the assertion that it's not a choice is baseless, but regardless of whether it's a choice or not, the more important issue is our acceptance of homosexuals.
I agree with that. I'm personally of the mind that homosexuality is wrong (that's my personal moral choice), but that they should be treated no differently than the rest of humanity. I'm sure everyone has lied at some point in their life. I don't see it differently. I'm also pro same sex marriage interestingly due to the financial considerations.
Overall, I'm pro freedom-to-do-as-we-wish as long as people are taught the responsibility that goes along with such things. i.e. abortion, guns, same sex marriage, etc.
i.e. I don't think it's right that people do it, but I don't think they should be treated as they are for what they do.