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The Cashless Society? It's Already Coming
HughPickens.com writes Damon Darlin writes in the NYT that Apple pay is revolutionary but not for the reason you think. It isn't going to replace the credit card but it's going to replace the wallet — the actual physical thing crammed with cards, cash, photos and receipts. According to Darlin, when you are out shopping, it's the wallet, not the credit card, that is the annoyance. It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost. "I've learned while traipsing about buying stuff with my ApplePay that I can whittle down wallet items that I need to carry to three": A single credit card, for places that have not embraced, but soon will, some form of smartphone payment; a driver's license; and about $20 in cash. Analysts at Forrester Research estimate that over the next five years, US mobile payments will grow to $142 billion, from $3.7 billion this year. "If I were to make a bet, I'd say that 10 years from now the most popular answer from young shoppers about how they make small payments would be: thumbprint. And you'll get a dull shrug when you ask what a wallet is."
> earned while traipsing about buying stuff with my ApplePay that I can whittle down wallet items that I need to carry to three": A single credit card, for places that have not embraced, but soon will, some form of smartphone payment; a driver's license; and about $20 in cash.
Okay... so why is ApplePay required to get down to those 3 items? Surely he can do with just the 3 and no apple pay....
"It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost"
My wallet is on a chain which links to my belt loop on my pants. My wallet will not be lost. However, my phone doesn't have this same protection.
And seriously, how is a phone any less likely to be lost than a wallet? One of the two is out and about of the pocket a hell of a lot more often than the other.
Without a smartphone, it seems that you'd get by with a single credit card, a driver's license; and about $20 in cash.
Where are you going to keep your condoms?
oh yeah... Slashdot, I remember now
Let's see.. things that won't be digitized anytime soon:
- drivers license
- gym card
- business card
- all those proximity reader entry cards for everything from zipcar to work
- work ID card
- subway / bus card
- discount / membership cards
Not to mention that my wallet never runs out of power or is otherwise rendered inoperable. Nor is my wallet susceptible to malware. As a bonus I can keep a stash of backup meds in my wallet in a little plastic container. It has a pleasant all-natural leather makeup that wears beautifully with time. And frankly it's a lot more dignified to have your amex clatter onto the bill at a fancy restaurant than it is to pull out your phone and beep-boop-beep up some app. As a side bonus at least some part of my life isn't under the NSA's review when I use cash.
I choose to use cash because most of my transactions are one where I do not wish to enter into a relationship with the other party.
Since I don't know how they will use my information, where there will upload it, what third party services they use and since nearly all do not have these answers when I ask, the only way for me to OPT OUT is cash.
The cashless society that Capt. Picard talks about, that's what I'm waiting for. Another 3 centuries, I guess..
Development is programmable; Discovery is not programmable. (Fuller)
My job, and almost all medical jobs require me to carry my physical certifications on my person. The state and other regulatory agencies can demand my cards at any time for inspection. It's about ten small cards that will likely never leave my wallet, no matter what comes down the line.
I wish there was a choice that said "Factually Wrong -1" when I mod.
Plenty of places worldwide do smartphone payments and you don't see them squawking about how the wallet is dead. It's just a convenience, not a game-changer.
When they decided to make it exclusive to apple devices while ignoring the much bigger android market.
At least I OWN this wallet!
I don't own this phone (and yes, I did pay for it and don't have a contract, but it can be switched off and the NSA can tap it willy nilly). You people want an e-wallet that can be shut off like your phone? Tapped like your phone?
What this is leading to is anybody politically undesirable will be shut out of the economy at the push of a button.
Fuck you technophiles
>80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
>life
My lost $20 bills never sent me a charge for $24,000 from halfway around the world from a country I've never been to. If some psycho exGF, worker, political opponent manages to frame you or turn everything off, 2-3 weeks fast pedaling becomes harder, while you starve. In a police state, all kinds of bad things formerly just in the movies, mean YOU.
I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s and never have more than a few dollars on me at any given time.. I put everything on a credit card and write one check a month to pay for everything. And now I don't even have to write a check, I just go online and make a payment straight out of my bank account to the credit card company. And, because I pay everything off every month it costs me nothing, and, since I'm using a 'cash back' credit card, I get a check for $50 every few months. It's not much but it's free money that I didn't have before. I'm sure the credit card company hates people like me, but fuck'em.
The credit card company loves people like you who evangelize the idea of using your credit card for everything and then paying it off immediately and then earning cashback on it.
Why? Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's just too tempting for most people to say, "Well, this ONE month, I'll pay it late and then get that JetSki I've had my eyes on."
According to Darlin, when you are out shopping, it's the wallet, not the credit card, that is the annoyance. It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost.
A cell phone is bulky and can be forgotten or lost. In addition, my wallet isn't big or bulky and contains my ID - which I'm required to carry, at least to drive, and won't be electronic for quite some time, if ever.
"If I were to make a bet, I'd say that 10 years from now the most popular answer from young shoppers about how they make small payments would be: thumbprint. And you'll get a dull shrug when you ask what a wallet is.
Merchants can have my thumbprint when they pry it from my cold dead hand. P.S. Cash and CC work even when my cell phone has no bars or is dead - if I carried a cell phone, which I don't.
Besides, aren't things like Apple Pay simply a credit-card proxy with, you know, Apple (or whoever) watching/tracking in between?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'm sure the credit card company hates people like me, but fuck'em.
When they can charge merchants a 3% fee because you won't consider using cash, you can be sure your CC company fuckin' loves you.
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
You won't be playing badminton at the clubs without cash.
Most people who pay me don't have bank accounts, it's either cash or money orders.
Gas for the car? Cheaper via cash. This becomes all the larger when gas prices are higher.
Car repairs? You'd be a fool to pay electronically, when the discount for cash gives you $20 back for small services, and multiples of that for large.
Drinks at the bar? Cash means faster service, more value to your tips, less problems/complaints on tabs.
Meanwhile, every other month I know folks who have dropped phones in the toilet, lost, broken, had their phone stolen, or the person paying for their phone service doesn't, so it gets shut off. Only once in my dozen years of doing my job has a client lost her purse.
I laugh every time these articles get posted here, as there are entire segments of society for whom this would not function.
Google Wallet and the Google Wallet card have done this since release. You mention custom apps, but ApplePay is just that and more to anyone without an iPhone 6.
-]Phreak Out[-
if it ain't in my pocket, it's on top of my videotape machine... a TT-70B the size of a Fiat. /-coot
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
The credit card company loves people like you who evangelize the idea of using your credit card for everything and then paying it off immediately and then earning cashback on it.
Why? Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's just too tempting for most people to say, "Well, this ONE month, I'll pay it late and then get that JetSki I've had my eyes on."
There is no "message" and I rarely mention this to anyone. Because I know that most people are too stupid to do it properly.
I just wrote a check today. I asked the guy if he would take a CC, they said they did on the phone. He was like, "my wife forgot to mention that". Then he was like, "they take a percentage anyway. Checks don't do that". One function of the much maligned Federal Reserve System is to oversee a system that... wait for it.. clears checks. It's all electronic behind the scenes now (that's how banks can let you scan checks with your phone). Presumably, this costs money; but they're not charging the merchant and they haven't charged me for the transaction as long as I don't overdraw. Yes, it costs money to print the checks. I really don't like them. I do tend to regard them as a backwards form of payment. As a consumer they occupy a "sour spot" between cash and credit. I don't get the anonymity and speed of cash or the reward points and easy online payment of credit. I was hoping that my recent print of new checks would be my last. With certain merchants and government agencies though, checks still seem to be preferred. I use them slowly, but I still use them. There may be another print in my future after all...
Anyway, screw all this cashless business. I like my bills, and I even like some of the loose change. We need to go dollar coin eventually, like most of the rest of the world, and eliminate the penny. I think that's more likely to happen than cashless. I know I'd rather see that happen.
Anyway, they haven't eliminated checks. If they actually did I might be more concerned that we're going cashless. As much as I hate the check, I'm sure there are people who hate other things I like and vice-versa. Why can't we all just get along? Wanna Apple Pay? Fine. Wanna Bitcoin? Fine. I don't want to do any of that. I think it's all stupid. I wanna cash for small stuff, and credit for some other things. I'm willing to deal with checks if I have to. The rest of the world can do whatever it wants; but don't try to force your ways on the rest of us.
I don't think the OP was intending "to save" anybody, rather just making an observation of how the world is. I think you just wanted to get on a soap box about personal responsibility and feel good about your restrained spending habits.
For me at least a wallet is a necessity. I have various forms of ID and other cards that I need for my job. Furthermore why should payment by phone replace a credit card when it is just as convenient in my opinion? Also let’s not forget the security issues that paying with a phone brings with it. Another thing too is that you can lose a phone as well, so to me it seems more like a preference than something that will make the wallet go away.
I'm sure the credit card company hates people like me, but fuck'em.
When they can charge merchants a 3% fee because you won't consider using cash, you can be sure your CC company fuckin' loves you.
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
Hey, guess what, I pay exactly the same price whether I use cash or credit card. The number of businesses that do not accept credit cards is extremely small and getting smaller every day. Yes, merchants *DO* eat the 3% CC fee. They have to. They have no choice thanks to good old fashioned competition. If you don't take credit cards you WILL lose business to competitors who do.
Back some time ago a bunch of merchants won a lawsuit challenging Visa/Mastercard rules, and as a result merchants are now allowed to charge people more for using a credit card instead of paying cash.. Well guess what, I have yet to encounter one single merchant doing that. They have no choice. Once again, good old fashioned competition. If they charge more for using a credit card, they will lose business to competitors who don't.
Hey mythosaz... I think you will find that trying to save every single one of the many billions of people in the world from all the nasty carrots which get wiggled in front of their faces by big companies every day is a losing proposition.
I'm reminded of the Cecil Adams / Straight Dope tagline: "Fighting ignorance since 1973 -- It's taking longer than we thought."
I've seen lots of people successfully churn every last purchase, every last reimbursable business expense, every last opportunity to pick up the check at a shared meal when their friends were paying cash and be very, very, successful.
I've also seen people buy the JetSki, figuratively.
I have no illusions of saving the world. I'm just sharing my thoughts on a message board built for that very purpose after someone else brought up the topic.
What if I don't? Is it going to be forced on me? I think not. What about poor people?
There will always be legal currency issued by your country, it will never be done away with completely, and I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to have every single financial transaction I make, no matter how small, tracked by someone.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
How are online merchants offering free shipping without charging higher prices? UPS and FedEx don't deliver packages for free. The merchant eats the cost to get more business. Same with credit cards.
.(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
.They lose money on me but make it back 1000 times over on all the dumbasses who charge more than they can afford to pay back.
Hell, I'm still waiting for flying cars, art deco robots and my vacation home on Venus.
... bitcoin articles on Slashdot.
Have we learned nothing about the inherent risks of centralized banking? Apple pay.... Gah!!
No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
I see comments like these all the time, and I've never understood them. Yes, the CC company charges 3% (or 1% or 5% depending on the volume you do, and how well you've shopped your bank contract).
There are also costs for accepting cash. You have to have change - you don't think armored car service is free do you? If you are small enough - you could pay one of your employees to go to the bank, or go yourself while you pay someone to mind the store. Of course, that's the perfect time to get robbed. You have to spend time counting and accounting for the cash - not always an easy task - and of course you have to have employees you trust to not skim while doing the counting.
And we certainly don't need to get into the costs of accepting checks...
Oh, we're in the universe of the made-for-TV infomercial, aren't we? You know, that universe where everyone has stupid made-up problems that no one actually has? All that's missing from the summary is the crappy acting of all the D-List wannabe actors having problems with their bulky wallets.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
We still have large amounts of grocery stores that still have min purchase $10 EFT due to high transaction charges.
I smell BS lies there from the shop owner being super stingy.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s and never have more than a few dollars on me at any given time
If you live somewhere where a natural disaster is a possibility (earthquake / hurricane / tornado) it's prudent to have a stash of small denomination cash that you have easy access to (100 five-dollar bills, for example). Generally when disaster strikes things revert to a cash (or barter) economy.
A single credit card, for places that have not embraced, but soon will
So do you have a separate card for places that have not embraced and never will?
... We ended up going to a nearby ATM so I could by the comics.
Here is a (funny) anecdote, a couple years ago I went to a small comic book store with my son. I hardly ever have cash on hand. When we went to checkout I asked the guy if he took credit cards, and he puffed out "not until they outlaw cash!".
"The credit card company loves people like you"
But not for the reasons you think.
They love them because credit card money is "magic" money.
Not that fiduciary money is any more real in a strict sense, but while fiduciary money can only be created by gubernamental bodies, credit card money can be created by any bank.
Using your credit card reduces the declared cash reserve needs for banks as much as 10 to 1.
Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees.
1. Go to your bank's website
2. Click on bill pay
3. Type in the billing info for your credit card
4. Click "enable e-bills"
5. Click "enable e-bill initiated autopay"
6. Click "pay in full"
7. Never worry about it again.
8. Enjoy your cash back and/or frequent flyer miles.
Hey, guess what, plenty of businesses in my neighborhood, gas stations especially, offer a discount for cash. Even when you couldn't charge more for credit, you could give a discount for cash. ...because technicalities.
Businesses on a budget in this town have charged credit and debit surcharges since the second they could - most notoriously Dell Tacos charged a ~$0.50 surcharge on swipes for a long, long time.
You might also find that, outside of big chains, lots of vendors will give you a couple of percentages off for paying cash on a large enough purchase to justify the override time at the register. They're likely paying 2.5% plus a transaction fee every time you swipe. If you're buying enough, they'll cut you a 2% break for cash.
They don't lose money on you.
They got paid 102.5% for everything you bought after the merchant's transactions fees were added.
Giving you a portion of that 2.5% back still leaves them in the black.
Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?
The merchants build the cost into the prices they charge. So what? There is nothing that I, as an individual, can do about it. So I might as well take advantage of the benefits of using a CC.
But cash also has costs for businesses, also built into prices, such as robberies and employee theft, that are much less of a problem with CC transactions.
Which is great until sometime between steps 6 and 7 the customer overspends on their credit card.
It's a great idea if you run a tight budget and have the discipline to do it. Most people would be better off financially just packing a lunch a couple extra times a month instead of eating out.
It's your life dude, but it sounds like a whole lot of documents that you could leave in the glove compartment of your car. And in much of the world, where people don't drive (often or at all) and have free medical care, progress can go on first.
I can drop my wallet onto a hard surface, from even higher than 1 metre, and it won't break. Neither will the cash inside it, ditto credit cards.
If "it's bulky, can be forgotten or lost" renders a wallet+contents unusable, then so does "I dropped my phone and it broke".
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
"This said, going cashless, if this happens, will probably be one of the strongest blows to the back-market economy. Suppressing large US banknotes would also make drug and weapons traficking a bit harder."
So what? Paper money has another very desirable property that electronic money lacks of: anonymity.
It's nobody business where and how I expend my money. Full stop.
Where I live - number of x in last 100 years:
Hurricanes: 0
Earthquakes: 0
Snowstorms: 0
Tornado: I think there's been 2-4 very minor ones with local damage only
Revolutions: 0
Military invasions: 0
Floods: 2 (again minor and localized)
Widespread power outage > 12h: 2 in last 30 yrs
I guess I can chuck the wallet!
"If I am in a car accident, I do not want the emergency responders wondering what my blood type is"
They test it on the spot, anyway.
"or if I can pay"
More civilized countries have socialized health care systems so they don't need to ask.
"This is a solution looking for a problem."
This is 100% true. Specially once you figure the unestated: we won't carry wallets... because all of us will own an iDevice, no competitors allowed.
I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s
That last 2% is what they are looking for.
Take your wallet, with whatever it is, and throw it down the stairs. Pick a nice long flight of stairs.
Now, take your smart phone with whatever protective cover you typically use and toss the phone down the same flight of stairs.
I'm guessing the wallet is a bit dirty, maybe a tad scuffed up, but the cash inside is still good and worst case a credit card is cracked, but I would bet that all the numbers on it are still perfectly legible.
I wouldn't make the same bet for the phone.
Bottom line: Wallets will always do better in a "drop test" than a smart phone.
We still have large amounts of grocery stores that still have min purchase $10 EFT due to high transaction charges.
I smell BS lies there from the shop owner being super stingy.
You'd likely be smelling your own statement then.
Merchant fees are killers for small businesses. Even at a minimum $10 per transaction a business is likely losing money on every EFTPOS purchase made.
I used to run a small business, it was not unusual for my EFTPOS costs would dwarf my staff costs. I used to sell computer hardware, so the MSF (Merchant Service Fees) were less of the transaction total costs compared to a cafe but they still hurt. Customers who paid cash or debit were brilliant (and got discounts because of it). MSF's have become a lot better since I was running my business, but they're still big enough to kill a small business.
Heres what a merchant pays:
- Monthly fees (services).
- Monthly fees (terminal).
- Per transaction fees (for debit, usually between $0.20 and $0.50).
- Per transaction fees (for credit, 1-6% depending on bank and card).
- Annual fees (yep, they charge monthly and annual fees).
So ignoring the monthly and annual fees, if you bought a $4 coffee on your credit card, $0.50 at least disappears to the bank, that's pretty much all the profit gone from the sale (and I bet you wonder why things cost so much in Australia).
People who try to force small businesses to accept cards without allowing a surcharge or minimum purchase are killing small businesses in Australia. However one of my favourite cafe's has a solution to people like you. The menu price for a coffee is $4.50 but the "secret" cash price is $4.00, it's a win-win for me and the business.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Many times I've been refused a purchase as a credit/debit/card or check was required. Hard for me to beleive but I've been there.
I find a wallet makes my butt hurt so I carry just three cards I find of importance my debit card, drivers license, and library card - nothing else is ever required.
My debit card pays for everything, everybody is set up to accept it. Cash I give to the kids :)
As for pictures I always have my cell phone which I would never use for monetary transactions, Just four days ago (Black Friday) I had thought I had lost my cell phone even went back to look for it, was in my freaking back pocket pocket, found when it made one of it's noises; boy was I ever glad - but shows how easy it would be to lose ones ability to purchase or pay for anything if dependent upon a cell phone or such.
Using your credit card reduces the declared cash reserve needs for banks as much as 10 to 1.
Banks don't care at all about that. The reserve requirement for savings accounts and CDs is 0 anyhow - only checking accounts (among consumer accounts) currently have any reserve requirements, and that's quite low.
And despite all that, bank have voluntarily deposited about $2 Trillion with the Fed, because the Fed is paying better interest on that money than T-Bills pay. Banks just aren't seeking to reduce their reserves right now, though that will change as the economy expands, I expect.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Which is great until sometime between steps 6 and 7 the customer overspends on their credit card.
It's a great idea if you run a tight budget and have the discipline to do it.
I actually know multiple people now whose budgets have been saved by using credit cards. Yes, you heard me right.
Why? Because of financial tracking software. A credit card charge gets registered -- anywhere from instantly to a day later or so -- and it immediately shows an impact on your "running balance" of available money in your accounts.
Cash? When you spend that stuff, you need to keep track of it yourself. Once you withdraw cash from an account, it goes into a "black hole" in terms of financial software. Your financial software doesn't know whether you have $5 in your wallet or $500, unless you tell it. And when you spend $5 or $500, it doesn't know until you tell it.
So, for many people -- especially younger people -- credit card (or debit card) becomes the default, since you can actually track your balances automatically. I know someone who just got into this habit of withdrawing cash from the ATM whenever her wallet got empty. Those little lunches and coffees and scones and random little purchases can add up to many thousands of dollars per year, and cash is not easy to track, unless you choose to keep your own detailed record by hand (or input it manually).
This woman's husband was going nuts looking at the bank balances draining every month, so he asked for one simple thing -- put everything on a credit card, and get overall financial balance updates daily sent to her phone. Suddenly, she saw her numbers dropping every day, and the reality of what was happening set in. Granted, a similar thing could have been achieved by just using the financial software, since her cash withdrawal habits would register, but once the software was there and giving her updates, she'd be more interested in checking in occasionally and realizing the daily latte habit was costing hundreds of dollars per month, which her credit card told her.
Of course, the couple I'm talking about had enough money to go around so they were never in danger of starving, but when it came time to move out of the apartment and buy a home and have a couple kids, they needed to rein in the spending. A credit card which could track purchases and give immediate feedback in financial tracking software was what worked.
I know other people who say the same thing, and I follow that same principle now. Credit cards are magical devices that tabulate my purchases and give me hundreds of dollars in bonus money every year. Cash is this weird thing that I usually have some of in my wallet, but I use it so rarely that it's the "funny money." The credit card registers an immediate impact to my finances -- the cash could have sat in my wallet for weeks or months, so I basically see it as just stuff that could be spent whenever.
I'm not saying this method works best for everyone. But the idea that credit cards are "funny money" that buys stuff and you never see the bad part until you get the statement just isn't true anymore. Credit cards can now be the ultimate financial tracking tool, and the means to achieve financial discipline, while cash...
Sure, cash prevents you from running your account balances below zero, but keeping your account balances above zero is only the first minimal step to financial health. You need to be monitoring what you do, trimming out things that are unnecessary or eating up excessive parts of your budget, making sure the balances in the right accounts are constantly going up, so you can do things like save for retirement, have an emergency fund, pay off other debts, etc. Credit cards can actually make that effort easier and more straightforward, rather than hinder it.
The credit card company loves people like you who evangelize the idea of using your credit card for everything and then paying it off immediately and then earning cashback on it.
Why?
The main reason they like people who pay off their cc bill every month is cash flow. For every person who makes the easy minimim paymen, you do nees some folks that pay their bills.
Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees.
Most people for some weird reason do not understand basic monetary math. Pity that. But as long as they make those easy minimum payments hey- its all good. I guess. In the end, they have less, because ten years later, they re still paying everything off. And that interest just sucks their ability to get more stuff
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's just too tempting for most people to say, "Well, this ONE month, I'll pay it late and then get that JetSki I've had my eyes on."
But don't hoist them on your shoulders as superior to those who have financial discipline. Well, sure. That's their problem. If a person doesn't have enough discipline to make money off there CC, then well, welcome to your ultimate bankruptcy.
And a lot of people have neither the discipline not the financial acumen to do that.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm swapping all my money for some gold and silver dinars.
I'm just sharing my thoughts on a message board built for that very purpose after someone else brought up the topic.
Perhaps, but your idea that financially responsible people are "evangelizing" about it is wrong.
People get pissed off at me bacause of the interest rates I get. But if you want a bad credit rating, and the increased difficulties in getting loans and higher rates, and you think I'm evangalizing about finanacial responsibility?
Can I get an AMEN?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
When they can charge merchants a 3% fee because you won't consider using cash, you can be sure your CC company fuckin' loves you.
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
So what places give you a 3 percent discount every time you pay in cash?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
How are online merchants offering free shipping without charging higher prices? UPS and FedEx don't deliver packages for free. The merchant eats the cost to get more business. Same with credit cards.
Ever get the idea that some folks here are living proof that not many understand money or credit at all?
Credit cards prompt higher sales, whether by impulse or ease. Sales will actually increase. I'm involved in a non-profit, and when we added donations by credit card, it increased contributions far far over the hit we took for taking the CC billings.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
article talks about license, cash, credit cards.... replacing the wallet... that's not going to happen. Men will carry wallets (for other stuff) and women will carry handbags (cause it's fashionable and again... other stuff).
NYT's got it wrong, again.
It's not about the wallet being replaced, but the dawn of the Global ID that we'll all have. All the disruptiveness in the valley is pointing at this solution being available in the future.
The world of Logan's Run is coming, due to the sake of convenience (your own UUID can pay, be a license, etc...) and security (can be monitored atomically). We, the people, need to make sure and demand protection laws are in place so we don't end up with a Logan's Run society. Stuff like Apple pay are ignoring that aspect and just being rushed to market (in the cover of "beta"). And don't count on the folks in DC, corporations, or rich guys being nice (foundations) making sure fair "rules and mitigation" practices are in place.
Hmm they love the transaction fees they get from retailers, that in turn make you spend more money on the item you bought. I do the same thing as OP, FWIW, but the world needs to find a way to remove CC companies from the loop, it's not working for anyone.
...because I know that if I don't charge my credit card every flipping night, it will be useless tomorrow too!
Oh wait.
-Styopa
that still sounds like you're in the early '90s, to a finn. back in my home country, I could pay for everything except the local bus fare with debit/credit card(and for the local bus there was a different nfc card). every place takes pin cards there - using mobile network connected terminals. hot dog places too.
cheques.. I vaguely remember them existing when I was a toddler.
now, here in thailand, cash goes for everything. you can buy / sell an apartment with cash. everything is cash cash cash cash. no wonder the only people I know who are paying taxes are big corporations and companies employing foreigners - and the only way I can see corruption going down is slowly moving the country to cashless society. fines shouldn't be paid with cash on the spot, wages shouldn't be paid with cash with sticky hands in the middle.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
black market doesn't necessarily mean organized crime. where he speaks of, lots of small transactions are made every day in cash and with no paper/electronic trail to avoid taxes, specially vat, mostly because people is broke. this would be very difficult without cash, but then cash isn't going away anytime soon in spain, no matter what apple, google or mastercard play. some locations even use their own unofficial currency, and even barter. this kind of tax fraud gets mostly a blind eye because it largely reponds to necessity and would be very difficult to fight anyway, and because it's hardly significant compared to enterprise/political fraud, which is rampant.
500 euro bills are a totally different issue indeed in the sphere of organized crime, from drug trafficking to politicians to football teams to you name it and back. but although spain is probably the most corrupt state in europe, the crime rates are nowhere near those of usa. it's a different game: those are no blood criminals, just high profile cheaters. i really don't see those bastards using organs or slaves as currency, they would resort to gold, lottery tickets, whatever.
Until they can incorporate my driver's license, ADA card, Chicago symphony card, corner bakery free cup o joe card, BLS/CPR card, medical insurance, Saks Off Fith More card, Sam's club card, medical flex account spending card, Bartolotta Rewards card, PADI certification card, DEA registration card, dental license, erewhon explorer card, optical insurance card, credit, debit, and ATM cards, and every other goddammed stupid card that someone forces or wants me to carry around now and in the future because they are too goddammed stupid to put all this crap onto a single memory chipped card, a payment system on a phone is just one more silly thing to have to deal with.
I would recommend having all the supplies you can anticipate ahead of time. Food, water, and keep your car fueled up as much as reasonable. Have a generator if you ever anticipate the need. The things that are in demand at those times become very short in supply and will be unavailable at any price. But money should still be kept just in case it becomes needed.
Actually that will be so convenient! I keep forgetting to plug in my wallet, and it is always running out of power just when I need to make a purchase.
I use the Capital One Quicksilver card in exactly the same way...1.5% cash back on all purchases. I pay it off every Friday and have never paid interest. I think they must make their money on the of the transaction fee they charge vendors.
It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost.
Unless you have your Apple iPhone or iPad implanted into your body, it can be forgotten or lost as well.
I find it surprising that people think credit cards don't hurt you.
I'll dumb it down for everyone.
When you go to the grocery store and shop, and then ring out - the credit card company makes money off of your purchase.
If you use cash, they make you pay the same price since the credit card companies hate the minimum purchase amount signs to use credit cards.
The credit card companies owners are the top 1% - they make craploads of money since most people don't understand that if they used cash instead of credit cards - they could save money since everywhere they shopped wouldn't have to pay for credit card fees.
lastly, that bit they give you for "cash back" is just an incentive to keep paying the higher premiums so the one percenters can keep having fat pay checks.
THEY WANT A CREDIT CARD LIFESTYLE - that will keep prices higher than they should be, and keep using you as the bottom feeder to promote it.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
In other words, you can't see forest for the trees in the finance ABC, yet you claim that you have superior understanding of controlling your money flow.
The money they "give back to you", it the money that seller charges from you when you make the initial purchase. Your purchase costs you more than it should have cost you because of the administrative costs of the mechanic you describe, putting you the payer in to net negative.
Which is great until sometime between steps 6 and 7 the customer overspends on their credit card.
That's my wife and I. I still have credit cards, but we use prepaid cards as our budgeting tool. When the money on the card is gone, oh well - wait 'till next week. It's kind of like the old "envelope budgeting" but simpler.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You might not like this answer, but I recognize that they are making a few percent and I'm cool with it. It is a couple of things to me:
1. Convenient. I can track my spending. I can pay for things online. I don't have to constantly hit the ATM. If I'm short a few bucks, they spot me the money without me having to hit up friends, family, or take out a loan.
2. Insurance - if I lose my wallet or I'm robbed, I don't lose any money.
Am I getting my money's worth? I think so. Compare to a state sales tax, for instance.
The stores get something, too - I used to work retail and I hated doing the cash drops. You feel like such a target. Dealing with cash is not zero-cost or zero-risk. Employee theft, counterfeit bills, mistakes, robbery, change, transaction times, etc...
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Think about how much you spend per year. Think about the percent you pay in credit card fees. Take that amount and multiply it over 50 years and just think what you could do with that amount if it had gained interest before you retired.
And all it would take is a bit of time on your part to use cash and monitor your bank account.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
The processing contracts specifically allow gas stations an exemption, but only for the gas.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I wouldn't want to get hurt and not have my medical insurance card or ID, when my phone battery happens to be dead.
And if he keeps his driver's license in the car glove compartment, 90% of the time he doesn't need to carry that, either.
Very bad idea - if someone breaks into your car they know (a) you are not at home, (b) may have your garage door opener, and (c) thanks you your idea know where you live.
Do not keep anything with a home address in your car.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The last time I checked, my wallet doesn't become useless if I don't plug it in after 24 hours. When they come up with a killer battery, then this may catch on with everyone.
Despite a lifetime of gadget-loving, I'm a smartphone holdout. (My employer pays for my cell, and it's dumb. ) But what I really note about smartphones is they're quite heavy, most of the volume must be battery - and they still need nightly charging.
The movie "No Country for Old Men" made an impression on me that cash weighs something - that $2M was 50lb, even in hundreds. It seems to me the weight of a smartphone, even just in a mix of 5's 10's and 20's, is the weight of more cash than I spend in a week. How many bills is the weight of, say, an iPhone 5 equal to?
I wonder if those of us who have only a 3-oz DumbPhone now will find our pockets heavier or lighter after we are compelled to get an iPhone 9 to buy lunch.
I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s and never have more than a few dollars on me at any given time.. I put everything on a credit card and write one check a month to pay for everything. And now I don't even have to write a check, I just go online and make a payment straight out of my bank account to the credit card company. And, because I pay everything off every month it costs me nothing, and, since I'm using a 'cash back' credit card, I get a check for $50 every few months. It's not much but it's free money that I didn't have before. I'm sure the credit card company hates people like me, but fuck'em.
Yes, you clearly a genius gaming the system. It's not like your credit card company is charging the merchants a percentage of the transaction, driving up the actual price you pay (next time you buy gas, ask the attendant if there is a different price if you pay cash). They also aren't tracking, logging, and selling to the highest bigger all of your purchases, purchase locations, etc. So keep cashing those $50 checks while smugly contemplating how much smarter you are than everyone else.
I used to run a small business, it was not unusual for my EFTPOS costs would dwarf my staff costs.
Parent makes an excellent / informed list of costs - thank you! For those with small businesses - try a Square device. Less than $100 for the initial investment in hardware, 2.75% per transaction. Plenty of alternatives if you don't like Square.
The coffee itself costs the store about 50-75 cents, the transaction fees another 50 cents, and the staff/store upkeep are considered a fixed cost, so it doesn't factor in. The store still makes nearly $3 on your $4 coffee.
I wish I still had some mod point to mod you up...
Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
Stores must love you when you pay a 1$ bread with a credit card and most of it stays in the pocket of the CC company...
Non-Linux Penguins ?
I decided to test this rumour that a cashless world is coming; I asked the first person on the street corner for their thoughts.
Charlene said " unh-uh honey, if you got no cash, you ain't cummin. This girl wants it green and in her hand. What you talking about cashless society?"
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Think about the percent you pay in credit card fees.
Many credit cards charge NO annual fee. Those that do, usually provide airline miles or cash back, and if you use a single card for most of your purchases, the value of these will easily exceed the annual fee.
Take that amount and multiply it over 50 years and just think what you could do with that amount if it had gained interest before you retired.
I have done the math, and I come out WAY ahead by using a CC. I save money. I save the hassle of tracking cash transactions. I am less of a target for crime.
I am truly shocked by anyone from the security conscious world of Slashdot would do such a think such as push a cashless society.
The advantage to cash and coin is that you don't have a paper trail to follow everything you do. I have no problem putting purchases on a credit card, but there are ways around this to minimize your digital footprint.
Awesome that you can do what you choose to, but some of use do not want our spending dollars to serve as directing advertizing for our next purchase.
Place something witty here
Be it 2, 5 or 26 euros I always prefer to pay cash, especially if it's to "real people" rather than supermarkets and other huge "machines". Drawing cash at the ATM is free for me (I can even use any brand of ATM) and I like giving 50 euro-cent coins to bums so they're around half way to getting a beer or bread.
So : transactions costs are always free to me (except debit card's monthly fee) but if I use cash the shopkeeper, haircutter, snack merchant etc. gets more money, and I can get change which then enables me other transactions.
Go to a vegetable stall at an open air market : it's not even wired to electricity. Possible to have a small system on battery with 3G modem but it's surely uneconomical to lease and what if the merchant never used an iphone or an android?, how to explain a consumer what he should do, what if there's malware etc. Who can carry a few groceries but can't be arsed to carry a low volume of coins and bills?
And all it would take is a bit of time on your part to use cash and monitor your bank account.
No, "all" that it would take is for me to convince the rest of the population to also stop using their cards, because the transaction cost is already baked-in.
I spend roughly $200/week on "pocket money". Groceries mostly, but also meals out, dry cleaning, sundries, clothes, etc. I know this because I budget fairly tightly. That's roughly $10,000/year, and between $100-200 in additional costs due to transaction fees. Over 50 years that is $10,000 using the larger number. Meh. I'll pay $100,000 in car insurance over the same period, and that doesn't save me from having to take "a bit of time... to use cash and monitor" my bank account.
And finally, there is one thing you might not have considered - street robberies might pick up if everyone started carrying around more cash. Right now someone who robbed me would get $3. I've seen this happen in "real life". When I was in college the neighboring school was Ivy League, and those students developed a reputation for carrying a large amount of cash (> $100). Criminals would come into our city from surrounding cities to mug students, because of this reputation. The problem solved itself when we all stopped carrying cash.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
That's the card I used to use for business expenses. Claim it back from the company and pocket the 1.5%. I've changed jobs and no longer use expenses much so I cut the card up.
Just as an aside - it's also worth joining hotel "clubs" and picking up free weekends away which are untaxable too.
Credit card companies charge merchants somewhere between 1-3% per transaction. Even if you pay your bill every month, they still get a nice cut. The more you spend, the more they make.
I have no idea why you think they would "hate you".
MABASPLOOM!
No, they love people like you. They get 2% of everything you spend!
I don't respond to AC's.
except you don't have near the protection as you do with a CC
Being able to dispute payments, protection from fraud/stolen card is worth a couple percentage points to me
I also get 1.5% cash back (2% gas/groceries) .
Sure if everybody stopped using a credit card theoretically prices should go down 2-3%, but the thing is everyone wont. So in the meantime Ill reap the 1.5% cashback reward, thank you very much.
I am truly shocked by anyone from the security conscious world of Slashdot would do such a think such as push a cashless society.
The advantage to cash and coin is that you don't have a paper trail to follow everything you do.
I'm not certain exactly what security risk that is. Paper trails are essentially neutral - they might convict you, or they might confirm an alibi.
Awesome that you can do what you choose to, but some of use do not want our spending dollars to serve as directing advertizing for our next purchase.
Your fear might have some purpose if for some reason it was both true, and somehow bad. For what It's worth, most of the advertising I get, I've asked for. Ebay favorite sellers, "newsletters" from folks I've bought off of - and opted into. A cruiseline sends me emails about specials.
In addition, I have an electronic and paper record because I want one. I have a card that gives me a gas discount, and is used only for that. I have a general purpose credit card that I live off of, I have two home expense cards.
Then every month, I get itemized statements. I know exactly what I spend for fuel, general expenses, and home maintenance. And they do it for me for free - some even pay me a little - around 600 to a thousand a year.
Those bastards. Providing me with a fine budget tool.
Careful with your line of reasoning, you'll end up as a doomsday prepper. Digging rabbit holes in the woods of Idaho so you'll survive the Mayan apocalypse, and bartering sheep and geese for barley at 3 in the morning (guvmint eyes are everywhere) at gunpoint - because your neighbors might be spies. Can't be too careful you know.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
now, here in thailand, cash goes for everything. you can buy / sell an apartment with cash. everything is cash cash cash cash.
Sounds similar to the Marshal Islands. A relative of mine worked and lived there for several years and when first moved there went with a sail boat. When she left she sold here boat (a 50 footer) and was paid in the traditional way for a boat, a few grocery bags full of US $20 bills. This was common enough that the teller at the bank stated "Looks like you sold your boat" when she went to deposit the money.
Time to offend someone
Why? Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees.
Not really.
My wife works for a credit card issuer. For the sake of this discussion, we can divide credit card customers into two buckets: "revolvers" (those who revolve a balance each month) and "transactors" (those who use their cards only for their personal convenience when doing retail transactions). Issuers make the bulk of their profits by borrowing money at a low interest rate and lending it out to revolvers at a higher interest rate. They make a lot from fees too, but they try to avoid that now because charging a bunch of fees seems to antagonize their many and various regulators.
But transactors help the bottom line, too. While it's true that they bring in a bit of revenue via interchange payments (the payments that merchants make for accepting credit cards), that doesn't really lead to any profit for the issuer after they get through paying the rewards, sending statements, and just general marginal costs per customer. That's basically break-even. Where the issuers make their money on transactors is that they lower the overall risk of the issuer's portfolio and allow the issuer to borrow funds at a lower interest rate.
So that is the reason that issuers love "transactors". They increase profits by lowering the issuer's cost of funds.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
As far as I am from a doomsday preparation fan, I tend to take security seriously. You might say that security is in my job title, which is accurate. Yes, you can have your tools provided by online resources, but depending on your paranoia level, you can also create an online profile which can be tracked with ease.
Perhaps you want to be stalked, that's fine. We live in a society were fewer people value privacy. While I do enjoy the openness of open source as well as knowledge, I still hold a few things sacred and try to keep them to myself. Helps reduce the chance of identity theft and security breaches.
TNO tends to be a nice practice from time to time.
Place something witty here
Back some time ago a bunch of merchants won a lawsuit challenging Visa/Mastercard rules, and as a result merchants are now allowed to charge people more for using a credit card instead of paying cash.. Well guess what, I have yet to encounter one single merchant doing that. They have no choice. Once again, good old fashioned competition. If they charge more for using a credit card, they will lose business to competitors who don't.
Near me there is a gas station that charges fully 10 cents less per gallon if the buyer uses cash. Their credit card price is competitive with other stations in the area. So it shows just how much the consumer ends up paying for using credit cards.
Credit also pushes up prices in general, since you can buy higher priced items if you can pay them off over time. If people had to actually save up the cash to make large purchases it would delay the purchases and put downward pressure on prices.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Yet even in places where shops are allowed to pass on the cost of credit card use to their customers few actually do so.
If you are going to have to pay a price with credit card fees built in may as well take the benefits from using the credit card.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
There will be a stunning legal effect if cash is not the method of exchange. The rich will continue to be able to lead criminal lives with very little chance of being caught. But low level criminals will be swept up like never before. The thief with cash from stolen bicycles will not be able to spend his money as he can not verify his money intake. Even for organized crime it will create big problems as the lesser players that the mob depends upon will not be able to explain their income. Even the store owner who pays a bit of protection will become historic as with electronic money the books will never add up. In essence if the exact crime can not be proven the IRS would have people by the short hairs every time. Even the migrant farm workers as well as their employers could be swept up with great ease as electronic money will be unavoidable. Yet there are places such as New jersey where crime may be essential in the lives of most people as the state is known to be so corrupt that organized crime is actually a moderater for governmental and business corruption.
Last Time I checked, local law, employment rules and other things (like high theft) will cause ID checks. I look that it this way, both the store and the customer have to choices. To shop or not to. Oh and for those of you who have need worked in retail or have no friends that did. The top things they tell you in the regional (like frys) and below stores is Check ID for large purchases (Xbox, computer etc). Top problems: Theft, people opening the boxes because they are: afraid its not all in there, they can't conceptualize what it looks like from the box photo or theft. ;) (promise its the only time)
So don't open a box or package you haven't paid for without a employee beside you help you. Why? Because you know as well as I do that we don't buy those busted up boxes anyway.
AS for the idiocy of the not having a wallet, (and I am surprised that no one has said it yet) Is appleplay the mark of the beast?
Seriously, I don't see the wallet ever going away anymore than I see women's purses going away. We will always need something independant of the chip, smartphone etc to verify us and there will always be areas that have no wifi, cell service who will only accept cash or put minimum charges because they can't afford it.
Cash brings me enjoyable transactions and frees me from POS terminals, paperwork hassles. I increasingly find that people are patient and courteous while systems are impatient and rude. I paid a neighbor kid $20 cash to shovel a small driveway. I try to purchase my non-tech items used, typically from real people that genuinely appreciate the cash. I paid $150 cash for a 49cc scooter that runs but needs a new battery, $0.25 for a paperback to go in my airline carry-on, $2 for a 16-drawer organizer box nearly full of screws, washers, wire nuts and crimp-on connectors for twisted pair. I doubt the neighbor kids or garage sale lady would have taken anything other than cash.
I try to avoid big-box stores but needed to go to big hardware store get some specific-sized screws to fit the holes in my 19-inch rack to finish a project before the end of the day. It didn't want to swipe my corporate credit card and trigger a bunch of process for a few lousy screws. By spending about $2 cash, I saved me the hassle of filing out an expense report and saved my employer ~$25/hr for each person that would have had to touch the report and approve re-imbursing me with a corporate check for less than $2.
I have another rant on /. about the evils of using banks for this purpose. The bottom line is a bank is like a surly chaffeur, you give it posession of something you value with some limited authority to use it, and it gives you a lot of attitude, refuses to do what you ask with your possession and every once in a while disappears with your stuff entirely and requires its insuring authority to provide some limited financial restitution.
All this because physical currency has a lot of inherent dangers to use. It seems like the same entity that issues physical currency would offer a 1:1 with electronic currency, the only (solved) problem is how to offer the anonymity that said entity is reluctant to offer.
Cash, How else are you are supposed to bribe slippery government officials. They can't exactly covertly palm a credit card, charge $50 and slyly give it back! No one takes a check slipped in the pocket seriously. Besides, the best part of bribery, is no paper trail.
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
A small business might be paying 2.5%, but a large, multiple state grocery store isn't. There's certainly no way they are paying 5%, which is my cash back reward for groceries.
I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of loss leaders, so why is it hard to believe credit card companies lose money on some customers in the hopes that on average they'll make more money?
It's not stupid. You just seem to have it in your head that competition in one sphere implies increased choices in all spheres.
Consider a company with a monopoly on a good with fairly inelastic demand and no reasonable substitutions -- for instance, the world's supply of a critical raw material needed for the only known cure to a horrific disease. They can charge almost whatever they want -- hence they'll tend to increase prices. The only downward pressures are the actual amount of money available to their clients, monopoly maintenance, preventing regulation being imposed upon them, and ethical choices.
Now magically increase the competition. The former monopoly company has far less choice in their pricing.
They'll know where you live anyways. In the US, at least, you're required to keep your car's current registration card in the vehicle
I keep that in my wallet also, along with insurance.
DO NOT KEEP ADDRESSES IN YOUR CAR.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If the clerk is too stupid I don't want them dealing with cash, I absolutely want them dealing with something with an electronic record.
I pay cash for things when there is a power outage or the Internet is down. Those things are very, very rare. It last happened last week, but the time before that was years before.
Perhaps he should get out of his cloud, and move about in the RW. Say, talk to people who not only don't own an iPhone, but are lucky to have phone service, becasuse they're earning minium wage, or near it, and are trying to pay their rent, food and utilities. Or look at all the secuirty breaches (hell, my wife was talking about a restaurant that's a spin-off of PC Chang, and my instant reaction was that if we went, we'd pay cash, given the long-term breach that Krebs revealed months ago). Or folks who actually give a shit about being tracked every minute of every day....
mark, who wouldn't touch an Apple, disliking would-be monopolies
I work at an property and casualty insurance company out on a rock. Our president has lunches once a month and all the employees rotate through, he answers questions, people mingle, etc.
I went as a fill in this month and one of the questions is whether our firm would issue digital ID cards on smartphones, and he said we were looking into it...
I was shaking my head slightly and he looked at me and asked with a smile, "So what is the IT guy's opinion?"
I smiled and replied, "Cool tech, but personally, I would never hand my phone to a member of law enforcement without a warrant."
He replied, "I can see your point."
So sure, while I can agree that having some sort of digital something that keeps secure digital records that are public record anyway to provide to law enforcement upon request, AND a smartphone, is certainly better than a wallet full of paper and plastic cards AND a smartphone.
But ONLY a smartphone, or any single device, with my personal and what likes to be considered private data as well, I don't think so....
the barista fumbled with the card for a few swipes, unplugged and replugged the card swipy thingy and then after a few more swipes and apologies, much as one would whack a misbehaving laundry machine with broom a bit, the magic went through. I paid with cash. I guess a few of the vendors at the farmer's market also take those swipy thingies as well (slowly...connection? no?).
The tight couplings to the power system and lord knows what all else is doubtless a Normal Accident waiting to happen, but the power is always on, packets always flow, and the data centers always run, right? — resilient. That's the word I'm looking for.
Credit card companies charge retailers which pass the fees onto their customers. So everyone pays for credit cards whether they want to or not and, if you ask any independent retailer, those fees are not reasonable. If you can, use a debit card or cash. They're cheaper for retailers and help local, small businesses (who can't negotiate bulk discounts from creadit card companies and so end up effectively subsidising the big chain stores' fees). Also, the money you spend locally, as opposed to big chain store corporations who offshore all their profits and tax liabilities, stays locally and contributes to the local economy. It's the ethical thing to do.
Bankers want a cashless society = yet more money for them to cream off for doing nothing. Maybe governments want a cashless society = yet more control for them.
But any sane citizen does not want to see a cashless society. People who want to see a cashless society are either shills, or total idiots who haven't thought it through.
There are credit card processors today that have a fee structure to take micropayments into account.
Paypal, for instance, charges 5% + 5 cents if that works out to be less than their normal fee.
Amazon Payments used to have the information publicly visible, but now you have to contact sales, but from what I recall it used to be 5% + 5 cents as well.
So your $1 bread will have about $0.10 in fees.
I think there's a lot of overlap is the Venn diagram of security minded slashdot enthusiasts and those familiar with the uses of bit coin.
This signature is false.
Credit card fees affect my purchases whether I use my credit card or cash, since they usually aren't waived for cash (and there are expenses and risks in handling cash). If that cereal is $3.85, and it would be $3.73 without the credit card charge, I'm not going to save twelve cents by paying cash. Therefore, it makes sense for me to pay in the most convenient, safe, and available way.
Moreover, I get real benefits because I use my credit card. If I normally paid cash, I'd have to have cash on me whenever I wanted to buy something, I'd be a better target for muggers, and I'd have to keep track of my expenses myself.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You have gas stations with attendants?
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Ayn Rand would be proud of you.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
People get pissed off at me bacause of the interest rates I get
More likely they get pissed off at you going on and on about the fucking interest rates you get because of your financial responsibility, when they're trying to talk about work, or the weather.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s and never have more than a few dollars on me at any given time
If you live somewhere where a natural disaster is a possibility (earthquake / hurricane / tornado) it's prudent to have a stash of small denomination cash that you have easy access to (100 five-dollar bills, for example). Generally when disaster strikes things revert to a cash (or barter) economy.
That would only apply to a relatively minor natural disaster, presumably one which took out power so that credit cards didn't work?
In most civilised countries, minor power outages last for less than a day. Anything more than that, and you're probably talking about a disaster where you're grateful for anything you can scavange and/or the government will be stepping in to provide emergency shelter/food/water, where you few hundred in cash won't help at all.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Ok, some of them are, but theft isn't. I couldget robbed in an ally, lost my wallet, etc. My cash is gone, my credit card is protected.
Either way, for me that couple percent is well worth the convenience, protection, and other perks (such as free car rental insurance, double manufacturer warranty, 1.5% cash back, free credit monitoring) all for no annual fees. Just the free credit monitoring itself has a retail value of $10-15 / month
People get pissed off at me bacause of the interest rates I get
More likely they get pissed off at you going on and on about the fucking interest rates you get because of your financial responsibility, when they're trying to talk about work, or the weather.
I guess that could be a scenario, but no, I only bring it up when they bitch about how much they are in debt, or we discuss money.
When I'm asked "How do you do it?" I tell them.
They get pissed because that isn't what they wanted to hear. It's more along the lines of "You don't even need the money like I do. Why should you get the lowest rates".
I guess they figure they should get lower interest rates because they are dealing in bulk?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"Cash" money should be obsolete in the future, and likely will be. Counterfeiting is one reason why... http://www.newser.com/story/19...
Then the problem has nothing to do with the payment method.
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?