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Ask Slashdot: Are Any Certifications Worth Going For?
An anonymous reader writes: I am an IT professional in my 30s and have had some form if IT employment for the last 15 years. I've worked my way from technical support to IS manager, but my career seems to have stalled. I have a fancy 4-year degree in Information Systems (I was never much of a programmer) from an actual college, and a good deal of real-world experience combined with reading the odd technical book here and there to keep abreast of what's going on in the world of tech, but what I don't have is any certifications. None.
When I was a poor student fresh from college, I decided that certifications were a waste of money, since the jobs I was applying for at the time didn't care about them, and the tests were several hundred dollars each. Now, it seems most jobs I see listed want some certifications, and I suspect HR systems are weeding out resumes that don't have the correct alchemical formula of certifications.
So my question is: are any certifications now worth it? If so, where do I start? I will probably stick to the track I'm on (I'm better at managing than developing). Going to classes might be an option, but I'd prefer to be able to self-study if possible to work around being on-call constantly (and, to be blunt, classes are expensive). I don't want to stump up for a class only to find out I don't actually like the class or the material or the certification isn't actually what I thought it was.
When I was a poor student fresh from college, I decided that certifications were a waste of money, since the jobs I was applying for at the time didn't care about them, and the tests were several hundred dollars each. Now, it seems most jobs I see listed want some certifications, and I suspect HR systems are weeding out resumes that don't have the correct alchemical formula of certifications.
So my question is: are any certifications now worth it? If so, where do I start? I will probably stick to the track I'm on (I'm better at managing than developing). Going to classes might be an option, but I'd prefer to be able to self-study if possible to work around being on-call constantly (and, to be blunt, classes are expensive). I don't want to stump up for a class only to find out I don't actually like the class or the material or the certification isn't actually what I thought it was.
breaking news
I would argue that certs with practicals (CCIE, JNCIE, RHCE, etc) tend to hold their value much better than those that can simply be gotten by taking tests.
For example, I'm in the IT security field, and a CISSP does carry a good bit of weight.
I've also worked in virtualization, and have a VCP5 certification...I can tell you it might or might not mean something to a prospective employer, but I can damned sure tell when I'm talking about the workings of a particular client's virtual infrastructure whether their people are VCPs.
Just lie about what certs you have, in 12 years I've never had a single company ever ask me for proof of any of my dozens of certs.
If you learn about security, a CISSP opens many doors. But I cannot say what it takes for general IT management; possibly a Project Management certification would help, but I don't know for sure.
If you phrase the question like that, I suppose certifications aren't worth it, because it sounds like the only reason for you to pursue them is to proof something to somebody else.
However if what you mean to ask is whether continued education is worth it, then yes, it most definitely is and the benefits will far outweigh the costs of an exam or even the materials.
If you are serious about infosec certifications, check out GIAC (http://www.giac.org) . The certs are very applied and test practical knowledge (e.g. they are open book... no need to test how well you can memorize stuff). CISSP is good to get you started in the field.
---- join dshield.org Distributed Intrusion Detec
Not meaning this in a bad way. I have been fully in IT for 15 years. I don't hold many certs and the ones I do were forced upon me by management. However I am the lead on my team and have to help out most of the rest of the team with mundane tasks. So what I'm trying to say is if you need them to seek a new employer, they might be valuable. If you have a good resume them maybe you don't need them. If you want to progress in your current workplace then start making things better and show your value to your peers.
Leave IT and answer your true calling. Your soul knows what that is. Good day.
You are already moving in that direction and admittedly not a programmer. It is basically a paper chase not too far removed from a cert but non-revocable. You will have an IS degree + years of experience + an MBA. There s a large amount of career potential in that.
But stop hanging out at /., instead lurk around at CO.com and datamation.com to ensure you know all the latest trends.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
A different question - I had submitted this to 'Ask Slashdot', but obviously wasn't worth a subject on its own, so I'll post it here.
I have been studying IPv6 independently for a while now, and am looking at making it my new career. Since I don't have a work history in networking (and only have an N+ certification to even begin to claim qualification), it looks like the only way to do it would be to get an IPv6 certification. Therein lies the question: which certifications would be most likely to advance a career in IPv6? I looked at CCNA a while back, but IPv6 is just briefly touched by it in a single chapter. However, my goal is to get something that will put me in a position to help organizations transition to IPv6 — be it a dual-stack strategy or a migration to IPv6 only. So what, in your experience, is the best way to go about it?
Dear god please, we already have enough of you and I don't think I can take another.
Evening, Soulskill! I feel your pain. I'm in the exact same boat as you and have the exact same question. Hope to hear some valid feedback on this subject, as well!
Since it sounds like you aren't really technical anymore and don't have a desire to be technical, then I wouldn't recommend any of the technical certifications (RHCE, etc). Those are going to get you job offers for things you don't want to do. You should probably look for something more along the lines of Project Management Professional (PMP) certification, or something of that ilk. That will really help you manage projects and it probably looks good on a resume. Just my 2 cents.
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
I interviewed someone with certifications. They had no skill.
I work in an office with no certifications.
Certifications might get you a raise, might not, averages on not. Won't get you a job. Averages on won't.
It might get you past the HR filter. But the best way to get past the HR filter is know someone. Good old fashioned networking.
If you have a job, get a cert and get a raise. If you have nothing else to do, get a cert and possibly get past the HR filter. But be prepared for the non-cert questions. Cos those are what matters.
No, not even a BS. Especially in a subject like English, where you'd surely be taught that ending a sentence in a preposition is bad. Nobody cares. We get what you mean. The so called STEM degrees might still be worth it; but those aren't the "certs" that most people think of. In many shops, the fact that somebody has a cert is actually a negative. It says, "I was too out of touch with the field to know that certs are worthless. I saw some ad for some training on late night TV and it sounded like a way out of the basement.".
To see if said certs on a resume were actually earned?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
What do you mean by stalled?
I have an 18 years career in IT and I've never needed them even once to get hired
for employment.
One time everybody working on a project needed to be DB/2 certified. My company
handled it in that we got a trainer for two days and he coached us through the exam. That
was in the 90s still when certifications were starting to come out so at a point in time
when these things were starting to get hyped. Then the only other time I had to have
certifications was when I was giving classes. I have a MySQL 5.x Professional and
DBA certification sometime back in 2006.. to coach other people through that cert.
Although I have never actually worked with Windows (I have worked with open-source tech
all my life) most of all life, I have given classes on Active Directory and
Sharepoint. But I was never certified in any of that and never jumped through the hoops to
actually become a "MCT" (Microsoft Certified Trainer). I am sure someone somewhere will
upset over this but figure out which court to sue me in first. Yeah this time around I
didn't even bother with getting certified to do the classes. (Before you whine about me being
a bad teacher, I take pride in my teaching. I prepare every class according to the manual
and I make damn sure all examples work the way they are supposed to. Plus I got good
feedback scores from the participants and so I got invited back for years to do these classes).
Anyhow bottom line, the only time I needed a certification was once in the 90s for
some bs customer who thought it would be neat if people who worked on their project
were certified and then when I got in on the training + certification action myself as
a trainer and I am not sure I really needed the MySQL thing either.
I have never otherwise in a job interview been asked if I am certified and I have never
brought it up either on my resumes and I think it is just downright fraud perpetrated
on the naive.
Maybe if you went for some really tough thing like Oracle's top-tier DBA
certification or the Cisco something or other where you actually have to appear in person
and go through an 8 hour hands-on examination marathon. That might impress me a bit
but a.) I hear it's expensive and b.) I've never found I had to go through that. If your
resume says you are a Certified XYZ Engineer I am not going to hold it against you but
I would wish you had read my rant here before you went and wasted your time and money
on it. It's not going to impress me.
Your real certification is when I look at you, when we get down to business during the ;-).
interview. I will have a look at your previous jobs and I am the guy who if you're saying you
worked with XYZ years ago and I happened to do that too, I am going to ask you a few questions
about that depending how much I still remember myself
Take care and invest your money but above all your time wisely.
If you get an MCP, all it means is that your daddy decided to spoon-feed you the answers in an attempt to prove his intellectual superiority by proxy.
tl;dr: Don't get an MCP.
My company, which is otherwise one of the best places you are ever likely to work, requires all employees to take and pass at least the SalesForce Developers cert. They do pay for it, but it's probably a big advantage to have it before applying.
No.
For you profile, ITIL certification may be worth looking at. It gives knowledge essential for managing large IS departments, implementations, and data centres. It may not be as glamorous as PMP, but is essential part of managing IT for large companies. It is still a rare certification so it may actually be worth it. Being an IS manager you may appreciate many sections of the standard and contrast it with the way of doing things in your previous jobs.
Who wants to work for a bunch of clowns who rely on certification to hire people? It is a clear sign the HR guys don't have a clue about skills and competences and decided to outsource the job to learn about it. So, seriously, do you believe such working environment can be of any value? Do you believe your skills will really be recognized?
Achille Talon
Hop!
What you learn in the program will be useful, because you will then speak "finance speak". In most companies, finance runs the show, because, after all, they're in business to make money (or at least, not lose money). Whether you are in a finance position or not, knowing what it means is valuable as a manager. You're not going to be doing T accounts or computing EBITDA, but you'd better know what they are and why they're being done.
I can't even count the number of leaf nodes or managers who have no idea why "corporate" is issuing the edicts they do, but if you have even a smattering of finance knowledge, it's obvious.
Unless you're contemplating seeking a job at a high end firm, nobody will care where you got your MBA, nor what your GPA was. It's the fact that you can talk the talk and walk the walk that counts, more than the stretched and hammered sheepskin on the wall. Except for HR.. they need to see that caprine epidermis. But *they* do not care if it was from Wharton, Thunderbird, Kellogg or from podunk college. It's just to get past the filter.
It doesn't sound like you are a in the trenches programmer / admin so, why not take the strengths that you have (higher level technical ability and management) and work toward becoming a business process person. Being able to speak tech and business is quite valuable. Six Sigma / Lean are quite popular these days in organizations looking to become more efficient in their process then support the process with technology systems if appropriate. PMM is some sort of Project Management Methodology Certification, don't know much about it, but it seems popular in tech management circles.
It looks like you want to continue on the management track. In that case, your best best is to get an MBA. Yes, it's difficult and expensive but you might be able to get your employer to pay for at least part of it. I think that certifications are generally better for hands-on types. As a manager you're not likely to get much of that. If you just want to nibble around the edges in the technology then look at taking some of the free online courses. You won't get degree or any course credit out of it but it will give you an exposure to it.
I strongly suggest getting an FBI badge (Federal Boobie Inspector).
The multiple guess tests show no practical application for knowledge. I have met plenty of people with certifications that are worthless, and the people with them were just as useless.. sometimes with dozens of these tests. These people were duped into spending tons of cash to get these certificates and had no practical knowledge. Knowing how to enter a netmask in someone's GUI does not mean you understand what a netmask is, or what a broadcast address is, or how to calculate either from the other.
RHCE, CEH, etc.. require practical knowledge. Having work experience can be, and usually is, enough to compensate for the lack of a certificate. The more experience you have the less essential a certification is. I have been in the business for nearly 3 decades, and quite honestly I'm never asked about certificates. Go back even 15 years and people did ask, and I did have some certificates. Today, I'm never asked and have a steady stream of requests to review job offers and even suggest candidates.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
They are a waste of time
...the ones mentioned in the job postings you want to apply for. As for real world value (outside of getting your resume past a text filter) most have very little. The big practical certs mentioned in other comments in here are the exceptions but the vast majority are just extra revenue for the vendors.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
...are the upper end Cisco certs.
All the other stuff is just fluff, and in my book, are considered tiebreakers.
IT really depends on experience.
I always assume someone takes the tests for these things there is too much fraud and not enough trusted signing Auth to make anythign legit that is not accredited - thus a University Degree is best course.
As for best before date: It's a lie, an assumption and actually against the law in Canada :)
Don't know the tech , whats your f'in problem - pirate bay - grab some stolen books, videos and get coding on your own. If you do not, then you have a best before date based on your old skills and not because of age.
An MBA is a vehicle to convince other people that have MBAs that you believe that an MBA is necessary to work with other people that have MBAs that share in the misguided notion that having an MBA qualifies you to manage a business. Really, it is a ticket into a network of folks that believe that shortcuts and not actual work create a business.
Most certifications are like MBAs- except that they are shortcuts for HR resume screens, who use them as an easy filter and to avoid accountability that the people that they let through are qualified... "these applicants are CERTIFIED!" ... If you have the experience and you know someone, you will get the job, if not, you're in the pool of "everyone else" that has a certification. The most important factor in getting a job is networking.
Some things can be learned, but cannot be taught.
Abilities and skills can be learned, attitudes cannot, or are much more difficult to learn.
Disregarding whether a certification is worth it in terms of skill, at least it shows a willingness to continue learning. At the very least, this will tip the balance in your favour when being compared with others without a certification.
That won't work. I did it. Getting a MBA will not automatically get you into management or into the business side.
What will happen is that after 2+ years and a ton of money, you'll be back to doing what you were doing but with very expensive letters after your name - that no one in technology really cares about. I went to a top 40 school - not good enough for a lucrative consulting gigs like the Harvard guys get.
What I advise people who ask is first move into the business side or leadership roles - like a tech lead.
And keep moving towards management - many companies have that kind of career path.
As far as the MBA. Only get it if you really need it to get a job or to keep your job. And ideally have your company pay for it and allow for you to take time to take classes, work on projects, and study during business hours and even on company time.
Then there's this advice I received from a senior VP of a very large job site (via a common friend who forwarded his email to me): "MBA degrees are worthless."
Shit. Too late.
Go to Toastmasters and get a CC ("Competent Communicator") or any of theit further awards. It'll teach you how to present and interact with others in a professional scenario.
Pick a karate school you like and get a black belt. It'll teach you discipline and focus, and help you keep your health as you get older.
Join the SCA and work yourself up to becoming a knight. If you take it seriously it'll teach you honor and integrity.
Take first aid, CPR, and EMT training. Take some survival courses.
Take MIT courses from edX or Coursera for the certificate and grade.
I'm your same age cohort, same specialization, same years of experience, only I have no degree and I stayed out of management.
Certifications are for the inexperienced. My utter lack of credentials combined with my long history of being well-paid to do the work IS my meta-certification, if you get what I am saying.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
I am currently a manager and have been one several times in the past, but prefer to be an engineer and have been that many times in the past. I like getting my fingers dirty. I decided to get my PE after 15 years away from school - it's already differentiated me from others, even though it's a pretty easy exam. It seems that other people are afraid of the effort required to make the effort to get certs, degrees, qualifications, etc. They don't want to do the effort, so they denigrate anyone who attempts. Fuck them. These accomplishments are all remarkable in their own ways and help to set you apart during the HR drone process which just looks for metrics to differentiate.
Anything that shows that you've been willing to take on additional responsibility and liability for your performance is a net positive, as far as I'm concerned. Once your resume/CV has made it past the HR worker bees the thing that I'd be looking for is willingness and desire to take responsibility for yours and others' actions, ability to manage expectations (mine and others), abilities that my group doesn't already have, problem solving in clever, novel and ethical ways, the capacity to agree and hold to a contract (i.e., you and I agreed on this or that, and then we both follow through), strength in communicating (both good and bad events), and a quiet, positive, I-can-do-this (without being pompous) attitude.
Rad Hat. If you will relocate.
So you've realized that your skills are not in demand, so you turn to certs to boost what you don't have. Hmmm, maybe you should develop some new skills and advertise them. It's a classic capitalistic action but quite effective. I'm constantly looking for people who have good programming skills and I have a hard time finding them. A cert or two won't impress me, quite the opposite actually.
Especially DoD, look up the DoD 8570 documentation on required certifications
I am researching taking it as I see job postings requiring them for non network admins.
It is rediculous and overkill and nearly impossible to pass without prepping for 6 months and buying your own switches and routers as the simulators won't cover what you need to pass all for a silly assocites level.
http://saveie6.com/
Question: Did Steve Jobs ever have any "IT Certification" or not?
Question: Does Bill Gates ever need any "IT Cert"?
You may think that the questions above are trolls, rest assure, they aren't
IT certs are for those who do the grunt works in the IT fields
I have been in the fields for decades - and no, I don't need to boast - and the people whom I pay a lot of money for, those who have genuine new ideas and can really turn ideas into reality, I never need to know if they are "certified" or not
As for the code monkeys, but of course, they come looking for work armed with all kinds of certs, hoping that they would land a job because of the certs, not because what they can do
Go for KPIs / LEAN / PMP / Prince2 / ITIL.
They have many benefits besides improved chances for getting a job, not the least is setting and reaching goals.
I was laid off earlier this year, and like you, did not have any certs. From my research, the one that seems to pay off the best, and is in reasonable demand is ITIL. If you want to go more technical, look at CCNA and A+. All are fairly cheap and especially the ITIL can be fairly easy to study for and pass if you've been working in IT management for a while.
The main problem with certs can be demonstrating by googling the cert title or number + "dumps". You will find the exact questions and answers for most tests. (More on "most" in a moment.) I don't mean a detailed outline - I mean the full text of the question, the possible answers, and which one is correct. Memorize the answers and you pass the cert.
As someone who periodically participates in hiring, I don't see much value in certs. I've had the experience of people who had certs who didn't know their stuff. I've never known any employer who given a choice between someone with many years of experience and someone with a cert, would choose the latter.
There are other problems with certs. I've always found the format is quite ridiculous. Why should I memorize things? If they test concepts, that'd be one thing, but often certs are "which of these commands is correct" kind of questions. What, am I trapped on a desert island with a datacenter to administer and no manuals?
That said, certs can't hurt. I find them valuable to study for though less to actually take. Vendors outline everything to get a basic knowledge, and that's useful to go over. The only time I see real value in certs is
All that said...the exception to the above is the certs that do have some value. These are the certs that you have to pass a lab for: RHCE, Oracle Certified Master, Cisco's CCIE, etc. A CCIE is highly valuable - those guys bill very well.
Advice: on VPS providers
In your case, certifications won't likely help you much.
I would say, that since you're asking the question, you probably are in the wrong field.
You're in a field with many bright, observant people and you haven't really bothered to pay close enough attention to the field around you but you call yourself an IS manager. I would say your problem is not certifications, its that you're just not that good or at a bear minimum, you aren't trying very hard and thats why your career is stalled.
With 15 years 'experience' you should know the answer to this sort of generic question.
The actually answer is 'yes, no, maybe, both, sometimes and never'. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish and who you're trying to get hired by or who you are trying to impress for a promotion or raise. You haven't bothered to consider what you're trying to accomplish but instead you've just come to slashdot expecting an easy answer. Certain companies will require certifications. Some will know that most are stupid. Certain certs are actually meaningful, and certain certs just mean you paid the right 'training provider' the right amount of money (i.e. took their training courses)
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
You want a certification for a good career? Certified HVAC Technician.
You are welcome on my lawn.
So my question is: are any certifications now worth it? If so, where do I start?
If certifications are going to get you that job you're dreaming about then... of course they're worth it. Are they of any practical value in the real world? Nope.
No.
Also, you seem to have squandered all of your time at the current company you're at by not engaging in continual professional development to better yourself while working. You've been milking the job you've been working at without taking a real interest in the work you're doing, and without thinking of ways to better yourself or your company; and it appears that you have gotten what you deserved.
Leave Information Systems and change your career, everyone will be better off for it, including you. Go back to watching football, hanging out with your friends, and eating wings on Tuesday nights; the rest of us are working.
Sig: I stole this sig.
I happen to be in the same boat but disagree with the conclusion. After MBA, I tried product management & engineering management but those did not make me happy. I am back to architect type roles and decent understanding of the business domain surely helps. I got my ROI in 2 years.
I have found that even in the management role, the "grunt" certifications are still valued as the assumption is that you have a solidunderstanding of what your reports are doing (and you can jump in if necessary) - Microsoft, Cisco, etc. Virtualization certifications are big. If you are leaning at all towards security, take a look at the CISSP.
I am seeing a lot of requests for ITIL and other frameworks. Those are generally easy (er) to come by and most don't require special classes, only that you pass the exam.
One recommendation would be to search Monster, etc and look at jobs you would be interested in and see what they are looking for. More often than not these days there are certifications that they prefer.
If you use VMware at all in your shop, push your boss to pay for your training and certs at least up to and including VCP. Without demonstrable knowledge and skill in virtualized environment administration, you will find it exceedingly difficult to find another job anywhere. The trouble is that the VCP is ridiculously expensive - so have your company pay for it. If you don't use VMware, then at least get yourself a VCA - that, you will be able to afford yourself. But shoot for the VCP.
I am Audience.
"Certified" is the keyword for recruiters to discard your resume. It means you have no experience in the subject beyond a one week course. Instead, take a real class in a subject you won't to work in and that has a reasonable carrier potential. For example, Big Data technologies such as Hadoop, Cassandra and Lucene have reasonable earning potential. Even though you are aiming to be a manager, make sure you can setup the components and run, say, simple Hadoop jobs hands on so you have a clue what you will ask other people to do. Then get join a consulting firm like Accenture or Infosys and make sure you finish an important contract with good results. You can then try to convert from a contractor to a full time employee, which is much easier than joining from outside. Or, in the worst case, you have now have a compelling resume and good references in the field. Takes patience, but no one week class is going to give you same results and spending a year or two in order to actually get good.
The easy certs (CCNA MCSA A+) are a no brainer. For a few hundred bucks you get certified and show your employer that you are skilled. The more difficult certs (CCNP CCIE RHCE MCSE) show you are highly skilled and demand a higher wage. Yes, I'm sure /.er's will argue about the MSCE but I studied my ass off for 5 exams for that damn thing and it was hard... and I passed so... whatever.
I am currently doing Introduction to Functional Programming and I am very impressed on how much it has helped to get into Haskell. Earlier I've tried reading "Learn yourself a Haskell" and "Real World Haskell" but having to do excercises and labs made the difference (for me)
Perl Programmer for hire
Technical merits aside (some are better than others), certifications offered by vendors often allow a company to obtain a discount when purchasing equipment from said vendors.
Its usually part of the channel incentives structure that vendors put in place to drive adoption of their products.
H1B and the will to work 60-80 hours a week
There's no one answer here. Sometimes a cert will get you past an HR screen for a job you want, in which case it pays for itself no matter the cost (though once you're past entry level, the jobs you probably really want come from people you know, not recruiters you impress). Sometimes a cert will help your employer land a contract, or get a better partner status (=discount) with a vendor, in which case it pays for itself (as long as the company pays or you get a cut). Sometimes it's a good motivator to force yourself to learn something you've been meaning to get around to trying, even if you'd be embarrassed to put the cert on your CV. Sometimes, you think one of the above applies and it doesn't. Sometimes you think one of the above applies, but you can't be sure. The rest of the time, it's not worth it.
If you are in IT management and feel that your skills are best suited to spend the rest of your career in management, then you should work on a Masters degree (i.e. MBA or Masters in IT Management). Certifications are largely for skilled IT workers who actually do the work. Managers, on the other hand, tend to focus on strategy, keeping track of work and work assignments, reporting, etc. Usually for management positions, relevant experience covers any hands-on IT knowledge needed.
"redculous", "assocites" - I'd suggest investing in spelling and vocabulary books first.
You must be one of those people who liked the oily, whiny wimp who played Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars episodes 2 and 3. That's like the bad boy version of Justin Bieber.
Shame on you, and on the next three generations in your family.
lucm, indeed.
Use the certifications exams as an opportunity to kill fuckers.
Ha
It seriously depends. In my specialty, having the cert is actually the primary method for getting contracts. Most consumers of the technology I work with go directly to the source and use their "find a consultant" feature, which you can only be listed on if you are certified. With that being said, I stopped paying for certs in other things like CC**, MCSE's, etc, many years ago. Never once, have I ever been asked if I was certified in anything by anyone other than some schmuck recruiter fishing for a new resume to shop around. I would say though, there are certain gigs, like the one I am on now, that "require" a cert for this technology, but they've never asked me for it.
been in the industry now for more than 12 years. Not done even a single certification. Just think about it,
Interviewer: Do you have a CCNA ?
You: Yes, I do.
Interviewer: You're hired!
Conversations do NOT go like the above example. Ultimately, it is your knowledge that counts. And if your resume is being weeded out because you don't have certifications, then you are probably applying to the wrong kind of companies. Look for companies that value knowledge and experience more than certification. You will be happier.
I try to take two certs or something of a similar level every year.
The reasons are:
1) Management likes them. Having certs increases your chance of getting that interview.
2) They force you to learn parts of the product you normally don't use. This is the main thing for me, it gets me out of the items I normally admin and that the users primarily use and forces me to learn parts of the product I would not.
The saying goes certs will get you interviewed, experience will get you the job.
I got my CCNA using Packet Tracer and a book. Not sure why you think you need more
Sometimes process is more important than technical competence. A scrum master certification might get you recognized for seeing the bigger picture and potentially affecting change in a team. In addition to just scrum, the PSM course also touches on TDD, definition of done and many things that tie directly into the development process.
Don't bother. Just get a new career. If you upscale your certs they will just replace you with a H1-B.
So my question is: are any certifications now worth it?
Depends on who pays for them.
Your current employer, or the unemployment agency or someone else? Go for any and all you can get.
You yourself? Check the job offers of jobs you care about. Make a list of the certifications that are mentioned there and check the top two or three (most mentionings). Do them if they are affordable.
Certifications are largely a scam or a shakedown, take your pick. They teach you nothing, and they check your ability to memorize test questions more than they test your actual abilities. I've got the test papers from CISM still here, and while my 15 years of IT security experience helped me pass it almost without learning, any buffon who's never even seen a computer could've passed the test by simply learning by heart the contents of one folder.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Buy some 2nd hand switches off eBay.
$40 should be enough to get a pair of managed switches.
There is also simulator software available.
ITIL certs are in great demand. A single search on Inceed has 1,600+ jobs, from $60k-$140k+. ITIL is also more policy than tech, sounds right up your ally. It's the "worldwide" standard now, ITIL policy REQUIRES my team to exist at my workplace...we do the ITSM "root cause analysis" part. Well, I'm supposed to but normally the network runs so smooth I might do 15 minutes of actual work a day, mostly I just watch primewire / neflix all night. I don't have any ITIL certs, but they ARE pretty useful but their just now showing up in the US on jobs. I can't actually name my client as I recently got in trouble from a VP for that (nice surprise there), but 1,500 feet away from me is the SABRE mainframe underground complex.
Certs hurt. While conducting around 100 interviews while at Google, we never recommended anyone who listed certs on their resume be interviewed in person. Sometimes they were sent to us anyway, and every one of them bombed when given practical knowledge tests.
Well, you probably have one. But if you don't, seriously, it's important even if you don't have a car.
The reasons :
- It's a good all-around test : smart enough to understand traffic laws, good enough motor skills, minimum amount of common sense, etc... Basically shows that you are not crippled.
- Your employer may ask you to drive someday (buiseness trip, rental car...)
The urologic certification ensures that you can focus on your work for longer continuous stretches of time over the day. The cardiologic certification ensures that you can focus on finishing and later occasionally maintaining large pieces of work, and keep doing so for years to come. For support work, get a hepatologic certification that will ascertain that your liver is good for decades of drowning existential crises.
Don't pay for it yourself. Also with SDN, noone should care what is a switch or a router. The networking companies are going to have their market share destroyed once the open source hardware projects start taking off. Look at facebook WEDGE.
That won't work. I did it. Getting a MBA will not automatically get you into management or into the business side.
What will happen is that after 2+ years and a ton of money, you'll be back to doing what you were doing but with very expensive letters after your name - that no one in technology really cares about. I went to a top 40 school - not good enough for a lucrative consulting gigs like the Harvard guys get.
It really depends on what you want to do. yea, if you want to move back into tech you probably will get zero ROI. A key point is to look at a school's hiring results and see if the $ and companies will make it worthwhile.
What I advise people who ask is first move into the business side or leadership roles - like a tech lead.
And keep moving towards management - many companies have that kind of career path.
Good advice since experience helps a lot in post-MBA hiring.
As far as the MBA. Only get it if you really need it to get a job or to keep your job. And ideally have your company pay for it and allow for you to take time to take classes, work on projects, and study during business hours and even on company time.
Also good advice. If your company will foot the bill that means they value the degree and saves you money.
Then there's this advice I received from a senior VP of a very large job site (via a common friend who forwarded his email to me): "MBA degrees are worthless."
Shit. Too late.
That really depends on what you want to do. if you want to go back into an IT role an MBA is worthless; just as an IT degree is probably worthless if you want to do organizational development work. If you plan to switch careers then it can be helpful. It also depends on the school. There are a lot of schools offering MBAs that may have some regional recognition but not much value nationally and probably much less of a network, which is the real value of the MBA. Grades also count.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
A lot of people don't think they are worth the time or money and that they don't prove you have any sort of knowledge or skill. That can be true, but that isn't the important part. The important part is whether or not they help you get the job you want. If a manager has a certification listed as a job requirement then it is valuable to have. I say go for any certifications that pertain to the job you want. Look for postings for those jobs and see if they mention certifications. If they do, get them.
What you want and think is immaterial.
It is all about what your future employer values.
The options are:
- The actual certifications matter to the employer. Unlike many longer established professions such as for instance law, medicine, architecture, which by law require professional accreditation before you can practice it professionally, IT so far has few if any such legal requirements. But the trend in industry regulation and quality improvement (such as ISO 9001) makes certification of your staff an easy, objective metric to "prove" a (minimal) level of staff competency. Without certification you simply won't be considered.
- The actual certifications don't really matter to the employer. It's about the actual skill level, but by using any number of common industry certificates in the job description you convey skill levels and areas that are important to the role. Your CV should make it glaringly obvious then that you're the right candidate.
As the candidate you don't know beforehand which is the case... :( although you can always try to inquire beforehand.
My personal opinion for a good number of certificates is that if you've been working with that particular technology for some time (and maybe with some self-study) you can simply show up for the exam and pass, without an expensive training beforehand. When a current employer doesn't want to pay, you can often qualify for some tax deductions when you pay for them yourself.
Or more bluntly; if you think you're THAT good and so much better then somebody who "only" has the piece of paper, then getting the actual certificate should be trivial for you and why don't you?
If a trainstation is the place where trains stop, what is a workstation?
I got a Bachelors in Business Management and I've worked in IT in higher education for a decade. I realized something early in working with technology, programming was not my forte. I've dealt with systems design and integration, instructional technology, instructional design, and being a jack of all trades, master of none. I worked within a semi-centralized IT environment and worked collaboratively with colleagues all over campus.
Recently a corporate shill CIO came in thanks to our VP of Business and Finance, and decided to destroy my college's IT community. The idea was to create efficiency by centralizing everything. Since the reorganization, I've seen 4 of my good friends and colleagues leave by force. I was shifted from instructional technology to client services, got my workload doubled, and received an 18% pay cut. By the way, this CIO left abruptly, merely weeks after enacting the re-org, for a higher paying job.
Now in order to fill needs caused by the laid off and struggling institutional IT veterans, the CS manager (who has no experience managing people, probably a friend of our former CIO) hiring whatever warm body Robert Half gives them, never mind the fact that we probably have about 50% mac usage among all faculty and staff, and the RH lackeys know nothing of Macs, and admit that to support clients. In reality, after this month, the CS team will only have two veteran techs that have been there for over 3 years.
I've been on the prowl for jobs in the area and have been looking for 6 months. I have experience managing people and projects across business units, but I'm finding roadblocks all over. I've got a year and a half to go on my masters in leadership development, and it's looking like I need to wrap that up before I can make the next step in my career.
As far as certs go, I see ITIL all over the damn place, and am thinking if I want in on IT managment, ITIL or PMP is the way I need to go.
Cert, diplomas and degrees are topping.
If you can't - with a straight face - say: "Gigs were low at the time, I thought I might aswell take a cert, to see if I could make it." then certs won't add anything. If, however, you want to raise your marketability as a freelance or in a setting where politics count for a lot, a certification can be the little extra that gives you the edge. Just don't rest on them or boast to much about them, then you're fine.
Perhaps a certification trail on a certain topic - SAP or Oracle - might even be a prerequisite. But then it's the equivalent of a college degree anyway. And the same rules apply for those, if perhaps on a larger scale.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Do you gain an advantage when interviewing for a job?? Not with me and many others, so the value in that instance is very low. I'm more interested in how smart you are, the specific experience you have in a subject, and your ability to utilize those skills. Certification just says you can study something very well. I've known people that have studied a subject and gotten certified with no experience, someone like that is useless.
Are you going for a job that requires it?? Some teaching and support positions require certification for public relations and marketing reasons. So in those instance, it's probably mandatory.
Do you want to use it as a tool to work towards learning as much as you can as a subject?? It can be very helpful to an individual to independently gain skills that may or may not be available in a more formal setting, such as college or trade school, and is probably a lot cheaper. I would say that value is very high for someone that wants to use it like that.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Dynamips is an opensource Cisco router emulator (need your own IOS image though). I used it for my test prep (CCNP, which is a level above CCNA). Won't help you with the switches, but it's a start.
There are several traditional universities that are offering evening and/or online MBAs. If you want to stay on the management side of IT this might be a more useful track than a certification.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Regardless of the validity of any given certification certain prospective employers require certification up front before hiring. That being said, if you are looking for work in the government sector this requirement is absolute. From what I have seen in the commercial sector most employers will hire you without the position's required certs if you prove that you can do the work. Some may put a stipulation that you acquire a certification within a set amount of time. What I do is take the tests that I can pass and prove what I can do during the interview process.
I don't believe someone should be able to pass a RHCE or even a higher level MCSE without understanding something so basic as a netmask and broadcast address. I have seen plenty of Junior level admins stuff a /24 netmask into a /25 and have network problems that they can't explain. A "good" SA should be able to catch and correct this without need to find the network team to debug the issue for them. And yes, I have seen many MSCE holders have to traverse that path and bother their Network team for a simple SA error.
I happened to pick the Netmask and calculation as an easy target, but there are plenty of low level concepts that I believe all SAs should know. I don't care if you can give me all 7 layers of the OSI model by rote, I care that you can at least debug your area of responsibility as a SA.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
That can work. Making the leap from technology leader to business leader is not easy. It is very tempting to fall back on old, reliable, technology skills like you did. Hey, you were good at that stuff so it is easy. recruiters want you for your past, but you want a different future.
If you do an MBA you have to realize, and accept, that an MBA is not the end . It is the beginning of learning a whole new set of skills you don't have right now.
if MBA is out, I recommend PMP and ITIL. Both applicable to both technology and business side and will help you make the leap...
If you are interested in pursuing more of the management side vs. the technical side, consider rounding out your skill-set. Certifications such as CISA (Certified Information System Auditor) from ISACA and CIPP/IT (Certified Information Privacy Professional in IT) would provide a different perspective from what you may be used to. Both are self-study and are more practical than technical.
I have a very difficult time believing you went from no concepts to full blown CCNA level knowledge in 4.5 days. Especially if you're talking the current iteration of the exam. There is just FAR too much information you are required to know to be able to absorb it in such a short period of time. You are required to know everything from ICND1 and ICND2 which is about ~900 pages of the driest reading material on Earth. Seriously, try to read more than a chapter without your eyes glazing over. You'll get an achievement if you can do it :D
These topics include:
The OSI model, per layer responsibilities, what each layer adds to the packet headers, etc.
The TCP/IP suite.
Switching concepts. Building a switch up from scratch. VLANs, VTP, Spanning Tree, Trunking, Port Security.
Routing concepts. Building a router up from scratch. Rip, Single and Multi-Area OSPF, EIGRP, HSRP/VRRP, ACL's,
Wan concepts: Point to point and Frame Relay ( Fun with DLCI ! )
SNMP and IOS v15+ licensing
Subnetting by hand ( Class A, B and C networks ) Be able to determine what subnet an IP belongs to given an IP and Mask only.
You're required to know all of the above for both IPV4 and IPV6 where applicable. You are required to be able to configure everything from memory via the command line ( no gui, no SDM or Cisco Configuration Professional ) and you have to know it well enough to be able to troubleshoot it.
You have to know details down to the nth degree. Like why is this switch the root ? Why is this port forwarding and that port blocking ? How to modify the STP parameters to change this to suit your needs. How long are the dead timers for routing protocol X ? Given this configuration for Routers 1 and 2, why are they not neighboring up ? Why can't I ping device X in network Y ?
The CCNA is no longer entry level. ( CCENT is )
CCNA is your small business network.
CCNP pushes you to enterprise class networks and concepts.
CCIE's are your network designers and top tier problem solvers.
Cisco Architects are the PH.D's of networking.
Again, maybe you have a crazy high IQ ( mines ~140 ) or maybe you have an Eidetic memory. If you do please accept my apologies and I formally bow to your awesomeness. However, normal folks going from absolutely no concept to passing a current CCNA exam in less than a week would be nigh impossible. It would take almost that long just to read through the material without really getting into details. Hell, just the training videos alone ( the ones I have used ) are in the 40-60 hours running time range.
I know what certifications have been looked for on job adds and I know what ones will be looked for in the future too by my own reckonings or gambles. I suggest u do that. Watch for something that is at least mentioned in a job spec. Forget /.
Full disclosure: I’m a CTO for a large state university healthcare system with a masters degree and 19 certifications. (16ish still active)
I would counter this question with a couple more. What size of IT do you want to work in? The requirements for degrees and certifications go up as you get into larger and larger shops. Are you thinking of the future IT landscape? Like it or not the pervasiveness of the cloud will make IT more competitive in the future as organizations begin to rely more on analysts with specific skill sets (and certifications in them) and project managers while deferring operational roles to cloud providers (or reducing staff somewhat with private/hybrid clouds).
My main point being that in the coming decade we will all need to be more competitive because there will very likely be a reduction in the necessary IT workforce. Certifications are one of the methods to achieve that.
We are also serving multiple masters now. The days of monolithic IT departments that cut their own swath through the business are pretty much at an end. IT has to become a part of the business strategy working as a partner to increase revenue. Yes, experience will always be king on a resume. But IT departments will fall in line with the normal degree requirements and post educational requirements already existent in other departments. IT managers will be able to make the case for that occasional “special” hire. But it quickly grows very tiring fighting with HR for every open position because candidates don’t have the organizational requirements. Plus, there are enough candidates that you can afford to toss a really good resume to avoid the fight. You’re not trying to get through the HR automated filters anymore; those filters have become organizational institutions.
Based on the background in the OP third paragraph I’d really recommend looking at project management certifications (good) and possible a masters degree (better). The PMP from the project management institute is very well respected but is based on the waterfall approach and may not be relevant to some IT shops. There are agile certifications out there as well (including one from PMI) that may be better suited and more interesting to you.
There are a lot of good cert programs, but most aren't worthwhile. You need to decide 1st what job you are looking for. If you are looking for a management role technical certs aren't going to help as much as project management, an MBA or MIS. That said there is a limit to how far any of these will take. Sure they will help fill a check box, and impress the non-technical, but what you need is contacts. You need former coworkers who will recommend you to their current employer. This means you need to be a competent manager/supervisor, and well as someone enjoyable to work with. I see time and time again people getting hired because someone says yes he's a dependable guy who can do that job. This can be a problem if you've worked for a single employer with good retention.
Certs serve a lot of practical purposes, from acting as a focused introduction, to what your interested in, to what you know something about, to "I cared enough" to put on this business suit on for this interview. Not everyone has them.. and those that don't bother.. tend to complain about them the most. Small wonder.
Its no secret which Certs are easy to obtain or that are worthless. Some are good, some are bad, some are a waste of time.
Choose your Certs carefully and they will show intellect and awareness of your industry.. randomly acquire a massive number that you don't keep up to date.. that says a great deal about you too.
The benefit over a College degree is its not considered a breach of trust or responsibility to leave some off your Resume.. even if you blew the money on them and got some your a little embarrased to admit.
As for "Which Certs do I need? To get XYZ job".. no one can predict that.. it depends on your contacts, job availability, and frankly your social and technical skills that have almost nothing to do wtih any Cert. There is no certain "Free Lunch" or "Royal Road to Geometry" my Prince.
It is a known fact however some Certs can lead to degrees like Western Governors, you do have to study for them and they motivate you to succeed attaining them "freshens" and keeps you up to date even with those things you known but haven't had time to keep up to date with.. so they build confidence.. so in that way they are Continuing Education.
They cost money, but nothing like the courses did or do in College, they are short commpared to a Semester of study, they are focused, they don't have an aura of "We are Perfect and your Lucky we stoop to teach a course for you low lifes.." And when you are done.. you do know something more than you did.. and you can take part of the cost off on your Taxes each year if you properly document them.
There are Cert "Shops", Test "dumps" Cheat sheets.. but so what.. there is a much mroe rampant Industry for College Courses and University Study..
I think its what you do with it after attaining it that matters. Do you promote it on your Resume, do you keep it up to date and current, Do you rub it in your Collegues faces and let you r Boss know every ten secondsor are you Cool about it and just stop complaining about the "worthlessness" of Certs.. I think that's more of a Social Skills problem. Being Stupid is Temporary.. Being a Moron is forever.
If you're going to stay on the Management track, an MBA is probably worth more than any cert. Although a PMP Cert is also pretty well respected these days, both by HR and by Management types.
The OP is a manager, not in a technical role. I would much rather have a manager who knew how to manage, than a technically knowledgeable manager that was clueless about the management part.
There is no need to get any technical certifications, unless you are looking to leave your management role and re-enter a technical career path. Instead, take some good courses on management - strategy, resource management, mentorship, performance management, financial management, etc.
An MBA is very useful - but not necessarily for the education, but for the networking value you will gain by working closely with senior executives from other large enterprises. That's why its better to get an MBA from a reputable name-brand school, not just so it will be on your resume, but because you will have built trust relationships with these other well-placed individuals, that you can leverage to enhance your career later on. Assuming you don't piss them all off because you're a useless sponge...
Billy, with GNS3 and IOU integration in a Virtualbox, you can recreate enough routing and switching topologies to pass the CCNA without buying any hardware - I would argue it's much easier now than when I got my ccna (1999) and folks had to buy 2500's used for 500 bucks each to get the hands on
of course, you could read Todd Lammle's CCNA book back then and pass it but I digress
RB
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ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
The best thing you can get right now are AWS certs. Business is booming.
"I suspect HR systems are weeding out resumes that don't have the correct alchemical formula of certifications."
More like they are weeding out US citizens, especially those above a certain age...
Are any Certifications Worth Going For? Yes. Any cert if worth going for.
Why? Because HR and Hiring Managers are filtering
If you have 10 resumes, some with 4 years experience, and some with 4 years experience and a cert, and they want to narrow down the candidates, guess what the HR and Hiring managers are going to use? The cert will make the difference.
Also, certs can result in higher pay when the offer comes. Again, this is often just arbitrary bias by HR and the Hiring managers.
If you get certs in areas that you have practical experience, you will probably "really" learn and you won't be a paper cert.
If you get a cert in an area that you don't have practical knowledge, it might be paper, but it might help show you can learn a new product you don't know.
The HP3000 Professional certification before I die.
There's only one person still alive licensed to grant this certification, and he's gettin' old. (He flew P2 Neptune's for the Navy.)
Wonder if I can get my company to foot the bill?
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
Lots of people on this site will have an opinion, but most of them are worthless.
A better way to find out would be to scan the ads for your area and see how many people are asking for various certifications, and to ask reasonably reputable headhunters and/or hiring managers (whoever you have available) in your area to see what's in demand (assuming you want to stay in that geographical area).
Best of luck to you.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I believe the ISACA CISM and CISA are a tremendous value to you personally and recognized by all professionally.
http://www.isaca.org/CERTIFICATION/Pages/default.aspx
Jeff Spivey