Help Is On the Way In the War Against Noisy Leaf Blowers

HughPickens.com writes: Perry Stein writes in the Washington Post that the fight against noisy leaf blowers is gaining momentum, in part, because residents are framing it as a public health issue. Two-stroke engine leaf blowers mix fuel with oil and don't undergo a complete combustion, emitting a number of toxins, like carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide, which their operators inevitably inhale. Municipalities throughout the country have moved to ban them. "You find two-stroke engines in poorer countries because they're cheap," says James Fallows citing a 2004 National Institutes of Health study showing that two-stroke engines on two- and three-wheeled vehicles in Delhi, India, account for a significant amount of air pollution. "You don't find them in richer countries because they're so dirty and polluting." In Washington DC leaf blowers can't exceed 70 decibels as measured from 50 feet away. (A normal conversation is typically about 60 decibels.) Haskell Small, a composer and concert pianist who is helping to lead the leaf-blower battle in Wesley Heights, describes the sound as "piercing." "When I try to compose or write a letter, there is no way for me to listen to my inner voice, and the leaf blower blanks out all the harmonic combinations."

But help is on the way. A new generation of leaf blowers is more environmentally friendly as the emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers takes us closer to the Holy Grail of equipment that is both (1) powerful and (2) quiet. Fallows supports the notion of a kind of trade-in program, where loud, old leaf blowers are exchanged for the less offensive kind. Ted Rueter, founder of Noise Free America, facilitated one such scheme. In the heat of his front lawn dispute with his neighbor, he offered a solution. "If you agree to use them, I will buy you two new leaf blowers," Rueter told his neighbor. "The offer was accepted and the noise level in his front yard was restored to a peaceful level," says Lawrence Richards. "When it comes to the balancing act of protecting landscaping jobs while reducing noise and emissions, it helps that someone was willing to pay for progress."

Comments

FWP

[hjf]

First World Problems.

Re:FWP

[Anonymous Coward]

First World Problems.

Leaf-blowers themselves are very much a product of the first world. They're a problem we created because we thought it necessary to move leaves around with air, which probably isn't the most efficient method in the first place.

In any case, the first-world created this problem, so, yes, it's naturally up to the first world to fix it.

Re:FWP

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who used to care for a large lawn next to woods, a two stroke engine powering a lawn mower sized leaf blower/vacuum is the best for blowing leaves into the woods. Turns a four man job with rakes into a one man job. Even electric leaf blowers are noisy. Do they plan on increasing the fan size?

Re:FWP

[kheldan]

The noise is annoying, yes, and the exhaust emissions are nasty, yes, those things could be addressed technologically. But those issues aren't the real problem with leaf blowers at all. In the debris on the ground, there are all sorts of things that should stay on the ground and not be stirred up by the equivalent of hurricane-force winds that come out of a leaf blower. This includes all sorts of microorganisms, mold spores, allergens, and toxins. Also they should not properly even be called 'leaf blowers', they should be referred to as 'debris blowers', because they're as often as not used to blow trash and dirt and everything but plant material around. They should be banned, they're a public health nuisance, far and away worse than they are noisome or noisy.

Re:FWP

[penguinoid]

Anyhow, it's a problem that can be mitigated by a meditation exercise. Imagine you're a leaf on the wind...

Re:FWP

[CanadianMacFan]

Of course it would have been better to just use a mulching mower and put the nutrients from the leaves into the soil instead of sending the leaves into the woods. The problem is some people think they need a perfectly green lawn with absolutely no imperfections.

Re: FWP

[Bing Tsher E]

Yes, but after removing the leaves, the lawn fanatic dumps chemicals into it to keep that poor over managed grass alive.

Our yard has a big ten foot round faerie ring of mushrooms in it. I don't fuck with it because it's neat to have a many decades old mycellium in the soil near our house

Re:FWP

[hackertourist]

Is it really too much to ask not to pollute the entire neighborhood with your noise? Especially when quieter, non-annoying alternatives are available?

It's either your freedom to annoy people, or everyone else's freedom from being disturbed.

I, for one am looking forward to quieter leaf blowers being mandated. And we're far from them being used once or twice a year. For several months every year, I have a whole brigade of them coming round once a week to clean up the municipal green areas around my house. This takes an entire day, making working at home impossible that day.

Re:FWP

[fustakrakich]

Well hell, I should just be allowed to burn my garbage (just stay upwind if you don't like it), and let my sewage flow into the street because I want to "freedom" to neglect my plumbing. I only take a shit once a day, so what's the big deal?

Re:FWP

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, do what you will. However, if you're going to make that sort of noise in my castle, the permit will cost you one ounce of silver per hour per resident, and it must be obtained no later than 14 days before you begin operating your noise-generating device.

Re:FWP

[k6mfw]

I was thinking there was a time before leaf blowers. Yes, rakes are labor intensive but yet I see all these people with leaf blowers which seems to simply move the leaves from one place to another (i.e. move the problem to someone else's spot). Then the next smuck has to deal with them. Well, that's my perception as I never deal with leaves so it is all mysterious for me. I guess if leaves were to say where they are then these nice lawns will get pretty ugly. Obviously leaf buildup along roads will cause drainage clogs resulting in floods of water on roadways. Maybe result of all this is landscaping choices that are high maintenance, that is originator of tree selection for planting around buildings and roads is not the one that has to deal with shredded leaves?

Re:FWP

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

First World Problems.

This is anti-smoking in reastaurants all over again, actually driven by people who don't like it, using arguments of health that, irrespective of value, have nothing to do with that.

Here it is noise, so conjure up some combustion health reason, and poof! Done.

Aren't we a clever and proud people?

Re:FWP

[Joe Branya]

I live in an Austin, TX condo and hear the Echo backpack leafblowers every Monday. At 10 feet I measured one at 98 db. The operators are all illegals, 18-20 year-old kids from the hills of Michoacan in Mexico. None of them are given ear protectors by the foodchain of subcontractors-of-subcontractors who are used to provide legal cover for the condo associations (including mine) who hire illegals because they are cheap, obedient and unlikely to complain. Most will be half-deaf at 30. But nobody here cares. No American would put up with the working conditions or they would call OSHA.

Don't kid yourself; illegal immigration and leafblowers are connected. This is both a first and third world problem; a first world problem for the students who would have the jobs and be earning $15/hr if the illegals were not here and a problem for the kids from Mexico who get $7.50/hr and who will go deaf. Talk about a conspiracy of silence...

The situation pisses me off for both reasons.

Re:FWP

[sunderland56]

How about you and the rest of the world doing whatever you want and leave me to be free to do what I want?

Let's ignore the noise issue; why should you be free to get rid of your leaves by blowing them onto your neighbour's lawn? Or onto the street? Would you object to me dumping my trash on your lawn, if that's what I want to do?

If cities created a by-law saying "It is illegal to move leaves, grass clippings, and other garden waste to other properties without explicit consent", that would effectively ban lawn blowers without even mentioning the noise problem.

Re:FWP

[mikael]

"Beautiful sunny surburbia,
where the squirrels play, the magpies fly,
and dawn breaks with the sound of
rotating garden machinery."

Re: FWP

[mikael]

They are definitely in Edinburgh. Both my college campus and home apartment complex had them. And I thought they were just in California.

Re:FWP

[Fnord666]

Yes, rakes are labor intensive but yet I see all these people with leaf blowers which seems to simply move the leaves from one place to another

Isn't that what a rake does too?

Re:FWP

[dryeo]

Pretty sure that is already illegal to dump your leaves on your neighbours lawn or the street where it will plug the drains.
Myself, use the blower, which is 4cycle, to blow the leaves into a pile for bagging and taking to the municipal dump where they have an industrial composting setup.
Worst for noise are the Harleys, one local ATV that sounds like it has no muffler, and last night some idiot chainsawing in the dark.

Re:FWP

[dryeo]

While mulching is the best, there are limits. Some leaves such as Horse Chestnut don't seem to mulch and the Maple leaves can be deeper then the lawnmower.
I did recently get a pamphlet mailed to me by Stihl, who sell leaf blowers but not mulching mowers, going on about the benefits of mulching.

Re:FWP

[hackertourist]

Wanting unlimited freedom for yourself, damn the consequences is immoral and ignorant of how reality works.

Re:FWP

[lhowaf]

Well, we have these big, beautiful yards with trees and grass and hills and gardens. It's quite a lot to do with a rake.

Re:FWP

[ozborn]

Using "First World Problems" to describe this problem is not really helpful. It is inappropriate in this case because it is nothing more than a means to discredit and dismiss the problem at hand without any real debate - especially when you wrote nothing more than those 3 words.

First off, I would be surprised if leaf blowers were only used in the first world - they are no doubt more common there but I am sure they can be found throughout the world.

Secondly, the main victims of leaf-blowers are the people who operated them who suffer from the fumes and from hearing loss if they don't wear the appropriate equipment. Using FWP ignores the class dimensions to this problem.

Third, climate change is a whole world problem (although poorer countries will suffer disproportionately) so using inefficient engines to do IMO stupid stuff can definitely be discussed outside the context of FWP.

Re:FWP

[Dahamma]

One or two days a year? Try 5 days a week year round. 2-stroke gas leaf blowers running almost every morning are pretty fucking annoying - both their noise and the dirty combustion fumes they emit.

That said, if people want to get rid of them, as mentioned in the article, they need to pay for it. Electric blowers are more expensive and less convenient, so if gardeners are forced to use them homeowners should expect to pay more and not complain.

As they say, your freedom ends where it infringes on someone else's. That's what noise, pollution, and safety ordinances are for.

Re:FWP

[lgw]

Aren't we a clever and proud people?

We are if there's a legitimate alternative. No smoking in reastaurants would not have been authoritarian overreach if "vaping" (someone please find a better name!) was around at the time. Banning 2-stroke leaf blowers is fine, or simply imposing a noise limit, since there are legitimate alternatives now.

Re:FWP

[sumdumass]

As they say, your freedom ends where it infringes on someone else's. That's what noise, pollution, and safety ordinances are for.

Isn't your infringement of my freedom the same? I mean if I am not free to do something because it annoys you, aren't you infringing on my freedom? Sounds like a problem in your logic as you would not have the freedom to stop me from being free.

And if they are using leaf blowers 5 days a week, they are doing something wrong. It might be your anally retentive codes and desires to keep everything looking pristine so your home values stay up causing extra work. I would suggest you deserve the problems if that is the case.

Re:FWP

[sjames]

If people are doing that, they're assholes. You're supposed to use the blower to pile the leaves up in your own yard so you can dispose of them (burn, compost, or pick up depending on local law).

Re:FWP

[sumdumass]

Put a wall up to keep the noise out like everyone else does. Why am I or anyone else not free on my property because you don't like something on yours?

I wish we were neighbors. I would have so much fun with you. I'd put bird feeders on poles right at the property line so birds would shit all over your car when it is parked in the driveway. Might even do it to encourage them to shit all over your deck in the back so you can really enjoy a cook out. I remember once when I was living in town, a neighbor got pissed because I had a party and called the cops. I put a sign up telling everyone in the neighborhood what they did. They tried to get the city to force me to take it down so I added part about voting the city council members out of office and said it was a political sign and I was within my first amendment rights. They harassed me a few times until they realized I put up a small FM transmitter and looped the recordings with a sign stating the station to listen to. The 200 foot range wasn't enough so I tied it into the power lines coming from the house and you could hear it everywhere on the block (although with a little static).

I even spruced up the power on a universial remote control and played havoc with a TV they placed within view of a window. I would turn it off on them, turn the channels. Turn the volume up all the way when they weren't home. All from my property.

All kinds of fun.

Re:FWP

[sumdumass]

You would find yourself hurt and in life threatening situations. My 115 lbs rottweiler would likely jump threw the window and attack you should you throw rocks and break it. The cameras would catch you screwing with the mail box and I would just have the feds answer that question. As for the tires, well you would have to trespass onto my property and carry a tool of some sort which I could construe as a weapon when I shoot you in self defense trying to figure out why my other dogs (a little yard shitter mut but has it's own doggy door) is going apeshit crazy around the car.

Of course that is if you disguise your face in order to avoid being detected by the cameras. Otherwise, I would just give the footage to the police and my lawyer and proceed to make your life a real living hell.

Re:FWP

[AK Marc]

The air pollution from inefficient small engines isn't just a First World problem.

Re:FWP

[Gavagai80]

Leaf blowers are more annoying for those of us in low income apartments where they come right up to our windows once a week. Just outlaw the useless things, there's no sense in moving leaves back and forth, get a leaf vacuum if you want to remove leaves.

Re:FWP

[Gavagai80]

Get yourself an MP3 of leaf blower noise, put on your headphones and crank up the volume. Have fun.

Re:FWP

[bitingduck]

Is it really too much to ask that i keep my freedom even if it somehow bothers you one or two days of the year? I mean the alternative isn't going to be as rosy as you think when your freedom annoys someone else at some point in time. Hell, just look at drones or the state of children walking to school.

You clearly don't live in Southern California. A substantial fraction of people have "gardeners" (even if they live in cheap rentals) who show up once a week and mow/blow/go, often with a couple of backpack leafblowers going at once. They can spew so much unburned gas that you smell more gas from your neighbor's yard than when pumping gas (we have emission controls on gas pumps). If you live anyplace with suburban or denser single family housing you pretty much hear them constantly from about 8 am to 3:30 pm, year round (live oak trees, among others, drop leaves year round, though acorns are seasonal and not even every year) . Many people have their gardeners twice a week-- and they blow the whole lawn even if there are so few leaves it would be faster to just walk around and pick them up by hand.

Re:FWP

[bitingduck]

Put a wall up to keep the noise out like everyone else does. Why am I or anyone else not free on my property because you don't like something on yours?

Noise ordinances are written the other way around. You can make as much noise as you want on your property as long as it doesn't exceed 50 dB or ambient+3dB (or something like that) at the property line. If you want to make noise, the wall is your responsibility.

Re:FWP

[bitingduck]

As someone who used to care for a large lawn next to woods, a two stroke engine powering a lawn mower sized leaf blower/vacuum is the best for blowing leaves into the woods. Turns a four man job with rakes into a one man job. Even electric leaf blowers are noisy. Do they plan on increasing the fan size?

I live on the edge of a national forest. There are trees and leaves and wild animals. I'm always amazed when people are trying to hold back the tide and make it look like a lawn at disneyland and get rid of the wild animals. All those things are the reasons to live here and if you can't accept them it's better to go live in Irvine or someplace else with a mediated experience.

Re:FWP

[bitingduck]

If I hadn't already commented in the thread I'd mod you up.

Re:FWP

[bitingduck]

Like my neighbour, who takes a good 20 minutes to clear leaves off an area he could sweep in 5 at max (I know this because I have a larger area of paving that's how long it takes me to edge it, sweep it and rip the weeds out of the gaps in the concrete).

I see the same thing with clearing the roof. My neighbors have theirs blown twice a week for something like 20 minutes each time. I can do mine (same size) with a broom in about 10, and I do it a whole lot less often because I do it myself. It's not necessary to do it all that often-- once every couple weeks in fire season and in the winter if there's rain in the forecast.

Re:FWP

[pixelpusher220]

losing your touch dumass. Your freedom ends at the property line, period. You might do such things, but we'd never be neighbors...because unlike you I *like* having an HOA to stop assholes such as yourself.

Watching the courts eat you alive would be fun.

Re:FWP

[pixelpusher220]

responsibility for sumdumass likely means Mom tellhing him to clean his room...

Re: FWP

[lecoupdejarnac]

Here in Northern California too. They are used on the tiniest if lawns and even on urban sidewalks, when there is so little dirt and debris it would be far more effective to use a push broom. And a lot of time I just see the 'gardeners' blowing dust and dirt into the street, which of course will blow back eventually. Job security I guess.

Re:FWP

[Anonymous Coward]

I live near a Google office and the real problem I have with leaf blowers is that they don't use them during the day when they can impact employees, but they use them starting around 2 am until 5 am. Because it's a business, they are not impacted by noise restrictions for residential usage, even though I live practically across the street. It's also not just a day or two, but it's Monday though Friday mornings during the entire fall, so it's spotless for the employees. Alas, this impacts my sleep and I'll be moving away ASAP.

Re:FWP

[skam240]

No, they're called "first world problems" because only affluent people with no real problems to complain about complain about nonsense like a bit of noise every once in a while that disturbs their perfect serenity.

After this we can work on a ban on scratchy sweaters. They're the WORST! How about children? They're noisy as all hell. Lets ban'em.

Re:FWP

[skam240]

There's a sinister connection between leaf blowers and illegal immigration? So If there were no leaf blowers there'd be no illegal immigration? Or would it be if there was no illegal immigration there'd be no leaf blowers? Both seem pretty preposterous to me.

The people who do the yard work in the condo complex where I live (California) all have ear protectors. They're mostly Hispanic but if they're illegals they arent recent arrivals as all of them that I've talked to speak pretty good English. Now both of our stories are anecdotal but I see plenty of grounds keepers wearing proper ear protection while operating leaf blowers where I live.

Specifically in regards to your issues, have you tried becoming an active member in your condo association? As one of the board members for mine I've generally found there to be a shortage of people willing to be involved. Even if you're a renter in the complex you can often have some sort of role. If you havent then stop complaining in internet forums about conspiracy theories and get involved with your condo association to get your grounds keepers proper ear protection.

Re:FWP

[Dahamma]

Isn't your infringement of my freedom the same? I mean if I am not free to do something because it annoys you, aren't you infringing on my freedom?

No, it's absolutely not, that's so obviously a false equivalence you can't be seriously suggesting it. It's like the argument that "calling me bigoted makes you bigoted for being against bigots". You are welcome to do anything that only affects you. You are often not welcome to do something that affects other people negatively (of course you may be legally allowed to do it until it's made illegal).

Shoot yourself, I couldn't care less (IMO making suicide illegal is idiotic). Shoot someone else, not so much. OD on drugs, fine, sell them to a kid who ODs, you'll go to jail. Same with smoking in a restaurant vs just fucking going outside.

CA already has "spare the air" days where you can't burn wood fireplaces, etc because the air quality is so bad. I see no difference between that and using a leaf blower that emits literally visible clouds of pollutants into the air. That said, if you'd like to close your flue and light your fireplace, or run your leaf blower inside your closed garage, you are welcome to do that. If that doesn't sound safe to you, why the hell would any of your neighbors want to breathe it, either?

And if they are using leaf blowers 5 days a week, they are doing something wrong.

Eh - you do realize it's possible to have more than one neighbor, right? I have 5 bordering my house and another 3-4 across the street who all use different gardening services on different days.

Honestly if it were 30 minutes a week (especially when I'm not home) it's still annoying, but tolerable/ But when it's every morning, for 1-2 hours, it's not. That's why we have regulations like this (hell, that's why we have civilization with police forces), some people are just selfish and won't considerate to others unless forced to.

Re:FWP

[rpstrong]

That said, if people want to get rid of them, as mentioned in the article, they need to pay for it. Electric blowers are more expensive and less convenient, so if gardeners are forced to use them homeowners should expect to pay more and not complain.

Have you owned (or priced) leaf blowers? At the consumer end, you can expect to spend around 50% more (over $100) for a hand held gas model than you would for an equivalent electric model (~$60), and the electric one will probably last longer. Convenience is another issue; I'm fortunate enouigh to have a house where an extension cord plugged into a single outlet not only allows me full access to everywhere that I clear leaves, but powers my electric snow shovel in the winter as well.

I used to maintain vacation rental properties, and used a small gas model because AC power wasn't always convenient - they lasted about a year. No complaints, as we were using consumer grade goods in a commercial environment. I've been using my $60 electric now for five years ()home use, about weekly), and it is still going strong - although it is developing some bearing noise.

And BTW, the blower is far more efficient than a rake. It picks up dirt and twigs from hard surfaces that would otherwise require a broom, and cleans out flower beds and nooks and crannies that would be inaccessible to a rake. And no, I don't blow the leaves onto my neighbors' lawns or into the street - why would I? I certainly wouldn't do so with a rake. (And considering that the range of the leaves - and dirt! - being blown is typically measured in feet or yards, please don't suggest that their landing spot is beyond my control.)

Re:FWP

[Dahamma]

Yes, I have, and I own an electric. But I will admit it's a toy compared to commercial gas blowers.

To be honest, as much as I hate them, I 100% agree that gas blowers are much simpler and faster to operate for professionals. Battery powered ones just don't have nearly as much power; plug-ins can approach the power of the lowest-end backpack gas blowers, but are impractical when they are using it all around a large home, through gates, in the front yard/street, etc (assuming the location even has accessible outdoor plugs). And electric blowers that match the durability of a commercial backpack gas blower just don't exist. These guys aren't weekend warriors, they work at this 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. Efficiency and reliability is everything.

Sounds almost like I am pro-gas blowers - I am definitely not, I can't stand them. I am pro-paying gardeners more so they can afford commercial electric blowers with extra batteries, higher turnover from their inferior durability, etc. But it doesn't do me much good to pay mine more unless they actually use that money for that purpose, AND all of my neighbors and/or their gardening services do the same...

Re:FWP

[rail2rail]

Then you are free to produce as much noise as you like within the confines of your home. Projecting that noise into my home is pollution. Silence cannot be projected. It is the default value. Is this really so hard to understand? Instead of noise, imagine it is billowing clouds of smoke. Say I was burning leaves in my yard, and that smoke enters your home. Good, now you see the problem with preventable noise.

Re:FWP

[skam240]

What's your point? I never said grounds keepers werent overwhelmingly Latino.

Re:FWP

[sumdumass]

I feel your pain there. It is insane that they use them in the middle of the night. I figured existing noise ordinances would disallow that and most people were bitching because they had to turn the TV up a bit to watch "the price is right" or some other program in the middle of the day.

I live in the country and do have to put up with combines and tractors in the middle of the night certain times of the year. But that is a short window and a noise machine can usually drown them out enough not to bother my sleep. I do sleep weird hours because of work though. Bedtime for me is usually around 7-8pm and I'm out the door by 2am on a work day so I do have to sleep while normal life for most people is happening. During these times, I hardly ever get bothered by neighbors but they are quite a distance away and usually invite me if they are having a party or something so I know before hand to whip the noise machine out.

Re:FWP

[mjwx]

Is it really too much to ask not to pollute the entire neighborhood with your noise? Especially when quieter, non-annoying alternatives are available?

Motor powered leaf blowers have advantages that electric ones don't, specifically the ability to operate for longer periods and away from power points, Especially if you're maintaining a large property that has a lot of greenery (I.E. an apartment block, commercial park or municipal building).

In Australia we have a simple solution. We classify all of these things as power tools and in residential areas we have a ban on power tool usage before and after a certain time (which time depends on the council who issued the ban). We accept that you can own loud tools, but you accept that using them at 10PM at night is not socially acceptable.

Re:FWP

[rpstrong]

Yes, I have, and I own an electric. But I will admit it's a toy compared to commercial gas blowers.

I could never convince the boss to shell out for a commercial, backpack design. OTOH, my job was to touch up after someone else did the bulk of the work - and the hand held units were damned convenient.

To be honest, as much as I hate them, I 100% agree that gas blowers are much simpler and faster to operate for professionals. Battery powered ones just don't have nearly as much power; plug-ins can approach the power of the lowest-end backpack gas blowers,

I wouldn't consider a battery powered unit for anything but the smallest jobs - but that is a knee-jerk response, because I've never used one. (And I'm very happy with my Craftsman C-3 tools, especially with the lithium-ion batteries).

but are impractical when they are using it all around a large home, through gates, in the front yard/street, etc (assuming the location even has accessible outdoor plugs).

This!

And electric blowers that match the durability of a commercial backpack gas blower just don't exist. These guys aren't weekend warriors, they work at this 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. Efficiency and reliability is everything.

Interesting point. I didn't go electric till after I stopped using them on the job.

Sounds almost like I am pro-gas blowers - I am definitely not, I can't stand them. I am pro-paying gardeners more so they can afford commercial electric blowers with extra batteries, higher turnover from their inferior durability, etc. But it doesn't do me much good to pay mine more unless they actually use that money for that purpose, AND all of my neighbors and/or their gardening services do the same...

I was gong to say that what is really needed is quieter engine, but I suspect that rechargeable technology is the way to go. No reason that they can't be made as durable as backpack models (for a commercial price), and consider the idea of a handheld motor, plugged into a backpack mounted battery pack.

Look for me on Kickstarter . . .

Re:FWP

[david_thornley]

Also, it looks to me like, in general usage, "first world problems" are things that only bother people because they have high expectations, like the amount of money I'm paying for my 40Mb connection. This is a case of possibly first-world stuff causing problems for other people. There's a big difference there.

Re:FWP

[Dahamma]

I was gong to say that what is really needed is quieter engine, but I suspect that rechargeable technology is the way to go. No reason that they can't be made as durable as backpack models (for a commercial price), and consider the idea of a handheld motor, plugged into a backpack mounted battery pack.

Look for me on Kickstarter . . .

You'd think if Tesla can make an electric car with 400+ HP motor, someone could do it with a leaf blower (question of strapping a large lithium batter to your back notwithstanding). And given all of these upcoming ordinances, if someone *can* make a high quality electric blower with similar HP to a gas blower, they could have the next Dyson (actually - maybe someone should suggest it to Dyson...)

Re:FWP

[thoughtlover]

The noise is annoying, yes...

I now have a mental image of the coming Amazon drone-delivery system... a bunch of noisy leaf blowers all buzzing around the sky... great.

Another inane Hugh Pickens submission.

[Anonymous Coward]

What a fucking inane submission. Why the fuck is this on Slashdot?!

Leave the goddamn leaves on the ground. Or if you really must collect them, just use a fucking rake.

Holy shit, this submission makes me pine for the days of Roland Piquepaille. At least his submissions had some relevance, no matter how small.

Re:Another inane Hugh Pickens submission.

[nukenerd]

Leave the goddamn leaves on the ground. Or if you really must collect them, just use a fucking rake.

A rake is no good on a gravel drive as it pulls the gravel as well, and mixes it with the leaves. If you leave the leaves on the drive (or anywhere, like the previous occupants of my house seem to have done for the last 20 years), they just turn into mud. Half my driveway is a mud-bath of rotted leaves with gravel somewhere below, which I must sort out one day.

What's wong with a rake

[Anonymous Coward]

I already have an environmentally friendly, much much quieter leaf mover called a rake. And best of all it is cheap to own and maintain.

Re:What's wong with a rake

[AthanasiusKircher]

I already have an environmentally friendly, much much quieter leaf mover called a rake. And best of all it is cheap to own and maintain.

Exactly.

And if you have a lot of leaves, buy a cheap heavy tarp. Rake leaves onto tarp. Drag tarp to desired location to deposit leaves. Done.

Not only that, but it's exercise. I'm always amazed at the people who show up at the gym or go running around the neighborhood, but they don't take advantage of natural opportunities for exercise. Instead of buying the leaf blower, buy the rake. Instead of the riding mower or the "self-propelled" push mower, buy a decent reel mower (they are a lot better than they used to be) and run around the yard with it. Instead of buying the power edger, get the manual one and dig. Rather than the rototiller for your garden, dig it up and turn the soil with a shovel. A lot of times you get a decent workout while actually accomplishing something, and you frequently end up using different sets of muscles for different yard tasks, rather than having to come up with an artificial "routine" to try to keep your whole body fit.

And if you say, "But, but... my yard is too big for this sort of thing -- it would take me way too long to maintain it manually." Well, then have a smaller yard. Even if you have a large piece of property, install perennial flower beds, install ground covers that don't require cutting every week (and often excessive fertilizer and irrigation), plant some trees. If you're rich enough to own a large piece of property and pay people to keep it like a golf course, pay a landscape designer to make it lower maintenance and with greater variety than a giant lawn or whatever.

That's actually the real problem behind all the leaf blower noise -- Americans in the suburbs often have giant pieces of property with unnecessary huge lawns and unreasonable expectations that they be kept up continuously as if they were part of a golf course. Maybe we should attack the underlying problem -- like avoiding giant unneeded lawns or getting rid of this notion that any leaves on the ground are bad or "untidy" (they can actually be good fertilizer if they aren't excessive).

Re:What's wong with a rake

[Shoten]

I already have an environmentally friendly, much much quieter leaf mover called a rake. And best of all it is cheap to own and maintain.

Exactly.

And if you have a lot of leaves, buy a cheap heavy tarp. Rake leaves onto tarp. Drag tarp to desired location to deposit leaves. Done.

Not only that, but it's exercise. I'm always amazed at the people who show up at the gym or go running around the neighborhood, but they don't take advantage of natural opportunities for exercise. Instead of buying the leaf blower, buy the rake. Instead of the riding mower or the "self-propelled" push mower, buy a decent reel mower (they are a lot better than they used to be) and run around the yard with it. Instead of buying the power edger, get the manual one and dig. Rather than the rototiller for your garden, dig it up and turn the soil with a shovel. A lot of times you get a decent workout while actually accomplishing something, and you frequently end up using different sets of muscles for different yard tasks, rather than having to come up with an artificial "routine" to try to keep your whole body fit.

And if you say, "But, but... my yard is too big for this sort of thing -- it would take me way too long to maintain it manually." Well, then have a smaller yard. Even if you have a large piece of property, install perennial flower beds, install ground covers that don't require cutting every week (and often excessive fertilizer and irrigation), plant some trees. If you're rich enough to own a large piece of property and pay people to keep it like a golf course, pay a landscape designer to make it lower maintenance and with greater variety than a giant lawn or whatever.

That's actually the real problem behind all the leaf blower noise -- Americans in the suburbs often have giant pieces of property with unnecessary huge lawns and unreasonable expectations that they be kept up continuously as if they were part of a golf course. Maybe we should attack the underlying problem -- like avoiding giant unneeded lawns or getting rid of this notion that any leaves on the ground are bad or "untidy" (they can actually be good fertilizer if they aren't excessive).

Okay, you had me with the first two paragraphs...absolutely, for the overwhelming majority of homes, the "rake and tarp" method is the way to go. One way to assess how much your possessions own you (as opposed to the opposite) is to "count the cylinders". Count how many internal combustion cylinders you have...the higher the number, the more likely it is that you are those cylinders' prison bitch. And, as you say in the second paragraph, it's exercise, which everyone needs...boy do we ever.

But when you say, "Well, then have a smaller yard," uh...yeah, no. It doesn't work like that. You are confusing leaves...which do not come from the ground...with a lawn. Leaves (which fall from trees...FYI on that one) still land on flower beds; the flowers do not have magical force fields to disintegrate the leaves. And you can't rake flowers...which leaves you with only one option. Using a leaf blower!

It sounds like maybe you should get out in the yard yourself and try some of this stuff out, so that you see how it actually works...or perhaps you live in a >1-floor home with no yard to care for, in which case you shouldn't be putting forth your uninformed opinion on these things in the first place?

Re:What's wong with a rake

[AthanasiusKircher]

But when you say, "Well, then have a smaller yard," uh...yeah, no. It doesn't work like that. You are confusing leaves...which do not come from the ground...with a lawn.

No, I'm not confusing anything. I'm pointing out that good planning and yard design can make maintenance less. The vast majority of people I see out with leaf blowers are cleaning off large lawns primarily. Yes, there are flower beds and other things, but I see LOTS of people clearly wide swaths of grass.

Leaves (which fall from trees...FYI on that one) still land on flower beds; the flowers do not have magical force fields to disintegrate the leaves. And you can't rake flowers...which leaves you with only one option. Using a leaf blower!

Hmm... despite being a jerk, I'll give you a tip here. People actually lived before leaf blowers existed. They actually sometimes had flower beds too. Think about that for one second. Somehow they survived.

If you have beds filled with tall-growing perennials, ground covers that are more than a few inches, etc., leaves probably aren't even that noticeable a problem -- and even if they are under big trees, these sorts of plants are hardy and can often stand up to some rough treatment like raking around them.

If you're planting crappy pretty short-growing annuals everywhere, then yeah, leaves could fall on them. Here's a tip -- don't plant them under trees that are known to shed their leaves during blooming season for those flowers. Choose other things for those beds -- hardier ground covers or even taller shrubs or something.

It sounds like maybe you should get out in the yard yourself and try some of this stuff out, so that you see how it actually works...or perhaps you live in a >1-floor home with no yard to care for, in which case you shouldn't be putting forth your uninformed opinion on these things in the first place?

Ad hominem. Nice. The refuge of jerks and ignorati. Look -- most of the issues you mention with flowers can be solved by what I've already said: put beds in reasonable places where they won't accumulate excessive leaves during blooming, and where you do expect lots of leaves, plant taller stuff (where you won't notice the leaves or they won't be a problem interfering with the plants' growth) or hardier stuff that can stand up to occasional raking. Doing otherwise is poor design, which is why I recommended consulting a landscaping expert if you don't know what you're doing and want to lower maintenance.

The rest of the problem would generally be solved if people just didn't get as worried about keeping a yard "perfect" all the time. If leaves are lying around in your flower beds, who cares? It's often reasonable fertilizer, and usually that tends to happen in the fall with most trees, when most flowers aren't even blooming, so it hardly hurt the aesthetics of the flowers. And, as I said, if you planted your flowers in a place where they bloom at the same time the leaves fall from a tree above them, well, that's just dumb.

Re:What's wong with a rake

[mjm1231]

... the flowers do not have magical force fields to disintegrate the leaves. And you can't rake flowers...which leaves you with only one option. Using a leaf blower!

It's a good thing flowers were invented after the leaf blower, or our ancestors would have been so screwed.

Re:What's wong with a rake

[David_Hart]

... the flowers do not have magical force fields to disintegrate the leaves. And you can't rake flowers...which leaves you with only one option. Using a leaf blower!

It's a good thing flowers were invented after the leaf blower, or our ancestors would have been so screwed.

Those who question whether leaf blowers should exist in the first place should take a step back as the argument could apply to any modern convenience device. It's like saying that we don't need a dishwasher or clothes washer/dryer because our ancestors got along just fine without one and there are alternatives that use less energy, cause less pollution, and require more manual input / exercise (i.e. washing clothes by hand, air drying clothes, etc.).

Just like any technology, leaf blowers can be abused by those who don't know how to use it. If your neighbor is blowing the leaves into the street or into the yard next door, then they are being jerks. Most people us leaf blowers responsibly to create a pile, similar to raking, to make them easier to mulch, bag, etc. and for use where a lawn mower can't go.

I do agree, however, that the gas powered versions should be phased out for battery operated models. This will happen over time. I don't think that we need any new laws to address it. As it is, we are stating to see battery powered lawn mowers hit the mainstream. So leaf blowers won't be far behind.

Re:What's wong with a rake

[ewhenn]

Show me a backpack style electric leaf blower that puts out a constant 750+ CFM, can run for 3 hours straight, weighs less than 20 pounds, and costs less than $500.

Hell, show me an electric blower that meets my requirements at *any* price.

Yeah... crickets...

My neighbor picked up one of these )http://egopowerplus.com/products/480-cfm-blower#tab1) new this summer and it was basically a worthless piece of shit, and it's about as powerful as electric blowers get. He was outside for over an hour and had less than half of his lawn cleaned up. I tossed on my echo 770 and cleared my whole yard on 20ish minutes, we both had roughly the same amount of debris. Then I walked over and asked him if he wanted a hand, cleared out the remainder of his yard in short order too. He returned the electric piece of crap and a couple weeks later bought a good backpack blower (Stihl 600).

Re:What's wong with a rake

[bitingduck]

Before leaf blowers there were no city ordinances to take care of the leaves, because there were no storm sewers either. Storm sewers become clogged and streets flood with the slightest rainfall if leaves are not tended to.

The smaller storm sewers in my area are 5' diameter tubes you can walk through. The large ones are 10+ feet wide and deep trenches. The really big ones (far downstream from me) are used to film car chases for TV (all those chases in the 70's cop shows). No amount of leaves will clog them or their inlets (which are also huge - during a heavy rainfall there's pretty good stream in the center channel on the end of my street. I used to jump it until I realized that I could easily end up a few miles downstream in a debris basin. The debris basins can handle hundreds of tons of trees and rocks coming in from the mountains.

Re:What's wong with a rake

[bitingduck]

That's actually the real problem behind all the leaf blower noise -- Americans in the suburbs often have giant pieces of property with unnecessary huge lawns and unreasonable expectations that they be kept up continuously as if they were part of a golf course. Maybe we should attack the underlying problem -- like avoiding giant unneeded lawns or getting rid of this notion that any leaves on the ground are bad or "untidy" (they can actually be good fertilizer if they aren't excessive).

It's not just huge lawns. In SoCal even the postage stamp of a lawn gets blown using a backpack blower at least once a week by the "gardeners". Leaf blowers became popular during one of the droughts (the 70s?) because of prohibitions on hosing off your sidewalk. People don't even use them for leaves much of the time, in a lot of cases it's just to get the dust off the hardscape and much of it ends up stuck to the side of the house (or in your lungs).

Re:What's wong with a rake

[bitingduck]

And you can't rake flowers...which leaves you with only one option. Using a leaf blower!

It sounds like maybe you should get out in the yard yourself and try some of this stuff out, so that you see how it actually works...or perhaps you live in a >1-floor home with no yard to care for, in which case you shouldn't be putting forth your uninformed opinion on these things in the first place?

I have a good sized yard with all sorts of things planted and have never had a need for a leaf blower. If you have actual delicate flowers, the blower is going to damage them, and unless you're an industrial gardner supplying florists, you could probably just reach in and pull leaves out with your hands. Or leave them as mulch-- much of my raking amounts to collecting the leaves from under the oak trees to use as mulch around the fruit trees.

Say What?!

[Dereck1701]

"You find two-stroke engines in poorer countries because they're cheap,"

No, you find two-stroke engines in applications where you need high power but extremely low weight. Their cheapness is simply a byproduct of their simplicity (hence, weight savings). There are plenty of applications where a 4-stroke engine simply wouldn't work because it would weigh too much (leaf blowers, chain saws, etc) or would be too bulky (mopeds, model airplanes, lawnmowers, etc). Sure their efficiency needs some work, or replacement if a viable alternative is created, but at the moment there are several applications where 4-stroke engines or battery power simply wouldn't work.

Re:Say What?!

[DarkOx]

here are plenty of applications where a 4-stroke engine simply wouldn't work because it would weigh too much (leaf blowers, chain saws, etc) or would be too bulky

Except you can go to your local Lowes or Home Depot and buy these things with 4 stroke engines right now. In general I agree though their two stroke counter parts are vastly superior. The are as powerful and weigh less or are more powerful; either way therefore more useful for their purpose. Its also the case the 2 stroke engines general tolerate being inverted and such because they only have to worry about keep a charge of aspirated fuel, not also pulling oil from a sump; and dry sump applications for 4 strokes are even more complex and expensive.

Personally the only way I will ever replace my 2 stroke trimmer plus and my chain saw with a 4 stroke is if I can't get a replacement 2 stroke model.

Re:Say What?!

[QuietLagoon]

...applications where a 4-stroke engine simply wouldn't work because it would weigh too much (leaf blowers,...

I've seen 4-stroke engines on leaf blowers, albeit, backpack leaf blowers.

Re:Say What?!

[oic0]

They arent inherently loud. In fact, their power greatly improves with what would be a very restrictive exhaust on a four stroke. Cheap leaf blowers are just loud because they are cheap and have tiny crappy mufflers. Two strokes also don't have to be inefficient. In larger applications they can generally have a lot more power density than a four stroke and very similar emissions / fuel economy if used with direct injection. Their main problem is that they blow intake charge out with the exhaust when not at the optimal resonance frequency with their exhaust expansion chamber. If you dont add the fuel until the port is closed, its not a problem.

Re:Say What?!

[resfilter]

"You find two-stroke engines in poorer countries because they're cheap,"

No, you find two-stroke engines in applications where you need high power but extremely low weight. Their cheapness is simply a byproduct of their simplicity (hence, weight savings). There are plenty of applications where a 4-stroke engine simply wouldn't work because it would weigh too much (leaf blowers, chain saws, etc) or would be too bulky (mopeds, model airplanes, lawnmowers, etc). Sure their efficiency needs some work, or replacement if a viable alternative is created, but at the moment there are several applications where 4-stroke engines or battery power simply wouldn't work.

the power-to-weight ratio gap is very small these days in the 1hp+ market. engines like the honda GX25 have something like 7lbs making 1hp, perfect for a handheld blower. honda even bolts a perfectly good leaf blower to it, but they only sell it in the european market for some reason, i have no idea why they don't bring it into north america: http://www.honda.co.uk/lawn-an...

Re: Say What?!

[TheReaperD]

If you want to go full on libertarian dystopia, then fine. You can use whatever noisy, polluting piece of garbage you want because your too lazy to use a rake... and I can shoot you for it. Problem solved. Yes, the battery versions are not perfect but, if your too damn lazy to use a rake, than it is the solution you will have to deal with. The reason that laws like this have to be created is because people are too self-centered and lazy to do what is best for everyone; they only care about themselves, without a single thought as to how it effects their neighbours.

Re:Say What?!

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the point: people enjoy making noise. What's the point of buying a higher powered piece of equipment if you can't announce how powerful you have become to the entire neighborhood? In fact some motorcycles now come with attached forward-facing two-stroke leafblowers to eliminate the hole in the front of their noise envelope.

Re:Say What?!

[thegarbz]

I would extend your arguement on the environmental side:

National Institutes of Health study showing that two-stroke engines on two- and three-wheeled vehicles in Delhi, India, account for a significant amount of air pollution.

In other news the solar energy as measured at the sun would instantly kill us so solar is unsafe. Oh what there's a difference in concentration? Well blow me down with a battery powered leaf blower! I didn't realise that a handful of people using a leaf blower for 5 minutes on their law once a week as the same thing as filling up a highway with motorcycles.

But hey as long as we have that environmental angle. I'm sure 10minutes less running a 2 stroke per week will solve all of our problems.

Re:Say What?!

[valnar]

I agree! I didn't bother reading the article because I assume it was written by a moron.

I live near woods and have to blow leaves into the woods several times during the season, or my yard would be covered by oak leaves 5 times over. My hand leaf blower gets used 20% of the time. The other 80% is with a Little Wonder push blower. It's loud as fuck, but the only thing that'll get the job done. There is no way with modern technology to make that thing quiet that I'm aware of.

Re:Say What?!

[PPH]

Forget two stroke. I want one of these

Re:Say What?!

[rochrist]

You should probably go back on your meds.

Re:Say What?!

[dryeo]

My leaf blower is a 4 stroke, same with my weedeater and lawnmower. Quieter then the 2 strokes and just as powerful or close enough. Just have to adjust the valves every hundred hours.

Re:Say What?!

[JoeRandomHacker]

The folks at LiquidPiston seem to think they have a rotary engine that could do the trick. Maybe, or maybe not, but I'm excited to see that there are still folks willing to innovate in engine technology.

http://liquidpiston.com/techno...

Re:Say What?!

[PPH]

At first glance, this looks like a novelty. But after reading some of the comments, if you could put some sort of sound attenuation on the turbine exhaust there are some commercial grounds maintenance people that might be willing to pay for such a powerful/lightweight unit.

Off to the patent office!

Re:Say What?!

[nukenerd]

you find two-stroke engines in applications where you need high power but extremely low weight. Their cheapness is simply a byproduct of their simplicity (hence, weight savings). There are plenty of applications where a 4-stroke engine simply wouldn't work because it would weigh too much... or would be too bulky

You forgot the main reason that 2-strokes are used in hand-held kit, especially chainsaws : being sump-less they work at any angle and tolerate being tossed around, because the lubricating oil comes in with the fuel. This can be done with 4-strokes with fancy sump design having swivelling pick-up nozzles (like in acrobatic aircraft), but it is expensive and less reliable.

Re:Say What?!

[nukenerd]

So what does this Mike do exactly with his weed trimmer in his acre that is "nearly through" in 45 minutes? As it happens my garden is also an acre and there is no damn way I would get through trimming the weeds in it in 45 minutes. I have a arsenal of professional grade (mid-range Stihl) 2-stroke kit and could spend my entire spare time on it (but don't).

Don't worry though, I have only one neighbour (a farmer) within half a mile, and he's deaf (but not from me).

Re:Say What?!

[nukenerd]

What about a rake?

My "yard" is gravel. A rake would pull up the gravel with the leaves.

Re: Say What?!

[WindBourne]

Actually, that gp is doing just that. They want the right to inflict noise and air pollution on others.

Re:Say What?!

[AK Marc]

4-stroke doesn't help because the small engine applications (generally) don't have much, if anything, in the way of emissions control.

emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[QuietLagoon]

...the emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers takes us closer to the Holy Grail of equipment that is both (1) powerful and (2) quiet....

and (3) runs for only 10 minutes before the battery drains down.

.
True, the weaker battery-operated leaf blowers can have battery run time that is beyond 10 minutes. However, if you're looking for a battery-operated leaf blower that as powerful as one with a two-cycle engine, then you're looking at leaf blowers with a useful battery life of around 10 to 15 minutes.

Note: when the manufacturers rate the battery run time of leaf blowers in their advertisements and on their websites, they usually rate the battery life with the leaf blower running on its lowest speed. That's how they can say the battery lasts for an hour or more.

If you're just looking to blow the leaves off your patio or sidewalks, then the battery operated ones are fine. But don't expect to clean any reasonable sized yard of leaves..

Re:emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[thegarbz]

Clean a yard with a leafblower? Is that a thing? I've only ever seen people rake their yards.

We leafblow footpaths and areas we can't rake but the leaves just get caught in the grass in the yard.

Re:emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[QuietLagoon]

Clean a yard with a leafblower? Is that a thing?

Yes, it is a thing.

.
Much, much faster than raking, and it does a better job than raking. Depending upon the size of the yard, a handheld can work, or you may need to step up to a backpack leaf blower, next step up is a walk-behind leaf blower. The latter provides some serious air movement, and should not be used by the timid.

Re:emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[QuietLagoon]

I don't expect a blower to clear my yard. I use the lawnmower and mulch them.

Mulching the leaves with a lawn mower works to a point. However, when the leaves get too deep, a leaf blower (or serious raking) is the only way to get them under control.

Re:emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[QuietLagoon]

Here's a site about leaf blowers. http://www.leafblowersdirect.c...

Re:emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[Dr. Evil]

The condo next door spends 6 hours pissing around with leafblowers, always on separate days, multiple times in the autumn. It makes it impossible to keep any windows or doors open.

It wouldn't be as bad if they took 4 of them for 30 minutes and systematically went over the grounds... but no. One fat guy walks all over the place in no particular pattern, just pointing the leafblower at dandelions and the odd leaf that just won't come free of the fence. I'm sure if they were raking, they wouldn't be at it for 6 hours. I guess it makes him feel like he's working.

The noise is one problem. They also kick up dust throughout the neighbourhood.

I'm all for banning them.

Re:emergence of battery-powered leaf blowers

[bitingduck]

But some use these blowers for an actual full days use of work, not an occasional use for a driveway. Battery powered units are not mobile enough for a landscaper to use.

And the two-stroke blowers can't 'blow the paint off a car', unless there is other major damage to it already.

If they're being used on hardscape it's not the air that will blow the paint off, but the high speed abrasive dust. Around here the dust has a lot of decomposed granite in it, which will do a nice job on your paint at high speed.

General trend as battery technology gets better

[JoshuaZ]

This is part of the same general trend as battery technology gets better: we don't need fossil fuels for nearly as many things as we did previously. To some extent this one is a bit of a no-brainer, because leafblowers are not technologies where one has to worry terribly about being stranded if there's no nearby recharge station or if the range isn't far enough (which helped hold back electric cars). It will be interesting to see how far this goes. Some optimists (such a Elon Musk) think that we'll eventually have boats and airplanes which use batteries, thus relegating fossil fuel use to essentially some rockets which require the very high energy density, plastic and other petrochemical derivative production (which will take a lot longer to find alternatives for), and energy in the grid. Note by the way that because large generators like power plants are more efficient than small ones, as long as one has decent batteries and doesn't have terrible power plants on the grid, that's still a net gain.

However, I'm pessimistic about this sort of trend for a few reasons. First, many countries are still producing coal power plants, and although a natural gas or oil plant is often cleaner than a car or other device burning gasoline, this is often not the case for coal plants. In some developed countries, like the US, the total percentage of power produced by coal is going down but the total amount of coal production is roughly constant and projected to remain so for at least a few decades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States. While newer coal plants are more efficient and cleaner, this is only by a comparatively small degree. Of course, if do eventually get cheaper nuclear (such as with more modern reactors or maybe even with thorium reactors) this situation may change- right now the fact that nuclear is held to much higher safety standards than fossil fuel plants is a large part of its very high cost.

More seriously for the very long-term hope of making batteries handle all transport technologies including ships and airplanes, it isn't clear that battery technology will improve that much over time. The primary thing that matters is energy density, which has two forms, energy per mass and energy per volume. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density Both need to be much better than they are today for electric airplanes to have any chance (lifespan and and number of cycle uses also need to improve but that's in some ways less of a barrier.) Energy density of batteries by both metrics batteries has increased by 5%-10% a year depending on the exact metric and choice of examples https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-battery-energy-density-improves-5-8-per-year which is exponential growth ( but with a much slower doubling time than something like Moore's Law. One has a doubling about once every 8 or 10 years.) Jet fuel has an energy density of around 45 MJ/kg, The most efficient batteries have a little under 1 MJ/kg. So one needs at least about 5 doublings before batteries can reasonably compete which will start to occur if they have an energy density of around 32/ MJ/kg. Similar remarks apply to energy density measured by joules per volume. However, there are technical reasons to think that batteries will stop doubling before that (see theabove quora link for details which argues that we can't make batteries much than four times as efficient before we start running into serious theoretical limits). At around 20 MJ/kg, one maybe could run planes practically but they would be much less convenient and practical than today's jets and that would be at the very upper end of the plausible limits. So it is likely that we will still see fossil fuels used for jets for the next 40 or 50 years.

spring time?

[Anonymous Coward]

When spring rolls around will he be handing out electric weed eaters to replace our loud 2 stroke weed eaters?

Whaha

[codeButcher]

You find two-stroke engines in poorer countries because they're cheap

I have a Stihl trimmer. Bought because it is decent German build quality (albeit Made in Brazil), thus being much more expensive (but also needs much less adjustment, repair and eventually replacement) compared to the Chinese models available where I'm at. (As an aside: The dealer that sold it to me had ads up on lampposts the other day: "Buy once" - with various products of this company displayed. Although he also carries other brands.) It also has a very noisy (wearing ear muffs together with eye protection) 2-stroke that emits some nasty-smelling stuff and gets hot enough that you have to be careful not to get it too close to your arm under which it is used.

That said, I for one can hardly understand the first world's fascination with leaf blowers. I do have a fairly large property (around .36 Ha or 1 acre) with quite a few deciduous trees. Leaves do need to get picked up, else they form a dense lawn-chocking mat. But this gets done in any case when the lawn mower runs over them and picks them up together with the lawn clippings. This nice mixture then goes to the compost pile, where it automatically gets turned into wonderful growing medium for my vegetable garden - thus saving me a run to the municipal dumping site for garden refuse and later on another run to buy fertilizer, and eventually lowers my need to go grocery shopping. So I get extremely fresh and organic food, and save carbon emissions at the same time as saving money. When I do go to the shops, these days it's usually by bicycle with a smallish backpack, so I also save on gym fees and still having health that's much better than a few years ago. I think they call it an integrated systems approach.

Margins issue

[sinij]

The issue, as I understand it, is that demand and margins on these products are too low to allow research into making them cleaner. That is, existing designs are good enough and consumers are not willing to pay for redesign.

Regulation can fix this, but it will also make these products more expensive.

Re:Margins issue

[bitingduck]

More likely in play is that people who have invested in on level of technology rarely upgrade without a very compelling reason. The "quieter" reason is not a reason that impacts the person who is using the tool, he's already invested in ear protection. The "quieter" reason is a reason that impacts the person who's not using the tool.

Most people around here who use them have no hearing protection and at most a simple bandanna over their face for "dust" protection. They're typically illegal immigrants or maybe legal but don't have enough education or english skill to get any other job. Both cleaner and quieter would help protect them, but people don't want to do their lawns themselves and don't want to pay much to have their lawns done, and are either deaf or at work when their gardeners come. In LA there are huge amount of people who work at home in the entertainment industry (writers, editors, sound design) and are disrupted by their neighbors' gardeners.

Get a rake

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell is the point of leaf blowers anyway. All you are doing is carrying around a loud heavy pollution generator and annoying people.

Why not use a leaf rake instead?
- Operating noise volume 15 dB
- Weights ~1 lbs
- No toxic exhausts.
- Precision scales intuitively from moving thousands of leaves at the time all the way to moving a single leaf.
- Available in all natural wood & steel and carbon fiber.
- Physical requirements for use are minimal.
- Promotes good posture and reduces stress.
etc.

The "We are better attitude" again!

[bogaboga]

"You find two-stroke engines in poorer countries because they're cheap..."

Maybe they have these blowers there because they "want" them...or because of some other reason. Not because they are poor, but just happen to be poor.

Why does this attitude persist? Is there anything we can learn from these "poor" countries? I know of Americans that have left this country for the so called poor countries - for good. Question is: Why?

Re:The "We are better attitude" again!

[Daemonik]

I know of Americans that have left this country for the so called poor countries - for good. Question is: Why?

Because they can act like rich assholes with their modest American retirement funds and lord over poor citizens of another country like the Colonial overlords they wish they'd been born as?

Leaf blowers should be banned or fine their users

[Anonymous Coward]

Too many people use them to blow their leaves onto public roads and neighbor's properties. I.e. they just pushing their mess elsewhere. $1000 per incident caught on video would be an excellent alternative to these regular litter-bugs.

Leaf Blowers and OCD - Bad Combo

[Irate Engineer]

I had a neighbor that could not stand the sight of a single leaf on his lawn or driveway. He'd patrol his yard three times a day with his leaf blower running until the last leaves fell off his oak trees. All the neighbors hated him because you couldn't complain about the noise, it was legal, etc.. People tried to convince him that a few leaves were not a problem - could not get through to him. We all really wanted to stuff his shirt with leaves, douse him in 2-stroke fuel mix, set him alight and fan the flames with the leaf blower.

He finally fucking died of a heart attack...while blowing leaves. Not a life well spent.

With a rake, he would have been the nice quiet old man next door who liked to exercise by working in his yard, and everybody would have some peace. With a leaf blower, he was the asshole/lunatic that everybody wanted to see dead. There are certain technologies like leaf blowers that seem to throw personality disorders into sharp contrast and are simply obnoxious. Nobody seems to think about noise pollution when designing and marketing (and buying) these things, they just assume everybody won't mind 2-strokes running all damned day. I don't know what the solution is, but it is getting harder and harder to find quiet in the world because of stuff like this.

Re:Leaf Blowers and OCD - Bad Combo

[irrational_design]

I'd recommend moving out of the suburbs. Either into the city (no yard!) or rural (no neighbors!).

Re:Leaf Blowers and OCD - Bad Combo

[bogie]

You should have all gotten together and bought him a top of the line ultra quiet leaf blower. He might have gone from 3 to 5 times a day but at least he would have been quiet.

Re:Leaf Blowers and OCD - Bad Combo

[Anonymous Coward]

Living in the city means living with trains, sirens, horns, trams, elevators, neighbors flushing, kids jumping and thumping, crazy people screaming next door, and cooped up dogs barking. Did that, have the bags under my eyes as a prize. Never again.

Re:Quiet leaf removal option without fuel or batte

[Anonymous Coward]

That's like saying don't use a car, instead take a bicycle to work.

Unnecessary

[technix4beos]

Commercial landscaper here... Companies/people using leaf blowers are wasting everyone's time and money. Period. Blowing around leaves that you can easily rake up is simply an idiotic, colossal waste of energy, and quite frankly a pain in the (r)ear, and as multiple posters pointed out, disturbs your thought process with the loudness. The crew using leaf blowers instead of rakes or brooms is quite ridiculous! Every time I see a crew blowing around leaves instead of taking the time to rake them up, it simply makes me laugh! Fools.

Re:Unnecessary

[Anonymous Coward]

City folks....do not understand power tools...wonder why. More than 1000 square feet an leaf blower become the workhorse tool in the Fall.

A good number of people in my neighborhood have leave collection systems on tractors or trailers that are PTO driven or 5HP or bigger, that in pure decibels is louder but lower in range. The leaf collection also produces much more dust from the leaves than blowing whole leaves into a pile to decompose. No method is best, it is matter of opinion, tree type and scale. Also Depends on if you actually pick them up and bag them, or pile them on your land or the city/disposal service picks them up. I move them to a my compost area that is larger than most urban lots and a leaf blower is best tool ever for the job.

I suspect as a professional you must charge by the hour and/or be in someplace without a fall without Maple, Oak and Elm that drop en Mass all the same 3 weeks.. I have found leave blowing about 6 times quicker than raking and much less damaging to beds of late fall flowers, ornamental and grass at the end of the season. It is not rare that I move 10 cubic meters of leaves to my compost area twice a week before I mow grass or yard vacuum, have an additional 3 cubic meters of mulched leaves in the grass clipping collection.

Then again I live in a area where we all mow in the fall the same day because my neighbors leaves and my leaves are 'community property' with swirling winds, and we call it Thanksgiving because the yard work slows down.
A noise ordinance only allowing leaf blowers, chain saws, weed whackers from 9am-5pm with storm clean up exceptions within 300 feet of a property line seems like a simple local fix.

Waiting for the blowback

[Daemonik]

Of course, there will be the inevitable rejection of such SJW concerns like clean air and low noise.. looking forward to leaf blower nutz and seeing guys with giant smoke stacks on their backs so they can "burn coal" at all the eco-blowers. MURRICA!!

Real nerds

[AchilleTalon]

Real nerds don't give a fuck about leaves, blowers and rake, they are living in the basement below the leaves anyway.

It's not OK to lie, even about Hitler!

[Pseudonymous Powers]

...the fight against noisy leaf blowers is gaining momentum, in part, because residents are framing it as a public health issue. Two-stroke engine leaf blowers mix fuel with oil and don't undergo a complete combustion, emitting a number of toxins...

Don't fucking do that. If you hate leaf blowers because they make a giant fucking noise that makes the quiet enjoyment of your property impossible, then pass a law that bans making giant fucking noises in a residential neighborhood. Don't try to ban leaf blowers by coughing like a sad little passive-aggressive Chihuahua every time you hear one and then climb into your Land Dominator SUV and go vote down the latest mass transit initiative in favor of knocking down a forest and putting up a football stadium instead.

NO and CO are toxins?

[mveloso]

When did NO and CO become toxins?

Re:NO and CO are toxins?

[ControlsGeek]

==>"Two-stroke engine leaf blowers mix fuel with oil and don't undergo a complete combustion, emitting a number of toxins, like carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide, which their operators inevitably inhale."

    Nitrous Oxide ? I get that at the dentist office. I think that they mean Nitric Oxide and Nitrogen Dioxide as components of incomplete combustion.

Re:NO and CO are toxins?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably since the 1970s when Catalytic Converters were mandated in automobiles.

Leave the leaves

[jeti]

The hedgehogs will thank you (and eat the snails).

Re:Quiet leaf removal option without fuel or batte

[Farmer Tim]

Not for long. What most American voters don't realise is that Trump has invested heavily in leaf blower manufacturers, deporting Mexicans is simply a way of boosting sales.

Volkswagen will fix this

[LordHighExecutioner]

They just issued a press release about a leaf blower powered by a diesel engine that is not only very quiet, but also with a negligible emission of pollutants. Oh, wait...

Like a server or jet...

[ClarkMills]

Leaf blowers just blow the Crap elsewhere and the wind will put it back. Don't have one and don't want one.

That aside there are things that help...

* Electric is way better, both from a maintainence and noise perspective

* Like our physical servers (remember them?) and the latest whisper jets... The larger the fan diameter the quieter the noise.

Re: Quiet leaf removal option without fuel or batt

[DarkTempes]

What's this train thing you speak of?

Many (most?) places in the U.S. don't have public transportation and there are a multitude of reasons why people require cars to live in the U.S unless they live somewhere like San Francisco or New York City.

Get off my lawn!

[slasher999]

And don't worry about what I'm using to clean it.

Re:Quiet leaf removal option without fuel or batte

[nukenerd]

There are also no straight or flat roads in this part of the state. My 25 minute drive to work would take hours on a bike.

Your bike cannot get round bends? It needs flat roads? And take hours?? - are you using it the right way up?

When I commuted in London it was faster by bike than by car - and that was in the outer suburbs. In the countryside of Southern England my average bike speed (17mph) was about half that of driving a car if not on motorways. The long-term average speed currently displayed in my car is 36 mph (there are only country roads in my area).

Yeah, OK.

[ewhenn]

Let me know when you have a backpack leaf blower that puts out 750+ CFM, runs for 3 hours straight, and weighs 20 pounds or less - for $500. Until then, no thanks.

Require electric on lawn mowers as well

[WindBourne]

Seriously, my neighbors will run gas mowers in the early am. Loud. Very loud. Worse, they are heavy pollution. So require that all lawn mowers below say 6 or 8 hp to be electric.

Re:Huge problem is not enough power

[Falconhell]

My mains powered blower works great, plenty of power. Why would you go thru the pain in the ass of a petrol engine?

Leaf blowers are stupid anyhow

[YoungManKlaus]

Because you still need to collect the leaves afterwards. Get a leaf sucker that does the work for you.

wtf?

[vel-ex-tech]

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I don't get it. What's the problem leaf blowers pose? You know they have electrical ones, right?

I don't personally use a leaf blower, but I've never been bothered with the noise from two-stroke petrol leaf blowers. It's just a part of fall. Next you're going to tell me that four-stroke petrol little trucks with snow plows are also a noise problem. What about the big diesel snow plows?

However, the noise from HughPickens.com might need some remedying...

Re:wtf?

[redlemming]

I don't personally use a leaf blower, but I've never been bothered with the noise from two-stroke petrol leaf blowers. It's just a part of fall.

Other people are bothered by them. It's not just the noise that bothers people, it's the sociopathic mindset that leads some people to think they can do whatever they want without consequences, because other people aren't real to them. Many human beings do not react well to aggression or perceived aggression from sociopaths: this sort of thing seems to trigger defensive responses that can cause situations to escalate in ugly ways.

In general, noise is a big problem for society, and it is a problem that is fundamentally married to technology, which is why I'm pleased to see this discussion happening on Slashdot. You will likely find issues with respect to noise in any part of the world, first world or third. Our technology lets us easily produce sound levels that can (and do) damage hearing beyond possibility of repair. It's traditionally been a bigger problem in the third world, due to unregulated work conditions and industrial noise, but rates of hearing loss among children in the first world are up 30% today from even the 1980's and 1990's.

The traditional model is that sound amplitude and duration lead to permanent hearing loss (somewhere around 80dB), but the science behind this is sketchy IMHO.

Unfortunately, even this model is not being adhered to. I find that many DJs and club managers will play music that violate the US federal laws with respect to noise in the workplace: they're not just at the limits, they're way beyond the limits. Live bands are even worse - it seems like a lot of musicians are deaf enough they don't understand how loud they are being. A decent sound level meter will measure this: I've measured a live band at over 100db, from outside a building with the doors closed, which implies a maximum exposure of 15 minutes to be compliant with US law. Given that the sounds inside are probably at least 3dB higher, that drops to 7.5 minutes!

The club managers, restaurant managers, and so forth that are allowing this to happen on their watch are being really stupid, since not only are they potentially liable under federal law (a club is a workplace), but also probably liable under state laws regarding assault and battery. One could also make an argument against this in terms of fundamental rights, from a 9th Amendment perspective.

There is hearing protection available, but it isn't clear how well it works, especially over the long term. Worse, having to wear it can be a source of stress in itself. Further, most people don't automatically carry hearing protection with them to places like restaurants.

There is now evidence that lower levels of sound can lead to serious health risks. A 2008 study by Dr Lars Jarup and others in the EU measured blood pressure increases in response to both nighttime airplane noise, and road traffic, and developed a model that suggests long term exposure to much lower sound levels (even under 50 dB, the threshold at which most people wake up) can cause stress, hypertension, increased risk of heart attack or stoke, etc.

It's almost like the human animal evolved in a dangerous environment, and as a result monitors the surroundings even when we're asleep, and can trigger initial stages of fight or flight reactions (which come with the potential for the body doing long term damage to itself), whether we consciously realize it or not!

Even before this study, there was no doubt that many people find unwanted noise in their environment annoying and stressful, which is why many places around the world have noise ordinances in residential areas (55dB is fairly common at night). Evidence has been steadily accumulating since the 1950's that long term stress has physiological consequences, which is a fancy way of saying that exposing people to it isn't very different from punching them in the face.

Noise in the workplace is also a big concern: th

Re:wtf?

[vel-ex-tech]

Thank you for the reply. This is fascinating. It's probably too late to hope for an upmod. I really can't debate any of these points, other than to make the point that I don't think leaf blowers have ever exceeded maybe 70db in my exposure to them. Your points also cover that. There is a general trend towards noise and light pollution I wish we could do something about.

Re:wtf?

[redlemming]

You're welcome.

Another point I forgot to mention is the issue of folks working Swing Shift. There are lots of IT people, grocery store workers, military, police, nurses, doctors, and so forth whose shifts are during the night. These folks tend to be asleep during part of the day (typically 8am-4am, or so), and are likely to be affected by daytime noise.

This poses a tough problem for society, since it wouldn't make sense to completely disallow things like lawn mowers and lots of other equipment that make noise. At the same time, it's not a good thing when a doctor working the emergency room at night isn't at his or her best because of daytime noise.

Better building standards help some of these people: many of the improvements to building codes over the past few decades - intended to get better heating/cooling performance - also help with reducing noise. Of course, those folks with forced air heating/cooling systems (which are pretty common in the USA these days) also have to deal with the noise of that system.

I've occasionally worked night shifts, and have friends who do it permanently. The typical solution to the noise problem is to try to talk with one's neighbors: considerate neighbors will generally be willing to accommodate shift restrictions. It complicates their life a bit, especially when somebody is trying to get work done before it rains.

Free fertilizer

[vandamme]

I used to fill my full-size cargo van with about 80 bags of leaves on the way to work. A couple of weeks, different routes on different trash days, and I had a nice pile of fertilizer for my garden. Can you imagine, people throw that stuff out??!

I'd do it still, but I got rid of the van, and got tired of the broken glass, rocks, and dead cats. Every leaf, pine needle, twig, and tree trunk that falls on our yard still goes in the garden.

Leaf suckers

[MoarSauce123]

I never got the point of a leaf blower. Isn't the intent to remove the leaves from the overmanicured lawn and walkways? In that case a leaf sucker is way better, ideally one that jam packs the leaves into the paper leave bags automatically without having them rip open. Even better advise: just leave the leaves where they are. It's nature, they are good for the soil, and just go with the idea that instead of a lawn you will have grass that is home to nice little flowers that bloom in all kinds of colors, grass that does not need artificial fertilizer, grass that grows on soil that isn't poisoned with endless masses of chemicals to kill off even the last strain of dandelion. Mow once a week the most and live a happy life! As for walkways, plain old table salt every three months dumped onto the cracks is all that is needed. Works as well as the expensive stuff with the spray nozzle and the gazillion warning labels on it.