Slashdot Mirror
Doxing Victim Zoe Quinn Launches Online "Anti-harassment Task Force"
AmiMoJo writes: On Friday, developer and doxing victim Zoe Quinn launched an online "anti-harassment task force" toolset, staffed by volunteers familiar with such attacks, to assist victims of a recent swell of "doxing" and "swatting" attacks. The Crash Override site, built by Quinn and game developer Alex Lifschitz, offers free services from "experts in information security, white hat hacking, PR, law enforcement, legal, threat monitoring, and counseling" for "victims of online mob harassment."
They have already managed to preemptively warn at least one victim of a swatting attempt in Enumclaw, Washington. As a result, the police department's head e-mailed the entire department to ask any police sent to the address in question to "knock with your hand, not your boot."
They have already managed to preemptively warn at least one victim of a swatting attempt in Enumclaw, Washington. As a result, the police department's head e-mailed the entire department to ask any police sent to the address in question to "knock with your hand, not your boot."
"the police department's head e-mailed the entire department to ask any police sent to the address in question to "knock with your hand, not your boot."
That sounds like appropriate advice for apprx. all addresses.
Slashdot has been fairly in the bag for the SJWs over the whole #gamergate thing, but this is a bit much. Really, we need be a advertizing platform for pet projects of the SJW crowd now? A "gender equality in tech" story 3 days a week wasn't enough? WTF happened to Slashdot? Broad political clickbait was a bit understandable but this is starting to look like a Gawker site.
We miss you Taco, but it's becoming clear why you left.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
you misspelled "doxxing perpetrator"
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
She personifies everything wrong with the gaming media.
Gamergate's Harassment Patrol has been decrying, detecting, and reporting such behavior for months, no matter which side it came from. Glad to see someone from the anti-GG side finally express willingness to follow their lead (this is an anti-harassment operation and not just a partisan anti-Gamergate PR stunt, right?).
Crash Override being the 2nd version of the task force's site. Version 1 was ZeroCool. Zoe will be running under an admin account named AcidBurn.
Don't forget to type cookie.
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
Dead Slashdot owners and editors,
I get it. You think GamerGate is the SS reborn and you support every form of elevating women above men wherever and whenever possible. You are feminism reborn, with a vengeance. Men are pigs and hail the SCUM manifesto.
You may be surprised to hear this, but I absolutely support you having and expressing that opinion. I think each person should say the thing they feel strongly about as frequently and loudly as possible. I would never, ever try to take that voice from you. From the most extreme Marx worshiper to the people who worship the ground Bush II walked on I love they have a voice. It's cliche but I feel it so strongly: I would gladly die to support and defend that voice. Go you! I mean that.
These things said I must admonish the way you go about voicing your opinions. Slashdot is taken as a news source: as the place to gain new insight and understanding of the world. As such choosing and phrasing stories in a politically biased manner does great disservice to your readers and harms your credibility as a place to learn. Newspapers in the past have had this problem too: How to say what should be while honestly reporting on what is? The answer they came up with suited very well, and has become an honored tradition.
That tradition is the editorial column. When you feel a social or political issue is important you can have a separate place to announce your opinion, and it will be given the eyes of every reader who chooses to learn what you have to say. The key word there is choice. When you present these opinions by changing the choice of article and editorializing in the summary, you're trying to take away people's ability to learn facts without political bias.
I still respect you. I still read you. But please. Please. make and maintain an editorial column and choose the stories you publish as news to be pure, unadulterated information about the world around us.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Doesn't mean she deserves harassment. Condemnation maybe. Harassment no.
I just always suspected Slashdot was Latin for deceased equine beaten.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Her name is Zoe Quinn. It's not a pseudonym, that's her actual name - she doesn't need to be doxxed. She's not a "victim" of doxxing, we already know who she is. Frikkin' hell, did someone hack her RAMs too? Was her CPU phreaked by 1337 script kiddies?
There was a headline the other day about saying that Sony had been doxxed.
Why is this on /.?
I can't believe this biased drivel is modded informative. The only evidence that GamerGate is about harassing people are the unsubstantiated claims of certain people who are profiting from the "harassment" amplified and echoed manifold by an agenda pushing media. I implore anyone who reads this to read the actual voices of GamerGate and to withhold judgement until they have. Go to 8ch.net/gamergate and see how many posts support harassment. Look at the ethics policies we've brought about. Look at what we do and not what the media says we do.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Since people like you still exist who think she's an innocent victim, she must be doing quite well for herself. Three cheers, indeed.
She doxxed and harassed the shit out of people before all of this happened. She's an oldschool SA forum troll. She's no fucking saint.
Oh please, I'm not going to even give boingboing, who've been in bed with Zoe Quinn since day one.
I am against doxxing, but Quinn has ruined lives and events on her own.
I wish we wouldn't give this this coverage or clicks.
and the evidence for this would be?
Why trust those who fell victim to such an attack to offer effective advice?
Let's check your world view- can you fathom why folks might be disdainful of social justice warriors?
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Judging by her online postings she doesn't seem all that different to this new wave of internet troll that we're getting these days. A whole lot of name calling, revelling in drama, and taunting her "haterz", and that kind of thing. It's a bit cringeworthy.
curious too. but i've got to say, it's sad, but i find it all too easy to believe all the folks involved in this mess are generally horrible people. most allegations are very likely patent nonsense all around, and yet... i still find myself concluding that i am so glad i don't know any of them, or anyone like them. there aren't two side to annoying dipshit.
can you link to a review of DepressionQuest that Zoe got in exchange for sex? No, because that review does not exist. It never happened.
Was I the only one who read "Zoe Quinn launched an online 'anti-harassment task force' toilet"? Does that count as precognitive abilities or do I need new glasses?
For a known harasser, Chelsea Van Valkenberg's quite odd for wanting to stop something she has practiced often.
Never mind that she's more than happy to see that opponents swatted (like Mike Cernovich) or gagged (like Eron Gjoni) - both cases based on falsified information.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Someone made a couple of posts on Wizardchan an off-topic comment about Zoe Quin being the cause of their sorrow and calling for revenge. No one did anything at all. Zoe and her clique got Wizardchan (a lonely guy support group) harrassed by falsely claiming these posts on a site she doesn't even go to were harassment from a hive of terrible neckbeard misogynist nerds.
More? Google "The Fine Young Capitalists" - These are feminists who ran a gamejam to get girls into game development / design and it was shut down by Zoe and her clique of slanderous trolls. The #GamerGate folks of /v/ and /pol/ on 4chan found out (they who supposedly hate women) and so they got the feminist pro-women gamejam funded.
I ask you, Presto Vivance, what evidence have you ever sought out about the #GamerGate affair? Would you believe KKK propaganda that they are fair and just and just want to inform you of the "inherent evils of blackness" without fact checking? No? Then why would you believe SJW propaganda that they are fair and just and just want to inform you of the "inherent evils of maleness" in games without fact checking?
It wouldn't matter if I posted any evidence showing ties to SA forrumites, or links to anything else, since you don't matter, you aren't interested, you don't fact check, can't do a single google search and instead beg for facts on slanted media outlets like Slashdot. But you've got to be kidding me if you think, "She's no fucking saint" isn't spot on.
A quick google search returns the following:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/
http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/2014/12/margaret-pless-zoe-quinn.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2fvt9n/zoe_links_a_doxx_to_wikipedia_editors_who_tried/
I don't make any claim whatsoever about whether thats factual or a fabrication, but Zoe Quinn rises all flags for professional con artist.
Can this extend to bosses in the workplace?
I've looked into this too. There are certainly threatening comments on twitter, but these get labelled as "By Gamergate" without any kind of awareness of the association fallacy. A threatening comment is always the responsibility of the individual. There are threatening comments all over social media, and anyone can be a victim of it. The media have been parroting this online harassment as fact without distinguishing it from criticism or just rudeness, and also without any acknowledgement of the same harassment on the other side. Active Gamergate supporters seem to vastly outnumber the anti Gamergate crowd by an order of magnitude, so I wonder if that makes it seem worse.
After 5 months of "GamerGate" there's been no arrests, no serious evidence of any imminent threat published or connection to any organized "harassment" campaign. Gamergate supporters themselves have been harassed, swatted, sent malicious objects in the mail and this is largely ignored in the media. Possibly because many of them took a different approach, and didn't kick up that much of a fuss about it, or perhaps because it doesn't fit the media's narrative.
This is my personal experience only, but the vast majority of gamergate supporters I spoke to were laid back, intelligent, friendly, and positive. There was the same ratio of weird but nice people that you'd find in any group really. However, many of Zoe Quinn's supporters ranged from being rude to abusive to authoritarian. They had an air of mocking superiority that gets old really quickly, and why I stay away from twitter.
And if she were a murderer, that would make it okay for you to be one too, by your logic?
Not sure I would exactly call Zoe Quinn a victim, she has behaved almost as badly as they have and when you verbally assault someone it is pretty unreasonable to not expect a similar or even more vicious attack in return.
She personifies grace under pressure.
really? I would have said she personifies the exact opposite and displays a heap of ignorance in dealing people socially, her responses to some of the attacks on her are what helped escalate the situation. She doesn't seem to understand social media at all or how to handle it.
She personifies grace under pressure.
What the hell? She is as bad as the people that attack her, most of the attacks were responses to her attacks. Yes what they said to her was way way over the top but you can't abuse people publically and not expect a very negative response. She lacks charm, grace and any sort of humility, she is plays the classic self obsorbed victim where anything she says is fine, and just no matter who she is insulting and anything said to her or about her is an unfair unwarranted attack.
Doesn't mean she deserves harassment. Condemnation maybe. Harassment no.
Very true, but the same can be said of her victims.
OK, so why do you bring up Gamergate out of the blue? Neither the article above nor any of the things it links to mention it at all.
This is one of those situations like when a stranger on the street walks up to you and says "I'm not drunk!" -- you might not have even had an opinion on the matter before he opened his mouth, but the very act of denying it creates suspicion.
If you want people to not associate Gamergate with harassment, you're shooting yourself in the foot by bringing up Gamergate whenever someone talks about harassment.
Yep, the 'feminist' game jam where the woman involved doesn't learn anything about how to code games at all, and is allowed to just submit an idea while men do all the work for her, because she shouldn't worry her pretty little head about the hard code stuff, right?
The same feminist game jam that she did not, in fact, shut down - she linked to it on Twitter and it went down due to traffic. That hasn't stopped them from trying to exploit that for publicity, of course. /v/ and /pol/ only helped fund it to try and 'gotcha' Zoe in the middle of her being harrassed and threatened by the exact same boards.
Don't have to listen to me though - her side of the story is documented here. It paints a very different picture than your average Gamergate proponent would have you believe.
... So I really don't see why she's in any moral position to judge anyone else that doxxes.
I forget who it was, I think it was a civil rights lawyer from Los Angeles... so we'll hear more about this as that breaks down.
But ol' Zoe has some esplaining to do.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Damn right! The law of the jungle, kill or be killed! First to draw blood will be the last standing. Juris Macto.
RIGHT??! Why is that not the standard policy?
Because the police are terrified.
They have to respond to any incident as if it was the worst possible scenario, because if they ever, ever misjudge a situation they would be held responsible for "not doing enough" to stop crime.
They have to respond in the most dickish way possible.
Just ask them.
Ok, she may not have been a great girlfriend for Eron Gjoni, but any actual ruining of his life happened because he wrote up that massive attack article on her and posted it to a bunch of discussion boards that had already been harassing Anita Sarkeesian and other feminists in gaming. Zoe will probably date other people in the future, though perhaps he dissuaded a few potential boyfriends from bothering with her, but anybody would have to be out of their mind to date him, because of how he treats his ex-girlfriends, and if I were in the gaming business (or whatever business he's in now), I'd have more sense than to hire him.
And did your post just make technology look like a more friendly place for half the population to work, or less friendly?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
of course she paints a very different picture, she paints a picture that doesn't match the recollections or the evidence that anyone else involved has, she even went to the extent of editing some of her previous postings to hide the evidence of her behaviour as it escalated. She behaved atrociously, she seems to be a highly obnoxious individual that believes she has some sort of exclusive right to insult and attack people without repercussions. That doesn't excuse the pathetic excuse for humans that launched vicious assaults on her, but if you whack a bees nest with a large stick then you have to expect to get stung.
I guarantee you this post will get buried.
The cover-up didn't work.
The week-long gaming press news blackout and user comment/forum censorship didn't work.
The coordinated, ongoing smear campaign that began with the "Gamers are over" articles hasn't worked.
The doxxing and harassment of pro-GG folks hasn't worked.
The endless train of embarrassingly desperate counter-hashtags hasn't worked.
The Wikipedia and Nightline hit pieces only destroy those outlets' credibility for short-term effect.
Last week PC Gamer became the latest games journalism site to update its ethics policy in the wake of Gamergate, joining IGN, the Escapist, and of course Kotaku/Gawker (though in Gawker's case, they put up more of a fight and the Gamergate pressure to be ethical had to be routed through the FTC). And there are probably more I'm forgetting.
Gamergate also got Brad Wardell (CEO of Stardock) some long-overdue apologies for hit pieces run against him:
https://twitter.com/iamDavidWi... [twitter.com]
http://www.gamepolitics.com/20... [gamepolitics.com]
http://www.zenofdesign.com/in-... [zenofdesign.com]
Ask yourself how much of this you've seen reported in the corrupt media (which at this point, sadly, clearly includes Slashdot). The anti-GG side thrives only in an environment of propaganda and censorship, and evaporates when faced with integrity and transparency. They prove the need for Gamergate every time they write an article based on the assumption that terrorism and child porn^W^W^W^W misogyny and harassment have become the root passwords to the Constitution^W^W journalistic ethics.
Which mean you can break my application and cause me many problems.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
And the members of the shitty Kotakuinaction subreddit you guys are bitches too, of course
She doxxed herself though. So, will her "task force" help other victims of self-doxxing/self-swatting, or legitimate victims?
Well, there's alsovthe proof demonstrated by the supposed pro Gamergate subreddit Kotakuinaction, a place brimming with ignorant shitheads chasing off any member who questions the raging asshole transphobia of Milo
Given the people involved, it's more like when you walk out of a pub and there's a group of people standing out the front waving signs saying "Drunks Are Abusers", "All Drinking Is Bad", etc.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
You are, hilariously enough, thinking of an entirely different game jam that Zoe Quinn intentionally sabotaged. That one was going to be televised and she got mad at being portrayed as a drama queen. (Gee, wonder how that might have happened?)
The game jam people are referring to was one intended to support women game developers. Zoe Quinn tried to kill it because they didn't give her enough money.
Because it is ZOE QUINN, her entire life is one big shitstorm brawl over gamergate. She fires insults and threats at them, they respond and she claims harassment. everything she is involved with publically in this area is to boost her profile and to keep this whole shitstorm going as without it she sinks back into obscurity. It is kinda amusing and sad really, she has some legitimate complaints, but her complete lack of grace and inability to socially interact with people except in slinging matches completely obscures anything she has to say. She seems to be a truly nasty vicious piece of work that is as bad as those that attack her.
Kyle was not at the POTUS speech to Congress.
Had he been there, he would have killed POTUS.
Sad. The millions of United States of America citizens are now rendered to suffer greatly.
If you want people to not associate Gamergate with harassment, you're shooting yourself in the foot by bringing up Gamergate whenever someone talks about harassment.
Try this: link to the /. article that covers the Gamergate scandal without screaming about misogyny and harassment. You can't. And that's because overall, the Slashdot readership doesn't buy the "misogyny and harassment" narrative for one second. The editors quickly discovered that the discussion thread for any article that straightforwardly mentions Gamergate--even if it's one-sided--couldn't be trusted to go the way the editors demand.
For a while, they found limited success by posting articles with the template "misogyny, harassment, threats, misogyny, harassment, threats . . . oh btw Gamergate" (i.e. a br But even that's not working anymore, and the editors' credibility on this issue is shot. Permanently.
Slashdot wants desperately to cover Gamergate, but doesn't want to be honest and up front that it's doing so, and especially that it's taking the pro-corruption side. In the early weeks, they even tried to participate in the blackout, which led to almost every article about gaming at all becoming a Gamergate thread. The editors/ownership knew damn well what they were doing, and it's silly to blame anyone else for the consequences of refusing to cover Gamergate, except with propaganda.
some corrections
TFYC aren't feminists, weren't running a gamejam, their project is going forward.
How can anyone stand this woman? Even if we believe her every word we still get: Called by a single person who apparently claimed to represent or be a member of some suicide support group. So she decides to lead a harassment movement again the site and all of its members.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
The irony in your post is highly amusing. The old everyone that says something different to me is an intolerant ignorant asshole, but I am just a confident person with a view that is different to yours. Your attitude is the problem and sadly I don't think you are capable of even seeing the ignorance and intolerance you are displaying all the while saying how much you hate it.
FTFY.
With all the bad press that 4chan gets, it's really SA that's really the source of the horrible shit online.
Where there's dirt going on online, you don't have to look far to find somebody following the SA trolling handbook. The're like the CIA of Internet drama. Goons wrote the manual for stirring up shit online, trolling, infiltrating & destroying online communities.
No wonder Zoe Quinn was linked to the "Enumclaw case" in some way.
Also "a developer" /s
nt
the central allegation of "corrupt media" in GG was a falsehood. the original thing where "zoe quinn slept with some guy from some games mag in order to get a good review" falls flat because the guy never wrote an article about zoe's game! just a lot of hate.
She doesn't seem to understand social media at all or how to handle it.
"Doesn't matter; had sex and got rich." -Zoe Quinn, attention whore extraordinaire.
developer? Please go to her shitty website and show me where she held a developer or programmer position?
doxing victim? She re-tweeted a dox and it was a made-up address but never told her followers. She is known to send herself threats & ddos and will then blame others (TFYC, Wizardchan and now GamerGate). This is what we call a professional victim.
Are you Zoe Quinn or her friend ShitLipz? You pathetic person.
sighborg @TheQuinnspiracy Jan 12
If you continue to be neutral of or in support of gamergate KNOW you're silently approving of attempted murder by cop pic.twitter.com/ehrtTT1eUs
0 replies 330 retweets 141 favorites
Carpet statements like this piss me off... I don't even support doxxing, but oh, because I believe in proper gaming journalism and disagree with forced cultural arm bending to get my group (be it feminists, LGBTs, asexuals, or whatever) included in video games, represented exactly how I want, I'm supporting MURDER. Great.
I'm bisexual, and I wouldn't want support (caveat: from my limited understanding) in the way the so called SJWs seem to believe in. I'm against the tactics of individuals on both sides of the aisle.
I have a theory about the secret agenda of Slashdot editors. It's actually a clever endless loop of business:
1) Slashdot reader is angry (or bored) because of the editors, so he decides to start a blog to bitch about gamergate, feminazis and other hot issues
2) reader goes to the Deals page to buy the $49 Wordpress bundle (93% off!)
3) reader puts link to a Slashdot discussion on his responsive and mobile-ready blog
4) reader's reader clicks (or taps) on the link
5) goto 1
Flawless. It is basically a money printing scheme.
lucm, indeed.
After 5 months of "GamerGate" there's been no arrests, no serious evidence of any imminent threat published or connection to any organized "harassment" campaign. Gamergate supporters themselves have been harassed, swatted, sent malicious objects in the mail and this is largely ignored in the media. Possibly because many of them took a different approach, and didn't kick up that much of a fuss about it, or perhaps because it doesn't fit the media's narrative.
That's a funny double standard there. I notice no one was arrested over the harassment, swatting etc. of the Gamergate supporters either so that obviously invalidates any right they have to complain.
I tried to read that page but this is like listening to teenage girls arguing about who saw that pair of jeans first at wal-mart the week before homecoming. The level of mental confusion and social ineptitude displayed in those messages is mind-blowing.
lucm, indeed.
taunting her "haterz"
I'm getting fed up with the "haterz" thing. It's a self-serving and simplistic conversation stopper, like "homophobic" or "patriarchal".
I don't "hate" Justin Bieber, Zoe Quinn or Jar Jar Binks. I just consider that those persons have nothing of value to contribute and are not helping to improve the signal-to-noise ratio in their respective sphere of influence. I would have to care about them to qualify as a hater.
lucm, indeed.
Will the SJWs get mad at slashdot for "harassing" ZQ by taking down her site? Im sure the slashdot effect, almost equivilent to a DDOS, will not help that site's network capabilities. They got extremely upset at David Packman, when he asked her publicly for an interview.
The only person who loosely qualifies as a "victim" is a psychopath who ran to 4chan with the deliberate aim of ruining her life. She should probably have told him to fuck off sooner.
You mean the subreddit where a transwoman is one of the favorite posters and got modded recently?
Kind of hard for Ms. Van Valkenberg to be the victim when she's the one calling for the damage.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Because no one will listen to any gamergater reporting harassment.
Here's a video with their hateful, vile and uncivlized message to journalists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr7u1tWsGBk
that's the one. It's also the same one that told a transgendered person that they must agree with them because they OWN tg people. Oh wait, that one was the antigamergate subreddit, gamerghazi. My mistake.
The central allegation no-one made?
"They claim it was for a review but there's no review!" is the oldest of the cover-up's lies. It was for EXPOSURE. And in an article on -50- upcoming Twine games, Depression Quest was
a) the only game sourced for a screenshot, despite being an unattractive text adventure
b) used as inspiration for the title of the article
c) mentioned first
In merely ONE of his several articles mentioning what is frankly a cripplingly unimpressive game even for Twine.
So sure, you can count cheating on someone five different times (constituting rape by your personal definition), isolating them from their friends, inducing panic attacks when they rightly suspect your infidelity, and any of the rest of the abusive acts found in the Zoepost as "not a great girlfriend for Eron", I guess implying that some people LIKE being abused?, but that's not really going to remove Grayson's positive coverage for a dev who has cheating with him, it's not going to have her not sleep with an IGDA staffer who is now in bed with a known harasser's anti-harassment (of her friends, I don't trust her involving "white hat hackers", someone who criticized her is getting doxxed inside 3 months GUARANTEED) initiative, and it's not going to have a reddit mod not delete 15,000+ comments after she made the personal request to censor the discussion by email.
It will still be an ongoing consumer revolt regarding the anti-consumer nature of the gaming press as it stands, including its backroom collusion with Silverstring Media and their ideological partners. A lot of the people watchdogging the press now don't even know who Chelsea is. Keep pushing your genetic fallacy though, it certainly created a temporarily effective smokescreen in the beginning.
I don't normally bother using Slashdot, so forgive my lack of login. ThisIsFrigglish on Reddit, if you'd like to follow up directly.
> because the guy never wrote an article about zoe's game! Yes he did. http://wiki.gamergate.me/index... FFS, he's even in the credits for the game. http://theralphretort.com/zoe-...
Confidence is not screaming "I'm a victim" anytime anyone points out she's wrong.
If all harassment is bad, why was zoe quinn doxxing other people?
You mean the game jam that was supposed to be a worthy documentary, but got derailed by a sociopath manager that tried to shoehorn a battle-of-the-sexes reality show unto the developers, so all them went on strike? Get your facts right.
they would make an excellent couple, seems they are both psychopath's. Both exhibit same complete disregard for others and a self centered belief that no one else has a right to a differing view.
Doxxing is journalism. Is it being done ethically?
She personifies very thing wrong with SJWs.
Pathan Grayson and Patricia Hernandez and Nathan's boss, and Stephen totally who all did shady shit are what is wrong with journalism.
Anyway, why is slashdot talking about zoe? GG peop,evmoved on from her bullshit back in August. She likes to think the world revolves around her and thre press eats that shut up but GGers almost never bring her name up anymore because she is just a blip on the radar of bullshit going on in gaming.
Thats the picture the opponents of the gamergate paints, and it is just as wrong as the image the proponents of the gamergate movement also paint. /v/ sees the modern triple A games as a heaping pile of uninspired shit devoid of any fun or decent gameplay, and many of em actually believe that the independent games are the last hope, and the very thing that will cause the next video game crash, thus killing all the companies they hate like Capcom, EA, Activision, ubisoft...
It's not about the corruption indeed, but not about "uh stronk independent women", but simply about saving the indie games from people wanting to ruin em as well.
You see,
And then Ms.Quinn appears and shits on it, telling em "see? i can get my horrible "game" up and greatly awarded and crushing more deserving games just because i got my *AHEM* skills" and thats kinda triggers em hard, because many of em see the last hope being crushed or hampered by stupid agendas and crooks.
Also that TYFC thing was not about "getting a good reputation" or even being truly good, but simply because the games if offered looked better than the "game" Zoe Quinn did, so was just a "do this, not that" message.
They're just a mass of blind people wanting good games no matter the cost struggling and hitting themselves in the process quite a few times.
She also seems quite sneaky. Her online persona is very abrasive but when she's interviewed on TV she comes across as super-adorable. The audience then think 'Holy shit, this poor girl is being driven to panic by those basement dwellers'.
Is clever manipulation and will backfire in an epic way.
If she was at home, and claim she could not return home, that is a clear lie, period. She could have qualified that outlining protection she had; she chose not to. You can spin it all you like but to call it a lie can only be accurate.
You've got a couple of small things wrong. Eron Gjoni never said she slept with a journalist "in order to get a good review". Go and read the post yourself. Even the job Quinn got (from a guy she was having an affair with), Gjoni said she probably would have gotten anyway, and certainly was qualified for.
You're right there's no review involved, but that was never the allegation. You are, however, wrong that there is no article involved. Depression Quest (and Zoe Quinn personally) got lots of positive press from Nathan Grayson.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
You are right the anti harrasment thing doesn't accept money but that doesn't mean it isn't designed to get people to fund her patreon further...which is exactly what happened.
This girl does nothing and she's pulling in a liviable monthly wage for doing that nothing via donations. Also as of right now her boyfriend is incredibly wealthy so she's living the dream. She's also in Europe a trip that was planned BEFORE the Zoe post ever happened to her blaming this on gg and saying she's hidng is nonsense.
Let's also not forget every time Zoe falla out of discussion, which is often, she starts attacking again whether it by directly insulting gamers or other people or posting pictures of her "drinking tears" or throwing "gamers" in the trash...point is she starts the shit storm herself every single time and every time she does it her donations go up. She fell out of the dialog again so she starts this nonsense crash over ride network...come on wake up.
One side of gamergate is a bunch of misogynistic neckbeard trolls who are pretending that their strawman of ethics in video gaming journalism is sufficient moral justification for all the hatred, bile and harassment they spew. They simply do not want women in their boys club of gaming and IT. They are completely inept with women and do not understand them. The other side are much of misandrist hipster koolaide hair dyed, plastic horn rimmed glasses, hipster, feminist SJW freaks, who get themselves off by offended by everyone and everything they see. They are more than willing to suspend the first amendment for anyone who disagrees with them, and producing games is a form of free speech. They are completely inept with men and do not understand them.
Both sides have mental issues that need to be addressed. Maybe if each camp gets some therapy they can solve the emotional and socialization problems they have with the opposite sex. It's basically a fight between comic book guy vs future crazy cat lady.
The money has gone to professional victim Anita Sarkeesian
she's counting condemnation and being critical of her "game" as harassment though... that being a part of the whole reason for the backlash.
a professional troll of sorts and other trolls getting involved in it. it's a fucking TROLLGATE and not gamergate..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Terms doxing and swatting are slang and have not been around that long. Recommend updating the article to define what these terms mean.
See my comment up thread, since I can't post it twice:
It wasn't a review, it was an article about her involvement in the collapse of a reality TV show:
http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284
according to Nathan they didn't start having sex until after the article was published. However that happened while they were on a trip to vegas together that was planned before the article was written.
Take that feminist sensationalism back to Jezebel
if #GG is truly about ethics in journalism, then why isn't nathan grayson the one being doxxed and hated at? he's the one who supposedly broke journalism ethics rules. but instead all the hate is directed at zoe, possibly because #GG is actually about hating women.
I went to 8ch.net/gamergate as you suggested. On the first page there were numerous posts talking about how effective doxxing is (http://8ch.net/gamergate/res/250844.html), and the rest was a mixture of planned attacked on various groups and websites, soft porn and complaining about feminists. Didn't see much of the anti-harassment stuff or the analysis of games journalism ethics.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm really tired of that line, "Doesn't mean she deserves harassment"
I've been in GamerGate now for almost six months. What I've seen is people like Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkeesian and Randi Harper harassing people then claiming they're the ones being harassed. Other than Anita Sarkeesian, I'd never heard of any of these other people before GamerGate.
Wu for example, created a twitter account BROLOLZ and used it to mock and harass GamerGate back in the beginning. When no one responded she created the "Oppressed Gamer" meme. Someone took that meme and ran with it, then she claimed people using her meme was harassment. Then she got threats from a zero day twitter account called "DeathToBrianna", there was no mention of GamerGate, but she screen capped it and sent it flying around twitter as evidence GamerGate had a hate on for her, that's what got her on a media tour.
I don't believe anyone deserves harassment, but what I'm seeing is people purposely going in and kicking bee hives, then calling for the extermination of bees when they get stung by a wasp. It's ridiculous, the media is eating it up and plastering it all over as, "these poor, poor innocent souls."
So yeah, I'm about to victim blame. If you poke a bear, it's your fault if you get bitten. I've lost all sympathy for people living under the double standard that it's ok for them to lie, cheat, steal, defame, dox, harass and threaten people, but then turn around and play the victim and advertise their patreons. Check the patreon accounts for anyone of the three I named above:
Randi Harper (antagonist, creator of the GGAutoblocker blocks GamerGate, which is fine. Continues to tweet at GamerGate and bullied an anti-GamerGate person off twitter for not being anti enough):
$2,422.86 a MONTH https://www.patreon.com/freebs...
Zoe Quinn (abuser, antagonist, liar, trust fund baby. Frankly we'd all be happier NOT talking about her because she's not relevant beyond the people that were involved around her [journalist, indi devs, indi judges], but every time she's forgotten she pulls some crap like this article to reinsert herself. She got in a twitter slap fight with Brianna Wu over who was the most harassed):
$4,000 a MONTH https://www.patreon.com/zoe
Brianna Wu (antagonist, liar, trust fund baby. She answered someone questioning her saying GamerGate was only 350 people with, "Thanks for the sexists remark" and accused David Pakman of running a hit piece on her for asking her how she knew it was GamerGate harassing her:
$13,000 a MONTH https://www.patreon.com/user?u...
^ this ^ is what a professional victim looks like.
I got into GamerGate because I was tired of the media BS about gamers being cis-white-male shitlord misogynerds. I won't lie, in the beginning, I didn't think GamerGate was important, it's about frigg'n video games. I thought it'd be like a week long thing, we'd write some letters to advertisers and the journalist involved would just apologize for being idiots, but it's just been one thing after another after another. The opposition to GamerGate is full of ex-neo-naizs (Ian Miles Cheong), pedophiles (Shara Butts), animal abuses (Randi Harper, Shara Butts), rape apologists (Author Chu) and professional victims (Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, Zoe Quinn, Randi Harper, Grace Lynn) all sexists, racist, homophobic, hateful people who pretend to have the high moral ground because they alone are allowed to speak for women and minorities (Look up #NotYourShiled). All pointing fingers at a largely harmless group of people that are just tired of being demonized for a hobby that doesn't hurt anyone, and the media eats it up. You can look into the background of just about any of the major GamerGate "targets" and se
> She's an oldschool SA forum troll.
Ah... I was having trouble figuring it out based on wikipedia articles. Her name is all over the place and yet she's only really worked on one released forgettable game. As an oldschool SA forum troll myself, all of this suddenly makes sense. What was her forum name(s)?
She must be laughing her ass off at all the press attention.
When Islamist terrorists murder people we expect Muslims to respond. It was done in the name of their religion. They could try to stop it, they could argue strongly against it. It's blackening the name of their religion, after all. When they don't they receive criticism for it.
In the same way, if you head over to 8chan's GamerGate board you won't see many "real" GamerGaters trying to steer things in a more productive direction. Like it or not, your argument is basically the No True Scotsman one. If you really care about what you claim the GamerGate issues really are you should either try to fix GamerGate or do what other groups, particularly religions, do in this situation and split off with a new identity. Like it or not GamerGate is what 8chan is using, and they seem to be dominating at the moment.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
please ignore this. posting to undo incorrect moderation.
You say Quinn harassed Wizardchan, but don't provide any evidence.
You say Quinn "shut down" TFYC's gamejam, but the reality is that she simply criticised it. They responded to her criticism, but due to that and other factors like heavy support from 4chan and GamerGate people quickly lost interest in it. They failed on their own, Quinn didn't somehow force them to shut it down. Plenty of references here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
don't give a fuck
useless heat on the internet is just that
of course, if it bothers you so much you have to take it offline, with harassing calls, doxing, swatting, etc.: yeah, you should probably be in jail
if you can't tell the difference between shit talking on the internet and real life stalking and harassment, you have a serious defect in your social development
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Neither of your links are to a review of Quinn's game. The first one claims there was some kind of link, to the extend that her game was mentioned in a list of 50 that the guy wrote. Not a review or article about her game by any stretch of the imagination.
He stopped even mentioning her after they got together. He did the ethical thing and stopped covering her work. Are you saying that even being friends with a game developer is problematic? Because I have news for you bro, most journalists have some kind of friendly relationship with the people they report on because otherwise it's kinda hard to report on them.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Don't you have laws against wasting Police Time and/or perverting the cause of justice ?
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_...
People would do that? Lie over the internet? No, we should just believe what she said even though her public posts on Twitter are a completely different story.
Only because it hasn't gotten non-profit status. Why ask donators to spend money that'll be taxed?
Better to fund it yourself and write it off as a business expense. Thenjoy after achieving non-profit status, have your Patreon supporters move to your non-profit. Then not only is your income tax-free, but your donations get a tax write-off.
Currently, Zoe has to pay taxes for her Patreon money.
Ever since Cracked.com stopped posting an article a week on it I'd have almost forgotten that GamerGate was ever a thing.
Ice4r and at least one other person were SWATed. KingOfPol was also Firetrucked.
OK I've looked at Antia's work. Under your theory she would have initiated the harassment. What harassment did she engage in when this started? Whom did she start harassing to create the backlash?
...I see nothing talking about how effective doxing is on that page you linked. I only see people talking about smearing GamerGÃhzi because they're infamous for, yknow, doxing in the early days of GG.
The #GamerGate folks of /v/ and /pol/ on 4chan found out (they who supposedly hate women) and so they got the feminist pro-women gamejam funded.
That's great and all, but at the same time /v/ and other boards were quite busy doxing people and spamming "five guys burgers and fries" and "he does it for free". You can't really speak of 4chan as a collective in other terms than that the sum of its parts is a waste of the parts without referring to several expletives, and I really doubt that anyone on 4chan would debate to the contrary ("ocean of piss" etc).
The whole gamergate thing is poisonous as a "movement", and it pretty much showed from day 1 it showed up on 4chan. It was like arming an angry group of peasants with pitchforks and torches and blaming the bad harvest on a witch. Sure, some will try to turn the tide towards something positive, but most just want to go lynchmob mode because most of the times there are no repercussions to those kinds of online activities. Kudos to parts of /pol/ and /v/ for doing something positive, but in the greater context it's a small drop of water in a desert of teenager angst and edginess and antisemitism.
It wouldn't matter if I posted any evidence showing ties to SA forrumites, or links to anything else, since you don't matter, you aren't interested, you don't fact check
That's the thing. Nobody really cares about it, which is why a 4chan lynchmob was used as a tactic in the first place. Nobody would have cared about Zoe Quinn and whatever acts she may or may not have done in order to get a favourable review. Nobody cares about video game reviews except the marketing departments of the publishers. The very clickbaity nature of those websites headlines show how hard they have to try to get anyone to care about them. But if you start enough e-drama around the whole thing, suddenly mainstream media picks up on it as a "huge internet fight" and now you've got spokespersons for inequality, online harassment, and god knows what else in videogaming, because there's no way in hell a rational person would want to side with the lynchmob, once they've been caught preparing the stake you wanted to burn several witches on.
why would you believe SJW propaganda
And that's the best joke of it all. Both of the parties have clouded the original shitstorm so much with their own propaganda that it's become a soap opera, all of it disguise that it's really just a fucking storm in a glass of water. Now there's ethics in game journalism, slut shaming, diversity in videogame industry, feminism, and god knows what else. Nobody in their right minds would care enough to keep up with the whole thing as it's become a Lernaean Hydra that neither side really controls anymore. The only way to kill it, unlike in Greek legend, is to stop paying attention to it, and stop giving Kotaku & co easy clickbait on the topic. The more shitstorm you cause, the more they make in advertising revenue.
The worst decision in this whole thing was to get enough people to talk about "ethics in gaming journalism" in the gamergate context. With the shitstorm that it was, nobody is ever going to take that topic seriously in any kind of context again, because they'll associate it with this particular pitchfork movement.
You want to know the worst part of it all? There are REAL issues in the videogame industry you could talk about and rally against in a civilized manner:
The final result of all this online harassment is going to be the end of anonymous access to the internet. And then we shall all be fucked.
See subject + this link (no small wonder why) http://slashdot.org/comments.p... just because apk slammed her trolling stalking harassing mouth shut on her stupidities regading hosts files. Barbarahudson ran like the cowardly multiple sockpuppeting trolling harassing stalking online SCUM "it" is http://slashdot.org/comments.p... when challenged fairly after he/she shot their mouth off on hosts files and had to "eat his/her words" for it in a "run, forrest: run!!!" evading facing up to her/his scumbaggery online.
So with Anita, she had NOTHING to do with GamerGate. She wasn't involved and no one cared about her until SHE started claiming GamerGate was harassing her. There is absolutely NOTHING connecting threats she's received to GamerGate. She received "harassment" before GamerGate, she'll probably still get "harassment" after GamerGate. And I have to put harassment in quotes because what she claims to be harassment a lot of the time, not always, amounts to people just disagreeing with her views, often politely disagreeing.
Pointing a finger at people and accusing them of serious offenses without proof is encouraging harassment and I consider it harassment in itself. On top of that, members of GamerGate actually tracked down one of the people who was actually harassing her, who as it turns out is a Brazilian click bait game journalist (YES, A FRIGG'N JOURNALIST)
She's also posted e-mails on twitter with names, return e-mails and IPs from people that were literally just people calling out her poor research, no swearing or threats, which is explicitly to have her followers harass whomever sent the letter. It's also doxing which is harassment. Criticism isn't harassment, encouraging your followers to attack people and posting private e-mails with peoples names that criticize you is harassment.
Rather than attribute harassment to random internet trolls and actually attempt to track down the real harassers, she's taking advantage of the media blitz against GamerGate to turn a profit. So, sorry, I have no sympathy for her.
I'm not talking about her again after this point because, frankly, she doesn't deserve the attention.
Free. You forgot it was free. It was released free on Steam. Nobody got rich off it.
Exactly. Anita had nothing to do with game journalism corruption, she is openly a political activists. The group of people hassling Quinn were the same people hassling Sarkeesian. Your sequence of events is wrong. GamerGate can after the harassment started not before it.
As for Sarkeesian I've seen the stuff written about her. The critiques of her analysis are included with all sorts of overblown drama and then of course there were the outright insults.
As for the profit her fundraising was before GamerGate. That's what resulted in her raising $100k. Certainly GamerGate and Zoe Quinn helped her move from minor to midsized feminist celebrity activist.
Mike was never swatted. He made that up.
Rather than a wall of text claiming to refute his claim, how about you link to twitter harassment that is actually able to be tied to gamergate instead of just saying that they are tied to gamergate. The claim was that harassment was being falsely attributed to gamergate, and you attributed harassment to gamergate without any evidence to back it up. If there is so much evidence that gamergate people support harassment, it should be quite easy to post links to it.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
It's kinda sad to see how many assholes there are on slashdot.
Now you jump from one argument (that the central allegation of "corrupt media" in GG was a falsehood) to an entirely different one, without acknowledging any errors.
I did not even say that gamergate is "truly" about ethics in journalism. Gamergate is about many things, for different people. But the supposed disparity you point out is nothing nefarious about. It's easily explained by the other things people have done - both the things they have done in the past (e.g. having an encyclopedia dramatica track record) and the things they currently are doing.
If you ask me, I think it's far worse for people to have an affair with someone whose career they can make or break (whether they do so or not), than the opposite. But I also think that Zoe is cynical, attention seeking and abusive, from reading the Zoe post and the accounts of people who've worked with her. And it's really alarming that the gaming media circled the wagons to defend someone like that, just because the case made them look bad too.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
ehh, most of those types of things don't teach you shit. Hell attending normal tech conferences barely teaches you shit. It's a networking event =/
While we're on the topic of Grayson's connection to Depression Quest, it's worth also noting that he is personally listed in the credits in the HTML source, having beta-tested for Quinn, and never disclosed this in any of his coverage. Promoting, as a "journalist", something that you worked on without disclosure is a clear breach of ethics in and of itself, even without anything else that's been turned up.
This.
it is the Scarlet Letter. Nobody hates the guy despite being 50% of the problem. Automatically in everybody's head, the evil woman tricked him.
> because the guy never wrote an article about zoe's game!
Yes he did. http://wiki.gamergate.me/index...
FFS, he's even in the credits for the game. http://theralphretort.com/zoe-...
If this is about ethics in game journalism, why isn't GG supporters focusing their attention and criticism on the actual game journalist who actually did the alleged unethical journalism. His role seems to be a side story in most of these discussions, when it is claimed to be the main agenda.
https://encyclopediadramatica....
Kinda funny as it seems that most of his claims were factual. She was cheating on him with a reviewer at Kotoku who did write a story about her video game.
It seems he was a victim of a horrible girlfriend who ruined his life by driving away all his friendships then screwing around on him.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
my problem is I can't keep up with all the BS. so many falsehoods and fallacies and anger and hurt flying around, it's like I'm swatting at a swarm of mosquitos.
Game jams aren't about teaching you to code and there is more to game dev than just coding. They were offering resources to help bring someone's game to fruition.
A.so, storing is a site for abrands to fabricate a story from selected pieces of content around the net. Referring to that is like referring to Philip morriss' ads for information on smoking.
if #GG is truly about ethics in journalism, then why isn't nathan grayson the one being doxxed and hated at?
Maybe because #GG is not about doxxing, and people doing the doxxing are only using #GG as an excuse, and would have found another excuse to doxx people if #GG didn't exist?
Criticism and scruitny is harassment. The internet needs to protect women from misogynist mobs.
*groooan* another person who hasn't the faintest idea what a No True Scotsman argument is, yet feels compelled to accuse people of making one...
Exposure of a FREE FUCKING GAME! Are you insane? Why do you mouth breathing trolls continue to go after her and not, say, I don't know, Electronic Arts? Oh, I know, because she's a tiny one person operation and she's an ICKY GURL! You're all fucking pathetic. And everyone normal is quite well aware of it.
Congratulation. You've personally proved all their points for them. Dickweasel.
Um...she isn't IN the media. Coward.
How do you imagine she got rich? Selling her free game?
Right. Because it's unsightly for icky gurls to fight back. They should just lay back and think of England, amirite?
You want to know the worst part of it all? There are REAL issues in the videogame industry you could talk about and rally against in a civilized manner:
The list really goes on and on... But I guess "5 guys, hamburgers and fries" was just dramatic enough to get things going.
Aww, hell! Now you ruined the whole thing! You took a perfectly fine shitstorm about nothing and injected some real issues into it. Well, stick a fork in it because this one is done. I hope you're happy now.
Don't forget Shanley, dude. She's currently mounting a campaign against Linus Torvalds for being a sexist pig.
Anita appears to have played the same game as Harry Knowles. However as she's female and attractive she got lots of press coverage while Knowles... didn't.
Originally Anita appeared to make a success of herself by fighting against trolls. She put up a Kickstarter, then said she was being harassed and got lots of sympathy & friends in the media to chip in cash. Result: A lot of cash, far more than the $6000 she asked for. The money was meant to be for making a multi-part webseries on gaming.
Knowles put up a Kickstarter to fund a film show webseries. He got harassed as most of his audience thought he was being a con man and were NOT happy. Knowles also got help from friends in the media thereby making his critics positively ginger with rage.
Fast forward a year or so. Anita's multi-part webseries she got all the money for is so far only three or four short videos. Instead she's set up a feminist organisation and is now apparently an expert on all things computery. Many people aren't happy because a) She hasn't done what she was paid for and b) Saying anyone who questions her is a harasser is kind of shitty.
Knowles meanwhile also didn't produce his web-series on time. He's finally got it running now (many months late) and regularly gets shit off his own readers for doing the same things Anita does (not answering critics, ignoring comments).
So why is Anita a saint and why is Knowles seen as a tubby conman? And when will Zoe and her friends mount a campaign to help out poor Harry and his online haters?
I suspect the answer is 'When something divided by zero is seven'.
I only just read about that last night. Something about her trying to claim Linux == GamerGate == 8Chan therefore Lin... MISOGYNNNNNYYYYY!!!!
/. I'm sure can agree to, but I think most of us would shrug it of as, "so"...
I don't know enough about her to bring her up here, but apparently she's pissed at Linus for being a dick? which everyone on
I'm not aware of her profiting off of it just yet though, but I'm sure she's working up to it.
The price of the game is irrelevant. There are many motiviations besides just short term economic gain. And it has clearly worked in this case as probably millions of people now know her name and what she does, and likely view her in a positive light. Name recognition is a huge deal, just look at the money that major brands pour into advertising and sponsoring stadiums so they can rename it.
Well I see Anita's recent efforts as being a lot more expensive than her earlier work. She clearly is running late and slower than expected. But this is exponential effort rule: 20% more quality requires 80% more effort. It wouldn't shock me if the current longer, more complex, better produced videos are 10x the work / cost of her earlier work and now she's drawing salary. She might very well burn through the kickstarter money. Think about the difference between a $5k movie, $100k movie, $1m movie, $20m movie, $100m movie, $300m movie. Does a $300m movie really seem like 60,000 $5k movies? I suspect she's learning that, though I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.
I don't know anything about Harry Knowles at all so I can't comment on the analogy though it sounds like you are making an interesting simile.
This sir is the BIG issue that everyone is ignoring. I've been watching the press coverage over the past few years in the UK and we regularly have cases where 'Twitter trolls' are hunted down and tossed in jail. A few of these are clearly criminals but most appear to be simply idiots. There was even a case last year where a woman who was mounting an amateur investigation of an unsolved child disappearance was hounded to death by the media. The response by most people was 'oh but she was a troll' even though by any definition of the word 'troll' she wasn't...
With the constant 'anonymity is bad, it encourages harassment' meme and the promotion of it through the Zoe story I get the feeling the real agenda behind the scenes in a clampdown on people's ability to be anonymous online.
The ironic thing is a push for people to post under their real names causes most of the shit in the first place precisely because it gives trolls ammunition. Feminists applauding this nonsense will be changing their minds in a few years while actual vulnerable women are being hunted down by psycho exes because they've had to use their real details online & so can't hide from abusers anymore.
Like I've said elsewhere the fact the game is free is irrelevant. There are far more motivations than short term profit. In this case name recognition is probably the biggest pay off. The reason it bothers me is that a writer posing as a journalist clearly sold out his ethics, and was then vociferously defended by his "journalist" peers who should have known better.
The really damning thing for grayson is that he should very clearly have known better. RPS had already had a bit of a bruhah over promoting a game without posting a disclaimer every other sentence saying that some of the staff was directly involved in the game. That instance didn't really bother me because in the original article they did actually acknowledge that they were involved with the game, they just didn't make it obvious enough for some peoples taste. To remedy that any further mention of that game got a big disclaimer. Grayson contributed to Quin's game and was actually included in the credits, which should have prompted him to include some kind of disclaimer any time he wrote about it.
I don't particularly care about Quin, though all of this has helped inform me to avoid her. I think the reason she continues to garner so much attention though is that she seems to revel in it and stir it up at every opportunity. It's not that she's all that different from normal drama queens/kings she just managed to jump into the spotlight and hold it rather effectively.
More importantly, with both Goon Squad and GNAA admitting to trolling the fuck out of th GG issue, the default assumption without actual proof must be professional troll.
You know this latter HOW? As far as I know, only one person hassling Sarkeesian has been identified (by GamerGate, in fact). A Brazilian journalist, as it happens. And when Anita was informed, she said they already knew about that guy.
Sarkeesian inserted herself into GG by making the claim that GG was the people who have been harassing her for years, but presented no evidence for it.
Being dramatic and insulting doesn't mean their objections were wrong.
So you really trying to say that it's #rupertsfault that pedophiles exist? One person in a group is responsible for everone else?
He never claimed to have been swatted. He claimed two people were encouraging their followers to report him to the police for spurious reasons, and that this was in order to get him SWATted. I'm not convinced of the latter, but the former is certainly true.
Because he wasn't the one to hijack the whole GamerGate movement and try to present it as 'anti-feminist with thin excuse of being anti-corrupt-journalist'.
The movement is random people, attacking 'targets of opportunity', Zoe was just one of the random targets - then she went nuts and - since she couldn't attack a movement with a just case - made up a fake case and presented it as the actual one of the movement.
Imagine you take part in a protest against building a mall over a park in your town. One of the protesters breaks the sign over the head of one of investors of the new mall. Said investor happens to be afroamerican, and a local Black minority activist. Next day you see the investor say to the press "Ku Klux Klan members and neo-nazis protest against Afroamericans' right to start businesses!"
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Even if you concede that she's had some online threats/trolling, she's the last person I'd believe it had some actual real effect on. She's an SA goon. She knows exactly what all this stuff is. She's not some doe-eyed innocent wondering how this here internet thing works.
She got friggin' 20 times the budget she planned. So don't make up any excuses for failure to deliver. People paid for what she promised to deliver, not for any allegedly superior product she'd fail to deliver.
If I request 50 cheapest McDonalds' hamburgers, and give you $1000 for it, don't make excuses about delivering two gourmet steak burgers instead, claiming that steaks are more expensive and more difficult to cook, and take more time. And especially I don't want to hear $1000 is not enough for 50 steak burgers. It's not what I paid for and what I paid is far more than enough to deliver what I paid for.
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Cernovich was never swatted. He also sells magic juice purported to give men addictive semen.
Oh, you don't understand the kind of grace she displays.
If you prove she's been factually wrong, she will find your house, break in, taze you, kick you in the balls, take your wallet, then call the cops and get you locked up for attempted rape. Then she'll give an interview how you abused her horribly. And she'll look fabulous all the while. It's this kind of grace under pressure.
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What? We've got eyes. This whole thread started with _you_ posting a falsehood.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"They have already managed to preemptively warn at least one victim of a swatting attempt in Enumclaw, Washington."
Why didn't they try to warn Mike Cernovich when he was about to get swatted? Oh thats right, ZQ and friends actively TRIED to get him swatted.
the central allegation of "corrupt media" in GG was a falsehood. the original thing where "zoe quinn slept with some guy from some games mag in order to get a good review" falls flat because the guy never wrote an article about zoe's game! just a lot of hate.
What she already delivered is well beyond what she promised. The quantity isn't there but the length and quality is. Besides the people who paid aren't unhappy it is people who didn't pay who are objecting.
As for 20 times the budget that is the excuse. It totally changed the nature of the program.
That's actually a fairly good analogy. If you give $1000 for 50 hamburgers the McDonalds has to go the steak shop across the street. While McDonalds can do 50 burgers in 5 minutes the steak place can't. So 30 minutes into it, the steak place is still cooking burgers while McDonalds would have been done 20 minutes ago.
I've seen people saying mean things about both of them. Generally bringing them both up together. This thread shows the connection. The two were at least by the time of the blow up grouped.
The issue what whether they supported the harassment. The dramatic insulting critiques mostly were stupid. I suspect they were right on some of the facts they kept hammering on though.
Wait, wait, when you say "hassling" you're not talking about death threats or posting of personal information or anything like that, you're talking about "saying mean things"? Welcome to the world... no one except Kim Jong Eun is beyond criticism.
Doesn't mean she deserves harassment. Condemnation maybe. Harassment no.
She should be "Cleansed". Or is it the world that should be cleansed? Yes, that's right. She's the garbage on the sidewalk.
No I'm not saying that.
1) People who dislike person X dislike person Y
2) This correlation grows stronger as the amount of dislike grows stronger
3) Person X and person Y are both being attacked more strongly (death threats..) by anonymous attackers
C) By (2) is is unlikely (though not impossible) that there is a point of disconnection. Hence it is reasonable to conclude that X and Y are being attacked by the same people in the absence of other information.
I'm not certain but it seems reasonable.
I don't remember if I finished it or got fed up partway through.
your point is well reasoned, except for the part that makes no sense which is everything. from day one, zoe quinn faced the nastiest of sexual and mysoginistic slurs and threats. it was clearly about gender from day one, long before she "made it an issue" as you say.
following your tortured logic, it's like a group of protesters gathered round a new store to protest it. but when the owner (who is gay) walks out, the protesters start shouting "get outta town, you homo! we don't like your kind here! go back to queersville!" Next day you see the press say "homophobes hurl slurs at gay businessman"
"from day one, zoe quinn faced the nastiest of sexual and mysoginistic slurs and threats."
Could you substantiate this? I mean, specifically, the number (to prove it wasn't isolated incidents) and connection to GamerGate (as in specific instances was actively disproven).
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Now you're repeating exactly what I replied to with comment #48863757. No, it was not a falsehood, because the media rallied around Quinn largely to protect their own nepotistic behinds. Yes, there were no reviews, but that wasn't the allegation. Yes, the guy wrote many articles giving Zoe and the game publicity.
Do you think you're "drawing fire" by persisting to waste people's time or something? In that case, I'd like to inform you I haven't harassed anyone. So Zoe Quinn is going to get exactly as much (or as little) harassment as she otherwise would, regardless of whether you keep up this nonsense.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
She's also posted e-mails on twitter with names, return e-mails and IPs from people that were literally just people calling out her poor research, no swearing or threats, which is explicitly to have her followers harass whomever sent the letter. It's also doxing which is harassment. Criticism isn't harassment, encouraging your followers to attack people and posting private e-mails with peoples names that criticize you is harassment.
The irony is that HotWheels got a Twitter suspension for doing the same thing, but with complaints he'd received from his registrar when anti-GG folks were trying to shut down 8chan by having the domain name seized.
WTF DID I JUST READ?!!!!
Hand in your nerd badge and GTFO, you've failed all logic and lose the internet -_-
You dislike person X therefore you dislike person Y for the same reason? No, I dislike person X because she's a hypocritical abuser, professional victim and people won't stop talking about her. Plus she's been give a free pass from being criticized for being hypocritical abuser and professional victim because of her gender. <== this is sexism at it's finest. If the genders had been reversed concerning the Zoe post, we'd be praising Zoe for being a strong independent women that called out an abusive ex. I know, I've actually praised women in the past for doing exactly that, but Eron gets shit on by people that NEVER even read his post, which has evidence FROM ZOE that she was an abuser. On top of this she's ACTUALLY used sex to further her career reinforcing the negative stereotype that that's how women in the industry operate.
She's rich brat that comes from a rich family and a horrible human being who's being defended for being a horrible human being at the expense of hardworking women and other indi devs just trying to make ends meet. She's taken advantage of her "privilege", real privilege, not this made up "you're white so you never had to work for anything in your life and the fact that you don't know that means your privileged" privilege, to ATTACK things like the WizzardChans, TFYC and GamerGate. AND SHE'S GETTING AWAY WITH IT!!
I dislike person Y, because she's a liar and a con artist that had NOTHING to do with the current situation, but inserted herself and claimed, without proof, people looking for ethics in journalism were attacking her. Even though THOSE people tracked down one of her harassers to HELP her and she's gotten a shit ton of media attention for slandering them.
Go read the comments on ABC Nightline's Youtube video with her, or their Facebook page, the VAST majority of commenters, including women, see right through it, but she's STILL held up by people like you as an example of how bad "gamers" are because they don't like being talked down to and told they're misogynistic shitlords for playing Mario because Peach is a "damsel in distress", by someone that plays a real life damsel in distress and HATES GAMES. Then when anyone so much as scratches their head in her direction, MISOGYNY!!!!.
Other than the fact that BOTH these women are using GamerGate as a spring board for attention they are completely unrelated. I hate a lot of people, most of whom are men, Jack Thompson, Nathan Grayson, Sam Biddle, Geordie Tait, Barnie the Dinosaur and the Red Power Ranger to name a few and I don't hate them all for the same reason, not even for remotely the same reasons. And God help you if you say no one else on Earth has a common hatred for Sam Biddle and Barnie the Dinosaur -_-
Correlation is a probabilistic assertion of equality, "with X probability we can act as if A = B". So no.
I'm not going to get into grading their relationship but I don't see abuse. If the boyfriend wanted an exclusive claim on her sexuality then put a ring on her finger. Otherwise she decided to trade in her fuck buddy for a better model. They weren't married, so let's not raise cheating a boyfriend to "abusive". But even if they were married he should have been secure enough in his own relationship to have dealt with her flirting for advantage if it was working.
Now let's look at the sort of unhinged rhetoric that I was talking about from this post above:
As mentioned the attacks on her started before the discussion of ethics in journalism. And we've discussed the proof above.
She's gotten pretty favorable coverage from the mainstream press once the story went mainstream. To the extent people know about her she's held in high regard.
No they don't like the medium getting the same kind of feminist cultural critique that other media gets. The fact that you identify with the media so personally as to see an attack on a game as an attack on your person is part of what you people like me don't like.
I actually saw that episode and she said nothing of the kind.
First of all who cares if she hates games? I don't game. BFD. But more importantly she seems to show a fairly high degree of knowledge of gaming. Where did she get that? What drew her to critiquing gaming? The whole "hates games" thing is another example of the sort of overblown rhetoric I was talking about.
Her behavior is fully consistent with an avid gamer who is conflicted because she believes the medium is inconsistent with her developing politics. I find her story quite credible.
Nonsense overblown hysterical defensiveness like the above is also a perfectly reasonable explanation. Over identification is another perfectly reasonable explanation. What isn't a perfectly reasonable explanation is a well reasoned disagreement with fairly mainstream views.
Again impossible. Anita's attention comes before GamerGate.
If they correlate strongly then it almost invariable is the same underlying reason. You may not be aware of what that reason is, but beliefs that correlate are driven by the same factors though the rationalizations can differ. I don't think misogyny is that reason, because misogyny would likely imply hatred for more prominent women: Nancy Pelosi, Condoleezza Rice or Opera are more likely targets for misogyny than say Anita Sarkisian. But the underlying cause being the same... yes.
sounds like a sociopath.
Correlation is a probabilistic assertion of equality, "with X probability we can act as if A = B". So no.
You've failed at stats and logic.
I'm not going to get into grading their relationship but I don't see abuse. If the boyfriend wanted an exclusive claim on...
I only discussed it because you said GamerGate hates Anita and Zoe for the same reasons, which clearly isn't the case. And no amount of you saying it's true will make it true. Her cheating on her BF, or her cheating at all, doesn't matter. What does matter is she is abusive, manipulative and a liar. What also matters is who she cheated on him with, but whenever someone tries to talk about Nathan Grayson or Joshua Boggs it gets dragged down to accusations of slut shaming and being concerned with her sex life. Move past it, no one cares about her sex life except you. It's not about her, it's about a society of double standards that's being used to prevent discussion of a series of events around a horrible human.
I don't game.
But more importantly she seems to show a fairly high degree of knowledge of gaming.
And here in lies the problem, you don't game, so you know very little about it and CAN'T possibly know what she's talking about, but you're assuming she has a high degree of knowledge of gaming. I guess this is why you think you're such and expert in discrete math, statistics and logic.
Are you aware she doesn't write her own material?
Are you aware that she's consistently factually wrong about the games she "critiques"?
Are you aware that she doesn't actually play the games she "critiques"?
Are you aware that her footage is "borrowed" from Let's Play? too bad she doesn't credit her source material otherwise you might be
I can only assume you're not aware of any of this, but you believe her anyway. THIS is harmful to the gaming industry, games and gamers. It's someone saying art is misogynistic and makes people misogynistic and people who don't consumer that form of art are agreeing blindly because she's an "expert".
Again impossible. Anita's attention comes before GamerGate.
You're conflating what she's received in the past and her getting harassment anyway to her getting harassed and saying it's coming from a group without proving that group is doing anything of the kind to her.
Why is she getting attention for her involvement in GamerGate from the media?
Have you watched ABC Nightline that was just last week?
Have you read ANY article in the last 5 months on GamerGate?
Because just about everything is saying GamerGate is harassment campaign and has her face slapped on it, but nothing's actually providing proof there's ANY harassment coming from GamerGate.
This is literally what the argument against GamerGate is.
"Kotaku investigated Kotaku and found Kotaku is innocent of all wrong doings. Anyone holding Kotaku responsible for Kotaku's lack of ethics and requesting Kotaku be held to better ethical standards is harassing women and misogynistic." - Kotaku
"Misogynist are harassing women in the gaming industry according to Kotaku, let's talk to someone unrelated to the controversy. Why are misogynist harassing you in relation to the controversy?" - Mainstream Media
"ZOMFG!!111!11 I don't play games, but why is this person that doesn't play games being harassed by misogynist?!?!??!! Well I better get on the intertubes and give those misogynist a piece of my mind!!" - Public that doesn't know what the hell is going on
"Um... We're not harassing anyone... We just write e-mails to advertisers for shitty click bait gaming websites and chat with other gamers on twitter about shitty click bait journalist and gaming related stuff... person unrelated to the controversy is entitled to their opinion, but they're not an
No, it was not a falsehood, because the media rallied around Quinn largely to protect their own nepotistic behinds. Yes, there were no reviews, but that wasn't the allegation. Yes, the guy wrote many articles giving Zoe and the game publicity.
Do you think you're "drawing fire" by persisting to waste people's time or something? In that case, I'd like to inform you I haven't harassed anyone. So Zoe Quinn is going to get exactly as much (or as little) harassment as she otherwise would, regardless of whether you keep up this nonsense.
if #GG is truly about ethics in journalism, then why isn't nathan grayson the one being doxxed and hated at? he's the one who supposedly broke journalism ethics rules. but instead all the hate is directed at zoe, possibly because #GG is actually about hating women.
You are trying to argue how you are reasonable people setting an appropriate tone and during that argument after I gave you a clear response that's how you come back. I think I've proven my point about tone. As for the math. Think about what I said.
No she's demonstrated a high degree of knowledge about gaming by being able to pull in multiple examples.
Why does her being abusive to her boyfriend, matter in a discussion of ethics in journalism? Also why the tone? That's the problem. That's why people don't believe you that you have nothing to do with anti-woman terrorism.
There was no serious event. She got an article that mentioned her game a few extra times. That was the event.
No I'm not. Again the correlation. Which BTW Nightline agreed with.
Because her argument is that GamerGate is a social movement that attacks women and not about ethics in journalism. An argument that others accept because the people who are arguing about ethics in journalism don't seem interested in say ethics in political journalism or computer journalism while they do have interests in anti-feminism with regard to gaming.
Just did. And well there is another highly credible news organization asserting that she is under serious threat.
Yes.
I just did. You dismissed it while being insulting.
Stop using the word "shitty". People unrelated to this controversy don't need to be experts on gaming they may very well be knowledgeable about how trade presses work in other industries and if this is about ethics in journalism gaming knowledge isn't that important.
For the outside people she'll be attempted rape victim that looks fabulous. Only "mysogynous haters" know the full story (and whoever learns, automatically is classified as one of these "mysogynous haters")
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Grayson gets plenty of hate. Along with other men like Arthur Chu, Ian Miles Cheong, and Jonathan McIntosh (the other half of Sarkeesian's Feminist Frequency). McIntosh probably gets more than the rest, because he posts dumb stuff to twitter all the time; he's got his own hashtag, "#FullMcIntosh".
After SWAT and other wanna-bees worked so hard on their door-knock-down techniques?
Toad
A bully running an anti-bullying network, what a GREAT IDEA.
What's next letting the weasels run the hen house?
If I had a dollar for every time I've seen Zoe Quinn BULLY OTHER WOMEN at events and online I'd be rich.
Have a read: http://wiki.gamergate.me/index...
Do you think people aren't seeing that you are just cutting and pasting, without ever responding to anything I write?
Is the joke on me, are you only pretending to be retarded?
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
Well I see Anita's recent efforts as being a lot more expensive than her earlier work.
Going on a professional victim tour to raise more money for herself? Yeah, very expensive.
She oscillates between fighting back and playing the victim. All you really need to know about her is that she's a compulsive liar: https://thezoepost.files.wordp...
There was nothing remotely unethical about what Grayson did. Despite what you think, simply mentioning a game's existence when you're NOT in a sexual relationship is not unethical. Neither is the fact that he knew her. Many many people know each other in the industry. And again, you coward won't take on EA, or Ubisoft. Just a basically one-woman operation making a tiny FREE game that was meant to draw attention to the problem of depression. Well congratulations. You troglodytes have managed to draw attention to depression AND Zoe Quinn. Far more attention than she ever got in a article listing her game with 49 others on a game blog. You're damn well written her into the history books.
Do you think people aren't seeing that you are just cutting and pasting, without ever responding to anything I write?
Is the joke on me, are you only pretending to be retarded?
my problem is I can't keep up with all the BS. so many falsehoods and fallacies and anger and hurt flying around, it's like I'm swatting at a swarm of mosquitos.
"You and the neckbeards"
Hmm, I thought feminist said that judging people by external appearance was wrong? Hypocrite much?
" don't give a flying fuck about the "gaming media." Nobody does."
You certainly don't - but not everyone is like you. Some of us are capable of empathy for other human beings. Try it sometime.
" A game is either good or it isn't, what award logos it has plastered on the cover really don't make much of a difference."
In which case gaming magazines have absolutely no purpose. In fact, by your logic, journalism should just quit; if gaming journalism's corruption truly doesn't matter, who cares what newspapers et al say? Things are good or they aren't, and we shouldn't trust a journo to do fact checking or try and eliminate bias. Instead, like your magazines, they should just shop around for the highest bidder and shill for them.
F**k that.
"What she does personify is everything that makes you seriously uncomfortable"
A liar? A corrupt person in power? An icon of a wave of feminism that has become indistinguishable from fascism? Wow, you got something right!
" a confident woman with an opinion different than yours"
Like Karen Straughan or Christina Hoff Sommers or Erin Pizzey or the author of Plebcomics - wait... none of those make me uncomfortable - but you certainly don't like dealing with them. You hound them. What happened to Erin Pizzey's dog?
"You're no different than every other racist"
Your the guy who belongs to the hate cult that's obsessed with the colour of people's skin.
" homophobe"
You realise many of us ARE GAY? Or are you the judge of whether or not we suck c**ks?
" woman-hating bastard"
Nup. we love women, many of use ARE women, like the ones you lot dox, like the ones you lot harass, like the ones your mob tried to deny funding.
"The good news? We're winning."
You announced in the magazines of Gawker media that "gamers are dead".
WE ARE STILL HERE. WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. SEE YOU IN HELL.
#GamerGate.
No the recent videos are higher end. More complex, betted editing and longer. That substantially raises costs.
Like I said already, I don't really give a fuck about Quinn one way or the other. Do I think she did something slimey, yes. Was it a breach of any kind of professional ethics on her part, not really. Does she deserve online harrassment, no. I can see your agenda in that 1/3 of my post was about Quinn and that was basically saying I didn't care about what she did, yet you go on and on about me attacking her. You sir, are full of shit and part of the reason why Social Justice Warrior is a pejorative.
Grayson definitely did something unethical. As a writer and ostensibly a journalist for a major online gaming site he is responsible for at least trying to maintain a modicum of objectivity and disclose any conflicts of interest he may have when writing an article. Hell many of the bloggers I follow, who are clearly just expressing their opinions make disclaimers when they offer their opinion on games that have been given to them for promotional purposes. With Grayson it goes beyond that, he was apparently actually involved in the production of the game. And he may or may not have been romantically involved with Quinn by the time he wrote the article, hint you don't have to be porking to be involved or heavily prejudiced.
What Grayson did goes far beyond just mentioning the game. In an article about the 50 best indie twine games, or something like that. He use the name of the game twice, used the name in the title of the article, and specifically called it out as the standout game of the 50. Only a few other games were even mentioned in the body of the article, the rest being relegated to an ordered list with no actual feedback. I don't know how closely you follow non-AAA gaming but that is precisely the kind of advertising that works best for that market. In fact it is probably more effective than writing an article clearly dedicated to reviewing and promoting a game.
I'm sure she's racking in the dough from her FREE GAME.
It isn't always about making a ton of money in the short term. Many people do things that boggle the mind purely out of egotism. Although in this case it can lead to wealth as well. If you had polled gamers here on /. a day before this all started you might have seen a 1% result showing that they knew who Quinn was or had even heard of her before. And you might have gotten as high as 10% for Grayson seeing as how he is a writer for RPS, I doubt it'd be that high, but I'm being generous with my guess.
If you did a poll now I'd bet the results for Quinn would be over 50% at the very least, if not closer to 80%. Grayson would probably only poll around 40% as his name isn't brought up as frequently in all the vitrol. People in the business of selling things know that name recognition is a huge part of increasing sales. You can bet dollars to donuts that whatever either one of them touches from now on will get a lot more attention. Honestly it's a genius move on Quinn's part, even if only a small fraction of people who hear about the whole mess look favorably on her that represents a huge increase in people who know who she is and have a positive view of her.
She sure is milking this, for all its worth!
Which isn't that strange I guess, considering that she's only a game-developer in the broadest, most generous sense of the word.
It sure must be aggravating for the actually talented women working in tech, that Zoe Quinn gets so much attention. Despite ZQ being a relentless hack, whose main claim to fame is allegations of harassment.
This is very nice and really appreciating. you can also see at the website for more information.
zoe is a crying bby and looking for attention. she making herself and everyone that is involved with her look stupid
another NICE girl doxed and raided by 4chan. instead of turning into a nutjob like these other girls kim handled it all with epic character and grace. she now well respected. all i can say is KIM AS FUCK
!!!warning good article but is NSFW, read discretely!!!
encyclopediadramatica.se/Kimmy
She personifies grace under pressure.
really? I would have said she personifies the exact opposite and displays a heap of ignorance in dealing people socially, her responses to some of the attacks on her are what helped escalate the situation. She doesn't seem to understand social media at all or how to handle it.
zoe is a crying bby and looking for attention. she making herself and everyone that is involved with her look stupid
another NICE girl doxed and raided by 4chan. instead of turning into a nutjob like these other girls kim handled it all with epic character and grace. she now well respected. all i can say is KIM AS F@CK
!!!warning good article but is NSFW, read discretely!!!
encyclopediadramatica.se/Kimmy
She personifies grace under pressure.
really? I would have said she personifies the exact opposite and displays a heap of ignorance in dealing people socially, her responses to some of the attacks on her are what helped escalate the situation. She doesn't seem to understand social media at all or how to handle it.
another NICE girl doxed and raided by 4chan. instead of turning into a nutjob like these other girls kim handled it all with epic character and grace. she now well respected.
!!!warning good article but is NSFW, read discretely!!!
encyclopediadramatica.se/Kimmy