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Trump Targets the Abuse of H-1B Visas
An anonymous reader writes: As part of Trump's comprehensive immigration overhaul, his plan not only addresses immigrants who enter or stay in the country illegally, but also the H-1B visa program and its well-documented abuses. Parts of the proposal include requirements to offer positions to U.S. STEM graduates and effectively requiring a minimum wage for hiring out of the country that would make it prohibitive to do so.
I might actually vote for him because of this policy. Never thought I would say that.
I'm starting to like this Trump guy.
Thanks to Drudge for posting it.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/1...
Paleoconservatives like Pitchfork Pat have been fighting for the American middle class and against neocons and the Chamber of Commerce for decades. It's just strange that the person who ends up bringing these ideas into the mainstream is a multibillionaire.
I usually have a good, long trump when I'm on the can
I sense a great disturbance in the Force, as though millions of independent-minded correct-thinking Slashdotters crying out in confusion about what opinion they're supposed to have about Donald Trump...
It was there to fill a claimed temporary shortage, but it had the inevitable result of driving down wages and thus reducing people training to enter the field. It should have been killed a long time ago, there are other visa categories that can be matched for skilled labour.
The H1b has some benefits for US employers, particularly it locks the employee in, they can't switch to a better job, Zuckerberg loves them, his slave army, but it gives H1Bs an advantage even for the same pay grade.
Plus at the end, they leave, fully trained, and ready to work at your offshore division for a wage lower than the US and above the local wage, thus exporting the job and the skills.
Maybe managing shit loads of business makes you a crazy bastard but actually quite good at business.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1...
""
Like many of you, I have been entertained by the unstoppable clown car that is Donald Trump. On the surface, and several layers deep as well, Trump appears to be a narcissistic blow-hard with inadequate credentials to lead a country.
The only problem with my analysis is that there is an eerie consistency to his success so far. Is there a method to it? Is there some sort of system at work under the hood?
Probably yes. Allow me to describe some of the hypnosis and persuasion methods Mr. Trump has employed on you. (Most of you know I am a trained hypnotist and this topic is a hobby of mine.)
""
Trump is a complicated subject... because its insane... but the situation is so nutty that he starts to make sense... which tells you how insane the situation is...
Americans are furious. Both sides of the political spectrum.
Republicans are pissed.
Democrats are pissed.
No one trusts anyone.
Both side's politicians are full of shit.
There is a general consensus that the elites are fucking over the people at large.
The republicans tried to purge their own party with the "tea party" and similar things. Democrats only see this form their perspective but they don't realize that a fair amount of the animus was directed at the establishment republicans which is why the establishment doesn't like the tea party.
The democrats tried to purge their own party with stuff like code pink, occupy wall street, and now black lives matter.
And all of this is failing. The Establishment of both parties is very good at stonewalling this stuff. Black Lives Matter shows up to a Bernie speech and basically takes it over. They try the same thing at a Hillary speech and they don't even get in the front door. Think about that.
And that's basically what has been going on. So what is Donald Trump?
In my view, he's a purgative. A drug you take to induce vomiting. You accidentally eat poison... it has to get out. So you take a purgative... and you vomit.
The American electorate has been dry heaving for decades. We're that cat that just can't seem to get up that golf ball sized fur ball. And we just stand there back arched... dry heaving trying to get it out.
Do I like Donald? He's a weird guy. But I think BOTH parties should have someone like him running. Because Hillary is business as usual, Bernie is weak, and I've not seen anyone else out of them that is ready to challenge the establishment.
To paraphrase Augustus, "things that can't go on forever - don't."... The status quo is not acceptable. The corruption, the incompetence, the deceit... it has to stop.
We tried just voting them out. That failed.
We tried splinter political factions. That failed.
We tried lobbying and bribery to make them stop. That failed.
So... we're open to the "unstoppable clown car" that is Donald Trump.
If this fails as well... it just means the madness will be escalated another notch. This is not stopping.
Something that I think the establishment is starting to wake up to is that people are f'ing furious. And while some may giggle at the fury, it is unwise to not appreciate that people behave increasingly unpredictably as the fury builds. The sort of rage that is building is the kind where you rip off your OWN arm and beat someone to death with it. The establishment can't handle that.
I assume Donald is going to lose here... but whomever does win... whomever is in charge... they're going to have to change the way things are done. Because the whole "you need to pass the law to see what is in it" thing along with powerful people blatantly violating federal law and getting away with it... The big powerful companies fucking up and then getting bailed out by everyone that didn't fuck up.
This is starting to get dangerous.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Presidential elections are like software versions. They promise great new features, they promise to fix existing bugs.
Once you buy it on the promises, the fix or feature is slotted for the next version or update.
Most of the time you will forget it was promised or by they time they get to version 3, it will be a problem for the new development team.
Remember, the president is like a CEO/Sales person. He can not really fix any of the issues, he can only suggest that it be fixed and push others to fix it.
The problem with the clinically insane is once in a while, they make a cogent point.
They're still bug-fuck crazy, though.
If you throw up enough backwards left-handed three-pointers, eventually one will go in. That doesn't mean you're cut out for the NBA.
There are what appears to be some sound ideas even in the craziest of extremists, but getting the occasional right answer does not justify the backwards thinking. Here's a great example: http://projects.aljazeera.com/... Matthew Heimbach is crazy, and yet he hits the mark occasionally. That doesn't decrease the crazy, just at Trump wanting to eliminate H-1Bs doesn't make his immigration policy sound.
It's amazing that we live in a society where people constantly complain that bad boys clean up with women and we have a bad boy worth billions, saying what's on the minds of 10s of millions while the "respectable candidates" dither and call for "civility" and people think he's going to lose hard with women.
My prediction: if it's Sanders or O'Malley, he'll clean their clock with the female vote. Even Hillary will be shocked to find a lot of women defecting because Trump will be the first alpha maleish candidate we've had since at least Kennedy.
People will vote for him because his response to things like China will not be civil, but "fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on." Trump is a candidate that Putin will respect; most of the candidates from either party, not so much.
Not the symptom or its manifestation.
The fundamental problem is that few US citizens are motivated to attain high levels of education, and to earn their wages / wealth by contributing to society, rather than living off subsidies doled out by the guvment.
A related problem is the high debts incurred in the process of getting educated, thereby creating wage slaves.
Another less fundamental problem is that the dollar is artificially high, and kept there by vested interests. If the market value of the dollar reflects its true worth, people from India will neither be motivated to move in to the US, nor supply manpower, because it will yield fewer rupees.
So long as these basic issues are addressed, we will see more of such Hem and Haw, dithering and filibustering, rather than resolution.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
I'd be inclined to see whether his various business ventures have exhibited this sort of hiring policy; or whether he's a "Buy American!" sort of guy when looking for votes; and a buy Mexican sort of guy when looking for labor...
Trump CLEARLY would never say anything that wasn't true or self serving... [/sarcasm]
Seriously, anyone thinking of actually voting for this guy is an idiot. Trump may be good for a laugh but he is not presidential material. We need someone who will actually try to understand issues before spewing whatever dumb idea jumps first into his mouth. Someone who has more nuance to their rhetoric than calling people "losers" or "rapists". There should be some dignity to the office and dignity is something Trump completely lacks. He might have said something that appeals on this one issue but that hardly makes him the guy you should vote for.
I've watched this abuse live in action as off shore is hired over local. Money leaves the USA and so does the skills. There is this false perception that they can't fill the positions with locals but it's more like the bottom line is jacked up when you have slaves. Also any CTO or even CEOs guess what these H1Bs arrive do the work and then leave which deteriorates your company. You may not see it at your level but I've seen it happen and continue to happen. Take a look at some of the retail technology companies, I'm thinking of Target and in particular Macys.
If someone jabbers on enough- EVENTUALLY they will say something I agree with....
because I've never see /.ers so terrified of a single man before.
I still wouldn't vote for him. That said he really is what the political process needs. In his rantings he has brought up a number of things that should be discussed. Like it or not he has proposed something on dealing with ISIS, he brought up the illegal immigration issue in a very bold and blunt way, same thing with the H-1B visa issue. Unlike most candidates he is providing a bold vision that others must address which unfortunately his opponents are just dithering on or quietly stating me too. He has a huge cult of personality thing going for him which allows him to get away with saying some of the things he has said. He may very well be the next Jessie Ventura, someone who is running to stir the pot but ends up winning.
Time to offend someone
...is kind of interesting. Have we had any candidate outsdie of the far left who's done anything besides outright supporting the H1B program as big business likes it, quietly going along with it or ignoring it? It sure seems like the most common reactions among both parties are to either vigorously support H1B programs because they want support from big business or dot-com, pretend it isn't an issue or stake out some kind of multiculturist pro-immigration position claiming we need the world's best and brightest. The latter is at least a position that sounds rational but seldom includes changes to the program to eliminate abuses and usually just ends up being an entity that didn't get the visas they wanted for the people they wanted.
To me that Trump is critical of this in at least a somewhat thoughtful way shows an interesting policy position. Either it shows Trump is more intelligent than he seems or at least is far savvier in staking out positions than might be expected from his bellicose pronouncements.
It's too easy to say he's just pandering to natvist sentiments because I don't think the H1B visa program has the kind of visibility among the kinds of people who hate immigration because immigrants are brown and talk funny.
For me it depends on if (1) Trump truly believes in this issue and (2) he would take action in office as forceful as people believe he would. With the expanding power of Executive Actions, I am guessing that would be his trump card (oof) against a Republican Congress who chose not to or could not go along with his plans. Many I've spoke with don't doubt that Trump has the resolve to do things differently in the Oval Office, for better or worse, to try to shape the country to his views.
I've seen others share videos of him dating back decades reiterating essentially this position, so I am convinced that on this issue he does follow through.
So we can compare and contrast Trump vs. Madame Moneyshill. If you want to find yourself training your own personal replacement in the near future, you know who to vote for...
h1b is a much smaller problem of outsourcing jobs outside US when compared to larger outsourcing of manufacturing goods at cheaper cost in countries like China. The idea should be to somehow reduce cost of manufacturing or creating goods and services within America so that the external dependency is reduced and eventually have more jobs in U.S.
I'm a Burns booster!
Why does it matter? Don't hate the player, hate the game. It doesn't bother me if Trump as a businessman engaged in standard business practices. He's now saying the game sucks and needs to be changed.
It's almost axiomatic that we need immigration reforms. Saying that fact is hardly a revelation. The real question is WHAT changes. Saying we need change without a credible and achievable plan to do it is meaningless. Nothing that has come out of Trump's mouth is a credible plan for change. It's rhetoric designed to pander to people who are already pissed off about the issue. Pointing out the obvious fact that there is a problem does not constitute a plausible plan to fix it.
What I would do is to force people to pay market rate and then tax them on that.
You provide an incentive for training people and promoting from within while still allowing companies access to skills from the international labour pool.
The number of issues Donald Trump is right about has risen from 0 to 1!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Donald Trump is almost 70 now. He has been a rich celebrity in New York City for 30+ years. He got to enjoy the amenities that New York City can offer, and he got to schmooze with all sorts of celebrities, as a big cheeze. Trump has a big ego, and being president of the United States would be a great way to stoke his ego. Especially if many people end up calling him a great president. I don't think he wants to be considered as bad as George W. Bush.
Okay.. now its got serious. I can vote for this guy.
But I despise our corporate overlords more...and nothing he has said I have cared about...
until this...fuck our corporate overlords
I may fucking vote Trump...
Bush or Obama
Silicon Valley capitalism is not perfect. Both American and migrant employees have been abused by H1B.
As a European I must say that if it were possible I'd vote for Trump. He says what he thinks.
And as has been pointed out earlier in the thread a Trump presidency would be fun !!! Who know he might even be able to do something with you utterly broken, failed, democracy.
Trump's immigration reform is not "comprehensive". Whatever you think of the migrant workers in the south, the US immigration system is really broken in many other ways on many other issues. Conservative republicans are so worried about workers from Mexico that they block all other attempts at immigration reform, this is no exception. The H1-B stuff is a undeveloped tag-on to attract tech voters and it's the only non-mexican border reform proposed.
Much of the computer industry is already offshored and many more will be if US paychecks rise relative to the rest of the world.
Some jobs like running wires and installing equipment has to be done locally.
A lot more has to be done domesticly or is too expensive to offshore for legal/regulatory-compliance reasons or fear of a non-US government sniffing the wire.
As for the rest, it's ours to keep as long as we can do it better and more efficiently than the rest of the world. Dropping HB-1 visas may actually depress non-US wages making offshoring more attractive than it already is for many businesses.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I'd rather fight for jobs here in America w/ foreigners instead of fighting for jobs in India. Unless he plans to excessively tariff/tax companies that hire outsourced workers, this won't make much difference. Companies using the H-1B visa will be forced to manage their foreign workers overseas instead. At least with H-1B, they would pay taxes and help the local economy.
Regardless of why they are here, illegal or human trafficked, the end result is a multitude of people of hyphenated origin brought here by the corporate oligarchy, either to mow their lawn or reboot their softphone, the effect on the country is a net negative.
Every time I see a black kid shot on TV I can't help but think they are just making room for the new permanent underclass of citizen here in the US, in order to do that they have to get rid of the old one. The government wants quiet, submissive, un-invested consumers to help their buddies in big business and to pay whatever is left in the form of taxes, nothing more.
Remember, the president is like a CEO/Sales person. He can not really fix any of the issues, he can only suggest that it be fixed and push others to fix it.
Well said...seems every election year, people forget that most of the issues the candidates claim they will fix, actually require Congress to fix them. The President relies upon 535 House members and 100 Senators to actually do any of their promises...hence, most don't happen.
How about abolishing the H-1B visa program entirely?
Two aspects of it are completely off base: mass deportation and changing the rule for citizenship for those born in the USA.
Mass deportation - this plays well to his supporters but is completely impractical. Each person charged with deportation is allowed, by law, a hearing and an appeal. If there are 12M illegals then that means we would have to hold 24M hearings. It would take a lifetime to accomplish that.
14th Amendment - states that anyone born in the USA automatically becomes a US citizen. To change that would require a constitutional amendment. That requires 2/3 majority in both the House and the Senate and 3/4 of the States must ratify it after that. Good luck with that.
On the plus side, he is spot on about the H1-B visas. It is being abused by employers and is putting middle class Americans out of work. This notion that there are not enough STEM graduates is nonsense.
I like how he called out Rubio for supporting the bill to triple H1-B visas, backed by that sleazeball Zuckerberg. Let's see what Rubio has to say about that.
I hate that he and I actually agree on something.
Then again, I think we'd both be able to agree that air is nice for breathing.
The unstoppable clown car that is Donald Trump...
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/126589300371/clown-genius
In 2010 the Department of Justice recommended that Congress re-write H1-b law, requiring companies to seek local talent first and "to hire any equally or better qualified US workers who apply." In this letter, they stated they were concerned that "US workers...have been impermissibly replaced by H1-b visa holders and identify employers who may be engaged in a pattern or practice of discrimination against US workers."
see appendix in this GAO report
http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/314501.pdf
For 25 years, blue-collar Americans have had the first crack at jobs on U.S. soil. It's time Congress fix all white-collar visa programs to make companies seek and hire Americans first.
www.seekandhireus.com
Donna Conroy, Director
www.brightfuturejobs.com
Businesses love undocumented workers. You can pay them less and they don't unionize.
Know which other field uses a metric-ass-load of H1-B visas? Health care.
Or they would except the frickin' Microsofts, Googles and Amazons in the country keep stealing all the visas because we have a self-declared "shortage" in this country.
Know why we need H1-B visas for health care workers in this country? Because A) people in rural areas get sick, too and B) no American-born and trained Doctors want to practice in the ass-end of fly-over country. That's right kiddies, we can't get our own docs into the two-bed hospital in Pig-Snout, Wyoming so we hire people from around the globe to do that work for us.
Except that we can't because there are NEVER ENOUGH VISAS TO GO AROUND.
This is a perfect example of people taking training in professions where they are supposed to "care for others" and really just wanting the paycheck. If the AMA would just knock it off and tell its members to suck it up and go serve the greater good there would be no Obama care and no one would give one cold frick about the visas.
It's not about the money. Tech workers still make plenty of money compared to other professions. It's about work-place conditions. The 24 lachs figure that gets quoted (~$40,000) is a lot of money in India... much more than $150,000 in the US. It's about uprooting a family and forcing a deportation if the worker gets fired. This makes H1B visa an indentured servitude (even if it is well-paid). The only solution is to say that anyone who deserves an H1B visa should get a Resident Alien card instead (because it's what they are). Oh, and Resident Alien card isn't green color anymore. A person should not be afraid to go home after less than 10 hours of work lest he gets deported. If he gets fired, he should get unemployment benefits and look for a new job without begging for sponsorship. Otherwise, it's still indentured servitude. And as long as US workers are forced to compete with indentured servants on work conditions, they'll stay away from STEM career if they are smart enough to do anything else. That's why there is a shortage of local workers. It's artificially created.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
You do realize that when Buffett proposed this it would exclude him *SPECIFICALLY* and most of the other current billionaires by extension. It was designed pretty much to keep out any new possible entrants to the club by taxing them back into the lower net income brackets. Buffetts declared income is actually only about $100K or so from what I last saw reported when this story first came out. His wealth is now all in stocks and other investments that would be excluded from the tax scheme not real income.
Not so mind blowing when you realize that it is just politics and games like usual.
Always look behind the curtain.
Well then, would you prefer Bush or Clinton? Neither of them qualifies either...
If the alternative is Trump then yes I would prefer either Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. That's not an endorsement of them but rather an indication of how little regard I have for Trump.
Sadly, the type of person who is actually qualified won't run and can't win anyway.
Too often that is true. There have been some well qualified candidates but not nearly enough. The last guy who had the resume was probably George H.W. Bush (Bush 41, NOT Bush 43). Before him we'd probably have to go back to LBJ or Eisenhower. Nixon was probably adequately qualified for the job but obviously lacked a moral compass more than most presidents. Not judging how good they were, just whether they had good qualifications coming into the job. The former governors who have gotten the job recently (Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush 43) have been a mixed bag of mostly mediocrity with Bush 43 being absolute crap.
Maybe it would be better to help the US population actually be more competitive in STEM subjects? For years, the US has imported the technical talent it needs, effectively sponging off the education systems of the rest of the world.
Did you forget Clinton?
And impressive to see Trump has done his homework....assuming he didn't just pull those numbers out of his ass.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
The first hundred years of the U.S.A. is marked by territorial expansion, either bought on the cheap like the Louisiana Purchase and Alaska or by War such as Texas and the Western States Wars a.k.a. 'Indian Wars.' The skirmishes between the Northeast U.S.A. and Canada, i.e. the War of 1812, did however not go as the Yanks planned.
Trumps Immigration Plan has already failed, recent example are the Bush and Obama souther boarder war and the Reagan-Bush-Clinton War on Drugs.
To win the immigration war, move the southern boarder to Mexico's southern boarder, i.e. Annex Mexico. Afterward, apply taxation heavily and delay pay-outs (immediate pay-ins) to Social Security and Medicare for 20 years.
That solves the immigration problem with just one War.
Ha ha
In my company, all H-1B already get 150k minimum.
I have a feeling I am unwanted :(
Have you heard of executive action. Sure Congress writes the laws, but the president is in charge of enforcing or not enforcing them. Thanks to the multitude of government agencies the Pres controls, I suppose he could mandate that the EPA study how much C02 is being produced by congress, and then decide to shut down both houses because they are producing way too much C02. We all know C02 is a pollutant. It's far fetched but w/in the powers of an executive presidency. After all this president set the precedent.
There is no sense like nonsense.
All you've really done is re-create a vastly simpler version of the existing progressive tax system, one with two brackets. I'd tend to throw a third bracket in there for the ultra-rich, maybe one that kicks in after your millionth or even ten millionth dollar of pre-tax annual income, but the idea (to tax all kinds of income at the same rate and keep the system simple, while ensuring people at the bottom make enough to live on) has merit even without that.
Tie that 20K to inflation and maybe tweak the number a bit (20K is pretty much destitute for a household in many parts of the country; rent alone often costs around half of that) but I can see the appeal.
With that said, I think there's a better approach (although it still involves making capital gains, etc. be taxed at the same rate as your other income)... but that's definitely interesting.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
H1-B visas are the dominion of the State Department ... Part of the executive branch. The president could issue an executive order that changes procedure on H1-B visa grants without legislative oversight. The legislature would then have to pass a specific law to change the EO change. But it is unlikely to win any court battle due to separation of powers if the president failed to implement them. Consider legislation on H1-B visas as authority to have that category available at a certain level. The State Department is under no compulsion to actually issue that many. And could at the presidents behest implement qualification procedures beyond what congress anticipated and could virtually eliminate any H1-B visas from being issued. My favorite would be $75 per hour or $100,000 per year minimum compensation to the visa holder, as it is not a permanent visa, escrow the cost to return them home, and pay for any "leakage" for illegal over-stays maybe the same ten year support contract on fiancé visas would be appropriate, and hold the company obtaining the H1-B visa actually have a named candidate and a specific job at the time of visa application, and if granted immediately start compensation to the visa holder. Of, and if the government finds suitable domestic applicants available, a fine of $250,000 per incident. If you're going to displace American workers with H1-B visa workers you might as well add to the coffers of the displaced workers needs on social programs the government will be supplying while they aren't employees anymore.
And Bill Gates is the richest man in the world.
A little data adjustment and it will be shown that California was under water until 1930
"2016-20—: President Trump
...
How could anything good come after that? I'm pretty sure it would mean the next page was titled "A long series of failed emperors" or "The coming of the Visigoths".
Trump going after the Angry White Tech Worker. This demographic after the age of 30 votes in primaries like senior citizens. High turnout.
Only communists and their CEO lackeys want to export US jobs using H1-B visas.
Put a 50%+ surtax on the wages of H1-B workers and put it toward the unemployment fund.
Rational investment decisions are made on the basis of whether the risk/reward ratio is low enough. Higher capital gains taxes reduce the reward (the denominator in that ratio) as a first-order effect, and increase the risk as a second-order effect.
Buffett's folksy aphorisms are irrelevant (and in this case, wrong). There are sometimes good reasons to raise tax rates, but stimulating investment is never one of them.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
So? Isn't that the exact quality of a great leader, that they are able to bring people together in agreement? So the problem is pretty clear that the US just hasn't been electing good leaders. I think the Scott Adams piece above is insightful - Americans have been electing followers of the current establishment.
Slashdot summing up American politics pretty nicely in articles like this. :)
Career politicians are of no use the country... they are leeches and will kiss anyones butt, if the price is right...
Its about time, a president was elected, who is not a prostitute.
I can't stand career politicans because they have no mental capacity to solve complex problems... Trump has a proven track record in business and is the second best thing after Elon Musk for president.
Trump deserves a shot... if he succeeds we all win, if he fails, we can kick him out next round.
I'd vote for any candidate who will eliminate the wage-depressing, CEO enriching, scam: H-1B
notice it is only wealthy executives that testify before congress - like Bill Gates begging them to raise the cap even as microsoft laid off tech workers.