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Woman Suffers Significant Weight Gain After Fecal Transplant
Beeftopia (1846720) writes In a case reported in the journal Open Forum Infectious Diseases, a woman suffering from a drug-resistant intestinal infection gained 36 pounds after receiving a fecal transplant from her overweight daughter. Previous mouse studies have shown thin mice gain weight after ingesting fecal bacteria from obese mice. The woman previously was not overweight. After the procedure, despite a medically supervised liquid protein diet and exercise regimen, the woman remained obese. Her doctor said, "She came back about a year later and complained of tremendous weight gain... She felt like a switch flipped in her body, to this day she continues to have problems... as a result I'm very careful with all our donors don't use obese people."
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Figure out which bacteria the obese patients have in common that the thin ones don't, and figure out a way to eliminate it.
Only eat at places run by skinny people.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
What in the name of god is a fecal transplant?
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
Yes.
After every meal, eat a skinny person's shit, and thereby retch up the food you've just eaten.
So, don't take any shit...
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Yes. http://gizmodo.com/the-secret-to-weight-loss-might-be-poop-transplants-fro-1265888152
Being ill takes a lot of energy, being healthy again but still eating and exorsizing to the same level could result weight gain.
I would think a search though the data should start to answer this question. Or relationship with our gutflora is more complex than can be summed up. There may be lots of changes in peoples that could be made this way. More collecting of before and after facts (even things like concentration, strangth, dexterity) should be considered.
I was born with bad genes.
I will try anything to lose weight, except do exercise or cut down on food. If there's a new surgery to replace my fat generating parts, sign me up!
Now you have me wondering if we can make dumb people smart, and mean people nice. We may achieve world peace through fecal transplants.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
She wasn't overweight when she had a persistent intestinal infection and gained weight after it was cured. She might well be eating more simply because it doesn't cause her discomfort anymore, or her body uses fewer resources because it doesn't have to fight an infection, or her colon has become better at absorbing the nutrients in her food because it's no longer infected.
Worth looking into, but if your conclusion is that the bacterial composition in the colon makes people fat, you're getting ahead of yourself.
I know its a joke, but not really. At the end of the day, humans are just fairly complicated machines, or even just a big complex chemical reaction.
Pretty much everything we do comes from either training/uprising, or from some biological system or another. As time goes, we'll figure out all of the later...and statistics will take care of the former.
Will be a very boring world probably, but...
no text
dude the summary...
After the procedure, despite a medically supervised liquid protein diet and exercise regimen, the woman remained obese
More evidence to support my hypothesis that gut flora plays games with us. All it takes is one bacteria secreting a chemical that makes us feel like crap if we don't eat the sugars or whatever it craves and secreting something else that makes us feel good when we do.
Maybe resisting that sick feeling and staying on course means the rogue organism will starve to death?
There are gut flora organisms which can't be cultured outside the gut, or even outside certain portions of the gut. We don't know what a lot of them do, but there are something like 2kg (~4lb) of them in each of us. Being quite small, each of us is vastly outnumbered on the scale that war against these beasts is basically genocide (How To Make A Vegan Explode -101).
In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
So that's the definition of 'humanitarian.' I always wondered about that.
If a fat person eats skinny people shit will they lose weight??
I don't know about that one, but having worms in your intestine can make you lose weight for sure.
See picture. It's just like a big bowl of yummy pasta!
Huh. I wonder if a whole host of problems people have after major medical events can be attributed to a change in gut fauna triggered by antibiotics. My body has just been different after my emergency appendectomy.
Are you sure it was an appendectomy?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
There have been studies showing a link between heavy antibiotic use in children under the age of 3 and regressive autism, caused by a commonly occurring antibacterial-resistant bacteria (Clostridia) proliferating in the absence of competition, which produces a neurotoxin as a waste byproduct (Propionic Acid)
This is why I find the anti-vaxxers so ironic. They ALMOST figured it out, but started blaming vaccines instead of antibiotics.
The presence of gut bacteria with such high efficiency (they ones that make you fat by being too good at their job) won't be counter-acted by the presence of the less efficient variety.
What this means, though, is that I can no longer feel the familiar sense of derision for fat people. Their obesity really may be a product of their microecology, rather than their laziness and hedonistic eating habits. Now I have to feel pity for them instead.
I guess I can still feel superior to them, since I still am physically fit compared to them...I just can't feel like this was the result of superior decisions any more.
Oh well, there are plenty of other ways to save my fragile ego.
Why boring? We've established that psychopaths are far more successful in modern society, so obviously the first thing anyone who wants the best for their children should do is have them engineered for psychopathy. Empathy is for the weak. Should make things *extremely* interesting...
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Or it could be that the bacteria break down the nutrients that reach the intestines better so that it eases their absorption by the gut. It is well known for example that termites can only digest cellulose tanks to microbial flora.
Yup, same here. After my wisdom tooth removal, I was prescribed Dalacin. I got a nice case of pseudomembranous colitis which sent me to the ER, with acute pain like being stabbed in the gut.
After being fixed with several IV courses of penicillin, I was "cured", but since then I have many IBS-type symptoms and have had to make a list of items I must avoid eating.
I'm fatter and depressed now.
Mostly random stuff.
s/tanks/thanks/g
Point taken. I stand corrected.
Couldn't resist :)
I tried that with rice cakes once. It didn't work.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
the important question is did the procedure solve the intestinal problem?
You do realize that there 'have been studies' that show a link from pretty much anything to anything else. These sorts of studies are quick, easy and quite often, completely wrong when attempts are made to determine causality. They're like bible quotations. They can say anything you want them to say.
Statistics is hard.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I laughed out loud when I read your post.
Yes it's dumbfounding how far off someone can get when the damn cliffnotes-like-answer was posted bluntly a few sentences from the beginning. More worrying is that the individual then thought they had enough grasp to then "teach" this profound understanding to others, steering pockets of society in the wrong direction.
hsmith if you read this, please stop teaching others what you think you understand. damn.
Ain't that some shit!
We've established that psychopaths are far more successful in modern society, so obviously the first thing anyone who wants the best for their children should do is have them engineered for psychopathy. Empathy is for the weak
No, game theory tells us that sociopaths do well in a society that is primarily composed of non-sociopaths, but do not do so well in a society where they are the majority (and that society also doesn't do well as a whole).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Here's a link to the actual study.
In brief:
Woman weighed 136 pounds, daughter weight 140 pounds. After transplant from daughter to woman, she didn't return for 16 months (according to my reading of the article). The woman had gained up to 177 pounds, while the daughter gained up to 170 pounds.
So this is more a case report than an study. Journals are used for communication between professionals. This doctor is saying, "hey, something weird happened.....it might be a coincidence (there is a lot wrong with this woman), but keep an eye out for anything similar."
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
You can always try yogourt. May give you the runs for a while until your body gets the bacterial mix right.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
BUT YOU Decide that maybe it is a good idea to shove some sterilized shit into someone gut
The whole point of the exercise is that it's unsterilized.
Also, only the gullible believe in "colon cleansings". You could get the same effect a lot cheaper by taking 2 bottles of Fleet, and you'll be clean as a whistle inside, but it won't improve your health.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Now you have me wondering if we can make dumb people smart
No, but you can make smart people dumb. Toxoplasmosis is spread via feces. It infects about 11% of Americans, and about 30% of people worldwide. It is correlated with lower IQ, and diminished curiosity. Infected rodents lose their fear of cats.
Fecal transfers, for people who give a shit.
There does seem to be a correlation between certain bacteria in the gut and obesity.
Part of the problem in determining what is cause and effect here is that most gut bacteria can't be cultured artificially in the lab. That ofc. means they can't really be studied.
Some gut bacteria are known to be beneficial for their host (Koalas can only survive eating the eucalyptus leafs they live off because of their gut flora. One of the first duties of a young Koala being carried by it's mom is to eat her poop to innocculate it's gut with the bacteria). So changes in metabolism due to bacteria in your gut are not only in the cards, but there is known precedence for it.
The role of the gut flora in health and illness is a pretty knew and hot research topic.
Could be. Yet another reason giving out antibiotics like candy can cause more harm than good.
I don't disagree - but we've got how many thousands of years of civilization under our belts? And the psychopaths are still on top.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Can you name a single primarily psychopathic society to provide even anecdotal experimental evidence for your claim? Theory is nice and all, but is notoriously inapplicable to human behavior.
Also, of what concern is that to the parents who can afford to have their children "enhanced"? All they have to do is ensure that most people can't afford "upgrades" and their children will make out like the bandits they were designed to be.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
So all those people who have been telling me to "eat shit" have just really been concerned about my health. Boy, have I completely misinterpreted that phrase!
There's a difference: people on the top are often psychopaths, but being a psychopath doesn't get you an automatic place on the top. There's only so much room there.
...Well, I'm not eating for the rest of the day.
Here's the Youtube video from which that image is from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
More excuses for fat people to keep stuffing themselves, because clearly their obesity is caused by anything but their diet!
I'm just about to have lunch, thanks.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Can you name a single primarily psychopathic society to provide even anecdotal experimental evidence for your claim? Theory is nice and all, but is notoriously inapplicable to human behavior.
I am not at all providing this as any evidence for the GP's claim, I'm just mentioning one of my favorite books by Frank Herbert; "The Dosadi Experiment". A planet full of sociopaths makes for a dangerous environment.
it's easy to test this hypothesis.
kill all gut bacteria from fat people and see if they thin in some cases.
and since in the usa almost everyone takes massive doses of antibiotics for even bad hair day, i think this is debunked with readily available data already.
I volunteer you for this study.
Now you have me wondering if we can make dumb people smart, and mean people nice. We may achieve world peace through fecal transplants.
That sounds like a load of crap...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
Actually the first theories linking the MMR vaccine and autism were that the combination of 3 live viruses over whelmed some immune systems and caused changes in the guts flora which led to autism, the simple idea was that the MMR vaccine should be split into separate vaccines and staggered so as not to overwhelm some immune systems.
Then the nutcases moved in with their mercury bullshit (most of us have mercury fillings right in our mouth)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
At the top perhaps, but there's *always* an "above my current position"*, and psychopathy seems to help with the climb. Sadly.
* Well, at least until you've become god-emperor.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
and since in the usa almost everyone takes massive doses of antibiotics for even bad hair day, i think this is debunked with readily available data already.
It's not sufficient to kill existing bacteria. You need to replenish the gut with the proper bacteria to test the hypothesis. Also, you need a good diet to sustain the bacteria that you want to keep.
You may find this article informative.
Calorie measurements of food are just estimates, the particulars vary. The gut bacteria of fat people absorb more of the available energy than that of skinny people, but our measurements of the calories in food aren't necessarily the max amount that could be absorbed.
To put it simply, fat people get more calories from the same food than skinny people, regardless of how many calories the label says the food has.
'Amount of empathy' is a scale. People at the bottom complain about everybody else. People at the top don't understand what everybody's complaining about. Most of us are in the middle, doing both things.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Have gnu, will travel.
Actually, according to TFA, she was overweight prior to the treatment, with a BMI of 26 (which is borderline overweight). So yeah, I think your explanation is probably the likely one.
No, game theory tells us that sociopaths do well in a society that is primarily composed of non-sociopaths, but do not do so well in a society where they are the majority (and that society also doesn't do well as a whole).
Please check your source on this, I do not think you can conclude that based on game theory, or even a reasonable application of game theory. Alternatively, how do you reach this conclusion?
That's the point, isn't it? There are no primarily psychopathic societies because they are unsuccessful -- they die out too quickly to create records.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
It's correlated with *increased* curiosity. Hence the loss of fear.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
You are right, studies can mean whatever you want them to mean, but that doesn't mean this idea isn't on the right path at least.
The basis is 2 main ideas that don't have anything to do with studies, and that really aren't in any dispute:
1. The human mind is drastically affected by the mix of chemicals inside the body
2. Permanently changing the balance of the majority of the bacteria in the body (and thus the balance of waste byproducts), will change the mix of chemicals inside the body.
It doesn't really matter WHAT causes the bacteria mix to change, but we now know that messing with it can have some serious long-term side effects, and some of those side effects could explain very common "epidemics" such as obesity, autism, food allergies, and the impending zombie apocalypse.
The obvious problem is that the transplant reduced her willpower.
The fact that a huge percentage of obese people 'suffer' from gut bacteria that split fibers into carbs is known since nearly 20 years. (I know it that long, so I guess the 'scientific community' knows it even longer)
I believe a doctor who is transplanting such bacteria should be aware of that ... and at least test the source first.
Playing dumb later is even worth.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
>It's just like a big bowel of yummy pasta.
There, fixed it for ya.
Your evidence please? I mean, it could be, just possibly, that we have never had such a society at all. A ridiculous claim, I know, except that psychopaths probably mostly all realize that non-psychopaths make much easier prey, and why would any predator want to leave a society of prey to join one consisting only of fellow predators who will have no one to prey on but each other?.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Perhaps that's why he said "game theory tells us."
Can you name a single primarily psychopathic society to provide even anecdotal experimental evidence for your claim? Theory is nice and all, but is notoriously inapplicable to human behavior.
Lord of the Flies.
Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
Look at it the other way. They feet cattle antibiotics to make them gain weight. Americans feed themselves antibiotics and. ?
It's possible that something in the gut biota can be put off kilter by antibiotic treatment and that's responsible to the (so far poorly understood) correlation between antibiotics and weight gain.
I know its a joke, but not really. At the end of the day, humans are just fairly complicated machines, or even just a big complex chemical reaction.
We are all just biological containers for our poop bacteria overlords.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
There's quite a bit of animal data from controlled studies. You're right, this is just an anecdote, but it does suggest that the same things might be effective in humans.
Statistics is probabilistic. Even when you do it right, your conclusion is more than likely going to be wrong.
"Studies" are what grew out of scientists writing letters to each other saying "hey Joe, look what I found. Interesting hey? You should try it!" They're not meant to be conclusive by themselves, but rather indications of what experiments are interesting to replicate and expand.
Conveniently, the medical doctor who advanced those "theories" and unethically experimented on children to "prove" them, had a financial interest in just such a split up vaccine.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
MDs are not scientists. They make a lot of seat-of-their-pants calls. Many of them even do so in the face of good scientific evidence.
Fiction need not apply.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
You do not gain 18 Kg of lipid tissues in short time with eating borderline normally. You have to eat way more than you need. It may be that some people have so inefficient guts that they metabolize their food badly, but the law on matter and energy conservation are still valid > when you get fat that quickly it is because you eat far more than you need and you do ntoyhing to rein yourself.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I am not going to take any shit from you.
Then obviously fat people need to eat even less food than originally thought and much less than skinny people. The answer to weight gain is still diet and exercise even if the same diet doesn't work for two people. If you are able to pull more calories out of the same amount of food you may need to supplement with vitamins to get the needed amount but eating less is still the answer if you are over weight.
I'm not sure what your post is supposed to mean, but mine just means, "hey, that reminds me of this great book!". As I said.
Sorry, was meant to reply to the parent of your post.
Can you name a single primarily psychopathic society to provide even anecdotal experimental evidence for your claim?
Congress?
sociopath check
dysfunctional check
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
I used to have a girlfriend who pronouned "bowl" that way.
He LITERALLY does eat. L2Grammarz n00b.
>> Now you have me wondering if we can make dumb people smart
> No, but you can make smart people dumb.
And, possibly, fat.
Occasionally, we might learn of a beach deemed improper because of the danger of getting fat.
Way to deny the existence of free will. Saying that everything we do is just a function of nature vs. nurture doesn't account for the idea of volition. And if we don't have a choice over what we do, the entire concept of ethics and justice becomes nonexistent. You don't put asteroid into jail for killing someone(as unlikely as it may be) because an asteroid doesn't have a choice. We put people in jail for murder because, at some point, they made a decision to murder another person. If murder is simply a function of nature and/or nurture, the person can't be held accountable for their crime, and thus they cannot be justly punished.
Sure, there is a lot than can be accounted for by nature/nurture, but that view of humanity is incomplete. Accounting for the ability to choose is what completes it, and we need to keep that in mind in order to not throw meteorites in jail and otherwise maintain the possibility of order and sanity in society.
"Violence is not the answer. Violence is the question. The answer is yes."
Even if it's delivered to your location via... stool pigeon?
Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
Probably referring to the Prisoner's Dilemma which is a payoff matrix that results in trusting players doing better than rational players.
Certainly, we should all be celebrating the diversity of gut flora brought to all shores of all nations by all shores of all other nations. Let us not permit this minor incident to instill in anyone the virulent notion that "obesity epidemic" is but a poorly chosen metaphor for the lazy stupid fat citizens of the US who should be replace by vibrant immigration.
Seastead this.
What? Full of Shit?
Free will is an illusion and the 'ability to choose' is a legal and social construct. You are wrong.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
Can you name a single primarily psychopathic society...?
Jeeze, all of 'em. Try to understand how irrational people are, one of the things that make psychopathic charisma so effective. It's why the whole concept of economic and most social studies are a complete fraud. If the world wasn't ruled by psychopaths, we would be at total peace with each other, with little more bickering than who gets to have the car on Friday night. I consider that pretty good evidence of your 'psychopathic society'.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Oh no, that's where you're wrong. The republicans wear the red noses for hire. The democrats are the charismatic, and very deceitful psychopaths, playing the weakling like everything is out of their control and therefore must 'compromise' with the other side.
Toxoplasmosis is spread via feces....
It's correlated with *increased* curiosity.
Ahhhh, it all makes sense now.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
It may not be quite that simple.
1) After killing off the gut bacteria, the chemical balance of the gut may still favour those same bacteria re-growing
2) It may be that the presence of certain bacteria is what's necessary to lose weight (e.g. maybe there's bacteria that eat substantial amounts of your calorific intake and convert it to something undigestible), and it turns out that in this case the introduced bacteria out-competed these useful weight loss bacteria.
Thats already an issue. Lots of people don't end up in jail because of "they had mental issues!! omgomgtheyarevictims!" or they did what they did because they had a tough childhood and somehow its a factor that reduces their sentence.
The most we discover, the worse it gets. You have the ability to choose, of course. But what do you think makes your choices, beyond outside factors/uprising + hormones/biology/etc.
Hell, how well you slept last night probably affects your choices more than free will ever did.
You're saying that you have no right to seek justice, or even care at all, if someone tortues and/or murders your family, simply because that person had absolutely no choice in the matter, no more than a rock can stop itself from falling. Just making sure you understand the logical implications of your determinism here.
"Violence is not the answer. Violence is the question. The answer is yes."
Except the physical amount of food they need to eat is so small that eating the "right" amount leaves them feeling ravenous all the time.
The feedback mechanism from their stomach is out of touch with their intestines.
Imagine if you suddenly only needed 3 table spoons of food per day to keep your body running and anything else was stored as fat.
You'd feel terribly hungry all the time.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Truly it is! There is a lot of noise recently about healthy gut and its profound influence on almost every aspect of our health. Good!
Back in the days of my biotechnology college education I learned a profound truth that I forgot for many years after that [partially because I went off doing physics and chemistry instead], until my own health got damaged due to unbalanced gut flora. A truth that most people on Earth are not aware off. And then I remembered....that this is not the planet of the apes, nor the planet of the mammals, birds, reptiles or whatever. This was, is, and will forever be the planet of the microorganisms! All the rest of life is just an overlay on top of the microbial ecosystem. The microbs are everything. Without them there is no complex life possible on any level. They determine or have profound influence on almost everything about life.
Perhaps at the quantum mechanical level, but that has nothing to do with human behavior. Human behavior is determined at a much higher level of abstraction that includes ethics, morals and the consequences of our actions.
Yes. Politicians have been feeding us shit for a long time, and it seems to have slowly made most people dumber and more apathetic.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Invoking the "murder your family" argument is equivalent to Godwining the discussion. You are trying to make an emotional appeal that overrides logical consideration.
That being said, in the "no free will" worldview - which I do not necessarily share - laws and punishments are part of the equation. Even if a person has no free will in the sense that his decisions are considered to be predetermined given his circumstances, law and punishments are part of the circumstances and will affect the decision. Even without self-determination, whether something is forbidden / punishable will affect the outcome. However for that effect to be in force the punishment must also be implemented. So while "justice" might not really be an applicable concept, laws, punishments and the concepts of right and wrong certainly are.
If anything, considering human decisions to be deterministic makes for a more cold-blooded judicial system. If you think that a person, given exactly the same circumstances, might act differently on different occasions because of self-determination, then you can't really write off that person as a lost cause. If, on the other hand, you believe that given the same situation the person will make exactly the same decision, then your only choice is to make sure the same situation never arises again. Sometimes this can be accomplished through non-violent means. Sometimes not.
Yes, links have been established with increase of antibiotic use and increase in weight. When I read the summary this was the first thing that came to mind as the likely cause.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/heal...
http://www.theguardian.com/sci...
Your logic is flawed. Let's assume for a minute that people's actions are predetermined. That means you are still free to do whatever you want, but someone with perfect information about the universe and your brain is able to tell in advance what you will want to do. It doesn't matter for you, you couldn't even tell the difference because you just do whatever it is you want to do, whether you had "free will" (whatever that means) or not.
In that case, if our actions are predetermined, locking up criminals still makes perfect sense. We don't lock up criminals out of revenge, we lock them up to reduce crime. The fact that people know they can be locked up for certain crimes may deterministically keep them from wanting to do that crime. And people who have been punished, may be (hopefully) less likely to do it again. And of course society is safer during the period they are in jail. You might say "it's not fair, because they couldn't help it", but that doesn't matter. In fact, the existence of punishment may actually help a lot of would-be criminals by keeping them from becoming a criminal in the first place.
Animals are often killed after attacking humans. Not because we are angry at them, or because we fell it is "just", but simply because we don't want that kind of animals around. Makes perfect sense, whether they have free will or not.
Really, what's the difference in "justness" between punishing someone who, out of "free will", killed a man or someone who killed a man because his brain happened to be wired that way? In both cases, we consider him to be bad person and we hope the punishment will prevent more murders in the future by that person or others.
Why do we punish children? Because we want them to learn the consequences of their actions and grow up to be responsible people. In a way we're just programming them.
Those doctors seemed to think it was rather funny :-)
Their gut bacteria are simply resistant to the usual antibiotics since they are constantly exposed to them.
Imagine if you suddenly only needed 3 table spoons of food per day to keep your body running and anything else was stored as fat.
Is this 3 tablespoons of uranium? If you aren't referring to a nuclear reaction, then what you claim is thermodynamically impossible. Using real food data, let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you were referring to pure fat, which has the highest energy density of all our nutrients. Here you go: 3 Tbsp of butter would be 300 kcal.
The metabolic rate for a comatose patient is above 1,000 kcal/day. Someone who is awake will burn more than that.
So, no, you're wrong.
Look here, brass tacks, thermodynamically: Heat Transfer and the Human Body
Take a body surface area of approximately 1.9 m^2, an ambient temperature of 21 C (~70 F), and an effective clothed skin temperature of 30 C (86 F). Therefore we end up integrating (2.6 * (30 - 21) * 1.9 watts) over a period of a day, which yields ~3.8 megajoules/day == 917 kcal/day == 917 food Calories/day.
Furthermore, the preceding calculation is for a human-sized rock that perfectly converts energy to thermal energy, not a biological organism relying on inefficient metabolic processes and which also has to power movement like a human does, etc.
Yes, there are differences between people in intestinal absorption of food nutrients and so forth, but there is a fixed lower limit after which thermodynamics applies. What is far more likely is that these people who claim they are failing to lose weight are consuming more caloric energy than they believe they are.
You'd feel terribly hungry all the time.
That's probably true, given the effect of leptin secreted by extra fat cells (remember fat cells multiply but then they stick around even if you lose the weight). However, that has no bearing on the violation of thermodynamics inherent to these "I ate nothing but 1,000 kcal a day and I gained fat!" claims. That's impossible.
So, thin people have fat/greedy bacteria and vice versa?
Requiem for the American Dream
So in essence the guy bacteria determine obesity levels. Perhaps they are too efficient at extracting nutrient.
You're only saying that because of the chemicals in your brain.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
**And unless the god-emperor has a cat
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Toxoplasma is not really a great example, it's correlated with slightly higher IQ if anything.
A better example is iodine deficiency which causes cretinism-> much lower IQ.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
And now that I search on that: http://www.medicalnewstoday.co... ... According to researchers from the University of New South Wales in Australia, when weight is lost, the majority of it is breathed out as carbon dioxide. Their paper is published in the Christmas issue of The BMJ. Prof. Andrew Brown and Ruben Meerman reported widespread misconception regarding how weight is lost, finding physicians, dietitians and personal trainers all equally guilty of not knowing. ... The results suggest that the lungs are the main excretory organ for weight loss, with the H20 produced by oxidation departing the body in urine, feces, breath and other bodily fluids. On average, a person weighing 70 kg will exhale around 200 ml of CO2 in 12 breaths each minute. The authors calculate that each breath contains 33 mg of CO2, with 8.9 mg comprised of carbon. A total of 17,280 breaths during the day will get rid of at least 200 g of carbon, with roughly a third of this weight loss occurring during 8 hours of sleep. ..."
"Majority of weight loss occurs 'via breathing'
I've heard stuff now and then from Andrew Weil on breathing, and breathing well is at the core of Yoga, but your anecdote helps me make a better connection to all that. It may indeed apply very broadly. Thanks!
I've heard in general exercise is great for health (gets the lymph moving to boost the immune system, to begin with), but in general it does not affect weight loss much because people who exercise more tend to eat more after a workout as the body tries to compensate. However, I can wonder if changes in breathing patterns somehow work around that issue?
I would be curious if you had any good tips on what people can do to improve their breathing along the lines of what worked for you? Are they different than, for example, these exercises suggested by Dr. Andrew Weil?
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/AR...
BTW, one other thing missed in so much discussion here and elsewhere on weight is the psychological aspect. People can talk all they want about calories in and calories out, and even ignoring how the type of food and gut bacteria make a difference (as well as your point on breathing). However, as Dr. Joel Fuhrman talks about, we essentially have an "appistat" like a thermostat for hunger, and what seems to control when it shuts off is how full we feel (in terms of physical bulk of fiber and such in the stomach) and also the amount of phytonutrients and micronutrients in the food. If you are not getting either (and the Standard American Diet tends to be lacking in *both*) then it is a continual psychological battle where your body is constantly telling you that you are not finished eating because of the lack of fiber and lack of good nutrients. So you keep eating junk (like processed white bread or sugary drinks), always searching for nutrition. The calories make you fat, but your body still thinks (correctly) that it is missing something, so it goes on trying to make you eat. And studies show that 95%+ of people on diets that focus on calories restriction fail in just a few months for this psychological aspect. We only have so much self-discipline. It is generally only when we change the nature of what we eat that we change our weight. Then we are using our self-discipline for only a short time (a few weeks) to change our eating habits and related taste preferences. After that, low-nutrient junk food generally is not so appealing. See also:
"How to Escape the Pleasure Trap"
http://www.drfuhrman.com/libra...
Although, your point on breathing certainly is another angle on that. As is the general issue on gut bacteria, since both of those affect how much of our food's energy is burned (without really changing much else) or how much is collected or goes through the gut. So, I'm
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
That reduces blood flow to the brain as well as other vital organs. That clogging is typical on the Standard American diet, which causes arterial inflammation in multiple ways including sugar spikes and then supplies "bad" fats to repair them (as opposed to "good" fats which we absolutely need). Sadly, the first obvious symptom of clogged arteries may be death from a heart attack or stroke. Even when people detect clogging in the heart and put in stents to temporarily (ofter a few months) deal with it, stents do nothing for clogs in your brain or liver or elsewhere.
Check out the writings of people like Dr. Andrew Weil, Dr. Joel Fuhrman, or Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn for a better way to eat that will also improve your brain power to be a better software developer.
In essence, the advice is eat more vegetables and fruits and beans, eat healthy fats like from avocados and nuts and/or free range pasture-fed animal products, get enough iodine like from seaweed and vitamin D from sunlight or supplements and B complex depending on other food sources, get extra micronutrients from seeds, eat whole grains meaning you can see the actual whole grain like a barley kernel in your food, eliminate most refined and processed foods including stuff made with white flour and processed sugar and especially processed meats with additives, eliminate synthetic additives like synthetic colorings and synthetic flavorings, avoid food with bromine in it as in many dough conditioners for breads, and so on. In general, eat a variety of foods of a variety of different colors (the colors reflect different essential phytonutrients). There are lots of nuances, and some things may not work well for everyone depending on your gut bacteria and genetics and lifestyle, so it may be a bit of a learning curve for what works for you. Most of that battle is actually won or lost in the supermarket, because once food is in the home, it is almost certain it will be eaten in reverse order of healthiness for various psychological and adaptive/evolutionary reasons.
See also this advice for if or more likely when you do fail a "stress test" for your heart and your cardiologist tries to rush you into getting a bunch of stents:
http://www.drfuhrman.com/libra...
"The sad thing is surgical interventions and medications are the foundation of modern cardiology and both are relatively ineffective compared to nutritional excellence. My patients routinely reverse their heart disease, and no longer have vulnerable plaque or high blood pressure, so they do not need medical care, hospitals or cardiologists anymore. The problem is that in the real world cardiac patients are not even informed that heart disease is predictably reversed with nutritional excellence. They are not given the opportunity to choose and just corralled into these surgical interventions. Trying to figure out how to pay for ineffective and expensive medicine by politicians will never be a real solution. People need to know they do not have to have heart disease to begin with, and if they get it, aggressive nutrition is the most life-saving intervention. And it is free."
Sitting for long times is also problematical. Look into at least a standing desk, and maybe a treadmill workstation. Exercises and good breathing is important for health too, even if the connection to actual weight loss is more complex.
Good luck on possibly a very long journey towards wellness. One I've been on now for many years, but with its ups and downs, wins and losses, forward movements and setbacks. A natural reaction to excessive stress is also to eat more because in the past stress meant future meals are less certain so it was good to fatten up when you could. Over the long term, the social, psychological, community, and even spiritual aspects of this entire process become very important. It's not easy to become well in our culture, with so many highly-paid people working for processed food companies whose job is to catch
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Get that shit off slashdot.
Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
Far more likely some people have bacteria flora within their digestive tract that is far more efficient and breaking down food ie releasing more nutrients while consuming less themselves. So when people continue to consume food at the same levels they start to put on weight. Likely the bacteria might be more effective at breaking down cellular walls of vegetable matter releasing those nutrients for consumption. Initial entry source might be from foods contaminated by ruminant faecal matter. So people that fill themselves up on vegetable matter in order to fill full without weight gain might find themselves now tricked into gaining weight.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
There are (though they are changing now) psychopathic headhunter societies in places like new guinea that have lived for tens of thousands of years by murdering members of other tribes, mainly as a rite of passage, although also for cannibalism. They have outlived all other collapsed civilisations, like the mayans, aztecs, romans by keeping to themselves and keeping their population down so that they do not exhaust their resources. Although kuru, or creutzfeld-jacob disease is endemic there, schizophrenia is completely absent for reasons which are inexplicable which does tend to point to them being physically and mentally healthier than most developed countries.
Your quibbling, missed my point, or are intentionally treating an hypothetical example as an actual example.
First- surely you are not suggested that every person who eats the same meal absorbs exactly the same amount of calories into their system, right? Because that's crazy on the face of it. It will be on some kind of distribution curve.
So given three people who eat "1500" measured calories of food, one might absorb 1000 calories, another might absorb 1450 calories, another might absorb 2000. In some extreme cases, some might absorb 750 calories or 3000 calories. (There are already examples in this discussion of people who can get 250 calories from a serving of brocolli while others only get 100 calories).
The last person could only eat 750 calories worth of food per day and not gain weight. They'd probably need to take vitamins to meet their nutritional requirements. And they'd be eating so little physical food that they would feel like they were starving all the time. Whenever they ate like "normal" people, they would gain weight even if they exercised.
Perhaps if your last statement reads: "I ate only the amount of food that most people absorb 1,000 kcal from each day and I gained fat!"
Last factoid: I'm in the reverse case. I can eat heartily and I do not gain weight. Plenty of butter too. My weight only varies by the liquid I just drank and the food I just ate. I have a friend who must eat heartily or he loses weight because he has a kidney problem. He can't gain weight even when gorging. His body is terrible at absorbing calories from food.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
well, only if the person in question has access to food and keeps eating it.
on the other hand, if she had a faulty digestive system before and then kept just eating the same way after fixing it, it's not that hard to conceive that she gained weight.
and god forbid it being her fault of course. it's never the fatties fault that the fattie keeps eating and eating and eating and doesn't count the calories or how many cokes there can be in a day..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
LOL! I keep thinking of that zombie fungus that some insects get that tells them to go drown themselves....
Perhaps your stomach does have some influence over your food craving...
"I dunno, but my gut tells me that I need to eat those donuts!" :)
Last point- I agree there are people who gorge/binge eat and say they or not or that they are dieting and who then gain weight. And that's probably the most common case because food diaries work so well.
But I am saying there are plenty of metabolic disorders which cause weight gain. And it's a fact that some stomach bugs help us digest certain foods (such as seaweed) which are indigestible for anyone lacking those stomach bugs. And heredity plays a strong factor in weight gain via several factors.
And so it's not unreasonable that some people are just screwed when it comes to weight gain.
(this was meant to go out last night but it got caught by the 5 minute restriction and then I forgot about it and went to bed. lol).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I try my best. It can be a bit of a challenge when you know a few languages that have very different and sometimes conflicting grammar rules. Cases alone can be a headache when you switch between, say, German and Russian. At least that problem is something you can mostly ignore in English.
Actually I'm quite glad English has such an easy and very intuitively understandable grammar structure. Compared to nightmares like Finnish or (at least to me) Russian it's been very easy to pick up. Explains why it became the de facto lingua franca.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's BMI was 33 when he won Mr. Universe. BMI is somewhat useful in statistical analysis, but rarely relevent for a single case with no other information.
From Genesis 41:20-21:
The lean, ugly cows ate up the seven fat cows that came up first. But even after they ate them, no one could tell that they had done so; they looked just as ugly as before. Then I woke up.
It was just a dream... B-)
I don't like to quote something possibly over-used, but "Absence of proof is not proof of absence."
To adequately prove psychopaths don't thrive in a primarily psychopathic society, we'd have to run several experiments where varying groups of people try to form a society with a range of ratios between normal and psychopathic people.
I'd hate to be the one normal guy in that group!
There is some evidence to support this. Dr Karl Kruszelnicki (Australian science presenter and MD) produces an excellent series of podcasts, and a couple cover exactly this topic. The presumed mechanism was transplanting intestinal flora/fauna that were more efficient at converting non digestible material (eg, cellulose) into something the body could use.