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Intuit Charges More For Previously Offered TurboTax Features, Users Livid
An anonymous reader writes: For years, the Deluxe edition of TurboTax was enough for investors and the self-employed to do their taxes. With this year's edition, Intuit removed Schedules C, D, and E, covering self-employment, investment income and asset depreciation. Those features now require an extra charge of $40. The company is getting murdered on Amazon reviews for it, with 900 users giving the software a 1-star rating.
If you're self-employed, have investment income, or asset depreciation, you probably already do your taxes with a real CPA. If you aren't, you probably should.
Morphing Software
More bad business decisions from the genius MBAs that are ruining everything that was good...
.. who doesn't have investment income?
Is anyone really surprised? This is the same company that tried to instill DRM in TurboTax a few years back, and they lost HUGE amount of sales, (myself included), so clearly they haven't learned their lesson. Too bad too. I guess it's time for this investor to start letting an accountant do my taxes.
Maybe instead of posting an impotent Amazon review, those people should work to get the tax system simplified.
I remember back in the days of QuickTax -- Windows users could buy QuickTax for a decent price and do their taxes. However, if you had a Mac, you needed to buy Deluxe, as that was the only version provided for the platform -- at a higher price than the Windows Deluxe version, both of which were twice the price of the regular version.
What were the extras you got? IIRC, it was the self-employment, investment income and asset depreciation packages, along with some retirement planning tools.
The other gotcha: the schedules were never updated until AFTER the early filing deadline, which meant I always had to file an update once I'd re-calculated for actual retirement values/contributions.
Well, it's been around 15 years now since I ditched Intuit for a web-based alternative that just works (I get tax refunds now within two weeks of filing), and I see absolutely no reason to go back, or recommend anyone else uses an Intuit product. This is just another nail in the Intuit coffin.
But I hear they're one of the best places to work....
Maybe I can understand the self-employment schedules as an upcharge, but Schedule D?!
That's something the average American household should (hopefully) be needing for their investment savings.
Owning a few mutual fund shares should hardly be an esoteric tax topic!
Plus, ya know, ahhh Bitcoin. (Just kidding)
Intuit top management got a huge pay raise in 2014. That money's gotta come from somewhere.
According to one article you can call them to complain and get a free upgrade to the version you need or send a scan of your receipt to H&R Block and get a free version of Tax Cut that has all the forms. Personally, I prefer the former so Intuit knows they have an unhappy customer serious enough to call them on these shenanigans.
ASCII tastes bad dude.
Binary it is then.
and apparently "chicken" isn't valid input? 1/5 This new software sucks.
OMG facts!
It seems Intuit is now in damage control mode; apparently if you call them and bitch enough they will upgrade you to "Premier" for free.
I've been a quickbooks customer for a long time, so I'm kind of used to the fleecing. I have never had a high opinion of Intuit the company; Quickbooks works well enough for the money, but if there was a reasonable alternative I would be gone in seconds.
Intuit sucks.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
It's not worth hiring a cpa for a few grand but you still have to report it
Has anyone ever tried to create an open source tax preparation software? It seems like a good candidate for open source software. The public could check it for accuracy and contribute better tax saving strategies to the greater public.
Yeah, this is a thing companies are doing to consumers now.
It's also a big topic of conversation at the dinners I have to sit through with money-grubbing shitfaced sociopathic CEOs.
It's called retrocharging.
It works on the same model as MMORPG's and DLC except it's more insidious: The company threatens to take away something you already have unless you pay them more money.
Comcast does this. They are now doing "account audits" after which they send you a letter telling you they're going to start charging for features they claim you have always had but haven't been paying for.
So now that it's 1.5 stars, does that mean it's underrated? because it's still one of the best bits of software out there.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
The government makes the tax laws and could, in theory, check that everyone has paid correctly. So why do we have to do this yearly ritual? How about the bizarre game of guessing how much to deduct from your salery and how many exemptions it needs to be - just have the correct amount deducted automatically.
Anyone with complicated finances, which would include any business, or who doesn't trust the government would still do it the same as now, but for most people it'd be far simpler.
They 'expire' the online features of their Quicken, etc software every few years, to force an upgrade. They have no need to do anything on their end with the online connectivity... it's all connecting directly to banks. It's crippling their software to force upgrades that add very little value (and usually add more bugs than improvements).
They also at least at one point had 'problems' connecting to network printers that they had to go out of their way to detect, just to force upgrades to higher level software.... because, you know... people with network printers must be businesses.
F--- them. There are very few people I actually despise, and the executives there certainly made the list.
The best way to do your taxes is with a ball point pen on tax forms that you've printed on your own printer. Just fill in the same stuff you did last year, recalculating or modifying the numbers where they've changed.
Federal + state takes about an hour, and you're not paying anyone a penny, except for two stamps. You can do self-employment taxes and investment income yourself, and pretty much anything a typical Slashdot reader would ever need.
Don't bother with "free file" unless you work in a state without income tax. That's where they charge you. Forget about H&R Block: Saves you no time whatsoever and they charge you a lot. If you make an honest mistake on your taxes, you can file revised paperwork. The IRS understands that people make mistakes. H&R Block doesn't "find you money." They do the same work you can do in an hour.
If you happen to make well over a hundred thousand dollars a year, congratulations, you're not a typical Slashdot reader. Pay an accountant to do the job. Don't even think about doing your own taxes.
If you have a side-job that doesn't withhold you are legally required to report it as a business. That way Self-Employment taxes get calculated properly, and you get credit with Social Security administration. The only out is if you earned less then $400. Then you're exempt from Schedule SE.
Which means that if you make $500 helping a caterer do big banquets, or even if you work for a cheap-skate who does't like withholding, you've got a Schedule C. You have to have some records of whatever expenses you paid to do the job (this is pretty much the only way you can deduct commuting mileage), you have to put them on the form, the whole nine-goddamn yards.
Schedule D is less common, but not as rare as you'd think. It;s where you report stock sales, so any Slashdotter who lived the dream of a successful start-up has filed quite a few of these. Most of Mitt Romney's income is actually reported on a D, because he pays himself with stock from his company, which he holds for a long time, which allows him to take advantage of the very low long-term Capital Gains rate.
Schedule E is the rare one. It's only for landlords.
Been a long time customer, but no more. TaxACT 2014 looks good, and at reasonable cost if you want the upgraded version.
One year they includes a 'feature' that locked the version to a single computer. I had used Turbo Tax up until then but ditched it when they pulled that stunt. I have never looked back.
How many versions do they have now? And WHY?
I switched to TaxAct last year as the discounts I got from my e-stock brokers were severely curtailed. What happened this year doesn't surprise me in the least.
I have schedules D and E, and the only issue with TaxAct that I had 2013 taxes was the State E-filing option. I ended up filing state using paper.
A few years ago, a relative bought a new laptop that came with Windows Vista. She asked me for help putting her QuickBooks onto it.
Her version of QuickBooks simply wouldn't run on Vista. So I went to the store to buy an upgrade. I carefully studied the feature lists on the boxes for the various versions, trying to figure out which one she needed. For $100 I got some version ("Express" or "Starter" or something like that). It had all the features she needed and was $100 cheaper than the next version.
It turned out that it was missing one key feature: it didn't support upgrading! It would have been fine for her if she had started out with it, but because she was upgrading from an old version, she had to get the $200 QuickBooks. That's right, her reward for being a long-time customer was to pay $200 instead of $100 for a version that would run on Vista. (And it really didn't say on the box that upgrading wasn't supported. I had to figure it out... when I couldn't find an "import" dialog in the menus, I searched their web site; and I found a knowledge base article that plainly spelled out that importing was a feature reserved to the $200 and above versions.)
If I ever start a home business, I'll run it on some open source system. No Intuit products for me, not ever.
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
And I'm not one of them. And for $10 you can get the Download to the desktop. Since my Father-in-law gets it that way, I just use his copy to do my taxes.
Cheap.
I used them to calculate my stuff once, from then on (since most tax stuff doesn't change year-to-year) I just used the old forms to recalculate my new taxes.
With that said, why the fuck are taxes so complicated in the US? There are many options used in many countries that make it simple. I guess it's the same as universal health care: "too complicated", in other words your governments, the supposed intelligent elite meant to lead us, are too stupid to copy better systems invented by better people. OK...
The governments of most advanced countries provide free on-line income tax preparation for thier taxpayers. Not so in 'Murica it where it is "monetized".
There is quite a powerful American lobby (Intuit mostly) in place to keep things that way. This is perfect example of what happens when outfits such as faux news brainwash americans that no good can come from a government run program of any kind. The other advanced countries do not charge anything as they see it as something in thier best interest.
Time for the competitors to undercut them.
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Maybe the tax software development department at Intuit got jealous of the Quicken software development department.
Perhaps the tax folks saw the Quicken folks changing the colors in Quicken X++ and tweaking a few settings to make sure that online banking no longer worked for older releases and coming out with a new version every year with little work. Then they looked at the actual work (gasp!) they have to do every year to conform to new tax laws and decided to find some way to extract more money to keep up with the Quicken scam.
[Actually, I suspect there's just a cron job at Intuit that makes these software "upgrades" to Quicken automatically every year. They probably don't even have to hire a contract programmer. Unfortunately (for Intuit) someday someone will unplug the dusty old 286 machine in a closet somewhere that does this work because they assume it must not still be in use and Intuit will realize too late they didn't come out with a Quicken #### that year.]
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
There’s lot more. Read the whole thing.
or harder than spelling?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I dumped Turbo Tax for a competitor when they used DRM at least a decade or more ago. I do my own taxes with TaxAct and have been using it since then. I am retired and have Social Security, some retirement income from a defined benefit plan that is still around and investment income. I could afford to hire a CPA or anyone else to do my taxes, but I don't want to. I use the process as an opportunity to review my investments and how they impact my taxes and make changes that benefit ME. As a retired engineer the way taxes are calculated drives me nuts, but what do you expect when Lawyers try to do math?
My first two accountants were referred by my friends who had businesses, saying these CPAs were good. Both were grossly incompetent. The didn't know about basic things any small business needs to do like section 179 deduction and gave me an absolutely wrong answer when I asked how to account for home office expenses. Their errors would have cost me a few thousand dollars, had I not caught them.
The second one couldn't even get the right social security numbers on the W2s, filed late and didn't tell me, etc.
If I'm going to have to study all of this tax law and understand it, then go over everything in detail to see where they screwed up, why wouldn't I just do it myself to start with? What am I paying them for?
If you do get a CPA for a small business ask them about section 179. If they don't explain it in a way that indicates they thoroughly understand it, find another CPA.
Link
It is much cheaper, has equivalent features, and better technical support than TurboTax. I started using this back when TurboTax added horrible DRM to their offering, and have never looked back.
I was forced to upgrade from Deluxe to Premier because I had sold mutual funds from a non-tax advantaged account. I didn't like it, but not unreasonable to me. Intuit decided to try to make more money. Most companies do. Given that, I think their approach was reasonable. Try to get the folks who probably make the most money to pay more. For the schedule D, I don't think you need Premier for:
* Buying stocks or mutual funds.
* Mutual fund dividends or year-end capital gains. They do support this portion of sch D in Deluxe.
* Selling 401K or IRA assets. These are not reported on schedule D.
Most Americans do not have non-tax advantaged accounts.
To me it makes more sense to me to increase the cost of those few who use additional forms rather than increase the cost for all users.
I do agree with the person suggested that Intuit should have sent emails to folks who purchased Deluxe last year. They do ask for an email address when to register with them. Intuit did indicate on their site that the rules had changed. But I just ordered the version I had last year from Amazon without looking at the TurboTax site. I suspect a lot of others did the same thing.
I switched to the equivalent H R Block product years ago. Works just as well and costs less.
I remember doing taxes one year. I'd spent all day at it. I was unsure I'd done it properly and came out owing around $100 in taxes. On the suggestion of a friend I hired a CPA. He gave me a 30 minute interview, took my various tax related papers, had me sign a few things, and that was it. In a week or two he reported back to me saying I'd be receiving a $1,500 tax return. It only cost $150. It's the best investment I've ever made. I have never done my taxes without a CPA since.
I've been using their tax software for years and haven't looked into their offering this year because I found an alternative that lets you pay what you want to, including nothing, after you have filed. It's at simpletax.ca in case anyone is interested. Now I just need to find an alternative for my company taxes.
I used Quickbooks many years ago for a small business, on the advice of my accountant. Three years later, the software which had met my basic needs just fine, stopped working. It was all I needed, still ran fine, but purposely stopped connecting to my bank, unable to further download any data. Forced obsolescence courtesy of Intuit. Last product of theirs I have ever owned.
YES! I remember that! To this day I still use H&R Block's TaxCut because of those bastardy shenanigans!
I had just submitted an order for Turbotax on Amazon, then came here and saw this. I just canceled that order while I assess what to do about this situation. Hope Intuit loses a lot of business.
You ARE retarded. He was pointing out that YOU don't know how to spell so you certainly shouldn't be doing your own taxes nor tell anyone else what they need to be doing. Since you can't even follow a simple conversation, I most wholeheartedly agree you shouldn't be doing your own taxes, nor even typing on the internet, moron.
It's a lot harder than you think! Especially when you start trying to figure out the child tax credit, the alternative minimum tax, etc etc.
H&R Block Tax cut will run you $15 practically everywhere for the Basic edition, which is really all you need. Saved me $900 my first year off the credits alone -- they were purposely obtuse in the 1040 documentation!
Just copying your tax data-file over to a new name and playing what-if games in TaxCut can save you a bundle. My federal taxes used to be only a few thousand a year thanks to playing around and finding what I could deduct (mortgage was a big one) and what I could get credit for.
One caveat: When things get complicated, and the dollar figures get large, ask around and hire a pro! There's a lot of very specialized knowledge out there that you're not going to find in cheap mass-market software. Especially if you're running your own business, self employed, managing trusts, etc.
Sounds like business as usual 4/15/14 /. post about turbo tax lobbying against simplifying the tax system
Speaking as a long time tax cut user who finally had enough and switched in 2013...
Tax Cut is now owned by H&R block. The software is buggy and terrible; gigantic mistakes made, autofiling errors...
Please do yourselves a favor and not use it.
I have never been a fan of Intuit. They have highly questionable business practices and I feel are very lacking in business ethics. Their competitor is much the same. At least here in Canada there is no decent company providing any accounting software. Make your own I say, at least you know who's douching you then.
Mean what you say...say what you mean.
There is a support page for TaxAct that mentions there is no Mac version, and instructs you to try the web version instead...
But at the end it says:
"Also, please ensure you are using the latest version of Internet Explorer "
Rather hard since Microsoft discontinued that for the Mac years ago!
At least the system requirements page is accurate, mentioning the three major modern browsers on the Mac...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
= $500/yr write off to have a professional save you time and money by insuring accuracy is peanuts if you truly aiming at being self employed.
Consider that if you as a self employed entity consider yourself an expert at your craft then It makes about as much sense for you as a non tax expert to do do your own taxes as it likely does for the person's who hire you to do the task they are hiring your expertise for themselves.
A few years ago, Intuit released an "update" to Quickbooks for Macs. Upon installation, poof, there goes your entire partition table. Completely unrecoverable. In my case, I happened to be on a business trip and had to get my backup drive FedExed to me. Did Intuit offer to pay for that? Nope. Rat bastards.
Now, I'll grant you that Intuit doesn't seem to give a crap about the Mac but having switched over to the Windoze version of Quickbooks so I could get the Manufacturing edition features, I've come to the conclusion that they don't give a crap about their Windoze customers either given their track record of ignoring enhancements or additions to core functionality and instead trying to push people onto the web.
I have used Turbo Tax for 15 years.
Now they can blow me...
Fucking greedy pricks!!!
I haven't used their equivalent of the deluxe version, but the standard one has worked well for me for quite a few years and costs less than Turbo Tax.
Not what they should be doing, but the IRS doesn't seem to care much to go after people for it. I can see it too, given that usually you'd end up close to even. While the money you charge is income, you can deduct the space used, expenses, etc, etc. As such I doubt there is a lot of extra taxes to be had for people with roommates and so the IRS doesn't do much in the way of enforcement.
What I mean is some places still offer defined benefit pensions. Those are investments, but they don't count as a normal investment does for tax purposes. You don't report on them or their value since you have no access to the money during your term of employment. So no need for a form for that.
1: self employment tax forms should be in the version of the software that is meant for self-employed people. I am not defending intuit, being that they likely did this for money reasons, but it does make a bit of sense.
2. fees paid for tax prep can be deducted. so you're getting the money back anyways. Most people who are self employed or have such income are going to be doing itemized deductions. so why complain about it so much if you're getting all the money back anyways?.
I don't pretend to know much about the American tax system, but I use TurboTax for my taxes in Quebec (where I have the privilege of basically doing my tax twice because the provincial and federal government each have complete sets of tax forms to fill out, but only in Quebec). TurboTax standard costs $18 and is what around 82% of people use (based on the number of reviews for each version). But if I didn't want to use TurboTax, there are something like 20 other tax programs out there, many of them cheaper, some of them free.
So, what's the big deal? Don't like what TurboTax charges, use something else.
Wanna simplify the tax system? Declare anyone in Congress must do their own taxes. No CPAs, no accountants, no advisers. I'd be tempted to say no tax software, but that might be going to far.
Guarantee, within 1 year taxes will be greatly simplified.
It is probably time for people to get together and develop an open-souce, no cost tax software. I think Intuit and other tax companies have made quite a bit of money and that is fair. It is not unfair anymore for crowd-developed no-cost tax-preparation software.
How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing http://www.propublica.org/arti...
If a $40 is a make or break cost for someone self-employed, they should get a regular job. Expenses are expenses. They're write-offs. The same for investments.
Seriously, we're worried about a bunch of whiners bitching about less than the cost of a tank of gas -- even with the recent price cuts at the pumps?
Shit. I'm on disability and I still often spend more than that on one meal.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
none of us would need this crap.
11% flat across the board, single sheet of paper that can be filled out in less than 10 minutes. DONE.
Other than the rich assholes that have been hiding their money whining about it 90% of america would benefit from this. Why are none of you demanding it from your senators?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If the government wants us to pay taxes, why doesn't the government set up an online system so that we can pay our taxes without this added fee?
H&R block does it, Turbo Tax does it. The government still allows you to pay using magnetic tape.
Why in the world would I want to help them out after this, when I could just switch to Tax Act and never look back?
I don't know these guys but I use studiotax in canada. It's free, but they accept donations.
I give a donation every year for their efforts and for almost all home uses its fine. I never tried to do any businessy stuff with it
http://www.studiotax.com/en/
With all this uproar it sounds like TurboTax has become the ObamaCare of tax software.
No brain, no pain.
Well then this year I may just go to the library and get the forms I need. I'll go through the online program just to make sure I don't miss any of the current changes, and then fill out the forms manually. Turbo Tax can go fornicate with a cactus.
I switched to TaxACT last year because of this exact behavior by Intuit.
I actually ran through the numbers twice last year, once in TT and another in TA. Both numbers matched.
I'm done dealing with Quicken for life.
H&R Block software (previously Taxcut) has been a better deal for several years now, and instead of adding stumbling blocks, it has gotten easier to install and update. TaxAct is probably an even better deal. I have only tried the free version, which is fine for simpler returns. H&RB doesn't do anything wonderful, but neither do any of the others. Overwhelming market share usually results in arrogance, and that's what's happened with Intuit.
And I can do my own taxes, thank you. The software was helpful for correct arithmetic.
TaxSlayer had these online forms free last year plus free efiling, AMT and NIT.
I'm expecting this comment to be very buried, but there is sort of a silver-lining. TurboTax will offer you 110% of your refund (for download/disc versions, 105% for online versions) if you take it in the form of an Amazon.com gift card. It doesn't take long for that to more than recoup the cost of the software, even if you have to move up a tier. What's more, Amazon is offering discounts for Prime members. If you're pushed (yes, I know, it hurts) into the Premier tier now, that is $54.99 for the download version. There will be an extra charge for the state file, if you so choose (but why bother). If you choose to get $600 of any tax refund as an Amazon GC, you've just recouped your $54.99, and come out $5.01 ahead (because you're getting $660 gift card for your $600 return portion). From there, every $100 more you put on that gift card is another $10 in your pocket. You can even have Amazon create an order report for you to see what you spent last year. I don't know, it's hard to get that upset about $10-$20 increase in costs for their software when they're giving me 10% bonus on anything from $100 to $10,000.
Taxes, for a lot of people are possible to figure out from the forms/instructions.
Part of compensation is sometimes stock or shares, even when it's a small amount, it can be a pain, depending how the company structures it.
Lots of people are "landlords", meaning they couldn't sell their house for what they owed and have tenants. Getting that to get reported/deducted properly (hey, guess what, assets depreciate, figure it out), isn't trivial.
One of the major DIY software's had me over-pay by a significant amount one year, and under-pay another year . . . the year I went to someone to prep for me, it said I had a $6k bill . . . it was something like $300. There is value in having a human do/help with your taxes, even if you pay them.
I had a CPA do them one year when it was simple and he charged me $500 -- the guy that helped me out (above) charges $300 and does it as a hobby (he's a CFA) since he has to know all of the tax laws anyhow. In my case, worth it.
How else are they going to pay for all those commercials they've been running during the playoffs? That ain't free!
If you live in maryland, you should know the comptroller site contains both iFile (for individual) and bFile (for business). https://interactive.marylandta...
Opens Jan 20th.
If you're self-employed, have investment income, or asset depreciation, you probably already do your taxes with a real CPA. If you aren't, you probably should.
A CPA is a Certified Public Accountant. Unless you are incorporated, you don't need one. The only thing that a CPA can do that a regular accountant can't is sign off on a quarterly audit of a corporation. That's it. That's why CPAs exist.
It's fine if you want to get a third party to do your taxes for you. That can make sense, particularly if you don't like accounting. But there is no reason to pick a CPA over another accountant unless you need corporate services. A CPA is the accounting equivalent of an MCSE or other certification. It exists because the government is not qualified to really check whether someone is qualified for a job. So they created the certification as a substitute for real qualifications. A CPA is someone who is qualified to pass the certification test. That's it.
All that said, it's all right if you choose a CPA as your accountant. Many accountants will get the certification because it allows them to accept more kinds of work. But you shouldn't assume that a CPA is automatically better than a non-CPA. In many cases, it won't be true. Part of the problem is that for the really good CPAs, they are probably better off getting only corporate jobs and not taking individual clients. A really good non-CPA though can only take individual work. If you find such people, hold onto them. They may be reluctant to charge you what they're worth. After all, they know your finances.
The forms are Free at IRS.gov so no need for TurboTax. I've stopped using TurboTax. It is simpler to just do the paper forms. I download them from the IRS.gov web site for ___FREE___ and fill them out as PDF files (use your favorite program such as Preview on the Mac, Adobe Acrobat, etc) and then submit them. Easy peasy. No fees.
I stopped using TurboTax when they decided they could write data outside my filesystem, as if it were their computer. I use H&R Block's TaxCut, and it's just as good as TurboTax ever was.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
By M in SC (Santa Cruz, CA USA)
Even in the high-priced Premier version, Schedule C is crippled -- limited to $100 of deductions in a couple of expense categories. I.e. only good for a tiny hobby business, and maybe not even that.
Bob Meighan, VP TurboTax says:
That['s] because most simple C filers receive a Form 1099-MISC that requires them to file Sch C even if it is for a one-off job or a temporary consulting job. For them, they really don't have expenses. That was the reason we provided the simple Sch C filing functionality in all TurboTax products from Deluxe up.
Well, Bob, "the simple Sch C filing functionality" would not have placed any limits on deductions. Somebody had to do some work to code that "$100 feature", making it more complex that it would have been.
I just got my free upgrade to Premier. The charge, which they waived, is $30 if you already have Deluxe. This provides Schedule D, which is the one I needed. I'm not sure whether it provides C or E, though.
There are still people around who use Inuit's crap instead of Xero???
Bizarre!
Tell it to the birds.
TaxAct a couple of years ago, because Turbo Tax could not properly do the Schedule K I needed. TaxAct had no problem with it, and it ended up being cheaper anyway. So no big loss here.
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!